'What If Fuentes Stormed a Synagogue!?' Benny Johnson vs Ethan Klein On Don Lemon, Epstein & ICE

Summary

Podcast Summary: "What If Fuentes Stormed a Synagogue!? Benny Johnson vs Ethan Klein On Don Lemon, Epstein & ICE"

Podcast: Piers Morgan Uncensored
Date: February 3, 2026

---

Overview

In this charged and wide-ranging episode, Piers Morgan hosts a fiery panel discussion featuring Benny Johnson (The Benny Show), Ethan Klein (A3 Podcast), Brian Shapiro (Pushing My Limits), and former Illinois governor Richard Blagojevich. The episode explores contemporary culture war flashpoints—from the prosecution of Don Lemon for allegedly conspiring with protesters at a church, to the fallout from the Epstein files, ICE enforcement controversies, and American political hypocrisy.
Later, Glenn Beck joins to provide his perspective on the feverish U.S. news cycle, ICE, Epstein, and even reviews the new Melania Trump documentary.

Major Themes:

• Double standards in justice and media coverage
• The politicization of law enforcement
• Accountability for elites (Epstein scandal)
• The state of American discourse and political cycles
• ICE, immigration enforcement, and protests

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Don Lemon, Protest, and Double Standards [04:05 - 30:00]

The Charges Against Don Lemon

• Don Lemon indicted for allegedly “conspiring to deprive others of civil rights” and violating the FACE Act after reporting at a church protest.
• Piers Morgan worries the precedent set could threaten all journalism:
  “If we don’t make that distinction...the precedent this would set going forward is going to be horrific” (Piers, [05:17]).

Panel Debate: Reverse the Example

• Benny Johnson argues if Nick Fuentes or Alex Jones stormed a synagogue or mosque instead, the outcry would be far more intense ([05:59]).
• Benny:
  “I think you'd be having a very different conversation if Nick Fuentes stormed into a synagogue, wouldn't you” ([05:59]).
• Claims Don Lemon “worked with the organizers,” harassed the pastor, and “traumatized” children—cites Lemon’s own live stream admission:
  “Don Lemon says in the video, ‘these children look traumatized’... That’s the point” ([07:54]).

Journalism or Activism?

• Brian Shapiro defends Lemon, says he recorded as a journalist, not a protestor:
  "Don Lemon was not protesting. Maybe you could cite him for trespassing, but… this is a charade” ([09:14]).
• Draws parallel to right-wing journalists prosecuted during January 6th, accuses Benny of hypocrisy.
• Ethan Klein notes Lemon also said “I am not part of the group, I am a journalist” ([20:55]).

Prosecution as Political Weapon

• Blagojevich:
  “This is the over-criminalization of fundamental freedoms in America. I don't like Don Lemon...but in a free society, we all have a right to freely propagandize” ([15:30]).
• Argues both sides weaponize law enforcement, leading to tit-for-tat cycles ([15:59]).

Consensus & Disagreement

• Most panelists agree Don Lemon shouldn’t have been charged criminally, though Benny Johnson maintains places of worship must be off-limits for protests of any kind (“You should not storm places of worship. Period” - Benny, [24:32]).
• Debate devolves into “whataboutism,” with accusations of selective outrage and hypocrisy on both left and right regarding protest, prosecution, and coverage.

Notable Quotes:

• “You gotta have to bring...the receipts. When it comes to prosecuting, everyone said this. This is the...what happens with high profile prosecutions.” (Benny Johnson, [23:22])
• “Don Lemon will not be convicted. I guarantee you” (Brian Shapiro, [26:29])
• “Don Lemon's raison d'être now is to be the number one Trump hater in the world media.” (Piers Morgan, [27:00])
• “At worst case scenario, you might be able to get him on a trespassing charge. But...this is nonsense. It's because of who Don Lemon is.” (Brian Shapiro, [13:10])

---

2. The Epstein Files & Accountability [30:17 - 45:28]

British vs. American Prosecution

• High-profile UK names are “brought down,” but not so in the U.S. ([31:05]).
• Blagojevich: “Some of this information has been suppressed...if you’re accused of something like this, your life is destroyed” ([31:05]).

Pre- vs. Post-Conviction Association

• Piers Morgan outlines distinction: associating with Epstein before his conviction is one thing, but after, “there’s no confusion about who he is.” ([32:24])
• Benny Johnson: Outraged at Epstein’s lenient initial prosecution, blames both parties, especially the Bush-era DOJ:
  “Why the hell did Jeffrey Epstein get to skate on these early charges?...Jeffrey Epstein should be rotting in a prison cell for his crimes.” ([34:15])
• Highlights speculation Epstein was protected due to intelligence connections.

Trump & Clinton: Hypocrisy?

• Brian Shapiro asks if Benny is concerned about Trump’s repeated appearances in Epstein files; Benny refuses to speculate without evidence:
  “Are you willing to agree with some middle ground...that Donald Trump also probably did some bad things?” (Brian, [44:10]) “No, of course not. Because there’s no evidence.” (Benny, [44:45])
• Ethan Klein: Trump’s pre-conviction friendship with Epstein “rightfully” raises questions of character ([41:15]). Points out Elon Musk’s shifting statements about his own Epstein association.

Notable Quotes:

• “Everyone who committed a crime should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.” (Benny Johnson, [37:42])
• “I think the level of embarrassment about their association with Epstein is not dissimilar” (Piers Morgan, [45:11])
• “Don’t all talk at once...where is the damning evidence that Donald Trump continued to consult with Epstein post his conviction?” (Piers Morgan, [39:38])

---

3. ICE, Immigration, and Police Overreach [45:47 - 59:21]

California Fraud and ICE Controversies

• Benny Johnson claims massive corruption and fraud in CA’s homelessness and unemployment spending ([47:09]).
• Ethan Klein pivots to criticize ICE for "rolling up to people in unmarked vehicles," framing it as a greater threat:
  “Who gives a shit about what’s going on in California? There’s nothing more urgent than what is happening right now with ICE.” ([48:46])

Glenn Beck on ICE Enforcement

• Beck sees both protestors and ICE agents as caught in a caustic atmosphere, rejects simple narratives ([52:46]): “You can be a protester and have a right to protest and also...be surrounded by insurrectionists, but not be one yourself. You can be a cop and really doing your job and make a mistake and somebody dies and doesn't make you a bad person.” ([52:46])
• Says Trump administration is trying to draw a line—focus deportations on violent criminals, not long-settled families ([55:15]).
• Disagrees with ICE agents’ use of masks but understands safety concerns.
• Criticizes lack of “honest negotiation” between state and federal authorities, escalation tactics by both sides ([57:14]).

Notable Quotes:

• “The President agrees...we are going after the criminals. We're going after the people who are dangerous...Those people are the ones they’re going after.” (Glenn Beck, [56:31])
• “Chicken and the egg. You’ve got to stop the violence.” (Glenn Beck, [57:15])

---

4. Melania Trump Documentary & Cultural Reflection [62:30 - End]

• Beck reviews the new “Melania” film positively, comparing her to Jackie O:
  “I thought it was great. I didn’t learn much new, but I’ve never seen access like that before.” ([62:35])
• Piers Morgan reflects on irony: America’s supposed anti-immigrant mood, yet both Trump and Melania are children of immigrants ([64:05]).
• Beck raises concern about the death of "shame" among U.S. elites, especially in the wake of scandals like Epstein ([60:33]).

---

Notable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

• Piers Morgan:
  “Two wrongs don’t make a right. It’s something we learn at the age of five.” [01:05]
• Benny Johnson:
  “If Nick Fuentes stormed into a synagogue...you’d be having a very different conversation.” [05:59]
• Brian Shapiro:
  “Don Lemon was not protesting. He wasn’t breaking the law...This is a charade.” [09:14]
• Richard Blagojevich:
  “This is the over-criminalization of fundamental freedoms in America.” [15:30]
• Ethan Klein:
  “I agree with the majority on the panel that...he [Don Lemon] shouldn’t...He did nothing.” [20:55]
• Brian Shapiro:
  “Don Lemon will not be convicted of these crimes. He will be exonerated.” [26:29]
• Piers Morgan:
  “Don Lemon’s raison d’etre now is to be the number one Trump hater in the world media.” [27:00]
• Benny Johnson:
  “Everyone who committed a crime should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.” [37:42]
• Glenn Beck:
  “Powerful people...can get away with anything. Found out Saturday that I’m actually in the [Epstein] files.” [60:33]

---

Segment Timestamps

• Don Lemon, protests & journalism: [04:05 - 30:00]
• Epstein files, elite accountability: [30:17 - 45:28]
• ICE enforcement & protest violence: [45:47 - 59:21]
• Glenn Beck on news cycle, Melania film: [59:44 - End]

---

Tone & Style

• Spirited, argumentative, occasionally combative
• Heavy on accusations of hypocrisy across the political divide
• Mix of serious reflection (on legal overreach, societal problems) and pointed mockery

---

Summary Takeaways

• The prosecution of Don Lemon is viewed as political overreach by most panelists, though there is division over the standard for journalism near protests in places of worship.
• Both left and right are accused of hypocrisy—prosecuting their enemies for behaviors they excuse in their allies.
• The Epstein scandal remains a sore point, fueling speculation about deep, bipartisan elite protection and the lack of genuine accountability.
• ICE enforcement remains a divisive topic, raising concerns over law, order, optics, and human rights.
• The episode encapsulates the polarized, whataboutist state of American political conversation—where every controversy is weaponized, and clarity is elusive.

