Rob Smith (3:14)

You know, where are we right now? It's very confusing, I gotta tell you, because I don't believe that we're really getting a lot of good reporting from anybody across the aisle about this war. You know, on one hand, you will have President Trump saying that we're in peace talks. On the other hand, you will have Iranian officials saying that these things don't exist. On one hand, you, you know, you've got, you know, the videos of all the bombings and stuff happening. On the other hand, you've got a lot of stuff that's unverified on X. I think that fundamentally, you know, and I've been vocally opposed to this war, and I think that fundamentally I just do not understand what is happening right now. All right? And I think that the vast majority of the American people, should they want to admit it, likely feel the same. We really do not know where we are. I would like for us to be on a path towards reconciliation. I would like for us to be on a path towards a peace deal, because I think this war is a bad idea in the first place. And it's not a war that is explicitly to, I believe, defend America or is in the explicit interest of the United States of America. Right. So I would like for there to be peace talks. I would like for this to move forward towards a peaceful solution, but we are getting so much opposing information that I'm not entirely sure who to trust, what to believe or what is even real or what's not real.

Piers Morgan (4:36)

Yeah. I got to say, Matt Tardio, I mean, I, I feel the same. I'm very confused about all of it. I'm very confused about what the initial mission was, what victory was supposed to look like, what the end game would be. And my confusion has simply grown day by day as the outpourings from all the people waging this war have seemed to have changed the goalposts on whims from day to day. You know, can you make clarity from this, do you think, in your head?

Matt Tardio (5:07)

Yeah, a little bit. I'm like the both of you, where I sit back. And I go, okay, well, we don't know exactly what Donald Trump's plan is over inside of Iran for now, but we can certainly draw a lot of inferences based off of what we've been seeing taking place on the ground. And it's a good thing, Rob. And I think you would agree with this as a former infantryman with the CIB from Iraq. Correct. You don't want the enemy to know what your plans are. You don't want them to know the direction that you're going to take. And particularly speaking from an unconventional warfare standpoint, where we're talking about having a regime change, you most certainly don't want what little power that's left in Iran knowing what the United States is going to do. Rob brought up a very good point. He said that the president is talking about peace talks over inside of Iran and that he's in contact with people, and he ended up bringing up a fact yesterday or something that he's asserting is a fact, which is he received a gift from the Iranians, and he wasn't willing to say what that gift was. He just said that we got a gift. I'm not going to discuss it. I think he said it was something to do with oil and gas. Right. And that's very important here, because immediately following that is when we heard those statements come out from the Iranian foreign minister, I believe it was, that said, no, this isn't gonna happen. And then the Iranian state news agencies were pouring out, nope, that's not happening. We're not in talks with Trump. Well, what have we been talking about this entire time? We've been talking about regime change taking place. And I know that's not something that the American people may or may not agree with, depending on where they sit. But regardless, you're asking me where we're at and what we're doing here. So what that signals to me when I look at this and trying to look at it from a UW standpoint of what's going on is Trump is talking to people on the ground, and they don't necessarily have the same communication that they did with the other government. Over the last week, we've seen people over inside of Iran that have been conducting ambushes, receiving reports of people from the IRGC that have defected and started targeting current IRGC members, if that makes sense, and that there's a power struggle that's taking place. So all those reports are out there and they exist, but the mainstream media is just not blowing them up and putting it to narrative. They'll put other things to narrative that fit, agenda dividing agenda, things that make them really happy. But what Trump actually came out with and what the Iranian regime actually came out with yesterday, both of those signify to me exactly what we've been talking about this whole time. And Trump even said, it's not the same people. We've taken out a couple different tiers of them. So it's somebody else. So it's not the ayatollah that's laid up in a hospital bed that may or may not be capable of talking right now. It's somebody else. And that present that they gave is likely like a bona fide, that they are in control of the country, that they do have some control over what's taking place right now.

Piers Morgan (7:31)

I mean, it's a fascinating. It's a fascinating theory. What would you say to that, Rob?

Rob Smith (7:37)

Yeah, you know, I wanted to make a point here because he brought up regime change, right. That this is now a regime change war. And one of the biggest complications, one of the biggest parts of confusion in terms of this entire war is that this was not a war, number one, that was presented to the American people at all before it happened. But number two, at the very beginning, this was not a war that was presented to anybody and with the explicit goal of regime change. Right. It is going to be very hard to do regime change from the air, and it's going to be even harder to do regime change without boots on the ground, which very many people are very fundamentally opposed to. Right. So even the fact that we are now openly discussing this as a regime change war is something that is very different from a conversation that was happening about two and a half weeks ago when this war started, which really does, again, tie into the amount of confusion that people have for this. And so now, if this is now a regime change war that does require boots on the ground, again, who does this benefit? And it always brings me back to things that happened in the first three days of this war. And this is what really confused me. All right, so now you have our Secretary of State, Marco Rubio, who basically explicitly said in one of his first interviews after the start of this war that Israel said that they were going to strike and them being our allies, America had to join. Now, however, this was cleaned up after the fact doesn't matter because this is what it was explicitly said. Now, a couple of days after that, you've got Senator Lindsey Graham, who's never met a Middle east intervention that he did not like, literally flying over to Israel to lobby President Benjamin Netanyahu in how to advocate for this war to team Trump and those officials. Right. Those things really, really strike warning signs in my mind about this entire thing. I think that now the goal is regime change. I think that we cannot have a regime change war from the air without boots on the ground. And I stand firm in my belief that boots on the ground in Iran would be a disaster that would lead to the loss of American life and American troops, the likes of which the United States of America is not prepared to absorb. Because again, we were not fundamentally led into this war with direct or solid reasoning that the vast majority of Americans can trust and get behind. Now look, we saw something similar to this happen 23 years ago with the war in Iraq. And I remember being a 20 year old that participated in that invasion right about three weeks after shock and awe. At least the corporate mainstream media and at least the war hawks in D.C. and did us the solid of giving us six months of propaganda which ended up being lies before we went into that war. We weren't even given that with this one. So now we're kind of just expected to get behind this, to have the fundamental lack of respect for the lives of American troops that Senator Lindsey Graham has expressed in his interviews in trying to sell this war. All right, so if this is going to be a regime trained war now, this is not something that was sold to the people when this first started.

