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- [00:01]
Lauren E. Petrulo
I spent over a decade in the trenches of marketing attribution, tracking over $5 billion in ad spend and over $10 billion in revenue. And here's the truth. Most marketers are overwhelmed second guessing every decision, drowning in data because no one taught them to use attribution the right way. That's why I built the Five Forces, a proven system to give you clarity, confidence and direction to use attribution data with a system Right now, Perpetual Traffic listeners can get $800 off the Five Forces course and system over at five forces.com just use the code PT. You don't need more tools, you need a system. Go to fiveforces.com and get the system. Use code PT to save $800 today.
- [00:56]
Ralph
You'Re listening to Perpetual Traffic.
- [01:05]
Kasim
Are you looking for new audiences for your business? Well, Snapchat is full of engaged users you just might be missing. And if it feels like your current audiences on all those other social platforms are tapped out, it might be time to diversify. Over 60 Snapchat here's why 75% plus of 13 to 34 year olds in over 25 countries use Snapchat. 40% of Snapchatters aren't even on TikTok daily. And it's not just gen zers. In fact, nearly one in four Snapchatters are over the age of 35. And 85% of Snapchatters discovered new products and brands through social ads and that 17% higher than non users on the platform. This is an untapped platform. I don't know many people who are advertising on it right now. It's still blue ocean for you because with Snapchat you have the potential to reach a hugely untapped audience and drive incremental growth for your business. So if your paid ad strategy could use a boost, it might be time to put Snap on your roadmap. Go to snapchat.com perpetualtraffic to learn more. Snapchat is now giving away thousands in free ad credits to new customers. Go to snapchat.com perpetualtraffic to find out if you're eligible.
- [02:27]
Ralph
Hello, hello and welcome to the Perpetual Traffic Podcast. I am your host, Lauren E. Petrulo and I am here running solo. So if you're looking for Ralph, or you're looking for John or the other Lauren, all those amazing folks, you'll have to head over to a different episode. But if you're tuning in and listening to yours truly, guess what? Today is a deep dive into something I specifically use at my agency. Perpetual Traffic is the Podcast where you can know how to grow and scale your systems, your teams and ultimately your brands for greater success. And what I'm showing today because Ralph is not here, so it's my rules, my podcast for today. I'm excited to show you all what I call email triage. If you listen to past episodes, you might have heard me talking about how I take email marketing, especially onboarding new leads into your system, quite differently than others. So if you're listening in, excited to have you here, there will not be any fun banter. I miss Ralph tremendously, but my show, my rules. Anyway, so I'm going to be sharing my screen a lot. So if you're able to join us at perpetualtraffic.com forward/YouTube, you'll be able to see the actual designs, like the workflows that I have built for my system. And I'm going to show you a walkthrough of what we have been doing and it's been working well for our clients. The goal of this episode is at the end you'll see how I change. What most people do is their very first email and their onboarding welcome sequence to all new leads. I turn that first email into 27, maybe 500. It's a lot, so bear with it. I hope you like it. And let's get right into it. So before I get into sharing the screen really quickly, I'm going to tell you a little bit about how I developed the email triage and what does it mean for Mongoose Media and our clients. So everyone is super familiar with your welcome secrets, your onboarding emails, right? Someone comes into your ecosystem, they're like, hey, I'm interested. I raised my hand. You're like, awesome, let's talk. And typically you have between five to 14 emails that onboard them into your brand, into your product, into your services, and into why you're the bee's knees. Now, those sequences you can always find on like HubSpot or Mailchimp or there's a thousand and a half articles about what is that onboarding template look like? Well, I changed it. I realized that in a world of AI and personalized advertising, the most important thing is relevancy. And with all of these templates, all of these emails sounding the same when you're talking one to many, that has its benefits because you're able to do a lot with automation that you couldn't do individually. But can you? I believe that with AI you've removed the burden of operations and with this system it's allowed us to really templatize a personalized email onboarding. So this is really great. If you have a lead magnet of some source or someone signs up for a newsletter, I don't care if you're E commerce, B2B or SaaS, how someone interacts with your brand the very first time they sign up sets the tone of your relationship. We all know that first impressions are the hardest to overcome. If you don't have that impression, well. So I'm inviting you to challenge your current onboarding system and ask yourself four critical questions. And if you are answering them in your email onboarding system, amazing. Congratulations. I'm assuming you've already hired us. If you are not doing that, don't worry. That's what we have found to be true almost the entirety of our marketing existence. So in the I'm going to switch now again. If