John Moran (9:50)

Hey, how about that?

Ralph Burns (9:51)

Because we're actually talking about real stuff that's really working.

John Moran (9:54)

It's important to the people. It's important to give the people what we. What they want. I will say give the people what we want, which is the same thing.

Ralph Burns (10:02)

Apparently, is stuff that we have. So that's kind of cool. And then, you know. Right. I have yet to be retargeted or like targeted for any of our YouTube ads though, which I know are chock full of these episodes. So yeah, every time I turn on YouTube I'm like, where am I? Where are we?

John Moran (10:18)

I know we're doing a little bit more proactive than remarketing. We're finding new people, but that's probably.

Ralph Burns (10:25)

It because I already know about tier 11. I already know about this.

John Moran (10:28)

Exactly. We measure by NCAT, so that's good.

Ralph Burns (10:31)

So I'm not an incat. Like you don't want me as a customer. I'm already a customer.

John Moran (10:35)

You are always on the site and you never convert, so you're out of the audience.

Ralph Burns (10:40)

I've given Terra 11 no money whatsoever. That is absolutely not the case.

John Moran (10:45)

Especially the LTV on Ralph is kind of in the negative because we spend more money for you. And it's true.

Ralph Burns (10:51)

It's probably all break even at this point. So we're kind of excited about something that we wanted to do a little sneak peek on today. Are you as excited as I am about this?

John Moran (11:03)

I am so excited because this is extremely important topic since like last year at least. Right. And it's extremely important that people get a way better understanding of the technical structure of this. Because it's one of the legs of the stool. Yeah, that's how important it is. If you don't understand this, if you can't leverage it, or if you're misinterpreting data because of it, this should make it a lot more clear to everybody, no matter where you are in your journey as your. For your professional career.

Ralph Burns (11:31)

Yeah, for sure. And how this ties back to. Give our marketing team credit because they didn't want us to do this, by the way, like, well, we're having a big launch in this. You guys are now blowing it. But we're leaking. This is a leak. The leak to a private audience here, and you know, this is just between us kids. Not like anyone's going to see this, but they probably will. The point is, is that this comes back to a lot of the things that we've discussed on every single one of our lives is that you always go back to the data. You go back to the MPIs, you go back to the marketing performance indicators and CAC specifically being one of the big ones. But how do you get that data so that it's clean and you trust it? How do you get those MPIs and understand them so that you can make not data driven decisions, actually data derived decisions, however you want to put it like you're making better decisions because you have better data. And a lot of people say they have better data, but a lot of them are full of shit.

John Moran (12:25)

Yeah. If I keep hearing, saying like we're going to take your data, throw it through AI, I'm like, wait, hold on.

Ralph Burns (12:30)

Hold on, stop right there. But this is actually something that we're now seeing. Like we are seeing visibility where we had previously had not been able to. And it comes back to the data being clean, the data being pure, the data being accurate and highly effective. And then you and our creative team, for example, can now get together and say, oh well, this is the stuff that's actually working to get to the mpi, get to the goal for the client. So we call it the Tier 11 data suite. And we've been working on this for quite some time. It's a partnership between really sort of three different martech technologies that we've been able to sort of seamlessly integrate together. Our brilliant coo, Ryan Hodges wrote the integration that no one else has. We have exclusivity to it. That's the key to this whole thing. That's the ip, that's the kit.

John Moran (13:21)

It's like almost like a functional patent, basically.

Ralph Burns (13:23)

It really is. So do you want to explain it or do you want me to explain it? I know we have a cute graphic that we are constantly improving upon. You might not see this on our site, but this is sort of one of our. This is. Well, I was about to say this is our first iteration, but the iteration of this is probably like the 17th or 18th iteration of it. I'm excited to show it, to see it and talk about it and explain how it works here because this is the stuff that's now driving our decisions when it comes to how we manage our clients and how they get their results and all the stuff that we talk about here on the show because it's funneled through this whole thing. So without further ado, John Moran introducing Tier 11 data suite for the first time anywhere.

John Moran (14:05)

Hey, so the Data Suite, it's multi step. It's much different than probably what everyone is used to understanding because basic understanding of Data Suite or data and particular as well platform fires a tag on my site and tells me what happened. And that's true. That's kind of like the basis. That's pretty much how Google works a lot of times. That's how even third party attribution companies work. Yeah, is you're using their tag, even like heat mapping and screen recording, it's usually just a tag you put on your site and it fires. And while that's good two years ago, that's been heavily deprecated in the last about 720 days to the point where all of these interrupters, privacy settings, consent mode, cookie blockers, ad blockers have whittled down to what Shopify has even said on their own data. Shopify's data is 55% accurate in the United States, 45% accurate in Asian territories. That's the only two, two things that they published essentially. And I'll give you a correlation and a comparison so that you have a better understanding. What about to present, if you were to log into Shopify's backend and go into the marketing tab and look at their attribution model. That attribution model, even if you set like first Click and last 30 days, that attribution model will show approximately 55% accuracy. If you're in the United States and if you're marketing to people in the United States and it's almost by law, the reason why is there's been essentially a removal of third party cookies. So purchased historical traffic is now illegal basically from all the big providers. And being able to piece together a person's journey through multi steps has failed due to the implementation of the tech. Mostly it's because the implementation of the tech is being the engine that that tech is run on. Is how fast is your website? Yep, that's one of the biggest crux of this whole thing. Someone comes to your website, it fires the tag, they change pages, it fires a tag again. What people don't quite understand is that even Nike themselves takes 4.1 seconds to look load a page. And that's fast. That still failed the core web vital. Yeah. And this is Nike. This is not, you know, anybody small. Like this is the big boy and at four or big girl, big people, whatever it is, that is a 4.1 seconds for largest contentful paint, which means the page takes 4.6 load. This is just the homepage. If you go into a page that's more image heavy, more video heavy, things like PDPs where they have social proof, it gets even longer. A lot of times your average largest contentful pain for like a small business is anywhere between like 8 and 16 seconds. And what this means is that if you're putting a tag on your site for attribution and that tag is deployed towards the bottom of the HTML, that is going to take Whatever seconds it's going to take for that thing to fire. And if it does not fire, it's going to lose the person and it's going to leave it up to fingerprinting, even within one visit. What this means, if they get to your site and they're on page one and the tag fires, it's like, good. We see Ralph here. Ralph goes to page two and then it goes to page three. But it didn't. He wasn't on page two for four seconds. It's ah, it's Ralph's gone. Now we got this new person here, Direct.

Ralph Burns (17:22)

Let's.

John Moran (17:23)

Everyone, let's welcome Direct. Direct has nothing to do with Ralph.

Ralph Burns (17:25)

Thank you, Direct.

John Moran (17:26)

It's Ralph. Yeah, Ralph's gone and Direct's here. And that happens all the time.

Ralph Burns (17:32)

And nobody knows who Direct is?

