“Headed For TROUBLE…” Is The UK Being ‘Invaded’? Debate Feat Lowkey | Plus Gad Saad

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Headed For TROUBLE… Is The UK Being ‘Invaded’? Debate Feat Lowkey | Plus Gad Saad"

Piers Morgan Uncensored | Feb 20, 2026

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Overview

This episode of Piers Morgan Uncensored directly confronts the increasingly popular narrative—especially on the American right—that the UK has been ‘invaded’ by radical Muslims and has lost its cultural identity. Piers Morgan moderates a heated panel debate featuring Leila Cunningham (Reform UK London mayoral candidate), rapper and activist Lowkey, Andrew Gold (Heretics podcast host), Kehinde Andrews (Black Studies Professor), and Cenk Uygur (The Young Turks). Later, Dr. Gad Saad joins to discuss the cultural and statistical implications of Muslim immigration.

Main Theme:
Is mass Muslim immigration fundamentally changing or ‘invading’ British culture, or is this narrative driven by racism, propaganda, and misattributed blame for societal pressures?

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Narrative of ‘Muslim Invasion’ and Cultural Loss

• Leila Cunningham's Perspective ([03:58]):

  • Argues that mass immigration has rapidly changed communities, leading some to feel their way of life is unrecognizable.
  • Defends the right to preserve one’s culture:

    “It's not racist to want to preserve your way of life. It's not racist to want to preserve your values. It’s patriotism.” (05:00)

  • Claims host communities are pressured to adapt to new arrivals, not the other way around.

• Piers Morgan's Framing ([01:16], [05:07]):

  • Acknowledges these fears exist but critiques American commentary that the UK has ‘fallen’ to radical Islam as "a ridiculous overreach".

2. The Real Source of Disaffection: Economics, Not Immigration?

• Kehinde Andrews ([06:22], [09:54]):

  • Attributes public frustration to economic hardship from privatization, austerity, and inequality, not migration per se.
  • Asserts the problem has been scapegoated onto vulnerable migrant populations by media and political interests:

    “People have been disenfranchised and disaffection is real. However, they have been encouraged by individuals like Murdoch and others to divert all of that energy onto the shoulders of the most vulnerable.” (07:18)

• Suggests media, especially outlets with billionaire backers avoiding tax, fuel anti-immigrant sentiment for their own ends.

3. Immigration, Population Change & Social Impact

• Panel Debate ([10:59], [12:08]):

  • Andrew Gold accepts the diversity of some areas is positive but warns against complacency, fearing potential future societal shifts drawing comparisons to radicalization in other countries:

    “If we continue the way we're going, that probably will happen... Those who are not concerned about Islam simply don't understand what Islam is.” (12:08)

  • Raises concerns about integration, anti-Semitism, and cultural tension, citing Jewish families afraid to display their identity.

• Piers Morgan repeatedly references statistical realities, noting the vast majority of crime and sexual exploitation in the UK is committed by white Britons ([14:05]).

4. The Role of Propaganda and Distraction

• Cenk Uygur ([16:44], [34:34]):

  • Labels much of the anti-Muslim rhetoric as deliberate propaganda, often linked to deflecting from other scandals (e.g., the Epstein files, Israel-related news):

    “Next time you hear 'it's the Muslims' I guarantee you that it's Israeli propaganda trying to divert you from something that's in the news now.” (16:44)

  • Claims accusations of Muslim ‘takeover’ are a manipulated narrative to destabilize minority groups and distract from elite misconduct.

• Andrew Gold rebuffs these claims, arguing that blaming Israel or Jews shifts responsibility and is itself a form of conspiracy thinking ([22:52]):

  “All three of these guys have inexplicably blamed Israel. It has nothing to do with any of this. And to suggest that it's not antisemitic... it's just utter nonsense.”

5. Grooming Gangs, Statistics, and Media Narratives

• Panel Clash ([25:13], [41:57], [42:23]):

  • Leila Cunningham (a Muslim herself) insists state cover-ups of British Pakistani ‘grooming gangs’ happened to protect a Muslim bloc vote ([25:13]), and that these topics are suppressed by “politicians who are bowing down.”
  • Kehinde Andrews and others argue “grooming gangs” is a media term, not a legal category ([41:57]):

    “People are not prosecuted on the basis of grooming gangs. That's a media term.” (42:14)

  • Data cited by Piers Morgan ([14:05]) shows the vast majority of sexual crime is committed by white men.

• Cenk Uygur: Demands equal prosecution for all, regardless of ethnicity or status, but asserts media focus is skewed:

  “You want me to condemn them? Super easy. I condemn them 200%. ...But that’s not the issue. You're not bringing it up because you're concerned about victims. You're bringing it up so you can say the dirty Muslims did it.” (37:41)

6. Islamophobia, Integration, and Social Cohesion

• Cenk Uygur argues that anti-Muslim sentiment is inflamed not by facts but by shifting media focus according to geopolitical needs. He accuses much of mainstream Western media of being “pro-Israel” to a degree that clouds genuine debate ([16:44], [39:14]).

• Leila Cunningham and others note fear that British values are undermined because of political correctness and pressures not to criticize Islam or discuss integration.

• Kehinde Andrews explains the historical roots of Britain’s multicultural population, emphasizing immigration’s legacy from the British Empire:

  “We are here because you were there... Caribbean, Africa, Asia contribute to what Britain is anyway.” ([20:39])

7. Sharia Councils and Multiculturalism

• Piers Morgan raises concern over estimated 85 Sharia councils in the UK ([31:35]).
• Kehinde Andrews responds they have no legal standing; their existence is exaggerated by opponents to stoke fear.
• Points out that “white flight” explains ethnic clustering more than religious radicalism ([20:39], [33:14]).

8. Statistical Realities vs Cultural Fear

• Throughout, Piers Morgan and several panelists emphasize statistics to undercut the ‘invasion’ narrative:

  “Statistically, 83% of serious crime in the UK remains perpetrated today by white men.” ([53:48])

• The name “Muhammad” being the most popular baby name is debunked as evidence of ‘takeover’, instead reflecting naming practices in Muslim communities ([56:02]).

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Dr. Gad Saad Segment ([44:19] onward)

1. Cultural Change Analogies

• Dr. Saad makes a provocative analogy—comparing the societal impact of Islamic immigration to the way a disease like diabetes can develop gradually but with predictable future danger if left unchecked ([46:41]):

  “It's true...today Britain remains a non-Muslim country. But if we continue along the same patterns, will it improve or worsen?”

• Cites historical examples (e.g., Lebanon, Egypt) where demographic change led to rapid cultural and religious shifts, asserting Islam inherently seeks to dominate once numbers are sufficient ([47:54–51:00]).

2. Piers Morgan’s Counter

• Pushes back, noting most Muslims are peaceful, integrated, and “I just don’t see this hotbed of radicalism.” ([48:10])
• Emphasizes per capita and total numbers matter, and statistics can distort narratives:

  “The framing of this debate, when people try and say, 'well, you've been invaded…', I simply throw back statistics...” ([53:48])

3. Statistical Reasoning & “Tipping Points”

• Saad: Warns that growth in a minority, over time, can reach a “tipping point” beyond which societal change is rapid—again returning to his ‘disease’ analogy ([52:24], [61:52]).

• Acknowledges not all Muslims are violent, but claims historical precedent shows once a certain proportion is reached, things change.

• Piers Morgan:

  “I would have to see clear evidence that we were getting overrun by radical Muslims… I don’t see it.” ([63:14])

  • Expresses willingness to be alert to problems but not to invent them or succumb to fearmongering.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Leila Cunningham:

  “It's not racist to want to preserve your way of life. It's...patriotism.” (05:00)

• Kehinde Andrews:

  “We are here because you were there… Caribbean, Africa, Asia actually massively contribute to what Britain is anyway.” (20:39)

• Piers Morgan:

  “The vast majority of sex attacks in the UK are still perpetrated by white men, for example. That's just a reality in the UK.” (53:48)

• Cenk Uygur:

  “Next time you hear 'it's the Muslims' I guarantee you that it's Israeli propaganda trying to divert you…” (16:44)

• Andrew Gold:

  “If we continue the way we're going, that probably will happen... Those who are not concerned about Islam simply don't understand what Islam is.” (12:08)

• Dr. Gad Saad:

  “Once Islam enters, the goal is for you to Islamize the society...It takes a tipping point.” (47:54, 61:52)

• Panel Chaotic Exchange:

  “[Leila:] I gotta go. Bye, pig. Sorry, I have a rant you're doing.”

