“You’re UNHINGED!” Tommy Robinson Unite The Kingdom Rally ENRAGES Piers Morgan Panel

Summary

Podcast Summary: “You’re UNHINGED!” Tommy Robinson Unite The Kingdom Rally ENRAGES Piers Morgan Panel

Podcast: Piers Morgan Uncensored
Date: May 12, 2026

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Episode Overview

This explosive episode of Piers Morgan Uncensored centers on two imminent, polarized rallies in London: Tommy Robinson's "Unite the Kingdom" march and the March for Palestine. The discussion is fiery, with Piers Morgan moderating as ideologies clash on immigration, race, national identity, free speech, and crime. The panel includes Andrew Wilson (host of Crucible), Eva Santini (Politics editor), Joe Green (party activist), Ashok Kumar (Birkbeck professor), Ben Habib (Advance UK leader), and Gavin McInnes (Vice Media/Proud Boys co-founder).

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Polarizing Rallies and the State of Britain

• Two Major Protests:
  The upcoming Tommy Robinson rally is framed as a "fight for national identity," while the March for Palestine opposes what it calls racism and supports Palestinian rights.
  Piers Morgan:

  “It’s an extreme representation of growing division in the country which feels like it’s becoming more extreme.” (01:25)

• Rise of Populism:
  Discussion highlights historic gains by both Reform (right) and the Green Party (left) in recent elections, marking a shift away from the political center.

• Foreign Focus of Both Camps:
  Both marches draw international attention, with MAGA figures backing Robinson and American commentary on UK issues, as well as British critics of Israel.

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2. Free Speech, Protest, and "Extremism"

• Right to Protest:
  Eva Santini defends the right to protest by either side, stating:

  "If you want to turn up and make a fool of yourself and spout racist nonsense, then that is your right to do so because we live in a democratic society..." (03:55)

• Police Response:
  Santini also draws attention to violence at Robinson rallies:

  “Just last September there were 20 officers who were injured because people were throwing bottles at them… It doesn’t really seem very patriotic to me.” (04:26)

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3. Immigration, Assimilation, and Muslim Communities

• Calls for Exclusion:
  Andrew Wilson repeatedly calls for stopping Muslim immigration, going so far as to advocate removing the "Muslim element" (00:19, 05:52).

  Andrew Wilson: “I think that they need to remove the Muslim element from the UK altogether… That’s correct.” (00:19/05:52)

• Panel Pushback:
  Both Piers Morgan and Eva Santini challenge Wilson’s claims, citing the diversity and integration in London, demystifying the "Muslim takeover" narrative:

  Eva Santini: “I live in London. It’s not a reality.” (07:20)

  Piers Morgan: “I see one of the most vibrant, dynamic cities in the world.” (09:29)

• New vs. Old London:
  The discussion about London’s changing demographics is constant, with statements like:

  Gavin McInnes: “London isn't Britain anymore. It’s gone.” (09:14)
  Joe Green: “This bizarre obsession Americans have with London and saying it’s overrun with Muslims is because America has a history of Jim Crow segregation, the ghetto. Something Britain hasn't experienced.” (18:02)

• Ben Habib’s Contradictions:
  Habib, himself of Pakistani descent, criticizes non-“homegrown” cultures, leading to back-and-forth about whether he’s being hypocritical.

  Piers Morgan: “So none of your family are homegrown.” (20:04)
  Ben Habib: “We need cultural assimilation. We need homegrown—was your phrase, not mine.” (20:30)

• Definition of "Homegrown" and Assimilation:
  After replaying a clip, Piers presses Habib, highlighting inconsistency:

  “You said homegrown.” (27:46)
  Ben Habib: “The cultures are not homegrown... I did not use it in a racist sense.” (27:38)

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4. Tommy Robinson’s Credibility & Criminal History

• American Perceptions vs. UK Reality:
  Piers accuses American conservatives of idolizing Robinson despite his criminal background and factually incorrect portrayal of the UK:

  “You are all being completely duped by Tommy Robinson. …I can tell you if you walk through London, any part of London, you’re not getting a sense of it being overrun by anybody. London is a great, vibrant city.” (26:25/33:47)

• Panel Disagreement on Jailings:
  Habib and McInnes defend Robinson, claiming his prison sentences are political; Piers disputes this with examples (12:29-13:43, 14:02-14:30).

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5. Crime, Statistics & Rhetoric

• Debate on Crime Rates:
  The panel spars over crime statistics, particularly regarding Muslims and sexual crimes. Piers counters Robinson’s narrative by providing actual arrest rates:

  “Black, 19 arrests per thousand people. White, 10 arrests per thousand people. Asian, 9 arrests per thousand.” (40:07)

• Selective Focus:
  Piers highlights Robinson’s focus on crimes by Muslims, not others:

  “If you read Tommy Robinson’s X feed, you will never see anything about white males committing crimes.” (47:27)
  Andrew Wilson: “Because he’s focused on the thing he’s trying to pay attention to.” (47:39)

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6. Moral Outrage, Accusations & Explosive Moments

• Racism & Bigotry:
  Multiple incendiary remarks, especially from Gavin McInnes, including:

  “If you don’t think that Britain has a Muslim problem you’re an elite and you don’t know working class people…” (00:31/07:44/24:47)
  “London is not British anymore.” (34:24)

• Exchange of Insults:

  • Gavin calls Eva a "dumb bitch," then apologizes after being pressed by Piers (26:06-26:12).
  • Piers calls Gavin "unhinged" after his heated accusations about the panel condoning child abuse:

    “You sound completely unhinged. Ironically, that’s what May 16 is about. You sound unhinged.” (41:53)

• Child Sexual Abuse Scandal:
  Heavy, emotional arguments about the grooming gang scandals, with Santini and Green providing nuance, and an acknowledgment that institutional failures were partly about not wanting to be seen as racist.

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7. Institutional Racism & Social Integration

• Institutional Failings:
  Both Ben Habib and Eva Santini agree that authorities failed to tackle grooming gangs due to fears of accusations of racism (44:54-45:19).

• Assimilation & National Identity:
  Ben Habib repeatedly advocates for “cultural homogeneity,” despite his own background, leading to accusations of hypocrisy.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Eva Santini:

  “If you want to turn up and make a fool of yourself and spout racist nonsense, then that is your right to do so because we live in a democratic society.” (03:55)

• Andrew Wilson:

  “I think that they need to remove the Muslim element from the UK altogether.” (00:19/05:52)

• Piers Morgan:

  “London is a great, vibrant city.” (33:47)
  “You sound completely unhinged.” (41:53)

• Gavin McInnes:

  "You have not been to Luton if you think it exists today. It is a fifth post. It is a Muslim city. It is over. It's gone." (25:07)

• Ben Habib:

  “What we need in this country is a reversal of mass migration. And we need British culture, including our Christian, constitutional and cultural roots, to be put first.” (21:42)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Introduction & Rallies: 00:00–03:39
• Free Speech & Protest Rights: 03:39–05:49
• Immigration and “Muslim Element” Debate: 05:49–09:29
• London’s Identity, Demographic Change: 09:29–12:29
• Tommy Robinson's Criminal Record: 12:29–15:16
• Debate Over 'Homegrown' Cultures: 18:02–22:03
• Crime, Assimilation, “Barbarian” Remarks: 29:34–31:58
• Crime Statistics (per-capita, ethnicity): 40:03–41:34
• Panel Arguments About Child Abuse/Grooming Gangs: 41:34–45:12
• Institutional Fear of Racism: 45:12–46:11
• Closing Exchange: 47:27–50:01

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Panel Members

• Piers Morgan: Host, combative, challenges panelists, pushes for evidence
• Andrew Wilson: Host of Crucible, far-right, anti-immigration
• Eva Santini: Defends free speech, critical of Robinson's methods, nuanced on institutional issues
• Joe Green: Defends London, opposes simplistic narratives
• Gavin McInnes: Provocative, antagonistic, repeatedly refers to “Muslim problem”, uses coarse language
• Ben Habib: Nationalist, advocates for homogeneity, accused of hypocrisy due to his own heritage

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Conclusion

This episode is a no-holds-barred confrontation over national identity, race, and protest in Britain’s charged political landscape. The mood is combative and at times deeply personal, illuminating the broader cultural war raging in British—and global—politics. Piers maintains focus on facts and accuses both sides of distorting realities for political gain, but tempers run high and honesty about emotions and fears lays bare the divisions at the heart of the debate.

