Loading summary
Transcript89 lines
- [00:00]
A
What do I need to do to have drastic radical growth? I want to jump from 8 million to 15 million next year without just investing in ads.
- [00:07]
B
Most businesses don't do that. They're so busy doing the thing every single day, they never take time out to say, hey, let's reevaluate. Where are we right now marketing right now? You need to be on the cutting edge. And we feel like everything that we're talking about here right now is the stuff that's going to lead you to success in 2026.
- [00:27]
A
You're listening to Perpetual Traffic.
- [00:32]
B
Hey, before we get into today's show, just a quick reminder that we are still offering the creative diversification package over at tier 11. 30 plus creatives per month, five to seven variations every single week. Plus you get the media buying and the Tier 11 data suite for free. This offer is through the end of the year. And now is the perfect time for you to meet with our team and plan out your Q1, Q2 and Q3, exactly like we're going to be talking about here. The learnings that you will gain from Black Friday Cyber Monday. This is the opportune time to talk with our team about how you can Crush it in 2026 using creative diversification. It's the biggest breakthrough on Meta since ads in the newsfeed back in 2013. Once again, you buy the creative diversification package, you get the media buying and the Tier 11 data suite for free limited time offer through the end of the year. Check it out over at tier11.com forward/cd. Hello, and welcome to the Perpetual Traffic Podcast. This is your host, Ralph burns, founder and CEO of Tier 11, alongside my amazing, much more relaxed co host, Lauren.
- [01:43]
A
E. Petrulo, the founder of Mongoose Media.
- [01:45]
B
So glad you joined us here today. If you're a director of marketing, VP of marketing, running your own show, doing your marketing, or just a marketing manager, this is the show for you. And today we're going to talk about the number one most important thing that you need to figure out right now in December 2025 to set yourself up for 2026. But before we get into that, we want to do a little show and tell, because me and Lauren went on a shopping spree for Black Friday Cyber Monday. And oddly enough, we bought a lot of the same thing we did, which is crazy. Like, neither one of us planned this, but yeah, it's nuts. So what did you get? I know you got, like, a lot of good goodies. Oh, probably at better prices than I got them. I didn't wait until Black Friday Cyber Monday. I waited like a week.
- [02:34]
A
Oh, I waited till Black Friday. And I worked all the credit card deals, like, oh, my gosh, if no one uses a Capital One Venture X card or any Capital One cards, like, you missed out because I just got like 8% back on so much of the stuff that I bought.
- [02:47]
B
It's fantastic.
- [02:48]
A
On top of the Black Friday discounts. Yeah. You and I are talking about. We both got roadie mics, mic arms, camera mount so that I can have phone. I'm using my phone right now as the camera for this recording, but it's like hanging on by a thread to a broken tripod piece. I got new headphones because the AirPods 2 just broke on one side. I got a new desk chair. I just got stuff from my office, essentially. But I was really excited because the only thing I've gotten so far are my roadie mics. And while I got wireless ones and I got the USB C1, the same one that you got. The difference is, Ralph, your stuff is black and my stuff is hot pink.
- [03:25]
B
Yours is hot pink. Of course it should be. Yeah. I have the DJIA Bluetooth microphone set. It's so good. Like the Bluetooth microphone sets there now. And I looked at the roadie. Is it rode or roadie? I don't really even know.
- [03:42]
A
I think, you know what, if they want to sponsor this episode or sponsor a future show, we'll pronounce it correctly.
- [03:47]
B
Yeah. Like, so much stuff of theirs. Like, look at this. I bought like, two of these. Like, this is one for you, by the way. Like, when you come here. We're going to do live in studio podcast this year. And I got, let's see, two Zoni Sony. So easy for me to say. Sony ZV1F vlog cameras.
- [04:09]
A
Okay, that's Alphabet soup.
- [04:10]
B
I know. Anyway, but it's a really good camera from our boy Ian Garlic, who recommended that. I actually got those, like, months ago. But I did get the Podcaster Pro 2 mixing board, which I can't really show because I think I'll, like, unplug something. But anyway, it's like, totally badass. It's got all these, like, colors and everything on it for multiple. We can actually have, like, three mics going on in this studio here, which is so cool because you're going to come here and hang out for a couple of days. We're going to do a bunch of podcasts and do cool stuff here in Boston. But so it's in prep for that. And so before I got all that. I had to upgrade my laptop because my whole laptop was like totally sucking the bed. And I got like the top of the line Apple M4, which is absolutely insanely great.
- [04:58]
A
Amazing.
- [04:59]
B
It was like, like $4200 or something. Crazy for a laptop. Yeah. My admin was like, is this a. Is this an actual charge or is this like a fraudulent charge? I was like, yeah, it's actually. It's okay. But is the best laptop. I just got like the top of the line. And so that's going to be setting up us, setting us up for success for the podcast studio here in Brooklyn, Massachusetts for 2026. Not to mention, like all kinds of, like road gear. Like, look at this. Should be a podcast sponsor. See, I got like two of these. Yeah, like, holy cow. And you got two of them too, right?