  “[Cenk:] Oh, no. You can't force a debate. No, you have to run away. This has not been pure Israel.” (35:43–35:55)

  “[Andrew:] I haven’t seen one tiny morsel of – ‘you know what, there are some bad issues here.’ Every single moment has been deflection. So no wonder Leila’s gone. She can’t be bothered talking to people with an IQ about seven.” (36:02)

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Key Timestamps

• 03:58 – Leila Cunningham on cultural change and integration
• 06:22 – Kehinde Andrews: economic roots of disaffection
• 10:59 – Piers Morgan on lived multiculture in London
• 12:08 – Andrew Gold: risks of growing Muslim population
• 14:05 – Piers Morgan: crime statistics debunk "Muslim crime wave"
• 16:44 – Cenk Uygur: propaganda and Israel linkage
• 20:39 – Loki (Kehinde Andrews): colonial legacy and demographics
• 25:13 – Leila Cunningham: “grooming gangs” and state cover-up
• 31:35 – Sharia councils and multiculturalism debate
• 41:57 – “Grooming gangs” not a legal category?
• 46:41 – Dr. Gad Saad interview begins: Islam, immigration, and cultural change
• 53:48 – Statistical arguments about crime and integration
• 61:52 – Dr. Gad Saad: historical trajectories and "tipping point" analogies
• 63:14 – Piers Morgan: What evidence would change his mind?

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Conclusion

This episode lays bare the polarization of debate around immigration, Islam, and shifting British identity. While some, like Leila Cunningham and Andrew Gold, warn of real or potential threats to British culture and safety, others—Kehinde Andrews and Cenk Uygur—see the entire debate as a vehicle for propaganda, deflection, or misplaced economic and political frustration. Piers Morgan stirs the pot while pointing out statistical realities that undercut the more hysterical narratives.

Dr. Gad Saad’s segment intensifies the conversation with analogies to societal ‘disease’ and warnings about demographic tipping points—countered sharply by Morgan’s insistence on judging present evidence rather than hypothetical futures.

Overall Tone:
Contentious, unfiltered, occasionally chaotic, but always focused on pressing the guests for clear positions and challenging prevailing myths.

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This summary covers only the main content. Timestamps listed above can be used for direct reference to the most crucial and heated moments within the episode.

Transcript

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[Piers Morgan]

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[Kehinde Andrews]

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[Piers Morgan]

There's a growing narrative that the UK's been invaded by radical Muslims and taken over.

[Kehinde Andrews]

These lies around, quote unquote grooming gangs, which is not even a criminal category of people from.

[Andrew Gold]

Did you say grooming gangs are not a criminal category?

[Kehinde Andrews]

It's not a criminal category.

[Piers Morgan]

Raping young girls, it's not a criminal category.

[Kehinde Andrews]

People are not prosecuted on the basis of grooming gangs. That's a media term.

[Piers Morgan]

Sorry, I can't let that go.

[Gad Saad]

It's a coincidence that in the middle

[Cenk Uygur]

of the Epstein files, all of a sudden this scandal comes up again. Oh, look at that squirrel. Look over there.

[Leila Cunningham]

Don't look at that Epstein file.

[Andrew Gold]

Excuse me.

[Leila Cunningham]

This guy is grooming gangs.

[Kehinde Andrews]

I would like to say you're picking

[Leila Cunningham]

on random stuff that have no relevance. I got to go. Bye, Piers.

[Piers Morgan]

Uncensored viewers will be well aware that many American politicians and commentators have a very bleak view of Britain. The uk, they say, has fallen. The nation of Shakespeare, the Beatles and the Magna Carta has become a nation of Sharia law, grooming gangs and censorship. Megyn Kelly articulated this view last week in her usual excoriating style on my show, this attitude.

[Leila Cunningham]

That's why you and Great Britain have lost your culture. You ceded your culture to a bunch of radical Muslims who came in and took over and now it's gone. We're not allowing that here. Whether it's Hispanic, whether it's Muslim, it's not happening in the United States of America. That's why President Trump was elected.

[Piers Morgan]

Now, whether you agree with her sentiment or not, and I don't, the fact is that many British people do agree with it. Nigel Farage's Reform UK is leading in national polls. Elon Musk, who says a civil war is inevitable in the UK and often boosts anti Muslim content on his platform X, is endorsing another new party which pledges to reverse migration. Leader of that party, Rupert Lowe, wants to ban burkas. Well, last week, Sir Jim Ratcliffe, the billionaire owner of Manchester United, said the UK has been colonized by immigrants. And just as it is in the us, there's been a social media fueled resurgence of casual racism. There was a big debate in the UK about whether Rishi Sunak is really English. Tommy Robinson's views have been mainstreamed and normalized. Robert Jenarick, one of Nigel Farage's new recruits to reform, was recorded complaining that he hadn't seen another white face while visiting an area where, where most of the residents are Muslim. All of these things were considered beyond the pale a few years ago. So what's behind it all? Has the UK really lost its culture to radical Islam? Here to debate this reform, UK's candidate for London mayor, Leila Cunningham, rapper and activist Loki Andrew Gold, host of the Heretics podcast, black studies professor and author of Nobody Can Give youe Freedom, Kehinde Andrews and and Cenk Yuga, the founder and host of the Young Turks, an outspoken critic of online Muslim bashing. Okay, let's start with Leila Cunningham, who is a candidate to be mayor of London. Welcome to Uncensored. We've not had you on before. This narrative, which a lot of American, American guests of mine, friends of mine, people I know, people I respect, there's a growing narrative that the UK's been invaded by radical Muslims and taken over and that people like me can barely leave our front door because of this radical invasion, which I think is a ridiculous overreach of what the real situation is. But what do you feel it is?

[Leila Cunningham]

So I think, I think it depends which part of the country you're in, which part of London you're in. And I think the real question people are asking themselves is who right now sets the cultural norms in certain parts of the the country and who adapts to whom? Should it be the host nation that adapts to those that arrive, or should it be the new arrivals that adapt? And people feel that as a host nation, we haven't asked new arrivals to adapt, we haven't asked them to assimilate or integrate. And mass immigration has caused rapid demographic change. And that has created certain people, you know, British people to feel that their way of life has changed in where they live. And, you know, some people say it's racist to notice this, and others say it's authoritarian to forbid discussion about this. But, you know, I say that it's not racist to want to preserve your way of life. It's not racist to want to preserve your values. It's patriotism. You know, you're like Hang on. There's so many people here. My town looks completely different. The shops are in a different language and it's just not. It's not the town I grew up in. And I want it to stop. I don't like it. I don't think there's anything wrong with pointing that out.

[Piers Morgan]

Loki. Welcome back to Uncensored. Sir Jim Ratcliffe, billionaire owner of Manchester United, notwithstanding the fact that I think he's a bit of a hypocrite because he himself is an immigrant to Monaco, where he resides for tax reasons, and also has a team in Manchester United where the the majority of their starting 11 are economic migrants to the UK. So there's hypocrisy there. And I didn't like his comments about Britain being colonized by immigrants. I thought they were crass and inflammatory. But there were some points he was making notwithstanding, again, that he got some of his facts wrong. But there has been a very large increase in the UK population from the turn of the century to now, you know, nearly 20 million more people. That has had an inevitable impact on adding huge pressure to our infrastructure and public services. That is unquestionable. And there's been obviously a massive influx of immigrants to the UK in that time as well. So it's understandable that some people are putting all this together and blaming the influx of millions of migrants to the uk. What is your pushback to the people that make that argument?

