C (4:27)

This is the tablet company, the, this company here, we did the, the feeder strategy for it, but in, in a, in a much different sense than what we're looking at here because this one's actually structured to grow each one of these categories independently except for a small category. And you'll be able to see which one here as soon as we log in. I think it's actually a very, very, very interesting case study. So inside of here we have ad spend that is dedicated to a particular type of category. Now if we look inside the back end of the analytics and I go into the reports, you'll see that every day I check. Well, not every day I missed yesterday, but usually every day I check my report called John Moran Total sales by product. I just put my name up there because it's my custom report. What I look at here is, well, since starting all these individual campaigns that all started on January 2nd and every single one of these started on January 2nd, we can take a look and say, okay, since January 2nd to this time period compared to the previous period, we look at the new customers, what has happened. Okay, so we can see all of our products and we can see. Let's just do this. Let me get rid of, like gross sales. Let me get to a number of net items sold. I just want to see new customers and product kind of, you know, the products. So toilet bowl cleaner, 21 new customers. Up to 35. Excellent tile and floor, 19. Up to 32. Good dishwasher detergents. From 4 to 19. Good laundry detergent tablets. We're actually not doing that one. We. We're doing the dishwasher and we're actually doing a different laundry detergent. But it's not going to be. It's not. It's actually going to be this one right here that's going from zero to two. So we're going to ignore laundry. That was a different product.

A (6:03)

Got it.

C (6:03)

The dishwasher tablets, 17 to 17. Fairly standard bamboo cleaning cloths for up to 13. Foaming hand soap going down. The coconut scrub, scrubbing sponges going down. So you got scrubbing, you got coconut or. Sorry, I got bamboo cleaning cloths and coconut scrubbing sponges. Cleaning cloth and scrunches. Those are going down. The bamboo cleaning cloth and scrubbing sponges are not a category we're pushing.

A (6:34)

I was about to say I love the hand soap with these guys, by the way.

C (6:37)

Right, My favorite. Yeah, exactly. So we have like a main campaign that has all of these five in one. So we have basically five independent and one that has five. So basically these are the same campaigns. But what's interesting about this is also since I started to increase the ad spend between these two time periods, which is basically nothing to nothing, what's cool about this is with feeder strategy. Yes. I know that my 2% spend on my main campaign is still producing 56% more customers. Why? Well, I know I have ad spend here and I know that I will have a last view here because this was the bigger campaign and for longer. But does that mean that these ads aren't working when this one just grows by 56%? No, especially when I can check in the back end and say, how's my toll bowl tablets doing? Well, went from 21 to 35. Well, how's my toilets here? This one is so funny because this one actually has not tracked a result at all. Went from zero to $275. I didn't sell anybody, according to Meta, but that is actually what is now went from 21 to 35. So do I shut off the CPA? Hell no. I'm doubling it. Or do I shut off that campaign because the CPA is gone? I basically went from 21 to 35 and it cost me, you know, 275 bucks. Good.

A (7:53)

And, and the icing on the cake here is that you're not even tracking Amazon sales.

C (7:58)

I'm not tracking Amazon sales. But, but guess what?

A (8:01)

Amazon sales are significant here.

C (8:03)

Amazon sales are very significant. And that's also why I don't care. But you know what? I am tracking that. This entire campaign has a 38% hook rate. That's important, by the way. It's better than cost per conversion.

A (8:15)

Good. Yeah, that's tremendous. And hook rate over 25% is considered very good.

