“You Bombed SIX Countries!” Israel Continues Strikes in Lebanon | Middle East Conflict With Mehdi Hasan & Doron Spielman

Summary

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Piers Morgan Uncensored: “You Bombed SIX Countries!” Israel Continues Strikes in Lebanon | Middle East Conflict With Mehdi Hasan & Doron Spielman

Date: April 14, 2026
Host: Piers Morgan
Guests: Mehdi Hasan (Zateo News), Doron Spielman (IDF Spokesman, author), Major General James "Spider" Marks, Jim Hansen

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Episode Overview

This heated episode of Piers Morgan Uncensored centers on the ongoing Israeli military actions in Lebanon and the wider Middle East conflict, with a fierce debate between Mehdi Hasan and Doron Spielman. The discussion explores Israel’s military conduct, nuclear ambiguity, global perceptions, and the dilemma posed by Iran's nuclear ambitions, featuring in-depth arguments about international law, the legitimacy of military actions, and the ever-shifting goalposts of the current Middle East war.

After the debate, military analysts Major General James Marks and Jim Hansen examine whether Israel and the U.S. are winning their war against Iran, the significance of disrupting Iran's nuclear program, and predictions for the conflict's next phase.

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Key Discussion Points & Segments

1. Setting the Table: Israel’s Strikes and Global Backlash

[00:53] – [03:24]

• Piers introduces the immediate context: Israel’s renewed blitz in Lebanon despite a ceasefire, mounting civilian death tolls (over 2,000 in Lebanon), and growing global condemnation.
• Raises the question: “Is Israel now the barrier to ending the war?”
• Notes shifting Western public opinion—including Spain and Turkey branding Netanyahu a war criminal, and unease in the U.S.

2. Debate: Israel vs. Iran—Who is the Threat?

[00:00] – [16:11]

Israel’s Justification for Preemptive War

Doron Spielman argues:

• The war is “as consequential as stopping Nazi Germany in 1936.”
• U.S. presidents have failed to act on Iran’s nuclear ambitions for 40 years, while “Iran cannot be a nuclear regime.”
• Praises Trump and Netanyahu for “consistency”—taking action before Iran’s program “lands on your soil.”

“If you don't preemptively stop Iran ... the alternative is you're only going to stop it when that bomb lands on your soil.” (Spielman, [03:58])

Mehdi Hasan Challenges the Narrative

• Hasan flips Spielman’s language (“face of terror,” “monsters in charge”) back on Israel.
• Notes Israel is the only Middle Eastern state with nuclear weapons, has not signed the NPT, and repeatedly ignores binding UN resolutions.
• Lists Israeli military actions (“Israel attacked six countries last year”), arguing Israel—not Iran—is the region’s “rogue nuclear state.”

“Which country in the Middle East has nuclear weapons? It’s not Iran, it’s Israel ... Six countries in the Middle East attacked last year. It wasn’t Iran. It was Israel.” (Hasan, [05:47])

Piers Morgan Interjects: It's Not Just Liberals Objecting

• Points out that criticism of the war is bipartisan, cutting across U.S. conservatives and liberal voices.

“You’ve got a massive cross-section ... of conservative Trump supporters who have condemned this war and want nothing to do with it.” (Morgan, [07:16])

3. Nuclear Hypocrisy: Israel’s Nuclear Ambiguity

[11:34] – [17:32]

• Hasan presses Spielman: Why is Israel exempt from international nuclear scrutiny while demanding it of Iran? Cites UN Security Council Resolution 487 as “binding.”
• Spielman claims no binding UN resolutions against Israel; insists Israel hasn’t used nukes.
• Piers Morgan repeatedly asks Spielman to admit Israel’s nuclear arsenal—Spielman deflects, citing Israel’s right to security after Holocaust and existential wars.

“According to the Non-Proliferation Treaty, which Israel has not signed and is therefore not bound by ... if [Israel] maintains a nuclear arsenal, it has not used it.” (Spielman, [15:04]) “UN Security Council Resolution 487 ... is binding under international law ... Israel has been in violation for 45 years.” (Hasan, [12:08])

Heated Exchanges

• Hasan to Spielman: “You can't just lie on here and say you were attacked [in 1967]. You were not. You launched the 67 war. That’s a fact.” ([18:01])
• “It would be funny if it wasn’t so tragic and you hadn’t killed so many Iranian kids as part of your supposed disarmament program.” (Hasan, [19:57])

4. Have the War’s Goals Shifted?

[22:09] – [25:55]

• Piers presses Spielman: If the war’s goal was to seize Iran’s enriched uranium, but if that’s not achieved, is the war a failure?
• Spielman: Admits the “number one goal” is unfulfilled if uranium stays in Iran, but claims “destroying Iran’s nuclear production capabilities” is a major gain.
• Morgan challenges this: After previous Israeli campaigns, U.S./Israel claimed nuclear capabilities were wiped out, “yet within eight months, a massive war was launched again. So there is a credibility issue.”

“If the enriched uranium remains in Iran, this war’s a failure.” (Morgan, [24:04])

5. The Cycle of Violence: Lebanon, Hezbollah, and Civilian Deaths

[30:32] – [34:00]

• Intense exchanges over Israeli strikes in Lebanon:
  • Hasan accuses Israel of massacring “300 people in a single 10 minute span last week,” including children ([31:41]).
  • Spielman claims these were “300 terrorists” and defends Israeli military actions as responses to Hezbollah attacks.
• Discussion of 1 million Lebanese displaced ([31:58]) and whether Israeli displacement policies are justifiable.
• Arguments over who started hostilities ("You violated the ceasefire with Hezbollah 15,000 times" – Hasan, [32:16]).

6. The Nuclear Question—Intent vs. Capability

[26:06] – [29:44]

• Hasan: It's about intent—by attacking Iran repeatedly, “you've incentivized them to get nukes.” Argues Iran repeatedly supported WMD-free zones, and the U.S. and Israel have opposed them.
• Spielman: Counters that Iran is the world's greatest terror regime, not comparable to democratic Israel.
• Both sides accuse the other of bad faith and distortions.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Piers Morgan [07:16]:
  "There's a massive cross section of very influential people, many of whom are conservative Trump supporters ... who have condemned this war and want nothing to do with it. So I don't think you can just bat it away as, oh, it's just a bunch of, you know, liberals throwing their toys out of the pram. It's not.”

• Mehdi Hasan [05:47]:
  “Which country in the Middle East has nuclear weapons? It's not Iran, It's Israel. Which country in the Middle East has not signed the NPT ... attacked six countries last year? It wasn't Iran. It was Israel.”

• Doron Spielman [16:23]:
  “I would assume ... it's highly likely ... that Israel has a nuclear program. Israel never signed the NPT ... because Israel maintains its individual right to defend itself.”

• Mehdi Hasan [17:37]:
  “You inflate the numbers of people killed in Iran, but never recognize the hundred thousand people you killed in Gaza ... you deny those ... but you do have nukes.”

