'Ms. Rachel Is a National Treasure!' Antisemite Of The Year Debate | With Ana Kasparian

Summary

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Piers Morgan Uncensored

Episode: “Ms. Rachel Is a National Treasure! Antisemite Of The Year Debate”

Date: December 4, 2025
Host: Piers Morgan
Guests: Ana Kasparian (The Young Turks), Jake Donnelly (“Red, White and Blue Jew”), Hen Mazi (Israeli influencer), Guy Christiansen (TikTok pro-Palestinian influencer), Ms. Rachel (children’s YouTuber, via clips/statements)

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Overview

This heated episode delves into the controversy surrounding the “Antisemite of the Year” list released by Stop Antisemitism, with a particular focus on children’s entertainer Ms. Rachel, her platforming of pro-Palestinian content, and the expanding definition of antisemitism in public discourse. Piers Morgan moderates a panel representing various viewpoints to debate the line between legitimate criticism and hate, the weaponization of antisemitism accusations, and the consequences of powerful public platforms taking political stances amid the Israel-Gaza war.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The “Antisemite of the Year” List: Moving Goalposts

• Context:
  • Originally designed to highlight overt antisemitism, the list now includes figures simply critical of Israel, including Ms. Rachel, Ana Kasparian, and Tucker Carlson.
  • Morgan frames the debate: "Most people now see that anti Semitism has no operational meaning beyond one who criticizes Israel." (Piers Morgan quoting Glenn Greenwald, [02:45])
• Ana Kasparian:
  • Calls the list "a list that contains individuals who are sometimes very aggressively critical of a foreign country... that's currently engaging in multiple wars in an effort to annex more land... that's Israel." ([03:30])
  • Asserts inclusion won’t silence her: "Putting me on lists is not going to dissuade me from speaking the truth." ([03:29])
• Piers Morgan:
  • Raises the expanding use of "antisemitism" as a means to silence critics: "It's just been used as a stick to censor people... that’s abhorrent." ([12:15])

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2. Ms. Rachel’s Controversy: Empathy, Platforming, and Propaganda

• Ms. Rachel:
  • Criticized for highlighting Palestinian child victims while (allegedly) downplaying Israeli victims.
  • Notable platform moment: Featuring Gazan child amputee and collaborating with Motaz Azaza, accused of glorifying Hamas.
  • Her Instagram statement: "I'm against antisemitism and all forms of hate and racism. I'm incredibly proud of my work to help Palestinian children." ([13:37])
• Jake Donnelly:
  • Main charge: "What makes her anti Semitic is her relationship with Motaz Azaza. If you're going to be a children's entertainer, you shouldn't have somebody on your show who glorifies the murder of 38 Israeli children." ([05:02])
  • Criticizes her for "selective empathy" and "political game."
• Piers Morgan:
  • Questions the fairness of the criteria: "Should we then apply the same criteria to any pro-Israeli commentator who's shown selective empathy towards Israeli children but never addressed the plight of Palestinian children?" ([06:12])

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3. Selective Empathy & Double Standards

• Panelists grapple with:
  • The meaning of empathy in activism – does caring more for one set of victims imply bigotry?
  • The impact of platforming divisive or controversial guests, especially for a children's audience.
• Ana Kasparian:
  • Pushes back: "The days of Zionists bullying Americans into silence is over. Put that in your pipe." ([17:38])
  • Admits potential double standard: "Would I feel differently if a children's entertainer was overtly pro-Israeli? Probably." ([21:54])
• Hen Mazi:
  • Argues statements from Anna and others contribute to real-world risks for Jews: "Instead of listening and trying to change your ways, you're doubling down... your words have contributed to an atmosphere that gets our people killed outside our synagogues." ([09:30])
  • On Ms. Rachel: “She’s really misguided... When she hosted Muatez Aziza, that celebrated Hamas... played directly into a medieval blood libel.” ([12:57])

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4. Weaponizing Antisemitism – Where’s the line?

• Piers Morgan:
  • Gives personal example of being branded antisemitic for criticizing Israeli government, not Jews or Israel’s existence: "I do believe it’s something that’s been thrown around way too much... to shut people up from criticizing anything that Israel’s doing." ([12:15])
• Hen Mazi:
  • Acknowledges overuse but insists on difference between criticism and statements that jeopardize lives: "Some people use antisemitism too widely... but that doesn't take away from the severity of people making statements that end up... being used to shoot Jews outside of our Holocaust Museum in D.C." ([12:22])
• Ana Kasparian:
  • Distinguishes identity from ideology: "This is about an ideology, not about an identity, a heritage, a religion, or an ethnicity." ([18:28])
  • Calls out "weaponizing antisemitism for Israel's purposes" as "so disgusting." ([18:39])

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5. Guy Christiansen: Defending Political Murder

• Segment Overview:

  • Christiansen defends the killing of two Israeli embassy employees in D.C. as “resistance,” refuses to call it terrorism, despite conceding it was “politically motivated murder.”
  • Piers Morgan repeatedly presses the definition:
    • "You accept he was murdering for political reasons?" ([27:10])
    • "That’s a terrorist. That’s literally the definition of a terrorist." ([27:18])
    • Christiansen: "No, he’s not a terrorist, he’s a resistance fighter." ([27:01], [28:10])
  • Refuses to condemn the murders:
    • "I do not condemn it." ([33:12])

• Panel Reaction:

  • Jake Donnelly: "If anybody on my side performed that poorly, I would ask them to get off social media, never be a voice for my side ever again." ([33:33])
  • Ana Kasparian: "No one should refer to that as freedom fighting, period." ([37:25])

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6. Empathy, Loss, and Humanity

• Hen Mazi:
  • Refuses to engage in "body counting": "Every child that is killed is horrible... Israelis and Palestinians deserve peace and coexistence and humanity." ([23:48])
• Ana Kasparian:
  • Shares a personal story about Armenian genocide, emphasizing learning empathy and not generalizing hate. "You have to judge people as individuals. If you don’t do that, then you are guilty of the same hate... that the current Israeli government is engaging in." ([35:06])

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7. Final Thoughts – Defining Real Antisemitism