Piers Morgan (10:52)

Right. And Matt, I think the other thing I'd say, I mean, I had an interesting conversation with a Kosovan yesterday who was in Kosovo when the NATO strikes happened against Milosevic. And he said he was seeing a similar thing. He'd be speaking to some Iranians, he runs a cafe. And they came in and talked to him and they were people who opposed the regime in Iran, but have now since the attack on Iran, they have moved back to supporting their country. And he said it reminded him of what happened in Kosovo. A lot of people, a lot of Kosovans opposed Miloevic, but once NATO attacked Kosovo, they reined him behind their country. And it may go some way to explaining in addition to the fact there are bombs flying everywhere, which is a deterrent of people taking to the streets and the protesters who were killed in January and so on. It may be a third dimension to this, that actually when any country comes under big attack like this, it can often drive people to get behind their country, even if they have to hold their noses about the people leading it. And that would be a third element to this apparent surreptitious regime change going on that I would find questionable because there is no sign of the people rising up at the moment. And at some stage, if you're actually going to have a regime changing, you need that to happen.

Matt Tardio (12:10)

So why would they not rise up right now though?

Piers Morgan (12:12)

Right?

Matt Tardio (12:12)

Let's, let's, let's apply some common sense logic.

Piers Morgan (12:14)

Well, the bomb, the bomb is flying everywhere. And the fact, the bomb flying everywhere. Thousands were killed in January by the irgc, but that seems to be the DC are still in control.

Matt Tardio (12:24)

Tens of thousands were killed by the irgc. Besieged still has checkpoints up out in the middle of city, although they're getting targeted by numerous different types of drones, some of them likely being launched from inside Iran. Plus you have the Iranian officials, the regime officials coming out stating that if you do right now, we're going to gun you down. Yeah, we also had the CENTCOM commander make a statement the other day that informed them, don't do it right now, you'll know.

Donald Trump (12:43)

Right.

Matt Tardio (12:44)

He basically let them know when the time comes. We'll tell you when it's that time. And I'm going to tell you, man, I disagree with his premise when it goes to boots on the ground saying that we're going to absolutely have to have boots on the ground in order for this to happen. You know, the only time that you're going to actually have a successful regime change and uprising. Right. When you start talking about coups and you start talking about these things happening is when you have members of the military and certain units from within that military that are willing to go up and overthrow their own government. No regime change has ever been successful without the support of the military on the ground actually doing that. And as I had mentioned before, we are seeing all of those signs currently that that is happening in addition to signs of people defecting. He said that we haven't even been given a warning. And you guys are comparing or excuse me, Rob, you're comparing this to Iraq. This is night and day difference between Iraq. All right, here we have the IAEA that's gone in and established that they have 60% enriched uranium in stockpiles there. The Iranian foreign minister, even after we bombed them back in June. I don't believe everything that the Trump administration says. I don't think that we're over in Iran solely on the basis that we want a regime change and that we're going over there to do that. I think it has more to do with Russia and China, if I'm going to be honest.

Piers Morgan (13:46)

Right.

Matt Tardio (13:47)