you're on YouTube, I'm going to share my screen. We have what we call triage entry. Triage being like, like when you're at an emergency scene, like what do you address first? This is where we want to address which email to send out first. So I'm sharing my screen now. Kevin, Kevin, I hope that you're going to make this so I don't sound like a demon and that it like looks super clean in the transition. Okay, so in sharing my screen right now you can see I'm using Draw IO, that's Draw D R A W I O. It's a free workflow mapping tool that I use extensively among us media for us and for our clients. Part of Google, I use Gmail G suite and it's free, so love it. I've used Miro in the past before lucidcharts. This is just one that allows me to do a lot quickly and save to various client folders. So what I've got on the screen now is my four questions to figure out who they are in our ecosystem. Right? So before someone even gets their very first email, before anything anything happens whatsoever, they have signed up and they've collected name, email, phone number. You'll see on my form there's in pink. Assuming we don't collect additional info on their form for a specific avatar. If we do, that comes up later in Triage three for us. But in today's episode we're just covering email marketing. Triage one. Right. So this is just what typically people do for the very first email in their onboarding sequence. You're going to see how I actually send 27 emails times four. So jumping into it, the first question I always ask before they get any type of communication, is this person brand spanking new to our ecosystem? Now, most of you are probably doing this and you're assuming everyone that gets hey, welcome. Glad you signed up, glad to be here. You're assuming that they're brand new to your ecosystem, but is that true? Maybe. But what if it's not? Wouldn't it be better to have a better experience? Think about it. To take me back to brick and mortar and to the times when everything wasn't so digital. You go into a store and they recognize you, oh my gosh, doesn't it make you feel more inclined to buy when that store employee is like, oh my gosh, Lauren, welcome back and they're asking about me? That's a personalized experience that has been traditionally hard to replicate online, but I argue is not as hard anymore. Especially because you can leverage AI to make the versions of your onboarding sequence so that it's not going to take you as long as it does the first one. Don't get me wrong, you're still going to have to write your initial emails and you can use AI tools to write it faster. But what's better is if you have like a copywriter, you have a brand tone of voice, you can take that email, throw in a quick prompt into GPT, Gemini or whatever you're using and say, hey, okay, can you please write these three emails but towards someone who's already bought from us or to someone who's already signed up for this exact asset before. So I'm going to. I know it's annoying and I'm going to keep repeating myself, but I'm challenging you that the very first email that someone gets in your ecosystem should be relevant to where they are with your brand and with their customer relationship with you. So the first question I ask before we send any communications is are they brand spanking new? So what that means is they are not in your CRM or ESP at all. I use high level in our ecosystem we white label it, we call it dolegal, but that's how we do all of our workflows. This works in HubSpot and mailchimp and some all of them. You can set these up, but what you want to do is you want to evaluate are they brand spanking new? Do you have them in your ecosystem at all? If they are amazing, proceed as usual. However, if they're not, we need to do some follow up questions. That first follow up question needs to be did they ever unsubscribe this is something that if you're listening, the easiest micro change that you can make for a big macro improvement is this. Always check if someone's unsubscribed to your system before. Why? Because if you don't have unsubscribe rules, someone might sign up for a lead magnet. Someone might sign up to be on your newsletter list but are blocked because you have a toggle on in your system that says when they've unsubbed they cannot resubscribe. So I can't tell you how many times we have done email marketing audits and gone into systems where people are like, give me this asset and then they hear radio silence from you. That's like you're walking into the brick and mortar store ready to buy. The store is open but there's just no one around and you don't even have like self automated checkouts. You're just like, hello, Bueller, Bueller. We don't want that situation for your leads, your prospects and future clients or customers. So what we want to do is we want to see have they ever unsubscribed before? Because if they have, instead of proceeding as usual, which on the screen we have, email triage, one avatar is none, right? So the first emails is going to be we don't know who you are, you're just brand new. But if they've unsubscribed from us before, we have a slightly variation on that first round of emails in our onboarding suicide where we're calling it deja vu. So it's like, oh, I have seen you already, your brand deja vu. So we are then going to have the first emails slightly different in the sense that we're welcoming them back. Sometimes people unsubscribe from your master list when they only meant to unsubscribe from one specific sequence of emails. Or sometimes your brand has evolved and they either don't remember