‘I’m NOT Hiding ANYTHING!’ Egyptologist Zahi Hawass Grilled On Pyramids By Experts

Summary

Podcast Summary: “I’m NOT Hiding ANYTHING!” Egyptologist Zahi Hawass Grilled On Pyramids By Experts

Piers Morgan Uncensored | May 15, 2026

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Episode Overview

This riveting episode sees Piers Morgan host a robust, often heated, but ultimately respectful debate on the enduring mysteries of Egypt’s pyramids. Dr. Zahi Hawass, Egypt’s preeminent archaeologist and defender of orthodox Egyptology, faces questions and challenges from three alternative researchers—Michael Button, Jimmy Corsetti, and Timothy Alberino. The conversation covers new discoveries in Giza, the controversy over artifact repatriation, transparency in Egyptology, and the persistent allure of alternative theories surrounding the pyramids' origins and secrets.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Zahi Hawass: Career and Achievements

• Piers Morgan’s Introduction (00:41): Frames Dr. Hawass as both a “cultural icon” and a “gatekeeper,” whose critics accuse him of suppressing alternative views.
• Dr. Hawass’ Credentials (01:52): “There are two people that you can talk to. Mark Lehner...and myself. Me and Mark worked for the last 50 years. We excavated every piece of sand at Giza...” (Dr. Zahi Hawass)
• Hawass and Lehner have published a comprehensive, thousand-page book on Giza.

2. The Pyramids: Scale, Construction, and Mystique

• 118–138 pyramids in Egypt; Hawass asserts there are exactly 120 dating from Dynasty 3 to Dynasty 18 (02:46).
• The Unique Stones of Giza (02:59): Giza’s three pyramids are unique because they’re built on the plateau’s best limestone.
• Hawass’ Obsession (05:01): “I spent my life working and writing and defending and talking about it and lecturing. I always base what I say on evidence.” (Dr. Hawass)
• On the Great Pyramid’s Impact (04:18): “You will never believe that it was built by human beings.”

3. The Grand Egyptian Museum

• Opened in November 2025 at a cost of $2 billion (05:52).
• Houses the full Tutankhamun collection and over 5,000 artifacts.
• Emotional Reactions (08:01): “I could see people who go in front of the golden mask, they cry.” (Dr. Hawass)
• 15,000 daily visitors since opening (07:21).

4. Controversy Over Artifacts Taken Abroad

• Calls for Repatriation: Hawass leads a campaign to return the bust of Nefertiti (Berlin), the Rosetta Stone (London), and the Dendera Zodiac (Paris).
• On Imperialism (11:15): “Museums that continue to display these artifacts...only continue to participate in imperialism.” (Dr. Hawass)
• Hawass clarifies he isn’t seeking the return of all artifacts—just the three iconic ones (12:13).
• Rosetta Stone’s Value: “You never make a value for...any objects. It’s priceless.” (14:18)

5. New Pyramid Discoveries and Ongoing Research

• Major Find Announced (15:52): A new 30-meter corridor (void) and a sealed door inside Khufu’s Pyramid were discovered using advanced scanning/robotic technology.
• Potential Significance (16:49): Hawass believes the real burial chamber of Khufu could still be hidden, linked to the newly discovered void.
• Planned Investigation: An English team will return in June 2026 to explore the void with non-invasive techniques (17:28).
• Ultimate Ambition (18:33): “I would like to end my career by revealing the mystery and the secret of the Great Pyramid of Khufu.”

6. Transparency, Secrecy, and Alternative Theories

• Accusation of Secrecy: Hawass repeatedly denies accusations of hiding evidence (22:14, 31:21, 41:45, 51:01).
  • “How can I hide anything? You can't. I'm not working alone.” (18:45)
• Publishing & Peer Review: Insists all discoveries are published scientifically.
  • “Everything we discover, we publish it in a scientific article or in a book...It's not my problem that you don't really read this.” (51:01)
• Admits he welcomes any credible, institution-backed researcher to the Giza Plateau (27:19).

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The Debate with Alternative Researchers

A. Michael Button’s Concerns (23:39–29:26)

• Subterranean City and Second Sphinx Claims: Pushes Hawass on the immediate dismissal of recent radar findings beneath Giza.
  • Hawass counters that radar used in the Italian study isn’t powerful enough to detect the depths claimed (26:23).
• Call for Open Inquiry: “Why have we not just dug down and then we could settle this?” (28:15)
• Hawass’ Defense: The Giza bedrock is solid; new technology can’t probe through 10 meters of solid rock (28:47).

B. Jimmy Corsetti’s Challenges (31:09–41:10)

• On Construction Techniques: Rejects the copper chisel and stone hammer explanation (31:48).
• Frustration with Locked Areas & Delayed Exploration: Notes it’s been nearly 10 years since the Void was found in the Great Pyramid without entry (35:27).
• The Osiris Shaft: Asks what was found. Hawass confirms the tomb and sarcophagus were empty, consistent with a symbolic burial (36:42).
• On Motivation for Secrecy: Corsetti floats the idea that not all findings fit the established narrative—leading to suppression, but ultimately doesn’t accuse Hawass of lying (38:43).

C. Timothy Alberino’s Biblical Framework and Technological Offer (41:26–47:51)

• States his team can scan up to 300ft beneath solid rock using drone-based ground-penetrating radar.
• Proposal: Requests official permission from Hawass to scan beneath Khafre’s pyramid.
  • Hawass is open: “...Take my email. Send me an email and send me the type of equipment that you can use...” (42:49)
• Links pyramid construction to pre-flood, “antediluvian” times and ancient traditions of a “Golden Age” or “Zep Tepi,” referencing gods and giants (43:58–46:20).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Transparency:
  • “We never hide anything. Everything we discover, we publish it...” (25:25, 51:01) — Dr. Zahi Hawass
• Hawass on Accusations:
  • “I used to get upset in the past, but now I really laugh...If you bring one evidence...we can talk, but you don’t tell me any evidence. You just say speculation.” (21:39; 21:46)
• On the Sphinx Mystery:
  • “Aliens can build something else, but not the pyramids.” (22:47) — Dr. Hawass
• On his Career Goal:
  • “I would like to end my career by revealing the mystery and the secret of the great pyramid Khufu. Really? This will make me...” (18:33) — Dr. Hawass
• On the Rosetta Stone:
  • “Rosetta stone is the icon of our Egyptian identity. It’s priceless...” (13:49–14:18) — Dr. Hawass

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:41 — Dr. Hawass’ introduction and reputation
• 02:46 — Number of pyramids in Egypt
• 05:52 — Grand Egyptian Museum and Tutankhamun Collection
• 09:00–13:00 — Debate over artifact repatriation, Rosetta Stone, and imperialism
• 15:52–17:39 — New Great Pyramid corridor discovery, plans for exploration
• 23:39–29:26 — Button presses on underground city/second sphinx; open access debate
• 31:09–41:10 — Corsetti on Egyptological “gatekeeping,” Osiris Shaft, Sphinx cavities
• 41:26–47:51 — Alberino’s antediluvian theory and offer of advanced radar scanning
• 47:51–51:01 — Was it humans who built the pyramids? The Sphinx’s date and major unanswered questions
• 53:43–54:39 — Hawass promises to host Morgan, guests (including Graham Hancock and Robbie Williams) in Egypt

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Tone & Atmosphere

The conversation is inquisitive, sometimes skeptical, but ultimately respectful and even jovial. Hawass is passionate, often defensive, but open to new technology and ideas from credentialed outsiders. The alternative theorists push for transparency, alternative narratives, and more public access to evidence, but none steadfastly accuse Hawass of deliberate deception. Piers Morgan acts as a moderating influence, balancing seriousness with humor.