• Hasan vs. Spielman [30:32]:
  Hasan: “You're morally worse than Iran. You bombed six countries.”
  Spielman: “Israel does not bomb best countries, target mar...”

• On Displacement
  Piers: "A million people have been displaced from their homes." ([31:59])
  Hasan: “You told them they can't come back. Don't gaslight us. You've told them, they're not going to let you come back.” ([32:13])

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Military Analysis: Are Israel & the U.S. “Winning” in Iran?

[34:00] – [46:10]

Battlefield Success vs. Strategic Goal

• Major General Marks: U.S./Israel have “crushed” Iranian command, decimated government, “inflicting incredible damage,” but Iran’s regime may have more political staying power compared to American voters’ patience.

  “We are inflicting incredible damage. But ... I think Iran has the ability to simply hang in there much longer than we do because we're dealing with political dynamics.” ([34:48])

• Jim Hansen: The true victory (“Holy Grail”) is seizing Iran’s enriched uranium—without it, the core objective (preventing a nuclear weapon) is unfulfilled.

  “The goal all along has been to stop Iran from getting a nuclear weapon ... the enriched uranium ... you have to get that.” ([36:55])

• Both analysts agree: Military actions can delay Iran’s program, but true assurance requires ground action or regime change—neither of which is certain or imminent.

The Limits of Military Solutions

• Piers questions U.S. credibility: After previous claims of neutralizing Iran’s nuclear program, a new war was required months later.
• Hansen acknowledges Trump’s hyperbolic style, notes the impermanence of military gains:

  “President Trump took the poison pill for all of us and went ahead and took him out of the game and hopefully he's taken that regime out for the long term.” ([42:20])

Predictions

• Hansen: A blockade of the Straits of Hormuz will cripple Iran’s economy, force capitulation on uranium, and begin the regime’s slow collapse.
• Marks: U.S. will ramp up military presence, may negotiate over uranium, but can’t guarantee success without “boots on the ground” and full intelligence on Iran’s stockpiles.

“Until we put boots on the ground and we start opening steel doors, there's never going to be a level of certainty that's going to satisfy everybody.” (Marks, [39:15])

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Summary Table of Important Segments

| Timestamp | Segment / Topic | |-----------|-----------------------------------------------------| | 00:53–03:24 | Piers lays out war context and international backlash | | 03:24–07:16 | Spielman and Hasan opening arguments (Iran threat vs. Israel’s record) | | 11:34–17:32 | Nuclear ambiguity, UN law, and Israeli exceptionalism | | 24:02–25:95 | War goals and shifting definitions of success | | 31:41–34:00 | Civilian deaths and accountability in Lebanon | | 34:00–46:10 | Military analyst breakdown: Is the war “winnable”? |

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Takeaways

• The core debate: Who truly threatens regional security, Israel or Iran?
• Israel’s defense is focused on existential threats and necessity; Hasan’s challenge is on hypocrisy, law, and the cost of aggression.
• Nuclear double standards are sharply argued, with Israel refusing full transparency but demanding it of Iran.
• Military experts agree Israel/US can disrupt but not eradicate Iran’s nuclear ambitions—unless the impossible (full seizure of enriched uranium) is achieved.
• Public opinion and global legitimacy are now weighing heavily on the Israeli government.
• Moral authority and truth claims are fiercely contested: Both sides accuse the other of projection, denial, and deadly consequences.

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The episode’s tone is combative, unsparing, and urgent, reflecting sharp disagreements on law, morality, and strategic logic—mirroring the wider global debate on Israel, Iran, and the future of the Middle East.

Transcript

[Doron Spielman]

What are we talking about?

[Mehdi Hasan]

Wake up.

[Doron Spielman]

This is the face of terror. With the bomb that's being stopped. President Trump, Prime Minister Netanyahu, and it should be. The entire Western world has an opportunity to stop this before it happens.

[Mehdi Hasan]

I'm hearing him talk about monsters in charge of governments, the face of terror, nuclear weapons. Who are we talking about here? Iran or Israel? Which country in the Middle east attacked six countries in the Middle east last year?

[Piers Morgan]

Six.

[Mehdi Hasan]

It wasn't Iran, it was Israel.

[Doron Spielman]

You're in absolute denial. And so was Candace Owens and so is Tucker Carlson.

[Mehdi Hasan]

I'm not here to speak for Tucker Carlson or Candice Owens, who I've been very critical of. I'm not here to speak for Iran, who I've been very critical of. I'm here to talk about facts.

[Doron Spielman]

You're defending. You sound like Mehdi Khamenei.

[Mehdi Hasan]

Of course, go for racist insult. That's all you have left.

[Doron Spielman]

We murdered 300 terrorists last week, and I think those are your people.

[Mehdi Hasan]

Wow.

[Piers Morgan]

The people of Lebanon were supposed to be enjoying a badly needed break from the bombing. President Trump had announced a two week ceasefire. The US and the Pakistanis were clear initially that it included the Israeli war against Hezbollah. Instead, Israel launched a blitz. Hundreds were killed and thousands wounded by an IDF bombardment under the Chilean codename Operation Eternal Darkness. The death toll in Lebanon is now more than 2,000, according to the Health Ministry. As I said on this show three weeks ago, for debate about whether Israel forced Trump to start the war will soon be a question whether Israel is the barrier to ending it. While many Israelis believe the war is righteous and necessary, the damage to Israel's global standing could be devastating. Spain is openly calling Netanyahu a war criminal. This weekend, Turkey compared him to Hitler. And record numbers now look unfavorably on Israel and the United States, where plenty of people think with an increasing body of evidence that Netanyahu forced Trump into a disaster. Drawing me to debate, this is Mehdi Hasan, founder of Zateo News, and Doran Spielman, the reservist, IDF spokesman and author of when the Stones Speak. Well, welcome to both of you. Doris Spielman, welcome back to Uncensored. The New York Times piece that came out several days ago painted a pretty extraordinary picture of the prime minister of Israel sitting in the Situation Room at the White House with the head of Mossad appearing on a large screen and painting a picture of what would happen if the United States joined Israel in taking out the supreme leader of Iran and his top people who were all going to be congregating that inevitably what would happen is the irgc, the sort of ruling regime underneath the Supreme Leader, would collapse, the people of Iran would rise up, and that nobody would care or notice. The Strait of Hormuz that would be. And the relevance to. To all this and all that's happened is that. And a lot of people in the room on the American side thought this was fantasyland. And all that's happened is the first part happened. The ayatollah and his top people were taken out in a successful strike, but the IRGC remain in place. The people haven't risen up. And the Iranians have worked out the Strait of Hormuz can be used as an economic weapon to rival anything that people can do against them militarily and cause enormous global economic damage. Do you accept that the Americans were sold a pup here,

[Doron Spielman]