But with that being said, you know, the Trump administration told us that they had completely and totally obliterated their weapons program. Correct. And then we heard the Iranian foreign minister told Steve Wycuff that they had gained an additional 20 kg of enriched uranium since last June, which means it's still intact and they're still moving in that direction. Numerous IAEA reports, one in particular actually came out and said that they had uranium enriched over at fordeau in the 80s, that they found trace elements of it enriched up in the 80s. And then they ended up writing that off as, you know, a centrifuge issue or something of that nature. But regardless, there's zero point for them having that. And we've heard Democrats and Republicans, not just this year, but in all the years prior, you pointed out that Israel's been pushing it for a while. Israel's been bringing up we need to like bomb Iran, that the nuclear weapons program. And lots of people point that out. But what you guys are refusing to acknowledge is the fact that we've had Democrats and Republicans on the Hill that have been pointing this out for a very long time. The nuclear weapons issue. I can go to 2020, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24 and 25 and point to a bunch of different Democrats that have been pushing the Iran issue. Our own government has came out and stated that they've had lethal attacks here on U.S. soil. We have Hezbollah down inside Mexico, Hezbollah inside of Venezuela. Iran just came out with a 4,000 kilometer range ballistic missile that they ended up targeting Diego Garcia. And the IRGC was absolutely the IRGC, absolutely. That targeted Diego Garcia with that 4,000 kilometer intermediate range ballistic missile. If you were to put that in Venezuela, which was the first step in this war, in my opinion, was taking out Maduro. If you put that in Venezuela, it would have covered the entire eastern seaboard of the United States of America and all of the southern states, half of Texas. So to sit there and say that they're not doing this, which by the way, it is documented that the IRGC was selling weapons to Maduro and putting them down inside Venezuela. You've also, like, to be honest, Rob, you've also came out and you said that no Americans would ever want to go and fight in this war. And at the same time, we have Americans that are over there fighting and dying right now and that are doing so very proudly for their country because they actually believe in what's going on. The fact is that this is completely and totally different than what's taking place. The fact is that this is completely and totally different than what's taking place or what had taken place over in Iraq. It's completely and totally different than what's taken place in Afghanistan. And you, as being a combat veteran from Iraq, should know that the IRGC funded the terror organizations that killed your friends.

Piers Morgan (16:02)

Okay.

Rob Smith (16:02)

Okay. This is a lot of information.

Piers Morgan (16:05)

So.

Rob Smith (16:06)

Okay, a couple points here. First of all, that if what you're saying, what you're saying about the nuclear enrichment program and all that stuff is true, like, this is incontrovertible evidence.

Matt Tardio (16:17)

It's documented.

Rob Smith (16:17)

The sky is blue as well.

Matt Tardio (16:18)

Right?

Rob Smith (16:19)

It's true. It's documented.

Piers Morgan (16:20)

We know.

Yossi Kuperwasser (16:20)

It's facts.

Rob Smith (16:20)

Okay.

Matt Tardio (16:21)

It's not that I'm saying it's true.

Rob Smith (16:23)

Okay, so let me. I let you talk for a really long time. I let you talk for a really long time.

Piers Morgan (16:28)

Well, you all agree, you're agreeing anyway, so let's move on.

Rob Smith (16:31)

It's a very long time. And I would like to kind of get this idea out. I'll let you talk for a very long time. So the point is that I'm making here is that there was real. There was no real sign that was given either to the American public or even internally that these talks were breaking down. There were talks about this deal. There were talks about getting Iran to back off of the nuclear enrichment. These talks have been going on for quite some time. Right. So now there was no indication given to the American people or anybody else that these talks had somehow broken down to a point that now we had to go to war. That's the first thing. The second thing is that there was no evidence that there was any kind of threat towards some immediate action that was going to happen against America or its allies from Iran. So these are two things that did not happen. So what you're saying about all of this stuff is absolutely true and verifiable fact. Like, I'm not arguing that at all.

Matt Tardio (17:34)

You just stated it's.

Rob Smith (17:35)

Kevin, the fundamental point that I am making is this, that there was no real reason given to the American public for us to have gone into this war in the way that we have. And now, obviously, things have changed because now we are in this war. And I think that a lot of people want to kind of, like, next day, quarterback this and give a lot of reasons as to why we should be there now that we're already there. And I totally understand that. Right. And I totally understand and respect the sacrifice of our troops that have given their lives to this war and to this country would never denigrate that for a single, solitary second. The reason I am in opposition to this and the reason that I continue to be in opposition to this is because when we are going to put American troops in harm's way, and we have already sacrificed the lives of way too many American troops for my liking, and I do believe that there will be more. We owe the American people and we owe our troops an ironclad, rock solid reason to put them.

Matt Tardio (18:50)

I can do it if you'd stop talking.

Rob Smith (18:52)

I can give them.

Piers Morgan (18:53)

I'm afraid, guys, we've run out of time. I really appreciate it. Of course, we could talk for a lot longer, but I appreciate you both joining me. Thank you both very much.

Rob Smith (19:01)

Thanks, Piers.

Matt Tardio (19:01)

Thank you, Piers.

Rob Smith (19:02)

Thank you.

Piers Morgan (19:03)

Well, Joe Kent is a gold star husband, a retired green beret, and a veteran of 11 combat tools across 20 years service in the U.S. army. President Trump appointed him to the role of director of the national counterterrorism Center, a position from which he resigned last week. Iran posed no imminent threat to our nation, he said in his statement. It's clear that we started this war due to pressure from Israel and its powerful American lobby. And I'm pleased to say that Joe Kent joins me now.

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Piers Morgan (19:57)

Joe Kent, I'm just wondering. A week ago, your life was very, very different to what it is today. You've been through what I would call the minsa. Since you went public, you're a man used to very difficult situations. How are you feeling about how this week has gone for you?

Joe Kent (20:18)

I feel really good. Thank you for having me on. First off, I appreciate the opportunity, but look, I didn't reach my conclusion lightly, but by the time I made the decision, seeing how we got into this war and seeing the path that we're going down now, I knew that I was doing the right thing. And I still feel the same way. So my main goal is to hopefully change the dialogue on how we're looking at things in Iran and hopefully give the president some opportunity to get us out of this conflict.

