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Before I started working with us, they were only doing about $1,300 a month in revenue. They had not figured out this whole online marketing thing. They ramped it all the way up to $393,000 per month. We've reconfigured the way that we work with these guys now. That means for every dollar they put into paid advertising, they get $26 back in return. So the first thing that we had to do, listening to Perpetual Traffic, Are you losing hours building campaigns and analyzing reports? Well, ActiveCampaign's AI agents do all the heavy lifting for you. They create content, plan campaigns and orchestrate your email, SMS and your WhatsApp all working towards your revenue goals. You get clear recommendations on what to do next backed by billions of data points. No more guessing about what's working or wasting time on manual setups. Just strategy and results. Try it all for free over@activecampaign.com that's activecampaign.com hello and welcome to the Perpetual Traffic Podcast. This is your host, Ralph burns, founder and CEO of Tier11. We have gotten a lot of requests for SaaS case studies and this one is a doozy for all you satisfaction SaaS people that are out there. How we're using creative diversification, how we're using tier 11 data suite, how we're using our relationship with Meta, leveraging that to a great degree. And how we're also using multimedia mix modeling, not really modeling per se, but actually using the two platforms, multiple platforms, the big two in this case Meta and Google together to get the lowest cost per acquisition for new customers these guys have ever seen. And having their best year ever. In the SaaS space. So there is going to be some blur outs here. We're going to keep this fairly confidential because it is a tier 11 client right now. But the point is, is that they're in the SaaS space, they sell a lot of different products. SaaS is actually sort of the cornerstone of everything that they do, but they do sell a number of other products that go along with it. Every good company has multiple offers and the SaaS part of their business is one part that has done extremely well for us and for them over the course of the last four or five years since we've been working with them. So this is probably a good time to mention the special that we have going on right now at tier 11 because we are going to be talking about creative diversification here just, just a bit. And we have a special going on where you can get the creative diversification package that we've talked about here so many times based upon the Meta and Andromeda update. A lot of buzz about it. We were the first on it back in the end of 2024 before anybody even knew anything about it. John and I have done multiple shows, Lauren and I have done multiple shows on this thing. And the only way to succeed is through great data, great media buying and great creative. And when I say great creative, that's 30 plus creatives per month that are fully diversified. They have to be at least 80% different and then you iterate on the ones that do the best. And the media buyers at tier 11 are the ones who know how to do this the best through John Moran's tutelage. Very happy to have him on the team here inside tier 11. So this special is going away at the end of this year. So right now we only have five left. So hopefully you get on this as fast as possible and head on over to tier11.com CD that's tier11.com explains exactly what we're doing, how we're all doing it, the huge savings that we're offering. We are not a cheap agency. Okay? You are not going to be able to pick this thing up for a couple thousand dollars. I'm just telling you that right now because this stuff takes a tremendous amount of work to put into it. So you're buying the creative diversification package which is 30 plus creatives done by our professional team, including UGC content creators. We have to source all these people, we have to figure out like how to integrate this into your business and then you get the media buying and the tier 11 data suite for free. This is not a thousand dollar program, ladies and gentlemen, so be prepared for the fact that this is a significant investment in your future as an organization. But it's the only path that we see moving forward to succeed on Meta. So check that out over at 211.comforward/cd. And let's get right into the case study here today. All right, so this is the SaaS case study software as a service. And before they started working with us, this was quite some time ago actually, they were only doing about $1,300 a month in revenue online. They had not figured out this whole online marketing thing. And we've had many iterations of many ways in which we've helped these guys. But starting really from before tier 11, they were getting about a 0.06 MER media efficiency ratio on a paltry spend of about $1,300 a month. They ramped it all the way up to $393,000 per month. And what we found is that we acquired so many new customers for them, we have actually figured out a way to scale back spend but get them a greater degree of media efficiency ratio. It's not about just spending more, it's about creating awareness for the brand and, and then getting your Google search, getting your Google Ads, your branded search, your emails, capturing emails. You'll see this in all the Tier 11 data suite data that we show here for you. But we ramped up to about $400,000 a month in revenue using a 3.53 MER in a very, very short period of time. And I'll actually show you some screenshots here where it's actually much greater than that. Like we said, we've reconfigured the way that we work with these guys. Now we spend less, we make more. So that's a very different model. In the agency space right now, everyone is wanting to spend more and more money. That's not the idea. The goal is to get to a point where you can actually get a higher media efficiency ratio