The New Meta “Feeder Strategy” That Breaks Andromeda (Full Walkthrough)

Summary

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Perpetual Traffic Podcast:

“The New Meta ‘Feeder Strategy’ That Breaks Andromeda (Full Walkthrough)”

Hosted by Ralph Burns & John Moran

Date: December 12, 2025
Podcast: Perpetual Traffic (Tier 11)

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Episode Overview

This episode is a hands-on deep dive into the latest breakthrough in Meta (Facebook/Instagram) ads: adapting the "Feeder Strategy" (originally a Google Ads innovation) to Meta's new Andromeda update. Ralph Burns and John Moran share a comprehensive walkthrough—using real-world numbers, granular campaign structure examples, and learnings from millions in ad spend—designed for marketers struggling to diversify sales beyond a single flagship product.

The episode addresses a universal pain point for advanced advertisers: when Meta’s AI stubbornly favors one product ("flagship SKU") despite multiple offers, making it nearly impossible to scale or diversify customer acquisition. Ralph and John reveal the complete playbook they're using—one that contrasts sharply with traditional “set-and-forget” ad tactics—to outmaneuver the black-box logic of modern Meta campaigns, maximize campaign efficiency, and—crucially—drive sustainable business-wide growth.

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Key Segments, Insights & Examples

1. The Andromeda Shift: Why Old Campaign Structures Stop Working

[04:45–09:25]

• Meta's Andromeda upgrade has fundamentally changed ad campaign optimization: campaigns now self-optimize aggressively toward top-selling SKUs, starving other products or offers.
• This "AI lock-in" means that if 80%+ of your pixel activity is, say, your immune health product, it’s almost impossible to scale other SKUs within the same account or pixel.
• Quote:

  "Meta latches on to the most likely to convert product ... if you want to diversify, this is the episode right here."
  — Ralph Burns [05:35]

2. What is the “Feeder Strategy” in Practice?

[07:30–09:25]

• Originally pioneered in Google (Performance Max) as a “two-tier campaign structure," the strategy involves:
  1. A “main” (all-products) campaign with full creative/offer access, optimized for broad acquisition.
  2. Multiple “feeder” campaigns—each focused on a specific product, SKU, or offer—to “feed” targeted activity to the main campaign and influence algorithmic optimization.
• Quote:

  "We now have a way to cover all products with all creative everywhere ... and then develop individual feeder campaigns ... to steer the main campaign where we want it to go."
  — John Moran [08:00]

3. Real-World Example: Pet Supplements Brand Facing Single-SKU Dominance

[11:30–14:00]

• The brand sells multiple pet wellness products, but 90% of sales and ad spend were locked into their “immune” SKU.
• Attempts to scale "joint," "digestive," or "oral care" SKUs always failed, as Meta relentlessly funneled all qualified traffic back to immune.
• John demonstrates that even with new products and creative, Meta’s optimization logic was unshakeable—unless they intervened with feeder tactics.
• Quote:

  “Meta will only sell what is selling. ... How do you take what's not selling and make it sell so that Meta will sell it?”
  — John Moran [13:29]

4. Implementation Mechanics: Building the Feeder/Master Campaign Structure

[16:08–18:57]

• Structure:
  • Main master campaign: all products and creatives, open for broad optimization.
  • “Feeder” campaigns: one for each SKU/offer, only promoting that specific product.
• By increasing spend in a feeder, Meta is “forced” to see more activity for the targeted SKU—this gradually influences the main campaign’s optimization patterns.
• Tangible results:
  • Click-through rates (CTR) improved by 92%.
  • Cost-per-click (CPC) dropped by 48%.
  • Traffic volume spiked by 171% with only a 16% increase in spend.
• Quote:

  “Now I can adjust the activity in that campaign by feeding it less or more of my other content ... It’s a massive unlock.”
  — John Moran [17:04]

5. Testing & Attribution: Real Metrics from Scaling Experiments

[18:57–20:36]

• When spend to the “joint” feeder was boosted by 57%, new joint customers in the main campaign increased by 61%—proving algorithmic influence.

• New customer acquisition costs (NCAC) for joint dropped to $163, $120 below the global average.

• Memorable Moment:

  "My main campaign sold joint new customers 61% more ... $163 NCAC—$120 cheaper than our global average NCAC."
  — John Moran [19:15]

6. Creative Diversification: Storytelling vs Product-Only Ads

[22:18–29:32]

• Narrative ("story") ads massively outperform standard product ads for awareness, engagement, and initial touch.
• The optimal creative flow:
  1. UGC/customer story ad to educate/engage (high CTR, but not instant buyers).
  2. Product-focused follow-ups to close.
• Using creative diversity in feeders allows you to “feed” each campaign with the most relevant stories and hooks for that product.
• Quote:

  "Each time we showcase a story about a nice dog, they want to learn but they're not really ready to buy just yet."
  — John Moran [23:42]

7. Scaling Up: The Power and Risk of Creative Volume

[27:03–29:43]

• Success depends on a relentless pipeline of new creative—up to 30 fresh creatives per week.
• Creative “starvation” in a feeder (e.g., only 2 ads for “joint” vs 12 for “immune”) leads to immediate underperformance.
• This approach is confirmed at scale by both Tier 11’s own experiments and multiple high-spend clients (e.g., a human supplement brand spend $200K/day).
• Quote:

  “We have two pieces of creative in joint ... We have 12 pieces for immune ... We haven’t done the same effort in sales process in the creative to get the attention we need.”
  — John Moran [28:34]

8. Big Picture: This Works for Any Industry or Product Structure

[29:32–31:19]

• While examples are all supplements, the feeder methodology is universally applicable:
  • Service businesses (ex: dentist: implants vs x-rays).
  • Lead gen funnels.
• Any time one offer or product monopolizes performance, this strategy allows “manual override” of the ad algorithm.