[Kehinde Andrews]

There are three points to take into account here, Piers. Number one, people have been disaffected by deindustrialization, by the privatization of key state assets and state functions. They know that their services have essentially been siphoned off to private interest, but they are disaffected by that and then misdirected into diagnosing what exactly the problem is. And on top of that, there is the 20 years of war on terror, which in terms of the essentially billionaire tax haven Epstein class, has necessitated propaganda against Muslims on an industrial scale. And unfortunately, one of the key individuals in that has been Rupert Murdoch, who himself, according to reports, despite generating billions from the UK, went 11 years without paying corporate tax. But you have to also look further at Christopher Harborne, the key funder of Reform uk, somebody with multiple business interests in the Cayman Islands, in the tax havens of the Channel Islands and others. And what about Jeremy Hosking, another individual that funds Reform UK who has business interests? Marathon Asset Management, along with Harborne, is of course based in Jersey, which is a tax haven. When you look at who profits from the railways in this country, they are largely companies based in either other countries or tax havens. So people have been disenfranchised and disaffection is real. However, they have been encouraged by individuals like Murdoch and others to divert all of that energy onto the shoulders of the Most vulnerable. Only 0.18% of this country are refugees. If they do have recourse to public funds, which over a million people don't, it's 37 pounds, 50 per week. Who is a bigger burden on the people of this country? Is it a person sitting next to you in the doctor's surgery whose name you can't pronounce, whose borders were were defined in the lifetime of your grandparents? Or is it the person selling you the newspapers who is siphoning off the money into a tax haven elsewhere? That is ultimately who is pushing this complete propaganda and fact manipulation? This is not a real reflection of events, as you yourself.

[Piers Morgan]

Okay, but my response to that would be. I'm not questioning the validity of your criticism of billionaires. That's fine, but it's not really going to the heart of what my question was, which was whether Jim Radcliffe, when he said that this country has had an unsustainable influx of migrants coming into the country both legally and illegally, which has made the population massively higher, put huge burden onto our public services, but also led to a lot of, I would say, unrest in parts of Britain where there is a sense that the culture of individual towns or cities has been completely changed by the influx of migrants. And, you know, all these things can be true at the same time. So in relation, just before I move to the rest of the panel, in relation to those points that he made, would you concede that we've allowed too many people to come in?

[Kehinde Andrews]

Only 1% of the land in this country is used for house building. There is about one in every 65 people in London who is homeless. You're right, there is a strain on public services, and that's because austerity, which has been a bipartisan orthodoxy, a necropolitical bipartisan orthodoxy, is believed to have led to the deaths, the preventable deaths of at least 130,000 people. That's according to Danny Dorling or of Oxford University. So, yes, there's a strain on public services, but it is certainly not because of people getting 37 pounds, 50 per week or people that have no recourse to public funds. It is because there has been a death by a thousand cuts mentality practiced towards public services. And people have that perception because they've Been propagandized with it on a daily basis by a media which is almost pogrom pushing. To be honest with you, it's a miracle that more people haven't been attacked and harmed in the streets with the level of propaganda that people are subject to in this country.

[Piers Morgan]

Okay, Andrew Gold. You know, I live in West London in an area which has a lot of rich people, a lot of very poor people. And I walk up and down my local high street. It's incredibly multicultural. Pretty much every store, every, like hairdressers or dry cleaners or restaurant, whatever, even is manned and owned and staffed by people from all over the world. It's an extraordinary place to live, and I love it. I don't recognize the depiction of the part of London I'm in as being overrun by radical Muslims. In fact, the opposite. Now, I accept there are parts of the country which are predominantly Muslim in terms of population, demographic, and that people who may live there who are not Muslim feel like. Like things have changed very fast and not necessarily in the way they feel comfortable with. I accept I don't necessarily live in one of those places. But this idea that we've been overrun by radical Muslims, as Megyn Kelly put it, I do think is a massively wild exaggeration that is not, to me, bearing a relevance to reality.

[Andrew Gold]

No, I don't know if we've been overrun by radical Muslims. That might be a bit strong. If we continue the way we're going, that probably will happen. I mean, we just have to look at historical precedent of what happened in Iran, Afghanistan, Lebanon. Once it starts, it's unlikely to stop. I think those who are not concerned about Islam simply don't understand what Islam is. They don't understand extreme religion. I grew up. I'm a Jewish person. I grew up, and I know what the Hasidic Jewish community are like. I know that they are in many cases a law unto themselves, but they're a tiny, tiny proportion of the country. If there were 5 or 6 million of them and they were having more and more children, bringing more and more people into this country, I think we'd all have a huge problem with that. Now, when these people come into this country and have an entirely different culture to our own, and then they are encouraged not to adopt ours, but in the name of multiculturalism, to celebrate their own, then they're going to bring their culture with them. And that means just like in the 50 to 55 countries that are Islamic, there is no homosexuality. Maybe in one or two. It's kind of allowed, but it's frowned upon. Women are treated as second class citizens. Loki made the point about it being a miracle that more Muslims aren't attacked on the streets. Well, we are seeing Jews attacked on the streets day after day. We even had a Little Britain guy was just screamed out on the street. That is literally happening day after day after day. We get people from places like Pakistan, we get tens and tens of thousands from Pakistan. According to Pew Research, the percentage of people in Pakistan who dislike Jews or have unfavorable views of Jews is 99%. So Jewish families that I know, they take down any identifying features that show they're Jewish. That cannot be. That is not the Britain that I grew up in. That is not the Britain of the 90s and the 80s. This is a. We're headed for trouble right now. And unless we stop this now, unless people start taking it seriously, then things are going to get progressively worse and people are going to have to leave, not just this country, but Europe.

[Piers Morgan]

Well, let's go to Chen Hugo's across the pond. I mean, Chen. You know, it's been very striking to me that Elon Musk just in recent months has posted on X Civil War in Britain is inevitable has had 58 million views. When reposting a graph showing foreign national sex crime arrest rates, Musk commented, the rape of Britain. Remember to drop a white feather for the cowards who failed to stop this. Again, if the current British government is not on the side of the people of Britain, then are they by definition traitors and so on and so on. Very highly charged inflammatory language. And again, you know a lot of mythology about this. For example, you know, Musk is right to say the grooming gang scandal in the UK was an absolute disgrace, particularly in relation to Rotherham and Telford where thousands of predominantly young white English girls were sexually abused and raped by largely in these particular scandals, British, Pakistani, Muslim men. That's undeniable. But if you actually look at the wider percentage in terms of the whole country, you would find according to the police and the Crown Prosecution Service, that if you look at 2024, for example, for all serious indictable offenses, including rape, 83% were committed by white people, 7% by black people, 6% by Asians. The majority of child exploitation sexual exploitation suspects, 83% and victims, 85% were white. Data from 2024 indicated that only 3.9% of group based abusers were of Pakistani heritage, 85% were white. Now, statistics can tell myriad stories, but I think the point I would make in, in telling you those figures is that if you listen to some people across the pond, there's a sense that, you know, all the sexual abuse in the country is being perpetrated by Pakistani Muslim men. That's simply not true. We've had some disgusting scandals which were terribly badly handled and covered up by governments and authorities who thought it was too racially incendiary to reveal who was perpetrating them. But that doesn't mean that Britain is awash with these people perpetrating these crimes on a gigantic scale across the country. So there's a lot going on here. But my overriding sense, living mostly in the uk, is that this characterization is false. What do you make of it?

[Cenk Uygur]

Yeah, so look, almost all of our corporate media pundits that are in the know, establishment media, our politicians, et cetera, do propaganda and this is propaganda. Now let me explain why we they say, oh my God, we might have a Muslim take over of our countries. Israel's already taken over all of our governments. And it's not just Israel. Big pharma, to Loki's point, all the donor class, the Epstein class, they've all taken over our governments. They've certainly taken over the American government, the British government. The Irish seem to be free, thank God for that. And then they go, it's the Muslims. I mean, it's almost comical. It's comical. And then they. We're talking about, wait, grooming, gangs going after kids or whatever. Oh, that comes out just as everyone's talking about the Epstein files and how a bunch of pro Israeli figures raped American girls. Oh, it's the Muslims, it's the Muslims. So next time you hear it's the Muslims, I guarantee you that it's Israeli propaganda trying to divert you from something that's in the news now. And everything is constantly subverted and inverted, Right? So, oh, like Israel is a right to exist. Wait, Palestinians don't. Palestine doesn't exist. Israel does exist. Everything in our media is utter propaganda on behalf of Israel. So I warn you about all of these topics is to try to drive up hatred and against Muslims, against immigrants. Now if you're in Europe to address some of the points here and you say, hey, you know what I want? Germany just for the Germans or the French just for the French? I'm not German or French. That's your business, okay? But I'm an American. And in America we believe in equality. That's the core thesis of this country. And the country is made up of almost nothing but immigrants. Jewish immigrants, Muslim immigrants, Italian, Irish, and we made, we become the number one country in the world because of that diversity and that equality. And the pro Israel forces that control our government hate that. They're like, no, don't let any more Muslims in. And if they criticize Israel, arrest them, take away their liberties. Now they got a religious liberty commission that's taking away religious liberty. If you criticize Israel, I mean it is over the top absurd. And if you say, hey, wait, I'm concerned about a lot of Muslims in Britain, okay, maybe I believe you if that seems to be your concern. But wait a minute, they say the same thing about America and there's barely any Muslims in America. So that's how you could tell it's propaganda because it's not really related to the facts. It's related to news events around Israel. Whenever the Israel is in the news in a bad way, you'll see a whole heap of people attacking Muslims in uk, US and everywhere else as if they are the real problem. Muslims in the west have almost no power. People who support Israel have nearly infinite power. The these are obvious facts.

