Money Model Case Study: 52.7% Increase in Total Subscribers in 6 Months

Summary

Perpetual Traffic Podcast – Episode Summary

Money Model Case Study: 52.7% Increase in Total Subscribers in 6 Months

Date: September 26, 2025
Hosts: Ralph Burns (Tier 11) & Lauren Petrullo (Mongoose Media)
[Skip introductory sponsorship ad. Core episode begins at 01:01]

---

Episode Theme & Purpose

Overview:
Ralph Burns and Lauren Petrullo deliver an in-depth, practical breakdown of a real-world membership site case study. The episode spotlights the strategies, creative solutions, and data-driven optimization steps behind a staggering 52.7% increase in total subscribers within just six months. The discussion centers around the levers that unlock continuity-based (recurring revenue) business models, especially for companies that blend memberships, ecommerce, and community engagement.
Purpose:
To provide agency-tested, actionable insights on how recurring revenue, regional personalization, and clear data tracking can unlock explosive growth—for membership sites, creators, and ecommerce businesses alike.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Memberships: Why Community Matters Most

• Signup v. Retention:
  Lauren highlights a critical distinction—people don’t join for community, but they stay for it.
  • "People don't sign up for memberships because of community. They stay in memberships because of the community." (01:01 – Lauren Petrullo)

2. The Case Study: Blending Membership, Ecommerce, and Status

• Business Model:
  • Membership at the core (majority of revenue)
  • Ecommerce as a secondary, member-exclusive benefit, leveraging a Shopify store (09:28–10:16)
  • App and software for added value and stickiness (21:00+)
  • “Status” as a hidden driver—exclusive product access for members only
• Model Takeaway:
  • Layering offers: core recurring service + exclusive products
  • Opportunity for creators: monetize expertise, not just content

3. Challenge: Stalled Growth Due to Market Saturation

• Client’s Perception:
  • They believed they had reached market saturation—everyone in their niche had already been reached (19:39 – 20:39).
• Reality:
  • Untapped audiences remained, especially via refined targeting and regionalization.

4. Data-Driven Breakthroughs

• Step 1: NCAC Analysis
  • Used Net Cost to Acquire Customer (NCAC) as key tracking and success metric.
  • Broke down NCAC by state and even region to uncover profitable markets (27:26–29:16).
• Step 2: Geographic & Hyper-Local Targeting
  • Transitioned from broad national campaigns to hyper-localized ads and offers.
  • Used "landmark" visuals, regional slang, and “Mad Men era” tactics to boost relevance (31:04–33:32).
    • “We actually shot footage of bodies of water specific to that locale… even in the ad copy using local lingo. That’s next-level targeting.” (31:20–32:21 – Ralph Burns)
• Step 3: Creative Hooks & Personalization
  • Isolated hooks that speak to the #1 customer pain point in each region.
    • Example: Ad theme “where to find X” (36:19–36:49).
  • Integrated those hooks with app demos and founder-to-camera videos, all tailored locally.

5. Operational Improvements

• Segmentation Issues Solved:
  • Pre-engagement, they struggled to separate new prospects from current members in ad targeting—leading to high-frequency, low-effectiveness campaigns (22:13–25:40).
  • Installed Tier 11’s data suite to clarify and segment new vs. existing customers.
• Seasonality & Regional Demand:
  • Recognized seasonal spikes (e.g., summer boom) and adapted strategy to maximize returns during peak months (11:45–12:16).

6. Spectacular Results—Supported by Data

• Quantitative Gains: (36:49–39:16)
  • 52.7% year-over-year increase in active subscribers
  • 19.7% increase in web subscribers (even with a price hike)
  • 156% increase in paid app subscribers
  • Membership went from approx. 3,000 to nearly 10,000 active subscribers (38:29)
    • Best revenue in company history after years of flat growth
  • Retention: Subscribers stay an average of 3–4 years

“The best revenue that they've ever had in the ten-year history of the company… just came out of nowhere.” (39:40 – Ralph Burns)

7. Actionable Playbook For Listeners

• Recurring Revenue Is Gold:
  • “Continuity, MRR (monthly recurring revenue)—it's the best business model. These guys have just figured it out.” (15:00 – Ralph Burns)
• Hyper-Localization Wins:
  • Use regional creative, visuals, and dialect in ads to drive new member acquisition.
• Know Your Numbers:
  • Determine your NCAC, break it down geographically, and double down where your best customers lurk.
  • “If you don’t know your numbers, you have no numbers to know.” (30:12 – Lauren Petrullo)
• Quiz Funnels Grow Community:
  • Using short quiz funnels (e.g., “Which type of [interest] are you?”) to personalize onboarding, segment audiences, and boost conversions (45:14–46:22).

8. Membership + Ecommerce Hybrid: Ideas for Your Business

• For Ecommerce Brands:
  • Think “subscribe & save,” auto-replenish, and value-add content/memberships.
  • Leverage status, community, or content for recurring revenue (46:54–51:44).
• Example:
  • “A brand in Australia sells micro bikinis with a membership portal that pays credits for user-generated content… Now the membership drives a million a month.” (46:54–47:30 – Lauren Petrullo)
• The Bottom Line:
  • “Continuity is killer… Think about a way in which to get your customers, get your clients more sticky.” (51:44–51:54 – Ralph Burns)

---

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Retention:

  “People don't sign up for memberships because of community. They stay in memberships because of the community.”
  — Lauren Petrullo (01:01)

• On Recurring Revenue:

  “Continuity, MRR—it's the best business model. These guys have just figured it out.”
  — Ralph Burns (15:00)

• On Audience Identification:

  “They felt… we've targeted everybody in the US who could buy our stuff. We're like, you've barely scratched the surface.”
  — Ralph Burns (19:57)

• On Granular Targeting:

  “We actually shot footage of bodies of water specific to that locale… even in the ad copy using local lingo. That’s next-level targeting.”
  — Ralph Burns (31:20–32:21)

• On Not Knowing Your Numbers:

  “If you don’t know your numbers, you have no numbers to know. You don’t have a business.”
  — Lauren Petrullo (30:12)

• On Marketing Relevance:

  “If you talk to everyone, no one is listening. I’m being intentional, personalizing my campaign… That’s where you win in the world of AI.”
  — Lauren Petrullo (32:55)

• On Results:

  “The best revenue that they've ever had in the ten-year history of the company… just came out of nowhere.”
  — Ralph Burns (39:40)

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Membership model overview – 01:01–03:54
• Case study business breakdown – 09:03–12:57
• Data challenges and segmentation issues – 22:13–25:58
• Granular, regional targeting deep-dive – 27:26–33:32
• Creative strategies and hooks – 36:19–36:49
• Results: explosive subscriber and revenue growth – 36:49–39:16
• Membership + ecommerce models for other businesses – 46:54–51:44

---

Tone & Style

The tone is energetic, practical, and accessible—with plenty of good-natured banter and real agency war stories. Lauren and Ralph use humor, pop-culture references, and plain language to keep actionable advice entertaining and relatable. They balance colleague-level chat (with playful jabs) with authoritative, to-the-point explanations. No fluff; lots of step-by-step, battle-tested strategies and examples.

