← Perpetual Traffic
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- [00:00]
Ralph Burns
Hey, real quick, before we dive in.
- [00:02]
Rob
If you've got a brand or marketing tool that marketers need to know about, sponsor the show here at Perpetual Traffic. Perpetual Traffic puts you in front of thousands of seasoned marketers, CMOs and agency owners. So head on over to perpetualtraffic.com to apply to be a sponsor of this show.
- [00:19]
Ralph Burns
This used to be something way back in the day and it would take.
- [00:22]
Rob
Like two weeks for us to do research on clients.
- [00:26]
Ralph Burns
But. But today's guest, he has figured out a way to compress this.
- [00:31]
Cole Turner
Your output from any LLM is only going to be as good as the input.
- [00:36]
Lauren E. Petrulo
Otherwise garbage in is garbage out.
- [00:38]
Cole Turner
We're going to go through a multi step process. The first prompt we're going to put into ChatGPT is you're listening to Perpetual Traffic.
- [00:49]
Ralph Burns
We all know this as marketers and business owners that growth is amazing.
- [00:54]
Rob
Until something breaks or some catastrophic event, heaven forbid should ever happen to your business. And I don't mean just your ad campaigns going sideways. Maybe a client slips on a wet floor or a shipment suddenly goes missing, or a contractor gets hurt, or an employee gets hurt. Suddenly the thing you've been building can take a huge financial hit, maybe one that you worry might take down the company. And you should always be thinking about that as the business owner. Most people don't think about business insurance until after something goes wrong, when it's already too expensive or it's too late. That's why we're big fans of what next insurance is doing. Business insurance is so important for any business, whether you're online or offline, and they've basically taken the pain out of business insurance. It's 100% online, ridiculously fast, and designed specifically for small businesses. You answer just a few questions and next tells you exactly what coverage you need. No phone calls, no waiting, no holding the line for the next representative. Just fast, affordable production that actually has your back when things go sideways. Policies start for as little as $29 a month. Don't wait for a crisis to remind you you're not covered. Get protected in minutes@nextinsurance.com perpetual. That's next. Nextinsurance.com perpetual hello and welcome to the Perpetual Traffic podcast.
- [02:20]
Ralph Burns
This is your host, Ralph burns, founder and CEO of Tier 11, alongside my amazing non millennial co host.
- [02:29]
Lauren E. Petrulo
Not Marty Picciuo, founder of Mongo Media.
- [02:34]
Ralph Burns
So glad you joined us here today. I don't know what you are. Are you like an echo boomer?
- [02:40]
Rob
Wait a second, we just got to clear this up here. How?
- [02:44]
Ralph Burns
What Generate divulging. Any ages. What generation are you in?
- [02:49]
Lauren E. Petrulo
Well, it depends of what you think Cole is, because I'm either the same as him or I'm not.
- [02:53]
Ralph Burns
Well, Cole isn't really here right now. He's in the virtual green room. So he hasn't entered the conversation. He'll defend himself when he comes out. But anyway, what generation are you?
- [03:04]
Lauren E. Petrulo
Lauren.
- [03:05]
Ralph Burns
The Lauren generation. You decided like you have your own generation. All right, well, I'm Gen X and proud of it, by the way, because we were the cool generation before all you guys showed up.
- [03:17]
Lauren E. Petrulo
But we're not every generation ever.
- [03:19]
Ralph Burns
Yeah, yeah. Well, we're not old like the baby boomers or the echo boomers. Anyway, what is old?
- [03:24]
Lauren E. Petrulo
What is old? Old is when you stop learning.
- [03:26]
Ralph Burns
So old is in your head, old is in your mind. So we've got a lot of non old, very new, very AI, very 2026 ideas for you here today, ladies and gentlemen, because we have not. We haven't recorded and seems like forever, but it actually wasn't really. It wasn't really that long. We did a long series on meta, which is all about AI, Right, of course. Oh, yeah, yeah, all that stuff. And I think one of the things that when we were going through that whole Meta Andromeda and the evolution of just meta and where it is today and where it was and how it actually started through the algorithm and all the other things that now led us up to this very point. One of the things I think that never has gone out of style is good old fashioned market research. Because in order for you do creative diversification, in order for you to leverage the Meta Andromeda algorithm, in order for you to do Anything on Google, TikTok, LinkedIn, et cetera, in 2026, you still need to do the research ahead of time. And now it is a less manual process. This used to be something way back in the day. We used to have this thing called the. Well, we now call it the Ad Lab as our sort of Friday thing that I do with John Moran.
