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- [00:00]
A
This client had spent like 10 to 15 to almost $12,000 in ad spend for a webinar that didn't convert at all. Now we were able to do an add in additional qualifications.
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B
Right. You've got a strategy document that you and your team use that goes through all this info.
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A
Products is where people think of an assume of webinars but this works for service based businesses. But the ultimate goal, what will make this webinar successful is if we.
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B
You're listening to Perpetual Traffic. Hello and welcome to the Perpetual Traffic podcast. This is your host Ralph burns, founder and CEO of Tier 11 alongside my amazing co host Lauren E. Petrulo, the.
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A
Founder of Mongoose Media.
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B
Glad you joined us here today and today's show, it's going to be a quick one. The thing we have not talked about here on this show and it's always something that is an undercurrent of everything that we do or it's either an undercurrent or it's like the top down thing that we use in order to create and do the stuff that we do.
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A
Yup.
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B
If that makes any sense whatsoever. But what we're talking about here is strategy. And whenever I explain to somebody what we do at 2:11 I use the conversion engine which is Traffic Creative after the click, all surrounded by data. But the oil in that engine is this thing called strategy. And it is, it came up last night, I was at a fundraising event, we talked about it prerecord here today. And strategy is the thing and it's not necessarily buying media, it's not necessarily Facebook ads or Google Ads or whatever after the click. Email, sms, you know, chatbots, those are all tools that enable the strategy to happen because the strategy is dictated primarily by the goal. Are you following what I'm saying here? Lauren Epitrulo, MBA emoji, blonde on a laptop.
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A
Lauren Epartullo.
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B
That's the one that I'm talking about. Exactly. Yeah, yeah.
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A
Oh, I'm following along right away because I mean in a recent episode we had done, we had talked about how all of the updates that are happening with the ad network ecosystems is removing a lot of the decisions as it relates to who and what buttons to push, like who to target, which buttons to push. But you can't lose sight of what is the oil that's driving the engine along. So yeah, I'm not only following you, I'm like backpacking you right now.
- [02:26]
B
Backpacking right behind you. Good. Backpacking is good. So yeah, so a lot of the shows that We've done recently have been on the Meta Andromeda update. We're very excited about that. But what we have not touched on and those episodes are great from a tactical standpoint, it's like, all right, what are we trying to achieve? And in some of those examples, for example, it's a goal for acquiring new customers at a specific cost, which we obviously know is ncac. You can obviously, if you don't know what NCAC is, you can figure out what your NCAC is over@perpetualtraffic.com NCAC or calculator. That is obviously an important thing to know prior to whatever that goal is.
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A
You have to know. If you don't know your numbers, you have no numbers to report on.
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B
Correct.
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A
It's non negotiable.
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B
Correct. So to get that, the strategy might be very different and that's kind of the thing that you and I do all day long is we figure out, okay, what mix of these elements, what mix of these tools in the toolbox are we going to use in order to achieve the goal? And that is called strategy. Correct me if I'm wrong. So like what that is.
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A
So for example, strategy and wine.
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B
Strategy.
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A
I think those are the two.
- [03:36]
B
Yeah. Strategy and wine. Lots and lots of strategy. So I was at an event last night, I was at a fundraising event last night and those woman that was there that was like, hey, I've got $10,000, like how should I spend it in order to grow my E commerce brand? And I said, well, what are you trying to do? And she's like, well, I'm trying to promote my fall line. I said, you've got $10,000? She's like, yeah, every agency I talked to is like 5,000 this, 7,000 this, and I don't have any money for it. So what do you think I should do? I was like, this is a strategy question. What should you do if you have a $10,000 budget and you're trying to promote a specific line to sort of a regionalized business in most cases for her it could be national Branch does have a Shopify store. I, I was like, don't spend your money on any of that stuff. What you should do is you should do an organic strategy and create lots of content, which is free technically takes her time. I was like, what do you have? You have $10,000 but you also have time. She's like, yeah, I've got time to promote it. I'm dealing with all the ins and outs of business. So that was a strategy question. That wasn't like a tactical question. Like the tactics would be social media would be doing more posts, doing more reels, highlighting the new things that are coming in the catalog, doing that and then that will then dictate a paid strategy once you get some momentum on that organic. So that's what we're kind of talking about here is something like that that has nothing to do with us at tier 11. Like we wouldn't, you know, she wouldn't hire us to do that. Like do that on your own. And there's plenty of times I get on discovery calls. I don't know if you do this at all. I'm like, listen dude, you don't need us right now. What you need is you need this, you need this other thing. You need to increase your aov, you need to do and after the click, kind of enhance your naov, your lifetime value. Do that first and then come back to us after you've figured that out. And he's like, oh well I really wanted to hire you guys. I'm like, well it's probably not the thing for you to do right now. It's not the smart thing for you to do. So anyway, so that's like strategy questions, strategy conversations that I tend to have. On your side. You've got a strategy document that you and your team use to post hiring mongoose, if I'm not mistaken, that goes through all this. Right. And like sets it up and you know what you might talk to them about in the first call might be different than what you actually find out once you get really into the business, deep into the business and decipher what that next code is.
