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Perpetual Traffic
The #1 Mistake That's Secretly Killing Your Meta Andromeda Ads with Cole Turner
00:35:59
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- [00:01]
A
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B
NCAC is often an overlooked metric. Even a small percentage difference in how you're calculating this can take you from breaking even or profiting and growing into a sustainable large company. Or on the contrary, you could be losing money on every single order.
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C
There's huge companies that blow up overnight if they don't get acquired by a VC firm because they've overspent. Without knowing these important metrics.
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B
First step if we want to determine our ncock is you're listening to Perpetual Traffic.
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A
Are you losing hours building campaigns and analyzing reports? Well, activecampaigns AI agents do all the heavy lifting for you. They create content, plan campaigns and orchestrate your email, SMS and your WhatsApp all working towards your revenue goals. You get clear recommendations on what to do next backed by billions of data points. No more guessing about what's working or wasting time on manual setups. Just strategy and results. Try it all for free over at ActiveCampaign. That's ActiveCampaign.com hello and welcome to the Perpetual Traffic Podcast. This is your host, Ralph burns, founder and CEO of Tier11, alongside my incredibly.
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C
Amazing co host Lerni Petrullo, the founder of Mongoose Media.
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A
So glad you joined us here today. And yes, I did get her to blush yet again. If you are a director of marketing, VP of Marketing, cmo running a company trying to figure out this whole digital marketing thing, well, you've arrived at the right place. We teach people how to do this stuff the right way through metrics that matter and growth that scales. And speaking of metrics that matter, we're going to be talking those metrics today. The most important metric of all, Lauren Cost to acquire a new customer. Otherwise known as ncac. If you say it fast, you might get the, you know, the disapproval of the Apple podcast rating system.
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C
However, why don't you do it in your Boston accent? You can say ncac.
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A
CAC nck. So today's show, we have a special guest. It's sort of funny that we've got this guy on after we were trashing the media buyers in our last episode.
- [03:10]
C
No, we're trashing. We're saying goodbye, Rip to what a media buyer used to do.
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A
Right, Right. Not our media buyers, because our media buyers on our have evolved. Amazing. Because they've all media strategists and.
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C
Yeah, they're no longer media buyers, they're media strategists.
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A
Oh, I like that. Actually, that's. That's good. We might need a change in vernacular over at tier 11, but anyway, today we have the king of the mullet, the pressured into getting married. Cole Turner, growth strategist Extraordinaire from Tier 11, here today, showing up all flanneled up from South Carolina. Welcome to the show, Cole Turner.
- [03:51]
B
Thank you. Happy to be here.
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A
So we were giving you a hard time before. It's like your. Your girlfriend is the one that's pressuring you to get married, but you're the one who's getting retargeted for all the wedding rings. So that should tell you right there, that's wrong. She should be the one getting retargeted. Why does she.
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C
I'm defending her. Absolutely not. You want your partner to do something. We all know. We speak to the phone, we start looking on their stuff, we leverage the algorithms to what we want. I say it's fair play.
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A
I don't know, it's just unfair being a guy. Like, why do you.
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C
Oh, come on.
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A
Yeah, I got off early. I got easy, though. 26 years ago, my wife didn't want a wedding ring. We just got wedding bands. Like, how about that? And she didn't want a wedding. We actually eloped. Did you know that, Lauren? I ever tell you that?
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C
I did not know that.
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A
So I got off easy. So I feel bad for guys like Cole.
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C
I'm here for elopements. I asked for an elopement. That's the best.
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A
Yeah, it was totally awesome. It was my best friend, my sister in law and brother in law on a beach on Cape Cod. There you go. Done.
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C
Oh, see, Nia Altman was with Elvis in Vegas and a FaceTime with my mother in law in Italy. Oh, really?
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A
I didn't know you eloped.
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C
Yeah.