- [04:56]
Rob
But we had something that we called.
- [04:57]
Ralph Burns
The Ad Lab and it would take.
- [04:58]
Rob
Like two weeks for us to do research on clients.
- [05:02]
Ralph Burns
But today's guest, he has figured out a way to compress this and very impressively, we're actually going to do a live demo here today. So back on Perpetual Traffic is the Mullet himself, Growth strategist Extraordinaire from Tier 11, Cole Turner, returning to Perpetual Traffic. Welcome back.
- [05:23]
Cole Turner
Hello. Happy to be here. The mullet is still here. It is just hidden behind my new AirPods.
- [05:31]
Ralph Burns
Yeah, we were worried, like, when you first got on, I was like, oh, my God.
- [05:34]
Cole Turner
Where.
- [05:35]
Ralph Burns
Where did the mullet go? No, and it's still there. So you're gonna have to check it out over at perpetualtraffic.com forward/YouTube.
- [05:41]
Lauren E. Petrulo
You're not allowed to get rid of it now. It's. Or edit into your Persona. God forbid you have hair loss.
- [05:46]
Cole Turner
Oh, I know. Well, I'm just gonna keep it back there. You know, I'll just, like, be bald up here, and then the mullet will still exist.
- [05:51]
Lauren E. Petrulo
Oh, my gosh. Then you're just gonna have a rat tail.
- [05:54]
Cole Turner
I mean, better than bald.
- [05:58]
Ralph Burns
So 20 years from now, you're gonna come back on this show. We're gonna. The mullet will still be there and you'll be like olden gray, but then we'll be older and grayer, I guess.
- [06:05]
Lauren E. Petrulo
Oh, no. It could be like a skunk kind of style then. Because you'll have some salt and pepper.
- [06:09]
Cole Turner
Yeah, I'll dye it maybe too get like, dye it black and have like a white streak in the back.
- [06:14]
Ralph Burns
Yeah.
- [06:15]
Lauren E. Petrulo
Okay, rogue.
- [06:16]
Ralph Burns
I'm gonna be talking mullets here today, but also we're gonna do a screen share. So if you really want to understand exactly how to do this. And we're gonna give you sort of the keys to the castle here, because this is not something we've ever revealed, and it's how we do a lot of our research, especially when we're onboarding new clients and if you are launching new campaigns in 2026, in order to do all the stuff that we've talked about a bit ad nauseam here on.
- [06:39]
Rob
The show, which we'll continue to talk.
- [06:41]
Ralph Burns
About in the coming year, which is creative diversification, especially on the meta platform. You've got to know how to do all this. So, Cole, maybe take us through sort of the evolution of how this all came about and maybe a little bit of a background on how important creative research really is. Because now, as we know, and you know, creative creates the targeting, so targeting is less important, but it's the messaging that's so vital.
- [07:11]
Cole Turner
Yeah. So, I mean, this is probably the. I'm the most passionate, I think, about anything in marketing as I am about market research. Because in order to. Well, let me back up. So most people that I've ever met, they'll go create ads, they'll create landing pages, they'll create emails, they'll get on a sales call, they'll, you know, even direct mail, what have you. And they'll just guess about what the market wants to hear, and they'll try to put their best foot forward. They'll write some things down. And I'm sure we've all experienced it before, a lot of these things don't work because it's a guess. It's a shot in the dark. If you don't understand your market, if you don't understand the deeper levers and the buttons that exist within them emotionally that need to be pressed, you're just only, at best, ever going to scratch the surface. So just to take a sidestep here, I have an example that I can convey to you guys that I think will help explain this concept a little bit. A few years ago, I was doing jiu jitsu, and I tore my knee up really, really bad. I completely dislocated it while I was rolling. And I still have knee problems to this day. So let's imagine, hypothetically, there's two people trying to sell me a knee brace right now. Person A doesn't know anything about knee pain, doesn't know what it's like to have it. Person B has a firm understanding of what I went through and what I'm still going through to this day. So person A sales pitch might be, hey, does your knee hurt really bad? We'll try this new knee brace. It's going to help your knee pain go away. And then person B, who understands me, might say, do you feel like you're 27 years old, but you move around and feel like you're 70? Do you long for the days when you could play soccer and run without pain? Do you feel like less of a man in public because you're not able to, like, defend yourself? You know that, like, I don't feel that way, but those are, like, the deeper emotional levers that exist within the market. And person B saying those things to me, he might be like, I might be like, okay, this person understands me. I'm ready to buy from that. So that's why it's extremely important to understand your market, because then you can write ads that touch those deeper levels. You can write landing pages, you can write emails, and everything else downstream just gets much, much, much easier. So that's kind of, I think, the backstory on why market research is so important. And if you look at any ads in your newsfeed, you'll see that's very often overlooked. They're very often surface level, just shots in the dark.