- [05:38]
A
Well, I got one of the arms or whatever the Alphabet soup is. And then I got the USB C mic. I actually. Okay, fun fact, I found it used like $80, like, barely users this. Like, I've always gotten stuff from Best Buy that's like open box because it's like, okay, they have the same warranties. They have everything set up. It's like, it's open boxed.
- [05:58]
B
I got it from like, if you're missing like a screw somewhere or something like that. That's why I don't do the open box.
- [06:05]
A
But you have an abundance of time to return it if it doesn't make sense.
- [06:09]
B
It's true.
- [06:10]
A
And I'm like, okay. Like, I. I got it in white and I'm putting my hot pink top over it anyways. And I'm like, fantastic. This is easy. I was like, I just saved $80. I'm gonna use that $80 and then buy a tea kettle.
- [06:24]
B
Buy a tea kettle. Oh, last thing I got was the. This new microphone right here, which has been like, I finally installed it, finally put it together and it's the Shure SM7B, which I really do like. But I love the road podcaster mics. Like, that's the one that I have in the other studio. So anyway, so the studio is going to be set up of these and then this is going to be like a third mic. And then I bought you headphones too. So you have, you have your own set of headphones.
- [06:51]
A
Look, I use the Sony ones, but I got these a friend of mine, T, he runs radio shows here in Orlando. So I got these Sony nice ones that he said I'd swear by. But I will say that anyone that's like, not Bored with all of our Black Friday hauls. Like going back to just like one really quick hack. If someone wants to spend a few minutes of time like Target had. If you bought a hundred dollar Amazon gift. Sorry, if you bought a hundred dollar Apple gift card, you got 15 free from Target. So I was like, great, I have stuff I'm gonna buy from Apple. So I just got a bunch of free money to Target. So that was easy. So I was like, okay, I got that. And then with Apple, when you buy something from Apple, they give you a $50 gift card. So if you're like Veripas Pro 3 for example is 250 bucks, or it's 220 at Walmart or 220 at Target. Now I live for savings. Like, like I get it. Like we, it's not that big of a deal. But like this kind of stuff just like brings me so much joy. Like I wish I was a couponer in my past life because like comparing the 220 versus 250. But then you get a $50 Apple gift card if you buy it from Apple. But then I bought the gift cards from Target and I got these carried over and then looking at like with Capital One, I got 6% or 4% or 5% or 8% back. And I was like, I'm winning this Black Friday because I literally like I got 8% back for my Samsung. Like it's like a seventeen hundred dollar monitor. But I got it on sale and I got 18, 8% back. Like all this kind of stuff. Like look at gift cards from other stores and see if they give you a gift card match and then buy those, then go to in store in Apple, pay with the gift cards you just got, get in another $50 back. So you're just taking both ends of the same Apple.
- [08:34]
B
That's pretty good. Yeah, so I mean that's a, that's a nice hack right there. I didn't know that one. I just kind of was haphazard all over the place. Like I did some stuff on Black Friday someplace on Cyber Monday and then I did some on like the week before. So I should have done it all at once. But anyway, that's just kind of the way my brain works. I'm like, oh, I gotta get that. Oh I gotta get that. And so I just sort of got it all. But anyway, this all has to do with planning now this is a time of year, isn't it like to plan for 2026? Because that's what we're doing. We're setting ourselves up for success for 2026. Because, hey, you know, we're top three podcast right now. But you know, Apple, itunes, sometimes it's kind of quirky, like we want to be number one. Like that's our goal. I'm just going to say it right now. Like I think our stuff is better than anybody else's that's out there. Sorry, all you marketing podcast people, a lot of who I know are going to be pissed off when they hear this, but point is, is like we're actually doing this stuff every single day. You and I, agency owners. It's not theory. You know, even like when Andrew Foxwell was on here. That's great. Like he's, he's awesome, he was a great guest, but he's actually not running ads like a whole lot, so. But I love his take on everything and especially like a lot of the things that we did when we Talked about the MetaGem update, the Andromeda update and the Lattice update, which is all sort of all these updates all coming together, which is all the application of AI. The point is, is like marketing right now, you need to be on the cutting edge. And we feel like everything that we're talking about here right now is the stuff that's going to lead you to success in 2026. Not to toot our own horn, but that's probably the reason why you listen.
- [10:11]
A
To the first place.
