"A VERY Valuable Asset" Epstein's Links To Mossad | Bassem Youssef vs Alan Dershowitz

Summary

Piers Morgan Uncensored – “A VERY Valuable Asset” Epstein's Links To Mossad | Bassem Youssef vs Alan Dershowitz

Date: February 12, 2026
Host: Piers Morgan
Guests: Ryan Grim (Investigative Journalist), Alan Dershowitz (Lawyer & Author), Bassem Youssef (Comedian & Activist)

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Episode Overview

This episode delves into the latest revelations from the Epstein files and tackles one of the most contentious theories: was Jeffrey Epstein linked to Israeli intelligence (Mossad) or broader intelligence networks? Piers Morgan moderates a vigorous debate between Bassem Youssef and Alan Dershowitz, with context and background provided by investigative journalist Ryan Grim. The discussion covers evidence from document dumps, debates about media coverage, and the broader implications of Epstein’s connections and prosecution.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Were Epstein’s Ties to Mossad Real?

Segment: [00:32] – [15:32]
Participants: Ryan Grim, Piers Morgan

• Piers raises widespread speculation about Epstein as an Israeli intelligence operation, referencing frequent claims from public figures and stating “the theory that Epstein was an intelligence asset…makes a lot of sense” ([01:12]).
• Ryan Grim lays out key circumstantial evidence:
  • Epstein’s 1982 Austrian fake passport is a red flag ([03:45]).
  • His close associations in the 1980s with Stan Pottinger (attorney tied to Iran-Contra), weapons trader Adnan Khashoggi, and Israeli intelligence-linked figures like Douglas Leese ([03:45]–[05:23]).
  • Ehud Barak (Israeli PM and ex-military/intelligence) frequently stayed with Epstein, with deep links to Israel’s cyber-weapons industry ([06:39], [08:12]).
  • Maxwell family connection, especially Ghislaine Maxwell’s father, Robert Maxwell, also suggested as possible Israeli intelligence ([05:23]).
• Grim argues:

  “Did he work for Mossad? It’s more like Mossad was working for Epstein.” ([00:32])

• Noted that being a spy or asset can be a grey area; agencies often ‘scratch each other’s backs’ with valuable insiders ([08:12]).

Memorable Quote:

“He was perfect territory, I would have thought, for an organization like Mossad to want to recruit, given how far his tentacles spread.”
—Piers Morgan ([07:02])

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2. Epstein’s Wealth: Dirty Money and Shadow Networks

Segment: [13:25] – [15:32]
Participant: Ryan Grim

• Grim draws a direct line from the Iran-Contra scandal to Epstein’s immense wealth, describing vast sums funneled through slush funds, shell companies, and money laundering involving Israeli and American intelligence ([13:25]).
• Connections with Les Wexner (who gave Epstein power of attorney) and other wealthy figures grew from these secretive financial origins ([13:25]–[15:27]).

Notable Explanation:

“Epstein’s right in the middle of all of that [Iran-Contra]. So you can imagine how somebody comes out of that with...a significant amount of wealth to begin with.”
—Ryan Grim ([13:25])

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3. Debate: Alan Dershowitz Defends His Role and Denies Mossad Link

Segment: [15:36] – [22:46]
Participants: Piers Morgan, Alan Dershowitz

• Dershowitz firmly denies Epstein was a Mossad agent—“no evidence” ([16:12]–[18:33]).
• Argues he, as Epstein’s lawyer, would have used any such connection to secure a “get out of jail free card,” but Epstein never revealed one ([18:33]–[20:33]).
• Claims conspiracies about Mossad are fun to discuss but baseless based on his knowledge and timeline ([16:12], [18:33]).
• Piers challenges Dershowitz, questioning if Epstein could have lived many secret lives even from him ([18:33]).
• Dershowitz: “Telling me he worked for Mossad would have given him a get out of jail free card. ... He would do anything to avoid prison time. Why wouldn’t he have told me?” ([19:14])

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4. Legal Morality and Accountability for Epstein’s Crimes

Segment: [20:33] – [22:46]

• Dershowitz clarifies: Epstein pleaded guilty to paying a 17-year-old and a woman in her 20s for prostitution, not to trafficking or pedophilia as legally defined ([20:56]).
• Claims he could have used intelligence ties as leverage for a no-jail plea, but never had such evidence ([20:33]–[22:46]).
• Notes, “He may have done all of those things, but when I was representing him, all he was being charged with was these two counts of paying prostitutes.” ([20:56])

Memorable Exchange:

Piers: “You mean if he’d said he was working with the Mossad...he would get off being a pedophile?”
Dershowitz: “That’s right...If he had been a member of the Mossad, any good lawyer could have parlayed his membership and his contribution to intelligence into a deal.”
([20:33]–[20:56])

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5. Bassem Youssef’s Counterpoint: Mossad, Media, and Legal Hypocrisy

Segment: [22:46] – [29:02]
Participants: Bassem Youssef, Alan Dershowitz

• Bassem sarcastically paints Dershowitz’s defense as a “recruitment video for Mossad”—implying powerful intelligence connections guarantee impunity ([22:52]).
• Launches into a rapid list of Epstein’s Israeli connections and pro-Israel activities ([23:56]).
• Accuses Dershowitz of “gaslighting,” both regarding Israel’s policy in Gaza and the Epstein case. Brings up allegations involving Mossad, Wexner, cyber deals, and involvement in compromising high-profile individuals ([23:56]–[26:39]).
• Tense exchange over accusations, settlements, and mutual interruptions; Dershowitz threatens to sue Youssef over claims regarding million-dollar settlements ([28:05]–[34:20]).

Notable Quote:

“Basically, they’re telling people if you’re Mossad, you can get away with anything.”
—Bassem Youssef ([22:52])

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6. Pointed Back-and-Forth: Lawsuits, Settlements, and Disputes

Segment: [27:14] – [35:34]

• Bassem accuses Dershowitz of paying settlements and attacking victims ([28:05]).
• Dershowitz adamantly denies, demanding direct quotes and sources, calls Bassem “a despicable liar,” and insists no money was paid for accusations against him ([29:06]).
• Prolonged, argumentative cross-checking of a New Yorker article, showing the tension over factual accuracy and personal credibility ([33:07]–[35:18]).

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7. Broader Context: Is Justice Even Possible in the Epstein Case?

Segment: [36:00] – [53:01]
Participants: Piers Morgan, Alan Dershowitz, Bassem Youssef

• Piers probes accountability: Why have no other high-profile men been prosecuted? ([40:57])
• Dershowitz suggests prosecutions should be based on hard evidence, not guilt by association or “McCarthyism.” Calls for unredacted disclosure except for minors ([50:36], [52:40]).
• Bassem ridicules the document dump process, likening it to a “TikTok challenge” or a dysfunctional scavenger hunt. Critiques the FBI and U.S. justice for pushing responsibility onto the public instead of prosecutor-driven investigation ([42:40]–[45:37]).
• Both Youssef and Morgan express cynicism that any powerful figures will ever see real consequences ([49:44]–[50:58]).
• Ongoing debates about the definition/use of terms like “pedophile,” “genocide,” and media complicity in shaping narratives ([39:38], [45:37]).