9. Strategic Context: Business Model Drives Structure

[41:00–43:34]

• Product/offer diversification isn’t just about marketing—it directly shapes business valuation, acquisition appeal, LTV, and resilience.
• All campaign decisions tie back to company goals (e.g. prepping for acquisition vs maximizing short-term profitability).
• Quote:

  “If you're looking to buy this company, I'm like, why would I buy the one company that has one product out of six that work? ... You want to have a multiplicity of different types of customers to make you more appealing to potential buyers.”
  — Ralph Burns [42:03]

10. Final Takeaways: Immediate Next Steps for Marketing Teams

[44:09–end]

• The winning formula:
  • Main all-products campaign broadens optimized reach.
  • Feeder campaigns allow you to “pull levers” for underperforming SKUs without jeopardizing the headline winner.
  • Massive creative diversity is essential (“no more 2015-style product-only ads”).
• Quote:

  “It's killer. ... You're not just doing this to mess around. You're doing it with a business purpose in mind—to diversify your customer base.”
  — Ralph Burns [43:34]

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• John Moran:

  "Meta will only sell what is selling. ... How do you take what's not selling and make it sell so that Meta will sell it?"
  [13:29]

• Ralph Burns:

  "You want to have a multiplicity of different types of customers to make you more appealing to potential buyers."
  [42:03]

• John Moran (sharing client success):

  "Our CAC went from 280ish to 180ish, with two to three times the customers and four times the subscribers. ... He's spending $200K a day right now."
  [31:09]

• Ralph Burns:

  "If you’ve got an algorithm, if you’ve got AI, if you’ve got a large language model, whatever you want to call it, with meta, all of this makes sense from an advertising standpoint. This is how you persuade. This is how people become brand advocates."
  [29:51]

• John Moran:

  "We just found out that we can sell joint for 168. You want to do harder on that? … Now we got feeder for Andromeda ... it's like I can just be in its ear saying spend more there. It's smooth."
  [43:13]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [04:45] – The challenge of optimization in a “one product dominates” scenario
• [07:30] – Feeder Strategy explained
• [11:30] – How Meta ignores new offers in favor of flagship SKUs
• [13:29] – “Meta will only sell what is selling” dilemma
• [16:08] – Feeder/Master campaign structure and mechanics
• [17:04] – Clickthrough breakthrough, dropping CPCs, scaling traffic
• [19:15] – Experiment: Scaling “joint” sales through feeder spend boosts
• [23:42] – Why stories outperform product ads
• [28:34] – The creative volume and diversification imperative
• [31:09] – Third-party client results and proof points
• [42:03] – The business case for diversification and brand value
• [43:13] – Strategic lever-pulling in the new Meta era

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Actionable Playbook: How To Implement the Feeder Strategy for Meta Andromeda

1. Main “All Products” Campaign
   • Broad targeting, all good creatives, optimized for new customer acquisition across your entire product set.
2. Feeder Campaigns
   • Each SKU or product gets its own campaign (and dedicated creative), optimized for new customers in that product niche.
3. Creative Diversity
   • Use different hooks—especially story-driven and UGC content—to seed each campaign.
   • Ensure a steady flow of new and variant creative for each feeder to avoid premature fatigue.
4. Lever Control
   • Want to scale a lagging SKU? Increase feeder spend for that SKU until results (and main campaign sales) follow.
   • Monitor attribution holistically (topline sales, not just Meta’s self-attributed conversions).
5. Iterate Relentlessly
   • Track segment-level NCAC and transferable lessons. Prepare to adjust based on business goal (e.g. product portfolio balance, M&A goals).

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Final Word

If you’re stuck in the “one hero product” rut and Meta’s AI keeps forcing all your spend to a single SKU, the feeder strategy is your advanced toolkit to take back control, diversify customer acquisition, and build a healthier, more defensible business.

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For the definitive walkthrough, including campaign naming, creative rotation, and more, replay timestamps [07:30–31:19] and [41:00–44:09] for live step-by-step coaching. For downloads, campaign templates, and further resources, head to [perpetualtraffic.com].

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Transcript

[A]

Hey, real quick, before we dive in, if you've got a brand or marketing tool that marketers need to know about, sponsor the show here at Perpetual Traffic. Perpetual Traffic puts you in front of thousands of seasoned marketers, CMOs and agency owners. So head on over to perpetual traffic.com to apply to be a sponsor of this show.

[B]

And so if we look at like the last 365 days compared to the previous period, we're up 85% with 98% more orders. We grow our subscription services to 2.8 million annually and that's up 74% this year.

[A]

Like, are you concerned at all once you start Manipulate the algorithm a bit here, but you're trying to train it on another product, do you worry that you might sacrifice sales on the immune side?

[B]

Well, how do you take what's not selling and make it sell so that Meta will sell it? Here's what's actually interesting is you're listening to Perpetual Traffic.

[A]

Are you struggling to keep up with marketing tasks? ActiveCampaign's autonomous marketing platform eliminates the busy work of automatically building and optimizing email, SMS and WhatsApp journeys, all for you. It's all powered by billions of data points that show you what drives revenue so you can launch campaigns in minutes instead of weeks. Extend your team with AI agents that handle campaign admin and tedious tasks that you know your team doesn't want to do. Focus on strategy and let the AI do the rest with data driven decisions, clear next steps and and on brand messaging across every channel. Try the next era of marketing for [e-mail] hello and welcome to the Perpetual Traffic Podcast. This is your host Ralph burns, founder and CEO of Tier 11. And today we are rebroadcasting yet another edition of the Ad Lab Live, which we do every Friday 2:30pm Eastern over on the Tier 11 YouTube channel as well as all of our socials. And this one is particularly groundbreaking because it is the next evolution of a strategy which we've been talking about for about three to six months right now, which is creative diversification. If you haven't heard about that, go back and listen to We've got multiple episodes on this. This is one of the biggest breakthroughs in meta advertising since Meta went mobile and put all the ads in the news feed. If you remember way back before 2013 they are all on this right hand rail on desktop and mobile was coming and Meta Facebook at that time, not even Meta, it wasn't even in Instagram, it was just Facebook at That time said, oh my God, we don't have a mobile strategy so we need to put the ads in the newsfeed. And that changed everything. They also added incredible targeting. And this breakthrough right now, this update, this Andromeda Gem Lattice update, whatever you want to call it, is now just absolutely crushing it for all of our customers here. And we've been happy to share all of the learnings that we've, we've made with our own money. We've now spent nearly eight and a half million dollars at this point in time out of our own money. And now we're bringing that over the couple hundred million that we're spending on our Meta ads for our clients. And you hear it here first on Perpetual Traffic of some of these new strategies. So this is John and I discussing a new strategy. If you have ever listened to any of the John stuff in the past, there is a strategy that we use in Google which is very similar to what we'll be talking about here today. It was the called the Feeder strategy. We'll leave a link in the show notes here for that. The episode which I believe we did talk about here on Perpetual Traffic a number of times, if you Google Feeder strategy, you can actually see John and me on a YouTube video. The point is this is we bring brought that same thing over to Meta and that is the big breakthrough. And this is particularly useful if you have, let's say you've got a number of SKUs, you've got a number of products, you've got a number of front end offers, but one of them is gobbling up most of the spend. And this is what we see right now with Meta Andromeda is that Meta latches on to the most likely to convert product that you have to offer. Well, what happens if you want to diversify that and in this business, which is a business that John and I are partners in and know quite well, we want to diversify our product line from just one specific product to about four or five different products and acquire customers in each one of those areas. So if that is your problem, so if you're a marketing manager or the head of growth or you're the VP of marketing and you're struggling with this problem right now, you've got this one flagship product that's gobbling up all your marketing dollars and you want to diversify, this is the episode right here and it's a huge breakthrough and we'll be doing more episodes like this in the future. As this evolves. You'll probably recognize this Ad account as one that you've seen many times. This is, like I said, we're spending our own money on this. And John is blazing the way, blazing the path for understanding exactly how the Meta Andromeda update works with all its nuances. So this is cutting edge technology here. So just a reminder, of course, all the stuff that we're talking about here, you can get that [e-mail] if you're confused on how to deploy the creative diversification strategy and really take your meta advertising and your media buying to the next level, we're happy to help. Head on over to your eleven.com forward/cd or just check us out at your eleven.com we'd be happy to help out and talk to you about how you can scale and grow in 2026. Now is the time to do it. Now is the time to set that appointment and talk about how you're going to plan for January 1st onward as opposed to waiting till after the 1st of the year. So check that out [e-mail] CD so, without further ado, here is John and yours truly with this week's update from the Ad Lab on the feeder strategy for Meta Andromeda. Welcome to the Ad Lab. And you're joining us in the performance kitchen here where John has been cooking up chaos, such chaos that he hasn't even told me what it is yet because I think. I think this might be overstating it a bit because I don't actually know as of yet, but neither does the audience. You have figured out blue sky.

