‘Iran Has NO IDEA!’ Jocko Willink on Trump, War & Running For President + Bryan Johnson SHOCK

Summary

Podcast Summary

Podcast: Piers Morgan Uncensored
Episode: ‘Iran Has NO IDEA!’ Jocko Willink on Trump, War & Running For President + Bryan Johnson SHOCK
Date: July 17, 2026
Host: Piers Morgan
Guests: Bryan Johnson and Jocko Willink

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Episode Overview

This wide-ranging episode features two high-profile guests: tech entrepreneur and biohacker Bryan Johnson, and retired Navy SEAL, author, and leadership expert Jocko Willink. The episode is divided into two main interviews:

• Bryan Johnson discusses his battle with a chronic incurable disease, his controversial approach to measuring and publicizing intimate data, the normalization of health tracking, and personal philosophies about death and health.
• Jocko Willink provides military analysis of the ongoing Iran war, thoughts on Donald Trump's leadership, reflections on modern masculinity, mental resilience, discipline, and his personal approach to life, family, and leadership.

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Bryan Johnson: Biohacking, Sex Data & The Fight Against Death

[00:00–17:46] Major Discussion Points

Bryan’s Autoimmune Diagnosis and Health Journey

• Diagnosis Details: Johnson reveals his diagnosis of an incurable autoimmune disease affecting his stomach—but insists he is asymptomatic and the condition predates his biohacking regimen by decades.
  • "It's really a condition that hides. Millions of people have it. They don't know they have it..." (01:58)

Addressing Critics and Causality

• Johnson refutes claims his health issue is caused by his extreme routines:
  • “It traces back decades, so, no, it’s not attributable to what I’ve been doing over the past few years.” (03:56)

The Philosophy of “Don’t Die”

• Johnson wants to become the “first human don’t die prototype,” believing humanity might be on the cusp of defeating death.
  • “My job is to be the first human don't die prototype. Which means I identify everything that causes me to die and I remove that..." (05:02)

Sunlight, Skin, and Health Optimization

• Johnson's approach to sunlight is representative of his meticulous, data-driven philosophy—sun is good “in the right amount,” but too much causes measurable harm. (06:23)

The Kate Project and Sex Data Transparency

• Piers interrogates Johnson about his boundary-pushing habit of documenting and posting intimate data about himself and girlfriend Kate, leading to discussions on sex education, taboos, and physical intimacy as measurable science.
  • Notable Exchange:
    • Piers: “It’s not the most romantic terminology... producing and publishing her vaginal microbiome report just seems a little ungentlemanly.” (00:05/10:17)
    • Bryan: “We measure everything, whether it's sex, whether it's post sex, whether it's the vagina.” (00:00/09:41)
• Johnson explains anatomical specifics: e.g., women require 17 minutes of "warm up" for comfort and pleasure. (08:05)

Normalization of Intimate Health Data

• Johnson argues tracking vaginal health can help partners and is more honest and helpful than relying on pornography for sex education.
  • “The amount of interest that women have expressed on the vaginal microbiome, it was up 2,500%…” (10:35)

Family, Embarrassment & Generational Health Tracking

• Discusses publishing data about his and his son's (age 19) nighttime erections, reframing erections as health markers rather than purely sexual.
  • “Erections are a biomarker for health... If a man is not having nighttime erections, they're at 72% greater risk of a cardiac event in five years.” (11:59)
• Critics call this oversharing; Johnson sees it as pioneering future norm.

The Philosophy of Legacy, Death, and Public Reaction

• Johnson frames his persona as an “idea” challenging the inevitability of death—a social experiment to inspire others.
  • “I have become an idea. I'm no longer a person in people's minds. I represent this idea that death may no longer be inevitable.” (14:29)
• He is energized by criticism and sees public hate as a reflection of society’s own malaise.
  • “Hate is very similar [to a bucking colt]. People feel you. If you’re calm... they mirror that.” (16:10)

Notable Quotes

• “You want just the right amount [of sunlight].” (05:02)
• “These are the things we all care about. We care about intimacy... We want these things to go well.” (09:41)
• “Being a good father... you want your child to have the comfort to experiment.” (11:59)
• “I represent this idea that death may no longer be inevitable.” (14:29)

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Jocko Willink: War, Trump’s Leadership, Masculinity & Discipline

[17:48–54:11] Major Discussion Points

Presidential Ambitions & The State of Political Leadership

• Piers raises the idea of Jocko running for President; Jocko diplomatically declines:
  • "I certainly hope it doesn't come to that. I don't want to get involved in politics. That's not really my deal." (18:20)

Iran War Analysis & Trump’s 'Erratic' Tactics

• Willink describes war as inherently unpredictable; the military must respond flexibly (“OODA loop”—Observe, Orient, Decide, Act).
  • "War is completely and utterly unpredictable... The only thing you can do is make adjustments as to what you're seeing..." (19:43)
• Trump’s shifting strategy confuses not only US military but more importantly, the Iranian leadership—potentially a deliberate tactic.
  • “I bet [the Iranian leadership] are totally confused and have no idea what [Trump’s] gonna do next. That’s exactly where the President wants to keep them.” (24:17)

Iraq War, Middle East Policy & The Lessons of History

• Jocko reflects that the goal in Iraq was to develop a positive relationship; sees progress in recent US-Iraq relations.
  • “Even in 2004... we were fighting alongside Iraqi troops. To see this relationship grow is a very positive thing.” (26:56)

Risk of Middle East Escalation

• Willink doubts a largescale US ground invasion of Iran is likely or necessary.
  • “I don't think that's going to be necessary. I don't think they have any capability to require large number of ground forces going into Iran.” (30:13)
• He frames current US-Iran strategy as a form of “siege warfare.”

Combat Experience, Life Lessons & Legacy

• Reflects on Battle of Ramadi, camaraderie with British soldiers, and the impact of war on mindset and appreciation for freedom and life.
  • “Combat like that... makes people better. It makes you appreciate life more, appreciate freedom more...” (31:34)
• When asked “How would you like to be remembered?”: “I just hope my kids think I was a decent dad.” (53:55)

Masculinity, ‘Toxic’ Traits, and Raising Strong Kids

• Jocko believes any trait can become toxic when taken to extremes and emphasizes the value of balance.
  • “If you take any human trait of any kind and you take it to an extreme, it will become toxic.” (38:23)
• His children (especially daughters) are encouraged to be strong and self-reliant; all train in jiu-jitsu.

Looksmaxing, Internet Culture & Algorithm Manipulation

• Aware of the “looks maxing” trend, refuses to participate (“No, I am not.”).
• Warns young people about the dangers of mistaking virality for value:
  • “Just because you see something doesn't mean it's good for you. Doesn't mean it's healthy. It doesn't mean it's right.” (41:41)

Building Mental Resilience in Young People

• Advocates normalizing adversity and struggle, emphasizing that suffering and setbacks are universal.
  • “Life is hard. And it's not just hard for them, it's hard for everybody...” (44:10)
• Encourages parents to help kids understand that feeling pain after loss, failure, or insult is entirely normal—not a personal defect.