you or you've changed so much that you're a brand new you, whatever that is. I just invite you to consider, if someone is unsubscribed, wouldn't it be great to talk to them a little bit differently because they're a little more sensitive to who you are in your brand. This allows you to reintroduce yourself in a way that someone new doesn't need to hear because they're brand new. You don't have to reintroduce yourself. You're introducing yourself. So I hope that makes sense. I'm going to jump into that next question so what if they've never unsubscribed? But we know they're not brands making new into our ecosystem, Right? They exist in our CRM or esp. Like they're here, we have their information and they've never unsubscribed. Okay, so let's jump into the next thing. You'll see that in the decision tree, did they ever unsub? Sorry, I'm over explaining. For those listening, if they say yes, they receive then email triage one towards the avatar. Deja vu. If not, we're like, okay, cool, they're not in our system, so let's figure it out. We ask, have they ever given us any money? This was like a light bulb moment. I've talked on this on stage before and every time I've had the chance to talk about this, everyone's like, oh my gosh, why are we talking to people that are customers signing up as leads? The same way they've already given us money. We don't have to actually introduce ourselves anymore because they know who we are in theory, because they've already given us money. Right? So if they've already given us money, let's introduce that asset or that newsletter a little bit differently so that we can again have that personalized relationship. Remember, going back to the store, I'm walking in. I'm not only recognized because I've come in a lot, but I'm recognized because I bought something like, oh my gosh, Lauren, how is that red scarf for you? Is it amazing? I wish you were wearing it today. I'm like, oh, thanks, Judy. Tell me more, show me more. And it encourages me to buy more because I feel connected to the brand. Some really small micro shift. If you know they've already purchased from you, if they've already given you a dollar, let's welcome them, let's celebrate them a little bit, right? And I imagine as we have seen with our results, we actually get an increase of replies because they're like, oh my gosh, hey, yeah, I am back. Or this is really cool. There's ways that you can get even more sophisticated to make sure that if you know what they are depending on if you have a large amount of skus or if you're in the coaching business and you've got like one or two items, you can really have personalized first hellos. The way that we wish our VAs or customer service teams are doing on socials, we can do that on email. And when you build it, once you really kind of get to Set it and forget it. Unless you want to go back and continue to create more avatars. But that's what we've got here. So the first question we ask to recover is like are they bread spanking new to our system? If yes, proceed as you typically do. Second question is they're not brand spanking new to our ecosystem. So have they ever unsubscribed before? If they've unsubscribed, let's, you know, welcome. They're a little bit more sensitive, let's hold their hand a bit more. But if they haven't unsubscribed, we'd need to check. Okay, well they haven't unsubscribed. They're here. But did they ever give us money? Now they haven't given us money. They're in our ecosystem, so haven't given us money yet. But they've already signed up in our system. So we want to check did they sign up for this exact asset yet? Right. Anyone that's listening that does lead generation. If you've got a calculator, if you've got a plan or if you've got any type of lead magnet. You know, we talk about if you go to petroltraffic.com NPIS you can download our NPI checklist, right? That's actually evolved a few times. So depending on when you downloaded it, you might actually see a newer version because it's got linked to videos with John Moran. It's pretty cool. So if you haven't signed up, easy plug on that. Regards, but if you have signed up for this exact asset, I'm sure a lot of you listening are thinking the same thing. You have signed up and you forgot that you signed up for it. You signed up for it because you wanted it and a lot of us that are marketing to them like why do all these people sign up and don't click? I've talked a lot about Proof of Life and email triage1 when we get into it, more is all about confirming proof of life. That's why the very first email and most onboarding sequence, the whole purpose of this is I'm not actually going to let you see the rest of my onboarding sequence until I get proof of life. Be that a reply or a click. If you're asking for this lead magnet, I'm going to give it to you, but I'm not going to introduce my services. My USPs tell you all this stuff, give you coupons. If you didn't even click on the Darn thing you signed up for. It's not that I'm not going to email you again later. You're going to get on my campaigns list, but I'm going to show you why these this first email which I actually sent three different emails with two recents each for a total of 27 potential emails which most of you do is one. I do it because I need to make sure that you're proof of life. I don't want bad lead bloat, but if you're someone in my system and you've already signed up for this exact asset before and you have asset deja vu, then I'm going to communicate with you in a slightly different manner, right? Maybe it went to spam, maybe you forgot about it, maybe