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Perpetual Traffic
Stop Pausing Winning Ads With Meta Andromeda, Kill Conversions Instead - Part 1
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- [00:00]
Ralph Burns
Hey, real quick, before we dive in.
- [00:02]
Sponsor Announcer
If you've got a brand or marketing tool that marketers need to know about, sponsor the show here at Perpetual Traffic. Perpetual Traffic puts you in front of thousands of seasoned marketers, CMOs, and agency owners. So head on over to perpetual traffic.com to apply to be a sponsor of this show.
- [00:19]
John Moran
Ad spend to a specific group of ads will affect all channels. This is where the CPA is going to completely screw you up.
- [00:28]
Ralph Burns
How we manage ads has radically changed. So stop pausing your underperformers.
- [00:33]
John Moran
So here's what we want to do first.
- [00:37]
Ralph Burns
You're listening to Perpetual Traffic. We all know this as marketers and business owners.
- [00:42]
Sponsor Announcer
That growth is amazing until something breaks or some catastrophic event, heaven forbid should.
- [00:50]
Ralph Burns
Ever happen to your business.
- [00:51]
Sponsor Announcer
And I don't mean just your ad campaigns going sideways. Maybe a client slips on a wet floor or a shipment suddenly goes missing, or a contractor gets hurt, or an employee gets hurt. Suddenly the thing you've been building can take a huge financial hit, maybe one that you worry might take down the company. And you should always be thinking about that as the business owner. Most people don't think about business insurance until after something goes wrong, when it's already too expensive or it's too late. That's why we're big fans of what next Insurance is doing. Business insurance is so important for any business, whether you're online or offline, and they've basically taken the pain out of business insurance. It's 100% online, ridiculously fast, and designed specifically for small businesses. You answer just a few questions and next tells you exactly what coverage you need. No phone calls, no waiting, no holding.
- [01:44]
Ralph Burns
The line for the next representative.
- [01:46]
Sponsor Announcer
Just fast, affordable production that actually has your back when things go sideways. Policies start for as little as $29 a month. Don't wait for a crisis to remind you you're not covered. Get protected in minutes@nextinsurance.com perpetual that's next insurance.com forward slash perpetual.
- [02:09]
Ralph Burns
Hello and welcome to the Perpetual Traffic Podcast. This is your host, Ralph burns, founder and CEO of Tier 11. And today's a part two on one of the most popular episodes that we've ever done here on Perpetual Traffic, especially in the last couple of months, which is counterintuitive advice for those of you running Meta ads and John and I. In today's program, we go through why you should never pause ads inside of Meta until you actually have a source of truth, because you just might be pausing and killing your best ads. And that is counterintuitive. To how everyone has done media buying over the course of the last 10 years, with the exception of the last 6 to 12 months when meta Andromeda hit the scene here. So if you're running ads and we'll show lots of screenshots here, on today's show, you're running ads and you're seeing horrible metrics inside Ads Manager and Meta. Well, you might actually be on the right track. And we'll explain why on today's episode. This is really part two of the original episode where we talked about this. And then we'll do a third part to continue with the education here. Because this is some of the biggest stuff that we've seen happen Inside meta in 10, 15 years. And if you've gone back and you've listened to the evolution of Meta, why it's the best advertising platform on the planet right now through that series. And we'll leave links in the show notes here today, you'll understand why. So without further ado, John and Ralph. Take it away, boys. Welcome, ladies and gentlemen, to the adlab. Cook it up.
- [03:47]
Sponsor Announcer
Chaos in the performance kitchen.
- [03:48]
Ralph Burns
John is jiving. I'm jiving. Everything is jiving right now. We are just so excited to be here. Yet another edition of Friday's Ad Lab. Good to see you again. John Moran.
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John Moran
You as well, sir. This is, I love these, These are so much fun. There's so much that happens during the week and you know, it's always a, it's always a fun time to kind of go through and, and kind of revise what like a big learning that has happened during the week, what we're testing. And it's, it's something that I think that even most agencies don't do during the weekend. They don't even have a show, which is kind of, which is why I think get, you know, such a good following here. Like, this is, this is the hard part, you know, like this is the true nitty gritty. So it's just kind of fun to like hop in here and be like, look at all the crap that happened this week. And this is what we figured out. Like this is, this is legitimately a full time job. So if you're, if you're running your own ads, stop. This is hard.
- [04:39]
Ralph Burns
It is, it is. Hire us instead. Of course, tier 11 for apply. I mean the, the somebody asked me one time because we've been doing the perpetual traffic podcast for 10 years now. Can you believe that?
- [04:53]
John Moran
Oh my gosh, that's amazing.
