A (3:32)

Jonathan Comricus. Surely you can't defend this, can you?

C (3:38)

Well. Well, as you know, Piers, not a spokesperson for my prime minister. Never was. I spoke on behalf of my military and, you know, on a rare occasion, I think I have to agree with some of your remarks. And, you know, I think head of opposition in Israel, he made the point that this isn't really a pardon request because there's no admittance of guilt and there's no repetence, repentance. So I think it's mostly a political issue. I try to stick in my lane, you know, to speak about things that I actually know a little bit about military affairs, our enemies, et cetera. And I wouldn't wander too much into it. And of course you have your opinions on it and that's fine.

A (4:26)

Well, to be honest, look, there are opinions that would pertain to any world leader, just to be clear. I mean, to remind people of what these charges are. And, you know, he would have been on trial by now if it wasn't for the war. And as I said at the start, many people believe he is on trial.

C (4:43)

Appears he is on trial a few times a week. He's in the.

A (4:48)

Sorry, yes, I'm sorry, just to clarify, counter evidence. I meant it would have all been sorted by now if it hadn't been for the war. Likely, right. I mean, we can't say for sure, but it's. It's likely it would have been dealt with. It was paused for a significant length of time.

C (5:01)

I think we can agree that it would have been faster, but I mean, the proceedings are ongoing. They're interrupted every day. I understand from various notes in the courtroom and that the prime Minister has to leave because of events and he's tending to state affairs and he gets notes from his assistants, and many of the proceedings have been canceled. So definitely the court and the court proceedings have been delayed by the fact that the defendant is actually running a country at war.

A (5:33)

Right. But of course, there. Right there is the incentive for him to carry on warmongering. I mean, he could argue if you were being cynical. I'm not saying that's my view. I'm saying if you were being cynical, you would say there's the incentive right there. Now, just to remind viewers of what the charges are, the first involves fraud and breach of trust. The allegation is that he and his wife Sara, received various goods from an Israeli Hollywood film producer, an Australian billionaire worth $200,000 in return for favorable economic and political treatment when Netanyahu was in government. Another fraud and breach of trust. A set of charges pertaining to a newspaper owner offering favorable coverage to Netanyahu and his family, alongside less favorable coverage for his political opponents in Israel's largest newspaper. In exchange, Netanyahu allegedly used his influence to promote legislation that would impose restrictions on rival publications and bring significant financial benefits to the paper owner in question. And then in relation to the other charges of bribery, fraud and breach of trust, Netanyahu is accused of using his powers and authorities as a public servant to promote a telecoms company, bezec. Under the alleged arrangement, the owners of a telecom company exerted substantial and continuing pressure on editors of its publications to change his coverage in line with various demands that made by Mr. Netanyahu and members of his family. Now, I don't care if it's Benjamin Netanyahu, the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, the President of France, it could be anybody, right? It doesn't matter who the world leader is. These are serious charges of bribery, fraud and corruption, which should be treated as the serious things that they are. For a world leader to be committing these kind of offenses and all that. He wasn't the actual leader of the country at the time most of this went on. But he was certainly one of the power people in the country. This is an abuse of power that he's accused of. And it seems to many, including me, Jonathan, if I'm brutally honest, I sit at the top, that it's a further abuse of power to try and get yourself off the ramp while you are the serving prime minister. And that's the problem. And I would say that whoever it was.

C (7:38)

And I would agree, and I would say that if someone wants a pardon, then there's an established norm for pardon, and that is to accept responsibility, admit guilt, and ask for forgiveness by doing so, begging for pardon. That's the way I, someone who is not a legal scholar and an expert understands it. And that's what I read is the acceptable norm. That isn't what we're seeing. What we're seeing is part of a. It's a political move at a very select point of time towards the president in order to apply pressure there and eventually to rid of something that definitely appears to be a quite burdensome nuisance for the prime minister. That's what I read into it. And yeah, as a citizen, you may call me naive, but I actually have trust in my legal system. I've seen previous sitting Israeli prime ministers be charged with corruption and sent to jail and serve time in jail, not two weeks like in France, but actually serve more than a year and a half. A guy that you had on here, Olmert, was convicted of corruption and he was suddenly sent to jail and he served jail time. We have a former president which is a far less executive power, but nevertheless the head of state. He was charged and convicted of sexual misconduct and things of that nature.