• Piers Morgan:
  • Draws the distinction between criticism and hate: "Anti-Semites don’t hide it... They’re quite happy to be anti-Semitic." ([34:41])
  • Points specifically to Holocaust denial by Stu Peters as clear, legitimate antisemitism deserving condemnation: "That is antisemitism." ([37:28])
• Ana Kasparian:
  • Emphasizes her principles against hate on all sides: "I refuse to let people win and turn me into a hateful, disgusting bigot... I’m always going to speak out against injustice, including... embassy workers getting shot down in cold blood." ([36:15])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “If you’re going to be a children’s entertainer, you shouldn’t have somebody on your show who glorifies the murder of 38 Israeli children.”
  — Jake Donnelly ([05:02])

• “Putting me on lists is not going to dissuade me from speaking the truth.”
  — Ana Kasparian ([03:29])

• “It's just been used as a stick to censor people... that’s abhorrent.”
  — Piers Morgan ([12:15])

• “The days of Zionists bullying Americans into silence is over. Put that in your pipe.”
  — Ana Kasparian ([17:38])

• “Some people use antisemitism too widely... but that doesn't take away from the severity of people making statements that end up... being used to shoot Jews outside of our Holocaust Museum in D.C.”
  — Hen Mazi ([12:22])

• “That is not who I am. I know who I am in my heart, and I'm always going to speak out against injustice, including... embassy workers getting shot down in cold blood.”
  — Ana Kasparian ([36:15])

• “Terrorism is terrorism. Wherever it happens, whatever the reason, it’s terrorism.”
  — Piers Morgan ([30:45])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Opening & Ms. Rachel Context: 00:00 – 03:29
• Panel Introductions & Initial Positions: 03:29 – 05:02
• Accusations Against Ms. Rachel: 05:02 – 06:40
• Empathy & Double Standards Debate: 06:40 – 12:03
• Weaponization of “Antisemitism” Label: 12:03 – 14:15
• Ms. Rachel Responds/Public Statement: 13:37 – 15:27
• Should Children’s Entertainers Be Political?: 17:11 – 19:33
• Panel on Double Standards (Is criticism fair on both “sides”?): 21:07 – 23:48
• Guy Christiansen Confronted on Terrorism: 24:21 – 33:13
• Panel Reflection, Defining Antisemitism: 33:15 – 38:10

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Summary

The debate exposes the challenges faced when influential public figures speak out about contentious issues like the Israel-Gaza war. Blurred lines between legitimate criticism of a government and hate directed at a people or religion are at the heart of the conversation. While some panelists express concern about the consequences of “selective empathy” and the power of statements in fueling hate, others push back against the tactic of labeling all criticism as antisemitism, arguing it chills necessary debate and advocacy.

Ms. Rachel’s case is a flashpoint for this conflict: is hers an example of one-sided activism, or is she unjustly maligned for advocating for children in crisis? Throughout, the panel and Morgan wrestle with the possibility of double standards, the dangers of rhetorical escalation, and the real human consequences of online and on-air debate.

Ultimately, the episode underscores the need for precision in defining hatred, accountability for actual harm, and empathy for all innocent victims of conflict, whatever "side" they are born on.

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Transcript

[Ms. Rachel]

Skip the money. Skip, skip, skip, skip, skip and stop.

[Piers Morgan]

For two years she's flooded her platform with one size children. And when it comes to Israeli children, she offers crumbs. That isn't humanitarian. It's selective empathy.

[Jake Donnelly]

If you're going to be a children's entertainer, you shouldn't have somebody on your show who glorifies the murder of 38 Israeli children.

[Anna Kasparian]

Ms. Rachel is an American, God bless her.

[Hen Mazi]

Jewish parents are really afraid because they're showing their kids how to run write the letter M. And on the, on the side they're getting a video with Muatis Aziza who celebrates Hamas. That's very concerning.

[Piers Morgan]

It's very hard to not conclude that you were anti Semitic.

[Guy Christiansen]

It's reaction to the genocide. You couldn't bear it anymore.

[Piers Morgan]

No, it's just, it's just cold blooded murder. That's what it is.

[Hen Mazi]

I agree.

[Guy Christiansen]

It's murder.

[Piers Morgan]

Okay, so then he's a terrorist then, right?

[Guy Christiansen]

No, he's not a terrorist.

[Piers Morgan]

What is he? He's a murderer.

[Guy Christiansen]

Yeah, sure, he's a murderer.

[Piers Morgan]

It's that special time of year again. Nominees are making their case and rehearsing their speeches. Everyone's having their say on who should get the top prize. Anti Semite of the Year began six years ago as what seemed to be a well winning campaign to highlight prominent people who had done or said things which were anti Semitic. But I'm not alone in noticing that the entry criteria fixed by the Stop antisemitism advocacy group has expanded to pretty much anyone who criticizes the the Israeli government. This year's shortlist includes a couple of people who have peddled genuine anti Semitic tropes and a lot of people including Cenk Yuga, Anna Kasparian and Tucker Carlson, who to my knowledge have not. But there's one name getting all the awards season buzz this year.

[Ms. Rachel]

Dinosaur eggs.

[Piers Morgan]

Days of the week. Days of the week.

[Ms. Rachel]

Can you help me teach them to stomp? What a special day. We're so smart. Let's pretend that while we're having fun with bubbles, Bean starts to pee. Bean, you're peeing on the floor. Pee goes in the potty. Let's walk to the potty.

[Piers Morgan]

Yes, it's Ms. Rachel, the massively popular children's YouTuber who teaches toddlers, amongst many other things, how to use the potty. Critics say she belongs on the list because she's used her enormous platform to advance Hamas propaganda. She posted this video featuring one of her most popular songs to highlight a three year old Gazan refugee who lost her legs in an Israeli airstrike.

[Ms. Rachel]

Wake up, little bunnies, skip. Little bunnies, skip, skip, skip, skip. Little bunnies, skip, skip, skip, skip. Little bunnies skip, skip, skip, skip, skip, skip. And stop.