- [09:54]
Ralph Burns
Yeah. And those are basically two different approaches to, in essence, the same problem, but different Hot buttons. But I mean, I think in both cases, like, you're a guy who has knee pain. I mean, you could be feeling either one of those emotions. Either it's just raw pain, which you just want to get the solution to it, or you're thinking, Holy cow, like 20 some odd years old. But I feel like I'm in my 70s now because I can't barely even walk and I'm limping.
- [10:24]
Rob
Those are two different emotions for the same problem.
- [10:27]
Ralph Burns
But they're going to hit and they're going to resonate very differently. But they could be the same avatar, they could be the same sort of ideal customer in the same way. Correct?
- [10:37]
Cole Turner
Correct. Yeah. So there's levels to it. You can think of it like an iceberg. At the very top, it's like, my knee hurts, you know, at the very bottom, it's an identity crisis. Right. The deeper you can go down that iceberg, the more you're going to be able to elicit emotion from someone that, from what we know about direct response, of course, eliciting powerful emotions is the way to get someone to take immediate action.
- [10:59]
Lauren E. Petrulo
It also allows you to be like hyper specific because you're going from the vanilla ice cream of, hey, you have knee pain. Gee willikers, that stinks. That's applying to everyone. And like, when you're talking to everyone, no one's actually paying attention to going down the iceberg. I'm just like going down the ice cream track, where you have differences between like strawberry cheesecake ice cream, blue moon ice cream, cookies and cream rocky road. And then you can go into a place like a Baskin Robbins, which has a wide variety of different flavors. And know that you're going to get quality ice cream. And then you can have these different points like, oh, yeah, chocolate raspberry swirl sounds delicious. And birthday cake is perfect for Ralph or whatever those pieces are. You get to meet someone at their particular flavor of gelato. But in this case it's knee pain because someone who's like a former big time soccer player is going to say, like, I miss being on the pitch or I miss playing a game amongst my friends. Like, my cleats are old and dusty, and they're just as old and dusty as I feel inside my heart. Even though, like, my youth is there. Bring me back to enjoying the game. Not just on the couch, but on the field. So that type of stuff you're getting deeper into.
- [12:10]
Cole Turner
Yeah, yeah.
- [12:12]
Ralph Burns
I actually thought when you were going through your explanation, you were going to go through sort of two different avatars. Like you know, there's the guy who's injured himself as knee pain and then there's the. Also maybe like the 70 year old who just threw wear and tear has a different set of issues. Like he didn't, you know, tear out his knee or injured his knee because of, you know, wrestling or jiu jitsu or anything like that. It might have been pickleball, you know, so it's like you can go many, many different grades here. But the point is, is when you're creating a campaign and we just had a call with John Moran on this, we sort of all sort of debated do you have all of your channels doing the same general messaging to reinforce the same type of either emotion and or benefit or do you diversify and how do you kind of sort all that out like once you. Without really knowing what's going to resonate with the market. So hey, real quick, if you're looking.
- [13:18]
Rob
To get your brand in front of growth minded marketers, CMOs, directors of marketing and agency owners, we're opening up our sponsorship spots for Q1 and Q2 of next year. Get in front of a quarter of a million marketers every single month at Perpetual Traffic. All you have to do is head over to perpetualtraffic.com for, for the details or check out the link in the show notes to apply.
