← Piers Morgan Uncensored
Piers Morgan Uncensored
"Total PSYCHOS!" Trump Vows Revenge As Iran Shoots Down Apache Helicopter
01:12:00
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- [00:01]
Dana Lash
What did you steal?
- [00:03]
Alex Gandler
Secrets.
- [00:04]
Scott Horton
Disclosure Day is Steven Spielberg's best film in 20 years.
- [00:08]
Piers Morgan
Are they people? No. Are they human? Oh, my God.
- [00:14]
Scott Horton
Spielberg does this better than anybody in history.
- [00:18]
Piers Morgan
I can see it.
- [00:19]
Alex Gandler
They're coming.
- [00:22]
Piers Morgan
Disclosure day.
- [00:23]
Scott Horton
Rated PG13. Some material may be inappropriate for children under 13. In theaters Friday. Get tickets now.
- [00:30]
Piers Morgan
If I tell him Netanyahu to do something, he does it. Is that true?
- [00:35]
Alex Gandler
Well, shut on, Pierce. Right straight into it.
- [00:38]
Piers Morgan
Yeah.
- [00:39]
Josh Hammer
Thomas Massie, Marjorie Taylor Greene. All these propagandists say that the tail is wagging the dog. Israel's driving America to conflict. No, they're not.
- [00:48]
Peter Oborn
Every single community in between Tai Bay and the and that and the Jordan Valley had been ethnically cleansed.
- [00:55]
Matt Tardeo
No talk of the Christian genocide. No talk of the pay for slave program. No talk of the PA pushing and wanting to kill people.
- [01:02]
Peter Oborn
By the way, this is pure nonsense. This is a genocide carried out by Muslims and Christians. That's just fantasy.
- [01:07]
Piers Morgan
You are effing crazy. Everyone hates you now. Everyone hates Israel because of this.
- [01:13]
Alex Gandler
This is a conversation among many conversations between friends.
- [01:17]
Piers Morgan
I don't call my friends effing crazy.
- [01:19]
Alex Gandler
You don't?
- [01:20]
Piers Morgan
Everybody hates you. No.
- [01:21]
Alex Gandler
No.
- [01:21]
Piers Morgan
Okay, well. The US Bombed Iranian military sites overnight after Iran shot down a U.S. apache helicopter near the Hormuz Strait. Iran's responded by attacking US Bases across the Gulf. Neither side is returning to all out war for now, but it's surely a sign of the long road ahead as the whole Middle east deals with the unintended consequences of a war the US started but can't finish. Deal or no deal, there could now be years of tit for tat strikes in a region which is suddenly governed by suspicion and resentment. The US Launched an audacious and successful rescue mission for the two servicemen whose helicopter was hit yesterday. It's a measure of President Trump's desperation to get out of this Iran war that he initially said the downing of his Apache gunship was, quote, not a big deal. And on the subject of deals, Trump again predicted that a great deal with Iran is just days away. Well, the prediction markets suggest otherwise. Polymark has a meager 4% chance of a permanent peace deal by the end of this week. It's not clear if the President is a polymarket user, but if he is, the following clip indicates that he'll have wasted quite a lot of money.
- [02:27]
Donald Trump
We have had very, very strong talks. We'll see where they lead. We have points, major points of agreement. They are begging to make a deal. Not me. They're begging to make a deal. And anybody that saw what was happening over there would understand why they want to make a deal. I think it's close to over here. I mean, I view it as very close to over. They want to make a deal very badly. We're going to end that war very quickly. They want to make a deal so badly, they're tired. It's going to happen and it's going to happen fast. And you're going to see oil prices plummet. They're going to come down. There's so much oil out there, they're going to come plummeting down. First of all, there's no deal that's good enough because the media will cover it. And we're making a great deal. We're going to make a great deal. We'll just go back and finish it off militarily. But this would go faster. And we're in the final throes of what will be a very, very good deal that will not allow in any way, shape or form nuclear weapons, et cetera. And the strait will open up federal war. It will open up immediately upon signing. Recipients with.
- [03:31]
Piers Morgan
So as we can see, Trump has been promising a great end imminent deal to end the war for pretty much all of 14 weeks of the four to six week war that we were promised. In fact, he said it 37 times, according to CNN. And while the US president is guilty of promising deals which are not deals, the Israelis have been busy promoting promising ceasefires which do not involve the ceasing of fire. In the 55 days since a US brokered ceasefire came into force in Lebanon, the IDF has hit Lebanon with three and a half thousand airstrikes. Little wonder that there is no deal. And no wonder the President is now clearly losing patience with Benjamin Netanyahu. It's all getting a bit much for the war's foremost cheerleader, Mark Levin, who was previously hailed by the President as the true voice of maga.
- [04:12]
Mark Levin
I don't know why the President of the United States feels they need to keep going to left wing reporters and talking about confidential conversations he has with the Prime Minister of Israel. And I don't know why he keeps bashing the Prime Minister of Israel who's trying to protect his country and his own people. I know the President is deeply desperate for a deal. The Iranians know he's deeply desperate for a deal. The whole world knows he's deeply desperate for a deal. Got it.
- [04:37]
Piers Morgan
Well, when you've lost Mark Levin, to coin a phrase, Trump may well be desperate for a deal. But from where I'm sitting. He's not holding many cards. Well, joining us now to debate all this is Matt Tardeo, the combat veteran and host of Speak the Truth podcast Scott Horton, author of Provoked josh Hammer, the senior editor at large at Newsweek, and Peter Oborn, the veteran political journalist and author of the new book Britain's Role in the Destruction of Gaza. Okay, let's start with Scott Horton. Welcome back to uncensored. We've talked a lot, Scott, during this war. As we're talking, Iran has claimed that the US attacks in the last 24 hours destroyed two reservoirs, choking off water supply to 20,000 people. If that is true, of course, attacking civilian infrastructure, if it's done deliberately, would be illegal under international law. So the stakes once again are getting very high here because, of course, Iran may respond with a tit for tat attack on one of its Gulf neighbors and attacking some of their reservoirs. And so it escalates. And so the war, rather than reaching a deal, goes the other way. Where do you think we are with this?
- [05:46]
Scott Horton
Well, I don't know the facts of what got hit in Iran there, but if that's right, then obviously, as you say, that represents the potential for much worse escalation. It seemed like Trump, you know, at least half of his statements, as you said, he sort of played down the Apache incident, at least in one statement. It seems like he's trying to keep the temperature cool while talks continue. He obviously seems to have a pattern of bluffing over how close he is to a deal and how willing Iran is to give up whatever he says. I don't know exactly what to make of it, but there's an article by the Iran specialist David Sanger in the New York Times today that says that they have at least I don't think they really addressed the Strait of Hormuz in there. But on the nuclear issue, he says that they're relatively close to a deal which includes Iran not giving up enrichment entirely, but climbing down and giving like a 15 year moratorium on enrichment and, you know, rolling back their program to just the very bare bit down, blending their stockpile of uranium to much lower levels and all of that which would represent the ayatollah, or I guess he's not Ayatollah, but the supreme leader and his government climbing down quite a bit on their nuclear program if not giving up enrichment entirely. Getting pretty close. As I said before on your show one year ago, Netanyahu and especially Trump called the ayatollah's bluff on their latent nuclear deterrent and said okay, well, race to a bomb now, not that they had, but he said now you can't and really did set their program back very far. And remember, on the eve of war on February 27, the Omani Foreign minister, or, I'm sorry, I forget the, the negotiator from Oman, I forgot the exact title of the guy. He said that the Iranians at that time were willing to climb down and give at least a five year moratorium on all enrichment, which seems to be maybe why they launched the war, because Witkoff was going to solve the alleged nuclear issue before they could have a chance to start dropping the bomb. So they went ahead and went for it.
- [07:59]
Piers Morgan
Right. Josh Ham, welcome back to Uncensored the New York Post, which has been resolutely behind this war in Iran and very supportive of Trump. Well, their editorial board yesterday said the president needs to show he's serious or Tehran will keep trying to play him for a sucker, as it has every president going back to Jimmy Carter. A country that's very close to sealing a deal in good faith doesn't escalate against its negotiating partner. This leaves us wondering which presidential advisers are leading him down this garden path to likely humiliation. And that's a pretty extraordinary editorial board summary of where we are here for Trump to read. And there is a theory that actually what he said today about they've taken too long to negotiate a deal that would have been great for them, now they'll have to pay the price. That was because of this New York Post editorial, and that's why he said what he said. But when you've got the Post saying that they'd be one of your biggest cheerleaders, does this not give you cause for concern about the way this war is going?