Transcript

[Piers Morgan]

All guns blazing, ready for next Saturday. Seven days to go. And then the stress can end the credibility of Tommy Robinson and the damage that he does in America about the

[Host/Moderator]

reputation of this country and London all

[Piers Morgan]

being overrun by Muslims and everyone swallows it in America.

[Andrew Wilson]

I'm fully 100% behind these rallies. I think that they need to remove the Muslim element from the UK altogether.

[Advertisement Voice]

Remove the Muslim element.

[Andrew Wilson]

That's what I would advocate for. That's correct.

[Gavin McInnes]

If you don't think that Britain has a Muslim problem today you're an elite and you don't travel and you don't know working class people and you've never been.

[Piers Morgan]

You've no idea who I hang out with. You've got a clue, man.

[Gavin McInnes]

Go there. Use your eyeballs.

[Ben Habib]

What we've got in the United Kingdom is lots of different cultures imported into this country, not homegrown.

[Piers Morgan]

Ben, am I right in thinking that all your family then were all homegrown, going back centuries?

[Ben Habib]

No, I'm not suggesting that.

[Piers Morgan]

From where were they from?

[Ben Habib]

My father's Pakistani, my mother is English.

[Piers Morgan]

So none of your family are home.

[Gavin McInnes]

Why are me.

[Joe Green]

And then apparently they were compatible with. I feel like I want to fight, Ben. Right now.

[Ben Habib]

Sod off.

[Host/Moderator]

Two massive rallies will take place just one mile apart in London this weekend. In all senses other than geography, they couldn't be further apart. Tommy Robinson's Unite the Kingdom march is, he says, a fight for national identity. The march for Palestine, the other hand, says it's fighting racism on the far right.

[Piers Morgan]

It's an extreme representation of growing division in the country with which feels like it's becoming more extreme. The two big winners in last week's

[Host/Moderator]

regional elections here were populists on the far right and far left. Nigel Farage's reform made historic gains, but so did the Green Party, which doesn't talk much about the environment anymore, but has allowed his voice against what it calls Israeli apartheid and genocide. Several Green candidates were suspended for spreading anti Semitic conspiracy theories. A victorious reform candidate said Nigerians should be melted down to fill potholes. Both parties nonetheless deliver such a crushing blow to the Prime Minister that he might not survive. And both parties will be very well represented at the two competing rallies on Saturday. Previous post Palestine rallies have resulted controversially in hundreds of arrests. This time the Prime Minister's focus appears to be on the other side.

[Piers Morgan]

And you'll see it again on Saturday at a march designed to confront and intimidate this diversity of and this diverse country. That is why this Labour government will block far right agitators.

[Gavin McInnes]

From traveling to Britain for that event

[Piers Morgan]

because we will not allow people to come to the UK to threaten our communities and spread hate on our streets.

[Host/Moderator]

Well, Tony Robinson spent months courting support from many MAGA organisers and influencers, as well as making high profile trips to Israel. Broadcaster Glenn Beck will be joining the rally, while others, including Colombian racist Valentina Gomez, have been denied entry. You might ask why on both sides of this apparent battle for the soul of Britain, there's such a fixation on everywhere other than Britain, from the Brits marching against Israel to the Israel backing Americans telling us how to be British.

[Piers Morgan]

That's always been my suspicion about extremes.

[Host/Moderator]

Whatever side they're on, they say they're fighting for your interests, but they're often fighting somebody else's. Here to debate, this is the host of Crucible, Andrew Wilson, Eva Santini, the political editor at Politics, Joe Green, party activist and Birkbeck University associate professor Ashok Kumar and Ben Habib, leader of Farage's rival Advance uk and the co founder of Vice Media and the proud boys, Gavin McInnes.

[Piers Morgan]

All right, well, welcome to you. It's certainly a perfect panel to debate all this. Ava Santini, There are these two marches,

[Host/Moderator]

I believe, fundamentally you in free speech. That includes the right to peacefully protest and to peacefully march and protest if you see fit. Do you have an intrinsic problem with the Tommy Robinson Unite for the Kingdom march?

[Eva Santini]

I'm going to surprise you and say no. I am actually very pro protest and I think that any protest that people would like to hold, I do think should be granted in the United Kingdom. If you want to turn up and make a fool of yourself and spout racist nonsense, then that is your right to do so because we live in a democratic society and a country that does allow that. I'm actually really interested in something you brought up in your introduction there, Piers, because you talked about the number of arrests that had allegedly happened at a March for Palestine rally. Actually, if you look at the Tommy Robinson rallies over the last couple of years, there have been a whole number of arrests. Just last September there were 20 officers who were injured because people were throwing bottles at them. There was an officer with a broken nose. I mean, can you imagine that smashing up a policeman's nose? It doesn't really seem very patriotic to me. But again, if they want to be idiotic and act like that, then fine,

[Piers Morgan]

it's not my fault.

[Host/Moderator]

And to be clear, on the Palestine march, should anybody have a banner saying or a chant that says Globalize Intifada, for example, what would you feel about that?

[Eva Santini]

I'm not a theologian, so it's not something that I can really speak to. I understand that the Jewish community have expressed upset when that phrase is being chanted. I actually think there are much bigger things to worry about on those marches at times. I think there have been a couple of people who have showed some anti Semitic tropes and actually, thankfully the March for Palestine group have kicked those people out and have been very forceful about them not attending.

[Piers Morgan]

But that phrase, a globalizing default, I

[Eva Santini]

have to say, I think we get really distracted by this phrase. You know, people who go on these marches are not going on these marches because they don't like Jewish people or because they do actually want to see, I don't know, an Islamic regime in the United Kingdom or whatever ridiculousness the right wing are peddling now in this country. They go because they do not like British taxpayer money being spent on bombs that are being sent to Gaza and potentially killing children. That's what they don't like. And that's where our focus should be.

[Host/Moderator]

Okay, Andrew Wilson, your response to that?

[Andrew Wilson]

Well, that's not really true. They're not. It is true in a sense that they are anti Israel and anti what's going on, on, you know, with Gaza and all that. But they're not really turning out for that reason in the uk they're turning out because they're saying that the other side is racist. They're saying that Tommy Robinson's protest is a bunch of racist. I mean, you can, you can read article after article of the opposition saying this. So I'm, I'm fully 100% behind these, these rallies. I think that they need to remove, I mean, remove them, remove the, the Muslim element from the UK altogether. That's what I would advocate for. That's correct. What are you talking about, remove the Muslim element? It means no more mass migration from Muslim nations to the UK that's insane.

[Host/Moderator]

But we have about 5 million Muslims in the UK. What would you do with them?

[Andrew Wilson]

Well, the ones that are there you can't do very much about. But you can't do something about continuing the immigration policies. It's suicidal empathy. You don't need to do it.

[Piers Morgan]

Just to be clear, Angie, you wouldn't let any Muslims into the country.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah, well, people have a right. They have an autonomous right to determine who comes into their nation and who doesn't. If the people of the nation don't want a people group to come into their nation, that is their right. Just like it's the right of people in Muslim nations to make those determinations for themselves as well.