Discipline, Daily Routines & Health

• Jocko downplays “making your bed” (his wife is still in it when he wakes up) but insists some form of physical activity each morning is crucial for health and mindset.
  • “Wake up in the morning and do some kind of physical activity first thing, and it will make your entire life a little bit better.” (51:09)

Final Words on Legacy & Combat

• On combat movies: prefers the HBO series The Pacific; most influenced by Colonel David Hackworth.
• Legacy: “I just hope my kids think I was a decent dad.” (53:55)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Piers on Johnson’s transparency:
  “It’s not the most romantic terminology... producing and publishing her vaginal microbiome report just seems a little ungentlemanly.” (00:05/10:17)
• Jocko on Trump’s unpredictability:
  “I bet [the Iranians] are totally confused and have no idea what he's gonna do next. And my guess is that's exactly where the President wants to keep them.” (24:17)
• Johnson on death and legacy:
  “I have become an idea. I'm no longer a person in people's minds.” (14:29)
• Jocko on mental health and normalizing pain:
  “You're not alone. Everybody's been called names. Everybody's been dumped... These things happen.” (44:10)
• Jocko's parting wisdom:
  “Wake up in the morning and do some kind of physical activity first thing, and it will make your entire life a little bit better.” (51:09)
• On legacy:
  “I just hope my kids think I was a decent dad.” (53:55)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:00 – Bryan Johnson sex/biometrics intro & context, Piers’s critique
• 01:46 – Johnson discusses incurable autoimmune diagnosis
• 05:02 – Sunlight, biohacking priorities, cultural attitudes
• 06:23 – “Kate Project,” measuring female biomarkers
• 08:05 – Measured approach to sex, intimacy as education
• 10:17 – The public's fascination with sexual health data
• 11:59 – Embarrassment and sharing son’s health data
• 14:29 – Philosophy of “don’t die,” society’s relationship to death
• 16:10 – Coping with criticism and public hate
• 17:48 – Jocko Willink introduction, running for President
• 19:43 – Analysis of the unpredictability of war, OODA loop
• 24:17 – Trump’s unpredictability as strategic advantage
• 26:56 – Reflections on the Iraq War’s aftermath
• 31:34 – The effects of combat and war on personal growth
• 38:23 – Modern masculinity, toxic traits, raising balanced children
• 44:10 – Mental resilience, adversity as universal
• 51:09 – Morning routines, physical activity, and health
• 53:55 – Personal legacy: “I just hope my kids think I was a decent dad.”

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Conclusion

This episode of Piers Morgan Uncensored dives into the cutting edge of tech-enabled health, bluntly honest self-tracking, societal taboos, and generational shifts with Bryan Johnson, before shifting to rigorous, candid analysis of modern warfare, leadership, and character with Jocko Willink. Both guests urge listeners to break with convention: whether by measuring the unmeasurable or refusing to accept easy answers about leadership, history, or masculinity. This is a bracing exploration of what it means to challenge norms—scientific, personal, and national—in the 21st century.

Transcript

[Brian Johnson]

We measure everything, whether it's sex, whether it's post sex, whether it's the vagina.

[Piers Morgan]

Critics would say the terminology isn't the most romantic, is it? I mean, having sex with a woman and then producing and publishing her vaginal microbiome report just seems a little ungentlemanly.

[Brian Johnson]

Brian In 2030, Brian Johnson is a normal dude right now. He may seem eccentric, he might seem out there, but the things I'm doing now will normalize.

[Jocko Willink]

I'll tell you who I imagine is much more troubled by the seemingly erratic behavior of Donald Trump. The Iranian leadership. I bet they have no idea what he's going to do next. That's exactly where the president wants to keep them. He is doing a good job of ensuring that Iran does not have a nuclear weapon.

[Piers Morgan]

Are you familiar with looks maxing? Millions of people around the world avidly follow the progress of biohacker Brian Johnson. He spends millions of dollars a year on a grueling regimen to reverse his biological age. After all, if he cracks the code, we might all live longer, maybe even forever. It was against this backdrop of universal fascination that Brian Johnson made global headlines last week by revealing he's fighting a chronic autoimmune disease which wrecks his stomach. People want to know if this condition has been exacerbated by his extraordinary lifestyle, whether that lifestyle could itself lead to a cure. It's not only Brian's health which has lately been the subject of rampant speculation. Brian's public commentary about his mystery new girlfriend has captured imaginations. I miss Kate so badly that I physically hurt, he posted recently. I feel more stressed. My emotions are stunted. My thoughts are cloudy. My mood is dipped. It just hurts everywhere. In a more cheerful update, he wrote on April 30, Just had sex with Kate. Good night, everyone. Well, I'm glad to say Brian Johnson joins me now. Brian, welcome back to Uncensored.

[Brian Johnson]

Hey, good to see you.

[Piers Morgan]

First of all, how are you? Let's deal with this autoimmune issue, which got a lot of attention last week. What is it? How serious is it? How worried are you about it?

[Brian Johnson]

Yeah, I feel great. I was actually asymptomatic. I had low levels of ferritin for the past 11 years. We were trying to fix it, and then I did a colonoscopy recently and we did some biopsies on my stomach and we found the diagnosis. So it wasn't the case that I was suffering severe symptoms of some type. It's really a condition that hides. Millions of people have it. They don't know they have it. So it can lead to difficulties of absorbing things like iron and B12. It can lead to the elimination of the stomach lining, which is where my stomach is eating itself, and then give rise to cancer risk. So on the scale of things, you know, it's not fatal, but it also is something you don't want to take lightly.

[Piers Morgan]

It's not curable. Right. Is that right?

[Brian Johnson]

That's right. It is an incurable disease.

[Piers Morgan]

And do you know the timeline for when this may have developed inside you? Is it from birth? Is it something from childhood, teenage years, adult life?

[Brian Johnson]

Well, the first clue I have is I got diagnosed with hypothyroidism when I was 21 years old. A routine blood draw showed I had elevated levels. I started taking medications to have my thyroid function properly, and that was managed well for 27 years. Then I had this colonoscopy, this bidirectional endoscopy that's both a colonoscopy and also a probe down the throat, looking at the entire intestinal tract. And the pieces now make sense because the thyroid and the stomach actually pair well together. When you have a problem with the thyroid, you sometimes have a problem with the stomach. So they kind of walk in the same world, the immunology. And so this has been something that is baking for the past 27 years. And a lot of people were trying to attribute this to my last five years. That's not the case. This has been going on for a very long time. And it's the case that I'm actually very fortunate that I have been taking such good care of myself, because had I not over the past five years, my situation could be very serious.