- [09:08]
Josh Hammer
Well, Pierce, I love the New York Post. Not entirely sure that a New York Post editorial is going to be so powerful as to sway the president to say or to do something. I mean, all of the more credit, frankly, to the New York Post if that is the case. But on the broader point that the Post is making, making that Mark Levin was making in the clip that you share with us, I think that there is more than a kernel of truth here. The president declared a ceasefire, a premature cease fire, from my perspective, on April 8th. That was over two months ago now. And we gave diplomacy a try. We sent J.D. vance halfway around the world to Pakistan. They negotiated for almost 24 hours. JD Vance flocked to the side by Steve Wyckoff and Jared Kushner. It didn't work out. We were Going to go there again a second time. Canceled at the last minute because there was no one on the other side, frankly, to negotiate. I don't understand exactly what is going on, Piers. I am personally just confused. I am actually confused as to what President Trump at this point is trying to do in this conflict. At the outset of the conflict, it seems to me that the goals of Epic Fury were reasonably clear. Those four goals were, one, the reopening of the strait, Two, the ending of the Iranian regime's financing of its terror proxies all throughout the region. Three, the destruction, or at least the severe debilitation of the ballistic missile and drone program and four, ferreting out of the country in some fashion the enriched uranium, at least that which is enriched up to 90%. There's roughly half a ton of that 90% enriched uranium. I have not changed my own personal view as to the necessity of accomplishing those four goals.
- [10:37]
Piers Morgan
And, well, on the first goal, you said, I mean, just to correct you there, but if it wasn't to reopen the Straight of Hormuz. The Straight of Hormuz was open before this war started. Right. The problem is it's been shut ever since. So it wasn't that one of the goals was not to reopen it. And in fact, if you know, the real problem here is that the goalpost changed pretty significantly in those first few days and weeks. The timeline kept changing. It was going to be two to three weeks, then four to five, then six to seven. Here we are, 15th week. There's no sign of any deal here and actually no real indication that the Iranians even really want to do one, because at the moment, they've got everybody over a barrel. Corpus Tradif, Hormuz. They've got all their Gulf State neighbors extremely twitchy about any attacks that may come their way, which has proved highly effective in terms of a strategy. And I'm looking at Donald Trump with these constant stream of statements on social media, none of which then materialize. And I'm looking at a guy that I've known a long time who I think is desperate to get out of this, but no longer has the lever to do it. And that should be a real concern, particularly to Americans. I mean, I just, you know, the moment, where's the win? I just don't see it.
- [11:55]
Josh Hammer
So, look, there clearly have been incremental and perhaps even more than incremental victories. The Iranian Air Force has been decimated. The Iranian Navy has been decimated. More than that, I tend to agree with you, Piers. Frankly, that the job here is actually not finished. And I do think that the President is looking at rising gas prices. He's looking at a rough and flat report that just came out this morning and he's looking at a midterm election that perhaps is looking slightly less rosy than it was just a few months ago. Now it's worth noting that the Republican victory in this mid decade redistricting battle is going to help out Republicans chances of retaining Mike Johnson as Speaker come January 2027. But certainly the fact that the Iran war is not being handled in the fashion that I and others I think thought it should be handled, I think is having effects. Look, the best way all along here is to get gas prices down, get inflation down, was to rip the band aid off quickly, was to not take your foot off of the jugular back on April 8th there. It's been two months now of this song and dances back and forth. Is it a war? Is it a ceasefire? Frankly we have no idea. And fundamentally, again I think Levin and the Post are right that the President is giving off an Obama esque air of desperation for a deal. The best course of action at this time is to apply diplomatic, economic and indeed action military pressure forcing their hands like never before.
- [13:09]
Piers Morgan
Peter Oborg, welcome to Uncensored, your debut. Great to have you here in the studio in London. You've just come back from the West Bank. Just today Amnesty International released a 150 page report which concluded the Israeli government is carrying out a state led campaign of ethnic cleansing in the west bank which can't be blamed solely on rogue settlers or extremist ministers. And the report took aim at the ineffective words and half measures of for the UK government to help tackle crimes and settlements and its refusal to ban trade or investment into elements of the occupation. Now this all comes with a backdrop of rising unpopularity for Israel around the world. For the first time in living memory, more Americans are negative about Israel than pro. You're seeing the same pattern with a wider gap in the uk. There's a real danger here that the actions of this particular Israeli government, and I say those words very advisedly, that the actions of this particular government are turning Israel into global pariahs. What is your having been to the west bank, what is your assessment?
- [14:20]
Peter Oborn
Well, I think what I've noticed about everything you've just said and your colleagues is that none of them actually mentioned Palestinians. I was in the west bank and I was witnessing live every day the ethnic cleansing, the pogroms, murders, barbarism. I stood in Taipei which last night was subject to yet another attack, one of the very few remaining Christian places in the West Bank. And you could look from Taipei, which is in the west of the west bank, all the way across to the Jordan Valley. Every single community in between Taipei and the Jordan Valley had been ethnically cleansed, erased, according to Beth Salem. And I think their first figures are out of date. 59 communities have been wiped out. And so the settlers are imposing a reign of terror against the Palestinians in the West Bank. And so I'm not had to say, does it affect Israel's reputation in the world? Well, the world urgently needs to act to stop the terrorism, the state backed terrorism which is going on in the west bank, and by the way, the continued killings and slaughter and annihilation of Gaza. And also the world needs to remember that people in Lebanon, three and a half thousand whom have been slaughtered since the ceasefire broke.
- [15:53]
Piers Morgan
The counter argument to all that you've just said, very powerfully as always, is that Israel is a very small country in a very big region which has for decades been on the receiving end of relentless terror attacks from Hamas, the Houthis, Hezbollah, with Iran as its kind of octopus, stretching its tentacles of funding and so on and arms to these terror groups to just continue to try and by their own admission, wipe out Israel. Take them out. What do you say to those who say that they're defending themselves?
- [16:27]
Peter Oborn
Look, I mean, first start with the west bank where the Palestinian Authority, which is the governing body, is actually on the side of the Israeli government. So there's no terror threat to Israel. From the villagers who I met who were being terrorized by Israel, move to Gaza, that is, you know, there was a ceasefire there that was smashed by the Israelis and the killings are just going on, I mean, and they're getting worse. And finally the people in South Lebanon whose lives are being trashed, whose buildings are being smashed, that isn't. They don't pose. Three and a half thousand people have been killed, 8,000 since October 7th. What's the reciprocal number? I mean, tiny. And so that is what Israel says. I would just give a little bit of advice to Israel if it wants to. Really, it has to make peace in the region. It's got to end this endless campaign of war and slaughter aimed at all of its nearest neighbors. And I think the reason it's not doing is that Netanyahu, the Prime Minister, is terrified for his political future. He hasn't achieved a damn thing and he's wreaking carnage and doing terrible damage to return to Your question to the
- [17:38]
Piers Morgan
reputation of Israel and on Iran. Before I come to Matt, on Iran, do you see a moral justification if you want to bring actual peace to the region in trying to stop Iran developing a nuclear weapon, given the high risk, if they did that, they may want to carry out what they, again, a lot of their top people openly admit they would love to get rid of Israel.
- [18:04]
Peter Oborn
The first answer, of course, is that Obama sorted that issue with the deal 12 years ago and that was being monitored by the Atomic Energy Authority. There was no issues. It was working until it was torn to shreds by Donald Trump. And the second point is the attack on Iran three and a half months ago, that was under international law, a war crime because it wasn't supported by the United Nations. There was no threat from Iran at the time. This makes what in the Nuremberg trials after World War II called the ultimate crime because it is the crime which embraces all the other crimes. So the aggressive party here is Israel with regard to Iran. Iran is of course, as it is entitled to do, responded.
- [18:53]
Piers Morgan
Okay, Matt Tardeo, I know you won't be agreeing with all of what you just heard, but I have so many
- [19:00]
Matt Tardeo
comments to make on that one.
- [19:01]
Piers Morgan
Pierce, then far away.