Memorable Quote:

“You have the FBI, you have the DOJ, you have unlimited resources...and the US Government response like, ‘Hey guys, let the Internet figure it out. You want some guy on Reddit cross-referencing flight logs at 2am while he's eating Cheetos?’”
—Bassem Youssef ([42:40])

Memorable Quote:

“I think that Epstein island showed us that in order to be powerful, you need first to be compromised. And as long as you are compromised, only then you can stay powerful.”
—Bassem Youssef ([49:44])

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8. Final Thoughts & Wild Theories

Segment: [53:01] – [55:06]

• Piers Morgan and guests reflect on conspiracy theories that once seemed wild but now appear plausible as new evidence emerges ([54:30]).
• Bassem references past “conspiracy” about Bill Clinton being compromised over Monica Lewinsky, linking back to Israeli intelligence ([53:11]).
• Dershowitz angrily responds, “Have you no shame?”
• Piers concludes that in the Epstein case, no theory can be dismissed outright until all, heavily redacted, evidence is genuinely public ([54:54]).

Memorable Quote:

“It’s got to the stage with the Epstein scandal where I would pretty much entertain the possibility of any conspiracy theory being true, because so many that were dismissed as conspiracy theories have emerged as having credibility.”
—Piers Morgan ([54:30])

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Notable Moments & Quotes (with Timestamps)

• Ryan Grim:

  “Did he work for Mossad? It’s more like Mossad was working for Epstein.” ([00:32])

• Piers Morgan:

  “He was perfect territory, I would have thought, for an organization like Mossad to want to recruit.” ([07:02])

• Alan Dershowitz:

  “Telling me that he worked for the Mossad would have given him a get out of jail free card.” ([19:14])
  “I could have gotten him no jail time if he had told me he was an intelligence source.” ([00:36], reiterated [19:14])

• Bassem Youssef:

  “You want some guy on Reddit cross-referencing flight logs at 2am while he's eating Cheetos?” ([42:40]) “Nothing is gray, Mr. Dershowitz. Nothing is gray. Genocide is not gray. Sex trafficking is not gray.” ([45:37]) “In order to be powerful, you need first to be compromised.” ([49:44])

• Dershowitz/Youssef Heated Exchange:

  “You are now going to be sued.” —Alan Dershowitz ([28:05])
  “You’re a despicable liar.” —Dershowitz ([29:33])

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Important Timestamps for Listener Reference

• Mossad asset theory & document dump context: [00:32] – [08:12]
• Epstein’s shadow finances: [13:25] – [15:27]
• Dershowitz’s legal defense & timeline: [16:12] – [22:46]
• Bassem Youssef’s counter & Israel/US establishment critique: [22:52] – [29:02]
• Allegations, legal threats, and settlement spat: [27:14] – [35:34]
• Discussion on justice, government transparency, & systemic failure: [36:00] – [54:00]
• Final reflections & wild conspiracy theorizing: [54:30] – [54:54]

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Overall Tone & Takeaways

The episode is tense, combative, and deeply skeptical, especially about institutional integrity in relation to the Epstein investigation. While Ryan Grim provides a sober, investigatory perspective, the debate becomes heated as Alan Dershowitz and Bassem Youssef clash over facts, language, and moral framing. Piers Morgan, typically provocative, expresses exasperation at the lack of transparency and accountability, characterizing the Epstein scandal as one where “any conspiracy theory” now seems plausible.

For listeners: This episode offers a whirlwind of documentary evidence, sharply contrasting legal and political worldviews, and unsparing criticism of the structures charged with holding the ultra-powerful to account.

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For Further Reading / Investigation

• Dropsite News: Stories on “Epstein Israel” (via Ryan Grim)
• The New Yorker (July 29, 2019) for Alan Dershowitz settlement context
• Times of Israel and Israeli authors on intelligence links and Epstein

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Host outro and ads omitted from this summary.

Transcript

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[Piers Morgan]

Terms.

[Ryan Grim]

Did he work for Mossad? It's more like Mossad was working for Epstein.

[Alan Dershowitz]

I could have gotten him no jail time if he had told me he was an intelligence source. It would have been a slam dunk for me.

[Piers Morgan]

Hang on a second. If he'd said he was working with the Mossad, then he would get off being a pedophile.

[Bassem Youssef]

You have the FBI, you have the doj, you have unlimited resources and the US Government response like hey guys, let the Internet figure it out. You want some guy on Reddit cross referencing flight logs at 2am While he's eating Cheetos?

[Alan Dershowitz]

You're lying. You're defaming me. You are now going to be sued. You are now going to be sued.

[Piers Morgan]

The latest release of the Epstein files has shone an unforgiving light on the shocking judgment and tawdry behavior of many VIP men. We've covered the revelations extensively, not least as they plunged the British government and royal family into historic crisis. But many regular contributors to this show and many of our viewers say the media is missing or willfully ignoring the big story that Epstein was an Israeli operation. That's what Cenk Uyga said. Why is the media not touching Jeffrey Epstein's clear connection to Israel? Asked Mehdi Hasan. Without question, the theory that Epstein was an intelligence asset made makes a lot of sense. He had a vast and mostly unexplained wealth. He kept meticulous and exhaustive records. He obsessively curated VIP friends who he invited to luxury properties wired for surveillance. He got an implausibly generous legal reprieve after the district attorney in Florida was told, quote, epstein belongs to intelligence, and the files certainly do reveal many ties to Israel. We know the former PM Ehud Barak stayed with Epstein frequently long after his conviction, and the connection certainly didn't end there. But the current Israeli Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, says it's a red herring. Epstein's unusual close relationship with Barack doesn't suggest Epstein worked for Israel. He posted it proves the opposite. So what do the files prove? In a moment, we'll debate this with Bassem Youssef and Alan Dershowitz. But first, here to help answer that question is Ryan Grimm. He's investigative journalist and co founder of Dropsite News. Ryan Grimm, welcome back to Uncensored. There are so many files here, and I have noticed just on an almost daily basis now, there's a lot of stuff in there about Israel, about Ehu Barak, about Epstein. And people are beginning to put all this together and saying that actually what initially was dismissed as a kind of outlandish conspiracy theory may well be closer to the truth, that Epstein. Epstein may well have been some kind of Israeli agent potentially working with Mossad. But you've studied these files in a lot more detail than most. What is your assessment of that?

[Ryan Grim]

It's not a simple question. It doesn't have a simple answer. What I'd first tell people is just Google or use a search engine that functions Dropsite News, Epstein Israel, and you'll find a series of stories that we have published already and that we're consistently adding to. But then you can also ask yourself just some basic questions.

[Alan Dershowitz]

All right?