---

Takeaways

• Recurring revenue/continuity should be at the center of your growth model wherever possible.
• Granular, localized targeting—down to geography and dialect—yields dramatically better marketing results.
• Data is critical: you must know your NCAC, segment your audience, and identify profitable pockets.
• Membership and ecommerce can—and should—be blended for greater stickiness and LTV.
• Creative and personalized onboarding (like quiz funnels) increase engagement and conversion.
• No matter your business, continuity and community = growth.

---

For full resources and visual aids from this episode, visit perpetualtraffic.com/YouTube.

Transcript

[Ralph Burns]

Hey, Black Friday and Cyber Monday are coming fast. In fact, they are right around the corner. And the brands that win big are the ones who show up with the right creative. So for an extremely limited time, we're offering a special tier 11 BFCM holiday creative package to seven lucky businesses. Gives you creative paid assets built to convert, including UGC videos with multiple hooks, polished static images and cut downs ready for ads. We don't do guesswork. Every piece is backed by data and designed to drive real performance for your business. But spots are extremely limited. In fact, we're only taking on seven projects. So you have to act fast because you don't want to be scrambling come November. So head on over to tier11.com BFCM to lock in your package. And oh by the way, this offer ends October 1st. Don't delay. Have the best Black Friday Cyber Monday your brand has ever had by getting one of these creative packages [e-mail] BFCM.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

People don't sign up for memberships because of community. They stay in memberships because of the community. Which is why we're going to go.

[Ralph Burns]

Through a case study here today. A membership site business Active subscribers going from about 3,000 to nearing 10,000. So you're listening to Perpetual Traffic. All right, I get it. You're a small business, you're a startup, you're a lean team. Everyone's doing dozens of different things and you got to move fast and be smart to compete with the big guys and the big gals. You've seen their endless resources. You know they are power. They have more money than you, but you can level the playing field and all their data scientists and their massive teams. Finally, the secret weapon that you have is Active Campaign AI. The ActiveCampaign AI suite is built exactly for you. The small business, the startup, the lean teen. It's the secret weapon that saves the average user up to 13 hours a week. Just think of what you could do with 13 hours a week. It's not about saving time on writing. It's about getting predictive insights that used to be out of your reach. From predicting which deals are most likely to close to generating on brand content in seconds. From the AI brand kit, ActiveCampaign puts enterprise level capabilities in your hands. Compete smarter, not harder. Discover the power of autonomous marketing with ActiveCampaign. Go to activecampaign.com to get started today. Hello and welcome to the Perpetual Traffic Podcast. This is your host, Ralph burns, founder and CEO of Tier11, alongside my incredibly amazing, smart, funny, don't stop Just keep going. Co host Lauren. Oh, wait a second. That's your line. Lauren E. Petrulo, founder of Mongoose Media.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

That's me. Hi. All those nice compliments I'll take up. That's okay. You can say my name if you add a bunch of compliments first. That's okay.

[Ralph Burns]

I know. Well, last time I called you a genius and you, you blushed and you broke out laughing. So, like, that's my goal in the intro is to, like, throw in something that throws you off. Anyway, so glad you joined us here today. If you are a director of marketing, VP of marketing, you run your own business. You're doing your marketing. This is the show for you. This is where we teach you how to do marketing the right way. In the age of all the new algorithm updates and using metrics that matter and growth that scales, that's what this whole thing is about. It's not traffic. It's erroneously called perpetual traffic, by the way, Loreni Petrillo. It's really. It's about how we grow businesses. And traffic is a part of that.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

Sure. So perpetual traffic on name. Perpetual growth in body.

[Ralph Burns]

Exact spirit. Exactly.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

After we record this episode, we will be side by side.

[Ralph Burns]

Side by side together. Yeah.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

Being able to poke each other in the face.

[Ralph Burns]

That's right. That's right. You're going to wear some, like, really high heels. So you're like nine feet tall, right?

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

I can.

[Ralph Burns]

You can. I think you should. The highest heels you can possibly find. I'll, like, wear my lowest shoes. Would be funny. You'll be like 7ft tall. I'll be like 5 foot 8. The point is, yes, we are going to be together by the time this actually records. It's too late for you to sign up for where we're going to be, but we've already talked about it with Qasem. So we're going to be at Growth Hacking Live out in San Diego, which is going to be a lot of fun. And yeah, you and I are on that panel and I don't even know what we're discussing at this point. Probably something relating to digital marketing is my guess, because they've done such a good job of letting us know what we're going to talk about.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

Look, anyway, at the end of the day, it's going to be relevant to what the audience is going to be. And I think there's going to be opportunities because it's a thousand people, it's rather intimate. It's big type of groups, but it's still a large size and so in that like what the discussions are, I believe there's been a pre survey that went out to get some insight of what people are looking for. So it's a, like a. What's working now and like a current state of the union of what we see having the chance to work alongside a lot of different brands and across different verticals. So my assumption is going to be like a state of the union. How is AI coming to help you or harm your business and what are we doing that's working now?

[Ralph Burns]

I can't imagine that AI will be discussed. Like how is that even a possibility? Of course AI will be discussed. Anyway, we want to get into something that's non AI related because there's nothing. Well, I guess it does have something to do with AI.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

I was like just the way AI was not involved.

[Ralph Burns]

Yeah, yeah, AI was involved. And we talked about this on our last show, which we never got to the case study. But today we're actually going to get to a. We're going to go through a case study here today for a membership site. Business. Fabulous business run by super smart guys.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

Smartest.

[Ralph Burns]

I've the smartest.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

Not biased at all. It's not like one of them is on this conversation.

[Ralph Burns]

The guy who runs the marketing now, I don't know quite as well, but the guy who founded the company when we were in a mastermind together, he won Wicked smart. More than Kassam ever did.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

I feel like he claimed that he wanted more than anyone ever.