- [19:03]
Matt Tardeo
I mean, he just, he just, he just proves that just because you go to the west bank doesn't make you an expert. Also that just because the UN doesn't agree with something doesn't automatically make anything a war crime. I believe he said the Palestinian Authority is the ruling authority over inside the west bank, sir. Who governs Area C in the West Bank? Who controls Area C in the West Bank?
- [19:22]
Piers Morgan
You can respond, Peter.
- [19:23]
Peter Oborn
Yeah, the west bank is governed by the. Of course, the Israeli is who controls
- [19:30]
Matt Tardeo
the Dead Sea and the West Bank. Who controls.
- [19:32]
Peter Oborn
I don't answer who. Let me educate you about.
- [19:36]
Matt Tardeo
You're not willing to ask. Abmc.
- [19:40]
Piers Morgan
Hang on, hang on. You asked him.
- [19:42]
Matt Tardeo
I did. He's not answering the question.
- [19:45]
Piers Morgan
Please, Matt, you asked him a question, let him respond, then I'll come back to you.
- [19:48]
Peter Oborn
In the coalition, you will be aware of the coalition agreement struck between Benjamin Netanyahu's Likud and the religious right parties after the Netanyahu was clinging to power because he hadn't secured a majority. He did a deal with the religious right, but specifically, really Smotridge and Smotridge. He handed control over all of the West Bank. And you know this because you're a well educated man, you study these things. All of the west bank to Smotridge in what was called the Settlement administration. He took control away from the Israeli army, the idf, which under international law, as the occupying power, has to govern with the interests of the people of the west bank at heart. But he removed that. The west bank is now under Israel civilian control. An Israeli politician, smartridge. And he is responsible to the Israeli people and particular to one group of the Israeli people, the settlers. And he's responsible to them for his governments, the West Bank. That is why the settlements have exploded, the outposts have exploded, the carnage that's been created. That's what's happening.
- [20:58]
Piers Morgan
So.
- [20:58]
Peter Oborn
So that's. I hope he's learned a few things from Mike.
- [21:01]
Matt Tardeo
So. So you, you didn't. You didn't directly answer the question. Which is. Area C is governed by the Israelis. Area A is by the Palestinian Authority. Area B is underneath joint control area. That happens to fall underneath Area C, which most Christians would know as Bethlehem. How many Christians currently reside in Bethlehem? Do you know the answer to that?
- [21:18]
Peter Oborn
I was.
- [21:19]
Matt Tardeo
That's very important.
- [21:20]
Peter Oborn
Diminishing numbers.
- [21:21]
Matt Tardeo
But notice you talked about genocide when I was. When I was in Bethlehem. Like you have 95% Muslims over inside of Bethlehem right now.
- [21:31]
Piers Morgan
Why?
- [21:31]
Matt Tardeo
Because there was a genocide of Christians inside of Bethlehem underneath the Palestinian Authority. They've all been ran out. And I don't hear you talking about that. I don't hear you talking about the genocide of Christians and Jews that had occurred over inside the West Bank.
- [21:42]
Peter Oborn
There isn't a genocide.
- [21:44]
Matt Tardeo
Do you know where. Do you know where you. I've been in Bethlehem. Ramble. When were you last in Bethlehem, following me in there? Do you know? Yeah. You know, and that. Thank you for proving. Thank you for proving to me and pushing the propaganda further. Area A, Bethlehem, is governed by the Palestinian Authority. You know what happened to me, a retired green bera. If I tried to go to Bethlehem, do you think they would allow me to do it? No, the answer is no. I can go through Area C. I
- [22:11]
Peter Oborn
can travel through as a foreigner.
- [22:14]
Matt Tardeo
They absolutely don't want me there and I can't go in there. Yeah, you as a foreigner, because you're a propagandist. All right? You use the term occupation. That's the same thing that the. No, I'm going to. When you use the term occupation, that is also written down by the plo, which is where the PA was born out of. They are the ones that end up coining that term and you are the one that continues to push that term. Palestine was never a state. It's never been a state. It didn't come around the PLO until 1968, when they formally declared themselves. And they didn't even file with the UN until 1988. So for you to sit here and scream that all of a sudden Israel is occupying the west bank, in my opinion, is slightly offensive. Because prior to that.
- [22:51]
Piers Morgan
But how do you view. Let me ask you. But Matt, Matt, how do you view the very aggressive expansion of settlements in the West Bank? Because most people believe that these are war crimes being committed, that this should not be happening, and that it's criminal and that it's Smodridge that's driving it. I mean, my view of Ben GVIR and Smodridge is they're a pair of absolute psychopaths and that this is the problem with the current Israeli government. Netanyahu had to do this dirty deal with these guys to. To get power back. And they are absolute psychopaths. The kind of people. Ben Gvir, his wife, on his 50th birthday, gave him a cake with a noose on it. He posts gleefully. I agree with you. A video on Ben GVIR proving that they abused detainees. I mean, the guy's completely nuts, right? So what is your view of the aggressive expansion on the settlement? Expansion? Do you agree? It shouldn't be happening.
- [23:47]
Matt Tardeo
You have areas A, B and C, like I said. And what you have is you have some southern, which most of which that are pushing into the other areas that they're not authorized to be in, which the IDF does come in and stop and prevent those issues from happening. But it's odd to me that we're sitting here talking about random little groups of settlers over inside of the west bank instead of the Palestinian Authority that is still paying for terrorist attacks. Do you know that they actually. The pa, all right, actually continues after these people get released from prison. While they're in prison for killing Israelis, for killing Jews, for killing Christ, they actually continue to pay a stipend to the families. All right? So when their person that conducted their jihad is put away in prison, they continue to pay for that, and they continue to pay the families. And then when they get out, they bear the title of prisoner, which makes them exalted over inside of the pa. So it's odd to me that we're sitting here, we're complaining about a couple settlers that are encroaching on territory.
- [24:41]
Piers Morgan
It's not a couple. The scenes have been increasingly horrific.
- [24:44]
Matt Tardeo
It is a couple.
- [24:46]
Piers Morgan
It's not a couple.
- [24:47]
Matt Tardeo
And then what ends up happening? You see a video when it comes out, it's a couple.
- [24:50]
Piers Morgan
It's not A.
- [24:50]
Matt Tardeo
And then you again, you have the IDF that goes in and they stop it and they kick them right back out.
- [24:55]
Piers Morgan
Well, actually that's not really happening either. The whole point is the IDF appear
- [24:58]
Matt Tardeo
to it is happening. It's on.
- [25:00]
Piers Morgan
The IDF appear to be allowing a lot of this stuff to be going on. And I think that is part of the problem.
- [25:04]
Matt Tardeo
That's not true.
- [25:05]
Piers Morgan
It is true.
- [25:06]
Matt Tardeo
That's not true. You see videos of these things going on and again, they're not pointing out what area it's in, which is why I brought that up. Areas A, B and C, which is why it's so important to have that conversation. No talk of the Christian genocide. No talk of, of the paper slave program. No talk of the pa. You made your point.
- [25:22]
Piers Morgan
I want to bring in the other
- [25:23]
Peter Oborn
panelists because very briefly deal with this very, very quickly. I go to Bethlehem regularly and it's where Jesus was born. It's incredibly moving. And what you there is no, by the way, this is pure nonsense. There's a genocide carried out by Muslims or Christians. That's just fantasy. It's not true because I know the church people that I know the Christians there. I go to their homes. I was there recently. You've read the Bible, you've read the gospels. You know where the archbishop, the angels appear to the shepherds, the shepherd's fields, that's been taken over now steadily by Israeli settlers. It's very ugly. The Christians in Bethlehem are being compressed into less and less areas. It's very hard for them to exist economically. It's heartbreaking, actually. I just wanted to say that.
- [26:07]
Piers Morgan
Okay, Scott Horton, look.
- [26:10]
Matt Tardeo
And that area that he's talking about is actually on the border of area B, which they had gone over, and there's a slight portion of it which does fall underneath Area B.
- [26:18]
Piers Morgan
Let me bring Scott Horton in here. Scott, there's so much to talk about that's raging right now in the Middle east, whether it's the west bank, whether it's Gaza, whether it's Lebanon, whether it's Iran. You know, do you see any possibility that we get to peace here, that maybe all of this was necessary to somehow get somewhere where there could be legitimate peace?