- [10:12]
B
So what I've found is this though, is that a lot of businesses and a lot of even agencies forget to kind of reconfigure, reset, set yourself up for success by setting an actual goal. Like what the hell is it that you want to do in your business? What is it that you want to do? Like, my son just got a job in the medical sales industry. He has a quota every two weeks. He knows exactly where he stands right now. He was like 127% a goal like during the Thanksgiving week. And he worked like all weekend and he's now he's ahead because he started another two week sprint. So like completely measurable goals, which I always go back to the old adage, smart goals, which is specific, measurable, achievable, relevant and time bound. And a lot of businesses don't have these. And I'm finding this out. And this is not what you should be doing right now. You should be setting yourself up for success. Think to yourself, what is it that you want to achieve in 2026, 2027, 28. Usually a 1 year, 3 year, 5 year goal is the most important thing. And then direct your marketing department and or your agency to achieve that goal. And oh by the way, make it transparent. Tell them what you want. Yeah, they're your partner, they're the people that are going to help you get there. But find this is something that's really lacking. And it's crazy to think do you.
- [11:44]
A
See the same, I mean I think where people that are listening like, but I have goals. You might have goals at the department level or at the employee level or at the team level, but again going back to like the company level and I think once someone hits like their say they have eight employees and they have like maybe five to 13 contractors or something, they lose sight of that transparency because they're managing too many different things that they don't communicate from the top what the true north is. And then having that being broken down by department, by quarter, by month, by week down. I, I see that people have goals but it's aligned to whatever their department is or whatever their channel is. Like I'll know someone's gonna be like oh, I need to do $270,000 a week in Klaviyo. Like okay, but like again how does it sync to the bigger goal? And is that in automations sitting campaigns, is it, how is the distribution? So I would say that like I don't see that people don't have goals. I just see that people have conflicting goals or goals that they're like I can hold myself accountable for this because I know I can do this versus having that incrementality mindset of what's my contributional to the overall growth and success of the company, which is there are a lot of business owners like okay, I'm spending more or less the same, maybe a little bit more and I'm getting more or less the same. And they're like what do I need to do to have drastic radical growth? I want to jump from 8 million to 15 million next year without just investing in ads. It's like okay, like you said, what is that actual goal? If it's a revenue based goal, okay, then make sure all of your tactics and strategies align towards that 15 million goal.
- [13:29]
B
Right. I think that's a really good example of where it might get lost. And as I was just having conversations with some of our team about the point of contacts that we have for the business is not the one who's probably setting the big business goal. The CEO, you know, the CFO probably aren't on the weekly calls. So my question to my team was okay, they want to do this new thing, new way of acquiring customers or getting awareness or whatever. It happens to be a slight change. I was pulled in, which is great. Like, I love to like high level strategy stuff. So, like, get my opinion on it, what I think, how they should launch it. And my first question was, well, why? What does the client want? What do they want in 2026? What is the goal? And unfortunately, in this case, they didn't know because the contact is relatively new. Just fine. And they've been sort of communicating with the contact, which is like our point of point of contact. It's one of the marketing managers. So the point is. But the CEO and the founder, what are their goals? Like what, what is the marketing manager trying to do? Utilizing us as an agency in order to achieve the goals for the business. And don't tell me it's a 2x roas on Facebook, because that's not it. That doesn't get you to a goal. That's a metric. Point is, is like your team, your marketing team should understand what the goal of the business is. And if you're, if you're talking about directing an internal marketing team or you're talking about utilizing an agency, bring them into the fold on this. Let them like be a little bit vulnerable. It's okay. Because as soon as you break down those barriers, all of a sudden you then become a partner as opposed to a vendor, or you become a partner as opposed to just an employee. Somebody who just, you know, I'm running ads every single day, but I have no idea what I'm doing. I'm no, I have no idea what the big picture is. So. But I, I feel like oftentimes that goal gets lost in translation, which is kind of your point. It's like they have different goals. Like, the marketing manager has one goal, but what does that really mean in the grand scheme? Like, what is it actually trying to do for the business? Does that make sense?
- [15:47]
A
It totally does because the marketing manager is going to ask to position your efforts towards their growth metrics. Like, I literally had this conversation a few weeks ago where someone was like, my performance bonus is a hundred percent based on this KPI. So. So I need you to shift budgets and help me get my holiday bonus. I'm like, okay, but that's contrary. You want to put budgets in something that's going to deter the overall objective for the account. And their direction was, yes, I understand, but it's my income. And I was like, what do you do in that? Unfortunately, I'm able to coordinate and like, hey, let's just like, recalibrate. Is this actually what we want to go after? But to that marketing manager, I don't think all the time it's going to be as obvious in that case. Like, when someone has a performance metric based off of someone else, I was like, that's, that's cheating in a way. But for the most part, I think it's going to be diluted to whatever they perceive the goal to be from the limited scope that they have on the entirety of the business. Like, there might be a business that's expanding, that's being acquired by an international firm that's in the current merger and acquisition space, where either they're selling or they're buying a local firm. Like, there's a lot of other moving pieces that when we intentionally leave out those that are doing the work and we don't have that transparency, you aren't going to leverage as much opportunity as that's available to you.
