Nick Fuentes (2:41)

You want to go after families? We could play that game. Your family's green lit then, too, Piers. Your family's greenlit as well. So fuck you and your family. Fuck you and fuck your kids. You bring my dad into it.

Piers Morgan (2:54)

But, Nick, if you clutch those pearls any harder, they will bruise the back of your neck. To be clear again, this wasn't a low blow or a trap or an attack on Bill Fuentes. It was a question about a story which I thought could be insightful. And it was a story that Nick Fuentes decided to share on his own show to his own followers.

Nick Fuentes (3:20)

My dad refused to allow us. My dad would not let us go. That was a common joke. We would be deciding where to go to eat. You know, what are we gonna get for dinner tonight? And it was a running joke that me and my sister would say, Applebee's. And my dad would say, no, we will never eat at Applebee's.

Dr. Phil (3:40)

So.

Nick Fuentes (3:42)

Yeah, so not. Not a million years. Not in a million years. She'd be caught dead.

Piers Morgan (3:46)

Go.

Nick Fuentes (3:47)

Go to some other place. Go to it. Go to a different restaurant. Go to a local restaurant. So, yeah, no. No Applebee's. No Red Lobster. That's. That is commonly known as black fair. And before me and my sister were born, my family had a saying about Olive Garden that contains the N word that, you know, we're not allowed to say, that my parents wouldn't say around me and my sister about. About Olive Garden, its relationship with black people. It contains a bad word, contains a naughty word in there. So I'm not going to repeat it here.

Warren Smith (4:22)

But.

Nick Fuentes (4:24)

Yeah, we don't eat there.

Piers Morgan (4:27)

So that's Nick Fuentes in his own words, telling the story that he objected to me asking him about. One of my objectives for the interview was to find out a bit more about this guy who's at the center of a big raging storm amid the conservative movement in America right now. Is he just performative, outrageous, and attention seeking, or does he really believe the most incendiary things that he says? And if the answer to that question is yes, how did he get there? Having interviewed people for nearly four decades now, I find their upbringing is almost always influential one way or another. And if you don't want other people to talk about it, then why talk about it very publicly yourself? There are many more interesting points of debate from this interview, from crime, stats and racism to generational divides to Holocaust denial. We get to all of them, and we'll do with my panel shortly. But this one small exchange has for me really made a bigger point. What Fuentes and his fans hate most is any accountability. It's all about speaking unchallenged into an echo chamber where there's a whole movement built on directing blame on anger onto everybody else. Girls don't like you because they're difficult. Your neighborhood's in decline because of the black people. The world is corrupt because of the Jews and so on. Now he's angry about the story being shared because, in fact, he shared it himself. It wasn't a game or a trick to question Nick Fuentes about the words of Nick Fuentes. That was the whole point of the interview. Well, I'll be joined by Stella panel in a moment. We'll begin with Dr. Phil, host of the Real Story. Dr. Phil, great to have you back on uncensored as always. What do you make of Nick Fuentes?

Dr. Phil (6:07)

Well, a lot. And I first have to say I commend you for doing this interview. I know some people say, why would you platform this person? I think it took courage for you to put him on, and I'm glad that you did. Because if an adult, there's not an adult in the room to ask the hard questions and hold these type of voices accountable, then they just run unchecked. And you saw what happened here. I spent a lot of time doing trial science work in the litigation arena. And we always say your story goes a lot better if you're the only one telling it. And that's what people mean when they talk about echo chambers and living in a bubble. And what you did was hold him accountable for what he says. And of course, that's not near as much fun when a narcissist is not in a room full of people that are nodding along with them. And you just said, listen, I'm not going to introduce anything new here. I'm going to ask you about what you said and let you explain what you said. And there was no ambush here. He could have predicted with great accuracy what you were going to ask. You just ask it in a very critical thinking sort of way. And that was very uncomfortable for him because someone was holding him to account. And thank you for doing that because his opinions that he's spreading are ugly, they're corrosive, they're deeply un American. And that's the psychology of extremism. I think that he is not empowering young men. He's manipulating them. And Piers, I'm going to take a breath here in a minute and let you comment on what I'm saying. But this is the same algorithm that social media uses. If people like something, they click a little bit. If you can get them worked up about something, they click a whole lot. And that's the same strategy as the algorithm that makes social media so toxic. And that's what he does. And you called him out on that in a very transparent and fair minded way. You let him tell his story, but you ask about some of the key points.

Piers Morgan (8:34)

Yeah. And you know what was really interesting was I don't think he expected that anecdote about his father to come out so early or if at all. So he looked a bit taken aback. And the reason I asked it was very specific. I said to him, in all my experience of interviewing people, and you've interviewed as many as I have, Phil, if not more, I really do believe that the vast majority of people are a product of their environment. And if Nick Fuentes, through his own story about his parents there, and particularly his father, if he grew up in an environment of overt racism with his father saying, I'm not taking you to certain restaurants because they're associated with black fare, then you can begin to understand why he himself has become overtly racist and indeed is proud of it. So to me, it was a very relevant question. But again, it can't be an ambush if all I'm doing is asking him about a story he himself put in the public domain.

Dr. Phil (9:36)

He did introduce it into the public domain with great fanfare and having a great time doing it. Look, the most powerful role model in any child's life is the same sex parent. They write on the slate of who their children are, and they start doing that from a very early age. And they write on the slate emotionally, socially, in terms of values, thinking process. So you're quite right to bring that up. If you want to know who someone is, you need to look at from whence they came. And that doesn't mean they don't have a chance to alter that when they get other worldviews. But certainly that's a relevant subject matter that he introduced. He just introduced it when no one was calling him out or questioning him about it. And it was interesting to me how quickly he put on the victim hat and started retreating. I thought it came across as very whiny, immature, insecure and inadequate. And he said he was a racist. He said he was an incel. He used that term. He introduced that. And you know, that's defined as very misogynistic. And resentful and blaming of others, blaming women, blaming minorities, blaming Jews. He's blaming so many other people, which is strange for someone that's in a leadership position to try to do.

Piers Morgan (11:13)

You know, I asked him about his own sex life, right? Cause it seems to me relevant because this whole belief that he runs a group of incels, you know, who are involuntary celibates supposedly, and this is how the exchange went down. Are you actually attracted to women?

Nick Fuentes (11:33)

I am attracted to women.

Piers Morgan (11:35)

You're not gay?

Nick Fuentes (11:37)

No, but I will say that women are very difficult to be around. Okay, so there's that.

Piers Morgan (11:44)

And do you think they should have the right to vote?

Nick Fuentes (11:47)

I do not. No, absolutely not.

Piers Morgan (11:50)

They should stay at home.

Nick Fuentes (11:53)

Well, yeah, absolutely.

Piers Morgan (11:55)

See, basically you're just a misogynist old dinosaur, aren't you? For, for a young guy. I mean, I know I'm the boomer, I know I'm the boomer here, but actually you're a 27 year old dinosaur, aren't you? Aren't you? Nick Fuentes, all women. I am. All women are annoying. All women grow old, they all get fat. Says the guy. Have you ever had sex?

Nick Fuentes (12:16)

No, absolutely not.

Piers Morgan (12:17)

Wow. Says the guy who's never got laid.

Nick Fuentes (12:21)

That's the thing though, you boomers, it's all.

Piers Morgan (12:22)

Isn't you an expert in women, given you've never got laid?

Nick Fuentes (12:27)

Yeah, we are going back to the stone age. You're absolutely right. This, you know, you're talking about empathy and your kids are empathetic and they would never laugh at a joke about the Holocaust. And you're a misogynist. You're a simp yourself. You're totally henpecked. That's the problem.