it got lost and eaten by email. Gremlins Whatever it is, this is an opportunity for you to again have a personalized conversation based off of where they are with their brand and play with it. If it's on brand, you could then send them a text and be like hey, hey Lauren, looks like you previously signed up for this and you can be petty and put the dates. So we just want to check. I'm sending you it here via text in case the last time it went to spam or got eaten by email. Gremlins we hope this asset is good for you and wanted to be available if you had any follow up questions. Why does this matter? Anyone that has signed up for your lead magnet more than once has shown you, has demonstrated to you a higher quality of interest in your brand and services or product than someone who signed up for the first time. We think like what? 80% of people sign up for stuff and it sits in inbox graveyards. But when someone signs up again like they wanted it and we always look here like ah, all these leads, why aren't they doing anything? Well let's put it back on you. Why aren't you doing anything with them based on their relationship with your brand? Well that gets a change now. So after that, if they have asset deja vu, think about for yourself and your own experience or what's possible with your future customers. How much better would that relationship be with them if you had that more relevant conversation? So jumping into the last question that we're going to ask before our next one. So this is a set of questions to do avatar identification. Then we have another question to do distribution identification. So if they have not already signed up to this exact asset, what we know then is they're a stranger to this asset, but not to us. Therefore, we do email triage1 for avatar fam. If they've signed up and had asset deja vu, we do email triage1 for the avatar or repeat, sign up. Now, if they're totally new to this asset but not new to us and have never given us money and haven't already unsubscribed, we then do email triage1, which we call Avatar fan. So that gives you the chance to talk to them and be like, hey, welcome back. If you have personalization and like teams, you can list what they've signed up for before and be like, hey, we hope you like that blueprint. We think this calculator is going to be awesome. And then you can build even deeper relationships of how they can work together, but you're just recognizing for who they are. We have the data. This is totally possible to do. It does take a little bit of extra foundational setup work. But these micro moments that you create for that customer or that lead helps them become a better customer for you long term. So again, recap. I know, sorry, this is obnoxious. You can skip past some pieces, play around. But again, on YouTube, I'm showing the first question we ask after they've signed up is, are they brand staking new to our brand? If yes, email triage 1 with the avatar none. If they are not new to our brand, we check, did they unsubscribe? So then we say, okay, email Triage one avatar deja vu. But if they're in our system and we need to check, have they given us money yet? Because we're going to talk to our customers a little bit differently than we're going to talk to people who haven't paid us. Right. And if we do awesome, you're going to email Triage 1, which is about the avatar customer. Then we say, you haven't given us money. Have you signed up for this exact asset? If yes, email triage 1 avatar repeat sign up. And last but not least, if they are stranger to this asset but not to us, we do email Triage one Avatar fan. I hope this isn't confusing. I promise it's a lot easier if you're watching on YouTube. So if you go to perpetualtraffic.com YouTube I promise it'll be much easier. But if you're running, I love it. Let's be friends on Strava because I love listening to podcasts while running. And maybe you can, if you have questions or want me to, like email you the screen sheets or something, you can do that Laurenongous media, I'm happy to send you screenshots over so that you can see it later. But after we ask who they are, then we need to ask, what do they want? How are they coming to us? This is something that I invite you to think about, which is, if you signed up on your phone, do you have email notifications as prevalent as you have SMS notifications? Probably not. But if you sign up on desktop, say you're on your laptop or you're on your desktop device, you probably have email notifications on, because that's a work device. So what's really cool is you can then do a question, are they filling out this form on mobile or sms? If they're filling it out on mobile, then what we do is we start triage one based on the avatar with the first deliverable, the immediate one being an sms. And if they sign up on desktop, our first deliverable is then an email. They're still going to get both, but we're trying to capture their attention immediately. We want to say, hey, we know that you've signed up, we know that you're interested, so how can we be the most relevant and personalized to you? Because relevancy and personalization is going to win all day. So if they signed up on desktop, what we do is we actually add a hidden form field that shows what type of device they're on. If you want it, we coded it, we have a JavaScript, we code it, we sell it. Feel free to message me, I'm happy to give it to you. Or you can pass this along to your developers or if you have a team that they can do it, it's a snippet Of Code, some JavaScript that you can add depending on the type of email