How We Slashed nCAC $44 to $25 in 10 Days with Meta Andromeda

Summary

Perpetual Traffic Podcast Summary

Episode: How We Slashed nCAC $44 to $25 in 10 Days with Meta Andromeda
Date: November 18, 2025
Hosts: Ralph Burns (Tier 11) & John Moran (Tier 11)
Context: This episode dives deep into a case study where the Tier 11 team leveraged Meta’s Andromeda update and a rigorous creative diversification strategy to reduce new Customer Acquisition Cost (nCAC) from $44 to $25 in just 10 days for a digital products/lead gen client.

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Main Theme Overview

This episode breaks down, step-by-step, how Tier 11 tactically implemented Meta Andromeda-driven creative diversification to rapidly reduce nCAC. The conversation goes beyond theory, sharing hands-on insights, campaign tweaks, and fundamental shifts in Facebook/Meta advertising best practices that other agencies and advertisers are either missing—or too slow to adopt. The result? A proven playbook for leveraging creative variation and system harmony to drive measurable reductions in customer acquisition costs.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Meta Andromeda Update: Game-Changer for Performance Marketing

• The Big Shift: Meta’s Andromeda update, released December 2024, is a dramatic change in how ads are delivered and optimized—arguably the biggest since the early Facebook “right rail” days.
• Creative Diversification Is Essential: Success now means deploying at least 80% differentiated creatives regularly, in harmony with matching copy, to ensure Meta recognizes and favors their novelty.
  • “One of the biggest discoveries that we've made is that you actually have to have your creative and your ad copy in harmony with each other.” —Ralph Burns [07:15]

2. Creative Diversification in Practice

• The 5x5 Model:
  • Five insight-driven, net new concepts per month—each exploring different hooks, pain points, or offers.
  • Rapid iteration: When a creative starts winning, immediately build smarter variations of that winner.
• Meta Wants Variety & Alignment: Ad variants must differ meaningfully (not just tweaks) and should have matching messaging in both visuals and copy. Mismatched ads underperform due to Meta's improved semantic understanding.

3. The Case Study: Slashing nCAC in 10 Days

• Background:
  • Client is not traditional ecommerce; it’s a digital products/lead gen business focusing on college courses.
  • Tracking had been off for two years, focusing on micro-conversions (e.g., “begin checkout”) versus final sales.
• The Playbook Execution:
  • [11:10] Spent increased from $9,600 to $13,000 for scaling.
  • [12:35] Initial scale caused CPA to jump (“diminishing returns”); response was rapid creative iteration.
  • [13:51] New creative sets uploaded, with iterations over 3-day increments.
  • [14:17] CPA drops from $45 to $34, then to $25 as creative iterations continue.
  • Tracked over approximately 11 days and 3 rounds of creative updates—“In just 10 days, we dropped nCAC from $44 to $25.” —John Moran [19:59]
• Results Quantified:
  • 62% increase in conversions from creative refreshes with only a 23% increase in spend.
  • Additional creative updates lead to a 24% decrease in CPA, with spend nearly unchanged.
  • The bottom-line, blended nCAC from all creatives is what matters—NOT individual ad CPAs.
    • “You don't really care about any of the other ones. That's your universal NCAC from all your assets.” —John Moran [21:36]

4. Lessons in Modern Media Buying & Attribution

• Let Meta’s Engine Work:
  • Caution against “over-managing”—let Meta allocate spend to high-engagement creatives, even if individual CPAs seem high at first glance.
    • “If Meta says, ‘I'm going to do it, it works’ and you'll see a better result. The media buyer for some reason thinks that to hop in and like pause this one, it's like, do not touch it.” —John Moran [16:48]
• Understand Attribution Nuances:
  • Meta defaults to last-click attribution, but most customer journeys are multi-touch and require a range of supporting creatives.
    • “When we are importing first click CAPI imports, remember what's Meta's attribution model? Last click. Bingo.” —John Moran [19:38]
• Creative Iteration as Process, Not Event:
  • The real “unlock” is consistently generating and iterating on new creative—finding hooks that resonate and doubling down.
    • “All we basically did is find the 130 different accolades about our product that everyone loves. And we're just like telling the world.” —John Moran [24:02]
  • Media buying has been “snuffed” and creative iteration “buffed.” [25:18]

