‘‘Keep Your Fat Ass At HOME!” ICE Shooting With Nick Shirley & Adam Carolla

Summary

Podcast Summary: “Keep Your Fat Ass At HOME!” ICE Shooting With Nick Shirley & Adam Carolla

Piers Morgan Uncensored – January 13, 2026

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Episode Overview

This explosive episode of Piers Morgan Uncensored dives into two deeply contentious stories captivating the United States:

• The fatal shooting of protester Renee Goode by an ICE officer in Minnesota, seen by millions and described as one of the most divisive police shooting cases in recent memory.
• Investigative YouTuber Nick Shirley’s viral exposé on Somali daycare fraud in Minnesota, which not only sparked federal probes but also had political consequences for the state’s governor.

Piers Morgan is joined by Nick Shirley, Adam Carolla, Geraldo Rivera, Will Chamberlain, and Tim Miller for a passionate debate about justice, self-defense, policing, media accountability, and how social media shapes public outrage and tribalism.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Renee Goode/ICE Shooting: Unpacking the Incident

The Context

• Renee Goode, a protester, was fatally shot by an ICE officer during an immigration raid. Video footage quickly circulated, fueling polarized reactions.
• Core questions: Was the use of deadly force justified? Did the officer act in self-defense, or was the shooting an avoidable tragedy?

Divergent Panel Opinions:

• Law and Self-Defense

  • Will Chamberlain (11:20): “This was the most obvious self defense shoot I’ve seen in quite some time… he was directly in front of the vehicle when Ms. Goode hit the accelerator… she created the scenario in which another person felt a reasonable fear of deadly injury.”
  • Piers Morgan (07:39): “I’ve watched this many times from every possible angle... that woman should not have been shot dead. And no one can persuade me otherwise.”

• Questioning Intent and Responsibility

  • Tim Miller (08:29): “Everybody made a mistake in this situation, but only one person got executed... There’s a dog in the back, children’s toys in the passenger seat… this car is moving like two miles an hour… He shoots her not just one time but... a third time through the side window... I just don’t see how anyone could see this and think [the officer] was in danger.”

• Procedural Context & Trauma

  • Piers Morgan (13:55): Suggests the officer may have panicked, referencing a similar incident six months earlier when the same officer was dragged by a car. “He reacted instinctively. It may well be he genuinely did fear that he was going to get hurt, but he shouldn’t have been in front of the car to start with. It was against their training.”
  • Nick Shirley (06:34/23:06): Points out that the officer, “was duty bound to protect himself,” noting his prior trauma and “who of us is to say whether or not we felt like his life was at threat?”

• Over-policing & Militarization

  • Geraldo Rivera (14:30): Critiques the massive militarized ICE operation. “You had this deployment of these masked desperados, 2,000 strong… there was a hostility on both sides from the get go. What in the world are paramilitary forces doing enforcing immigration law to begin with?”
  • Geraldo repeatedly attacks the notion of labeling Renee Goode a “domestic terrorist” and denounces the escalation: “Come on. I’m sick of the excuses... That car moving at 2 miles an hour, then 5 miles an hour, the wheels clearly turn to the right.”

Memorable Quotes:

• Tim Miller (08:29): “Everybody made mistake this situation, but only one person got executed.”
• Will Chamberlain (11:20): “A car is not a trivial thing... it’s also defense of others as well.”
• Geraldo Rivera (18:53): “That was absolutely an awful, awful mistake by those officers who aggressively sought to confront... The woman in that car presented no threatening image.”

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2. Social Media, Echo Chambers, and the Politicization of Fact

• Piers Morgan (21:13): “Everyone takes their partisan political position to its extremity, immediately, almost as a defensive mechanism… All of that distorts the debate about what happened here.”

• Geraldo Rivera (28:49): Blames social media for fueling polarization and performative resistance: “They want to make themselves a bit of a social media hero.”

• Adam Carolla (33:19): Criticizes modern activism and the rush to judgment, warning, “You have to be very careful when people have guns and you don’t… treat them like people that have guns and you don’t.”

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3. Nick Shirley and Somali Daycare Fraud

The Exposé & Subsequent Fallout:

• Shirley’s documentary-style YouTube videos revealed massive welfare and daycare fraud in Minnesota, much of it involving Somali-run organizations.
• The viral video drew both praise and backlash, with critics accusing Shirley of stoking racial resentment.
• Minnesota governor Tim Walz decided not to seek reelection following the revelations.

Key Points:

• Nick Shirley (03:53): “Tim Waltz got caught red handed… He could have stopped the fraud a long time ago.”
• Piers Morgan (04:27): Questions whether mainstream media failed: “Do you think mainstream media has failed the American people by not doing the very kind of thing that you were doing in this video?”
• Nick Shirley (04:44): “100%. Everyone else had the opportunity to go and make this video… That’s why I went and did the video, because that’s what Minnesotans wanted me to do.”
• Geraldo Rivera (31:36): Applauds Shirley’s journalism: “It was gutsy, ballsy street reporting… I’d like to think that’s the kind of stuff I was doing.”

Controversy:

• Shirley notes (05:45) “89% of the fraud happening is from Somalians,” but highlights non-Somali involvement and political correctness as compounding problems.

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4. ICE, Immigration Policy, and Media Portrayals

• Geraldo Rivera (14:30, 17:11, 28:49): Strongly criticizes the “paramilitary” posture of ICE during these raids, calls for a compassionate approach, questions masking officers: “If you have to wear a mask when you go to work, then inherently there is dishonor in the work that you’re doing.”
• Will Chamberlain (16:43, 18:10): Defends ICE, blames Minnesota’s sanctuary policies for necessitating federal intervention. “Minnesota state authorities are responsible for creating dangerous situations like the one that happened in Minneapolis.”
• Adam Carolla (40:25): Draws distinction between targeting actual criminals and established, law-abiding immigrants. “Nobody I’m aware of wants the hardworking day laborer who’s been here for 15 years...taken out of the country.”

