‘Why Don’t You Move To Iran Or Venzuela?’ Roger Waters vs Piers Morgan

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Why Don’t You Move To Iran Or Venezuela?" Roger Waters vs Piers Morgan

Podcast: Piers Morgan Uncensored
Host: Piers Morgan
Guest: Roger Waters (Pink Floyd musician, activist)
Date: January 16, 2026

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Overview

This episode of "Piers Morgan Uncensored" features Piers Morgan in a combative and probing interview with Roger Waters, the legendary Pink Floyd musician known for his vocal political activism. The conversation covers Waters’ controversial support for leaders like Nicolas Maduro (Venezuela), his views on Iran, the war in Ukraine, Israel/Palestine, and a recent controversy involving comments on Ozzy Osbourne. The episode highlights stark differences in worldview between the host and guest, with frequent challenges and pointed exchanges.

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Main Discussion Points & Key Insights

1. Roger Waters’ Support for Nicolas Maduro and Venezuela

• Waters defends Maduro: "He's the duly democratically elected leader of a country that represents all the principles of the Bolivarian and Chavez revolutionary process. So? ... It's based upon socialist principles and the idea of equal human rights for all people."
  (02:21)
• Morgan questions Venezuela’s democracy and economic disaster: Piers cites corruption, poverty, and repression, claiming that “8 million Venezuelans have fled the country under Maduro.”
  (04:32)
• Waters blames U.S. sanctions: "Because of the U.S. sanctions, obviously... It's very difficult to live in a country that... has had shocking and appalling sanctions imposed upon it by a very, very powerful foreign empire, namely the United States of America."
  (04:41)

2. On Political Protest and Human Rights in Iran

• Morgan presses on Waters’ support of both Iranian protesters and regime:
  • “You support the protesters and you support the regime?”
    (00:25, revisited at 10:16)
• Waters on Iran’s protests and regime change:
  • "We know the Iranians do not want regime change... Why don't we let the Iranians figure out what kind of government they want?"
    (08:34)
  • "I support the right of women to dress how they want anywhere in the world."
    (09:14)
  • "The mass of the people are absolutely solidly opposed to the foreign interference."
    (13:11)
• Morgan calls out repression and international condemnation:
  • “This regime has been one of the most repressive and degrading regimes on the Iranian people... by common consent of every international organization you can think of.”
    (11:24)

3. The Language of “Terrorism” and the Israel/Gaza Conflict

• On defining terrorism:
  • “The word terrorist... doesn’t mean anything significant. It means whatever the person using it wants it to mean.”
    (15:00)
  • “To call Hamas terrorists, but not to call the Israelis terrorists is absurd, obviously.”
    (16:18)
• On October 7, 2023 (Hamas attack on Israel):
  • Waters refuses to call it terrorism, calls it “an act of resistance by an occupied people.”
    (17:31)
  • Claims: “The Israelis killed most of the people who died on October 7th.”
    (18:18)
• Morgan’s incredulous response:
  • “What a load of nonsense. Honestly, Roger, seriously.”
    (18:19)

4. Waters’ Critique of the West, U.S. & Sanctions

• Waters frequently attributes world crises to Western imperialism, sanctions, and foreign interference:
  • "You're a guy who's trying to prop up the evil Western empire that is trying to take over the whole world, using war as its main way of doing that."
    (23:44)
  • Waters reiterates belief in universal human rights but expresses deep cynicism about Western governments and media.

5. Waters’ Views on Russia, Ukraine, and Vladimir Putin

• Waters on Russia’s invasion:
  • “When they invaded, I thought it was wrong... but it was not unprovoked. It was provoked beyond all.”
    (31:37)
• Morgan asks about civilian casualties:
  • Waters: “Putin has conducted the special military operation with his gloves off. He really has tried not to hurt civilians...”
    (32:48-33:38)
  • Piers: “Vladimir Putin has tried really hard not to hurt civilians? Is it? Did you really just say that?”
    (33:46)
• On Crimea:
  • Waters: “The people of Crimea asked to join the Russian Federation, of course.”
    (35:08)

6. Controversy: Waters on Ozzy Osbourne’s Death

• Morgan confronts Waters over disparaging comments about Ozzy Osbourne:
  • Waters describes Ozzy: “We'll never know. Although he was all over the TV for hundreds of years with his idiocy and nonsense. The music, I have no idea. I couldn't give a fuck.”
    (37:47)
  • Sharon Osbourne's reaction is played, Waters remains unapologetic.
  • “No, not really... You have conversations about things and about people in. What do you think? Well, not a lot. I was honest. I said I didn’t like Black Sabbath...”
    (40:33, 41:41)
• Morgan: “So you’re big on empathy, right to the point. It’s a grieving family and then you couldn’t give a shit. Roger Waters, thank you very much.”
  (42:12)