[Ralph Burns]

No, he didn't. Oh, this guy wanted more because I was there. And Kasim is known is prone to hyperbole. I bet you he means he stretches the truth.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

I would say. I bet you it's true to the percentage of meetings he attended. He probably won more out of the meetings he attended than anyone else. Like his ratio.

[Ralph Burns]

Yeah.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

The law of averages is probably making his statement true for him, but condensed to a finite time frame.

[Ralph Burns]

Yeah, well, there was two other guys, Kim. Like I. I wasn't there when Kim supposedly won all of them, but he would send me the picture of like the trophy of winning Wicked smart.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

Yeah.

[Ralph Burns]

Always, always, always, always.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

I've got my trophy, I've got my boots.

[Ralph Burns]

I've never won.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

One time they didn't have a trophy. One year they had like a prize and I've got. Oh, you know what? I'll show you that prize. I will bring that prize.

[Ralph Burns]

Bring the prize to San Diego. So we're doing like live shows next week.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

We are.

[Ralph Burns]

I'm pretty excited about. Yeah, we've got our. We've got our mobile mics. You've got your backup mic. Now break it. Don't worry, I'll bring an extra mic. Anyway, we're going to do a live show next week. Couple of live shows. Maybe we even pummel in some of the. Some of the guests. Maybe a guest or two from the. The actual show itself.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

Yeah.

[Ralph Burns]

Depending on if they're good. They have to, you know, meet our strict stringent criteria here at Perpetual Traffic.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

But be kind and have proof of what they've done so they're not just flaunting what they've learned.

[Ralph Burns]

Yeah, no shills, no bullshit, all that. So anyway, that's what we try and do here every single week, twice a week. And today is no exception because this is an actual case study. You definitely want to watch this [e-mail] YouTube. It is going to be blurred out. The names, images, likeness. Which is too bad because the guy that appears in the video is like one of my favorite guys.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

Such a good.

[Ralph Burns]

I know. Like he's. He's the best. He's just. And I don't know. He better listen to this episode. Like we won't say what the name of the book company is but anyway, membership site, great business plus an E commerce store. So the interesting model with this and they're obviously they're a tier 11 client. That's why we have a case study here because we talk about the stuff that we actually do as opposed to other podcasts where they hire other agencies and then they, you know, they claim they know what they're doing.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

You have someone in mind when you said that?

[Ralph Burns]

No, I don't. Not at all. Not at all.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

Anyway, YouTube to see how bad he is at lying right now.

[Ralph Burns]

Yeah, it's terrible. I'm terrible liar. Which is good. My wife always says that. The point is is that they have a very interesting business is a membership site plus an E commerce brand. So it's continuity. They got it is in a recreation industry. So we're going to blur all this out. But then they sell.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

What a jeez, Ralph. What a jeez.

[Ralph Burns]

It's a brilliant model because they come, they get the members in and then they sell them physical products through their store exclusive to the members. So they're shopify store. So it's a combination membership site and.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

E commerce and they're selling status then. Because if you have exclusive access to something, they're winning on status.

[Ralph Burns]

Oh yeah.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

Because only to have accessibility.

[Ralph Burns]

Yep.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

You have to pay up front. It's a membership club in the sense of a way a membership really should be done. It's not just getting access information, it's getting access to the creme de la creme products.

[Ralph Burns]

Yeah, creme de la creme and good discounts and stuff that other people in this recreational space don't get. So. All right, so if you are listening.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

Actually, is it like the Costco then? So like the Costco of this recreational sport?

[Ralph Burns]

Well, I would say no because the membership site is the majority of the revenue for the business. Like that's what they want. The community, like they're selling the community. The E commerce is kind of a backend add on.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

Got it, got it.

[Ralph Burns]

So for example, like we're doing a conversion rate optimization, you know, audit for them right now. And we originally did it on their E Commerce store. Like no, no, we don't want that. But we want you guys to tell us how to convert better on our membership site because that's the majority of our business. So anyway, so they got two conversion rate optimization sort of, you know, analyses. Anyway, the point is, is like their E commerce store is a Shopify store, which is great. So if you do have a membership site, like this is a great model for you to think of. Like, what else can you sell to your people? Like what affiliate. Maybe it's an affiliate stuff. Like I'm sure they sell plenty of affiliate things as well, like whether it's through Amazon or what have you. But it's a brilliant model. But the big thing is that they want to help, you know, this particular recreational activity enthusiasts, shall we say, to do that job even better.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

So would you say that that's a creator LED brand then? So it's a creator forward company that has both membership and E commerce products then. So that if someone's listening and they are a creator looking to expand their revenue channels, the, the opportunities of having a great membership program where you get content and access to products could be.

[Ralph Burns]

I mean, if you have like a subject matter expertise, for sure. Like I have a very good friend of mine on Cape Cod who like, that's actually my first business partner and he started a site where he has 2000 members paying him $15 a month because he's an expert saltwater fishermen on Cape Cod.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

Yeah. And he said it increases, right?

[Ralph Burns]

Yeah, it's a great, it's a great model. It's like so like this is what.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

He does summer, he has like increased like 2x.

[Ralph Burns]

Yeah. So his membership I believe, doubles in the summertime and then they drop off in the fall. And then, like, that's because that's when everyone's, like, on Cape Cod, like, fishing for stripers. That's what you fish for when you come to Cape Cod there, Lauren, you know, you got to come, you know, fish for stripers. Yeah, my. My next turn is. Yeah, stripers are running, Ralph. I'm going to get them anyway.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

I can say is if you got me a red stripe and I have the beer while someone else fishes.

[Ralph Burns]

I know, I know. That's. That's the kind of striper that I. That I go after. But anyway, so he does that and a membership site, and then he has all these affiliate partnerships with all these other sorts of things. So anyway, trying to keep things on track here.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

You just said striper, and it sounded like stripper. That's the type of stripper I go after. But I was. No, you said striper. Okay, sorry.

[Ralph Burns]

You know, your mind is always, like, in the gutter anyway, so it's like, whatever.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

Someone else heard the same thing that I did.

[Ralph Burns]

I don't know. We'll have to go back to the tape. Anyway, I think I said striper. I might have said stripper. But either way, you know, you know, here, we're keeping it real here on perpetual traffic. So if you're listening to this, make sure that you head on over to perpetualtraffic.com YouTube and check out today's case study. We are not going to put this into a download or a freebie or anything like that. You can take screenshots, use it as you see fit. Of course, a lot of this is going to be blurred out according, including the name of the business and even the faces and some of the financial information, however, so as a membership business case study. So this is. Our team is incentivized to create and to produce a case study a month. If you're an agency, you should do that because you need proof to show that prospective clients that you know what the hell you're doing. And in this case, this is a really, like, we've been doing membership stuff for a long time. So in the info space, this is actually sort of how we got our start, believe it or not. Lauren E. Patrillo, way back when, 10, 12 years ago, we had you love. When I say Lauren Petrullo, mbf, like, almost my.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

Almost like my government name. If he starts, I was like, Floyd Elizabeth Petrulla. I'm like, yes, I'm listening.