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5. Gender, Protest Culture, & Social Behavior

• Adam Carolla (42:43): Observes a shift in protest culture, with many women taking confrontational stances against law enforcement:
  "Women have been sort of weaponized. There’s women screaming ‘shoot me, shoot me’ at ICE officers... All these proclamations, these narcissistic proclamations meets a blind spot... Women don’t grow up with rough and tumble play, so they’re having trouble with guidelines and limits and assessing danger."
  • He compares this with a lack of understanding of risk: “If I have a gun, and there’s 1% chance you could hurt me, whether it’s a car or a butter knife, then oftentimes the person with the gun will do it, even if the odds are greatly in their favor.”

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Notable Quotes & Moments (by Timestamp)

• Tim Miller (00:00, 08:29): “Everybody made mistake in this situation, but only one person got executed.”
• Will Chamberlain (00:08, 11:20): “This was the most obvious self defense shoot I’ve seen in quite some time.”
• Adam Carolla (22:10, 33:19): “If a person has a gun and you don’t, you probably shouldn’t spit on them or threaten them in any way or do anything.”
• Geraldo Rivera (14:30): “What in the world are paramilitary forces doing enforcing immigration law to begin with? This was a bait and switch.”
• Piers Morgan (21:13): “Everyone takes their partisan political position to its extremity immediately, almost as a defensive mechanism.”
• Adam Carolla (42:29): “The answer isn’t abolish ICE. The answer is you keep your fat ass at home.”
• Geraldo Rivera (31:36): “I congratulate the young journalist who exposed the fraud… it was gutsy, ballsy, you know, street reporting.”
• Will Chamberlain (27:18): “The use of violence or the threat of violence for political ends in this country is domestic terrorism. And by that definition, both Renee Goode and Ashley Babbitt were domestic terrorists.”

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [02:18 – 07:39]: Nick Shirley interview on Somali daycare fraud & political consequences
• [07:39 – 18:53]: Panel debate on the ICE shooting, roles of law, trauma, and policing tactics
• [21:13 – 24:00]: Analysis of social media’s role and the divide in public interpretation
• [33:19 – 37:54]: Adam Carolla’s philosophical take on compliance, protest, and consequences
• [42:29 – 45:45]: Adam Carolla on protest culture, gender, and misunderstanding of consequences
• [46:16 – 48:11]: Celebrities, virtue signaling, and the limits of activism

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Episode Tone & Style

• The conversation is often passionate, confrontational, and candid, fitting the “uncensored” branding.
• Participants fiercely challenge each other but largely avoid personal attacks.
• Morgan seeks nuance, blames partisan tribalism, and pushes back on what he sees as extremes on both sides.

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Final Thoughts

This episode offers a microcosm of America’s struggles with authority, accountability, and public discourse in the digital age—where everyone watches the same footage, but interpretations are filtered through political, personal, and emotional lenses. The debate underscores how social media, media narrative, and trauma shape responses to complex situations, both in policing and public accountability.

Summary in a Quote (Piers Morgan, 21:13):
“Why can’t it just be that? Why can’t we all just be honest about what we’ve watched?”

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Transcript

[Tim Miller]

That's fine, dude, I'm not metaphor. No, I think everybody made mistake in this situation, but only one person got executed.

[Will Chamberlain]

I'm a lawyer. I've been trained. I've read a lot about the law of self defense. This was the most obvious self defense shoot I've seen in quite some time, really.

[Tim Miller]

She's barely moving to a grocery store parking lot. Will, how do you get out of Walmart without shooting somebody?

[Adam Carolla]

Women have been sort of weaponized. There's women screaming shoot me. Shoot me. At ICE officers. They're physically fighting, fighting with these people. Well, you're 48, you're morbidly obese and you're not armed and you have no training. So they'll just knock you over.

[Nick Shirley]

Hello, we'd like to ask where the money's going.

[Piers Morgan]

What was this money spent on?

[Nick Shirley]

Tim Waltz got caught red handed. He could have stopped the fraud a long time ago. For that reason, he's decided not to run for reelection.

[Piers Morgan]

Many millions of people around the world have now seen the distressing footage of an ICE agent fatally opening fire or 37 year old Renee Goode. As every new detail emerges, the wildly opposing views on what happened have become only further entrenched. For many whose impulse is to defend law enforcement wherever possible, this video of the officer's perspective was the proof they needed that Renee Goode was in the wrong. Anybody who says they know definitively what was going on in either of their minds is lying. But it does seem clear that both made mistakes. Officers are trained not to stand in in a vehicle's path and to not shoot at moving vehicles. Renee Goode shouldn't have been obstructing the road and she shouldn't have ignored the very clear instructions she was given. But she's not a domestic terrorist, as many in the Trump administration have tried to say. She's the mother of a young boy and she didn't surely deserve to die. It's easy to be an expert after the fact. This was clearly an emotional and chaotic few seconds for both of the people involved. The officer broke the law. The law should still be enforced. George Floyd and BLM led to waves of total insanity in the United States right now. Looks like people on both sides of the argument have learned, well, pretty much nothing at all. We'll be debating all that with journalist and commentator Geraldo Rivera. Will Chamberlain, senior counsel with the Article 3 project. Tim Miller, commentator with the Bulwark. And first, I'll be speaking to Nick Shirley, the YouTuber whose work on alleged Somali fraud has prompted the Federal investigations. Dick Shirley, welcome to our censorship.

[Nick Shirley]

Thank you. Piers. How's it going?

[Piers Morgan]

Good. I mean, when you listen, all due respect, I'd never heard of you until about two weeks ago. And then suddenly you're the guy who's made the video watched by about 140 million people. First of all, what's that been like for you?

[Nick Shirley]

Yeah, it's been interesting. I've been doing YouTube, making these documentary style journalism videos for a very long time now, for over two years. And so. And I've known about this fraud happening for a while. And so when I was able to meet up with a man by the name of David in that video to go out and investigate the fraud, obviously resonated with a lot of people. Knowing that fraud is happening here inside the United States and that we were able to show it open and blatantly for the people to see.