Piers Morgan (20:48)

This sort of central charge that there was no imminent threat. Now, we've heard people like Lindsey Graham and others saying they were two weeks away from doing something, which seems ridiculous. You were in the perfect position to know what the actual real threat was. How would you assess it?

Joe Kent (21:06)

The only imminent threat was of Israel attacking Iran and then Iran retaliating against our bases in the region because the Iranians knew that the Israelis couldn't accomplish this military objective they have of regime change without our support. So we knew that was going to happen. That was the only imminent threat. Once President Trump came into office in 2025, the Iranians closely observed a escalation ladder. By that, I mean, prior to President Trump coming back into office, the Iranian proxies in the region had attacked our troops hundreds of times throughout the region. After October 7, once Trump came back in, the Iranians stopped, deliberately stopped their proxies from attacking our troops. Knowing that President Trump wanted to get to the negotiating table, he did just that with Steve Witkoff and others. When the 12 Day War was launched, the Iranians didn't attack us. They made sure their proxies didn't attack our forces in the region. They didn't actually take a strike against us until we hit the nuclear facilities, and then they launched an equal amount of missiles that we dropped on bombs and they dropped on their nuclear facilities, and then they eagerly got back to the negotiating table with us. So there actually was no threat emanating directly from Iran. They had the capability to pose a threat to us, but so do many nations. But we did not have any intelligence to indicate that they were on the cusp of attacking us. The only real threat was from Israel forcing our hands.

Piers Morgan (22:32)

And notwithstanding the fact that Marco Rubio, the Secretary of State, publicly stated that actually America launched a preemptive attack because Israel, he didn't name the country, but obviously he was talking about, had indicated they were going to attack Iran, and therefore there would be a response and America would have to get involved. They then tried to rein that back. But he was on the record as basically saying, we did this because of Israel's decision to attack. You with your criticism have now been accused by Mitch McConnell of being anti Semitic. You've had Matt Brooks, the president of the Republican Jewish Coalition, saying that your appearance on Tucker Carlson's podcast was part of an ongoing problem. So inferring the same, you know, how do you respond to that charge that you're anti Semitic?

Joe Kent (23:17)

So in my criticism of, really our policy, the American policy towards Israel, I've never mentioned the religion of the people of the state of Israel. My issue is the fact that we have a foreign government that is dict. Dictating our policy in the Middle east, and in particular, dictating when and how we go to war. That's my main issue. Look, these guys are gonna throw out the anti Semitic claim because they want people debating that, and they also want people to cower because no one wants to be called anti Semitic. They're doing that because they don't want to discuss the fundamental issue, which is exactly what Secretary Rubio said, that we are forced into this war because we knew that the Israelis were going to attack, which would set off a series of reactions from the Iranians, who. So that's why we went ahead and conducted the attack, because our hand was forced by the Israelis. That's what Mitch McConnell, Lindsey Graham, and all the neoconservatives don't want to address. And that's the main issue here that we should be discussing.

Piers Morgan (24:12)

Of course, at the same time, you know, it's been pretty obvious to people, I think, that from what Antony Blinken said, that Israel had tried this before. They tried to tell President Obama and President Biden going to attack. Are you with us? We're going to attack Iran. Both times, the answer came back no. And on both occasions, Israel didn't attack. I thought that was very significant.

Joe Kent (24:38)

And I'm sure the Israelis told the Trump administration this in an effort to get them to be stronger than the Biden administration and then the Obama administration. What I pointed out in my resignation letter is that there was an echo chamber that was created around President Trump by key Israeli government officials and then media talking heads basically saying that this was the only time for us to take down the regime. They also moved the red line in a very clever way. President Trump had always said that Iran can't have a nuclear weapon. Well, the Iranian regime under the previous supreme leader, basically agreed, and they had a fatwa that made a prohibition on Iran developing a nuclear weapon. So the Israelis came in with the goal of moving that red line because basically, the Iranians said they wanted to continue to have the ability to enrich, and that kind of got us into this conundrum. But then in January, when the Iranians were feeling the weight of the economic sanctions that President Trump had put on them, they took to the streets again. The Israeli lobby came back. The key Israeli officials came back and said, now is the prime time to strike. If you strike, there's a clear path to victory. The regime will simply just fall. And so, basically, through those series of events, we were led to believe that there was a clear path to victory. But in order for the Israelis to get what they wanted, they went ahead and they said that we, the Israelis, were going to attack again, forcing our hand and dragging us into this war.

Piers Morgan (25:58)

What are your feelings about President Trump? He said since you resigned, he's not a fan. He thinks you're weak on security. Which does beg the question, well, why did he make you what he made you in the first place? What do you feel about his response since you resigned?

Joe Kent (26:16)

I understood that when I left, especially in the manner that I chose to leave very publicly, that he was going to have to say something. Look, I don't take any of this personally. What I want President Trump to do is to realize that the initial policy that he had towards Iran, especially in his first administration, when he utilized a series of key strikes against Iranian terrorists like Qasem Solmani and Abu Mahdi Mohandas. But then he leveraged the economic weight of America with max pressure sanctions. He had Iran contained. He knew that the Iranians knew that he meant business because of what he did to Qasem Soleimani, who basically walked all over Obama, walked all over George Bush. President Trump had them basically exactly where we needed them, where they were ready to get to the negotiating table. And President Trump was on the cusp of having a historic piece that I believe is still obtainable. But first and foremost, what President Trump has to do is reset and rethink our relationship with Israel. We cannot have Israel in the driver's seat of our foreign policy as it's been in the Middle east for my entire lifetime.