John Moran (17:34)

No, and no one knows who Direct. And now you log into GA4 and half the people are correct. You log into sometimes Norpeam, Trip Whale. It's like unattributed direct. Like, don't worry, throw on our AI. Yeah, unknown. Don't worry, throw on our AI and we'll tell you what we think it is. That's a very expensive decision. And then even meta is like, hey, you know what? We're going to use modeled conversions. We don't really know. We don't know. But here's what we think happened. Exactly. And here's what we think happened. And not only that, here's what I think happened. Let's throw that into a multimedia omnichannel mix. So now you got a whole bunch of unattributable sources coming from different points in their journey, showing up randomly inside the channels as brand new to the site. Give that seven days and a hundred thousand users. And at the end, it's kind of all blended together and half of it's unattributed. They're like, well, shit, I don't know what to do Now I have. Half my data is accurate. Imagine your kid coming home with a report card and it says all Cs. Some are A pluses, some are failed. That's what we're doing here. Also, all Cs. It's like, well, you could be a student all the time or you could be. You could be going to summer school. I don't know.

Ralph Burns (18:41)

Did you flunk history or math? I don't know.

John Moran (18:44)

And that's your business, right? But all Cs, it's exactly what we're doing. It's like our businesses, man, I hope it's good like that's it. So I hope we're the A plus student and I hope I'm not going to summer school, which is a, you know, an FBA loan or an SBA loan to keep myself afloat.

Ralph Burns (18:58)

Yep.

John Moran (18:59)

So that's why tier 11 we've introduced and built and have collectively started to use and see good success, something called the Data Suite. I have to head and share screen again. Sorry. I know that need to plug that in.

Ralph Burns (19:11)

They don't paint me to be a producer on this show, by the way. Just saying.

John Moran (19:14)

I didn't cue you up.

Ralph Burns (19:17)

I know we're talking about it, but here we are giving our marketing team a heart attack in so doing. But that's okay.

John Moran (19:25)

By the way. This is not rehearsed. I'm just winging this here. I understand it real well. But I have not presented this. It's true.

Ralph Burns (19:30)

So basically the problem is the unknowns, the direct, the unattributed. You have no idea what these people have done.

John Moran (19:37)

And half of it is your fault. Because your site's not fast enough.

Ralph Burns (19:40)

Because your site isn't fast enough. But also there's pop up blockers, there's ATT prompts, there's all these other things that sit on the browser consent mode, consent modes like all of that, that's blocking all of that from happening. And this is going to get worse and worse and worse and we're going to have to rely on the platforms to model or the third party attribution systems to model the data to a certain degree or just not show it at all. Because they don't know what the hell it is. They don't know who Ralph was. Ralph now becomes direct. John becomes unknown.

John Moran (20:12)

You return customers now direct new because they don't know where they were.

Ralph Burns (20:15)

They don't know who they were.

John Moran (20:16)

Your old customers, your old visitors sometimes are half new now.

Ralph Burns (20:19)

So it negates the ncac. Like you don't know who that new customer is. You don't know.

John Moran (20:23)

And your ECPNV is 50% off.

Ralph Burns (20:24)

Yeah. Now that's effective cost per new visitor. That is one of our 15 MPIs. Very important. It's a cost that you use in order to figure out whether or not you're getting. Are you getting new people to your site? Because that's why people hire us, to get them new customers at an affordable price. Makes sense for their finances. Right. It's usually how growth happens.

John Moran (20:46)

And can you afford to scale that network? This is going to seem like a big sales pitch. Is not. It's Half of this is understanding how to it's understanding the source of data.

Ralph Burns (20:57)

This is also the reality that we live. And this is not going to get any better unless you have a solution for it.

John Moran (21:03)

Right. So this is how things should run. So here's your user. This is Ralph. Ralph, I'm now a female is a very exactly with a nice, nice laptop sitting crisscross applesauce because Indian style is.

Ralph Burns (21:15)

Definitely never sat like that in my entire life.

John Moran (21:20)

It's funny, I'm actually sitting like that now. That's my niece. That was my back. I'm old. Anywho. So user journey starts with visits various platforms. So user joins one of the apps. They're logging into Instagram and they say you know what, I'm gonna hop on Instagram and I'm gonna look around and I'm gonna click on an ad. And now that ad, that's where this portion comes in that usually everything else breaks is when the person clicks on an ad and they go to the website. Typically they go right to the essentially origin server. Like they're going right to the website and this is where this thing breaks here. That simple. Just going from an ad click to the actual server itself of where your website resides is where things break. Your privacy tools, cookie blockers, browser based blockers have no effect on day suite. All this stuff is passed back through which we'll go through in a moment. But essentially it is all being failed at that point in time. And that's why even Shopify can't give you accurate data as to what Shopify season. They're publicly traded massive entity. They are still off.

Ralph Burns (22:21)

A lot of people don't really understand exactly how the Internet works. Your website is housed on a server that is called the origin server. So when you click on an ad in this case or you go to a website, that origin server calls up that HTTP and then delivers it into your browser. That's how the Internet works. So was that accurate?

John Moran (22:44)

Basically, yeah. Again it's traffic for a reason. You're literally going to someone else's server. It's like going to their store. Now if you're. If your front door opens in four and a half seconds you're like yeah, I want to leave this door. Like that's kind of the thing, right?

Ralph Burns (22:58)

What if you went to Costco and it took you four seconds for the door to open? Would you actually walk in like one, two.

John Moran (23:05)

That's a long four seconds. Yeah. Or the greeter is four second delayed. Like you walk in four seconds later like, do you have your id? Like, yeah. Now directs here. We don't even know if this person's a customer. Anywho, that's actually a really good analogy. I'm gonna use that later. But here's the edge. So this is the edge. Now what the edge does is essentially saying before you get inside of Costco, before you go through and bypass the greeters on a 15 second delay. We tagged you in the parking lot. The greeter has got binoculars on the roof of Costco. Says, Ralph's here. Ralph's back. I know where Ralph came from. Exactly.

Ralph Burns (23:40)

See him?

John Moran (23:41)

We know where Ralph is. So it tags you before partner French. But your site bucks it up. That's big.

Ralph Burns (23:46)

Yep, it's big because of all those blockers that are on the site.

John Moran (23:50)

Exactly. Blockers on the site. Blockers from the client for the client of the user. The cookie blocker, the app locker, they have all that stuff. Basically we get to like att prompts, right?

Ralph Burns (24:00)

IOS 14. Exactly.