service provider you have or your form builder, but that allows you to have a hidden form field so you can know if they're signing up on mobile or desktop. There's lots that you can do with that later, of course, can get into that at later episodes if people are interested or continue the conversation. On our telegram group, which is perpetual.com for the which is perpetualtraffic.com telegram see Ralph, I miss you. It's hard to just monologue. Anyways, we'll keep going. So once we know who they are and what device they're coming on, we're allowed to then start email triage one. Right. So on that I'm going to zoom out a little bit and explain quickly some moments how it changes. So if they're coming in on email triage 1 and the avatar is none. We are going to make sure that email is focused on the asset. If they're avatar deja vu, remember they unsubscribed once. We're focusing on welcoming back and letting them know we're glad to see you again. If they're the customer, we're focusing on them as an individual and we are their fan. So those type of moments can be articulated really well. Again, micro moments that can have macro impact on your relationship with your customer. But what I'm going to switch now to is our bigger email Triage onboarding tab in Draw IO So it's a lot. Brace yourself, have a glass of wine, take a sip because it's going to be a little bit confusing, but I hope you're going to like it because so far it's been really well received and we have seen it have great impact on our clients and internally as well. So switching over to it, I know this is a lot. So this is an internal resource, this is what it looks like for us. So there's a lot here into it. But essentially what I've got on the screen is that Triage one, this is on your onboarding series, the only part of the Triage that changes every time. So every time someone signs up for anything in your ecosystem, you need to redo Triage one for that asset or for that signup experience. If it's like a newsletter sign up, that's a pop up similar to the one in your footer. You don't have to have differentiation between that. But if you're doing a tool versus a planner versus an audit or whatever the different things are, you want to have that first triage level personalized to what they're signing up for.
- [24:02]
Kasim
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- [25:38]
Ralph
Then what we do in Triage two and Triage three, Triage four, those are just built once that they'll unlock access to when they show proof of life and I'll show you exactly what it means on the screen over here. So we like what we can see on the screen. Purpose of Triage one is no proof of life equals no point. I am being the bouncer. I'm not letting you into my ecosystem. I'm not going to send you all the remaining emails. I'm not going to chase you. Look, I get it if you're just not that into me. I'm not going to be adjusted into you. I'm going to give you every chance for you to show that you're actually interested in what you signed up for. Otherwise your email bloat and I'm paying for you I'm paying for depending on your email service provider, your esp. I am paying for you as a contact and I'm paying for every time I send something to you. I will still send something to you, but I'm not going to do it as frequently and with as much intention as I will to those that actually interact with my brand. And there's way more stuff that we can do with it. So hang tight and I'll show you what that means later. But we talk to them based on their relationship to our ecosystem and we're communicating with them immediately. I've got our target open rate. It's just a trend line. It's not anything to like hold steady to. Open rates with iOS 15 kind of became semi irrelevant but they're definitely a trend line because if all of a sudden your open rates generally on your campaigns or broadcast emails, the ones that you send out every so often, like the one offs, if you're normally at like 60% and all of a sudden you go to 25 or all of a sudden you go to 80, that shows that something was impactful about your sub. So open rates should be at least 40%. We like our click through rate to be 2 to 5% and then our take rate which is the click through rate to open rate should be double digits is our goal. I can see that. Oh, first four that Lauren Ipsum internal document. But that is just what I explained those first four questions in depth. We just made a different tab so no to self. Lauren, clean this up. Okay, so we asked mobile or desktop. Like I said, if they're mobile first we're sending them a text message. You can do a double opt in for SMS if you're in Europe, it's required. If you have more than 100,000 customers in like six or seven states, it's also required in the US in some capacities. But for the most part what we like to do on that very first is sending them an sms which is like confirming that we've got your contact and starting the conversation. All we want is a dialogue, right? Dialogues lead to dollars. So we send that, confirming we've got their information. We wait a few seconds and then drop their emails. We always want to try to get a reply. And an example of how we can use an SMS to get a reply that I've got on the screen is on a scale of 1 to 10, how likely is it that you are going to actually look at the email I just sent you? Facts. I hate email, so I'm all about text. They're faster. Same Z's I can send insert dynamic asset to you here if you ask nicely. Xoxo the girl whose email list you just signed up for. If it's within your brand and you can do it on