[Piers Morgan]

Glenn Greenwald, who is Jewish, posted yesterday. Most people now see that anti Semitism has no operational meaning beyond one who criticizes Israel. But having Ms. Rachel win will make that clearer, even for the few who don't yet see it. Her crime is speaking sympathetically of girls and children. Vote Ms. Rachel. Well, does he have a point? Joining me to debate this, a 2025 Anti Semite of the Year nominee alongside Ms. Rachel, Anna Kasparian, who's also the executive producer and host of the Young Turks, Jake Donnelly, AKA the Red, White and Blue Jew, Hen Mazig, Israeli influencer and author. So welcome to all of you. All right, let's start with you, Annika Spren. You're on the list. You've been nominated. How do you feel about that?

[Anna Kasparian]

I feel fine about it because obviously the list is not one that actually contains real anti Semites. It's a list that contains individuals who are sometimes very aggressively critical of a foreign country, a foreign country's government, and that would be the country that's currently engaging in multiple wars in an effort to annex more land and territory that doesn't belong to them. And of course, that's Israel. And if anyone's under the impression that putting me on lists is going to dissuade me from speaking the truth about what's going on in the Middle east, they'd sadly be mistaken.

[Piers Morgan]

And.

[Anna Kasparian]

And I know a little information about the grotesque woman behind Stop Anti Semitism, which we can talk about a little bit if you'd like, but I feel fine about being included in that list. And Ms. Rachel is a national treasure.

[Piers Morgan]

Well, let's come to the case against her before I go to my other panelists. The Stop Anti Semitism citation for Ms. Rachel's nomination states, since earlier this year, Ms. Rachel has published Hamas propaganda to millions, sharing debunked images, inflated casualty claims, and. And almost entirely ignoring Israeli child victims. My point to you, Jake Donnelly, she's entitled. If she wants to give more attention to kids in Gaza than Israeli kids, if she completely ignored what has happened to Israeli children, that's one thing. But if she's acknowledged it, but chosen to give more of her time to Gaza and children, that doesn't make her anti Semitic.

[Jake Donnelly]

No, it doesn't. And first up, Pierce. Thank you so much for having me on. I really do appreciate the opportunity to Speak about this. What makes her anti Semitic is her relationship with Motez Azaza. Because if you're going to be a children's entertainer, you shouldn't have somebody on your show who glorifies the murder of 38 Israeli children. That doesn't make any sense to me. And any parent that puts their child in front of somebody like that so that she can push her propaganda, use fake AI imagery in order to do so and to continue to just publish everywhere the hamas run numbers 14,000 imminent starving children. I've yet to see where any of those are. Yeah, that is what makes you an anti Semite. So it's not necessarily the one sided stuff that she does. But when you go and you talk about all of the children, well, okay, why don't you talk about the 12 children that were murdered by Hezbollah, the Druze children who are simply playing soccer. She says that she cares about all of the children, but I don't see that. In fact, I see what she's doing as a political game. And I'd rather call this stuff out in 1933 than call it out in November 1938. And that's what I'm seeing.

[Ms. Rachel]

And that's what I'm saying.

[Piers Morgan]

Okay, and also to be clear then. All right. As well, but to be clear, if that is your criteria, is that she shows selective empathy and we'll come to the issue of Motaz Azaza in a moment. But if that's your criteria, should we then apply the same criteria to any pro Israeli commentator on social media or on the airways, wherever it may be, who has shown selective empathy towards the plight of Israeli children but never addressed the plight of Palestinian children?

Are they Islamophobic?

[Jake Donnelly]

I think. Well, those were two different questions. So for somebody like me. Let's just take my case. You will see on my actual X page that I am constantly republishing, reposting and commenting on the center for Peace Communications, which are the people who are pushing the Palestinians that are against both Hamas as well as the Palestinian Authority. So when it comes to people who are acting entirely one sided, I don't want any of that. We have Anna here. And actually from my opinion, Anna's not the worst of the worst by any stretch of the imagination.

[Piers Morgan]

Do you believe she's anti Semitic?

[Jake Donnelly]

No, I do not. I do not believe that Anna is anti Semitic. I think that she can sometimes be easily manipulated and push the same Hamas run Ministry of Health numbers.

[Piers Morgan]

And out of interest, out of interest, Jay. And Jay, I'll Let you respond.

[Anna Kasparian]

No, no, no, no, no. I get to respond to that. Let's talk about data from the IDF. The IDF's internal data. I don't read American media on what's happening in the Middle East. I actually like to read Israeli media because they're super honest and I really appreciate their honesty. So Israeli papers got a hold of the IDF's internal data in regard to civil civilian casualties and in Gaza. And their own data indicates 83% of people slaughtered in Gaza, 83% are civilians. Israel. The IDF just shot and killed. Stop. Don't interrupt me. IDF just shot and killed an 8 year old and an 11 year old in Gaza, claiming that they had crossed the yellow line when no such thing happened. And they tried to make it seem as though an 8 year old and an 11 year old are literal militants deserving of the type of slaughter they were met with. Okay, listen, I am not gonna sit here and just stomach the ridiculous propaganda and lies that keeps getting regurgitated over and over and over again. You guys have to find better talking points. You really do. Because these have been debunked over and over again on this show and they will continue to be debunked on this show, on my show. Americans aren't stupid. They see what's happening. The evidence is abundantly clear. What's amazing to me is the dehumanization of every human life that isn't Israeli or isn't in favor of what that disgusting genocidal government is up to.

[Piers Morgan]

Okay, look, we've had some tech issues, Jake, with your signal, so we're trying to fix that. Let me go to Hen Mazi.

[Anna Kasparian]

Divine intervention must be.

[Piers Morgan]

Well, Herm Mazzi, you've been listening to this. What is your response to what Ana just said?

[Hen Mazi]

Yeah, it's rich to speak about dehumanization from a person that said that all Israelis should be ashamed of themselves, that we are demons, that the Jewish lobby controls the us that Israel is a Nazi state.

[Anna Kasparian]

The Jewish lobby does control the U.S. okay.

[Hen Mazi]

All right.

[Piers Morgan]

Where's the lie?