John Moran (24:01)

We get to tag them before that all becomes a thing. And Allison says, how does server side tracking play into your data suite? We dump a lot of money a month into this. I won't give the name out there, I don't want to ever slander anybody, but they use another company that does data suite type of actions and says, would this be something that would eliminate that with your data suite? The answer is yes. This is the difference lfr. Other companies like them or you have other companies. Edge Mesh is another company that does this. There's another one who is the other person that does this? There's lvar, Edge Mesh, obviously Nordbeam, Trip Whale. Then you have. Who is the other people that. There's one other one that's escaping my mind. But all of them have different ways of deploying tags. Right? And Edge Mesh is one company that uses obviously an edge tag feature. They do things a little bit differently for different reasons. Theirs is going to be more for site speed purposes, not attribution tracking. The data suite uses edge. That is the edge tag that we have that is similar other companies, those things like lvr, Norpeam, those type use a website coded that's fired. It's fired from the server side, but it's prompted by the website. It's not necessarily an edge server that's going to a data warehouse that is separate. So the way that the tag deploys is extremely important because it's like you have a amazing tag that's your engine of your Ferrari, but the Ferrari doesn't have wheels like you can have amazing tagging capabilities, but it's can't go anywhere, it's not fast enough to actually deploy. And so that's kind of the analogy there is the way that things are deployed matters from that visit for the first time, for the next years really if it fails at the beginning, it will never propagate later correctly at the end. Right? So the edge tag, this is that where it's like okay, someone's on their way to the store, tag them and then that goes into the data warehouse. The data warehouse then feeds information into the interface, which is wicked. And that's where you see the data that looks like this. So the edge tag that's coming from the data warehouse. When a person comes to the site and says okay, this is the new visit percentage, we know that Google Ads is running performance max, which is why only 5.5% of these people are new. And it costs you $33 every single time there's a new visit. This is important as shit because if you look at Google Ads it's like $2 clicks and these things are getting 400 row ads. No, that's not true. This is the health of your company. Yeah, I'm only, we're only spending 30 grand out of 225,000, so about 10ish percent because we know that this is never going to scale. And I would waste a hundred thousand dollars in six months of my time because I didn't know that and I didn't know this. And that is coming from the data warehouse because the edge tag is so accurate. It's like we tracked 95% of these people before.

Ralph Burns (26:45)

Let me just explain this part of it. So the edge people are like well where did you find the edge? Well, the edge has always existed. There's something called a CDN server. Remember when people, people say, well, content delivery network. Content delivery network, a CDN server. So for those of you who are not techie, like when somebody says clear your cache, basically it is a server that is located closer to where you are, proximity wise. There's 7,000 of these things all over the world, okay? And CDNs have been around forever. This company that we use, this Martech company, figured out a way to use that pre existing technology in a very affordable way. But to help marketers with this very issue. This technology has existed for years, 20 years plus. And they're backed by the largest CDN on the planet, which is the most secure on the planet, HIPAA compliant, all these other sorts of things. We're not going to get into all the details here. Our marketing department is going to be able to explain that at some point in time. The point is, it's like this tech has existed for years and years. This is just being deployed in a different way to give marketers a greater visibility, lift the veil on all those unattributed, all those unknowns, all those directs. She didn't know what the hell you were doing with those because they were primarily model data. Now, it doesn't get rid of all of them. Not all of them. You still have a small percentage of it because nothing is perfect. But the point is, is the visibility is pretty darn good.

John Moran (28:17)

It is almost perfect.

Ralph Burns (28:19)

I don't want to oversell, actually.

John Moran (28:22)

Oh, I'm going to oversell the shit out of this because this is my company here. And I'm going to go, I'm going to try to see. Can I. No, this is Traveloo.

Ralph Burns (28:31)

Oh, Traveloo.

John Moran (28:33)

Yeah. Anywho. So I'm going to do this. I'm going to go back to this here in a moment. But yes, it's not perfect, but I actually, you know what? Now just. I'll spoil it. So here's the full funnel model. This is using full funnel attribution. It says, hey, organic had 141,000 of your revenue out of 789,000. Now this is my personal brand. I have never run anything but little bit of Facebook remarketing, which is why this thing is 0.5% new visits, man, that's really accurate. But the revenue says, Hey, 141,000 revenue from organic. And then we said, wait a minute, that can't be possible. We don't have organic traffic. We're reselling of luggage like Samsonite. No one knows who travel is. It's never come from anywhere else. But the return traffic is like, it can't be right. So they say, okay, well what if I do click date first click only. So now using the same filter since 10, 19, 20, 23 says, all right, remember like all of your organic. Yeah, that wasn't actually, you know, 150,000. It's 4,000. Took 150, 000 of organic traffic and turned it into 4,000 because it didn't start there from first click. And this is why I kill brand campaigns for people all the time. Like last week's case study where I was like, hey, we took this one campaign and we just wiped it out. That was spending two thirds of the cost and 2/3 of the revenue. We just wiped it out, saved 2/3 of our ad spend that week. 10 G's in one week. No, 15 G's in a week. Didn't lose a dime. That's because of this. We're good marketers because we understand this is how we believe things are working. And then this proves it. So 150 grand down to 4,000. It's not 100%, but 98 is pretty good. 98 is pretty good.

Ralph Burns (30:05)

The other example that we have, it's like it eliminated if you compare side by side. And we'll leave this for our marketing team to show this, but we compare GA4 versus wicked reports like Wicked Reports is the interface. We tried to build our own interface, John. I spent $150,000. Wasted money. And Angela will always laugh at that. Back when we were just printing money and we were doing crappy work. Actually this is years and years ago. But Wicked Reports is. A lot of people have tried Wicked Reports before and they didn't like it because it didn't really have any of the stuff that you just showed. It's completely transformed. From my perspective. Like this is. We obviously have a stake in that company. So I have a slanted viewpoint for sure. However, for the mid sized small market individual, forget enterprise. North Beam can take the enterprise. They're a good company too. I'm not going to say anything bad about those guys.

John Moran (31:01)

Of course, I'm an investor there too. It's great. It's not our audience and not the people that are on stage, not our audience.

Ralph Burns (31:06)

But that team does really good work. However, this is the stuff that's relevant to you. Wicked Reports has completely transformed. And now with this, which only you get through datasuite by the way, because they don't use the edge tag, they don't use the edge. They gather their data in some other way which we'll get into at a later date. But the point is it's like this data that's coming in because it's being caught in the data warehouse. It's now first party data.

John Moran (31:32)

Yep. And I know we have about five minutes left before we want to get to some some questions and I have a little bit of update on some strategy stuff. But I do want to just at least kind of go through the rest of this. If it's cool that when it goes into Data Warehouse, this is where everything shoots back out of this. This is the central hub for everything. This feeds the data that you're going to look at in your reports. This also passes it back to the ad platform so that the app platform has Additional data. Now I'm. You all know I'm a big proponent of in app measurements bullshit, right? I still am, but this feeds more of that. So it's not that 50 is now 70 and it's a hunt and it's a perfect 50 is actually probably 100 in reality. But I have my in app Data go from 50 to 75. I'm 50% closer than I was the actual truth. Excellent. It means faster, faster optimizations. It means that my slanted T row as a TCPA goals that are using half data targets because it is only half accurate can be a little more accurate. Now all of the information that I need feeder strategy is going to be twice as fast because it knows where those people are coming from. So it knows, okay, that person actually came from that campaign because Data Warehouse said this is a return user, let's go after them. So all of this is going back a couple of years when everyone really liked Meta and Google Ads, conversion tracking before it all broke down. This kind of brings it back. So it's like if you were one of those people that got kicked in the proverbial gonads about the iOS, this alleviates that.