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A
Oh, geez. Like, yet another thing we have in common here. All right, well, instead of boring the audience with our elopement, stories here, but we'll continue to just pressure Cole here just because we like to give our guests a hard time. His first time on perpetual traffic. Let's get to the serious stuff. NCAC or ncac, as they say in Boston. The most important metric, I would say, Cole, as growth strategist extraordinaire at tier 11, would you agree, disagree, like, what are your thoughts on this?
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B
NCAC is 100% the most important metric for any business because if you just look at something like cac, for example, like Total Blended cac, you aren't looking at a picture of growth within the business. So we might have a great CAC on Meta, for example, but we might be retargeting everyone who's already in the bottom of the funnel that has purchased three times and just placing a view through conversion on them and then they were going to buy anyways and we all come together and say, hey, our CAC is great. And then we come back six months later and it's like, where's the cash in the business? Where's the lifeblood? So ncac, I think, is a measure of the growth of the business.
- [06:09]
A
Yeah, I agree. I mean, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I mean there's obviously there's MPIs that are important, like the marketing performance indicators. All of them are important. And of course you can get that over@yourleven.com MP but today's show is actually all about NCAC, which is front and center on those MPIs and the spreadsheet that we're going to actually go through today, you the listener or you the watcher can get that over on our site for free. Tier11.com NCAC and that is N C A C if you don't know how to spell it's. There's no KS in there, I'm pretty sure. So today you actually found a hole in the one that we were doing using initially.
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C
I love when we find our.
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A
I know we find our own M. We've now fixed that and we're human. Yeah. So the challenge was this and I think I actually did a video on this a while back, a chalkboard video, but it was a beauty brand that was reporting to you as the growth strategist what their costs were, but it didn't quite measure up. Can you sort of set the stage for us, like how we found this mistake, how we rectified it and we'll even go through the NCAT calculator and of course we'll be doing this over on our YouTube channel, perpetualtropic.com YouTube, if you're just listening. So set this one up for us.
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B
Yeah. So the context was we had established NCAG goals for the brand itself, but I noticed that when we would speak to the client, there was like a sense of urgency and a sense of confusion almost about the business's health as a whole. So it was like, how are we determining this ncac? And just a lot of other ancillary questions that led me to think that the business might not actually be as healthy and that the ad performance might not be as strong as what we originally had thought. So I went through and I looked at the calculator that was being used to calculate their ncac, and I realized that the cost of sale percentage, which is essentially the portion of your revenue per order that is eaten up by variable costs. And notice that that was calculated using just cost of goods sold. And so we had an artificially low NCAT goal because this cost of sale percentage was incorrectly calculated and was too low. So we were going with an NCAC that we thought was profitable or breakeven for the business, when in reality they were hemorrhaging cash to acquire new customers.
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A
Yeah, so, and there's cogs, which a lot of people just think of as, let's say you're manufacturing a product. It is the. It is the cost of the raw materials, the wholesale cost, like that cost that goes into the physical goods. Like, look at, you know, any, like, bottle of moisturizer. It'd be the plastic bottle, it'd be the stuff that you actually put in it, and then the top and then the packaging, that's cost of goods sold. But it's. If you look at that as cost of sales, it's actually incomplete. So maybe just draw a differentiation between, like, what people sort of traditionally will think as, like, cost of goods sold, but what's actually cost of sales and how you equate that.
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B
In this particular case, everyone that I know or I've seen when they talk about gross margin, it's your revenue minus the cost of goods sold. And what you mentioned is exactly correct. It's just what they think is the fulfillment cost. But true cost of sale percentage is all of the variable costs that scale with orders. So this is not overhead. Overhead would be things like salaries. It would be things like if you're paying an agency, like a flat monthly retainer of $5,000 per month. Those things are not variable because they don't scale with volume. The true metrics to look at. If you want to calculate cost of sale percentage would first be cost of goods sold. This is, as Ralph mentioned, raw materials, product costs, packaging. There's also fulfillment and shipping costs too. This is things like warehouse postage, delivery fees as well. Also marketplace and platform fees. So you think your Amazon fees, those scale with volume. Shopify fees scale with volume. Of course, credit card processing fees also discounts, returns and refunds. And those are really the big ones. And when you calculate all of that in, you get a much more accurate picture of what is the contribution margin or the profit dollars left over after all of those things are taken out.