---

Recommended for listeners interested in robust debate, American current affairs, and media critiques.

Transcript

[Richard Blagojevich]

How many discounts does USAA Auto Insurance offer? Too many to say here.

[Benny Johnson]

Multi vehicle discount, Safe driver discount, New vehicle discount, Storage discount.

[Richard Blagojevich]

How many discounts will you stack up? Tap the banner or visit usaa.com autodiscounts restrictions apply.

[Benny Johnson]

We're here. We're here to worship Jesus. Do you think Jesus would be understanding Christians are treated differently in this country. I think you'd be having a very different conversation if Nick Fuentes stormed into a synagogue.

[Brian Shapiro]

My advice to you is stop being a Donald Trump cop.

[Richard Blagojevich]

This is the over criminalization of fundamental freedoms in America.

[Ethan Klein]

You were sentenced to 14 years for attempting to sell a Senate seat.

[Richard Blagojevich]

Read the case.

[Ethan Klein]

Were you in prison? Were you found guilty of corruption? I want to say fuck ice.

[Piers Morgan]

The Grammys where you all cue us to say fuck ice.

[Brian Shapiro]

What did Dan Bongino do about it? What did Cash Patel do about it? Well, they say that Jeffrey Epstein killed himself. There's nothing to see here.

[Benny Johnson]

That evil son of a bitch should be in prison right now.

[Glenn Beck]

Powerful people, they can get away with anything. Found out Saturday that I'm actually in the files.

[Piers Morgan]

Two wrongs don't make a right. It's something we learn at the age of five. But many recent controversies engulfing the Trump administration have been caused in part by repeating the mistakes which helped them to get elected. There's an overused George Orwell line from 1984 which is again turning up everywhere. The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It says it was their final, most essential command. I used to hear MAGA pundits saying it about Joe Biden's team, as they called him a super fit mensa genius with 100 years to live. Now it's all over liberal media because of the Epstein files and because of the disastrous effort to smear Alex Pretty and Rene Goode. It was wrong for Biden to claim his opponents were all dangerous domestic terrorists. It's now wrong to make the same claim about everyone protesting against ice. And the same goes for. But there are many people using gleeful whataboutery to defend the prosecution of Don Lemon. What about the conservative journalists who were arrested for filming on January 6? What about the protesters who were convicted for praying at an abortion clinic? What about the lawfare against President Trump? Yes, that was wrong. That doesn't make it right to do it all again, not least because it will, as it did before, inevitably backfire. America is getting trapped in a vicious circle started by Biden, in which presidents take four year turns in executing revenge and Pardoning their mates because the other guy did it first. This won't end well. There's a simple way to break the cycle. And we also learn that when we're five years old, it's remembering the difference between right and wrong. Well, joining me to discuss all of this is Brian Shapiro, host of Pushing My Limits. The former Illinois governor, Richard Rob Blagojevich, the host of the A3 podcast, Ethan Klein, and the host of the Benny Show, Benny Johnson. Welcome to all of you. Okay, Benny, welcome back to Uncensored, and thank you for your good wishes about my little encounter with a step that led to quite unbelievable amount of damage to my hip. But that has all been.

[Benny Johnson]

I'm very sorry about that, Piers.

[Piers Morgan]

I'm on the road to recovery. Yeah. So wait a second.

[Benny Johnson]

I did have a question for you. You didn't answer this. You didn't answer this when I texted you. Are you experiencing that nhs, that quality NHS service back in the uk, or are you stateside in private care?

[Piers Morgan]

No, I was here, but I have private health insurance, which I made the most of. I would say about the NHS that when it's good, it's great. And if you, Benny Johnson, come to London and you fall like I did and you break your femur and. And you need a new hip, you know what you won't get? You'll get great treatment, and you won't get somebody hovering over you, demanding thousands of dollars. That's the beauty of the nhs. You may not like it, but trust me, in that moment, you'll love it. But let's have a debate, everyone.

[Benny Johnson]

We're happy that you're on the mend. I was very sad to hear about that. Very thankful that you're okay.

[Piers Morgan]

Thank you. I appreciate the message. Okay, look, Don Lemon, not a great friend of either of ours, can be very annoying. Clearly lapping this up now like a dairy farmer milking the udder of a very large set of cows, as you can't blame him. And it'll end up making him more famous, richer, and everything else so completely cataclysmic. Own goal, I would argue, by the Trump administration. However, you know, I've talked to a number of lawyers here, and it's a complex issue, actually, because Lemon's charged with violating an 1871 law originally designed to combat the Ku Klux Klan by conspiring to deprive others of their civil rights and violating the Face act by obstructing access to a house of worship. Now, the Freedom of Access to Clinic entrances Act of 94 is a law signed by the former president Bill Clinton that makes it a federal crime to physically obstruct entry to clinics offering reproductive health services, but has now been adapted for this. So my question for you, Benny, is we've all watched the footage. We've all seen what happened. Don was broadcasting it to me. There is a qualitative difference between what the protesters were doing, which almost certainly did break the law, and what Don Lemon was doing, which was reporting on what they were doing. And if we don't make that distinction, then whether you're a journalist who skews left or right or down the middle, then the precedent this would set going forward is going to be horrific. So why should we be gleeful, as many on the conservative right are, about the prosecution of Don Lemon?

[Benny Johnson]

So I want to take this a couple different ways here, Piers. I mean, number one, I think you'd be having a very different conversation if Nick Fuentes stormed into a synagogue, wouldn't you, and started harassing the rabbi. Wouldn't you be having a different conversation if Alex Jones stormed a mosque? Right. Like, you'd be, you know.

[Piers Morgan]

Well, no, I would apply. Well, I won't.

[Benny Johnson]

You'd be having a totally. You'd be saying, this is terrible. Like, how dare you. I'm saying that Christians are treated differently in this country. And that's a very good question.

[Piers Morgan]

I would say this, Benny, on that point also. Let me answer.

[Benny Johnson]

You say. I just make my point. I just been talking for, like, 10 seconds.

[Ethan Klein]

Go in there and harass the. The.

[Piers Morgan]

No, finish that.

[Ethan Klein]

Or did he.

[Glenn Beck]

But he.

[Ethan Klein]

But his.

[Glenn Beck]

But he did.

[Benny Johnson]

I mean, look. Okay, so if you read. Did you read the federal filing? Did you read the grand jury indictment?

[Ethan Klein]

I watched the video.

[Benny Johnson]

Right. And they use the video. They watched the video in the grand jury indictment. They used his own video as the evidence against him, along with a number of other. And along with all of the evidence that was provided by the churchgoers. I'm saying that all of the above is wrong and that you can't do that, that these are places of worship, these are also private property, and that Don Lemon was part of a conspiracy to do this because Don Lennon was working with the organizers. He was delivering coffee to them. He was working with the actual individuals who were planning this. He said so on his live stream. And then he went up to the front of the pulpit and started harassing the pastor there at the front of the pulpit. Now, what was also happening was also. It's on. It's on video. So what was also happening here was that little children were being wrongfully imprisoned. Do you know this? Like, little children were being wrongfully imprisoned. If you read the indictment, the children were being kept in their Sunday schools by the protesters. Harassed, spit on, attacked. They weren't able to get to their parents. And Don Lemon says is in the. In the video. And thank you for mentioning this, Ethan. That is on video. Don Lemon says in the video, these children look traumatized. Well, actually, that's the point. This is an exact quote from his live stream. And so if you think that that's okay to do to, like, little children in a church or children in a synagogue or children in a mosque, I think it's all wrong. I think that these places of worship should be off limits for people protesting or attacking them.

[Ethan Klein]

Political operative. His job is to lie.

[Piers Morgan]

Yeah.

[Ethan Klein]

That's not what happened to the administration.

[Benny Johnson]

That's right.