C (8:20)

Yeah, yeah. That was the kind of the ad engagement metrics that we got from a day and drop in a team. Basically. There's a wider range, but the ranges, you want to keep them obviously agnostic to industry. You know, if I give away free gold bars, you're going to be above 90. You know, like obviously that's going to be important. But if I say, hey, come, you know, 20% off leg amputations probably gonna not do that. Great. So they're relative to the industry. Right. But when you're looking at the ranges, if it's below 15, that's like, okay, it's, it's dead and gone like this. You know, just pull the plug. It's on life support. The over 25 is thriving and flourishing. So those are the kind of the ranges you can bounce around the 25. But if you're bouncing around 15, that's just too low. So 15 to go to 20. Fine. 25 to go down to 20. Watch it. It gets dangerous. That in between those two points is your danger zone. Got it. When you're also you have a click the rate outbound of 1.5. And if we have our click the rate outbound. If we're just looking at that here, CTR, click the rate up. I click the rate. 1.5 is where we're going to try to get to. Right now we're at 2.57. So yeah, that 2.57. Click the rate outbound right there. 1.5 we're at, we're almost 100 above that. So our frequency is good. Hook rate's good. Click the rate is good. I deleted the conversion column because it doesn't mean anything because my conversion column is right here. And that tells me that with real money in my bank account that I get to pull out. But Yeah, I spent $275 and I made 350 bucks more in the first kind of two weeks of doing this. And we're starting to see new customers increase by 80%. So do I listen to Meta? No, I really don't anymore. Meta is in my opinion a fantastic, fantastic, fantastic, fantastic marketing channel. You know what, it sucks at attribution. Maybe take that in consideration that that's.

A (10:04)

That'S today's bottom line sort of quote from John Moran. I, I just wonder on this one, knowing this one and knowing the other one actually, because they both sell on Amazon. You're not even looking at Amazon here because you're looking at engagement rates within the platform itself, not even conversion. Then you're looking at the back end. We didn't even look at our first example on the chameleon coffee cups. We don't have to do that. I think it's probably best that we don't.

C (10:29)

I was going to say there's, there's a lot of activity there. I wanted to kind of.

A (10:32)

A lot of activity. We want to simplify this as much as possible.

C (10:35)

Also we want to keep very large company.

A (10:37)

Yes, absolutely. And, but it's like once you actually have a way to track Amazon sales, Shopify, which is your source of truth and all the platforms and what you're actually spending, it's nirvana. It really, really is. Like we have another client which I don't think you've done a ton of work with. We have 50, 60, $70,000 a month in programmatic spend that's in addition to. And then we look at inside the Digi, inside Tier 11 data suite and we can see what's spending there, where Amazon sales that they also sell on Amazon and we're seeing everything, how it all kind of works together. And then you go back into the ad platform, you're like, all right, well which ads are the ones that are getting the most engagement, that are driving conversions? Maybe on Amazon, maybe on their site, but it's all of it's working together. And then when we calculate the overall ncac, we see all the platforms reducing the overall NCAC from I believe it was 183 down to like 134 in the last three months. Hey, real quick, if you're looking to.

B (11:39)

Get your brand in front of growth minded marketers, CMOs, directors of marketing and agency owners, we're opening up our sponsorship spots for Q1 and Q2 of next year. Get in front of a quarter of a million marketers every single month at Perpetual Traffic. All you have to do is head on over to perpetualtraffic.com for the details or check out the link in the show notes to apply because everything's working together.

A (12:03)

Because we're not worried about what's Meta doing, what's Google doing. We're saying in this world that we live in, especially now, like you said, Meta is a great top of funnel awareness platform. It's a great advertising platform. It's not a great attribution platform.

C (12:21)

It spawned in industry. Wicked Reports is here because they failed. Why are the people who like you know, now work very closely and, and with Wicked Reports to make even that more accurate, why would we look in the platform? That's, that's an oxymoron.

A (12:36)

I mean why are we spending tens of thousands of dollars a month, all of that?

B (12:40)

Like if I had to, if I.

A (12:41)

Didn'T have to give that money to them. Right, Sort of the secondary Cheryl was there. But the point is this is that.

B (12:49)

If, if everything was perfect inside the.

A (12:51)

Platforms, we wouldn't be spending any money. Like a north Beam wouldn't exist. Wicked Reports wouldn't exist. God knows.

C (12:56)

Well, Hyros.