- [17:06]
B
I mean, I always sort of think, like, for tier 11, we have revenue goals and then we have retention goals, and then we have weekly client goals, and then the, like, everything's sort of broken down for, you know, annual, quarterly, monthly, and even weekly in most cases. And I find that in most, most businesses, when you really probe them, they don't have even like an annual goal.
- [17:31]
A
Oh, well, I think they'll have like an annual goal in revenue because they're going to say, like, okay, I made $21 million last year. I'd like to make $24 million this year. And it's like, those that are like, I'd like to make sure I make more of last year without spending more. Like, this is like this gradual kind. And then. Or I'll have people that are like, no, I want to go from 6 million to 18 million in one year without investing heavily. So it's like, I have, like, I'm not saying delusional in any capacity. I'm just saying under resourced goals or super easily attainable under invested goals. And I don't mean invested from a financial standpoint, but underinvested into the opportunity standpoint. So it's where, like, I'll have people that'll say, like, they'll have a goal of like, yeah, I want to do this amount of revenue, but they're not dialing deep enough into. It's like, okay, but is that revenue coming? Like, just. Are we just talking about revenue? It feels like a lazy type of goal versus, like, if you're, if you're trying to do X number in revenue. Okay, I understand, but I would employ, like you and I talked earlier, it's like, well, are you trying to double your customers? Are you trying to increase your average order value? Are you trying to increase the retention time? Like, if you have people that stay with your agency for four and a half years, if you can increase that to five and a half years, that's significantly more revenue that you then don't have to compensate with the cost of acquiring a new customer. Or like, if you're doing revenue, Is it this amount of revenue at a specific mer? Well, I just think it's. It's not specific enough, but people have it. They're just lazy. Sorry.
- [19:04]
B
I think having a revenue goal is a good place to start.
- [19:08]
A
Yes.
- [19:09]
B
I mean, I find in most cases, you know, and I think back to the dozens of sales prospect calls I've been on the last three months that I always ask that question, well, what do you guys want? Like, what do you. What are we trying to help you achieve? It's amazing how many people stumble just with that. Oh, I want to make my Facebook ads more efficient, was one answer that I remember getting this past year. Like, that's not really a goal. And they were a 10 million plus dollar company. They were not a small company. So. Well, what does that really mean to you? It's like, well, it means that we'll be able to influence more people. Okay, well how are you going to do that? Well, they're in the real estate investing niche, for example. Well, we could help. What we really want to do is we want to be able to help a thousand more people this year. It's a goal that's suddenly it's like, all right, I think I asked a few more questions. I'm sort of remembering that this off the cuff, it was like, all right, now we went from, you know, making my Facebook ads more efficient to getting a thousand new customers and exerting more influence. And if they get a thousand new customers, then we could do the math backwards and figure out what that means for revenue. And then we sort of went back and forth on that. And they say, well, we really want to focus on the three different products. We want to focus on the highest end product and maybe not the two lower end products that are. Was like, all right, well if you get a thousand new customers, what do you want that product mix to be? And now we're actually talking about, like, we're having a real business conversation here. So. And then if you pull that out And I think it was they stratified it with 50% of their new customers. They wanted in their high end product. It was 35% in and around there for the middle product and then 15% for the low end product. And so we added that all up and we figured out, okay, that is taking you from 10 million basically to about 13 million in revenue, if I recall correctly. It was like 13.5. I said, how does that sound? Does that sound about right? And they're like, yeah, that sounds right. And their whole goal was not necessarily more revenue, but when now we have a revenue goal, we have a customer goal. Because their big goal was. And they also had a retention goal, which was another part because I think they had, I think I had about a thousand customers, about 2000 customers as I recall. So this was a, you know, this was a 50% increase. It's not insignificant. But they wanted to change the product mix from most of their 2,000 customers that they have right now are on their lower end product. They wanted to shift that more towards their higher end product. So what would that mean for revenue? How many customers do we need to get? And then we went through the NCAT calculator. Okay, okay, let's figure out what you can, what you can afford to pay to acquire a customer. And if you don't have the in calculator, it's over at two11.com forward/ncac. Just download it and get it there. We've done tons of shows on this. We'll put links in the show notes for that. So like through this conversation, this is just one or two initial sales calls. This is a $10 million company that had no idea really what they wanted to do. And they pluck sort of things out of thin air. But behind it all was sort of this session where they actually, I got the feeling they had never done this before. And I was really happy to be a part of that because I've done this plenty of times with, you know, lots of businesses. Because most businesses don't do that. They're so busy doing the thing every single day. They never take time out to say, hey, let's reevaluate. Where are we right now? And I always go back to this a lot. Cause we do this every single quarter for tier 11. We follow EOS, the entrepreneurial operating system. And we all get together every 90 days. Our leadership team, I'm flying to, you know, Australia. I went to London. Yeah. Three months ago, I'm flying to Australia because now most of my leadership team is now in Australia, porn as is, which is going to be great, by the way. I'm going to take two New Zealand, which is going to be fantastic. The point is, it's like we spend, we take that time, two, three days. Okay, what are our. And that's. We are going to do our annual, we're going to reset our annual goal and then we're going to figure out, okay, how many customers do we actually need? And we're going to do the math backwards and what does our retention rate need to be in order to hit that goal? So the more granular you get. And yes, smart goal setting is great. We'll leave links in the show notes, specific, measurable, achievable, time and resource bound. The point is, is I don't think businesses even get to that point. And I would encourage anybody who's listening right now, and you're in a marketing department, if is to get very, very specific on what the company goal is. What is the founder, what does the CEO, what does the CFO want in 2026 and start doing that planning now. And that's I think the key to success. I'm amazed at how many businesses don't do it. That's why we're doing the show here today.