with less spend. And that's what we're going to be going through here today. And this is how we did it. So after. So a little bit about the company, you're going to see this is, this is blurred here a bit. They basically help people to repair their credit, but also they teach people how to teach other people or how to consult other people on how to repair their credit. So, hey, are you struggling to connect the dots across your marketing? Well, AdRoll's connected advertising platform turns complexity into clarity with AI powered campaigns and seamless integrations. Advertise smarter, Move faster. Achieve more. Learn more@adroll.com PT that's adroll.com forward/pt. It's a great business model. These guys really, they're. They're in it to win it. And they have a real purpose behind what they do. Not only work at home, which exploded during the pandemic, but also now really helping people be able to afford homes, be able to afford cars, increase their quality of life, their families. So a real great business here. So step one, when they came to us, they didn't have an ad account. Imagine that. So in this credit space, soften times. The baby is thrown out with the bathwater, and the baby was definitely thrown out with the bathwater here, which was unfortunate. So the first thing that we had to do is we had to get on the bat phone. We still have the Meta bat phone to this day. I had undone the meta probably every couple of months in New York just to kind of maintain the relationship because it's so important for us. And in this case, it came in super helpful. It was a partner manager that was a couple before the one that we had right now. And she immediately got the account back. They realized that these guys were not trying to sell payday loans. They were really trying to help people in general. So anyway, so we talked to Batman and he helped us out there. Step number two was we executed the NCAC reducer framework. So the NCAC reducer framework is a lot of different things all at once. A lot of it is using the superior media buying of the tier 11 media buying team to reduce NCAC. But what we found is that in most of the spend that they were actually doing, they were just sort of retargeting a lot of their customers. So as you can see here, this was the 12 months prior to our engagement. Extremely high frequency. They had about a 7 frequency. So if you have a 7 frequency at Meta Ads and you're only spending $77,000 a month, you're basically showing your ads to the same people over and over and over again, which is what we wanted to avoid. So that was not growing their business. They had a.007 ROAS when that was actually a measurement that we would utilize inside meta. We don't use it quite as much. We use a lot of different metrics now like NCAC and MER and site tier 11 data suite. The point is, the state of affairs was pretty bad. So after we reallocated traffic to new prospects, this is One of the first things that we did and since then we have scaled things up. Consider so the frequency was down to about 3 and their purchases even with a $92,000 spend were about 341,000 per month. This is per month. So the screenshot I just showed you was the year before they started working with us. This is one of the first months we started working with them. And you can see purchases conversion value which we don't use as a metric now but back then it was a tremendous win for us and we realized this is the way to go. We have a strategy that works. We've got an ad account that's back up and running. They have a webinar that's very, very appropriate for the types of people that they're trying to attract. A software that's absolutely killer. So the combination of all those things were really starting to take effect here. So the NCAC reducer framework definitely did work. Now the big part to this is that Meta and Google were working together. And you can see this here, this is website conversion value on Google Ads of about $49,000 in ad spend when we were first starting out with was a lot of high value keywords, but a lot of brand name keywords which is a very simple strategy. Get their attention on an interruption platform like meta, like TikTok, like YouTube and then retarget those people over on Google. Not necessarily for the high value or the high intent based or super expensive keywords but for the ones that are more around your brand. You develop the brand recognition and the awareness on the awareness platforms and then convert them on the lower converting platforms. The bottom of funnel platforms like Google Ads. You can see here the cut through rate for some of these ads is 30%, 5% conversion value is pretty insane. Conversion rates are 18, 20, 27%. Really, really big numbers. So this was just a basic thing where we were doing ads over on Meta and then we were running ads on Google to get the final click and ultimately the final conversion. And as you can see here, this is an example of one of the ads which we're going to be going through in just a second now. And then it's just really just sort of six inch putting this, just teeing things up on one side and then getting the conversion on the other side. Very, very simple strategy here which I think any business can do. As long as you have a great product, as long as you have, you know, tremendous creative, which we did do. We we iterated the first version of creative diversification with these guys and things really started to take off inside of the tier 11 interface. You can actually see here, you can see the MER now. This is the last year, this is in 2025. The media efficiency ratio now is at 26. So 26 MER. Because we've realized that we don't have to spend more, we can spend very little on meta. We've actually reduced our ad spend, we've reduced our fee as a result of that. And then a lot of these fol would get very interested in what they have to offer and then they would convert over on Google over on organic and