Ralph Burns (32:53)

All of us were. And 2021 was a horrible. Well actually the end of 2021 was a horrible year. We lost like half our customers. Like it was a bloodbath.

John Moran (33:02)

Yeah, I mean all Meta really did was remove this stuff here. Yeah, basically it's what they did. They had an interface with a good amount of data. They've removed that now it's like we've rebuilt Meta. Then also this thing can be sent to the CRM tool. So HubSpot, if you have Shopify, all that information that is being sent to the platforms not only for ads, but the platforms for measurement, lead flow, lead quality, source of leads, reporting that comes to your C suite, quarterly results. If you're a publicly traded company, what you're actually going to produce is numerous returning revenues. You don't lie to your investors. All of that can be sent right to you for a low, low cost of high risk. So all that data though, makes your data much more accurate. So this centralized hub goes back to the platform to make it more accurate, goes back to the interface to tell you what the truth is. It goes back to the E commerce platform. So your sales team could be better, better, you know, equipped to manage newer opportunities more effectively. All of this stuff is, is now much more streamlined and accurate and easier to make very good data driven decisions off of. And I will say data driven because this is the data warehouse. And it's the most overused, cliche thing that you can possibly say of data driven. But this is using a higher amount of more accurate data for you to become a good marketer again.

Ralph Burns (34:19)

Yeah. It restores your ability to actually be data driven. Everyone says they're data driven, so we say data derived. But we're still working on that from a marketing standpoint. But the point is, data driven usually has an element of. I just don't know. I don't care how great you are. Like, there's always going to be that. That's the reality. This largely solves that almost 100%. That's a big deal. Yeah.

John Moran (34:44)

I mean, I challenge anybody to go into GA4 right now and try to get the direct channel, be less than 5% of your overall visits. Use anybody you can. I don't care. Exactly. That's the bad part though is that's where it's like I was pushing all of the MPI so much and even killing conversion tracking because I'm like, it's all useless. Yeah, it is. It's all useless. This is now. Okay. Like, I have twice the amount of more accurate data. I'm like, even if you don't pipe it back into the platforms, I'm still not looking at the platforms for metrics. I'm looking at. I'm using the marketing platforms as marketing platforms. Don't use it for measurement platforms. No. That's all I would say. But this will tell you if what you're doing is right or wrong. It's great.

Ralph Burns (35:24)

Every platform, every tool has its place. Right. Like we say, inappro sucks. It does. However, we still do use it as.

John Moran (35:31)

I need a benchmark.

Ralph Burns (35:32)

Absolutely.

John Moran (35:33)

I need it for. I need it for my bidding strategy models. 100%.

Ralph Burns (35:36)

I wouldn't trust any of the NCAC data. I wouldn't trust any of that.

John Moran (35:42)

I try to. My customers is like, I found them again. I'm like, well, I found the same.

Ralph Burns (35:46)

Ones over and over again. Great. Look at me. When in fact, they're like, well, why do I have the same amount of revenue? And it looks like you've got 400% ROAS this week. Like that still, like at the crux of everything that we're trying to achieve.

John Moran (35:59)

Here, you want to see something. Want to see something scary and want to see something like, absolutely horrific, but funny as hell.

Ralph Burns (36:05)

I would love to watch this.

John Moran (36:07)

This is the part where everyone should be like, aha. Now this makes sense as well. I'm getting new versus Returning big reveal. Here it is, the big reveal. As soon as Google loads. Here we go. Ready and action. This is. Watch how stupid Google is with matching. Said, hey, Google, this is a performance max campaign for new customer acquisition only. And new customer acquisition, we have this thing set for at least, like, since mid October, only bid for new customers. It's like, you got it. We uploaded our customer list, everything, yada, yada, yada, and we're like, awesome. And I said, all right, let's spend $332 after the new setting. What happened? Cool. It's still there. Like, it's still. We have $6,600 in existing customers and this thing. Actually, we already launched a standard shopping campaign, which is why these are reducing. But they. We said, hey, only bid for new customers. Says, great. Out of 518 that are known, 125 of them are returning customers. We got them back for you. What the hell? Like, new customer only. It's like, don't worry, we got the same exact amount we did two weeks ago. And that is because it doesn't know it can't match. It has to go and do enhanced conversions later on to find out. Guess what? I still fucked you over. That is why when people are like, well, John, why don't you use new customer acquisition setting? Try it. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. It does whatever it wants anyway. It doesn't matter because the data in this account isn't using data suite. So right now it just says, I'm going to market whoever I want to, and then I'm going to find out later that there's a whoopsie daisy. But Roas is great. So you're happy?

Ralph Burns (37:41)

Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, they have to make themselves look good at some point. I mean, like, that, you know.

John Moran (37:48)

You know what's funny is if they didn't, I paid more.

Ralph Burns (37:50)

It's true. It's counterintuitive, isn't it?

John Moran (37:53)

Right?

Ralph Burns (37:54)

Unbelievable. All right, well, there's our small reveal for today of the things we've been working on. We talked about this back in the desert in November, and you were like, are you serious? Do you actually really have that? I'm like, yeah, I think we do. Ryan's like, oh, yeah, it's going to be great. And then we all of a sudden saw it. You and I were like, holy. We actually really do have it.

John Moran (38:16)

Seen anything that can reattribute organic traffic to 95%? And that's because of what I learned there. I know, right? Because of what we learned there, that's the reason why I did this. That's the knowing.

Ralph Burns (38:29)

Franchescas.

John Moran (38:30)

Yeah. This is the same thing with Francesca's. This is the same thing that we said, okay, we can actually take all of our branded traffic that we spent 36,000 out of 62,000 on. And I'm like, let's just pause it, just kill it. We don't need it. Just save us 35 grand there. And the broad campaign here that spent, you know, $6,000 more, which is 500% more because they started to scale it up, all of a sudden, just lands with a quarter million in two weeks. And that's because we know that all of these users here with this data, it's not needed. It's because these are all people that we know. When you count the people that are coming organically, they're googling the brand name, why they didn't start there. So don't overspend on those people, because you will still get it anyway. This being able to see this saved us $33,584 in 14 days. If that's not a use case for knowing exactly where people are coming from, I don't know what is. But that is myrrh and ecpnb, everything right there just is. It allows us to utilize this.

Ralph Burns (39:29)

All the MPIs, all those beautiful MPIs.

John Moran (39:32)

All the things which, by the way.

Ralph Burns (39:34)

If you don't have the spirit, the download yet, go to chaireleven.com MPI for crying out loud, download the damn thing. Give us your name and email. That's all you need.

John Moran (39:45)

It should be like gospel now. And I expect John Moran's dog and my disciples to all read the 15 commandments that are on the MPI.

Ralph Burns (39:54)

We're actually building an entire page on this with your videos. You did videos on each individual one. We're like, I slam this home so.

John Moran (40:02)

Each one of those bastards.