Piers Morgan (12:44)

And what was interesting, Philly, he went on to admit he'd never been in love, never had any meaningful relationship with a woman. And yet he's so misogynist in his rhetoric about women. So demeaning about them. You know, I talked there earlier in the interview, which is why I reft it again about how he'd said on his show that women, the trouble is they're not just annoying, they get old, they get ugly, they get fat and so on. Now, really demeaning, horrible language about women, but not difficult to work out why he would feel this way if he's never had any real interaction with them. Every so often there's a piece of cinematic entertainment that just feels bigger and bigger. Not another Hollywood reboot, but an epic story of courage, faith and meaning. The Daily Wire has gone all out with this new seven part series. The Pendragon Cycle Rise of the Merlin. It's based on a book series by Stephen R. Lorhead, and it's a retelling of the classic King Arthur legend. The first official trailer just dropped. You should go and check it out. In this extraordinary world, pagan gods fall silent and empires collapse. But one man's vision ignites a civilization's rebirth. Merlin becomes the bridge between myth and history, shaping the destiny of kings. What's not to like? The Pendragon cycle Rise of the Merlin premieres exclusively on Daily Wire plus on January 22nd. Watch the full trailer now at DailyWire.com.

Dr. Phil (14:09)

Well, it's very transparent. These go back to some of the oldest parables in the world. You're talking about sour grapes here. And this is someone that has gotten into a comfort zone where he doesn't interact, he doesn't have relationships that call on him to engage in meaningful conversation with women, learn what they're about and who they are. It's easy to sit up in the cheap seats and criticize. And of course we know the talent pool in this world at every level. If we took women out of the talent pool in this world, we would be crippled so bad. Look at what's happening in medicine, technology, so many areas that if you look at the enrollment in universities right now, women have eclipsed men. He is so uninformed in his views. And the problem is you get in these cult like communities where you get people that maybe haven't had a good role model in their lives and have someone like him who can be entertaining, can be charismatic. He's a nice looking young man and people, young men will follow that if they don't have good father figures in their own life. In the absence of real leadership, they'll follow almost anyone if they present well. And that's a problem. And mothers and fathers, families need to be asking what can I do to fortify my young men against this kind of exploitation? And that's why people should be standing up and applauding you, exposing with great transparency what's going on here with this Nick Fuentes phenomenon.

Piers Morgan (16:04)

Well, all I wanted to do honestly was to work out whether it was all performative or whether he really believes a lot of the things that he says. And by the end I concluded he does actually believe a lot of this stuff.

Dr. Phil (16:17)

And I think he does. I think he believes some of it.

Piers Morgan (16:21)

But what I wasn't expecting, Phil, which I was really quite shocked by, and it takes a lot to shock me, but the sheer volume and venom on social Media of his so called groipers, these young men that adhere to his every word, who he kind of unleashes on people. It was unbelievably brazen in its misogyny, in its racism, in its antisemitism. It was some of the most vile stuff I've seen in a long time. And it was relentless and has carried on and targeting me, targeting members of my family, whatever, I don't care, I'm used to it. I've had a lot worse actually than this. They remind me of a bunch of mean boys at school. And you know, obviously I'm 60 years old. It's not going to wash the sides, this kind of thing. However, it was noticeable to me that they were almost to a man, young male, misogynist, racist and anti Semitic and view everything he says as sacrosanct. You know, this is a kind of brainwashed world. The only question I don't know is how much of them are genuine human beings and how much? Maybe as has been reported today in the New York Post, foreign bots that are unleashed because they analyze the speed of reaction to stuff that he posts and they've, they've worked out a lot of it comes from overseas and a lot of it may be bots, you know, actual robots doing this stuff, you.

Dr. Phil (17:52)

Know, these bot farms. Now there was a time when people would use these bots and they would deploy them by the hundreds. But now our research shows that these bot farms, a lot of them out of Russia and some other foreign countries, are deployed in the tens of thousands. And what happens is they start kind of a zeitgeist on the Internet. And then others, real people see that and then they start jumping on the bandwagon. And so it can drive a social media kind of think a certain, can drive social media to appear that it's thinking a certain way. But I'm sure in the middle of that, he has followers that do echo what he's saying. And it's whiny, it's immature, it's insecure, it's highly transparent. And you wonder what's going to happen to these young men if somebody doesn't force them into some critical thinking where they say, listen, what's the end result here? Where does this lead me in my life? As opposed to opening themselves up to some real interaction and some real critical thinking where they say, what do I want? What's my goal in life? Do I want to have a family? Do I want to have children? Do I want to have a meaningful career? Where I can fit into a fully functional society. And if they stay on this path, they're going to be lonely, depressed, anxious, inadequate, with a false sense of superiority that is very, very empty, very, very meaningless. And I hate that. I hate that for these young men because he is misleading them. He's not empowering them, he is misleading them.

Piers Morgan (19:45)

Yeah, you know, I totally agree. I've got three sons of 32, 28, 25. And I'd be horrified if they behaved like that. Horrified if they had those attitudes and views. Horrible. Horrified if they were so dismissive of things like the Holocaust, horrified if they spoke about women that way, horrified if they were brazenly admitting to being racists and openly admitted they avoid black people in case they get attacked and so on. All of it was actually quite disturbing.

Dr. Phil (20:18)

Well, it is. But think about all of these young men that are seemingly ascribing to his mindset. Think about what they're being cheated out of. Think about all the joy and pleasure and fulfillment that they're actually getting cheated out of if they stay this course. I mean, think about all the joy you've had with your kids, all of the rich relationships you have with female colleagues that would be off the table. Think about everything that's missed and when your heart is filled with hatred and this anti Semitism and how much you're out of touch with reality in denying the Holocaust. And you got him to agree that actually the Holocaust was real and that he said even more than 6 million people, and there were much more than 6 million people because it wasn't just the Jews that were impacted. And you got him to acknowledge some of those things. And I wonder how he'll square that up with his followers based on what he said in the past. But I think he has convinced himself that some of this is real. And that's just. That's a Sad fact.

Piers Morgan (21:37)

Yeah. Dr. Phil, as always on the money, thank you very much indeed.

Dr. Phil (21:42)

Well, thank you for doing this interview. Because as I say, if you don't, then. And I think it takes. I think it takes you to drill in on this and ask some of the uncomfortable questions. If not, then he runs unabated on the Internet. I can't believe people are saying, why are you giving him a platform? Because he needs to be asked the hard questions.

Piers Morgan (22:04)

I agree. I feel the same about Andrew Tate and these other characters. They have huge online followings. They are very influential. You can pretend they're not. You can put your head in the sand and let them go ever bigger without anything being challenged or. Or you take a view as I do, it's better to get them in front of you, ask them a lot of tough questions about their views and what they've said, and let people make their own minds up about whether they really want to lasso themselves to this person. Phil, thank you. Appreciate it.

Dr. Phil (22:32)

Well done, Piers. We'll talk soon.

Piers Morgan (22:34)

Thank you very much. Well, joining me on the panel now is Warren Smith, critical thinker, founder of the Secret Scholar Society, Andrew Wilson, host of the Crucible, Martin Lamont Hill, host of BET News, an influencer, Harry Sisson, and also joining us a little later will be Glenn Greenwald. All right, Harry Sisson, we're in the unique position, I believe, where you and I may have a slight agreement here about all this. So what was your view of the Fuentes interview?