- [04:54]
Ralph Burns
It's unbelievable. I approached, I approached ryan Dice in 2015, because he mentioned at a war room, he said, hey, you know, I'd really like to start a podcast. And nobody went up to him, like, all right, the guy has a list of half a million people marketers. Probably like, I was starting this whole thing at tier 11. I'm like, might be a good idea to get in front of them on a regular basis or maybe get an email to them and, you know, you can launch a podcast with a half a million people list and probably get some traction. So that's exactly what we did. So we did that with Molly Pittman. And then there's been a variety of different co hosts, but yeah, 10 years in the making. And people ask me, they're like, well, how do you think of like twice a week? How do you figure, how do you.
- [05:40]
Sponsor Announcer
Think of stuff to talk about? It's never ending.
- [05:43]
John Moran
No, it's never, it's always something new. There's like 10 things that happen. We have to choose like the two or three things that we want to talk about.
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Ralph Burns
It's almost too much, you know, I have to record another episode later on today. This is like the third or fourth episode that we've done this week. It was like, there's so much stuff going on. So it's like there's never, there's never a lack of it.
- [06:02]
John Moran
And you.
- [06:03]
Ralph Burns
And I do calls. Well, I, I get on at least one. I try and get on two of them. You do two calls per week with the growth strategists and the media buyers at tier 11. And there's never like any dead air, you know, like somebody always has some kind of question. You're always showing something because this stuff is changing so much. And that's why we do these every single week to get them out to a wider audience, teach people how to do this stuff the right way. And today is no different. Today is.
- [06:30]
John Moran
So it's definitely what's. It's crazy. Like we'll have it twice a week and obviously we, we do a three step triage and then we, we kind of do anything that is essentially like roundtable discussion on how to fix things so that all, everyone can kind of chime in together. And then we do like, you know, the advanced learning that also kind of, you know, goes back into the triage. Like, okay, this is what happened, this is how we fix it and this is why. And then, you know, do we kind of just, you know, work reactively during triage, which is great. And we start to see set of like similarities, things that Kind of always pop and rear their ugly head every week. There's things that are like, well this veered off course, like aha, like that was the reason. And I'm like, well now this is veering. Of course be like okay, now that's the reason. So yeah, as, as we use a scientific method and base our theories and then test our theories to come up with a hypothesis and then a result, it is basically just a scientific method is how you optimize the creat. But what you're basing those scientific methods on, those metrics are extremely important and a lot of times can get very confusing when you have engagement versus metrics versus conversion metrics. So what we've been doing lately as a whole at tier level with media buying and the creative that we're going to be producing is starting to look at the, the ad spend and the engagement and the conversions in a slightly different sense. And I think one of the things that becomes difficult for most media buyers, marketers, companies, agencies, whatever it is, or even the creative teams is what's working. Like what do people like, you know, that kind of thing. And a lot of times we, we base a lot of emphasis on well, look how many conversions there are and what is the conversion rate and the cost per conversion, et cetera. And we started to look at it in a different light. I think I forget the person who, who kind of said it best or kind of coined this strategy in your brain, but when you do everything the same way every single day, time speeds up because you're doing the same mundane task and you're not necessarily identifying new or different or creative ways to solve different problems. So taking a different way to work or going to walk in around the neighborh hood like in a different direction or rather than playing basketball today, you, you do tennis like something that is different and new throughout your normal mundane task. And I think that with the Andromeda and GEM framework, sometimes we fall into the. Well, it's the same kind of mundane task that we're going to do. What's the cpa? Those are expensive. Pause those. I'm done for the day. That part now just does not. So we sort of have to take a look at things in two different lights. Yeah.
- [08:47]
Ralph Burns
And I think what John is, is gearing towards here is like one of our more popular episodes that we've done in the past is this idea of pausing ads, like stop pausing your underperforming ads because that isn't necessarily the way to success with the meta and, or gem and Or a lattice update, or however you want to say it, but basically everything's shifted in the last year and how you did media buying two, three, four years ago, like I was telling you about, like this Minimize, optimize, Minimize, Maximize, Optimize worksheet that we used to have. We called it the MMO checklist. If your ad in the last seven days doesn't have a conversion for whatever it is that you're trying to get the conversion for, you need to pause it. And if your ad all of a sudden stops getting conversions, like it was like your best performing ad and then all of a sudden it stops getting.
- [09:38]
Sponsor Announcer
Conversions, check your landing page to make.
- [09:41]
Ralph Burns
Sure that you have like a buy button on there. Like, it was like such stupidly simple.
- [09:46]
John Moran
Like, step by step stuff.
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Ralph Burns
And I, I found it the other day. I'm like, oh, my God, this is all completely outdated with the exception of if you stop getting conversions, zero for all your ads, you might want to check your landing page to see if.