[Piers Morgan]

You have, I believe, part two coming out imminently. What can you tell me about what's in that?

[Nick Shirley]

Yeah, so the daycare fraud, it's only one part of the fraud. There's a lot more fraud that's happening in Minnesota, especially with these companies called non emergency medical transportation vehicle companies that kind of uphold a lot of the fraud. So that way these companies and these, they're able to continue getting money with these welfare programs.

[Piers Morgan]

You've been criticized by a lot of people and praised by a lot of people. Tim Waltz, Minnesota's Democratic governor, announced he wouldn't seek reelection in the aftermath of your video going so viral. In the days before the announcement, he said you were, he said this on X, a far right YouTuber, a delusional conspiracy theorist. But then he made his own announcement about not seeking reelection. What's your message to Tim Waltz?

[Nick Shirley]

Yeah, I think Tim Waltz got caught red handed. He's known about the fraud since 2019. He's been saying he's been fighting fraud for that long. He's even said that organized crime is happening, is at a fault for a lot of the stuff that's happening inside Minnesota. And so he could have stopped the fraud a long time ago. And he knew about the fraud for a very long time. So for me to go there and with one day show the fraud happening openly for everyone to see, obviously Tim Waltz, he got caught and for that reason he's decided not to run for reelection.

[Piers Morgan]

You've had people in mainstream media being quite sneering about you and your journalism. But conversely, do you think mainstream media has failed the American people by not doing the very kind of thing that you were doing in this video?

[Nick Shirley]

Yeah, 100%. Everyone else had the opportunity as well to go and make this video and go talk to the people and hear what a lot of people were messaging me about this fraud. That's why I went and did the video, because that's what Minnesotans wanted me to do. I had received thousands of messages beforehand.

[Piers Morgan]

Have you had a bad reaction in terms of people threatening you since this?

[Nick Shirley]

Yeah. I mean, obviously when you expose fraud, a lot of the fraudsters are going to be upset. And then it turned into a race and political issue and I was just going to show fraud that was taking place. This was never meant to be a right or left issue. It was just to show that fraud is happening and that fraud is bad. And then you see how it becomes a real race and political issue. And that was never the intention of the video.

[Piers Morgan]

I mean, one of the things that's happened is a lot of people have come out and they kind of tarred the whole Somali community with the same brush of being frausted. That's upset a lot of people in that community who are not criminally minded. What do you feel about that?

[Nick Shirley]

Yeah, it's tough because the fraud that's happening in Minnesota, 89% of the fraud that is happening is from Somalians. And so that's just a fact about the issue is that a lot of the fraud being committed is by Somalians. There's also a white woman who was in charge of feeding our future who's locked up in prison. And then you also had a man who got convicted and charged of $7.2 million in Medicaid fraud, but a white liberal judge let him walk and reversed that. So you're seeing how this political correctness has enabled this fraud to happen.

[Piers Morgan]

What do you feel? We're going to bring the rest of the panel in in a moment, but this video of the ICE officer shooting Renee Goode, what is your. We've all had a chance to watch this from multiple angles now for the last week. What is your view about what happened?

[Nick Shirley]

Yeah, it's super sad. And I've gone to these protests, I've talked to these people, and she put herself in a position where the officer was duty bound to protect himself as well. The officer obviously doesn't want to feel like his life's in threat and she shouldn't be putting the officer's life in threat. And do I think he should have shot her? I don't know. I'm not in the position of the officer. But like I said, he's duty bound to protect himself. And she shouldn't have put herself in that position. She knew what she was doing. She was impeding a federal law enforcement investigation.

[Piers Morgan]

But you actually think she was trying to run him down?

[Nick Shirley]

I do. If you watch the video, she was obviously aiming towards there. And then there's even a moment before where she hit the gas in the tire catch tread. Who knows what would have happened if the tires did catch tread and she was able to do it and her girlfriend was saying, drive, baby, drive.

[Piers Morgan]

But that could be just to get away rather than run anybody over.

[Nick Shirley]

Yeah, that could be. But if you watch the video, her tires are aimed at the officer and she. She hit the gas. And luckily her tread did not catch beforehand as well.

[Piers Morgan]

Okay, let's bring in the rest of the panel. You're going to stay with us, Nate. Tim Miller. This has been an unbelievably divisive story. You know, my view is, having watched this many times now from every possible angle, is that everybody involved made mistakes, but that ultimately that woman should not have been shot dead. And no one can persuade me otherwise. I do not believe the videos collectively showed her deliberately trying to. To run anybody over. And in fact, her demeanor prior to this happening a few seconds earlier is the converse of being confrontational. So there's no suggestion there that she had any malicious intent towards running people over, and yet she's dead. What's your view of this?

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, I gotta tell you, I don't know what nix was looking at if he thought that she was aiming for him. I agree with you, piers. I think everybody made mistake this situation, but only one person got executed. And so I think we should look into why that was and what happened there and just be honest about what happened. He greeted the officer. Jonathan Ross had seen her, as you mentioned, 20 seconds before he shot her. And she said to him, that's fine, dude. I'm not mad at you. She was smiling. He could see into the car. There's a dog in the backseat. There are children's. Their children's toys in the passenger seat of the car. And. And then he walks around to the front. She's backing up, and as she starts to move away, this car is moving like two miles an hour. It's not moving any faster than any car does in any grocery store parking lot anywhere in america. The wheel is clearly pointing away, moving away from him. And then he shoots her. Not just one time, but then he shoots her a second time and a third time to the side window when he fires the Third shot, he's completely to the side of the car. He's not in any danger at all. And so I just don't see how anybody could see this and think that this person legitimately felt like his life was in danger. I'd also note that he has a couple colleagues that are standing there. None of them pulled their weapon. None of them seemed to think his life was in danger. And then after the car with the dead driver goes away, he walks to it easily and he calls her a fucking bitch. So I just. Look, I think this is a very clear situation. I think everybody trying to make this complicated or trying to say she tried to kill him, they either are just intentionally spinning for the administration because they're hacks or maybe they're just very easily scared individuals who. I don't know how you would get through life by thinking that somebody in that situation was gonna kill themselves was in danger of.