[B]

I have. We made blue. Meth.

[A]

We made blue.

[B]

The Heisenberg formula is real.

[A]

So for those of you who have not watched Breaking Bad, that is like the big brace crew that. It's Jesse and Walter, right? It was Jesse, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Walter White. Right. So incredible series. Like, every episode you're on the edge of your seat. It's like insane.

[B]

Something big happens. Like, every episode, too.

[A]

Every episode. Like, I stopped watching it at night because I couldn't fall asleep. It was that good. I'm so jacked up at 300. Anyway, so they figure out this formula, like this perfect mess.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Like, and it's, you know, the whole idea behind it is obviously, like, he's, you know, he's raising money for his own cancer treatment. Like, it's a whole thing behind it. But anyway, go watch Breaking Bad today. We are going to be breaking stuff, but I can't wait to hear what this Blue Method, Blue sky is really all about.

[B]

Yeah. All right. So we're just going to jump right into it. Last year we created feeder strategy for Google and it worked extremely well. It works so well. Actually funny enough that the AI inside of Google actually has a feeder strategy definition now. So what's funny is you go to Google, type in feeder strategy, it's like a IO real feeder strategy and digital marketing popularized by John Moran. A two tier campaign structure, lower cost and all the other good stuff about it. And everybody that's all made videos about it and yada yada yada, it was like, what's the idea of feeder strategy? This guy's like, oh, there's this guy out there named like John Moran who's like developed this feeder strategy. It is like it was the best thing for Google, still works today and it's been fantastic. We have now developed feeder strategy for Andromeda. And the reason why I believe this is such a massive breakthrough is because Andromeda by design does not allow for a ton of control for individual products or individual services to be grown outside of where the creative wants to go. So it was kind of like, hey, if you give me 10 ads and I'm gonna say this ad is the best and that's the one I'm gonna run, you're like, okay, that works, but that's my toe fungus product. But what about my Plantar Fresh Yitis product? And you're like, well create new ads for that. Add that in there and try that. Let's see how that works. What we now have is a way to cover all products with all creative everywhere like a performance max main campaign and then developed individual feeder campaigns, like individual standard shopping campaigns in feeder and Google to steer the main campaign where we want it to go. Okay, so now we could say the big campaign can sell whatever it wants to whomever wants with whatever ads it wants. But if we want that campaign to shift from those type of products to these type of products, we now have that control plus like 50 other benefits that I didn't foresee, which I'm going to showcase now today. So I'm just going to dive right into it. We're going to go through it in its entirety and it's going to be a lot of fun.

[A]

So I would, I would be remiss if I did not tell you about our sponsor of today's Show. It's Tier 11. Oddly enough, this used to be called Tier 11 Live but now it's the Tier 11 AD Lab. By the way, I just googled dogpile strategy. You rank for that too.

[B]

No shit. Yeah, just for shits. That's amazing.

[A]

Yeah. So get. Here's the special that we have going on right now. And this is literally like, we are getting rid of this at the end of the month because our gross profitability on this absolutely sucks. But where we want people to be able to do this and do all the things that we're talking about here today, obviously we're going to talk about creative diversification. I assume in this strategy, you haven't really told me what it is yet. And blue sky, blue math. The point is this is that you can buy the creative diversification package, which is 30 creatives per month. Like, these are content creators. Like, we go out and find we have a stable of 70 or 80 content creators. Like, if you've ever seen tier 11 ad hoc, probably see our ads all the time. You don't really realize it. Like, these are some of the best content creators for UGC testimonials, all the sorts of things that we do on the video side as well as all the other nine or eight or nine different ad types that we have talked about on this show. You get all of that. You buy that package. That is a ton of stuff and you get the media buying and. And you get the Terra 11 data suite for free.

[B]

Nice.

[A]

So we are barely making any money off this. Like, that's the key. But that's not the key that we can't keep it going any longer in December. So prices are going to go up. So anyway, so check it out and leave a link here on the banner below. I see a lot of people are already here asking questions, which is great. Unlock the creative diversification package, get the media buying and the tier 11 days suite. Absolutely for free. Tier11.com forward slash CD.

[B]

So cool.

[A]

You, John.

[B]

That was a. That was a perfect slip in. I'm like, we're going to do the best strategy we've ever seen. You're like, but wait, there's more. That was perfect. That's right. She owned a marketing company. I should own a marketing company. Sure.

[A]

Great idea.