[Piers Morgan]

Okay, Kehinde, Andrews, a lot to unpack there from Cenk, and I'll come back to you later in a moment because you are a practicing Muslim, which is interesting given your perspective on this. But Kehinde, you know, in answer to Cenk's point, I would make this point, and I say this without any comment about it other than it's just a statistical fact. Britain has pretty much the same number of Muslims as the United States despite having a population of 67, 68 million to America's 340 million. So we have a significantly higher percentage of the population is Muslim and is rising pretty rapidly. Actually, there's no doubting the statistical reality of that. Is that a cause for pause, for concern? You know, would you be comfortable if Britain became, for example, a majority Muslim country in 40, 50 years time? Do you understand why, you know, white Christians in Britain are fearful of that prospect because they feel it's going against what the inherent culture of the country is?

[Loki Andrew Gold]

No, I mean, I think we have to really understand the history here. Why does Britain have a large Muslim population? As we said, countries like Pakistan which were part of the British Empire. One of the biggest problems we have in this discussion is that actually Britain was never this little island. Britain was the largest empire that's ever existed in the entire world. And we are here because you were there. This is why Pakistani people come here. This is why there's a large Muslim population. So when you talk about what Britain is. The fact is the Caribbean, Africa, Asia actually massively contribute to what Britain is anyway. So it's frankly ahistorical to just say, well look, they're coming in with these different values because I promise you, these values have been part of the nation since before people migrated here. I would also say if you actually look at the evidence, I mean, it is frankly ridiculous to suggest that Britain is going to be majority Muslim at any point. That is not going to happen. What you actually find is you have high levels of concentration of minorities in particular areas. And the reason why areas, I mean, I live in Birmingham, the place where Robert Jenrick came around and said, oh, there's so many Muslims. Actually most of the people in Handsworth are not Muslim. It's massively diverse. You find very few areas in the United kingdom which are 100% Muslim. The only areas in fact you'll find in the United Kingdom which have more than 100,000 people and up one ethnic group is white British people because most of the country is white British people. The reason that areas like Handsworth and inner cities are so diverse is something called white flight. When I moved into my neighborhood, there were loads of white people. When we move in, they move out. And then we all, we all live in concentrated, mostly concentrated properties in the cities. And then people complain about how the country changed. It's completely ridiculous, fabricated, nonsensical and it is all just driven by, like Loki said, this is about the actual reason you can't get a doctor's appointment is because they changed the tax rules so that billionaires are taking all your money. There have been lots of immigration over the last 20 years, but the GDP has gone up because of that immigration. We have more money in the country because of immigration. The problem is the mosques, the people like that, the Tim Ratcliffe's, the Farajs, you probably peers as well, are benefiting from these tax loopholes, which means that now the things are underfunded. Complete nonsense. The whole point of this is to misdirect from the fact that it's actually the rich. Maybe Israel in some extent, but certainly the rich are actually taking. And you just blame it on immigrants.

[Piers Morgan]

Well, Andrew Gold, you're laughing there. Why are you laughing?

[Andrew Gold]

Yeah, because all three people, we're talking about immigration and Islam in the United Kingdom, which is a very serious issue. And all three of these guys have inexplicably blamed Israel. It has nothing to do with any of this. And to suggest that it's not anti Semitic. I don't like to go around throwing anti Semitic. I don't like the whole victim game. But it's the one tiny country in the world that's Jewish. And they're saying the reason that we're thinking about this is because of Israel. Meanwhile, the left, I'm sorry, the right, are constantly saying to us that it's Israel and the Jews who are bringing the Muslims in. So the Jews are simultaneously bringing all the Muslims in because we love multiculturalism so much. And at the same time, it's all of us who are the ones who are blaming them. It's just utter nonsense.

[Loki Andrew Gold]

These people, Israel and Jews.

[Andrew Gold]

Okay, sleep.

[Leila Cunningham]

Yeah, no, it is complete. Not every peers.

[Kehinde Andrews]

Yes, I would like to respond.

[Piers Morgan]

Leila. Okay, go ahead.

[Leila Cunningham]

Yeah, Honestly, listening to some of your panel is. Makes me. It's so infuriating. Calling concerns about immigration propaganda is really disrespectful to the ordinary person. It assumes that they can't think for themselves. It assumes that, you know, if only the approved narrative is allowed, people live with the consequences every day of mass migration. Housing, wages, schools. That's not propaganda.

[Kehinde Andrews]

I have a response.

[Leila Cunningham]

Can you hear me?

[Piers Morgan]

Sorry,

[Leila Cunningham]

yeah, hello.

[Cenk Uygur]

No, it is propaganda.

[Piers Morgan]

Yeah, we can hear you later. Keep going. Yeah, I can't believe it.

[Leila Cunningham]

No, no, hang on. Can I just finish? The British public are not sheep. You know, they don't need permission from commentators like the ones on your panel to talk about what's happening in their country. And the reason why we have massive demographic change in certain parts of the country is because right now, refugees, asylum seekers, when their claim gets deemed approved, become refugees. And they are put to the top of the housing list because they are deemed most in need. And they are put in certain parts of the country in massive amounts of numbers. And when you do have immigration in massive amounts of numbers, they don't integrate, they tend to dominate. And that's what you've seen. And to say that it's due to propaganda is, frankly, really insulting. And I don't know, one of your guests said that, you know, oh, have I insulted you? What's the big deal about the grooming gang? Yeah, you have actually.

[Cenk Uygur]

24, seven. Yeah, you have actually catch feelings over,

[Leila Cunningham]

well, I am a Muslim. I am a Muslim and I'm insulted.

[Kehinde Andrews]

I would like to respond to Leila.

[Leila Cunningham]

So hang on, hang on. I am a Muslim and I'm insulted. I'll tell you what. And you know, the difference between the grooming gangs and everything else, and it might have a relation to Epstein, is that, yes, we do have White people committing grooming and sexual assault. The difference is, is that the state overlooked it. The difference is, is that these girls were groomed right in front of social services. They were picked up from schools, counselors knew, the police knew and they were failed by the state. The COVID up is just as big as the abuse that happens. And that is because we have politicians who are bowing down to a block Muslim vote. And the sooner we recognize that, the sooner we can deal with an issue. Right now we have government that are trying.

[Cenk Uygur]

Rapists have gotten away with it because they are super powerful. And those same child rapists are not trying to blame Muslims.

[Piers Morgan]

Okay?

[Cenk Uygur]

To distract you. Because not one of them is held accountable.

[Piers Morgan]

Okay, hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on. Look, just to be clear. Hang on, hang on, hang on. Everybody. Time out, time out for a moment. Time out. Cenk, I wanna make a point is that it's actually disingenuous to say that the grooming gang scandal is in any way connected to Israel or what's happened in the last few years. This is a scandal that's been 20 years.

[Cenk Uygur]

Not 1% disingenuous. Almost every anti Muslim propaganda is driven by Israel.

[Piers Morgan]

Wait a minute.

[Cenk Uygur]

Allies in American media and politics.