Pierce? Thank you for having me. I think, actually, Pierce, we're going to look back at this as a war that was as consequential as perhaps if the west had information in 1936 to ask to act against Nazi Germany. We have to put this in perspective. Wars take time. Iran has had 40 years to embed. There's not been a single US president, starting with Ronald Reagan, who I greatly respect, going all the way through Clinton and Obama and Biden, who's been willing to pay the political capital to stop the Iranian terror regime, the largest regime, in the world, from developing a nuclear weapon. And why? Because it requires a preemptive strike. You have to preemptively stop Iran. If you don't preemptively stop Iran from having a bomb, the alternative is you're only going to stop it when that bomb lands on your soil. And we don't want to have a 9 11, where instead of two passenger planes, we're dealing with an atomic weapon. And I think President Trump has been incredibly consistent from the very beginning. And here, obviously shares a value with Israel, which is that Iran cannot be a nuclear regime. It's very, very simple. You cannot have an Iranian terror regime that instead of blocking the Straits of Hormuz with ballistic missiles, they can block the Straits of Hormuz with a nuclear weapon. You can't have a regime that when they shoot at Israel, which we've had more than 6,000 of their weapons, both from Hezbollah and Iran, We've had over 1,000 over the last 12 months, any one of them loaded with a nuclear weapon. And we have to take a step back here. We see the face of the regime. They're an evil monster. They're hitting their own allies. How could we even conceive that we would not take the opportunity to eliminate this before it grows? And the shock, Pierce, is that I have people like Mehdi who's going to join us shortly, and people all over these kind of this liberal fantasy land that you can transplant what you hear in the Oxford corridors if you just act nice and you kind of reason with them. Well, maybe they want a bomb, but they're not really going to use it. It's only for civilian energy. What are we talking about? Wake up. This is the face of terror. With Obama being stopped, and therefore, I think President Trump, Prime Minister Netanyahu, and it should be, the entire Western world is now has an opportunity to stop this before it happens. And I think if anything, it's praiseworthy. Pierce.

[Piers Morgan]

Okay, Mehdi Hasan. It's praiseworthy.

[Mehdi Hasan]

Well, it's not praiseworthy. The entire war has been a disaster. I think everyone agrees on that. Even the Israeli opposition agrees it's been a disaster. The way Netanyahu and Trump have handled it. I think any objective person can look at the state of this war, even if, if you are pro the US Government, pro the Israeli government, and say it's been a success. But let's put that to one side. I want to take on board what Doran said across the board, because a lot of it was pure projection. I mean, I'm hearing him talk about monsters in charge of governments, the face of terror, nuclear weapons. Who are we talking about here, Iran or Israel? Because I would ask a few questions for your viewers to consider today as they listen to Doron. Which country in the Middle east has nuclear weapons? It's not Iran, It's Israel. Which country in the Middle east has not signed the npt, the non Proliferation Treaty? It's not Iran, It's Israel. Which country in the Middle east is defying a UN Security Council resolution calling for that country to open up its nuclear facilities to IAEA inspectors? It's not Iran. It's Israel. Which country in the Middle east attacked six countries in the Middle east last year? Six. It wasn't Iran. It was Israel. So Iran, for all its many sins and crimes, is not the rogue nuclear state in the Middle east right now. That country is Israel. As you said, Piers, in your introduction, global public opinion has made it very clear that they see Israel as the threat to regional and international peace right now. You pointed out, Piers, that it's Benjamin Netanyahu dragging American Republican presidents into wars of Choice. Iraq in 2002. Three. And now Iran in 2025, 2026.

[Piers Morgan]

Yeah. I mean, Doris Spellman, the floor in your argument is just a bunch of woolly liberals who didn't want to this to happen. If you look at actually the reaction from American conservatives, you know, you got Tucker Carlson, Megyn Kelly, Candace Owens, Alex Jones. You've got Trump supporters like Joe Rogan, Theo Vaughn and others, the big podcasters who helped get him elected. There's a massive cross section of very influential people, many of whom are conservative Trump supporters historically, who have condemned this war and want nothing to do with it. So I don't think you can just bat it away as, oh, it's just a bunch of, you know, liberals throwing their toys out of the pram. It's not.

[Doron Spielman]

You know, I love the word projection because projection is used by people who don't live in the real world because the alternative to a projection when it comes to a nuclear weapon. When does that projection end, Mehdi? Does it end when Iran is trying to develop enriched uranium? And already back before, the JCPOA had already developed six times, and now they've developed almost 90% of enriched uranium, which is 20 times the amount you need for an atomic weapon? Is that for civil uses? Is that still a projection or is it when they actually press that little button and it lands in the U.S.

[Piers Morgan]

well, let me ask you before.

[Doron Spielman]

Hold on, hang on, hang on.

[Piers Morgan]

Given.

[Jim Hansen]

Given.

[Piers Morgan]

You said objection.

[Doron Spielman]

That 22 civilians have been.

[Piers Morgan]

But let me ask you.

[Doron Spielman]

Ballistic missiles. And we've got 600 warheads on Israel. We've had warheads.

[Mehdi Hasan]

You've killed 2,000 people in Lebanon and 3,000 people in Iran.

[Doron Spielman]

And regarding, you know, regard. This is so funny regarding Iran. You know, you put them on the, on the court bench. Let's just. You call in someone for a character reference comparing Iran to Israel. Who's Iran? Well, they developed a global terror regime that stretches from the Middle east through Latin America into Europe. They have the Houthis, who've stopped shipping and have fired missiles and weapons both at Israel and US Assets. They created Hezbollah, the world's largest terror organization that is also one of the largest drug organizations.

[Mehdi Hasan]

You created Hezbollah by illegally invading Lebanon.

[Doron Spielman]

Who committed October 7th. They just killed 30,000 of their people in the streets for protesting them. I mean, do we need such a projection? I mean, only an idiot would actually say we need a projection to understand what Iran's intent is. We don't even need to try shoving it in your face. Matty, you're an absolute denial. And so was Candace Owens, and so is Tucker Carlson and President Trump.

[Mehdi Hasan]

Thank God. I'm not here to speak for. I'm not here to speak for. Hold on, hold on, hold on. Let me respond. You said a lot there. I'm not here to speak for Tucker Carlson or Candace Owens, who I've been very critical of. I'm not here to speak for Iran, who I've been very critical of. I'm here to talk about facts. You say projection. Let's just deal with your little speech in two ways. Number one, even if I were to accept your premise that Iran's nuclear program was a threat, even though the IEA and US Intelligence say it wasn't, but let's accept your premise that it was a threat. This is not the way you stop a nuclear program. We had the jcpoa, which Israel opposed, Donald Trump opposed. Iran was enriching at 3.67%, had no pathway to a bomb under the JCPOA. As every major disarmament and nuclear expert said at the time, it was Israel, Netanyahu, Trump that opposed this. And now we have them at 60% enriched uranium because of the actions of Israel and Donald Trump. So if you claim to want to stop Iran from having a nuclear weapon, you've done a very bad job of doing that. In fact, if you're the Iranian leadership now, you probably want a bomb more now than ever before because you've been attacked by Israel two years running. That's one point on the point about projection. The point I'm making is this, Dorian, and you dodged it. So let me ask it again. The only country in the Middle east right now that can put its finger on a button and fire a nuke. Is Israel the only country threatening to fire the nuke it has? Ben GVIR smiled and nodded the other day when an Israeli journalist suggested nuking Iran is Israel. Why is your country. Doran, you're a spokesman for the military in violation of UN Resolution 487, which was unanimously passed, including by the Reagan administration in 1981, calling for Israel to open up its nuclear facilities to the iaea. Why wouldn't you allow IAE inspectors to look at your illicit, secret nuclear weapons program?