[Hen Mazi]

Prove my point. Thanks. The problem is that you are not able to look in the mirror and see who you are and what you're doing to the Jewish community. Oh, I look in the eye. And once the Jewish community is calling you out for the way you are harming us, instead of listening and trying to change your ways, you're doubling down. And as long as you're going to do that, yes, we will go. We are going to continue calling you what you are and saying that what you're doing is really harming our communities. What's disgusting here, Anna, is that you are unable to hear to a minority community telling you that your words have contributed to an atmosphere that gets our people killed outside of our synagogues. Because of your words, because of statements that you said that others like you.

[Anna Kasparian]

Have said they weren't included on the anti Semite list. By the way, the guy who killed two Israeli embassy workers. The guy who killed two Israeli embassy workers this year, okay, the actual anti Semite who murdered people didn't make it on the list. Fascinating.

[Piers Morgan]

Hen do you think that Anna is anti Semitic?

[Hen Mazi]

I think that her words are deeply anti Semitic. I think she has contributed to an atmosphere that gets our people killed. And I think it's totally legitimate to call this out. And if a minority community is telling you this, you should listen to us. And yes, maybe this person that.

[Piers Morgan]

Okay, but hang on.

[Ms. Rachel]

Instagram teen accounts default teens into automatic protections for who can contact them and.

[Anna Kasparian]

The content they can see. Explore teen accounts and all of our.

[Ms. Rachel]

Ongoing work to protect teens [e-mail] teenaccounts Hang on.

[Piers Morgan]

So let me just stop you there, because I've been branded anti Semitic, okay, by a lot of people on social media.

[Hen Mazi]

And I've defended you previously, right, because.

[Piers Morgan]

I deeply resent it. Because as everybody remembers who watches this show for many, many, many long months after the October 7 attacks, I vigorously and loudly defended Israel's right to defend itself. This year, from the start of this year onwards, I began to be more and more critical of the Israeli government. Not of the Israeli people, not of Israel, wasn't denying its existence. I wasn't attacking Jewish people or Israeli people. Specifically the government, Benjamin Netanyahu, and also specifically the right wing headbangers in that government like Smodrich and Ben Gavir. And for my troubles, despite painstakingly making it clear who was the object of my criticism, I was regularly branded anti Semitic. So I do believe it's something that's been thrown around way too much. It's done in a deliberate, concerted effort to shut people up from criticizing anything that Israel's doing. So, yes, there is genuine anti Semitism, no question. I think it's been rising in the last two, three years, which is appalling, but throwing it around to silence people. I'm not accusing you, I'm just saying this is what I've been on receiving end. It's just been used as a stick to censor people and to shut them up. And I think that's Abhorrent. Yeah.

[Hen Mazi]

And I agree with that. I'm not saying that, yes, some people use antisemitism too widely and in a wide brush that they shouldn't have to do it. And I think it's true for every minority community. As a gay person, I see how people use the term homophobic quite casually to say, anyone that is. That has any criticism of LGBTQ people is homophobic. I understand that it's not like that, and it's the same with antisemitism. But that doesn't take away from the severity of people making statements that end up, as Anna mentioned, you know, the same statements that we hear from them are the ones that are being used to shoot Jews outside of our Holocaust.

[Piers Morgan]

Museum in D.C. and what about Ms. Rachel? Do you think she's anti Semitic?

[Hen Mazi]

I don't think she's anti Semitic, but I think she's really misguided. And I think the fact that when she hosted Muatez Aziza, that celebrated Hamas on her platform, and then when Jews called her out, she said, calling trying to defend starving children is not anti Semitism. It played directly into a medieval blood libel that says that Jews are trying to kill children. And we use anti Semitism to stop her from trying to stop us. We're not silencing her. We're calling her out. We're calling her in, rather. And if she just listened to us and have this conversation, if Anna just listened to us and have a conversation instead of screaming every time she hears Jewish person criticize her, I'm sure that next year she wouldn't be on the list.

[Piers Morgan]

Well, Let me read Ms. Rachel's response on Instagram to this nomination. She said, I'm so thankful to Jewish organizations, rabbis, friends, colleagues and family for standing by me. I'm against antisemitism and all forms of hate and racism. I'm incredibly proud of my work to help Palestinian children. With 20,000 Palestinian children killed most child amputees in modern history, homes, schools, hospitals bombed, 17,000 orphans. Everyone should be speaking out. She also went on CNN's Amanpour show and told Christian Amanpour some more of her thoughts about this was two months ago. Let's take a look.

[Anna Kasparian]

What was it that made you step.

[Hen Mazi]

Out and support these children in Gaza?

[Ms. Rachel]

How could I not? Seeing what was happening on our screens, hearing from Save the Children, who had firsthand accounts, knowing that so many children were losing their lives. It's up to over 18,000 children. So as an early childhood educator, I know what children need. They need food. It's being blocked. They need water. It's being blocked. They need to be in school. Their schools have been bombed. They need medical care. I know what children need to thrive, and I know what holds them back. And it was very clear to me, along with so many others in our country and around the world, that it's so critical to speak up.

[Piers Morgan]

And she also addressed the criticism she'd faced. This was before this, obviously, this new nomination came out.

[Anna Kasparian]

Were you ever worried?

[Piers Morgan]

Because even before you spoke up, it.

[Anna Kasparian]

Was a hornet's nest of controversy.

[Piers Morgan]

The idea of speaking up for, let's.

[Hen Mazi]

Face it, Palestinian children after October 7th.

[Ms. Rachel]

I'm not an expert in that area, but I knew that. I'm an expert in child development. I have two masters in education. I've worked with children my whole life, for 20 years. Seeing the images of the children, there was no question that it was the right thing to say something.

[Piers Morgan]

Okay, so, Jake, when you hear what she says there and you read her statement, she's very keen to stress she's not anti Semitic, she doesn't hate Jewish people.

So why would she be targeted in this way?

[Jake Donnelly]

Well, we've already discussed it. When you are a children entertainer and you bring somebody on who glorifies a day in which 38 children were murdered. Well, we're gonna have some questions as to.

[Piers Morgan]

But I've had people. But my response to that is I've had many guests on here on the pro Palestinian side, not who've glorified October 7th. But certainly you've refused to condemn it. So does that make me anti Semitic for giving them a platform?