A (9:03)

You've never had. What you've never had is you never had a serving prime minister. Right. Using the fact that he's on trial for criminal charges, using the fact that he's the prime minister to get himself off the hook and Dave Smith to bring you back in there. I mean, he was.

C (9:18)

No, never a serving one and a very powerful one at that. I agree.

A (9:22)

Well, I'm glad that you've conceded on that ground, Dave. He was the minister of communications when this happened, so he was a member of the government. Like I said, we've discussed the abuse of power and the irony of another abuse of power to do it. How relevant or otherwise is the pressure that Donald Trump brought to bear on this, urging Isaac Herzog, the president, to fully pardon Netanyahu before this? Because you can't imagine that Netanyahu would have done this if Donald Trump hadn't preemptively said what he said.

B (9:54)

Maybe he would have. But certainly it's a pretty big deal when the president of the United States of America, the head, the commander in chief of the world empire, and of course, the country that president props up, Israel, inserts himself in their domestic politics like that. I mean, that is no small deal. So it's certainly noteworthy. I think it's all.

D (10:14)

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D (10:32)

Explore Teen accounts, automatic protections and all of our ongoing work@instagram.com teenaccounts.

B (10:42)

Also noteworthy that in that same trip that you're talking about, Pierce, is when Donald Trump joked around about how Miriam Adelson, his biggest donor, prefers Israel to the United States of America only to then a week or so later after he made the demand that Israel simply not annex the west bank, the Knesset voted to annex the west bank while JD Vance was in Israel. So I don't know. I mean I actually love Pierce that at this point when we do these panels, the first question that you asked the pro Israel guest is just, you can't defend this. Right?

A (11:17)

Well, to be fair to Jonathan though, but I would say the reason I like having Jonathan, but the reason I like Jonathan coming on uncensored, I do think he's been far more intellectually honest about some of these issues than many other people on the Israeli side. He's not afraid to say when he thinks things are wrong. You may not agree with a lot of the things he defends, but he's not afraid to be critical. Many of the others are blind on both sides by the way, can be blindly non critical of whatever their side does.

B (11:46)

Well, let me in that spirit, Pierce, I will say, and I do, I appreciate Jonathan acknowledging what he did up front there. But I would say just maybe something we all could agree on, the idea that Netanyahu has put it's obviously very self serving, but the idea that Netanyahu saying well you have to pardon me because that's what's best for national unity, you know, that's how we move on from these divisive times. I could say as an American, I remember Barack Obama, as I'm sure you remember Pierce, making this exact pitch about not prosecuting Bush administration officials for war crimes. There was a lot of pressure on Barack Obama from his left wing activist base when he first got elected and took office in 2009 to prosecute some of the war crimes that had clearly happened, clearly been committed by the Bush administration. Torture and lying us into war, all types of stuff. He said, no, we're not going to do that because we have to move on because that's what's best for national unity and how has that worked out for us, Piers? We entered into the most divisive times, certainly in my lifetime, I think undeniably in modern American history. And I would just say that if you ever want to see national unity or if you ever wanna see times of political divisiveness come to an end, the only answer is to hold criminals in government accountable. That's what. Actually.

A (13:03)

I would ban the pardon system in America. Apart from where there is a clear and egregious and provable miscarriage of justice, I would just ban it. I think the moment that you can basically pardon, if you're in office, anyone on your side who's done anything that is, in a way, it's an endorsement of crime. Right. I just don't understand why people think that is a good system. And it gets abused by the left, it gets abused by the right, it gets abused by everyone, understandably. I want to just switch, Jonathan, to this appalling video that emerged from the west bank of Israeli security forces shooting dead two Palestinians who, it appeared from the video that's come out, come out and they pull up their shirts to show that they are not carrying weapons. They put their arms in the air to surrender. This was during an ongoing Israeli military operation in the city of Adjenin. And you can quite clearly see them surrendering. Then you see the Israeli security forces pushing them or urging them to go back inside. And the moment they're inside, they get shot dead, executed. Now, just on the face of it, this seems like a prima facie war crime. If you have people surrendering like that and you then shoot them dead, that is an illegal execution, isn't it?