7. Where Should Waters Live?

• Morgan presses Waters about his choice to live in the U.S. despite his criticisms:
  • “Why live somewhere if you hate it so much or hate the leader so much? Why don't you act on a point of principle, get off your backside and go and live in Iran or Venezuela...?”
    (19:46)
  • Waters: “Maybe I will... It may well be that Donald and his cabal will make that decision for me because he is pretty erratic and... he could send masked men around to shoot me in the head through my car window.”
    (29:08)
• Waters reflects nostalgically on America’s ideals but feels the people lack voice in a system he calls undemocratic.
  (27:51, 28:57)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On definitions of terrorism:
  “Anybody with an IQ above room temperature knows that’s a meaningless conversation and that the word terrorist is a blight on our language because it doesn’t mean anything significant.” — Roger Waters (15:00)

• On supporting both Iranian protesters and the regime:
  “You support the protesters and you support the regime?” — Piers Morgan (10:16)
  “Yes, of course. I would love regimes where people could protest...” — Roger Waters (10:22)

• On the October 7th attack:
  “The Israelis killed most of the people who died on October 7th.” — Roger Waters (18:18)
  “What a load of nonsense, honestly Roger, seriously.” — Piers Morgan (18:19)

• On Maduro and Western media:
  “Most of the people are absolutely solidly opposed to the foreign interference. And this, of course, includes all of the sanctions against Iran that have caused the massive inflation and the devaluation.” — Roger Waters (13:11)

• On America:
  “America is not a democracy. You can buy the presidency. Donald Trump did, and he buys it from APEC money and from oligarchical money and from donor money.” — Roger Waters (27:51)

• Waters on his activism:
  “Because I believe... I have a moral compass which I allow to guide my actions... That is why I’m here. Because I, to some extent, am a voice for the voiceless.” — Roger Waters (19:46)

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Timestamps for Critical Segments

• 00:25 & 10:16 – Morgan and Waters spar over supporting both Iranian protesters and regime
• 02:21 – Waters explains why he supports Maduro and Venezuelan socialism
• 04:41 – Waters blames U.S. sanctions for Venezuela’s collapse
• 08:34 – Waters denies support for Iranian regime change
• 15:00 – Debate on the meaning of terrorism
• 17:31 – Waters refuses to label Hamas attack as terrorism
• 18:18 – Waters claims Israelis killed most on October 7
• 19:46; 27:51; 29:08 – Morgan presses Waters on why he lives in America
• 32:48 – Waters claims Putin has “tried not to hurt civilians”
• 37:47; 40:33; 41:41 – Waters refuses to apologize to Osbourne family

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Conclusion

This episode is a robust, often heated confrontation between two starkly opposed worldviews. Piers Morgan consistently challenges Roger Waters on support for controversial regimes, definitions of terrorism, and personal accountability for public statements. Waters, in turn, staunchly defends his anti-imperialist activism and his skepticism of Western narratives, while deflecting on several controversies and maintaining his commitment to what he calls universal human rights. The episode is punctuated with sharp rhetorical exchanges, memorable one-liners, and energetic disagreement—characteristic of the “Uncensored” format.

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For listeners interested in politics, activism, and thorny international issues, this episode offers plenty of debate, strong opinions, and confrontation—true to the podcast’s branding.

Transcript

[A]

Roger. Welcome back to Uncensored Maduro. There aren't many people out there flying the flag with this despot.

[B]

It's an invasion. The kidnapping of Nicolas Maduro. They made up the daft story about him being a drug dealer, which is absolute arrant nonsense. I believe in human rights for all my brothers and sisters.

[A]

Do you support the protesters in Iran at the moment?

[B]

Here we go.

[A]

You support the protesters and you support the regime?

[B]

Yes, of course. Peers, grow up. The Iranians do not want regime change. You might think Donald Trump's a jolly good chap. He was always a real scumbag.

[A]

You rail a lot about America, but you live in America. Why don't you act on a point of principle? I'm going to live in Iran or Venezuela.

[B]

Here, Stalin, maybe I will. It may well be that Donald and his cabal will make that decision for me.

[A]

You don't regret the things you said about Ozzy Osbourne and the hurt that caused his family?

[B]

Oh, shit.

[A]

If you've listened to, watched or read anything much about Venezuela in the past few weeks, and the chances are that you have, you will be aware of some common themes. Venezuela has more oil than any other country in the world, but 80% of its people live in poverty. It's run by a proudly leftist regime, but only a tiny cabal of cronies get rich, while the working class is shattered by hyperinflation, empty shops and medicine shortages. It's a democracy, at least in name. But the man who won the last election with 68% of the vote is facing jail and living in exile in Spain. The popular socialist patriotism of Hugo Chavez, whether you personally liked it or not, has been wrecked by the corruption and incompetence of the man he trusted to replace him, Nicolas Maduro. The reason these are common themes is because they're borne out by facts. Not least the fact the 8 million Venezuelans have fled the country as refugees. But not everybody agrees with these facts. Maduro still has some supporters, and one of his most prominent supporters is the legendary Pink Floyd musician Roger Waters, who joins me on Uncensored. Roger, welcome back to Uncensored.