then obviously through the opt ins that they were doing through their webinar and through email and we'll see that in just a second. So tier 11 data suite was super important with Meta teeing this up and Google putting it in. And here you can see the last. This is the last months I believe. No, this is the last 12 months, sorry of spend where we've now reduced our Facebook spend Data to about 280,000 thousand dollars. And you are getting most of your sales over on Google Ads. 1.2 million. This is, this is last click inside tier 11 data suite and then you're getting a tremendous amount of organic. They have very, very good SEO. These guys have done always a great job with SEO. So you're getting about 2,7 million on just organic alone. And then there is some direct traffic that is being pulled in through here through a couple of other channels through affiliates et ce, which is something that's challenging to track through tier 11 data suite. Not impossible however, we're spending way less but getting a much higher mer. So the MER is the key part to this. And obviously the NCAC as you can see here is right around $33 total which is tremendous because the average order value and the lifetime value for these guys is in the thousands of dollars. So let's just look at this again. So the mer is at 26. This is not all about spending more, it's about spending less and getting more out of it. And that's a key differentiator. We're now testing a number of different strategies for first click happy imports with these guys as well right now. So we're taking things to the next level, making sure that we're really dialing their perfect ideal customer profile in order to get these types of numbers. And the business is thriving as a result of it. So here really it is, it's Meta tees it up and Google just puts it right in it's 6 inch putt as we love to do so. It's not all about spending more. As I've said before, step three was installing the creative diversification engine. This is first when we started to to experiment with creative diversification. We realized in this case a lot of their creative was kind of the same. It looked all the same. And this is one of the things right now with creative diversification that's so important. It's like they, you can't have all the same ad cop, you can't have the same look and feel. You can't have everything kind of look the same. And you can see these ads here. They all kind of look the same. They were fine, they were well prod, they were done internally. But we realized that we really had to shake things up and we had to get this true story of this business out and get the awareness and get the interest. And then once they consume the content, once they either registered for a webinar or lead magnet, interacted with the video content that we were showing on all these social platforms, then they would actually go through organic or some of their affiliate channels as well as Google Search, branded search and make the sale. So after the ads looked very, very differently and this was the key to all of this, was sort of the earliest incarnation of what we now refer to as the Creative Strategy Framework or a csf. This is the first thing that we do with any client that comes on board with us. Especially now with Creative diversification. Of course you can get that special over@tier11.com ced get the creative Diversification package and but get your media buying and the Tier 11 data suite for free. So buy Creative Diversification, buy all this stuff that we're talking about here. Get your media buying and your 211 data suite, which is two of the most important things. All three work together in order to get the great results. So this is one of our examples of our Creative Strategy framework. Actually labeled these people individually for icp. This is Brianna's. We actually go into far more in depth now. This is one of the early versions of Creative Strategy Framework and you can actually see some of the points that we're going to be talking on. Some of the ways in which we're going to attract these clients, potential clients to this customer. Are you struggling to keep up with marketing tasks? ActiveCampaign's autonomous marketing platform eliminates the busy work automatically. Building and optimizing email, SMS and WhatsApp journeys all for you. It's all powered by billions of data points that show you what drives revenue. So you can launch campaigns in minutes instead of weeks. Extend your team with AI agents that handle campaign admin and tedious tasks that you know your team doesn't want to do. Focus on strategy and let the AI do the rest with data driven decisions, clear next steps and on brand messaging across every channel. Try the next era of marketing for free@activecampaign.com and this was just the first framework that we actually ever did. We've done subsequently many, many other ones. So it's sort of interesting to see the incarnation of this over time. This was the after state for the best performing ads. So these were very different. You can see here they're using different ICPs, different actual real stor. So it's a combination of the video ad itself and then a very high converting landing page which we don't really even talk about here on today's case study. But what you get after the click is so important, so vitally important. And we tested the hell out of that as well to get the highest conversions possible, especially for their entry level product here. So this is what we call the transformational story video ad. So this is just one piece, one tenth of the 10 different pieces of creative or types of creative that we use. This one was very compelling because it sort of told a transformational story. And the example that we show here, you can kind of see it, each individual one. These are three different videos, but this is actually sort of the storyboard which we used for all of them. So it started off with a solid thumbnail