C (14:32)

Yeah. So if the video is unedited, which I believe that, that it is, and I don't have any evidence to suggest that it has been edited. And I take it at face value. And if indeed what we see in the video happened, then it is a dramatic deviation from anything that is acceptable in the idf, in combat activity or otherwise. And what currently is going on in Israel is that this is being investigated by the highest levels. The Israeli chief of Staff, the commander in chief of the Israeli military, General Zamir, just put out a statement after having visited the place himself. This is just a few minutes ago. It's out on Israeli media and I'm sure you'll see it soon on international media, where he says that by initial assessment.

C (15:29)

It raises significant questions and that this needs to be investigated deeply. And if there indeed was, if this appears to be true, then there need to be consequences and there will be consequences. Now, what's going on is that there's an investigation. The troops who are involved here are actually part of the police. They're a police special counterterrorism unit that operates under the military in military operations in Judea and Samaria fighting Palestinian terrorists. The raid, or the activity specifically here, was many hours of hunting down terrorists that were planning attacks. And one of them had executed attacks against Israeli civilians. And they finally surrendered after they understood that they couldn't fight anymore. And then this allegedly happened. I don't like it at all. If it is indeed what happened, then I think there should be drastic measures against those involved. But this type of behavior cannot be condoned. And I'll remind everybody that we've had similar but different instances in the past. In 2015 or 16, I believe it was an Israeli soldier wrongfully shot, illegally shot, a Palestinian terrorist who had tried to attack Israeli troops that was also caught on camera. And that soldier was investigated, stripped of his ranks and thrown into military jail.

A (16:59)

Have any of them.

C (17:00)

Jonathan, it was a political debate.

A (17:02)

Look, again, I admire your candor about this, and I'm glad you say what you've said, but two observations I would make. One is that the IDF actual spokesman, Lt. Col. Nadav Shoshani, said shots have been directed toward the two men as they exited a building. Now, we can all see that is not what happened. So that's a lie. So you've got an IDS spokesperson on the record. Lying about what?

C (17:28)

How is that a lie, Piers?

A (17:29)

Because they were not shot as they exited a building. They'd been shoved back under the building by the Israeli.

B (17:37)

It's a pretty big. Pretty big omission.

A (17:39)

Yeah.

A (17:42)

Yeah, they came out. They came out and surrendered them and then were pushed back in and then executed. They weren't shot as they exited the building. And the second thing I would say is you've got our old friend Ben gvir, a national security minister, who gave his full backing to the officers involved, saying terrorists must die. And Dave Smith, I'll bring you in here. Right here, you've got two of the biggest problems in this whole war. One is that we only know about this because it was caught on camera. And it begs the question, how many more incidents like this have been going on that we don't know about? Once again, I remind people. And Jonathan, I know you agree with me about this. It is outrageous that the international media remain banned from the ground in Gaza where they could verify what's been going on there, even though we're seven weeks into A ceasefire, albeit one which has continued to have a lot of violence within it. But it is a ceasefire. And you still won't let the journalists in. I think it's outrageous that the Israeli government continues that ban, so you can't verify what's going on. But again, this only came to our light because of a video that was taken. And then you have people like Ben GVIR and Smodrich who don't give a damn. They would happily see all the Palestinians out of there. That's what their stated mission is.

B (19:01)

Yes.

A (19:01)

And the question then becomes how much of their stated mission, which everyone on the Israeli side was always tries to downplay. They're not that important. They're not this. Well, they're senior members of the government. And I think Netanyahu only got back into power by jumping into bed with these people. And I think he's been pushed ever more to the right in terms of his outlook on this. So you've got all this going on as the backdrop to this. What do you think about this video and what it represents?

B (19:28)

Yeah, well, that's right. I mean, I think you hit a lot of it. Exactly right, Pierce. Which is that right? Look, it's not just that the incident happened, which is horrible enough, but then the way that IDF spokesmen and the highest ministers in the government just lie through their freaking teeth about it like it's. They've been caught so many times, Pierce. And you're absolutely right. There's a whole lot we don't know about. And I think when you won't let the media in, it reasonably leads to a presumption of guilt. The presumption is that you're trying to hide a lot of things. But just look at what we do know, Pierce. We know that there's been multiple doctors in Gaza who have reported that toddlers have been used as target practice. We know that the IDF has admitted multiple IDF soldiers and the Israel government has admitted that they were firing live rounds into sites where people were desperately trying to get a little bit of food. Hundreds of Palestinians have been killed in this way. We know about the Where's Daddy? Program. We know about all types of, like, indiscriminate killing of innocent civilians, and every single time, they lie through their teeth about it. And so I'm sorry, Jonathan can phrase this as like, that's not the idf. People should be held responsible. There's an international. Yeah, well, it seems to really often be exactly what the IDF does, and nobody ever seems to be held responsible.

