'FROZEN OUT By Ben Shapiro' Piers Morgan x Jeremy Boreing On Candace Owens, Tucker Carlson & Fuentes

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Piers Morgan Uncensored

Episode: "FROZEN OUT By Ben Shapiro" – Piers Morgan x Jeremy Boreing on Candace Owens, Tucker Carlson & Fuentes
Date: January 30, 2026
Host: Piers Morgan
Guest: Jeremy Boreing (Former CEO & Co-Founder, The Daily Wire)

Episode Overview

This episode features a candid discussion between Piers Morgan and Jeremy Boreing, former Daily Wire CEO, dissecting conservative media feuds, the Candace Owens controversy, Ben Shapiro’s relationship with Israel and free speech, the new right’s divisions over Israel, the rise of figures like Tucker Carlson and Nick Fuentes, and the challenge of creating culture in polarized times. With raw exchanges and unfiltered moments—including soundbites from Candace Owens—Morgan and Boreing probe whether conservative media is living up to its own standards and what comes next for the American right.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Rise and Evolution of The Daily Wire

• Genesis & Ambition (04:14–05:32): Boreing reflects on founding The Daily Wire to bypass traditional media gatekeepers and create culture, not just critique it.

  “We saw the opportunity… to get a message sort of around the traditional gatekeepers and directly to the people…” – Jeremy Boreing [04:18]

• Hits and Misses: Despite mistakes, Boreing is proud of the “$1 billion worth of revenue” generated and the company’s impact.

2. The Candace Owens Controversy

• Candace’s Transformation (06:42–07:53): Boreing voices concern about Owens’ shift toward conspiracy promotion and “audience capture.”

  “The problem with trying to wield cynicism for clicks is that cynicism ultimately will to you.” – Jeremy Boreing [06:42]

• Memorable Soundbite:

  “Ben Shapiro, Fuck you and the midget horse that you rode in on. I say that on behalf of the world.” – Candace Owens [00:00, 08:47]

• Boreing’s Assessment:

  “She’s whip smart… The camera absolutely loves her… But like you, I’m very concerned about the direction she’s taking.” – Jeremy Boreing [07:44]

3. Ben Shapiro, Free Speech & Israel

• Morgan’s Personal Experience (09:14–13:24): Piers details how Shapiro ceased all contact after Morgan criticized Israel’s actions in Gaza.

  “A little part of me is like Ben’s, you know, he’s brilliant… but where does that sit if you do criticize Israel?” – Piers Morgan [10:50]

• Boreing’s Defense: Shapiro’s deep Jewish identity and the context of “nuance being weaponized to mask antisemitism” make criticism of Israel more complicated for him.

  “It’s very difficult… when nuance itself is being sort of weaponized as a way of masking actual anti-Semitism by so many.” – Jeremy Boreing [11:54]

• Freedom of Association: Boreing argues free speech does not require continued engagement:

  “Free speech says you have the right to say it. It doesn’t say that I have the obligation to continue to engage with you…” – Jeremy Boreing [13:26]

4. Alleged Rivalries: Shapiro, Kirk, and Owens

• Owens’ Accusation: She claims Shapiro was jealous of Charlie Kirk and aimed to bring down Turning Point USA.
• Boreing’s Response: “That’s absurd… Ben and Charlie had a very lengthy relationship…” – Jeremy Boreing [16:36]

5. Fracture on the American Right Over Israel

• Tucker Carlson vs. Candace Owens: Boreing distinguishes between Tucker’s “political project” and what he calls Candace’s “cynical economic play.”

  “Tucker… is engaged in an actual political project… I don’t think what Candace is doing is fundamentally political at all.” – Jeremy Boreing [18:05]

• Rise of Anti-Israel Right Figures: Morgan underscores how the longstanding pro-Israel consensus is splitting, with big names now opposing Israeli policies.

6. Nick Fuentes and the Limits of Media Engagement

• Fuentes Effect:

  “What Nick Fuentes is doing will have actual political resonance for the rest of our lives… I don’t think it does any good to engage in conversation… he is wielding you…” – Jeremy Boreing [21:15]

• On Platforming Extremists: Boreing recommends ignoring figures like Fuentes, as engagement only strengthens their brand:

  “[His] fans… don’t even see the same interview… you are a prop.” [22:25]

7. The Future of MAGA and the American Right

• Identity Crisis: As Trump exits the stage, the American conservative movement splinters with various factions vying for influence.

  “MAGA as a concept really outlives Donald Trump… I think it’s a real moment of ideological uncertainty on the right.” – Jeremy Boreing [24:06]

• Diversity of Right-Wing Ideas: Some try to return to Reagan-Tea Party ideals; others blend populism from both ends of the spectrum.