[Doron Spielman]

First of all, I think you and I both know that there are no binding United nations resolutions against Israel. Not.

[Mehdi Hasan]

Yes, there is. U.N. security Council Resolution 487.

[Doron Spielman]

There's not a.

[Mehdi Hasan]

You're wrong, Dorothy. You're wrong.

[Doron Spielman]

U.N. resolution.

[Mehdi Hasan]

You're wrong.

[Doron Spielman]

And there is a number of.

[Mehdi Hasan]

You're like, everyone can Google it right now. UN Security Council Resolution 487. People can Google It.

[Doron Spielman]

You just said it yourself.

[Mehdi Hasan]

You can talk over me. Basically just UN Security Council Resolution 4, 8, 7.

[Doron Spielman]

We can talk over me.

[Mehdi Hasan]

Wait and make my point again.

[Jim Hansen]

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[Mehdi Hasan]

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[Doron Spielman]

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[Mehdi Hasan]

Defy high interest debt with a SOFI personal loan. Visit sofi.com stunt to learn more. Loans originated by Sofi Bank NA member FDIC terms and conditions apply. NMLS 696891 well, let me just make one point and then I'll let you speak indefinitely. UN Resolution 4, 8, 7. You can Google it right now. People can watch it at home. In 1981, the Reagan administration voted for it. It calls on Israel to urgently open up its facilities to IAEA controls. That is a UN Security Council resolution which is binding under international law. Israel has been in violation of it for 45 years. Why are you in violation of it? And do you accept that Israel has nuclear weapons? If you won't accept that, why should we take anything you say seriously on anything?

[Doron Spielman]

It is not a binding resolution. However, I want to get your point because I think you just answered it for me. You said that this has been Israel, according to you, has been. Has been in violation for 40 years. So therefore you're assuming Israel said a nuclear weapon for 40 years. Can you tell me one time, Mehdi, it has one single time. Are you denying threatened? Are you denying another country? Can you tell me, Mehdi, one time? When the Israeli Prime Minister last week under an entire command center last week with mask controls.

[Mehdi Hasan]

Just once I answered your question.

[Doron Spielman]

That is last week to another country. Hold on, Mehdi. Another country. As you and I both know that Iran. Who you have projections about the Supreme Leader, right? Ali Khamenei, which I'm very curious why you defend him and his entire regime. Eli Ham refers to Israel. I haven't defended him as the little Satan. And we both know. Wait, we both know how he refers to the United States, meaning this spiritual leader. You've called him a spiritual leader?

[Piers Morgan]

Doran, you're not. Let me jump in here. Doran. Let me jump in. Let me jump in, please.

[Doron Spielman]

Calls America the Great Satan.

[Piers Morgan]

Let me jump in, please.

[Doron Spielman]

You want to give him a nuclear weapon?

[Piers Morgan]

Stop talking.

[Doron Spielman]

Are fighting together.

[Piers Morgan]

Please stop talking. I am here. I am here and I am moderating this panel. Much as you both like to just get off without me. Medi raises the point I have raised with a number of pro Israeli guests in the last few weeks. Why is it that Israel does not admit it has nuclear weapons and are you prepared to do so now?

[Doron Spielman]

Israel, as we all know, is a state that upon its very founding faced an existential threat from seven countries that attacked it. We also know that in 1967 Israel was attacked by three countries, followed by 1973, followed by the Gulf War in 1981, followed by Hezbollah and Hamas. There's probably not been another country on earth.

[Piers Morgan]

What's this got to do with you?

[Doron Spielman]

According to the non Proliferation Treaty, which Israel has not signed and therefore is not bound by Israel if it maintains a nuclear arsenal, it has not used it. And if it maintains it, it is because it's.

[Piers Morgan]

Why are you saying if you know the answer.

[Doron Spielman]

Hold on. And since the Holocaust, which today is International Holocaust Day in Israel, it's Israeli Holocaust Day and we are mourning tonight 6 million Jews that have died. Israel maintains the ability never to rely on anyone else. And therefore Israel is not bound by the Nuclear Proliferation Treaty. It didn't sign on. Who is bound by the United States is bound and it has followed it.

[Piers Morgan]

Yeah, but how can you demand. How can you demand.

[Mehdi Hasan]

Pierce Doran, you're not answering my question

[Doron Spielman]

because of an existential threat. I just want to say Iran has signed it and violated it. Doran, from already from 2002 to violence,

[Piers Morgan]

how can you, with a straight face defend Israel's determination for full transparency by another country over its nuclear weapon ambitions when you have so far steadfastly ducked my very simple question as to whether Israel has its own nuclear weapons?

[Doron Spielman]

And if I have not ducked your question, do you have them or not? And I explained to you that while I do not have firsthand knowledge of Israel's nuclear facilities like you, I've heard the foreign reports.

[Piers Morgan]

You don't know. You don't know.

[Doron Spielman]

Hold on.

[Piers Morgan]

I'm answering as a reservist, IDF spoken. You don't know if Israel's nukes.

[Doron Spielman]

I would assume it is highly likely, as do you, that that Israel has a nuclear program. Israel never signed the npt. And the reason Israel never signed the npt, I would assume, even though I wasn't in the room, is because Israel maintains its individual right to defend itself. To compare that now to Iran and a potential nuclear program in a regime that is the world's number one global terrorism or they are not just terrorism. They engineered the idea of terrorism. They represent terror that has killed 241American marines. They have killed 85 Jews in Buenos Aires. They have killed thousands of US soldiers with roadside bombs. They have carried out 22 according to MI5 mass casualty attempts in England since 2022. They just killed 40,000 of the protesters. Israel has a protest about cottage cheese. Israel's protests every day. How can you compare the idea that we have a nuclear weapon and Iran? The potential of Hitler.

[Mehdi Hasan]

Let me.

[Piers Morgan]

Wait, let many respond.