- [05:59]
A
Yeah, so this is definitely a post hire kind of doc that we've been adding more and more into because it's been before in conversations. Now we just have a format in which we're doing it. So we hold do these either every like half year or every quarter as like an overarching, hey, this is what we're going towards. This is how we're doing our budgets because we'll usually get budget forecast for 90 days to 180 days. I was like, oh, let me do six months really quick. Whatever. We'll do three months to six month forecasted period. So then we're going to look at that dollar amount in aggregate and then figure out where do we want to distribute that money against different campaigns, against different channels. So historically it's been conversations and that we do, but now we've been formatting a process which is making it easier for Us internally and externally for our clients when we share it. So it's something that is working well for us, is building momentum for better communication so that we're not working in silos, which can be really easily done when everyone's remote and on different time zones. Like you have counts in California, you have accounts in London, you have accounts in Australia. Like there's, there's a lot of asynchronous comms that are happening. And so this is a process that we have continued to refine that I'm excited to share with listeners if they find it helpful.
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B
Yeah. So if you don't. All right, so take, take up through this. Like what's first, second, third, kind of. How do you start? I assume it starts with a goal.
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A
Yeah, yeah, that's fair. So it starts with a goal and a budget. So again, we have ones that we do two different types. We do ones where it's like a quarterly strategy or like a six month type of strategy when we have the budget. And it's not that once we create this strategy, we're locked in, it is, is just showing, hey, this is how we're prepared to spend your money so that we can achieve your target as efficiently as possible. That's the purpose of this. But then we also do strategy docs when it comes to a campaign. So if there's a specific sale, a Labor Day sale, a Black Friday promotion, when we have new budget that's dedicated to a certain campaign, then we'll create a different strategy doc. So we'll have an overall strategy for this time period and then we'll have a dedicated campaign strategy when that target comes up. Because they're like, with launches, you always have a very different type of strategy that you need to weave in. So mindful of the two, I'll go first for the high level one. So when we're doing like a quarterly strategy, or maybe it's even like a four month strategy because sometimes you'll jump in and say like, hey, we've got new budget, let's reassess how we're doing. The goal is what is our target acquisition? Is it leads, is it phone calls, is it sales, Whatever that is, it has to be led by an agreed upon target acquisition cost and an agreed upon budget. If we don't have those two things, it's. It's harder to dictate where we want to put the money in terms of channel and in terms of campaign types if we don't have those two fundamental things.
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B
So to backtrack, you've got budget and targets, but that's dictated by you ask the client or you know, like you as a business or listening to you're the VP of marketing. Like what does your CEO want you to do? Like what's the goal? It's. I was on a call with a PI firm yesterday. Like we want to increase our signed cases by 10% every month in 2026. And we start with this number. It's like very, very clear and. But us breaking even as an organization is this number. So she was very clear on what. Like that's the goal how when you know your numbers. She knows her numbers well, really know her numbers 100%. But I was like well how much can you pay to get a signed case in that particular case? And she didn't quite know that. However, she knew she needed all these signed cases. I'm like, all right, well how much you can spend in order to get them? So there's that. So I know what the big goal is. I don't know what the budget is yet and what the target and. Or the budget is. Like the key metric, the KPI, the marketing performance indicator, whatever it is, you know, just name that. Like there's gotta be a key metric in there somewhere. And then what's your. What are you comfortable with your budget? And for us it's a matter of. All right, if you want to spend $30,000 a month and you want to get let's say 70 or 100 PI lawyer cases, that's 300 per case that I know in that space that's going to be very challenging.
- [10:19]
A
So which is why it's agreed upon numbers. It has to be an agreed upon. Because we had a client reach out to us and said we'd like to do our cpa, our target cost per acquisition, new customers, our ncac would be $50. Like I know this space. I'm not doing it for anything less than $200. I like I. You're asking too much. I'm happy to try, but I'm not going to set myself up for failure.
- [10:41]
B
Correct, correct. So that has to be kind of hashed out in the pre onboarding process a bit because otherwise there's just this mismatch and you know, you're setting expectations for a team. You have to be able to set expectations that are realistic at the end of the day, but you also have to be able to sort of push them to exceed expectations. There's always that. But yeah, so. But the big goal is like in this example of your client like, what is their goal as a revenue goal? Is it a growth goal? Is it what? What do they really want? Like, why are they hiring you?