[Ryan Grim]

How did he get an Austrian fake passport? I mean, a real passport with a fake name in 1982? Like, that's. There aren't. There aren't many regular people that can get, you know, fake passports to help them travel around the world. Another important thing to understand is that, you know, three of the people that he is very closely associated with in the 1980s are Stan Pottinger, who is a attorney, who is known to have moved money for the CIA during Iran Contra. Adnan Khashoggi, who is like the banker during Iran Contra. He's moving money and weapons. A Saudi, Saudi figure, and Douglas Lees, a weapons contractor. He was a protege to Douglas Leese. He was a business partner to Stan Pottinger at the time that Stan Pottinger was heavily involved in Iran. Kocher and he was and he knew and he ran in the same circle as Adnan Khashoggi. And he has a fake passport. And then he emerges out of Iran Contra with enormous amounts of wealth and power and connection. And then of course, there's the Robert Maxwell connection. Ari Ben Monash, who I don't know if you've had him on your program. You should if you haven't. Former Israeli intelligence official himself has said that Epstein knew Maxwell, whether or not he did that's an open question. Just those connections alone. And then for Netanyahu to say that, well, okay, he was very close with Ehud Barak, therefore he had nothing to do with Israeli intelligence is absurd. Ehud Barak played a central role, however you want to define it, in Iran Contra. He was an Israeli intelligence official throughout the 1980s. He becomes prime minister, becomes Minister of Defense. His, you know, another top Israeli spy who is a protege of Ehud Barak, Yoni Koren, you know, stayed for, like, weeks at a time at Epstein's apartment in Manhattan. So I think the public hears all of this information, and it's like, okay, I kind of think we get it. What is confusing is that, did he work for Mossad? That part is confusing, because if you think of Mossad or any. Any spy service as a spy service, like, what is it in service of? These spy services are in service of extraordinarily powerful kind of multinational global networks of individual figures. And so it's not as if, you know, is Mossad or something like that he was working for them. It's more like that Mossad was working for Epstein. Now, that's putting it quite too simply. But if you understand the way that power works at the top global levels, they are able to direct the services of these different agencies, rather than him filling out a W9 and sending it into Mossad.

[Piers Morgan]

Yeah, I mean, there's so much to unpack there. I mean, I'm just looking at some of the references we've identified that have come from the latest dumper files. In 2018, Epstein asked Ehud Barak in an email to make clear, I don't work for Mossad. Which in itself is quite an intriguing instruction to a former Israeli Prime Minister.

[Ryan Grim]

I don't work for Mossad. T shirt is raising all these questions.

[Piers Morgan]

Yeah, right. Yeah. I mean, it's like, why are you saying that? In 2017, Epstein asked Barack if someone had asked him to help obtain former Mossad agents to. To do dirty investigations and so on. There are lots of these kind of quite cryptic messages going on. I guess the obvious response I would have is, well, why wouldn't he be? I mean, he was perfect territory, I would have thought, for an organization like Mossad to want to recruit, given how far his tentacles spread around the globe around rich, powerful, famous people. In the same way that when people have suggested that there's a lot of references to Russia and Putin and so on in there as well, well, that wouldn't surprise me either. You know, he was clearly recording people for some form of Kompromat Maybe it was, it was self protective or maybe he was doing this for large sums of money on behalf of foreign states. I mean, you know, I just, I've reached the point with the Epstein scandal where I'm pretty much prepared to entertain any conspiracy theory until I see concrete evidence it's not true.

[Ryan Grim]

It would be, you're right, it would be malpractice on the part of Israel or any spy agency at this point not to have attempted to recruit somebody like him who had the access, obviously utterly amoral or immoral in character and knows how to move money around, knows how to do money laundering, knows how to do weapons trafficking, knows how to traffic in commodities like this is, this is a very valuable asset. And it's important to understand there's a difference between an agent who's like hired by Israel, you know, to go out and infiltrate or to, you know, do assassinations or whatever they do, and an asset who is somebody who you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours. And it appears like he's much more kind of in that realm. It's also important to understand what he and Barak were doing for the 15, I guess the five years or so after he became, left his office of Minister of Defense and then Epstein died. They were, you know, central to the kind of expansion of the Israeli cyber weapons program, which itself is very connected to the Israeli state itself and has helped shape what's what web surveillance, cyber surveillance looks like around the world now because all of these multinational major corporations you've heard of are just scooping up all of these Israeli startups that are themselves filled with people who came out of, you know, unit 8200. And Barack is one of the key players in the growth of that industry. And Epstein was with him every single step of the way.

[Piers Morgan]

Yeah, and there are, you know, there are direct references in the files. There's a confidential informant to the FBI that Epstein was employed by Mossad. An FBI report from the Los Angeles field office in October 2020 said the bureau's source had become convinced Epstein was a co opted Mossad agent. It said Epstein had been trained as the spy for Mossad, alleging he had ties to the U.S. and allied intelligence operations through his longtime personal lawyer, Alan Dershowitz. I can ask Alan in a moment about that. Also said Jared Kushner, President Trump's son in law, and his brother Josh, the financier, were both his students. Now, there's no independent evidence to corroborate that. This is one of many kind of intriguing references in There. And I should say as a caveat, there are obviously many things in the document dump which are outlandish and just tips that have come in which you know, are obviously complete nonsense. But there's certainly not anybody could write in here. Yeah, of course, yeah. And that has to be made clear with all of this stuff. But you know, the mere fact of his incredibly close relationship with Ehu Barak and as you say working on this cyber stuff, I mean that alone shows that he's certainly very, very close to the higher echelons of Israeli political life. You know, maybe he wasn't a fully paid up Mossad agent, but he was certainly what I would categorize as somebody right in there with the Israeli hierarchy.

[Ryan Grim]

That's right. And he's not the kind of guy that needs to invoice for services. Like he's so far beyond that world. You know, even if he wasn't a complete, you know, he's always referred to as a billionaire. So let's take that at, at face value. If not, he's worth hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars. And what he's doing is he's striking cybersecurity deals with Ivory coast, with Nigeria, with Mongolia, with South American countries just around the world. And his relationships with the upper echelons of the Israeli government which allows, which because it is a state recognized by the United nations, you know, allows kind of groups of people who otherwise would just be kind of gangsters going around the world to operate, you know, through you know, semi official channels. He's the guy that's operating in the, in the gray zone. And then in the end you come in and you know, make a, make an official like corporate and then you know, state to state agreement. That's how he's getting paid, being the middleman there, not by invoicing Mossad for his services.

[Piers Morgan]

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[Ryan Grim]

Well, you have to understand that during Iran Contra, hundreds of millions, eventually up to a couple billion dollars, were stashed away in these secret slush funds that were controlled mostly by the Israelis because the Israelis were the. The middlemen. And the CIA had their own slush funds as well that were coming off of the profits that they were making from basically upselling weapons to Iran. Think about that. By the way, Netanyahu is here in Washington today urging Trump to bomb Iran because of this gigantic threat. In the 1980s, it was Israel and the United States who were arming Iran to the teeth and making a huge profit out of it. Out of that, they created this network of shell companies and slush funds that had to kind of secretly move constantly to avoid detection from, you know, people that are, like, trying to, you know, uncover money laundering. And Epstein's right in the middle of all of that. So you can imagine how somebody comes out of that with their, you know, with a. With a significant amount of wealth to begin with. And from there, he, you know, gets linked up with Les Wexner. We have a story even about how the planes that were involved in Iran contrast when the heat really got on them, Epstein moved those planes to Columbus, Ohio, so Les Wexner could use them for a couple of years, shipping his lingerie and Abercrombie and Fitch around the world. So there's really a direct line from this Iran Contra scandal that creates this kind of shadow world of money laundering and kind of develops into the quasi, like, government criminality that we have today. To then Les Wexner and him becoming the power of attorney for Les Wexner. And then once you're locked in, oh, he's the rich guy who also handles Les Wexner's money, then you're in. Then you can start getting contracts with people like Leon Black and others, and it just snowballs.