[Ralph Burns]

Yes, yes, that's me. So we sort of got our start doing membership sites for you know, people like Perry Marshall was like one of our first clients, Jack Canfield, you know, he had like a how to write a book membership site, which we did through a different company. But Jack Canfield was one of our clients. Dean Graziosi, same thing. Like in the real estate niche, we also did Frank Kern. Frank Kern was like a longtime client for three, four years. You know, the list goes on and on and on. Obviously we worked for digital marketer. We worked for, you know, Perry Belcher. We did like all like name any info marketer Evan Pagan, you name it. Like, that's how we kind of got our start. And it was because I actually joined War Room with Ryan Dice and like got access to all these guys. And that's the reason why. So membership sites are in our blood. And we have translated a lot of that knowledge of how to sell digital products, how to sell continuity into how to sell on E commerce, how to sell services, franchises, PI law, like all that sort of stuff. All these principles relate. But we really got our start in this kind of stuff which we're going to be talking about here today. Because I think every business, like you want a recurring revenue model. You know, it's MRR monthly recurring, your continuity plan. Like it's the best business model. And these guys have just figured it out. They figured out where's a rabid audience that like loves our stuff. And then they hired us to make sure that they got it out to a wider audience. And it was just that simple. But the business model was sound to begin with. I love continuity. I love mrr.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

I'm like trying to find the I've got the a hundred million Dollar money models book that you and I are both reading. I was like Alex said, get another.

[Ralph Burns]

Plug for Harmozi's book. Oh my God, whatever.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

If I'm reading the book, that's what I'm talking about. It's what I'm focus on. But he had said something where he like why he loves continuity offers is because it's a guaranteed money. I like the way I take in the if you have an upsell, you get more money. If you have a continuity plan, you get guaranteed money. If you have a downsell, I wrote that the downsell gets you some money and your attraction offer is supposed to at least break evens when you're acquiring customer. That was my takeaway from it. But he had said that continuity offers your mrr, your consistent plans is the guaranteed part is favorite way to make money.

[Ralph Burns]

Right? Right. SaaS does it like, like the Reason why, you know, software companies have insane multipliers. Yeah, yeah. Off revenue in most cases is because it's a continuity model.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

Yeah. There's a lot of people listening that have subscriptions to SaaS, services that they're not using but they're still paying for.

[Ralph Burns]

Yeah. So takeaway from today is think about in your business, can I offer some kind of continuity to enhance lifetime value? You know, we talked to a real estate company that does the same sort of thing as these guys and they said, you know, we used your NCAT calculator, which you can get [e-mail] NCAC which is to determine your cost to acquire a new customer. And they said it only went out to a year. Our clients stay with us for like three to four years on average, which is amazing. Like that's a continuity. People are paying them 6, $700 a month. Just think about how that compounds over time. And I said, well you know, for the NCAT calculator we have to sort of put a limit on it, but we get it. Like if we know within a year and you, your LTV is actually is a three year span, then your NCAC is actually going to be a little bit more conservative. So that's good. So I'd rather keep it that way. The point is, is if you have a great product or something in the space like these guys do, where there is a starving crowd, as Harmozi says, you should create some kind of community and monetize it in one way shape or form into a continuity program. So the problem with these folks were that they had a high market saturation penetration or so they thought.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

Okay.

[Ralph Burns]

They were nationwide. They sell these products, they sell this membership site in this recreation niche. Okay. Rabid, you know, fans of this particular recreational activity. When you're a fan specific, you're a fan fan.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

I'm like, it's like we're just gonna pretend it's Dragon boating. Right. Like if you're the dragon boating community, you're like, you know this space.

[Ralph Burns]

Yeah.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

If you're not in the dragon boating community, you have no idea that there's 20 people competing plus a drummer. Unless you watch that aura farming like 10 year olds. Right.

[Ralph Burns]

So well, Dragon Boating continuity. See, there you go.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

There are, there are memberships of Dragon Boating continuity plans. There totally are. It's a huge part. Like there's more people that watch the Duan Festival than people that watch the Super Bowl. It's just we're isolated to the United States in our Monacoma space. It's like how no one thinks about singles day being like the biggest sales day of the year, while the U.S. we just think about Black Friday. Anyways, it's okay. We live in our world. A bubble of this alleged Dragon boating recreational membership community again. What you're saying, though, is that this is set up for. When you're in the space, you have a place to geek out with other rabid fans. Because not everyone gets Dragon boating.

[Ralph Burns]

Not everyone does. But, you know, maybe this could be in the Dragon boating space. So problem that they have here is, like I said, high market saturation penetration. So they felt when they came to us, like, I. We think we've got everybody. We've targeted everybody in the US who could buy our stuff. We're like.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

So they've. They've conquered tam. There is.

[Ralph Burns]

They thought that they had. They're like, we've sort of reached. We got to this great level. It's great business. But we just got stuck and we can't find new customers. So that is the. That was the real problem. So not being able to acquire new customers at a cost that made sense as soon as they scaled, all of a sudden their NCAC or their. We actually had to figure out the rank. They didn't really know the rank hack to start off, which is fine. Cost to acquire a new customer. So we determined that. We went through sort of a very deep level analysis for that, figured out what that number would be. And with a membership site, you know, you're selling digital products, so your gross profit is pretty high.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

Yeah. Your labor is not as intense, so you're able to scale faster. And you do increase your staff when you're managing, you know, every 50 or 5,000 members, you need to bring on additional customer service. Individual. But yeah, your cogs are pretty healthy at scale.

[Ralph Burns]

Yeah. The basis of this is there's actually. I forgot to mention, there's a software in this to help these users, you know, in their pursuit of that recreational activity. Which is a tremendous software. Which.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

Like an Apple.

[Ralph Burns]

Yep. We use in their ads to sort of attract people into the community, but they get the community.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

Yeah. Dragon Boating paddle app. Like, you can see how many strokes you get in a minute and you can track how often you do it. I got it. The Strava of paddle boarding.

[Ralph Burns]

Yeah. So and then you got on the back end, you've got E Commerce. Like we're selling them more paddles. I don't know. Different paddles.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

You need a knee path. For those that don't know there's a difference between rowing and paddling is there. Row, you go backwards. When you paddle, you face the direction that you're entering your device into the water.