[Jake Donnelly]

No, You're a journalist. You're not a children's entertainer. Although sometimes it can get pretty childish on this show. But that's not the case here. And if we're talking about antisemitism, what actually constitutes antisemitism? We already have something on this show where Anna says that 83%, that's just those who were identified. That is a misleading statistic. And either. Anna, you know it's not how to read.

[Anna Kasparian]

83% of those slaughtered in Gaza were identified as civilians by the idf.

[Jake Donnelly]

Identified. So you're not.

[Anna Kasparian]

You can't spin it correctly. So, no, no, no, no, no. 83 were identified as civilians by the IDF according to Israeli paper. Everyone check that out.

[Hen Mazi]

Yeah, everyone can Google talk about this.

[Anna Kasparian]

You have no argument, because the truth.

[Jake Donnelly]

Is on my side.

[Anna Kasparian]

And I know that's so difficult. So stop embarrassing yourself.

[Piers Morgan]

Well, Anna, let me ask you, though. Let me. Let me ask Anna this now. Hang On. Let me ask Anna this question. Was the unwise of Ms. Rachel to be so outspoken about this? Not because she's not entitled to or it's not an incredibly important issue, but the fact she is a children's entertainment with a huge, huge, huge audience? Was it unwise of her to get overtly political like this?

[Anna Kasparian]

The days of Zionists bullying Americans into silence is over. Put that in your pipe.

[Piers Morgan]

And that's a different question, though.

[Anna Kasparian]

I'd like to read a quote. I'd like to read a quote.

[Hen Mazi]

The biggest bully on the Internet is talking about bullying. Give me a big.

[Anna Kasparian]

Ms. Rachel is an American, God bless her. And as an American, she is afforded the freedom she is to speak up.

[Piers Morgan]

No one's doubting that.

[Anna Kasparian]

Justice. And.

[Piers Morgan]

Hang on.

[Anna Kasparian]

So do I think it's wise?

[Piers Morgan]

No. No, but.

[Anna Kasparian]

No, obviously I think it's wise.

[Piers Morgan]

No one's doubting.

[Jake Donnelly]

For a litigious.

[Piers Morgan]

No one's doubting her.

[Anna Kasparian]

Right. I think it's wise.

[Piers Morgan]

No one's doubting her right to say it.

[Anna Kasparian]

Yes, but.

[Piers Morgan]

But it's.

[Anna Kasparian]

Whether it's answered your question. I think it's wise because they're gonna call everyone an anti Semitic.

[Piers Morgan]

What would you say if.

[Anna Kasparian]

As long as you're not bowing down to the government of Israel, they're gonna call you an anti Semite? They don't even care about the value of Jewish lives here in the United States. Okay, but Anna, if those Jewish individuals are critical of.

This is about an ideology, not about an identity, a heritage, a religion, or an ethnicity.

[Piers Morgan]

Okay, but if.

[Anna Kasparian]

Make sure you realize that.

[Piers Morgan]

Okay, but if it was a. Weaponizing.

[Anna Kasparian]

Anti Semitism for Israel's purposes is so disgusting.

[Piers Morgan]

But if it was a children's entertainer who was pro Israeli.

[Anna Kasparian]

Yeah.

[Hen Mazi]

Oh, Anna would have.

[Piers Morgan]

What would you say? And be honest about this.

[Anna Kasparian]

If she is. If she is showing the humanity of Israeli children, why would I have a problem with that?

[Hen Mazi]

Oh, come on.

[Piers Morgan]

Really, Pierce?

[Anna Kasparian]

You've had me on this show multiple times. Yeah, 100%.

[Piers Morgan]

But if you deem. If you deem she only cared about.

[Anna Kasparian]

Israeli kids multiple times.

[Piers Morgan]

Right, but if you. If you deem she cares.

[Anna Kasparian]

Do you know what year it is? Pierce, do you know what year it is? Okay, it's not October 7, 2023. Since then, over two and a half years later, tens of thousands of children have been slaughtered on the Palestinian side.

[Piers Morgan]

Yeah, but that's not my question.

[Anna Kasparian]

When they bring up the what about my question. What about. What about. What about. What about everyone condemns what happened to each other. Israeli civilians that's not my question. I have done that on this show.

[Piers Morgan]

Anna, you're answering a different.

[Anna Kasparian]

I have done that on this show.

[Piers Morgan]

Yeah. I'm not questioning the two people on.

[Anna Kasparian]

This panel right now do not care about Palestinian lives.

[Piers Morgan]

I don't believe that's true. I don't believe that's true.

[Anna Kasparian]

So called anti Semitism.

[Piers Morgan]

I don't believe that's true. But my question was they don't care. Let me read you a quote. Let me talk.

[Anna Kasparian]

Let me read you a quote.

[Piers Morgan]

Let me talk.

[Anna Kasparian]

This is from Tali Gottlieb. Tally Gottlieb says we have no hostages left. We no longer have to be precise. As if the IDF was ever precise in Gaza. We can attack without mercy. Merciless. Merciless. What are the two individuals on this panel have to say about that?

[Piers Morgan]

Well, I want you to.

[Anna Kasparian]

Genocidal rhetoric.

[Piers Morgan]

Okay. But I just want you to answer my question first, which is actually specifically about whether a children's entertainer with a massive reach. If they were promoting the pro Israeli position on this war and not really mentioning the Palestinian side.

[Anna Kasparian]

No, I do not think that's a good idea.

[Piers Morgan]

So you would not like that to happen.

[Anna Kasparian]

If they're promoting genocide? I would not.

[Hen Mazi]

That's not what he asked.

[Piers Morgan]

If they were just. If they were just. If they were being supportive of Israel, but they weren't mentioning the Palestinian plight much, what would you say about that? Would you think it's appropriate for children's.

[Anna Kasparian]

Entertainment like American media?

[Piers Morgan]

But my point would be that I.

[Anna Kasparian]

Think it sounds like.

[Piers Morgan]

I think you would be very critical if a children's entertainer was overtly pro Israeli. That's the point. So is there a double standard here on both sides, by the way? I've seen it on both sides. But is there a double standard in how you apply it to this kind of story? Where, if it was the other way round, would you be so vehement in your defense of it? I suspect not. Right.