Piers Morgan (27:17)

You say it's not personal, but he's got quite personal with you. And for context, some viewers may not be aware of this, but your first wife, Shannon, was a U.S. navy technician who was killed in Syria in 2019 in a suicide bombing, leaving behind your two children. You married your current wife, Heather, in August 2023, more than four years later. Donald Trump said this this week about this.

Donald Trump (27:48)

Look, I'm not a fan of the guy. He was a man that I met at Dover. He came and his wife was killed. He remarried fairly quickly. His wife was killed.

Piers Morgan (28:02)

I mean, that was a nasty dig. You married very quickly. You know, whatever he was trying to infer, it wasn't pleasant. That is personal, isn't it? Did that. Does that offend you? That hurt you?

Joe Kent (28:16)

I mean, of course it's personal. It's not pleasant to hear the president speak in that manner. But look, again, the stakes are really high, Pierce. I mean, my late Wife was killed in one of these Middle Eastern wars that we shouldn't have been in in the first place. Hundreds of my friends were killed in these wars as well. My entire generation, basically, after 9 11, spent our adult lives in war. I did multiple combat deployments. The stakes couldn't be higher. And so, really, I frankly don't care what the President says about me personally. Again, I understand, because I went out the way that I did, that this is inevitable. What I want all the focus to be on is how we got here and how we get out of this situation that we're in and how we must restrain the Israelis and how we must use diplomacy with the Iranians to get out of the situation before it spirals further out of control. I think we're at a huge inflection point with the potential of putting boots on the ground, deploying forces into Crag island, or just having more violence and more of the energy flow coming out of the Straits of Hormuz being disrupted.

Piers Morgan (29:16)

It seems to me I've known Trump a long time. It seems to me he's looking for an off ramp. This has got way more complicated than he thought it might be. What does an off ramp look like for Donald Trump right now where he could claim some kind of legitimate victory without losing too much face? Because ultimately, as we know with him, that will likely be his biggest calculation.

Joe Kent (29:41)

First and foremost, he has to restrain the Israelis. As we've seen over the course of the last two weeks, every single time that President Trump says he wants some form of a de escalation with the Iranians, the Israelis go and take major strikes against Iranian energy or other key Iranian targets, basically to disrupt the potential for any kind of de escalation. No negotiations with the Iranians will be successful until the Israelis are restrained. And you have to do that by saying to the Israelis, israelis, we will help you defend yourself, but we will not give you the capability to go on the offense. If you guys go on the offense, you're going it on your own. And the Israelis have never been told that before. And we have to be very, very serious about that. Step two is going to the Iranians in a very serious way. Talk about lifting sanctions that will give them some economic relief, but will also get the Straits of the Hormuz opened back up again for commerce to get the flow of energy going once more. The negotiations are going to be very challenging. I think President Trump has the skills and the force of will to make this happen. But unless we restrain the Israelis, all of our efforts will be for naught

Piers Morgan (30:45)

just to segue to something a bit different. But during an interview with Michael Shellenberger, you said that you're skeptical that Tyler Robinson, who confessed to killing Charlie Kirk, was the lone shooter. You also said the FBI did not properly investigate his killing. As I said, the FBI was pretty forceful in saying we couldn't investigate further. I saw no action being taken. And you alluded to potential foreign involvement. Now, this is, as you know, sparked a lot of kickback from Charlie Kirk fans and former colleagues. First, did you stand by what you said and would you like to elaborate on it?

Joe Kent (31:24)

I do. Look, I want justice for Charlie Kirk, as I think every American does. The National Counterterrorism Center's purview was investigating all foreign ties. I think based on what we've seen in the public, there was folks who had pre knowledge of Charlie Kirk's assassination. From my vantage point at nctc, I don't believe that a complete investigation was done. And so I think that's important. As far as the case against Tyler Robinson goes, I can't speak to him. It sounds to me like they have enough evidence to convict him that will play out in the court of law. But from my vantage point, what we were responsible for, I believe there was more work to be done.

Piers Morgan (32:09)

And is your gut feeling that he did not act alone,

Joe Kent (32:14)

the potential of him having assistance, again, with the people saying they had pre knowledge, with the people jumping up in the crowd and claiming that they were the one who took the shot? It does appear that there could be additional people that had pre knowledge of it. I think that's about all that I can say on that. And again, from my vantage point, NCTC during the investigation, and I don't believe that we were able to run down every single lead possible.

Piers Morgan (32:42)

And in relation to possible foreign involvement, have you got any clarity about where that may have come from?

Joe Kent (32:50)

All I can say is that there was more work for us to be done in terms of the investigation itself. And so I just have to leave that there.

Piers Morgan (33:01)

Finally, Joe, a lot of people have been more aware of you in the last week. They've been watching you talking in the media. They've seen you be very, as many see it, very courageous in standing up for what you believe in. And they're aware, of course, of your glittering record serving your country. Many people now wondering, is this a precursor to you potentially running for office yourself? Do you have that aspiration?