- [11:14]
A
Okay, so their goal is always revenue, but then it becomes the difference between sales and marketing. Right. We had a client recently where we delivered tons of leads and tons of phone calls, but they hadn't closed a single one. So in that capacity, like for all those that are in marketing, the goal is always increased revenue and there's always going to push back. Well, you didn't give quality leads or like, hey, you didn't contact the leads, right? There's always going to be that target goal is always revenue. But we backtrack to how we can get to that revenue through predictable systems. So one that I'm looking at, that's in front of my screen, I'm not sharing the screen because I was like, it has all this client data into it. But we knew that, like they're running an online webinar and on their webinars they do high ticket sales. I don't have control of what they say on the webinar. I don't have control of how they, what they say on those sales calls or those conversion calls. So we know with this campaign specifically, so this is a campaign specific type of strategy. Two columns. So first column is key items where I'm saying, what is the product? So it's a live webinar on this date, I have the ad budget clearly laid out. I say the flight date so that we know when do these run? Because when does this campaign have to start and when does this campaign end? Don't forget the flight dates. And then underneath it we have our target KPIs. So for this one, it's like completed registration. So people that sign up, we know that our target for this type of webinar is $7 a lead. But we have a reach goal where we actually want to do it for less than $3. So, so we have our, our target and then we have our reach goal based off of already what we know in the history of the account and everything like that. Then we know that we have an upsell from the webinar that we want to achieve how many of those we want to do and what is our target revenue? So the target say registrations, this number at $7 or reach for 2,000 at $3. So we have a reach for 7. Sorry, 857 registrations at $7 a pop or a reach for 2,000 registrations at $3 a pop. Right. So we know that we need to hit 8:57. That's something that we're very comfortable hitting. But we actually want to do is 2000 at $3 a pop. Then we know that we want to self liquidate 50%. So this budget is $6,000. So we want to earn back $3,000. We're okay with taking a loss. I'm okay with taking a $10,000 loss based off of how I know they convert high ticket sales. So this is an info coaching space. So we want to self liquidate 50%. That's why we added a VIP upsell to the end of it. But the ultimate goal, what will make this campaign success, this webinar successful is if we can do six figures plus of sales. So we know that we've done this before. Not something we're afraid of. So we have $6,000 ad spend which we want to achieve a 6 figure in high ticket sales. That's, that's the goal. I can't take credit for all of the high ticket sales because again, I don't have control of what they say on webinar. I don't have control of what they say on the sales calls. That's where the sales, it's the marketing to sales handoff. But we have alignment of like here's our targets, here's how we're going to contribute to this. And I know that I need to bring qualified leads, hence why we go back to that $7. Because I'm not just taking everyone. It's not anyone. It's a specific one. Right. Like I think back to the Corey conversation that we had. So in that capacity, that's what we have in column one with a small thing of notes where we're talking about how ensuring that all of the creative is specifically about the event and any and all call to action specifically goes to our webinar funnel pages. So just making sure that that's abundantly clear. So that's our first column. Does that make sense so far?
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B
It does. What I'm fuzzy on is the goal. You said six figures in revenue in.
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A
High ticket sales that are a result from everyone that we bring to this webinar.
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B
Okay. So I'm thinking 100,000 plus. But that's a wide variation there.
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A
Yeah. I say high ticket sales is 100k plus.
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B
Okay.
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A
So I just say six figures.
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B
So if, if you're making revenue wise 100k plus through the strategy, through the, you know, the individual KPIs that you're shooting towards, in this particular case, a hundred thousand dollars plus in revenue would be a win, a huge win.
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A
We're spending $6,000 in ads. There's. But there's like, there's other things, right? Like they have sales team members, they're putting together the webinar. Like there's all these different things. And again, we've already done this for this client and for other clients where we've spent $6,000 in ad spend, generated leads to go to this event and then this event produced a hundred plus thousand dollars in high ticket sales.
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B
So you've got a, we have a.
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A
Track record with this client and in this vertical.
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B
Because in most cases, if you're spending $6,000 in ads to make $100,000 plus in revenue, it's a bit of a stretch.
- [15:51]
A
Yeah. And it's, it looks really nice as an agency, like, yeah, 6, 6K. An ad spend for six figures in revenue. Oh, that sounds amazing. But you have to remember though, like, there's a webinar that's happening. There's a sales team that's a part of it. There's a lot of work that runs into it that's pre prep and planning and there's things that will contribute to the strategy and stuff. But like that in and of itself is a product that we are advertising. So I, as much as I love to say, yeah, six figures announcement led to six figures in sales. Like, this is a great product, this is a great client, this is a great system that we're amplifying as efficiently.
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B
As every step along the way. Because you've done a few for. So that's, that's obviously helpful.
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A
Yes.
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B
To have that.
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A
Yes.
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B
Not everyone has that. So. But let's set that aside for right now. So it's like, yeah, that sounds like.
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A
I'm scared of like sharing the numbers because of like it applies differently.
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B
Of course. I'm just saying. So, so for people that are listening that are saying, well, I'm not spending $6,000 making six figures in revenue. And my.