5. Practical Strategies for 2026 Planning

• Now is the Time to Plan:
  • Avoid “January Syndrome”—start planning Q1 while things are slower in late November/December.
  • Tier 11 is offering end-of-year creative diversification packages: 30 fresh, diverse creatives per month, including free media buying and Tier 11’s proprietary data suite.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On creative/copy harmony:
  “If you have a creator content video that talks about something in the art space...but your copy talks about...a more generalized audience...Meta won't understand what that ad is all about...The two of those things don't match...You have to have very, very specific copy and very specific creative that matches.” —Ralph Burns [07:15]

• On media buyer tendencies:
  “The media buyer for some reason thinks that to hop in and like pause this one...do not touch it.” —John Moran [16:48]

• Turning process into systems:
  “When I say that media buying is technical, media buying has been snuffed and the creative media buying has been buffed...think of creative first. What are your concepts? Hook, pain points, offers?” —John Moran [24:19]

• On the necessity for speed and iteration:
  “No one else knows this stuff like we know it. And we've shown it every single week here on Perpetual Traffic...You could learn it all yourself, but you might figure it all out by mid-2026 and then it's too...so get your goals, get your business, get your plan in place right now.” —Ralph Burns [08:09]

• Jargon moment:
  “This is where...if you learn attribution, everything else becomes so much easier. So don’t skip the hard part because you’re making the easy part hard.” —John Moran [19:12]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [07:15] — Major insight: Creative & copy must be in harmony for Meta to “get” the ad.
• [10:36] — The “5x5” Insight-Driven Creative Diversification Model explained.
• [13:51] — The start of creative iteration and update cycles, tracking incremental improvements.
• [14:17] — CPA drops and rapid impact of creative iteration timeline.
• [16:48] — Why media buyers shouldn’t over-control; letting Meta optimize spend.
• [19:12] — Attribution lessons: how modeling impacts perception of ad performance.
• [21:36] — Looking at total/blended nCAC as the real metric.
• [24:02] — The impact of ongoing creative testing for evergreen results.
• [25:18] — Media buying technical vs. creative; “snuffed and buffed.”

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Conclusion

The episode is a tactical masterclass for advanced performance marketers, emphasizing that Meta’s Andromeda update changed the game—requiring continuous, insight-driven creative diversification tied closely to matching ad copy. The results are quantifiable, and the process demands discipline, iteration, and a willingness to let the platform’s AI optimize spend—often running counter to old-school media buying instincts.

Takeaway:
If you want to dramatically lower your nCAC in today’s Meta landscape, prioritize creative iteration over manual bid/campaign tweaks, ensure harmony between copy and creative, and allow Meta’s algorithms to do their job. Adopt these new practices now—otherwise, by the time you catch up, your competition will have already lapped you.

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Resources & Further Learning:

• Watch the full episodes and screen shares: PerpetualTraffic.com/YouTube
• Creative Diversification package info: Tier11.com/cd
• Book a planning call: Tier11.com

Hosts:

• Ralph Burns — @ralphburns
• John Moran — Tier 11

Episode summarized by AI Podcast Summarizer.

Transcript

[Ralph Burns]

If you're still relying on Google and Facebook for all your performance, you're missing taking your performance even further. That's where Realize comes in. Realize helps performance marketers tap into more ad placements across hundreds of premium websites, reaching audiences you just can't find on traditional social channels. With intent based, contextually relevant ad placements, you can drive real conversions, not just impressions, and expand your acquisition strategy with better data, more control, and higher roi. Thousands of brands already use Realize to diversify their ad spend, boost performance and unlock high quality traffic websites that will help you scale your business results. So if you're ready to go beyond the usual playbook and start reaching new audiences, check out discover.taboola.com perpetual to learn more. Or just check out the link [e-mail] for for this episode.