8. Trump Loyalty & Recent Political Events

• Boreing’s Voting History:

  “2 out of 3 ain’t bad.” – Jeremy Boreing [26:42]
  He did not vote for Trump in 2016 (“Never Trump”), but has since supported him as president.

• On Incidents Like Minneapolis: Both agree a partisan team mentality dominates American politics, but tragic events (like the border shootings) risk shifting public perception and require policy correction.

  “No one wants to see someone, an unarmed man in captivity, be shot… There have to be consequences…” – Jeremy Boreing [32:38]

9. Creating Culture: The Pendragon Cycle

• New Project: Boreing describes “The Pendragon Cycle” as an Arthurian myth TV series, part of an effort to build and preserve Western narrative identity.

  “Our national identity is really the immune system against tyranny… That’s what the Arthurian legend is to me.” – Jeremy Boreing [34:40]

• The show is high-budget, non-woke, and aims to reinforce virtue in culture.

10. Boreing’s Future Plans

• Post-Daily Wire Direction:

  “I will… have to focus on my own mission as independent from the broader mission of a big network… I’m looking forward to that freedom.” – Jeremy Boreing [37:19]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Candace Owens’ parting shot at Ben Shapiro:

  “Ben Shapiro, Fuck you and the midget horse that you rode in on.” – Candace Owens [00:00, 08:47]

• On the trap of audience capture:

  “If you say things long enough, you come to believe them. The most convincing voice in the world is our own voice.” – Jeremy Boreing [07:20]

• The defense of disengagement in the age of disagreement:

  “It doesn’t say that I have the obligation to continue to engage with you when you do say it.” – Jeremy Boreing [13:26]

• On trying to handle Nick Fuentes:

  “When you have a conversation with him, you are a prop, and he is wielding you to make all the jokes and get in all the points for his initiated audience. And for that reason, you can’t win a debate with him.” – Jeremy Boreing [22:46]

• Cultural mission statement:

  “I want to help preserve our culture in story form. I want to have a voice in national and international politics. …I want to put more of my efforts into creating culture than criticizing it.” – Jeremy Boreing [37:12]

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Key Segment Timestamps

• Opening/Intro to Candace Owens Clip – [00:00–00:14]
• Daily Wire’s Founding & Philosophy – [03:32–05:32]
• Candace Owens Assessment – [06:42–07:53]
• Ben Shapiro, Israel, and Free Speech – [09:14–14:33]
• Ben & Jeremy Friendship, Parting Ways – [14:57–15:54]
• The ‘Anti-Israel Right’ Emerges – [17:27–19:05]
• Nick Fuentes & Media’s Limits – [19:05–23:11]
• State of MAGA & Conservative Right – [24:06–26:37]
• Trump, Minneapolis, and Partisan Loyalty – [28:23–33:17]
• The Pendragon Cycle – [33:17–36:51]
• Boreing’s Next Steps – [37:12–38:01]

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Tone and Language

• Unfiltered, direct, occasionally profane (e.g., Candace Owens’ viral clip)
• Reflective and occasionally regretful (on media splits and former friendships)
• Analytical, seeking nuance yet conscious of the charged, tribal nature of current debate

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Summary for Non-Listeners

This episode of “Piers Morgan Uncensored” provides a deep, behind-the-scenes look at the fracturing of the American conservative media world. Jeremy Boreing pulls back the curtain on The Daily Wire, evaluates the rise (and potential fall) of its most controversial stars, and assesses the challenge of upholding principled debate amid rising tribalism. Boreing and Morgan explore why conservative unity is giving way to open feuds—on Israel, Trumpism, and how to handle far-right extremists like Nick Fuentes or the opportunistic turn of figures like Candace Owens. With thoughtful skepticism, they ask whether a new, post-Trump conservatism can emerge—and whether it will be grounded in virtue or volatility. The episode combines frank admissions, sharp humor, and serious reflection on how the right, as well as Western culture at large, might rebuild in a tumultuous era.

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Transcript

[Candace Owens]

Ben Shapiro, Fuck you and the midget horse that you rode in on. I say that on behalf of the world.

[Piers Morgan]

Ben's a fantastic proponent for free speech. Where does that sit? If you do criticize Israel, one can.

[Jeremy Boreing]

Imagine that it's very difficult to hear nuance when nuance itself is being sort of weaponized as a way of masking actual anti Semitism by so many.

[Piers Morgan]

How best to deal with people like Nick Fuentes?

[Jeremy Boreing]

What he's doing is actually very sophisticated. I'll watch every clip and laugh 90% of the time.