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A
But are you, I would say anyone that's listening that's doing a webinar. Are you spending $6,000 on your webinar?
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B
Don't know.
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A
Let's go from there, Ralph. Because the reality is, is I have a lot more phone calls where people are spending maybe $2,000 on a webinar. I will tell you straight off, I don't think if you're going to do a webinar and you want to have a proper launch, you need to spend at least $5000. I think you should do $5000 for your first three and then $10,000 for your fourth one. And you have to know that those first three that you're spending your $5000 on is you learning, are you having a good webinar? Is your webinar converting? Are you contacting the leads? Like you have to be ready to set that 15k on fire. So, so that then you can then spend 6400. Because we came into this client and they've been, they've had an established business, they've had other people do this for years. It's just that before we came on, this client had spent like 10 to 15, so almost $12,000 in ad spend for a webinar that didn't convert at all. Now that's a. They didn't have qualified leads come into the webinar, which we were able to do and add in additional qualifications. There's pieces where like we can absolutely take credit and what we've collaborated with the client for and then we bring with other client learnings that we've brought into this. But then there's also stuff like if this is your first webinar and you're spending less than $5,000 and you didn't assume that that $5,000 was set on fire, it's an investment to get to the point where this still happens. And this isn't an isolated example for a client. This happens.
- [18:11]
B
Oh yeah, absolutely. I think for any new business that is trying to sell something online through a webinar strategy or through a webinar formula, like there is going to be a learning curve in your first two or three and most are going to be probably upside down on it and probably not make money on it. In most cases, at least the ones that I.
- [18:31]
A
You should be upside down on all of them. I'm going to always argue you should be upside down on all of them because your goal is not to self liquidate your funnel. Your goal is to make money. So the same as if you're doing a seminar, an in person event, you're spending 25 to $30,000 on an in person event to sell a ticket between 197 and 997 for an in person attending. I see a lot of accounts are like, well, I want to break even, I want to cover the costs. Like Maybe you're spending $15,000 an ad spend $10,000 on food and beverage in AV for the actual venue. That $25,000 is an investment to get the right people in the room because you're not caring about $25,000 to make back. You're trying to do a $200,000 day.
- [19:07]
B
Oh, yeah.
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A
So that's where it's like, it's. These are big numbers and like if you're not there yet, that's okay. Just I'm, I'm signaling like from small to big accounts. There's that learning curve that you need to be prepared of. But if you have a strategy in place and you know what you're coming into, you have to remember that your ads aren't going to be an ATM until you've established an offer that just prints money.
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B
Right. So we're really speaking to the offer itself. Getting back to the strategy. So there's your strategy. Like you've got all your numbers mapped out ahead of time.
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A
That's the first column in our strategy for the campaign.
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B
Okay.
- [19:42]
A
Yeah. The second column is broken into two parts. So if you think of it as like a quadrant. So like one column has all the, from the notes to the targets and then the second column has important links. So we're, here's the ClickUp link for this task. Here's the landing page and the standard event. So we want a view content on the standard event, the thank you page. We want complete registration. Standard event VIP checkout. We want a lead. So this is just a small thing. I will not count registrants for masterclasses or webinars or VSLs as leads. I will never do that. I will only put complete registration. A lead is someone that goes to the next step. So they go to the book a strategy call. They go to the VIP checkout page. So I haven't. That's just my personal perspective. I don't know if you agree in that same capacity.
- [20:27]
B
So I look at it as the first one is an opt in, the second one is a marketing qualified lead. They're not sales qualified as of yet until actually a salesperson deems them okay. Are they ready, willing and able? Do they get it, want it, have the capacity to pay? Yeah. Really like going back to EOS here. That's a sales qualified lead. So I talked to the team about this all the time. They're like, yeah, we're getting so many leads. I'm like, we're not getting leads. We're getting opt in.
- [20:53]
A
We're getting subscribers.
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B
We're opt in subscribers. I don't care what it is. It's like we need X amount of subscribers to get X amount of marketing qualified leads, to get X amount of sales qualified leads to get X Amount of sales and how I do it in the industry standard is Conservatively it's a 25% reduction on each. So if you want to get one sale, you need four sales qualified leads. To get four sales qualified leads, you need 16 marketing qualified leads. That's a conservative estimate. So if you're in this space and you're using oh all a hundred percent of my marketing qualified leads are going to be sales qualified. Great, you're doing an amazing job, but.
- [21:40]
A
You'Re also a unicorn living in a loving an imaginary world. What 100% of market for us, we do bands.
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B
Rainbows are there.
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A
Yes, we do. Budget authority need timing. And for us the sales qualified lead is someone who's been talked to, there's a dialogue and we understand that they have at least two of the four bands.