[B]

Thank you, Piers.

[A]

Nicolas Maduro. There aren't many people out there flying the flag for this despot. Why do you support him?

[B]

There are many people out here flying the flag of Nicolas Maduro. I support him because he's the duly democratically elected leader of a country that represents all the principles of the Bolivarian and Chavez revolutionary process. So? So he represents the people of Venezuela who live a completely different you know, completely different way of life than in the United States where I live or in England where you live. But it is one that I admire because it's based upon socialist principles and the idea of equal human rights for all people. I don't want to make a long speech, but that's why on the point.

[A]

About him being a democratically elected. Yeah, well, on the point about the democratically elected part of the equation, as you know, I think 60% of the countries around the world believe that the last election was rigged, that he banned his main opponent from even running, that he claimed victory when he hadn't won, that he stayed in office when he shouldn't have done. That's the antithesis of democracy is the kind of thing you see in Russia.

[B]

Now you're talking about if you're right about this, and I'm not, I'm not. I don't know whether you are right about the 60% or not, but that would be 60% of the leaders of the governments of countries around the world. Not the countries, if the countries are the people who live in those countries. It's a bit like other things that we're going to get on to later, probably. Probably like Gaza, most of the people all over the world, you know, despise the genocide that's going on in Palestine now. So we can go to that later if you want. But what I'm saying is that what we tend to see is the propaganda put out by the governments of the other countries in the world. So here is what the American government and the English government and the French government and the EU and the blah, blah, blah have to say about the. The Bolivarian revolution, okay, not necessarily the.

[A]

People, if it's been so. But Roger, if it's been so great in Venezuela, why have 8 million Venezuelans left the country under Maduro?

[B]

Because of the U. S. Sanctions, obviously. Because since 2001, don't forget you, you, you. There was a coup organized by the United States, probably by Elliot Abrams, if I remember, to depose Hugo Chavez when he was first elected as the president of Venezuela back in 1990. So they tried to depose him in a coup d' etat in 2002, which didn't work because the people of Venezuela said, are you joking? Which is exactly what they're saying now. They said it in 2019, where the American government and the rest of the west tried to impose Guido on them in. In a coup. And they're saying it again now. And the reason that people are leaving is because it's Very difficult to live in a country that. Which has had shocking and appalling sanctions imposed upon it by a very, very powerful foreign empire, namely the United States of America.

[A]

But it's also true.

[B]

That's only my theory.

[A]

Well, sure, but it's also true that Madero's presidency has been marred not just by economic crisis, but by political repression, widespread accusations of corruption and drug trafficking. As I said, 8 million people left. But while he was in power, Maduro's regime was accused of widespread crimes against humanity by the United nations, including extrajudicial killings and torture techniques such as electric shock, sexual violence and asphyxiation as part of a plan they said the UN orchestrated at the highest levels of the government to repress dissent. Why would you align yourself to a regime like that?

[B]

Piers, I've talked to you before. We did a show once, I think in London a couple of years ago. Things. So I understand where you're coming from because I understand that you believe the mainstream media in the West.

[A]

So that's the United Nations.

[B]

Excuse me, I haven't finished. No, you could have read any and all of this in the. In the pages of the New York.

[A]

But it was the United Nations.

[B]

Well, you talked. Excuse me, you talked about drug trafficking. Drug trafficking. There is no mention of Venezuela in any of the reports from the dea, even in the United States of America, to link Venezuela or Maduro to any drug trafficking. So this is a news story that's been cooked up very, very recently in order to support the latest attacks upon that country. Anyway, you know, to go into the detail is you and me is nonsense. We have different opinions about these things and we don't need to. Need really to air those different opinions. My position is this. I believe in human rights for all my brothers and sisters. I believe for human rights for my brothers and sisters, equal under international law in Venezuela and the United States of America. And England, where I come from, well, we don't have them anymore because England is now a fascist state. Witness the Criminalizing of Palestine act and so on. I believe in equal human rights. But Palestinians, Israelis, the people of Iran, which is now a big question mark. It looks as if. I don't know what. It looks as if. I don't want to start guessing about the future of Iran. But that's my platform, the universal right.

[A]

But here's what I'm curious, Paris. I understand, but I'm curious about your platform in this sense. Is that my understanding is that for all your support of someone like Maduro and his regime, you Have a very different view of the Iranian regime. You think they're a bad thing?

[B]

No, of course not. It's none of my business. I'm not an Iranian. Why don't we let the Iranians figure out what kind of government they want? We absolutely know one thing. We know they don't want the Shah's son back. He's the least popular. Sorry, I've already said we know they do not want. Excuse me. We know the Iranians do not want regime change. We've seen that. What's happened over the last week. I believe in a lot of Iran, and there have been a lot of deaths, and. But I'm doing my research. It takes a while. You have to get into it. You have to go to.

[A]

You have supported the protest.