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Conclusion: Consensus & Continuing Mysteries

• Dr. Hawass repeatedly emphasizes that everything discovered is published and open to peer review and that all credible researchers are welcome to propose studies at Giza.
• Alternative voices agree humans built the pyramids but remain fixated on what they see as inconsistencies, unanswered questions (e.g., unbelievable precision, gaps in historical record, possible earlier dating for the Sphinx), and a perceived lack of transparency in Egyptology.
• Collaborative Gesture: Hawass invites the alternative researchers and Piers Morgan’s team (and, possibly, Robbie Williams and Graham Hancock) to Egypt for further exploration and dialogue.
• Final Note: The spirit of scientific curiosity and debate remains alive, and the episode ends on a note of mutual respect and anticipation for future discoveries—especially the possible revealing of Khufu’s real tomb.

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“I can tell you for hours and answer all your questions, but there's one thing I want to assure all of you. We never hide anything.”
—Dr. Zahi Hawass (25:25; 51:01)

Transcript

[Michael Button]

Why are the pyramids so unbelievably mathematically precise that we probably couldn't even recreate it today without extremely modern machinery?

[Jimmy Corsetti]

The ascribed techniques for how the pyramids were allegedly constructed have been tested and debunked. I do not believe they were constructed with copper chisels and stone hammers.

[Timothy Alberino]

There were extraordinary things happening in the world before the great cataclysm. Certainly the ancient Egyptians believed in not just one great cataclysm, but several.

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

I can tell you for hours and answer all your questions, but there's one thing I want to assure all of you. We never hide anything. Everything we discover, we publish it in a scientific article or in a book.

[Jimmy Corsetti]

I want to circumstances.

[Piers Morgan]

Why would he lie? What would be the motivation for covering anything up? Dr. Zahi Hawass is a world renowned Egyptian archaeologist and a global authority on the great Pyramids. His many admirers consider him a cultural icon, a ferocious defender of of ancient antiquities, even a real life Indiana Jones. His critics, however, some of whom we'll hear from later, believe he's a gatekeeper wielding an academic iron fist to silence the myriad alternative theories about the pyramid's many mysteries. There was a huge response to his last appearance on Uncensored when I discovered he was here in London inaugurating the exhibit of Ramses at Battersea Power Station. Well, I had to invite him into my studio and I'm delighted to say that Dr. Zahi is here. Great to meet you.

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

Thank you. The same. I'm happy to see you.

[Piers Morgan]

It's great to meet you in person. You are whatever people think of you and like everyone at the top of their game, you attract praise and critics and jealousy and all sorts of things. You are by common consent, probably the greatest expert in the pyramids of Egypt. In the world, would you say? Say that's the reality.

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

I think if you talk about Giza and the Great Pyramid, there is two people that you can talk to. Mark Lehner, who's an American, and myself. Me and Mark worked for the last 50 years. We excavated every piece of sand at Giza and we published a great book by Timson Hudson.

[Piers Morgan]

A thousand pages.

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

A thousand pages, yeah. Explaining everything about Khufu pyramid and all the discoveries that we made at Giza Plateau and inside the Great Pyramid of Khufu.

[Michael Button]

Right.

[Piers Morgan]

So for viewers who come to this as sort of pyramid virgins, you don't know much about the pyramids or the history or whatever. There are approximately 118 to 138 identified pyramids in Egypt with counts Varying based on how archaeologists classify severely eroded or unfinished structures. On that, how many do you think there are?

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

Pyramids? Yes, we have exactly 120 pyramids. 120 of kings and queens from Dynasty 3 up to the New Kingdom, Dynasty 18.

[Piers Morgan]

Some of them are vast and some of them presumably are eroded.

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

You know why Giza pyramids are the best? Because Giza Plateau is a part of the Mukattam formation. It consists of three levels. The stones, level one and two are very bad stones. But level three is the best quality of stones that never seen in any site in Egypt. This was why the three pyramids at Giza are unique among all the other pyramids.

[Piers Morgan]

So yeah, so there are three Giza Plateau pyramids. They're the most famous.

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

Yes.

[Piers Morgan]

And the majority of the others are scattered across ancient sites across the Nile

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

because people doesn't see like the. The pyramids of Khufu's father are really the same size of the pyramid of Khufu. But people don't go to da shore because Dashur is away. But you know, I want to tell you one important thing. If you come to Egypt and I'm waiting to take you and you will stood in front of the great church.

[Piers Morgan]

Do you know who contacted me by the way, after our last interview, I got an email from an old friend of mine, Robbie Williams, the singer familiar with Robbie. Of course, he was watching and he said, I want to come with you to Egypt. We may have quite a star studded group.

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

Perfect. It would be great. Just tell me, we'll give you the red carpet. But I want to tell you, if you stood in front of the Great Pyramid.

[Piers Morgan]

Yes. Which I really want to do. I want to do this and you

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

look at it, you will never believe that it was built by human beings. No.

[Piers Morgan]

Well, that's what we're going to come to this because we've discussed it last time, but it is fascinating. So the Giza pyramids were constructed during the fourth dynasty of Egypt's Old Kingdom over a span of about 85 years. So roughly between 2600 BC and 2500 BC. And there are pyramids not exclusively in Egypt, but also Sudan, Mexico and a couple of other areas. But the key point about this is that the most majestic and magnificent are kind of in a way inexplicable are the Giza pyramids.

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

Yes.

[Piers Morgan]

And that's become your life's obsession. Would you accept the word obsession?

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

You know, I spent my life working and writing and defending and talking about it and lecturing. And I always base what I say on evidence. I never say something that I create. No, when I say anything about Khufu Pyramid, I always give evidence. And what we're going to come.

[Piers Morgan]

We're going to come to the Khufu Pyramid in particular, because there's been a new discovery concerning that. But let's start because since you last appeared on Uncensored, the main event in the world of Egyptology, for want of a better phrase, has been the opening of the Grand Egyptian Museum in Giza in November 2025. We're looking at some footage over here. It's the largest archaeological museum in the world, dedicated to a single civilization displayed together for the first time. It cost over a billion dollars.

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

Two billion dollars.

[Piers Morgan]

Two billion dollars.

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

Wow.

