John Moran (4:55)

John. Yeah.

Ralph Burns (4:56)

Happy Friday.

John Moran (4:57)

Yes. Happy Friday.

Ralph Burns (5:00)

I know we've been, we've been cooking up some, some crazy stuff in the performance kitchen here today, which we're going to be talking about yet again. More meta, more Andromeda. You know, the funny thing is we had a call with our new meta rep this week.

John Moran (5:15)

Yeah, I love those, man. Ange.

Ralph Burns (5:17)

And so we're like, yeah, we sort of feel like, you know, with the Andromeda update, there's a lot of things that are really changing and we're really excited about it. And he was like, the Andromeda update.

John Moran (5:31)

I know how many times I heard that. Well, my metarep didn't tell me and I'm like, ask them about it. And then they come back, they're like, well, they started to explain how it works. I'm like, yeah, I like, yeah, I heard it here first, folks. I mean that's basically what my, my, my whole spiel has been now for like the last four months.

Ralph Burns (5:49)

Yeah, there's some massive changes that have happened here and I don't know as if. Well, I think we actually talked about this on last show. All the changes that have happened. I, I think purposely they haven't announced them so that people can figure out a way around them. Maybe that's part of the strategy, but like the way around it is actually to sort of follow the guide and follow the rules and sort of do. Which is what we've been doing. The, the caveat to that is that, you know, you have discovered through some, you know, I think you had to kill a couple of people in order to get this content diversification. Was that it?

John Moran (6:24)

Yeah, I, I actually, I know I had a, I had to do some unspeakable things to. On the reps and after mouthwash, I came out with the 10 different content categories. Yep, that, that now we have. And so that was. Yeah, that was. I mean, that's actually kind of a big topic for today. About like, I have my first one that we've actually launched with that exact structure and set up the way that, you know, the way that the. It was explained to me. They also have a PMAX update though, too, so kind of cool stuff. PMAX is back in action now with imports, so new stuff. Exciting, exciting, fun stuff today.

Ralph Burns (6:56)

This is, this is interesting. Yeah, no, I mean, so basically the content diversification strategy is, is 10 different types of ads if you haven't been watching the show. And we'll show a screenshot of what those are at some point in time during today's show. But the product point is, is that you've tested this with really one ad type, with one of the test accounts and have gotten amazing results and then added in more of those types of different types of ads and then sort of reached like a next level of scale and using the strategies that really Meta hasn't given much guidance on, aside from just say hey, like throw everything in and we'll figure it out into the ad set. And well, there's actually a method behind that and we're starting to see some pretty insane results here on, on all these test accounts and tier 11 accounts and we're getting really good results, but unlike anything that I've ever seen. I've been doing this for 12, 15 years now. On the Meta side, I mean, I remember, you know, I started with the right hand rail ads way back when. Yeah, so yeah, yeah, so that was the thing way back when when everybody used the same like you know, stock footage of like this, you know, brown haired, darker skinned female for all their affiliate.

John Moran (8:16)

Oh my God. Yeah, the, I remembered that the, the 30 year old Burnett that was like.

Ralph Burns (8:21)

30 year old brunette. That's it.

John Moran (8:22)

Oh my God. I, I had a solar company I was marketing with and it was like Arizona, it was Arizona based company and it was like Arizona roofs, big solar panels, like light glaring off it, like, I mean everything looking good on Meta. And then we had this literally a female brunette laying down in a field, like upside down. So it's like her legs are up here, her head was down there and the sun shining on her and like that actually got more leads for solar. And true, it would have nothing to do with the house or even solar. It was just her laying in a field and like the sunshine, it's like absorb the sun. I was like, oh whatever, yeah, whatever. Whatever works. Yeah.

Ralph Burns (8:55)

The one that I used was like it was a newscaster from Europe and I forget what her name was and every affiliate used it and then I would send all that traffic to unfortunately what they refer to as farticles.

John Moran (9:10)

And.

Ralph Burns (9:11)

Flogs and I'm not even going to get into what all that is. But anyway it worked really, really well until Facebook shut down a lot of ad accounts. But anyway, that was many, many years ago. But like that's when it started. Now it is at a very different stage and it's all because of AI and it's machine learning and it's the investment that Meta has made into artificial intelligence which is starting to really bear fruit and make the job of a media buyer a hell of a lot easier. So yeah, yeah, I mean the guidelines here, I'm not saying anything's easy, easy.