[B]

Right? All right. So we came from a campaign structure before where we had, you know, three different individual campaigns going after three individual product categories in our company. And one of the main ones here was our immune system. If you've been following us for some time, you know, we have a company that sells, you know, pet wellness products, but 90% of all of our sales were coming into our immune product. Now we were struggling to get our other products, which we have a digestive. We have A joint. We have an oral care one. We have other products that we're able to sell in tandem with Immune because we can upsell them as a bundle. But we really have not been able to grow the other products. And that was also due to the Andromeda framework, which is like, I'm a pixel. 80% of your activity is on Immune. You give me something else. It has to be stronger than the 80% of my activity for me to change gears. And it just wasn't, unfortunately. It was a brand new product to the company. Right.

[A]

Unless you like opened up a brand new ad account or did something like that, which you don't want to do.

[B]

Yeah, and you, and you can. But then if you use the same pixel now they're overlapping again and it just blows up. So we found out is like, hey, we have this campaign here and this campaign is selling a whole bunch of new customers. But we're like, okay, we have, you know, 804 purchases, 560 are new, 511 are from you. And we're like, perfect. But this is the part that I think I, I missed in the unlock. And this is what literally set off feeder strategy was brilliant. This is whether you have a click or a view, you show up here. So I saw that 80% of my spend, 90% of my spend, $12,000 a day had a lot of, you know, hundreds of purchases or 50s purchases from our like I got 30 new joint customers, I have 80 new Digestive customers. So there were taking all of our users we were bringing to the site with these other products and this was doing the targeting. Even though they've been excluded, they were still doing it. And that's what we found out. We're like, well, crap. What was just the nature of the beast.

[A]

And you're optimizing for purchase immune new customer. So you're trying to get immune customers, but you're getting all these tangential customers as well. Which is nice.

[B]

I mean but, but 80% of my spends on immune so I get 80% of my results on Immune.

[A]

That's it.

[B]

Unless you can spend somewhere else to get that product having much more activity. Meta doesn't care. So it's like meta won't sell it if it's not selling and meta will only sell what is selling. Well, how do you take what's not selling and make it sell so that meta will sell it? Right, I know, yeah.

[A]

Well, no, it all makes sense. I mean they're going to do what, whatever is easiest to get the conversion.

[B]

Really. Exactly. So What I found out though is that no matter what we did, you know what? We were showing these, all of these hundreds of people, all of these hundreds of people were being targeted with what? Immune. Oh, so my digestive audience gets sucked up by this one and says, hey, interested in digestive? Here's immune. Oh, you're interested in oral? Here's immune. Or are you interested in joint? Here's immune. Okay, that didn't work. That's what was stopping this. So we said, well, what if we make an all products? Everything we have, immune, digestive, oral, joint, all that stuff is in the top campaign. Now all of our ads are in that main campaign. So every single ad that we've ever ran that was good is now in that top campaign. And that top campaign is now purchase and see new customers from anywhere. I'm happy. Sounds good. And then we did two unique things. One, we made three more campaigns also purchase nc. Why? Because I want these to overlap. I want a feeder to overlap. And then I purposely leveraged the incorrect targeting attributions of whatever has highest amount of ad spend, whatever has highest amount of reach and impressions win. And I said fine, you're going to take credit for everything. I will allow it. You know what I want you to you can have seven day click, one day view, one day engage view. Everything else has to be stuck on a seven day click. Why? I don't actually really want the attribution to come in here. I want the attribution to come up here because this has the highest amount of ad spend and has the highest propensity to scale because it's the biggest campaign.

[A]

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[B]

But now I can adjust the activity in that campaign by feeding it less or more of my other content. So my One campaign here of all products has all of my product ads. Digestive, immune, joint and then my individual campaigns. Digestive just has digestive, Digestive, joint just has joint. You get it? So I said, you know what, let me run my first test. Well actually before I do that, let me see how this actually has worked so far. Interestingly enough, our click through rate has gone from 6.2 to 11.95. It went up 92%. Why? Well, when the majority of our users used to be remarketed the $200,000 of only immune, about 5% of those people liked it. Why? Because those were 5% of the immune. The digestive, the joint and the oral didn't give a crap. Right. It's not going to click on any of these ads, but click through rate. Exactly right.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But when I take that 200 grand and shift it up here and even scale a bit to 48, look at my click the rate. Wow. It went from 5 to 11. Why? Because now my right there by the way. Right. All right, thank you. I, I paid attention up to about second grade.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So now my digestive, my joint, my oral and my immune all can now be remarketed by my main campaign which has digestive and oral and joint and immune. Okay, so that's cool. Now let's say, let's do this. Now let's run the second test so we know we're hitting a way better audience. My CPC has now been cut down by 48% in my account and we're spending a quarter million every three weeks. So it's a big deal. But my CPMs did not change. They're you know, 0.4. So same audience, we just now have 48% less cost per click and 92% better click through rates. And so we're driving a mass amount of a ton more traffic. What when that looks like here, just as a quick example, when we started this on the 16th here, so we have the 16th through yesterday compared to previous period. I do have an ad spend increase total in the account of 16%. But now my traffic inside of the inside of Facebook is up 171%. Holy crap. Oh, that's a massive unlock. Because now meta says I'm going to do whatever I want. I'm like, well then I'm going to give you the ammunition to go convert whoever you want or okay, that worked. So then we said let's do this now. What if we took in this week compared the so week two of after the launch. I say, you know what, I Want to run a test? Everything's been running for about a week and everything seems hunky dory. But I want to say hey all product campaign, I want you to start selling more joint products. So I'm going to give my joint campaign 57% more ad spend. 57% more ad spend. Now the typical model of. How did that 57% increase look? Looks like crap. Went from 676 up to 2600. Oh no, it didn't work. Well that's. I don't care that the attribution doesn't come here. I don't want it to come here.

[A]

So I made a number above, right?

[B]

Yeah, exactly. This is here.

[A]

Sorry.