[Eva Santini]

I just find that whole thing totally ludicrous. I mean, if you knew anything about net migration to the United Kingdom, it doesn't come from, quote unquote, Muslim countries. There are not Muslim people who are breaking into the country and trying to turn it into, I don't know, some sort of Islamic state. Like, it's simply not happening here. And I really worry about the sort of talking points that you are spouting and potentially you are reading. I mean, I live in London. It's not a reality.

[Gavin McInnes]

Who's your mayor in London?

[Andrew Wilson]

What's actually inclusive about.

[Eva Santini]

And what about him?

[Gavin McInnes]

Let's get some more of your leaders.

[Piers Morgan]

Gavin, I will come to you.

[Andrew Wilson]

I just want to know what's actually incorrect about me saying if the people of the UK do not want any more migration of Muslim immigrants into their nation, can you give me a single moral argument for why that's.

[Piers Morgan]

Well, that's simply not true. Well, where have you got that idea? Apart from Tommy Robinson? Other than Tommy Robinson. Andrew. Andrew. Honestly, to be honest, other than Tommy

[Host/Moderator]

Robinson marching around the airways in.

[Piers Morgan]

In America saying that, I have not seen any poll in the UK which says the UK people don't want any Muslims coming into the country.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah, I understand, but that's not my question. My question is, if it were the case that the people of the UK no longer wanted Muslim migration into their nation, what is even the moral argument against that?

[Eva Santini]

What I am very concerned about, actually, Christian evangelicism that's seeping over into the United Kingdom from the United States. And I think that that is actually a source for much of our discontent. I've always lived in London and we don't have a single problem with integration between religions in the country. I've never experienced that in my life. May I finish?

[Gavin McInnes]

Go to Harrods and tell me if it's right.

[Eva Santini]

I want to stay on Sadiq Khan for one moment. Now, Sadiq Khan has won a landslide victory on his third term. That's three times he has been elected as mayor of London. Now, if there was a huge problem with Sadiq Khan, why on earth would such a huge proportion of Londoners from all creed, all race, why would they continue to be.

[Gavin McInnes]

Because London's gone. London isn't Britain anymore.

[Piers Morgan]

Where is it gone?

[Eva Santini]

Where was the last time you were here?

[Piers Morgan]

Where is London and gone?

[Ben Habib]

60% of Londoners weren't born in London. They weren't born in the United Kingdom. I think that's the Point Andrew's making.

[Piers Morgan]

Where is London gone? I see one of the most vibrant, dynamic cities in the world.

[Ben Habib]

It may be vibrant.

[Gavin McInnes]

Go to Harrods after this and tell me what country you're in.

[Ben Habib]

It may be. It may be.

[Piers Morgan]

Hang on, hang on, hang on. What was that? Go where? Harrods.

[Gavin McInnes]

Yes.

[Piers Morgan]

Well actually you've now reminded me to play a clip because you came on my show last week, you then went on to think Glenn Beck and you

[Gavin McInnes]

said this Piers is an elite. He's never been to Luton. He doesn't understand the working class. You know, he probably doesn't go to any football matches with these people. He's got his own little box. And they don't understand that the Muslim problem is within the working class. They're not in know Cheddington, they're not in the, the, the, the west London, they're not in south, south England. They're all in concentrated in Birmingham, in Rotherham, in Luton and those towns are gone.

[Piers Morgan]

Just to clear up, I've been to Luton many times. I, I go to football all the time.

[Host/Moderator]

I often sit with regular.

[Gavin McInnes]

Have you been to a Luton match?

[Piers Morgan]

Hang on.

[Gavin McInnes]

No one in the stands at a

[Piers Morgan]

match often go to. I often go. Well, I wouldn't go to a Luton football match because the leader of the Luton football hooligan firm for a long time was a guy called Stephen Yaxley who's now Tommy Robinson. In fact he has multiple criminal convictions for running.

[Gavin McInnes]

Why is no one in the.

[Piers Morgan]

Well, wait a second, Gavin, wait a second. I'm responding, I'm responding to what you told Glenn Beck. If you ask why I don't go and watch Luton Town. A, I'm an Arsenal fan and we're about to win everything. But secondly, Luton Town had a big hooligan problem caused by Tommy Robinson under his real name Stephen Yaxley. He was the leader of the hooligan mob.

[Gavin McInnes]

What is the problem with hooliganism? It's mutual combat. It's a sport.

[Piers Morgan]

It's not mutual combat. It's a bunch of Neanderthals beating each other up and dragging in civilians.

[Gavin McInnes]

Rally.

[Piers Morgan]

But let me finish my point.

[Gavin McInnes]

Not to join Tommy Robinson.

[Piers Morgan]

Gavin.

[Gavin McInnes]

That's anti Britain.

[Piers Morgan]

Gavin. I'm going to. Gavin, I. You've done even asked my view yet. My point is I'm responding to what you told Glenn Beck. I go to football all the time. I've been a football fan for 45, 50 years. I regularly stood on the terraces with the working class fans. Let me tell you about hospitality boxes Arsenal for Example, they're full of working class people who've done well for themselves. Why you would think over in America that somehow only people who are not working class watch football from hospitality boxes is. So please allow me to educate football grounds in this country. Right? And I'm not an elitist. I went to a state school with workingclass people. I consider myself working class. My parents ran. Why did you tell my parents ran

[Gavin McInnes]

a pub to meet up in the

[Piers Morgan]

south of England, for God's sake. Right. I am a working class man.

[Gavin McInnes]

I've come back to avoid Tommy.

[Piers Morgan]

I'll tell you why I avoid Tommy. Because he's an absolute charlatan with a string of criminal convictions as long as his arm. You've tried to defend him. I gotta do a thread. You said last year on all Tommy's crimes. They showcase Britain's madness. Let's go through these crimes. Assault 2005, common assault 2011, leading a hundred man football brawl in 2011, lead using a false passport to enter the US and mortgage fraud. Reported jailings, repeated jailings.

[Gavin McInnes]

You don't know the backgrounds.

[Piers Morgan]

I've studied him more than you have studied him more than you have. Let me finish my point, then you can respond. Repeated jailings in 2017, 2019, most recently in October 2024. Not because of his free speech being suppressed, because of his ridiculous film he brought out that you all fell for, but because actually he lost a high profile libel action and was ordered to pay £100,000 in damages after falsely accusing a 15 year old Syrian refugee of being violent. And then he lied about it in his film and that was a repeat of the defamation, a breach of the contempt of court and he went to prison for it. You're all being taken for mugs in America by Tommy Robinson.

[Ben Habib]

I've got to intercede. Whether or not that Syrian boy was guilty of the accusations made against him is academic. The point is that the civil case that was founded against Tommy Robinson was a civil case and Lord Hermer politicized the whole thing. Lord Hermer being the Attorney General. A political appointment.

[Piers Morgan]

No, it didn't.

[Ben Habib]

A political appointment, Ennobled, in order to get him into the Cabinet, decided to elevate the importance of that civil case to a criminal level. And he can only do that if he can convince himself that that is a matter of public interest. Tommy, that jailing of Tommy Robinson in 2024 was a political jailing.

[Piers Morgan]

No, it wasn't.

[Ben Habib]

Yes, it wasn't.

[Piers Morgan]

It was a. There was a court order to stop him repeating his lies. About that Syrian refuge.

[Gavin McInnes]

May 16th is going to be.

[Piers Morgan]

There was a court order because of people like you. Yeah, it's going to be though. You're all being sold. You are all being completely. You're all being completely duped by Tommy Robinson. And by the way, let's call him Stephen. His real name is Stephen. I've studied the case. He's not even called Tommy Robinson.

[Gavin McInnes]

Congratulations.

[Ben Habib]

I've studied the case. Studied the case. It's got nothing to do with whether or not that Syrian boy was rightfully or wrongfully accused of what he was doing. What it's got to do with is Tommy Robinson refusing to take his film down and Hermer a political appointment interceding. And instead of the punishment typically for breaching an injunction in a civil action is a slap on the wrist, a bigger fine. Hermer took it to another level and. And threw Tommy Robinson in jail.