[John Moran]

This account has been tracking the wrong metric for over two years and over a million dollars in ad spend. We're gonna fix that. But anyway, we're just basically counting the point where they begin checkout. So now on the 23rd, 24th, 25th, our CPA is down 10 bucks. Okay, let's practice what we preach because you all seen me say this before, but now we're actually going to show you the actuality.

[Ralph Burns]

You're listening to Perpetual Traffic. Are you losing hours building campaigns and analyzing reports? Well, activecampaigns AI agents do all the heavy lifting for you. They create content, plan campaigns and orchestrate your email, SMS and your WhatsApp all working towards your revenue goals. You get clear recommendations on what to do next backed by billions of data points. No more guessing about what's working or wasting time on manual setups. Just strategy and results. Try it all for free [e-mail] that's activecampaign.com hello and welcome to the Pareto Traffic Podcast. This is your host, Ralph burns, founder and CEO of Tier11. Not alongside my amazing co host here today, but this is a rebroadcast of a show that I did with John Moran from Tier 11 about two weeks ago. And it's amazing how quickly things change. We've actually made some even greater improvements and or discoveries since this episode of Friday's Ad Lab was recorded. Which is incredible how fast the pace of change is right now with these platforms. And this one in particular is obviously is Meta on the Meta Andromeda Update. We're learning new things every single week. Like I've mentioned many times here, John and I have spent over $7.8 million of our own money in testing this thing a lot in independent businesses before we started using this for our tier 11 clients. Some of these case studies are with tier 11 clients, some of those are with our individual businesses. The point is this is that we're finding out things every single week by testing the actual stuff, testing it in the trenches and seeing what works and what does not work. And this is, as I've said many times here on this show, is one of the most monumental changes and or shifts in how you run advertising on Meta since I started doing this 15 years ago with right hand rail ads, if you can believe that, back in the affiliate space, sending traffic to some pretty sketchy sites if I do recall. But anyway, we're not doing that here. We're actually using real client money and getting tremendous results. So if you clicked on this podcast here today, you're probably captivated by the fact that we got a NCAC number, which is a cost to acquire a new customer customer down from $44 to $25 in just 10 days. And we're going to show you exactly how we did it here. Now there's one caveat to this and something that we've since found out is that creative diversification is obviously is a big deal right now on Meta and it's a big deal for us. It's obviously it's one of the things that we're talking about we're doing internally inside tier 11, but we're realizing little nuances to it as time goes on. First off, creative diversification really means just that is that you have to have creatives in your campaigns that are at least 80% different than the other creatives. Now once you find a creative that works, you can start iterating on that creative. Use the same content creators, use the same type of ugc, use the same type of interviewing process for a founder's video, those sorts of things maybe a before and after, whatever it happens to be. There's 10 different ad types which we've talked about here many times on show. The point is this, is that the, the creative has to be diverse enough for Meta to be able to recognize it as different. And John doesn't really talk about that all that much. On this week's show, one of the biggest discoveries that we've made is that you actually have to have your creative and your ad copy in harmony with each other. And we didn't even talk about this. So if, if you have a creator content video that talks about something in the art space just as an example, but your copy talks about the same type of product in the more generalized audience space. Not specific to art, not specific to maybe music or whatever your niche is. Meta won't understand what that ad is all about because it sees one thing in the copy, it sees another thing in the creative. And the two of those things don't match. And so they're not able to go out and find that ideal art customer or music customer. You have to have very, very specific cop and very specific creative that matches and is in harmony with each other. And that's a big part of creative diversification right now. So we're going to get into today's case study. It's a short episode here today, but I think it's a really important one because it talks about all the different things that we've learned up to this point in time. Plus I just gave you a couple of additional things that we've learned. And of course, if you don't want to do this stuff yourself, you just want us to do it. We are offering a package right now through the year end. Now we're in mid to late November as of this recording. And a lot of you are probably thinking about 2026. Well, the time to think about 2026 is not in January. Time to think about 2026 is right now, is to plan right now. Put that plan in place so you can hit the ground running after January 1st. Because I know a lot of you are very focused right now on Black Friday, Cyber Monday, but then you have this sort of two, three week period inside of December where, where you can start planning for the next year. Obviously folks of yours, probably within your department, within your company, probably gonna be taking some time off between now and the end of the year. So now is a great time to start planning and it's. Now is a great time to book a call with tier 11 so we can plan out your 2026 and make 2026 the best year ever. And as I've stated a couple of times here on this show, we now have a package that we are offering for creative diversification, which is all the things that we've learned up until this point. No one else knows this stuff like we know it. And we've shown it every single week here on Perpetual Traffic. And on the tier 11 lives, which are now known as the Ad Lab, we are offering the Creative Diversification package, which is 30 creatives per month, all diverse, all of those 10 different AD types. Plus you buy that package and you get the media buying and the tier 11 data suite for free. It's an unbelievable offer. We're offering it only through the end of the year. So book a call now with our team. Go through the page. We've got a page that's set up that explains creative diversification a little bit more. It's tier11.com CD. Or you can just go to tier11.com and book a call through that. The point is this. Setting yourself up for success in 2026 begins now. All right? And the best way to do it, especially if you're running advertising on meta, the best thing to do is to use this strategy and to tap into the expertise. You could learn it all yourself, but you might figure it all out by mid-2026 and then it's too. So get your goals, get your business, get your plan in place. Right now, book a call with us [e-mail] apply or head over to our creative diversification special page, which is211.com CD. You buy the creative diversification package, you get the media buying, professional media buying. These are real media buyers, two or three on every single pod, plus the tier 11 data suite, which is the top end, absolute best data program and solution that we've ever found for third party attribution. You get both of those things for free. So check it out [e-mail]. So without further ado, here's John and myself talking about this incredible case study. Getting the CPA getting the NCAC down from $44 to $25 in just 10 days. And it's not even in the E commerce niche. It's in the Legion Digital Products niche. So take it away, guys. On to the next case study.