[B]

What do you mean? Oh, you mean when. Oh, you mean the wearing of the hijab thing? I do support. I support the right of women to dress how they want anywhere in the world.

[A]

I do.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I do not agree with. Do you support the protesters in Iran at the moment?

[B]

Well, if it was the shopkeepers who went, oh, my God, inflation's going through the roof, let's do something about it. Of course I do. Why shouldn't they say. And so did the government. The government sent the police out to protect those grocers, those business owners, those ordinary working people. People in Iran. Okay, but. And they were attacked by gangs of armed thugs who murdered. We believe. We don't know. The truth. Isn't all out. But armed thugs, probably organized by MI6 and the CIA. Right.

[A]

So, sorry, just to be clear.

[B]

There's nothing to.

[A]

So, just to be clear, you support the protesters and you support the regime.

[B]

Yes, of course. I would love regimes where people could protest, like the good woman who was just murdered in Minneapolis, and the government could govern for the benefit of the people. I live in the United States, where the government does not govern for the benefit of the people. It governs for the benefit of the oligarchs and the very rich. And everyone knows it.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Okay, So I can't support the current. Sorry, go on.

[A]

Well, my view of the Iranian regime, and tell me where you disagree with this characterization, is that for 47 years since they toppled the Shah, and I'm not saying by any means the Shah regime was perfect, but certainly by comparison to what we see today, Iranians had a much better quality of life under the Shah than they do under this regime. And that this regime has been one of the most repressive and degrading regimes on the Iranian people. Of any regime in the world, and that is by common consent of every. Every international organization you can think of.

[B]

Piers, Darling, darling, please. I disagree. But why. Why wouldn't we ask Iranians to answer that question? I have to tell you why. Because they've answered the question. Excuse me. I'm not talking about the mek. I'm not talking about Rudy Giuliani in the United States.

[A]

I talked to Iranian people.

[B]

Iranians who actually, there are 80 million of them. The Iranian people are absolutely united to defend Iran against the influence of the empire of the United States of America.

[A]

So why are. Why are so many Iranian people taking to the streets to protest against their own regime?

[B]

Here we go again.

[A]

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[B]

They're not. They were protesting against inflation and against the devaluation of the rye or whatever they. Whatever the currency is called. That's what they were. And they stopped protesting the minute anybody started talking about regime change.

[A]

They haven't stopped protesting or reimpo.

[B]

Excuse me. Well, they haven't stopped protesting the Shah's family.

[A]

Where are you getting this from?

[B]

Well, I. I'm not there. I'm not there, so.

[A]

No, you're not there. Where are you getting your information?

[B]

No, no, but I have. I have lots of friends who are there because I have. I'm quite. I'm. I'm philosophically quite close to the people of Iran. All right? And the mass of the people. This is what you keep not understanding is the mass of the people are absolutely solidly opposed to the foreign interference. And this, of course, includes all of the sanctions against Iran that have caused the massive inflation and the devaluation.

[A]

Why do you think Iran has been sanctioned?

[B]

Because it's the last country on the list that Paul Wolfowitz told Wesley Clark about back whenever it was in the Pentagon of the countries that the United States wanted to destroy so that they can take over the world. And it's the last one standing. They've destroyed the other six. There were seven on the list.

[A]

Yeah. In fact, the reason. The reason Iran. The reason Iran's been sanctioned. But hang on, Roger. The reason Iran's been sanctioned is because it is unarguable that it has been a major sponsor of terror organizations all through the Middle east, from the Houthis. The Houthis to Hezbollah to Hamas. But it's true.

[B]

It's not a Palestine action. It's nonsense anyway. One man's terrorism is another man's freedom.

[A]

Well, let me ask you that. So do you think. Let me ask you first, then, because it's important to what I just said. Of course, that only applies if you view Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Houthis as terror groups. Do you?

[B]

Here we go. Peers, grow up. This is an absurd conversation. It's like you. What you're trying to do is drag this conversation into one about the meaning of the word terrorist and who is and who isn't. Well, anybody with an IQ above room temperature knows that that's a meaningless conversation and that the word terrorist is a blight on our language because it doesn't mean anything significant. It means whatever the person using it wants it to mean. You know? So if you drop bombs on people and murder hundreds of thousands of people and you're on the right side of whoever's opinion it is, you are not a terrorist. But if you kill a few people somewhere else, you are. So it's just a question of where you stand in. In the political and the global political.

[A]

Sure. So just to be clear, where you stay.

[B]

The word. That's why the word should either be defined properly as to what it. For instance, I believe tourists mean to the. To try to accomplish political ends by acts of violence that involve murder. Am I right? Is that it?

[A]

Yeah, pretty much, yeah.

[B]

I mean, yeah. Okay. Well, then, anybody you know. So to call Hamas terrorists, but not to call the Israelis terrorists is absurd, obviously. I mean, our.

[A]

Let me ask you. Let me ask you. All right, Let me ask you.

[B]

Excuse me.