[Piers Morgan]

Well, love it or hate it, the fact is that social and digital media are now at the apex of pretty much all popular debate. It's where opinions are formed, values are interrogated and agendas are set. Kamala Harris diverted a plane to New York for a 90 second cameo on SNL. Donald Trump toured dozens of podcasts and spent three hours with Joe Rogan. You know which one became president. The Daily Wire was ahead of the game in harnessing the potential of digital media and the exodus from the mainstream media. The cost of its success is of course, significant scrutiny. It's often accused of failing to live up to its own standards on things like free speech. Commentators like Tucker Carlson and yes, Candace Owens say it's on the opposite side of a battle for conservative values with an unhealthy appetite for Israel and war. Well, Jeremy Boren could co founded and ran the Daily Wire. He also hired Candace Owens. In a moment he'll respond to that. But first, a quick reminder of his first and only previous appearance on Uncensored, where he found himself challenging Bassem Youssef in a clip now viewed 24 million times.

[Jeremy Boreing]

I think the sort of lie of the Post World War II, the post war consensus lie, is that somehow war in which you kill a bunch of people and don't secure victory is morally superior to war where you do secure victory. I would say that the only way to morally justify a war is to win it. Otherwise the very argument that brought you into the war, this enemy must be defeated ends up being proven a lie.

[Unidentified Caller/Questioner]

How can you justify the killing in the west bank where Hamas does not exist? And if the disproportionate response during the overall of these years has have actually worked, what will be new this time? That did not happen before. I just want to. That was my question.

[Piers Morgan]

Okay, well, I'm pleased to say that Jeremy Boring, the former Daily Wire CEO and director of the Pendragon cycle, joins me now. Jeremy, welcome back.

[Jeremy Boreing]

Good to be back and glad that you're Back on your feet?

[Piers Morgan]

Well, I actually am not actually back on my feet. I'm. I'm still on crutches and glad that.

[Jeremy Boreing]

You'Re back on the air.

[Piers Morgan]

Yeah, I'm back on the airways, let's put it like that, which is certainly a step up from where I was last week. Interesting that your only other appearance, 23 million people watch that. In a way, that was the catalyst, actually, that show, because of the response on YouTube for me to reach the conclusion you had reached many years before, obviously, with the Daily Wire, that the future is not conventional linear television, mainstream media, but that actually, through the medium of places like YouTube, that is where young people in particular are going in bigger and bigger numbers. So thank you for being part of that catalyst. You were at the Daily Wire, I think, was how long in the end? For 11 years.

[Jeremy Boreing]

Just 10 years? Yeah, 10 years. Founded the company and in that time, California, actually. In my pool house.

[Piers Morgan]

Right. So I was going to ask you because you managed to build a business, a billion dollar business, and I've watched it with great admiration from afar. I've had lots of people from the Daily Wire come and go on uncensored, obviously, including some who've left you, like Candice. And we'll come to that. When you started the Daily Wire, what. What was the sort of. What was the. The dream that you had in your head? Has it manifested how you hoped in your wildest dreams? Or in the end, did it become something perhaps you preferred it not to have become?

[Jeremy Boreing]

Well, I think that, you know, when you start something like the Daily Wire, of course you're going to make mistakes. Things aren't always going to go the way that you thought that they were going to go. I think we got a lot more hits than we had misses, though. When we first started the company, we saw the opportunity being afforded by emerging social media platforms to really help us get a message sort of around the traditional gatekeepers and directly to the people, a message that we thought needed to be expressed. We were all LA guys, so of course we also wanted to create culture, not just criticize culture. And we did all of those things over the decade that I was running the company alongside Caleb Robinson and in partnership with Ben Shapiro. So, yeah, I think I would have to say that we really achieved most of the things that we set out to achieve. And of course, some of them we achieved beyond our wildest imagination. Of course, you couldn't have foreseen all of the mistakes either. But part of being an entrepreneur is being comfortable with the idea that you're going to make mistakes, that things aren't always going to go exactly according to plan or even according to plan at all. And you're going to have to react and pivot and make changes in the moment. I think we successfully did that, too, which is why, as you say, we, we grew $1 billion worth of revenue over that 10 years and deployed all of that money in pursuit of those fundamental values that we had when we first established the company.

[Piers Morgan]

You created some massive stars or taken people on and made them much bigger stars. And people have come and go. Ben's still at the top of the pyramid and we'll come to him. Candice Owens was one of the people that you brought into the Daily Wire family, and then she had a spectacular falling out with everyone, notably over Israel. What's your view of Candace? I mean, my view, for what it's worth, I've had her on uncensored many times. I know her a little bit away from the camera. She's unbelievably smart. She's a brilliant debater. She's compelling. She's great on camera, all of these things. But I've watched in the last couple of years drifting to a place where I really, really have reservations about whether she believes half the stuff that she's putting on her show. You know, whether it's Brigitte Macron being a man or all the Charlie Kirk stuff or whatever it may be. I do think she's now gone down a path of deliberately promoting conspiracy theories for cash. What is your assessment?