[John Moran]

Ah, Mitch is here. He says, I'm here. You can start.

[Ralph Burns]

Also, thank God, Mitch is here. Hey, are you struggling to connect the dots across your marketing? Well, AdRoll's connected advertising platform turns complexity into clarity with AI powered campaigns and seamless integrations. Advertise smarter, move faster, achieve more, learn [e-mail] PT that's adroll.com PT I love Mitch even more.

[John Moran]

I optimize for view only and brand terms only. On Google, it says Mitch. He goes, just kidding, just kidding. I'm like, I, I do too. I'm like, look at all the million dollars that you made off.

[Ralph Burns]

Yeah, but you know, if there's a view, that means it's coming from that platform.

[John Moran]

Of course, of course. So I wanted to touch upon the creative diversification. We've been following the model that we've been using and this is Actually model here. You've seen this before and yeah, this.

[Ralph Burns]

Is an actual meta deck we're showing, like meta stuff. Yeah, this isn't a hack.

[John Moran]

John is the practitioner guide. Like Andromeda came out in December of 2024 for those still not in the know or living under a digital marketing rock, but this is what they're producing. So here's an example and I won't go through this again because we, we've already gone through this, but we've been following the five driven.

[Ralph Burns]

You have to hammer this into people's heads.

[John Moran]

Yeah, yeah, really do.

[Ralph Burns]

But people that are watching on this channel, but you know, people that are actually working at tier 11 too. So go ahead, keep hammering.