[Piers Morgan]

Cenk, we're talking about a scandal that's 20 years old. And the real scandal was not just the appalling abuse of these girls by these predominantly British Pakistani Muslim men, but it was in various towns. But also the COVID up by the establishment. Hang on, Chenk, hang on. I'm finishing my point. But also the COVID up by the establishment from bottom up to the top. Because people were worried about saying who was perpetrating the crimes for fear that it would cause racial hatred towards the British Pakistani community. Which was in itself a scandal. But it had nothing to do with an Israeli lobby. It's been going on for 20 years.

[Kehinde Andrews]

Okay, can I speak Piers?

[Cenk Uygur]

Yeah.

[Kehinde Andrews]

So listen, sorry, I have a point.

[Cenk Uygur]

You're telling me that it's a coincidence. It's a coincidence that in the middle of the Epstein files they. That all of a sudden this scandal comes up again. Oh, look at that squirrel. Look over there.

[Leila Cunningham]

Don't look at that.

[Piers Morgan]

Excuse me.

[Leila Cunningham]

This guy.

[Cenk Uygur]

Look at the child rape, grooming gangs.

[Kehinde Andrews]

I would like to say. I would like, I would like to say. I would like to say. I would like to say

[Cenk Uygur]

Muslims have more power than pro Israel people in the UK or the US Because I'd love for you to make that point because that's a hilarious. The people who have more power not.

[Piers Morgan]

Let me Bring in.

[Cenk Uygur]

Prosecuted. Not one of them.

[Piers Morgan]

Let me. Well, they should be. Yeah, let me bring in Loki. Loki, your response? Okay, Loki.

[Kehinde Andrews]

The point here is that Reform UK is funded by Christopher Harborne, who is a resident of Thailand and has an alternative name that he uses. Reform UK is also funded by Jeremy Hoskin, who is a resident of Ireland. Both of them have business interests all over tax havens. Why are they unpatriotic? That is insulting to the people of the this country. The second point, to address what was mentioned before. There's a book by the name of the Islamophobia industry Social Movements from above. There's a chapter in it by Sarah Marusek. She analyzed the Islamophobia industry, which includes a plethora of things.

[Leila Cunningham]

Listen, can I just stop you there?

[Kehinde Andrews]

Listen, I haven't interrupt you. I haven't finished making my point. Please allow me to.

[Leila Cunningham]

Everyone else did.

[Kehinde Andrews]

Please allow me to finish.

[Leila Cunningham]

Everyone else did. I don't need to hear about a book.

[Kehinde Andrews]

Please allow me to finish.

[Leila Cunningham]

Propaganda.

[Kehinde Andrews]

75% of the organizations that fund the Islamophobia industry also fund the building of illegal Israeli settlements in violation of the fourth Geneva Convention. That is a material historical.

[Leila Cunningham]

What are you talking about?

[Piers Morgan]

We have.

[Leila Cunningham]

We have thousands of British white girls who were tortured and raped.

[Kehinde Andrews]

1 in 3 victims. Child sexual exploits, exploitation. In this country.

[Leila Cunningham]

Because they're interrupting now are male.

[Kehinde Andrews]

The majority of those carrying out sexual crimes in this country.

[Leila Cunningham]

I'm going to have to.

[Kehinde Andrews]

In this country. That is a myth by you and others like you.

[Piers Morgan]

Let Leila finish her point, please.

[Leila Cunningham]

Look, I am a Muslim, right? And I do not appreciate. We have a labor government that's trying to push Islamophobia laws, trying to criticize and criminalize any criticism of Islam. That is not what Britain's about. Britain is about freedom of speech and the freedom to criticize everything. We have Pakistani Muslim rape gangs that were ignored to protect a Muslim bloc vote. We do have Islamic radical terrorism in this country. No other kind of terrorism. And I have to speak out because I recognize that there are millions of Muslims like me who don't feel that way. We don't associate themselves. But to pretend that it is not happening in this country is actually a danger to this country.

[Kehinde Andrews]

We have to. Chris Hunter, who are convicted according to Chris Hunter.

[Leila Cunningham]

Who are convicted. Who are convicted. Can you just be quiet for a second? For Christ. We have a convicted terror bomb maker from the Muslim Brotherhood from Egypt who arrived illegally on a boat and that was granted asylum, put in a hotel in London at the taxpayers Expense. There is something fundamentally wrong with the way we discuss radical Islam in this country. And I agree it's not taking over the country. Of course not. But it does represent a national threat. And Muslims in general, the majority of them come here to integrate and assimilate, and they are like me. But there are some that come to Britain and expect the country to change for them. And if it doesn't change for them, we get people like those on your panel calling it racist. There's nothing racist about that. It's called patriotism.

[Piers Morgan]

Yeah.

[Leila Cunningham]

And I would say I have to recognize it to a British country.

[Piers Morgan]

Okay, let me. Okay, let me bring in. Let me bring in Kehinde. Let me bring in. Hang on. Let me bring in. Let me bring in Kehinde.

[Cenk Uygur]

Cheng.

[Piers Morgan]

I'll come back to you. I'll come back to Cheng. I want to bring in Kehinde Andrews there. You know, I've traveled a lot to the Middle East. I've been to Saudi Arabia a few times in the last year, to Qatar several times to Dubai and other places. One thing's for sure, if anyone tried to go over there and instill their culture and their cultural values or their laws in a country like that, they would be very quickly dealt with. And I think what people feel here is, for example, does it concern you that there are estimated to be 85 Sharia councils in. In the UK that manage disputes between Muslims and ensure Islamic law is being upheld? Now, they have no legal force under UK law. They have a lot of influence, but they have a lot of influence. Here's my question. This is for Kehinde. This is for Kehinde. Hang on. Loki, Kehinde, Loki, I'll come back to you. Everyone must get a chance to speak. So, Kehinde, my question is, should we tolerate that? If we genuinely believe in having an inclusive, multicultural society, is it right that we tolerate. Because many people feel very uncomfortable about it. Should we tolerate the existence of Sharia councils?

[Loki Andrew Gold]

So I think the question misses a massive point. How can the uk, the largest empire in history, remember, talk about going to other countries and instilling your values? I mean, it's completely ridiculous, completely nonsensical. British expats are probably the worst. Going to places and colonizing them and expect them to be. Just to be 100%.

[Piers Morgan]

Let him finish his point. Please let me finish. Let him finish his point.

[Loki Andrew Gold]

Secondly, the idea, again, the idea that there are. There's a minority. Muslims are a minority in this country, and they're in particular areas. And because of white Flight. Like I said, this is why we tend to be congregated in the same area. What does multiculturalism say? It just says that you should respect people's cultures and values. As you said, there are 85 Sharia councils, they have no basis in law. So if a group wants to come together and say, actually, can we manage things internally, that is fine as long as they're not breaking the law. And there's no evidence that any of these Sharia councils are breaking the law. It's a confected made up nonsense that the idea that Muslims are incompatible with the west, this goes back thousands of years by the way, and it is a deeply racist idea that somehow suggests that Muslims are incompatible. And if the issue actually was a bad, check it, segregation.

[Leila Cunningham]

I'm not a Muslim myself.

[Piers Morgan]

Exactly.

[Loki Andrew Gold]

And I've just heard you. And I've just heard you somehow. And I've just heard you say, look, there are bad Muslims, there are bad people who are Muslim, there are bad

[Leila Cunningham]

people who are Christian. And it's got nothing to do with

[Loki Andrew Gold]

the idea, the idea that you would be then saying, well, let's, let's stop, let's stop, let's stop. How could a Muslim, how could a Muslim straightforwardly actually come on and say we don't need laws against Islamophobia and we know that Islamophobia is a huge problem with hate crimes, etc. Etc. Etc. That's nonsensical and like a hate crime already.

[Leila Cunningham]

You just said there is legislation.

[Loki Andrew Gold]

Can I ask a question? We make all this issue about Muslim areas, Muslim A, they don't exist. Like I said, they're actually very diverse. If it's actually about segregation and about one group people living together in the uk, the only group people that is is white middle class people who do it all the time. They separate themselves off. They go to the best colleges, they go to the best schools, they live in the. Why isn't it a problem when we have so many parts of this country which are isolated with white middle class

[Leila Cunningham]

people who have their own values and

[Loki Andrew Gold]

it keeps everybody out, why is that not a problem? Why is somehow Muslims a problem? Why would I ask?