A (20:43)

I mean, it's very hard. Jonathan. Jonathan it is very hard to maintain a position that the IDF and these security forces were operating, as you say, under their command, that the IDF is the most moral army in the world. When you see them literally breaching the Geneva Convention on tape, you see them executing people who have just surrendered. That is a breach of the Geneva Convention specifically set up to prevent these kind of crimes.

A (21:11)

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C (23:03)

Piers, I think you know a moment of honesty here if we all may.

C (23:10)

It is actually quite tremendous. You know the level of scrutiny of the IDF and of Israel of Prime Minister, which I'm not here to defend but I am speaking on behalf of my country in a sense I think that you know the level of interest, scrutiny and alleged focus and care about what happens. It is mind boggling to see how much people allegedly care when it comes to dealing with issues that are related to Israel. And I think that one, you know, there's merits to what you've been saying. And of course seeing a video like this, it looks horrible. And that is what I said. What I said and I believe in it. And I also believe that just like in the past, the name of that soldier was Elor Azaria. You can check it up. What happened to him, how the IDF dealt with the issue, internal pressures, political pressures that by the way, weren't very unsimilar to the current situation that the IDF is dealing with a complex political environment where everything is sensitive, where it is Israel fighting against terrorist organizations and where we have politics that are involved in fighting. But at the end of a long process and public debate, that soldier was held accountable for his deeds. And I believe that if these policemen are indeed at fault, which the video looks like they were, but we shouldn't be hasty in delivering a sentence here, then they will too face justice and they will face consequences in no other problem.

C (24:46)

When you fight.

A (24:47)

But I know what you're going to.

C (24:49)

Say when you fight.

A (24:50)

Let me just say this, here's the problem.

C (24:51)

Yeah, but I mean, let me say it. You know, when you look at the amount of engagement, the amount of attacks, the amount of activity that Israel is forced to do every day and every night in order to defend itself, a very small percentage of activity doesn't go exactly as it is supposed to.

A (25:11)

Hang on. But I just got your word. Jonathan, Jonathan, Jonathan, hang on. We just have your word for that. Because the Israeli government continues to ban all international journalists even though there's been a ceasefire for nearly two months.

C (25:25)

So the true either Pierce, and you know it, there's been more than 60 journalists inside Gaza since the.

C (25:32)

People have gone in.

A (25:33)

There are people from Israeli government friendly media taken in embedded and they do.

C (25:38)

International journalists really well.

A (25:40)

Why is National Journal.

C (25:41)

Well, Clarissa Ward six zero crews have gone in cnn.

A (25:47)

Okay, well, Clarissa Ward, I'm glad you mentioned cnn. Clarissa Ward is one of the top people at cnn, one of their top international journalists. She said this is your scheduled reminder. She posted today that international journalists are still not allowed to report freely and independently inside Gaza. We're more than seven weeks into this ceasefire. The previous excuse given by Israeli authorities for the banning of journalists was. It was a security consideration which was seen by many as a smokescreen as articulated by the Committee to Protect Journalists. For two years, Israel sought to control the narrative on Gaza with a range of measures that are unprecedented compared to any war in modern memory, said CBG CPJ CEO Jodi Ginsburg. This includes targeted killings of Palestinian journalists, attacks on media facilities, the banning of news outlets, and.

A (26:36)

The prohibition on independent media access. With a ceasefire now in place, Israel cannot be allowed to normalize this unlawful behavior. And yet here we are. She says on Monday, December 1, an international journalist still cannot report freely and independently inside Gaza. And the problem is, Jonathan, and I know you agree with what I've said about this before. The problem is.

C (26:58)

Yeah, but let me.

A (26:58)

The problem is, it leaves us. We have to then take your word for it about how the IDF has operated, because we can't get independent word for it. Only when these videos come out that it looks like actually they're not the most moral army in the world at all.

C (27:15)

Piers, that Clarissa Ward that you're quoting and singing her praise is the same Clarissa Ward that I remember shooting a selfie video with big crocodile tears over a Palestinian journalist.

A (27:31)

She got duped.