[Piers Morgan]

Fascinating. Ryan Grim, I really appreciate you coming on. Thank you very much.

[Ryan Grim]

Yeah, my pleasure.

[Piers Morgan]

Well, to debate all of these claims is Alan Dershowitz, author of the Preventive State, and Jeffrey Epstein's former lawyer and comedian and activist, Bassem. Youssef. Well, welcome to both of you, Alan Dershowitz, I know you said emphatically you do not believe Jeffrey Epstein was a spy. But as more and more stuff appears in these document dumps from the files, there is more and more stuff linking him to Israel, to Ehud Barak, to all sorts of stuff. Are you still as certain?

[Alan Dershowitz]

More. More. So look at the chronology. As far as I know, he doesn't meet Ed Barak until after he pleads guilty. And if he had been a spy, because before he pleaded guilty, the first person he would have told that was me. I was trying to get him the best possible deal. And I asked him over and over again, what can you tell me that will get you a better deal? Do you have anything on Trump? Do you have anything on Clinton? Do you have anything about intelligence? He would have told me instead, in 1999, 1998, I was in Israel doing research for a book, and he called me from Paris saying, I want to come to Israel. I've never met any Israelis. I don't know anybody there. Could you arrange a lunch for me with Israel's five smartest people? And so I did. I got the justice of the Supreme Court, the Attorney General, you know, interesting people that I thought he would meet. And we had lunch, and then he and I took a walk in the shook, and I bought him a T shirt which said, I'm a member of the IDF kind of khaki T shirt. And he loved it. He wore it. You know, there's no possibility that he was working for Intelligence at the time I was representing him. Now we have a chronological issue. He meets Ehud Barak, but that's later. Did he. Did Mossad hire him after he was convicted? Well, maybe. Your previous guest talked about planes involving Victoria's Secret. Well, Wexner didn't buy Victoria's Secret until well after the early times. So one has to look at the dates, one has to look at the chronology. You know, I hate to pour water on a fascinating conspiracy theory. It's so much fun to talk about. But from what I know, I just don't see any evidence that he ever worked for the Mossad. And if he did, why wouldn't he have told me? I actually was a lawyer. I represented the Mossad back in the 90s when three Mossad agents were caught in Cyprus, and Cyprus thought they were working for Turkey. In fact, they weren't, and I hope to get them out. I have a very good relationship with the current head of the Mossad, the former head of the Mossad. Obviously, I've asked them that question, and there's no evidence of what we've seen.

[Piers Morgan]

I would say, Alan, I would say this to you, you know, if I was to ask you about all the despicable crimes that Epstein was committing. Right. You would say. Because I think you've said it publicly, you didn't know about any of that. Right. So, of course, could it be that Jeffrey Epstein just had a completely different life that he just did not tell you about, and that included despicable human sex trafficking, and it may also have included being a spy? I mean, clearly, if he wasn't telling you about all the sex trafficking, which was a huge amount of his life, then why is it surprising if he kept the rest of it from you?

[Alan Dershowitz]

Well, it's very surprising because telling me about his sex life didn't help him. Telling me that he worked for the Mossad would have given him a get out of jail free card. Remember, Jeffrey Epstein hated me before he died. He wrote all kinds of letters to Woody Allen as to what a terrible lawyer I was. He wouldn't pay me my fee. He fired me because he thought I had gotten him a terrible deal. That famous sweetheart deal. He ended up 18 months in prison. He was outraged. He didn't want to spend a minute in prison. I could have gotten him no jail time if he had told me he worked for the Mossad, for the CIA, he was an intelligence source. It would have been a slam dunk for me to go to whoever I had to go to, even up to the President of the United States, and I would have gotten him a deal with no time at all. Epstein was a selfish sob. He would do anything to avoid prison time. Why wouldn't he have told me that he worked for the Mossad if he worked for the Mossad? So, yeah, of course he's not going to tell me when I knew him as an academic acquaintance. He's not going to tell me he's having sex with young children. He hid that from everybody. He did have a separate life, a completely separate life. But once I was his lawyer, it was in his interest to tell me things that would benefit him. And I can't imagine anything benefiting him more than having worked for an intelligence agency. But I pressed him on.

[Piers Morgan]

I mean, some people might. I'll come to Bassim in a moment. But some people will be listening to this going, hang on a second. You mean if he'd said he was working with the Mossad or CIA, then he would get off being a pedophile? In other words, you can commit crimes of people. No, he wasn't accused of children. And you would simply not go to prison for it.

[Alan Dershowitz]

That's right. Let's be clear. He was charged with two counts. One, a 17 year and 10 month old woman who he paid for prostitution. The other, a woman in her 20s who was a prostitute, who he paid. Those were the only two things he pleaded guilty to. The only two things he's ever been convicted he was never convicted of. Peter Filya, he was never convicted of trafficking. None of that. He may have done all of those things, but when I was representing him, all he was being charged with was these two counts of paying prostitutes. One who was 17 years old and 10 months. I could have gotten him no jail time for that. If he had been a member of the Mossad, any good lawyer could have parlayed his membership and his contribution to intelligence into a deal. Or, for example, if he had anything on Donald Trump or anything on Bill Clinton. Of course, any prosecutor would exchange this. Nobody who nobody had ever heard of at the time getting free from prison for, my God, the President. Former president, future president. No. The best evidence is that he never, ever tried to tell me anything that would help him, that would support any of these theories about, about Clinton or Trump or the Mossad. So I am completely confident that he was not an intelligence asset. I wish. You know, your previous guest is right. He would have been a perfect intelligence asset. If I were the head of the Mossad, you know, I would say, oh my God, now that I know who he knew. Bill Gates, everybody. The sultan of this, the sultan of that. Sure, we try to recruit him, but they didn't know that at the time because he didn't have many of those friends back in the 1980s and 1990s. Many of them became his friends, ironically, after he got out of prison.

[Piers Morgan]

Okay, Bassem Youssef, you've been waiting patiently. Welcome back to Uncensored. What is your response to Alan Dershowitz?

[Bassem Youssef]

Well, I think that what Mr. Alan Dershowicz just said is the best recruitment video for Mossad. Basically, they're telling people if you're Mossad, you can get away with any. Anything. The same thing that will happen with Tom Alexandrovich, the cybersecurity guy from Netanyahu's government who was arrested in Nevada for trying to lure a minor in an FBI stint operation. And he got off the hook. He traveled. He didn't even have to attend his trial. He did zoom from Israel. And like Ori Solomon, just a couple of days ago, there was a Biolab in Nevada that nobody is actually talking about. Actually, as a matter of fact, the mainstream media, they reported it, but they never mentioned his nationality as an Israeli who was running a bio lab in Nevada that includes deadly viruses. If that was a Muslim, it would be like all over the News. So basically, Mr. Dershowicz is telling us if you're Mossad, you have like an out of jail card. And you know what? Maybe he's right.

[Alan Dershowitz]

Or a CIA. Or a CIA.