[Piers Morgan]

And odds are your creditors being the mastermind of this project. When you finally got to open this, what were you feeling?

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

You know, I have to tell you, the Grand Museum was really our dream is to show to the world that we are building a museum that nothing like it at all. You know, when I debate people about returning stolen artifacts, people used to tell me, you don't have good museums, you have bad museums. Why do we send you our artifacts back? I did a debate with the Oxford student and people said the same. But this is why we built this museum. We moved Ramsay II statue from the train station to receive everyone. We moved the boat, Khufu's boat, that located south of the Great Pyramid, to a small museum next to the Great Pyramid. 100 Statues of kings and queens and the most important, Artut an Khamun. More than 5,000 artifacts are shown in a beautiful way for the first time. And 12 galleries with more than 60.

[Piers Morgan]

What's been the reaction of people when they visit?

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

When we opened it, we had 43 kings, queens and president. And that was really a good message. Amazing to tell people that Egypt's safe. Yeah. And the second thing, that from the opening until Today, every day, 15,000 visitors.

[Piers Morgan]

Really?

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

Every single day, Every day. And we cannot take more than 15,000.

[Piers Morgan]

But that doesn't surprise me because the reaction we've had whenever we do the pyramids on this show is enormous. I mean, it takes me by surprise that the global fascination with these objects, these pieces of historic architecture is gigantic, isn't it?

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

It is. And also it has magic. Like if you come and look at an object with a beautiful display for the first time and in a grand museum like this and it's something fascinate everyone. I could see people who go in front of the golden mask, they cry.

[Piers Morgan]

Really?

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

They could not believe that they see a beautiful object like this, 11 kilos of gold. And this is why most of the visitors go and stood in front of the Golden Mosque of Tutankhamun.

[Piers Morgan]

The museum houses the world famous Tutankhamun collection. It was the British in the form of Howard Carter and Lord Carnarvon who were behind the discovery of Tutankhamun's tomb in 1922. And at the time and ever since, there have been lots of accusations that the evacuation was grave robbing and a kind of cultural colonization by the British. Do you believe that?

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

I do believe, but even I believe in that. But I do respect Howard Carter. Howard Carter was not educated, but he was a great man who educated himself and became, in my opinion, the best archaeologist of that time.

[Piers Morgan]

Really.

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

He excavated 5,398 objects in a beautiful way.

[Piers Morgan]

If they hadn't done what they did, would you have had this amazing part of your museum? So it is a kind of means.

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

It is because of Howard Carter. We can really thank him for that.

[Piers Morgan]

But you think it was a form of grave robbing, that it was immeasurable?

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

No, because Lord Carnarvon was a businessman and he wanted to make money. And this is why he was shocked when he found out that he cannot take any object from the tomb. And because the law say if you discover an intact tomb, you cannot take anything out of Egypt. And this made him to take lots of objects out of the tomb.

[Piers Morgan]

People said he was cursed as a result of it. Do you believe that?

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

No, no. But he came to Egypt because he was sick. The idea of the curse people created that because Lord Carnarvon gave exclusive rights to London Times.

[Piers Morgan]

Really?

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

And the other people in the press could not write anything. And this is why when he died, he. Five months after discovery, they created the idea of the curse of Tutankham.

[Piers Morgan]

You've set up the 1 million signature petition. This is to demand the return of three other great Egyptian artifacts back to the homeland of Egypt. The bust of Nefertiti, which is in Berlin. The Rosetta Stone in London and the Dendera Zodiac in Paris. And on the website you've written, when artifacts are removed from Egypt illegally and sold, the this only encourages and emboldens thieves. I'm sorry to say that museums that continue to display these artifacts and refuse to return them only continue to participate in imperialism and cannot be believed when they denounce it. I mean, they're strong words. I mean, I guess what they would say is, isn't the reality about ancient artifacts that they're scattered all over the world. A lot of them may have been acquired by slightly nefarious means hundreds of years ago or whatever it may be. Do we really want to apply today's morality law and so on to go back to, you know, ancient history in some cases and claim proprietorial rights? Because I would imagine what they. All those countries, Germany, the uk, France, they might say, well, hang on, if you're going to play that game, there will be some stuff in the Middle east that we want back. In other words, it never ends once you start. What do you say to that?

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

No, but listen, if you look at what happened in the past during imperialism, when the British occupied Egypt, look how they really, I mean, destroyed the country by taking the treasures out. Look at artifacts of the British Museum. I can tell you, you know Budge, he was a creator of that museum.

[Piers Morgan]

Yes.

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

Read what he wrote, how he took and objects out any papyri, one of the most important papyri. You know how he took it out of the country. It's a sad story. He, the papyri was in a store, he brought kebab to the guards and he began to eat with them and other people around him dug underneath. And they took the baby out. Yes. Then what I'm saying.

[Piers Morgan]

And that's now in the British Museum.

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

It is in the British Museum now. One of the most important artifacts. What I am saying, I'm not after every.

[Piers Morgan]

Do you want them to hand it back?

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

No, I'm not after. This is the story. I'm not after every artifacts back at all. What is in the British Museum? Stay. Okay, I am saying.

[Piers Morgan]

So why are you exercised about these particulars?

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

I am saying we need one artifact from the British Museum. Drusetta stone. Yes, it is the icon of. Of the Egyptian identity.

[Piers Morgan]

Was it worth the Rosetta stone?

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

It was found in a site called Rosetta near Alexandria. And it was written in two languages. The ancient Egyptian language, hieroglyphic and demotic and the Greek language. And chamblion was really the one who discovered.

[Piers Morgan]

What's his value now would you think?

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

The value. Yeah, the value. Because this is the icon of the Egyptian identity. What would it be? But I tell you something very important. When I came the first time to England here, I did two things. One, I took a taxi and I did visit the tomb of Howard Carter. And the second thing, I gave a talk at the British Museum. When I gave a quota at the British Museum at the end, they made a dinner for me and the director gave a speech and I stood up to give A speech. And I had some jokes. I said, listen, I'm the only one who can talk to the Ferris. While I was seated, Ramsay II came to me, said, zahi, I miss Egypt so much. I want to go back. It's cold. It's cold in London. And Thutbud III came and told me the same. But the two came back. I said, zahi, no, we're not going to go with you. We take Rosetta stone. Because Rosetta stone is the icon of our Egyptian identity. It became next day, boom in all the paper that Rosetta stone was in a dark area in the British Museum. Because I said what I said about

[Piers Morgan]

the now they put it center stage.

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

Became the most important thing.

[Piers Morgan]

What is it worth, do you think? No, it is, you were guessing, a value.

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

No, the value is what is considering because of that we know ancient Egypt because of that.

[Piers Morgan]

Can you put a modern day value on it?

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

You never make a value for. For antique, for any objects. It's priceless. These are priceless objects. And this why I really ask for one object to come back. I'm not after most of the objects in the British Museum at all or in any museum. I want the three objects to come back. And I will not stop.

[Piers Morgan]

You are sounding a bit like Indiana Jones now. How do you take that? Do you like that comparison?