A (12:57)

No, wouldn't exist. No, I mean the point, yeah to stay in the ocean. I mean there's a demand for it because none of these platforms are giving you the proper data. Even with first click happy imports and everything else that we've talked about here to a certain degree. Like you still do need a secondary.

C (13:14)

Source of truth for sure. This is, watch this. This is where I think the, the big aha moment is whenever I do this, it's, it becomes an eye opener for most people. What we did here since the second is we've added a hundred percent more ad spend inside of, inside of just the Meta campaign. Okay so that's a hundred percent increase now, 100 increase to top line. Mmm. No, no, no. We have Walmart, we have Amazon, we have Google, we have meta. It was 100 increase of only meta, which is basically $1500 since the second. So approximately about 7 or about 700 more per week now inside the platform. The cost per result, the thing that I find exciting is is that green? And is that green? This could be another one in front of it. This can have 16 more zeros behind it. I don't care as long as it's green. Because if you look at the actual number of this, my 85 went down to 71 and that would be extremely poor. That would be very, very bad if our analytics are showing that our average order value is $26. Because that's like, that's spending 50 bucks on.

A (14:24)

You're just burying money. Every conversion.

C (14:27)

Right. Dear Lord, this is. This is on fire now. This is.

B (14:32)

This is that.

A (14:33)

Are actually asked about all this stuff inside Men.

C (14:35)

I'm.

B (14:36)

What was my.

A (14:36)

I think I said that's not your job, actually.

C (14:42)

So go ahead. So that's what's kind of funny is like this going down $14 when you add 100% in asbend. Good. Like, I'm, I'm excited about that, but I'm excited about it being green because it's good. It is.

B (14:53)

Directionally, it's work like that gives you.

A (14:55)

You're like, okay, things are moving in.

C (14:57)

The right direction here. Now you want to see something funny? So 85 going down to 71 benchmarked means that my top line has my NCAT going down another 8%. I basically went. I didn't go from 85 down to 70. I shaved basically a dollar off of my new customers. That's a great. Explain that again.

A (15:16)

Sorry. Like, I know you're explaining it, but just go through that a little bit slower because I think bench benchmarking is one of those ones I get a lot of questions on. And this is a great example of you benchmarking.

C (15:26)

Exactly. Yeah. Yep. So what happens here is if inside the platform, my $85 conversion goes down to $71 in my cost per conversion. Okay, that's a scary, scary number. But what did my percentile of cost per new customer go down to? It went down 16.51%. Okay. My NCAC on the top line didn't go down 16%. Why? Because Meta is not 100% of our spend. It's a large portion of it, but it's not 100%. So if Meta goes. If meta has its own attribution, say twice as good as. After you take that and say, well, you're one of three. So you being a hundred percent better wouldn't have a hundred percent increase to my top line. You're only 30% effective towards my top line. So you're 100% better, which is a 16 better change equated to a impact of only half to the top line. Because that's not. That's about probably half our spend. And it approximately is because a lot of spends on Amazon, which we are correcting. But because my main spending channel got twice as good, but that's only half my spending, it means that my Total top line got half of the benefit of the singular child that did twice as good. So it sounds weird but basically when you have two, if you have two C students and one of the C student becomes an A student when I have an A and a C which means your average just went from a C to a B. That's all this is essentially a large amount of spend. Doing twice as good is only half as affected to the top line because the other half is out there in purgatory just doing whatever it wants to do.

B (17:00)

Hey, real quick, if you're looking to get your brand in front of growth minded marketers, CMOs, directors of marketing and agency owners, we're opening up our sponsorship spots for Q1 and Q2 of next year. Get in front of a quarter of a million marketers every single month at Perpetual Traffic. All you have to do is head on over to perpetualtraffic.com for the details or check out the link in the show notes to apply.