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A
So in this case, the numbers that were being fed to you guys, it wasn't necessarily. And I've actually seen this spreadsheet which is, which is fine because a lot of times it's not broken down individually into individual like sort of line items for those cost of sales, but it's just sort of an aggregate number. So you were taking that aggregate number, but they weren't including a lot of these other things into their calculations that they were feeding you. I mean, there's a, there's an accounting term for it. It's like when you send P and L to somebody about like your costs or whatever it happens to be whatever financial metric that you're trying to measure. You know, there's, there's fields that are hidden and this is very easy to do inside of QuickBooks or whatever it happens to be. So you guys are getting that information but not the full story. And as a result of that, the CAC changed wildly.
- [11:32]
B
Yeah. Yeah. I just think that they might have not understood the importance of this calculation. They might have thought that this is just like routine, like goal setting or something arbitrary or, you know, not necessarily like pivotal to the health of the business. So we were just using kind of a blanket number that had been provided, I think maybe even an estimate. Not sure. But it definitely wasn't the breadth of information that you have to deep dive into in order to really calculate this accurately.
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A
Right, right. So when you guys are. And we'll get into a screen share here in just a second, so if you're not watching this, definitely check it out over@perpetualtraffic.com YouTube we'll get to that in just a second. There's also another cost that a lot of people don't even consider. So when I figure out ncac, I also want to put in you mentioned returns, super important returns, refunds. That should be a part of this whole thing as well. And sometimes that might be 5, 10 15%. I mean, it's over 15%. You probably have a. You might have an issue with your product itself. I always say, like 20%.
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C
Or fulfillment.
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A
Yeah, fulfillment, for sure. So there is, there is that component to it, but there's this underlying operating expenses, which does not vary. And I think that's where people get a bit confused on cost of sales, cost of goods, because that opex, which is. Does not fluctuate with volume. That's always there. And that's taking money out of your bank account every single month. Like, for example, all the freaking softwares that we pay for at tier 11, which is a staggering amount every single month. Like that doesn't fluctuate. If I have a million dollars in sales or $100,000 in sales, that's the same no matter what. So, like, when you're figuring this out, do you talk to the client about even that fixed cost as well as a factor in determining ncac, or is that sort of a separate conversation?
- [13:28]
B
Yeah, it's a great question. It's not really a factor in determining ncac, but it is extremely important when determining the budget. And that's something that I haven't really seen many people talk about, that you can actually calculate the required ad spend needed to get over the overhead. So like let's say, for example, a dramatic polarized example where we have an NCAT goal of $25, right. And our actual NCAC is $10, and we're spending $500 a month on ads. We might say, great, our NCAC looks fantastic, but we have $25,000 in overhead every month and we're not spending enough to generate the margin dollars to overcome the overhead. So it's a separate conversation from the NCAT calculation. But it is still imperative to know how much you need to be spending. And sometimes people need to be spending more and they don't understand that.
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A
Right. And that was. I remember when this came up and you did a video for. I forget which channel it was inside tier 11. You're like, they actually need to be spending more instead of less because they're barely even covering their operating expenses.
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B
Exactly.
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A
Which I think sort of bent some, some minds there on the client side. Like it all made sense. So maybe we can get into the screen share here and kind of show people how to do this. Because like I said, I mean, this is. We've talked about this many times here on the show, but I don't think this can be underscored enough because we actually thought we had sort of figured this out. And then we brought this client on. They had listened to this show, they had been followers of us for years and they didn't quite get it right. So the reason why you're actually on the show here today is to teach people how to do this stuff the right way. So why don't we get into the screen share and you can kind of explain it a little bit further instead of us sort of theorizing it here.