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

It's not bad if the public loves someone and say things.

[Piers Morgan]

Have you ever met Harrison Ford?

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

We did projects together.

[Piers Morgan]

Really?

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

And you know, if we do this live TV in this coming November, I would like him to be the one to be beside me.

[Piers Morgan]

Really?

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

Yeah, Showing the whole world what we found inside the gate.

[Piers Morgan]

Does he know that you're known as the Indian? Yeah, of course.

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

Because George Lucas, when he came to Egypt, he came to do one thing. He said, I came here, I saw the Benavidez three times. I came here to ask you one question. Why your hat became more famous than Harrison Ford hat. And I told him my hat is the real archaeology hat. But the Harrison Ford hat is the fig one. And it's true, my hat now people sell it. And the money, really the money went for the construction of the children museum. And now for the hospital was concert. And there is a movie made about my life. It's shown now. It's called the man with the hat. And there is a book.

[Piers Morgan]

Why are you not wearing this hat?

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

I was thinking really to come and appear with you in this show with the hat.

[Piers Morgan]

Okay, save it for my trip next time. Now, at the end of last year you announced a new archaeological Discovery inside the pyramid of Khufu, one of the seven wonders of the ancient world. Utilizing advanced scanning and robotic technologies, researchers detected what appears to be. This is fascinating. Appears to be a 30 meter corridor leading to a sealed door within the pyramid. And it said that what is behind the door could change Egyptology forever. So the obvious question is, what do you think's behind the door?

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

No, not behind the door. We have the doors, we have the two voids, we have a corridor, we have amazing things that we found until now. I still believe that Khufu's real burial chamber is still hidden inside the pyramid. And this void has to do with this burial chamber.

[Piers Morgan]

So you think this will unlock that secret?

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

Exactly.

[Piers Morgan]

Really?

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

And this why I really believe in this coming month I have an English team working with me and we worked last year and this year, next month we are going to find out how can we find out and look what could be underneath this voids.

[Piers Morgan]

I mean, how hard is it to get behind a sealed door in a pyramid?

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

But now you have to know that new technology now is different. You do not need to drill anymore.

[Piers Morgan]

Right.

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

With this new technology, technology like ultrasound,

[Piers Morgan]

you can see through the stone, you

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

can see what's behind, you can see what's inside.

[Piers Morgan]

So when are you gonna do this?

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

We are going to work in June. The English team is coming with these new techniques and we're going to find out how exactly. We're going to find out what's inside. How can we look at this wall

[Piers Morgan]

and tell me, I mean, could Khufu's tomb then become bigger than say Tutankham?

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

Oh, look, Khufu ruled for 28 years. He was a great king. You know, he's a king. Really, That I really believe. I wrote a novel about Kufu because I.

[Piers Morgan]

How do you find the time for all this stuff?

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

You know, I am workaholic.

[Piers Morgan]

You have asleep.

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

I'm workaholic.

[Piers Morgan]

Are you seven days a week on pyramids?

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

No, six days.

[Piers Morgan]

What day do you have off?

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

Because they. I have a young granddaughter. I play with her on Friday.

[Piers Morgan]

Friday. But otherwise for 50 years you thought about nothing else but pyramids.

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

You know, I wrote about Khufu, perhaps books and articles and I didn't.

[Piers Morgan]

So how exciting would it be for you? Just on a personal level, if you do discover that behind this corridor and sealed door is Khufu's tomb, how would that make you feel?

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

I would like to end my career by revealing the mystery and the secret of the great pyramid Khufu. Really? This will make me that's the big one for you.

[Piers Morgan]

It's the Holy Grail.

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

And this can answer all the questions about. People think that I hide evidence about lost civilization. People accuse me all the time. But I say to people, how can I hide anything? You can't. I'm not working alone. There is a team around me. And this is why I want people to believe me and understand that as they want to reveal the secret of the pyramid, it's my role to do that for the world, not for them.

[Piers Morgan]

Would Khufu's tomb be a bigger Holy Grail discovery than Cleopatra's tomb?

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

Oh, Cleopatra would be nothing in front of Khufu.

[Piers Morgan]

Really?

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

The discovery of the tomb of Khufu,

[Piers Morgan]

maybe not to you, but to the wider world.

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

To the world, it's Khufu because this king ruled.

[Piers Morgan]

Yeah, but if you went down London today and asked 100 people, have you heard of Khufu or Cleopatra?

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

Cleopatra, of course.

[Piers Morgan]

But she'd be more famous.

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

I know.

[Piers Morgan]

So why would you position the discovery of Khufu's tomb above Cleopatra? Because I would say that globally, because

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

you will never discover the tomb of Cleopatra.

[Piers Morgan]

Why?

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

It's under the water.

[Piers Morgan]

How do you know?

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

Because we are researching in a temple for the tomb of Cleopatra for the last 20 years with Kathleen Martinez from the Dominican Republic, and we found nothing. And even diving now is Bill Bellard, who found Titanic. But we know that Cleopatra built a palace near the palace. There is a tomb and she was buried in this tomb that located under the water now.

[Piers Morgan]

So it'll never be discovered. It'll never be discovered even on the river, on the seabed.

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

And this is why I see. Is it a river or sea or the Mediterranean?

[Piers Morgan]

So the sea.

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

The sea.

[Piers Morgan]

So is it not possible that it could be discovered?

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

Many people took the pillars and blocks from the palace, but nothing discovered.

[Piers Morgan]

But even if they found that, you would say that Khufu's tomb would be a bigger discovery.

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

There is three discoverers. Could be the biggest that I'm waiting. One, the tomb of Queen Nefertiti in the Valley of the Kings. Number two, the tomb of Imhotep, the first architect who built the first pyramid of stone. And number three, the burial chamber of Khufu inside the Great Pyramid. This will be the most fascinating, important discovery on Earth.

[Piers Morgan]

Amazing. And is this why also that you want the bust of Nefertiti back from Berlin?

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

I want the Basel Virginity back because it was stolen.

[Piers Morgan]

Right.

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

It was taken out of Egypt by a German thief. His name is Burkhardt. It should Come back. And we are fighting for it to come back. And now when the petitions, the two petitions reach 1 million, I will start the fight.

[Piers Morgan]

When it comes to people who have, like, alternative views about the pyramids, Right. There's lots of people obsessed with them and they have strong opinions and strong views, and some of them don't like you and that you're a gatekeeper hiding everything away from them and so on. What do you feel about them collectively?

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

You know, I won't tell you. I used to get upset in the past, but now I really laugh.

[Piers Morgan]

Why?

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

Because I tell everyone, if you bring one evidence of anything you say, we can talk, but you don't tell me any evidence. You just say speculation. You say things. But on the other hand, I can tell you the evidence that they have.

[Piers Morgan]

And that's why, before I bring some of them in, are there big secrets that you know about the Egyptian pyramids that for whatever reason, you haven't shared with the world?

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

Never.