[Bassem Youssef]

Alan. Mr. Dershowitz, I did not interrupt you a single, single second when you talked. So after you're done with the gaslighting. Please let me finish. First of all, I think I'm now kind of leaning towards believing mainstream media, especially CBS and CNN under Barry Weiss and Larry Ellison, I mean, the evidence is there that he is actually a Russian asset. His girlfriend, Ghislaine Maxwell, who's the daughter of a Mossad super spy, he was represented by you, Mr. Dorshevitz, Israel's favorite lawyer, who you're also a lawyer to the Mossad, which of course, everything you tell us will be true. Ehud Barak was at his place the whole time. He fled to Israel when he was charged with sex crimes. And he was pictured wearing an IDF shirt. He was funded by pro Israel fanatics. He worked for the Rothschild. He donated to pro Israel student groups. He was responsible for the Wexner's group's pro Israel philanthropy. He supported Israel settlement projects. His friends were all Zionists. He referred to us as Goyem. He was involved in Israel diplomacy effort. He broker security deals with Israel. And even a former Israeli intelligence officer, Ari Ben Menashe, like Mr. Ryan Grimm said, he said he ran a heliput for Israel. So yes, of course he was definitely a Russian spy. Makes sense. You know what, I am actually, by the way, Mr. You're a good comedian. This is very funny, but I'm a huge, huge, huge fan of yours because I have known you since the 2000. I mean, actually, you're one of the very few lawyers who were actually known in the Middle East. It's like watching a real life courtroom drama lawyer. There's even T shirts with your face in it in Egypt. And I've followed you for a while. And that's why I'm here today. When they told me Mr. Dershowitz is here, it's like I have to be here just for the gaslighting, because the level of gaslighting isn't new. For more than two and a half years, Mr. Dershowitz and his client Israel have glasslighted us in front of our eyes for two and a half years. With all of the destructions and the killing that we've seen in Gaza, we. But they. According to them, it's not a genocide, it's self defense. He told us that every dead child.

[Alan Dershowitz]

Is not a genocide. That the international.

[Bassem Youssef]

I did not interrupt you, sir. That the International Court of Justice is a fake, anti semitic. Mr. Jersey, please. I did not interrupt you. Don't interrupt me. I know that you're a lawyer and you do that. Objection.

[Alan Dershowitz]

I'm going to interrupt you.

[Bassem Youssef]

Don't interrupt me. Now. The testing files are public. People can read them. People can see the horrible stuff that. You again are gaslighting us in your own word. You said that he's not a pedophile because he liked 15, 16 years old, but not 11 and 12 years old.

[Alan Dershowitz]

No, I said 17 and 10 months. People can read 17 and 10 months.

[Bassem Youssef]

You can read the ages of the kids in the emails. They can read about the pizza, the ice cream, the peas jerky. And you can see the connection with Israel. And yet here you are again gaslighting us. This is your playbook, attacking the victims. It's called Palestinians, Hamas terrorists. Victims, liars, prostitutes, drama students.

[Alan Dershowitz]

And of course you say Hamas are not terrorists. You have a history investigators to dig.

[Bassem Youssef]

Through teenage girls at MySpace pages looking for marijuana, sports, what lawyers do. You called a 16 year old girl a thief in the Daily Mail. You got.

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[Bassem Youssef]

Epstein, 13 months in county jail with workers for abusing 34 victims where he should have got life in prison. That's not a plea bargain, that's a spa package.

[Alan Dershowitz]

And every single time your defense is. I challenge you to defend. I challenge you to defend your statement that he presented at 18 months.

[Bassem Youssef]

Stop interrupting me, Mr. Dershowitz. You're just a Syrian and got him the deal of the century. Two women accused you under oath. You settled for nearly a million dollars. Innocent men don't pay.

[Alan Dershowitz]

That's another lie. Not a Penny, you're lying. You're defaming me. You are now going. You are now going to be sued. You are now going to be sued for saying I paid a million dollars. You're going to be sued. I would Pierce cutting him off when he says that I owe a million dollar.

[Bassem Youssef]

Trust. You instead.

[Piers Morgan]

Bassam, you've spoken for a long time. Okay, Bassam, you've made it. Mr. Basim, you've spoken for a long time. Bassam, you've spoken for a long time. You've made a number of allegations.

[Alan Dershowitz]

There is going to be. I am going to respond.

[Bassem Youssef]

Keep interrupting him. I didn't interrupt him.

[Alan Dershowitz]

Okay, I am going to make it very clear.

[Bassem Youssef]

He shouldn't be interrupted.

[Alan Dershowitz]

I'm going to make it very clear. I'm going to make it very clear. I'm filing a lawsuit immediately. I'm instructing my lawyers to file a lawsuit against him for saying I paid $1 million. What happened is a woman falsely accused me. She admitted she may have mistaken me and confused me for somebody else. She dropped all of her charges. Not a single penny was paid. Nothing. And it's all in the agreement.

[Bassem Youssef]

All a matter of the New Yorkers.

[Alan Dershowitz]

You saying that I paid a million dollars is going to result in you having to pay me many millions of dollars. What'd you say?

[Bassem Youssef]

This is from the New Yorker.

[Alan Dershowitz]

The New Yorker never said anything like that. You know, you're such a liar. You know, I thought you were a comedian. I thought at least you'd be funny. You're just a liar. You're just somebody who is prepared to make any kind of anti Semitic, anti Israel statement.

[Bassem Youssef]

Oh, anti Semitic.

[Alan Dershowitz]

Stuck with that, Mr.

[Piers Morgan]

Dirty.

[Alan Dershowitz]

No, I want you to justify the million. I want you to justify that I paid a million dollars. I want you to justify that. Will you justify it? Will you justify that I paid $1 million? Where do you get that piece of nonsense? Where did you make a terrorist organization?

[Bassem Youssef]

If you want to sue somebody, you.

[Alan Dershowitz]

Show me the New Yorker. I'll pay you a million dollars. You're a liar. The New Yorker didn't print that. You're lying.

[Bassem Youssef]

Okay, take your time.

[Alan Dershowitz]

Out now. Go online. Get. Get the New Yorker and show the people that are listening, the good people, the New Yorker. You're lying through your teeth. You're a despicable liar. And if you said it under oath, you'd be a perjurer. There is no truth to what you've said, period. And I'm going to sue you.

[Bassem Youssef]

Oh, come on. You do?

[Alan Dershowitz]

Is that what you Finally, I shut him up. No, you didn't shut up.

[Bassem Youssef]

You're just like. He's just like cutting me. Mr. Allen, you went from I never got a massage on Epstein to I got a massage from a 50 years old Russian woman named Olga. But I take my underwear home.

[Alan Dershowitz]

And I both received therapeutic. I received a neck massage back in the 1990s. I have never received an erotic massage in my life. I have never told a misstatement about this. And I want you to show everybody the New Yorker. The claim that the New Yorker said I paid a million dollars. It's an outright lie. You can look it up right now while we're talking.

[Bassem Youssef]

Show it.

[Alan Dershowitz]

Show them what you say. The New Yorker said. I'm waiting. Look it up.

[Bassem Youssef]

Yeah, I'm looking at right now. It is called the. For people to search it.

[Alan Dershowitz]

Let's see it. Let's see it. Everybody can see it.

[Bassem Youssef]

It's called Alan Dershowitz.

[Alan Dershowitz]

Maybe It'll Mitigate your.

[Bassem Youssef]

July 29, 2019. You can read there. That is there.