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B
Yep, absolutely. Like there's an interaction with the salesperson. Now it used to happen for us, it used to happen on an email sort of qualifying sequence, but now it's like as soon as they fill out a form, they get a call. So and which is good. Like if you're dialog. But if you're filling out an application, you're a, you're now a lead.
- [22:19]
A
Well wait, if you're filling out an application, you're a lead.
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B
A market.
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A
If you're filling out a form, you.
- [22:25]
B
Are an opt in.
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A
You're a subscriber.
- [22:27]
B
Opt in. We're using the same terminology.
- [22:28]
A
We say subscriber.
- [22:30]
B
Thank God we see eye to eye on that. Not everybody does. So that, no, like in this whole discussion here, that that's part of strategy is getting clear on nomenclature, right?
- [22:41]
A
That we want to get clear on the nomenclature though too because we use. So there's like five different data sources you can do to go into your dataset within metal, right? Like you have your CRM Pixel with your CRM Pixel, your web Pixel messenger apps, if you're using apps and then offline data, all of those come in to feed your data set. So like with the web pixel, which is what most people are familiar with with meta or if you're using analytics, all that stuff, I'm like view content always on important pages. But like I don't want anything but view content on the initial landing page, complete registration on the thank you page, lead on the VIP checkout because that's like the add to cart. So if someone's showing marketing qualified interest, they're okay, they, they see what the price is. I'm going there. They've already showed need, timing and budget. Then we have purchase on the thank you page. The only other two links we have under important links in that first quadrant on the second column is the campaign brief. So every campaign brief we get from the client. Where are the assets? What is all this stuff? I'm just distilling it down into this campaign doc and then a link to our G drive folder with all of the assets.
- [23:46]
B
Got it. All right, so then the strat. So this is your strategy. So this is all pre.
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A
That's a part of it.
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B
There's still more before you spend any money. Like you're already, like, this is all you're doing. Okay, so next step is what? Talk to me.
- [23:59]
A
So again, we have the two columns we've talked about. First column, completely. Second column, top quadrant. Then the second quadrant in the. The second column. Like I was like, okay, so if you're looking on YouTube, you see, like you have two columns. Top one. We've talked about important links. The bottom one is totals. So this is actually updated post launch. So the client success manager, the one who's talking to the client, is checking on this campaign. And so we updated it yesterday. So we have a totals, right? So it says last updated, total number of leads. Right? We're leads at. We have 119 leads at $6.80. We're 14% to target. So that's something important. The totals. Like we are looking and checking on this because when you are a client and you're launching something, you're like, how's it doing? How's it doing? We need to make sure that because we established the budget and the targets when we keep checking and when we keep updating the strategy doc, how many like leads or complete registrations, all that type of stuff do we have? And what percentage are we to target? And then budget, how much have we spent of our budget to total allowed? So we're at 14 to target at 13 and a half percent of budget. So we are pacing really well. And then when we look at sales and you're.
- [25:08]
B
You're right in the middle of this. Like, this is actually a lot.
- [25:11]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [25:12]
B
This is update. Okay, very cool.
- [25:13]
A
Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Update it. So we're recording today is August 14th. Whenever this actually gets published, the update was August 13th. Then we have sales, the number. But then we, more importantly, we have conversion value. So when I checked this morning when I was like showing you some of the other stuff, I know that we have even more sales. But as of Yesterday, we were 73% to liquidation target. So we were $2,200 out of three. So again, 6K budget, 3,000. We said we wanted to self liquidate $3,000 just because I was like, yeah, I feel let's give us a challenge. We've already done this before. Let's give us a challenge to self liquidate the budget because I want to triple the budget for the next one. And so already at 13 and a half percent budget to total allowed. So we've spent $809 of the 6K. We are already with over $2,000 in sales, so we're 73% to liquidation target. So that's just like. So again we're talking about strategy, but I'm just saying this is a post launch of something that our client success managers are now taking the strategy doc. So like we do the strategy doc, the media buyers come in, there's a conversation, the media buyer pushes back and says, I'm in the weeds. I think this is the real, this is what we can do. Then the client success manager, once this whole strategy doc is complete, we'll give a loom to the client to say, I'm walking you through what our team has already agreed on. Here is our strategy for the campaign. Here's the links, here's our budget breakdown, which is the last part I need to talk about. Here's. And then here's what we're going to be updating to total so that the client knows like, awesome, my launch is in good hands. The strategy team, the media buyers and the client success managers are all on the same page. And that same page is here for you in a recorded loom to walk you through our plan. So the client's like, okay, I feel good, I'm spending more than I want to or whatever that is. I know what we're working towards and at any point I can say like, how are we to target for our registrations, our leads, for our budget and for our conversion value? So we're getting to our liquidation. So that's, that's the top half of our strategy. Are you following along?