[Jeremy Boreing]

Well, the problem with trying to wield cynicism for clicks is that cynicism ultimately will to you. And I think that's true of a lot of the sort of mistakes that we make in life. We always think that we're too clever for the sort of, you know, the sort of evil that exists in the world to ever touch us. I've asked Candace on two separate occasions what she actually believes. On both occasions she said, I believe what the people believe. I am the voice of the people. And of course, both times I don't know what that means. Candace, I've come to understand, though, at least from my point of view, I think she's articulating the idea of audience capture and expressing it as a positive value. Does she actually believe the things that she's saying? I don't know. I do know that if you say things long enough, you come to believe them. The most convincing voice in the world is our own voice. To your point, though, Candace is a genuine superstar. I Mean, she has it. The thing that we talk about in show business. She has it in spades. I've never met anybody with any more of it. The camera absolutely loves her. To your point. She's whip smart when she's using those powers in service of the true and the, and the good and the virtuous. I think there's nobody better. But like you, I'm very concerned about the direction that she's, that she's taking it.

[Piers Morgan]

Right now we've got a little mashup of things she said about the Daily Wire and about Ben. Let's take a look at this.

[Candace Owens]

I'm Terri. That is coming from Daily Wire management, Daily Wire commentators regarding things that I've said, positions that I have, or just appearances that I am making. And, you know, I would, I would like to really leave the Daily Wire in the rearview mirror. Like when you break up with someone and you have a crazy ex. That was how it felt like being fired from the Daily Wire. Andrew Clavin of the Daily Wire released a one hour video essentially accusing me of many things but referring to me as anti Semitic, trying to link me to Nick Fuentes. This one is so fully off of the mother effing plantation. Truly, Ben Shapiro, Fuck you and, and the midget horse that you rode in on. And I say that on behalf of the world.

[Piers Morgan]

What's your feeling when you hear that?

[Jeremy Boreing]

Well, she says it on behalf of the world, so it must be true. Listen, it's funny to hear Candace, who will do literally now, you know, over 50 episodes on the Charlie Kirk assassination, talk about other people fixating. You know, this is, it's ridiculous. Candace is very good at what she does. She makes very compelling television. And that's all you're seeing in the those clips.

[Piers Morgan]

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[Jeremy Boreing]

Well, I think Ben's been a great champion of freedom of speech. Of course, Ben, as probably the most famous religious Jew on earth, has very strong opinions about Israel. And, you know, I can't speak to him, not texting you back or appearing on the show during that period of time. And I haven't been in daily contact with Ben in the last 10 months because of leaving the Daily Wire and all the changes that have happened as a result of that. But I can say that I think one might understand why when so many voices in the media have gone so far in their, you know, quote, unquote opposition to Israel, which was a very thin veneer on actual anti Semitism. I think as time has gone on, we see what's behind that mask more and more from so many people in public life. One can imagine that it's very difficult to hear nuance when nuance itself is being sort of weaponized as a way of masking actual anti Semitism. By so many.

[Piers Morgan]

But isn't that ultimately what the whole free speech debate comes down to? It's the ability to listen and tolerate people's views you don't like, even if you find them hateful? There is nothing I've ever said which could be remotely construed as anti Semitic or any dislike or hatred of Jewish people. And he knows that. He really doesn't want to engage with me at all simply because I became more critical of the Israeli government. And I think that's inconsistent with his stance about free speech.

[Jeremy Boreing]

Well, I don't think it's inconsistent with a broad support for free speech to not engage with people who say things that you don't like. It's free speech says that you have the right to say it. It doesn't say that I have the obligation to continue to engage with you when you do say it. So I'd be careful about that. But then, of course, we're getting into fairly personal territory here where only Ben could speak for himself. I would only again point out that I think that over the last few years, a lot of people have said, I'm only criticizing Israel. Don't I have the right to criticize a foreign government? Which, of course you do have the right to criticize a foreign government and your own government or any government, but because that was used as a kind of Trojan horse by so many who have since exposed real anti Semitism, you know, one can imagine that if you were in the position of Ben Shapiro or other very prominent Jewish figures in the political debate, you know, that that would be a tough. A tough thing to hear when it's been weaponized by so many. Is that what he's feeling? I don't know. Again, I can't speak to him.