[Piers Morgan]

Okay. All I can tell you is that Tommy Robinson has a standing invitation to

[Host/Moderator]

come on this program, which he's consistently

[Piers Morgan]

bottled it and refused to do. And I can tell you the reason why. He knows that if we do it here in England and I ask him to repeat his lies about that Syrian boy that you've all swallowed in America, if he repeats them, he goes back to jail. You've believed his lies and full on you.

[Gavin McInnes]

It's illegal. Talk about that boy.

[Piers Morgan]

No, it's not illegal. He lost your. He lost a defamat case has made it illegal. He lost a defamation case.

[Ben Habib]

But that was a civil case, Piers. It's a defamation case and you don't go to jail over losing civil cases.

[Piers Morgan]

Let me bring in Ashok here. Ashok, look, we're getting slightly sidetracked, but I do think the credibility of Tommy Robinson and the damage that he does in America about the reputation of this country and London all being overrun by Muslims and everyone swallows it in America they believe this bullshit that comes out of England.

[Gavin McInnes]

By the way, I was born in Hitchin.

[Piers Morgan]

Really? Yes.

[Gavin McInnes]

Have you ever been to Tommy?

[Piers Morgan]

Have you ever been to.

[Gavin McInnes]

I'm British.

[Piers Morgan]

Have you ever been to a Luton town match?

[Gavin McInnes]

Of course. Yes, I have. With Tommy. And one person in the stands lived in Luton at the time. They were all expats because they were driven out by.

[Piers Morgan]

Which game did you go to?

[Gavin McInnes]

Is a Muslim town today?

[Piers Morgan]

Which game do you go to?

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[Gavin McInnes]

I don't know.

[Piers Morgan]

Well, what year was it? What year was.

[Gavin McInnes]

Was seven years ago.

[Piers Morgan]

Yeah. Which league were they in?

[Gavin McInnes]

I don't like soccer. I'm a baseball guy.

[Piers Morgan]

I don't think you went.

[Gavin McInnes]

I was there.

[Piers Morgan]

I think you're talking clap your sport. I think you're talking claptrack. You never went to a game with

[Host/Moderator]

Luton with Tommy Robinson.

[Piers Morgan]

All right, look it up.

[Gavin McInnes]

It's on the Internet.

[Joe Green]

I lived there for decades. I've lived in London for 17 years now. This bizarre obsession with Americans have with London and saying it's overrun with Muslims is because America has a history of Jim Crow segregation, the ghetto. Something Britain hasn't experienced in London, hasn't experienced. After the war ended, they spread out council estates across the city. It's the only city in the world that does that. It's one of the most. Yeah, we might have a little bit of segregation with the most desegregated cities in the world. It's something we should be proud of. And they can't stand it. They don't understand it. They can't explain it. They're like, why isn't it more like America?

[Ben Habib]

Ashok. It's not right, though. I just think multiculturalism coupled with mass

[Joe Green]

migration, these are just buzzwords. The empirical evidence. America is a segregated society.

[Ben Habib]

Can I. Can I.

[Joe Green]

Is not as Segregated anywhere near as

[Ben Habib]

we have got segregated, we have got segregation right across the United Kingdom. We have got multicultural.

[Joe Green]

Nothing like America. Nothing like America.

[Ben Habib]

Maybe the evidence, but I don't. I don't aspire to make the position in the United Kingdom.

[Joe Green]

What we have is European settlers. Can I just finish my point about immigration?

[Ben Habib]

Can I just finish my point? What we've got in the United Kingdom is lots of different cultures imported into this country. Not homegrown, not part of traditional British culture, having a protected blanket put around them, being celebrated and promoted with our British culture being set aside. And these people are operating often in cultural silos, absolutely at odds, even with each other. So, for example, when there was a cricket match. Piers, I know you're a cricket fan. When there was a cricket match between Pakistan and India, rival groups of Hindus and Muslims in Leicester went to war against each other. Over a cricket match. Where?

[Eva Santini]

England.

[Piers Morgan]

Hang on, Hang on, hang on, please. Hang on, please. Hang on, please. Ben, am I right in thinking that all your family then were all home grown, going back centuries?

[Ben Habib]

No, I'm not suggesting that.

[Piers Morgan]

From where were they from?

[Ben Habib]

No, the key thing.

[Piers Morgan]

Hang on, hang on. Where were they from?

[Ben Habib]

My father's Pakistani. My mother is English.

[Piers Morgan]

So none of your family.

[Joe Green]

Are me and Ben fighting right now? I feel like I want to fight Ben right now.

[Ben Habib]

Can I just.

[Piers Morgan]

How extraordinary that someone whose father's a Pakistani. I'm not preaching to us about the need for everyone to be homegrown.

[Ben Habib]

I'm not. No, I never.

[Gavin McInnes]

Assimilation.

[Piers Morgan]

Don't all talk at once.

[Ben Habib]

You've accused me of saying people have to be homegrown. That is completely wrong.

[Piers Morgan]

You literally just said it.

[Ben Habib]

No, what I said was we need cultural assimilation. We need homegrown was your phrase, not mine. No, I didn't say homegrown.

[Piers Morgan]

You did say homegrown.

[Ben Habib]

No, I never. I never said homegrown.

[Piers Morgan]

Well, I tell you what, we're going to play it back, okay?

[Ben Habib]

Let's get the context.

[Piers Morgan]

Get me the clip, and when it's

[Ben Habib]

ready, we'll play it back.

[Piers Morgan]

You said homegrown.

[Ben Habib]

What we have set aside. What we have set aside in the United Kingdom is a homogeneous, settled British culture because we have practiced mass migration from cultures that are different to ours, and we've promoted them, including Pakistan, Afghanistan, Syria, North Africa.

[Piers Morgan]

Is your father still alive?

[Ben Habib]

My father is still alive.

[Piers Morgan]

Okay. You're going to send him home.

[Ben Habib]

No, it's not a matter of deporting everyone who is not.

[Piers Morgan]

What is it then?

[Ben Habib]

It is a matter of having cultural homogeneity so we are settled as a.

[Piers Morgan]

Your father wouldn't be from cultural hodgemoninity,

[Ben Habib]

the Kingdom.

[Piers Morgan]

Why wouldn't you deport your father?

[Ben Habib]

Because I'm not going to deport people who are perfectly law abiding.

[Eva Santini]

I'm not going to deport anyone as

[Piers Morgan]

long as it's members of Ben Habib's family, they don't get deported.

[Ben Habib]

This is so.

[Piers Morgan]

But if it's anybody else from Pakistan, they all get sent home.

[Ben Habib]

What we need in this country is a reversal of mass migration. And we need British culture, including our Christian, constitutional and cultural roots, to be put first and foremost and at the heart of our cultural settlement. This is where this country. My father is not. He's not really religious. He's drunk all his life as a Muslim.

[Host/Moderator]

Wow.

[Joe Green]

He's a Muslim.

[Piers Morgan]

As a Muslim, your father's a Pakistani Muslim. But you want people to be homegrown Christians.

[Ben Habib]

I didn't say homegrown Christians. I didn't say homegrown culture.

[Piers Morgan]

You did say homegrown, by the way. Hang on, hang on, hang on. Just to be clear, technically we can't play it back while we're filming the show.

[Ben Habib]

Okay.

[Piers Morgan]

However, we will be posting the clip afterwards.

[Ben Habib]

Great.

[Piers Morgan]

I'll give you one last chance, Benhabib, to admit that you use the phrase homegrown.

[Ben Habib]

If I used. If I used it, yeah. I did not use it in the sense that you have to be born and grown.

[Piers Morgan]

You have to be ancestral British lines.