- [27:21]
B
I am. What I'm actually curious about is like you're mid launch right now. What I, what I wanted to find out, which is this is very cool by the way, because this is how you actually track everything right in the heart of it, like as it's actually occurring. But I want to assume like when we talk about strategy, I always sort of think of, all right, what mixture of tools am I going to use in order, order to deploy the tactics, in order to achieve the goal the goal is like we already know what the budget is. 6k budget, it's a hundred k in revenue. Plus there's certain uncontrollables in there that you can't control as the person that's actually deploying the strategy.
- [28:00]
A
Right, right.
- [28:00]
B
You have to assume like the tool that you're using here is paid advertising and probably meta is my guess it is meta.
- [28:08]
A
We've done Google. It didn't work. We were just way more efficient into meta. So second half. So that's just the top numbers underneath. Then we have a budget breakdown which then goes to the distribution. So this is a paid ad strategy on meta only because when we did this before with the Google Ads campaign we just, it was way cheaper to get qualified leads on meta. So why would I spend 4x the money on Google when I wasn't seeing 4x the conversions from that would be.
- [28:35]
B
A question for any marketer. Why would you not use Google here? Why Wouldn't you use YouTube? Why wouldn't you use TikTok? It's because we both know that in the webinar world, for example, in this particular case this is where the expertise sort of comes in. It's like, oh, I can, I know exactly which tool I'm going to use in order to get you to that goal. And immediately this is the unspoken part of strategy that you and I are like of course you would use meta here. But that's a big part of the overall equation because we know webinars convert on meta if you have a good offer, if you have some kind of something that nobody else has or it's unique or you've got a this converts for E commerce.
- [29:17]
A
By the way, like webinars aren't exclusive to info products. We have E commerce clients that do webinars where they're just teaching you about like the reason you're using these E commerce. Oh yeah, by the way, I just.
- [29:27]
B
I like you're like, yeah, we have a lot of e commerce clients that do like Facebook lives and Instagram lives too. Like they'll do that. So which is sort of like a big webinar in a lot of cases. Yeah, no registration necessary. But it's promoting the products obviously. But it's also educating at the same time.
- [29:42]
A
So this works. We have clients doing webinars for service based businesses. We have clients. I mean info products is where people think of an assume of webinars. But like this same case study numbers, the same type of application applies. We've seen bigger success in E commerce just Being transparent because it's less competitive. We. And then we spend more with service based businesses. And that's more of a routine thing. But like we, we do this and so that's why I felt really confident with the target numbers. And when we go Strategy doc is created by strategist. Media buyer comes in, talks, there's a discussion. Then everyone's online client success manager presents this strategy doc to the client. Client's like yes, a hundred percent. And then we get into the day to day. So there, there will be changes because if one of the things in the budget breakdown which I'll get into now, which is this bottom half of our strategy doc, it's a start guidelines, it's not the locked in final solution. Because we can say like so in this budget breakdown we've got three meta campaigns that we've set up in our system. There's 11 campaigns that we typed launch. So we have this as awareness campaign as a $300 budget and it's called Campaign 3 for us because it's a video views campaign to which we put 5% of the budget. So in the strategy doc it says awareness campaigns 300 campaign 3,5% of the budget to push video views without a conversion objective but with the webinar funnel links. And the goal is to build audiences in our target markets. And then we have from that it's like, okay, great. That's where the strategy comes in. And then the media buyer will come in and just be like awesome. We're going to do a purchase lookalike audience for 2% in this region. In this region we're going to Here's a client's favorite list. We're going to launch that client's favorite list. So we're going to have more specifics. The strategist doesn't say the details of the who. It just says here's the target markets. And then the media buyer has agency to choose. This is the, these are the audiences I want to use this campaign's budget for. So that's the conversation piece. And then the strategist will make sure again, what does success look like for this campaign? So for this one we're saying a cost per link click is this and a cost per link click is that for two different markets that we're in.
- [31:42]
B
Okay. So the media buyer has the ability to be able to deploy the tactics based upon the overall strategy and the product. Knowledge of the account, subject matter, expertise in the area, you, you name it. So yes, yes, yes. And that's not purely dictated but it's like you're giving some percentages of budget sort of guidelines, general rules.
- [32:03]
A
Yeah. Based upon 5% for awareness for top of funnel. So that we're building a remarketing list for then our second campaign, which is our landing page conversions campaign. So this is a 50$400 budget. Right.
- [32:17]
B
What percentage that version campaign?
- [32:19]
A
90%.
- [32:20]
B
Okay, makes sense.
- [32:21]
A
So 90% is conversions. So we like, we're working on a ads calculator. So you could say like, here's my objectives, here's my ad spend and tell you how much goes to top of funnel, how much goes bottom funnel. This one, because it's such a smaller budget, we're saying 90% needs to go to our end goal, which is conversions, to make sure that we hit our targets. Right. So of the landing page campaigns, 5400. It's our campaign 7. We have 40% of the budget to this market and 50% of the budget to this market.
- [32:47]
B
Okay, makes sense.