[Piers Morgan]

Yeah, I don't expect you to speak for him about it. I was just curious because I know Candace fell out with him over the issue of Israel, and I think she has said things which are certainly borderline, could be construed as anti Semitic. So I think it's a different situation, but I'll leave her to have that argument with him. Did you fall out with Ben at all, personally, towards the end?

[Jeremy Boreing]

Well, certainly neither of us set out to see this kind of separation. Right. When you. When you get married, you don't think too much about divorce. And Ben and I had a long and very productive partnership over the last 15 years. I mean, really, going back before the Daily Wire, I was on the phone with Ben as he walked out of the studio from that infamous Constitution when he Handed you the Constitution, that infamous appearance that you referenced. Yeah, a little bit ago. So we, you know, we had a long, a long partnership and, you know, when something like that comes to an end, of course it's going to leave a mark. But we fought in a lot of battles together. We were in the trenches alongside one another for a long time. I think that probably creates a bond that, that isn't easily broken. As I like to say, if, if Ben ever needs a kidney, I've got one. I suppose if Caleb needs a kidney, I've got two. If they need a kidney at the same time, they'll have to duke it out because I'm keeping one from myself.

[Piers Morgan]

When did you last talk to Ben?

[Jeremy Boreing]

Ben sent me a message on the day that Charlie Kirk was shot. Obviously, Ben and I met Charlie at the same time at the same event at the breakers in Florida when Charlie was a teenager. So we both had a very long relationship with Charlie and, and Ben sent me a very kind message, just checking on me and, and, you know, the kind of things that would be expressed between two brothers in a moment like that.

[Piers Morgan]

One of Candace Owens accusations has been that Ben was jealous of Charlie Kirk's success and influence and he wanted to bring down the Turning Point organization. You would be better placed than most to know if that was true. What do you say to that?

[Jeremy Boreing]

No. Well, listen, in public life, we all have little rival rivalries at times and little jealousies at times. You know, there were times when I got on the. On the wrong side of Charlie or Charlie got on the wrong side of me or where, you know, any of us in the space for whom that may be true. But to say that Ben was engaged in a project to take down tpusa, that's absurd. Ben and Charlie had a very lengthy relationship. You know, one of, one of Charlie's last guests on his show was Ben Shapiro. And I think that's just indicative of the long relationship that they had. And for the, you know, as far as I ever saw, and I think I had a lot of transparency into it, Charlie would stop by anytime he was in Nashville and check on us at the Daily Wire. So I don't think there's any truth to that.

[Piers Morgan]

It's very interesting to be watching from the sidelines, if you like, about how it always used to be the case the conservative right in America would line up full square behind Israel, for example. But now that's not the case. Now you see people like Tucker Carlson, you see Candace, you see Dave Smith, you see a lot of People now who are very outspoken against Israel. And you're seeing a real split I guess there. What do you make of that? Have you noticed this? Do you feel concerned about it? What's your feel about the way this has gone?

[Jeremy Boreing]

Well, I'd be careful not to conflate Candace Owens, who is sort of the queen of the grift industrial complex with Tucker Carlson, who like him or, or, or leave him, is engaged in an actual political project. You know, as far as I can tell, Tucker is trying to create a new American majority out of a sort of amalgamation of left wing economic populism on the one hand and right wing social populism on the other. He's actively engaged behind the scenes at the White House in staffing decisions. He wields his influence to try to effectuate a political end. I happen to disagree vehemently with him about what I perceive to be the political good, but at least what he's doing is fundamentally political. I don't think what Candace is doing is fundamentally political at all. I think that she's engaged in a kind of self aggrandizement and click chasing audience capture, economic, cynical economic play. I don't perceive that about Tucker.

[Piers Morgan]

How best to deal with people like Nick Fuentes? You know, I had him on the show recently. I think 5, 6 million people watched it. There's no doubt there's a huge interest in this guy. I think I challenged him pretty robustly over all his views, but you know, his technique was to kind of brazenly just admit most of it. Yeah, I'm a racist. Yeah, I'm this to mock the Holocaust and so on and so on. You know, it's quite hard to have a serious conversation with somebody that does that kind of thing. His gripers, his followers loved it. Of course nobody ends up, you know, they just declare total all out victory, whatever. I didn't feel I got much out of it, to be honest with you. But you know, people like him are increasingly popular. I know that you had quite strong views about him. I don't think he appeared at the Daily Wire, certainly not in recent years. What's the best way to handle people like that who are phenomena out there? If you don't platform them, they go unchallenged. If you do, they kind of use it to fuel themselves and become ever more popular. What's the best way, do you think, to handle this? Small businesses drive our economy, but securing capital is a constant struggle. Of the 36 million small businesses in the United States, over 70% report needing additional capital at least once per year. Big banks are burying owners in mountains of paperwork for months. If you want competitive bank rates without all those frustrating bank delays, visit our sponsor, Cardiff Co Peers for up to $500,000 in funding. Cardiff's application takes less than five minutes and has no impact on your personal credit. Approvals happen in minutes. Banks try to lock out small business. Cardiff has the key. Big banks may not want to approve your business loans, but Cardiff does. If you've been in business for at least a year and you're pulling in $20,000 a month in revenue, apply now for up to $500,000 in the same day business funding at Cardiff Co Peers. Again, that's Cardiff Co Peers Real growth fast.