Joe Kent (33:27)

It's not. I've attempted to run for Congress twice. I'm not in Congress now. It was a good experience. I'm glad I went through it. But I'm not doing this because I want to run for Congress. I am doing this because I cannot support yet another war in the Middle east that we have no vital national security interest in. I can't support sending more young men and women off to pay the ultimate sacrifice. And I want to move towards ending this war as fast as I possibly can.

Piers Morgan (33:53)

You have run before, but I guess the office I was talking about was a slightly higher one. Would you think that you would make a better president than Donald Trump?

Joe Kent (34:03)

No. I think actually President Trump is still a historic president, even though I had to leave because I disagree with him on this very important issue. I think President Trump has done amazing things for our country. And again, I think he has the potential right now to get us out of a quagmire with Iran that will basically, obviously cost our nation dearly, but also cost his legacy and really what the MAGA movement stands for. It will cost us that legacy and potential for the future. So I want to use any public platform that I have to encourage President Trump to move us away from this conflict with Iran as quickly as he possibly can and to redefine our relationship with the Israelis to prevent this from happening in the future.

Piers Morgan (34:41)

I mean, the logical sort of conclusion from what you just said is if he doesn't do the right thing here, this could wreck his legacy and wreck the MAGA legacy.

Joe Kent (34:53)

It certainly would. That's not my primary concern. My primary concern is more young men and women coming home in caskets at Dover, like my late wife and so many of my friends did. And then also the catastrophic effects that will have on our nation if we continue to plunge headlong into this war. But obviously a second third order effect would be political. And I think everything that MAGA stands for and that we fought for for the last almost decade now could be squandered if we get sucked into yet another regime change war in the Middle east, which was one of the core tenets that MAGA stood against and one

Piers Morgan (35:29)

of the cool things that he campaigned that he wouldn't do. Joe, Ken, thank you very much indeed for joining me. I appreciate it.

Joe Kent (35:35)

Thank you very much, Pierce. I really appreciate it.

Piers Morgan (35:38)

In the early hours of Monday morning, four ambulances were set ablaze in an arson attack in North London. The pictures were distressing. The crime was self evidently shocking. But arson attacks in busy suburbs don't normally make international headlines. This one did. The ambulances belong to a Jewish charity which provides emergency support for the Jewish community. Gold is green. Where the attack happened. That's the biggest concentration of Orthodox Jews anywhere in Europe. And many, if not most security analysts say that even though British nationals have been arrested, the trail really leads 3,000 miles and two continents to Iran. Similar attacks using homemade explosives or amateurish bombs have taken place across Europe and the Gulf ever since the war began. And a year ago, President Trump made a point of saying that Joe Biden's border policy had led to Iranian sleeper cells entering the United States. He was asked about this directly in relation to the ongoing war, and it's fair to say his answer lacked his usual bombastic confidence.

Joe Kent (36:35)

And if they try to hit us

Piers Morgan (36:37)

back, have you been briefed about how

Rob Smith (36:40)

many Iran sleeper cells there could be

Bleacher Report Announcer (36:42)

inside the US Right now?

Donald Trump (36:44)

I have been, and a lot of people came in through Biden with his stupid open border. But we know where most of them are. We've got our eye on all of them.

Piers Morgan (36:53)

I think we know where most of them are and we're watching them, I think. Well, most of the pro war talking points have included questionable claims about Iran's ability to hit the US Its allies, with rockets. But is the more immediate and realistic threat actually posed by secret agents? How do we tell them apart from lone wolf attacks? And is there any truth in the inevitable claims that some of these attacks are full flag? Joining me to discuss that and more, Robert Baer, the author and former CIA case officer in the Middle East. Yossi Kupawasta, the former IDF brigadier general. Jorge Ventura, independent journalist. Welcome to all of you. Robert Baer, good to talk to you again. The threat of Iranian sleeper cells, I mean, it's always been there, I imagine, massively enhanced by what has been happening in Iran in the last month. How real is the threat? How many sleeper cells could there be, for example, in the United States? And when Donald Trump says that they're keeping an eye on them, or most of them, it wasn't that comforting to me. It's like, well, if you know they're there, why is no one pulling them in? Why don't you know where they all are, et cetera?

Robert Baer (38:06)

Well, because he doesn't know where they are.

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Robert Baer (38:24)

What we're waiting for and hasn't occurred yet is a fatwa from the Grand Ayatollah, which will be very public, just as it was Salman Rushdie. And what that Is is a call to all 12 Rashia Muslims to attack American targets. That will become known. And these will be if it occurs. I'm not sure it will. These will be lone wolf attacks. And they do have cells in this country that follow Iran's orders. If you remember the assassination of Hariri, it was partly coordinated in New Jersey. I used to work for the UN Special Tribunal. So, yes, they do have the ability to hit. The question is, will they? Because right now they have the world's economy on its knees, possibly taking over Hormuz, which is a more effective weapon.