[B]

No, no, that's good and you caught on too. Because what's interesting is if you look all the way over at this custom column over here called purchase joint NC remember the 56% or remember the money that we put inside of joint? We put 57% more spend into joint.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

My main campaign sold joint new customers 61% more. And my report inside of here during this time period of the 23rd to the 29th compared to the previous period of the 16th to the 22nd, which is exactly matching this one here. My report shows that my new customers of my joint went from 23 to 35, a 60% increase in new customers at the top line. Wow. Wow. So now I have a big campaign that could sell anybody anything. But I can then steer it by saying I need you to sell more new customers and joint and I go crank this lever over here and then boom, that goes up up there because it's first click happy import. The actual, actual attribution inside of meta is real. And now this will actually start to sell more joint new customers and coming in at a very decent price. Now real quick, we always measure top line. We're looking at our media tracker. Our media tracker. We have an average of globally when we're spending $114,000 a week up to 87. So let's do some back of the napkin math. If I go into meta here and I say how much money do we spend on meta? $1,956. So 1956, how many. I'm going to put that over to the side, go to the back end report and we look at here, how many new customers on joint is the only thing that we have marketing is joint inside of meta. So it's the only thing that has the triple spend. So 35 -23 is 12. Okay, so 1956 divided by 12 new customers $163 NCAC$120 cheaper than our global average NCAC.

[A]

She's that is fantastic.

[B]

Beautiful. So are you a doctor's office that is selling all on 4 versus X rays? Well, you have ads for both. What do you want more of? I want more X rays. Develop a new campaign with just X rays. Craig, with the spend the main campaign has to target the users you're bringing into the pixel with the other campaign on the ads that they were brought in from they share the same ads.

[A]

Okay, I have questions. First off, I've never noticed this with this business and obviously we know this business extraordinarily well. Dogs versus cats. Does it matter? Has it ever different creative like because I never realized there was. I always sort of figured this was just more on the dog side but.

[B]

Like how yeah cats is actually a lot of ugc. So the way that we market ourselves is slightly different than every other company because we actually focus on the CTRs of all rather than the CTRs of link clicks. Yeah, CTRs of all rather than the CPRs of link clicks. Because we want to identify what is the users being educated on. We have to go through a two step process to actually sell our products.

[A]

Well which is plain for to people what that means. I know what it means but all clicks versus link clicks.

[B]

Yep. And so I'm just going to do a sort descending by spend. Let me turn off the comparison. Let me just get a little bit organized here. Since the 16th of the 4th of work I was missing the last day so then we got about spend so descending. All right, so let's do this. Let me actually take my column of amount spent and I'm going to move that upwards a bit so that we can see how this actually works. So in our campaigns I have to tell you about a story about how a dog came back to life and how they are happy and healthy and youthful and vibrant. And then I'll tell you why that seems to work better as a kind of my mini funnel where it's almost like a wally fat people of an advertorial. That's exactly all I'm doing is a wally fat people advertorial. Instead of you going to a blog and reading it, I'm basically just showcasing it in front of your face.

[A]

Putting it in front of me in my newsfeed.

[B]

Yeah, exactly.

[A]

So that is a click that right there.

[B]

Exactly right. And that's what I was going to say is this right here is when I look at this, this here I see the dog. That's not an ad, that's a story. You click see more and you read how as a 21, 21 year old dog and how it's helped so much. These are real stories from real customers. And that's the actual dog's name. So that actually is Gina. So what's nice about this is what we've noticed is look at this when we have non product. So I was this ugc. Good click the rate. Product ad not that great. We have a story about Gina. Good click the rate. You want to see the product here and and so great. You want to see just the product and that's so great. What about Suzanne? Oh, I want to know about Suzanne. What about Brenda? Let's hear about Brenda. What about Cindy? Cindy actually has a great click through rate. Why? Well because in her story Cindy actually has a before and after that the client took for us and we're really happy about that. So now we know Cindy the before and after. Look at those. Click the rates now. So when we look at this thing we have to do this. Let me tell you the story about Paul. Paul is a dog sleeping on the couch that sucks at 2% link click. But really good with 11. And then we follow up with this is the, this is the product that did it. This is the product that did this. And then later on like when you go down lower and lower, lower, you see a lot more product ads and then you get a lot better, you know, kind of CPAs and results on those. But you can see that each time we showcase a story about a nice dog, they want to learn but they're not really ready to buy just yet.

[A]

Yep, step one. Step two.

[B]

Exactly right. So very simplistic. So that's what we saw that when we change this over to this model here, that's when now we have an average click the rate on the story of 11.1 which is very, very good. And then this is actually also increased our click the rate from about 1.8 to 2.8. So our link click the rates. Not that great. But I measure activity off of how much are we educating a user based on creative. How much are we spending on that and is that model working well? So it's a little bit different than kind of your standard media buyer, but we still use click the rates for engagement.

[A]

So on this one, this, this campaign here is the immune feeder campaign or.

[B]

This is not the all product.

[A]

This is the all product. Okay, so my question is, is are you using the same creative like it.

[B]

Would stand to reason you'd only use story.

[A]

No, no, past that question. But for your feeder campaigns, it would stand to reason that you would want to use the story ads because you want the click, not necessarily the click through. You want the click on the ad to say, hey, I'm engaged. And then obviously you'll get them on the more salesy ad. That is basically, here's the thing that you just clicked on, go buy it. But I have a feeling it's not the case.

[B]

No. Damn you. That was my test for next week because we're doing that now. Okay. I literally, and this is so funny, it seems like I'm, I'm pulling this out of my butt right now. But honestly, in my calendar, me and Chris went pet Wells direct with Feeder. Follow up two hours ago, said, hey, you know what? What if we took all of our best performing stories and put them only in the feeder. Yes. We have to have another follow up question. Because of our five top stories is 80% of our mobile spend. If I pull that out of our main campaign and stick it into a feeder and it only has 1k a day instead of 17k a day, we're gonna kill our company. So we're going to try to do is say, can we wean ourselves over there? And that's. That's the. That's exactly right. That's exactly what I want to do is feed her the stories and then the. All products are going to have. Yes, the stories because they need to sometimes see it more than once. But all the products. Exactly right.

[A]

Right. No, no person.

[B]

Oh. I mean, yeah, we're not gonna put trash in feeder.

[A]

Yeah, nobody really does like one click and. But we've talked about this many times on the show.

[B]

You're too good of a marketer. So you guess the next step already.

[A]

Well, whatever. The point is this is that I understand the rationale for it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I want to get. You want to show, like, all right, you are engaged. So from a humanistic standpoint, psychologically, I'm like, wow, this is really cool. But I hadn't really thought about buying it yet. But then all of a sudden I see it again. I'm like, remember that story? I think maybe I'll look at it. Maybe I won't buy on that one. Maybe I'll buy on the next one or the one after that. I'm not saying this is like one click here and then you get a sale here. Yeah. In an ideal world, you want everyone to click on the first ad and just buy. But that's not going to be the case.