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[Anna Kasparian]

Probably not. No. Because it totally ignores the fact that since.

[Piers Morgan]

Okay, but that's intellectually honest.

[Anna Kasparian]

At least the vast majority of children who have been murdered are.

[Piers Morgan]

You can disagree with her.

[Anna Kasparian]

Unnamed.

[Piers Morgan]

At least you've been honest that you would feel differently about it if it was the other way around. I mean, this is the point I would make hen about this. And I think this applies to a lot of the stuff in this war. There is a lot of double standard going on. Right. A lot of people are much more angry if it's their side in this kind of situation than if it's the other side. I remember Gail Gaddo getting hammered for being pro Israeli in Hollywood. And whatever you think of her, and I'm not a massive fan of hers, but she got a disproportionate amount of abuse for being pro Israeli to people who've spoken out on the side of the Palestinians. So I do think there's a lot of hypocrisy flies around about the condemnation that goes on here. And I do wonder if Ms. Rachel had been spouting pro Israeli sentiment and people believed it was disproportionate to her pro Palestinian, whether everyone currently racing to defend her would have defended her.

[Hen Mazi]

Right? Of course not. And I think the problem is that Ms. Rachel has, what, 18 million subscribers on her YouTube channel. It was the most successful Netflix opening show. Her children show. And I think Jewish parents are really afraid because they're showing their kids how to write the letter M. And on the side, they're getting a video with Muat EZ Aziza, who celebrates Hamas. That's very concerning. And to pretend that this is not the issue is just to, you know, it's the same old tired talking points that it's the Israeli government. It's just they're trying to silence us. I don't think we're trying to silence Ms. Rachel or anyone. We're raising real concerns.

[Piers Morgan]

Do you accept 10 as many people will be watching this saying, but Anna's got a point, right? The number of Palestinian kids that have been killed is exponentially higher than any number of Israeli children who've been killed in this war.

[Hen Mazi]

Absolutely.

[Piers Morgan]

By a multiple of tens of thousands. Right?

[Hen Mazi]

Yeah. I'm just not going to count bodies. For me, every child that is killed is horrible. And yes, I fully condemn the fact that Palestinian children were killed in Gaza and there's still conflict going on. And I hope with all my heart that there will be a different government, that the Israeli government would be replaced and that we will have a better future for both Israelis and Palestinian children. And I fully agree that there's double standards and hypocrisy on both sides. I think people that are just pulling us to the sides and to the extreme like Anna and others, are not helping us. Israelis and Palestinians deserve peace and coexistence and humanity. That's all.

[Piers Morgan]

Right, well, let me bring in another guest. Stop anti Semitism. Put Guy Christiansen, a pro Palestinian TikTok influencer, on the list too, because he openly endorsed and glorified the murder of two Israeli embassy employees in a Washington D.C. shooting. So the timeline of that was in May this year. A gunman named Elias Rodriguez murdered two employees of the Israeli embassy in Washington D.C. reportedly chanted free, Free Palestine. Now, you didn't want to appear as part of the panel, Guy Christiansen. So we'll get their reaction after I've spoken to you.

[Jake Donnelly]

But.

[Piers Morgan]

But it's very hard to not conclude that you were anti Semitic. I mean, you were actively supporting an attack on two innocent people in Washington D.C. sorry, how is that anti Semitic?

[Guy Christiansen]

Elias Rodriguez was a natural reaction to genocide.

[Piers Morgan]

Well, no, you're actively supporting somebody cold bloodedly murdering two civilians.

[Guy Christiansen]

They're not civilians. They work for the state of Israel.

[Piers Morgan]

Well, they are civilians. They're not in the military.

[Guy Christiansen]

They work for the state of Israel and they advance the Zionist project on behalf of the state.

[Piers Morgan]

Criminal. Any diplomat anywhere in the world is fair game for you.

[Guy Christiansen]

I mean, it's fair game for Israel.

[Piers Morgan]

Right, so. But that's anti Semitism, isn't it? You're targeting them because they're Israeli diplomats.

[Guy Christiansen]

They're not. That is not the same as being Jewish. In fact, I think neither were Jewish. One of them was Christian and the other I believe with was atheist. And they did work for the state of Israel. So I stand by what I said. I do not condemn that. But Piers, I hope you know that we have a. You know, you do you know what the ACLU is? Hope you do.

[Piers Morgan]

The what?

[Guy Christiansen]

The aclu?

[Piers Morgan]

Yes, of course.

[Guy Christiansen]

Yeah, of course. We have a case going on suing over the fallout from this because I was being smeared as violent, inciting violence, celebrating this murder. None of which is true. And we're going to win this case.

[Piers Morgan]

Well, I think you. I mean, look, I don't want to preempt your case, but when you say. When you say this murderer was not a terrorist, he's a resistance fighter. And when you restate your belief that the shooting's being used to weaponize violence against Palestinians, but we will meet it with our own greater resistance and escalation.

[Guy Christiansen]

Clearly white people's resistance happens.

[Piers Morgan]

Clearly people will see that as a direct threat against other civilians.

[Guy Christiansen]

Why do you think resistance happens?

[Piers Morgan]

It's not resistance. It's terrorism. When you cold bloodedly murder people in the street in D.C. as a response to a war that's going on in Gaza, that is terrorism.

[Guy Christiansen]

It's reaction to the genocide. He couldn't bear it anymore.

[Piers Morgan]

No, no, it's just cold bloody murder. That's what it is.

[Guy Christiansen]

It's murder. I agree with that.

[Piers Morgan]

You agree it's murder.

[Guy Christiansen]

Anyone? I agree it's murder.

[Piers Morgan]

Okay, so then he's a terrorist then, right?

[Guy Christiansen]

No, he's not a terrorist.

[Piers Morgan]

What is he? He's a murderer.

[Guy Christiansen]

Yeah, sure, he's a murderer.

[Piers Morgan]

And he's murdering.

[Guy Christiansen]

I'm not gonna condemn him.

[Piers Morgan]

Do you accept he was murdering? Do you accept he was murdering?

[Guy Christiansen]

He said he couldn't bear watching torn apart Palestinian children.

[Piers Morgan]

Wait a minute, wait a minute. Do you accept that he was murdering for political reasons?