- [24:08]
A
I'm going to push one more thing on that because while it's easier to like take, hey, here's the revenue goal, work back, how many customers do we need, at what price point, with which products again spend an assumed life, like lifetime value on them and your retention, all that stuff, I would say that's like something that someone can achieve within 90 minutes, if not less, depending on where you guys are. I would actually push you to have even deeper conversations, which is okay. Once you've established what those are, you need to then look at what resources do you have available in which you can achieve it and then what are the additional resources you're looking at investing? I'm not saying this is necessarily gonna work for everyone, but this has been working for me at least where it's like we're mapping out what do we want from 2026. And then I have like our sheet where it's like Q1, Q2, Q3, Q4, with key hires that need to happen in each quarter that support specific goals within each department. So I'm not saying like this is going to be necessarily easy for everyone. I would just challenge you. Like once you understand what are your goals, then you need to backfill back or backfill back. Okay, that was, that was funny. You need to go, yeah, you need to rabbit back to understand how are you going to fulfill it. Is your current marketing team set up for success? Like if you're saying that you're trying to do an increase of new customers, like, is there an additional channel that you're going to penetrate? Is there new investments into marketing? If you're going to be increasing your ad spend, say $100,000 a month, you need to have the creative investment that supports that additional ad spend. You need to be mindful of like operational level. Like, what is the impact if you're taking on an additional 20% growth of customers month over month? You need to understand, like, are there any software implications that are going to need to be like upgraded or increased? Like those small things I think are like the next level for the person who's like, oh, I know how to do this, I can build my revenue, I can build out my quarters, break it down annual, quarterly, monthly, weekly into that. And then I would say just also look at the resources needed to make that happen. And then you meet every quarter. So you just have to, once you define it, you need to hold your team accountable to course correct, at least on a quarterly basis to understand are we driving towards our North Star? Which you need to have a clear North Star. Are your efforts yielding what you need to be? Do you need to shift efforts? Do you need, do you need to try something new? Do you need to double down on what's working? Those type of check ins, I think will matter more than you can imagine. And that has to be done with the same people that do the planning.
- [26:41]
B
Yeah, you can definitely do it in 90 minutes. I find that getting everybody in a room and talking through it is really, really helpful because then it gets everybody. There's a couple of different reasons for it. First off, it's not, it stops becoming just my goal. Like I'm not CEO founder guy, but I, first off, I value the opinion of my leadership team. So I want their opinions, I want to tell, I want them to tell me what they think, but I also want them to feel like a part of the goal setting. So this is also a leadership strategy as well. Like eos and the whole thing with Traction and Gino Wickman and the whole entrepreneurial operating system is about leadership, but also taking breaks and being very, very specific on what your weekly, monthly, quarterly actions are that help as they compile over time that lead to the ultimate annual goal and then that ultimately leads to the three year goal and then the ten year goal. And so having Your leadership team and having the people that are either vested fully in the business, whether or not you have that in your organization, or whether it's people that are doing the work day in and day out. I think it's really important for goal setting, especially right now, to be done with them because you all get on the same page and you're all equally motivated because you want to. Ultimately, I think people really do want to be a part of building something great and feeling like they're a part of building something great. And if they're a part of the goal setting and then they're a part of the execution, you've achieved something fairly remarkable as a leader because you are getting people to do things, not because you're telling them to do it, because they want to do it. And they also feel like they're a part of building something. And in our case, we have, you know, performance incentives and all these other sorts of things that go along with it. With our big goal, that's like a three to five year goal. So there's always that sort of looming out in the distance. So I think this is something that needs to be done. Yes, it can be done 90 minutes, just you as the founder, but I think the collective part of it, even if you don't have a leadership team, maybe like just your top managers, like get them in a room and say, hey, like this is what I'm going to be doing this year. And like if we hit this goal, like we'll get this. What do you guys think? And also tell me how you think we can get there.