- [13:40]
Ralph Burns
When you're testing this or sort of creating this, how do you sort of separate it out as far as how you're going to figure out what's going to resonate best with the market?
- [13:50]
Cole Turner
That's a great question. And it ties back into the father of advertising, Eugene Schwartz. Right. So there's different stages of awareness, there's unaware problem aware, solution aware and then product awareness. And we know that the different advertising channels are really good at different things like meta or let's use a drastic example, let's say programmatic advertising. That's about as cold as you can get, right? So you would want to touch someone like an unaware or problem aware stage where they don't know they have a problem or they know. Whereas something like let's say Google search or a retargeting ad, then you would come back in with like social proof, things like that stuff that's not necessarily as like hey, do you have this problem? It's more so like we know you have this problem. This has worked for a million other people come by this. That's the way I like to set it up personally.
- [14:38]
Ralph Burns
So well, let's get into the tool itself and maybe Even a realized example.
- [14:45]
Cole Turner
Of course, yeah.
- [14:47]
Ralph Burns
As you were setting this up. Yeah, we just did this recently with a proposal that we had sent out and it was in different markets and each individual market was just completely different based upon, you know, the demographics that were in that market. And obviously I think I'm pretty sure you use this tool in order to help generate that, if I'm not mistaken. But it can be done in a lot of different ways. And you know, we work with a lot of franchises that have lots of different markets in each individual state, regions, cities. Each individual city might have different sort of triggers based upon the geolocation. So this can be split up in hundreds of different ways depending on what your business is. So. And it's not just like avatar specific, I said it could be. However your business is set up, you can actually use this type of stuff in order to sort of give yourself a running start when you first start launching your ads.
- [15:41]
Cole Turner
Exactly, yeah. So let me share my screen real quick and I'll walk you guys kind of through how this is accelerated with AI. So I just have a quick little helper here. As Ralph mentioned in the past, back in the olden day, we used to have to scrape Facebook comments, scrape Reddit posts, just go manually, do this. It took weeks, hundreds of hours if you did it right, or maybe tens of hours. But this was only four years ago, by the way, in the ages ago. But yeah. So this process here, you can use AI to go do all of the market research for you. So I'll walk you guys through kind of how it works and then I guess a good jumping off point for the audience itself. So this is a two step process.
- [16:27]
Ralph Burns
So in order to get the most out of today's episode, we have put together the prompt that Cole is going to be using here today on this.
- [16:35]
Rob
Week'S show over at tier11.com forward/prompt.
- [16:39]
Ralph Burns
And you'll want to grab this thing. You don't have to put in your name and email, you can just download it and start using it for you and your team to get the kind of kickass AI generated research that we talk about on today's show.
- [16:52]
Cole Turner
Cool. Yeah. So this first prompt here, we're going to go through a multi step process. The first prompt we're going to put into chat GPT is actually going to give us back another prompt that we're later going to give the chat GPT again. So the reason behind that is that I, I'm not a research scientist, I'm a good marketer, I'M not the best like researcher on the planet. So with this first step we're telling ChatGPT basically who the market is. And then we're telling it also to create a research plan, a huge outline on that market that we're then going to give to another version of ChatGPT. And this can be done in Gemini and Claude of course too, but we're just going to use ChatGPT for this example. So the first thing is in this prompt we tell it to take on the role of an expert in copywriting, advertising and direct response. I always like to tell any AI, any LLM to take on the role of something so that it can extract the information it's been trained on relative to the subjects. And then we're also telling it to take on the role of an expert in market research and reporting. For the reasons I mentioned, I just name dropped a few of the OGs and direct response here. David Ogilvy, Eugene Schwartz, et cetera. Just because I think that if it does have information on David Ogilby trained into the LLM, it'll pull that forward similar to the first sentence. So anyways, I'm just telling it here like hey, you know, the best marketing comes from people who understand their market, their, their problems, their fears, the way they speak about things. This is what we spoke about at the beginning. And then I'm basically telling it, I'm going to need you to create me a prompt that we can give to deep research that can browse the Internet. Then this is very important. We, we're telling it that we want it to focus on the problem aware segment. So for here I just used a made up example of people that have lower back pain who would benefit from a standing desk. Now we're telling it to go after the problem aware segment here because that's going to be the