[Piers Morgan]

So you've revealed everything you know?

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

Last night, I talked about everything I found inside the Great Pyramid in front of 1000 English people. How can you hide anything?

[Piers Morgan]

There's nothing you're keeping back?

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

No, nothing. And it will never happen. Anything that we discover, we announce.

[Piers Morgan]

Donald Trump has said that, you know, he can't reveal all the files about UFOs and aliens because the world isn't ready to hear them.

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

Aliens can build something else, but not the pyramids.

[Piers Morgan]

Probably true. Okay. Well, as mentioned, the world of archaeology is one that invites a lot of people who have alternative theories about the ancient past. And for those who hold these views, Dr. Tsarhi's a controversial figure. So we've invited three of them to join us so they can debate some hot topics in this world of Egyptology. Michael Button is a YouTuber specializing in ancient mysteries. Jimmy Corsetti is an investigative researcher and host of Bright Insight. And Timothy Alberino is an author and explorer known as the rogue archaeologist. So a great lineup here of alternative Egyptologists, I guess, is how I would describe you all. So let me start, if I may, with you, Michael Button. I've got the great man here. What do you want to ask him?

[Michael Button]

Well, firstly, thanks for having me on, Piers and Zahi. It's a pleasure to meet you and to make your acquaintance. Look, Zahi, you just said that no one has come with any evidence whatsoever that can possibly say there's anything new to be found at the Giza Plateau or beneath the pyramids. But the simple fact is that in the last few years, the only major news stories that have come from the Giza Plateau and the pyramids is firstly, the story of the vast subterranean city beneath the Giza Plateau, and secondly, the recent story regarding the second sphinx. Now, look, nobody here is saying, I don't think any. Anyone on this panel would say that we have absolute proof of a vast subterranean city or of a second sphinx. But this idea that people can come with legitimate scientific data and bring it to the table, like the people who. The scientists who brought this data are credentialed scientists, they have been cited in scientific journals, and their technology has worked in other archaeological sites across the world. So the idea that actual scientists can come with actual data and bring it to the authorities and just be immediately dismissed without any kind of discussion, I think is quite weird because, I mean, I actually have a quote from you, Zahi, that you said on the day after the team came with the SAR topography results beneath the pyramids. And you said the claim of using radar inside the pyramid is false and the techniques employed are neither scientifically approved nor validated. But this was literally the day after the results had come out. And I don't see any way that you could have gone through the data and, and spoke to the team or conducted any independent investigation to come to that conclusion. And if you just look all across the world right now, modern technology is revolutionizing archeology. Just look at the Amazon rainforest where Lidar has discovered vast cities hidden beneath the current canopy, vast geometric earthworks that nobody knew existed until just a few years ago. That was always the classic lost civilization hypothesis.

[Piers Morgan]

Let me give him a chance to respond. And just for viewers who may not have understood, I won't. Just one sec. I just want to point out that in relation to the sphinx comment you made that last month, Italian researchers claimed they might have found signs of a sphinx located beneath the pyramids of Giza, suggesting the existence of a sprawling subterranean citadel. The radar engineer, Filippo Blondy said there is something very huge that we're measuring beneath the Giza plateau. On his own podcast, Michael Button, you said if this is true, it could change everything we know about ancient Egypt. So, Dr. Zahi, your response to that story and also to the wider point that Michael makes, which is all this stuff's being discovered all the time. How are you so certain that this isn't lurking beneath the pyramids yet?

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

Now, there are three points I would like to discuss. Number one, about the discovery that was claimed by the two Italians underneath the second pyramid of Kiefern. They said 60 meters underneath the second pyramid, there is eight pillars and 1,000 meter. There is a whole city. Now those scientists, before they should announce this, they should come to discuss it with us, to sit with Egyptologists and discuss it. If it's true, we'll announce it. We cannot deny anything like this. But what I said, they published that they used tomographic radar, and tomographic radar can show only 6, 15 meters under the ground. Only the second thing about the Sphinx. This theory is published recently, but it is published 20 years ago again. And they sit south of the recent Sphinx. There is another one and this area. I want you to come. Come, I will take you. We have. This has been excavated completely to the solid rock. There is no one single place in this area can accommodate a second sphinx. And now the question is, why do we have a second sphinx? There is no reason to do that. The third point for you. We welcome anyone who comes from a university or a museum, a scientist. Someone should be connected with a scientific institution. Welcome to come and do any research. We have the permanent committee that permit people to work. But you have to be connected with an institution.

[Piers Morgan]

Okay, Michael, just for the record, have you been to the pyramids?

[Michael Button]

I have not been to the pyramids and I'm hoping to. And I just want to state that I do not necessarily agree with the findings of these scientists. My broader point is that the data that they presented was just immediately rejected without any kind of proper investigation, without any kind of digging into the Giza Plateau. Like, why have we not just dug down? And then we could settle this argument once and for all. Because it seems that we're all here discussing this, and I haven't even been to Egypt. And we could just settle this straight away by digging into the Giza Plateau and confirming this is true.

[Piers Morgan]

Why can't we just dig down and find out?

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

I know you know it's the solid rock. The second pyramid, the base is 10 meters of solid rock. How can you look what's underneath a solid rock?

[Piers Morgan]

In relation earlier to this, you know, this hidden corridor and sealed door stuff. You said there's now technology. That means you don't need to drill. So is there not technology?

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

But you cannot go through 10 meters.

[Piers Morgan]

You can't.

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

You can't. But tell me if any scientist can look underneath. Welcome.

[Piers Morgan]

So you have no problem with people at all?

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

No problem at all on that?

[Piers Morgan]

Okay.

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

Giza Plateau is open to any scientists who really can do any investigation.

[Piers Morgan]

Okay, let me bring in Jimmy Corsetti. Welcome to you, Jimmy. You're an investigative researcher, and after our Last conversation with Zahi, there were lots of comments that kind of flooded in here. Moshe said there are gatekeepers at the top of every industry that will keep anybody they can below them under any circumstance. Ali El Sayed as an Egyptian, I reject Zahi as a spokesperson for our history. The pyramids construction remains a mystery. Doug Lynch I love how traditional Egyptian scientists are firmly convinced the Egyptians built the pyramids and yet not a single one can tell us how they did it. And K. Maharam said after years of research and excavation, Zahi Hawass discovered the pyramids were built in his honor, which made me chuckle. But what is your. You've got the great man sitting here. I think he is a great man, certainly one as he, on his own admission, one of the two great experts of this in the world. I have to say that having finally come face to face with this monster, as some people in the alternative world view him, I see a guy who's not only incredibly expert in the pyramids, has written a thousand page book about it, was modest enough to say there's another guy out there, an American who is as expert as he is, but also is so palpably excited by the idea of new discovery and detail what that could be, you know, this new tomb that could be uncovered. That isn't the kind of reaction, if I'm honest, Jimmy, as somebody that I get the feeling is trying to hide things. So we. Why is the alternative community so fixated on the fact that this guy is some kind of controlling gatekeeper monster who doesn't want anyone to know anything?