[Ben Habib]

If I used it, I use it in a cultural context to emphasize the point that we need a settlement in this country. Can I just say one last thing? The government of this country defines cultural nationalism as being far right. You can go to the government website. It defines cultural nationalism as being far right. In order to have a society, in order to have a nation, you need a common culture. And in order to believe in. If we believe in our common culture, a British culture, we are now defined as far right.

[Piers Morgan]

You're the son of a Pakistani Muslim, for God's sake.

[Joe Green]

If you.

[Gavin McInnes]

I.

[Ben Habib]

If you.

[Piers Morgan]

What are you talking about, man?

[Ben Habib]

My mother is white, English.

[Piers Morgan]

Her father. So she's okay.

[Ben Habib]

No, but your dad isn't, and I'm okay. And anyone who.

[Piers Morgan]

What does your dad say about this claptrap?

[Ben Habib]

He's absolutely with me. As are many.

[Piers Morgan]

He thinks all Pakistani Muslims should be sent home. Does he?

[Ben Habib]

I never said that. Piers, you're talking nonsense.

[Piers Morgan]

You said we should have homegrown people in this country.

[Ben Habib]

No, I'm afraid you've hijacked the Homeowner,

[Piers Morgan]

I'm afraid you did.

[Ben Habib]

You wish to racialize it.

[Piers Morgan]

You. Oh, my God, man, you're racial. You're the one that used the phrase homegrown.

[Ben Habib]

I am talking about cultural homogeneity, Assimilation of foreign cultures into this country if they wish to come here. Otherwise, if you don't buy into what. What it means to be British. You don't like what it means to be British, you don't like Christianity, leave the country, it's fine.

[Eva Santini]

But this is what's been said for, you know, going on a century now. This is what they said to the Italians who first came here in the 20s. This is what they then said to the Windrush generation who came here in the 60s and built the entire underground network in London. Might I just add. What?

[Gavin McInnes]

That's not true.

[Piers Morgan]

What do you mean?

[Gavin McInnes]

Britain. They were temporary laborers. They did not build Britain. That's an old trope. That's got to go. Look, blend bin beautifully with Britain. Hindus assimilate beautifully. Every other culture assimilates beautifully. But modern.

[Eva Santini]

He just said that the Hindus got into a row over cricket is a

[Piers Morgan]

perfect example of that.

[Gavin McInnes]

You elites don't go to these countries. And May 16.

[Piers Morgan]

What do you mean by elite, by the way?

[Gavin McInnes]

What do you mean by elite peers?

[Piers Morgan]

Who's elite here?

[Gavin McInnes]

I mean you, if you don't think that Britain has a Muslim problem. Today you're an elite and you don't travel and you don't know working class people and you've never been.

[Piers Morgan]

You've no idea who I hang out with. You haven't got a clue, man.

[Gavin McInnes]

Go there, use your eyeballs.

[Piers Morgan]

You haven't got a clue what I do or who I see. Have.

[Gavin McInnes]

You're. You haven't been. You have not been to Luton if you think it exists today. It is a fifth post. It is a Muslim city. It is over. It's gone. It's been written off. It's a Muslim outpost.

[Host/Moderator]

A Muslim outpost? Wow.

[Piers Morgan]

There.

[Gavin McInnes]

You can't arrest a Muslim there or they'll take over the police.

[Piers Morgan]

When were you last in Luton? When were you last.

[Gavin McInnes]

Five years ago.

[Piers Morgan]

Oh, you said seven a minute ago. Which one is it every year?

[Gavin McInnes]

I was at the Unite the Right rally too. I'm British, you morons.

[Piers Morgan]

You're British?

[Gavin McInnes]

Yes.

[Joe Green]

Why are you. Why are you occupying America?

[Piers Morgan]

What's your citizen? What's your citizenship?

[Gavin McInnes]

British, American, Canadian.

[Eva Santini]

You can't be three. You have to be Jill. National.

[Gavin McInnes]

That's. That's also a myth.

[Eva Santini]

You don't have three passports.

[Piers Morgan]

Whoa. What did you call her? What did you call her?

[Gavin McInnes]

I called her a dumb bitch.

[Piers Morgan]

Can you apologize, please?

[Gavin McInnes]

I'm sorry. That was a bad word.

[Eva Santini]

I appreciate that.

[Piers Morgan]

Yeah, it is, actually. I just think. Why would you do that?

[Gavin McInnes]

I got mad. I used a swear word.

[Piers Morgan]

You just use a disgusting phrase to a woman.

[Gavin McInnes]

What? Have you not been in an argument before? You use swear words in an argument. We're going to dwell on this like you dwelled on homegrown and ignored what's really going on here, which is.

[Piers Morgan]

I tend to pick up on things. I think what people say, particularly when they get angry, can be very enlightening. Very enlightening.

[Ben Habib]

I've got to watch this back because I did not use it in any context.

[Piers Morgan]

Well, I'll bet you your entire net worth you use that phrase. I don't take the.

[Ben Habib]

Not in the back. Not.

[Piers Morgan]

Yes or no.

[Ben Habib]

Not in a race.

[Piers Morgan]

Racial sense. Not absolutely. Was if I use.

[Gavin McInnes]

In a racial.

[Ben Habib]

Cultural sense.

[Piers Morgan]

Oh, no, no. It was in a racial context because you.

[Ben Habib]

I'm brown. I'm Brian. Turkeys don't vote for Christians.

[Piers Morgan]

I know. We found out what you are. Which made it all the more baffling why you would use phrases like that.

[Ben Habib]

I don't care what I am.

[Gavin McInnes]

You calling Pakistani a racist to Pakistanis.

[Ben Habib]

Yeah. And this is the point about the United Kingdom march. Everyone wants to class the United Kingdom march as racist.

[Piers Morgan]

Actually, I haven't said that.

[Ben Habib]

People do say it. They say.

[Piers Morgan]

I haven't said that.

[Ben Habib]

People do say it.

[Gavin McInnes]

You can't tell me they say it's far right.

[Ben Habib]

It's racist. It's a bunch of white people who just want to deport everyone. It's rubbish. I spoke at 13 September. There were lots of different ethnicities present, but they had one thing in common. They love this country. They love its history.

[Piers Morgan]

Okay, we've now got the clip.

[Host/Moderator]

Let's play it.

[Gavin McInnes]

Yeah.

[Ben Habib]

What we've got in the United Kingdom is lots of different cultures imported into this country. Not homegrown. The cultures are not homegrown. The cultures are not homegrown. That's the point. The cultures are not homegrown. I did not use it in a racist sense.

[Piers Morgan]

You assured me you didn't use it at all.

[Ben Habib]

Yeah, but you've taken.

[Joe Green]

You've.

[Ben Habib]

The cultures were. Again, play the clip again. The cultures were not homegrown.

[Gavin McInnes]

Calling a brown guy racist. That's what Britain is.

[Piers Morgan]

Let me go to Andrew. Let me go to Andrew Wilson. Andrew.

[Andrew Wilson]

He. He is actually correct here, Pierce. He's taught he said the cultures are not homegrown. So he's saying that these are foreign cultures which are coming. That's that. That's literally the context of that clip.

[Piers Morgan]

Right.

[Host/Moderator]

But his own father is a Pakistani

[Piers Morgan]

Muslim, so his culture is not homegrown. So my point is he's a flaming hypocrite and he doesn't want his dad deported because it's his dad. He just wants other Pakistani Muslims.

[Ben Habib]

I've never advocated for mass deportations of people who belong in this country, who buy into this country, love this country, are prepared to die for this country. I've got no issue with people like that. The people I've got probably does, who bring antithetical ideologies to this country and cause us, that wish us harm, wish our wives, our daughters harm and wish to set us aside, I've got a real issue with that.

[Eva Santini]

And what cultures are they?

[Ben Habib]

They're cultures. They are muscular.