[A]

At some stage, I have to ask you a question. So on October 7, 2023, did Hamas commit an act of terrorism?

[B]

Oh, God, not again. Not again.

[A]

Well, did they unarm.

[B]

I'm not gonna. Do you know what's good about me having this conversation with you now, in hindsight, because we had this conversation when we spoke last and I said the word Zacher to you, and you went, what? Or did you find out who Zacher are as I asked you to, when we had a conversation before? Did you?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Who are they?

[A]

Roger, with respect.

[B]

And what did they say?

[A]

I just asked you whether.

[B]

Excuse me. No, well, you. This is not.

[A]

If you want to interview me. If you want to interview me, we'll do that for a show of Your own. You're on my show. I'm asking you questions. I'm simply curious whether you believe what hamas did on October 7th was an act of terrorism.

[B]

You know, well, October 7th is a very complex. On some level, it's very simple. That is, it was an act of resistance by an occupied people. The armed wings, okay? The armed wing of an occupied people. That's what it was.

[A]

So it wasn't terrorism, it was an act of resistance.

[B]

Well, I'm not going to get involved in your terrorism story. What? I am. I mean, who murdered most of the people? The Israelis? Have you seen the piles of bombed out cars destroyed by hellfire missiles? Thousands and thousands of them.

[A]

You think the Israelis killed most of the people who died on October 7th?

[B]

Yes, I do. Yes.

[A]

What a load of nonsense. Honestly, Roger, seriously.

[B]

Well, isn't that interesting that you should say that? Look at the evidence, Piers. You've never even heard of Sacker.

[A]

Where do you get your evidence?

[B]

Lies about rape.

[A]

Where do you get your evidence from? Really curious reading.

[B]

We had this. Piers. We had this conversation. We had this conversation.

[A]

I know, but I'm looking at your worldview. Roger. Roger, look, you don't need to do this. You're a very. You're a very wealthy, successful, talented musician, made a fortune as a member of Pink Floyd. You don't need to say all these things. I'm just having you on to try and get to understand where this comes from. You think Nicolas Maduro, that most people think was a disgusting tyrant of Venezuela, is a good guy. You can't seem to make your mind up whether the regime in Iran is a good or bad thing. But you think the only reason people are protesting is because of the economy, which is nonsense. You think that what hamas did on October 7 was an act of resistance and won't call them terrorists and so on. So you're an outlier, as you know, with how conventional thinking is on these things, you know that you're perfectly entitled to be. But when you say these things, you know, I look at you, for example, you rail a lot about America and about Donald Trump, but you live in America. I mean, there's an inconsistency there. Why live somewhere if you hate it so much or hate the leader so much? Why don't you act on a point of principle, get off your backside and go and live in Iran or Venezuela, Live under one of these regimes that you think aren't too bad.

[B]

Piers, Piers, do stop. Do stop. Maybe I will. But to answer your question about me being successful in Rock and roll and blah. Yes, I am very. And blah, blah, blah. And all of that, all. Why do I do all of this? Because I believe. I hope you're listening. I believe in right and wrong. I have a moral compass. Excuse me? Let me finish. I have a moral compass which I allow to guide my actions. And also I read a lot. And I don't just read the New York Times or the. Or the Sunday Telegraph. I read, I get information. And I have a lot of friends. I have a network of people all over the world who also, like me, believe in equal human rights for all their brothers and sisters all over the world, irrespective of their religion or their race or their nationality or ethnicity or anything. And that is a fundamental thing that drives the me in what I do. That's why I'm talking to you now today. Much as I adore you, obviously I'm still. That is why I'm here. Because I, to some extent, am a voice for the voiceless. And I get told this by the voiceless millions of times every year in responses to the activities that I.

[A]

But I wouldn't call Nicholas Maduro. I wouldn't call support. Nicolas Maduro is not the voiceless. And nor are Hamas and nor are the Iranian regime. So although it suits you to say I only stand up for the voiceless, actually, it sounds to me like you like to stand up for terror groups and call them resistance. You like to stand up for dictators and say they're just massively misunderstood guys. You like to stand up for one of the world's worst regimes in Iran, and pretend that. That the only reason people there are protesting is because of the economy, and that's because of sanctions put on it by other countries, wrongly, because they don't prop up any terror groups. So when I look at your worldview, I don't see a guy, with all due respect, Roger, who's standing up for the voiceless and powerless. I see somebody trying to prop up terrorists and powerful dictatorships and regimes. Today's show is sponsored by Oxford Natural, makers of the Optimum Day and Optimum Night, all natural supplements. Thousands of Brits and Americans are already taking them with incredible results. Optimum Day boosts your energy and supports weight loss throughout the day. Optimum Night helps you relax and get deep, refreshing sleep. They have countless success stories, including, from some very familiar faces, England Ledger, Michael owen, who lost £40. AFTV's Robbie, who lost more than £100. To watch their full stories and many more, scan the QR code on your screen or. Or visit oxfordnatural.com peers and here's the best part. Use the code peers and get 70% off your first order. Get 70% off with the code. Piers. New year is all about starting afresh and today's sponsor will help you to do exactly that. Mando whole body deodorant is created by doctors and clinically proven to block odor for up to 72 hours. Powered by mandelic acid, it's free of all the bad stuff like baking soda, paraben and aluminium. Some men mask their bo with sense. Mando men get the job done right. Don't mask it, man. Do it. You'll find it in many top retailers. Or you can head to shopmando.com where for a limited time, new customers get 20% off site wide with our exclusive code. Use the code piers P I E r [e-mail] for 20% off site wide plus free shipping. Shopman.com please support our show and tell them that we sent you. Mando's got you covered.