[Jimmy Corsetti]

Well, let me first say, Piers, nice to see you again. Thank you for having me on. And actually we had all done a podcast or an interview together last July where I got to meet Zahi and chat with him here. And nice to see you again, Zahi. And I want to apologize to you. I interrupted you a few times.

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

Thank you.

[Jimmy Corsetti]

Last July. I meant no disrespect to you and I certainly do not think that you're a monster, Zahi, whatsoever. In fact, I think that you're a good man and I think that most of this spreads from and myself as a conspiracy theorist, but I consider myself more level headed. Like for example, I do not think that the pyramids were built by aliens.

[Piers Morgan]

I think do you believe they were built by humans? Just for the record, Yes, I do.

[Jimmy Corsetti]

I think that humans, if we were to get a time machine and go back and snatch some people up from say the 18th century, bring them today and fly them over New York City or London they might think they're on a different planet. I think that what human beings are capable of is, you know, the sky's the limit. There's nothing, anything that we can conceive of we can do so. No, I do believe it was humans. However, I think that they were far more advanced than what we were taught in school. The ascribed techniques for how the pyramids were allegedly constructed have been tested and debunked. I do not believe they were constructed with copper chisels and stone hammers. There's other mysteries. For example how they transported 1000 metric ton statues hundreds of miles. But to answer your question, I think it comes from transparency. There have been examples where the public has felt that there that things weren't done on the up and up. For example, exploring cavities below the Sphinx. Back in 2009, Zahi Iwas and Dr. Lehner had drilled down to explore the water table under the Sphinx's left wing paw and he said there was nothing down there. However, photos were never released to the public. I also want to point out that when we had our conversation Last July of 2025 Zahi, you had mentioned that the Great Pyramid void would be explored by the end of the year. And then that came and went and still hasn't happened. Now you're saying that they're going to explore it in June. So just to clarify, will they be drilling inside? I understand you had mentioned techniques to explore without drilling. Will we be going in in some capacity?

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

Now first I have to answer the first question that you asked about that the what we found in front of the sinks that's not available to the public. This is not true. We found four tunnels under the sinks and it's published in an article, scientific article, secret tunnels under the sinks, number one. Number two, when I found out the rise of the water table I brought a team from Ken University and we drilled 32 drilling underneath the Sphinx and we found nothing. The Sphinx is a solid rock. All what I'm telling you now published in our book to the public. You can buy this book published by Tim Session and read about what we found underneath the Sphinx about. I want you to know archeology is not really something that you have to go tomorrow and open this. You have to study. I'm working now with a team from England and we have also a team from France and team from Japan. All of us are really trying to reveal the secret of the Great Pyramid and to announce anything that we found. The team that working with me until now, they cannot find a way of how can we found what could be inside the 30 meters void or the other void in the second chamber or the corridor. Now they're coming in June. We'll try again then. We will always try with the new techniques that we have now, like ultrasound, infrared, muons. All these new techniques can really reveal all these voids.

[Piers Morgan]

And Jimmy, have you been to the pyramids?

[Jimmy Corsetti]

Yes, I've been three times.

[Piers Morgan]

And when you get there, I mean, do you feel the same frustration that you feel like you're not being told the truth about stuff, or do you accept that the monumental scale of these pyramids is such that it's a very complex thing?

[Jimmy Corsetti]

Well, I will say that there are a lot of locked gates in Giza. There's most of Giza you're not even allowed to explore. I will say though, that as far as taking time to analyze a potential discovery, this void within the Great Pyramid was identified in late 2016, and the results were formally published in a journal in 2017. So we're talking 10 years ago now, and we still haven't gone inside.

[Piers Morgan]

And you have a particular issue, I think, with the. The tomb of the Osiris mummy. So for those who are not familiar.

[Jimmy Corsetti]

Yeah, of Osiris, Tomb of Osiris.

[Piers Morgan]

Osiris mummy. So explain what that is and what your issue with it is.

[Jimmy Corsetti]

Okay, so Zahi, back in, I believe it was 1999, you did a fox special where you had went down into the Osiris shaft. And at that time you were in the process of excavating the tomb that's on the third level down. And you said that you believed at that time that it was the tomb of the Egyptian God Osiris. And then nothing was ever released to the public again after that. I never received any type of information regarding who the mummy was, what the mummy was. It just that was it. So I guess my question for Zahi, I'd very much like to know is what did you find inside that sarcophagus and what they were getting.

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

When I opened the sarcophagus, it was completely empty. Because Osiris is a myth. He's the one who controlled the underground tunnels at Giza. Because Giza and this why there is no mummy that we found. And all of this we published, we published that this is the tomb of symbolic burial of the tomb of Osiris, who control the underground tunnels at Giza Plateau. But there is no mummy. This is the first time I hear about a mummy found in the sarcophagus. But if you want to Know about what we found in details. I published an article in a. In a book dedicated to David o' Connor from University of Pennsylvania, and it's written in our big book on Giza.

[Piers Morgan]

Okay, let me bring it up.

[Jimmy Corsetti]

Odd that that sarcophagus was empty. I mean, and I also, you know, I want to circle back.

[Piers Morgan]

Why would he. But why would he, why would he lie? What would be the motivation for covering anything up?

[Jimmy Corsetti]

Maybe that they're, you know, you could say that what they found in there wasn't what they expected it to be. I mean, I find it very.

[Piers Morgan]

What do you think it is? Well, what could it be thousands of years later? I mean, what. No.

[Jimmy Corsetti]

Why. Here's a question. Here's an important question for everyone to consider. The ancient Egyptians dug out the Osiris shaft, which extends approximately 100ft under the ground. They had this sophisticated tomb with four large obelisks or pillars surrounding it with a moat. You should look at pictures of this. It's fascinating. And all of that with this, what, 50, 60 ton sarcophagus. The lid itself, I believe, was 10 or 15 tons. All for nothing. All for a complete empty burial. It's just like.

[Piers Morgan]

Yeah, but again. Yeah, but Jimmy, again I come back to the central question. What is in it for Zahi to lie or to cover this up? Why would he. There's no one alive who's going to contradict anything that comes out. It's like this would just be a matter of historical artifact fact. I mean, the idea that they would find something incredible and then just not tell us, I just think it doesn't

[Jimmy Corsetti]

make sense unless it up. And I agree with you, and I'm not accusing Zahi of lying about this. I believe him that the sarcophagus was found empty. I don't think that he's lying about that. I'd say the only motivation that I could think of, or the main motivation I should say, would be that it upends the narrative of Egyptian history, that potentially what they found in it dates back far older. Now, with that being said, again, why,

[Piers Morgan]

why would, why would I. If that was true, why would he not view it with the same incredible excitement and enthusiasm he's been talking about potentially discovering the tomb of Khufu, for example? I mean, I don't detect from him a need to suppress stuff. I detect the opposite. And yet you guys are all out there going, he knows stuff. He's not being clean with us. And I'm like, I'm not really sure where you get this from or what his motivation would be.