personality, live into it, then you get to start that dialogue and that relationship with that individual. But if they came from desktop, what I've got on screen is, okay, we're going to send the first email in triage one and then I say we wait 69 minutes. That's purely because I like the number 69. There's no science, there's no data back behind how long we wait. That's what I put into my systems. And then we ask after 69 minutes, did they open the email? If they did not yet open the email, I'm not saying click, I'm just doing open. And again, open rates. If they're on an Apple device and they're using mail can be misleading. But we just check if they haven't opened the email, then we're going to send them that text which is starting a conversation, the light reminder to the email. Right. So we can't say we just sent you that email, but it might be something like, hey, just checking back in. Saw that you asked for this tool. Want to check? Did you have access to it or did it potentially land in spam? Something like that, to see if they get the dialogue. You'll see that sometimes people are going to reply and thank you because your stuff lands in spam or in a promotions folder or they wanted it but they didn't have the time for it. So you get to recircle back into their most immediate access or like their immediate availability to your brand. Right. We're always fighting for attention. So once we do, that's how we like setting it up. I have an example here which is don't leave me unread if you haven't already. Your tool is in your inbox. But we get it. Emails are annoying. Would you rather get it here again? This is an opportunity for you to start the conversation lightly so that you can start a dialogue. Because dialogues lead to dollars. Okay, now what I'm doing Now is on YouTube. You'll see I'm screening out. And this workflow is extensive. So we've got 1, 2, 3 sections, 4, 5, 6 items and lots of notes in between. So starting this off, the first email that we send out is always delivering on what they signed up for. You wanted this asset. Here you go, this is for you, right? So we have to always, always, always deliver on a premise, right? Currently reading the four agreements and the first agreement is be impeccable on your word. So if they signed up and you're giving them an asset, be impeccable on. Here's what you signed up for. We're not playing a bait and switch game. Deliver on your word. Your open rate should be at least 40%. But we say target 69%. You know why? And then we have a target click through rate on that one is actually 25%. This is what they asked for. You're never going to get as high of a click through rate when you're like here you go, ta da. So we like having a double digit target click through rate and we always want to include and encourage the user to reply. We want them to click to see the asset, but we'll always have like a PS to get them to reply. Why? Replies are some of the best ways that you can send positive signs of deliverability you're showing, especially Gmail. But the yahoos the AOLs, if you're still using that of the world, that this is important enough to you that you're replying. The relevance part of this marketing game doesn't stop at us providing relevant material. It's also to the tech companies where you're showing them your relevance in their inbox. Their job is to bounce and gatekeep unwanted spam. In the US you're allowed to email people. I'm not a lawyer. This is not legal advice. But if you use tools, you're allowed to actually email visitors that have been on your website. You can capture that information because it's available and we have laws that protect people that unsubscribed and opt out versus laws that protect people opting in. This is not true in Europe and Canada as far as we understand. Again, not lawyers, not legal advice, but in that capacity, because that's true the Gmails of the world, all these email service providers want to make sure that their customers who have their emails with their provider are not getting useless stuff. So again, encouraging a reply can massively help your deliverability. This is June, almost July. We start Black Friday planning in two weeks. Very seriously. One part of that Black Friday planning is making sure your deliverability is set up for success in October and November, when it's the most competitive time in someone's inbox and when we have some of the slowest send times. That's not what this is about. Lots of other positive things. Again, continue the conversation in the telegram group, but jumping into this, I cannot encourage it more. Have a P.S. so what I have an example of a reply to an email is a reminder, if you haven't already, can you hit reply and let me know what your favorite Orlando restaurant is? Now I live in Orlando, so that makes sense. Sometimes and depending on the asset or whatever it is, people love to give recommendations. And you want it to be an easy ask. Don't ask someone, hey, why did you sign up for this? Or ask someone like why is the sky blue? Something light, something easy, something they're happy to share back? Because then you can start a dialogue and get to know more about them as an individual versus just an email. So what we do is we send that very first email delivering on our promise. And we always include the call to action to link to it and some sort of reply to the email. But what we do here is before we send the next email, we're actually going to send this potentially two more times. So what I have is after I sent the email, I wait 6 hours did they open that email? No. Great. I'm going