[Piers Morgan]

Let me bring Brian. Okay. Okay. Hang on, hang on. Don't talk at once. Don't all talk at once. Let me get a Brian next. Brian. I do think Benny raised a good point. That's why I tried to answer his question in. In real time. But it was aimed at everybody, which is if that had been Alex Jones, who does a version of what Don Lemon does, but to the right. If he had gone into a mosque, for example, and he'd gone in with a group of protesters who then interrupted the worship and traumatized young Muslim kids. Right. Or whatever. An exact similar situation. But a mosque, and it's Alex Jones, can you say with all honesty, you would be out here defending Alex Jones?

[Brian Shapiro]

Well, first of all, full disclosure, I'm friends with Don Lemon. And to answer your question, Pierce, if Alex Jones wasn't protesting because Don Lemon wasn't protesting, Benny Johnson is lying when he says that Don Lemon harassed the pastor. If Alex Jones wasn't harassing anybody and didn't disturb anybody, I would be saying the same thing I'm about to say right now. Don Lemon was not protesting. He wasn't breaking the law. Maybe you could cite him for maybe trespassing. But the fact of the matter here is, is that this is not going to hold up in court. This is a charade. This is another example of the Donald Trump administration that is weaponizing the doj. And yes, I do think the color of his skin, certainly his politics and his sexuality have something to do with this. But you see people like Benny Johnson, okay, who I do believe is a right wing shill for Donald Trump, they're the first people after January six that called It a tourist visit. They patriots and hostages if you beat cops. But, oh, my God, Don Lemon didn't storm a church, by the way. He walked into the church, he took out his cell phone and he started recording. But. But to Benny, people like Benny, he. This is the worst thing in the world. Put him in jail. But yet when it comes to January 6th, if you beat cops, they're hostages and patriots. Benny, my advice to you is stop being a Donald Trump cock and tell the truth and be honest for once in your life. I know you make a lot of money.

[Benny Johnson]

What about Steve Baker?

[Brian Shapiro]

Every single day. But you're lying.

[Benny Johnson]

So wait a second. What about Steve Baker? So Steve Baker's a journalist for the Blaze. He was arrested for covering January 6th. Steve Baker, was he just a journalist? Should he be freed? Are you in favor of Steve Baker? Are you advocating for Steve Baker?

[Brian Shapiro]

You see what Benny just did? The guy, his messiah, who he supports. Donald Trump called those who beat cops with their own batons. Some of these cops have.

[Piers Morgan]

But I'll answer his question, though. Brian, Brian, answer his question about Steve Baker. See, Steve Baker was sent to jail. Today's show is sponsored by Oxford Natural, makers of the Optimum Day and Optimum Night, all natural supplements. Thousands of Brits and Americans are already taking them with incredible results. Optimum Day boosts your energy and supports weight loss throughout the day. Optimum Night helps you relax and get deep, refreshing sleep. They have countless success stories, including from some very familiar faces. England legend Michael owen, who lost £40. AFTV's Robbie, who lost more than £100. To watch their full stories and many more, scan the QR code on your screen or visit oxfordnatural.com peers and here's the best part. Use the code peers and get 70% off your first order. You're 70% off with the code. Pierce.

[Brian Shapiro]

Yes, I believe that some of those like Baker, and I'm on the record saying this, Benny, were over prosecuted. Absolutely. The people that I was concerned about on January six were those violent criminals. Don Lemon's never been arrested for a crime in his life. Don Lemon has never been charged with a crime in his life. He took out his cell phone, he recorded. He didn't storm the Capitol moments before he walked into the church. And he followed these people. He wasn't necessarily, quote, working with them. It's all on the live stream. And by the way, the one flaw.

[Piers Morgan]

Okay, but Brian, Brian, Brian, the one flaw, I think in that defense, and I broadly agree with you about this, I don't think he should be prosecuted. But he does, where I think he's a bit vulnerable, he does, in his own livestream, repeatedly use the word we. We are gonna go in there right now. If you're trying to paint a picture, as Benny did earlier, of a conspiracy where Don is not just a journalist reporting, but he's actually an active participant in the protest group that goes in using the phrase we. We are going to go in here. And I think he's going to be problematic for it because it implies that he is part of the protest group.

[Brian Shapiro]

But Pierce, I hear what you're saying, okay? But here's what they're going to have to prove in court. I'm talking about the prosecutors. Was he actively protesting? Was he disturbing a church service in one way or another? And in my personal opinion, the answer is no. All he did, I repeat, is take out his cell phone and started to record, as any journalist would do. And then he conducted a few interviews. Now, at worst case scenario, you might be able to get him on a trespassing charge. But Pierce, let's be honest here. And I think for the most part we agree on this. This is nonsense. It's because who Don Lemon is. This is exactly what's going on here. I find it interesting. They don't want a full investigation. People like Benny, when it comes to Jonathan Ross. When you shoot an innocent 37 year old woman in the face, Nothing to see here, but let's have a full on investigation for a bunch of protesters. Well, the worst thing I don't.

[Piers Morgan]

All right, let me bring in Rod, because the worst thing, Rod, for me about this is if you could have scripted the one thing Don Lemon would have loved most to happen to him in the last few days, it would be to be arrested for something like this by the Trump administration, turned into an instant martyr to the extent that he goes to the Clive Davis pre Grammys party and they give him a standing ovation. Right? He got a bigger cheer than some of the big superstars. This is Don Lemon's idea of a dream come true. So you know, if anyone thinks he's going to either silence or, or neuter Don Lemon or indeed deter other people like Don Lemon from doing the same. I do think, by the way, Brian, I don't want you to respond to this, but the idea that he's being targeted cause he's black or gay, I think is ridiculous. He's annoying, whatever his skin color and sexuality, but he's loving his moment because it has played right into his hands. He's Gonna get a load more clicks, a load more money. He's a lot more famous. So, Rod, this doesn't work for me on any level, making Don Lemon the most famous martyr in American journalism. I'm doing it in a way that looks to most people like overreach. How does that make him win for Trump?

[Richard Blagojevich]

Well, Piers, I'm super sensitive when it comes to people who are getting arrested. I spent 2,896 days suffering and placed in prison for political things, not crimes. For conversations on telephones were started by Obama. Those weren't crimes. That was free speech.

[Ethan Klein]

What was that for?

[Richard Blagojevich]

So when I see what's happening to Don Lemon and what I see what happened to most of the people on January 6, this is the over criminalization of fundamental freedoms in America. I don't like Don Lemon. I think he's not even remotely an objective journalist. And I think what you're saying about him being martyred now in the political left is very true. He was not there to report honestly about what he was seeing. He was there propagandizing. But in a free society, we all have a right to freely propagandize. And it's up to the American people to decide whether or not you believe us or not. So I think just as a matter of what was right or wrong, as your guest, Mr. Shapiro says, unless he was protesting disturbing someone and there was mob action or something involved in his time being there, if he was just reporting as a biased left wing reporter, I don't see that being criminal. And from a practical point of view, yes, I agree they've martyred him. Unfortunately, they elevated him. It was a bad tactical move as well. And I will say this, I think our country is in deep trouble because of the weaponization that's going on. Nobody has been more weaponized than Donald Trump by Democratic prosecutors in New York and in Georgia and Jack Smith for non crimes. It's a mistake, I think, for our country. If now the Trump people try to make up for that by being vengeful, I don't think they are. I think in this particular case, it was just a bad move by whoever the prosecutor was. But I do think it's important moving forward. I think President Trump is the type of leader who understands that, that we better do something about weaponization, lawfare and protect our freedoms in America because, and I say this about my own party, no one does weaponization or lawfare more so or better than the Democratic Party.

[Ethan Klein]

We don't want you.

[Piers Morgan]

Right, Ethan? Ethan, you've been waiting for A place.

[Ethan Klein]

To blame you as a Democrat. And the reason for that, Respectfully, I'm a Trump, OK. Politician and modern American. Have you ever sentenced to 14 years for attempting to steal to sell a Senate seat? You were caught on by the way.

[Richard Blagojevich]

That charge was reversed by the applause.

[Ethan Klein]

To a microphone as the Starbucks drink announcer. I mean, why are you even here?

[Richard Blagojevich]

Rod, respectfully, you are precisely a person. You should get your facts right, my friend. And no quid pro quo. Read the case.

[Ethan Klein]

Were you in prison? Were you found guilty of corruption?

[Richard Blagojevich]

I was convicted for non crimes by the use of jury instructions that were not crimes and sent to prison for 14 years. Never took a penny because I fought back and I fought back against this kind of weaponization.

[Ethan Klein]

Tried to take a pen.