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B
Of course. You guys see my screen?
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A
Hey, are you struggling to connect the dots across your marketing? Well, Adroll's connected advertising platform turns completely complexity into clarity with AI powered campaigns and seamless integrations. Advertise smarter, move faster, achieve more, learn more@adroll.com PT that's adroll.com PT Yes.
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B
Awesome. Okay, perfect. Yeah. So this is the NCAT calculator here. This is V3 courtesy of me. We were on V2 before I came around, so I'm an innovator.
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C
Anyways, Lauren in the making.
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B
That's right.
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A
He is.
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B
That's right.
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A
Yeah, that's right.
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B
I'm an N theorist.
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A
He is, he is. He's on the vanguard of nking. So, all right, so perpetual traffic.com forward/YouTube. If you're not watching, take it away.
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B
Cool. So yeah, the first step if we want to determine our NCAC is for us to determine our lifetime value. So lifetime value here we have for this example, this is just taken directly from Shopify reports, but we have our first order. This is our AOV right here essentially from. It's called month one. But this is like the point of the first order. We're averaging a $49 AOV and then we have our 12 month LTV here we can see for this particular client, the LTV does increase over time, but that's not extremely important in determining the actual NCAC really. This month one number here I would say is the kind of the main metric to look at because unless you're a VC backed business that can afford to expend like hundreds of thousands of dollars in cash, you don't want to look at like month 12 revenue or AOV to determine your NCAC. You want your NCAC to be what can I spend and either break even or become profitable on the first order. With that being said, this month one AOV here is $49 in this example. We just need to put that information right here. It's just manual entry. Then on the step two tab down here at the bottom. This is kind of the meat and potatoes of this sheet, so to speak. We have our cost of sale percentage here, which as we defined earlier, is not just cost of goods sold, it's all of the variable costs that go into the business. And then we also can input our overhead here. And we have, for this particular example, we have 37.5ish thousand for overhead that's not used to calculate NCAC. We can talk about that later. We kind of touched on it already. Really, the cost of sale percentage is what's used. And from there we can calculate the gross margin. So to back up a second, the way to calculate cost of sale percentage is, is essentially all of your variable costs divided by revenue and then you multiply that times 100 to turn it into a percentage. So let's say that, for example, we had our cost of sale percentage just calculated using cogs. We might have 32% as what that cost of sale percentage turns into. And if we look down here at the bottom, we can see that that contribution margin number has now changed. And contribution margin is effectively the gross profit that you have after the order. For that $49 order that we had on step one, 32% of that goes to our cost of sale percentage. The other 33 is margin that's left over. You can think of it as the fuel to grow your business or do with what you please, right? It's the profit before ads, before overhead. But going back a second, we can see how dramatic a change in the cost per sale cost of sale percentage is in the effect on contribution margin. In the previous example, we had a $33 contribution margin. With the correct calculation, we have a $24 contribution margin. Last step on the actual NCAC target itself. This is pretty much calculated automatically. So if, let's say we put in here our desired profit margin per new customer as 0%, which is we want to break even on new customers, then we can see that our max allowable NCAC is equal to the contribution margin. So that means that that $24 in gross profit we had left over, if we spend all of that, get one new customer, we're breaking even, right? So that's why it's extremely important to have this cost of sale percentage correct. Because if we would have miscalculated this and we thought that our actual max allowable NCAC was $33 and we spent up to that, we would be hemorrhaging, what is that, $9 right per order. And we would be literally, if we're scaling and spending more, we're losing $9 for every customer we bring into the business. And Going back to my first point, many brands can't afford to do that. So yeah, it's a really simple calculator, it's really easy to use and you just need to make sure that you calculate your cost of sale percentage accurately using this equation and the sheet and a handy dandy sheet will do the rest for you.