Ralph Burns (40:03)

That's right. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. You looked good, by the way. All those videos. Excellent. Anything you want to show updates for things that we've talked about in previous shows or that was just kind of it, or you want to go right to questions?

John Moran (40:15)

You know what I'm dissecting. I'm doing campaign autopsy right now for this week. Next week we have two feeder strategies where PMAX beat Standard Shopping and the other feeder strategy where Standard Shopping beat pmax and two separate reasons why and which one would apply to you. So I'm going to have more to explain on that. Where it's like, which One should I do at what levels and be like, well, if you're this type of client, do that. If you're that type of customer or client, do that or I'm just going to call you a client. But if you're this type of business person, advertiser, whatever it is. But the ways to which to implement feeder strategy, both of them had better performance combined but the targets and the ad spend and which one to implement had so many other external factors that I'm building out the if you are aligning more this way, do that. If you're aligning more that way, do that. But both of them are crushing it. It just depends upon which one earned it and those are extra weight factors. So teaser for next week that feeder strategy for E commerce, at least for performance max and standard shopping will have horrible performance or great performance. If you follow or if you don't follow these rules, you'll be 50 50. So this will give you clear insights as to. Okay, I should implement it this way for this brand.

Ralph Burns (41:20)

Very cool. Can't wait to see that.

John Moran (41:21)

Yeah.

Ralph Burns (41:22)

Before we get into questions, I have a question for you. So this came up on a discovery call this week. They're like, yeah, I don't need any of your Google help and using performance max and it's working great for me. I want to talk to you guys about meta.

John Moran (41:33)

Sure it is.

Ralph Burns (41:34)

What would be your answer to that?

John Moran (41:36)

How do you know it works great?

Ralph Burns (41:38)

It looks great.

John Moran (41:39)

Usually it looks good. It looks good.

Ralph Burns (41:42)

Is it actually helping? Right?

John Moran (41:45)

Yeah, that's like, well, how many of.

Ralph Burns (41:47)

Those that 900% ROAS on your PMAX is actually new customers or just Google recycling old ones?

John Moran (41:55)

It's like how many new and returning users are there? When they say don't know, I say, well, how many new and returning customers are there? And then they say, I don't know.

Ralph Burns (42:01)

So you install data suite. You can now see that.

John Moran (42:05)

Yeah. And if everything is off of roas, why don't you just run nothing but brand?

Ralph Burns (42:09)

Why not?

John Moran (42:10)

Sure, why not get 10,000 roas. Great. Take it to the moon. Great buy by a bottom line. But that's always the questions. That's usually if I say if that is what you're basing off of, then why not just run brand? Well, because, you know, I need to do some proactive marketing. I agree. How much of that is that?

Ralph Burns (42:27)

Like if your competitors are bidding on your name, keyword, brand, all that. Yeah, absolutely. You need to have that 100%. You should have it anyway no matter what.

John Moran (42:36)

It should Always be included, of course. But a lot of times performance max is 80% of your ad spend to those people. Yeah, and that's what it is is if to say the roas is good, then your response is usually, then why not just run brand and also say. Well, the response to that as well. I know I need to do some cold traffic proactive marketing and I know I want to use blah, blah, blah. Excellent. Can you tell me what yours is? No. Well, is it 1% or 99? Because that is the. I have a C. Could be an A plus, could be an F. Don't know.

Ralph Burns (43:06)

I don't know which class you actually got the A or the F in. Still I'm concerned I would be the A and history and the F in math. But anyway, I got a C average. Hey, it doesn't matter. That's all my parents really care about. Right?

John Moran (43:21)

Exactly. If I got a C, I was golden. As long as I didn't get like too many D's or an F. Yeah, I couldn't fail. That was the other thing. But you actually can hop into report editor and find out how well your cold traffic campaign is doing. That's what we did for the mushroom people that we then launched. Standard Shopping got went from a half a percent conversion rate to a 12% conversion rate in a week.

Ralph Burns (43:43)

That's pretty tremendous. You know, it's funny though, here we are, see students running these businesses and.

John Moran (43:51)

But I have more data. So I get to bring the textbook to my test.

Ralph Burns (43:56)

You know the answers to the test. That's the key.

John Moran (43:58)

I got the answers written in the inside of my water bottle like I did in high school. Like I think we should. I think, I think we should reduce Aspen over there. Wow, John, you're a genius.

Ralph Burns (44:08)

Oh my God, so true.

John Moran (44:10)

I'm not smart at everybody. I just have more data.

Ralph Burns (44:12)

Let's just hope our kids don't watch this tier 11 live, okay? Because as far as they know, I have an E average and all.

John Moran (44:17)

You know what's funny is I tell my kids, get good grades. You don't have to learn it, you don't have to like it. Just pass.

Ralph Burns (44:21)

Just get good grades.

John Moran (44:22)

Just get good grades.

Ralph Burns (44:23)

Should we go into questions?

John Moran (44:25)

Let's do it.

Ralph Burns (44:26)

All right. Jose V is here. Hey, Jose V. A long time listener watcher. At what budget level do you usually recommend for E commerce businesses to start non brand search campaigns?

John Moran (44:38)

Yes. So it always again, get those MPIs top of mind, always 100%. That's first thing to start, go to the MPI download, look at things like NK CPNB. Learn those intimately that will then inform you of your budget. Because right now when you're looking at what budget level do you usually start with non brand search campaigns for ecommerce number one, I usually don't. I usually start just standard shopping first. Or if you have no omnichannel traffic, performance max, it could work great because you don't have an existing brand or existing customers or existing traffic to go after to mess everything up. Performance max can work great. Non brand search hard. It's always more expensive than e commerce, than shopping, usually by about 40% more. Your CPC is from search to shopping. You're 40% more search CPC than shopping. But here's the difference. And Jose, I think this is something that I always ask people to take off their data hat take off their Google Ads hat put their marketer hat back on and watch. Here's something great. Jose, I'm going to assume you sell Crocs. Okay, I know you don't, but I'm going to assume you sell Crocs. All right, now here's what I am going to tell you of reason why I don't start with search. A lot of times I won't even really run search for the first year for e commerce. Here's the reason why. If you are selling Crocs and let's just imagine you're not the Crocs company. This is your ad here for your website. There you sell Crocs and these are the ads that you're also having that you're also running that are selling Crocs. I have to go and click on this ad and you pay Google 40% more for me to be able just to find out what they look like. Are they on sale? Who is it buy? Do you have any sort of discounts? Do people like it? What's your name and is it, what's the price? I can find all of that out before you have to pay Google. But if I click over here, you have to then pay Google for me to know what does your product look like and how much does it cost? Yeah, so that's why I like shopping ads. Absolutely. First before search ads. And yes, you could do extensions, you could do a sale extension, you could do a price extension, you could do an image extension for sure. But I can't do that nine times in one search. Crocs can. Here, here, here, here, here, here. See what I mean? So always run shopping because if you're just starting off as a new company, start from your bottom up. Go to the people who are looking for your product first that are not googling your name and then say am I getting a good click through rate on that picture, that title, that price and that you know, social proof and my brand name and everything. And if so, if you get a good click through rate and you start to get good sales, max that thing out before you then jump into search two because you want to go to all the people that know they want to buy the red one for that's quite a good price right now. And then you move up to say I know the people I want to go sell Crocs to. That's search shopping versus search is I want the blue Crocs on sale Shopping is I think I want Crocs or sorry searches I think I want Crocs that's upper funnel. Cool. Now for a budget I would actually just bake into keeping a top line mirror at a small spend. Assuming you already have shopping up and running and everything's good. So don't pay 40% more to test your business, pay very little to test your business and then adding in search is just easy. I don't know. Start off I'm already spending a thousand bucks a day so let's just add 100. See how it works. It becomes much less important.