[Piers Morgan]

Do you know for a fact it's not been exacerbated by your regimen? I mean, or are you just surmising that

[Brian Johnson]

this is an issue with my. So we all have trillions of immune cells, and think of those immune cells. Each one is a soldier. I had a few of those soldiers go rogue. They mistakenly identified my tissue as a foreign attacker, like something should be neutralized. And so it's my immune system getting confused and traces back a decade. So, no, it's not attributable to what I've been doing over the past few years.

[Piers Morgan]

I've been fascinated by what you do for a long time. We've done interviews about it, and many people are following it with great interest because they wonder, are you going to reinvent the wheel about life and longevity and so on? As you know, the one thing I Always think, particularly now, right, so it's mid summer and I look pretty tanned because I've been to some hot places and it's been unusually hot in the uk. You look your normal, very pale self and people look at you and think, does he look that healthy really? I mean, where's the glow? Where's the sunshine? Do you ever go out in sunshine? Do you ever expose yourself to the rays? Or is that part of the regimen? You can't do that.

[Brian Johnson]

I mean the goal is don't die. And so the, my entire hypothesis of this project is we live in the most unique time to ever happen to the human race. And that is the first time in human history we may be the first generation who won't physically die. Now that is the craziest thought possible in this moment. Just like previous thoughts, where other things have been unimaginable. And so my job is to be the first human don't die prototype. Which means I identify everything that causes me to die and I remove that and I cause I then measure everything causes me to live and I improve that. And so going out in the sun, the sun is great. I love the sun. I, I'm out in the sun every day. Also UVA and UVB both cause skin damage. They both age your skin, they both cause DNA damage. And so the sun and the right amount, not too much, not too little. Now you can decide where you want to be on that spectrum. But the sun exposure of too much will lead to wrinkles, spots, sagginess, it degrades the quality of the skin. So of course we go to Asia, they're very aware of this. You hang out in North America, you can't get enough sun. So it's really a cultural product of how the society understands the sun. But it definitely cuts both ways. You want just the right amount.

[Piers Morgan]

We were hoping to talk to your other half, Kate, she's your business partner, co founder of the, of the whole Longevity Project. She conceived the idea of turning your personal health data into a public science experiment. She's 30. There's 18 year difference between you and. The reason we were interested is because you've been talking a lot on your social media platforms about her and about your sex life and everything else. We thought it'd be quite interesting to get her perspective, but at the last minute she pulled out. Why did she not want to do this?

[Brian Johnson]

So she actually has a publication doing a profile on her. The piece is coming out today. She promised them exclusivity, so it was a last minute recollection. She's saddened she couldn't be here. She wanted to be here. So maybe we can talk in the coming weeks. But yeah, she is. She begins her protocol. She's going to basically do the protocol I've done from a measurement perspective. She will become the most measured female in human history. I've been setting this up with her. We have an entire team on this project. We'll spend $2.6 million a year. We'll have up to 2,000 biomarkers, an incredible amount of data. It will be a fantastic project and I do, I love her deeply. She is my best friend and we fantastic time together in life.

[Piers Morgan]

Well, you certainly do. I mean in April you posted Just had sex with Kate. Good night everyone. You then followed up with here's the data. Sex triggered a post coital protactin surge driving vaginal tone 23% above baseline and holding it there for seven hours straight producing a 100% sleep score and 86% recovery. The body and mind are pretty happy with the situation. I mean, I suppose it's not the most romantic terminology I've heard in the history of sex. Brian, if I'm brutally honest with you, but you certainly look like you'd had a great night.

[Brian Johnson]

You know, I also wrote up some pretty descriptive encounters of our lovemaking. And I did it from a scientific perspective. And the observation there is, I mean I have three children, my oldest two boys. And I don't think that this generation that is being raised property has received sex education. What they do learn, they probably learn from porn. And that is not how we want to teach our children how to make love. And so very basic things. For example, the speed at which you move your hand over the person's body triggers either an arousal response or a different one. So there's specific things a person wants to do. For example, for a woman, a man can be ready to go within a minute, within 30 seconds. A woman requires a warm up period of 17 minutes for her body to actually be in a situation. 17 minutes 17 or 701 7. The woman's body needs to tent, the cervix needs to. Cervix needs to reposition itself so that when penetration happens there's not pain. Now these are things that are really important. And so a man or you know, the partner of this other woman needs to engage in proper foreplay to get the woman in the right place so that the sexual encounter is pleasurable.

[Piers Morgan]

So well, this is why. Right. So you posted in the same month in April Just gave Kate oral sex. Good night everyone. You then followed up with a microbiome biome score of her vagina. This is her vaginal microbiome report. 100, 100 score, top 1% of all vaginas. I mean, wow.

[Brian Johnson]

Yeah, you know, I'm fortunate. You know, Kate has been doing this protocol with me for the past couple years. We measure everything, whether it's sex, whether it's post sex, whether it's the vagina. We have a few measurements we'll be doing in the coming weeks which I think you'll find very interesting. I think maybe first in world for female but these are the topics that are taboo. But you know what, like these are the things we all care about. We care about love and we care about intimacy, we care about pleasure. We want these things to go well. And so we're providing a scientific frame for people to understand this versus the crass way of porn. It just is not the right way to learn how to do these things.

[Piers Morgan]

I mean, I guess critics would say again, it's the terminology isn't the most romantic, is it? I mean having sex with a woman and then producing and publishing her vaginal microbiome report, however good it may be, it just seems a little ungentlemanly.

[Brian Johnson]

Brian, you know, the amount of interest that women have expressed on the vaginal microbiome, it was up 2,500% when you look at Internet trends. And so this of course is every person is trying to main proper hygiene. Every person wants to be an attractive partner. And a lot of women are not sure how to manage the vaginal microbiome. It's a complicated thing. And so having a scientific way to methodically measure and then for a woman to know what to do is an important step. And so again these are all basic self care. This is partner care. This is basic hygiene that we should be having. We should learn as a society. In the same way I should know what sleep hygiene protocols are. I should know how to be a good lover and how to be a good partner.

[Piers Morgan]

I guess people would say, okay, but you have to tell us everything. Like last year you shared a pair of charts on X comparing the duration and quality of your nighttime erections with your own 19 year old sons. You wrote, his duration is 2 minutes longer than mine. Raise children to stand tall, be firm and be upright. And your son shared the post and wrote, I'm grateful for the way my dad has raised me, which I guess works on every level, but I've got three sons. The idea of publishing Details of our comparative erections. It wouldn't cross my mind in a gazillion light years. Is there no embarrassment back there?