with a lot of motion. Typically it will have a sort of the city in which they were located. I believe this one was in Atlanta. You could sort of see like the cityscape and like going down towards the individual neighborhood where this individual worked or lived. And then we give a little bit of bio as to what she's all about, a little bit of her backstory, how she discovered so solid thumbnail with some motion to start. Very important within the first 3, 3, 6 seconds. Obviously you want to get the branding in there as well, give a little bit of a background of who the individual is. Typical UGC style, testimonial style. Oh, and then I discovered this thing. I had this problem, I had my problem with my credit and suddenly I use some of their systems and all of a sudden my credit score went up to 721. And then here's the proof, here's the house that I bought. And then furthermore, then I started teaching people how to do this. You can see the proof in the fourth Pane here, which is one of the rewards that she won through the company. And then the pitch at the is join now or join the webinar. Download the lead magnet, whatever the call to action is in this case, this is actually direct to sale. So a very effective formula, but one of the 10 different formulas that we use in the creative diversification strategy that we now deploy with all clients, especially those that are advertising on meta. So let's talk about some results here. So meta account before or there wasn't a whole lot of spend, as I said before, about $23,000. And this was actually another screenshot from I think their second or third month right when they. No, actually right before they started with us. This is their last month before they got their account banned. $23,000 0.06 on the ROAS. And this was the month that we actually took over the ad account. You can actually see it here. Zero spend because the ad account was disabled. So hard to do much work there when you have a disabled ad account. Meta Ad account after this was month number three. It's $111,000 in spend with $393,000 in website purchase conversion value. Not something that we use now. We Obviously use tier 11 data suite now for all of these, but this is a good indication of just how quickly things started to turn around. And then here is tier 11 data suite before, when we first started. They're actually one of the first ones that went on to tier 11 data suite. You can actually see here. This is actually back in 2020, they had sales of 764 for a one month period, but it was $48,000 in attributed revenue. And after that, about six months later, they had 4,200 sales with a total attributed revenue of over 772,000. This is when we were in the ramp up phase. We were really ramping up ad spend, getting their awareness, really ramping up the awareness engine as much as possible. A lot of this really, really solid creative. And just so you can see it here, $772,000 worth of ATT revenue. That was the best month we had ever had up until that point in 2022. Since then, like I said, we have scaled back considerably because we've realized now that as long as you have tremendous creative diversification upfront, you don't necessarily need to ramp up your ad spend. You can actually capitalize on SEO and your branded keyword searches on Google. So obviously a very happy customer here. Our old agency like was like a horse buggy. Tier 11 are flying in outer space. Thank you very much guys. Obviously we were doing pretty well for them for a very long period of time. So they continue to ramp up. And like I said, let's go back to one of those slides where they're at right now. This is through 2025. This is well over $8 million in attributed revenue. But the MER is 26. That means for every dollar they put into paid advertising, they get $26 back return. So that is how we have evolved over time. You had to spend in order to get the brand out there, get the awareness out there. They've ramped up a lot of their socials, they've ramped up a lot of their SEO and now their Facebook and their meta ads are working perfectly together in order to get these types of results which have been absolutely tremendous. And of course, if you want us to do the same kind of thing for your SaaS business, head on over to tier11.com CD. That is where our special is right now. Through the end of 2025, you buy the creative diversification package, which is over 30 creatives every single month, five to six to seven new ones every month. We iterate on the best ones, the best performing ones. You buy that and then you get your media buying professional, best in class media buying with the best data Solution with the Tier 11 data suite for free. And yes, we only have five of these suckers left. Head on over to Shure11.com CD right now and grab yours. Obviously there's some qualifications, but make sure that you do grab it right now because I don't know how long we're going to be able to do this kind of promotion. But we do really believe in the fact that we have cracked the code on meta and creative diversification is absolutely the key. As long as you have great data, as long as you have great media buying to go along with great creatives. So that is this week's show, everybody. Hopefully you enjoyed that. We will leave all the links in the show notes for everything that we mentioned here on the show. Of course, check us out over at toureleven.com forward/cd. Wherever you listen to podcasts, leave us, a rating and review gets this show out to a wider audience. Thank you very much for all the ratings, all the reviews. We're one of the top three marketing podcasts on the planet right now, which is absolutely, absolutely tremendous and we really appreciate you spreading the word about that to teach people how to do this stuff the right way. So on behalf of my amazing co host Lauren E. Petrulo couldn't make it today. Till next show. See ya. You've been listening to Perpetual Traffic.