Ralph Burns (47:54)

Makes sense. Let's get to. Well, it's good that John Moran's dog and John Moran's disciple are both here. Thank you very much for showing up. Boys. I assume they're boys. Powell, welcome. Let's see, John Maran's dog actually has a question. How do you optimize Google Ads for a DTC apparent client when the best selling category has a 50% return rate compared to a 10% for other categories?

John Moran (48:21)

Yes. And I think we had this question last week and I didn't really I don't know if we got to it was return rate for people return the product or what that product sells. People return 50% of the time to buy other things. I don't know if we got to that. So please add it in the chat as soon as you can and I'm going to come right back to it. We still have 15 more minutes to add it in and we'll jump as soon as I see it or someone else sees it. We'll jump right back into that one.

Ralph Burns (48:43)

Okay. I am being asked to say check out our poll in the comments about our data suite and be sure to respond.

John Moran (48:50)

I we have handlers to make sure that we follow rules. Please everyone do it.

Ralph Burns (48:56)

We have laws here, John.

John Moran (49:00)

I don't want to get whipped again.

Ralph Burns (49:01)

Tier 11 laws.

John Moran (49:02)

Please do it.

Ralph Burns (49:03)

Tier 11 live laws. How about that? In addition to the other laws. Barely keep those.

John Moran (49:07)

Law of participation.

Ralph Burns (49:09)

Everyone must participation. The law of Mpis. Thou shall use thine Mpis.

John Moran (49:14)

I think one of our comments disciples.

Ralph Burns (49:16)

John Moran's disciple actually said that. Hallelujah. He says, thank God that people are. People are listening. All right, how does server side tracking play into your data suite? Did you answer this one before?

John Moran (49:28)

Yeah, we answer this one lie. But yes, this could eliminate the need for that company. Yep, yep, yep.

Ralph Burns (49:33)

We tested them too. They looked good, but didn't cut it. John Moran's dog. All right. He's not just a pretty face there. When do you recommend combining feeder strategy with pmax for E Commerce clients and when should it be avoided?

John Moran (49:45)

That's going to be a whole episode next week, but I'll give you a couple quick tips.

Ralph Burns (49:49)

Like, he knew what you were. What you were going to be presenting next week.

John Moran (49:52)

I know, right? If you're already running pmax, add Standard Shopping, obviously. And if you are running Standard Shopping, add pmax. Now, the difference is if you're running Standard Shopping and you're adding in PMAX, standard shopping should remain 80% of the ad spend. On the flip side, if you're already running PMAX and you're running and you want to add Standard Shopping, Standard Shopping should actually be 50% of the ad spend. The only variable that this differs on is if you have a high amount of meta traffic. You're going to need to increase your Standard shopping faster than your performance max to see if you can see a global scale. And that's what we'll be covering next week.

Ralph Burns (50:31)

All right, so stay tuned for that.

John Moran (50:33)

Cool.

Ralph Burns (50:33)

Make sure you do check out the poll in the comments, however, and make sure you respond on datasuite. It's the first time we've revealed this to the world, so I feel like this group here, they're the insiders. They really are. They're not just decided you're our test.

John Moran (50:49)

Audience because you're more advanced. So I'm like, okay, if they don't get it, if you guys don't get.

Ralph Burns (50:54)

It, then we're really screwed. Yeah.

John Moran (50:56)

All right. I definitely explained something wrong and this must be ever clear or something.

Ralph Burns (51:00)

It's not water, that's just straight vodka right there.

John Moran (51:03)

It's gonna get really, really bad.

Ralph Burns (51:06)

John Moran drunk next Friday. All right, Tyler C. Says, would you run the max click feeder strategy for brand what's your logic there?

John Moran (51:15)

Actually, no. I spend the least amount of money on brand as I possibly can. Brand is always the last step. Here it is. I have a really, really great mental exercise for everyone to go through and you need to be completely honest with yourself, otherwise it doesn't work. Because cognitive dissidence is what we have to overcome here, which is exactly why we spend so much money on brand. So it's a hard thing to ask yourself to do this, but check this out and be really honest with yourself. From this one use case. Here we go. You see an ad on meta and it's for the best new granola bar you've ever had in your life. It's upside down and you're like, that looks cool. The best new grilla bar you ever had in your life and it's upside down. So it's called Valley Nature, not Nature Valley. It's a different brand.

Ralph Burns (51:54)

Never heard of it.

John Moran (51:55)

So yeah, I know, right? It's new. And so you click on it, go to the website, you're like, man, this looks really, really good. And then you leave and you see a YouTube remarketing and maybe you don't click on it and then you say, you know what, I see another meta ad and I was like, okay, that's pretty cool. They have a really cool flavor that I like. And I'm gonna go, I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to go buy it. The point where you said I'm going to go buy it. That is the decision to then Google search the brand. You do not end up just randomly Google search the brand and say, well shit, I want to buy it now. No, the decision as to which what you want to buy happens before the branded search. So how much money do you have to spend in order to make sure you capture a person post decision? And that's why branded roas doesn't really mean that that campaign did anything. That is the result of how many people made the decision before taking that action. And before you spend the money, you're going to get the money anyway. High chance. So don't spend all of your asthma there. That is. You're, you're basically saying these people already bought, sold and are enjoying the product. They just haven't paid me money yet. You know, that's how much money you want to put into that last step. So just understand that the buying decision people make happen before they Google the brand. So spend as little as you can there. That will keep your NCAC totals low.

Ralph Burns (53:13)

Okay? I beg to differ on one part of that. Yeah, you are using an impulse buy as your example. However, if it is a larger buy, the inverse relationship or the direct relationship, really, it's not inverse. The direct relationship to research and gathering information based upon the size of the investment. You just bought a car. I've been actually going to the Jeep website. I've been Googling Jeep, going there, checking out that car. I am not ready to buy it yet. I am still in information gathering mode. So there is some value to branded search to a certain degree for people that are in the consideration phase, which is what I'm in right now. So how would you respond to that?

John Moran (53:57)

Well, you're not close to your buying decision yet because you were not gonna. Are you gonna buy it off of jeep.com?

Ralph Burns (54:02)

I'M probably going to go to the dealership. Maybe this is a bad example, but it's just one that just came to my head.

John Moran (54:08)

What are you going to Google Next?