[John Moran]

Let's hammer away. So five insight driven and five insights driven. Net new concepts per month basically means like, what's your hook, Pain point, offer? Like, what is your marketing plan for this product or service? Create at least 2, 3, 4, 5 would be great. And then whatever starts to win when the traffic and audiences start to resonate with it. You see leads and sales and clicks and yada, yada, yada, make better versions of the winners. And so we said, okay, let's practice what we preach because you all have seen me say this before, but now we're actually going to show you the actuality. So back on September 20th, we said, hey, let's scale, scale up. So we added 3, $500, went from 9, 600 to 13 grand in. So I just.

[Ralph Burns]

So we're clear, you are basically doing what Meta recommends you to do.

[John Moran]

Yeah. Okay. Crazy enough. I mean, the Andromeda model makes so much sense when you look at the literature.

[Ralph Burns]

Absolutely.

[John Moran]

It says, here's all the people inside of Meta, here's your ads. We're going to find out what ads works to the right audiences and we'll deliver your ads correctly to the users. Like, okay, like, I understand that let's. And says do it this way. So we said, okay.

[Ralph Burns]

I mean, those beautiful Nvidia chips, right?

[John Moran]

Out of the 6,000 data marketing agencies, there's like, you know, two that are running Andromeda and it's, you know, us and my other agency I'm a part of, like, that I have personally. So hey, may as well be the first one to kind of, you know, listen to Google and find out or listen to Meta and find out what happens.

[Ralph Burns]

So I forget the last time we were together, but I was at a Meta conference in New York and nobody. I talked to everybody. Like every agency I talked to, like, they're not Doing any of this stuff?

[John Moran]

No, no.

[Ralph Burns]

A dozen people, like, including my rep, who's brand new, like he came from Tick Tock. He's a nice guy, but he's sort of still learning it. It's like, what do you think about the Andromeda update? He's like, what? What? It's.

[John Moran]

It's insane. Yeah. Like so I know we're so far in, in the weeds and deep into this, but I mean, I don't know how you call yourself a professional and not do that. It's. It's like you know me, beyond me. It's like, hey, I need you to write a book. I'm like, okay, hold on.

[Ralph Burns]

Like Dink.

[John Moran]

It's like, you know they invented pens, right?

[Ralph Burns]

But hammer and chisel, My way of doing it. Yeah. All right, keep going.

[John Moran]

So we increased the ad spe. We saw some really hitting point. Diminishing return cost per result went up 61% and our results went down 15%. We said, okay, what do we do? Well, we have to iterate our creative. And so this is on September 20th, the 23rd or 22nd, when we push, we said, okay, this isn't working.

[Ralph Burns]

And just. So this is not an E commerce client. Correct.

[John Moran]

It sort of is. It's a long sales cycle. They're college courses. So you could do it lead gen, you could do lead flow, you could do E commerce, everything. So we're basically optimizing for per click through checkout because this account has been tracking the wrong metric for over two years and over a million dollars in ad spend. So because of a long sales cycle, we basically counted a micro conversion first so that we can retrain who these actual people are. We're backfilling it from AOS so that it actually appends to the per click through checkout, custom events through capi. And so we're basically importing first click CAPI imports, but just on a previous touch point simply because their tech stack, even AOS is like, we can't see the conversions. Neither can a. No one can see the conversion. It goes through like three different websites and loses everything. So we're going to fix that. But anyway, we're just basically counting the point where they begin checkout + +.

[Ralph Burns]

Edge tag on this as well.

[John Moran]

Edge tag first click checkouts rather than edge tag first click purchases. Exactly right.

[Ralph Burns]

Correct. Got it.

[John Moran]

Yep. And so we saw a softening in this, in this performance and we basically just said, well, let's follow the model that and let's do we iterate our five new Pieces of creative. And so that was on the 20th through the 22nd. And so after we uploaded our new creative on the 22nd, then we look at the 23rd, 24th, 25th, and we see what happens. We increased our spend again and we said, okay, let's try to make a push now that we have new creative.

[Ralph Burns]

Yeah.

[John Moran]

And that's where we saw.

[Ralph Burns]

It's very cool. This is three day increments.

[John Moran]

Three day increments.