Harry Sisson (23:01)

You know, Piers, I don't think it's a slight agreement. I think it's a full agreement. First and foremost, I do want to start off by saying I thought the way that you conducted the interview was fantastic. I watched the entire thing. And you, you, I think were the only interviewer so far to really hold Nick Fuentes accountable and not let him get away with a lot of his hateful views. I love how you played the clips side by side and made him defend it on the record. So I want to give props to you there. I thought it was really well done and I watched the entire thing and I was trying to decide, similar to you, does Nick Fuentes actually believe these things or is he doing it for the money? Is it performative? And I might disagree, slight with you. I think it's both. I think he does believe some of these things. These things. I think some of it's performative. I think when he tried to moderate himself, that's performative. But the more hateful views, that, as you mentioned, when the mass kind of slipped, that's what he truly believes. You could tell that he was trying to moderate himself when, as you were Talking about with Dr. Phil, talking about the Holocaust, he said, oh, I believe it was the Holocaust. You at least 6 million Jews. He said that, but then simultaneously claimed that Hitler is cool and that he liked his uniforms and the music and things like that. So, no, I mean, I think Nick Fuentes broadly is a sad, insecure man. I think he's a liar. I think he's a grifter. And I think you exposed that in the interview.

Piers Morgan (24:12)

Andrew Wilson, what did you think?

Andrew Wilson (24:17)

Well, I was just watching your previous segment and I thought that the framing there was a little Off. So I've always appreciated coming on the show and letting me get my viewpoints out. But I do take some issue with your framing. You did bring up the guy's dad and you said his name, and when he said it on the air that way. This is a person who has had people attempt to assassinate him. They have come to his house, shown up at his door, and tried to kill him. And that's on video happening. And so when you. When you say that, when you said the guy's name and then try to tie it into racism. I know that you know this, Pierce, but the left broadly will do. These harassment campaigns. These harassment campaigns are designed specifically to incite the violence of their. Many of their mentally ill. You know.

Piers Morgan (25:03)

Andrew, let me just say.

Andrew Wilson (25:04)

That's what they do.

Piers Morgan (25:05)

Yeah. Let me just say, if I had my time again, I wouldn't have said his father's name, but I would have still told the anecdote because I thought it was really important to Nick Thorn.

Andrew Wilson (25:14)

The anecdote's not the relevant part.

Piers Morgan (25:16)

Well, well, the anecdote is relevant when he immediately tried to. To attack me for ambushing him with a story that he told himself on his show. I mean, look, if I told a story like.

Andrew Wilson (25:26)

That's not what people are upset about.

Piers Morgan (25:28)

No, no, I understand.

Andrew Wilson (25:29)

They weren't upset about the anecdote. They were upset that you specifically said the guy's name after Quintess has had these assassination attempts on him.

Piers Morgan (25:38)

To be clear, I, if I had my time again, wouldn't have said his father's name, notwithstanding the fact you can find it in two seconds on the Internet.

Danny Finkelstein (25:45)

Right.

Piers Morgan (25:45)

So it's not like it's difficult to find, but I do think it's important that that anecdote, to me was potentially very relevant to why Nick Fuentes is the way he is about racism, for example, because he was telling a story that cannot be construed Andrew. Any other way. Then his father was directing them away from restaurants because of his racist views about the people that go in them or run them, and it couldn't be seen any other way.

Andrew Wilson (26:12)

I get that. Listen. I get the point of bringing the anecdote up, but that wasn't what looked to me like what was making these guys so angry was not the anecdote itself, but the fact that you said the guy's name referenced it as his dad. And then, you know, this guy's had assassination attempts, but the story.

Piers Morgan (26:32)

The story was him telling.

Andrew Wilson (26:34)

By the way, hang on. A lot of the first assassination attempt Happened because of the your body, my choice thing that he put that tweet out and people began doxxing his address and his family's name, and that's why they showed up to kill him. So the guy's grievance there, I think is legitimate.

Piers Morgan (26:49)

Yeah, but I think it's important that his grievance wasn't just that I named his father, which, again, is a matter of public record. You can find it anywhere. Although I wouldn't have said it if I had my time again, because I don't want to attack his family for the sake of attacking his family. It was when he tried to frame it as an unfair attack on his family, when I think actually the story that he himself put in the public domain was potentially very relevant to why he is the way he is as a journalist.

Andrew Wilson (27:16)

Well, how he was framing it was. You're trying. You're bringing this up and name doxing specifically so that you can rally people into a harassment campaign. That's how he saw it.

Piers Morgan (27:28)

No, but that wasn't. Yeah, okay, but just to be clear, again, that was not my intention. My intention was to ask him, in all sincerity, if you grow up in an environment at home where there is clear racism, that you have discussed yourself on your own show very unarguably, you can't listen to the clip. I played it earlier without realizing that's what he's saying. Then is that relevant to the way he is? We bring in Marc Lamont Hill here. I mean, Mark, you know, I didn't do that lightly. I had decided before I did the interview that a. I would do a lot of research into this. I would find all the clips that I felt were the most incendiary things he'd said on the record. And I would ask him and push him about them in a way that I don't think anyone else has really done. And it would be interesting to see the way he responded. And, you know, if you're going to talk to Nick Fuentes, who openly admits to being a racist, he did it again with me in the show. That anecdote to me was pertinent to why he may have shaped those views. What do you think? Was it unfair? Instagram teen accounts default teens into automatic protections for who can contact them and the content they can see. Explore teen accounts and all of our ongoing work to protect teens online@instagram.com teenaccounts.

Marc Lamont Hill (28:44)

I think the anecdote was entirely fair and necessary, particularly since, you know, the first part of the interview was very much about his biography. It was very much about what shaped him. He himself volunteered information, even in that interview, about his parents, about how they came together, about, you know, the loss of their fathers, et cetera. All that to me is fair game. I agree that invoking his father's name in that moment was too far. I hear you saying if you could do it again, you wouldn't. Because I do have some ethical and moral reservations about doxxing. I don't think it's wrong, for example, if someone does something awful in public and it's relevant to the public interest to track down their job and notify their job. But that's not the same thing as tracking down every private citizen just because we think they're racist or sexist or anti semitic or homophobic. I may think you're that thing, but you have a right to be that thing. Even though I think it's awful and I don't think you should be. I don't think you should live without safety because of that. Now, there's a bigger question, Piers, that you raised at the top of the interview, and it's come up again in the media, and that is, should you even be talking to this guy?

Piers Morgan (29:50)

Right.

Marc Lamont Hill (29:50)

And I gotta be honest with you, Piers, I've struggled with this. I interview controversial people. I sit down with people who people say, don't platform them. And I take seriously your point that they already have a platform and I'm not making them big. I'm not drawing attention to them. They already have the attention. They're just not being questioned or challenged on that platform. I concede that point. I agree with you fully. The problem with this guy, the problem with Nick Fuentes in particular, though, to me, is he's such a chameleon and he moves in such a way that I'm not sure holding him accountable matters to his base. And he does just enough to look moderate and normal and reasonable that I think he'll do more damage by sneaking some people from the middle and dragging them to his side because they think he's reasonable and only later find out that he's a sexist, misogynist, Hitler loving Nazi. Right? Or whatever he is. Right? That's where the danger comes for me. I'm not saying we shouldn't interview controversial people. I'm just saying this particular guy, I feel like we're playing into his interests and his angle.

Piers Morgan (30:45)

Yeah, well, Glenn Greenwald, welcome back to uncensored. You've had Fuentes on your show. What's your view about that issue about platforming him at all? Oh, I don't even.