[Richard Blagojevich]

You in this particular case, you said.

[Ethan Klein]

Quote, this seat is golden about the seat you are attempting to sell.

[Richard Blagojevich]

No, I said this. He just f and gone by them.

[Ethan Klein]

Not giving up.

[Richard Blagojevich]

Make a political deal because Obama asked to make a political deal. Get your facts right. And by the way, 98% of those FBI tapes are still.

[Ethan Klein]

The judge got the facts right.

[Richard Blagojevich]

You don't have the facts.

[Ethan Klein]

Listen, you got pardoned by Trump. You're out here glazing them up. We know the deal. But the truth is don't sit here and act like you have any legitimate clout or you have no legitimacy in this world. You're a criminal and you use the American democracy like a piggy bank. Again, the only microphone you should be near is Starbucks.

[Piers Morgan]

Order.

[Richard Blagojevich]

You know, let me say this.

[Ethan Klein]

What's the name on the drink, buddy?

[Richard Blagojevich]

I would never give in to those weaponized prosecutors what they did to me at the triple A level, to a Democrat governor. The same kind of people did that same thing to President Trump at the major league level. And it's wrong if you do it to me, Trump.

[Benny Johnson]

If you do it to Trump.

[Richard Blagojevich]

And it's wrong if you do it to Don Lemon. And it's wrong if you do it to Don Lemon. And the key to a democracy is an informed electorate.

[Brian Shapiro]

Hold on.

[Richard Blagojevich]

You need to get your facts right, my friend, and get yourself informed.

[Ethan Klein]

I need to get your facts right.

[Brian Shapiro]

Something.

[Richard Blagojevich]

I know my facts.

[Ethan Klein]

I hold on the judge. That's not jail. The judge and jury said.

[Richard Blagojevich]

Okay, they tried me twice.

[Piers Morgan]

You know what? All right, guys, go ahead. I think we're drifting.

[Ethan Klein]

One.

[Piers Morgan]

We are drifting. We are drifting off.

[Ethan Klein]

Respectfully, we're drifting.

[Piers Morgan]

We're drifting off topic. And I'll say, Ethan, let's get back to the topic I want to talk about. Don Lemon.

[Ethan Klein]

He agrees that Don Lemon shouldn't be arrested. So I'll say even this Trump lackey is willing to make that concession where someone like Benny here, who, let's be real, his overlords go beyond Donald Trump. He's accountable to the Russians who paid him a nice, hefty, beautiful hundreds of thousands from tenant media. So more than that again. Well, we don't know. Maybe Benny can tell us how much DOJ said.

[Benny Johnson]

The DOJ said that I was Egypt among the. I'm sorry, the DOJ says I am victim of a crime in that me, Tim Pool, Dave Rubin and a number of others.

[Ethan Klein]

So. So which is it? Are you.

[Benny Johnson]

So what? So. Having an overlord lacking.

[Ethan Klein]

Or are you a traitor? Are you a traitor or a fool? Those are the two options.

[Piers Morgan]

You know what the ad hominem stuff. Ethan, Ethan, Ethan.

[Brian Shapiro]

It's not ad hominem attack. That's what happened.

[Benny Johnson]

Listen, it's total ad hominem.

[Piers Morgan]

They are ad hominem.

[Ethan Klein]

I'm not attacking your person. And I don't want to spend recounting.

[Piers Morgan]

What I don't to spend with respect to everybody. I don't want to spend the entire panel talking about individuals on the panel.

[Brian Shapiro]

Can we go to Ethan Lemon?

[Piers Morgan]

Just give me your. Ethan, just. Just give me your assessment of what's happened with Don Lemon.

[Ethan Klein]

Gladly. So I agree with the majority on the panel that, I mean, he shouldn't. He did nothing. He walked in there as a journalist recording. He said, you guys are very keen to talk about what he said on camera. But you forget this one, Benny. He said, quote, I'm not part of the group. I'm a journalist. Talk about we, we, we, which is like a words game. It's semantics. But again, you go back to what he actually said, and it's quote, I am not a part of the group. I am a journalist. So, you know, I think the whole something stupid at this point because it's like, it's so obvious that this was just done as a revenge at a spite. It's political spite here. So just there's literally no question to it. And I think you would agree. He's like, yeah, it's spy.

[Brian Shapiro]

So Pier, had. You had Valentina, if you recall, on your show about a month ago, I think we both agree she's despicable. She's running for office in Texas. She went into a church. There's video of this a month ago. And she called the churchgoers pedophiles. They asked her to leave. Multiple people asked her to Leave. I'm sure Benny's not talking about this, or you'll say, I don't know anything about that. But she didn't leave right away. It's all on video. She stormed a church. She called people pedophiles. Not only is she not arrested, but the DOJ is not even investigating this case. So this is a double standard. At a minimum, Don Lemon didn't break any laws. He wasn't harassing anybody. I'm sorry if a few kids were crying and their church service was disturbed. I really am sorry about that. But I care a little bit more about Renee Good's family and the fact that her kids are growing up without a mother, but people like Benny don't want a full investigation into that. Let's call these people who are murdered domestic terrorists and assassins. But, boy, that guy Don Lemon, I can't believe he stormed the church. And he did a couple interviews. Benny, give me a break.

[Benny Johnson]

I can, you know, I can sit here and be logically consistent in my worldview, which is that you should not storm places of worship, period. I don't want anybody on the left doing it. I don't want anybody doing it. I'm saying you shouldn't do that. I also agree. I mean, I know this is going to sound crazy, but I also agree with probably everyone on this panel, which is that Don Lemon is a black hole narcissist. He spent 30 years in cable news. He's going to use this. He's going to use this to. He's going to use it. He is a narcissist that pulls literally the gravity. Gravity in on himself. He's going to use this for further.

[Ethan Klein]

All right, so not a rage.

[Benny Johnson]

Further popularity. And so you gotta have to. You're gonna have to bring. You're gonna have to bring the receipts. When it comes to prosecuting, everyone said this. This is the. This is what happens with high profile prosecutions. You have to be able to bring the receipts. If you actually read the grand jury testimony, which I find this remarkable, by the way. Every one of these people on the panel is probably tweeted, no one's above the law. Nobody's above the law. No one's above the law. Well, it was a grand jury in dark blue Minnesota that prosecute that said Don Lemon deserves to be arrested. It was a grand jury that did that. So is somebody just said, I want.

[Brian Shapiro]

To go back to what Benny just said.

[Benny Johnson]

The idea that Donald Trump is sitting in his office. Donald Trump sitting in his office, like, pointing and saying, arrest that man.

[Piers Morgan]

That's not how.

[Brian Shapiro]

Frowned.

[Benny Johnson]

I find it amazing that you say like children, little Christian children. I don't care if little, you know, I'm sorry. That little Christian children were crying and weeping and sobbing in their church. Have you talked to the church pastor? I've spoken with the pastor, that church, Jonathan Parnell.

[Brian Shapiro]

So let me, let me respond.

[Benny Johnson]

These individuals were terrorizing the little children in the church. I can't believe that you. You're sitting there in, you're sitting there in favor of this. You can see the rest of the kids crying in their parents arms. What happened here was immoral. It's despicable. It is indefensible. It's utterly indefensible. Places of worship should not be stormed by anyone, period.

[Ethan Klein]

I'm okay with those protesters being charged.

[Brian Shapiro]

But Let me just. 30 seconds.

[Piers Morgan]

Brian, Brian, very quick response and then I want to change. Yes, I want to change topic after Brian's very quick response to that.

[Brian Shapiro]

First of all, I don't believe you should protest in a church or private property. I'm not condoning that behavior, number one. Number two, you just called my friend Don Lemon a narcissist. You are the same guy that is a shill for Donald Trump. So I don't want to hear somebody like Betty Johnson who supports Donald Trump.

[Benny Johnson]

I'm just like, again, like he was on. Watch the interview with Piers. What was it like on your show? Like, it is what it is. You know, it is what it is. People have big egos in this profession and it's, you know, it's fine. I'm literally saying, I'm saying that you better come correct when you're bringing the receipts and when you're charging this guy. That's all I'm saying is I like. Yes, you're right. I think everybody on this panel agrees that Don Lemon will then, you know, utilize this. We saw it at the Grammys last night, you know, for more power, fame. And I wouldn't be surprised, I wouldn't be surprised if he got a job back in tv. He was fired by. I wouldn't be surprised if he got a job back in TV after this. That's all.

[Brian Shapiro]

You have no idea what Don Lemon wants or doesn't want to do. Benny, you don't know him personally like I do. I can tell you he is not a narcissist. The narcissist is the orange turd who you support because you were the Donald trump knee pads 24 7. So don't talk about tax.