[Piers Morgan]

Well, let me bring in Will Chimney who says nonsense. Why do you say that? New year is all about starting afresh and today's sponsor will help you to do exactly that. Mando whole body deodorant is created by doctors and clinically proven to block odor for up to 72 hours. Powered by mandelic acid, it's free of all the bad stuff like baking soda, paraben and aluminium. Some men mask their BO with scents. Mando men get the job done right. Don't mask it man, do it. You'll find it in many top retailers. Or you can head to shopmando.com where for a limited time new customers get 20% off site wide with our exclusive code. Use the code peers P I E r [e-mail] for 20% off site wide plus free shipping. Shopman.com please support our show and tell them that we sent you. Mando's got you covered.

[Will Chamberlain]

Well, saying that people are scared when they're acting in lawful self defense is offensive. Basically every way that Tim characterized that was just unbelievably uncharitable to the police officer who clearly shot in self defense. He was directly in front of the vehicle when Ms. Good hit the accelerator. Now maybe she was going to continue turning, but maybe she wasn't. He was two feet in front of it and that woman had justified a lawful order to be detained. I mean we have to understand before this happened and that's not again not to say that she deserved to be shot. This execution thing is so frivolous because it's not about her being given punishment for her actions. It's about her creating the scenario in which another person felt a reasonable fear of deadly injury. Well, she committed multiple felonies in this context. Parking her car in the middle of, in the middle of the road, obstructing a law enforcement investigation. And then finally this aggravated assault with a deadly weapon. A car is not a trivial thing. And I mean, you think about police stops all over the country. The primary danger is people fleeing in their vehicles with two, you know, which are two tons of metal coming at them. And it's also not just self defense, it's defense of others as well.

[Piers Morgan]

There's a car, right. You and I will have dragged along. All right, but Will you and I had an exchange on X about the. Whether this constitutes domestic terrorism. I think that's such a ridiculous phrase to use about what we've all witnessed with our own eyes here. She's not a domestic terrorist. She wasn't trying to commit an act of terrorism against this ICE officer. Now, I happen to think that what may be a key part of this is that it emerged that six months earlier the same ICE officer had been dragged by a car in a similar situation, hundreds of yards and has suffered injuries and probably a lot of trauma. Right. We don't know how much trauma, but how much was that playing on his mind when he's there? He's ignored his training, which is that ICE officers should not be standing in front of a car in that situation, nor should they fire at a moving vehicle. That's what they're trained not to do.

[Will Chamberlain]

That last part is certainly incorrect when you're, you are allowed to fire at a moving vehicle in self defense or in defense of others.

[Piers Morgan]

Right. If you genuinely think your life is in danger right now, the question. So, so the question.

[Tim Miller]

That's not, that's not, I'm sorry, firing at a moving vehicle make you more safe. This doesn't even make sense. Peers. I mean, again, she's barely moving. If you shoot someone, as we saw with that car, if you shoot someone driving, I think the point I'm making, they're going to lean forward and press on the gas. Dangerous.

[Piers Morgan]

Let me.

[Tim Miller]

But this is the side of the car.

[Piers Morgan]

The point I'm making, the point I'm making is we don't know what was in anyone's minds. I think it's quite likely that what was in the mind of this ICE officer is what happened to him six months earlier. Right. And it may be that he panicked because he feared the same thing happening. Again, I'm not excusing or justifying what he did. I'm explaining what may end up being one of the factors involved here. It doesn't seem to me to be irrelevant that the same guy was dragged by a car and could potentially have been killed in that incident six months earlier.

[Geraldo Rivera]

Well, my point is everybody is ignoring the original sin. Hold on a second, I haven't spoken yet. Everybody is ignoring the original sin, which was to use a brigade sized deployment of paramilitary forces to presumably or reportedly or the pretense was to go after the worst of the worst of the criminal aliens. Did that happen? Absolutely not. What happened instead? You had this deployment of these masked desperados, 2000 strong, descending on the community with attitude. There was a hostility on both sides from the. From the get go. And what in the world are paramilitary forces doing enforcing immigration law to. To begin with? This was a bait and switch. This was using the specter of immigration. I'm surprised they didn't bring in transgender aliens. This was absolutely a fraud. This was a catastrophic failure. What did they get for all this? Aside from the dead Renee Goode, the dead woman, what did they get? They say they arrested 500 or detained 500 undocumented immigrants so far in this operation in Minneapolis, in the Twin Cities, 500. How many of the 500 were the worst of the worst? Is it not a fact that 70% of the American people oppose the way this deployment has gone down? The Trump administration set the stage for this catastrophe, this tragedy to happen. The southern border piers, as you pointed out correctly, has been sealed now for months. There's zero influx of undocumented immigrants. So if the supply of the problem has been cut off, isn't it time now for President Trump to use some common sense and some compassion, for God's sakes?

[Piers Morgan]

Okay, compassion, yeah. Well, you respond. Yeah, yeah.

[Will Chamberlain]

First, I mean, is there some list of federal laws that federal authorities are not allowed to enforce? You should probably inform them of that. I think that's a little bit ridiculous. And second, if we're going to talk about.

[Geraldo Rivera]

What are you talking? Nonsense. You're talking nonsense. You're basically radio nonsense.

[Will Chamberlain]

Not allowed to enforce immigration law because you actually need to bring in large numbers.

[Geraldo Rivera]

They are allowed to enforce immigration laws. What they are not allowed to is to impose a police state with attitudes and long guns.

[Nick Shirley]

We.

[Geraldo Rivera]

When did you.