[Mehdi Hasan]

I noticed that Duran said that Iran killed 30,000 of its people a few minutes ago. Now he's saying 40,000. By the end of this discussion, it'll be 100,000. It's funny how they inflate the numbers of people killed in Iran, but never recognize the hundred thousand people you killed in Gaza, that your military killed in Gaza. 100,000 people minimum killed in Palestine, which are actually verified numbers by international organizations like the Lancet Medical Journal. You deny those, but let's put that to one side and deal with some of the stuff you've been saying. Number one, just some fact checks. A UN Security Council resolution is binding under international law. The Reagan administration voted for it and you've never followed it. You proudly say you haven't signed the npt. People watching at home will laugh their heads off. You're basically saying because we didn't sign an international treaty, we don't have to follow international law. So then why doesn't Iran just pull out of the npt? Why doesn't everyone just pull out the NPT and do what Israel did? You say Israel reserves the right to do that? Old chestnut. No other country in the Middle east is allowed to defend itself. Israel is the country that bombed, count them, six countries in the Middle east last year. I can't think of a single country on planet Earth aside from the US and Israel, that bombed half a dozen countries in the calendar year 2025. That is your country that you're defending. A rogue nation that bombs whoever it sees fit and then claims to be a victim. You say that. For example, you mentioned in your comments, you said 1967, we were attacked. Complete flat falsehood. Israel attacked first in 1967. Everyone knows that. It's a documented fact. You can call it a preemptive war, but you can't just lie on here and say you were attacked. You were not. You said that Iran pioneered the use of terrorism in the Middle East. Actually, that was the Zionist gangs, that was the Stern Gang and the Irgun who blew up British diplomats, bombed the King David Hotel, hung British sergeants, attacked British civilians and military and Arabs. It was actually Jewish and Zionist terror gangs that pioneered terrorism in the Middle East 100 years ago. So a lot of your facts are just completely wrong and you're dodging peers central point, which is that you do have nukes. You know you have nukes. You're not allowed to say you have nukes, which makes this whole conversation so absurd. But the idea that you would come on TV and go after someone else's civil nuclear program. Remember, the US Says Iran did not have a weapons program while you yourself have weapons. That's the US Intelligence community's view. They said last year. That is what the US Said last year. The US Annual.

[Doron Spielman]

Then why do we need to.

[Mehdi Hasan]

Let me read that. Let me read out the quote to you.

[Doron Spielman]

Program that you support.

[Mehdi Hasan]

Let me read. Let me. Let me. Let me.

[Doron Spielman]

Why do we.

[Mehdi Hasan]

Let me read out the quote to you. Let me read out the quote to you. If you stop interrupting me. I didn't interrupt you, Doran. You spoke for a while in 2025. This is what the Director of National Intelligence said. We continue to assess Iran is not building a nuclear weapon and that Khamenei has not reauthorized the nuclear weapons program he suspended in 2003. A country that doesn't have nukes is being lectured by a country that does have nukes. It would be funny if it wasn't so tragic and you hadn't killed so many Iranian kids as part of your supposedly disarmament program.

[Piers Morgan]

Let me ask you, Dora, let me ask you a question, Dora. Let me. You can respond.

[Doron Spielman]

Can I respond?

[Piers Morgan]

You can respond, but let me ask you. Let me ask you another question.

[Doron Spielman]

Like Israel wasn't attacked in 67. That Israel is basically decided to work.

[Mehdi Hasan]

You launched the 67 war. That's a fact.

[Doron Spielman]

What Mehdi does is he tells a fantasy story. Israel woke up one morning two years ago and said, you know what? We're a country of 9 million people. Let's go attack six countries throughout the Middle East.

[Mehdi Hasan]

Not two years ago, Dorothy. Not two years ago.

[Doron Spielman]

Because. Because we just.

[Mehdi Hasan]

78 years ago, you've been bombing your

[Doron Spielman]

neighbors, by the way, 78 years.

[Mehdi Hasan]

You've been bombing your neighbors from the very beginning.

[Doron Spielman]

A very, very, very long time.

[Mehdi Hasan]

And you interrupted me, Dora.

[Doron Spielman]

I mean, I assume that you want to hear my answer. That's why we're here.

[Mehdi Hasan]

October 8th, you interrupted me when I was trying to read out the threat assessment, remember?

[Doron Spielman]

October 8th, there was also a war. That war began when Hezbollah saw Israel weakened on October 7 and launched a campaign of 6,000 rockets at Israel and then Israel responded. Iran fired 500 ballistic missiles, which has been attacking Israel consistently. And Israel decided back then with the United States that it is time to deal with the number one terror regime in the entire world. And what I hear from you, Mehdi, is you make an incredibly compelling case diverting the conversation away from stopping Iran's nuclear power by hyper focusing on the Israeli democracy that you yourself admit has had nuclear weapons for 40 years and never used them. And you were essentially getting a get out of jail free card for Iran. Mehdi, do you want, Are you willing, if there's a possibility in your projection, if you projected that Iran would have nuclear weapon, would you be concerned?

[Piers Morgan]

All right, well, let me. I want to ask a question based around that, which is. Well, hang on, hang on. If I could just ask a question of Doran now, which is this, which is if the whole purpose of this war was to stop Iran developing a nuclear weapon, do you concede now that if you don't get the enriched uranium, either voluntarily handed to you by Iran or by seizure, which would require the use of ground forces, that the whole war will have been a failure? Do you accept?

[Doron Spielman]

No, it wouldn't have all been a failure because obviously we will not get the most important thing, which is to remove the enriched uranium from Iran. And that is the number one, the number one goal.

[Piers Morgan]

If we don't get the uranium, if

[Doron Spielman]

we do not get the uranium, the number one goal of this war will not be fulfilled. And it's going to put the war in a sense of stagnation, which I think will probably continue until that happens for one of two reasons. Either Iran is going to develop a nuclear weapon and threaten the rest of the world and the world will then try to stop them, probably too late, or at some point in the future, I don't know when either the US Or Israel will try to make that happen. However, this war has been incredibly successful for a very simple reason. We have destroyed Iran's nuclear production capabilities, its launching timers, its hard fuel. All of the many things that go in in order to take that bomb, put it on a warhead and shoot it have been destroyed. Their ballistic missile program has been weakened as.

[Piers Morgan]

How do we know? Because last time, last summer, leadership, when the foreign. With respect, last summer after the 12 day war, we were assured that the whole nuclear capability of Iran had been put back decades. It was done, flattened. It was over. Eight months later, a massive war was launched against Iran because it turned out that was all baloney.

[Doron Spielman]

Now, it wasn't baloney, but I'll concede

[Piers Morgan]

what many people will say is exactly the same rhetorical baloney again. You're also conceding that if the enriched uranium remains in Iran, this war's a failure, and I don't see how.

[Doron Spielman]

You said it isn't a failure because you'll set back a terror regime that operates with ballistic missiles.

[Piers Morgan]

Operates as the regime remains in place.

[Doron Spielman]

In Hamas, you'll have taken again, the

[Piers Morgan]

Supreme Leader's son has been suffering by Ayatollah, right? Yeah.

[Doron Spielman]

Say this again. I'm sorry?

[Piers Morgan]

The Ayatollah, the Supreme leader who was killed, his son is his replacement. The IRGC regime remains in place. There's been no protests from the people of Iran. And the straits and foremost have become a massive weapon for the Iranians to use economically as they also simultaneously attack their Gulf State neighbors. So the idea that you. My point is the idea that, that at the end of this, Iran keeps its enriched uranium. You would have to admit in that eventuality, the wars are not just.

