Pillow Talks Podcast: Episode 226

"Foreplay Frustrations: How to Get More (and Better) Foreplay"

Hosts: Vanessa & Xander Marin
Date: September 18, 2025

Episode Overview

In this candid and humorous episode, Vanessa (a sex therapist) and her husband Xander answer listener questions about foreplay, challenging common misconceptions and offering practical, actionable advice for couples. They break down the myths around what "counts" as sex, the real reasons behind foreplay frustrations, and specific steps to increase pleasure and connection. The Marins champion open communication, playful exploration, and redefining foreplay as a vital, pleasurable, and collaborative part of sex—not just a prelude.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Foreplay Counts as Sex: Redefining Sex & Foreplay

• Why the term “foreplay” is problematic
  • Vanessa and Xander dislike the term “foreplay” because it implies it’s merely a prelude, not a main event.
    • “We actually hate the word foreplay.” (Vanessa, 02:46)
    • They use it out of necessity because everyone knows the term.
• All sexual acts matter
  • Intercourse isn’t the only “real” sex—anything pleasurable for both partners counts.
    • “Everything counts as sex. Like, whatever you want sex to be, that's what sex is. And there is no hierarchy here.” (Vanessa, 04:24)
• Statistics on women’s pleasure
  • 91% of women in their audience say intercourse isn’t the most pleasurable act, and are more likely to orgasm from hands, mouth, or toys (05:33).
  • For most men, intercourse and oral sex are most pleasurable; hand stimulation is less commonly preferred.

2. Teaching Partners About the Importance of Foreplay

• Addressing one-sided foreplay
  • Many women experience partners who like receiving but rarely offer foreplay. Vanessa encourages listeners to share this episode with their partners to spark conversation.
    • “Rewind this episode about five minutes and play it out loud while your partner's nearby.” (Vanessa, 11:06)
• Foreplay should be fun, not a chore
  • The cultural narrative around foreplay (e.g., “preheating the oven”) is limiting and negative.
    • “Foreplay is fun.” (Vanessa, 11:54)
• Why some partners hesitate to give foreplay
  • Many men lack confidence or clarity on what their partner enjoys (12:19).
    • “Honestly, if they were really being honest with me. Be like, you know what? I'm actually not. I'm not sure [what works].” (Xander, 12:19)
  • Women often rush or downplay their own needs, pushing partners’ hands away or minimizing their own desire for attention (16:32).

3. Communication Tips: Asking for More (and Better) Foreplay

• Make requests clearly and playfully
  • Instead of criticism, approach the subject with fun: “Hey, I want to go first tonight.” or after giving, simply say, “Okay, my turn.” (Vanessa, 18:22)
• Be direct
  • Many women think they’re being clear, but subtleties are often missed by male partners.
    • “There is a dynamic between women and men, often where women are asking in these very roundabout ways… completely over the guy’s head.” (Xander, 17:51)
• Men’s anxiety about erections and “losing momentum”
  • Xander discusses how men fear losing erections if there's too much foreplay or swapping of attention. Overcoming this fear and communicating openly can increase intimacy and satisfaction (19:09).

4. Expanding What Counts as Foreplay (23:22–28:18)

• Beyond the basics
  • Foreplay includes any activity that builds anticipation, excitement, or emotional connection.
    • “Foreplay for the next time starts the second that you stop having sex.” (Vanessa, 23:46)
• Examples of foreplay
  • Kindness and emotional presence: “Literally, just be nice to them.” (Vanessa, 23:51)
  • Chore play (doing chores in a playful/sexy way)—but only if it's genuine, not transactional (25:12).
  • Massage, sensual/sensory touch, dirty/flirty talk, reading/watching erotica, toys, and more.

5. Balancing Mismatched Foreplay Needs

• The receiver should determine duration/amount
  • “I think that foreplay should be determined by the receiver…” (Vanessa, 31:06)
• Sexual satisfaction is key to relationship health
  • Avoid punting problems; unresolved sexual dissatisfaction often leads to major relationship issues.
    • “If you are not happy with your sex life, your relationship is generally, for most people, not going to work long term.” (Xander, 33:41)
• It’s about pleasure, not “balancing time”
  • “[Don’t] focus on balance in the first place… focus on pleasure.” (Xander, 36:10)

6. Discussing Foreplay Preferences (How to Have the Talk)

• Leverage shared resources as conversation starters
  • Reference this episode or specific guides as a non-threatening entry point.
    • “It just feels easier to open a conversation when you're starting with something like that.” (Vanessa, 39:25)
• Try new techniques together, blame the guide if something doesn’t work!
  • “If you don't like them, blame us.” (Xander, 39:25)

7. Avoiding Routine / Keeping Foreplay Fresh (40:57–44:15)

• Small tweaks matter
  • Change locations, try different positions, or use a “foreplay jar” for randomized ideas.
• Routines are okay… at first
  • It’s healthy to find a routine that works and builds confidence, then gradually expand (43:39).