Ralph Burns (54:11)

Dealers near me. Jeep.

John Moran (54:12)

Okay, and what are you going to do when you find a dealership that has some Jeeps? You're probably going to click on that ad, right? And then you're going to be on the. On Bob's jeep.com and you're going to say, holy shit, they got the blue one, the X package, everything that I want. I'm going to take 24 hours and just think about it and I'm going to talk to my spouse. And what are you and your spouse going to do? Make a decision. Right.

Ralph Burns (54:34)

Could be yes, could be no.

John Moran (54:36)

Well, let's say you make your decision to say, you know what, let's go check it out. What's the next thing you do? I go to the Google Bob's Jeep.

Ralph Burns (54:44)

Google Bob's Jeep again and find out directions to it.

John Moran (54:47)

Right, Exactly. You made your decision and you made your decision to move forward with it and then you Google the brand. So this isn't about jeep.com, this is Bob's Jeep. But also now, you heard it from word of mouth, you're more organic traffic than anything else. But you weren't influenced by ads. But yes, but still, when you Google search a brand name where you're going to go and pay that person money, typically you make your decision before you Google. You do not Google Bob's Jeep for some reason. Say, I don't want a Jeep yet. I don't even know if I like it, but holy shit, I'm making an appointment. No, you always make your decision before you do that.

Ralph Burns (55:16)

My question back to on brand though is if you have a higher consideration, let's say thousands of dollars versus a couple of dollars. Do you end up spending more on branded search just as a general rule based upon the consideration factor of the product being purchased?

John Moran (55:32)

Not necessarily. I will actually spend enough to not lose out on every click.

Ralph Burns (55:37)

Okay.

John Moran (55:37)

And that's where I say don't try not to overspend. And that's when that Francesca's. We didn't lose a dime and we gained 22,000 clicks at 98% less CPC because we stopped the overspend. We still captured everybody, but we didn't spend as much. And that's where the people will make most of the time. 80% of the time. Ish. They're making their purchase decision before they Google the brand to then go and buy it or go to Amazon. That's why Amazon follows everybody else's marketing. They make the decision and they type in Amazon. But don't say this is 80% of my strategy and that's the overspend.

Ralph Burns (56:08)

Yeah, got it. Okay. I think it's just a mindset shift more than anything else.

John Moran (56:12)

Oh, this is. And we gotta like hammer this out.

Ralph Burns (56:13)

Which I love that we're repeating it over and over again because people have got to get this like. All right, Tyler C. He gets it. Are there feeder strategy case studies I can check out?

John Moran (56:23)

That'll be next week.

Ralph Burns (56:24)

Probably next week. Yeah, yeah.

John Moran (56:26)

Unfortunately, the feeder strategy case studies like you're pretty much just going to get here. Unfortunately. But that's because being we're building it in real time and testing it in real time. So you guys are actually like sometimes here. No joke. You're actually. Everyone on this channel sees it before even like leadership at tier 11 does.

Ralph Burns (56:42)

Yeah, John.

John Moran (56:43)

Because this sometimes comes first.

Ralph Burns (56:44)

John just stepped out of the lab before he actually came here. He changed out of his lab coat, took off his safety goggles, which I'm sure you wear when you're in there. No, seriously, we're testing this out. This is why you guys got. You know that the sneak peek. Sneak. Sneak.

John Moran (57:01)

Sneak preview.

Ralph Burns (57:03)

Sneak peek.

John Moran (57:04)

That's that, right? Saint Water.

Ralph Burns (57:08)

This little gin right here. A sneak peek of tier 11 data suite. So anyway, so you're getting the really super cutting edge. Yes. Make sure to vote on the poll about datasuite in the comments section. All right, Tyler C. For the feeder strategy and the conversion campaign, are you targeting an audience, site visitors, or relying on Google Algo to establish familiarity?

John Moran (57:28)

No, I'm actually doing only Google Algo because I Don't want to necessarily target the site visitors as an audience. I want them to do that on their own. But if I take a tag that has been filled up with a bunch of meta users, I don't really want it. I want the tag to come from fresh Google users. And the match rate between a Google tag and Google tag is much better than a meta pixel to Google tag. So if you pre build it, you're going to get a whole bunch of metapixels users there, which is good. But that would be a feeder strategy between meta and Google, not Google to Google, which is like standard shopping in pmax.

Ralph Burns (57:58)

Got it. Makes sense. Mitch Barnum, our newest member here, maybe he's been listening. I saw him a couple of weeks ago. Thou shall use the MPIs. I said it was John Moran's dog who said that. It was Mitch Barnum who said it. Brand for the win. Just kidding.

John Moran (58:12)

Brand only for the win.

Ralph Burns (58:14)

Yeah, baby.

John Moran (58:15)

All the roas, all the roas, all the goodness.

Ralph Burns (58:19)

You look fabulous, Mr. Agency Guy. All right. LinkedIn user. I don't know what LinkedIn user is. Hi there. Which tool are you using for Anonymous? Yeah, this is basically an unknown. This is an unattributed right here. Unattributed question.

John Moran (58:32)

Oh my God, where's wicked to tell us who's joining our lives?

Ralph Burns (58:35)

That's it. We need to find out who this person is. Which tool are you using for optimizing your feed? Thank you, John.

John Moran (58:40)

Yep. So it's interesting. You're gonna have a hard decision to make coming up in this about year or two. So if you haven't looked at the YouTube affiliate program that is being released in beta right now, highly recommend you go and check it out. YouTube affiliate would means that it's gonna. Google is gonna open up the floodgates to anybody that has a YouTube channel to simply go and select products from your catalog that they could autonomously put on their YouTube channel to go try to sell without you even knowing it. And then you have to pay them your commission and you get to set the commission. So you're like, hey, if anybody comes to my YouTube channel and buys one of my products from your YouTube channel, I'll pay you 25% and that is going to be an open no holds bar. Everybody can be an affiliate if they wanted to. The problem is you only get that through Content API, which is the Google and YouTube app. Instead of Shopify, if you use Data Feed, Watch if you use Optimizely, you will no longer be eligible to join that YouTube affiliate program changing feed management tools suck. So before you decide if you're going to be choosing one or the other, see if you're going to want to be a part of that YouTube affiliate program. Because if you say, hey, you know what, that's something, I could probably do them in the future. Just go with the content API with Google YouTube app. If you're like, no, I'm never going to need affiliates to buy my product. I really like Data Feed Watch. That's my. One of my favorite ones.

Ralph Burns (59:49)

Yeah, they're great. They should be a sponsor of the show. I think actually her perpetual show actually.

John Moran (59:53)

Talking to Magdalena right now, so.

Ralph Burns (59:55)

Oh yeah, that's right.

John Moran (59:56)

We should connect an email inbox. I got an email from her inbox from her in my inbox right now. They can get back to today.

Ralph Burns (60:01)

We've used them for years. I think they're great. All right. Nice cap, Ralph. Yes. PBR for the win to Friday by the way. Exactly. All right, Joey, our buddy here. When scaling for Black Friday, do you scale a full budget spread out across the whole month or do you save some time to eject at time of the sale?