people that are, they know they have a problem but they don't know the solution exists. And that's going to be the largest and most profitable segment target on paid ads. We don't want to go after people that are solution aware that they're already ready to buy a standing desk because they're not going to get those juicy voice of customer quotes about the problem that we would doing it this way. Then anyways, down here at the end this is just some research formatting here, like what I want it to give me identify the key objectives, blah blah blah, this is just research stuff. And then at the end we're just telling it, hey, this is going to be used to Conduct deeper research. So that being said, I'll show you. I went through this earlier and just filled this out within ChatGPT. Here we can see, I gave it that exact prompt and then it gives us this back. So this is another prompt that we're going to feed into Deep Research. So you can see it's a really cool research outline here that I personally would have never been able to create. It's telling it like, hey, go find Voice of Customer quotes, look at like frustrations with the current solutions, et cetera. And so all you do is step number two. Once you get that handy dandy output from number one, you just copy and paste it back into another AI that has Deep Research enabled. So we can see. I just copy and pasted that output. This big research plan. I copy and pasted it. We have Deep Research enabled here at the bottom. That's extremely important for this. It takes like 20, 30, sometimes 45 minutes. It goes out all over the Internet and extracts information from Reddit, from blogs, anywhere it has access to where we can get the information right out of the horse's mouth, so to speak. So we just put that in here. Then it just asks us a couple of questions. You just answer the questions and then from there, this is the meat and potatoes of this presentation. You'll get this bad boy right here. This is. This will take us ages to go through. A huge research dossier on the lower back pain market, specifically users that would benefit from a standing desk. You can see just the information in here is so powerful. I work a standard 9 to 5 desk job. By mid afternoon, my neck feels stiff, my shoulders ache and my lower back is screaming. That's a quote from Reddit. If you were to put this in an ad, my lower back is screaming. That person is going to read that and say, wow, they really get me. They really understand me. Yeah, my lower back screams all the time. It's screaming right now, but, oh, I.
- [21:22]
Lauren E. Petrulo
Thought I said you were a. Okay, we'll just pretend you're not a millennial then.
- [21:29]
Cole Turner
But anyways, yeah, so I mean, there's more quotes here. I'll go down a little bit. I saw some of this earlier. This part is really cool. Right here, a VOC phrase. Bank my lower back screaming. VOC is voice of customer, by the way. So like actual quotes coming out of their mouth verbatim. I've been popping a leave like candy, right? And like that alone is a hook on an ad. Have you been popping the leave like candy, right? And then, you know, they're gonna say yes and then you're gonna go into the problem and then agitating it and then the solution. Of course, at the end, I dread sitting in meetings. Right. This is another angle to hit for the, you know, the office worker. And this ties into Andromeda as well too, right? Like all these things can unique angles for unique Personas that you put into the new Andromeda engine and it goes and finds those unique individuals. And so that's pretty much it. And yeah, aside from that, I'll show you guys what I think is a really cool jumping off point. Once you've gotten your research done, you can actually come in here and you can download this. So if you scroll back up to the top, you'll have a little download button right here. You can use that to go back in and train a new GPT on that research to do anything that you can imagine. So just a few examples here, like an AI copywriter, an offer generator. So a GPT that can come up with ad creative ideas. It can even help you with your landing page. Right? So like I just wrote a quick example here. You can go build a custom GPT, give it instructions and say, hey, you're a master copywriter specializing in just direct response. You're trained on the attached market research. Always write in the language of the customer using their fears, desires and phrases. Apply proven persuasion principles. This would be like your copywriting principles like pain agitate, solution, et cetera. Keep the copy simple, blah blah blah. And then never write generic or fluffy copy. We all hate fluffy ads. Use buzzwords and then never ignore the uploaded research. So I think this is honestly the most powerful application of this because yeah, you can get that cool research, but then you have to give it to your copywriting team and they have to do something with it. This you can just take it a step further and accelerate your time even further by just getting AI to write the copy for you or do whatever. So I built us a little GPT, by the way. I did all of this in 20 minutes before the podcast started today. That's how quick I was able to get this research done. I built this GPT here with our awesome little perpetual traffic logo here and we can just do a live example. I haven't used this yet, so if it's not good, just act like it didn't happen. But I'll just say so we have good post production.