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John Moran
The button is on there.
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Ralph Burns
And that did happen more than once, by the way.
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John Moran
Oh, yeah, yeah. Or remember when, like, chatbots were coming out and they were like covering the buy now button?
- [10:07]
Ralph Burns
Yeah, right.
- [10:09]
John Moran
All of a sudden you're like, all right, begin checkout. And the pop ups, like, hey, it looks like you have trouble checking out. It's like, I do because of you.
- [10:15]
Ralph Burns
Yeah, I know. And I was talking to a friend of mine this morning who I get on calls with every once in a month. He's actually a referral partner for tier 11, super sharp guy in Serbia. And he's like the first thing that I ever do. Like whenever I do, like a website audit. As I say, take out your phone, try and buy something on your website. He's like, nine times out of ten, they're like, how do I actually do this? He's like, there you go. And I'm like, I closed the sale. So it's stupid stuff like that that I think we all want to learn the latest trick. We all want to learn, like what John Moran's doing, you know, like, what, what's, you know, what's he cooking up in the ad lab. But a lot of this is going back to kind of basics too. Like acting like your own customer, going to your website on a mobile device, maybe not on your iPhone, but like, if you're with somebody who has an Android, like trying it over there too. The point is this, is that those things are a base level foundation, but how we manage ads has radically changed. So stop pausing your Underperformers. And that's what we're going to get into here today with a little bit of more like some Google stuff maybe. Yeah, Google in a while.
- [11:23]
John Moran
Which is cool because pausing the non performers then we're going to look at a first click versus non first click new customer only how that actually affected the Google Ads platform and why you sometimes get tricked. So it's right. Beautiful, beautiful stuff. I love this stuff. Right.
- [11:38]
Ralph Burns
This is very, very cool. And when I say non performers I should air quote that.
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John Moran
Yeah, yeah, relative.
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Ralph Burns
So anyway, so that's what, that's what we're going to talk about today. So excited about this one.
- [11:48]
John Moran
Let's do it. All right, so I'm going to go ahead and dive in and share screen and we're going to start with the typical way that we would start to analyze all of our creative. So what I'm doing right now is I all I have is a filter of ad delivery active. So this is not everything, it's just kind of what's active as of right now in an account and doesn' even really matter what the account is. We have like eight grand in spend and this is the reason why we start here from all active ads in the last 30 days. We're going to go and, and move it down to last seven days and give you the reasons why and all that kind of stuff and track the trends and the shifting of the asen y y y But when you're looking at things as a whole, you have to say, okay, if I spent eight grand on meta and if I close my eyes and as the CMO of a company, I should say I spent $8,000 and I know the products that I spent it on. That's the first thing that you have to do in your brain as the media buyer because what that will do is tell you what the majority of the users currently in your pixel are being being targeted with what type and what messaging. So if I was a company that sells landscaping and I know that hardscaping is 50% of my top line revenue and landscaping, so hardscaping is like pavers and, and block walls and that kind of stuff and landscaping is more trees and grass and shrubbery. If I if 50% of my ad spend is hardscaping but only like 10% of my ads is mowing lawns, I should be able and that's my revenue and that's what I'm trying to grow. I should be able to close my eyes and say only spent $800 out of $8,000 on mowing lawns. And if you open your eyes and that's wrong, there's a big issue. So that's kind of how we have to take a look at this is if you have a campaign and the default that we're used to is what's performing. You're not in control at that point in time. You're like, how did Meta made me make me look good or bad today? That's kind of what we're doing. We almost like roll the dice with a, with a lottery ticket rather than a purposeful spend amount tracking specific type of engagement and that's where things get a little bit more interesting. So if I, if we did that kind of like an exercise yesterday, we're looking at performance. And this is not an account that's doing poorly at all by any means. But we're trying to get really wide. Exactly right. It's growing really well. We're just trying to get aligned on are we spending the appropriate amount of spend on the correct ads for the audience we're trying to attract for the purpose of achieving the top line goal. Right. And that is a blueprint that you're looking at because if you have a high ad spend globally on a product, typically you're going to have the most amount of your sales on that product. Right. So it is more so high ad spend dictates the future of your company. And if you're saying, I wonder what we spent a lot of money on, you're coming into your own management that is only built by you. You are in 100 control technically saying, I wonder what my company's going to turn into tomorrow. That's, that's a scary way to wake up. So that's the type of mindset that we have to have going into Andromeda and Jem is now what is the audience telling me they like not what, what, what performed this week. We have to, we have to start.
- [14:58]
Ralph Burns
To rely on a barrier performance on.
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John Moran
Right. And we break down the barrier between.