[Guy Christiansen]

Yeah, I believe so.

[Piers Morgan]

Okay, then that's a terrorist. That's literally the definition of a terrorist. You don't even know what terrorism is, do you? Well, Guy, I'm sorry, and it's not funny. With all due respect, you obviously have no idea what the word terrorism means. That is literally the definition.

[Guy Christiansen]

The word terrorism means when you murder.

[Piers Morgan]

Somebody for political motivation.

[Guy Christiansen]

Just like the word Semite means nothing when they give it to someone like Ms. Rachel.

[Piers Morgan]

You've literally just called him a terrorist, having denied he was a terrorist rule. Right? You've literally just said, sorry, Guy, with respect. Let me speak just to be clear. When I said to you, did he murder these people? You said, yes. And when I said, did he do it for political reasons? You said, yes. That is the definition of terrorism. And yet your response at the time was, he's not a terrorist, he's a resistance fighter. And I put it to you, he's.

[Guy Christiansen]

Not a terrorist, he's a resistor.

[Piers Morgan]

I put it to you. You have now admitted he's a terrorist.

[Guy Christiansen]

No, he's a resistance fighter. It's very clear.

[Piers Morgan]

Resistance fighters are not.

[Guy Christiansen]

The Palestinian resistance is not terrorists. They're resistance fighters.

[Piers Morgan]

He murdered for political reasons. He's a terrorist by your own definition.

[Guy Christiansen]

I mean, October 7th happened for political reasons. I don't understand what this gotcha is. It's not really a gotcha. Terrorist was not a gotcha.

[Piers Morgan]

I just don't think you know what a terrorist is. So when you say he wasn't a terrorist, actually, literally, he was a terrorist. He was waging terror by murdering people for political reasons. That is terrorism. You don't know that, do you?

[Guy Christiansen]

No. It's a reaction to genocide. I condemn the genocide.

[Piers Morgan]

That's not what you said in your office.

[Guy Christiansen]

The genocide. Or else we're going to see more attacks like this.

[Piers Morgan]

People are going to watch this back and go, hang on a second. You said he wasn't a terrorist, but he murdered. He murdered two diplomats.

[Guy Christiansen]

Seen it any longer? So of course things like this are going to happen. We must end the genocide so we end all of the violence that comes with it, right? You know, this genocide is poison on the world.

[Piers Morgan]

So now you've established he committed an act of terrorism. Do you condemn it?

[Guy Christiansen]

No, I do not condemn it. I stand by.

[Piers Morgan]

So you support terrorism.

What's funny about that?

[Guy Christiansen]

Because that's not what I said.

[Piers Morgan]

You supported somebody who murdered people by your own admission for political reasons, by your own admission, who committed an act of terrorism. Literally. Literally. That is what terrorism is.

[Guy Christiansen]

I did not think. I did not think it was useful to condemn him because it's a reaction to the genocide.

[Piers Morgan]

So you don't condemn terrorists?

[Guy Christiansen]

I don't. This is a gotcha. I don't condemn.

[Piers Morgan]

It's not a gotcha. You're gotcha ing yourself.

[Guy Christiansen]

Resistance. I don't condemn suicide.

[Piers Morgan]

You've literally admitted he murdered people for political reasons. That is a terrorist. And so you support terrorists.

[Guy Christiansen]

Resistance fighter. He's a resistance fighter.

[Piers Morgan]

But you admitted he's a terrorist.

[Guy Christiansen]

I didn't admit he's a terrorist. Pierce, can we move on?

[Piers Morgan]

If somebody murders someone for political reasons, they are a terrorist. Do you not know that?

[Guy Christiansen]

He's a resistance fighter. Elias Rodriguez.

[Piers Morgan]

But he murdered people for political reasons. That's what you told me.

[Guy Christiansen]

Yeah, I believe he murdered for political reasons.

[Piers Morgan]

So he's a terrorist.

[Ms. Rachel]

No.

[Guy Christiansen]

No, he's not a terrorist.

[Piers Morgan]

You're very confused, aren't you, guy this word.

[Guy Christiansen]

No, I'm not confused.

[Piers Morgan]

You're very confused because you don't seem to understand what a terrorist is. So it's not surprising that you're confused about whether you should condemn it or not.

[Guy Christiansen]

Do you believe the Palestinian resistance fighters are terrorists? All of them peers?

[Piers Morgan]

What was that? Sorry.

[Guy Christiansen]

Do you believe the Palestinian resistance fighters are all terrorist peers?

[Piers Morgan]

I think all the ones that invaded Israel October 7th were terrorists, yeah.

[Guy Christiansen]

Okay. So you cannot resist the Occupation, the domination, the genocide, and apartheid.

[Piers Morgan]

Terrorism is terrorism. Wherever it happens, whatever the reason, it's terrorism.

3,000 Hamas terrorists invaded Israel and committed mass murder. It was an act of grotesque terrorism. Anyone who says differently is defending terrorism.

[Guy Christiansen]

Most of the people they murdered were Israeli war criminals, IDF soldiers.

[Piers Morgan]

Actually, most of them were civilians, innocent people. And they kidnapped. They kidnapped a baby, they kidnapped Holocaust survivors. It was disgusting and an act of.

[Guy Christiansen]

How many brutal terrorists.

[Piers Morgan]

And your attempt to justify it and defend it is actually making you completely counterterrorism.

[Guy Christiansen]

Do you condemn Israel for holding thousands of Palestinian hostages right now?

[Piers Morgan]

I've condemned Israel for many things in this war, yes. I'm happy to condemn genocide. I'm happy to condemn both sides. What I find I'm struggling, really struggling with is a lot of people have ideological views they spew out thinking they know something about.

[Guy Christiansen]

It's just a humanity versus evil.

[Piers Morgan]

That's what this is about. I know, but then on the other hand. On the other hand, you think it's fine to murder innocent people in the street in D.C. for political reasons, which is an act of terrorism. You think that's fine. So don't preach to me. With all due respect, do not preach to me about humanity when you have zero humanity about the victims of that terrorist attack.

[Guy Christiansen]

I can't believe you would ever say that.