- [24:13]
Ralph Burns
But no, I love when we do stuff live. Even if it does fail.
- [24:18]
Cole Turner
Write me a YouTube ad script using the attached market research to sell A standing desk. Keep it under or around 60 seconds and use the problem agitate solution framework. Use a strong question based hook. That is an obvious yes question. So obvious yes question is like do you want more money? You know, yes, obviously. Okay, so let's see. Searching the knowledge.
- [24:55]
Ralph Burns
So we are watching ChatGPT work here. If you are not over on our YouTube channel, make sure you check it out. We will have some of the stuff blurred out here. But this is a fictitious company I believe.
- [25:10]
Cole Turner
Yeah, yeah, yeah it is. Yeah, it's just fictitious. Fictitious standing desk. So yeah, I mean look at this. This is pretty good. I mean obviously everything needs to be refined. I don't think any LLM is at the level yet where it's going to replace a copywriter or it's going to replace your creative team. I think that it's a good starting point. But me just looking at this like quick question, does your lower back start screaming by mid afternoon after sitting all day? Like that's so much more powerful than the previous example.
- [25:38]
Lauren E. Petrulo
I mean you make me want to use my standing desk right now. I'm like uplift this. Because I'm like oh gosh, it's middle day. I don't want to have lower back pain uplift.
- [25:49]
Ralph Burns
If you are listening, tier11.com forward/apply. Thank you very much. Yeah, I want my uplift desk right now. It's totally good.
- [25:58]
Lauren E. Petrulo
I bought it because it allows me to have a hammock under this desk.
- [26:01]
Ralph Burns
It is true actually. I love that I did not get the hammock adjustment but I love just like your, your hook obviously first 25 seconds really on the, on a YouTube video is you are utilizing some of that copy and or now script that was probably pulled from a Reddit but you never would have thought of this sort of stuff like is your lower back hurting? You know I never would have said screaming like just those words. Like those are like real words. And one of the keys to your prompt was like making it non fluffy and not sounding like just everything else. Like having it be unique and pull it from actual testimonials and what people are really saying, like it's just, it's good right from the start. Hey, real quick. If you're looking to get your brand.
- [26:49]
Rob
In front of growth minded marketers, CMOs, directors of marketing and agency owners, we're opening up our sponsorship spots for Q1 and Q2 of next year. Get in front of a quarter of a million marketers every single month at Perpetual Traffic. All you have to do is head on over to perpetual traffic.com for the details or check out the link in the show notes to apply.
- [27:12]
Cole Turner
Exactly. Yeah. And like the problem section here, this goes into even more into the market research. Like this is what these people are doing. You tell yourself it's just part of work, but every day the ache builds, the meetings start to feel longer, standing up feels stiff. Right. Whereas conversely, if all of us just came together and guessed, we would never write this and it wouldn't resonate with the audience. Well, I mean, it might, but once again, you're guessing if you don't do this.
- [27:37]
Ralph Burns
Yeah, yeah, it's so good.
- [27:40]
Cole Turner
Cool. So, yeah, that's it. Any questions?
- [27:44]
Ralph Burns
Well, let's go back through the prompts because there was a, there was a number of different prompts. I think most people, when they use ChatGPT just in general or Gemini or Claude, they just use one prompt. But you used multiple ones to really be able to sort of drill down. So maybe you can kind of go through that thinking and sort of what led you to get to this point and how many prompts it usually does take, if this is sort of the average amount or go through a little bit more detail on that.
- [28:12]
Cole Turner
Yeah. So I like to use this multi step prompting process if I have a deficit in the knowledge required to create a good final prompt. So like in this, for example, as I mentioned, I'm not the best at coming up with research plans. Right. Like that's not what I do for a living. I don't come up with reporting plans. So by telling it to take on the role of a master in reporting, we can accelerate our knowledge and skip the gap and effectively act as a proxy of master and reporting. So like I would say that if you do have a deficit in something and you want to get a final output, use an intermediary prompt as a way to get there.