[Doron Spielman]

No, because a war, Pierce, it's very rare that you get a victory. What's called, you know, unconditional surrender of any enemy. I don't think it's happened since World War II, which you get in worse accumulative gains. Again, this is not fast food. You know, it's like a McDonald's drive through. The woman says, what do you want? You say, I want, you know, the Iranian regime, this is a process that began a number of months ago with the 12 Day War. And what Israeli intelligence and US intelligence saw is as soon as that war ended, Iran went right back to building a nuclear program, developing the nuclear sites, digging forward the uranium that was there. They refurbished their ballistic missile sites, and we're expanding it from 2,500 to 7,000. And like you said, that now that we see Elihamenei has been killed, what do we see happen? They have not reformed. They put in another member of the exact same family, meaning this regime is ruined.

[Mehdi Hasan]

So you have done this. Hold on, can I. Can I actually say stop them, Piers.

[Doron Spielman]

It's the ideal.

[Piers Morgan]

Ok. Mehdi's response, please.

[Mehdi Hasan]

So what both of you are missing to an extent is it's not really about what uranium is left in the country, it's about intent. You have left the Israelis and the American government have left the Israeli left the Iranian government not just in place. There hasn't been the regime change that Netanyahu lied to Trump and said would be easy in that situation meeting. They've not just left the Iranian regime in place. But they've left the Iranian government with the clear intent to want to have to defend itself, to use Doron and the Israelis favorite phrase, their right to self defense. If you were in the Iranian government today, would you not want to get nuclear weapons? Would you not think I'd been attacked two years running by people I was in the middle of negotiations with? Every time I'm in a negotiation with them, they kill our negotiators, they kill our top foreign diplomats, they threaten to kill more of us. Every time we're doing a deal, whether it's in Geneva or Vienna or Oman, they attack us, which is what the Israelis did last year. Why would you not want to get nuclear weapons? Why would you not look at North Korea and say no one dares touch North Korea because they have nukes? Why would you not listen to Doron speaking on Piers Morgan saying, well we didn't sign the NPT so we don't have any obligations not to have nukes. Why wouldn't Iran say, well we're going to pull out of the npt, we're going to do what North Korea did and we're going to do it because the world saw us get illegally attacked two years running. Doran asked me, do I want Iran to have nuclear weapons?

[Major General Marks]

No.

[Mehdi Hasan]

I'm anti nuclear weapons. I'm not like you. I don't support nukes and have a secret nuclear weapons program. I supported the jcpoa, which in the very first paragraph Iran affirmed never to build nuclear weapons, which said that Iran could only enrich to 3.67% which got rid of a lot of their highly enriched uranium. You, the Israeli government, NETanyahu stopped the JCPA, wrecked the JCUPA. You helped Iran enriched to 20 and then 60. You brought us to this situation, the Israeli government and the Donald Trump administration. So don't lecture the rest of us about nukes when you have nukes. And you've now incentivized Iran to get nukes. Every year there is a resolution. Let me just Finish my point, Doran. 14 unpiers spoke for a very long time. Let me finish my point. You said you don't like interruptions. I'll finish in a moment. The UN General assembly votes every year to have a weapons of mass destruction free zone in the Middle East. Iran votes for that resolution. Everyone in the world votes for that resolution. Two countries don't vote for that resolution. That is the US and Israel because Israel wants to be the only power. Well, Iran doesn't have nukes and you

[Doron Spielman]

do you are so naive, it's unbelievable.

[Mehdi Hasan]

You can't even tell.

[Doron Spielman]

You can't even tell Doran.

[Mehdi Hasan]

You can't even tell the viewers today whether Israel has naive.

[Doron Spielman]

You're defending me wrong.

[Mehdi Hasan]

You can't even say what's wrong.

[Doron Spielman]

You realize, Mehdi, you're defending Doran.

[Mehdi Hasan]

Why should anyone believe anything you say? No, I'm not.

[Doron Spielman]

Actually, it's Ali Khamenei. That's your leader.

[Mehdi Hasan]

No, the us. The US disagree with you.

[Doron Spielman]

There's no evidence. Which one are you? Because you're defending. You sound like Mehdi Khamenei. We're a nice program. We vote against nuclear weapons.

[Mehdi Hasan]

Of course, we just want go for racist insults. That's all you have left.

[Doron Spielman]

We already had 20% enriched uranium. I mean, who are you speaking to as an American citizen?

[Mehdi Hasan]

And yet as a British election, you're going back to 2014.

[Doron Spielman]

Doranah, 2014. Who are you speaking of?

[Mehdi Hasan]

You're speaking of the Israeli military.

[Doron Spielman]

It was reported before the jpoa.

[Mehdi Hasan]

Exactly when did the JCPO get signed or on? Do you know what year?

[Doron Spielman]

2015.

[Mehdi Hasan]

You know what year the JCPO was signed?

[Doron Spielman]

2015.

[Mehdi Hasan]

Exactly the year later. So why are you going back to 2014? It was resolved in 2015 and then you and Trump came along and wrecked it. No, the Trump administration vouched and said Iran was complying with the jcpoa. So when you keep saying, why do you trust Iran? Iran did what it had to do it according to the iaea.

[Doron Spielman]

Let's unpack the jcpoa.

[Mehdi Hasan]

Mattie, you tell us. No, no, no, no, no, no.

[Doron Spielman]

Matti, tell us the conditions of the jcpoa.

[Mehdi Hasan]

I'm gonna tell you what happened under the jcpoa.

[Doron Spielman]

Tell me about what the JCPOA say.

[Mehdi Hasan]

You know.

[Doron Spielman]

Tell us all the truth.

[Mehdi Hasan]

I do know and I'm. I'm telling you now. The JCPOA allowed Iran to enrich at 3.67%. When did they start enriching to 20%? When you and your friends in the Israeli government and Donald Trump tore up the JCPOA. Jim has 20% general in the American military who was Defense secretary. Not under the jcpoa. No, they did not. As everybody. What do you think happened? By the way? By the way? By the way what? By the way, Doron. What enriched uranium does Israel have? Because the IAEA aren't allowed into Israel. So why don't you tell us? You say we're naive.

[Piers Morgan]

Everyone watches.

[Doron Spielman]

Again, you're comparing. You're comparing your own country with Iran.

[Mehdi Hasan]

Nuclear weapons, which is Yes, I am.

[Doron Spielman]

Which is.

[Mehdi Hasan]

I'm comparing the country that is attacked,

[Doron Spielman]

which is morally saying Israel's not closing. Why?

[Mehdi Hasan]

Why? You're worse. You're morally worse in Iran.

[Doron Spielman]

Not funding.

[Mehdi Hasan]

You're morally worse than Iran. You bombed Israel.

[Doron Spielman]

Best countries target mar.

[Mehdi Hasan]

You bombed six countries.

[Doron Spielman]

Israel does not Hezbollah or Hamas. You bombed six countries in the streets even though you think it does Israel.

[Mehdi Hasan]

You just murdered children in Lebanon last week. Particularly your military just killed 300 people in a single 10 minute span last week. You blew up children in strollers. You killed a one year old at a funeral. You killed 300 people in Lebanon in

[Piers Morgan]

one day last week.

[Doron Spielman]

Who played that battle for you?

[Mehdi Hasan]

Filled up the hospitals you bombed.

[Doron Spielman]

Who created that battle?