[Will Chamberlain]

If you want to know who's at.

[Geraldo Rivera]

Fault for you, hold on.

[Will Chamberlain]

It's the sanctuary jurisdiction.

[Geraldo Rivera]

I don't know how much police work you've done. I've done a lot for the last over 50 years. You don't bring masked, heavily armed SWAT team, effectively SWAT team or Delta force, a kind of combatants into a situation where the problem is undocumented immigration. If that's the problem, you go and you pursue the. The normal, ordinary, reasonable, prudent ways of dealing with a social problem. It's immigration, as I said, the supply has been cut off of immigrants. Now's the time. What about the dreamers, the kids brought here at an early age who've been here and committed no crime? Isn't it for them to get. I think you're not far too undocumented immigration. Isn't that what you're talking about? Illegal aliens, so called. Is that what you're doing?

[Will Chamberlain]

You say they can't be masked. They're masked because the radical left and.

[Geraldo Rivera]

Antifa cops are never masked. State troopers are never masked.

[Will Chamberlain]

If the policy question. Can I just make this point? If you're mad about the policy problem, which is the fact that the administration needs to send in militarized forces, forces that are ready for responses, that's because Minnesota has sanctuary state policies and doesn't cooperate with detaining criminal aliens. And in other states, they don't need to send in bortax.

[Geraldo Rivera]

What's the rush?

[Tim Miller]

Because they did it here.

[Will Chamberlain]

It's the Minnesota state authorities that are responsible for creating dangerous situations like the one that happened in Minneapolis.

[Piers Morgan]

Okay, but I. Geraldo, we can. Obviously none of this is irrelevant, but in terms of the actual incident itself, what do you feel about what happened there?

[Geraldo Rivera]

In my heart of heart. And remember, I've covered every war in Central America, every war in Middle East, Afghanistan, 11 assignments, Iraq, 11 assignments. I've seen guns and guns and firing. And you know when to use your gun and when you don't use your gun. That was absolutely an awful, awful mistake by those officers who aggressively sought to confront. As you. As you peers have clearly laid out. The woman in that car presented no threatening image. Look at the car. This. That's the. That's the weapon that makes her a domestic terrorist. That car moving at 2 miles an hour, then 5 miles an hour, the wheels clearly turn to the right. Come on. I'm sick of the. The excuses. It's one thing to have ideology and be as conservative as you want to be, but don't make up a situation. It fails right there. When you say domestic terrorist. I covered Timothy McVeigh, 1995, Oklahoma City. You want to see a domestic terrorist. He killed 168American men, women and children. That's a domestic terrorist. Or the unabomber yeah, that's the wife. Or how do you name them?

[Piers Morgan]

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[Geraldo Rivera]

Oh, absolutely, absolutely.

[Piers Morgan]

Let me bring, let me bring Nick Shirley back in here. I mean, the thing is, Nick, because of camera phones now, so much of this stuff we can analyze for ourselves. I think that when you see J.D. vance, Donald Trump and others and they try and tell us something that we just haven't seen with our own eyes, in other words, they want us to look at a video in a way that just doesn't represent what we watched. No one can convince me that what we saw there was a woman whose demeanor leading up to that was intent on causing harm to that officer and who then wanted to run him over. I've just seen nothing that shows that. Now if it did, I would say so. I think part of the problem with these stories is everyone takes their partisan political position to its extremity immediately, almost as a defensive mechanism. In other words, the left immediately took the position, right? This is obvious, clear evidence the ISA are a bunch of Nazis and they murdered her in cold blood and blah blah, blah. And then the people on the right immediately go the opposite way. This woman brought it on herself. She's a radicalized left wing lunatic, she's a lesbian, she's this, she's that. And I think all of that is wrong. All of that distorts the debate about what happened here, which is I think everybody made mistakes and she shouldn't have behaved the way that she did. He shouldn't have done what he did. It was a situation which we've Watched in slow freeze frame, but actually in real time was very, very quick. And I think this guy was suffering from a little bit of trauma from what happened to him a few months earlier. And he reacted instinctively. And it may well be he genuinely did fear that he was going to get hurt, but he shouldn't have been in front of the car to start with Us against their training. So all of it was governed by a series of errors. Why can't it just be that? Why can't we all just be honest about what we've watched?

[Nick Shirley]

Yeah, it's an ugly situation on both sides, right? You have a lady who's impeding a federal law enforcement investigation. She shouldn't be in the middle of the road. And then if you watch the body cam footage from the ICE officer, he did get hit. That same officer had been dragged 300ft beforehand just a few months ago. And so who of us is to say whether or not we felt like his life was at threat? Maybe he felt like his life was at threat and therefore that's why he shot. And why is that lady impeding a federal law investigation in front and has her car stopped while they're doing a targeted ICE raid? And so there. Obviously there's wrongs on both sides, but you can't justify. No one wants to see a woman get killed. But you can't also say, well, that officer was in the wrong because maybe he did think that his life was at threat. And when we watch the video, it's instantaneously, it's within a few seconds.

[Piers Morgan]

What is interesting, Tim Miller, because. Yeah, I mean, the point I would make, Tim, is that from a purely legal perspective, put aside the morality of what happened or anything else from a pure, lawful perspective, I suspect is quite likely that this officer will not end up being successfully prosecuted for this.

[Tim Miller]

Look, that's gonna be a question for a jury, Piers, but the point. Look, people are on the right. A lot of folks are praising Nick for just honesty and journalism when they felt that there was, you know, not honest, things were being said about the daycares. Can we just be honest about this? Like, there is no way this person's life was at risk. The third shot, no one will address this. The third shot that he shoots. The third shot, he is to the side of the car. He shoots her through the driver's side window. The car has already passed him. And then he calls her a fucking bitch. Like, this guy's life, I would not exactly tell you. And others, they try to say it's a. Both sides Saying, oh, it's a partisan. Obviously the Trumpers defend him and the never Trumpers don't. That's not true. If you look at Tim Dillon, who's a pro Trump podcaster Joe Rogan just today has said this was totally inappropriate and wrong. Piers, you know, at times you've called it both ways, but you've been friendly with Trump. You're seeing it clearly. Only 28% of the country in a recent poll said this shoot was appropriate, including only 64% of Republicans. Like any 10% of independents, nobody who looks at this with open eyes can think this was justifiable.