C (27:31)

Who, in fact, I forgot his name. Yeah, well, no, she didn't get duped, and I don't think she did. And I don't think that she did. Owned up to her mistake.

A (27:40)

She made a mistake and she did.

C (27:41)

She owned up to her mistake. She owned up to it and say, oh, I called this Palestinian terrorist a journalist and I sang his praise when in fact, he was unknown.

A (27:51)

They made no pretense that it was a mistake and they got duped. But she remains one of the outstanding foreign correspondents of her entire era.

C (28:02)

So to question her word, she remains is someone who has clearly shown her bias, clearly shown her personal.

C (28:12)

The Israeli conflict? Well, did she do a fancy video saying, I got duped and I said something that was wrong and I misled my millions of followers on Instagram? I don't think she did. I think I would have seen that video if she would have, but she didn't, which shows you exactly a type of bias that Israel deals with.

A (28:33)

All right, let me bring in Dave. Let me bring in Dave.

C (28:35)

Bias and double standards like no other country present, people included.

A (28:40)

All right, Dave.

B (28:41)

Okay, let me just respond to a bunch of stuff that you've said there. And you called for a moment of honesty here, which I think I'm honest every time I'm on this show. But in the spirit of this moment of honesty, let me just be honest with you, okay? This tactic that you just use, that we all just witnessed, where first you're saying we have let the Media and I don't know what you're talking about. 60 different crews have been let in. And then Pierce shows you a CNN foreign correspondent saying, let me just finish my point here. Then he shows you a CNN foreign correspondent saying, hey, we're not allowed in. And then you immediately turn to a character attack on her. You immediately turn to, oh, she's a bad person. You see, she's sympathetic to Hamas or hates the Jews or something like that. People are onto that and they're over it. Let me give you some more honest information here for you. I'm an American, just like you said. You're defending your country, Israel. I'm an American. Your country is on my country's welfare. We have financed and, and given you the weapons and the diplomatic cover and the literal protection and vetoed the resolutions at the un. We have protected and propped up Israel. And you have a lot of nerve to turn around and then say that we scrutinize what you do too much. I am forced against my will to pay for destruction of Gaza, to pay for the military occupation of Palestine. And yeah, when I see videos of the military occupators. Military occupiers murdering a couple of surrendering people, yeah, I'm going to scrutinize that. I'm going to have an opinion on that. And it's just absolutely outrageous that you guys sit here when the whole world.

C (30:13)

The whole world is watching.

B (30:14)

Sir, let me be honest with you. When the whole world sees you describe the IDF as fighting terrorism, we're all going. I don't know how dumb you think we are. The idf, you were a spokesman for the biggest terrorist organization in the region, objectively the worst. And it's a region full of terrorist organizations. The IDF is the worst.

C (30:36)

The moment. I mean, you had my ear and attention and a bit of my respect until you said that nonsense.

B (30:42)

I don't care about your entitled to.

C (30:44)

That's fine.

B (30:45)

You're a spokesman for a terrorist organization. I don't care about your responsibility.

C (30:49)

You're entitled to your opinion. Sitting in your comfortable office in New York or wherever, you're entitled to have your feelings and opinions. The fact that you have them doesn't make it right. And the fact that you call the military of a nation state a terrorist organization, I think shows how ungrounded you are. And frankly, it's ridiculous. You just said a bunch of nothing about.

B (31:14)

You might as well have just been quiet for 30 seconds. I said you're comfortable in New York City. Specifically what I said government is a terrorist. Organization.

C (31:23)

I said what I said about Clarissa because I think it is very relevant when people who are. When people who have the role and the power as the main conduits of information that shape hearts and minds and that really tell the story of what's going on, allegedly what's going on in Gaza when they are shown and exposed to have a very clear anti Israeli bias. Yes, that is part of the story.

B (31:49)

That needs to be in a story.

C (31:51)

People should know about that because I think, no, it isn't only that. And again, had it only been getting a story wrong and owning up to the mistake and saying, well, I sure got this story wrong and maybe I should look at the other stories I got wrong, then I wouldn't have mentioned it. But I mention it because I think it is part of the issue. The level of scrutiny that Israel is under by so called journalists who are basically opinion people that have big accounts on Instagram and corporate funding in terms of networks is unprecedented.