[Brian Johnson]

You know, my son is amazing. I think he is fantastic. He has said yes to me and every, you know, when we first sat down for him to be in the documentary on Netflix of don't die, I said, look, you've got a decision you can make. We can keep you as a silent person here or you can be out there with me. Now, you're 16 now, it's going to be very hard to know what comes of publicity, but it's entirely your call. And we let that sit for weeks. And he came back and he said, I want in. I'm willing to do it. And he is such a fantastic person. He just rolls with everything. And so I would say a lot of people criticize that. And you know what I'd say this is being a good father. You want your child to have the comfort to experiment. Like, you know, erections. People think of it as a sexual thing. It is not. It is actually a biomarker for health. It represents physiological health, psychological health and cardiovascular health. If a man is not having nighttime erections, they're at 72% greater risk of a cardiac event in five years. Women, the same thing. They have the same arousal cycle of men. It's a non sexual thing. And so teaching people generally that a problem with your arousal cycle when you sleep is a problem of something else is going wrong with your body. Now, to teach my son that basic principle, I think is being a good father.

[Piers Morgan]

Right, but aren't you putting massive pressure on him when he gets into the dating pool?

[Brian Johnson]

But you know what? He performs under pressure.

[Piers Morgan]

Do you know what? I knew you were going to say that. So presumably he has a long, long string of very satisfied customers. Is that what you're saying?

[Brian Johnson]

You know what? He's out there proving his numbers and he's doing something like, you look at our time and place, Everything that we consider to be crazy. Normal was once crazy. And so, yes, people talk about this. But you know what I'd say, Piers in 2030, Brian Johnson is a normal dude right now. He may seem eccentric, he might seem out there, but the things I'm doing now will normalize. And you'll see in time, people will forget that they have this extreme response to me. These are things that are inevitable. People will measure the body routinely. We will want to know these things. Like, it will be kind of crazy. We'll have our heads in the sand that something could be wrong with our body and we won't know it.

[Piers Morgan]

The problem, well, it's not really a problem, but the reality of your situation is that should you just outlive everyone, of course it's been an unbelievably spectacular success. And everyone will go, I wish I'd done that. But if you were to suddenly die, I mean, God forbid, I'm not wishing this on you, obviously, but if you were to suddenly die, the project dies that second, and you won't even be around to know it failed.

[Brian Johnson]

Yeah. The thing is, this project, I have become an idea. I'm no longer a person in people's minds. I represent this idea that death may no longer be inevitable. Now, death has been the primary concern of humanity for all of time. It's the omnipresent concern of the human race. You look at everything we've done with religions and philosophy. It has been our primary objective of species to explain what is death. And our curiosities is our joy. It's our fear. And right now, in the early 21st century, I embody the philosophical and archetypal Persona of what is our relationship with death. And I'm challenging the status quo to saying it is no longer inevitable. So if I were to die, I'd argue that I would actually. That me as a concept would actually strengthen, that the movement here no longer depends upon my physical presence. Because the idea has been out there.

[Piers Morgan]

You wrote on excerpt the weekend upon hearing the news of your diagnosis. Many were saddened. However, joy dominated the commentary, and that is a symptom of our times. I've seen the same thing in. In the political arena after Lindsey Graham died, after Charlie Kurt was murdered. We see this kind of stuff all the time with public figures of any kind. I think it's a sick malaise in our society that people would feel that way. I don't want you to die. I want you to be healthy and live as long as you possibly can. I think what you're doing is a fascinating social experiment. And it may be the world is incredibly grateful to you. But it's, you know, the world has been driven by. By people who do stuff like you're doing, who experiment and try things and think differently. But how do you feel when you see a lot of people gleeful at the prospect that you might die and therefore Nana proved you wrong? You know what I mean?

[Brian Johnson]

Yeah. Energized, you know, I learned how to deal with hate. My grandfather used to break in his Colts with me. You know, like, thinking back, I didn't think of it during the time, but he'd walk me out. The colt would be there first time, strapping on a saddle, and he'd get up on the horse. And I learned there, when I walked up to the horse, the horse and I would be eyeing each other. And I learned that the horse would mirror my emotions, that if I felt internal anxiety or fear, I couldn't hide it. The horse would see right through me in fear and feel it. So I had to calm myself, feel confident and walk up to the horse and say, you're okay, I'm okay. I'd get up on the horse and it would be startling. They'd buck around and try to get me off. And I just would hold with some firmness like, I'm here to stay. If I fell off the horse, I get right back on and say, I'm here to stay. You're not getting rid of me. Hate is very similar. It's the people feel you. And if you're angry and you're anxious and you're fiery, they mirror it back. If you're calm and self deprecating and nice and charitable and generous, they also will mirror that to some capacity. So right now it's just a case of you're just riding a rhythm. And so, no, I find joy in it. This is not a surprise. This is how the human race is. I think this moment is hard. I think people are feeling hurt. I think they're sleep deprived, they're metabolically unwell. We have a pretty sick society, so I don't blame people. It's a pretty tough moment right now to be human.

[Piers Morgan]

Well, Brian, I wish you all the very best. I certainly only have joyful views of your attempt at longevity. If it works, I want a piece of the action. And I hope next time, talking of action, we talk to Kate as well. It'd be really interesting to her take on all this. But I appreciate you coming back on our censor. Thank you very much.

[Brian Johnson]

Good to see you.

[Piers Morgan]

Jocko Willink is a former US Navy seal, a best selling author, a podcasting titan, and a leadership expert with a lot to say about discipline. I last interviewed him a couple of years ago, after which a surprising number of you commented that Jocko should run for president. Clearly he didn't take up that advice yet. But as the Iran war rages on and Trump's approval ratings unravel, well, he might be wondering if he could do a better job after all. Jocko joins me now. Jocko, welcome back to Uncensored.

[Jocko Willink]

Thanks for Having me. Pierce, good to see you.

[Piers Morgan]

Would you ever run for president?

[Jocko Willink]

I certainly hope it doesn't come to that. I don't want to get involved in politics. That's not really my deal.

[Piers Morgan]

I mean, the reason I ask is the sort of old conventional route that people took, you know, coming through the political ranks and, you know, local level, state level, federal level, and so on. Then eventually you rack up enough experience that's all kind of gone out the window. Trump has blown all that to pieces, really, as a formula for becoming the most powerful person in America. There's nothing really to stop anyone. And you have a big profile, big YouTube following. You have a lot of attributes that many people, I think, would like to see in their commander in chief, never mind anything else.

[Jocko Willink]

Well, I guess thank you. But again, you're trying to put me. You're trying to volunteer me for a job that I don't particularly want, but thank you.

[Piers Morgan]

Let's get straight into the one thing I was really wanting to talk to you about, the Iran war, because I can't think of many people better qualified from their own extraordinary experience of combat and warfare to try and work out what is happening here, whether you think it's a good thing, a bad thing, how long it may take before we can answer that question, and so on. So, just, first of all, what is your view of where this war has got to four months in?