[Nick Shirley]

I'm celebrating the Absolutely.

[Tim Miller]

We should just be honest about it. There is no reason to kill that woman.

[Will Chamberlain]

I don't even know if.

[Tim Miller]

With her toys in the passenger seat.

[Piers Morgan]

Well, Will Chamberlain, why do you say Tim Miller's making that up?

[Will Chamberlain]

Well, he's essentially accusing all of us of bad faith. Like, I'm a lawyer. I've been trained. I've read a lot about the law of self defense. This was the most obvious self defense shoot I've seen in quite some time.

[Piers Morgan]

Really?

[Will Chamberlain]

And the idea.

[Tim Miller]

Come on, really?

[Will Chamberlain]

Absolutely. He's directly in front of the car. Two feet in front of the car.

[Tim Miller]

She's barely moving to a grocery store parking lot. Will, how do you get out of Walmart without shooting somebody? I'm hoping you don't. You're not carrying a weapon when you're going through the grocery store parking lot. Because every day across the country, arrest. This is crazy.

[Will Chamberlain]

Lawful arrests by police officers. Is this like the normal thing on the left now? Like, apparently, like, you guys are all for law enforcement until it comes time to actually enforce the law.

[Tim Miller]

Hey, Will, I have a question for you. How many people do you think should have been murdered on January 6th? How many people do you think the Capitol Police should have killed that day? How many, just based on your theory.

[Will Chamberlain]

Of self defense, killed anybody? In the sense that I don't think Renee Goode should have been killed, but I actually think the Ashley Babbitt.

[Tim Miller]

No, using the justification of self defense. Because how many justifiably could have been killed? No, I'm asking how many.

[Will Chamberlain]

Just incredibly dangerous. So did actually babbittshi.

[Piers Morgan]

Yeah. But I think, Will, the argument you and I have, Will, was about this phrase, domestic terrorism. And I made the point which other people had raised anyway, which is, you know, that was on January 6th. By that criteria. By that criteria, you could argue that everyone that was violent that day was a domestic terrorist. Would you agree with that? You think they would?

[Will Chamberlain]

Yes, I agree. I think I have a broader view of domestic terrorism than apparently you do. The use of violence or the threat of violence for political ends in this country is domestic terrorism. And by that definition, both Renee Goode and Ashley Babbitt were domestic terrorists. I have no problem saying that. I don't think that applies to the people who were peacefully walking through the Capitol, for instance. That's not violence. But anybody who tried to swing at a cop on January 6th. Yeah, that's domestic terrorism. I said that on that day.

[Piers Morgan]

All right, Geraldo, what do you feel? I mean, we've discussed the domestic terrorism part, but we are living in a weird time where we all watch the same video, and yet many people can have completely, completely different interpretations of what they're watching. And I fear a lot of it. I'm not saying this about will only, you know, but I'm not disputing that you act. You're saying what you're saying in good faith. But I think so many people now do say stuff in bad faith. They. They will see something, and if it doesn't suit their own side's agenda, they will argue black is white. They just will, because that's where we've got to. And it's fueled by social media. And I also think social media is responsible for a lot of what was going on with the two women here with Renee Goode and her partner, where you see the partner actively goading the ICE officers, all on camera as well, to make herself a bit of a social media hero. Perhaps all of this is fueled by social media, but where does that leave us as a society?

[Geraldo Rivera]

I think that. That's an excellent question, but I think the litmus test. Litmus test for this particular situation or this population? Let me. You cannot. If you have to wear a mask when you go to work, then inherently there is dishonor in the work that you're doing. There's a reason why no law enforcement, absolutely not in the United States of America, wear masks. But for ICE agents, not even everybody in Customs and Border Patrol wear masks. It is specifically for this population. Why is that? We have to ask ourselves, why is it that unique in all of the hundreds of thousands of law enforcement officers, these. This cadre, is mask wearing? It is because, I submit, they are doing work that is inherently unpopular. They said they were going after the worst of the worst, and instead they're going after Rosa the Baker or Pablo the snow shoveler. It is a cop out. I call on the president to end it. Stop Sending military units to enforce this specific law. Be patient. You have stopped the supply of undocumented immigrants into the country. Be patient. Now go after the worst of the worst. Do police work, get warrants, get named warrants. Stop stopping Latinos on the street because they happen to be brown and there's a probability or possibility that they're here without proper documentation. Sort out the chaotic system and make it fair. I just think that what happened in Minneapolis was an accident waiting to happen.

[Piers Morgan]

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[Geraldo Rivera]

I, I just wanted to quickly add parenthetically that I congratulate the young journalist who exposed the fraud in the Somali community in the Twin Cities. I thought it was really, it was, it was gutsy, ballsy, you know, street reporting. I'd like to think that that's the kind of stuff that I was doing in the 70s and 80s and 90s.

[Piers Morgan]

That's what I felt, you know, But.

[Geraldo Rivera]

I good was done. But I also submit that go to any community in the country. We threw money at all of these nonprofits during COVID We just the President and then the first Trump and then Biden. All they wanted was the economy to stay whole. During the epidemic they threw money at everybody. They allowed people to take wheelbarrows full of federal cash out of the building without proper documentation or follow up of any kind. It was, yeah, I think that what's happening with the Somali community will be replicated from coast to coast if we have any guts in the justice.

[Piers Morgan]

Yeah, okay. I've got to leave it there. Tim. You got to get off. Thank you all very much indeed for a fascinating debate. Appreciate it.

[Will Chamberlain]

Thank you. Thank you.