[Jeremy Boreing]

Well, I do think that it's a flaw in the immune system of popular media that we don't have good tools to deal with people who, who aren't playing by any sort of rules that we identify. You know, I think the Daily Wire's position under my, during my tenure was to ignore Nick Fuentes and not have him, not to give him any exposure. The problem is, of course, that Nick engages in enormous amounts of irony. You know, his, his fans understand the plan, they trust the plan. They don't even see the same interview that your average audience member sees when they're, when they watch you talk to Nick Fuentes, it might as well be a completely different show that they're watching because Nick isn't, Nick isn't having the surface level conversation. What he's doing is actually very sophisticated. It's incredibly funny. I mean, I, I have to admit I have to mute Nick on social media because I'll watch every clip and laugh 90% of the time. He's very, very talented. And if you see what he's doing, listen, I despise what he's doing. Again, I think that he's also engaged in a true political project. And so I don't want to completely, I don't want to discount him or be dismissive of him. I think that what Nick Fuentes is doing will have actual political resonance for the rest of our lives. And I think it's a thing that has to be opposed. And as someone on the right, I believe that, you know, it's my job to oppose it. But I don't think that it does any good to engage in conversation with him as though the conversation is of the sort that you and I are having right now where we're just exchanging ideas in good faith. Nick Fuentes is not exchanging ideas with you in Good faith. When you have a conversation with him, you are a prop, and he is wielding you to make all the jokes and get in all the points that he's hoping to get in for his very select, initiated audience. And for that reason, you can't win a debate with him.

[Piers Morgan]

Right, I agree. I totally agree. When it comes to MAGA itself, this extraordinary revolution, in many ways that's twice propelled Donald Trump to the White House, it feels quite fractured at the moment. And we're seeing more and more examples of this where how does America first sit with decapitating Maduro in Venezuela or attacking Iran or whatever it may be? You know, when you see the Minneapolis shootings with ice, you know, I'm seeing a lot of people on the right now condemning it. I'm seeing others vehemently trying to defend it and so on. You're seeing a lot of, like, disparate voices in the MAGA base, or certainly the conservative right incorporating it. How profound is that getting, and what does that mean for it going forward?

[Jeremy Boreing]

Well, MAGA is probably like, yes, we can, which was Barack Obama's famous line, right? Yes, we can. Yes, we can. Si se puede, of course, has a long history, particularly in Latin America on the left, but in America, popularized by Barack Obama. I don't think MAGA as a concept really outlives Donald Trump. I think it's something that he embodies. He's. He has said that, and I think that he's right, which is why you see this division happening on the right today, because we're going into the midterms right now. Midterms typically not good for the party of the president in this country. And once you're through the midterms, we're going to be back in a new presidential cycle, and it'll be the first presidential cycle in the last decade in which Donald Trump isn't, you know, seeking the office of President of the United States. And so what that means is everyone on the right who wants a hand in defining the future of the party sees a non Donald Trump centric future just right within reach. And so for that reason, there's going to be a lot of disparate voices trying to seize the mantle of maga, or seize the mantle of conservatism, or seize the mantle. But all of those are, in some ways going to be a redefinition, because Donald Trump himself was a MAGA itself was a departure from traditional American conservatism as we've understood it since, say, Ronald Reagan through the Tea Party et Cetera. And so I think that it's a real moment of ideological uncertainty on the right. That's why people like Steve Bannon, Tucker Carlson, Nick Fuentes, in his own way, are trying to create a new sort of American right again, as I said, blending left wing economic populism and right wing social populism. Other people are trying to move the party maybe back toward that Reagan revolution, Tea Party sort of ethos that it's had for most of my life, certainly. And, you know, how is all that going to shake out? You know, that's what politics is all about. We're going to discover that through the midterms and certainly going into the next presidential. You know, right now, I think that the coalition that ascended Donald Trump to the presidency, you know, both in 2016 and 2020, no one is actually grabbing that mantle. Everyone's trying to redefine it in disparate ways. And that could mean that our chances as Republicans going into 2028 are not particularly good. If someone can't find a way to keep that coalition together, then I think that we're. We're looking at pretty strong headwinds.