[Jocko Willink]

I think one of the most important things to remember, and I think this is where a lot of people, they really get caught up in going in the wrong direction, and that is war is completely and utterly unpredictable. And anytime in the past that we have had this idea that the way the war is going to unfold is what we think it will, and we've got a plan, we'll go execute the plan, and that's the way things will work. That has never worked out for us in the past. And so I think the idea of trying to predict exactly what's gonna happen with this particular war is also kind of a lost cause. I think you have to. Well, from the military perspective, there's something called an OODA loop, which is you observe what is happening, you orient yourself to what is going on and how you fit into it, and then eventually you decide what you're gonna do.

[Brian Johnson]

You.

[Jocko Willink]

You take an action. Once you take that action, the loop starts again, because you have to see what unfolds based on what you just did. And you do this over and over again, and you make constant small adjustments to try and see where you're Going and what adjustments you need to make, and eventually, hopefully, you get to a place where you want to be. And I think that's been interesting to see with this particular war. We've headed in one direction, stopped, gone back in another direction, stopped, gone back in other directions, gone to negotiations, had a cease fire, started bombing again, another ceasefire, more negotiations, and it seems like we're trying to figure out where this is gonna go. And again, I think that's actually the only thing you can do, is make adjustments as to what you're seeing real time in front of you.

[Piers Morgan]

But when your mission statement. And again, I can't think of anyone better qualified to answer this. When your mission statement and position seems to change on the whim of a day today, and when the original goals, which were supposed to be achieved very quickly, clearly weren't achieved, and when you get into a longer war of the kind that Donald Trump always vowed he wouldn't get into, you know, it looks to me, I've known him a long time, that he wants to get out of this, but doesn't quite know how to get out of it, because the Iranian regime remains there. It hasn't been taken out. The IRGC remain in control. The people haven't risen up in the way people were led to believe would probably happen. The Strait of Hormuz has become this secondary asymmetric warfare, if you like, with the Iranians pretty much controlling it to this day. Then you have all the attacks on the Gulf States and the damage that's done. You know, I look at it all, I think there's no enriched uranium has been handed over. There was the 12 day war last summer, which we were assured had put back the Iranian nuclear program decades. Well, then why are we attacking them eight months later to do exactly the same thing? None of it is making much sense to me. Does it make sense to you, or as somebody who, I imagine just from what I've read about, you had very clear mission goals when you had men serving under you because you understood that in warfare in particular, you've got to have that. You've got to know exactly what you're doing, how you're going to do it, what the exit strategy is and what victory looks like. I don't see any of that here.

[Jocko Willink]

Yeah. And I think from Trump's perspective, I would say he looks at things more like a business of, hey, the market is changing, the competitors are doing this. We need to make some adjustments based on what we're seeing in the market, real time. And that's what he's doing, and at least that's what it looks like to me, and making these adjustments, you know, again, entering negotiations and announcing that looks like we've got a deal, and then a couple days later launching bombs. That's what you do when you're trying to adapt to a situation that you're not exactly sure.

[Piers Morgan]

It's if you were serving, if you were serving, Jocko, if you were serving. And that was going on. And every single day, the Commander in Chief was posting stuff on social media, often completely contradicting what he said the day before. Is that not incredibly unsettling for the military? My brother was an army colonel in the British Army. I know. He says it's just like it's the ultimate nightmare when the guy at the top is out there telling everyone what he's going to do, then he doesn't do it, Then he does some of it. Then he says these guys are great. Then he says they've all got to be killed. Then he says he's going to blow up Iran next day, he wants to do a deal. And so on. This constant contradictory stream of consciousness. If you're actually serving and you're risking your life during all this, it's going to be a nightmare, isn't it?

[Jocko Willink]

I think it would definitely be challenging. And listen, you can talk to your brother that was in the army. The chain of command makes changes and it impacts. Impacts at such a high level across the board. You know, one thing, one day you think you're doing something, the next day you think you're doing something else. The things changes all the time in the military. We're used to that. But I'll tell you who I imagine is much more troubled by the seemingly erratic behavior of Donald Trump and that is the Iranian leadership. I bet they are totally confused and have no idea what he's gonna do next. And my guess is that's exactly where the President wants to keep them.

[Piers Morgan]

I've argued that they haven't learned the lesson of history. I was editor of a big newspaper in the UK in 2003 when the Iraq War was started. I opposed that war very vociferously. After, on the front page for days and weeks. Tony Blair was the British Prime Minister. I took him on over it. I felt it was wrong at the time. I think it was wrong now, Interestingly, my understanding is that you think, on balance, the Iraq war was worth doing a. Is that correct? Is that what you think? And if so, why?

[Jocko Willink]

Well, I mean, we'd have to break down all Kinds of things to get into the conclusion of that argument. I think that there was a time when in Iraq where we had really achieved something positive and it looked like we were going to be able to eventually end up with an Iraqi state that is kind of moving in the right direction. Now, I will tell you, right before I came in here, I was watching Iraq or, sorry, President Trump and the new prime minister having a meeting in the White House. And it was a very positive meeting.

[Piers Morgan]

Well, we have a clip. We have a clip. I'm going to play you. Actually, let's, let's play that. Click. Now you've mentioned it. We love Iraq and they're well represented. This man just won a big election.

[Jocko Willink]

They are very well represented, I can tell you that.

[Piers Morgan]

Thank you very much. I can't imagine you reacting very well if that had been a US president in 2003. 405 saying, we love Iraq, but times change, times move on. We're 20 years plus on now from shock and awe. You know, what do you feel about it when you see President Trump greeting the prime minister of Iraq so warmly and saying, we love Iraq? Do you, what do you. What does that make you feel?

[Jocko Willink]

Well, you gotta remember that even in 2004, 2005, 2006, we were fighting alongside Iraqi troops. We were supportive of their government. And to see this relationship grow is a very positive thing. That was the goal the whole time, was to form a good relationship and have a positive influence over Iraq and over the rest of the Persian Gulf. So I think this is great to see. I wish it would have happened earlier.

[Piers Morgan]

I mean, my issue with the Iraq war was I never thought that there was conclusive evidence. It turned out there's a reason for that, that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction and the similar rhetoric around Iran, that we've got to stop them developing weapons of mass destruction and so on. And I just felt like history was slightly repeating itself where you launch into an invasion, you commit a lot of forces. In the case of Iraq, ground forces. You were involved in some of the most brutal battles that America's ever seen. And I'll come to that in a moment. And that, you know, Trump, I felt got that he always talked about. I didn't agree with the Iraq war. I wish it hadn't happened. If I'm president, we will not be doing, you know, these senseless wars in the Middle East. It's not going to happen. And yet here he is in the middle of arguably the biggest one imaginable with the biggest enemy in the Middle East, Iran, something that many presidents before him had been asked to join in and attack on and had always said no for quite solid reasons. I just feel like he's taken a massive gamble here. Is it a gamble worth taking in your estimation?