- [26:45]
Scott Horton
No, that was what Connolly's Rice said in the Lebanon War in 2006. These are the birth pangs of a new Middle East. All we got to do is make it a little bit worse for a while and then that'll help it get better. But no, worse is worse and they absolutely should not have done, especially this war, but it's all of a piece. You know, they call it Israel's Seven Front War. I think one important development is that I believe is the first time that Iran directly hit Israel as retaliation for Israel bombing Beirut. And I don't. Not even necessarily Hezbollah targets, but whoever they were killing in Beirut. And I believe that's the first time the Iranians have gone ahead and intervened, you know, in that way. They never have done that for the Palestinians, for example. But that goes to show, I think, that they're feeling that they are in a greater position of strength compared to where they were. And I have to say real quick, too, as a factual matter, I'm sure Mr. Hammer simply accidentally misspoke when he said that Iran had a stockpile of 90% enriched uranium 235, when he meant to say 60%, which they have been enriching from up to 60% since 2021. But they never went above that. It was a bargaining.
- [27:59]
Josh Hammer
That's correct.
- [27:59]
Scott Horton
They never went up to weapons.
- [28:00]
Matt Tardeo
So you actually. That's not true. The IAEA actually documented above 80% enriched uranium. And there was two locations south of Tehran that the IAE had found that Iran. All you have to do is further, further, further, further. Okay, so how do you debate this then? How do you debate the Deputy Speaker? Let me just answer that one point. I'll let you Iranians. Hold on. Let me answer that one point, because this point is indisputable. No, no, this point is indisputable. The Deputy speaker of the Iranian Parliament went on Iranian state TV and admitted that they were trying to acquire a nuclear weapon. So go ahead.
- [28:31]
Scott Horton
Okay, well, the IAEA did find some. The IAEA did report that they found some isotopes above 80%. But then in the next report, they said they asked the Iranians about it. The Iranians explained it away, and the IAEA accepted their explanation just while they were reconfiguring some new deputies.
- [28:51]
Matt Tardeo
Okay, now do the deputies speak of the Parliament? Now do the deputies. I don't know about the Parliament admitting that they were trying to develop a nuclear weapon. Oh, so maybe you should look into it. Maybe you should look into that because he's on video that they were trying to develop it. They never admitted that they were never developed. And, and, and you did not. And you did not comment on the two undisclosed locations. Did you know? Was that dismissed away? No, it was not.
- [29:17]
Scott Horton
I have.
- [29:17]
Matt Tardeo
There's no excuse. They were not. They were not abiding by the npt. They were not abiding by Any of it.
- [29:24]
Scott Horton
Well, that's not true. And in fact, I have brought up unbidden on this very show the developments.
- [29:31]
Matt Tardeo
That's why they had two undisclosed locations.
- [29:34]
Piers Morgan
Isn't it also true though, Matt, that as a consequence, that is documented by the iaeh? Let me ask you a question. Is it not also true that as a consequence of Donald Trump ripping up the Obama deal, the Iran deal in 2018, that Iran now has 10 times the amount of enriched uranium and is therefore able to make 10 times as many nuclear bombs as it could have done before that? So how has that been a successful strategy?
- [30:04]
Matt Tardeo
That is as far as we know, what they've disclosed to the IAEA. You know, when we started to develop the GBU 57 all the way back in 2007, that's that 30,000 pound bunker buster that we used on Isfahan and Natanz last time. We started developing that back in 2007 specifically for that mission. Why do you think we were developing it for that mission? Because the United States had intelligence that Iran was developing nuclear weapons. No other president in history.
- [30:29]
Scott Horton
That's not true.
- [30:29]
Matt Tardeo
Minus Obama thought it was. Okay, no other president. It is true. Look it up. You didn't even know about the CIA deputy Foreign Minister. You didn't know about. What I said is not true. You go look, go specifically for that mission. Yeah. And what president in history besides Obama decided it would be a good idea to allow Iran to enrich uranium? The fact is Donald Trump didn't bomb. That was done underneath the Obama administration. Yeah, W. Bush refused to bomb anything about the cover operations.
- [31:02]
Piers Morgan
Let me bring the others in. I want to bring.
- [31:04]
Scott Horton
Tried to convince W. Bush to go to war in 2007 and 8 and he told them no.
- [31:09]
Piers Morgan
Yeah, well, we know, we know that actually.
- [31:12]
Matt Tardeo
What year is that?
- [31:13]
Piers Morgan
We know that Netanyahu trying to get every American president to do what he's just done in Iran anyway.
- [31:17]
Scott Horton
They've never had a nuclear weapons program. They've never enriched a weapons grade. The IAEA has never accused them of diverting their nuclear material to a military purpose.
- [31:26]
Piers Morgan
Okay, let me bring in Josh Hammer. Josh Hammer, Donald Trump and Benjamin Netanyahu. And I think Netanyahu was driving this narrative, according to the New York Times, big deep dive a few weeks into the war, that they believe that this war in Iran could reshape the Middle East. And it would all happen very quickly. You decapitate the heads, the IRGC collapse from within. The people wouldn't uprise. The Strait of Hormuz would be ignored. None of it's really happened other than they killed the Ayatollah, he's been replaced by his more radical son. And the problem now is that I think they're on competing agendas. I don't think Netanyahu wants to stop attacking Iran. I think he'd love to try and get rid of the regime. I think he'd like to carry on as long as it takes to do this. He's shown the same capacity to do this with Hezbollah and Hamas in Gaza and so on. And yet Donald Trump clearly now sees enormous political peril in continuing this for much longer. Inflation is soaring. Food prices will be soaring when the fertilizer issue involving the Strait of Hormuz plays through into the, into the food chain. Energy prices are way, way higher than they were before all this. And he's got this ticking clock. He can't get away from it. The midterms are coming. And at this moment in time, if this carries on the way it is for much longer, then the Republicans will lose the House and the Senate. And at that point, Trump becomes a lame duck. He's politically paralyzed. Then this is a perilous moment because I just think the two countries have different agendas.
- [33:07]
Josh Hammer
Okay, so I'll get to that in just a minute, Piers, but there's been a lot said here that simply has to go addressed as well. So Peter's actually not the only person who just got back from Judea and Samaria from Israel. I actually just got back this past Sunday, just three days ago from a trip as well. I was over there co leading a trip for young American Christian journalists in particular. And I think it's worth noting that we took this lovely group to Christian holy sites like Nazareth. We took them to the Mount of Beatitudes on the north of the Sea of Galilee. We could not go to Bethlehem. Bethlehem has been invoked numerous times in this conversation. Our trip did not feel comfortable going to Bethlehem because we would be putting these young fellows lives in danger. Matt is 1000% correct. There's been a Christian genocide in Bethlehem. The Christian percentage, the population Bethlehem in the 1920s was north of 90%. Now it is roughly 15 to 20% there. It's all being done under the auspices of the hegemonic Arab Muslim rulers there in Bethlehem. Furthermore, I actually sat down to interview this past Monday in the Israeli North, Shadi Kalul, who is one of the leaders of the Israeli Christian community. He actually just got a permanent approval from the Prime Minister, Netanyahu himself to start the first fully Christian community there in the Israeli north, near the Lebanese border there. And he was going on and on and on with Shadi Kulul about how he is Persona non grata in Bethlehem. He is not welcome there. He's not welcome at the place of Jesus Christ. So there's been just a tremendous amount of just blatant misinformation. Even the situation on the ground. Again, I actually spent a decent amount of time on this trip in Judea and Samaria. The highways in Judea and Samaria have lots of Israeli license plates and Palestinian Authority license plates there. There is actually a much more peaceful situation on the ground, frankly, than the media reports would have you believe. Are there problems on both sides? To an extent, yes. But I think it's notable that Peter, in his answer earlier and Scott and yourself in the matter, no one on this panel, frankly, has mentioned the fact that, that it's not just Arabs who at times are being killed. I didn't hear Peter mention the fact that there was a terrorist attack in central Israel. An Israeli man was killed by an Arab terrorist this past Sunday, just when I landed. Furthermore, there have been now 20 Israeli soldiers killed by Hezbollah in the north. Hezbollah, which infamously actually takes over Christian churches in Lebanon, seizes those churches and then use that to fire upon Israelis. The Maronite Catholic Christian president of Lebanon, Yosef Ayoun, has called this out explicitly, which is why he is now increasingly aligned with Netanyahu on the Iranian proxy threat of Hezbollah in his own country there. So there's been a tremendous amount of misinformation spewed here on this panel when it comes to the issue of Judea and Samaria and Bethlehem and so forth. Having said that, I do want to address your question. When it comes to the war in Iran and Trump and Netanyahu, are the two leaders fully aligned? No, of course not at this point. Look, they have more in common, clearly, than they have against. Donald Trump is not a fan of Iran, to put it mildly. He's made that clear over and over and over again. Pulling out of Barack Obama's nuclear deal, taking out Qasem Soleimani, the entire launching of Epic Fury. There's literally a Pakistani national currently sitting in prison in New York City for trying to assassinate Donald Trump on behalf of the irgc. There was a recent plot by the IRGC trying to assassinate Ivanka Trump. Donald Trump not a fan of the Iranians. Do the two leaders have different domestic political calculuses? Yeah, they probably do. Donald Trump is staring at rising gasoline prices. Netanyahu is facing his own election in the Knesset this October, roughly we anticipate it will be. And he's looking at the fact that he wants to solidify his reputation as bona fides as a tough on Iran, tough on Hamas, et cetera style leader there. So there's definitely a slight divergence there, but I don't think it is ultimately more than slight. And the thing to remember here, Piers, is that there's been so much garbage spewing the American media. Thomas Massie, Marjorie Taylor Greene, all these propagandists say that the tail is wagging the dog. Israel's driving America to conflict. No, they're not. No, they're not. And Donald Trump has just proven it yet again by calling him Netanyahu after Israel received incoming from both Hezbollah and Iran and saying don't do this. So if the tail was wagging the dog, then the president United States would not be the dog wagging the tail in turn. So I think the reports.