[Ralph Burns]

Yeah, just watch out. Don't like, you know, destroy your mic. Clang.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

Anyway, you have to be so obfigous of, you know, the word obfiguous.

[Ralph Burns]

Obfuscate, obvious obs.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

Anyways, that word to hide all this information. So let's keep going.

[Ralph Burns]

All right, we're doing it. We're doing it. So anyway, inability to segment new users or customers and targeting. So big problem in especially on meta right now is unless you actually have this thing that we call Capi Imports or you have tier 11 data suite, you really don't know who your new customers are, who your returning customers are. So the point is, is that if you were already a customer, meta in most cases is going to target those people, even if you put them in as exclusions. They were having a very hard time segmenting out new potential prospects in their targeting and they were just serving their ads at a very, very high frequency to people who have already bought. So they're super frustrated and their members were getting super frustrated. Yeah, there was that. They had good creatives, but I think they needed some help from a strategy standpoint for identifying winning creatives based upon the point before that, which is, all right, which creatives are attracting new customers? Hey, you know, when I was first a consultant actually doing the stuff that we're doing right now in Tier 11, one of the first tools that I learned how to use was from a company called Unbounce and they are now a sponsor of perpetual traffic. And the reason is, is that their landing pages and how quickly you can create those landing pages without having to consult your designer, your developer. With drag and drop builders now built in AI copywriting, it's even better than when it was 10 years ago when I first started using it on my own to create my very first landing pages. These guys are absolutely amazing. They've got conversion optimized templates giving you everything you need to launch your pages on your own without developers. In fact, Unbounce is the leading landing page platform for building, testing and optimizing high converting pages powered by data from over over 2 billion conversions. That is 2 billion conversions with a B. That means they know what converts. So if you want to Convert more customers one platform and launch pages fast, Unbounce is offering PT listeners a special offer. They are giving you the PT listeners 10% off when you enter coupon code PT10OFF over at unbounce.com forward/pt so head on over to unbounds.com forward/pt Enter code PT10OFF and cash in today. Convert more customers of one platform launch pages fast. You shouldn't have to wait for your designers and developers to build and test your landing pages. Get started with Unbounce today. So we had to figure that sort of stuff out. At the heart of all of this is really is data and reporting. So we needed to figure out what their NCAC is. So in our first three weeks or so, their growth strategist, we went through the whole spreadsheet, you know, sharing the P and L. You know, obviously there's confidential information. So I mean, we typically will get sort of a summarized P and L. But anyway, we'll figure out exactly what your gross profitability is, what you want from your net, all of that. We use the NCAT calculator, which you can get over at tier11.com forward/NCAC, of course. So we figured that out with the advice of our growth strategist and we really focused on new customer acquisition. And the big thing was new customer signups for the membership site. And on the back end, obviously is the e commerce side, sort of pull them in with the app as well. So it was just a whole strategy component that just really wasn't in place. And they had a great business leveraging.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

All the money models throwing back to Alex that they had in the system. So essentially you were saying, how might we acquire new customers without pissing our existing ones off and introducing them to the suite of offers and products available to them, whether they join the membership or just tap into these resources.

[Ralph Burns]

Yeah, this is a very common problem, like on every call that I'm ever on. Like, I'm sure for you too, this is the big problem, like I can't acquire new customers or I don't know, like cost effectively.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

They're like, how do I penetrate a new market where it doesn't blow out my budget? Because there's two ways to bankrupt a business, right? Either bankrupt them by overspending on staff or overspending on marketing. And that's the fear where people will mess it up. So it's like, yeah, I want to acquire new customers at a reasonable cost. I don't often get that without pissing off my existing customers. Cause you were saying that that frequency is like that importance of where with Andromeda and all this type of stuff, like everything in Meta we've talked about many times is essentially a master retargeting Ecosystem of ads and it's. You want to have some control because Meta should not be shoveling down a product you already bought. Down my throat I'm like, I already bought it. Back off. That's how I feel about live fresh right now. I'm like, stop advertising to me. I have four months worth of toothpaste.

[Ralph Burns]

I know, yeah.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

So I feel for these dragon boaters in this.

[Ralph Burns]

Dragon boaters, exactly. The fictitious dragon boating space. Yes. So those were the issues that we found very, very common. So the first thing that we did is we did our NCAC tracking setup and we categorized it. This is very important with. Not a lot of people do this. So in this case, these enthusiasts are in specific geographies that are relating to certain bodies of water.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

Okay.

[Ralph Burns]

So the point is, is that not every state is a target. So if you live in a state where you don't have this specific type of body of water in the.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

So you're talking about like a puddle versus a lake or is it like salt water versus fresh water versus it.

[Ralph Burns]

Could be any of those things. Like I'm not going to give it away.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

Man made water waterfalls.

[Ralph Burns]

Right. Somebody in Florida is a very good target, whereas somebody in Nebraska, not a good target, if you get my drift.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

Great.

[Ralph Burns]

So they were targeting everyone. They weren't going by state. So the one of the first things that we did is we're like, all right, well let's think about the business people in Nebraska are not your customer unless they are traveling to Florida and, or Massachusetts or wherever it happens to be. So and there was also a seasonal component to this as well. So there's a lot of different factors and they never really thought about that. So then we looked at by state, what is their NCAC by state, new customer, cost to acquire a customer.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

Okay, so you're taking it down. You're dialing back from the federal level to the state level. Instead of focusing on the national coverage, you're dialing down into the hyper specificity at the state level because the water recreation areas that they're participating on, they are very well known to that hyper localized community. But I can't tell you about anything in Nebraska versus I can tell you all about Wekiva and I can tell.

[Ralph Burns]

You about Wekiva is. But that's all right. Yeah.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

Because you're not in Florida. You're not.

[Ralph Burns]

I'm not in Florida. Sorry, sorry. I'm in Massachusetts. But you know, we are both surrounded by water. Salt water that is. Anyway, the point is, is that they had never really broken this down. And they all had never really broken down, like which state is the most profitable or which state has the largest potential.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

Oh, they didn't know the importance of their priority markets. Oh, that's hard. Oh, dang, that's hard.