[Eva Santini]

Name one.

[Ben Habib]

Well, let me tell you, it's far more nuanced than you might like to think because you want to have a head on absolute head butting exercise. But if you take lots of people in, for example, from where? If you take lots of people in from places like the depths of Punjab, the depths of Sawat, the depths of Kashmir and who haven't had a. They haven't had a brush.

[Piers Morgan]

So from where your father came from,

[Ben Habib]

they haven't had a brush. My father is an educated man. He got a PhD at King's College, King's College in London.

[Piers Morgan]

So which part of Pakistan is he from?

[Ben Habib]

He's. He's from Punjab but he was educated.

[Piers Morgan]

So the depths of Punjab.

[Ben Habib]

Go to the depths of Punjab. You write.

[Piers Morgan]

Is he from the depths of Punjab?

[Ben Habib]

You import barbarians who are not even

[Piers Morgan]

from the barbarians from the depths of Punjab where your own father comes from,

[Ben Habib]

determined to overspeak me and not. Let me finish my point. If you import barbarians from the depths of Punjab who are not even welcome in polite Pakistani society, if you welcome them into British society and you put a protective blanket round them like we have, with progressive discrimination, all right, you are going to damage this country and that is what we are.

[Piers Morgan]

But there is something utterly ridiculous about you taking this strong principle stand against people coming from the depths of Punjabi and barbarians. When your own father comes from Punjab,

[Gavin McInnes]

we have to assimilate his father. Assimilated. This is a.

[Piers Morgan]

How do you know his father? Assimilated. You don't know his father.

[Gavin McInnes]

Modern Islam is not assimilating in Britain. It's incongruous. It's in the business actually it's in the word it says actually.

[Piers Morgan]

Actually I'll bring Ashok in here. My understanding is that the vast majority of the 5 million Muslims in our country do assimilate quite happily and there are some who don't. And there are some by the way.

[Gavin McInnes]

Yeah, well the ones who don't are raping their daughters.

[Piers Morgan]

Every other form of immigrants in our country.

[Ben Habib]

Do you agree that don't assimilate is important? Do you agree that assimilation.

[Piers Morgan]

I think it would be nice if everybody assimilated, yes.

[Ben Habib]

I would like everyone to get on. We're not, we're not assimilating.

[Piers Morgan]

You're not going to get to assimilation by branding people who come from where your father comes from. A bunch of barbarians.

[Ben Habib]

The ones that are importing is important. No, it is and I'm using it advisedly because we are taking people who are barbarians into this country.

[Eva Santini]

If you think you don't know that your dad's not a barbarian and the people who are going on that unite the kingdom.

[Piers Morgan]

I want to intimate your father will be racist. I want to interview your father, see which depth of Punjab he came from and whether he's barbarian.

[Ben Habib]

You love my father.

[Joe Green]

Why are we denying this? For not separating, making a difference. They're saying deport all the Muslims. So there's a distinction here. And they're saying oh actually a majority of Britain wants that. There's no evidence of that. We've just an election and that represents probably the most right wing party in

[Ben Habib]

the country we are going to have.

[Joe Green]

And he.

[Andrew Wilson]

Hang on, hang on, let me read.

[Joe Green]

Reform winning support for what they're advocating. There's no democratic mandate to deport Ben's father even though Ben insists he doesn't want to be deported.

[Gavin McInnes]

My poor father.

[Joe Green]

Gavin just said they want Ben's father to be deported. Andrew, do you think that Ben's father should be deported in the way you suggested when you first spoke?

[Piers Morgan]

Gavin, should he?

[Gavin McInnes]

Obviously not. We're talking about assimilation. You said all the Muslims should assimilate. When Pakistanis first started coming to Britain it was working out. But something changed in the past 10 years. I don't know, maybe because they got more than 10% in certain neighborhoods goods and now it is not working. And I don't get how you can't recognize that. That's why Unite the right had 3 million people.

[Piers Morgan]

That's why they didn't have 3 million people. They had a hundred and fifty thousand maximum. They had 150,000 maximum people. Were you there?

[Gavin McInnes]

Peers?

[Piers Morgan]

Well, let Me tell you. I know. I know. The biggest. I can tell you the biggest march. I can tell you the biggest march in this country history was in 2003. It was the march against the Iraq war. I know about it because I was leading the campaign against the Iraq war. And most of them were carrying Daily Mirror, the paper. Iran placards saying no war. And it was the biggest march, and it was dwarfed.

[Gavin McInnes]

It was marches by about 12 to 1.

[Piers Morgan]

It is completely. You again have believed Tommy Robinson, who says 3 million people can do his march. It is utter bullshit, I tell you.

[Ben Habib]

It's equally bullshit to say it was 150,000.

[Piers Morgan]

Okay, let me just make my point. Hang on one second. Hang on one second. I want to make a point wider about the rally, though. I think people in this country are perfectly entitled to demonstrate peacefully. I think there's nothing intrinsically wrong with

[Host/Moderator]

people attending the Tommy Robinson march.

[Piers Morgan]

If they wish to do that, most of them do so completely.

[Gavin McInnes]

Why'd you tell Glenn Beck not to go?

[Piers Morgan]

Hang on. I haven't finished speaking yet. Most of them do so peacefully. That's fine with me. Right. If you want to lasso your horse next to Tommy Robinson, absolutely fine with me. But be very cognizant of the kind of person he really is, not the ridiculous caricature he presents of himself in the United States, which is causing this country's reputation a lot of harm, because you're all falling for it. I can tell you, if you walk through London, any part of London, you're not getting a sense of it being overrun by anybody. London is a great. Are you mad? Vibrant.

[Gavin McInnes]

It's not British.

[Piers Morgan]

You're not here.

[Gavin McInnes]

It's not British anymore.

[Piers Morgan]

London's gone. Where do you live? Where do you live?

[Gavin McInnes]

I live in New York City. I was.

[Piers Morgan]

New York City.

[Gavin McInnes]

I was there.

[Piers Morgan]

I was in New York City. I go there all the time. I love New York City. New York City.

[Gavin McInnes]

My whole life.

[Piers Morgan]

New York City is crying. New York City's crime.

[Gavin McInnes]

London feels like.

[Piers Morgan]

Your crime rate is immeasurably worse than

[Gavin McInnes]

London related to the town. No one's British there anymore.

[Piers Morgan]

Your crime rate in New York is immeasurably. You have immeasurably more serious crime in New York than we do in London. Why is that if we're being overrun?

[Gavin McInnes]

Well, I don't think you want to go near that third rail. But it.

[Piers Morgan]

It has to do with race in New York.

[Gavin McInnes]

Yes.

[Piers Morgan]

Ah, well, do explain.

[Gavin McInnes]

Well, we have a larger. We have a major crime problem in this. In this country. And in New York City, because blacks and browns are on welfare and they're addicted to crack and they have guns because we have a socialist Muslim mayor who's letting them do whatever they want. It's sort of like London. But you guys have knives. We have guns. Guns kill more people. And when. When Mamdani allows them to do whatever they want and lets them out on

[Piers Morgan]

charge for a few months, New York, last time I checked, has had a

[Gavin McInnes]

more problem for the first time.

[Piers Morgan]

Mamdani has been mayor for a few months. Right. New York City has had a far higher serious crime rate than London throughout my entire adult life. What are you talking about? And you've had white mayors and Christian.

[Gavin McInnes]

No, we've had socialist mayors. We've had one right wing mayor, Giuliani, and that's when there was no crime in New York.

[Piers Morgan]

Of course there was crime in New York. What are you talking about?

[Gavin McInnes]

Affirmative action, socialism.

[Piers Morgan]

Of course there was crime in New York under Giuliani.

[Gavin McInnes]

No, Giuliani. Our annual murder rate went from 2000 to 300 with Giuliani. Thousands of lives.

[Piers Morgan]

That sounds like a crime rate to me.

