Perpetual Traffic – "Top 4 Perpetual Traffic Episodes Most Advertisers Replayed in 2025"

Hosts: Ralph Burns & Lauren Petrullo
Date: January 2, 2026

Episode Overview

This special "2025 Wrapped" episode celebrates Perpetual Traffic’s most-listened-to episodes and moments from the past year. Ralph Burns and Lauren Petrullo, joined by frequent collaborators Sam, John, and TJ, revisit the year's hottest topics in paid advertising and digital marketing—including AI's increasing role, Meta Ads algorithm shifts, proper attribution, and adapting to massive privacy and technology changes.

The episode distills advanced agency insights, actionable campaign strategies, and real talk about the challenges facing marketers in a rapidly evolving landscape. Marketing directors, agency owners, and business leaders will find a highlight reel of practical advice and expert context to enhance their digital marketing results.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The State of AI in Marketing – Hype, Access, and Human Connection

(02:39–03:42 | Sam, Lauren Petrullo)

• Brands Still Struggle with Social Responses:
  Many large brands ($10M–$30M/year) still miss out on turning social interactions into conversions, relying on “liking” comments but not actually conversing for conversion or lead gen, sometimes delegating this to offshore VAs or inexperienced handlers.
• Opportunity with AI Chatbots:
  Marketers who harness AI-powered chatbots (like ManyChat) for two-way sales conversations see substantial conversion lifts (up to 25%) on paid campaigns.

  “Your customer service team should be a revenue generating line of business and they should not be a liability on your P&L.” – Sam [03:43]

• AI Lowers Barriers for SMBs:
  With innovations like Deep Seek (a new, low-cost AI solution from China), advanced AI tools will be affordable and accessible to more small businesses, expanding innovation beyond well-funded players.

  “Small businesses will have access to the AI technology that they were limited to. Venture capitalists are going to be able to start investing in alternative businesses because all the money is going into AI solutions.” – Lauren Petrullo [00:33 & 31:03]

2. Flipping the Meta Ads Paradigm – Automation, Data, and Lost Control

(08:43–11:54 | John, Ralph Burns)

• Advantage+ and Loss of Targeting Control:
  Meta’s new "Advantage Plus" campaigns have shifted control from advertisers to the platform. Exclusions and targeting are routinely ignored, with Meta instead optimizing solely for conversions (however broadly defined).

  “Advantage plus now says, I'm gonna go after anybody I want. Regardless of what you say, regardless of your targeting, regardless of your exclusions...” – John [08:43]

• Deduplication Algorithm Impacts:
  Meta recently launched an “Opportunity Dupe Ad set algorithm,” automatically deduplicating conversion events across campaigns—removing advertisers’ ability to control or identify which ad gets the attributed conversion.
• Creative as the New Targeting:
  With audience controls vanishing, differentiation increasingly relies on creative, messaging, and landing page experiences.

  “Now it is prospecting based on your words, phrases, your creative, the interpretation of that creative, and the landing page that you're sending those users to. Now that is now your targeting.” – John [11:24]

3. Attribution Challenges and the Data Suite Solution

(18:27–21:03, 23:53–25:02 | Ralph Burns, TJ, John)

• CAPI, Data Loss, and Platform Gaps:
  Even sophisticated solutions like Facebook CAPI do not fully overcome attribution black holes, especially following iOS privacy updates, ad blockers, and cookie deprecation.

  “Even with CAPI installed, you still weren't getting accurate data because there's this large portion...Meta and Facebook are just never going to capture, no matter what, and they're taking a guess at it.” – Ralph Burns [19:40]

• The Data Suite Edge:
  Tier 11’s Data Suite allows direct import of true conversions from backend data into Meta and Google, restoring visibility and control. This approach enables segmentation of new vs. returning customer acquisition—an “80% increase in new customers” was cited as possible.

  “We’ve been seeing some pretty unbelievable results when we’re using our data suite to import these conversions back into Meta.” – John [12:48] “This tells me every single campaign, ad set and ad what is the actual new customer acquisition cost for that asset. So it’s fantastic.” – TJ [24:24]

4. Old-School Granularity to Regain Results

(16:53–17:17 | Ralph Burns)

• With automation’s downsides, the show suggests marketers may need to return to “granularity”—building highly specific campaigns focused around product/creative combinations to hold Meta algorithms accountable and isolate performance.

  “The future strategy almost goes back to a lot of the things that we were doing seven or eight years ago, which is granularity in your campaigns...” – Ralph Burns [16:53]

5. Paid vs. Organic Content – Different Roles, Smart Overlap

(25:02–26:32 | Ralph Burns, TJ, Lauren Petrullo)

• Keep Paid & Organic Separate for Speed and Scale:
  Use organic content for brand building and engagement, not for conversion testing. Paid ads offer rapid creative/angle testing and should hard-sell, while organic is for softer, aesthetic brand personality and community-building.

  “You’re never going to be as fast on your organic at getting data as you can be with paid ads...on the ads, that’s really hard sell.” – TJ [25:16]

• But Observe Overlaps:
  Watch organic for content themes and UGC that resonate—if an organic post converts or garners conversion-themed responses, it’s a good candidate for paid testing.

6. Data Privacy and Future-Proofing

(27:57–31:43 | Ralph Burns, Lauren Petrullo)

• Personalization’s Price:
  Meta, Google, and other platforms collect massive cross-contextual data—with privacy trade-offs for marketers and consumers alike.
• AI’s Disruptive Leap: Deep Seek
  The Deep Seek project stands to radically lower the cost and increase the accessibility of AI, with implications for marketers, VCs, and tech innovation.

  “Having a more affordable and potentially better AI solution will mean that more small businesses will have access to the AI technology that they were limited to...and now it can start to stabilize innovation in marketing, in my opinion.” – Lauren Petrullo [31:03]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On treating customer service as a profit center:

  “Your customer service team should be a revenue generating line of business and they should not be a liability on your P&L.” – Sam [03:43]

• On Meta’s algorithm ignoring advertisers’ wishes:

  “Meta does not care, advertiser, what you want to go after. All you can tell me what to do is get a conversion.” – John [08:43]

• On the new shape of targeting:

  “Now it is prospecting based on your words, phrases, your creative...” – John [11:24]

• On the effectiveness of chatbots:

  “We’ve seen pretty much across the board 25% conversion lift when you install a chatbot on your paid traffic pages.” – Sam [05:43]

• On tech-driven loss of control:

  “Gloves are off. Like they don’t care...this is it, like they rolled out changes? I can think of five off the top of my head that they rolled [back because of] iOS14.” – Ralph Burns [16:53]

• On AI’s new accessibility:

  “Finally, there’s going to be a larger step in innovation...Deepseek coming in, having a more affordable and potentially better AI solution will mean that more small businesses will have access to the AI technology that they were limited to.” – Lauren Petrullo [31:03]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• AI Chatbots & Social Comment Strategy: 02:39–07:38
• Meta Automation & Loss of Targeting: 08:43–11:54
• Fixing Attribution & Data Suite: 12:48–15:11, 18:27-21:03, 23:53–25:02
• Paid vs. Organic Content Strategy: 25:02–26:32
• Privacy, Predictive Data, & AI Disruption: 27:57–31:43

Tone and Language

The episode is candid, conversational, and actionable, featuring a mix of technical detail, frank assessments, and direct advice for professionals. The hosts and guests oscillate between agency “war stories,” practical recommendations, and reflections on ongoing disruption in the martech space.

For more resources or to catch the full episodes featured in this wrap-up, visit perpetualtraffic.com.