Perpetual Traffic Podcast Summary Episode: The Muddled Attribution Puzzle Solved: Scott Desgrosseilliers’ 5 Forces
Release Date: June 17, 2025
Hosts: Ralph Burns & Lauren E. Petrullo
Guest: Scott Duh, Founder of Mongoose Media

Introduction to the Episode

In this episode of Perpetual Traffic, hosts Ralph Burns and Lauren E. Petrullo welcome back Scott Duh, the founder of Mongoose Media, to discuss his newly developed "Five Forces" framework—a comprehensive methodology aimed at resolving common frustrations in marketing attribution. This framework is designed to simplify data interpretation and enhance decision-making processes for marketers navigating the complex landscape of digital advertising.

Understanding the Attribution Challenge

Scott opens the discussion by highlighting the pervasive challenges in marketing attribution:

“Marketing attribution is always a topic that has so much potential and so much frustration... measurement's going to become more critical because you're really not going to have less control in the platforms.”
[06:07]

He emphasizes the increasing opacity of ad platforms and the necessity for robust measurement systems to determine ad spend effectiveness.

Introducing the Five Forces Framework

Scott elaborates on his Five Forces framework, which he developed over 10-11 months, integrating AI to streamline attribution processes:

“I was always trying to predict, using data to predict things since I was literally 13... AI came along last year... led me on an odyssey that took about 2, 10, 11 months to build out and battle test this system.”
[05:15]

The Five Forces—Intention, Expectations, Actions, Outcome, and Optimization—are designed to provide a structured approach to marketing attribution, allowing marketers to focus on critical data points without getting overwhelmed.

Deep Dive into the Five Forces

1. Intention

Scott stresses the importance of defining the intention behind each campaign:

“Every campaign should have an intention. What are you trying to do?”
[09:03]

This involves setting a North Star metric (e.g., NCAC - New Customer Acquisition Cost) to maintain focus amidst the myriad of available data points.

2. Expectations

Setting expectations involves determining the measurement period and key performance indicators (KPIs) before launching a campaign:

“The expectations are set up before the campaign's even launched so that you're all on the same page...”
[10:00]

This preemptive alignment helps mitigate reactive decisions based on short-term data fluctuations.

3. Actions

Actions are the steps taken based on the framework's recommendations. This includes:

• Launching the campaign with clear intentions and expectations.
• Optimizing by selecting which aspects of the campaign to adjust based on performance within predefined zones.

Scott introduces the Scale Chill Kill Zone concept:

“If you're in the scale zone, kill is decrease chill... setting up a zone or a range of values so you already know how you're going to act.”
[17:00]

This approach prevents emotional, knee-jerk responses to daily performance metrics.

4. Outcome

Outcome involves measuring the campaign's performance against the established Scale Chill Kill Zones after the measurement period:

“So if your intention is cold traffic, you don't want your client or boss... the measurement period is done and put it on the scale Chill kill zone.”
[38:52]

This step ensures objective evaluation of campaign success based on pre-set criteria.

5. Optimization

The final force, Optimization, focuses on analyzing specific areas to enhance campaign performance:

• Traffic Quality
• Budget Allocation
• Creative and Offer
• Product and Customer Quality

“There's Three areas that we're looking at, excuse me, five areas... traffic, budget allocation, creative and offer, product and customer quality.”
[35:17]

This structured analysis helps identify and rectify issues without getting lost in the data.

Practical Applications and Benefits

Lauren praises the framework for its practicality and ability to streamline complex attribution data:

“I love the zones on the outcomes. And then obviously the optimizations are where... a lot of the stuff that we talk about in the show...”
[15:27]

Scott adds that the Five Forces framework is measurement system agnostic, allowing integration with various tools like Wicked Reports and GA4. This flexibility ensures that marketers can implement the framework regardless of their existing analytics platforms.

Special Offers and Resources

Towards the end of the episode, Scott introduces a special offer for listeners:

“For perpetual traffic listeners, you've got a special offer. So the course is $1500. However, perpetual traffic. I'm going to take $800 off, discount code PT.”
[51:50]

Listeners are encouraged to visit fiveforces.com and use the coupon code PT to access the course at a discounted rate, aiming to equip marketers with the tools needed before high-stakes periods like Black Friday.

Conclusion: The Future of Media Buying

Scott and the hosts conclude by discussing the evolving role of media buyers in an AI-dominated advertising landscape:

“The role of a media buyer isn't going to go away. It's just going to evolve... you still are going to be needed for decisions like how are you going to scale appropriately and how do you interpret the data that AI is choosing.”
[53:35]

The Five Forces framework is positioned as a foundational tool that empowers marketers to maintain strategic control amidst increasing automation and data complexity.

Key Takeaways

• Five Forces Framework: A structured approach to simplify marketing attribution, focusing on Intention, Expectations, Actions, Outcome, and Optimization.
• Scale Chill Kill Zones: A method to set performance thresholds, preventing reactive decisions based on daily metrics.
• Measurement System Agnostic: Compatible with various analytics tools, enhancing flexibility and implementation ease.
• Strategic Optimization: Emphasizes quality over quantity in data interpretation, ensuring focused and effective campaign adjustments.
• Special Offer: Access to Scott's comprehensive course at a discounted rate for limited-time listeners.

Final Thoughts

This episode serves as an invaluable resource for marketers seeking clarity in attribution amidst the chaos of digital advertising. Scott Duh’s Five Forces framework offers a methodical path to data-driven decision-making, ensuring campaigns are aligned with strategic business goals and resilient against the uncertainties of ad platform algorithms.

For more insights and detailed methodologies, listeners are encouraged to visit fiveforces.com and subscribe to the Perpetual Traffic YouTube channel for visual aids and additional resources.