John Moran (9:43)

But simpler structure but more complex reasons as to why. Yeah, exactly, exactly. So it's harder and they've got more difficult but simpler at the same time in different aspects. And what's funny too is like there's I, I know a lot of people who are still like I have a Mastermind with like 120 people and it's kind of like a closed group of, of of people I've been working with for, for a few years. And a lot of them will say like, hey John, I've actually found a way to include my exclusions. I'm like, well hold on a moment. When we look at what is being excluded and what is being spent on is actually different than what actually is happening. So as a fun, just quick example of this, if there are people who out are out there and I'm going to share screen, this is an example of something. This is a new customer campaign here. We're using first click Happy Imports. Obviously that's, that's what you pretty much have to do on Meta now. But you can even see that we have in the campaign in the account I have my existing customers, Shopify CRM and we also have our 180 day list. I mean everything is inside of here, inside of the audience exclusions, custom audience exclusions for Shopify CRM customers, all this, I mean basically everybody that we've ever had in Shopify and 180 days of recent purchases. So last six months of recent purchases and our entire list all excluded. And Meta's like, all right, cool. I only spent 20 cents this week on existing customers. Like okay, good job. See John, they're excluded. But if I'm like if we have a reach of 5, then how the hell did we convert 33 returning customers? And this is what those first click Happy imports get you the truth of as to what's going on. This is still out of 136 sales, 102 are new, 76 uncak and platform good. But do not believe for a second that the 20 cents and 5 reach and 10 impressions is real. It actually did get 33 returning purchasers. So yes, you can exclude and yes you can believe the lie the meta will tell you because Meta doesn't know the truth. So that's what's interesting is they're not purposely lying, they just don't have the data. So when we have the real data we can actually see that. Yes, it does either get ignored or doesn't see either. One is not an exclusion. It's a hope. So it's a very, very interesting test.

Ralph Burns (11:45)

Yeah, it certainly is. Well, we're going to get into more of that today. And that's not the police coming for me. That is fire trucks going by the apartment here in Brookline. So. So if you hear sirens in the background, I'm carried away and, and you know, and zip ties, then, you know something's really amiss. But anyways, holy crap. It's like 70 when fire trucks just went by. Yeah. You're killing me. Yeah, no, no smoke smelling this in this apartment here, which is good. So, yes, this is some exciting stuff here. And we have been rebroadcasting a lot of these over on perpetual traffic. And every time I go back and listen to them, like we rebroadcast1 from two weeks ago, I got even more excited just because. And it's. It's only been two weeks and now you have more discoveries even from then because you have our weekly call right before this call. So I sort of know what's coming at this point, but point is like, I've never seen a time like this inside Meta where stuff is so interesting and the results are so incredible for letting the algorithm do its work.

John Moran (12:50)

Yeah. Which is just setting it up the right way.

Ralph Burns (12:52)

And setting it up the right way. Exactly.

John Moran (12:55)

I know. And so I'm gonna, I'm gonna share with you. This is my first two campaigns that have been launched from scratch with Andromeda. One campaign, one ad set, all creative done with at least two to three variations of each creative content category. So us versus them, positioning test, face to camera, founder story, all that capi imports. With a caveat though, in Meta, the capi imports are coming from HubSpot as a source. HubSpot as a source is fairly poor as attribution. It's mainly kind of like last click or kind of what it can match, what it can see. It's. It's okay. So we're kind of blending a mix between just standard purchasers and what we can see being. Being at least imported. So that's the only caveat. But I like to share the results of that so far because I do believe that the creative is going to dictate the performance more so than anything that is included and excluded. Also, starting off with the correct creative is going to give us the best chance at even spends and even optimization. And we have two campaigns here and in the last Weekend day. So let's just call it like, you know, seven. So basically last eight days, because we actually started this on the 23rd and today's the first. But I can only go through the 23rd through the 30th, because with capi imports, it happens the day before, which is yesterday. So we're not going to count yesterday. So basically 90 of the data so far, you can see that it was not on before this. Basically we had other campaigns that were spending, but then we actually started to increase our ad spend with these two here. And the two campaigns that we have is a general and then one for healthcare. This is a company that has a very amazing offer where anybody can take all of their prerequisites online for a very low cost. It transfers through all of the colleges in the United States. So it's a great company, great product, great service, great offer, et cetera. Now, what we're doing, and I'll, I'll show the results the last four days compared to the previous four days. So basically the day of the launch to the day, the last capi import that we know, pending anything that happened yesterday has not been imported or seen yet today.

Ralph Burns (15:05)

So.