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Ralph Burns
Is it hardscaping versus landscaping to your original analogy?
- [15:08]
John Moran
Exactly right. Is it. Is it spending and achieving the goal I wanted to achieve to my business goal rather than the CPA inside of Meta that week. Right. Exactly right.
- [15:16]
Ralph Burns
And of course, with every business, and I know this business really well, there's always internal discussions and, you know, launches and allocations and drops, you know, you know, departmental stuff that you're dealing with. So like, let's set all of that aside. Let's just use this as an example of. All right, we're Looking at this with fresh eyes, forget all that stuff. We realize that business is complex and it's made of people that have different agendas and different things that they want for the company, so forth and so on. So we're going to set that all aside right now. But just looking at pure performance.
- [15:50]
John Moran
Exactly right. And what's funny is spend dictates performance more than anything else. And I honestly, I understand that now more than anything that MMM is actually the multimedia mix modeling and where that multimedia mix modeling is allocated not only by channel but also the product slash service with the creative is actually probably the biggest lever that anybody could ever pull. And for a small, just a small example as to how Rising Tides floats all ships. There was a, a time period this last week that someone that essentially kind of watched the video that we were producing sort of try to do it on their own a bit. And it didn't necessarily fail in terms of the top line performance, but it failed on volume.
- [16:35]
Ralph Burns
Hey, real quick.
- [16:35]
Sponsor Announcer
If you're looking to get your brand in front of growth minded marketers, CMOs, directors of marketing and agency owners, we're opening up our sponsorship spots for Q1 and Q2 of next year. Get in front of a quarter of a million marketers every single month at Perpetual Traffic. All you have to do is head on over to perpetualtraffic.com for the details or check out the link in the show notes to apply.
- [16:59]
John Moran
So just, I'll give you this one, two second example. This is a company that still uses Nordbeam. So that's how we're just looking at an MMM perspective from the top line. And what was funny is, is like everything is tanking. We, we swapped over to feeder strategy and everything started to die off. And I was like, well let's, let's pause there when we say die off because this is actually kind of interesting. The only thing that was changed is they went from one big campaign, they've reduced the ad spend in that big campaign like by 30, 40% and then pushed it into new campaigns. I was like, don't do that. Like theater strategy is designed to keep your main campaign high spend and protected and you put incremental ad spend on top to steer it further into a growth direction. And they're like, oh, okay, that makes sense. But what's funny about this is this is the only thing that was changed between January 7 to January 13 was the ad spend was decreased by 30%. It didn't get any more or less efficient. Technically, your E Commerce conversion actually went up by 2%. So this here as an example is not a. Oh, this is doing worse. This is spend allocation was pulled out of these ads and pushed into those ads. And those ads versus these ads did approximately the same 5% difference. When you're talking about 600k in revenue a week is not. Is it's actually fairly stable. But you can see that everything started to tank down after that. Now the reason, one of the reasons why when you take a look inside of a campaign structure like this, we can't say, okay, what's the CPA and how many conversions do we get? And you know, this ad got that CPA that I got.
- [18:32]
Ralph Burns
Oh, that's a bad cpa.
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John Moran
It's like, well, not necessarily. What if they were, what if they were coming through and, and actually purchasing on Amazon? Oh well, okay. So that can't go into Meta. Well, I mean we can't ignore the 230 out of 600 grand. That's like 40%. Like don't ignore that. And you can't judge that by, in.
- [18:49]
Ralph Burns
Platform metrics at 240 NCAC over on the other side for this particular product would be very bad. However, if you're looking at, in the context of how's the business doing overall? We were on an earlier call earlier this week where things in Amazon are looking really good.
- [19:04]
John Moran
Right.
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Ralph Burns
They're overspending on Amazon, so it doesn't.
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John Moran
Look quite as good.
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Ralph Burns
But it's getting all the credit for all the stuff that we're doing on the meta side.
- [19:10]
John Moran
Exactly. Now and now, now you even double down on the fact that spend is more important than what the in platform metrics are because that also affects things like your email, your Amazon, your LTV depending upon the type of product. Because the ad spend is on the wrong product with low LTV or low aov, et cetera. But if we look at yesterday we said, I'm like, hey, change it all back, but then add feeder strategy. Now watch this. This is where I think is also really important. Look at all of the metrics in the revenue column yesterday.
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Ralph Burns
And this is by the way, I know we didn't talk about this one before. So feeder strategy for Meta or feeder strategy for Google.
- [19:40]
John Moran
Feeder strategy for meta.
- [19:41]
Sponsor Announcer
For Meta.