[Ralph Burns]

So, but the data was so cloudy, we installed tier 11 data suite. We did. You know, this. One of the processes of this is capi import. So we can basically figure out who's a new customer, who is not a new customer. So in most cases, like, you know, they were. They were on track because most of the folks that they're targeting are potential new customers, but they didn't have a level of granularity. So like I said before, current customers are also being targeted by ads, which wasn't as big of an issue. The point is, like, they didn't really know geographically where the real sweet spots were, where. Where were the most lucrative enthusiasts. And so we broke this down literally state by state by state, and then created an NCAC almost specifically for each state. Didn't fluctuate all that much. Okay, okay.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

So because they might want to do like, like additional marking. Right. Are they present at specific trade shows that these Dragon Motors could be attending? Are they going to festivals where Dragon Motors are competing? Like, where do you invest deeper into markets that you can acquire new customers faster and cheaper? So, like, this type of stuff, while you're doing it for the digital side, it's like mission critical to know your numbers, because if you don't know your numbers, you have no numbers to know. Like, it doesn't make you don't have a business if you don't know your own numbers, because that way it allows you to. I mean, I say this with sensitivity to Black Friday, Cyber Monday. Everyone defaults to the big three, Google, Meta and TikTok for their advertising when there's still a lot of local opportunities or stuff. Like we said, this what you do with your first $10,000, knowing which states to penetrate to and knowing the trends of that state can open up diverse advertising channels that may make sense for you.

[Ralph Burns]

Yeah, yeah. And even going down to like the regional level. And you'll see and we'll share some of the ads here. I'm not sure how much I can really show you, but I'll show you sort of an example of a couple of the ads we even went down from like state and then to the local geography.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

Love that.

[Ralph Burns]

And then in that local geography, actually shot footage of bodies of water specifically that are unique to that locale.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

Amazing. You added relevant Creative hooks through landmark visual cues that enhance. I mean, we do that a lot. And we'll even have like, the copy language. Because if you think of someone in NorCal, if you hear someone say, like, hela, you know they're from NorCal. Right. And if you hear someone say, like, a boot or there's different, like, vocal cues, language cues, landmark cues that act as really good creative hooks to have you stand out above the competition. So you leverage those getting down to the regionalized level again, you had Wekiva Island. I would recognize it. You have no idea. But I hear you on this.

[Ralph Burns]

Yeah, totally. And, you know, even in the ad copy. And we'll show some of the ads here. Like, you're even using some of the local lingo. Like, this is. This is next level targeting for the ideal customer profile. So we.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

I would argue it's past level because I'd say this is Mad Men era. This is how you did marketing before digital marketing and like Facebook and click funnels made it so easy to just, like, spray and pray massively what you like. People just took their digital billboards and made it so they were talking to everyone and it was easy to make money for a while. But now you're going back to, like, foundational marketing.

[Ralph Burns]

Yeah. I mean, if you really think about it, okay, like, the enthusiast in Southern California is extremely different than the enthusiast for this in Alabama, for sure.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

And they have different things that they're thinking about. Different, like, ways that they're competing, where their dollars are being spent. And so if you talk to everyone, no one is listening. And here you're saying, I'm being intentional. I'm personalizing my campaign and making it relevant for the end user. And that's where, like, you and I have said a lot, you will win with advertising, especially in the world of AI, when you're as personalized and as relevant as you can to who they are in relationship to your brand and who they are in relationship to your CRM, which is where, again, going back to it, you said the people who are existing customers, the relationship with the CRM is they were already bought. So that relationship wasn't personalized or relevant to them. It was annoying.

[Ralph Burns]

It is annoying. Well, that wasn't the biggest issue, but that was like, the real issue is like, they just didn't know what they didn't know.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

Okay.

[Ralph Burns]

And the question that they had, I think it was our first call because this is obviously, this is a friend of mine that is now a customer of ours. But the point was, is he Was like, am I tapped out in my market? And I gave him the example of my buddy on Cape Cod, my fishing Cape Cod, my. My buddy, Ryan Collins, which, you know, we were talking about this yesterday. I think reporter effort is that he has a membership site for Cape Cod in this particular niche and he has 2,000 members, which bloats up to like 4,000 members.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

So if he does it, this individual, this dragon boat company, if he didn't have at least 4,000, then no way did he conquer his town.

[Ralph Burns]

Exactly. Well, exactly. But if you think about like Cape Cod is tiny.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

Exactly.

[Ralph Burns]

Tiny, tiny, tiny little area. And it's literally, it's Cape Cod Bay. That's what he actually markets to. He doesn't even market outside. So it's a market inside a market inside a market. And he's got 4,000 of these enthusiasts.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

Are in the niches.

[Ralph Burns]

Absolutely. And you got. I was like, you guys are nowhere close to tapping out your market.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

Great.

[Ralph Burns]

So subject matter expertise certainly does help here. But also we were looking at some of the audiences inside meta. We're like, oh my God, like they've barely scratched the surface. You just need to have good data to be able to target the right people with the right message to the locale that makes the most sense to them, speaks their language.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

So the creative helps curate the audience 100%. That helps allow them to penetrate to markets. And especially with Andromeda, like that's what Zuckerberg wants. He wants again that personalization and the relevancy. I want to know that you're talking to me, Lauren. Elizabeth. The Trullo.

[Ralph Burns]

Yep. And no one else.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

Yeah. Make it all about me. My favorite subject.

[Ralph Burns]

So speaking of making it about you, what we did notice is that we went back, we did an analysis of all their ads that have worked well. They didn't have this regional targeting or any of that sort of stuff, which is fine. So that's one of the things that we obviously did. But we also looked at what was the hook that was bringing in what we felt like according to in platform metrics were the strongest hooks. And it was clear there was one or two. And we'll show them here in just a second. I don't know how much we can show them, but it was really problem based. It was like this enthusiast has this specific problem because they see it inside their membership site and they know that that's the big problem. So that hook, like where to find X was the big problem. We identified that hook as the ad type or the hook with regional copywriting regional lingo, regional dialect that then targets these people that all had the same problem but spoke to them in a slightly different way. If they're from Southern California or they're from Alabama.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

Makes sense. Yeah. Because if they're in LA F the 405, you know that it's going to take you two hours just to be able to participate in this recreational activity.

[Ralph Burns]

Right.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

And so you're concerned about like I need to be on the road by X time. Whereas in Alabama you might be walking or biking or like just be have this as your backyard. So again, you're getting into that personalization and what that allowed you to do. What I'm looking at here for those that don't see online is we have a 52.7% increase of total subscribers year over year.

[Ralph Burns]

Yeah.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

Almost 20% increase of web subscribers year over year with a price increase. So they've made more money and acquired more customers and had 156% increase in app subscribers. So that was leveraging one of the money models. One of the resources that was probably heavily invested in that was just sitting on the side. Like I built this really beautiful thing and it's so helpful but no one's using it. And you're like, hold on, let me use it. Let me get it in front of the right people. Because they would love to have this app or software.