Glenn Greenwald (30:57)

I didn't even consider it to be a difficult question at all. I mean, if you're going to have people on who are responsible for the invasion and destruction of Iraq based on lies or the incineration of Vietnam or the destruction of Gaza and the deaths of tens of thousands of people and welcome them and treat them like respectable people, tell me what it is that Nick Fuentes has done remotely as bad as that, that justifies allowing them to come on and speak, but not him. And whether you like it or not, he does speak for a huge number of people in his generation, and even other generations as well, who feel the same kind of anger and frustration with the status quo, with the establishment, with the kind of dogma that we've been told we have to accept. And there's a lot of people who are angry about it and who rebel against it. And we saw this with Donald Trump on maybe a little bit of a smaller sc, but very much the same pattern. When Donald Trump appeared, everybody was like, he's racist and fascist and he's misogynist and he's this and that. And no one wanted to grapple with the reason why his message was resonating so much. And to me, it is very similar to Nick Fuentes. Say what you want about him, he's extremely smart, an incredibly talented communicator, and very well read. Like, he's very informed. He's not just some sensationalist babbling on the Internet. And I think the reason he has attracted a lot of attention is because he's speaking to the anger and frustration, a lot of which is valid, of a lot of people. And to stick your head in the sand and say, we're gonna pretend that this isn't happening because his views are too off. But the people who start wars or responsible for the 2008 financial crisis, these are respectable people who we treat with respect, like Joe Biden or Hillary Clinton or whoever. That, to me, is the kind of thing that I think is really distorted.

Piers Morgan (32:36)

Yeah, you know, I. Warren Smith, can.

Marc Lamont Hill (32:39)

I respond to that?

Piers Morgan (32:39)

Well, no, let me bring in Warren Smith first, and then I'll come back to you, Mark. You know, Warren, that really is my feeling about it, is that you can let these guys like Fuentes and Andrew Tate run riot, and they do already. And they have massive followings, millions and millions of young men. I know when I interview Tate, the number of young men who just come up to me on the street to ask about it is off the charts. More than almost any other guest I ever have. So we can either pretend this phenomenon isn't happening and Fuentes is a phenomenon whether people like it or not. And I don't, you know, I don't hate everything about him. There were elements of that interview where it was a genuinely quite interesting conversation, but there were elements which either because he wanted to be performative and shocking and attention seeking, whatever it may be, or because he really believes it, where I felt we saw a pretty dark underbelly of some of his beliefs. You know, I mean, when somebody just says I am a racist and then explains, yeah, well, let me play the clip first, then come to you. You're fine with saying you're a racist?

Warren Smith (33:42)

Totally.

Nick Fuentes (33:42)

I think everybody's racist. I think everybody, if we're being honest, is racist. I think everybody, the only people that aren't racist or pretend not to be are white people to their detriment. Everybody else is racist.

Piers Morgan (33:55)

But you spent earlier in the interview, you really got aggrieved at the idea that your father was a racist. You wanted to make emphatic my father's.

Nick Fuentes (34:04)

He's not because my father doesn't share my same views on that.

Piers Morgan (34:07)

So he's the exception to the. Everyone's a racist.

Nick Fuentes (34:10)

Well, everybody's a little bit racist.

Piers Morgan (34:14)

I mean, I thought it was an interesting contradiction there, which he was probably calculating in real time that having got so exercised about the idea that his father was racist, he then said everyone's racist and there's nothing wrong with it effectively. But putting that to one side, Warren, I mean, you know, this issue of whether you platform somebody like Fuentes who has these inflammatory views, I think we can all agree they're inflammatory. A lot of his views, you know, is this is, am I, by doing it, am I continuing to fuel this phenomenon in a way that is a negative for society or in a free democratic society, you know, should I be entitled to interview who the hell I like as long as I do my job as a journalist of holding him to account over these things. Let other people work it out for themselves.

Warren Smith (34:58)

No, I think it's totally understandable and I agree that you would have him on. I was in the same position where I was genuinely shocked when I made a knee jerk response video to something he had said. I was overwhelmed by the response. I was like, I had no idea there were this many people out there that agreed with him. And I had people that I knew actually telling me, no, you're oversimplifying this. And I actually went back and Looked at the same clip and realized I had oversimplified it. There was actually. I was looking at it through the narrative, going into it without much prior research, and that actually led to me sitting down with him for an hour and a half. I think it's important, though, if you want to achieve the ideal outcome. It is important to actually genuinely be trying to gain a better understanding of his reasoning and in his arguments and not just trying to win or embarrass, because in the long run I think that will backfire and that will cause him to become bigger.

Piers Morgan (36:01)

Yeah, that's an interesting point. You know, people were asking me, you know, he won, or people said, you won. I said, look, I didn't seek out to win. I don't seek out ever to win an interview. That's not the point of an interview. Actually, what I wanted to do over two hours was A, personally get to know him better because I know nothing about him other than what I've read. I've never met him, I've never interviewed him, and B, to go over all these things which he's notorious for, and actually work out the correct context, what he really believes, what may have motivated this, and so on. And I think a lot of that was achieved in the interview, but it wasn't, you know, I think it very quickly afterwards, you know, when I asked him during the interview, you know, how he felt towards the end, how he felt at the gun. He thought I'd been fair, he didn't think I'd ambushed him and so on. He made that clear in the interview. And yet afterwards, almost immediately afterwards, he comes out full bore on the attack, which is what he does. But it was interesting to me that the reaction from his sort of mob of gripers was instantaneous and extraordinarily widespread. They just come as this mobile and it's very. And if you're not me, who's got a very thick skin, it's a pretty hard thing to get back at you. Look, I don't care. I've had a lot worse and they'll move on and that's what happens. But if you're not. Actually, it can be very intimidating. It was very threatening, very racist, very anti semitic, very nasty. Actually, like I said, it didn't, you know, it wasn't scrape the surface with me because I got a skin of a thousand rhinos. But to other people, I could see it really being a pretty terrifying experience.

Glenn Greenwald (37:44)

Hey, Peter, can I ask a question about that?

Marc Lamont Hill (37:46)

Yeah, they're doing that, they're doing that. Too.

Piers Morgan (37:50)

Sorry, Glenn, go first. Yeah.

Glenn Greenwald (37:55)

Hang on, guys.

Piers Morgan (37:56)

Don't talk at once. Let me start with Glenn.

Glenn Greenwald (37:59)

Thanks, Mark. I'm sorry to interrupt, but the issue is, why does he have such a loyal following? Why does he have a large and loyal following? Now, you can ask that question about Donald Trump, and a lot of people are satisfied by saying, oh, America's just filled with racists and misogynists and xenophobes. And he's playing into that. And maybe that is part of it. Politicians do demagogue and play to our worst instincts, always. But there was a lot more to it than that. And I think people understand 10 years later that there is and was a lot more to that. So you can say, oh, yeah, Nick Fuentes has this army of angry young men who are incredibly devoted to him, who believe that he's speaking truth uniquely, because they're also a bunch of Nazis and racists and Jew haters and. Okay, that's an easy. I think there's a lot more to it, and I think people ought to grapple with the reason why he's speaking for so many people.

Piers Morgan (38:47)

No, I think that's a very valid point. You know, I've always said about Andrew Tate, for example, that, you know, a lot of the things he says I can understand if you're a young, slightly disenfranchised young man, you feel society has got it in for you, and all you ever hear is man bashing. I can understand why you gravitate to a guy like Tate who stands there tall and proud as a very masculine kind of guy, beating his chest, talking about, you know, taking care of your body and getting fit and being a protector and all these things. I get all that. But then he slides into brazen misogyny, which I hate. Marc Lamond Hill, let me bring you in here. I mean, I just want to. Before you say what you want to say, what he said after the interview. Nick Fuentes was Piers Morgan tried his best, but his hardball interrogation made me look even better than Tucker's wildly criticized softball interview. The regime can acquiesce like Tucker, or it can try to resist like peers, but the result is inevitably the same. Total Gruiper victory. Now, look, on one level, I admire his social media work, right? He goes on the attack, he gives it full bells. He claims total victory. It's very Trumpian, and it can be very effective, okay? And he's perfectly entitled to claim total victory and whatever. And I'm sure all his supporters agree. But it's interesting that he views me and Tucker Carlson and other people who now do our own shows or whatever as the regime. Almost like anybody who's older than him is part of some ancien regime that just doesn't get it. All his supporters called me boomer, right? And I was like, I've been called that probably ever. Okay, I'm a boomer. I don't know what that means, but it just means I'm an old dude who doesn't get it right. And it may be, as Glenn says, there is a more interesting conversation to be had about why these guys get so popular. And it may be that when I do my old. My slightly old school journalistic trick, as somebody put it, of just being quite tough and rigorous with questioning, that it's viewed by young people who gravitate to people like these guys as just an old boomer going through the motions.