- [37:12]
Scott Horton
But Israel hit Iran.
- [37:13]
Josh Hammer
Sure, Israel hit Iran.
- [37:15]
Scott Horton
Wave Trump and bombed Iran anyway when he said that.
- [37:19]
Josh Hammer
Scott I was there in the Israeli north. I was literally in a hotel on the banks of the Sea of Galilee last Monday evening. Our whole group of these young 18, 20 year old Christian journals had to rush the bomb shelters at 2am in the morning because of incoming Hezbollah fire. Then the Iran missiles fired a few days later.
- [37:35]
Scott Horton
But you're changing the subject. We were talking about whether Donald Trump,
- [37:38]
Josh Hammer
to his great credit, responded to the attack, the horrific attack on the Apache helicopter there near the Omani coast. And you know what he said? He said that when you are attacked, you have to fight back there. Why in the world would that same standard not apply to any other country there? And by the way, even after American Israel started this war, that's why even no, they didn't. Iran started this war in 1979. But regardless, even after America started to fire its missile, no, they did not. Even after Ron fired the missile into Israel this past Sunday, Trump said don't do it. Bibi did. And then after that, Trump said, you know what? Fine, both got your shots there. Now it's calm. So you know what? Now it's calm. Ish. Until Iran decided to go gun down an Apache helicopter. You know why? Because they are fanatical 72 virgins and Islamists eschatological Shiites trying to imitize the coming of the 12th Imam. These are not rational actors. And unfortunately this current administration is now falling to the same enticing the siren song. You can treat these Fundamentally irrational figures as rational actors is the same delusion.
- [38:39]
Piers Morgan
I'm not entirely sure that anyone who's been reading Donald Trump's social media outpourings for the last 14 weeks would deem him to be a particularly rational actor in all this, would they?
- [38:50]
Scott Horton
Or how about the Israelis who convinced Trump this will be easy? All you gotta do is kill the Ayatollah, drop a few bombs on the irgc. They won't close the strait because who's they? They won't even be in power anymore. It'll be a bunch of freedom loving Democrats will take over the country and make it an American and Israeli ally. And now you hear Josh Hammer, all we gotta do, we gotta hit him harder. We gotta go back to war. I guess eventually we gotta send in
- [39:13]
Josh Hammer
a ground for April 8. The reason we are here is because the ceasefire was called prematurely.
- [39:21]
Piers Morgan
The reason the ceasefire. The reason the ceasefire was called was because the military actions alone just. They weren't. Because what the Iranians were doing was they were ignoring the fact they were getting bombarded and they were simply focused on shutting the Strait of Hormuz and attacking the Gulf State neighbors. It turned out to be a very smart strategy. You may not like it, it might be, I think they're an appalling regime who deserve all they get. However, as a strategy against the bombardment, it turned out to be very effective. It forced a ceasefire. Then we had a blockade, which wasn't really a blockade. That didn't work either. The Iranians still control Australia. Four Moose. They still have enough weaponry to attack the Gulf states at will. They still have enough weaponry to attack Israel, as we've seen. So this idea, they've been completely decimated militarily clearly isn't true either. The Supreme Leader is in place. His father was killed, but he's there, he's more radical. The IRGC are still running the show and there are no sign of popular uprisings. Nothing that Netanyahu in the White House situation room three, four weeks into this war, before the war started, nothing that he promised Trump has actually really happened other than decapitating the Ayatollah. And I think that's the problem. I want to bring in Peter Oborn just to round things off here. You know, Peter, at the core of all this, I've always believed, until he saw you said this immediately when he first started talking. Until you sort the Palestinian problem, nothing really gets resolved here. And to date, there's never been, it seems to me, a particularly collective will by the Arab countries in the Middle east to make that happen. Could out of all this mayhem now, could there be a scenario where Saudi Arabia joined the Abraham Accord and other countries may have states follow and that there becomes a collective will to address the core issue of the Palestinian problem? And could that ultimately, not in the near future, but could that lead to a lasting peace?
- [41:28]
Peter Oborn
I don't think it's a question really of the Arab states. These are tame despotisms which are, generally speaking, doing what Israel wants. That's what the Abraham Accords is. I think what it does need is a change in the mind of the United States, which so far has been the godfather to, to Israel the animals it wanted. But we are seeing a very interesting change in sentiments against Israel among, in the United states, including among U.S. jews. And I think if there is so the moment they've got Trump, if they've got somebody who was less favorable to Israel, were ready to take the side of the Palestinians as well as the side of the Israelis, then that way something might happen.
- [42:10]
Piers Morgan
Okay, fascinating debate. Thank you all very much. I really appreciate that. I'm joined now in the studio by Alex Gandler. He's the spokesman for the Israeli Embassy in London. Well, welcome to you. We've not seen you on our sensor before.
- [42:24]
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- [42:54]
Piers Morgan
Donald Trump said if I tell him Netanyahu to do something, he does it. Is that true?
- [43:01]
Alex Gandler
Well, shut down Pierce right straight into it.
- [43:04]
Piers Morgan
Yeah.
- [43:06]
Alex Gandler
We have a very good relationship with our American allies. We are constantly in conversation and communication on all different levels. We're talking, we're partners in this.
- [43:16]
Piers Morgan
Do you do what you're told by the President of the United States?
- [43:18]
Alex Gandler
We are partners in this. We are partners in this.
- [43:20]
Piers Morgan
But that's not quite how he phrased it because a partnership is where you agree things together. He says if I tell him to do something, he does it. Is that true?
- [43:31]
Alex Gandler
Again, we're partners. We constantly talk.
- [43:33]
Piers Morgan
Does your prime minister do what President Trump tells him to do or not?
- [43:37]
Alex Gandler
Again, we talk constantly. There are disagreements and there are Agreements?
- [43:41]
Piers Morgan
That wasn't my question. With respect, I mean.
- [43:43]
Alex Gandler
Oh, no, I understand. You're asking a yes or no question.
- [43:46]
Piers Morgan
Well, only because the President's been absolutely emphatic. If I tell him, Netanyahu to do something, he does it. Is that your understanding of how this works?
- [43:54]
Alex Gandler
Let me rephrase it then. Israel is an independent country, a sovereign country that has its own decisions. Does that answer the question?
- [44:02]
Piers Morgan
So you don't do what the President tells you.
- [44:04]
Alex Gandler
We are in alignment regarding our goals and our needs and.
- [44:08]
Piers Morgan
Well, you either do what he tells you or you don't. With respect.
- [44:11]
Alex Gandler
With respect, again, we're a sovereign nation.