- [28:59]
Ralph Burns
In this initial prompt. Was that initial prompt written by another prompt?
- [29:05]
Rob
No, no, no, no, no.
- [29:07]
Lauren E. Petrulo
This is you like the inception of prompts on prompts. On prompts. On prompts.
- [29:11]
Ralph Burns
Like on prompts. On prompts. On prompts. Because this is a pretty good prompt just to be given. Okay, so you actually wrote this.
- [29:16]
Cole Turner
All right. Another, another caveat too is like your output from any LLM is only going to be as good as the input. Right? So if you want to do something like this and you just ideate this instead of just copying what I wrote, you have to I think, understand and be good at prompting. And there's a ton of information out.
- [29:37]
Lauren E. Petrulo
There, but otherwise garbage in is garbage out.
- [29:39]
Cole Turner
Exactly.
- [29:40]
Lauren E. Petrulo
I will say that it's. You wrote all of that into like one single prompt. Was just at the AI bot summit and was like going into this, if you're like, oh look, I'm so good at this single prompt. It's like I don't have anyone's first prompt. I'm like, I reject it. I spend 20 to 40 minutes in prompts on prompts and conversations back and forth, sort of this like multi stacked to finally get the output I'm asking for. But that's just because for me personally, I'm always like, find every hole. I'm like, I'm not asking chat or Claude or meta AI, like what do you think I'm saying? What am I missing? To give you more context, ask me one question at a time and then my initial prompt becomes a 20 minute back and forth sparring match until I'm finally like, yes, I bless you with the opportunity to give me what I was asking for. You've proven you understand what I'm saying.
- [30:28]
Ralph Burns
Yeah.
- [30:28]
Lauren E. Petrulo
So I'm impressed that you like, for you, you're comfortable, like you have this like whole massive prompt. But it's just like Rob was saying, like prompts on prompts on prompts, like for me at least, I'm most like, find all the gaps I didn't think of. Which for you not being a researcher, that's not your main role. It's almost a rather disappearing role from marketing agencies in general because we have master researches, researchers with LLMs in place. It's just a making sure you have the parameters and guardrails. Otherwise one, you don't want to have incorrect data. Two, you don't want to have soft level data because if you just, if you don't create a moat around what you're doing, anyone else can generate similar prompts. And we're not trying to sell 51 versions of vanilla. You're trying to do the Rocky Road and all the other versions of ice cream going down that iceberg of relevancy.
- [31:13]
Ralph Burns
Well, but yeah, I find sometimes with just prompts, just in general, this is instructive for me because it's like my initial prompt should be better. Like I just want to kind of get it out. And so like a great example of just half assing a prompt. My wife is, you know, trying to get a strength and conditioning program for like females her age and I'm like, well I could teach you how to do it because like I've been doing it for a while but like, maybe I should Just do this through Gemini. And I could not get it. I did so many prompts because my first prompt was like, all right, for a, you know, X amount of year or like year old female for strength training, give me a four day regimen, you know, only with dumbbells. And that was my prompt. And I was like, I went back.
- [31:54]
Rob
And forth on this thing for an.
- [31:56]
Ralph Burns
Hour and I could never get it right.
- [32:00]
Rob
So I think there is like, it.
- [32:01]
Ralph Burns
Was just a great example for me of like, oh my God, my prompts were so crappy because I just wanted to do it half assed.
- [32:08]
Rob
I ended up spending more time on it than if I had just written it out on my own, literally. So it's like everyone sort of says.
- [32:15]
Ralph Burns
Like, oh, AI is so great, it.
- [32:16]
Rob
Saves you so much time. Well, it can do the reverse if.
- [32:19]
Ralph Burns
Your initial prompt is crap, which you didn't do here, which that's the reason why it came out so good.
- [32:27]
Cole Turner
Yeah, yeah. I think just like the one golden nugget for me with prompting is to tell it to take on that expert role. Like for your example, I wonder if you could go back and tell it, you know, take on like the role of a fitness personal trainer with like 25 years of experience dealing with like women, for example. Your quality might be completely different with that versus just, you know, saying, hey, do this.