[B]

That's because you're a guy who's trying to prop up the evil western empire that is trying to take over the whole world, using war as its main way of doing that. That is why the west is insisting on remaining at a state of perpetual war with anybody of whom it disapproves in the country. This includes Iran and Venezuela, there are only two. And the Palestinians, and so on and so forth. So you believe in that as being a. As being a reasonable system for the world to proceed?

[A]

No, I don't.

[B]

Excuse me?

[A]

I don't.

[B]

Well, why don't you ever say anything on your program to stop it?

[A]

I literally live. Excuse me, Roger, with respect, you're wrong. In 2003, as editor of a daily mirror, I'd led a relentless campaign against the Iraq war, for example. So you're wrong in your characterization that all I like is war. I don't. Complete opposite.

[B]

Okay, so you've given me one example.

[A]

Bravo.

[B]

Good for you, Piers. Thank you. I'm glad you did. That was the correct thing to do. And in hindsight, you are now in a huge majority of people who. Because they know the lie that was told about weapons of mass destruction back in March of 2003 when the United States invaded Iraq and destroyed that country, killing over a million Iraqis, by the way.

[A]

I agree.

[B]

And leaving it devastated.

[A]

I agree. Okay.

[B]

Which is to. Well, they are trying to do the same thing now by trying to encourage a war with Iran and maybe even they will Try and start a war with Iran. They've also invaded the sovereign country of Venezuela. It's an invasion. The kidnapping of Nicolas Maduro. They made up the daft story about him being a drug dealer, which is absolute arrant nonsense, as everybody knows. And then they invaded the country and whisked him off to New. What's going to happen next? Nobody knows. Trump doesn't know. He spends his time staring out of the French windows at what might be a ball.

[A]

So what do you. What do you think of Donald Trump? What do you think of Donald Trump?

[B]

He's demented. He's demented. He's obviously very evil, but now he's demented as well as being very evil. He was always a real scumbag. Everything he's ever done is awful in every way. So we can, you know, you can disagree. You might think Donald Trump's, you know, a jolly good chap. Mag her, Make America, all that crap. None of which he believes. All he believes is in lining his pockets and the pockets of Jared Kushner and, you know, and maybe some of his other children and his friends, Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg and all the rest of the oligarchs who are all in the same country.

[A]

But again, Roger, if you feel this way, why do you live in America? I don't understand why you live there.

[B]

I think I moved out of England at least partially when I did, which was at the turn of the millennium, because I couldn't stand the, funnily enough, the political atmosphere there, because it's more hidden. It's a little more. It's a bit more under the surface. There are wonderful people there. I see that my friend Naomi Winborn Adrisi is starting. I think she's starting a new party. She's certainly standing for something because I got an email from her last night. So the fact that people like her and Jeremy Corbyn are still involved in politics, maybe I would try and move back. But don't forget.

[A]

No, it wasn't my question. My question was, why do you want to live in America? Given how much you hate Donald Trump, you think he's evil, he's demented, he's waging all these wars, as you put it. Why wouldn't you just leave the country? I don't get it.

[B]

Okay, can I answer? I don't think the American people are evil. I think, as my mother did as well. I'll never forget, she said to me, you know, darling, the American people are a people good and true. As I've written in a poem, I think, good neighbors, to rebuild the barn. There's that there is a feeling amongst the idea of some of those settler colonialists who, who were the, you know, let's not talk about the genocide of the Native Americans because that's central to all of this conversation. But anyway, they, they would help you rebuild the barn. And those people still exist, but they're not, they have no voice. America is not a democracy. You can buy the presidency. Donald Trump did, and he buys it from APEC money and from oligarchical money and from donor money. The fact that you're allowed to pour millions and millions into politics makes it impossible for it to be democratic, not to mention the electoral.

[A]

So you live in an undemocratic country run by, run by an evil, demented person. Again, I simply ask you, why are you still there?