Marc Lamont Hill (40:50)

Perhaps. I mean, and also, I wouldn't assume that because he said that, that he believes it, that he actually believes you're part the regime or that he believes that one is softball or hardball. He gives a lot of the characteristics, mannerisms, approaches, styles of a cult leader. And cult leaders navigate their followers in very particular ways, including re narrating or counter narrating events that happen in ways that are favorable to them. That's why when I said I struggle with whether or not you should have him on the show, I didn't say you shouldn't, and I didn't say you should. I genuinely. It's a struggle for me. Again, as a journalist, I have interviewed despots, killers, you know, people, I mean, genocide leaders. I've done it all. And there are days where it feels very clear and obvious why I should do it. They need to be held accountable. They need to be forced to answer tough questions. And I don't put them in a contrary to what was said. I don't hold them in a different box than I do Hillary Clinton or Joe Biden or someone who I voted for, you know, potentially. Right. They all need to be held to scrutiny. Everybody in power needs to be held accountable. I'm with that. My concern in this particular case, though, is that I'm not sure what the net gain is. I don't know if you really got to know a better him. Not because you didn't do a great job, you did do a great job, but because I'm not sure who the person is behind that Persona. And the question I would ask you peers is if you knew ahead of time that doing this interview would double the amount of people who believed in the worst things that he believes. Would you still do the interview if.

Piers Morgan (42:19)

You knew you would double the amount of people? I honestly don't think that.

Marc Lamont Hill (42:21)

Would you still do it?

Piers Morgan (42:22)

Well, I don't think that that is going to be a consequence. But what I do think is that. But if it were. Let me make my point. I don't like generalizing. You know, when Hillary Clinton called Donald Trump supporters, the MAGA supporters, a basket of deplorables, it probably lost on that election. When you generalize about millions and millions of people, it's always a very precarious and stupid folly to do that. What I can say with. Agreed, but what I can say with some certainty is that pretty well 100% of his gripers who've directly messaged me or members of my family have been highly abusive, overtly racist, very misogynist, and many of them anti Semitic. I can say that with certainty. Now, what I don't know is how many of those are human beings and how many are from a bot farm. Because according to reports in the last two days, a lot of his stuff comes from bot farms. I don't know if that's true, but that's been reported in various mainstream papers.

Marc Lamont Hill (43:17)

I don't doubt it.

Piers Morgan (43:19)

And I don't know how representative these ones on X or Instagram are of the total body of his support. I just don't know. So, you know, I don't want to generalize and say.

Marc Lamont Hill (43:29)

And neither do I, period.

Piers Morgan (43:30)

I don't want to say all Nick Fuente supporters are disgusting because there may be a lot of people. It's a bit like Tommy Robinson. Let me make my point.

Marc Lamont Hill (43:37)

I'm not saying that to be clear.

Piers Morgan (43:38)

Let me finish my point. It's a bit like Tommy Robinson. Tommy Robinson in the uk, right. Is a bit like Fuentes over here. And there's no doubt as the people marching with him have grown bigger and bigger and bigger, the idea that they're all fascist, racist, whatever, whatever is nonsense. A lot of people are marching for well intentioned reasons connected with the immigration crisis in the uk, Right. He has bad people as well, and I think he's a malevolent character. But again, I wouldn't generalize anymore about all these people that marched.

Andrew Wilson (44:09)

Can I ask you a question, Pierce?

Piers Morgan (44:10)

Yes, yeah, sure.

Andrew Wilson (44:12)

I would like to, but again, I didn't generalize.

Piers Morgan (44:17)

Okay.

Andrew Wilson (44:18)

There was a part of the interview where you're very combative and you said you haven't even been laid and you're a Virgin. This guy's a Roman Catholic, right? Isn't he supposed to be a virgin until he's married? Isn't that part of your guys faith?

Piers Morgan (44:33)

Yeah, to be fair to him, to be fair to him, that is. I was brought up a Catholic, I'm not a particularly devout Catholic. I disagree with a lot of the churches.

Andrew Wilson (44:41)

But you do agree that Catholics are supposed to remain chased until marriage, right?

Piers Morgan (44:46)

The strict interpretation from the Catholic Church about that is you should come.

Andrew Wilson (44:50)

He didn't get, shouldn't he get credit for that idea that he's kind of staying, he's staying within the confines of his religious beliefs.

Piers Morgan (44:59)

I have no problem. But he also, or he can't get any action, but he also self identifies as an incel.

Andrew Wilson (45:07)

So like here's what Mark just said. You see what I mean? Like he can't get any action. The guy is rich as shit and he's a good looking guy. He could get action if he wanted it. Hang on Mark, I agree with you.

Marc Lamont Hill (45:22)

I'm just teasing.

Andrew Wilson (45:23)

What I'm saying to you though is this, is that. Yeah, of course he could. The thing is though is that if, if he's, if you guys are saying like he's a, he's a huckster, he's a fraud, isn't he? In fact following rigorously his faith by doing that.

Piers Morgan (45:37)

So my response to that, I think.

Harry Sisson (45:39)

It'S a very important.

Piers Morgan (45:40)

Hang on, hang on, Harry. I think it's a very good. I want to respond to Andrew.

Harry Sisson (45:44)

No, it's not.

Piers Morgan (45:45)

I think it's a perfectly valid question, particularly as I have always said, I'm a Catholic, I was raised a Catholic. I had spiritual guidance from Catholic nuns when I was 12 years old. You know, I go to church occasionally. I'm not devout, I'm not there all the time. I don't agree with some of the Catholic churches views and policies and I wish they would evolve faster. However, you know, as speaking Catholic to Catholic with him, yes, it's a perfectly valid thing that he could say I am saving myself for marriage. But if that's all he said, fine. But I would argue that, you know, if you look at him as a Christian, for example, how many of his other views are compatible with being a Christian? Right.

Harry Sisson (46:24)

Well, his view, his view on the.

Andrew Wilson (46:25)

Priesthood, his overt racism was correct.

Piers Morgan (46:28)

His Jew baiting, his overt racism, the despicable way he talks, talks about women generally and so on. None of those things are what you would categorize as being a good Christian.

Andrew Wilson (46:37)

So I think you can have dogmatic distinctions with him. And that's fine within the confines of the faith. But with the points he brought up when he said women aren't allowed to be clergy, that's true. They're not allowed to be clergy by the Catholic faith. And when he said he's saving himself from marriage, but he also said, he said.

Piers Morgan (46:54)

But hang on, Andrew, when he said that women shouldn't be allowed the vote and should stay at home, I should also have jobs, Would you agree with that?

Dr. Phil (47:02)

Catholic.

Andrew Wilson (47:02)

The Catholic Church does not have dogmatic teaching on democracy. They're not like, oh, democracy is the standard.