[Ralph Burns]

Yeah. So the app, the subs, the subscribers, all of this incredible growth within six months. Just, just these changes alone. Like most of these changes are not even really media buying related. They're just like, let's think about the business critically and let's try and figure out how to solve X problem, which is we've had flat growth the last three years. We feel like we've tapped out our market. They didn't know any of these numbers. They didn't know what was the cost to acquire a new customer. Like, let's get that up as high as we possibly can and it still makes sense for you and you guys are profitable, including our fees. And they're like, great. So we figured out that we hinted at the results, obviously, great results. Here we're going to show you some graphs inside their membership platform. So here are the results. And once again, if you're not watching this over on perpetual traffic.com forward/YouTube, I highly recommend that you do so. But actually this is. You see active subscribers going from about 3,000 to nearing 10,000 active subscribers.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

Dang, dang, dang, dang.

[Ralph Burns]

Yeah, that is pretty dang good. It's a 52% increase in total subs year over year. So as you can see here on this slide, we've got active subscriptions of 48,000. And the beginning of the year it was about 44,000. But active subscriptions, people that are actually, you know, in there and using, I think that is the difference between these two. So they have subs and then they have active subs. And they, they kept talking about like, we want active subscribers, not people that are just going to subscribe and then just never log in. We want them actually logging in, using, being part of the community. And that increased from about 3,000 to nearing 10,000.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

Dang. But the thing is they want, I mean everyone's like, oh, 48,000 active subscribers. That's money, don't get me wrong. But not active. It's like when we said how many people are paying for stuff they're not using? If you don't consume it, you're not going to convert higher ticket or have a strong lifetime value. If you were to look at the lifetime value of an active subscriber versus a non active subscriber, I'm sure it's a day and night comparison of the lifetime value of that individual.

[Ralph Burns]

Yeah. And you know, the best revenue that they've ever had in the ten year history of the company all of a sudden just came out of nowhere. So I mean like it's a huge win and this is great. Like, and they do such a good job of engaging the community, you know, in this, you know, in this recreational activity that we're not going to name here. The point is like they know what they're doing. Their retention rates are insanely great. I think it's three, four years.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

Wow.

[Ralph Burns]

Of subscribers, which is great. Like this just reinforces yet another money model.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

Printing money.

[Ralph Burns]

Printing money.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

Yes.

[Ralph Burns]

And these guys are doing this like the founder of the company, you know what he does all day? He, he does the recreational activities.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

Oh, so he's Dragon Ball videos on it. He's just Dragon Ball and living his best creator life. Got it.

[Ralph Burns]

He's living the best life. Super smart guy. Focus on marketing strategy, not marketing setup. ActiveCampaigns AI agents. Orchestrate your marketing for you with intelligent next steps, personalized content on demand and goal aware reporting that tracks every single win. So you can turn your ideas into revenue across email, SMS and WhatsApp without the heavy lifting. Try it for free [e-mail]. anyway, great results here. So all we really needed to do is just sort of figure all this out and putting it all together now. Now we're actually focused on enhancing the conversion rates on the site. So for the subscriber model, like we have our CRO division that's going to be doing that and then secondary to that, we'll probably do the same sort of thing for their E commerce business, which as I said, is, like I said, secondary business. So it's membership, it's apps. Okay. Downloading the apps, which I believe is paid. There's a paid version, so there's money model there. And then last but not least is an E commerce play here for discounts. You know, if you're a membership site, think of like, what else can you potentially sell or serve your customers even better with? And it might not be a, a product that you have. Maybe that might be an affiliate relationship, maybe that might be something that, you know, you work out a deal with that other affiliate to get a. You know, we do this all the time on perpetual traffic. You know, like we have an advertiser or somebody that comes on board, like they give a discount. That's an affiliate deal. Yeah. So work that in your business. And obviously the money model stuff we absolutely love here. And they have got this figured out. So anyway, I'm not going to name names here, of course, because this is going to be blurred out. But this is what they had to say about us. Tier 11 has helped us reach more new customers than ever before by on the challenge of speaking to people at the local level. And we'll show you an example of that in just a second. Tier 11 is going above and beyond for the good of our company. And so anyway, pretty, pretty proud of the results here. So. All right, so let's take a look at one of their ads here. This is obviously this is going to be blurred out. Look at this. You know, we're talking about a specific state, a specific type of, like everything is specific to this state. And this is the state of South Carolina. We're talking in their language here and they're talking about the biggest pain point that they have. And then it's literally, it's like ug. It's, it's founder video, face to camera with some B roll sells, the app, the system itself. Some of this you'll be able to see, some of it you won't be able to see. But anyway, they're trying to, they're pulling them in with what's your biggest struggle? What's your biggest pain point? You know, even with a little emoji, with that little red cross. Out thing. What's that called in emoji land? I don't know.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

The do not Enter.

[Ralph Burns]

The do not enter. Yeah. Still struggling to X the circle with the strikeout. Got it. It's not your X, it's not your Y. It's definitely not your luck. It is this. This is your problem because you can't find this thing that you're trying to do. The ad itself sells and also addresses the number one pain point and shows the solution and then that then leads.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

So you've got an app demo that's like again it's. You couldn't be more hyper relevant to that audience where what they're looking at is probably what a lot of the people do here is not add in hyper specificity down to the localized level. So that again you're just talking to everyone and hopefully some are listening but often no one may be. And here when it's that local, geographically speaking you have topographical maps of that area. The people that are deep into this dragon boating stuff can see so much relevance to why this is pertinent to them that it's almost like a no brainer.

[Ralph Burns]

Yeah, why wouldn't you that the type of activity that's done in South Carolina is very, I will tell you this, not really knowing this activity all that well but is very different than in Massachusetts and very different in Southern California. Different type of, you know, target specifically that this recreational individual is trying for. You guys can probably like piece this together because we're making it sort of super hard for you to kind of get to know exactly what the business is. Point is, is that you're trying but. Yeah, yeah. And we're leaving nothing to chance here. But the point is is that then you hook them in with all of this regionalized language which makes sense. And then it goes to. We're looking at this over@petpetual traffic.com forward/YouTube we're going into. We could even do this, you know, by state. So in which state do you x.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

Dragon boat the most.

[Ralph Burns]

Dragon boat the most. We could even. And we know we, we see seven or eight states here. We could actually have an individual landing page for each individual state.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

That's what you would do to make it better for the next.