[Benny Johnson]

That's Right, Got it. More pejorative.

[Piers Morgan]

Okay.

[Ethan Klein]

I want to talk about journalist Benny. I mean, let's start with you, buddy.

[Piers Morgan]

No, let's not go down those roads.

[Ethan Klein]

How much they pay you? We really need to know.

[Piers Morgan]

Let's not get into this. I don't want to get into individual panel members. Let's try and keep.

[Brian Shapiro]

Don Lemon will not be important. Don Lemon will not be convicted. I guarantee you Don Lemon will not be convicted of these crimes. He will be exonerated in a courtroom.

[Piers Morgan]

I think you're probably right.

[Brian Shapiro]

He's going to be fine.

[Piers Morgan]

I think you're probably right. But I think also Don Lemon, I'll be watching his output. I've been watching Don's output in the last few days, and he's gone full on Trump derangement madness. I mean, it's just, he's anti trumping and blinding about Trump.

[Benny Johnson]

I mean, Don Lemon said, by the way, Don Lemon said, okay, what he's.

[Piers Morgan]

Making, he's making a financial play. Making financial play. But let's be under no illusion. Don Walsh's point, Don's raison d' etre now is to be the number one Trump hater in the world media. That's fine, but let's not pretend that's not what he's doing.

[Benny Johnson]

He went on Jen Walsh's podcast afterwards and said he's going after this church because of white supremacy, because the parishioners were white. Are you in favor of that? You know, this is like a hate crime. Are you said it. There's multiple clips of this, of them saying black hole.

[Ethan Klein]

If you want to talk about hate crimes.

[Benny Johnson]

That's a.

[Piers Morgan]

That's a.

[Benny Johnson]

First of all, that's like a. That's a term. That's something that exists in the galaxy.

[Brian Shapiro]

Can I answer? Because I asked him about this, because he's done my show probably five times in the last month. So he believes there is something in this country called white privilege. Benny, you have it and I have it. He does believe there are some cases in the church or in America where there is white supremacy. Now, I know you probably believe there isn't anything like Tucker Carlson, that white privilege doesn't exist in this country and white supremacy doesn't exist. But the fact of the matter is, Benny, is that it does. Now, I would like to go back to the black hole comment. What did you mean by that when you made that statement?

[Ethan Klein]

I'm surprised.

[Benny Johnson]

Black hole is something that is exists in space and time and it absorbs gravity. And so it's just something that Don Lemon is going to take the gravity of the situation and use it to become more powerful. That's what I've said. And I said that the Trump administration has to be very careful in charging this, because this is what people do in these kind of circumstances. If you're Don Lemonade, sure.

[Brian Shapiro]

So, Betty, I'll tell you what Don Lemon won't do. He won't make billions of dollars in a crypto scandal. He won't build a ballroom for his own financial gain. Jared Kushner, one of his friends, won't be taking $2.1 billion from the Saudis. So if you want about taking power over and having power and taking advantage of it, sure, Don Lemon is going to be more successful because of this. But do you know why? Because of the buffoons in the White House that decided to charge this guy. And I think most of us agree on this panel, it's not going to hold up in a courtroom. So if you have anybody to blame, it's not Don Lemon. It's the morons like Pam Bondi and Donald Trump that did this to Don Lemon, which will help him more in the long run. But please don't talk to me and lecture me about power and then taking advantage of that when Donald Trump is amazing.

[Benny Johnson]

What you just admitted here. And I'm trying to be respectful, as you know, as you're rambling. So you just said that it's okay that Don Lemon attacked this church because they're white.

[Brian Shapiro]

So, first of all, Don Lemon made general terms about the church. He wasn't specifically talking about an individual. He wasn't specifically talking about an individual group of people in the church. He made very generic and general claims, which I agree with him, that white supremacy in this country is a problem, and white privilege in this country is a problem as well. And if you don't agree with that, that there is something called white privilege and that, yes, white supremacy is an issue in this country, then you could take the page from Tucker Carlson and be. Have the blinders on and be complicit. Benny. That's up to you.

[Piers Morgan]

I do think it's probably worth bearing in mind that. It's probably worth bearing in mind at this stage that Don is married to a rather wealthy, privileged, elitist white man, isn't he?

[Brian Shapiro]

Yeah. I mean, I wouldn't deny that. That's fine, but that's not the point that Don Lemon was trying to make.

[Piers Morgan]

I'm just saying I understand he seems a very nice chap, but he is white and privileged. I want to change the subject, I want to move on to the Epstein scandal. Rod, I want to bring you in here. The Epstein scandal is raging ever bigger, but accountability is still really not moving, particularly in America. So in the uk, the human being formerly known as Prince Andrew, now Andrew Manbatten Windsor, he's been brought down, he's been finished. Lord Mandelson is probably very soon not going to be a lord and may well be facing a police investigation as he's finished. He's finished. So a lot of British people who've been named in these files are being brought to book and dealt with. No high profile Americans so far. Why?

[Richard Blagojevich]

Well, I mean, the wheels of justice sometimes move slowly. I think more information is coming out and as a result of that, I think you're going to see action because some of this information has been suppressed. Like the 98% of the FBI tapes on my case to the guy with the Campbell. No, I think, I think eventually some people will be brought to justice. I mean, here again, you don't want to, you know, over prosecute. You don't want to jump to conclusions and maybe charge somebody like a Don Lemon for something that may not be a crime. I think you're going to be very careful with something like this because if you're accused of something like this, your life is destroyed. You know, very notable people are now caught up in Epstein, those relationships. President Clinton for one, Bill Gates for another. Not just Prince Andrew. And you know, I was in politics. You meet a lot of people along the way. Thank goodness I never met him. But it's very likely that most of the people that intersected with abstinence had nothing to do with any of that stuff, didn't know anything about it. And so I think it's, I think it's prudent that whatever prosecutions come, it's done judiciously and carefully because these are very, very serious allegations. They should be prosecuted if in fact there's probable cause that someone did something to a child. But again, you don't want to destroy somebody's life when you jump the gun.

[Ethan Klein]

Friend Donald Trump.

[Richard Blagojevich]

Okay.

[Piers Morgan]

Let me ask, let me ask. Hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on. I want to ask Benny, I want to ask Benny this. So Benny, it seems to me I've taken a position on this from the start that if you distanced yourself completely from Epstein after his conviction for being a pedophile, then, okay, you've got plausible deniability. You didn't know what kind of guy he was. He was a big socialite wealthy guy mixing with the rich and famous and powerful. But then he got a conviction for a sex crime against a minor. Okay. At that point there's no confusion about who he is. And yet we see people like Elon Musk, for example, the richest man in the world, owner of X, who has been on a sort of rampage the last few days of trying to justify why he's the knight in shining armor about all this. He blew the whistle. He's the one demanding prosecutions but repeatedly saying, I never, I turned down all invitations to the island, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And yet we're seeing in real time emails which directly contradict that. Not that he ever went to the island, but he certainly expressed a keenness to go there. I wanted to know when the wildest parties were taking place and so on. And it just, you know, as I've said on this show already, it's the little things where, like when he was Prince Andrew, it's the little things where if they're not telling the truth about the little stuff, what else are they not telling the truth about? Are you concerned that we're seeing a lot of people who, you know, Howard Lapnick, another one, you know, I never saw him again after whatever date it was. And then we know that's not true. Now a lot of the chronology that these people are trying to paint has been destroyed by the reality of the documentary evidence from these files. What do you make of that?

[Benny Johnson]

Yeah, you're exactly right. There is two different distinct timelines for people that were dealing with Jeffrey Epstein. There's pre prosecution in Florida for pedophilia, child trafficking, underage abuse of young women. This is what Jeffrey Epstein was charged with. And then there's dealing with him after those prosecutions. And of course he pled to those charges. He then was put inside of his own wing of a low security prison. He was allowed to go home on the weekends. Alex Acosta was the federal prosecutor there in the Bush era, by the way, which is frankly something that I'd really like to look into. Like why the hell did Jeffrey Epstein get to skate on these early charges? If you stack up the charges against Jeffrey Epstein, there It was in 2006-2008, George Bush was president, Robert Mueller was in charge of the FBI. These charges should have landed him in prison for the rest of his life. None of us should be having this conversation. Jeffrey Epstein should be rotting in a prison cell for his crimes that he pled to in 2006 and through 2008, his prosecution. Why the hell was all of the people that were with him given immunity, like Ghislaine Maxwell. Why did that happen? I think this is ultimately the real question because there's a lot of scummy behavior.

[Glenn Beck]

So why would.