- [29:04]
A
I think it doesn't even have to be leadership. Like there's a lot of great assistants, there are a lot of great contractors, agency providers that can be brought into this conversation as well. So like, I wouldn't limit to be someone who's in a position of power. So having the power dynamic be that like I can tell you at least again, just from my side. Today I met with like our head copywriter and our project manager as we were discussing how we're changing our current billing for when we do paid media management. So it's like, hey, starting with them because it's gonna. Well, one, our lead copywriter is going to be making sure that the everything that we structure and put together in the support from the performance marketing agency plus Creative Studio, does it make sense? And then with the project managers, like, is this going to cause more chaos? Like is this going to make it a clusterfuck essentially, or is this going to support more cohesive structure for our clients and for our pack. So like they're, they're not in like super high leadership positions but they've been with the company for years and they understand the nuances inside and out. So I just, the only thing, I just not exclude those that are not in a part of dynamic. And if I even take it back to like the Disney days, like I remember one of these great projects we did with Disney Cruise Line. So I was on the in house idea agency at Disney and the SVP of cruises, Carl came and said hey, we want to re envision some of the different onboard experiences for these two new ships that are being built. So my team had gathered 60 key decision makers within the cruise line industry at Disney. So dcl, that's the acronym for Disney Cruise Line. So we had like Ken, who is the SP of like events and weddings and all that stuff because that has a contribution. Carl, who's the SB of the cruises himself with three cruise directors. But we also got people that are on ship like those are interacting with the guests on a daily basis. We brought someone who was a housekeeper because she's the one that sees everything that no one else wants to talk about, right. Like what's happening behind doors. We brought the admin staff, we brought a few younger interns. We had 60 people came together for this collective decision making. I'm not saying anyone's going to invest the same amount of resources when redesigning a ship as someone might be for redesigning an offer or funnel or something to that business. But I can tell you, just as you're saying the agency, you empower your team members in this like collective bargaining kind of situation. But for the growth of your business, when you empower those that are not in an obvious position, their contribution in my experience has been better.
- [31:44]
B
You know, it's, it's an interesting question because like we both run virtual companies so it's, it's hard to get that. It's hard to get everybody in a one room together.
- [31:55]
A
And I'm sorry, every time you say room, I'm just like, you're so Boston, you're room together room. You sound like Captain Jack Sparrow asking for a cup of rum. I don't think I'm the only one.
- [32:11]
B
So I'm reading a book right now from Cameron Herold, okay. Called Double Double. My friend Ben, who sold his agency for hundreds of millions of dollars recommend that I, I reread it and I did read it a while back and Cameron Herold actually ran 1, 800, got junk for a while, I think he was. He was the CMO or the CEO. I think it was the COO, actually.
- [32:37]
A
What is 1-800-got- junk? Is this like Chippendales for Men?
- [32:42]
B
Jesus Christ. I knew you would go down that road. Oh, we're gonna get lots of negative comments because of the JC comment. Anyway, no, it's 1-800-got junk. Like, you. You don't know what 1800 go junk is? Like, you have junk that you want to get rid of. They come with a truck. It's 1, 800.
- [32:57]
A
Oh, my gosh. Immediately I thought, like, oh, is this for people removing their, like, ex spouses? Like, get this junk out of here.
- [33:04]
B
My God. Well, it could be.
- [33:05]
A
So it's like deep, like orders.
- [33:07]
B
Health removal could be part of it, I suppose, if you paid enough.
- [33:11]
A
Okay. I like my idea better anyway.
- [33:15]
B
Yeah, it is pretty actually Funny. So, anyway, so 1-800-got junk. They and I got what the annual revenue is. They actually get what you're talking about. They don't do it just for their leadership team. When they're setting their annual goals, they bring in people from every single level, from guys who are driving the trucks to middle managers to administrative assistants, to, you know, floor managers, to warehouse people. They bring them all in.
- [33:45]
A
Not all. They bring representation.
- [33:46]
B
Representation level. And I.
- [33:49]
A
Yes.
- [33:49]
B
You know, it's a fairly select group and I'm sure it's like, oh, why was he chosen instead of me? Kind of thing. There's. You're always going to get that. By the way, 1-800GOT Junk is a $1.3 billion company, including, according to Zoom Info. So, yeah, that's a lot of husbands being part gotten rid of. Anyway, the point is this is that they did exactly what you're saying. I'm like, maybe I should start doing it more widespread, you know, bringing in a proxy from each department and then pulling them in on the annual planning. It's. It's an interesting concept. So. And you're. You're doing it and like, Disney did this.