[Jocko Willink]

Listen, I think that it's interesting to think that perhaps Trump is looking at this strategic situation long term for America and the world. And he decided that what was most important in the long term for our kids and our kids kids is that Iran does not have a nuclear weapon. And if that's what he is trying to accomplish, it seems like he is doing a good job of ensuring that Iran does not have a nuclear weapon now or in the future. And if that's the gamble, if that's what he's putting on the table and he's trying to stop, it certainly looks like he is going to pull that off. Obviously, there's been some American casualties and that's always horrible. But on the whole, it's been relatively small number of casualties and we're still making progress. I think this is sort of a new form of siege warfare. You know, like we saw in the past, you'd surround a castle and just, and just wait them out. And it certainly seems like that is on a big picture what we are looking to do to Iran. It's a siege warfare, shut them down economically, continue to do damage to their infrastructure and eventually will they have the will to continue? I think that's the big question. When will their will break? And the only thing that's going to tell us that is time.

[Piers Morgan]

Would you be comfortable about a commitment of a large number of ground forces going into Iran?

[Jocko Willink]

I don't think that's going to be necessary. I don't think they have any capability to require large number of ground forces going into Iran. I don't see it happening. I would have to see what situation unfolded that would demand that. But you know, let me be clear. I'm not a big pro war guy over here that wants us to run around invading countries. No,

[Piers Morgan]

I mentioned earlier that you've been in some of the most ferocious battles imaginable. Your most famous arguably was the Task Unit Bruiser. You were commanding Task Unit Bruiser during the Battle of Ramadi in Iraq in 2006. You led very iconic military figures like Chris Kyle, the American sniper. Ramadi was the epicenter of the Iraqi insurgency, one of the most dangerous places in the world at the time. And under your command, the TASS unit suffered heavy losses but achieved incredible tactical success. It became the most decorated special Operations unit of the Iraq War, which is an extraordinary achievement. When you go through something like that, Jocko, what does that do to a man? What did it do to you?

[Jocko Willink]

Well, interestingly, I think that combat like that and war in general and really military service, I think it makes people better. I think it makes you appreciate life more, appreciate freedom more, appreciate the opportunities that we have every single day, especially in America. And I think that going to war and seeing combat and seeing the sacrifices that get made strengthen all those feelings of patriotism and of really not wanting to waste any of this precious life and freedom that we have.

[Piers Morgan]

What was the closest you personally came to death?

[Jocko Willink]

I had, you know, rounds going overhead, had mortars land in my vicinity. But I was relatively lucky and, you know, never got wounded or anything like that. But there was obviously the Battle of Ramadi. The soldiers and marines that fought, that we fought alongside suffered immense casualties. And, you know, that is again, every day. Why I think about what we can do as individuals to make sure we live the best life we possibly can to honor those sacrifices.

[Piers Morgan]

You for the 250th anniversary of American independence. Obviously, we don't quite share your joy over here in the UK about that. We look at it slightly differently. And you made a little joke in your speech, Jocker, which I intend to have out with you. So let's listen to this.

[Jocko Willink]

When we declared independence from Great Britain, the world's most powerful empire, and then we had to fight them. Now, the British had more men, more guns, more ships, but we had something the British did not have. You see, the British soldiers and officers, they were subjects of the King,

[Brian Johnson]

but

[Jocko Willink]

we would bow to no man. Our forefathers knew that there was something more important than King and crown, something more important than safety or substance, an ideal more important than life itself. The founders of our country, for them, the most important thing was freedom.

[Piers Morgan]

Now, my quibble with that would be that our royal family is pretty unique. Now, around the world, there aren't many royal families, monarchies left, but they bring something a little different. I mean, they're not elected. That's obviously true. They don't have any actual democratic power as such, in the sense that we have a working Parliament, members of Parliament, they do all that kind of stuff. The elected officials do that kind of thing. But they provide a kind of constancy and stability which many people hear, find very reassuring. I'm thinking particularly of the reign of Queen Elizabeth II and now King Charles. When King Charles went to Washington recently, I thought it was great. The whole Thing, and, you know, we don't feel like we're kind of subjects who are being ruled over in the old sense. They're just there now as figureheads. Do you not miss a bit of that, Jocko? Wouldn't you like the continuity of one family rising above all the political fray? Who could just, you know, be like your little standard bearers? Wouldn't you just. Isn't a little part of you slightly jealous of our monarchy? Jocker?

[Jocko Willink]

Yeah. And I don't know if you know this, Pierce, but I'm actually married to a British.

[Piers Morgan]

I did not know that.

[Jocko Willink]

Not only do I have a yes, I'm married to a Brit. And so I've spent many. I've spent a lot of time in England and I've always appreciated British history. And I was also an English major when I went to college. I had to read Shakespeare and enjoyed reading Shakespeare and have been through that whole thing. So, yes, I do have a great appreciation for England and British history. And, of course, obviously, with my wife and her family and my kids, we are 100% on board for England in the World Cup. So let's go.

[Piers Morgan]

Well, I have a little. I have a little plan here where if England do beat Argentina in the semifinal and then win the final, win the World cup, because it would be an extraordinary moment where just literally days after you celebrate your 250th anniversary of independence, England returning glory to win the World cup in New York, in New Jersey, the epicenter of the United States. And, you know, I have suggested to Donald Trump, this could be a moment. I was texting him on the 250th day, actually. This could be a moment to bring back the British monarchy. You know, clearly, if we're world champions of the most popular sport on earth and we win it in your backyard, it just feels like a natural evolution. And if you're looking for a first king to preside over you, Jocko, I'm willing to serve.

[Jocko Willink]

Well, I wouldn't hold your breath on that one, but we have enjoyed great, you know, great partnership with the Brits, and I was lucky enough to work with the Brits overseas, and nothing but respect, just absolute professional soldiers across the board. They were outstanding to work with, and we always appreciate our allies in the Brits.

[Piers Morgan]

You have, I think you got four teenage kids, three girls and a son. Is that right?

[Jocko Willink]

That is. They're not really teenagers anymore. They're a little older now.

[Piers Morgan]

Right. So there's an ongoing debate, isn't there, about masculinity. You Know, people like to brand it toxic. We've had all the MeToo and Time's up campaigns and so on. A lot of young men feeling sort of under siege, under attack, not quite sure how to behave anymore. They're gravitating to, you know, quite misogynist figures like Andrew Tate and people like this, which has been very unhealthy, I think, but they gravitate to them because they also see some positive things. Getting fit, getting healthy, getting strong, getting mentally strong and so on. What do you feel about this? And what do you say to your son? And I'll come to your daughters, but what do you say to your son about to navigate this new world we live in and how to be a man in an environment, an era where a lot of masculine traits have been branded toxic.