C (17:23)

We're not doing mmm yet now with this client we are getting there but you can see that as one side like as the right leg runs faster, we're not winning any more races. We're just you know, kind of slightly going faster but only on the right side of our body. It still needs the left side to catch up. Right. So that means that our top line though went down 8%. Down to 10. Okay, so am I looking at $71 a new customer or 10? Well if it's $10 new customer and my, my top line is a $24 AOV that means that my NAOV is approximately $24. That means it give for NMER we put a dollar into the machine. We get $2.40 out of only new customers. And that is how you actually do ad spend to the product categories to a top line NCAC and not wow, you're selling you know, laundry detergent for 1:39. That is if we're confused by that we all should just pack up our shop and go home because we aren't digital marketers. We're basically meta reps. Not in a bad way but meta reps usually tell me that. So that's what I'm like.

A (18:21)

You know in the business owner's self defense is. I mean he doesn't know that. So he would look inside meta and say what the hell is John doing? When in fact like there is a method to this. This isn't careless media buying. This is actually highly sophisticated media buying because you are not using one source of truth air Quotes in Meta as your guiding light. You're actually using the real source of truth, which is what is your NCAC inside Shopify? Like what. What are you actually acquiring a customer for? But you're using meta as a benchmark to determine are you going in the right direction, are you trending in the right direction? And does that correlate with the source of truth inside Shopify?

C (19:08)

Yep. And to put the kind of like the icing on the cake is after we did that on the second.

A (19:13)

Yep.

C (19:14)

You see that Amazon has now 20 more sales. Facebook has 140 more sales. Google Ads has 14 more sales. I'm not what this is, but that went up by 100%. But it's only one and emails made, you know, one more sale. So here's what's funny is green, green, green, green, green. Now watch this. What does this tell you about. Mmm. When you can increase your Facebook spend, you can decrease your Amazon spend. Facebook gets 139% better and Amazon spending basically $575 less makes 20% more sales. So do we see Amazon really moving the needle or is Amazon like the really good shopping cart that offers free next day shipping that is just kind of pissing off your Shopify?

A (19:57)

Yeah, yeah, it's. It's the one at the end of the line that's saying, that was me.

C (20:05)

I made that.

A (20:06)

Yeah, memory we can use for Amazon. But like the recommendation here was, oh, yeah, the selfish child. This is like, no, no, no, no, no, look at me, look at me, look at me. Thankfully I didn't have one of those kids. Anyway, the point is this is that the recommendation was, you need to reduce your Amazon spend. Yeah, they were overspending on Amazon, not getting the greatest advice from the Amazon management. And you said, well, if you really want to increase your overall media efficiency ratio, we're just teeing everything up. You don't have to spend to get that customer on Amazon. They're going to come naturally anyway because we've already made them aware of your great product over on Meta.

C (20:46)

And remember what I said, that we've increased our efficacy on Facebook by 100%, basically by 100 better, 100 more Aspen and a better CPA. Well, that was offset by a fairly large chunky platform that doesn't do that much. So that 100 is actually only worth 8% at the top line. But if we took Amazon and dropped another two grand, your NCAT could probably be in the $9 or in the $8.

A (21:08)

Yeah, good point.

C (21:10)

The other. And the other thing that I think that is really, really interesting.

A (21:12)

Yeah, this is.

C (21:13)

Watch how disconnected the whole world is because of CPA inside the platform. Simply due to the fact that John Moran said ad spend on a particular product is more important than anything you could ever think about. In terms of moving the needle, obviously, yes, you have to have fantastic creative and hook rates include the race but spend on those is extremely important and it is so much so important that I can take an additional 25, 50, 751 an additional $125 in additional ad spend over the course of two weeks and literally change the outcome of every single channel including Amazon that is spending five grand to my little 750 or $1200. Ad spend in MMM moves the needle more than anything. And if I listened to the in platform and CPA and Google I would have been like the other six digital agencies that failed on this client.

A (22:04)

Done.

C (22:05)

Boom.

A (22:06)

You know what I just realized we have thank you for that through your headphone drop. Five minutes left to answer like 50 questions.