- [34:30]
A
So Disney did this. And I was the one coordinating and ensuring that we had that different representation. Because you might. You know, the amount of times that this previously happened with Disney, it's great because I could talk about, like, massive budgets. Right. We brought 60 people into a room. We rented out the Contemporary Resort. We had three conference rooms, food, catering, and lodging, all on Disney property. That did not make this a small request when we got asked to radically change the inside experience for several of the different age groups. For the passengers, this was an investment like you have to remember, like assuming a Disney family of four is spending $25,000 for a week vacation, like we needed to invest so that we could ensure that we were going to continue to grab them. So anyways, Disney did this and the amount of times previously it happened where a bunch of older users who were out of touch with the current market made decisions that were completely irrelevant for the people down. I'm just going to give the easiest example and I'm not saying this is a Disney one, but there is another high enterprise client that we consult with. They were so out of touch that their entire fiscal year marketing plan was around the English speaking family. When their largest growing division were Spanish speakers. They had nothing to accommodate the massive population that is flocking to their environment. Like, like it was so tone deaf that when we were brought in all of the stores rejected all of the marketing collateral because they said it will be embarrassing to put this in our storefronts because it is so disconnected from who our consumer actually is. And that was because it was all these individuals that when they were in those positions 20, 30 years ago, that was the environment that they were accustomed to.
- [36:27]
B
Interesting.
- [36:30]
A
My gosh, that was hard.
- [36:32]
B
Anyway, that will, I mean Disney like made that mistake.
- [36:37]
A
No, that wasn't Disney. It was, it was a retail store. It was something different. And then it was just there. The store owners had sent back all of the stuff. So there was, it was a combination of franchise and then individually owned. And so many of them were like, why are you asking me? Like I would. Maybe I'll use an example because I can't. I'm on NDA. But I think American Eagle I believe or Aerie. They have like the natural look. Like they want people of all different sizes. Right. They want people to feel comfortable in their pajamas. And then imagine you get all these size 0 blond hair, blue eyed individuals with their story. Anytime you walk into that department, you can't see a blonde hair, blue eyed individual. What you see is like every color of the rainbow under the sun. Like it looks like the United nations inside these stores and it's amazing. But when all of your marketing is reflecting a population that's not present, it's out of touch.
- [37:26]
B
So they were totally missing that entire.
- [37:29]
A
Oh, it was, it was like the, the conversations around how mad the store owners were. Like they're like they sent it all back. They trashed it. There were social media campaigns, they were like loud about why is this happening? It just wasn't great. So what Disney did overcome that Stuff. And what I guess the junk guys are doing and what Ralph is going to be doing is inviting more people to the conversation so that we can hear a diversity of opinions. I would challenge you. It's like, have someone from each generation present because it's a great learning opportunity. You've got Gen Alpha that's coming into the mix and you empower everyone. Like, you cannot leave boomers out of the conversation if your market is predominantly younger because they still have experience, they still have contribution. I seen this with another account that we consult with out of la. They will not take the advice of their older staff because they said their older staff's not on TikTok and that's where the majority of their sales come into. I was like, but they still have contribution. Anyways. All that to say, like, I invite you to have people from different generations. I invite you to have people from different departments. You do not need everyone. It should be chosen. And then it can become like a. A special. How do I work to get my KPI so that I'm at that meeting next time?
- [38:40]
B
Yeah. So, I mean, I think there's a. There's a dual message here, is that, first off, goal setting right now and setting yourself up for success. This is the perfect time to be doing this. We're, as of recording this, we're going to be, you know, this will be aired mid December, which is exactly the time, probably right before Christmas. You're going to have some time, obviously, as either the director of marketing or the CEO, sort of think about what you want for 2026. But I would highly encourage you to start that planning right now. Whether or not you go wide with who you get input from or you go narrow. The point is, is that you do it.
- [39:18]
A
You start.
- [39:18]
B
I think if you're considering, hey, maybe I should include more department heads or people from my warehouse and then, you know, maybe some of my drivers. Like, at least you're thinking that way. And that's better than not thinking and not even having any specifics on it.
- [39:33]
A
It's better than not thinking. I don't know. Sometimes I see marketing strategies where I'm like, who? It'd just be better to just not think this was. No.
- [39:41]
B
Well, we'll think back to the example that I just said, like, we want to make our Facebook ads more efficient. Like, that was the goal. Until it was like, why do you want to do that? Why do you want to do that? Like, keep asking that question. So in most cases, you can go all the way through to the why to find the actual why of your business, which I didn't do in this case, and I've done this plenty of times in boardrooms where I go, all right, well, why do you want that? Why do you want this? And then you actually figure out what their vision is.