[Jocko Willink]

Yeah, I think if you take any human trait of any kind and you take it to an extreme, it will become toxic. If you take competitiveness and you take it to an extreme where now you're cheating or trying to maneuver and destroy people in order to win, that's problematic. If you take being assertive, which is a positive trait, but if you take it to extreme, you don't listen to anybody else, even something very positive like generosity. Well, if you take generosity to an extreme, now you're going to be giving everything away and you're going to be taken advantage of. So you take any human characteristic and you take it to an extreme, and it's going to become a negative, whether that's a positive, a masculine trait, or a traditionally masculine trait or traditionally feminine trait. So what we have to do is teach people to be balanced and not take any of these traits that they have or characteristics to an extreme, because when you take them to the extreme, they do become toxic. And, you know, I ended up writing a bunch of kids books called Way of the Warrior Kid. It's a whole series, and it guides kids on how to navigate the world and be better people. And actually, those are. Those have been made into a movie and a movie that's coming out in November. So I think we're gonna be able to spread the message, a good, positive message about how to be good people in the world. And that's gonna. I think it's really gonna help out a lot of. And I think it's gonna help their parents, too.

[Piers Morgan]

I'm trying to think what it must have been like for your daughter's boyfriends to turn up on your doorstep to take out one of your girls on a date. And I was reminded of when I interviewed Arnold Schwarzenegger and his daughter, I think was 15 at the time and had just started dating. And I said, how did you handle this? He said, well, when this young man turned up, I answered the door, raised myself to the biggest possible size I could and said, if you upset my daughter, I will terminate you. What does Jocko Willink do in that scenario?

[Jocko Willink]

You know, my daughters are all great, great people and they have their own personalities and they can completely handle themselves and don't need their dad to be looking over their shoulders. You know, they all train Jiu jitsu, they're all good fighters, they all have good strong minds and their dad doesn't need to be looking over their shoulder. And, and even when they were younger, I told them, you know, I'm not always going to be here. You need to learn how to take care of yourself. You need to learn how to stand up for yourself. And my daughters all absolutely can stand up for themselves and look out for themselves and they don't need their dad looking over their shoulders.

[Piers Morgan]

Are you familiar with looks maxing, Jonker?

[Jocko Willink]

Yeah, yeah, well, I mentioned that my kids are not teenagers, but they're still young enough to keep me filled in on all the Internet drama that's going on. So yes, I'm familiar with looks maxing.

[Piers Morgan]

So I interviewed this kid, Clavicula, and a huge number of people watched the interview and it was amazing. The number of people in London, right, who knew about this 20 year old American kid and looks maxing and so on, where you max out your looks. I mean, you're a handsome guy, Jocko. I know you've, you know, you've given up drinking, you're very fit, you keep very strong and healthy and so on. But are you tempted to veer into the full looks maxing world, smashing your bones up in your jaw?

[Jocko Willink]

No, I am not.

[Piers Morgan]

Tighter line.

[Jocko Willink]

No, I think I'm perfectly fine the way I was never the best looking guy in the world. I'm doing okay. I married up. Like I said, I married up, so I'm doing all right. And what's really interesting about that clavicular character is what the Internet did behind the scenes to get him so popular. There was something like 1600 individual people that were making clips of him and producing hundreds of thousands of clips a month that were getting pushed out. And so it kind of artificially took over the algorithm and that's how he became so popular. So you gotta be careful with that algorithm. People, especially kids, just because you see something doesn't mean it's good for you. Doesn't mean it's healthy. It doesn't mean it's right.

[Piers Morgan]

Last time we chatted, you talked a lot about, you know, your personal sort of regime, how you like to start your day at 4:30. And we got some hilarious responses to this from viewers. One was, Jocker started waking up at 4:30am when he was 3 so he could drop his parents off at work before kindergarten. Another said when Jocker left the house at 18, he said to his dad, okay, you're the man now. And then someone said, wish Jocko had run for president. This is who we need. And then someone else said, you look like a, like a male version of Matt Damon. Which is a little bit harsh on Matt Damon, but a lot of reaction. A lot of people really fascinated by your sort of personal self discipline. Because I think the problem most people have in life is a failure to be self disciplined enough. And it takes a lot of self discipline. Right. How do you. I mean, I feel very strongly. I'm a father of four kids, three sons and a girl. So the other way around to you. But the thing I've really detected is there's a whole generational thing going on with young kids, particularly since the advent of smartphones in 2010, where they just seem to be much more anxious about normal stuff in life. You know, grief, losing a job, you know, buying a car, buying a home, splitting up from a girlfriend, good, bad, whatever it may be, normal life stuff seems to make young people much more anxious than it used to for whatever reason. Have you seen this? And what is the best sort of mental strength toolkit to apply to? Because I don't think we help these kids develop a mental strength toolkit enough to deal with life because they obviously are struggling with it for whatever reason.

[Jocko Willink]

Well, they're struggling with it because life is hard. And it's not just hard for them, it's hard for everybody. You know, a couple years ago I was at, I was at a restaurant and I'm at this restaurant, a guy comes up to me and he says, hey, can you come meet my buddy over here? And I end up in this conversation with these two individuals. They were both police officers and one of them had been involved in a officer involved shooting. It was a hostage situation. People had been wounded, people had been killed. He had been put on administrative leave from work and obviously he's having a hard time. And as I'm talking to him, I look at him and I said, oh, so do you have some regret over the way things went Down. And he said, yeah. And I said, do you wish you would have done some things different? And he said, yeah. Do you feel like you're thinking about it all the time? And he said, yeah. I said, are you having some bad dreams about it? And he said, yeah. And I said, hey, all that is totally normal. This is normal. You went through a really traumatic situation. People got hurt, people got killed. You saw people get killed. That's a terrible thing to go through. And the fact that you're thinking about it and having some nightmares, that's normal. It's okay. And that's so many kids these days, they think that because they got dumped by their girlfriend or dumped by their boyfriend and it hurts really bad, guess what? We all went through that. That's part of life. You didn't get into the college you wanted, okay? You're gonna figure it out. So I think. And even with my youngest kids, when my kids were younger, I remember something happened at school. You know, one of them got called a name or something like that and was really distraught about it. And I kind of, you know, had the attitude of, well, who cares? But I realized in her world, that was a massive deal. You know, she's in a school, she's got a class, there's only 50 kids in there, and she. She's getting called some name by one of those kids. That's a terrible situation in her world. And so everybody's world, you're in it, it seems terrible, but you gotta remember you're not alone. Everybody's been called names. Everybody's been dumped. And everyone has lost family. They've lost their grandparents, their brothers, their sisters, their mothers, fathers. People die. People. These things happen. And so I think one of the best things we can do for kids and adults when they're going through tough times and they feel a certain way instead of feeling like, oh, I get sad when I think about my friend that I lost. What's wrong with me? There's nothing wrong with you. You lost one of your friends. I mean, I lost some of my best friends. And of course, when I think about them, do I get sad? Absolutely. Does that mean that there's something wrong with me? No, there's nothing wrong with me. I'm a human being. I had friends, I had connections, and those connections are gone, and I miss them. Does that mean there's something wrong with me? No, actually, the opposite is true. That's totally normal. And you're doing okay, so let the kids know that you're going to have ups and downs. In life, life is really hard. Sometimes you're going to feel like you're knocked, get knocked down, or you don't feel like you can get up again. And everybody has felt that way.