C (22:16)

Let's do this. I, I do want to show the Google thing. I don't know if we're going to get the questions today and I, I'm just gonna be chock full of good information but I do want to share something that is extremely, extremely cool that we saw this week on another client.

A (22:28)

For us to like take these questions from Streamyard, like push them into next week's X. I hope so. Yeah.

C (22:34)

I don't think there is a way.

A (22:35)

To do it anyway time here. Anyway you show what you got to show. So.

C (22:38)

All right, so let's, let's do this. And I'm so sorry for everyone that has questions. Please if you can bring them next week. I think it's important but this is something that we did this exactly with is I, I don't want to become the meta show. I want to obviously do meta and Google because NMM is important. We're balanced exactly right. This right. So this is the last seven days. This is a new creative update to meta and how it impacted Google Ads on either a first click or non first click new. Check this out. It's insane. And this is where people that run Google or their heads are going to spin because they're not used to this. And now I hope I have proof and I hope now people can see the light. Check this out. Our spend in Google in the last seven days reduced by 20%. Right. We then revamped our meta strategy with brand new creative doing 2/3 video hope focusing on high hook Race, yada, yada, yada. Everything that you guys have been literally beaten over the head for the last three weeks. My first first click new customer stayed flat 50 to 50. It is exactly the same. Right. But my new customer purchase went up 37%.

A (23:45)

Customer. Oh, okay, got it.

C (23:47)

Okay, now new customer to Google. Yeah, yeah, you went up 37%. You made actually 55% more revenue. Look at that. Your 10 or your 14 grand went to 20 GS. Good job. Wow. How did I do that with 19% less ad spend? Well, that's because if you actually took the 19 less ad spend and see where the first click new customers came from, that actually went down 14%. So wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Hold on. What happened? I spent 19% less. Did I make 14% less or did I make 55% more on both new customers?

A (24:17)

Well, spend less on Google.

C (24:19)

Exactly. The people that came from Google are 14 less. But the people that came over from Meta that Google took credit for is 55 better. Wait a minute. Look at the. Oh, like the shifts and how much Google takes so much credit for everything else. But when you, when you hack off the first click now your ad spend and your revenue is the exact same. Meta though, is increasing and it's getting better. Now how do we prove that? Well, the branded search that spent 28% more did also get 56% more new customers. Wow. Did they come from first click? I mean, one did. Well, what. But what about my new customers that didn't do first click? It's 2.3. So that's a ratio of 28% more spend, 11% more in first click, which means you're hemorrhaging cash on your brand from first click. You cannot grow brand. But what about new customers just overall? Well, yeah, you spent 28% more and got 29% more if you count meta. Aha. So the differences between first click and new customer and new customer, the spend descending first click went down, but new customers went up. Why? Because we actually reallocated spend out of Google, pushed it into Meta, revamped it, and the gain on Meta has been so much better on Meta and to the top line that it bled over to Google. Google was able to reduce its spend to get 55% more new customers, but it didn't come from there. It's beautiful.

A (25:43)

Oh, I love this stuff. If you've been watching this show for any period of time, that's like the ultimate manifestation of what we so many times over and over again. You can't brand name search your way to success on Google.

C (26:00)

Right. Joe Rogan just booked a call with us for next week, so it's amazing. Thank you, Joe Rogan.

A (26:06)

That's awesome. All right. Hope you enjoyed this week's episode. Of course, all the links that we mentioned, everything that we talked about in today's show is over@perpetualtraffic.com inside the show notes and of course wherever you listen to podcasts, make sure that you leave us a rating and or review. We really appreciate that. Helps us get out to a wider audience, teach people how to do things the right way in digital marketing today through metrics that matter and growth that scales and bringing counterintuitive advice like today's show and in this three part series about why you shouldn't be pausing your winning ads Inside Meta because of the Andromeda Update, which like I've said is the biggest change that we've seen in 10, 12 years doing this digital marketing stuff. So on behalf of my amazing co host, Lauren E. Petrulo, till next show, see ya. You've been listening to Perpetual Traffic.