[Piers Morgan]

How many times have you voted for Donald Trump?

[Jeremy Boreing]

2 out of 3 ain't bad.

[Piers Morgan]

When was the one you didn't?

[Jeremy Boreing]

I didn't vote for Donald Trump in 2016. I was pretty outspoken at the time in my belief that Donald Trump ascending would redefine conservatism in ways that I wasn't particularly comfortable with. You know, I would say that I was Never Trump in 2016, but once Trump was president, the idea of never Trump sort of lost its connection to reality for me. You can't say never Trump when Trump is. And so at that point, I started assessing Trump from a different framework. Not the what do I think the party should be and more what do I think the actual political battles in front of us actually are, practically speaking. And in that regard, like every president, of course, Donald Trump is a mixed bag. There's been things that I like and things that I don't. I'm certainly glad that Hillary Clinton wasn't president. I'm certainly glad that Kamala Harris wasn't president. I think Donald Trump in the last year has made some incredibly great moves in America's interest, particularly in foreign policy. I think other parts of the strategy are flawed. What's happened in Minneapolis? Listen, Americans voted in overwhelming numbers to see our border secured and to see a corrective in the form of Donald Trump for Joe Biden's open border policies. I think what's actually happening on the ground in Minneapolis cuts against that. I think it adds chaos instead of reducing chaos. And I think it's a distraction from the actual mission that's going to be true in any presidency. Donald Trump has a pretty remarkable way of pivoting when something isn't working. So I'm hoping that that's what we see in that particular situation and in a few others. Over the next few months, we're going.

[Piers Morgan]

To see a battle for the heart and soul of the conservative right in America. Could Ben Shapiro emerge as a candidate in 2028? I mean, is that a mad idea?

[Jeremy Boreing]

You know, in 2015, I thought, I'm going to run Ben Shapiro for president in 2020. Today, I think you probably couldn't get Ben Shapiro to run for office for any amount of money. You know, politics is, has always been a bloody sport. And I think in America right now, I think anybody who you have to be about half crazy to seek that office.

[Piers Morgan]

We've had a very civilized conversation here. As you know, a lot of conversation in the political arena, certainly, and media actually. But political arena in America is extremely incendiary. It's toxic, it's very tribal, it's hyper partisan. And we see social media fueling things like the Minneapolis well, I don't want.

[Jeremy Boreing]

To attack an injured man.

[Piers Morgan]

Very kind of you. But I think the point I was going to make was that if you look at, say, Minneapolis people, just what happened first to Renee Goode and then to the second victim there, you just saw people immediately run to their party line and then not be moved one inch from that, regardless of new video footage of new facts emerging or new anything. And then there's been a little bit of a sea change this week where even Donald Trump has realized if you send out your people to try and try and say that what the public have seen with their own eyes is actually not what they saw, they're not gonna buy it and they're gonna start turning on you. Do you feel like it's a little bit of a turning point this week? Cause I do. I sort of feel like this idea that you can say, look, I know you've all watched this, but that is not what happened. I think that game may be over.

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[Jeremy Boreing]

Well, I think it's an occupational hazard in politics and political media. You know, when, when, if your battered, if your pitcher dings a batter and the other team clears the bench, you have to clear your bench. That's what it means to be on a team. Even if after the game when we're all talking amongst ourselves, you go, eh, I'm pretty sure that our pitcher dinged that guy on purpose. In politics, that's also a natural reaction, that sort of team sport instinct. But it doesn't hold. You know, people, Donald Trump, people running the country are actually, despite all evidence to the contrary, are actually thoughtful people. They are people trying to do what's right. You know, Donald Trump is rightly trying to deal with the excesses of America's immigration policy, certainly over the four years preceding his second term, but really over the last 40 years. And no one wants to see someone, an unarmed man in captivity, be shot. You know, Alex Preddy shouldn't be dead today. I don't think that the Border Patrol agent who shot him woke up that morning wanting to shoot an unarmed man. I think, you know, it's a chaotic situation. And when you, when you have people interfering with law enforcement or trying to obstruct law enforcement, when you have really heightened emotional situations like that, very chaotic situations, and you have armed police on one side and in the case of Preddy, an armed citizen on the other side, you know, sometimes mistakes are going to happen, terrible things happen. And this seems, from everything I've seen to be an instance of that, a real tragedy. I think of it somewhat as distinct from the shooting of the woman a few weeks ago who, you know, I think much more arguably was a justified shooting, although still a very tragic one, much more arguably a justified shooting. And I think that one can support the actions of law enforcement broadly and still say, listen, this horrible thing happened and there have to be consequences when horrible things happen, even when they're, even when they're mistakes. But I don't think that the average conservative of good conscience in this country is happy to see an unarmed man shot. And I think Donald Trump will make, he will make corrections to the policy because his ultimate goal isn't, you know, bluster and chaos. His ultimate goal is an actual effective policy to fix the immigration problem in this country.