[Ralph Burns]

Three day increments. Got it.

[John Moran]

Yeah. Keep going. So now on the 23rd, 24th, 25th, our CPA is down 10 bucks. So we went from 45 down to 34. And remember, we were at 30 and shot up to 45 and now we're at 45 down to 34. And then we increased our conversions by 62% with 25% or 23% NAS spend. We said, okay, let's just follow this along. So the next week, Fast forward to October 1st, we said, okay, let's do some more creative iterations. We updated all of our creative on the 30th. I don't have the next three days since we only have the first two days after it. Okay, we've been looking at three day increments. 23, 24, 25. Three day increments. 20, 21, 22. I only have the first. Second. I'll have the third. But once I have the third, then that spend will normalize. But it looks like we're down 16%. We're good today. We're back up to normal ranges. I just don't have all the imports just yet. But long story short, kind of in the two days, our CPA is now down to 25 better than it was the week and a half ago before we started our creative iteration process. And now we're seeing a 10% increase in results and a 24% decrease in cost per result for 16% less spend. So we're back down now to $25 where we started at 28. So now we're actually better since the 20th to the 1st. So that was 11 day period. We did three rounds of iterations and we dropped our CPA, still $3 cheaper than where we were before with an increase in ad spend and all we're doing and we look at the view history here, Let me go to the 30th so you can see this is when we are this all started delivery of all of our ads. We basically just updated all of our creative on the 30th. You can see here we paused a whole bunch and then we, we added new iterations. And what's cool about this is you can kind of see like from the 30th to the second compared to previous period when we said, all right, let's start adding in new ads. These are all starting to be reduced. Some are still working, some are heavy reduced. And you can see all of this negative here, negative 63, negative 69, negative 70, negative 6. I mean, you can almost see it pausing these things for you. My spend is 0.07% difference, but these are all down 60 percentile. And then this one ad, all of a sudden just one sucked up eight GS immediately in the first two days, spends the same. And then look at this thing. It is giving us 221 conversions at a 37, which is still $10 higher, but it has brought down the overall 16. So people are like, well, what happens if an ad sucks up the ad spend? It's like, that's a. That that's ABO and cbo. That's you in control. You're no longer in control anymore. Metazan control. So if Meta says, I'm going to do it, it works and you'll see a better result. The media buyer for some reason thinks that to hop in and like pause this one, it's like, do not touch it.

[Ralph Burns]

That would be the first reaction.

[John Moran]

Exactly.

[Ralph Burns]

Wait a second. You know, if I'm looking at an app, I mean, it's the cpa. I guess we're talking about NCAC here, obviously, but CPA is. It's not 37. It's the total for that. I thought it was like 47 for your top one. For your top UGC ad.

[John Moran]

Oh, 37. Yeah.

[Ralph Burns]

Oh, it is 37.

[John Moran]

Okay. Yeah.

[Ralph Burns]

But also, why should I not turn that off? What's the rationale for that?

[John Moran]

Yeah, so this one you're thinking about what has a high amount of Aspen when you have 8,000 out of $14,000. What do we think this ad is doing to the cold traffic? Imagine we put an ad in there and it's going to go and go out to the cold traffic and it's starting the users on their journey. It has the highest amount of ad spend and has a high amount of engagement.

[Ralph Burns]

And.

[John Moran]

But without having the frequency be crazy high. So you have a high amount of.

[Ralph Burns]

Engagement, it's engaging in the market, it's expanding the market, it's increasing awareness in the market. It's getting some conversions, but it's sucking up the ad spend for a specific reason. Because Facebook says or Meta says that that's where they are in the journey. They need to see this piece of content in order to continue down the journey and ultimately make the purchase.

[John Moran]

And we see the rest of the ads here. Doing what? So the CPA is getting better and we even have 20% more, 14% more. 14357100 these eating all of these other.

[Ralph Burns]

Ads really is what's happening.