[Benny Johnson]

This is the one who let Benny finished. And let me just finish my, Let me just finish my thought here because like, you know, everyone's going to sit here and accuse me of being a shill for the Republican Party. Listen, George Bush was president during this time. Alex Acosta was working for George Bush. Alex Acosta said, don't charge Jeffrey Epstein. Back off. He belongs to Intel. There's something so much deeper that is going on here. And what we're seeing in the 3 million files, photographs and videos that have been released is certainly threads of Jeffrey Epstein on a state level being a state actor while running a compromise operation against some of those powerful people, including members of royal families, heads of state, Ehud Barak, a ton of other people that were all ensnared in this. Very rich people boot him potentially. But, but all I'm trying to say here is that like, we shouldn't even, we shouldn't be talking about Jeffrey Epstein because that evil son of a bitch should be in prison right now for the rest of his life, rotting in jail for the rest of his life.

[Brian Shapiro]

But Benny, with respect.

[Benny Johnson]

And so like, I wish, I wish we could, like, get back to. I wish you could get back as to who was it that prevented that from happening, because that should.

[Brian Shapiro]

I think I, I find it interesting that Blanche is the guy that said the other day in a press conference that there's really no more investigations here. We're probably not going to find anybody else. I'm paraphrasing here. I also find it interesting that only about 50% of the files have been released. Betty, Donald Trump has called people like you and me stupid for even talking about this. He's been doing everything he can to try to prevent the truth from coming out. And if the defense is, well, why didn't Joe Biden do this? First of all, you mentioned, Maxwell, she was under trial, open investigation, and then there was an appeal. That's. That's number two. There's. And I would also go as far as to say this. The fact of the matter is, is that Donald Trump is all over the Epstein Falls hundreds of times. What did Dan Bongino do about it? What did Cash Patel do about it? Well, they say that Jeffrey Epstein killed himself. There's nothing to see here. We had all these people out there with binders like you, Betty, people out there with binders.

[Benny Johnson]

I didn't hold any binders. Dude, get your facts straight. Like, I'm not going to defend. I'm not. The non release of Epstein evidence. I'm not going to defend it. Like, I think that. I think that it was a mistake. I think it was a total mistake. I'm really glad to see 3 million documents out. I want all of them out. I will, I will join with you and say I want all that. I can be intellectually consistent on all of this. Everybody who committed a crime, everyone who committed a crime, like everyone who committed a crime should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. I'm enraged. It does really bother me that Jeffrey Epstein was allowed to skate because he belongs to Intel.

[Brian Shapiro]

One question, Benny, one quick question. Does it bother you. Hold on. Does it bother you, Benny, that Donald Trump is all over the Epstein falls, regardless of whether you think there's criminal activity or not? I'm asking you man to man, does it. Is it problematic to you? I guess that's the right word to use. That Donald Trump was his best friend for over 10 years? That Donald Trump was at least eight times on the, on the plane. We learned that in the Maxwell trial. He's on the flight block. Does it bother you he's all over the Epstein files at all?

[Benny Johnson]

What criminal allegations are you talking about?

[Brian Shapiro]

Over a thousand isn't a criminal allegation. I'm asking. Benny, pay attention. Does it bother you and do you think it's problematic?

[Benny Johnson]

I am paying attention.

[Ethan Klein]

Okay.

[Brian Shapiro]

Does it bother you that Donald Trump associated himself with Jeffrey Epstein from that period of time and he's all over the Epstein files because Joe Biden's not in the Epstein files. Barack Obama is not in the Epstein falls. Kamala Harris, does that bother you?

[Benny Johnson]

White House counsel, Barack Obama's White House counsel Katherine Rumler is all over the Epstein files, including. But that woman is my question. Attempting to set up meetings with Obama.

[Ethan Klein]

Let me rephrase that question.

[Benny Johnson]

She was getting lavished with gifts. She was getting lavish with gifts. Yes. Let me ask you.

[Piers Morgan]

I would ask. Don't all talk at once. Don't all talk at once. I would ask Ethan this question, I'd phrase it slightly differently, is I've not seen anything, and correct me if I'm wrong here, but where is the damning evidence that Donald Trump continued to consult with Epstein post his conviction? Because that is the line I draw with all of these high profile people. You can say what you like. But I mean, for example, Take Elon Musk, right? If Elon Musk said, which is entirely believable, that he had no idea about Epstein's conviction, this is what Richard Branson said he didn't know until he did a bit of a deep dive into him. Then it emerged I didn't know Epstein at all, or that he had a conviction. For example, I never met him, never mixed in his circles, whatever. So it would have been a surprise to me. I'm just surprised that Elon Musk, rather than saying I didn't know about that conviction, and that would have changed everything, given how strong he's been, for example, about the grooming gang scandal in the uk. But he hasn't done that. What he said is, I never accepted invitations to be on the island when we have seen all the emails from him, you know, pleading to go on the island. So that's the problem I have with it. So I think with Trump, I've not seen anything incriminating that happens after the conviction. So, you know, Trump can say as he has been, the moment I knew what he was, I ditched him like a sack of spuds. And people that took that position at least can say with some sincerity, once I knew he was a convicted pedophile, I didn't see him again.

[Ethan Klein]

Yeah, I agree with you that essentially there's no smoking gun with Trump post his conviction. I think mostly people, I mean, are rightfully concerned when you see that he appears a thousand times throughout the leaks. Right? And I mean, the guy was very close with him. There's pictures of him, like, looking at young girls and talking about how hot they are with a known trafficker. Well, he wasn't known as a trafficker then, but I think people are rightful, questioning his character. That being said, there is. Yeah, there's no smoking gun that he was associated with them. Afterwards, for example, Elon Musk wrote him a, an email that said, when is the wildest party now? Who, now who, who would ask a convicted, known trafficker when is their wildest party on their island? Right? Like, like you can say, oh, I didn't know. But listen, he did know. This is Epstein. He was a socialite, a New York socialite. These people all know each other. They know, why is he asking him to party? He knows him because he's the party guy. He's the guy. Hey, I got the girls.

[Brian Shapiro]

Yeah, Age, age optional and all that stuff. I agree with everything you just said. There are, there are victims and there are people that made statements to the FBI with the possibility, threatened of perjury if they were lying, I tend to believe those victims. But this is a pattern of behavior with Donald Trump. The 25 plus women that have come forward that have accused him of sexual assault or rape, the hiding, not wanting to talk about Jeffrey Epstein. It's very strange. He doesn't want to talk about it. He calls everybody stupid. Who even brings it up? And again, I go back to Eugene Carroll. I go back to him sexualizing his own daughter. I go back to him bragging about going into teenage girls locker rooms on the Howard Stern show in a beauty pageant that he ran. So there is a history now, is there Crim is the criminally. Have you proven anything in the court of law? Obviously not. But I think where there's smoke is fire. And I absolutely believe that the 3 million files that we haven't seen yet, keep that in mind. Half the files we haven't even seen yet, they've already released these files that I think are pretty damning to Donald Trump. Imagine what's left that they haven't released yet. So let's wait and see. I agree with Benny, okay?

[Piers Morgan]

I don't understand that he wants the.

[Brian Shapiro]

Files to be released.

[Piers Morgan]

I don't disagree with that.

[Ethan Klein]

Grab him by the. Benny.

[Benny Johnson]

Benny has said. Hold on.

[Piers Morgan]

Benny has said very clearly he thinks they should all be released. All right, we're running out of time.

[Benny Johnson]

I just want to get the take on Clinton here. I just want to get the take on Clinton because there are photos of Clinton in the hot tub. There are photos of Clinton made a.

[Ethan Klein]

Video yesterday defending Elon Musk. Do not let him get away.

[Brian Shapiro]

Ben, are you ready for this? Because I'm not a show for anybody. Benny, I'll answer your question directly. I believe that both Donald Trump and Bill Clinton have done some very bad things to young women. But here's the difference between me and you, okay? I don't defend Bill Clinton ad nauseam. You defend Donald Trump.

[Ethan Klein]

None of us.

[Brian Shapiro]

I want. If you're. If. Whether you're a Republican or a Democrat, I want you held to the highest standard of the law. And I want justice for the victims. I don't play what about ism. I agree with you that, yeah, Bill Clinton probably did some very bad things as well. But guess what? Bill Clinton is not the leader of the free world right now. Donald Trump is. And I have yet to see you actually make the case or make a claim that, yeah, Donald Trump probably did some very bad things with Jeffrey Epstein. I will admit that I wouldn't doubt the fact that Bill Clinton has done that. Are you willing to agree with me with some middle ground here and say, yeah, Donald Trump also probably did some bad things. Will you admit that right now on Pierce Morgan?

[Benny Johnson]

No, of course not. Because there's no evidence.