[Piers Morgan]

Well, I always read, stand back up,

[Jocko Willink]

get back to your feet.

[Piers Morgan]

I always quote the Rocky Balboa speech to his son. You know, the famous one about life's not how hard you can hit, it's how hard you get hit, get back up and keep moving forward. That's how winning is done in life. That is so true. Right? It just is true. It's how you deal with adversity. It determines how happy your life is. Cause we're all gonna have to deal with it. You don't get a pass from life's difficult stuff. It's gonna come often when you least want it to. It's an interesting debate went on recently with a guy called Stephen Bartlett. I don't know if you know Stephen, but he does the Diary of a CEO podcast. Very, very popular. And he's a good friend of mine. I like him very much. He's very successful. But he sparked a big debate on wellness culture when he revealed that drinking three glasses of wine ruined the next three days of his life. He attributed the multi day fallout to disruptive sleep, cortisol and dopamine imbalances, skipping the gym, lower performance on his podcast, all of which he monitored via his whoop wearable. And he got kind of mercilessly mocked for this, right? And even I was like, come off it, Bartlett. Three glasses of wine. I mean, this is not gonna have three cataclysmic days of impact on your life, or the way you're telling it. But you know, you used to drink heavily when you were a Navy seal and then you gave up completely. Did you know what he was getting at here? That he's not really a big drinker and he, he just was making the point that when he does it just throws him off and he doesn't like that feeling. Would you empathize with that?

[Jocko Willink]

Yeah, I think, I think he's making a good point. I mean, he's making a little bit too of an extreme and, and I know him as well. He's a great guy, super nice guy, and I think he was probably breaking it down to the nth degree. And maybe it sounds a little bit extraordinary when he explains it, but let's face it, drinking is not good for you. It's not going to help any aspect of your life. And you know, when I got out of the military, you know, like you said, I drank while I was in the military. It's part of the culture inside the military. And I just kind of went along with it. Didn't think much of it at the time when I got out of the military and I just slowly stopped drinking, drinking. And eventually I, I looked around and I saw too many people that I know that had completely destroyed their lives from alcohol. Completely destroyed their lives. And when I started weighing that complete destruction of people's lives versus maybe you have a nice night with your friends, it, it just didn't add up anymore. And so now I, I'm, I'm very anti alcohol, anti drugs at this point in my life for sure.

[Piers Morgan]

I love a drink. That's the problem. I don't like, like getting drunk drunk very often, but I like a, I like a nice glass of wine, a nice pint of beer. I couldn't imagine suddenly just never dealing with that. I mean, do you ever have a little hankering, a little devil on your shoulder, say, come on, Jocko, one isn't going to hurt.

[Jocko Willink]

The last time I had a pint of Guinness was at the England game, World cup four years ago. So I don't know, tomorrow could be my lucky day for another pint.

[Piers Morgan]

Just final question for you, Jocko. I love talking to you. Thank you so much for coming back on. I was always struck by a speech that Admiral McRaven made at commencement ceremony when he talked about, if you want to succeed in life, just sort out the basic small stuff first. And he famously talked about, get up and make your bed. What's the thing that you would say if it's not making a bed, what do you do? What should people do with that kind of mindset to get their lives in the right way?

[Jocko Willink]

Yeah. So people always ask me, do you make your bed when you wake up in the morning? And I always say no because my wife's still in my bed when I wake up in the morning. I would say the most important thing that I think will have the biggest impact is when you wake up in the morning, go and do some kind of physical activity. I don't care if you go for a jog, go for a walk, do some push ups, do some yoga. But waking up in the morning and starting off with some kind of physical activity improves every aspect of your life. And furthermore, you know, I heard a quote from RFK Jr who said, if you find a healthy person, they have a thousand problems and a sick person only has one. And I think we really, everyone needs to prioritize Their health every single day. And it's one of those things where, listen, if I don't work out today or I don't go to the gym today, is it going to ruin my life? Nope, it's not really going to be even noticeable. But that day turns into another day, turns into another day, turns into another day, and all of a sudden your health is at risk. So if I would encourage anybody to do anything to help square away their life, Wake up in the morning and do some kind of physical activity first thing, and it will make your entire life a little bit better.

[Piers Morgan]

You know, it's interesting because I broke my hip a few months ago and as I was doing the rehab, it's obviously torturous, but I began to walk every day, more and more each day. And it was very painful to start with and very slow and very laborious. But I actually got to really like just getting up quite early, going for an hour long walk, and it really cleared my head. So I was actually feeling increasingly healthy despite the fact I was physically a bit battered. And it just reminded me, I mean, I had the same thing in the pandemic when all we could do was walk around that actually just going for a walk, actually clearing your head. You know, it's actually, it's free exercise. You haven't got to pay anyone. Just get out there and do a bit of walking. Final question. This comes from one of my producers, free exercise.

[Jocko Willink]

And that's a great place to start.

[Piers Morgan]

Yeah. Final question for one of my producers. He's a combat movie nutjob, which explains some of his behavioral pattern. If you could only watch one combat movie, what would it be?

[Jocko Willink]

It would be the HBO series the Pacific.

[Piers Morgan]

Ah, great series, Great series. Good call. Very good call. Out of all the combat heroes, who's most like you?

[Jocko Willink]

Well, I don't know who's most like me, but the person I learned the most from and looked up to the most is a guy named colonel David Hackworth, who wrote a book called about face, which is my favorite book of all time. And he had the biggest impact on me and the way I tried to lead, trying to emulate his example.

[Piers Morgan]

How would you like to be remembered?

[Jocko Willink]

I just hope my kids think I was a decent dad.

[Piers Morgan]

You know what? You actually, in the end, if you don't get that you failed in life, I think. Jocko Willie, what a pleasure to talk to you. Thank you very much indeed for sparing the time.

[Jocko Willink]

Thanks for having me. Good seeing you.

[Piers Morgan]

Here's Morgan. Uncensored is proudly independent. The only boss around here is me. If you enjoy our show, we ask for only one simple thing. Hit, subscribe on YouTube and follow Piers Morgan uncensored on Spotify and Apple podcasts. And in return, we will continue our mission to inform, irritate and entertain. And we'll do it all for free. Independent, uncensored media has never been more critical, and we couldn't do it without you.