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A
The part of this that I thought was an interesting analysis is based upon their operating expenses. So overheads, OPEX overheads, whatever you want to call it, the same thing they have, they're carrying basically $37,000 per month in those overheads, which are salaries, legal fees, you know, office rent, whatever it happens to be, we're pulling that number, they're sending that to you, you're not getting a breakdown of that. I sort of have to assume how does scale affect that? Because that is something that when I do an NCAT calculation, I say you have to think about this, you have to consider it. But there's a point of where you can actually turn it on its head and cover those costs if you have the right ncac. Because in this particular case you're going for basically a zero profit on that contribution margin on month one and they're making their profit month three, six, all the way through to 12. Point is how do you factor in those overheads when it comes to scale so you can at least cover those costs and the business is actually healthy and can pay all its bills?
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B
Yeah, that's a great question. So yeah, it's really, it's a function of the revenue of the business. So I don't think we have a built in calculator on this sheet that will show you how much you need to be spending. But the overhead comes into play when we think about the total revenue of the business. So if we say that like let's say we want to break even overall every month, we would have revenue minus our variable costs, minus our ad spend minus overhead equals zero. Right. So if we want to calculate like the required ad spend that we need, we can use an equation of ad spend is equal to the overhead costs divided by the contribution margin. I'll just call that like CM divided by NCAC minus 1. So it's a pretty nuanced equation and it probably just looks like gibberish here, but it's a function of having enough of these contribution margins left over to get over that overhead, if that makes sense.
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A
So it could be like a volume game here. So literally, if you know that it's 37,000, if you divide that by 24 you know, how many units you need to sell in order to cover that monthly nut, which is your operating expenses, salaries and all the other sorts of things. Is it just sort of that simple?
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B
It is, yeah. But if we're spending on ads, that contribution margin is also going to have the ad dollars eating into it as well. So we would want to see what we have left over after the ad dollars, which is why we have this handy dandy little portion here of like desired profit margin for a new customer. So if we put like 12.5%, our max allowable MCAC actually becomes $18. Then we can use this gross profit right here and say like, okay, if we're spending 37,000 or if we have 37,000 per month in overhead, how many of these $6 do we need to make to overcome that and grow the business?
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A
Right, so your argument with these guys was, and I forget exactly what their desired profit margin was. Was it, was it these numbers here? Was it 12 and a half percent? Was it, do you recall?
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B
It is. It's 12 and a half percent.
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A
It was 12 and a half percent. So your, your argument was, listen, you actually need to scale in order to cover those costs instead of staying stagnant and, you know, contracting your ad spend.
- [24:38]
B
Exactly. And that's the counterintuitive approach because anyone who's run any kind of ads will think, oh, I need to scale back to get more profitable, to get a higher mer, to get a higher efficiency. But sometimes your efficiency can be too high. And I had always heard people say that throughout my whole career. And I was like, how can you have too high of an efficiency? And now this is the explanation because you need margin dollars are more important than efficiency for the lifeblood of the business.
- [25:05]
A
Yeah, yeah.
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C
So I feel like that's something, Ralph, you never really talk about. Like when we think about efficiency, it's like when you go to scaling, you know that you're supposed to hit a minimum of 50 conversions per ad set in a seven day period. And we talk about the efficiency of scaling, but not the efficiency of the lifeblood of the business. So wish that you can meet your operating costs. And I think like one thing about this is what you're doing is you're blending regardless of like all your paid media efforts. You're not taking into a fact that your website and organic is supposed to be pulling in some of those sales for those operating costs, that your emails are supposed to be pulling in for some of those sales for those operating costs. You're saying like, if you had nothing else and need to make sure that your paid ads are covering all of your expenses so that you can continue to grow your business. And then everything from email, website and organic is just profit. Here's where you need to start.
- [25:56]
B
Yep, that's right.