8. When Partners Disagree on Specific Acts (e.g., one loves, one hates)

• Boundaries must be respected
  • Past trauma and personal boundaries are valid reasons to opt out of specific acts.
    • “…don't force yourself to do it. I definitely would encourage you to get some therapy around it…” (Vanessa, 45:57)
• Technique and power dynamics
  • Dislike of acts like blowjobs is often about technique and confidence. Demeaning feelings may be cultural; learning new techniques can transform the experience (47:34–49:32).
  • Empowering aspect: “There is truly nothing like pleasuring a man and knowing you have all the power in the world over him in that moment.” (Vanessa, 48:48)
• Fairness matters
  • It’s not fair to expect oral in return if you refuse to give it (Vanessa, 53:04).
  • Each partner must accept if a certain act is a “non-negotiable” for the other.

9. It’s Okay If You Don’t Love Foreplay

• Some women just aren’t that into foreplay/receiving certain acts
  • “I talk often about the fact that I don’t love receiving oral sex … it’s just not a technique issue.” (Vanessa, 57:02)
• Check for technique or emotional blockages first.
  • But ultimately, it’s normal for preferences to differ—and nothing is “wrong” with you.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• “Everything counts as sex. Like, whatever you want sex to be, that’s what sex is. And there is no hierarchy here.”
  —Vanessa (04:24)
• “I think foreplay is really the great equalizer … the great way to get your partner to the point where whatever experience comes next is more pleasurable for both partners.”
  —Xander (01:51)
• “Foreplay is fun. Like, it should be exciting.”
  —Vanessa (11:54)
• “Even if for the person giving it — watching your partner’s pleasure, it’s super hot.”
  —Xander (11:57)
• “If you can’t name with complete confidence the top three techniques that your partner really likes with foreplay, you should definitely buy our foreplay guides.”
  —Vanessa (15:33)
• “The rule should be the person receiving it gets to dictate how much time they want spent on that.”
  —Vanessa (33:05)
• “Just focus on the pleasure. And also the way you feel about the balance of time… is going to change once you get that pleasure balanced.”
  —Xander (36:10)
• “Blame us. If you don't like them, blame us.”
  —Xander (39:25)
• “There is truly nothing like pleasuring a man and knowing you have all the power in the world over him in that moment.”
  —Vanessa (48:48)
• “It’s not fair to expect oral sex in return if you’re not willing to do it.”
  —Vanessa (53:04)
• “We gotta give sex the respect that it deserves... it is a key element of a relationship that is beyond friends.”
  —Xander (54:12)
• “Just because that’s not you doesn’t mean that something is wrong with you.”
  —Vanessa (57:44)
• “Foreplay for the next time starts second that you’re done.”
  —Vanessa (59:06)

Notable Timestamps

• [02:46]: Why Vanessa and Xander "hate" the word "foreplay"
• [05:33]: Key statistics about women’s orgasms and how intercourse isn’t the main source of pleasure
• [11:06]: How to start conversations about foreplay with a hesitant or non-reciprocal partner
• [17:51]: The challenge of unclear communication—why implied requests for foreplay often get missed
• [23:22]: Rethinking everything as foreplay—from kindness to “chore play”
• [33:05]: Foreplay should be determined by the receiver’s needs
• [39:25]: Using the podcast or guides as tools to try new things and ease awkward conversations
• [48:48]: Reclaiming power and enjoyment in giving pleasure
• [53:04]: On fairness and reciprocation in sexual acts
• [57:02]: Vanessa shares her personal lack of preference for receiving oral sex

Summary Takeaways

• Foreplay is not “extra”—it’s core to most people’s sexual pleasure and satisfaction, especially for women.
• Open, honest, playful communication is vital — both partners should share and explore preferences without shame or blame.
• Expand your definition of foreplay — anything that builds excitement or connection counts.
• Boundaries matter — but technique education and attitude shifts can help resolve mismatches.
• Don’t sweat routines; build confidence first, then expand your playbook together.

For more practical guidance, listeners are encouraged to explore Vanessa & Xander’s foreplay guides and consider their Deeper membership for expert-backed resources and hands-on exercises.