[Alan Dershowitz]

Read me the quote. Read me the quote. About a million dollars. You can't find it because it's not there because you made it up and means you're a despicable liar and you're going to be sued. And if you want to mitigate your damages, then you'll show me the New Yorker. But you're not going to show me the New Yorker because everybody out there is going to look you in the eye and. And say you lied on international television about Dershowitz paying a million dollars and the New Yorker saying it. It is false. Categorically false. I'm calling you a liar. You can sue me for defamation. And if you can produce the New Yorker article, you'll win that case. But you can't because it doesn't exist.

[Bassem Youssef]

No, sir. I can read it to you right now. I mean, it's there.

[Alan Dershowitz]

Yeah. Read it to me right now. Read it to me. Let's hear.

[Bassem Youssef]

Okay. Do you have a second?

[Alan Dershowitz]

I have more than a second. I have all the time you want. Read me a New Yorker statement that says I paid a million dollars to the woman who accused me falsely and who admitted that she may have misidentified me with somebody else. You read me that right now?

[Bassem Youssef]

Yeah, yeah.

[Alan Dershowitz]

Silence. Silence.

[Bassem Youssef]

Dude, it's a big article way down.

[Alan Dershowitz]

Silence.

[Bassem Youssef]

I do.

[Alan Dershowitz]

Find me the relevant point. Find it for me. We have all the time in the world. Find it for me. Let's go. Find it for me. You can look it up. Google has it. Would Say Dershowitz a million dollars.

[Ryan Grim]

Oh, here it is.

[Bassem Youssef]

Here it is. Here it is. We caught you in 2015 when Jeffrey's allegation against Gislam Mirza and Epstein. Okay. Just before a trial was to begin in May 2019. The amount was undisclosed, but Jeffrey reportedly received a multimillion dollar settlement. The allegation was denoted who did. Wait, dude. Jeffrey.

[Ryan Grim]

Veronica Burn.

[Alan Dershowitz]

So you said I paid a million dollars to the woman who accused me falsely. I want you to quote that from the New Yorker. And if you can't admit you're a liar, Senor. Silence. Profound silence.

[Bassem Youssef]

Dude, stop it. Stop.

[Alan Dershowitz]

Guilty Silence.

[Bassem Youssef]

Dude, it is, guys. Yes, here it is.

[Alan Dershowitz]

No, it isn't. No, it isn't. You're lying. Sorry.

[Bassem Youssef]

In April 2016, the case settled. There was no such set with the press reported that the agreement in case.

[Ryan Grim]

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

[Bassem Youssef]

The press reported that the agreement included a financial arrangement implying that Jeffrey's team had paid it. In fact, Dershowitz insurance company had paid Jeffrey's lawyers. In negotiations the parties has discussed a figure of nearly a million dollars with 50,000 going to Dershevish case which would allow him to find. Has not been disclosed.

[Alan Dershowitz]

But you know it a. You know it was. This had nothing to do with Virginia.

[Bassem Youssef]

You want to go and this had.

[Alan Dershowitz]

Nothing to do with the woman who accused me. This was a lawsuit between lawyers and it had nothing to do with this accusation. Zero.

[Bassem Youssef]

You're made up the whole story in New York.

[Alan Dershowitz]

Never.

[Bassem Youssef]

A company paid the lawyers.

[Alan Dershowitz]

They paid. They also paid me. There was a mutual settlement where both sides paid each other. They got like each of us covering our legal fees. And this was about lawyers that. This was not about any accusations against me.

[Bassem Youssef]

I invite everybody to go to read the New Yorker article and see what over the years.

[Piers Morgan]

Let me say something now.

[Alan Dershowitz]

Let's get back to merits. We know he's a liar. We know he's not a fucking comedian.

[Bassem Youssef]

Liar, anti Semitic, it's the same thing.

[Piers Morgan]

All right, let me. Let me pull it back to the bigger picture.

[Bassem Youssef]

How would I believe you if you have.

[Piers Morgan]

Let me pull it back.

[Bassem Youssef]

Back.

[Piers Morgan]

Let me put it back. Alan, I want to just talk to you about something you said earlier because there's been a bit of confusion about this. I think in the public domain. You said in the end that the settlement that Epstein made pertained to a 21 year old and a 17 year old. But many of the containment contemporaneous reports about this settlement refer to a 14 year old girl who Epstein had paid for a mass sergeant.

[Alan Dershowitz]

That was not part of the case.

[Piers Morgan]

So can I.

[Alan Dershowitz]

That was not part of the case, the indictment.

[Piers Morgan]

But that precipitated the investigation. Right.

[Alan Dershowitz]

Let me tell you what happened. A 14 year old girl was heard over the phone talking to her, another friend about whether or not she could get a massage from an older man. That precipitated the investigation. But the investigation culminated not in any kind of an indictment regarding that 14 year old. There was no evidence of it. And so in the end the 14 year old claim disappeared. The only evidence that they were able to prove to get a grand jury indictment was a 17 year old and 10 month person and a woman in her 20s, an adult who has agency. Both of them in the indictment were called prostitutes and he was indicted for paying money to soliciting two prostitutes, one of whom was 17 years old and 10 months. The 14 year old was.

[Piers Morgan]

Right, so the 17 year old. But to be clear, indictment, to be clear, legally. Okay, but Alan, to be clear, the 17 year old was a legal, was a, was a legal minor, of course.

[Alan Dershowitz]

And that's why he plea, that's why he pleaded guilty to it and went to jail for it. He deserved to go to jail.

[Piers Morgan]

Do you believe? Do you believe?

[Alan Dershowitz]

Yeah.

[Piers Morgan]

So I interviewed one of the legal team on behalf of some of these girls involved in that case who said that he was offended about the characterization of any minor as a prostitute.

[Alan Dershowitz]

Well, that's. Then he should complain to the prosecution. It's what the prosecution put in the indictment. We didn't write the indictment. The prosecution put it in the indictment. They did an investigation. They found out that these were young women who were coming for pay, were being paid money to give massages. They defined that as prostitution. It wasn't us who did that, that was the prosecutors who did that. So that's all.

[Piers Morgan]

When you say, when you say he wasn't convicted. Okay, but when you say. Okay, when you say he wasn't convicted as a paedophile. He was though if you, if you have, if you do a deal that.

[Alan Dershowitz]

Involves a minor, we, you can quibble over words, but medical definition of people.

[Piers Morgan]

Well, no, it's a legal definition, isn't it?

[Alan Dershowitz]

He pleaded. No, no, no, that's not the legal definition. The legal definition is underage. The word pedophile is never used legally for anybody who's 17 and 10 months. But we're quibbling. He pleaded guilty to 17 and 10 months. He was guilty of that. It's a despicable, terrible thing. He may have had Sex with even younger people. But, but he was never convicted of that. He was never charged with that. He probably would have been charged with it had he stayed alive, but he wasn't. But let's stick to the facts. He pleaded guilty only to two charges of soliciting a 1710 month old and an above age person for prostitution. That's what the state charged him with. That's what he pleaded guilty to. That's what the federal government agreed would be the deal that would terminate the federal prosecution. That's what happened.

[Piers Morgan]

He hated if you have any sexual relations with a minor. Yeah, but Alan, Alan, if you talk about quibbling, but if you have sexual relations with a minor, you're a pedophile.