- [25:57]
A
In this case, in an aggressive business to that point and obviously through the Tier 11 data suite, you can sort of blend all of this together. You can get a blended NCAC based upon email organic. It's really not as much on the direct side, but through your paid channels you can sort of get a blended ncac. And to get more aggressive on your NCAC goal, you could include those other non paid channels as well. If your propensity to scale or your inclination for increased risk or whatever it happens to be, you've got a very aggressive revenue goal for that year, you could aggregate that all together into a blended NCAC as opposed to just sort of a paid media ncac, which is what this is. Correct me if I'm wrong.
- [26:43]
B
Yeah, that's correct. But this is, I think maybe I misunderstood your question, Lauren. This is the NCAC for the business itself. So we're looking at total business metrics here, like the, all of the costs even including like Amazon costs or the cost of sale percentage. So the NCAC here is the ncac. The blended NCAC across.
- [27:02]
A
This is a blended ncac. Okay. Correct.
- [27:04]
B
Yes.
- [27:04]
A
Yep. Okay. I mean you could do it just paid media and I mean that would be a little bit harder because you know, obviously your organic search probably is coming from originally a click and, or a view that might be, you know, from a paid media ad. So it's a little bit harder. I mean, I can see what you're saying as far as having it be a little bit more strict here. But we tend to really gravitate towards like everything's working together in this universe of media, whether it's email, whether it's organic, whether it's Amazon, whether it's, you know, Google, you name it.
- [27:38]
B
They're all ships.
- [27:39]
A
Yeah, they're all working together. So I mean, that email sale didn't happen just because somebody woke up in the morning and said, hey, I want, you know, Cole Turner Cosmetics. That seems like a great buy for me this morning.
- [27:52]
C
Like, yeah, well, ideally your email is inspiring to do that, but unless, I mean it's this whole ecosystem of how you have not just ads where you're asking for direct, but you're marketing your brand and your marketing the additional benefits or different angles for which you should buy and then maybe the Email is what ultimately results in that last click attribution. It was the thing that pushed you into the pool. But I think with so many of the episodes that we've been talking about is like the options that Meta needs, the diversity of the creative. You say content diversification, all those different pieces again come together and that this is just. If you don't know your numbers, you need to start understanding how the numbers intersect with each other. Because if we're distracted from knowing the true numbers, lifetime value of a customer average order of the first, like seeing how much money you can win back from your new customers in month one to at least break even or see what your cash flow is, I think a lot of business owners lose sight of some of these important metrics and get distracted by all of these other things and like hyper fixated on, well, why is this ad not performing the most? Or why am I not moving this much of this specific product? When it's like, hold on, hold on, let's go back to I'm going to keep sawing what our grandparents did and make sure that we know our numbers. Because if we don't know our numbers, you have no numbers to know kind of situation. And just as you're saying, Cole, you can run yourself out of cash really quickly. And especially for E commerce brands, I mean, your cash Runway is what's going to allow you to survive or not. Like, there's huge companies that go blow up overnight if they don't get acquired by a VC firm because they've overspent without knowing these important metrics.
- [29:28]
B
Exactly.
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A
Yeah.
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C
I was like, rip to several brands that I don't want to put in the bad juju, but there's some brands that I miss and it's like, it's like shocking. Like a lot of things that like I've seen. And again, like to the last episode, Ralph, where it's like, we have to give grace to business owners. There's so many things out there. And we're like, hey, yeah, it makes Sense to spend $80,000 on a content video explaining this product. And you're like, well, hold on. You're building these customers and it looks like you're being profitable, but your bank account and your ad networks are completely disagreeing right now. And that $80,000 investment, before you do that, before you take these next things, let's make sure you know and understand these Numbers. Because an $80,000 video could yield an amazing return. Or you could be bleeding yourself to death because you've got the wrong numbers. In your NCAC goal and your NCAC actual, have you bleeding $9 per new customer at that point? There's so many business owners that like why am I in business? I'm working 72 hours a week and I'm losing $9 for every new customer. And when you're looking at those things, if I were to see that I'm losing $9 per new customer, I would go back to the fulfillment team, to the product team and understand with the lifecycle marketing, why are we not getting that faster reorder? Why is it only nine months of value? Why haven't they come onto a subscription and save? What else have we pushed to them to increase that lifetime value? Like those numbers, if you are bleeding at the front, you need to fix in the back end or you need to radically change how you're approaching new customers.