[Brian Shapiro]

Of course.

[Benny Johnson]

Zero.

[Brian Shapiro]

Because.

[Benny Johnson]

But you're saying, you're saying that. You're saying that when Donald Trump was president, leader of the free world. Hold on. Like when Bill Clinton was leader of the free world, he lied under oath about having cheating on his wife with his intern.

[Ethan Klein]

Nobody's office, nobody's defending Bill Clinton.

[Piers Morgan]

You know what I think you know.

[Benny Johnson]

What I'm talking about. Trump, guys, this is the up guys.

[Piers Morgan]

Here's the bottom line with Trump and Bill Clinton. I think the level of embarrassment about their association with Epstein is not dissimilar. Actually. Rod, what would you like to say before I just go to Benny for one last word about your investigation in California? So, Rod.

[Richard Blagojevich]

No, I think the record should reflect that of all the people we've talked about in this conversation, Donald Trump is the only one who actually kicked Epstein out of a place and barred him from Mar a Lago when he learned that there were reasons to think that there was some creepy activity going on.

[Glenn Beck]

It's true.

[Piers Morgan]

It's more than Clinton did.

[Richard Blagojevich]

Nobody else did.

[Piers Morgan]

Yes, I think it's a reasonable point. I just think the bottom line for Trump is he appears to prosecutor himself from Epstein after the conviction. And I do think that gives him a better position for defending himself than the ones who carried on. Because, you know, if you carry on seeing a guy when he's convicted of being a pedophile, it means you don't care that he abuses underage kids, period. Benny, I just want to end very quickly with you with this extraordinary video you put out exposing a massive fraud in California. Just summarize it quickly.

[Ethan Klein]

I thought you were going to say the one he defended, Elon Musk, associating with Epstein that he posted yesterday. I guess we got confused about which video. You can address either one.

[Piers Morgan]

Ben, Benny, as.

[Ethan Klein]

As Piers just said, you defended Elon Musk.

[Benny Johnson]

Hold on. Emailing somebody isn't a crime. I think we should be focused on crimes. When it comes to wildest party, what is the wildest part?

[Piers Morgan]

It doesn't mean he committed any crime.

[Ethan Klein]

Let's not sit there and act like this is all innocent like Benny did in his YouTube video yesterday as he continues to shill for either Trump or the Russians.

[Brian Shapiro]

Pedal.

[Piers Morgan]

I want to give Benny the chance to. I want to give Benny a chance to talk about Very quickly, his investigation in California. Benny.

[Benny Johnson]

So California is the epicenter of all fraud. They spend $31 billion on their homeless crisis. That's $170,000 per homeless person. And the result of that is that homelessness has increased exponentially in California, as has federal funding of the homeless crisis in California. Those dollars are being stolen in amounts that are staggering. That makes Somali fraud in Minnesota look like pennies. And it's time for a full scale federal investigation. We were able to uncover hundreds of millions of dollars of theft. This comes on the heels of other major frauds in California, including the theft of federal funding for unemployment.

[Ethan Klein]

Covid.

[Benny Johnson]

And this is why you have a state that still can't repay their Covid loans. California is an absolute nightmare. And it's why they're gonna lose five electoral seats in the next 2030 census, because people cannot get out fast enough. Nonetheless, Gavin Newsom wants to run for president. So I think that it is. And he is absolutely already running for president right now. And so I think it's wor a heavy, critical look at how he has managed what I would argue the most resource rich and the crown jewel of America, the state of California, one of the most beautiful and gifted states, and how he's run it truly into the ground. And so that's what we're doing. We're doing a full investigation. Shirley's also out there right now, and so we look forward to his investigation as well.

[Ethan Klein]

I'd like to respond, if I may.

[Piers Morgan]

Thank you very much. Well, finally.

[Benny Johnson]

Thanks, guys.

[Piers Morgan]

Have your final word.

[Ethan Klein]

At a time when ICE is rolling up to people in unmarked vehicles and unmarked outfits carrying people off the street and taking off in a van when we have fascism marching into America now, who gives a shit about what's going on in California? Right? There's nothing more urgent than what is happening right now with ice.

[Piers Morgan]

There's zero about both, surely. Look, I don't give a shit about.

[Ethan Klein]

I think you can give a shit.

[Piers Morgan]

About and what's going on. I didn't give a shit about corruption.

[Ethan Klein]

Yeah, but I think one is much more urgent. I think Benny is intentionally bearing the lead here. I think we're sleepwalking into fascist police overreach. And I want to say fuck ICE and get the fuck out.

[Brian Shapiro]

Pierce, can I just end by saying one quick statement?

[Piers Morgan]

Well, I can't. I can't have people making endless more stuff. This isn't the Grammys.

[Ethan Klein]

I want to know.

[Piers Morgan]

This is one of the Grammys where you all queue up to say I. So I'M afraid I'm calling it there. We're allowed one before we finish.

[Brian Shapiro]

Thank you.

[Piers Morgan]

Yeah.

[Brian Shapiro]

Let me just say I'm sorry about your fall. I'm glad you're recovering. I'm glad.

[Piers Morgan]

Thank you.

[Brian Shapiro]

I was worried about you. We need people like you doing this, these kinds of shows. I respect you a lot, Pierce, and I'm glad you're feeling better. We gotta get you, get you back into healthy again. So I'm glad you're back and thank you, man.

[Piers Morgan]

I, I appreciate it.

[Ethan Klein]

I want to just thank you for knowing your place and, and piping down and not speaking too much, as your opinion is, is basically worth nothing. So thank you, Governor.

[Piers Morgan]

Let's. Why don't we end on the happier note that Brian left us with. Thank you all very much. I appreciate it.

[Brian Shapiro]

Thanks, Pierce.

[Piers Morgan]

Returning to Uncensored now is Glenn Beck, the founder of Blaze Media. Glenn, great to have you back.

[Glenn Beck]

Thank you. Thank you. Good to be back.

[Piers Morgan]

I feel like even though we talked to each other every few months, so much happens even in a calendar week at the moment in the news cycle. Have you ever known any period in your career where the news cycle is so frenzied?

[Ethan Klein]

No.

[Glenn Beck]

You know, I, I thought about that the other day. I'm approaching my 49th year in broadcast and never have I seen anything like this. Barack Obama sped things up. He, you know, kind of overwhelmed and short circuited the system in a way, and I thought that was fast. This is between what Donald Trump is doing on the world stage and, you know, politically here. What is happening, the escalation of violence and these protests. I've never seen anything like it. It's reminiscent of certain time periods, but nothing like this.

[Piers Morgan]

On the protest. Let's take that first, given you've mentioned it, because I think you have quite a nuanced take on what's been happening here with both Alex Pretty and Rene Gu. And I think it's probably not dissimilar to mine, and correct me if I'm misinterpreting what you've said, but, you know, my gut feeling having watched these videos, like everybody, from every angle, multiple times is I don't think that these ICE agents set out to be cold blooded murderers or assassins. And nor do I think that the victims were entirely blameless of putting themselves into a situation where, which escalated. However, neither deserved to die. And the general febrile atmosphere that led to their deaths is a direct result, I think, of overreach by ICE fueled by the administration or particular members of that administration. And that it's got completely out of control and that Donald Trump, I think in the last few days recognized this and has put the reins on it.

[Glenn Beck]

So I think, I think I agree with most of what you said. First of all, thank you for being an adult. A lot of people in the world, and especially America, cannot hold two thoughts at once anymore. You can be a protester and have a right to protest and also, you know, be surrounded by insurrectionists, but not be one yourself. You can be a cop and really doing your job and make a mistake and somebody dies and doesn't make you a bad person. I mean. Two thoughts. Two thoughts.

[Piers Morgan]

Yes.

[Glenn Beck]

And that what I believe happened at both of these things, I do believe, I mean, you know, we, we expose some radical ties and whether they themselves were radicals or not, I'm not sure, but I know the ties were there to, you know, these, these Turtle Island Marxist kind of things. And I'm not saying they either one of them believed in it, but they were tied to those organizations and were involved with those organizations. And Turtle island is basically a way of saying America is not legitimate. It belongs to the Native American and the white man should have never been here and it all should be wiped off. There's no, there's very few people actually believe that, but I think those are the radicals that are actually in charge. And then most people on the streets, I think, are either some of them good intention because they think that something is wrong, or wildly misinformed and a useful idiot. I think the administration made some wrong moves on the way they handled after Renee Good was killed. I think the way they came out again about that, I think was a mistake that only riled things up more. But you also have to look at the political situation in Minnesota. There is more fraud in Minnesota with the, with the state government and the governor knew about it. There's more fraud than I think we've ever found in American history in a state and a program. And nobody's talking about that. So I think there are also some very powerful political forces that are trying to do everything they can to stop people from talking about that. But as you said, I'm glad to see that the President, I think he did turn a corner. He's got a very tough road walk here. He can't be weak on it, but he, he can't make things worse. You know, he's, this is going to take the best of his ability to get through because I think we are.