[Piers Morgan]

Yeah, I think that's right. Let's end by talking about the launch of the Pendragon cycle on the deli wire. It was years in the making. Let's take a look at a trailer and then we'll talk about it. All of this is an illusion, an echo of a voice that has died. And soon that echo will cease. So lots of things to like about this. Lashings of violence, death, sex, non wokery at its finest. Very, very high budget. I mean, I read that you spent seven figures on each episode, which is seriously high budget and it looks like it. It's very, it's exciting to watch. A lot of it's set in Britain, of course, which pleased me enormously. For those who not really aware of it yet, what's your short sales pitch for why they should watch it?

[Jeremy Boreing]

Yeah, well, listen, it's based on Arthurian myth. You know, I had the privilege one time of visiting the robing room at Parliament where your monarch prepares to open Parliament when he goes into the House of Lords. And I was struck by the fact that the room is surrounded on all sides by these beautiful wooden reliefs from Arthurian myth. And it occurred to me, well, isn't it an amazing thing that when the actual monarch of Britain is about to perform their constitutional duty, they first surround themselves by the sort of idyllic Platonic version of their role? That's what Arthur is. He's the Western king who should be. It's the most popular story in the Western canon that doesn't come directly from the Bible. It's enduring for a reason. And it's always been a story about who we are, about who Christian, about what Christianity is. And I think that as we drift away from those myths, as we tell them fewer and fewer times, or as we tell them in more and more secularized versions and abstract them away from the actual messages that they contained throughout the centuries that we've been telling them, we lose an important part of our identity. I'm against the destruction of the narrative structure on which our cultures have been built. I'm against, against pulling down statues of Thomas Jefferson and Christopher Columbus. On the one hand, I'm against saying that Churchill is the chief villain of World War II or that the moon landing didn't happen, or that 911 was an inside job. On the other, Those are, those are both physical and rhetorical examples of tearing down statues and destroying our sort of national identity. And I think that our national identity is really the immune system against tyranny. It's part of what, part of what has made the west successful, what's made Britain So successful. What's made America so successful over the last several hundred years is that our sense of ourself is virtuous. We don't always act in accordance with our sense of ourselves. We don't always behave virtuously, but we aspire to virtue. That's what the Arthurian legend is to me. I think Steven Law had captured it beautifully in his novels, which I read as a teenager. I've wanted to bring these to the screen every day since then. And when we had the opportunity to do it at Daily Wire, I thought that it was not only the fulfillment of, you know, sort of my desire over the last 30 years, but really a fulfillment of the mission of the company to create culture. But not just to create culture. To create culture that. That helps us to reconnect to that. To that identity that I think has been responsible for all the good that the west has done over the centuries.

[Piers Morgan]

Yeah, I completely agree. And that's what makes it so enjoyable. Just finally, what next year, what are you going to do? I mean, you've. You built a business worth $1 billion. You sailed off into the sunset. You've pulled a Lennon and McCartney with Ben, it did eventually make up. So there's hope, but, you know, what are you going to do?

[Candace Owens]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Boreing]

Well, I'm just going to do what I've always done. You know, I. I want to help preserve our culture in story form. I want to have a voice in national and international politics. I want to criticize culture, of course, but I want to put more of my efforts into creating culture than I do criticizing it. You know, I'll have to find new mechanisms to do that now outside of the Daily Wire. I think that I will. I will in some ways have to focus on my own mission as independent from the broader mission of a big network. Which is what, you know, I've always sort of been a bulldog in defense of. Of all of my hosts, even even Candace when she worked for me. And now I have to find a way to be a champion of my own perspective and my own values. And I'm looking forward to that freedom.

[Piers Morgan]

Well, Jeremy, great to have you back on Uncensored. Really enjoyed the conversation, and best of luck to you.

[Jeremy Boreing]

Thank you very much, Piers.

[Piers Morgan]

Piers Morgan Uncensored is proudly independent. The only boss around here is me. If you enjoy our show, we ask for only one simple thing. Hit subscribe on YouTube and follow Piers Morgan Uncensored on Spotify and Apple podcasts. And in return, we will continue our mission to inform irritate and entertain and we'll do it all for free. Independent, uncensored media has never been more critical, and we couldn't do it without you.