Piers Morgan (47:09)

I'm asking you, I'm asking you, I'm asking you whether you think when he says women shouldn't be allowed to vote and should stay at home and not work.

Andrew Wilson (47:16)

Well, I think most people shouldn't be allowed to vote. I think I would limit suffrage for most people like our founders did. I think. Would you make it specific to women Suffrage?

Piers Morgan (47:25)

Would you make it specific to women?

Andrew Wilson (47:26)

Gender, not specific. Not specific.

Piers Morgan (47:28)

Hang on, hang on. Let me. Why would that matter?

Andrew Wilson (47:30)

Why would that matter?

Piers Morgan (47:33)

I do think. If you say, I do think after they've waged 100 year war women for women's equal rights to then remove one of the wrenching building blocks of that, which is what the suffragettes fought for, the right to vote. I think if you remove that.

Andrew Wilson (47:47)

Come on. That whole movement was totally AstroTurf. That's one.

Piers Morgan (47:50)

Well, it won them the right to vote.

Andrew Wilson (47:51)

Let's just point this out. There's a good argument from a Christian perspective to make that the husband, the head of the household should be the one voting within his dogma. That would make sense. So there is a Christian case that you could make for that, that the head of household. Right now what goes on in Christian households is that the wife is just doubling the vote of the man. Right? So this is not against the purview of Fuentes and it doesn't even sound particularly misogynistic to me. Okay, 19th amendment.

Piers Morgan (48:18)

Harry, what's your response to that? Uncensored is proudly sponsored by Cozy Earth, which like me, delivers next level quality and comfort. If I wasn't hosting this show today, I'd be wearing a pair of their bamboo joggers. Why? Well, they're buttery, soft, they never lose their shape, and besides TV appearances, you can wear them for pretty much anything. Flights, school runs or just relaxing at home. For those seeking intense comfort in more formal attire, take a look at their every wear pant. Lightweight, breathable, ludicrously Flexible, but still polished enough to wear out. If you're ready to look sharp and feel Great, go to cozyearth.com and use code Piers P I E R S for up to 40% off. Joggers, pants, shirts, everything. And remember to tell them that I sent you cozy. Earth built for real life. Today's show is sponsored by Oxford Natural, makers of the Optimum Day and Optimum Night, all natural supplements. Thousands of Brits and Americans are already taking them with incredible results. Optimum Day boosts your energy and supports weight loss throughout the day. Optimum Night helps you relax and get deep, refreshing sleep. They have countless success stories, including from some very familiar faces. England legend Michael owen, who lost £40. AFTV's Robbie, who lost more than £100. To watch their full stories and many more, scan the QR code on your screen or visit oxfordnatural.com and here's the best part. Use the code peers and get 70% off your first order. Yes, 70% off with the code. Piers.

Harry Sisson (49:55)

There'S so much to respond to right there. I do want to point out that Andrew was talking about, you know, Nick Fuentes is a good Christian. He was. He's being celibate until marriage because of this reason. That's not what he said in the interview when he was going back and forth with you on this, Piers. He talked about how women are gross and they get fat and they're ugly and he wouldn't give his female friend a tampon because they're gross and things like that. So Andrew is making an argument for Nick that Nick did not make in the interview. Nick Fuentes is just an open misogynist who has spent far too much time in his basement alone, festering online and getting involved in his own conspiracy theories that he's creating. There's nothing. Or at least in his via his own words in the interview, he did not present it as a case of him being religious and him staying perfectly to the religious text now.

Andrew Wilson (50:38)

Yes, he did. I have the quote. I have the quote.

Harry Sisson (50:40)

Go watch the viral. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Andrew, go watch the back and forth.

Piers Morgan (50:45)

Watch.

Harry Sisson (50:46)

Go watch the back and forth when.

Andrew Wilson (50:48)

He in front of me.

Harry Sisson (50:49)

Andrew, Andrew, Andrew, please be quiet. Go watch the back and forth with Pierce in that specific instance. Why are you a virgin? Have you slept with anybody? And yes, go watch the clip. Fine. Let the record speak for itself. You can go watch the clip if you'd like. That's what he said.

Andrew Wilson (51:03)

No, you said he didn't give a the entire interview.

Harry Sisson (51:05)

Andrew, can you please Be, can you please be quiet? Can you just zip it first?

Piers Morgan (51:08)

Why don't we watch the exchange again and claret.

Harry Sisson (51:11)

Let's do it. Let's do it. Do it.

Piers Morgan (51:14)

Are you actually attracted to women?

Nick Fuentes (51:17)

I am attracted to women.

Piers Morgan (51:18)

You're not gay.

Andrew Wilson (51:21)

No.

Nick Fuentes (51:22)

But I will say that women are very difficult to be around. Okay, so there's that.

Piers Morgan (51:28)

And do you think they should have the right to vote?

Nick Fuentes (51:31)

I do not. No. Absolutely not.

Piers Morgan (51:33)

They should stay at home.

Nick Fuentes (51:36)

Well, yeah, absolutely.

Piers Morgan (51:39)

So basically you're just a misogynist old dinosaur, aren't you? For, for a young guy? I mean, I know I'm the boomer, I know I'm the boomer here, but actually you're a 27 year old dinosaur, aren't you? Aren't you? Nick Fuentes. All women. I am. All women are annoying. All women grow old, they all get fat. Says the guy. Have you ever had sex?

Nick Fuentes (52:00)

No, absolutely not.

Piers Morgan (52:01)

Wow. Says the guy who's never got laid.

Nick Fuentes (52:05)

That's the thing though. You boomers, it's all.

Piers Morgan (52:06)

You're an expert in women given you've never got laid.

Nick Fuentes (52:11)

Yeah, we are going back to the stone age. You're absolutely right. This, you know, you're talking about empathy and your kids are empathetic and they would never laugh at a joke about the Holocaust. And you're a misogynist. You're a simp yourself. You're totally henpecked. That's the problem.

Piers Morgan (52:28)

So he doesn't actually there, Andrew, mention the reason that you've given.

Andrew Wilson (52:34)

Not in that clip. But he did mention that he's supposed to be chased. If it's so important to him, why.

Harry Sisson (52:43)

Didn'T he say it right there? Why? Why didn't he say it right there? Because his reasoning right there was women are gross and they get fat and things like that.

Glenn Greenwald (52:50)

Yeah.

Harry Sisson (52:51)

Wait, no, but if this is.

Andrew Wilson (52:52)

So that's called cherry reason. That's a cherry pick.

Harry Sisson (52:54)

No, no, Andrew. If that's his reason, his reason doesn't change in five minutes. He doesn't go from oh, I'm a Catholic, I'm. I'm staying my religion. Women are gross and that's why I don't do it. Wait, wait, wait. You just said that his religion is the main reason as to why he's celibate.

Andrew Wilson (53:09)

So now he was the main reason.

Harry Sisson (53:10)

Five minutes before and then it fast forward to five minutes later. Women are gross.

Andrew Wilson (53:14)

It doesn't mean he can't have multiple.

Harry Sisson (53:16)

Reasons, just such an important reason that he didn't bring it up again. That Makes total sense. He just brought up an entirely different.

Andrew Wilson (53:22)

Okay, so that was his first reason to.

Harry Sisson (53:24)

His misogyny.

Andrew Wilson (53:24)

That was his first reason because it was the most important reason.

Harry Sisson (53:26)

But in that interaction, he didn't say anything about religion. And if it's his central view, if so central to who he is, that he bases his misogynistic views off of.

Piers Morgan (53:36)

Well, the other thing. The other thing. If I could jump in. The other thing we bring.

Harry Sisson (53:40)

Come on in. Don't crash out like you did on that podcast, man.