- [19:42]
John Moran
All right. Yeah, yeah. What's funny about this is after they just swapped everything back and started feeder strategy, they still have a low spend of 15.9. But now everything is kind of, you know, heading up. So once they just started putting ad spend toward the right ad inside of Meta, do you see how the Entire column that used to be read for the entire last week. Now yesterday, the entire column is green except for, like, discount site. That didn't really track anything before.
- [20:04]
Ralph Burns
I was wondering why you weren't. You were only showing January 13th and that other one, I'm like, all right, what is he revealing here?
- [20:10]
John Moran
Okay, that was actually the same people. So it was like, they're like, hey, we. We changed everything and everything is going down. All they did, though, is they changed the amount of ad spend on the ads and meta and killed meta, killed Applovin, killed Amazon, killed Google, killed basically everything because the ad spend shifted to a different group of ads in meta and killed the entire company. Then yesterday, they shifted ad spend back into those ads and everything came back. Now the top line is growing. Facebook is growing. Applovin is growing, Amazon is growing, Google is growing. Aha. So ad spend to a specific group of ads will affect all channels. Because if you just look at the law of averages, well, 8,000 out of 12,000 come from that group. So, yeah, that's 66% of all of your traffic. Protect it. So that's what we're looking at today is that ad spend on ads affect way more than obviously your cost per result inside of the platform. So here's what we. What we want to do first. Go ahead and remove the cost per result. Go ahead and remove the results. You can kind of remove is what you're saying. Exactly. You are now blind to what worked in the traditional, now incorrect sense.
- [21:20]
Ralph Burns
We'll fall into that trap of pausing ads that you shouldn't be pausing when you're not really looking at the big picture.
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John Moran
Right. So once you remove the conversion metrics, once you take out the conversions, you're saying you matter.
- [21:32]
Ralph Burns
Now you're saying, pull that out. That doesn't even matter. It's almost like we'll become like a programmatic media buyer over here.
- [21:40]
John Moran
I know. Trust me. Likes and comments are the future.
- [21:45]
Ralph Burns
That's right.
- [21:46]
John Moran
You know what's sad is likes and comments.
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Ralph Burns
Oh, my God. Like, we first started with 2015.
- [21:55]
Sponsor Announcer
Before conversion track. There was a time when there was no conversion tracking.
- [21:58]
Ralph Burns
Remember that? I don't know if that you. Like, we're at.
- [22:01]
John Moran
I was thinking that was before my time. I think I started in 2015.
- [22:06]
Ralph Burns
Yeah, it was literally like, likes, comments, shares. That's like an effectiveness.
- [22:11]
John Moran
Do you want to know how funny this stupid thing is? We went from likes, comments and shares as like the.
- [22:16]
Sponsor Announcer
The.
- [22:16]
John Moran
The main thing. And then it was like, now, like, you got hooked. Rate and click the weight. Now you got cost per conversion. Then we kind of went back all the way to like happy import first click new customers and now we're right back into like some chairs because it means engagement. Right now they, they're looked at a different light, but you know, history repeats.
- [22:34]
Ralph Burns
I'm like, that's funny.
- [22:36]
John Moran
I know, right?
- [22:37]
Sponsor Announcer
But it is cool.
- [22:38]
Ralph Burns
Like all marketing is like full circle in a lot of ways.
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John Moran
So yeah, it's, it's definitely, I mean people haven't bought something differently in their mind over 100 years. They. What used to be a poster walking by a shop in the 1700s is now the same poster. Just on a meta feed, it's the same thing.
- [22:59]
Ralph Burns
A product name like painted on the side of a, you know, a brick building in Brooklyn was just in like a month ago. I was like, wow, there's like an old advertisement on this building in this warehouse district, right?
- [23:10]
John Moran
Yeah, it used to be like the red brick would have like the logo of like the Walgreens.
- [23:15]
Ralph Burns
They were saying stars too, which is like never in a million years you get that one.