[Gavin McInnes]

We got a right wing person under David Dinkins in 92. It was. It was brutal. And we're getting back there now. But we have a socialism problem in New York City and you guys have a socialism and a Muslim problem. And now we're experiencing both.

[Piers Morgan]

The point I was going to make about the United Kingdom march. Let me bring Andrew back in here. I don't pretend for a moment that we have not had a poor record

[Host/Moderator]

in controlling immigration to this country this century.

[Piers Morgan]

Right. We have had two problems. One, we've had the issue of small

[Host/Moderator]

boats coming over the Channel from France,

[Piers Morgan]

which has been completely uncontrolled.

[Host/Moderator]

And we've had between 40 and 60,000

[Piers Morgan]

people a year coming in illegally. And once they get here, it's almost

[Host/Moderator]

impossible to send them anywhere else.

[Piers Morgan]

And so they've been put up in hotels at expense to the taxpayer, caused

[Host/Moderator]

a lot of social anger and unrest,

[Piers Morgan]

and it should have been tackled years ago. We've also had a massive issue with legal migration, where under Tony Blair, a Labour prime minister, but also then fueled by successive conservative prime ministers, we have allowed too many people to come into the country legally with too many dependents. I don't think these things are contestable. They're just a reality of what we've done in this country. But the narrative that we are being overrun by Muslims is untrue.

[Host/Moderator]

And that is also, I think, a demonstrable fact in this country.

[Piers Morgan]

And I'm just concerned that the problem with Robinson is that he spews all this stuff all the time. If you look at his social media feed, the only crimes he focuses on are crimes perpetrated by Muslims. And yet the vast majority. Hang on, Gabby, I'm talking to Andrew. And yet the vast majority of crime in the UK is committed by white people, including sexual crime, including race.

[Gavin McInnes]

You don't understand.

[Piers Morgan]

Per capita, including the vast majority of crime is done by white people. You never believe that looking at Tommy Robinson's feed because he only focuses on Muslim crime.

[Andrew Wilson]

Well, hang on, hang on. When you say that, there's various stats which are misleading. Gavin did ask a pertinent question. When you say that most crime is committed by white people. Well, it should be. That's still the dominant racial element in England. What about per capita, meaning per proportion about my life. Hang on, hang on real quick. I'm almost done.

[Piers Morgan]

Okay.

[Andrew Wilson]

Is there a disproportionate amount of crime from these immigrants in comparison to the domestic population? That's his question. I think it's valid.

[Gavin McInnes]

But specifically child rape.

[Piers Morgan]

Well, specifically. Actually, the vast majority of child rape is perpetrated in the UK by white people.

[Andrew Wilson]

Not asking about that. We're asking. We're asking about.

[Piers Morgan]

Okay, but why does Tommy Robinson. I don't know the per capita number. I'll get it. While we're talking.

[Ben Habib]

85% of gang rapes in this country are perpetrated of. Gang rapes are perpetrated by South Asian men, according to the quillian report of 2017.

[Piers Morgan]

Actually, they were British Pakistani men, to be specific.

[Ben Habib]

In South Asian region.

[Piers Morgan]

In parts of the north of England. Right.

[Eva Santini]

Which was. Yeah, Pakistan.

[Ben Habib]

Yeah. Premierpur, mostly with the rallies of an army 16.

[Piers Morgan]

But my point, Andrew, is the per capita rally. My point to Andrew is, is it helpful that Tommy Robinson only fuels a narrative that all the crimes are being committed by Muslims when they're not.

[Andrew Wilson]

I'm not. I'm not convinced that that's actually accurate. So it seems. I've watched a few of the Robinson debates and he tends to focus on disproportionate crime rates. What Gavin's talking about here, which is per capita. He's saying that disproportionate to the domestic population that's here. These people are overwhelmingly committing these types of sex crimes. That doesn't sound to me like he's trying to pin everything on Muslims, but rather point out an individualistic and precise problem.

[Host/Moderator]

So we have the.

[Piers Morgan]

Okay, we have the data for you, the arrest rates by ethnicity per thousand

[Host/Moderator]

people for the year ending March 2025. Black, 19 arrests per thousand people. White, 10 arrests per thousand people. Asian, 9 arrests per thousand people.

[Gavin McInnes]

Yeah.

[Andrew Wilson]

Now do child actually answering the question.

[Piers Morgan]

Okay, so now you want to narrow it down again and again and again. Okay, you asked me, you asked me, you asked me to give you what a weird side to pick the pro

[Gavin McInnes]

rat who's trying to stop child rape. Sorry, you're mad at the guy who's trying to stop child rape.

[Piers Morgan]

No, no, I'm not.

[Gavin McInnes]

Girls getting raped.

[Piers Morgan]

But again, nailed a girl's to a

[Gavin McInnes]

piece of wood as they raped her. Gavin raped her under the Gavin.

[Piers Morgan]

I said this the other day.

[Gavin McInnes]

Girls Gavin for Muhammad Gavin.

[Piers Morgan]

The hot Gavin Gavin. I have repeatedly said that where I agree with Tommy Robinson has been on his relentless campaigning against the grooming rape

[Host/Moderator]

gangs in the north of England.

[Gavin McInnes]

That's all he cares about.

[Piers Morgan]

Hang on. No, no, it's not all he cares about. Tommy Robinson. If only it was all he cares about. But it's not. But the point is he claims he was the only one who ever exposed this. That the journalists of this country never, never exposed it. And yet it was exposed originally by a journalist from the Times newspaper. It was a literal journalist who blew the lid off that whole scandal. Tommy Robinson has been right to focus on the COVID ups which were scandalous and outrageous. And I completely agree with him. As I would say to his face as I told him on social media,

[Gavin McInnes]

you covered it up. You know why? Because you would rather let little girls get raped than be known as racist. All you care about is your.

[Piers Morgan]

Why would you say such a ridiculous

[Gavin McInnes]

racist is the worst thing you can be. So you allow girls to get raped.

[Piers Morgan]

Why would you say such a stupid thing?

[Gavin McInnes]

It's. It's demonic is what it is. I'm calling you guys demons.

[Piers Morgan]

Really? You sound completely unhinged. Ironically, that's what May 16 is about. You sound unhinged.

[Andrew Wilson]

They make up so 4%.

[Gavin McInnes]

I am unhinged.

[Andrew Wilson]

But make up 18% of all the people jailed. Pierce, what is it? Am I reading that right? Is that. Is that correct? I just want to make sure that I got this right. Let's. You said you're going to get these per capita numbers and I want them like what, what are they? What are the per capita numbers? Because what I'm seeing is not looking very good. Okay? It's not looking very good for your side. So what are they? What is the actual why numbers for

[Piers Morgan]

child sex crimes I find it extraordinary.

[Gavin McInnes]

Call someone racist when they point this out.

[Piers Morgan]

I've literally just told you the arrest rates for ethnicity and they speak for themselves.

[Andrew Wilson]

Well, no, it did. You use the word Muslim literally speak for themselves.

[Piers Morgan]

I'm not pretending Muslims don't commit crimes. So does every other

[Eva Santini]

splitting hair. I do think if we're talking about

[Gavin McInnes]

splitting hairs, we're splitting young girls in half. That's what we're splitting.

[Eva Santini]

Why would you say that? If you've been around people who have been a victim of child sexual abuse, hearing something like that is horrendous. I can tell you, any victim, you know what's horrendous?

[Gavin McInnes]

Getting raped by an old Pakistani man

[Eva Santini]

into a real life panic. It's awful what you're saying.

[Gavin McInnes]

You know what? You just can't handle the truth.

[Eva Santini]

I can handle the truth. I actually know you can't. And I have for years been talking about the grooming gangs. I've been talking about labor and what they did not do in certain councils. I've also spoken about people like Andy Burnham, who is the mayor of Manchester. When he was an mp, he was one of the first people to put in a proper inquiry and actually led to arrests of the people who perpetrated these heinous acts.