to resend them that exact same email with a different subject line because it's my second chance, right? I already built a great email. Everything is inside. Good. But you didn't look inside. So what I'm going to do is send you the exact same email with a different subject line, do it one more time. If after 18 hours you still did not open the email again, it's open, which can be deceiving. But at least if you didn't open it, I'm going to send you the exact same email a third time with a different subject line. So I've made one email become three with just three different subject lines. Hope you're following. And that makes all sense because the next thing is though, a lot of you will deliver it and you jump into email two of your onboarding sequence. I'm like, nope, nope. Here's where it changes. I am not sending you now. Let me tell you about my brand. Let me tell you about my story, why I'm the founder, why I created this company. No, we're not getting there yet because I don't have proof of life. So what I do is after the first email, or potentially three, I wait 23 hours. That 23 hour clock starts after they open. So if they did not open the first, second or third email, then it's 23 hours after I sent that last email. But if they open that first email, say they open it an hour after you sent it, then the 23 hour time starts. And the reason why it's 23 hours is because in human psychology, we are creatures of habit, which means if I was online at three in the morning, I'm likely going to be online again tomorrow at 3 in the morning. But if I do 23 hours, my goal is to be first in line so that maybe you log on at 2 in the morning. So I sent it at 2 and I'm first at your inbox. Or maybe you log in at 2:45. I'm very close to being at your inbox because by the time you're three, you could be distracted. So that's why I wait 23 hours. Lots and lots of testing on this. This is what's worked for us. Always test and make decisions for yourself. But this has been something that we use pretty much regularly as a recommendation. So after 23 hours we check, is there any proof of life? Proof of life. It's almost like a drinking game. Now it's did they reply or did they click? If they did not. We're going to continue email triage1 which is only about delivering emails that give you access to the asset. I again I'm not introducing the brand or anything else unless you've shown proof of life. So but if you have clicked or replied amazing and triage level one and we're going to start triage two which is a whole set of different emails where now we're talking about our brand and the relevancy of that tool to what we sell. But I'm not getting to that yet because you haven't shown me that you actually want what you asked for which is clicking on the email so I see that you've loaded the asset or replying to me knowing that I actually know that you read and understood the email. So if they have not shown proof of life, what we then do is email to this email is almost like our first one with slightly different copy. So the text in the email is a little different. We're re emphasizing the entry point as a good decision for you. So again still all about the email or the asset you signed up for via email or sms. And then we're saying here's why this is great. We're reminding them why they want to sign up for it to begin with and we do the same repeat process. We wait six hours. If they did not open, we're resending that same second email. We call it email 2 with a different subject line and again we wait another 18 hours if they did not open to send the same second email a third time with now a third different subject line. So now that we have sent that one email, email two, three times, we are going to wait 47 hours and check again. Did they show proof of life being a click or an email? It's really important that if they buy from you, this is true with anything. If someone buys from you, you need to remove them from your onboarding sequence. The last thing you want to do is I just gave you money and now you're telling me and selling me on the thing I just bought from you. Oh my gosh, come on. We have the data, we have the technology, don't be sloppy. So we say remove them from email triage1 if they show proof of life being replied or clicked. But I'm just also remembering you remove everyone from your onboarding when they buy because then you're doing a post purchase onboarding. This is onboarding someone into your ecosystem as a lead, not as a customer. So what we have then if they did not show proof of Life. We now do our third email still. This is like your first one, right? You're telling them about this asset, and we're saying in this email, why this asset holds a lot of value. And we want them to understand that this they signed up for is amazing. And here's why. So then we'll do the same thing. Resend that email two more times with different subject lines if they still refuse to open. Now what happens, man? We send them three emails talking about this asset. We're like, this is amazing. But you didn't click or reply. Oh, my gosh. I want to be like, you're dead to me. But we're going to lead with grace and lead with empathy and just double check. So now what I'm going to do is I'm going to wait 95 hours and check if they showed proof of life. Still no proof of life. Okay, again, grace and empathy. So then we're going to ask a question. Is this their first time completing email triage? 