Piers Morgan (53:42)

Hang on, let me bring Glenn back in. The other argument, which I thought was interesting, and I thought I missed a bit of a trick here with him, was when he was talking about the Holocaust, where people have assumed he's a Holocaust denier because of things he said in the past, of trivializing it and question the number of people who've died and so on, he seemed to try and take a more moderate position, which was, Yes, I believe 6 million Jews were killed, maybe more. Whether he meant that or whether he was being some sort of satirical.

Glenn Greenwald (54:10)

He was satirizing you. He was satirizing that.

Piers Morgan (54:13)

That's what I. That's what I now believe was probably happening. Yeah. So I suspect he was. Yeah. But regardless, his argument was, it all happened so long ago. Why did Jews continue talking about the Holocaust? We've all moved on. They use it all the time as a political weapon and so on. And, of course, I suppose the obvious question for him, I went and checked afterwards how many times he's talked about, for example, on his show, the crucifixion of Jesus Christ, which was over 2,000 years ago. Right. He does it all the time. So, you know, if I'd been smart in the moment, as a fellow Christian, I would say, well, hang on, isn't that exactly what Christians do all the time about the crucifixion? What's the difference?

Andrew Wilson (54:51)

It sounds like his religion does matter.

Glenn Greenwald (54:52)

To me because it's absolutely central to their religion. And I think, you know, I do think so much of what your interview with Nick Fuentes highlighted was extreme generational differences. It was sometimes like watching two people speak different languages. You know, Pierce, you and I are kind of the same age or obviously older. Everyone can see that, but just a little bit. And, you know, for people who were born in, like, the 60s, the Holocaust was just 20 years before World War II had just ended. Twenty years before, there was a mythology about the United States, about our role in the world, about how great of a country we were, about all the great Things we did about the Holocaust, the unique evil. Now it's 75 years ago, and people who are next generation, where Harry's were born in, you know, 2000 and 2002, and this idea that, yeah, the Holocaust has been weaponized. We've been beaten over the head with it for eight decades. We've been forced to spend and pay huge amounts of money in reparations or that slavery is sometimes weaponized that way. This is a very common view. So I think when he's doing things like making jokes about the Holocaust, it's not because he thinks it's funny that huge numbers of people are exterminated. I think it's a way of purposely being transgressive about orthodoxies and pieties that a lot of people in his generation don't accept.

Piers Morgan (56:04)

But there was a bit. Yeah, but Glenn. Hang on, hang on, Harry, hang on. There was. Glenn. There was a callousness to it, and I'll tell you why. I brought on a guy called Danny Finkelstein. He's a top journalist for the Times newspaper over here who wrote a very powerful book about his family and their horrendous experience at the hands of Hitler and Stalin. And it's incredibly powerful. It's very moving. It's informed his life. And I'm going to talk to Danny, actually, after we finish this, because he's been on the receiving end of the most appalling abuse in the last 48 hours. All directed by Nick Fuentes, who was so dismissive of him, so dismissive of him talking about his mother and father. So just callous in the way he responded. It's that kind of utter devoidness of any empathy whatsoever. You can have a view that we should try and move on generationally from these seismic moments. Okay? But you don't have to be so callous towards somebody whose family literally got murdered by people like Hitler and Stalin, do we?

Glenn Greenwald (57:04)

I mean, but the idea, Peter, I think the thing is, like, this generation of people grew up in the wake of the Iraq war, in the wake of endless war, in the wake of the destruction of their financial security, with the 2008 financial crisis, with all the lies of COVID and Russiagate and all the rest of it, and faith and trust in these institutions have collapsed. So when they look at people who represent institutional thinking and they're told, you're not allowed to make fun of this and you're not allowed to talk about this and accept in the ways that we prescribe, and we're going to call you all these names. Unless you affirm all these pieties over and over and over again. One of the ways of rebelling against that is to say, you know, it's a very common generational reaction is to say, f you, we're gonna transgress every line that you told us. We can't because we hate you. We think that the things that you're doing have been destructive to our lives. And I think, like, ignoring that part of us.

Piers Morgan (57:58)

You know what, Glenn? I think it's a very valid point, and there may well be a generational thing to this. Let me bring in Warren, just for the record, by the way, Andrew, we've just been through the whole transcript, and he never uses the excuse that you. You may have heard him do it elsewhere. He talked about clergy, whether women should be allowed to be clergy, women and so on, and obviously they can't under the Catholic Church doctrine. But he never uses. He never says celibacy. It's for religious reason.

Andrew Wilson (58:27)

His primary view. His primary view is he's supposed to wait until marriage.

Piers Morgan (58:31)

That may be his view, but he didn't expect. He didn't express that view in my interview, is the point. We've just checked the transcript.

Harry Sisson (58:37)

Andrew was just saying, oh, I have the quote. I have the quote, and there's no quote.

Piers Morgan (58:40)

Well, it may. Look, I'm not. I can't rule out. I can't rule out he hasn't said it elsewhere. And it may be. Angie's heard it, heard him say that before. I'm just saying in my interview, he doesn't.

Marc Lamont Hill (58:50)

We could just say, you know what? I made a mistake. It's okay to be like, yeah, I got it wrong. I may have heard it elsewhere.

Warren Smith (58:54)

Yeah.

Harry Sisson (58:55)

Yeah, I like that.

Piers Morgan (58:56)

All right, let me bring Warren. Warren back in. Warren, you're a critical thinker. You know, Glenn's stopped me in my tracks a little bit and made me think about this. Right. Because I think there is probably a generational thing here. And I do think that in a way, you know, maybe Mark's right, that by me interviewing Fuentes, the only real winner at the end of the day may be Nick Fuentes. Because none of his supporters, certainly from the reaction I've had, have changed their impression of him one iota. I mean, they just assumed he just landslided me and that was it, and I was an old boomer sent packing. And it may be, as Marx says, that other more moderate people quite like some of the things they heard. I don't know. He is charismatic. He's a good talker. And he's smart and all these things. I don't dispute any of that. From a critical thinking point of view, where does this take society? If people like Nick Fuentes grow ever more popular, what will happen to a whole army of young men here? Yeah.

Warren Smith (59:55)

Last night I held a focus group to try and get to the bottom of this, and I was with over 30 people. The vast majority. Three disagreed with the vast majority. And what they. They were saying things such as, I went into this exchange not expecting to like anything about this guy, but what I saw was Pierce not contending with his arguments. I think that's why when you bring up his dad, that's why he gets upset, because he's saying, look, man, I'm here, let's talk. Why are you talking about my dad? Contend with my logic. It's the same thing when he. That was his response when you brought on your British friend who told his horrific story, which, it's terrible, and you could disagree with his response to it. But I think he's saying, why are we. You're just telling me what you're saying is bad, but you're not really contending with the argument. And I think that is the core problem that has led to this outcome. Because you can play these clips. There's nothing wrong with that. I don't think he was surprised by anything that occurred in here. That's another reason that you're seeing the backlash is because it was exactly what people predicted, largely. But when you play that clip, it's like, okay, yes, that's taken from a large stream in the past. People evolve. And if you're asking him in that conversation to expand on that, and then he does, and he does present logic. What I'm seeing is people say, no, you're saying that now, but you're lying. You're playing this game. You're pretending to be moderate. And now your mind reading, you're saying, I know what Nick Fuentes thinks more than Nick Fuentes. And I do think it's really important these exchanges to come at it with that first principle of I'm going to take the wild approach, that I'm going to wipe the slate blank and assume that the person who knows the most about what Nick Fuentes actually thinks is Nick Fuentes. And that seldom happens. And when it does, I do see, I saw a vastly different response to my conversation, but I don't think I challenged him any less.