[Alan Dershowitz]

No, that. Well, I don't want to fight with that because you can call him whatever you want, that's fine. You call him a pedophile. But no medical doctor, no psychologist will tell you that a 17 year old 10 month woman who's taking money to give massages is subject to the other person being called a pedophile. But let's not get into that. Call him a pedophile, that's fine. He pleaded guilty to charges of having sex for money with a minor. Yes, he did that and he did much worse than that. And he was a despicable human being who deserves no pity whatsoever. But that doesn't give anybody license to simply lie about what happened. For example, one of the papers in Israel when talking about Aya Barak said he was convicted of having sex with a 14 year old. No, he wasn't. He was investigated for that and the investigation terminated with no prosecution for a 14 year old. Did he have sex with a 14 year old? I have no idea. Maybe the prosecution has an idea. Maybe it's true, maybe it's not. But it's not true that he was convicted of that. Never.

[Piers Morgan]

So what is your assessment, Alan Dershowitz now, of what Jeffrey Epstein did? And why is it that no really high profile American men in particular have been brought to account for what was going on?

[Alan Dershowitz]

Well, one name has been. One of the names that was recently disclosed by congresspeople yesterday was Leslie Wexner. And I think it's very appropriate to investigate Leslie Wexner. He went back to Jeffrey Epstein many, many, many years. Let me give you my assessment of what happened. Look, there were real victims, horrible victims, people who should never, never have been put through this. People who are underage. And I have tremendous compassion for these victims. But then there's another category of people, women who are 25 who came back over and over again and received $150, $200. Then they went and they recruited 14 and 15 year olds for Epstein and they were paid to recruit for Epstein. These people should also be investigated. They may have been victims, but they were also perpetrators. It's a lot grayer than the black and white of victimization and survivalization and all of that. It's much more complex than that. But there's no justifying what Epstein did. It was terrible. It was awful. I wish I had never laid eyes on that sob. He's an awful, awful human being. That's the job of a criminal defense lawyer, to defend and get the best deal. I thought I got the best deal. He thought I got a terrible deal.

[Piers Morgan]

Basim Youssef, what is your wider view about the Epstein scandal and the so far? Very limited accountability for other people involved.

[Bassem Youssef]

Well, you see, I'm actually like the FBI just dumped millions of unredacted or redacted Epstein files on the public and said, you know what? Here you go, have fun. It's like a scavenger hunt. Like you expect. Like, it's kind of like a TikTok challenge. Can you find the pedophile? You have the FBI, you have the doj. You have unlimited resources, unlimited power, unlimited budgets. This is the biggest sex trafficking scandal in modern history. Billionaires, politicians, royalty and all hanging out on pedophile island. And the US Government response like, hey guys, let the Internet figure it out. What is this, a group project? Are you serious? You want me to do your job? You want some guy on Reddit cross referencing flight logs at 2am While he's eating cheetos? You want tiktokers playing a game of Clue? Hey, it was Prince Andrew has a massage with the undergird. What is this? It is not the job of private citizens to figure out clues. I don't understand. Is the FBI too busy to do their job? Here's what should have happened. They should have released the name. They should have arrested predators. They should have hold the trials like a functioning justice system. But no, instead you give us 4 million trillion documents with no index, no categorization, redactions everywhere, then say, hey, good luck with that guys. Let us know if you find anything. Wallaha Azim, not even a third world country dictatorship would do that to us. In third world countries they would release nothing, keep us in the dark, you know, like a self respected dictatorship. But this, like this choose your own adventure bullshit does this like figure it out on your own. What kind of service Is this like. I mean, the government takes half of my money so I can do its job and. And then sends the half. Other half to Israel. I mean, this is just like dysfunctional, you know, and I'm just like, you know, and my wider view of this, you know, my first time I appeared with you peers, I talked about, like, how Israel is like a narcissistic psychopath. And it went viral because people felt it. Because you see, narcissists don't just lie to you. They create an entire alternate reality and pull you into it. That's why it's called the narcissist shared reality. The narcissist build an alternate highly controlled reality and pulls other people into it. And in that false reality, the narcissists are always, you know, they're special, they're misunderstood, they are victimized. And then Israel does this on a national level for decades, right? They have told us we're the victim, we have no choice. It's self defense, you know, and in the same thing now with Epstein, it's a huge reality. Oh, maybe he's a Russian spy. Maybe he is. It's like it's right in front of our eyes and we have to go through these like mental gymnastics and figure it out. It's right there. Nothing is gray, Mr. Dershowitz. Nothing is gray. Genocide is not gray. Sex trafficking is not gray.

[Alan Dershowitz]

I agree with you. I agree with you. And it wasn't committed. Genocide is what was committed.

[Bassem Youssef]

That you are a lawyer to defend.

[Alan Dershowitz]

Your parts of Africa. Genocide was committed many times.

[Bassem Youssef]

Why do you keep cutting the.

[Piers Morgan]

Alan, respond.

[Alan Dershowitz]

No, no, first of all, let's be very clear. Genocide has a.

[Bassem Youssef]

Okay, you know what? I can just like, log out because.

[Alan Dershowitz]

Genocide is not fighting war. Let me. You're allowing me respond, please. Genocide is fighting. No, you didn't.

[Bassem Youssef]

You responded. It's my turn to speak. Let me. Cut me off. Let me respond to the courtroom, Mr.

[Alan Dershowitz]

Are you gonna let me respond?

[Bassem Youssef]

No, he didn't let me respond.

[Alan Dershowitz]

So here's the point, okay, you're not.

[Bassem Youssef]

Gonna let me respond. You know what? This is just like.

[Alan Dershowitz]

Let me respond.

[Bassem Youssef]

No, I will not let you respond because he didn't let me talk.

[Alan Dershowitz]

You're not going to let me respond.

[Bassem Youssef]

And I will not let me talk. It's just like, it's. It's just like childish at this point.

[Alan Dershowitz]

Well, we can't continue then. If he won't let me talk, we can't continue.

[Bassem Youssef]

You are not letting me talk.

[Alan Dershowitz]

Now he wants. The man who runs this show wants to give me an opportunity to respond. Will you give me an opportunity to respond? Let me explain to you what genocide means. Genocide is the willful killing of an entire population in order to wipe out the population. The way the Germans and the Nazis took little babies from the Isle of Rhodes, put them on trains, transported them to the gas chambers to kill them unrelated to war efforts. Genocide is not dropping an atomic bomb in Hiroshima. It's not bombing Berlin, it's not bombing Japan, and it's not what Israel did in Gaza when Hamas hid behind civilians and Israel notwithstanding that they had the best ratio of combatants to civilians of any war in recent times. Even if you take all the Hamas figures, it's less than 3 to 1, probably closer to 1 to 1. At worst it's 2 to 1. Most wars it's 10 to 1 or 8 to 1. So there's not even a plausible claim of genocide. Only anti Semites and people who are willing to engage in a blood libel are prepared to compare what Israel did defending itself in Gaza with what Nazis did In Germany, killing 6 million Jews, Roma people, people from all countries. Those were genocide. What the Muslims did in Turkey killing the Armenians, that was genocide. What's going on now in Syria against the Kurdish people, that's genocide. These aren't war fighting defenses, that's genocide. But when a country tries to defend its civilians by killing terrorists who are hiding behind civilians and civilians die, you could call it a lot of things, but the one thing you cannot call it is genocide and maintain your credibility as a decent human being, that is a. Call it genocide.