[Jimmy Corsetti]

I could give you an example. So if you were to go to my X or Instagram account, I uploaded a video I had made four years ago where discussing where Zahia was explored the alleged tunnels and chambers under the Sphinx and claiming that there's nothing there. However, he never mentioned that there was nothing inside of the Sphinx. And thankfully for a couple intrepid fellows that broke the rules in Egypt and climbed under this area under the Sphinx themselves and they climbed up in it. And you can see this boarded off cavity, this tunnel that was not described at all in Zahi's findings. You can't find any pictures of this boarded up shaft as well.

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

But it does exist in the book. Zoe, it is not true. If you go to the book you will find a photograph of all the four tunnels that we found inside the Sphinx. And we discovered inside these tunnels. Buttery in situ date these tunnels to 500 B.C. as we think today there is something hidden underneath the Sphinx. The Egyptian in the late period thought the same and they dug and they found nothing. And all this. Go to my book and look at these tunnels. The article is called Tunnels under the Sphinx. I explained in details all the dimensions of each tunnel and what we found inside. Then we are not really hiding anything. It's you because maybe you do not have access to Egyptology library, but go to the British Museum and look for Ziah Aww's publication on the Sphinx. And you will read what we found.

[Piers Morgan]

I suspect you'll sell a few copies after this.

[Jimmy Corsetti]

There's a separate.

[Piers Morgan]

Hang on one sec, Jimmy. I want to bring in our last guest who's been very patient. Timothy Auburno, author and explorer known as the rogue archaeologist. So, rogue archaeologist, you have your chance to talk directly to Zahi. What would you like to ask him?

[Timothy Alberino]

Well, first of all, I'm certainly not an archaeologist, rogue or otherwise.

[Piers Morgan]

How would you describe this?

[Timothy Alberino]

I would like to make it. I'm a investigative researcher. I would like to make a proposition.

[Piers Morgan]

So you're not known as a rogue archaeologist, Just to be clear.

[Timothy Alberino]

I've been called that, but I just want to make people. I want to make it clear that I'm not a lettered archaeologist.

[Piers Morgan]

Okay.

[Timothy Alberino]

But I would like to make a proposition to Mr. Hawass here on your program, for whom I have a great deal of respect, by the way.

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

Thank you.

[Timothy Alberino]

My team is in possession of state of the art ground penetrating radar. And it operates off of a drone platform. And we can penetrate 300ft beneath the surface of the earth. We could penetrate through solid rock with this technology. We've used it to great effect in other places in the world, including in Peru, where we scanned a pyramid, the Chongos Pyramid, and we discovered some massive underground tunnels, apparently artificial. So would you be willing to facilitate me and my team to come to the Pyramid of Khafre to fly it around the pyramid and to do a scan and to see if we can either validate or invalidate this idea of this colossal megastructure under the pyramid?

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

Okay. One thing I need from you, you know, from Beir's assistant. Take my email. Send me an email and send me the type of equipment that you can use. I will send it to Sean, who's the head of my team. And if we do not have. Will be fantastic to have your equipment to be working in the second pyramid. But you have to know this takes time to apply and security and all this kind of. But I would be happy to cooperate and talk to you and find out if these techniques. You have it, and we don't have it. Great.

[Piers Morgan]

I think this is great. So, yeah, email him. If they are not familiar with this particular technology, then it looks like Zahi's up for giving it a go, which is great. Very good. And, Timothy, just. I think you also have a particular sort of approach on this, that you tell the story of ancient archaeology, albeit your caveat that you're not an expert archaeologist in that sense, within a biblical framework. How do the pyramids tie into that, you ask me? Well, I'm not. Timothy.

[Timothy Alberino]

I'm not really sure who built the pyramids. I certainly do not believe that aliens built the pyramids. I do suspect, though, that they correlate to the global system of megalithic complexes that are found around the world, many of which I believe were built in the antediluvian world during the time which is variously described as the Golden Age by the ancients or referred to as Zep Tepi by the dynastic Egyptians. Zep Tepi, meaning the first time, and this is the ubiquitous testimony of our ancient antecedents that there was a time before the great cataclysm when the gods were dwelling among men and were imparting to them the arts of civilization. Everybody all around the world have traditions to this effect, especially in the ancient near east, ancient Egypt, obviously, the ancient Mesopotamians, the Phoenicians, the Greeks, the Romans. In Hebrew cosmology, these beings are known as the Watchers. The ancient Mesopotamian tradition calls them the Apkallu. So you have this ancient witness again from our Antecedents, Our antecedents, rather, saying that the gods were dwelling on earth. Whoever these gods were, in some cases they were copulating with human women who were pro generating demigods, in some cases giants. And that there were extraordinary things happening in the world before the great cataclysm. Certainly the ancient Egyptians believed in not just one great cataclysm, but several. We're all very much familiar with the biblical account of the flood, of the Noahic flood, which I believe is true. I think evidence does point to the idea that civilization didn't begin with the ancient Egyptians or the ancient Mesopotamians. It re began. It was a restart of civilization in the aftermath.

[Piers Morgan]

So to be clear, Timothy, cataclysm, what you're saying is that you don't believe they were built by ordinary humans?

[Timothy Alberino]

I'm not sure who built the pyramids. I don't know. I think it's possible that these megastructures fall into the same category and timeframe as some of the other megalithic structures around the world, which I do believe are antediluvian, maybe going back to, you know, circa.

[Piers Morgan]

Explain what you mean by that. Sorry? For a native like me.

[Timothy Alberino]

What do you mean by the antediluvian?

[Piers Morgan]

Antediluvian?

[Timothy Alberino]

Yeah, I mean the world before the flood. The world before the Noah flood.

[Piers Morgan]

So are you implying by saying that then that it could be non human construction?

[Timothy Alberino]

It could be. It could be, you know, I mean again, the Mesopotamians attributed the arts of civilization to the Apkallu who were not human beings.

[Piers Morgan]

Okay, okay, well, let me bring in, let me bring in Zahee. What's your response to that?

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

I am not going to give you a lecture of why pyramids built by the ancient Egyptian. But I will give you one example. In 2017, a baby discovered called Dawadi al Jarf Babiri written in hieroglyphic and hieratic. It's a diary of someone. His name is Mir, an overseer of the workmen. He said I was hired by Khufu to work in his pyramid. Under me was 40 workmen, my immediate boss. His name is Didi. And I discovered west of the Great Pyramid the tomb of his boss Didi. He went to cut the white fine limestone mean the pyramid was finished. And he explained how they cut the stones. And they put the stones in a wooden in a cargo boat. And he take the boat to Giza Plateau. He stay overnight, he go again. The barbarian needs an hour to explore.

[Piers Morgan]

Do you have any doubt at all?

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

No human beings, no one single doubt with me. You're 100% sure, 100% sure that the ancient Egyptian built the pyramid. We have many evidence to prove that. But if pyramids built by aliens or anyone else, do we have anything found to prove that? The answer is no.