- [23:20]
John Moran
Like all it is, they just pulled it off the building and stuck it on a city bus. Now we're like ta da marketing pretty much. Yeah, exactly right though. But, but we, it's, it's around themes and that's kind of what we're going to be starting to grow into is. Okay, so once we remove the conversion metrics now what's the next thing that we look at? Well, let's look at spend descending because that's how Andromeda and Gem are agreeing that these ads are having a good, a good impact in the marketplace based on everything likes comments obviously reaching frequency and then you have your cost per results and hey amount of results and then you also have like hook rates and click the rates that are going to be earning and reallocating spend and reshifting the narrative between all of the sequencing that the ads have. So it's a live moving ecosystem but because it is a live moving ecosystem becomes much more harder to control. Which means we have to be much more diligent and restrictive on what we want to show. So you get that double edged sword. If spend can go anywhere, it's almost like a dog on a leash. A dog is going to go anywhere but if you give it a 20 foot rope to a leash, it can only go 20ft. Like that's the, that's the methodology that we now have other Aspen in our creative. Do we want to have a hundred ads? Say a hundred different things with a dollar each for a hundred dollars a day. I don't think anybody would agree that that is the optimal setup. But for the same, in the same thought process sometimes we say well yeah, we don't have a hundred ads and a hundred dollars. We have 70 ads and 20 $500. It's like what, that's a little bit better but that's still pretty, that's pretty, that's pretty wide. Right? Like that's a fairly stretched thin budget when you're talking about well how many themes and products are we sharing with just that simple, $2500. So we start looking at this after the last and looking at the last seven days. I like to start with a seven day period because that is the highest amount of new, warm and buyer traffic that you can see. 30 day view, you know people 10 to 20, 20 to 30 days ago probably I've already bought. If your sales cycle is let's say 10 days. Now if you have a 30 day sales cycle, yes you can go out more like 60 days. But you have to look at your look back time period in what messaging delivered what result based on how much you spend in that sales cycle. So your sales cycles are seven days. Well after 28 days you've gone through four sales cycles of the general population. You should have some consistency. That's why we don't just tinker every other day and turn things on and off based on the last view. This is where CPA is now removed. You can't do that anymore. It's gone. It actually has to force your mind into thinking not just what was last seen before the click, but what was the group of messaging that was seen first or at least seen most often. So we start to look at things in a little bit different light and we say okay, let's, let's try to find some similarities here. We have a chameleon coffee mug, then we have a food jar.
- [26:06]
Ralph Burns
Okay.
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John Moran
Then we have a chameleon water bottle. And then we have a chameleon coffee cup and then we have a another chameleon. This one is a non chameleon water bottle but it's a partnership. And then we look at a kids snack and then we kind of see that it starts to break off into like the onesie twosies. So there is a theme here in the last seven days that we're seeing which out of 70 ads, if we look at the top three, what are the top three ads? We have a chameleon coffee, then we have a food jar, then we Have a chameleon water bottle. Okay, so two of the three ads are about the chameleon style of water bottle or coffee. But the chameleon design is new and exciting. It's really cool looking. It looks kind of like cotton candy. It's exciting kids.
- [26:53]
Ralph Burns
Or if technically, if you're going now you're into the fourth one. So make your case even more.
- [26:58]
John Moran
Exactly. I was going to say the first three is you got the, you got the chameleon and the food jar and the chameleon. The top four. You still have a chameleon food jar. Chameleon, chameleon. The top five. Well, if you look at the DPA catalog that's usually, usually going to be shown more often. I could probably guess it's going to be the same as the top four because it kind of has to be because it's remarketing. So you now are going to have your chameleon and food jar in the top five. Now after the top five, you get like a partnership post, which is more like, you know, the influencer. Then we have like a snack cup and some product iterations and a catalog and accessories. Okay, so we have a top five. Now of the top five, let's look at the chameleons. So because we know the chameleon has.
- [27:36]
Ralph Burns
A really good impact, themes, commonalities and themes in order to say, okay, this is what the market is gearing towards, this is what the market likes.
- [27:47]
John Moran
So got it. And if you look at the top five and let me do this here, if we start to look at the top five comparison to the spend. So we know we have $2,400 and 5, 10, 15, 16. So 16 of the 24. So 1600 of the 24 out of 70 ads are to the top. So if you look at 16 times 2, that's 32. This is basically 2/3 of all of our ad spend is on the top five ads out of 69.
- [28:15]
Ralph Burns
Yeah.
- [28:15]
John Moran
Okay, so we have a high amount of concentration. Right. Two thirds of 70 is 5. Wow, that is a, that's a fat 5 when you're comparing it to the, to the lower amount of allocation. Asin. Okay, so now we're starting to see the majority of people are seeing chameleon and food jars. Now let's break it down a little bit just comparatively and say if we have to say ad delivery is active and the ad name contains. Let's do this here. Chameleon contains any of. So if we look at our, just our chameleon here now we can Say, okay, this is $1,200 in Chameleon.
- [28:50]
Ralph Burns
Hey, real quick.