[Mehdi Hasan]

You did. You violated the ceasefire with Hezbollah 15,000 times. Yes.

[Doron Spielman]

Is there anyone over there 15,000 times according to the Hezbollah. That was Doran.

[Mehdi Hasan]

I know you don't like facts, right? But you haven't brought a single fact. Iran.

[Doron Spielman]

Iran wastes the 15,000 and they killed him in cold blood.

[Mehdi Hasan]

Why did you violate the ceasefire?

[Doron Spielman]

Lebanon, please move out of the way so that we can actually kill Hezbollah. And Pierce had on.

[Mehdi Hasan]

Then why did you kill 300 people in 10 minutes?

[Doron Spielman]

Salah Maknu.

[Mehdi Hasan]

Why did you carry out Lebanon's October 7th last week?

[Doron Spielman]

You know it's not about you.

[Mehdi Hasan]

Why did you carry out Lebanon's October 7th last week?

[Doron Spielman]

Salah Maknu was on.

[Mehdi Hasan]

Why did you kill 300 people?

[Doron Spielman]

And I think you should listen to

[Mehdi Hasan]

what he 300 people.

[Doron Spielman]

You killed Pierce's show and he spoke.

[Mehdi Hasan]

Do you not feel ashamed that the Lebanon. Your military massacred 300 people in 10 minutes. How do you sleep at night?

[Piers Morgan]

I'm sure it is true. I'm sure it's true. Many Lebanese people would like Hezbollah gone, but it's also true that many Lebanese people right now are running terrified for their lives because of the bombing. A million people over them.

[Mehdi Hasan]

A million people displaced and a million

[Piers Morgan]

people have been displaced from their homes.

[Mehdi Hasan]

And there's a horrible familiar face that

[Piers Morgan]

follows what happened in Gaza.

[Doron Spielman]

If we don't displace them, then I go on this show and we're accused of killing civilians, Right?

[Piers Morgan]

And if we do, you are killing civilians anywhere.

[Mehdi Hasan]

You told them they can't come back. Don't lie, Doran. Don't gaslight us. You've told them, they're going to let you come back.

[Doron Spielman]

That means it's ethnic trending for you. Does Israel have a right to respond to Hezbollah after they shot 6,000 rockets at us unprovoked on October 8, 2023, one day after October 7. Do we have a right to respond?

[Mehdi Hasan]

Any country has a right to defend itself. Of course it does.

[Doron Spielman]

Israel has a right to defend itself.

[Mehdi Hasan]

Does Lebanon have a right to defend itself from Israeli invasion? Hold on, Doran, you always start these timelines. You start these timelines in weird places. You say 2014, ignoring what happened in 2015. You say October 8, 2023. You ignore what happened in 2024. Doran. Let me remind the viewers of peers uncensored, there was a ceasefire between Israel and Hezbollah since the end of 2024. According to the UN. According to UN peacekeepers that Israel keeps attacking. You keep attacking Irish and Nepalese and Indonesian peacekeepers. The UN peacekeepers in southern Lebanon say Israel violated the ceasefire. Not a thousand times, not 5,000 times. They say you violated the ceasefire 15,000 times over the last 18 months. So please don't come and tell me about unprovoked.

[Doron Spielman]

I don't know about you.

[Mehdi Hasan]

You, Israel violated that ceasefire. Well, you can Google is your friend okay? 400 people.

[Doron Spielman]

There was one.

[Piers Morgan]

We've run out of time. Lebanon, I'm sorry, We've run out of time.

[Mehdi Hasan]

You murdered 300 people last week, including a baby at a father's funeral. I'm going to leave.

[Doron Spielman]

You murdered 300 terrorists last week and I think those are your people.

[Piers Morgan]

Okay?

[Mehdi Hasan]

A one year old baby is a terrorist. I think that speaks volumes about your.

[Doron Spielman]

The one year old baby was put in harm's way because I'm going to leave it there.

[Piers Morgan]

Gentlemen, we've run out of time, so thank you both very much. I appreciate it.

[Doron Spielman]

Thank you.

[Major General Marks]

Pierce.

[Piers Morgan]

There's been a lot of talk, including from the White House, about a historic victory in the Iran war. In response, many of the war's critics says the humiliating defeat. Which one is it? Is it really possible or meaningful to declare a military victory if a general narrative is that you've not achieved very much at all? Joining me to discuss this, a retired U.S. army officer and a military intelligence expert, Major General James Spidermax and Jim Hansen, U.S. army Special Forces veteran and chief strategist for the Middle East Forum. Welcome to both of you. Major General Marks, is America with Israel? Are they winning this war or Israel, as some people are claiming, the asymmetrical war being waged by Iran in the Strait of Hormuz actually turning out to be more successful?

[Major General Marks]

Well, I see a lot of Vietnam wrapped up in this contest we're involved in right now. We're winning immensely on the battlefield. We have crushed Iran's ability to exercise command and control, we've decimated their ability to exercise, I would think, the domestic requirements of a legitimate government. We don't know who's in charge. I don't think the Iranian people know who's in charge. And I doubt anybody's going to raise a hand and say, look, I, I want to take the mantle of the burden of leadership, knowing full well if they go outside for a smoke break, they're going to get shot in the head. As well they should be. So my, my experience viewing this is that we are inflicting incredible damage. But from the perspective of who's got the longer horizon, time horizon, of how much longer we can withstand pain, I think Iran has the ability to simply hang in there much longer than we do because we're dealing with political dynamics which are really incredibly difficult for us to look at a warfare through the political spectrum. But that's what it's all about. But I think that's where it is. I've described this in many cases, but there's a lot like Monty Python and the Holy Grail and tis but a scratch, you know, as their arms and legs are getting cut off, but they've got the ability to hang in there.

[Piers Morgan]

Yeah. Jim Hansen I mean, it seems to me the goalposts have shifted significantly throughout this six week war. So far we've gone from wanting regime change to total surrender to now the main theme is we've got to stop Iran getting a nuke and so on. And it's all been very confusing and very inconsistent. But ultimately, if at the center of this is Donald Trump's claim that Iran must be stopped from developing a nuclear weapon, can this war be perceived to be successful if the enriched uranium which Iran possesses remains in Iran in their possession?

[Jim Hansen]

Well, to extend the metaphor, I'd say that's the Holy Grail. You have to get that. And I don't think there has been a shifting of goalposts. The goal all along has been to stop Iran from getting a nuclear weapon, being able to develop one, having the initiative to do it, having the ability, having the ballistic missile programs and other conventional arms that protect them and stop other people from going in and removing that capability. So from that perspective, all of those things have at least been put on hold or setback decades. Their defense industrial base is nonexistent at this point. They're running out of missiles and drones and everything else. And I think at some point you have to look at what President Trump's decision was. He had to either take the fact that they had begun trying to develop their nuke program again, which has one purpose. Let's not pretend it's about nuclear power. It never has been. It's always been about the Islamic Revolution's bomb. And he said if we don't do something to stop that at this point they're going to continue. And at some point another president is going to see a mushroom cloud. He's not going to be the guy who kicked the can down the road again. And so he took massive political damage to do the right thing for America and the world. And I think he'll see it.