[Piers Morgan]

Well, joining me now with his reaction to the shooting in Minnesota is the host of the Adam Carolla Show, Adam Carolla. Adam, great to have you back on uncensored. This is one of those stories where I saw so many people take an immediate position before anyone really knew exactly what had happened or why it may have happened, or understanding the motivations of the people involved, which is kind of a sign of the times, I guess. And then as more and more video footage emerged, people got ever more entrenched into their views. What's your view about what happened here?

[Adam Carolla]

Here? Well, I'm always consistent and sort of philosophical about this, which is you have to be very careful when people have guns and, and you don't, whether they're law enforcement, whoever they are. If a person has a gun and you don't, you probably shouldn't spit on them or threaten them in any way or do anything. And you can say, well, that's, that's wrong. Maybe it is, and maybe their training should be better or maybe they should be less human, but they still have a gun and you don't. So we should start just sort of based on that, whether it's a cop pulling you over or who knows who. By the way, who knows that guy could have caught his wife having an affair the night before, could have been drinking that day. You know what I mean? I'm just saying people go, oh, well, the cop was wrong. I think the cop was wrong, but I still would like to see nobody get shot by cops. So for the time being, treat them like people that have guns. And you don't. And doesn't mean you can't protest and doesn't mean you can't debate. But when it starts getting into automobiles, are spitting or pushing now, you're getting into a gray area where they may use their gun.

[Piers Morgan]

See, I think everybody here made fundamental mistakes, probably based on, in the cops case, the ICE officer's case, a false presumption that she was trying to cause him physical harm or run him over. He might well have believed that. I think it's very relevant, as I've discussed earlier, that a few months earlier he was in a very similar situation as Guy, and he ended up being dragged by the car for several hundred yards. I don't think that's irrelevant at all. I think in that moment, he may have feared the Same thing was happening and may genuinely have feared for his safety. Right. So who knows what was going to. But we don't really know what was going through his mind.

[Adam Carolla]

No, no, but what I'm saying is, is if a cop has a gun and you don't, and all of a sudden you make a quick move to grab something out of your pocket, he may shoot you.

[Piers Morgan]

Right?

[Adam Carolla]

And what I'm basically saying is don't make that quick move. Just comply, comply, comply. Because we, every single one of these tragic shootings, it doesn't matter. You know, here in the United States, we never get tired of talking about white cops shooting black people, motorists and blah blah, blah. 99.9% would be solved with compliance.

[Piers Morgan]

It would never happen. I totally agree. I mean, I would add, as a non American who's put his head over the parapet on this issue many times, not entirely successfully, that the presumption by law enforcement, quite understandably in a country with 400 million guns in circulation, is that everyone they pull over may be armed and they don't know who they really are or what they may do. And therefore, to your point, if you do absolutely nothing and do exactly what law enforcement tell you, then you're going to avoid a situation where any trigger movement of any kind may in their heads, make them think there could be a gun involved or whatever and they have to shoot you.

[Adam Carolla]

And also the problem with human beings, and I mean, you can say cops, you can say training all you want, but at the end of the day it's a human being if you have a weapon, if I have a gun, and there's even a 2% chance you could hurt me, because people do this all the time. To go with a cop shot the guy. Well, the guy had was a butter knife or he's just swinging around a bowling pin or something like that, you go, I, if I have the gun and you don't, and there's 1% chance you could hurt me, whether it's a car or a butter knife, then oftentimes the person with the gun will do it, even if the odds are greatly in their favor, meaning they are not taking any chances. You know, they go, was she trying to run him over? I don't think she was trying to run him over. It doesn't look like her wheels were turned. Doesn't matter. That guy has 2/10 of a second to decide whether he's trying to be run over or not. And he's the one with the gun. So do not put yourself in that position. Everybody, yeah.

[Piers Morgan]

And there are other parts of this story, like, you know, what is a young mum doing out there protesting in the way that she was doing, you know, parking the car in the middle of the road, blocking the ICE officers from doing their work, and so on. It's clear from her, her partner who was there, that this was a planned thing, a planned resistance, if you like. We don't know the full extent yet of the group they were part of and so on. But all of these are not irrelevant aspects to this story. You know, there is a kind of slight dementia with people towards these issues, which I think. I think you've said this, that people go slightly nuts and they lose their natural sense of caution.

[Adam Carolla]

Yeah, well, a couple things. So, just to summarize what I've said a million times about this or any other shooting, any situation like this, I basically say this. You may decide that you would like to steal your neighbor's barbecue, which they keep on their back porch, and use it for yourself. And nine times out of 10, you can hop over your neighbor's fence and grab his barbecue and. And it'll be yours. But one time out of 10, he may be cleaning his gun in the backyard, and you may get shot. And then people will say, the barbecue is $50. You deserve to get shot over $50. And the answer is no. But once you jump over the fence, you're opening yourself up to that possibility. And I'm saying don't go over the fence. That's basically.

[Piers Morgan]

Yeah. What do you feel generally about what ICE has been doing? It's becoming incredibly divisive. It seems to me most Americans agree with what Trump has done on the southern border. They like the fact that the number of people coming in illegally on the border has virtually reduced to nothing from the millions under Biden. I think most people don't seem to have much of a problem with people who are in America illegally, to start with, who then commit crimes unconnected to their status, getting deported. Most people agree with that. The real flashpoint has been the removal of people who may have come in illegally originally or come in with their families, and then they've been responsible citizens. They've got jobs, they've paid their taxes, they bought up family and so on. And they're being targeted by these guys in masks bashing down, you know, Home Depot doors and so on. What do you feel about what ICE has been doing?