Piers Morgan (39:16)

I mean, that's a really interesting point because I've been arguing to people for the last couple of weeks, look, there's no doubt the Americans are smashing the Iranians militarily with the Israelis help. I don't think that's unarguable. What is very arguable is whether that is the real war being fought, that the real war, it seems to me, is the economic war being fought around the Straits of Hormuz, exacerbated by what Iran is doing to its neighboring Gulf states and attacking oil refineries or attacking tourist spots and so on. This is causing enormous unrest in the whole Middle east, but it's also driving away the very people that all these Gulf states have been trying to bring to the region, tourists and so on, selling safety and sunshine. So I think this economic part of this war is becoming the bigger problem.

Robert Baer (40:09)

I agree they are a rational enemy. When Israel hit South Pars, they attempt tit for tat, attacked Ras Lafan and took out something like 50 or 60% of the world's LNG. And what they're saying, the Iranians is all right. If you attack our oil industry, like car, can you take it? We will hit, for instance, op cake in Saudi Arabia, which will take out oil going to the East west pipeline, about 7 million barrels a day as we speak. So they have yet to start on their strategic, whatever you want to call extension. And there's nothing anybody can do about it. With cheap drones, they can just swarm Saudi oil facilities. And so this is the weapon they're looking at. And this is why today they demand it. In any sort of truce settlement, they get to keep control of Hormuz. They are the toll keepers of Hormuz. And this is what should scare us all is because in a way, they are a superpower. I wrote this in my book and I never expected this to ever come, but it's come about.

Piers Morgan (41:15)

Well, we're seeing the biggest shock already to the energy system of the whole planet we've ever seen. But we're also seeing the biggest shock, for instance, to the fertilizer system that the world has ever seen. And I think the effect of that on food chains in a few weeks and months should not be underestimated. And that's just to where we are at the moment. This goes on for another few months. Then it becomes really apocalyptic in those areas. Yossi Kuber Vassar, welcome to Uncensored. You said that Iran will be waking up CPA agents across the West. We've seen a pattern of this before, but we've never seen them attacked in quite this way before. Is it likely that there will be a lot of these attacks, or is it more likely that they will want to do a deal, as Donald Trump keeps trying to reassure us?

Yossi Kuperwasser (42:08)

Well, I think they consider both options, but we should worry mostly about the possibility of waking up those sleeping cells. And they have many of them. We saw a lot of Iranian attacks in Bulgaria, in Turkey, in Azerbaijan, in Thailand, in Cyprus. These are all things of the past. And we don't know exactly what the president says he knows. But I don't know where exactly those cells are and who men them and what other plans exactly. We see already some activity with this group called the Sahabel Yamin that carried out or took responsibility for some attacks on the Jewish facilities, Jewish centers in Europe, in Western Europe. This can be just the beginning of that. But we should worry about much more. Robert spoke about the oil threat that they pose. That's something that we have to take into account. But the launching of two missiles to Diego Garcia was 4000km range. This covers most of Europe. And they can, if they are pushed to the corner and they are in the corner already, they can consider that option as well. So we should worry about a lot of things that they can do, not only the sleeper cells.

Piers Morgan (43:23)

Yeah. I mean, on the question of the missiles, you know, I've got family who are ex British army pointing out that what that means is they could, they could, it seems now, fire a ballistic missile, for example, over London. They wouldn't have to target anything. They could just fly one over to scare the hell out of everybody. It looks like they now have the range. And that's a pretty terrifying revelation, not least for the UK because we have no defense against ballistic missiles in the UK None.

Yossi Kuperwasser (43:56)

Well, I can tell you of a meeting who I was participating in was the leadership of Germany many years ago when we warned them that if nothing is going to be done about the ballistic Missiles of Iran. Eventually they will have to buy our arrow and just put aside some big budget for that. That's what's happening right now. Everybody is under threat. And you can't underestimate the threat in

Piers Morgan (44:22)

relation to the idf, of which you were a former brigadier general. Is it likely if Donald Trump, as many people believe, wants an off ramp, he wants to get out of this, recognizing he may have miscalculated the enormous economic and political fallout that he's now experiencing. Can you see a scenario where the Americans pull out but the Israelis continue with, even potentially with a ground operation in Iran?

Yossi Kuperwasser (44:49)

No, I don't think this is a reasonable scenario. If Donald Trump decides to stop, we can stop. We planned an operation for four to six months and six weeks. We are towards the end of week four, and we are escalating the attacks right now. And I think we have already caused together with the Americans, a very difficult result for them, for the Iranians, when we look at their industrial capabilities to regain their ballistic missiles array and to develop nuclear weapons. So I think that we have done quite a lot in this respect. And if the President decides to stop, we'll stop. If he decides to continue, we still have a long list of targets that we can take care of.

Piers Morgan (45:34)

Let me bring in now Jorge Ventura, independent journalist. Jorge, what do you feel about this issue of the sleeper agents?