- [30:56]
A
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- [31:38]
B
Yeah, so NCAC is often an overlooked metric because people think it's like a vanity metric a lot of the time, like return on ad spend. But we've seen here that even a small percentage difference in how you're calculating this can take you from either breaking even or profiting and growing into a sustainable large company. Or on the contrary, you could be losing money on every single order and in six months you wake up and the odds look great, but the bank account doesn't. Extremely important to know these numbers.
- [32:12]
A
And just my recollection was there was a pretty large difference between your NCAT calculation initially and then when you got the true numbers. Do you remember what those numbers were?
- [32:21]
B
Yeah, I think that we were like originally at like $35 NCAT goal based on the old cost of sale percentage. When we redid this, it dropped to $24. So like an $11 difference. What the true income is they can't afford.
- [32:38]
C
That's profit. And that's not just breaking even. You were able to get them to a point of profit and then again getting them to the numbers that they want from their paid media.
- [32:45]
A
Yeah, that's a difference. It's a major. It's a major difference. Well, anyway, well, we've revised the calculator here just a bit, just to add a few more layers to it. And you can get that over@tiereleven.com NCAC, of course, and get that download. And then if you get that download, you'll probably be pitched for our Q4, end of Q4 special year, where you will get the creative diversification package, but you'll get the media buying in the tier 11 data suite for free. Yes. 11 lucky businesses, Cole. This is where I pitch tier 11 right here.
- [33:24]
B
You forgot about. They get to see the mullet, too.
- [33:26]
A
That's right. You might actually get Cole on your case to see the Mullet live in person on weekly calls like that unto itself. And then you can give them a hard time about getting, you know, getting pressured to be getting married. Anyway, Cole, awesome to have you on here today. And, yeah, thanks for clarifying. I love it when the growth strategists figure out something that I think actually it was like the director of media buying put this together with me. You found the little hole in it and realized you had to plug that hole. So innovation, props to you for improving the stuff that we do here at tier 11 and obviously sharing it here with the perpetual traffic audience. So super appreciate having you on here today.
- [34:08]
B
Of course.
- [34:10]
A
All right. I. I have a feeling the mullet will return, Lauren, because I guess he. He made the grade here today. He was a little bit nervous. You know, I approve.
- [34:19]
C
I approve his returning back, especially when it's a chance for us to see where we can improve and see, like, the pieces, you know, I'm, like, hiding from the sun because it's creeping in. No, I think it's awesome. And it's. It's a lot to say. Like, hey, we. This is what was working for us, but we found a way to make it even better. So if you've previously downloaded the NCAT calculator, I. It's a great time to, like, revisit if you downloaded it and then never did anything with it. Pull it back open. Listen to some parts of this episode again, because I think it's really important. Like, this is a level of knowing your numbers that, like a CFO or the CEO should know. And I think what's been great is that a lot of the marketing teams are being held responsible for those financial components when there's not a cfo, especially if you're a smaller or medium sized business and you don't have those resources available. And it's really important for marketers to know and understand what you're spending money on, because the two ways that companies can go bankrupt are always overspending on labor, overspending on marketing. And none of us in the marketing space want to be held accountable for the latter.
- [35:21]
A
So definitely not. So do it the right way over at tier1.com forward/ncac. And of course, if you want our help with all this and you want the content diversification package with your media buying and tier 11 data suite for free, hit us up@tier11.com apply. All right. Thanks Cole, for coming on today on behalf of my amazing co host, Lauren E. Petrulo. Ciao till next show. See ya.
- [35:50]
C
You've been listening to Perpetual Traffic.