[Ralph Burns]

Next level. That's sor our next stage when we do the CRO side of the equation. But it's basically it's a quiz funnel and it solves the problem. But you're also going to be grabbing information on who this individual is. So let's actually just kind of Go through it. Okay. This, that.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

So it's like, where do you go? What type of Dragon boater are you? Describe your experience level as a dragon boater.

[Ralph Burns]

Yep. What type are you? You know, where do you do this activity? Exactly. Next step is which of these best describes you? Beginner, you know, intermediate, expert level, like that kind of thing. And it's basically, it's, it's four questions and then you submit your email. So it's a nice, it's a cool little quiz funnel here that they do. It's brilliant. They're applying in essence for the club, the, the membership site.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

Yeah.

[Ralph Burns]

In the insider club. So it's, it's an amazing super, super smart business model. The point is this, is that if you can figure out a way in which to have continuity in your business, think about it from an E commerce standpoint. Like if you're an E commerce business, you're, you're listening to this podcast, you're watching this podcast. Like Lauren E. Petrulo, what would be a great model for an E commerce business that would run this money model that we're obviously huge fans of? What comes to your mind immediately if.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

You'Re an E commerce business and you want to have a membership subscription? I mean, I think of there's a gentleman in Australia who did it really well and it's going to be a bit of an in the gutter kind of thing, but he sells micro bikinis.

[Ralph Burns]

Kai, you a customer?

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

There are two types of customers that he has because he sells micro bikinis and then he has a membership portal for people that want to view the content of micro bikinis because there's the person who wants the E commerce product and they will want to show that off on Instagram a lot. But a lot of the times those micro bikinis are so micro that those posts get flagged to which then the guy, he set up this membership community and the membership's doing like a million a month.

[Ralph Burns]

Wow.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

And he has it set up where it's like if you post pictures or post content inside this membership community, you'll get $250 worth of store credit. So if you post a picture wearing a product, we're going to reward you with more money to spend on the product and you want to post these pictures anyways and maybe you have connections to other portfolios and ways that people can engage. But when you post too and you participate, I think he distributes some of the membership money back to the people based off of how much engagement their different posts he's Essentially created his own only fans account specifically for his E commerce products. And he's just giving away the products almost to the people that provide the most valuable content. And he built a membership where if you're not the end user of the product but you like seeing stuff about the product, you have accessibility to membership as well. That was just like a small thing where I when I think of if an E commerce brand can make a membership community, what's worked well for that brand. If it's not your end user getting together and people want to see the end user result, you can do it that way. Or if you're in E commerce, you can just have an application, right? If you're in the skincare space, you're having conversations your customers are having and you're talking about the application. If you're in the weight loss space, your membership community of like what's driving you directly, it might be like premenopausal weight loss, weight gain, post menopausal weight gain, pre baby, like healthy stuff, like all those different things. Your E commerce products just become an afterthought and known assumption. But people don't sign up for memberships because of community. They stay in memberships because of the community, which is why you're dragon voting. People probably wanted to increase the active subscriber because the more members in the community, the more you feel a part of something. So yeah, if you're an E commerce product and you have a discussion that's a hot topic that your team can get on. If you have podcasts that they listen to, it's just you're bringing the conversation together. It's like a post Covid rule. We saw that everyone wanted to connect. Connection is so big and if you can bring that together and have a place where they can have conversations with other individuals that nerd out on the same thing. Like I think of this is why Anime Cons are so successful. So successful. I know businesses that are doing 50 to $100,000 a day selling Styrofoam products at these Anime Cons because they're getting people coming together to show their excitement for a very specific TV show or a very specific type of show. Like you have opportunity and the E commerce product is just like a byproduct that your community would like to join. So yeah, I think it's a great idea. I just would plant that fun seed of if your end customer doesn't want it, maybe you can have other customers that will celebrate the people that are buying your product.

[Ralph Burns]

Yeah, absolutely. One of the examples that there's a couple of different ways to do this in the E commerce niche. Sort of our last point here, because I do have to catch a train to go to New York. But is auto replenish option. Like, for example, like you're in the beauty and wellness niche. Auto replenish is sort of continuity to a certain degree. It's auto replenish like, you know it's going to be used up within 30 days, 45 days. You give that as a, as an offer, but also potentially even some kind of discount for doing the auto replenish.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

Sure.

[Ralph Burns]

The other part to it is like.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

Subscribe and save discount.

[Ralph Burns]

Yeah, subscribe and save discounts, obviously. So auto replenish, subscribe and save. The same kind of thing. A client of ours actually a beauty box. So it includes like a full size and, and sample size, like deluxe package that they get every single month to try other products from their brand. You know, Birchbox does this really well. They've got like a beauty subscription service.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

Yeah.

[Ralph Burns]

And that's a continuity program, obviously. You know, that monthly mix of like beauty samples, makeup, skincare, hair care, all that.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

What's great is they're not paying for their cogs. Their cogs is shipping and the relationship building. Because I looked at it and it's like you say, hey, I'm gonna. I was looking at like how to be a redhead. There's a, an amazing Instagram and they do a box every quarter. And like there was a product that we had that's like really specific and great for redheads. And you have to donate 5. Donate 5000 units. And then that's just the same. It's just the way you're advertising. You're getting in front of 5,000 people that are introduced to your product to which it's your chance to lose tremendous.

[Ralph Burns]

Well, these are all great ideas. And so think about this. If you, if you know, you're like, I don't have a subscription brand, like, this isn't really relevant to me. Well, actually it is. Think about a way in which to get your customers, get your clients more sticky. And this is oftentimes the way to do it. Continuity is killer. These guys have got a great business and we're very excited to continue to work with them and get them to their ultimate goal, which is to double yet again in 2026, which is the goal of a lot of businesses is to obviously scale and grow and have wider influence, which is. And they're doing a lot of great things for this community that we have yet to name of recreational enthusiasts in the dragon boat niche, for lack of a better word. Anyway, make sure that if you're listening to this, head on back over to our YouTube channel, perpetualtraffic.com YouTube subscribe watch this episode Killer case study here. I think you can apply it to just about any business. So thank you so much, Lauren E. Petrulo, for all your insights here on today's case study. Yet another money model touting Hormozi's book, which once we finish it, we're going to do like a bunch of episodes on that too. So make sure that wherever you are listening to podcasts, you subscribe, of course, leave us a rating and review. Helps us get to a wider audience, teach people how to do this stuff the right way and of course all the resources and shownotes [e-mail] so on behalf of my amazing genius co host, Lorni Petrulo, ciao. Blushing again. That's why you should be on the YouTube channel. Until next show. See ya.

[Lauren E. Petrulo]

You've been listening to Perpetual Traffic.