[B]

Well, I've looked at alternatives. I promise you Portugal is a possibility. I very much like some of the islands in the Caribbean and, and the, you know, and, and the governments that they have as well. I do follow what people think. So it may be that my tent, that my residency in the United States may not last for the rest of my life. It may well be that Donald and his cabal will make that decision for me because he is pretty erratic and he's got ice. He could send masked men round to shoot me in the head through my car window like he does to people who disagree with him. So it's. I agree with you, Piers. We live in a really dangerous, totally effed up world. I couldn't agree with you more. And to find somewhere good to live is difficult, you know, but we still have to clamber around the eyes that were given us by Karl Marx and others in the late 19th and the early or in the middle 19th century and try and find ways forward in the future. That is not what we've got now because what we've got now is destroying the planet that we live on.

[A]

Okay, did you give Trump, do you give Trump any credit, do you give Trump any credit for getting to a cease fire in, in Gaza?

[B]

No, of course not. I don't give him any credit for anything. There's no ceasefire. Ceasefire in Gaza. There's no ceasefire. They're murdering them as fast as they can go. There was never any ceasefire. November 17th was a huge disaster in the Security Council and mainly because I've said this to my Russian friends, because neither Russia nor China vetoed it. So we now have to get our heads around the idea that, oh, maybe they're not anti imperialist. And so Mearsheimer may be right in some of his contentions that we live in a realistic world and that everybody's out for themselves and they don't really care about people, particularly people in other countries or people who are.

[A]

Do you think. Do you think Russia. Do you think Russia.

[B]

And they may be right.

[A]

Has Russia been justified in its war in Ukraine?

[B]

That's a very difficult question. When they invaded, I thought it was wrong. Obviously, as we've said before, and as I said in, in various dissertations to the Security Council, in the United nations, no less, I think I said that I deplore the invasion of Ukraine, but it was not unprovoked. It was provoked beyond all.

[A]

And what do you feel now? What do you feel tonight?

[B]

I feel that they should have made peace in. In February 2022 when it was offered to them Ukrainians. I mean, and Boris Johnson went in and said, no, you can't. We don't want peace. I mean, and if you think I'm wrong, just read the history and see what actually happened. And read the Minsk Accords and see. Because there was a civil war going on in Ukraine when Russia started what they call their special military operation. Everybody knows all this, who knows anything about it, but it's suppressed by the West.

[A]

So what is your view of Vladimir Putin?

[B]

We're all suppressed.

[A]

Has Vladimir Putin been mischaracterized, do you think?

[B]

You know, what's interesting is how careful Putin's been all the way through. And also anybody who studied the war in Ukraine would agree with this. And a lot of people, a lot of people watching this and commenting on it, say, you know, if the west manages to get rid of Putin, they should be careful what they wish for, because it's very likely that the much harder line faction in Russian political society, one of them might take over. And then you will see something completely different because Putin has conducted the special military operation with his gloves off. He really has tried not to hurt civilians and so on and so forth.

[A]

What?

[B]

Who knows if they.

[A]

If they're talking about.

[B]

Because proof in it. See, you know nothing, Pierce.

[A]

Vladimir Putin has tried really hard not to hurt civilians. Is it? Did you really just say that? I thought you hated war. I thought you hated war, Roger. Vladimir Putin illegally invaded, invaded a sovereign democratic country and started bombing the out of it.

[B]

Why?

[A]

Why would you on any level try and excuse or defend it?

[B]

See, why didn't they make peace in 2022, three weeks after the war started?

[A]

Why did the war start?

[B]

Why didn't you know the answer to that? Or maybe you still haven't read anything. I've no idea. If you haven't read the history, then you haven't read the history, so you may never know.

[A]

Right. I've read a lot of history.

[B]

We all know it wasn't because. We all know it wasn't because Putin wants to invade Europe and take over the whole of Western Europe. He wants to invade Romania and Poland and France and England and Germany and extend Russia to the. Which is the story that they've been trying to sell you in the mainstream. That's absolute arrant nonsense.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, he only took. He only took Crimea, then he tried to take Georgia, then he's taken the southeast of Ukraine. And it's not like he's got a pattern of seizing stuff.

[B]

Crimea asked. The people of Crimea asked to join the Russian Federation, of course. And you believe 88% of them, of.

[A]

Course, in a referendum run. In a referendum run by the Russians, which you apparently think was incredible. Referendum.

[B]

All right, Piers, let me end with this. I'm glad you had me on. Let me tell you why. I'm glad you had me on. Let me tell you why. I'm. Okay, if I may.

[A]

You may.

[B]

And I do thank you for it.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I do thank you for it. Because I believe in the universal declaration of Human rights, because I have empathy for all my brothers and sisters in Venezuela and in Palestine and in Israel and in Iran and blah, blah, blah, all over the world. I'm very grateful to you for allowing my sensible voice to be heard somewhere. And I count you as part of the mainstream media. In the mainstream media, just as I was very glad years and years ago when Tucker Karlsman had me on Fox News because he knew I supported the release of Julian Assange, which I did. And he did an interview with me and we talked about that.

[A]

And.