1, hence getting those nine emails, right. If it's only their first time. All right, okay, let's be lenient, right? We're going to send them a text and this text is going to say, oh, funny checking in. You left me on read, huh? Let's keep this party going and try one more time. And then you know what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna recycle them into that entire email triage process. Exactly the same. They're gonna get potentially the exact same three emails sent potentially nine times. Right? So that means at this point, if they still did not show proof of life. Right. They've gotten 18 emails from us just talking about the asset. My assumption is that you're never going to buy from me. You're not even interested in what I said. You're one of those people that just like, plays the numbers on Tinder swiping. And I don't speak dating apps very well, but I'm not in the game of swipes. I'm in the game of trying to marry these folks because I want marriage to equal customer loyalty. And then we have many kids, which is a doing lots and lots of referrals. So in that if they have not completed any proof of life, again, we know that they completed one round of triage. So when we say it's their first time completing triage, we're like, nope, they've already done it. And it's their second time again, we're going to send them a text message with a little bit more concern. You can change the language, whatever makes the most sense for you. I'm just sharing how we use it as our template that our copywriters use as base. But now we're sending a text and saying, like, it's not me, it's a thousand percent you. I'm going to reignite the fire between us. Okay? And then we repeat triage one one more time. Okay. Still no proof of life. No reply, no click. I've just sent you 27 emails. I need to get you out of my system and I need to get you out of being a positive signal for my company and my brand and my marketing efforts. So now that I know it's their third time completing Triage one, I am sending them a final breakup text. I'm like, okay, I think we're going to need a break. I'm going to assume I'm perfect and amazing and you've just been abducted by aliens. What I then do is I disqualify this individual in my ecosystem. They're DQ'd as a lead, and I actually tag them as just a subscriber. That's it. You're not a lead anymore. You're just a subscriber. You're a Looky Lou. I'm okay with looky loos being in my system. I'll reach out to you every now and then. You might be able to evangelize my brand or let people know more about what we do at Mongoose Media, or who I am is Lauren Petrulo. But I'm not investing any more resources. Assuming you're going to actually buy from me as a subscriber, you'll get all weekly campaign email and maybe two extra campaigns a month. So we have a drip where our onboarding series, you get a different email each month or each week. So you'll get that because that's on autopilot and maybe you'll get a max of two campaigns per month. I'm not trying to bother you because you didn't have any time to bother looking at what I sent you. And then the only thing is, like, when they're tagged as subscriber only, you can then feed that back into meta and your ecosystem. So say, like, this is a negative lookalike audience. I don't want tire kickers in my ecosystem. So all of this allows us to turn the very first email in your onboarding lead sequence into a way that you can cockblock bad leads from getting into your system, bounce time and wasted efforts of emailing people that aren't interested into you. As well as having personalized conversations based off of who they are and what they are with their brand. If at the end of those 27 emails you've gone through the triage three times, assuming you have it slightly personalized per avatar that we talked about at the very beginning of this call, you will be able to set yourself up for better success so that your sales team and your efforts are only working towards the people that are showing you actual interest. The best benefit. Best. Oh man, there's so many good benefits. But my best benefit, because we do so much with paid media, especially on Facebook, is when I can build a negative lookalike audience of people that are actually interested. Impressions don't mean anything if there's no impact. This is how I am measuring impact, through emails and connecting it to the other parts of our ecosystems. When someone does show proof of life, you can build up awesome automations that can trigger sales teams notifications. You'll be able to have greater information so that when you're on the phone it's personalized always. There's lots of opportunity for you to improve how you email the folks that sign up for your system. And this is just how we do it at Mongoose Media. That was a long one. I hope for those listening that you were able to follow along. For those that were watching on YouTube, I also super hope that it was okay. Draw IO is not fancy. This isn't like a made up PDF. I'm just literally showing you behind the scenes of what's worked really well for us at Mongoose Media. And if you have any more questions about email triages and things of that nature, feel free to reach out at MongooseMedia US. But of course, join the conversation on telegram. Ralph and I are both there. Plus Kasim, you know that previous guy who we all know and love. He's also quite active in the group and I just want to thank everyone for taking the time to hang out with me as Ralph is doing his own thing. And hurry back, Come back. I miss you buddy. Okay, ciao everyone. Until next time. See ya. Me pretending to be Ralph. That wasn't very good. Oh my gosh. Okay, cool. Thank you. Bye. You've been listening to perpetual traffic.