- [28:51]
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- [29:14]
John Moran
We know that the top two ads here are within the top five ads of the entire account. Okay, and now we have a thousand dollars approximately out of twelve hundred dollars on basically these two ads. Or at least, you know, a thousand or about 950 out of 1200. Okay, so it's like 80%. Yeah. So 80 of our chameleon or 80% of our ad spend in the chameleon style is split between coffee and water bottle. Okay, so what does this tell us? Well, let's look at some of the. Look, look at the hook rates and click the rates. Now if we look at the chameleon, we have a 2.16 outbound click through rate and an 18 hook rate average. So if we then look at just the video ads. So let's see how the video ads did as a whole. And we're starting to start to whittle down to all the chameleon ads that are here. Let's look at the. I can't whittle down to those, unfortunately. I don't think it will allow me to filter to rows with I with a filter on it. But if we look at this 28, 2016, they're actually a little bit higher because that is a little bit off. So it's a 32 hook rate. And then we gotta look at the hook right here which is 20, and then we have to look at the hook right here, which is probably 1920. So 32, 2020, you got about a 25 hook rate. 25 hook rate in the ad engagement here, which is the. Why is this not. There he goes. 25 hook rates. Kind of like the healthy keep scale. So it's falling within that average. Now what do we have to say is how much ad spend has this been delivered? If we have $3,000 in ads, do we want to have 70% of our ad spend globally be spent on chameleon and have it be almost like a 50, 50 between the coffee and the water bottle? Is that appropriate for what we're trying to achieve for this company. In my opinion, we could probably do this a little bit differently. We might be able to do this in a little bit of a different way. And let's start to look at the themes. So you have coffee here. So you got a coffee in the top one. Then you have a water bottle in the second one, Then you have a coffee in the third one, you have a water bottle in the fourth one, and then you have a coffee in the fifth one. So three out of the five are coffees. When you're looking at aspen descending. So coffee chameleon, that is about the highest performing ads that people are resonating with with hook rate, with spend, with gem, with click the rate right now if we closed our eyes and did this all over again and looked at it right here, we can kind of see the same thing which is as been descending. Yes, it does seem like the, the coffee and the chameleon just kind of dominates everything. If we're looking at all ads that have been on or off in the last seven days, like this is, this is primarily most of what we're seeing. The ad spend is high, the click, the rates are above average, the hook rates are above goal. This is it. We have basically chameleon water bottles, chameleon coffee and a tiny bit of food jar. Now, is food jars what we want to push? I don't know. I, I couldn't answer that right now. I know that we are pushing about 5 or 20, about 20% of all of our Aspen to food jars. So that's where we have to stop now. So we can say people really like the chameleon. There's this 50, 50 split between the chameleon water bottle and the coffee. But coffee does spend a little bit more, have a little bit better hook rate and have a little bit better click to rate. Let's produce more chameleon coffee.
- [32:33]
Ralph Burns
Chameleon coffee.
- [32:35]
John Moran
There you go. That is our iterative process. Those are the winners.
- [32:38]
Ralph Burns
Now, you haven't even looked at CPA conversion. You haven't looked at anything. But you know, just from that analysis like that. Now, all things being equal, there could be supply chain issues, There could be other things that we're not privy to on this call.
- [32:53]
John Moran
But we're just saying, like this is agnostic.
- [32:55]
Ralph Burns
Agnostically, like every business has its own individual story. The point is this is that you can look at this and analyze it. You can say this is what Meta Andromeda is really, really telling you. It's screaming at you.
- [33:13]
John Moran
Pause.
- [33:14]
Ralph Burns
These ads is what it's saying, yeah, but if any of those ads, especially in the Chameleon Coffee ones, have zero conversions back in the old days, we'd say, oh, that's a bad ad. Let me shut that one off.
- [33:28]
John Moran
Right, right. And here's what's funny.
- [33:31]
Ralph Burns
They have deleterious effects downstream, which I believe, you know, in this particular case, this is, this is a short window from first impression to actually conversion. It's under a week in most cases, as I recollect.
- [33:42]
John Moran
Yeah. I would say that it's, it's definitely, it's definitely under a week. I would say if it takes too long to buy water bottle, you're probably in the minority, not the majority. Right. And if we look now at the results and then the cost per result. Let's do this here. So we, we removed everything we said, hey, we think Chameleon Coffee probably is doing the best. So if I just look at. Now I have all of my, my columns back in here for cost per result. And if we look at Chameleon here as an example, the. I wish I could do the cost per result here, but I can't because we have too many different variations at this, at this group level, which is.
- [34:16]
Ralph Burns
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [34:17]
John Moran
We do some first click water bottles and first click coffee and Tumblr, which is completely fine.
- [34:21]
Ralph Burns
Coffee and C for each individual one, which is fine.
- [34:24]
John Moran
Yeah.
- [34:24]
Ralph Burns
And that's what you want.
- [34:25]
John Moran
Now, now here's where ad copy is going. This is where the CPA is going to completely screw you up. And this is where I love how we just looked at everything and said, you know what? We unanimously agree that Chameleon water bottles and Chameleon coffee seems to be the best. And if I look over here and said, ralph, I need you to tell me which one of these exact same ads is better. Okay. Is it 1.6 or 1.4? I mean, you're kind of splitting. All right. No, no. You know, is it 19.1 or 19.0, Ralph? Well, okay, is it 18 or 18? Well, is it 14 or 15? They look about the same, right?