[Gavin McInnes]

Okay, so you're a Tommy Robinson supporter.

[Eva Santini]

I think that it's perfectly legitimate to raise issue and raise light on these horrendous crimes.

[Gavin McInnes]

Great.

[Eva Santini]

But I don't agree. I do not agree with all of the nonsense we were talking about before about the Unite the rally and talking about, you know, him actually acting contempt, you know, carrying out contempt of court. But I, you know, child sexual abuse. I just don't like the politicization.

[Gavin McInnes]

Contempt of court was releasing a documentary about this thing.

[Eva Santini]

It really is horrendous.

[Ben Habib]

Is there a particular.

[Eva Santini]

You'll be knocked sideways by that, Ava.

[Ben Habib]

Is there a particular ESC group that you accept is majority responsible for the raping of underage women?

[Eva Santini]

Well, Ben, let me sit back a little bit and answer that question, because I think that. I think that the lunacy of it to me is that any child sexual exploitation or abuse is heinous. And that's the starting block.

[Ben Habib]

We all agree with that. But is there an ethnic connection to it?

[Eva Santini]

Can I finish? The one thing I would stress is the grooming gangs that did coagulate around Rochdale, around Manchester. I completely have. I have investigated this and I've reported on this. There was not proper reporting of the perpetrators because there were quote, unquote, fears in the council that it would be perceived as racism.

[Gavin McInnes]

That's an issue.

[Eva Santini]

But that's an issue at heart.

[Ben Habib]

That is actually an issue at heart

[Eva Santini]

that we should tackle as a country. And I'm really glad, actually, for some of the very loud influencers online who have brought this to the forefront, that does not negate the white people in this country to carry out child sexual abuse every single day. You know, over 50% happens in people's own homes.

[Ben Habib]

Ava, I get all of that, but you touched on a really important point. You said institutions turn the blind eye because of fear.

[Eva Santini]

They did turn a blind eye.

[Ben Habib]

That is institutionalized racism in this country against white people in favor of ethnic minorities.

[Eva Santini]

Because there's also.

[Ben Habib]

That is where this country has gone

[Eva Santini]

south every single day. But for some reason, Ben, you can't stomach it.

[Ben Habib]

No.

[Eva Santini]

The police. And actually there are a lot of white men carrying this out every single day.

[Ben Habib]

Absolutely, I agree with that. But there is no. There is no institutional protection of white criminals. There is institutional protection.

[Eva Santini]

White men getting off every single day for doing this.

[Ben Habib]

The police turned the blind eye.

[Eva Santini]

That's what we should be fighting about.

[Ben Habib]

The police turned a blind eye. You just said it yourself. Police turned a blind eye. Social services turned a blind eye. NHS turned a blind eye. And actually I think it was either Gavin or Andrew said it earlier. We have a two tier criminal justice system. We have a sentencing council. That is, we have a sentencing council. Can I just say, we have a sentencing. We have a.

[Eva Santini]

You don't care about the rape of young children. You don't care. You care about politicizing.

[Ben Habib]

No, I don't. I'm absolute nonsense.

[Eva Santini]

You would talk about it as a homogeneous issue and not simply about one race. Is doing this. One race.

[Andrew Wilson]

Muslims aren't a race.

[Gavin McInnes]

How do I get in trouble for using the word bitch? And she can say he doesn't care about child rape. Isn't that worse?

[Piers Morgan]

You literally accused all of us of endorsing it.

[Host/Moderator]

That's why.

[Gavin McInnes]

Because you hid the fact. You hid this. He's not hiding it, He's.

[Joe Green]

You're.

[Gavin McInnes]

By hiding it, you're endorsing it. By hiding it, you're allowing it to happen.

[Ben Habib]

You become complacent.

[Gavin McInnes]

Now you're focused on white rapists because you don't understand per capita

[Eva Santini]

issue working class. You don't feel the working class had

[Gavin McInnes]

enough of your accent and the way you ignore things because they're not fashionable. Sorry. I'm sorry that recognizing grooming gangs is not fashionable.

[Eva Santini]

What?

[Host/Moderator]

What are you talking about, man?

[Eva Santini]

I've just got.

[Gavin McInnes]

I'm talking about you guys denying that we have a modern Islamic problem with child rape. That's what these rallies are about. You guys want to diffuse it and say, well, white males do it too, and let's ignore per capita.

[Eva Santini]

That's not what I said.

[Gavin McInnes]

Laying it down.

[Eva Santini]

That's not what I said at all. That's just not what I said.

[Gavin McInnes]

You focusing on white males, you're trying to dilute the equation.

[Piers Morgan]

My point, which started all this, is if you read Tommy Robinson's X feed, for example, you will never see anything

[Host/Moderator]

about white males committing crimes.

[Piers Morgan]

Why?

[Andrew Wilson]

Because he's focused on the thing he's

[Piers Morgan]

trying to pay attention to.

[Host/Moderator]

Exactly.

[Piers Morgan]

Because he's focused on Muslims, and you're not 24. 7. Oh, I'm focused on everyone and all crimes.

[Gavin McInnes]

Okay, can you play that?

[Piers Morgan]

What I'm not is devoting. I'm not telling millions of people every day that the only problem in this country is the Muslims taking over, because it's. Anyway, we got to leave it there. Will you be watching the rally, Gavin, on the weekend?

[Gavin McInnes]

Will you be there with bells on? Just like I was at the last one with the other 3 million people, right?

[Host/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Piers Morgan]

Well, okay.

[Host/Moderator]

Why don't we count them when you're there?

[Piers Morgan]

Because you'll find that you can just

[Gavin McInnes]

look at the shots.

[Piers Morgan]

You'll find your 2 million short. No, no. These are the police figures from the March 150,000 maximum. But don't tell me. Don't tell me they lied. Let's say would. Why would the police lie about a crowd number?

[Gavin McInnes]

Because the state hates Tommy Robinson. They've thrown him in jail 10 times for nothing.

[Andrew Wilson]

Hang on.

[Piers Morgan]

They threw him in jail for a series of crimes.

[Andrew Wilson]

Never did get those number.

[Joe Green]

Go look up.

[Andrew Wilson]

I'm just pointing that out. We never did get those numbers. Speaking of numbers, we asked. Did ask for them anytime, but I never actually got the numbers. To demonstrate whether or not there's disproportionate criminality from Muslims, especially when it comes to sex crimes.

[Piers Morgan]

I will tell you this. I will get those numbers, and we will talk about this again. We will get all the pro rata numbers for all types of crime in this country.

[Gavin McInnes]

But I look forward to you guys catching up to us. I look forward to you and your posh accents catching up to the rest

[Piers Morgan]

of the world, mate. No disrespect, but you. You live in America, where I think. How many is it?

[Gavin McInnes]

Yes.

[Piers Morgan]

40.

[Gavin McInnes]

40 white people are doing it too. You know, it's. It's a general problem. It's all over the place. I don't like you vilifying my servants. It's so. It stresses them out.

[Piers Morgan]

I actually think your accent is a crime. And on that note, I'm gonna.

[Host/Moderator]

I'm gonna round off this debate.

[Piers Morgan]

Thank you all very much. I appreciate it.

[Andrew Wilson]

Have a good one.

[Gavin McInnes]

Cheers.

[Piers Morgan]

Piers Morgan Uncensored is proudly independent. The only boss around here is me. If you enjoy our show, we ask for only one simple thing. Hit subscribe on YouTube and follow Piers Morgan Uncensored on Spotify and Apple podcasts. And in return, we will continue our

[Host/Moderator]

mission to inform, irritate, and entertain, and

[Piers Morgan]

we'll do it all for free. Independent, uncensored media has never been more critical, and we couldn't do it without you.