- [44:14]
Piers Morgan
So you don't do what he tells you to do. Well, you don't. I mean, that's what you're saying.
- [44:18]
Alex Gandler
What I'm saying is that we're in communications.
- [44:21]
Piers Morgan
No, you're specifically saying, unless I'm misreading what you're telling me, that you do not do what the President of the United States tells you to do. You take actions as a independent, sovereign country.
- [44:32]
Alex Gandler
No, the way I'm saying it is very specific to the fact that I don't want to answer the question directly because I think the question misses the alliance between Israel and the United States.
- [44:43]
Piers Morgan
Well, not really. Cuz Donald Trump couldn't have been more clear. He talking publicly, on camera. If I tell him to do something, he does it. My simple question was, is that true? I don't think you think it is true or do you?
- [44:57]
Alex Gandler
Again, we in our relationship with the United States, which is a long lasting relationship with different presidents, with different prime ministers along the years, we have been in great communications and I think we're at a pinnacle of communications where both the President and the Prime Minister speak almost daily. There are disagreements, there are agreements.
- [45:17]
Piers Morgan
Well, last week the President of the United States said to your Prime Minister Netanyahu, you are effing crazy. Everyone hates you now. Everyone hates Israel because of this. That was the President of the United States to your Prime Minister. And the Israelis denied that that happened, denied the conversation. And then the President was asked in an interview and said he said it.
- [45:39]
Alex Gandler
Well, I wasn't privy to the conversation itself, but from my understanding, talking to my counterparts and colleagues in Washington as well, this is a conversation among many conversations between friends. And sometimes, I'm sure you say to your friends the same thing.
- [45:56]
Piers Morgan
I don't call my friends effing crazy.
- [45:58]
Alex Gandler
You don't?
- [45:58]
Piers Morgan
Everybody hates you.
- [45:59]
Alex Gandler
No, no.
- [46:00]
Piers Morgan
Do you? No.
- [46:01]
Alex Gandler
Well, I speak to them and sometimes I curse as well.
- [46:04]
Piers Morgan
How many of Your friends do you call effing crazy?
- [46:06]
Josh Hammer
Wow.
- [46:06]
Alex Gandler
I wish I could get them on the line.
- [46:08]
Piers Morgan
Does everybody hate some of your friends?
- [46:10]
Alex Gandler
No.
- [46:11]
Piers Morgan
So you haven't had that conversation?
- [46:14]
Alex Gandler
Well, amongst friends, you can sometimes speak very bluntly. It's not the same as to speak to someone who's your adversary.
- [46:20]
Piers Morgan
He said he personally kept Netanyahu out of prison.
- [46:25]
Alex Gandler
Oh, I don't know about that.
- [46:27]
Piers Morgan
Why, out of interest, has the prime minister not carried on with his court case? It keeps being postponed. Do you know why that's not happening?
- [46:34]
Alex Gandler
Well, it's part of the. First of all, it is happening.
- [46:37]
Piers Morgan
From my understanding, every time he's due to appear, it gets postponed.
- [46:40]
Alex Gandler
Not every time.
- [46:41]
Piers Morgan
For security reasons.
- [46:42]
Alex Gandler
Listen, we're in the middle of a war.
- [46:43]
Piers Morgan
Sure. So the longer you keep the war going, the less chance there is of him actually appearing in court.
- [46:49]
Alex Gandler
I don't think that comes into the considerations. First of all. No, first of all, the considerations are for the judicial system in Israel, whether to postpone it or not. Sometimes it's merited, sometimes he appears at court. So it's, you know, it's the judicial system in a democratic country. I'm sure it works the same way here in the uk Trump said to
- [47:09]
Piers Morgan
him, bibi, you better be careful or you will be on your own very soon. And that's pretty direct. Can you see a situation where, for political reasons, the President of the United States gets out of this war in Iran, but you, Israel, decide to continue it?
- [47:26]
Alex Gandler
Well, earlier I told you that we're a sovereign state, an independent state that has to take action when it's needed. Iran was needed, and it wasn't needed just for Israel. I want you to imagine a scenario where Iran is nuclear and blocking the Strait of Hormuz. Could you resolve it? I don't think so.
- [47:44]
Piers Morgan
Well, you've. I mean, look, if you. Let's be clear about the start of the war, the Strait was open, right?
- [47:51]
Alex Gandler
Yes, but it was always.
- [47:52]
Piers Morgan
And now, because of the war, it's closed. Also, as I was saying in the panel earlier, Iran worked out very quickly. They obviously can't compete purely militarily, and we're getting bombarded and a lot of damage has been caused, there's no doubt about that. But they could compete by attacking the Gulf state neighbors, and it was very effective as a strategy. You wouldn't dispute that?
- [48:12]
Alex Gandler
No, absolutely not. I think you're on the point. I'll tell you more than that. The Gulf's neighbors as part of the Abraham Accords, and I've heard the end of the last panel, as part of the Abraham Accords, the Gulf states had an understanding quite a long time ago that Iran might do this. This isn't something that just happened. Geopolitics and history, they take time.
- [48:33]
Piers Morgan
But they only did it after you went to war with them.
- [48:36]
Alex Gandler
With whom? With Iran?
- [48:37]
Piers Morgan
Yeah.
- [48:38]
Alex Gandler
No. So the understanding of there weren't a
- [48:40]
Piers Morgan
lot of rockets at Riyadh and Doha and Dubai before.
- [48:43]
Alex Gandler
Yes, but they knew that might happen and they knew that Iran while developing those rockets. So one of the reasons for war was obviously nuclear. Another one was the ballistic missile program. The ballistic missile program, the first missiles developed were exactly for those states. It was directed at those states.
- [49:00]
Piers Morgan
Why were we told at the end of a 12 day war last summer that the Iran nuclear program and its nuclear aspirations had been put back decades when that didn't even seem to be eight months?
- [49:12]
Alex Gandler
Well, they haven't.
- [49:13]
Piers Morgan
You had to go to war to stop them doing something that we'd already been told only eight months earlier had been put back decades. I never understood that.
- [49:22]
Alex Gandler
That's a good question. I'll tell you two things. One, there was a major hit on Iranian nuclear facilities and Iranian nuclear capabilities and development capabilities, especially scientists. Two, Iran understood that it's possible up until that moment, since the Iran Iraq war in the 80s, Iran felt itself shielded, especially by the proxies such as Hezbollah and Hamas and the Houthis and whatever was happening in Syria. They felt that the war is going to be far away from them. It isn't. The war needs to come to Iran in order for them to understand that it's very possible.
- [49:56]
Piers Morgan
But it's not working, is it? By any impartial observation, this was supposed to be over in two to three weeks. Then it was five to six. We're now in week 15. There's no sign of it being over. The Iranians basically have everyone over a barrel called Bistrata four Moose. They now can weaponize that strait. They have complete control of that strait. I don't. I just. The enriched uranium remains wherever it is. You haven't got your hands on any of that. I just. Where's the win here and how does it happen?
- [50:29]
Alex Gandler
Well, it's a bit shortsighted, is it
- [50:32]
Piers Morgan
wasn't me that said it'd be over in two to three weeks. It was the President of the United States.
- [50:35]
Alex Gandler
No, I understand, but I think that war is. I'm speaking both as a student of history, but not only wars take time, especially big wars. Especially wars.
- [50:44]
Piers Morgan
Is it naive the president to Say that.
- [50:46]
Alex Gandler
Don't put words in my mouth.
- [50:47]
Piers Morgan
I'm just asking if you think it was.
- [50:49]
Alex Gandler
Well, wars take time, especially when they have big consequences as the realignment of the Middle East. Post October 7th, we didn't start this, but once it started on October 7th by Hamas terrorists, we understood that something has to be done with the Middle east and the way it is operating against Israel, against Western targets and where it's going.
- [51:10]
Piers Morgan
And I defended Israel's right to defend itself after October 7th. I got a lot of criticism for it. But I believe then and I believe now you had a right to defend yourself. You had a moral duty to defend your people. The question I kept asking from early on was what would be a proportionate response? And it seems to many people that Israel has now just gone a bit berserk with the way it flattened 75% of Gaza, killing maybe 80,000 people, the way it's now doing the same sort of thing in southern Lebanon, attacking Iran, attacking pretty much everywhere. And people are cynical. They think your prime minister knows if he keeps doing this, he can avoid being held to proper account in a courtroom and will probably, if there's an election in October, seems to be what's coming, that, you know, he might even be able to avoid that happening and maybe stay in power that way. And people are cynical about it. They think he's using war as an instrument for personal survival.