A (32:27)

Clarissa Ward is absolutely. Listen, Jonathan, I will defend Clarissa Ward. She is not, as you're categorizing her, they got duped and CNN conceded they got duped. Right. It was an elaborate sting to this guy to pretend to be somebody who wasn't. And they got duped. It happens in news. And CNN immediately held their hands up and said when they investigated, we got duped. But when it comes to investigations, I'm glad you raised that because there have been myriad investigations launched by the idf, launched by the Israeli government into allegations against the IDF and you know, the almost universal common denominator. We never get to hear what happens to them. We never get told the findings of all these investigations. I read out dozens of them a few months ago. Unresolved. It's just we're investigating and then they just hope everybody moves on and that.

B (33:23)

Did you read, Pierce? Did you see on Friday, did you see the UN Committee on torture on Friday just released a new report saying there's widespread torture of Palestinians. Hundreds of them have died from torture the last couple years. There's widespread. Like what are we even talking about?

A (33:38)

I'm just saying there's. No, there is.

B (33:40)

Israel's under too much scrutiny.

A (33:42)

Yeah.

B (33:42)

The reason Israel's putting people to death.

A (33:44)

Well, the reason, Jonathan, that Israel is under so much scrutiny is precisely because it goes out of its way to avoid scrutiny. Right. It literally bans.

C (33:53)

I don't think that's the reason. If you're honest, I don't think that's the reason at all.

A (33:58)

Well, let the journalists in. Let the journalists Into Gaza. There's a ceasefire.

C (34:02)

That is the reason there's a ceasefire.

A (34:05)

But Jonathan, the bullshit. Excuse me, excuse that. It's for the journalists own safety, which was always bullshit, because they've all reported from all sorts of war zones and here I agree with you, Clarissa, who's.

C (34:14)

A very, very creative journalist and we've spoken about it a lot.

A (34:17)

Let them go in and do their jobs.

C (34:19)

Yep, I agree.

A (34:21)

And we agree.

C (34:21)

I agree.

A (34:22)

That's why you get.

C (34:23)

A long time ago. No, that isn't why we get. That isn't why. International network peers. That isn't why international networks have their biggest out of London or out of US offices in Jerusalem, out of all places in the world. That isn't why the amount of international journalists per people here is the highest ratio in the world. That isn't why news editions around the world and Internet and TV and shows like yours have such a tremendous focus on Israel. It isn't because Israel tries to evade scrutiny. It has to be different things. It goes back to. It is rooted in history. It is rooted in the land that we're in. It's probably related to that old hatred against my people and many other things, but at the end of day, well, that's the solution.

A (35:14)

Can I respond to Pierce, please, Dave? Dave, I will let him come in, but I'm going to give it a peg to come in because actually you've perfectly timed that, Jonathan, where you try and conflate scrutiny of the Israeli government and criticism of the Israeli government with people hating Israelis or hating Jews. Because the anti Semite of the Year nominees have just been revealed.

A (35:39)

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A (36:32)

What's quite interesting about this list is organized by the Stop antisemitism Watchdog is just the ones that I know who've come on this show. Tucker Carlson, Cenk Yuga, Anna Kasparian. Just those three alone. I've never heard them express their hatred for Jewish people. Why would they be branded anti Semitic even if they've been aggressively critical of the Israeli government? Now, Dave, I'll let you respond to that because it really flies to the ongoing running sore I have about this cuz I get branded anti Semitic purely cuz I criticize Netanyahu's decision making, which I think is completely outrageous. But it's done.

C (37:17)

It's all.

A (37:17)

They have legitimate debate.

B (37:18)

It's so. It's so pathetic, man. It's like. Like you. I think the list there. I think those are the three people I know on it too are Jake, Anna and Tucker. And it's just out. No, they're not anti Semites at all. They've never once said anything about the Jews. They've all bent over backwards to say that's not what I'm about. Ms. Rachel, as far as I understand, just makes little kids like programming and feels bad for the Palestinians. It's. It's insane that they go after her. But. But to Jonathan's point, even when he tied this together. Look, Pierce, like, just look at these facts objectively, okay? Like I'm trying to remove my opinion from it as much as possible. Over the last two years, Israel has essentially destroyed all of Gaza. They've expanded settlements on the west bank in their occupied territory under their military occupation there. And a bunch of people have been killed over there, despite what Dave Rubin doesn't know about anything. Pierce, you are absolutely correct. There have been settlement expansions. Israel has also bomb Yemen, Lebanon, Syria and Iran. I think I'm missing one. I think there was a seventh over the last two years. Might that be why there is some scrutiny on them? Pierce, maybe everyone's hated by.