John Moran (15:05)

So we can see that we actually have a 26% drop in spend on both. This was actually due to Meta's rejections of our ads. We are talking about college credits, it thought we're talking about credit cards and credit debt. So we got, we got hit with financial services, but that's neither here nor there. But if we do just as an example to kind of share with you the overall test, if you look at the actual spend for each one of these things, it's just, we just kind of lost it here. So nothing too bad, but that was the only blip in this test that was not kind of like perfect that and also the capi import source. Anyway, what we're seeing now is we launched it, we let it go, we do not touch it, we allow it to identify its, its proper traffic per ad and then building the sequence for all of them. So essentially it's going to fishbone out. If you think about the ads in a level, I'll just stop sharing screen. The fishbone effect is kind of what I'm calling it. You have all of your creative and then it's going to go, it's going to go outwards by targeting. So there's top funnel, there's bottom of the funnel, there's middle of the funnel, and, and it's hitting different audiences and what it's going to Try to do is bring them in and push them through. That's how Andromeda kind of works.

Ralph Burns (16:05)

Yeah.

John Moran (16:06)

So by launching that that way I was looking at a few different things. One, how is it optimizing both in the general campaign and the healthcare and for example the general campaign and the healthcare both have overlapping foundational content. Founder story found in both us versus them about our company found in both us versus going to regular community college found in both. Only one is optimizing for a specific industry. We have 10 more industries to go so this could be a larger build out over a course of time. Got it. The spend has dropped 26% 25%. However the cost per result has also dropped 56% in 65%. So the first last four days compared to the first four days we are approximately, you know, kind of like a hundred ish percent better.

Ralph Burns (16:46)

We are just in four like that's in eight days total. Like before and after in four days. Like that's, that's the algorithm taking effect and, and doing what you want it to be doing.

John Moran (16:56)

Exactly. We want this to kind of find its way. What's interesting about this is we had like a 225 CAC target and we could say that we're above target 374 but because this is the actual purchases and this is what was matched in the HubSpot and cappy imported I do believe that we are probably somewhere in between that this is probably over, over attributed. And this is. We already, I can guarantee it. We've already proved it under attributed. So that's what's kind of interesting is we, we know that there's things that we are missing in between there. But if we just look at what was all sales, we have 166 sales total. So 2000 20,969 divided by 166. $126. We, we needed to be at 225 or below. So we're $100 cheaper than where we needed to be in the first eight days. What's interesting about this though is the spend allocation. I really really love the spend allocation. We have one campaign, one asset on CBO because it has to be.

Ralph Burns (17:46)

And look at, just look at how simple that is.

John Moran (17:48)

Very cool.

Ralph Burns (17:49)

Campaigns. One ad set. 25 ads in each one. Thereabouts.

John Moran (17:54)

Yeah. Because we have about three versions of eight different pieces. We're not doing AI and we're not doing like our. What's it called? Like the face to camera is kind of like variations of other, of other products and services. So we're, we're, we're still building creative. This is just kind of what we were able to piece together with existing data. Now I'll share with you some kind.

Ralph Burns (18:11)

Of cool us versus them. You get the product demo, you got the founder story. You got some UGC like you got that.

John Moran (18:17)

Yeah. Face to camera feature benefits founder story positioning test. Us vs them UGC Frequently asked questions. More positioning, product demos. I mean all of these testimonials, all of these are involved and what we see is our. Yep. And our spend allocation looks really good. 3700-3000-2000-1800, 1500, 1300, 1200, a thousand. All of the ads in this ad set sorting, descending are getting a very. Even though it's still descending, which it always will. But it's not like the first two ads have 10 grand. The rest have 50 bucks, which typically happens when you don't have good content diversification. Y what we're also seeing is we have some creative that we're actually, we basically just took the website. This is my, this is my, my, my tinfoil hat kind of not, I guess it wouldn't even say tinfoil hat, but what I, I have actually a, a picture of that might piss a lot of people off here. So my apologies. I believe that who we are as consumers have now turned into what I call the Wally fat people. When I say Wally fat people, well.

Ralph Burns (19:17)

All I say is America right there.

John Moran (19:19)

Well, we are, we're feed based consumers now. Yes, we are. I don't want to click. I have my big go. My hand, my digital currency is now a click because I'm feed based. So because I have YouTube feeds, Instagram feeds, meta feeds, news feeds, everything is, is being fed to us. We are, we're living in a feed driven world. So for me to entice you with an ad, get you to click and go to learn, doesn't really happen too much anymore. It's now just you show me and if I like it, I'll lift my arm and click it. You know, I'll put down my big open, I'll click it. That's the Wally fat people thing. So knowing that, that was kind of my thought process there. Yeah, I try to make it fun. What we did, we basically made it's reality.