[Piers Morgan]

Okay, you've. All right, you've both made your, your.

[Bassem Youssef]

I didn't make any points. I really didn't make any points.

[Piers Morgan]

Yeah, I'm going to come to you, Bassem, for the. Bassem, I will come to you to respond. I just want to point out that on the Epstein scandal, what is quite telling is that the prediction markets, which people follow closely these days. Polymarket asked, will anyone be jailed over the Epstein disclosures? It reached a high of 48% at the beginning of the month, but it's now down to just 17%. And the Trump administration did, of course, promise, including on this show, that we'd see many prosecutions. It does seem quite extraordinary that now it's looking more and more likely that nobody will be jailed other than a woman. Ghislaine Maxwell. Okay, Bassim, you can have a final response to. Well, we need to see it, I think. Bassim, your final response?

[Alan Dershowitz]

I'd like to see it, too. I'D like to see a complete, thorough investigation. Anybody who committed crimes, including falsely accusing people of crimes, should be put in jail. And anybody who committed crimes, pedophilia or anything else like it should be put in jail. And I hope they are okay on that.

[Bassem Youssef]

We all agree. I think that Epstein island showed us that in order to be powerful, you need first to be compromised. And as long as you are compromised, only then you can stay powerful. This is the conclusion of all of this. None of these people go to jail. There will be, like, a couple of full guys. You know, Peter Atteya, he will lose his thing. You know, all of this. It's important. But the billionaires, the people in power, they will be untouchable. We will not see a single person that's gonna go behind bar unless he's not protected.

[Alan Dershowitz]

They have to be guilty.

[Bassem Youssef]

Mr. Dershowitz.

[Alan Dershowitz]

Guilty. Who are they? Dude?

[Bassem Youssef]

What? I can't even talk about you. What. Why are you. It's just, like. It's so frustrating.

[Alan Dershowitz]

I care about innocent people being prosecuted. I care about McCarthyism. I don't want to see a return of McCarthyism.

[Bassem Youssef]

I'm sorry, what did I just say?

[Alan Dershowitz]

Association.

[Bassem Youssef]

What did I just say that?

[Alan Dershowitz]

How do we know if there are billionaires who were involved? If there are, let's name them, let's get the evidence, and let's prosecute them, and let's put them in jail, but not on the basis of McCarthyism, not on the basis of guilt by association. Let's do it on the basis of real evidence.

[Bassem Youssef]

I'm in favor of that.

[Alan Dershowitz]

You and I agree with that.

[Bassem Youssef]

Punished. And no one will go to jail. And these people will go. When these files have retreated. Even with all of these redactions, the one thing that should have been done, that all of these people should be now be at least investigated. We didn't even. You have, like, an FBI director, and you have. Thank you. You have an FBI director who. Who came out and said, there's no sex trafficking. And the email was proved otherwise. You have all the people. There's nothing. And then the emails proved otherwise. And you have, like, the FBA director, Cash Vettel, who said, once America needs to wake up and prioritize Israel. Don Bongino, second man in the FBI, said, like, Israel is very close to my heart. How do you expect truth from these people? I think. I mean, they are all, like, working for a different master, and they're not working for the American people. So I really don't expect anything. None of these people will see a Day of investigation, a day of jail.

[Piers Morgan]

All I know, okay? All I know is will be people.

[Bassem Youssef]

Who are useless or unimportant.

[Piers Morgan]

Yeah, I kind of agree with you, Basim. I do think that, unfortunately, the Trump administration, before and after the election, made it clear they were going to be totally transparent. All the files were going to get released. We've now had 3 million heavily redacted files released, and there's apparently over 3 million more which are never going to see the light of day. That is not transparency. And that is why the conspiracy theory.

[Alan Dershowitz]

They should.

[Piers Morgan]

I want everything out and. Yeah, but. But that's. That's part of the problem, man. And if no. If no rich, powerful people in the end are made remotely accountable, people will assume they are if their names were redacted or. Or never published. Yeah, but unless you publish the files, they can hide behind the redaction, the lack of publication.

[Alan Dershowitz]

Every name should be published, including the name of those who accuse them, so that if there's a false accusation, the people who have been accused can confront their accusers. Otherwise, it's McCarthyism. That's why from day one, I wanted no redactions. I want everything out there. The only redaction should be for minors, people below the age of consent.

[Piers Morgan]

Okay, we're gonna leave it there. I appreciate you both coming on and debating this and appreciate that.

[Alan Dershowitz]

Thanks for having me.

[Piers Morgan]

You. You're not going to agree about much. I'm grateful for the debate. Thank you very much.

[Bassem Youssef]

Oh, by the way, Piers. Piers. Mr. Ryan Grimm, the one that you have hosted in the beginning of the show. First of all, I'm a huge fan of Mr. Ryan Grim. And as a matter of fact, I want to remind you of something. When I went to you in London a couple like a year and a half ago, I brought up to you the fact that Bill Clinton was compromised when Netanyahu told you that we have the tapes of Monica Lewinsky. And at that time, you called me. This is. You called me, like, stupid conspiracy theories, and you told me this is ridiculous. Mr. Ryan Grim has made, like, a complete investigation about this. So please, if you would like, host him again so we can tell you how Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinsky was actually a Mossad operation.

[Piers Morgan]

Well, you know what I would say in response to that?

[Alan Dershowitz]

After all, sir, have you no shame?

[Bassem Youssef]

After all. Share. Have you no shame? I mean, it's enough.

[Alan Dershowitz]

No shame.

[Ryan Grim]

Not at all.

[Alan Dershowitz]

You're accusing. You're accusing an innocent, young Monica Lewinsky. You're accusing her of being complicit with Clinton in some kind of a Mossad scheme. You have no credibility. That's enough.

[Bassem Youssef]

Check the Times of Israel and check the book that was written by an Israeli author about this. Your people are actually saying that and wrote stuff about that, sir.

[Piers Morgan]

Okay. As I said in a previous panel, actually it's got to the stage with the Epstein scandal. It's got to the stage of the Epstein scandal where I would pretty much entertain the possibility of any conspiracy theory being true, because so many that were dismissed as conspiracy theories have emerged as having credibility. But we shall see. There's a lot more still to pore over.

[Alan Dershowitz]

We shall see.

[Piers Morgan]

Thank you both very much.

[Alan Dershowitz]

We shall see. Let's make sure there's evidence of everything. Evidence, that's.

[Piers Morgan]

Yeah, let's see the evidence. Let's see the evidence. But thank you both very much.

[Alan Dershowitz]

Well, that's what I want to see. I want to see all the evidence. Thank you.

[Piers Morgan]

Okay, we're going to leave it there. Thank you. Piers Morgan Uncensored is proudly independent. The only boss around here is me. If you enjoy our show, we ask for only one simple thing. Hit subscribe on YouTube and follow Piers Morgan Uncensored on Spotify and Apple podcasts. And in return, we will continue our mission to inform, irritate and entertain. And we'll do it all for free. Independent, uncensored media has never been more critical, and we couldn't do it without you.