- [32:52]
Ralph Burns
Yeah, I found like my prompt was akin to basically a Google search. And I got basically the Google search back. So. And that, that's the funny thing with it. I mean, if you treat chat, GPT or John, I think I was using Gemini. I was using Gemini. If you treat it like a search engine, it's going to give you search engine results. But if you want really deep and profound, you know, insights, you're going to have to do a hell of a lot more than that. You got to think of it differently. And that was sort of my. I was like, huh. That was kind of a lesson from me because I hadn't, I hadn't done that in a while. I just wanted to do it fast. But this is clearly like next level kind of stuff. All right, so the key to this whole thing is obviously is the prompt itself. And Cole and his infinite wisdom and generosity has allowed us to give this prompt to you so that you can then customize it for your individual business, especially some of the sort of the parts to this. This is obviously the example for a standing desk. You know, it's the product. The problem is obviously it's back paying. You can sort of fit in your own individual prompt in your business and your product into here, we're going to give that away without a download, of course. Over at tier11.com/ prompt that's P R O M P T if I'm not mistaken.
- [34:17]
Lauren E. Petrulo
PT as in perpetual traffic.
- [34:19]
Ralph Burns
PT as in perpetual traffic. Wow. Those of you who can't spell yes, prompt has two P's in it. But yeah, the prompt is the key here and then the follow up obviously after that. Like for people who use the prompt over@t11.com forward/prompt. Like what would be your recommendations for that follow up prompt afterwards? Like did you use some sort of template for that or can you include that in that download as well? Like, what's your sense?
- [34:45]
Cole Turner
Yeah, so the first prompt is all you really need to give into the LLM. From there, that first prompt is going to give you another prompt. Just read over that prompt that it spits back out. Make sure it looks appropriate and good and then just copy it. Go back to another, you know, another chat in your chat GPT or your Gemini or your Claude, paste it in there, turn deep research on it. Might ask you a couple questions. I would hope you know them because it's about your market and then just let it run and then you'll get the entire research dossier just like that.
- [35:19]
Lauren E. Petrulo
That's awesome.
- [35:20]
Ralph Burns
Well, I mean, I think this is the key to everything. Like we sort of skip through this step when we've been talking about creative diversification. Obviously, you know, you're running, you know, tens of millions of dollars worth of advertising right now. Utilizing this is sort of your base understanding of the icp, the avatar, the hooks, all of that. And then this is thrown into the engine, which is creative diversification, Andromeda gem, all of that. But this is sort of the step ahead of it. So I'm glad that we went through this here today. And you know, you, the perpetual traffic listener can get the shortcut, get the.
- [35:54]
Rob
Cheat code, so to speak.
- [35:55]
Ralph Burns
Over at tier11.com forward/ prompt. Before we exit out today, any parting words for anyone who's going to be doing this? Any words of advice for them? Cole?
- [36:07]
Cole Turner
Yeah, I would say just, I mean, as of January 8, 2026, I don't think LLMs are good enough to replace a lot of rules. I think they're getting close. I don't think they're good enough yet to replace. So I say that to say, don't just blindly copy and paste this and accept every output that it gives you. Read through it, make sure it looks correct. If it needs to be tweaked, go ahead and tweak it. Don't just blindly copy and paste this. Or you might just get an output that's, you know, subpar and doesn't get the job done.
- [36:40]
Ralph Burns
Yeah, makes sense. Yeah. Good words of advice. Well, obviously anything that we mentioned here on today's show is over@perpetualtraffic.com we'll also include that linked for the prompt@211.com prompt or you can just go directly there.
- [36:54]
Rob
Thank you so much for coming on.
- [36:56]
Ralph Burns
To PT number two. This is your second show.
- [37:00]
Lauren E. Petrulo
Welcome back.
- [37:02]
Ralph Burns
Yeah, welcome back. If you, if you missed the mullet on the first one, we'll also leave a link in the show notes over there on perpetual traffic.com for Cole's first show with us. And yeah, this has been absolutely amazing. And of course you can contact tier11@tier11.com and make sure you do grab that prompt@tier11.com prompt so on behalf of my amazing co host, Lauren E. Petrulo, ciao till next show.
- [37:28]
Cole Turner
Bye guys. See ya.
- [37:31]
Lauren E. Petrulo
You've been listening to Perpetual Traffic.