- [52:09]
Alex Gandler
The people of Israel don't see it that way. It's a narrative that has been fostered in the deep left. You know what? Let me take you to an example. The sanctions that were imposed on several Israeli entities and the advice given not to do deals within Judea and Samaria yesterday by the British government. Completely unhelpful. Completely, completely unhelpful. Not only that, it takes Britain out of the place where it could make a change. Maybe deal with the corrupt policy and authority, maybe deal with the pay for slave. Britain at the moment is irrelevant in this conversation.
- [52:47]
Piers Morgan
I mean, the relevant part may be this, which is that a Pew Research center study said British public opinion of Israel is at 61% unfavorable versus 30% favorable. In America. You're seeing also majority unfavorable. Never seen these sort of figures before. There's no part of you feel concerned that Israel's reputation around the world is getting decimated here by the actions of a particular government, which is, to many people's eyes, just gone war crazy.
- [53:21]
Alex Gandler
First of all, yes, it makes my job a lot harder, but it is my democratically elected government that makes decisions for the benefit of the people of Israel to defend them. Yes. We would love to see everyone support us. Absolutely. There is an informational warfare that. You know what, let me be brutally honest. We probably haven't been good at as our adversaries. We're a smaller country. There are a lot of reasons for it. And we also failed. Yes, most likely.
- [53:52]
Piers Morgan
Do you think the actions of Ben GVIR and Smodrich in particular, who are senior members of your government, do you think that their actions, which I have viewed as increasingly psychopathic, do you think they are a major contributing factor to why Israel is getting more unpopular?
- [54:08]
Alex Gandler
Ministers Ben GVIR and Smotrich are elected officials in the Israeli government.
- [54:12]
Piers Morgan
You support them.
- [54:14]
Alex Gandler
I'm a civil servant. I don't think it's my position to support or unsupport an elected government in Israel. I work for the government of Israel.
- [54:22]
Piers Morgan
You can have an opinion.
- [54:23]
Alex Gandler
Well, of course I have as a private citizen, but this is not my.
- [54:25]
Piers Morgan
What's your view as a private citizen?
- [54:27]
Alex Gandler
I don't think I can share it on this side.
- [54:29]
Piers Morgan
I think the total psychos. I mean, Ben Gvir's wife gave him a cape with a noose on it for his 50th birthday. Psychopathic Smodrich is running this completely illegal, aggressive expansion of the settlements on the West Bank. Ben GVIR posted a video gleefully of him laughing as a young female detainee was being literally abused in front of our eyes by IDF and thought that was fine. Even prompted Netanyahu to condemn it because he couldn't do anything else. The guy had posted it himself. These are psychopaths. And I think it's a big problem for Israel. I think until you get rid of these guys or change the government or something, gives Israel gets more unpopular. And that has a direct impact on the way that Jews feel around the world, the way that things play out in the real world for them, which is heartbreaking and appalling. Many of whom want nothing to do with Modric and Ben gvir. How does this change?
- [55:29]
Alex Gandler
As I said, they're democratically elected. But you need to understand that the Israeli process, the democratic process, which you're going to probably see in a couple of months, is quite wild in the democratic world in the sense of there is so much pluralism within the country. Here in the uk, up until not too long ago, you had two parties. Mostly in Israel, you have seven parties that form a coalition.
- [55:55]
Piers Morgan
Yeah.
- [55:55]
Alex Gandler
And more than that, people have opinions, they have voices, but policy is made in other rooms. It is made by the prime minister in a security cabinet. And the policy is not what you've just mentioned. It is different.
- [56:10]
Piers Morgan
It may not be policy, but it's public statements and actions by senior members of the government. That's the problem.
- [56:17]
Alex Gandler
It could be, but at the end of the day, Israel is a democratic society.
- [56:21]
Piers Morgan
So I think you agree with me there, psychos. You just don't want to say it.
- [56:25]
Alex Gandler
Well, Piers, that could be a good question for when I take off my suit and the end of my career as a diplomat, and maybe I'll be able to answer it.
- [56:34]
Piers Morgan
If the United States tells Israel to end its operations in Lebanon, will Israel agree?
- [56:41]
Alex Gandler
I think it should be very clear of what we want regarding Lebanon. We want a very strong and sovereign and prosperous Lebanese state alongside Israel. We want Lebanon to be as free from Iranian and Islamic regime control as possible. The path to it goes through Hezbollah for both of us. You might have seen President her talk today address Prime Minister Aoun in Arabic, saying he extends his end in peace. We truly want peace with Lebanon. We have no land disputes. We have no disputes at all with the Lebanese people or with the Lebanese state. We signed our last land agreement two, three years ago, actually giving Lebanon more than it wanted in a gas field in the Mediterranean in order for it to be successful. The problem lies with Hezbollah, and that's not us saying it. This is the Lebanese people, the Lebanese leadership saying it quite loudly for the first time in decades, ever since Prime Minister Hariri was killed in Beirut by Hezbollah.
- [57:50]
Piers Morgan
Final question. Smodrich, who we just discussed, describes himself as a fascist homophobe. Does the UK Embassy have a view of that?
- [57:59]
Alex Gandler
No, I don't think he said it while he was in government, but honestly, I don't think we have a position on it.
- [58:05]
Piers Morgan
So you could probably condemn it then, couldn't you, if he wasn't. If you're not commenting on what he said as a government minister, Israel believes
- [58:11]
Alex Gandler
in a prolistic state. You're very welcome to travel to Tel Aviv this month to be in the biggest gay pride parade in the Middle East.
- [58:18]
Piers Morgan
Okay, so you're not a fascist homophobe.
- [58:21]
Alex Gandler
Clearly, I do not describe myself that way.
- [58:25]
Piers Morgan
Alex Gander, thank you very much for coming in. I appreciate it. Well, joining us now is Dana Lasch, host of the Dana Show. Dana, how are you?
- [58:33]
Dana Lash
I'm good, Piers. It's been a very long time. It's good to see you.
- [58:36]
Piers Morgan
It's been a very long time. If I may say so, you appear to have aged a lot better. Than me. So congratulations.
- [58:42]
Dana Lash
Well, you're flattering me. Now I got to get my head through the studio door. It's going to get too large if it's.
- [58:47]
Piers Morgan
Well, I'm getting the factory out early so we can then revert to our normal.
- [58:50]
Dana Lash
There we go. Good.
- [58:51]
Piers Morgan
Our normal antagonism. I just wanted to start by talking big picture for a moment about this war in Iran, because my view of this is that it's turned into Donald Trump's worst nightmare, where every sinew of his behavior suggests he wants to get out of this as fast as possible. But it appears that is proving to be incredibly difficult. And there appear to be parallel agendas going on here, one his and one Netanyahu and Israel's, where they want to keep going against Iran and Trump doesn't. I mean, putting aside the merits of whether we should be doing this war or not, do you. Do you agree that that's where we've got to.
- [59:37]
Dana Lash
I think that it's gotten complicated, and I think it gets more complicated as the time goes on. One thing that I halfway agree with you on, when you're talking about, about the two different factions, I don't necessarily think that it's a Trump versus Netanyahu faction as much as I think it's a Trump maybe, perhaps versus a faction that really doesn't want to see any kind of change in Iran. They don't want to see any change in the regime. They really don't have an issue if Iran controls the Strait of Hormuz. And I think that there may be more of a contest there as opposed to between Trump and Netanyahu. But as it relates to Trump prosecuting the conflict, when he first began, it was very clear, it was very transparent. Everyone knew what the objective is. And Piers, when the American people, we want to know what our leaders are up to, we're very nosy. We want to know what they're doing, we want to know what they're thinking. We want to know the machinations of everything. When we don't have those answers, we start filling in those gaps. And I think the longer it takes, the more questions that people are going to have. People aren't against conflict per se, but what they are against is long drawn out conflicts where it seems that indecisions start, starts to take the lead. And there doesn't seem to be a clear end in sight or the objectives shift. And I think that's where the administration needs to be very careful.