- [40:07]
A
I think Charles Duhig talks about, like, the power of three wise deep in his Super Communicators book, actually. And we just had him online. I don't know if he came up with that first or is like. Or if I'm misattributing it to someone else. But yeah, it's like when you go deeper and deeper and deeper and like, we literally just had a great conversation with him where it's the power of extracting what is it they actually want and need. Because if you're delivering for the wrong want, you're going to be held accountable to a need you couldn't fulfill.
- [40:33]
B
Yeah, very true, very true. And by the way, side note, I did use some of his techniques on my head.
- [40:40]
A
Uncle Bob.
- [40:43]
B
Bob. Uncle Bob didn't come. Oh, yeah, he didn't. He actually. He, like, he did his own thing.
- [40:49]
A
I was like, aunt Mary called 1-800-JUNK.
- [40:51]
B
Yeah, it was Uncle Jeff, actually, who did come. Okay. Yeah. And then there was Cousin Todd, Uncle. Uncle Jeff and Cousin Todd. They actually really got along.
- [41:00]
A
Well. You sound so Bostonian, White American, Uncle Jeff, Cousin Todd. I'm like, okay, great. Is there Aunt Mary?
- [41:08]
B
That's who there was. Yeah. My sister's Mary. Yeah, Mary Carol, by the way. Anyway, the point is, is I did try some of those Charles Duhigg techniques. High school reunion Friday. And there's a reason why I still don't hang out with people from high school.
- [41:26]
A
Oh, no. Why deep?
- [41:28]
B
None of them wanted to get deep. It was all surface level conversations. It didn't actually work. But then, you know, when I was talking to one of my buddies who I went there with, I actually. We were talking about a lot of things and I used it on him and he did go deep. Oh, I didn't work all the time. If you're dealing with a person who doesn't like to get deep, it doesn't work. Which is the reason why I don't hang out with a lot of those people from Natick High School anywhere. Sorry. Maybe some of them still listen, but I doubt if they do. The point is this, is that going deep, whether it's conversations like with Charles Duhigg or going deep on goals and figuring out why you're doing what you're doing, is the key to success for 2026. Because if you're not crystal clear on that, you're not crystal clear on your goals, then you know, a goal is just a dream really.
- [42:21]
A
Just going to break out in song, like getting your guitar out and just be like, okay, cool. It's like, I mean, it's just like a fart between your lips. Yeah.
- [42:28]
B
Make it a goal, not just a dream. I mean, you can have a dream, but then turn it into a goal. And we'll leave links in the show notes about specific, measurable, action oriented, relevant, time bound, smart, relevant goals. It's a great article. I'll leave on smart goals, specifically around JFK and how we got to the moon using smart goals. We'll leave that link over in the show notes over@perpetualtraffic.com he did actually. Very, very specific, very measurable, very achievable, relevant and time bound. So anyway, smart goals are definitely the way to go. So set goals at the very least and then go deep in your conversations just like Charles Duhigg.
- [43:08]
A
Yes, please.
- [43:09]
B
Yes.
- [43:09]
A
And do better shopping next year because, oh my gosh, you can win. I, I like, I know it sounds super.
- [43:16]
B
Like, you should have texted me that. Like, wow, I got this hack.
- [43:20]
A
I texted a few people because I was like, oh my gosh, did you find this? Did you find this? Did you find this? And I felt like the inside scoop. I don't know, I was like, oh my gosh, guys. And then friend was like, are you serious? Who cares? And it's like you weren't homeless living in a car once before. Okay, understood. Okay, that's it.
- [43:37]
B
That's it. It sticks with you, stays with you. I think if, like when you become a billionaire, you're still going to be like, doing this.
- [43:44]
A
Look, look, I. I got my tattoo updated. I got $100 million redone and it's already falling out again.
- [43:51]
B
No, only you have to get it retattooed. All right, well, we will leave links in the show notes. We've been obviously talking about goals here. Feel free to download the NCAT calculator, which you can reverse engineer exactly how many customers you need as long as you know what you can afford and are willing and able to pay to acquire a customer. You can do that over at tier11.com forward/ncac or perpetualtraffic.com forward/ncac.
- [44:15]
A
And if you've got goals that you're trying to accomplish in 2026, whether it's goals that you'd like to hear or learn from us on the podcast or goals that you'd like to, you know, help us give you the content to achieve those. Please, like head on over to the reviews. We'd love to hear your opinion and then make sure you put that in your review and we'll see how we can start gearing some of that content so we can help you achieve your goals on the show.
- [44:36]
B
All right. Well, we really appreciate you giving a rating and review but also add in your goals there and we will announce them on the air. So we will hold you to it just like Ben Franklin used to do. Used to write out those goals and then just, you know, write it into the poor man's almanac. That was really. Yeah. All right. So on behalf of my amazing co host Lauren E. Petrulo.
- [44:59]
A
And happy birthday, mom.
- [45:03]
B
Till next show. See ya.
- [45:06]
A
You've been in listening to perpetual traffic.