[Leila Cunningham]

I'm not going to sit here, I'm not going to sit here and argue with this guy who has no idea what he's talking about. I'm Muslim, I know millions of Muslims like me and we do not like radical Muslims coming in here and getting that. Maybe he should file.

[Kehinde Andrews]

Nick Candy is in the Epstein files. Did he know Ghislaine Maxwell? What's your response?

[Piers Morgan]

And.

[Leila Cunningham]

And has he done any wrongdoing?

[Kehinde Andrews]

And what's your response?

[Leila Cunningham]

And has he done any wrongdoing?

[Kehinde Andrews]

The question is, you met him for

[Leila Cunningham]

a business deal, right? We're not talking about number. We're not talking about Nick Candy. We're talking about how is that related?

[Cenk Uygur]

Of course.

[Kehinde Andrews]

Donated a million.

[Leila Cunningham]

So you're picking on random stuff that have no relevance. I gotta go. Bye, pig. Sorry, I have a rant you're doing.

[Cenk Uygur]

Oh, no. You can't force a debate. No, you have to run away. This has not been pure Israel.

[Piers Morgan]

To be fair.

[Andrew Gold]

Hang on, hang on.

[Cenk Uygur]

Can I solve it?

[Andrew Gold]

To be fair.

[Piers Morgan]

Can I solve it?

[Cenk Uygur]

Can I solve it?

[Andrew Gold]

It's unbelievable, the answers you guys have been giving, because it's just been all deflection every single time. But what about Epstein? What about Nick Candy? That's exactly what this entire story is. Listen, but I'm a Jew, right? And I've already sat here, and I can say there are huge problems that I find in the Hasidic Jewish community. Why can't you guys. When we talk about the grooming gangs, when we talk about Islamism. Not just in the uk, the way it's spread across the Middle east and Europe, the things that are going on in Iran right now, and I haven't seen one tiny morsel of. You know what? There are some bad issues here. Every single moment has been deflection. So no wonder Leila's gone. She can't be bothered talking to people with an IQ about seven.

[Kehinde Andrews]

You have the IQ of this desk.

[Cenk Uygur]

Oh, yeah.

[Gad Saad]

Oh, yeah.

[Cenk Uygur]

I know, I know.

[Piers Morgan]

You guys, we'll talk about something other

[Andrew Gold]

than Epstein then, because you're being asked about zooming.

[Cenk Uygur]

All right, hold on. Something else. Let me solve it. Let me. Let me address it. Let me address it.

[Andrew Gold]

Okay, can you address it? Cenk, before you do, let me just ask, can you address it?

[Cenk Uygur]

Can you shut up and let me address it?

[Andrew Gold]

Can you address it without mentioning Israel? Or can you address grooming guy?

[Cenk Uygur]

No, because that's the whole reason we're having this conversation. Because your Israeli buddies wanted a distraction from the Epstein files. That's why they threw this garbage into the media.

[Andrew Gold]

So now let me just explain to you. Pierce just explained to you that that's up.

[Cenk Uygur]

And let me address it. You're asking me a question and I'll answer it. You're asking me a question and I'll answer it. This is super easy. Why don't you arrest everyone who's committed a crime? So if Pakistani Grooming gangs exist, and I'm sure they do, then arrest them. Where's the question?

[Andrew Gold]

But they didn't.

[Cenk Uygur]

Shut up and let me. If there's people. Shut up and let me finish. So if there's a white gang of people who are raping people, arrest them. If there's a bunch of super powerful people who are raping American girls, arrest them. This is all super simple, but when we go to arrest anyone, demand to arrest anyone in the Epstein files, they go, oh, the Muslims, the raping. It's the Muslim. It's all the Muslims. Everybody hate the Muslims. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's an obvious diversion. That's why we're bringing up Israel in the Epstein files. Because in the midst of the biggest story that there has been maybe in my lifetime, all of a sudden the grooming gangs pop back up. You want me to condemn them? Super easy. I condemn them. I condemn them 200%. I hope they're in prison. I hope they never get out of prison. But that's not the issue. You're not bringing it up because you're concerned about victims. You're bringing it up so you can say the dirty Muslims did it. Now, let me explain something to you, okay? If we had the same exact conversation, but you took out the word Muslim and you put in the word Jewish or Jewish, and we had a whole debate about should we ban the Jews? Are the Jews a problem in the uk? Do the Jews have the wrong kind of culture? We would all be canceled. We'd all have our careers ruined. None of us would ever work in media again. But here we are having a conversation of is the problem the Muslims and should we ban the Muslims? And the Muslims have the wrong culture? And the minute you ask is what

[Andrew Gold]

you do and you're doing fine.

[Cenk Uygur]

These guys have literally bought our government. They have. They've Contributed.

[Piers Morgan]

Contributed.

[Cenk Uygur]

Bribe 94% of Congress. And you're telling me that the pro Israel forces don't have any power. The real problem is Muslims who have like almost no money or no power in the UK

[Piers Morgan]

anymore.

[Gad Saad]

So

[Cenk Uygur]

conversation is propaganda by Israel to distract you from the Epstein files.

[Piers Morgan]

Okay, okay, okay, Andrew, I want to hear Andrew's. I want to hear Andrew's response to that, please, Andrew.

[Andrew Gold]

Well, it's just absolutely nuts. You've been going on for half an hour there, just about, oh, you can't say anything about the Jews or whatever. If there were 5 million Jews in the UK now there's actually about 200,000. If there were 5 or 6 million Jews in the UK if there was a kind of a grooming gang thing involved with the Jews, I would be the first person and most Jews would be as well. The idea that also that there's this idea of Muslims or the poorest, this reverse racism that you're doing the whole time, right? There were 2 billion Muslims worldwide. They are in some of the richest countries in the world, and they are some of the most powerful people in the world. Qatari influence, you might say about Israel. I don't know. Maybe you're right, because I can admit that people who are more on my side might be doing nefarious things. I don't know. You seem to have a total blind spot about Muslim power in the world. There's also all of these, you know, the Church of England, all of these different organizations, these religious organizations have different kinds of power that they assert in the world. Okay? And we need to look at all of them. I am happy to look at any Jewish ones. I'm happy to look at all the other ones. The fact is there is huge Qatari influence in American universities and British universities. And you don't want to know this. And you keep portraying Muslims as these impoverished little types.

[Kehinde Andrews]

There are many impoverished nations, Andrew. You've defended Israel relentlessly over the genocide in Gaza that has consisted of sexual crime at insane levels. The raping.

[Andrew Gold]

That's not true, though.

[Kehinde Andrews]

Palestinian hospital in Israeli military. So that's not true. Okay, so you don't actually do what you say you do, which is you call out everyone.

[Andrew Gold]

But you're a conspiracy theorist. But you're a conspiracy theorist. Because I don't know what to do with all of these conspiracies. All of your arguments. All of your arguments are this person's link in this conversation.

[Kehinde Andrews]

Aside from your feelings, what have you cited? Give me some documents. Why not read Dr. Ella Cobain and what she's written about these lies around, quote, unquote, grooming gangs, which is not even a criminal category. That has. Look at who the majority of people. Ella Cobain. Dr. Ella Cobain. Read her writings and understand these things rather than working.

[Andrew Gold]

Did you say Queen and gangs are not a criminal category?

[Piers Morgan]

True.

[Kehinde Andrews]

It's not a criminal category.

[Loki Andrew Gold]

It's not.

[Kehinde Andrews]

It is not a criminal category.

[Loki Andrew Gold]

You mentioned the Church.

[Piers Morgan]

It's not a criminal category.

[Loki Andrew Gold]

Hang on a second. Can I just point this category?

[Kehinde Andrews]

People are not prosecuted on the basis of grooming gangs. That's a media term which was used to promote this Islamophobic idea of the world.

[Piers Morgan]

Sorry, I can't let that go. Sorry, just. Just to be clear, just to be clear, the grooming gangs was a criminal activity involving a large number, a large number of predominant activities.

[Kehinde Andrews]

Obviously it's a criminal activity.

[Piers Morgan]

The rape and abuse of thousands of young, largely white English girls by a group of largely British, Pakistani, Muslim men in places like Rotherham and Telford was absolutely a criminal activity, which is why all the perpetrators have.