[Piers Morgan]

But how is he going to get the enriched uranium without committing a significant number of ground forces with all the danger that goes with it?

[Jim Hansen]

He's going to break the Islamic Republic's will to continue. The blockade hurts them more than us. They need to get oil revenue and they need to bring things in. If that stops and we have every capability to do that, it's already started, then they only have a couple weeks where they have enough cash reserves. And the other thing to look at is if they don't get their oil out, their fields are pumping, their storage capability is at 60%. That'll be filled up in less than two weeks. After that they have to shut their wells down and that breaks the wells, that ruins the ability to continue pumping. So they've got a two week window tops if we enforce this blockade. And that's where the maximum pressure comes from. The kinetic stuff broke their dangerous toys. This breaks their ability to continue both internally and externally.

[Piers Morgan]

Major General Marks, do you agree with that assessment?

[Major General Marks]

Well, I agree with Jim, absolutely that what the United States in concert with the, in the campaign with Israel has been able to defeat the capability of the Iranians to achieve nuclear capability attrit their ballistic missile development and put their proxies either destroy their proxies or put their proxies on notice that they're not going to live much longer. And so I see this as we're in a period of transition and, and that we can go from what we've seen over the course of the last five weeks, which has been quite phenomenal and destructive in terms of what has been able to be achieved and we can transition into a period where we could have sustainable engagement against those targets. The three red lines are proxies, missiles and nukes. And we could have a sustained engagement that doesn't necessarily put boots on the ground at all to secure the aguas, but to identify it as best we can and Look, I spent my life as an intel guy, and I understand the challenges of getting it right, and I know the scar tissue of getting it wrong. But we can go after Esfahan, Natanz and Fordo as a matter of routine and further degrade their ability and set back their ability to be a threat. Until we put boots on the ground and we start opening steel doors, there's never going to be a level of certainty that's going to satisfy everybody. All the pundits are going to say, what is it, 30%, 80%? Look, I don't know. But we can set this back so that they don't become a threat until such point as the Iranian people say, look, we're tired of getting, we're tired of being in a threat situation all the time. Our social contract shoved down our throat 50 years ago is we've got to listen to these lunatics in Tehran, this theocracy, which is hypocritical, incredibly hypocritical at its root. And at some point, we give them the opportunity to rise up and say, we want something different. That horizon may be years away, but the horizon for us is racing upon us because we have elections, we have a, we have a vocal electorate, and we have challenges associated with that. And I don't, I don't disagree with Jim. I think every one of President Trump's predecessors is probably smoking a cigar and drinking a bourbon right now, saying, you know, for God's sakes, I wish I'd done that.

[Piers Morgan]

Well, I'm not convinced by that. And the reason is, I think there's also a credibility issue with President Trump, to be honest, which is that after the 12 Day War last summer, he was out there saying very loudly, we have destroyed their nuclear capability, put it back decades, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And yet within eight months, he felt the need to launch a full fledged war against Iran for precisely the reasons that he said had just had been neutralized eight months earlier. So there is a credibility issue there. And my question would be here. Well, how do we know, you know, whose word do we take if suddenly we get the same statements being made? Oh, we've done it again. Eight months later, we've, we've once again, we have neutralized the nuclear threat for another two decades. Well, how do we know what to believe, you know, Donald. So that was for Jim. Sorry, yeah, go ahead.

[Jim Hansen]

You know Donald Trump, you've talked to him. Yeah, he loves hyperbolic rhetoric. He plays information warfare as well as any leader on the planet. And in as long as I Can remember back to probably Reagan was the last guy who did that style. And Reagan's was polished movie star Trump's his bombastic New York real estate tycoon. And so he does that to throw the other side off balance. He claims things that he wants to be true to go ahead and assume the close. He uses every technique of the art of the deal to try and push what he wants to happen. Now, in this case, there was tremendous damage and their nuclear program was broken in the 12 day war. When we saw and noticed that they were doing things that said they're just going to continue to rebuild it, he had to recalculate and say, well, you know what? They didn't learn the lesson. We broke it. They couldn't make a bomb right now, but they're going to do it again. And these 12 or Shia Islam sect that Iran has believes that they need an Armageddon like event to bring the return of the 12th Imam to rule the world. So you can't trust guys like that. But you can say they're going to look at the long, long game. And if you want to go ahead and say, okay, during my presidency I took care of the midterms and kept a Republican majority, great. You don't do the right thing. President Trump took the poison pill for all of us and went ahead and took him out of the game and hopefully he's taken that regime out for the long term.

[Piers Morgan]

Okay, so quickly, Jim Hansen, it is just as we wrap up. Just give me a prediction for what you think is going to happen.

[Jim Hansen]

I think we will go ahead and blockade the strait and go ahead and stop them from gaining revenue for it and bringing stuff in. And that will break the regime enough that they will capitulate. They will give up the enriched uranium and figure they could make more later or cheat or buy one from somebody. And then what will happen is a longer, slow degradation of the entire Islamic Republic remnants until the people of Iran are feeling free enough to rise up with some help and go ahead and bring about a new government that serves their interests and needs and is not a menace to the region and the world.

[Piers Morgan]

Okay, Major General Marx, your prediction?

[Major General Marks]

I think we have weeks. We're in a period of transition at the tactical level. We're going to have an increased presence of Marines, which gives the CENTCOM commander some options if in fact there's an opportunity to do something with the highly enriched uranium. I think there will remain negotiations of a sort. I think we're going to have to get our hands around what the nuke discussion looks like that's a non negotiable, but I can't see a force, a non permissive engagement that allows us to go after highly enriched uranium primarily because we don't know where it is in its entirety and we don't know how much there is in its entirety. That becomes an incredibly different difficult mission set. Iran has also figured out how to make oil like everybody, like the Russians, it's very fungible. So conducting the blockade in the straits of Hormuz will release pressure, it will increase pressure on the regime in Tehran. I don't think it's going to break it, but it's going to be sufficient, in addition to what has already occurred, that I think there will be a. We will have negotiations again moving forward and we'll have an opportunity to start to address that red line, which is give us access to the highly enriched uranium. We can dilute it, we can turn it into something that allows you to have commercial nuclear power, which they have. They've got it in Bushir right now and that becomes an opportunity to stop what's happening to the regime right now. I think they would benefit greatly from that.

[Piers Morgan]

I bow to both of you in terms of your vastly superior military expertise on this. I just don't quite share your confidence. But I do appreciate you joining me. Thank you both very much.

[Major General Marks]

Thank you.

[Piers Morgan]

Good to be with you. Piers Morgan Unsensed is proudly independent. The only boss around here is me. You enjoy our show. We ask for only one simple thing. Hit subscribe on YouTube and follow Piers Morgan Uncensored on Spotify and Apple podcasts. And in return, we will continue our mission to inform, irritate and entertain. And we'll do it all for free. Independent, uncensored media has never been more critical and we couldn't do it without you.