[Piers Morgan]

In, well, what was he know what's, what's, what I imagine would be frustrating to him is that what he's achieved on the southern border, for example, has been staggeringly successful and has almost universal approval. Right. What he's achieved when he says, look, we want to kick all the undocumented people in the United States who then commit crimes unconnected to their status, everyone broadly agrees with that, too. The flashpoint is, and I keep talking about this because I think it's. What the real flashpoint is here is I think the majority of Americans that I know, and it's reflected in the polls, they're compassionate people, they're people of common sense. And they have looked at people, for example, you've come here into the United States undocumented, but then built lies for themselves where they've had kids, they've got jobs, they've paid taxes, they've contributed to society, they don't commit other crimes, they're law abiding citizens for all intents and purposes, without actually being citizens. And they don't like the optics of masked ICE agents seemingly rampaging around into Home Depot and other places and grabbing people like that and trying to throw them out of the country.

[Glenn Beck]

I would tell you that the President agrees with what you just said. That is one of the things he made very, very clear. We are going after the criminals. We're going after the people who are dangerous, raped our children, raped our wives, our daughters, et cetera, et cetera. Murdered people. Those people are the ones they're going after. The mask is, is a tough one because again, I don't like, I don't like our police in masks either. I don't like anybody in masks. I had a problem with it during COVID I don't like the mask idea. It's very impersonal. And especially when it comes to good guys and bad guys. Why are you wearing a mask? But you don't understand that in America these people are being targeted and their families, people are.

[Piers Morgan]

Oh, yeah, I get it.

[Ethan Klein]

Yeah.

[Glenn Beck]

Right. So, I mean, the problem is chicken and the egg. You've got to stop the violence. You have to stop people. If the left would come out, if walls would come out and say, enough of this, stop it, stop it. Respect them. We've worked out a deal with President Trump. We're going to turn over these people, et cetera, et cetera, this would all go away. But there's not that honest negotiation.

[Piers Morgan]

No, I agree. And actually the most pleasing moment of a very difficult week, I think, was when Trump did pick the phone up to waltz and they had what apparently was a very constructive conversation that should have happened a long time before. The idea that the governor was not allowing the local cops to do their job on the streets, to police crowds and was leaving it to what were, in my opinion, clearly poorly trained ICE agents in crowd control, that was a major factor in what was happening.

[Glenn Beck]

That's not what they do. That's not what the National Guard is even supposed to do. That's a local policing issue. But, you know, we're in this situation where if the local police and the, and the Attorney General of the state won't do their job, won't prosecute, won't arrest, won't stand in the middle and play the referee, then what do you have? I mean, you can't let lawlessness rule. And our Constitution is very clear. If, if the state government refuses to do its job, if they refuse or impede federal agents, or federal agents are in danger, then the government has the right to say this is an insurrection, yada, yada, and put it down. Trump doesn't want to do that. Trump does not want to do that. That will only inflame everything. But he has the right to do it. And they're kind of backing him into this kind of South Korea corner where he's like, what do you want me to do? You want me, I'll go take over. But that's a bad idea. And that'll only make, that'll only just throw gasoline on the fire. And I believe that's what the left wants.

[Piers Morgan]

I agree.

[Glenn Beck]

And I think, you know, you guys in Paris and in England, I mean, yeah, this is the same kind of coordinated Marxist effort. It is separate from people who honestly are looking at the situation and judging it as an adult saying, this is wrong, this is right. Yeah, but most of this is coordinated by Marxists.

[Piers Morgan]

Yeah, I don't disagree. Well, talk about the Epstein scandal. It's, it's never ending, this scandal and it's, it's bringing down a lot of scalps in the uk. Former Prince Andrew brought down Lord Mandelson. He's been brought down. A lot of people falling here. We're not seeing the same thing happening in the United States yet. What was your view of this, Glenn? Again, what pretty unprecedented scandal in terms of the reach of high profile, famous, rich, powerful people dragged into the net of one guy. And we still don't really know who got up to bad stuff with him and who was just part of the social world and is mentioned in these files. And therefore people want to find them guilty by association.

[Glenn Beck]

I found Out Saturday that I'm actually in the files.

[Piers Morgan]

Yeah, I saw that.

[Glenn Beck]

Yeah, yeah. One of his clients said, you know, I. Having to meet with some Glenn Beck fans and you know what they're like, or something like that. So it's the only good way to be in those files. The, the, the problem with this, Piers, I think this is the biggest scandal we've ever faced and it, because it go, it shows how deep, the deep state and, and powerful people, they can get away with anything, but I don't think we're ever going to have the answer. You know, both parties have had this, this file, these files. They've had them. Both the Republicans and the Democrats have had them. You don't think if Donald Trump was in them, you don't think the Democrats would have used that to stop him? They used everything else. They would have used that. Did somebody take that out? Did somebody, you know, take the other side out? I think everybody who was really powerful enough got all of that stuff out. I think the way Pam Bondi, our attorney, handled it was an absolute disgrace. It was not helpful in any way, shape or form. But I don't think we're ever going to get to the answer. But I certainly would like to see more people just in shame, you know, Bill Gates, my gosh, just shame.

[Piers Morgan]

I know.

[Glenn Beck]

Does shame even exist anymore? It does in England. I don't think it does in America anymore.

[Piers Morgan]

Yeah, that's very interesting. I agree with you. People here are being shamed into oblivion. Are not seeing that yet in the United States, and yet a lot of people like Bill Gates. It's pretty, pretty appalling what we're reading about people like him. Let us end on a, on a happier note. Melania, the movie. You went there with Tanya, your wife. The theater was packed. What did you make of the film? It's obviously been trashed by critics, but then they're not honest brokers, these critics. They're people that hate the Trumps, pretend they hate Donald Trump, so therefore they trash him.

[Glenn Beck]

I don't want to present myself as a completely honest broker either, because I like the Trumps. I know them personally.

[Piers Morgan]

Right.

[Glenn Beck]

But I thought it was, I thought it was fascinating to have that kind of access. I mean, it was, you know, two or three weeks before the inauguration. I thought it was really well done and elegant. I think it made her look to be the Jackie Onassis, which I think she is. Jackie Kennedy.

[Piers Morgan]

Yeah.

[Glenn Beck]

I think, I don't think we've ever had a classier, you know, she's up with Jack Kennedy. Kennedy, very, very smart. And it shows how smart she is. And a woman of her own thought not. And I thought it was. I thought it was great. I didn't learn much new, but I've never seen access like that before. I saw things that I've never seen before, but there's nothing new. But it's a wild look into this time from a completely different angle that you've never, Americans have never seen.

[Piers Morgan]

Yeah, yeah. I just think whatever you think of the Trumps, it's a really interesting peek behind the curtains which shows you the dual role of people who get propelled to these gigantically big public places. Like Melania Trump. Imagine, one minute she's just the wife of a real estate tycoon who does a bit of tv. The next she's the first lady of the United States, having come to the country as an immigrant.

[Glenn Beck]

Right? An immigrant from behind the iron curtain. I mean, only in America.

[Piers Morgan]

Amazing story.

[Glenn Beck]

Amazing story. And then Donald Trump, his mother went through Ellis island, his mother was an immigrant and she produced the President of the United States. I mean, it's an incredible story and incredible that those two people are the first lady and the president. While everybody is saying they hate immigrants.

[Piers Morgan]

How's that possible? There is an irony there, isn't there? Glenn? Glenn. Gotta leave it there. Love having you on uncensored. Thank you so much.

[Glenn Beck]

God bless. Thank you very much.

[Brian Shapiro]

Piers.

[Piers Morgan]

Piers Morgan Uncensored is proudly independent. The only boss around here is me. If you enjoy our show, we ask for only one simple thing. Hit subscribe on YouTube and follow Piers Morgan on Sense on Spotify and Apple podcasts. And in return, we will continue our mission to inform, irritate and entertain. And we'll do it all for free. Independent, uncensored media has never been more critical and we couldn't do it without you.

[Glenn Beck]

If you're the purchasing manager at a manufacturing plant, you know having a trusted partner makes all the difference. That's why, hands down, you count on Grainger for auto reordering. With on time restocks, your team will have the cut resistant gloves they need at the start of their shift and you can end your day knowing they've got safety well in hand. Call 1-800-GRAINGER clickgrainger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done.