- [35:05]
Ralph Burns
Yeah. I don't know what the variation is because I can't see the ad name. I, I shouldn't like, I, I have to assume in the nomenclature somewhere in there it is.
- [35:12]
John Moran
Or maybe it is the exact same. Added two different campaigns. Oh, okay. That's the reason.
- [35:17]
Ralph Burns
I got it.
- [35:17]
John Moran
But you see how their book basically holds you.
- [35:19]
Ralph Burns
Incredibly consistent.
- [35:21]
John Moran
Yes, but you know what's not incredibly consistent? One got a 200 sale, one got 46. So wait a minute. If you have more people clicking first here and that one second. Well, that ad, that's the same exact ad with the same exact hook rate click through rate impressions and frequency that one is. You know what? I think that's three times better. Right? Right. Why? Well, I don't know. It said and this is where CPA and engagement is better.
- [35:51]
Ralph Burns
Really?
- [35:53]
John Moran
Yeah, yeah. Taking 2 and then turning to 2, 4, 6. Yeah. 300. So is this AD 300 better than the same ad when you're comparing the same hook rates, the same impressions, the same reach, the same click, the race, the same frequency? Oh, wait a minute. No, it's one ad simply did more remarketing because it had lower spend and that had more last views before they bought probably on the website and later on on Amazon they'll probably walked into Costco. Doesn't matter. Did more people buy the chameleon period? Like that's all what we're trying to do here is meta is going to play whack a mole with conversions. You. It's like, it's, it's kind of like Oprah, like in the crowd people didn't do anything. But you get a conversion and you get, I mean it just kind of spreads it out over what was last views, Patient trophies. Yeah, exactly. Right? Yeah, yeah. You're here and you have spend so you win. Why? Because if we don't tell the media buyer that they're gonna take money away from us, so they just dump it. So that's what's really interesting is you look at all the engagement metrics from the same ad and they are exact same, but one is three times 300% better performance. And that's where this, that's where we chase our tail. If we play whack a mole or like exploding conversions where the fallout just lands everywhere and then we are trying to chase where the fallout is landing, not where the explosion happened. We're going to chase our tail. We don't want to see where people land, we want to see where people are starting. Like that's kind of the methodology. So you do that in. Well, what is ad spend? What is click the rate? What is engagement? What is hooks rate? When you layer in conversion and conversion value and roas and CPA on afterwards you go, it doesn't make sense. Especially if you check the top line and you see like the majority of our sales are coming from chameleon water bottles and chameleon food jars and or sorry, chamele water bottles and food jars and chameleon of coffees. If a high amount of concentration is is being spent there and the high amount of concentration of sales are happening there, even though Meta can't see even things like Amazon or email or direct or organic and all of ways that, you know we may be losing the conversions because of loss of cookies in consent mode. That's, that doesn't matter. There's only, there's two the two truths. Well, it's actually one truth and a lie. I know I spent the money. I know that's solid. I. The money's gone. It's out of my bank account. Click the rate fairly static. The engagement rate fairly static. When we're looking at things like hook rate and hold rate and that kind of thing, all of those I know are extremely true, then on the flip side, the conversions I know are extremely false. And if the extremely true side is showing some consistency and growth and performance. But the what would the conversions showed if those are not aligned, which one do you believe? That's kind of the methodology. So we're looking at what is performing this week by taking, I mean it took us what, 10 minutes, 15 minutes to go through this. And this is me teaching it 10, 15 minutes to identify what is the best top performing ads. It would take you another 10 minutes to kind of hop in the back end and track a trend of the sales. Well, ad spend increased on Chameleon. Did revenue increase on Chameleon? If so, yes, that worked. I'll give you a really good example of this where we have another one.
- [39:03]
Ralph Burns
All right, so I hope you enjoyed this week's show. We are going to be coming back with another show next week as a continuation of this week's with another case study on why you shouldn't be pausing ads that look horrible inside Meta when in fact they're actually driving your business and driving new customer growth. And we'll come back with that episode next week, so stay tuned for that. In the meantime, head on over to perpetualtraffic.com for all the links that we mentioned here in today's show. And of course, wherever you listen to podcasts, make sure that you leave us a rating and or a review that helps us get out to a wider audience to teach people how to do this stuff the right way. Through metrics that matter and growth that scales. So on behalf of my amazing co host, Lauren E. Petrulo, till next show, see ya. You've been listening to Perpetual Traffic.