- [32:48]
A
And then we'll say like, test put like inside. Like the strategist will say, like potentially test in key cities. Potentially do like, here's one test to like open the broad audience and have absolutely zero geographic. Like, let's just do a, like a small test of something like that. So then we say like the strategist will come up to this is 90% of the budget we want to split between these two audience locations. And then the media buyer goes in and is like, okay, great. Well, we're going to do this testing. We're going to do this one. We're going to do an audience in like New York City specifically, or like we're going to do these things so they fill in the details. It's like telling our media buyer come to this and wear business casual. But they're going to choose what to wear. At least they know the tone.
- [33:29]
B
Got it. And then I would imagine the remaining 5% is probably what retargeting.
- [33:34]
A
So the remaining 5% is a lead gen in app campaign. So that's just specifically because we. And that's our campaign 5. We want to do 5% of budget to test folks registering via an in app lead form. So that's just a test for us. We try really hard to make sure every campaign we do, we do 5% on a test untested thing just to see because we. And in it, it says we'd like to see if we can get cheaper leads to sign up and then tag them in our CRM and ESP to see if they show up more. So we want to make sure that we can look at in a postmortem of the live webinar, what percentage of people showed up and then did any of the. I mean we're only spending 305% for in app but we have seen historically cheaper leads. And by leads I mean opt ins for this webinar from in app. But we can ask more questions for the same price. So in theory we get more qualified because of the questions we ask at the same price of asking very little. And we just want to see would those show up. So that's a small test that we have. The only other thing I would say is for each campaign where we say like how we want to do it, we make sure in this lead gen in app it says the end card needs to make sure it promotes this VIP checkout page, right? So we're not saying go to the thank you page, we're saying go to the VIP checkout. The end card of the in app form is promoting the VIP checkout. And then in each campaign again we always say what does success look like for that campaign? For awareness we had a cost per link click for our conversions, right? We have a cost per complete registration with an additional cost per sale because we do have a VIP upsell. And then for the lead gen is just cost per lead because that's the for us it's complete registration but in app is as a lead. So then we have our targets that we set up and that's the strategy doc. Everyone comes together and the client success manager then does a loom, walks a client through and then helps provide confidence in what's happening after launch. Because you know how many times Ralph, it's like, well, what's going on with launch? What's going on launch? 90% of the time is is prepping and planning and we just need to be transparent to the client so they know they're in good hands.
- [35:36]
B
So the loom updates happen what every day kind of thing?
- [35:39]
A
Oh no, sorry. So the loom update just goes over to the strategy. We do the totals update so that where the client success manager who's not responsible for performance, she does the totals. Because when we do our postmortem she'll check in for herself because then she could signal like hey, this is awesome. We're 73% to liquidation date two days into this launch and we've only spent 13 and a half percent of the budget.
- [36:00]
B
Good. Is there a last question here before we go? Is there an email component? Email, SMS and or chatbot Component to this whole thing as a follow up within the campaign. No, no, no. As a part of the overall strategy. Like there's meta, there's paid ads. But then, okay, sure, sure, sure. Some people who register might not actually show up like those leads. Like, is there another underlying component to that?
- [36:22]
A
Yeah. Okay, so then that goes into like. So this was the paid ad strategy. We, we have, we do their AI chatbots. So we have all of the ads specifically trained and all of the pages specifically trained for anyone that has inquiries.
- [36:35]
B
Got it.
- [36:36]
A
Because part of the campaign brief, the funnel itself is like, yeah, we need to make sure they have these emails. We need to make sure we have this. Like that part. We provide a strategic insight. But again, it's like that's their webinar. And so we'll go in and say like, hey, let's make sure that we're emailing people to get proof of life. You know, like, are we texting them the day of like, hey, we're going live in four minutes. Hope to see you there. Are we pushing the post live? Like, there's all that stuff too that goes into making the webinar successful. But then that just becomes the point of where I said earlier. Your first three webinars, you're going to learn more and you're going to burn more in money, but that burnt money is going to be invested into your learning. So you burn to learn.
- [37:11]
B
Yeah, you burn, absolutely. Like it's, it is an education. If you've never done this sort of thing before, like your first campaign probably is not going to be successful. I'm just telling you that.
- [37:20]
A
Right, well, hold on, hold on. It's. Let's reset what is successful successfully that.
- [37:24]
B
You launched a campaign, you actually net profit on it. Like, but I get like, you know, that's so. Yes. So clarifying what success looks like, it depends really. But you're not going to make a million dollars on your first time you do this unless you've got maybe. I mean you could. Unless you've got. If you've got something that's just absolutely amazing. But usually the first couple of times through you are learning.
- [37:47]
A
And if you're spending a million, you should make a million at least. But like there's always. It depends. But I don't want to hurt someone.
- [37:53]
B
Who'S make as in like what you keep as opposed to spending a million earned is zero keep.