Ralph Burns (19:56)

That's the way that it is. We have come that way.

John Moran (19:59)

It is, we are now the Wally fat people. So what I did is said, well what if we had a video that was literally like this part here is like it's, it's basically someone on the website just clicking the button to see how much you could save on how many credits. So, so this is basically we've taken the interactive website and put it in front of you rather than behind the click. It's now before the click.

Ralph Burns (20:20)

That's so cool.

John Moran (20:21)

So the way that we're doing this and then obviously we have like a founder story. This is Gemini Matt that is, is you know, explaining the kind of the founding of the company positioning test. A lot of this you're going to see is actually kind of rehashed images on our site.

Ralph Burns (20:34)

Yeah.

John Moran (20:34)

So can we take our website basically just give it to you in feed form because that's how you want to consume content.

Ralph Burns (20:40)

This is cool. Oh, Lauren is getting pissed at you right now. Grab stuff off the website, turn it into.

John Moran (20:47)

Right. So that's kind of it. Like, so we even have like our, you know, you're looking@ like UGC like obviously this is good stuff. And then it's also on the website of showing all the courses and so I'm just putting the website in front of you. That's kind of the theory there.

Ralph Burns (21:00)

Yeah.

John Moran (21:00)

So because we are moving into the wally fat people type of marketing, we have to take into consideration it's no longer, you know, hook and pain point, get the click, educate. That's still obviously there. But now when they get the hook and they get the click and they educate, it needs to mirror what they've already been seeing in the feedback.

Ralph Burns (21:17)

Yeah.

John Moran (21:18)

So this is developing brand ability and congruency. So that's kind of the way that the delivery systems are working now.

Ralph Burns (21:23)

Yeah, it's a, it's an interesting point here and I was talking to the guy that one of the, one of the groups that I consult with. But anyway we were talking about their business and like well how do you take it to the next level? And it's like well you know, we're going to do these lead magnets, we're going to get on the click and do opt ins. I'm like wait a second. That is kind of the old way of doing things. Like you need to put in the news feed what you are. I had another client this week who's been with us for seven years. I think it's like take all your best stuff, put it in the newsfeed during the those 10 different formats and then educate the consumer. You're paying for that view but you're not getting the click which is fine but you're still making an impression Right. So because of Wally, fat people, like that's how people consume now. They don't want to have to click. I don't want to have to opt in and get, you know, put my name and my email in and click off this. I'm so lazy. So we're just catering to that to a certain degree, like it's human psychology. But it's also we are all feed based and I think meta understands it too.

John Moran (22:22)

Yeah, that's exactly right. And I think meta's they're basically saying like, hey, people are educating themselves with the feed. Like if you give us all of your content diversification, I can educate these people. Feed related. Right. Okay, this makes sense. And so if you have two similar pieces of content, then it's just not going to work. And what's cool about this though is because the content is doing the targeting. Some things that I'm not doing, a normal media buyer would do is look at this and say, okay, I've spent 30 seconds, $700, I only have one customer. I have a 3700 cost per customer. Oh no, that's not, not really. We have to take this in consideration where if this spend is still being spent on it, we do not touch it. That was my rule. I said if it's above goal, which of I guess below goal. If it's not in line with the goal then and the spend is decreasing, that means it's a, it's a. Hey, pause this ad. If the ad spend is still running fairly rampant, we leave it on because this is still identifying new users. This could be my loss leader. Well, check this out. If I flip campaign, that same one here is actually getting. It's our second best performing ad. We have our, we have the second highest amount of customers from that and the CPA is actually only about $100 more than the average instead of 5,000 or $4,000 more than the average. So why is that? Well, is this a good video? Yes. Are they being found, locked in and converted in the other campaign? Maybe not. Are they in this campaign? Maybe so. So we sort of have to look at our content diversification where if we're looking at two campaigns and two ad sets like these two faces to camera have wildly different results, but it's a same audience that has the same kind of goal in mind and it's just working in one campaign but not the other one. All this tells me is that this is still our loss leader. They just may be clicked or attributed here. Okay, so we have to think about it differently. We have to definitely look at like the progress of the campaign's performance and say is this progressing where I want? Well, 100 more, 100% more new customers for 65% less customers while saving three grand is looking like it's optimizing pretty well to me. So we're going to leave this scope and we're going to continually try to make it better and better and better as we iterate the content. So now we're just swapping out ugc, swapping out face to camera, swapping out founder stories. Swapping. Exactly. We're trying to make each of these portions of the funnel better.