B (38:29)

Okay, fine.

C (38:30)

Might there be a reason why Israel.

B (38:31)

Bombed and did anybody remove my. One second, Jonathan. I was trying to remove my own opinion and just state the objective facts. We could have that whole argument. The point is there is another reason than just every. You're talking here with Piers Morgan isn't a Jew hater and me who is Jewish. And you're invoking anti Semitism whenever Israel gets criticism. Maybe it's just that you guys are a rogue regime that's killing tens of thousands of people and violating international law and also attempting to drag my country into more and More conflicts, exerting an undue amount of influence on my government. Maybe that's what's going on. And maybe you should admit this. You know, it's like you're like the person who's like a serial gambler and then says the reason I'm losing everything is cuz everyone's against me. Look at your own behavior, man.

C (39:19)

Jonathan so I'll say this, the only thing that you know is worth of I think having a debate here is what you said about your country, the US and the relationship with Israel. And I think that's an interesting point to look into. And I would say almost the opposite. I think that Israel is, as of 1967, when Israel started winning and defeating enemies very gloriously on the battlefield. That is when the US said, hey, I like these tough guys in the Middle East. I'm going to give you weapons and I'm going to give you diplomatic support and I'm sure that I won't be telling you any news. But that wasn't the case when Israel was founded in 48. Up until 67 we had scrap leftover weapons that we bought secondhand from the Second World War in Czechoslovakia and we got French weapons, some of it we manufactured by ourselves. And we had all British and American tank surplus from the Second World War fighting against advanced Russian weapons. But when we started winning, the US said, oh, we like those guys in the Middle east, maybe they could be useful for us. And in as much as lots of people like to spin that tired trope against Israel as if the dog, as if the tail is wagging the dog, it is exactly the other way around. Israel is a. You could look at it from external perspectives and if you'd speak with Arabs, you'd probably get that point of view. Israel is like a little aircraft carrier, an American unsinkable aircraft carrier that is advancing America's goals in the Middle east and doing most, but if not all of the heavy lifting. Yes, we get American support, yes we get and buy American weapons, yes, we get American air cover in a hostile UN Security Council. But what we're doing is defending ourselves and doing very useful things for US Foreign policy. If you don't like the US foreign policy, then you as an American can vote differently and you can have other people with other ideas in power. But as long as Biden really can't talk for Israel is all right.

A (41:31)

But just to be.

C (41:32)

Actually you can all right, the bottom line here is Jonathan, what Israel is doing is actually.

A (41:39)

Jonathan, Jonathan.

C (41:41)

Just for the record, Jonathan, that said.

A (41:43)

Just for the record, Jonathan, can you just clarify that you do not think either Dave Smith or me are anti Semites?

C (41:53)

Definitely. If you're a Jew, it's difficult to be anti Semite and I personally don't think that you are an antisemite and I will say that you have had a truckload of antisemites on your show. And I would say that there is a definite dealing with anti Semitic tropes on this show. And I think it is very, it's very interesting for people. It sells, it gets views, it gets clicks and that.

A (42:17)

But you know what's interesting, Jonathan?

C (42:18)

Rage baiting as well.

A (42:20)

What's interesting is the Palestinian side say exactly the same thing about many of the pro Israeli guests I've had. And that right there is the real issue is I platform people from both sides who have passionate views and the other side views.

C (42:36)

I would love to debate pales Palestinians on your show.

A (42:39)

Yeah. But the other side views many on the pro Israeli side as extremists and in some cases with good reason. So you know, you gotta be careful how you frame these things. Like this show, this show, I would say the prime Minister of Israel. Of all the shows in the world, I've had the most balanced debates on this. And for that I get it from all sides. And you know what? I wouldn't have it any other way. Jonathan, Dave, great to see you both. Thank you very much.

B (43:05)

Thanks Piers.

C (43:07)

Thank you.

A (43:09)

Piers Morgan, unsensed that he's proudly independent. The only boss around here is me. You enjoy our show. We ask for only one simple thing. Hit subscribe on YouTube and follow Piers Morgan uncensored on Spotify and Apple podcasts. And in return we will continue our mission to inform, irritate and entertain and we'll do it all for free. Independent uncensored media has never been more critical and we couldn't do it without you.