[Adam Carolla]

Okay, so Biden leaving the border wide open was insane, and now there's a mess to clean up. So, you know, I don't think Trump and many supporters and people like myself, I didn't want to be in this position in the first place, but the border was left wide open and there's many people to gather up. I totally agree that there should be a distinction between the, the criminal and the person that's been here, law abiding, raising a family, so on and so forth. I really don't know. That subject would probably pull very badly, even amongst staunch Trump reporters, you know, supporters. I should say. Nobody that I'm aware of wants the hardworking day laborer who's been here for 15 years is raising a family taken out of the country. Now, I think in order of importance, I would like the cartel guys and the gang bangers and the human traffickers and blah, blah, blah. At some point, when that's all done, then you can get down to the people that are playing by the rules, paying their taxes, raising their children, so on and so forth, and then we can have a discussion about what. That would look like that to me. But to assume that everybody ICE is going after is a hardworking mother of three who's just working as a maid and has been, is all nonsense and BS and that's more narrative stuff that gets cooked up by the left. And then they go out and fight and push and they essentially create chaos and then say they don't want chaos. So it's essentially tons of chaos saying we don't want chaos, and then saying, don't you want the chaos to stop? And I'm like, yeah, I'd like the chaos to stop. But the answer isn't abolish ice. The answer is you keep your fat ass at home.

[Piers Morgan]

Right? Yeah. I mean that. It seems to me, I also think social media is a key component to whipping up a lot of this stuff. Do you sense that we're in just very different times now?

[Adam Carolla]

Well, so what I've been sort of drilling down on, on my podcast is there's so many women involved now, and women are the majority of society. I mean, you know, they're 51% or whatever it is, but it's, it's half. And women have been sort of weaponized. They weren't like this in the past. You go out and see the footage, there's women screaming, shoot me. Shoot me at ICE officers. They're physically fighting with these people with the ICE officers. Yesterday, one spat in the face of one and then got tackled. And when she was being tackled, she was yelling, what's going on? And I realized they didn't grow up with rough and tumble play. Mammals, male mammals, grow up wrestling, finding limits and pressure points and by the way, knowing who to mess with and who not to mess with. I mean, you learn that real fast by getting punched in the face when you're 13. So we get that and we can kind of govern ourselves. Women don't grow up with rough and tumble play, so they're having trouble with guidelines and limits and assessing danger. And you see it every day. First off, all they talk about is getting out and fighting. And you have to, you know, I see fat middle aged school teachers saying, ice, if you come to my classroom, you gotta go through me first. Well, you're 48, you're morbidly obese, and you're not armed and you have no training, so they'll just knock you over. It's all these proclamations, these narcissistic proclamations meets a blind spot, like literally pushing vans, you know, standing in front of 5000 pound V8 vans and leaning on the hood and trying to push it back like you have some kind of superhero strength or something. It's tons of women and tons of women who don't seem to understand what the limits are and who they're dealing with. And I think it's because they didn't grow up testing it like we did.

[Piers Morgan]

Well, I thought Renee Good's partner, you know, who's on video being very defiant with the ICE officers, was clearly reveling in the resistance, as she would put it. But to your point earlier, you know, had, had they shown zero resistance when ICE actually approached them, and had they been just model citizens and done what they were told, all of this would have almost certainly been avoided. But there was a kind of gleeful impunity, particularly I thought from the, the wife on video towards them, like, almost like defying them, you know, there's nothing you can do about us. And, and again, to your point, maybe it is just a, it's a, it's a, it's a modern phenomenon where they just don't understand the jeopardy that may put them in.

[Adam Carolla]

She's got a guy who's got a gun and she's calling him fat ass so that just there alone and you can go, oh, why are you defending the, these officers, Adam? I'm really not. I'm just saying I would like people not to get shot. And I would say if the other side has a gun and you're spitting on them or pushing on them or insulting them, ups the opportunities for you to get shot.

[Piers Morgan]

Final question, Final question, Adam. The Golden Globes saw a number of celebrities. Wanda Sykes, Mark Ruffalo, Ariana Grande, all wearing badges reading Be Goode and Ice out in support of Renee Goode. Bill Maher responded by saying this.

[Geraldo Rivera]

Mark Ruffalo and some Wanda Sykes also wearing a Be Goode pin for Renee Goode, obviously. And trying to use this platform for activism. Do you feel that's effective or no?

[Tim Miller]

Like, come on, we're just here for show business today.

[Geraldo Rivera]

You know, it was a terrible thing that happened and it shouldn't have happened. And if they didn't act like such thugs, it wouldn't have had to happen. But I don't need to wear a pin about it.

[Piers Morgan]

What did you make of that response?

[Adam Carolla]

Yeah, I mean, Bill's. Bill's pragmatic. I think that's why he's drifting a little over to the slightly more conservative types of thoughts as the left gets linear and nuttier. You know, he's. He's a Democrat. He's on the left, but the left is not Bill Clinton anymore. He was, you know, Bill Maher was, you know, agreed with Bill Clinton in the, in the 90s, but he's not, you know, with the transgender stuff and all the lunacy and after the fires and all the climate change crap and stuff, I don't think he's willing to go that nutty. And he knows that we wearing a stupid button or badge or flag or whatever you're putting on your lapel is not gonna cure anything or fix anything or bring anybody back. It's all virtue signaling. And they're all idiots because there's much bigger fish to fry, much bigger problems. Many more people being killed in other countries and here as well. But they're always focused on the thing that's gonna bring them popularity and make them feel the best about themselves.

[Piers Morgan]

You know what was noticeable to me? Not a single one of them said anything about Iran and the protesters being killed in huge numbers.

[Adam Carolla]

You could set your watch on the irony. It's really Gays for Palestine.

[Piers Morgan]

Alec Cronic, great to have you back on our census. Thank you very much.

[Adam Carolla]

Thanks, Piers.

[Piers Morgan]

Piers Morgan on Sense, that is proudly independent. The only boss around here is me. If you enjoy our show, we ask for only one simple thing. Hit subscribe on YouTube and follow Piers Morgan uncensored on Spotify and Apple podcasts. And in return, we will continue our mission to inform, irritate, and entertain, and we'll do it all for free. Independent, uncensored media has never been more critical, and we couldn't do it without you.