[John Moran]

Yeah. Now this is down checkouts, but the CPA better. This is down checkouts, but the CPA is better. This is down checkouts but the CPA is better. So it seems to be reshuffling the deck. And the ads that they have more information on because they've been running longer are extremely smart because they have had longer time period. So when we say hey, we need to see this new ad start to re engage people. Why? Well, the week before when we were looking at the top performing pieces of creative that had the highest amount of ad spend, it was guess what? A ugc. So what do you think we did? We went and created another or ugc.

[Ralph Burns]

That's what works. That's what's resonating with this market. And one of the 10 AD types, you just never really know which one is working. Is there a founder story in here too or no?

[John Moran]

Yeah, we have a founder story in here as well. But the here's what's awesome is here's where where a lot of media buyers will get st stuck because they haven't been trained and taught attribution. And this is where if you learn attribution, everything else becomes so much easier. So don't skip the hard part because you're making the easy part hard. So what I mean by this is when we are importing first click capi imports, remember what's Meta's attribution model?

[Ralph Burns]

Last click.

[John Moran]

Bingo. So you're saying, John, I need this thing to spend a lot. I need to get the first click. They need to see nothing else and they have to click this and then I won't pause it like you're asking for the impossibility.

[Ralph Burns]

Everybody is going to see my ad and click the very first time and then buy John.

[John Moran]

Right.

[Ralph Burns]

That's how humans work things. That always happens. Never.

[John Moran]

Yeah, time lag, sales cycle is all fooey. It's, it's fugazi, you know. So that's what's interesting is like if you haven't had this resonate with the marketplace and you say no, no, no, they have to click that and only that and not see anything else. Show off everything else. That's what I used to do. Right, yes. That's why you're, you're not teaching these, this is why we are, this is the examples that we're going through. So it is very, very interesting to see how the meta and engine is working. But if you follow the rules, I could drop my CPA from 44 to 25 in 10 days by simply just making more ads that, that work. Now to let me, let me jump back into Microsoft Paint here, become a graphic designer again for a moment.

[Ralph Burns]

Are you struggling to keep up with marketing tasks? ActiveCampaign's autonomous marketing platform eliminates the busy work automatically. Building and optimizing email, SMS and WhatsApp journeys all for you. It's all powered by billions of data points that show you what drives revenue so you can launch campaigns in minutes instead of weeks. Extend your team with AI agents that handle campaign admin and tedious tasks that you know your team doesn't want to do. Focus on strategy and let the AI do the rest with data driven decisions. Clear next steps and on brand messaging across every channel. Try the next era of marketing for [e-mail] well, just to your point, like you're looking, I want to get back to that one. But I mean what you're really looking at is the bottom line cost per checkout, which was $27. You don't really care about any of the other ones. That's your, that's your universal NCAC from all your assets.

[John Moran]

Exactly. This is the total assets combined. Exactly. And here's why. So if you develop an ad here, it says, great, I'm gonna take the ad and I'm gonna ship Traffic shows.

[Ralph Burns]

This art skills, it's very good.

[John Moran]

I, I spent six months at art school while picking up my wife when she went to art school. So, so you develop an ad, it takes the ad and shows it to the people and says, hey, you know what? Out of all 10, we like half of these. So these ads, you know, here are good and these ads over here are bad, whatever it is. So they choose the ads that they're that are working with and then they say okay, great. The next day they basically take those ads and they show it to them again and say, hey, they still really like those. Now on day three, are they going to say take those same ads and show it to the users again? Meta's gonna say, no, sorry, we're cutting you off there. Stop. We're not going to beat the crap out of these people. Well what has happened so far? Well, we tested a bunch of ads, and you know what they resonated with? They resonated with the fact that this has college credits that will transfer to any university, and the next week it was college credits that transferred to any university, and the next day is college credits that transfer to the next university, and the next day is college credit. I know that.

[Ralph Burns]

Stop Banner. I'm banner blind already.

[John Moran]

Exactly. So what do we have to do? We have to, we have to use a new iteration. We have to use a different variation of these. What else can you tell them? You already told them that what else?