[Piers Morgan]

Well, your humanity is only one sided.

[Guy Christiansen]

I would not encourage that.

[Piers Morgan]

Your humanity is one sided. Yeah.

[Guy Christiansen]

In fact, I think it was contrary to the movement, as you understand. I was worried about it sparking or being used to justify a crackdown. So why would I encourage it or want to?

[Piers Morgan]

You literally said, we will meet it with our own greater resistance and escalation.

[Guy Christiansen]

Do you know what I advocate for on my platform?

[Piers Morgan]

I know what you're advocating for on my platform, so you don't. You're defending political murder, which is terrorism, literally. That's what you're doing. You just don't realize it.

[Guy Christiansen]

I know. I just didn't condemn it.

[Piers Morgan]

That's all.

[Guy Christiansen]

Piers. That's a reaction to genocide.

[Piers Morgan]

So you don't condemn terrorism.

[Guy Christiansen]

And I stand.

[Piers Morgan]

Just one last time to be clear.

[Guy Christiansen]

I don't condemn and I will never.

[Piers Morgan]

You accept it was politically motivated murder, but you don't condemn.

[Guy Christiansen]

Two years into this genocide. This is disgusting.

[Piers Morgan]

Okay, just to be clear, one last chance I'll give you. No, I don't need another chance.

[Guy Christiansen]

I'm not gonna.

[Piers Morgan]

You've admitted it was politically motivated murder, which is terrorism. Do you condemn it?

[Guy Christiansen]

I do not condemn it.

[Piers Morgan]

Okay. Guy Christiansen. Thank you.

[Hen Mazi]

Very much.

[Piers Morgan]

Let's go back to the panel. Well, I don't think he showered himself in glory there, did he, Jake Donnelly? Because he seemed to have no concept of what terrorism is. He literally admitted the guy had committed an act of terrorism. Politically motivated murder. Wouldn't condemn it. Cause he doesn't think that's terrorism.

[Jake Donnelly]

If anybody on my side performed that poorly, I would ask them to get off social media, never be a voice for my side ever again. And I think it's actually phenomenally hilarious that the guy committed honestly, career suicide just now because he did his own fake death hoax when he was back in high school. So you know what? It's the second time.

[Piers Morgan]

You know, let me bring Ana in. The thing is, I thought that was pathetic, that interview. This is a guy who doesn't even really understand what the word terrorism means. So, all right, he's what he is. But I can understand why somebody like him would be on that list after that interview. I don't understand why you are. I've never heard you be, to my mind, anti Semitic. I don't think Ms. Rachel is anti Semitic. I think she was probably ill advised to platform Motaz Azaza. I can accept that criticism of her, but her statement seems pretty unequivocal to me. You know, my view is anti Semites don't hide it. They're quite happy to be anti Semitic. They're quite happy to say they hate Jewish people. Right? I mean, it's a bit like all these things. It's like proper racists don't hide it. They're quite happy to say they hate people because of their skin color. Proper homophobes don't hide. So this is why I hate these tags being applied to people when they're making legitimate criticism of governments or institutions or whatever. There's a world of difference. And if someone says emphatically, I'm not anti Semitic, I have no problem with Jewish people, then I don't know why we wouldn't believe them unless they've said things to the contrary.

[Anna Kasparian]

What? Well, Pierce, let me give you an analogy because I think this will help you kind of understand my worldview and how I grew up, how I was raised. So I'm Armenian, at least my heritage is. Both my parents are Armenian. And growing up, of course, we spoke about the Armenian genocide. And I've heard all of the stories. I know what happened to my ancestors in the Armenian genocide. And when I was in fifth grade, for the first time in my life, I met the first Turkish person, a Turkish student by the name of Tanya who came to America and was one of my classmates because I knew about what happened to Armenians in the genocide, I started bullying her. And I got sent home. And my parents, they're a little old school, so corporal punishment is not frowned upon. But my parents basically told me, they're like, what you did is disgusting. Hating someone simply because they're Turkish is wrong. And what you have to do is look at the system, the government, the entities that carried it out. You can't blame it on the entire Turkish population. This is just a little girl. And what you did is wrong and hateful. In fact, you're lowering yourself to the same type of thinking that the genociders had engaged in. And I kept that lesson with me throughout my entire life. So when I had an opportunity to work at the Young Turks, and I knew that even Cenk Uygur, okay, who I love and respect, did not acknowledge the Armenian genocide, I had a decision to make. Do I hate this man and just write him off, or do I engage in conversation? And throughout the years, through the debates we had, he absolutely changed his mind, realized he was wrong, now acknowledges the Armenian Genocide. I. But the point that I'm trying to make with that is you have to judge people as individuals. If you don't do that, then you are guilty of the same hate, the same racism, the same Islamophobia that the current Israeli government is engaging in. And so I refuse to let people win and turn me into a hateful, disgusting bigot. That is not who I am. I know who I am in my heart, and I'm always gonna speak out against injustice, including the injustice of two embassy workers getting shot down in cold blood.

[Piers Morgan]

Right?

[Anna Kasparian]

No one should refer to that as freedom fighting, period.

[Piers Morgan]

No, that is terrorism. And I think he admitted it without even realizing he admitted it. You know, some people on this list, Stu Peters, for example, in January 2024, said the gas chambers, the crematorium so often discussed, they were destroyed at the end of World War II if they were ever there in the first place, and questioned the official death toll of the Holocaust. That is antisemitism. When you deny the Holocaust, when you try and suggest that these gas chambers and crematoriums may never have been there in the first place, you are genuinely, in my opinion, anti Semitic and thoroughly deserve to be on that list. But the other names on there, I think, devalue the credibility of this list. And that's just the people I know about. Thank you all very much for the debate. I appreciate it.

[Jake Donnelly]

Thank you, Piers.

[Piers Morgan]

Piers Morgan Uncensored is proudly independent. The only boss around here is me. If you enjoy our show, we ask for only one simple thing. Hit subscribe on YouTube and follow Piers Morgan Uncensored on Spotify and Apple podcasts. And in return, we will continue our mission to inform, irritate and entertain. And we'll do it all for free. Independent Uncensored media has never been more critical, and we couldn't do it without you.