[Piers Morgan]

Let me just quickly ask the other two panel members. Michael, first, do you think humans built the pyramids?

[Michael Button]

I do think humans built the pyramids, but I don't think the real debate is whether the ancient Egyptians were incredible or sophisticated. They clearly were incredibly remarkable civilization. I think the question is all regarding their civilizational development. Why does the peak of sophistication appear right at the start with the old kingdom? And then why is it a slow trawl downwards into less sophisticated? Why do they forget how to build pyramids so well? Why are the pyramids so unbelievably mathematically precise that we probably couldn't even recreate it today without extremely modern machinery? Why are all these questions out there? Why there's so, so many things that don't make sense? Why do we not find any mummies within the Great Pyramid? Why are there no royal inscriptions or any inscriptions at all inside the Great Pyramid like we find in every other Egyptian tomb? There are so many mysteries, and I just think that we need to be more open to the fact that there are mysteries that we cannot answer. And stop certain.

[Piers Morgan]

What percentage certainty are you if Zahi's at 100%, what are you about humans?

[Michael Button]

That the Egyptians built the pyramids?

[Piers Morgan]

Yeah, the humans built them.

[Michael Button]

Oh, humans 100% or 99% of the humans built the pyramids.

[Piers Morgan]

Okay. And Jimmy, what would your percentage be?

[Jimmy Corsetti]

I'll go with 99% as well. But I want to say one thing. I'd be remiss if I didn't bring this up. Going back to our previous point involving why would anyone want to distort the truth of the narrative involving Ancient Egypt? And there is scientific evidence that dates the Great Sphinx back several thousand years earlier than it was and involves the water erosion around the limestone enclosure. This is something that Zahi was has rejected. However, anyone could take it upon themselves to look at what water erosion versus wind erosion does to limestone. And it's very, very apparent that the enclosure has water erosion, whereas the chest has wind erosion. And this is something that Zahi has rejected. However, the scientific data on this shows that the last time the Nile Delta region had significant rainfall was like 7,000 BC, well over 9,000 years ago. And as we all know, the Great Sphinx was found buried up to its neck in sand. For thousands of years. So this is tangible scientific evidence that dates back the Sphinx several thousand years older than the narrative. And I will say one last thing, which is that involving the exploration under the neath the paw, the ground penetrating radar identified that it is approximately 26ft by 40ft wide and approximately 10 meters or about 32 and a half feet deep. And photos like as you said, nothing. You found nothing down there. But why were photos not released to the public to show the nothing down there? Why can't we see what nothing looks like?

[Piers Morgan]

Okay, Zahi, your quick response.

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

I want to tell you all what has been said. That it's a mystery. We have an answer of everything that they said and everything we release the photos. You can go to this book. This book has everything that we're not in there. We are not hiding 2009. But the most important thing that all your doubts and all your questions, we have an answer to it. And Egypt, by the way, is not the Great Pyramid. Egypt is many other things. You have other pyramids, mummification, you have the Valley of the Kings, you have all this great civilization. It did not only show the Great Pyramid, only the Great Pyramid is one. And it is the national project. The three millions who lived in Egypt participated in making this pyramid. For the king to be a God, then I'm, you know, for the program. I can tell you for hours and answer all your questions. But there's one thing I want to assure all of you. We never hide anything. Everything we discover, we publish it in a scientific article or in a book. And all of this is accessible and people can look at it and read it. It's not my problem that you don't really read this. But if you want I can send you these articles. Take my email. I will be happy to answer all your questions by email. I will be happy to send you photographs. Anything we need, I'll be happy to send to you.

[Piers Morgan]

He does seem very approachable to me. So I think you should take him up on that. Finally.

[Jimmy Corsetti]

Absolutely.

[Piers Morgan]

Finally. Di, I had Graham Hancock on the show after our last interview. I've had him on a couple of times and he said this about you.

[Graham Hancock]

Zahi and I get on okay. In fact, we've had some misunderstandings in the past.

[Piers Morgan]

I mean, if I was to go out there cause he's invited me. Would he, if you could, would he let you come with me? Yes, I'm sure a fun trip. I'm sure it will.

[Graham Hancock]

What Zahi and I have come to is we've agreed to disagree there's too much mutual insulting going on in this world where archaeologists insult alternative researchers and alternative researchers insult archaeologists. Zahi and I have agreed that we will not insult each other personally anymore. Our disagreements will be purely on the basis of our interpretations. Are different interpretations, interpretations of the evidence. And I don't think Zahi is opposed to different interpretations of the evidence, but he is opposed to flimsy, badly thought out ideas.

[Piers Morgan]

So I guess the big question to end with Zahi is if I get Graham Hancock and Robbie Williams and a little gang of explorers and our own little Indiana Jones trip, Maybe some of the guys who've been on the show today and we all come out, you'll entertain us, you'll host us, will you?

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

I will host you completely. And I will give you the red carpet.

[Piers Morgan]

Lovely. And will I get some fantastic Egyptian food.

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

I will take you to one of the restaurants that has the best Egyptian food.

[Piers Morgan]

In that case, I'm sold.

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

And you will be my guest.

[Piers Morgan]

I will see you in Egypt. And I mean it. We're going to come. Thank you, Zay. What a pleasure to meet you.

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

Thank you.

[Piers Morgan]

Thank you very much. I'm a big admirer of your work. And thank you to all the guys who joined us and got a chance to ask you questions directly. It was very civilized, the conversation. It's a fascinating subject. Obviously there are lots of unanswered questions, but I get the sense from Zahi, if he could answer them, he would. He wants to find out everything like we do. And he's found out more about these pyramids probably than anyone alive. So we should thank him, thank you, salute you and hope you carry on. I want to be there when you open up that tomb of Cuckoo. And it's there.

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

Thank you.

[Piers Morgan]

That would be amazing. Right?

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

Of course, yeah.

[Piers Morgan]

Great to see you.

[Jimmy Corsetti]

One second.

[Dr. Zahi Hawass]

Sorry.

[Jimmy Corsetti]

Zahi. I just want to say, Zahi, as a conspiracy theorist, I can tell you that when you do finally drill into the Great Pyramid, what the skeptics are going to say is they're going to like, well, they already removed something ahead of time. You should consider having other people there, someone like myself that could say, hey, look, I was there witnessing when they opened this thing up and totally shameless.

[Piers Morgan]

But I admire the work. But by the way, there will be a queue and I'm first in it. So if there's any room for you after me, then good luck. But if that tomb's getting opened, I want to be there. Guys. Thank you all very much. I really appreciate it. Piers Morgan, unsensed is proudly independent. The only boss around here is me. If you enjoy our show, we ask for only one simple thing. Hit subscribe on YouTube and follow Piers Morgan uncensored on Spotify and and Apple podcasts. And in return, we will continue our mission to inform, irritate and entertain. And we'll do it all for free. Independent, uncensored media has never been more critical, and we couldn't do it without you.