[B]

No, we. And you're exactly right. We want to have the stories leading the charge. We've already established that kind of in the metrics that we're seeing. You've already picked up on that. And that's exactly what we saw is like we would love to have more stories. We. We did. We were too offset in our big campaign just to grab those and stick them over here. It would not swing this way that fast. And we would. We would end up killing our company in the short term. But we are exactly right. We're going to take our best performer that we've used for like a year and that one's going first. Yeah, you know, so. Exactly right.

[A]

And it seems like story plus before and after.

[B]

Yes, yes. Stories before and after. Yeah. And you know what's interesting?

[A]

And those are secondary metrics. Not a lot of people look at, by the way.

[B]

No, no, they. They just look. Usually look at the results and be like, why isn't getting bigger? But here's what's actually interesting is the reason why the creative. Obviously, like what you said. I know we're, we're doing a sales pitch out there and it's sponsored by us, so whatever it is.

[A]

Of course.

[B]

But that is, you know what's interesting.

[A]

Is that's just one long infomercial. Really.

[B]

Well, with proof. But check this out.

[A]

Wait, there's more.

[B]

But wait. By today, get one more piece of creative. Check this out. Instead of our main campaign. Our main campaign, yes, unfortunately, is still Sid because the critical immune defense sid is what 80% of our sales are on. So I took this campaign and launched it with a $200,000 monthly budget on day one. That was November 16th. This thing kicked right into gear immediately with the best performing ads with a crazy amount of Aspen. Just kind of like spending like over $1,000 a day or $2,000 a day and then cranked up to 7k a day. Like this thing is just going insane.

[A]

But one $12,000 a day and it took three or four days to get up to. Okay, got it.

[B]

Yep. And so that's what's interesting is when we look at the. Look at the amount spent going, descending $63,000 on this one ad, you know, 23,000. What you'll notice is watch this. Sid, Sid, Sid, Sid, Sid, Sid, Sid. And then when you go down, then you're getting into like the digestive and the joint and that's like sub, you know, $500 a. We have some room to grow. And feeder with the other ones. But here's, here's where we would have killed ourselves if we didn't have someone to produce amazing amount of creative. Like you could add tier 11 is. I said this has got amazing click through rates. Watch this on Sid. 11, 16, 14, 13, 2012, 2016, 10, 16, 19. Wow. Okay. How is, how's joint feet are doing? 18, 14.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh, we're. That's it. Two.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We have two pieces of creative and joint. We have 12 pieces of creative and immune. I can't spend what I can on joint. On immune. Why? We don't have that many stories on joint yet. We never made that effort. So joint never grew. Why? It's just because it's product. Product. A blog, a product. Product, product. Okay. People don't give a crap about the product. Your dog joints hurting? No. See you later. We haven't done the same effort in sales process in the creative to get the attention we need. And that's what you also picked up on that.

[A]

Yeah. You don't have creative diversification either. I mean it's all product based ads. Like if you're just doing it the old way like we used to do it in 25, 2015, 2016, like it didn't matter. Like that is out the window now. Yes, you need those for sure. But you have to craft the story. You got to get something that hooks people in with some kind of narrative. Then for anyone who's listening like, well, this is great. Ralph and John, I don't have a, you know, a pet, you know, supplement company. It's the same thing with any business.

[B]

Doesn't matter.

[A]

Doesn't matter. Of our own money, mostly, mostly yours. Over $8 million at this point I would imagine it's probably 9 million. Testing this whole strategy.

[B]

There's a very large human supplement company that has also tested this model, is doing very, very, very good results and they're doing about a few hundred thousand a day.

[A]

Yeah, that's great. Well, that's not even, you know, we should throw that into the sales page. Like that's. I don't even know how much we spend on this now anyway. It's tens of millions of dollars in spend on this and we know that this works. But when you think about it logically, if you've got an algorithm, if you've got AI, if you've got a large language model, whatever you want to call it, with meta, that's really working in and firing on all cylinders, all of this makes sense from an advertising standpoint. This is how you persuade. This is how people become brand advocates.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Latch on to the story. They latch onto the hook, they latch onto the founder story. A great example that you use is I think you pulled, you know, for you and Chris like, like a three year old interview. Let's you know, like ah, we're not.

[B]

Going to use yeah, our best performer.

[A]

For like being your best performer for like a couple of weeks. And it's part of the entire ecosystem of how somebody understands and gets to know your brand. And that's the most important thing here. And it starts with the creative.

[B]

It's exactly right. And, and this person right here, I just grabbed a screenshot because I want to protect their identity. He's the one. This is one day ago. We're both testing the same exact model of Feeder strategy. And so I followed up with the results that I'm seeing. He goes, oh, damn, that's awesome. Anytime tomorrow, our CAC went from 280ish to 180ish, with two to three times the customers and four times the subscribers. We're going to be wildly good path for the new year. Excited to bounce ideas off you talk tomorrow. And so I talked with him today and he's running feeder Strategies, this exact same setup that we just looked at. He's spending 200 grand a day right now.

[A]

We all know this as marketers and business owners, that growth is amazing. Until something breaks or some catastrophic event, heaven forbid should ever happen to your business. And I don't mean just your ad campaigns going sideways. Maybe a client slips on a wet floor or a shipment suddenly goes missing or a contractor gets hurt or an employee gets hurt. Suddenly the thing you've been building can take a huge financial hit, maybe one that you worry might take down the company. And you should always be thinking about that as the business owner. Most people don't think about business insurance until after something goes wrong, when it's already too expensive or it's too late. That's why we're big fans of what next insurance is Doing business insurance is so important for any business, whether you're online or offline. And they've basically taken the pain out of business insurance. It's 100% online, ridiculously fast and designed specifically for small businesses. You answer just a few questions and next tells you exactly what coverage you need. No phone calls, no waiting, no holding the line for the next representative. Just fast, affordable production that actually has your back when things go sideways. Policies start for as little as $29 a month. Don't Wait for a crisis to remind you you're not covered. Get protected in [e-mail] perpetual. That's, that's next insurance.com forward/petpetual on this model.