John Moran (60:23)

I actually reduce that time of sale almost like the day of really a lot of time that's going to be like the branded traffic and that kind of stuff. Very little bit. Very minority of amount of people are looking for like last minute gifts and deals and that's really expensive. My opinion is you start a week before your time lag and you scale up to as high as you possibly can afford until like the day before day of the Black Friday sale and then you, you can, if you're more impulse buy, keep it high during the the result. But a lot of times what you'll find is that the people that are purchasing are new to the site four, five, six, seven days ago. So you don't have to spend it a bunch. You can do a really good job actually reducing by about half and getting 99% of what you were going to do. But you can save a lot of profitability that way.

Ralph Burns (61:05)

Cool, Got it.

John Moran (61:07)

Yep.

Ralph Burns (61:07)

Thanks for the question, Joey. By the way, we're getting close with Joey's that referral from Joey, so appreciate that pal. Hey, money with Mark. Look at this handsome devil. Off topic.

John Moran (61:17)

I love the stats.

Ralph Burns (61:19)

It is Movember after all. But what would a legion Google Ad strategy look like at a high level?

John Moran (61:26)

Yep. Okay, so I would use a feeder strategy on search. So use your exact match max clicks or manual cpc. Then combine that with the troas or TCPA Broad Match using the same exact campaign just cloned with that those two changes then I would use a DSA campaign at 20% of your ad spend using the dynamic ad targets that are also overlapping with the same landing pages that your Broad Match and your exact match search campaigns are also using. Make sure 10% of your money is allocated towards a I would either do a phrase match or potentially exact match brand. But unless you have like such a unique name that you can broad match it and no one else is going to have like flubergaster.com like there's like nothing that's going to overlap with anything you can use Broad Match you'd be fine.

Ralph Burns (62:05)

Right.

John Moran (62:06)

But that would be my kind of like first four things to start off with.

Ralph Burns (62:08)

Got it. Makes sense. Powell. As far as I know a new watcher here. How do you still how do you deal with the situation when PMAX feed only with high roa still blocks the display of standard product ads?

John Moran (62:18)

Manual cpc I use a low T roas. It seems to be really aggressive. So if you have a PMAX feed only and it's doing really really well, I will go down to like a 20 even a 10% troas is have a standard shopping campaign and I will double the ad spend compared to the pmax usually just launches it to the moon.

Ralph Burns (62:34)

Okay, he says max click settings with large max CPC does not work well.

John Moran (62:39)

Max clicks you really can't do. I mean you can set a max clicks bid cap but I would run this thing on a low T roas or a high tcpa, have it be smart bidding and have it be really aggressive. What that does is it basically does the same thing as performance Max does. But that campaign says well I could spend twice as much and so it earns a better ad rank. Now if you're you should have your account be in November or sorry in October where Google rolled through all the accounts and said okay, PMAX no longer takes priority. You might be lagging behind. Maybe, but that has worked in every account that I've tried out in.

Ralph Burns (63:11)

Yeah, got it. Dylan. Yes, we are going to explain CDNs way more, but we're just giving you guys a sneak peek here and trying to make it as easily digestible as possible. You're absolutely correct. Static files. Yeah, we'll get more into that in other shows, especially when we have marketing sign off. We started to jump the gun here. A lot of people don't realize it's yeah, it's not instantaneous crazy, right?

John Moran (63:38)

I know.

Ralph Burns (63:38)

Yeah, it's speed of light, really? I mean, it's not instantaneous. Nothing's fiber optic. Yeah. Did you eat the flowers from that jar, John? I don't know. This is an inside joke with Ollie. This is very important.

John Moran (63:49)

Yes.

Ralph Burns (63:49)

Oh, that's it. Yeah. It's the bouquet of flowers.

John Moran (63:53)

Actually, the. This is actually the flower water with plant food. It's like my protein shake.

Ralph Burns (63:58)

Who needs protein shakes when you have like flour?

John Moran (64:00)

I grow into a big beautiful flower.

Ralph Burns (64:02)

It's going to start sprouting flowers on the top of his head. All right, Tyler, see we only got time for like one or two more questions here. Is there a point to testing feeder strategy for non brand campaign targeting and audience? Like a member's audience? I'm thinking no, but want to hear your take.

John Moran (64:15)

Is a point. Oh, is there a point to testing feeder strategy for non brand campaigns? Target. Oh, oh, oh, oh. Yes, you absolutely could. Now you're going to have to clone those campaigns and target both of them. Don't leave one on observation because otherwise it just spikes out like crazy. My opinion though, for audience, if it's not a known audience, be very weary of how Google classifies an audience. Right now in Q4, everybody is tagged with Black Friday, Cyber Monday, shopping and Christmas shopping. Even if they're like Jewish, just because they went to a website, had they had a sale, like it doesn't mean they're actually even interested in even Christmas. So just be very mindful.

Ralph Burns (64:48)

Black Friday, Cyber Monday.

John Moran (64:50)

No, say Christmas shoppers. Like that's what's funny is like because they visit websites, Google's like, oh, you went to a website that had a Christmas shopping sale. So you're on there, you're like, no, I just wanted shoes. They just happen to be running. So the audiences are just more like they're correlation, not causation. So be very mindful. The person that bought a drum set for their five year old was a gardener. Did they buy it because they're gardener? No. So that's the thing. Just be very, very mindful. And if it's not, if it's your own audience, that's not really feeder strategy because obviously you're not trying to find new people.

Ralph Burns (65:20)

Got it.

John Moran (65:20)

So just be mindful of that first.

Ralph Burns (65:22)

Makes sense. Just so people know Hanukkah actually starts on Christmas this year. You believe that, does it really? Isn't that strange? Yeah. My wife's Jewish, so she's not really Jewish. She's Jewish.

John Moran (65:36)

That's funny.

Ralph Burns (65:37)

Yes. Tier 11 can confirm he did eat all the flowers and I think we actually got to all of our questions here and congratulations. The stash is all year round for money with Mark. But that's amazing. Anyway, thank you everyone for your questions. We will be back next week. John's going to have a big reveal on some more stuff coming out of the lab. And, yeah, we'll probably have a few more things on datasuite as well. You heard it here first.

John Moran (66:06)

This is just the intro and the basics.

Ralph Burns (66:09)

Just the sneak peek, you know, the leaked preview. That's basically what it is. All right.

John Moran (66:14)

It's like my only fans. I try to leak it myself. It never works.

Ralph Burns (66:19)

You know, I got to see your only fans account. All right, thank you so much.

John Moran (66:22)

It's just me with flowers.

Ralph Burns (66:23)

Just you with flowers. Flower water, yeah. All right, well, everyone, have a great weekend. Thank you so much for all your questions, all your participation, and we will talk to you next Friday on Tier 11 Live.

John Moran (66:33)

See you, everybody. See you.

Ralph Burns (66:38)

You've been listening to Perpetual Traffic.