- [60:56]
Piers Morgan
I mean, Donald Trump has 37 times now he said we're on the verge of a deal. And in between all those statements on his truth social, he's been saying the complete opposite, saying we're about to blow Iran to pieces, threatening Armageddon and so on. As he's gone on this, there's a real danger that he isn't there, that he becomes the boy that cried wolf. You know, if you keep saying this kind of thing and then the world can see that it doesn't happen, doesn't the authority of the President start to get eroded automatically?
- [61:31]
Dana Lash
I don't know if it's the authority of the President. I think the issue here is it's very difficult to negotiate with, to actually get to the negotiations for negotiation for a ceasefire, because ultimately that's what we're doing. When you're up against a regimental that continues to violate the cease fire, just as we saw last night, yesterday with the Apache helicopter, just as we've seen previously when they began to strike American assets and troops in Bahrain, Kuwait. So they're not, Iran's not interested in any kind of cease fire. Let's be clear eyed about this. And I think sometimes, you know, it gets a little performative, at least on their part. Now, I think in order to assume that, you know, Trump is crying wolf, you might have to assume that maybe perhaps he's not presenting that information with the best intentions or a gesture of goodwill to the American public. And I don't think that that's the case with Trump. I think he very much would love to have as a part of his legacy be known as the president who brought peace to this area and was able to make peace with Iran. I think you, and I think you would agree with that. He loves that idea very much. Getting to that point though, with the remnants of this regime where they're still violating the ceasefire, they're still trying to maintain control of the strait. That's difficult. So he has to stay focused. And I think at some point the conversation is going to happen, if it hasn't happened already. Piers, at what point do you escalate the pressure and what does that escalation look like? How long does that take? What's the clear timeline that's yet to be answered?
- [62:58]
Piers Morgan
I mean, the problem is they massively escalated this right off the top with, you know, relentless bombardment of Iran. And there's no doubt that the American and Israeli military damaged a lot of of Iran's military hardware. I don't think that's unquestionable. The problem is, and we've just bated this a lot on the show that there's been an asymmetric war being waged by Iran through the Strait of Hormuz, and in conjunction with attacking their Gulf state neighbors, which has caused enormous tension with them, enormous damage to their business models, to tourism and so on. And they now know they can do that. You know, it seems to many people like Iran has Trump over a barrel simply because, unlike Israel, Trump is working to a deadline of the midterms in November, raging inflation again, food prices likely despite because of the fertilizer issue with the Strait and so on. They know he has a ticking clock, and it's a political ticking clock. And so, you know, talking about escalating, if he was to now commit, say, boots on the ground or whatever, it could be politically disastrous, never mind anything else. And so many people look at this and think that when faced with their extinction, as Trump's kept threatening the Iranian regime, far from being extinct now has not the original supreme leader, Ayatollah, but his son, who's more radical, the IRGC are still in tight grip of the country. No uprisings by the people of Iran, and the Iranians are controlling the Strait of Hormuz. It's unarguable, and they've still got their enriched uranium. So at the moment, I don't see any win here for Donald Trump, but I do see a ticking clock where he's got to get out of this.
- [64:40]
Dana Lash
With the Iranian people, it's kind of difficult to measure, I think, the opposition to the regime because they don't have the access to Internet capability the way that we would have here. So I think that that's a difficult thing to measure. And I don't necessarily want to take maybe perhaps the regime or associates of the regime their word for it. But in terms of asymmetrical warfare, it could be argued that Iran has been engaged in asymmetrical warfare for decades. Peers. I mean, we can go back to the 80s, the Marine barracks bombing. We can go back to a number of things that Iran or their proxies. Well, let me finish. Iran or their proxies have carried out. I see what you mean when you're talking about this. You know, that Trump started hard and fast and in an overwhelming nature. And I think that's perhaps response to a lot of stuff that Iran has done to American assets and American troops over the years. Now, that being said, what Iran is doing right now in terms of getting to midterms, and this is where I do think that you're correct, going to midterms. This is where it gets difficult, because Iran is prosecuting this in the court of public opinion. They know that they don't have the capability, if Trump really wanted to just pull that lever and really go after Iran hard. They know that they have no hope of winning a victory on that. And they know, in fact, they're thriving on the indulgence of our understanding about prosecuting this in the court of public opinion. They're thriving on that and they're using that to their advantage. But I think that's where the President needs to be very careful and not let them get too far over their skis with that. So that's an advantage for them because they make themselves. Even though despite the fact that they have been the bullies for decades and decades and decades, they've funded terrorism, they funded Hezbollah, they funded Hamas, the Houthis, they have funded all these proxy groups. Despite that, they're still able to successfully make themselves look like the victim on the world stage, when in fact that they're not. So. So I think Trump has to be careful of the optics. But I think I'm not buying into any kind of doomer sort of perspective of his job performance on this. I'm not ready to say I'm not near that yet. I don't think we're there. I think that we have decimated the irgc. I think we've decimated a lot of their military capability. Now, if we commit troops on the ground, we'll cross that bridge when we get there. I think that's highly unlikely. I would be surprised at that because Trump is notoriously anti war in that regard, but he's being cautious with American resources. So. And I think the American people, that's why they're still watching and waiting to see what he does here, because they believe him in that.
- [67:02]
Piers Morgan
We've seen a real schism in the conservative right in America with people like Megyn Kelly and Tucker Carlson, Candace Owens going completely away from Trump, particularly on this war. But other issues, too, you're more still siding with Trump, as is Mark Levin, who said this about Trump only yesterday.
- [67:21]
Mark Levin
I don't know why the President of the United States feels they need to keep going to left wing reporters and talking about confidential conversations he has with the Prime Minister of Israel. And I don't know why he keeps bashing the Prime Minister of Israel who's trying to protect his country and his own people. Just a few weeks ago, their fighter jets were fighting right alongside ours. The Mossad was working with the CIA and of course the prime minister was working with the president in what was a spectacular military operation. I know the president is deeply desperate for a deal. The Iranians know he's deeply desperate for a deal. The whole world knows he's deeply desperate for a deal. Got it. But the problem is the state of Israel is in the neighborhood.
- [68:05]
Piers Morgan
I mean, that's as critical as he's been of Donald Trump. Do you agree with him?
- [68:10]
Dana Lash
I think he's right. I think Mark Levin is right here. I think in terms of the criticisms of Israel, I wonder if there's not a play in the works here to try to put some daylight between Trump and Netanyahu. Remember, we're all doing this. I mean, we're all watching this because we're all judging everything that they're doing, and that's. They have to win not just into the American support, but they're looking at the international community at large. And I sometimes wonder if it's not performative discord that we see between them. But at the same time, you have to consider, Peters, if your house is under siege by your neighbor to the north and they're relentlessly bombing you, you might respond to that. I mean, I think any normal, common sense person would probably respond to that threat. And I think the criticism of Trump's recent remarks has been. There wasn't perhaps consideration of that in his last remark on Netanyahu. So I don't know if I buy it that it's entirely genuine. It may be performative. If it is, I mean, that's good statecraft. I mean, that's, you know, you're kind of making your enemies wonder what your next move is going to be. But again, don't forget that transparency to the people, because they want to make that. They're not disparaging an alliance.
- [69:16]
Piers Morgan
Danny Lash, gonna leave you there. You have a hard out of your own show. I appreciate you joining me. We managed to get through this without shouting at each other. I think it's amazing.
- [69:23]
Dana Lash
You know, we. We agree on a lot more than we disagree on. I think it's probably. And you still have to come to Texas and shoot some guns.
- [69:29]
Piers Morgan
I. You know what? I'd happily come to Texas and shoot some guns. Long as I'm not shooting people. That would be fine.
- [69:36]
Dana Lash
Pierce, for the love. No. And have brisket. No, we're very good. We're very good people here.
- [69:41]
Piers Morgan
Dana, good to see you. Come back soon.
- [69:42]
Josh Hammer
Good to see you.
- [69:43]
Dana Lash
God bless. Thanks.
- [69:46]
Piers Morgan
Piers Morgan, Unsensed, that is Proudly independent. The only boss around here is me. You enjoy our show, we offer only one simple thing. Hit, subscribe on YouTube and follow Piers Morgan uncensored on Spotify and Apple podcasts. And in return, we will continue our mission to inform, irritate, and entertain. And we'll do it all for free. Independent, uncensored media has never been more critical, and we couldn't do it without you.