[B]

And he's got some slight different variations. He's doing a little bit of bid caps where I'm not. He's doing a couple exclusions in another account where I'm not. But 90% overlap with exactly what we're seeing. And he's seeing the same exact thing and he's spending a million bucks a week on it. So this has been a lot of ad spend. It is working well. It does, it does move the needle very well. We're doing it with some lead generation companies. Next. We already sort of had a feeder strategy. Lead gen was the, the straighter company. I want to say the whole name but the, the prerequisite company where we're using all of our add to carts that are then being targeted by all of our conversions and then we just have to push more add to carts and everything gets better. You can, we, we, we've seen that we can, we can feed it. So it does work very well so far. But everyone's kind of here, you know, seeing it and, and experiencing it first for the first time. But it is super interesting to see how we can basically say okay, if I wanted, let's just say this is your dental office. Again you're doing X rays and you're doing all on four and you have an X ray feeder and an all on four feeder. Great. Do I want more all on four? Crank up the all on four feeder. Why? Well, because the pixel works as one big engine. If we think about it. I'm going to pull out paint just because I haven't used that in a while. But if you have a level here and you say okay, this is my product A and then the sales and or spend and this is my product B and this is my product C. This is kind of us right now. Right now we kind of have sid. This is our critical immune defense here. I'm not going to say that. Critical immune defense. Let's do this here. Just control Z. So this is sid. This is our spend levels. This is like total oral care. This is tox. This one over here is going to be like critical joint relief. And so we're like okay, we're, we're kind of screwed up here. This is our company. Oh wait, I don't know why it's not sharing screen on the right one. Let me just reset this.

[A]

Yeah, it Wasn't okay. You were on your calculator, I think before and it didn't. But anyway.

[B]

Oh, gotcha. So this is where we were and we had one big campaign that's unfortunately just selling sid. This is the main one here and then we have our other ones over here. We're like, well, how do we get this big bigger? And so that's all this is about right now is this is how your pixel works. Okay. Pixel says 80% of the spend is going here. There's 80% of results. This is 10 and this is 10. Good luck. Like that's what you get. Like, well, how do I get this one to go bigger without sacrificing that? That's what Andromeda isn't set up to. To use. It's really not the creative does the targeting and if it needs to go in one campaign. So we said, okay, what if we just steer it then we're not going to try to mess anything up with Andromeda. You could do whatever you want. I can just influence you to what I want. So essentially, as hard as this really gets is now we're just going to take Feeder where it's going to, you know, chop out the bottom there. This talks campaign and Feeder is going to try to grow here into a higher amount of global ad spend. Next to it here we can see that we can push ad spend there and grow that. So is it campaign, is it ad set? Is it includes. No, is pure ad spend. We just have 80% of our ad spend on one product. Wondering why isn't anything selling? Well, of course, 80% of your spend. What if this was more like a. A 60, 40. So we don't reduce here, we just grow another area. Yeah, that's all it is.

[A]

Downside risk potential here, like SID is working out well. You're. It's coming in at the income that you want. Like, are you concerned at all once you start to kind of manipulate the algorithm a bit here, which is, which is fine, but you're trying to train it on another pixel fire, really, or another event fire, which is really another product. Do you worry that you might sacrifice sales on the immune side?

[B]

We thought so. And, and that was the only thing that we haven't identified yet in our media tracker that we look at everything week over week. We know that we increase spend. That was something that we did this last week. Our NCAC is 287 and it was, you know, 270 at 60 grand and now we're doing 114 at 287. So it's not any less efficient. We have a 1.59 ROAS. But we've also, whenever we're above 100k, that's a out of where we see our MER because we start outpacing the sales of our subscribers kind of thing. When we get close to that, like, kind 130k, you can see it's a normal MER. So we took basically $250,000 worth of spend. I mean, this is how fast this was. When people are like, what should you start off in spending? Well, my, my normal question is, well, what is your pixel used to targeting? Because if your pixel is used to targeting something, well, you could take that campaign that's spending here at a fairly high level of 12 grand a day, you can immediately shut it off and then launch another campaign with the same ads at 14 grand a day. And nothing happened. It just basically went from 34 to 32. And we're like, okay, well what is this? What is the NCAC? Well, it went from basically 480 to 42. Nothing happened. Literally a perfect. Just. Just swapping over. So you could launch a new campaign at 12 grand a day if that pixel is used to seeing that audience with those ads. So as long as we always have a steady stream of SID ads that we're always iterating on and creating new. And that campaign is also continuously growing. It's making more room for the feeders to shove other users in there. So it becomes easy. You want a new joint ad, goes in feeder and goes in main. Want a new oral care ad, goes into oral care feeder. And the main campaign, you new SID ad, it goes into SID feeder and the SID campaign. So these are growing as these are growing, But I can grow any one of these at a faster rate. So now I can manipulate more or less sales and new customers at a perfect NCAP with a lever pull.

[A]

Why wouldn't you? Devil's advocate here.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

First off, people are going to be watching this like, well, that's during Black Friday cyber Monday week.

[B]

Oh, we didn't run Black Friday cyber Monday. All right. We didn't do one ad. I can prove that.

[A]

Screw all you people who are doubters out there. My question is, is what would prevent you from having three feeders for three of the different products and then three conversion campaigns so you can really throttle them up and down. I mean, you're throwing them all into one of the. I'm calling it the conversion campaign, but it's like the all products campaign. Would that be Slicing things too thin. What's your sense?

[B]

Right. I didn't, I didn't understand. So we saw this one.

[A]

Yeah. So that's your all products. I'm calling that kind of the conversion campaign because you're getting the click and the sale. It's being attributed there. But what if you actually split that out based upon like you did a conversion or a, you split out the all products campaign into conversion campaigns for each one of the individual products.

[B]

Like these here.

[A]

Yeah. So that you can throttle each up because you're, you're basically, you're targeting the same audience. That's open targeting anyway. Would that screw things up?

[B]

Well, I, Isn't that what we did here? I'm not understanding the differences.

[A]

Well, you did it here. But I'm saying like for the all products campaign, instead of having all products, have each one break all products out into sid, into cdr, into cjr.

[B]

Oh, so that's what we, that's what we actually started from. So that was the before. So if I go back to like kind of the before and turn off, I'll just go back to October and then turn off the comparison. Descend by amount spent.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

We had the basically Sid for Dogs, Sid for cats, Critical line and Digestive and Joint.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And because whenever we would increase ad spend here, the bad part is is this main campaign that had all of the product or this main campaign only had immune products. So if I push harder on Digestive, it said this big campaign says hahaha, yeah, thanks for all that traffic. That's mine now I spend everything here. You go away. Well, what are you going to show my digestive customers? Sid.

[A]

Okay, got it.