- [37:59]
A
So is zero keep. But a huge growing. Like you spent a million and you earned a million. You just got a bunch of new customers that I bet you can up.
- [38:06]
B
I would actually submit that if you do that, then your next one is going to be hugely successful because $1 million of learning is a lot of learning, even if you didn't make as in net profit, any money.
- [38:18]
A
Right.
- [38:18]
B
So it's setting that expectation for sure, a hundred percent. So no, this is tremendous because I think it really does go back to the goal, the budget, the target and then it's the tactics. And the tactics here is obviously is on the meta side. You know, once you establish all those things like that's all of those top things really sort of dictate what the strategy is going to be ultimately.
- [38:39]
A
Yeah.
- [38:40]
B
And yeah, that is how this whole thing works. We talk a lot about tactics and we've talked a lot about tactics here. You know, in this particular webinar case, which is like we said before, it's not just digital products, coaching, you see this all the time. E commerce services, you name it. It's like this.
- [38:57]
A
We've seen same success.
- [38:58]
B
Yeah, you're giving on. Think about a webinar strategy or a webinar. Like the webinar strategy is actually a strategy. Literally, like, that's the bigger strategy here. It's like, yeah, using a webinar to sell, you know, your e commerce products. That's something that not a lot of people are doing in the info space or the coaching space.
- [39:16]
A
But it also has to be done like. So I heard this yesterday. A client shared this. It's like you want to be able to sell enough. It's like a mini skirt, your webinar. It's got to be enough that like everything is covered. But like you can't. You can almost.
- [39:29]
B
Is that bikini marketing?
- [39:31]
A
But everything's good. My bikini. Bikini came from a football or a soccer stat where it's like, that's what I think is data. Data is amazing. Data is like a girl in a bikini. Everything you can see looks great, but it's really what you can't see that you want to know.
- [39:42]
B
Right? Right. Well, you're revealing 90% of everything. And exactly, you know, and I said this many times to many clients, it's like, you know, give away your free, your best free stuff in the newsfeed because they think your really good stuff is the stuff they have to pay for. So there, there is that too. You can give away a hundred percent of it. You just don't want to. Like what they're buying is the sequence of it and your expertise, your overall strategy in order to get them ultimately to their goal. Whatever that goal happens to, to be.
- [40:12]
A
So, but again, that's, that's the webinar strategy. That's why you do multiples. That's when you're saying like, the first one might flop in terms of net revenue, but the learnings you'll get. People that showed up, people that didn't show up. If you have any, like post webinar surveys that you do, like, hey, was it a bad time? Was it not an interesting offer? Like, you can learn so much. But I, like, I want to reframe because there's so many more that are probably listening to this that have never launched a webinar, self included. Ralph I, I've never done my own webinar and that kind of stuff. It's like there's so many other things that are happening that's going on at the same place. So even just doing one and doing one with paid budget behind is successful. It's just successful for different things. You have to know that you're like burning money to learn what you need to do so that eventually you can get to that 6k in ad spend leads to 6 figures in revenue.
- [41:04]
B
And that's awesome. So it'd be cool to get an update on how this thing actually plays out in the end because we're sort of mid, well, we're mid launch at this point in time. So strategy, probably the most important part of all of digital marketing, I would have to say we never really call it out as a specific thing, but it's, it flows through all of this. I mean, everything that we've talked about here really is strategy. The tactics are obviously the things that people get really excited about. But it's like, what do you want to do? Do you use a webinar? Do you use something else? Do you not use a webinar? Do you put video in the newsfeed and then get them to call, book a call after that? And it super qualified. That's all strategy too. So anyway, so I think the, the big takeaway is goal budget target dictates the strategy. And then from there there's a gazillion different ways in which you can skin the cat, so to speak.
- [41:54]
A
For sure, because if the budget was higher, I would put a smaller number on the conversion. So like we do everything from 70 to 95% of budget that we spent on conversion objective. But at a 6k budget, no, I mean your budget's too small, so you're just putting the bulk of it into conversions. But when you have less money spent on conversions, more money spent on the top of funnel like it's like those micro moments up top lead to macro reductions in your lower funnel things. But that's on another topic so stay tuned for future.
- [42:25]
B
That's a whole other strategy really.
- [42:27]
A
It is a whole other strategy.
- [42:28]
B
Well wherever you listen to a podcast, make sure that you do leave us a rating and review. We try and get this a podcast out to a more a more widerer or wider audience. Easy for me to say in English. So Liv's writing a review that really helps us to teach people how to do this stuff the right way which is the reason why we do this show here. Thank you so much Lauren E. Petrulo. And if you want to watch us over on our YouTube channel, you can do that at perpetual traffic.com forward/YouTube. So on behalf of my amazing co host Lauren Ebertrulo, ciao till next show. See ya.
- [43:04]
A
You've been listening to Perpetual Traffic.