[B]

And eventually Julian Assange was released. And I'm glad to have been part of that movement. And I was solely for year after year after year, all the time he was banged up in Belmarsh and whatever, because Julian Assange is a great journalist and a great teller of the truth and believes like I do in universal human rights. So thank you for allowing me be part of him and part of all those of us, and we are millions strong who believe in equal human rights for all our brothers and sisters from the river to the sea, from all rivers to all seas.

[A]

Okay? And you've made it. You've referenced the word empathy a few times. And I do want to end with something which was quite personal to me because it involved a friend of mine, which was that after Ozzy Osbourne, your fellow rock star, died. Yeah, yeah. Well, after he died, you sold. You told the Independent. Ozzy Osbourne who just died, bless him, in his. Whatever that state he was in his whole life, we'll never know. Although he was all over the TV for hundreds of years with his idiocy and nonsense. The music, I have no idea. I couldn't give a fuck. I don't care about Black Sabbath. I never did have no interest in biting the heads of chickens wherever they do. I couldn't care less, you know? Do you think that was empathetic?

[B]

Listen, A. I didn't speak to the Independent. I assume you're talking about the Independent newspaper in the United Kingdom. Are you? What are you talking about?

[A]

This was talking with the Independent, Inc. That's who you were talking to.

[B]

Ah, okay. Well, when you say the Independent on your. On television, when you're talking to Karen, the widow of Sadosi Osborne, you say. It sounds as if I was talking to news. But, Sharon, not the comments that you. Sharon, that's what I said, wasn't it? Sorry, I apologize. Sharon. Apologize. Getting your name wrong. Yeah. Independent Inc. Is a podcast that a guy called Mr. Fish. That's his. His professional name, and he's a. He's an illustrator and cartoonist. He's. He does. He does all the drawings.

[A]

But this is all irrelevant. I don't understand why.

[B]

Excuse me.

[A]

When Ozzy Osbourne has just died, why would you trash him like that if you're Mr. Empathy?

[B]

I haven't finished. Excuse me, Ma. Finish. So those comments, I'm not denying that I said them. Came in the middle of a long interview called the Independent, Inc.

[A]

It makes no difference where you said that.

[B]

Hang on. In the middle of an hour and a half long interview.

[A]

So what?

[B]

And I was. And we were smil. Smiling at. Well, I mean, do I have to like every rock group there ever was.

[A]

Just to trash him in such a personal way so soon after he died? I want to play you a clip from when Sharon came on my show because it really upset.

[B]

Oh, I've seen it.

[A]

Well, let me play it again. Remind our viewers. Let's take a look.

[B]

No, I don't want to see it. I'm not interested. I'm not in.

[A]

Because he's really insignificant. But I just thought with anybody that passes, that has a family, you don't do that. That's true, isn't it? If you're really Empathetic. You don't do that to someone, to a family when they've lost someone they love like that.

[B]

I, obviously, I had no idea that Sharon Osborne would be watching a podcast by a very well known.

[A]

Would you like to apologize then for the hurt you've covered in conversation?

[B]

Yeah, of course I will. If I. If I. Cause. Not that I have any time for Sharon Osborne. She's a raging Zionist and in consequence, she's like. She's not in my very. And she's all accused me of all kinds of things. She's constantly accused because she's part of the Israeli lobby.

[A]

Would you like to apologize to the Osbourne family for the way you trashed Ozzy Osbourne in that?

[B]

Not really. Look. No, not really. To Jack. She did want to know Jack. Well, Jack, you know, Jack Crossbow. If. If he wants to have a chat, I'll have a chat. Lost his dad and I won't be nasty to him. Well, you know, yeah, I'm sorry you lost your dad, Jack, but. But this is like. You have conversations about things and about people in. What do you think? Well, not a lot. I was honest. I said I didn't like Black Sabbath, but that's not. I think I've listened to some of it since and the music is perfectly kind of. Except it was all a kind of histrionics of. I don't like people who bite the heads off bats. I just don't. I think it's disgusting. And I've said that again. Now I know he's dead and he can't come back and go, yeah, I'm sorry I bit the heads off bats. If he ever did. Who knows whether he did or not? And I don't want to talk about.

[A]

So you don't regret the things you said about Ozzy Osborne and the hurt that caused his family?

[B]

Piers, I regret nothing in life except that I haven't been more successful in getting people to understand how important it is that we as a human race recognize and empathize with all our brothers and sisters all over the world and make that they have equal human rights, one with another under international law. The Osbourne family, you know, no, I'm not. I'm not that interested in.

[A]

That's fine. So you're big on empathy, right to the point. It's a grieving family and then you couldn't give a shit. Roger Waters, thank you very much.

[B]

Depend. Well done.

[A]

Piers Morgan. I sense that he's proudly independent. The only boss around here is me. If you enjoy our show, we ask for only one simple thing. Hit subscribe on YouTube and follow Piers Morgan uncensored on Spotify and Apple podcasts. And in return, we will continue our mission to inform, irritate, and entertain. And we'll do it all for free. Independent, uncensored media has never been more critical, and we couldn't do it without you.