[B]

And that's, and that's from the before campaign where we're like, why is Sid selling all of my digestive? Why is Sid selling all my joint? Why is Sid selling all my oral? And why is my click, the rate sucking? Also no one's really buying anything. It's because this main campaign said anybody that comes to the site is mine, not from other meta campaigns. Meta Google Organic, your direct traffic, your email traffic, your influencer traffic. This main campaign sucks up everything. So globally, every user that was coming to our site was only being marketed Sid. No wonder why SID was the only thing selling.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

When we made that all campaign. Now it says everybody that ever comes to my site ever. I'll remarket everybody, everything. I want that. Now I want you to turn up the heat a little bit on that product. And I can move a lever over here.

[A]

Right. And it makes Sense, Like, I have to assume that the NCAC for all three of these products all pretty much the same.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, they're. Yeah. And they're. And actually it was even getting the same results. We would get it like 339, 385, 302, and then the joint one was 720, but that one was literally just like. I mean, I think launched like early in the month and we shut it off. So it was. It's not even on during that time period, Peter.

[A]

And this is only three SKUs, really? Well, I guess it's more because each one has the dog and the cat.

[B]

We have six cues. Six? Yeah. Immune dog, immune cat, an oral, a joint, a digestive, and then a three pack with like a bundle package. So we technically have six SKUs. But the problem is everything was just immune. Yeah, I mean, we've scaled up this company really well. I mean, we, we have not messed up anything, in my opinion, in the growth of the company besides the SKU list. And so if we look at like the last 365 days compared to the previous period, we're up 85% with 98% more orders. We grew our subscription services to 2.8 million annually, and that's up 74% this year. Like, we're doing really, really well. The problem is my sales by product is critical defense. Critical defense. Critical defense. Oh, there's hip and joint way down there. Down 27% this year. Oh. So if you're looking at an EBITDA of a company, are we an idea on a product that work well, or do we have a full suite of products that everyone loves with high ltv? Right now we have an idea that never really turned into a company. If you're looking to buy this company, I'm like, why would I buy the one company that has one product out of six that work? I'm just going to knock off your one product.

[A]

Well, that's. That's kind of the bigger goal question here. I mean, obviously the bigger goal question. I mean, if I am a multinational pet product company, I look at this and I say I want that customer base. Granted, most of it's immune, but for you and your business partner to be able to get the best, you know, best multiple can. You want to have a multiplicity of different types of customers to make you more appealing to potential buyers is what I am assuming.

[B]

Exactly. Right.

[A]

I know how your brain works.

[B]

Yeah. Mr. That's right. It's like you have six products. How are they doing? We have one good one. Five duds. You want to buy the whole thing? Not really. I'm looking at one out of five. I want an 80% discount on that price.

[A]

So the goal of the business dictates the strategy here is really what you're saying.

[B]

Look at that.

[A]

How about that? A company goal. Hey, and some of those conversations this week with some tier 11 people, kind of the most important thing, like what does the customer actually want? What do you as the business owner here and Chris, I know very well I want at the end of the day you guys want to sell and I don't frame is, you know, years, I don't know, whatever. Yeah. Like this is the key to it all.

[B]

Exactly. So it's like. It's like I could take a hit on NCAC if I can sell additional products. That's the company goal.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay. What's their ceiling? 300. Where are you at? 250? Well, we just found out that we can sell Joy for 168. You want to do harder on that? So that's what we're doing now. So we got feeder for Andromeda where it will allow it to do whatever it wants. I can just be in its ear saying spend more on there. It's like, okay. And then it nails it on in platform for the spend on top line at an end. C.A.C. that's best, man. This is smooth.

[A]

It's killer. It's killer. And it totally makes sense. Like you're not just doing this just.

[B]

To like mess around.

[A]

Like, you're doing it with a business purpose in mind. You want a diversified customer base. So like. And it can't all be immune. But I mean, I'm sure if you marketed this right now, put it out in the private equity world, I'm sure somebody would give you an offer for it. But the point is, you have a few offers, I'm sure you know, but.

[B]

It'S not as big as we want them to be in.

[A]

Right, right. You have a number in mind and that's why you're doing this. Diversification, creative diversification with product diversification at the same time to ultimately reach the goal. This is this good stuff, man.

[B]

Yeah. And because we've used the same conversion event for all four and we've left the top one having a higher amount of attrib, the higher spend will take over everything else and then claim victory. I don't care. Pat yourself on the back. I'm just going to make you pat yourself on the back harder. Like it's so beautiful now to be able to control this algorithm.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, there is a certain element to, like, another company coming in and saying, oh, wow, immune is really taking off. But they might not have the, you know, the actual formula for the product itself get the results. And they don't have this strategy unless they've been watching every single one of you.

[B]

Right, Right. Hopefully petsmart's not here lurking.

[A]

They're in the shadows. I think silently. Mitch, it was just shit. Beardpreneur.

[B]

I think he heard Peter Strategy was here today. He's got a camera in his beard. That's why it's so thick. You can't.

[A]

That's it. Well, this is incredible. Good stuff, man.

[B]

All right.

[A]

Hope you enjoyed this week's episode. We will continue to rebroadcast episodes of the Ad Lab over here on Perpetual Traffic, especially if they're really relevant to some of the things that we're talking about here that we've been discussing the last six to nine months going into 2026. This is all a moving target right now. We're all still trying to figure this stuff out. But what we do know is that this formula that we are deploying right now with at least 30 creatives, brand new creatives every single week, five to seven creatives based upon ad spend, reach, couple of different internal metrics and are really crushing it with a meta advertising right now. We actually had a customer that just told us they had the best Black Friday they have ever had. They're a 20, $30 million company and part and parcel due to this strategy right here. So if you want our help, check it out over at tier11.com or to our creative diversification page over at211.com CD. So, of course, wherever you listen to podcast, please leave us a rating and review. It helps us get out to a wider audience, teach people how to do this stuff the right way through metrics that matter. Real business metrics that matter, like the cost to acquire a new customer, gross profitability, how much money you're making, all of those things. Who cares about in app roas? None. That stuff matters through metrics that matter and growth that scales. That's why we do the show every single week, twice a week. So make sure that you do leave a rating and review and pass this along to your friends and or your marketing buddies in the space so we can teach you how to do this stuff the right way and get the results that we're talking about today on today's show as well as in future shows. So on behalf of my amazing co host Lauren E. Petrulo. Until next show. See ya.

[B]

You've been listening to Perpetual Traffic. It.