[Ralph Burns]

Right. They didn't convert on that message. However, in the back of their mind, they maybe remember it, maybe they don't. But then Meta says, let's show you another ad with a slightly different message because we didn't get the result by showing you that ad that we wanted. So let's show you another ad.

[John Moran]

Exactly. And there's always traffic flowing in and flowing out of the marketplace. So there's always flowing and flowing out. And what you're trying to do is identify your pain points, your hooks, your offers that are resonating with the marketplace. So this can become more evergreen. Once it's evergreen, you're like my Vermont glove company. I've been running the same ads since May 14th, and I have 129 active ads, and all of them have under 30 CPA. And I'm only spending 250 bucks a day because we've, we've, we've kept, we've kept iterating our process to what we see working well with the audience. We said, let's make a new version, make a new version, make a new version. And if you go all the way back here since May of 2025, I mean, we're literally going back May, June, July, August, September into October. And we look at my one Andromeda campaign and we look at my one ad set, and we look at my ads that are descending by spending. I have now spent $23,000. Not a whole lot because I'm only spending 25 or 250 bucks a day. But I have 130 ads. And look at the CPA. They're just beautiful. Like $25 across the board. Everything is just crank.

[Ralph Burns]

$125 product, 125 NAOV. In this case, yeah.

[John Moran]

$9,000 increase in Aspen year over year was a $220,000 top line increase. So this, all we basically did is find the 130 different accolades about our product that everyone loves. And we're just like telling the world we don't even have enough money to increase this or we don't have enough inventory to increase the spend because we're trying to keep up with demand. We kind of like plateaued. But again, that is a creative iterative process. I've been following it since, for the last five months tested the out of it. It works. I wanted some more recent results to share with everyone of how the Andromeda Diversification playbook came out and said, do it this way. I said, okay, I'll do it this way because no one else is testing this and it's working extremely well. When I say that media buying is technical, media buying has been, has been snuffed and the creative media buying has been buffed. Like that's what we're talking about. So when you're like, huh, this isn't working, think of creative first. What are your concepts? Hook, pain points, offers? Are you having good nomenclature? Are you reacting? What is positive and are you iterating that process? If the answer is no, you're not using Andromeda. Yeah.

[Ralph Burns]

Snuffed and buffed. I love it. All right, so I hope you enjoyed today's show. If you were just listening to today's show, make sure you head over to our YouTube channel, perpetualtraffic.com forward/YouTube and check it out over there. Make sure you subscribe so you don't miss any updates because we're doing a lot of screen shares on these perpetual traffic episodes. Because creative Diversification and the Meta Andromeda Update is such a visual thing and it's super important for you to understand exactly how to do it click by click and we show you exactly how to do it like we did on today's show here. And of course, if you are thinking about 2026 and you're looking to plan out your next year, now's a perfect time to do it. And to tap into our expertise of perfecting this creative diversification meta Andromeda strategy that John and I talked about on today's show. You buy the creative diversification package and you get the media buying, the most professional best media buying on the Planet, plus the Tier 11 data suite, which is our homegrown attribution system that combines three of the top martech platforms on the planet into one to get 99.4% accuracy on your data. It's absolutely amazing. Get those two things for free when you buy the creative diversification package. Check it out over at tier11.com or over on our page at tier11.com forward/cd, we can learn a little bit more about creative diversification. So hopefully you enjoyed this week's show. We'll continue to rebroadcast the best stuff from over at the Ad Lab, which we do do every Friday, 2:30pm Eastern on YouTube and all the tier 11 channels. And of course, wherever you listen to podcasts, make sure you leave us a rating review. We help get this thing out to people who want to do it the right way and teach them how to do it the right way. And we really do appreciate you all listening here and leaving ratings and reviews for Perpetual Traffic. So on behalf of my amazing co host, Lauren E. Petrulo, till next show, see ya. You've been listening to Perpetual Traffic.