[Kehinde Andrews]

Now, I didn't say there wasn't a criminal activity. Piers, listen to what I'm saying and then interpret it. I am saying that by law a criminal category does not exist for the crime of grooming gangs. Read Dr. Ella Cobain's writing.

[Piers Morgan]

Well, that's the label given to the people who were perpetrating it because it matters. All right, well, let's just call it. All right, let's call it a bunch of. Let's call it a bunch of shy women. Let's call it a bunch of sex

[Kehinde Andrews]

abusing rapists, which is child sexual exploitation, which is the term that experts use. Read what experts have to say. Not podcasters shouting loudly on YouTube.

[Piers Morgan]

You know what? You know what? Hang on, hang on, please. The bottom line with grooming gangs as a label is it was entirely accurate. You had gangs of people, largely British, Pakistani men, Muslim men, who were grooming young white English girls to abuse them. That was what was happening. It was covered up. It was a national disgrace. It remains a national disgrace. And you trying to explain that grooming gangs is not a criminal activity is, I'm afraid, disingenuous.

[Kehinde Andrews]

Bullshit. It's a category. To be honest, we haven't spoken about the fact you reported me to the Metropolitan Police.

[Piers Morgan]

I appreciate.

[Cenk Uygur]

Yeah, you reported me to the Metropolitan Police.

[Piers Morgan]

They were grooming gang. What happens when it was a criminal activity? I've got to leave it there. Criminal category. Okay, we run out of time, guys. Thank you all very much. Well, joining Me now is Dr. Gad Saad. He's a scholar at the Declaration of Independence center for the Study of American Freedom at the University of Mississippi and the author of forthcoming book Suicidal Empathy. Gad, great to have you back on uncensored.

[Gad Saad]

Thank you so much for having me, Piers.

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[Piers Morgan]

Look, this is obviously, as we've just heard, a very emotive issue. It's a complex issue. It's a multifaceted issue. You know, there's no doubt there is an interesting comparison to be made about sheer volumes, for example, of Muslims in the U.K. and U.S. it's about the same number, around 4 to 5 million. But the U.S. is 6, 7 times as big as the U.K. so clearly we have a lot more Muslims in the uk. We have a tiny fraction of America's Jewish population. I think America has 7,8 million. I think it is in America, we have about 250,000. So they're right there. Just statistically we have a very different setup in terms of Muslim and Jewish populations of our respective countries. But in terms of this whole debate, fueled a lot by people on the conservative right in America, that Britain has been invaded by radical Muslims. Megyn Kelly used that phrase last week with me. And we've lost control to radical Muslims. I just see no evidence that that is remotely true. That's not to say I don't think there have been big issues with the huge influx of immigrants to the UK in the last 25 years. That is indisputable. It's gone way too far. We lost control of our general immigration policy, but that doesn't mean we've lost control of the country to radical Muslims, in my estimation.

[Gad Saad]

Look, if you take any disease, say diabetes, when you're first diagnosed with it, we're not going to amputate your leg tomorrow. But we know that there is a trajectory whereby we can predict that within a certain time period things will go wrong if you don't resolve your insulin issues. Right. So it is absolutely true, you're right that today Britain remains a non Muslim country. But if we continue along the same patterns, will it improve or will it worsen if the current immigration policies remain the same? And let me draw an analogy. There are currently 56 countries that are part of the OIC, the Organization of Islamic Cooperation. Each of those countries once upon a time started with zero Muslims. Then you close your eyes and you open your eyes, and in many of those countries, you, you have 0% non Muslims. So, for example, Egypt used to be a largely Coptic country, Coptic Christian. Today it's 10% Copts. My own country within my own lifetime used to be majority Christian country. Today it's majority Muslim country. So it's not as though everywhere that Islam goes, they just engage in an orgiastic killing of everybody. But in one way or another, once Islam enters, the goal is for you to Islamize the society. And it doesn't take a fancy professor, to understand those historical patterns.

[Piers Morgan]

I mean, it's interesting what you say. I would argue back at that, that the vast majority of Muslims I know in the UK are very happy to be part of a multicultural Britain in which they assimilate quite happily with their neighbors of all types, of all creeds and races and religions and so on. I just don't see this hotbed of radicalism. Now, I would caveat that by saying that most of the terrorism in the UK this century, for example, has been perpetrated by radical Islamists. That is indisputable, but it's been sporadic. And I think that's important to stress. It's not something that's happening like it was with the IRA, for example, in the 70s and 80s on a regular basis. It's happening sporadically. So there are an influx of some radical Islamists who perpetrate bad things. That's indisputable. But that doesn't mean we're a country under the control of radical Islam. Yeah.

[Gad Saad]

So let me. I think I might have mentioned this stat last time, but let me mention it again and then I'll draw another analogy to. In pathology and pathogen studies, there have been. This is a lower estimate. There are other databases that place what I'm about to say at a much higher number. Since 911 alone, there have been nearly 48,000 Islamic terror attacks in nearly 70 countries. Right, 48,000. If you take all of the other 10,000 religions combined, it doesn't add up to the number of fingers that I have on my two fingers. So the fact that you and I could fully agree that there are millions of Muslims who don't do this doesn't negate the fact that if you allow Islam to take a foothold in a place, we know what the outcome will be. So now I'm going to draw the analogy that I promised earlier. The shingles virus is something that you and I, given that we're roughly the same age, is something that we should be concerned about. It lays dormant in you for 20, 30, 40 years, and then there is a catalyst that then can trigger the shingles virus, and it results in a very uncomfortable situation for you, even though it laid dormant in you for 40 years. So when Islam is only 1% of the population, or 2 or 3, they don't yet have the numbers to be able to do the things that would otherwise worry you. But once they become 20%, 30%, 40%, then we can exactly predict the trajectory, trajectory as we would diabetes. So again, you have to have the imagination to extrapolate into the future and then hopefully, inshallah, the light will come to you.

[Piers Morgan]

Right, but there'll be lots of people who hear you compare Islam to a disease who will find that incredibly offensive. And there'll be many millions of Muslims in the UK because statistically the absolutely vast majority of Muslims in the UK do not commit radical acts of terrorism. So 99% at least are living in peaceful harmony and not engaging in this. And in fact a tiny fraction of British Pakistani Muslim men, for example, were engaged in the grooming gangs. Albeit their behavior was disgusting and reprehensible on the COVID up was just, just as bad. So my point being that, you know, as I read out earlier to the panel, the vast majority of sex attacks in the UK are still perpetrated by white men, for example. Right. So you know, statistics can be twisted any way people want, but this categorization of Islam as a disease in a country like the uk, I just don't sense that.

[Gad Saad]

Of course. By the way, I don't know if you're doing this willfully or not. I'm not categorizing Islam as a disease, I'm drawing an analogy. The definition of an analogy is to draw exactly a comparative mechanism of how things might proliferate. So I'm not saying Islam.

[Piers Morgan]

Yeah, but you were direct. Hang on, let's not be disingenuous. You were directly comparing it to the impact of having a disease that spreads.

[Gad Saad]

No, what I'm saying is that the phenomenon, whatever it may be, may lie dormant until there is a tipping point, point that serves as a catalyst. So if you don't like me comparing it to Islam, if we were to have millions and million millions of orthodox Jews that come into an area, there will be a number when the likelihood of teaching evolution in the schools where there are tons of orthodox Jews would reduce because they don't believe in the theory of evolution. So in this case I'm not arguing that Jews are a disease, I'm drawing an analogy. But let me come back to the point of. But most Muslims are lovely, most men do not commit rape, we can agree on that. And certainly the statistics would be no different than saying most Muslims don't commit terrorism. But if you and I have a daughter and that daughter is about to cross a dark alley where there are a few men that are loitering, would we tell her, sweetie? Statistically, most men are not going to be rapists. So even though you're wearing that really alluring miniskirt, don't worry about it because it's only a very small number that will commit rape, right? We wouldn't say that to them. Or let me give you another analogy. You and I have had young children.