Ralph Burns (24:29)

So that really is in essence like a product demo because you're sort of showing them how the product sort of kind of works. Like how would you categorize that one? The slider, top middle. Okay, so that's top middle funnel. But it's not, it's getting the most spend. It's obviously you're looking at this at an ad set level, your global ncac, not just the individual ads specifically. But if you do see that one particular ad is decreasing in reach, that's when you shut it off. Because I know we did, we did the Pet Wellness Direct example before just sort of giving people guidelines on when you should shut stuff off. Because the old school world of thinking is like oh my God, it's getting all this spend and I have no conversions on it. Well think about this differently. Like it's contributing or it's contributing not attributing your words, you know, to the overall health of the entire campaign and the business.

John Moran (25:20)

So exactly what we're seeing too is, is we give it more time. I was, I, I, I don't mean to rush. I want to make sure by 2:15 I can get at least the next 5 minutes my PMAX update before we go into Q and A. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. So I just want to make, no, I just want to make sure I can, I can get that. But you're, you're 100% right. The, you can see this example here. Did I get customers? Yes, I got two customers, one customer here and then it kind of stopped. Well did the spend. Dr. Did. Is it out of goal? Yes, it is. This one is on the list of needing to be reiterated. It already chose the other feature and benefit. I already have a better performing feature and benefit. This one needs to be redone. It's already actually be this performance. We have to give this time because it doesn't mean that it won't come back. But what we're looking at is the swings. Some are 70% up, some are 70% down, some are 30% down, some are 50% up. It's still finding its footing, it's still testing and iterating. So while this is still being flip flopped back and forth, we're just hanging tight. We will find that the meter will ping in the red line on some ads and then it will fall off a cliff on the other ones. And those that are pinging in the red line in ad spend that gets saved, the ones that are being ignored get iterated. Very, very simple process now.

Ralph Burns (26:24)

Yeah. And this is for education products, this is for digital products. Correct.

John Moran (26:28)

Like that's for digital. Yeah, it's, it's, yeah, digital product. Sassy. Exactly.

Ralph Burns (26:32)

Perfect. So like the same thing and we've used E commerce examples primarily on this show in the last three, four months. This is obviously a completely different animal. Same, same rules apply. Amazing. On to pmax.

John Moran (26:45)

So everyone knows that I really like Capi Imports. If you haven't heard me say this 16 times on this, on this video already. We, we started to use the Capi Imports in this company here for new customers and we actually started on July 11th. We had our own. We launched new Performance Max and I launched Performance Max. That was feed only new customer only Brand terms excluded. 180 days of website traffic and last since 2024. Customer lists excluded. Now did it work? Kind of. It's still getting some existing customers at a ratio of 121 and 70. So yes, PMAX does go warm. We absolutely know that to be true. This is way warmer than our standard shopping. Our standard shopping is like 120 and 10. This is 120 and 70 and they are technically all ad event type. These are all click based. Like we can see we have one conversion engage view448 clickbase. So you can see obviously this is all click. So it's all click. It's all new customers. It will still get existing customers but since it's non brand, that's happy retention. Cool. That's the cream on top that we don't pay for.

Ralph Burns (27:50)

All right, so I hope you enjoyed this week's episode. Make sure that if you listen to this and you got sort of the general idea, make sure you go over to our, our YouTube channel to watch this. You can see it obviously over on tier11.com forward/YouTube. But better yet go over to perpetualtraffic.com YouTube. You'll see it right there in the show. Notes on perpetualtraffic.com but super important for you to hear it and then watch it. Send this to your team if you're a Director of Marketing or VP of Marketing. Like I said before, if you want our help, head on over to tiereleven.com forward/apply. We're deploying this in all kinds of different businesses right now. This content diversification strategy is absolutely game changing and there's a lot of variations to it which we're doing. Like John is obviously showing his variation of it, but that's one way in which to do it. We're also figuring out different ways for our individual team members to do it as well. And I suggest that you send this off to your team, have them learn and then figure out the best way to deploy those strategies as well as to improve upon it because this is evolving as we speak here. There is no hard and fast black and white riddles here on how to use the new Meta. Andromeda Update is how we're calling it, but really more specifically Advantage plus Sales over on Meta. So wherever you listen to podcast, make sure you leave us a rating and review. It helps us get this show out to a wider audience, teach people how to do this stuff the right way. And of course all the show notes, everything that we mentioned here on this week's show is over@perpetualtraffic.com so on behalf of my amazing Not Here co host Lauren E. Petrulo till next show, see you.