Piers Morgan (61:54)

Right. That's very. You know what? It's very interesting. It's very interesting. I've been Reading, I mean, I read and take note of the more nuanced commentary about it. I don't listen to the gripers all ranting away or attacking me or my family, whatever. They can do what they like, they can do that rest of their lives. I couldn't give a damn. But I do think there's a.

Warren Smith (62:10)

More.

Piers Morgan (62:10)

There are interesting arguments to be had about this because whether we like it or not, he is a phenomenon, is a growing phenomenon, and people, young people, are gravitating to him. And it may well be for the reasons that Glenn articulated and how we, the rest of us deal with this is a really interesting story, but that was a really interesting discussion. Thank you all very much. I appreciate it. Well, joining me now is Daniel Frankenstein from the Times who wanted to address the anti Semitism row with Nick Fuentes. Danny, I played a clip you sent me. We discussed this. You sent me like a 90 second video clip to play him about your own family's horrific experience at the hands of Hitler and Stalin from your very powerful book. And I've been struck by two things. One, his utterly dismissive reaction in the moment. But secondly, the horrible pile on that's been directed at you in the most mocking, awful manner. What's it been like for you?

Danny Finkelstein (63:04)

So that is a bit distressing. There's no two ways about it. But I suppose you have to understand that Hitler would never have come to power in the first place if there weren't a lot of people with that mentality. And that's what he's proving. His own response on the program was, I think the only thing that he sort of felt he could do. But I think he made a big mistake. I think he thinks, you know, he did lived at large by admitting what, you know, kind of just saying to you, yeah, sure, I'm a racist, sure I don't like black people, sure I don't want women to vote. Sure, I think the Holocaust is fine. He thinks that he's winning out of that. But actually what he's doing ultimately is marginalizing himself. So he does produce, as you've experienced and as I have this kind of deep reaction where people interestingly repeated his jokes. So it was all like a bit of a cult. And I noticed that. And that is, that's not nice to receive. But I think it's worth it in order to try to expose the sort of person he is and to try to isolate him from the rest of the American right, which I'm very concerned about. That's one of the reasons why I wanted you to go ahead and confront him in the way that you did, which I think was very effective, and why I wanted to join in with that, because I think it's really important that this kind of thinking doesn't go into the mainstream of the right. And he chose the path of deepening rather than widening. And that was a mistake.

Piers Morgan (64:22)

Yeah, he did. But it's whether he would see that as a mistake or whether he thinks, as he says, we're a couple of old boomers who just don't get it, who don't understand how young American men are thinking right now, and he's much more aware of how they are thinking about issues.

Danny Finkelstein (64:39)

Calling us boomers is like reconfiguring or rebadging his incredible ignorance and childishness as an asset. In fact, what was obvious is he hasn't got a foggiest clue what he's talking about, and he doesn't know anything about. There was one brilliant bit where he said he thought Hitler was cool. He said, I'm not in favor of genocide in parenthesis. Well, you actually are. And so he doesn't really understand anything about it, nor do his supporters. So they kind of dismiss it airily as, you know, a laugh, and who cares what happened all that time ago, and then calls us boomers, as if you or I cared about that. So, yes, it's absolutely true. I've lived quite a bit longer than him in order that I've actually read more books, understood more, and know more of what I'm talking about. So he was sensitive about his own ignorance, and it came out in a kind of bragging way. And then, of course, a load of other people pile on to support that as if they're unbothered by it. But he's made a mistake which he'll live to regret, Even though he's 27 now and hasn't lived very long to regret anything.

Piers Morgan (65:49)

There's. I mean, what's happening with the kind of conservative movement in totality in America is fascinating. You're seeing splits within the MAGA movement. You're seeing others now developing, like Fuentes and others outside of maga, going very hostile on Trump and so on. You're seeing a lot of stuff going on here. What do you make of it?

Danny Finkelstein (66:08)

So it's really fascinating thing is the split between your two interviewees, Sucker Colson and Nick Fuentes. Ultimately, that actually is in fact, what I'm really interested in producing.

Piers Morgan (66:19)

Right.

Danny Finkelstein (66:19)

Tucker Cosn has gone wild. Some of the things as you laughed in his face, when he said some of the things about the French, his ridiculous point about Poland not understanding at all, of course, we had to enter the war before Hitler invaded us. Any historical account will show that we couldn't trust him or have a deal with him.

Piers Morgan (66:37)

And in fact, we had a contractual.

Danny Finkelstein (66:39)

Obligation to help Poland and which we. We went into not simply because of Polish human rights, but because we understood strategically we had to do that. The American, by the way, did not do that and ended up being dragged into the war anyway. So Tucker Carlson's position was ridiculous, but it's not yet Nick Fuentes position. His position is, I don't know why you British are that bothered about the Holocaust, but he's not actually in favor of it, which is the Fuentes position driving a wedge between those two things, making Tucker Carlson feel he can go that far, but he can't go as far. He can endorse a lot of cranks, but not Nick Fuentesis. That is valuable and I think has been achieved by his interview with Fuentes. Your interview with both of them.

Piers Morgan (67:19)

I just had a panel discussion about it where one of the panelists argued quite strongly, I shouldn't have platformed him at all, that actually all you end up doing is helping him grow his movement.

Danny Finkelstein (67:31)

I think that, you know, you and I have to recognise, in our different media ways, we don't any longer, because of the way the Internet works, have the power just to say, well, let's no one listen to Nick Fuentes. He's got a platform. It's ridiculous to argue he hasn't got a platform.

Piers Morgan (67:45)

I agree.

Danny Finkelstein (67:45)

And I took the view, you know, I know, you know, some people said this to you before you did the interview. That was not my position and I think it was vindicated by what happened. It's important to expose what he thinks. We've all got to understand it. It's an important part of the development of the right in the United States, and that may come also to Britain as well. We've got to understand it, we've got to listen to it carefully, see what its weak points are. So one of his clear weak points is cut off all women from supporting his position. Right, well, that's half the population start off with. So he's making mistakes and making him talk on the record in a challenging way is part of forcing him to do that. Of course he can't see it. If he could see it, he wouldn't have made it, but he couldn't see it.

Piers Morgan (68:32)

Well, Danny, thank you. I hope it wasn't too bruising an experience to get involved in anything. You know, I've had a lot of backlash to stuff over the years. This hasn't been the worst. I've had worse, but it's been pretty ferocious. I mean, if you get.

Danny Finkelstein (68:45)

It's quite bracing.

Piers Morgan (68:46)

You enter the world of Nick Fuentes and his groiper army. It's nasty. It's a nasty little suspect. And you gotta have pretty broad shoulders to deal with it. You have. I have. So we'll continue to do our jobs.

Danny Finkelstein (68:59)

We will.

Piers Morgan (68:59)

Thank you very much. Piers Morgan R sensen is proudly independent. The only boss around here is me. If you enjoy our show, we ask for only one simple thing. Hit subscribe on YouTube and follow Piers Morgan uncensored on Spotify and Apple podcasts. And in return, we will continue our mission to inform, irritate and entertain. And we'll do it all for free. Independent, uncensored media has never been more critical, and we couldn't do it without you.

Warren Smith (69:35)

And Doug.

Piers Morgan (69:36)

Here we have the Limu emu in its natural habitat, helping people customize their car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual. Fascinating. It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug Limu.

Nick Fuentes (69:51)

Is that guy with the binoculars watching us.

Piers Morgan (69:53)

Cut the camera. They see us. Only pay for what you need@liberty mutual.com.

Glenn Greenwald (70:00)

Savings Ferry unwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance Company and affiliates.

Piers Morgan (70:02)

Excludes Massachusetts.