[Piers Morgan]

Well, no, the analogy I would use. Yeah, but. Gad, gad, hang on, hang on. My response to that would be that, you know, statistically, 83% chance that you'll be attacked by a white man, right? So if you want to get into numbers and probability, yes, I would not want, I have a daughter, I would not want my daughter to walk across a park late at night. But actually, statistically, she's far more likely to be attacked by a white man. That is just a reality in the uk. That's why. Well, that's a statistical reality. So the framing of this debate, when people try and say, well, look, you've been invaded and overrun by radical Muslims, they all hate women, therefore it's become a very dangerous place for women because of radical Muslims. I simply throw back statistics which is 83% of serious crime in the UK remains perpetrated today by white men.

[Gad Saad]

Pierce, 96% of Scotland is white. Therefore obviously most of the rapes that are committed in Scotland are going to be committed by white men. It's this little thing called per capita adjustment. Right? I want to draw another analogy for you because you didn't like the rape one. When you and I were raising our children and had to look for a babysitter, did we typically go and look for 35 year old men as babysitters or did we look for a 15 year old teenage girl? Because we recognize that statistically speaking, 15 year old girls are much less likely to molest children than 35 year old boys, men. Now that doesn't take away from the fact that, that it is exactly true that most 35 year old men will never molest. But life is about navigating statistical regularities. The one who understands those regularities comes out on the other side without being raped. The one who lives in Unicornia will wake up one day while he's being put down on the floor being gang raped. So statistics matter. Most Muslims are perfectly lovely. Islam is not necessarily congruent with Western values. Those two statements are perfectly consistent with each other.

[Piers Morgan]

Except I would come back to this. Statistically, there are, I think, nearly 5 million Muslims living in the UK, a population of 67 million. And there was an absurd like response last week because Megyn Kelly, after our interview blew up, posted to me on X that the most popular boy's name in the country last year was Muhammad. Right. And this was immediately seized on as evidence we've been overrun by radical Muslims. Well, having the name Muhammad does not make you a radical Muslim one, Right. Secondly, it is very, very, as everybody knows who's got half a brain, it is very common for Muslim men to include the name Muhammad in the name of their sons. Right? It's a very common thing. It's not as common for white guys like me to choose the same name for all our sons. Right? So Noah was the second most popular, which is a popular Jewish name. For example, people happens to be in vogue. I think it's the most popular name in the US at the moment, is Noah. It wouldn't be most popular in the UK because of Jews, cause there are so few Jews. However, it's not surprising to me that Muhammad tops the list of boys names simply because so many Muslim families like to call their sons Muhammad. Right. So these statistics get seized on and twisted to create a false narrative that because the most popular boy's name in the country is Muhammad, even though the numbers are pretty low, that means we're being overrun by radical Muslims. I find that a ludicrous, ridiculous, you know, journey to go on intellectually, because it makes no sense to me.

[Gad Saad]

Can I take another shot at, you know, navigating through statistics? If I told you today that there is millions of guys named Moshe that are moving into Brighton, would that increase or decrease the likelihood of there being a greater preponderance of kosher places? All other things equal, you would argue there'd be an increase because since we have brains that engage in causal reasoning, I would say since Moshe is a prototypical Jewish name, and since many Jews wish to adhere to kosher laws, I can undoubtedly, unequivocally, unassailably say that if there are more Moshes in Brighton, there's more likely to be pressure to have kosher kosher food. But there'll be other Moshes that completely decide to eat a shrimp soup, right? So I am Jewish. I'm very much steeped in my Jewish heritage, and yet I eat bacon. It's not because I practice a more gentle form of Judaism. It's because I choose to ignore those parts that don't adhere to my daily lives. So most Muslims are lovely because they are innately lovely. They are nice Jews and mean Jews we're talking about Islam is Islam consist of a set of codified doctrines that are consistent with the foundational Western values. If the answer to that Pierce, is yes, then we should quickly accelerate Islamic immigration because we're going to be enriched. If the answer is perhaps no, then maybe you need to put on your statistical reasoning hat.

[Piers Morgan]

Well, my statistical reasoning hat says how much inter religious warfare do we see on the streets of my country? Elon Musk, you know, I know someone you know well, constantly fuels this sense of there's going to be an imminent civil war because of the Muslim problem. But I see a lot of Hindus over here. I see a lot of Muslims, I see a lot of Christians. I see all sorts of different people of different colors, creeds, religions and so on. And I don't see warfare everywhere. I don't see civil war erupting everywhere. I don't recognize the kind of depiction of my country which Elon has. And he's a guy who's barely set foot in my country, right. As far as I'm aware, in the last few decades. So I don't know what he's basing it on other than this is a narrative that's been fueled and picked up by a lot of people in America. And I say to Elon, Elon's not even American himself. He's an immigrant to the United States. You know, there are 5 million Muslims in the US most of whom live perfectly happily and peacefully amongst the communities they live in. There's no Muslim problem in the us There's a Muslim radical terrorist, extremist problem of terrorists coming into the country or perpetrating acts of terrorism against Americans around the world. Yes, and that's why there's been fights against Al Qaeda, ISIS and other terror groups. But to somehow then say, well then all 5 million Muslim Americans must be a danger to society would be ridiculous. And I use the same argument to apply to Muslims in the UK. Yeah, we've got nearly 5 million Muslims. Actually. The vast majority are peaceful and assimilate very well into our society and live alongside Christians, Hindus and the rest of it. Why should I be particularly exercised about the fact that their religion, Islam has different criteria and creed to my Catholicism, for example, that's fine, I can respect both. But I don't respect radical Christians and I don't respect radical Muslims and I don't respect radical Hindus. I don't respect radical people full stop. They are dangerous. Terrorism comes from people who get radicalized. I just don't see in the UK that we have a mass problem with radical Muslims who've taken over the country.

[Gad Saad]

I think it's bullshit, because the strategic template on which Islam has operated is when in the minority, act meek and like a victim, but when in the majority, smite at the neck and show no mercy. That's why I drew the earlier analogy with shingles. It takes a tipping point and numbers for some of the things that you're not yet worried about to materialize. Right. Lebanon was perfectly fine until there was an infusion of PLO terrorists and the demographics started shifting and then it didn't go well. That applies to the 56 countries that I mentioned earlier. You also mentioned, by the way, there are no problems in the United States. Well, why don't you go tell some of the people who live in Dearborn whether there are any problems that are brewing in the horizon, or go tell the people who live in Minneapolis. Again, it's a question of numbers. And if I may, I'd like to flip it to you. You're the host. But if I can play host for a second, what would be the pattern that Piers Morgan would have to see for him to say, send Gadsad an email and say, oops, Gad, I think you were onto something. Just give me a sense of what the data would need to look like for you to be concerned.

[Piers Morgan]

I would have to see clear evidence that we were getting overrun by radical Muslims. Not Muslims, radical Muslims with radical ideas that were fermented around violence. If I saw genuine evidence that that was becoming more widespread, I would be seriously concerned. I don't see it. You know, I see we were Talking earlier about 85 Sharia councils being set up who operate amongst Muslim communities up and down the country, but they have no law under British law. And that's why I don't. Particularly today, they don't. Right. So my point. So my. So here's my point, Gad. I don't think that we should turn a blind eye to potential issues. I'm not saying some of the things you've raised historically around the world have not manifested themselves. And I think it would be prudent to listen to that. You're a very wise man, very knowledgeable. I completely respect that. I do think it would be prudent of British governments, for example, to take the potential issues here seriously. But let's not get ahead of ourselves and say we've been overrun by radical Muslims. Let's make sure we protect our values in this country, make sure that people are genuinely assimilated and make sure, if we sense that there is a rising tide of violent, radical extremism from any part of our community, that we stamp on it very quickly. And that, I think would be a prudent way to deal with a problem that is not evident to me yet. But as you say, who can predict the future? Gad, I'm going to leave it there. Fascinating conversation. I love having you on Uncensored. Thank you very much.

[Gad Saad]

Cheers.

[Piers Morgan]

Piers Morgan Uncensored is proudly independent. The only boss around here is me. If you enjoy our show, we ask for only one simple thing. Hit subscribe on YouTube and follow Piers Morgan Uncensored on Spotify and Apple podcasts. And in return, we will continue our mission to inform, irritate and entertain. And we'll do it all for free. Independent Uncensored media has never been more critical, and we couldn't do it without you.