Jorge Ventura (45:44)

I think the threat is very real. My reporting really focused on the southern border. Back in 2021, started covering the border crisis under biting. And the migrants we were encountering were literally just only from Latin America, Central America. But around late 2022, early 2023, we started to see the explosion of what we hear in the US Say special interest aliens. So these are individuals from the Middle East. They could also be from China. These are individuals that have high security risk. Some have ties to terrorism groups. And under the Biden administration, that exploded particularly on the California border. That's where I reported in Tijuana, San Diego corridor. Between just 2021 and 2024, 1500 Iranian nationals were apprehended by the Biden administration. At least half of those, even though they were special interest aliens, were paroled into the country. The scary number is the number of God ways. These are special interest aliens that Border Patrol did not apprehend. That number is much higher. And I think that's the security risk is we don't know who these individuals are. They're in the United States. The most alarming fact from my report here is on special interest aliens is that many of these Special interest aliens actually destroy their identification and documents at the southern border. So when border patrol encounters these individuals, they literally do not know who they are. And it's not just Iranians. We're talking about individuals from Pakistan, Syria, Yemen, tens of thousands that also came from China. For folks who don't know, actually since the war started. These are from my border patrol sources. At least 307 Iranian nationals have been apprehended at the Border Patrol but under Trump they're not being paroled into the country. I myself, Pierce, was just at the California border where I just reported from an Islamic mosque on the Tijuana side. So this is on the Mexicans and according to my security forces mosque, it's already harbor special interest aliens. And those individuals were crossed illegally into the United States aided by Mexican cartels. Any of these special interest aliens, particularly men from the Middle east, are paying cartels up to $50,000 to speed smuggle in the United States. So my reporting, I think the threat is very real and it's connected to the southern border.

Piers Morgan (48:00)

Robert Baer, how much is the threat from outside America compared to the threat from maybe homegrown people inside the United States?

Robert Baer (48:11)

Oh, homegrown is very serious, especially in the Detroit area. Remember the bombings in Argentina? They could be traced back to Detroit and back in the 90s. And let's not forget, I know is aviation is still vulnerable. Hijacking airplanes, any number of attacks are conceivable. Will they turn to ISIS tactics of running trucks into crowds? I doubt it, but we can't. It depends how bad this war gets, what the escalation turns into. If the war continues for months and we turn Iran into a failed state, I think there's going to be a blowback, sort of like there was from Afghanistan that will affect the United States and Europe within its borders. And it's a lot of these sleeper cells do not connect together. They have autonomous orders. They're, you know, it's like the Mosaic defense in Iran where they know what to do and there's no way you can protect most, most targets.

Piers Morgan (49:16)

Who would you talked earlier of a fatwa being issued by the new ayatollah. Who would that be aimed directly at?

Robert Baer (49:25)

That would be aimed at lone wolves. It's an order. Shia Muslims tend to follow orders, unlike Sunni Muslims where they don't have a single sheikh. So an ayatollah, anybody considered an ayatollah that has a following, it's their duty to commit jihad against a target. Now normally Iranians attack military targets when they're available. But don't forget, as we've covered up for a long time, the Iranians were directly responsible for taking hostages and hikings in Lebanon. We forget this. It was not some radical group inside Hezbollah. It was Iran giving the orders. Will they revert back to terrorism like that? Let's see the way the war goes.

Piers Morgan (50:15)

Yossi, what's going to happen in this war? Everyone's asking the question, how does this end?

Yossi Kuperwasser (50:22)

Well, nobody knows the answer, so that's why everybody asks questions. But I think one thing is clear. The regime is going to be much weaker. And everybody in the Middle east and beyond the Middle east will understand how dangerous this regime is, how dangerous it is to leave it with the 60% enriched uranium, how dangerous it is to leave it with the capabilities they have on ballistic missiles, how dangerous it is for the Gulf states to have this regime as a neighbor, and how dangerous it is for the west to witness such a threat from the sleeper cells and from other elements that comprise the Iranian threat. So one thing is clear. We shall have to develop some new attitude towards the Iranian threat. No more containment. We shall have to deal with with it and make sure that it doesn't grow up again.

Piers Morgan (51:09)

Jorge, just finally, how prepared is the United States against this sleeper cell threat in particular?

Jorge Ventura (51:18)

To be honest, I don't think they're prepared at all. According to my security sources, at least right now, there's at least 18,000 special interest aliens in the United States and we have seen any arrest. I've actually been spe some Trump voters been angry who say, why are we arresting a lady selling tamales in the street of Los Angeles? Why aren't we going after these special interest aliens, individuals who literally have terrorism ties. So according to my sources within law enforcement, they're very unprepared. The other thing I think that also hurts the American public's opinion on this, Pierce, is the reporting. For example, just a couple of weeks ago, ABC News reported this unverified civilization that California could be hit by Iranian drones. That was really kind of laughed at by the American public. But when it comes to these sleeper cells through the southern border, those individuals do take that threat very seriously. And even the most hardcore Trump slippers don't believe this administration is actually prepared for sleeper sales here in the US

Piers Morgan (52:17)

I think the one thing we've learned in the last month is that this new threat from drones, cheaply produced drones, is extremely serious and could be used anywhere. Gentlemen, thank you all very much. I appreciate it. Piers Morgan uncensored is proudly independent. The only boss around here is me. You enjoy our show. We ask for only one simple thing. Hit subscribe on YouTube and follow Piers Morgan uncensored on Spotify and Apple podcasts. And in return, we will continue our mission to inform, irritate and entertain. And we'll do it all for free. Independent, uncensored media has never been more critical and we couldn't do it without you.

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