B (2:41)

And together we have a business where we help couples keep the spark alive in long term relationships. So today we are going to get into questions about why scheduling sex feels so awkward, why guys are so into swallowing and how to make requests of the bedroom and so, so much more. Okay, so let's actually dive into that question about swallowing. Somebody asked us, why are guys so into swallowing? So as our resident guy tell us.

A (3:09)

Okay, well, I gotta admit, I saw this question on here and I was think. I've been thinking about it for a couple of minutes and it's a, that's a tough question because I feel like I kind of question the premise of this question. It's, I'm not sure that guys are so into swallowing. Like, I feel like I hear the question often, like, what I feel when it comes to like blow jobs and stuff or, or whatever. I feel like more often it's like, oh, why are guys so into like coming on their partner or something like that? I don't really think of swallowing necessarily as like a specific thing that guys are super into. I think that when it comes to swallowing, I think that there can be a dynamic where when a partner doesn't swallow, it can kind of create a little bit of almost like body shaming to the guy. Because like if your experience is we're having oral sex to completion, my partner is giving me a blowjob and then I finish and all of a sudden my partner jumps up and is like, obviously in a bit of, I don't know, discomfort or slightly gross doubt. Like, and spitting out my, my semen. Like you kind of come away feeling like, ooh, like my partner just did something for me that they don't really, like they don't really enjoy. That kind of grosses them out.

B (4:39)

Yeah.

A (4:40)

And, and then I kind of come away feeling a little icky about that.

B (4:44)

Yeah.

A (4:45)

Like, why did I ask my, like why do I want my partner to do something that's grosses them out? And so I don't think it's so much that guys are into swallowing. I think guys just like don't want to be like mentioned. Yeah. Just, just like women, I think men and women both want to receive oral sex that their partner is actually giving in a, in an enjoyable, like in a way, in a very giving way and not in a begrudging, oh, I guess I'll do it, but I have to spit Your shit out, you know, like your shit.

B (5:18)

Yeah, I mean, so whenever we talk, this is a hot button issue. I'm like, oh, boy, we're gonna get people riled up right from the very beginning.

A (5:23)

But I wanna be clear. I'm not. I'm not saying that you have to swallow and we can get back to what I'm saying about this.

B (5:29)

Yeah, no, I mean, I always like to be clear that our perspective is everybody gets to decide what they wanna do with their own body. We're not here, like, making up rules or saying everybody has to do this. Think it's really valuable for people to imagine themselves with the roles reversed. Like we seem to have. There's this cultural idea that it's totally okay to spit. And I think a lot of women even talk openly about, like, ew, yeah, why would everyone want to swallow that? That's so gross. I'm definitely spitting it out. But if we flip the roles, like, if you're a woman, imagine your partner goes down on you. You come and then they come up like. Like wiping their face, running to the bathroom. Like, you can hear them spl. Trying to spit it all out. Like, that would feel so horrible. Right. So that's. I think that's the main point that we're trying to make here is like, treat your partner the way that you want to be treated. But yeah, it's not that the only options are spitting versus swallowing. You can also just ask your partner to give you a heads up when they're about to come and have them come somewhere else if you don't want them to come in your mouth. But also the thing that, like, always cracks me up about spitting versus swallowing is when you spin spit, you're actually holding the semen in your mouth way longer.

A (6:43)

Yeah. And having to taste it. If the taste is something that.

B (6:47)

The texture is something that. And a lot of people have, like, textural issues. It's where a lot of people, like, they're not overtly trying to body shame their partner. So I want to make sure we say that too. It's like more of, oh, I have issues with textures or stuff like that. But yeah, I think it's interesting because when you spit, you hold it in your mouth so, so much longer. Especially if you're someone who's like running to the bathroom, you're holding it for a long time in your mouth versus if you swallow, it's literally like there's.

A (7:16)

Yeah.

B (7:16)

The second that it's in your mouth, it's gone from your mouth. So you don't actually end up like, I've never. People, like, women complain all the time about the textural issue. And I'm like, I've never noticed the texture because it's just immediately down my throat.

A (7:30)

Yeah. And I mean, here's an idea. If, if even, you know, if you're like, oh, I'm like, left with a slightly weird taste in my mouth or a slightly, slightly squeaked out by the texture, have a glass of water, have a glass of juice, something with a stronger flavor, ready by the bed, take a sip, and like, boom, it's gone. It sets so much faster than, like, running to the bathroom and then it's been in your mouth for all that amount of time.

B (7:56)

And also, we have to normalize that bodily fluids don't taste like candied sugar gum.

A (8:03)

It's not supposed to taste good. It's also not supposed to taste disgusting. Yeah.

B (8:07)

But just tastes like an organ. It tastes like bodily fluids. So I think we also. Part of this is just normalizing. Like, it's okay if it doesn't taste that great to you. Like, that's just bodies doing body stuff.

A (8:17)

Yeah. I mean, honestly, I think, like, a lot of our hang ups around bodily fluids for both men and for women come from some internalized shame around sex. Like, but, like, the reality is, is like, once we come to terms with our own shame and the way we've been brought up around sex, like, the reality is sex is hot and bodily fluids are a part of sex, and they can be a very hot and sexy fun part of the experience. Like, you can't really have sex without bodily fluids being involved. And so, like, yeah, if, if we're gonna, if we're gonna be so hung up, we' examining where this hang up is coming from. We're not open to thinking, huh, how could I give oral sex in a way that would feel fun and exciting throughout the whole way? Or like, same for your partner? Or then, like, like, why, like, why are we doing it in the first place? And that's not to say that if oral sex grosses you out, great, you got a free pass. Like, don't do it. Like, I would say, can we get to the bottom of what's coming up for you? Can we figure out how to make it enjoyable one way or the other? You know, like, you gave the example of, hey, if you are finding. Really, I just cannot find a way to swallow or to spit where I'm not grossed out by something. Like, how about. Yeah, then can you. Can, you know, can we, like, finish with my hand and you come on me or you come on yourself or something. But like, still like, yeah, but the bottom line is like, can we find a way to make that fun and exciting and sexy rather than like a lesser than? Because I think that's what a lot of guys come away feeling like my partner doesn't want to give me oral sex, but feels like they're obligated to. No, wants obligatory sex. No one wants obligatory blow jobs. And I think that a lot of guys end up feeling like they're in this kind of catch 22 position where it's like they want to experience oral sex from time to time, just like most women want to experience oral sex from time to time. And I feel like men and women could really, like, find some common ground here because I think that both men and women have the experience of like, I want to have this experience, but I have this hangup that my partner's maybe not really that into it or they don't want to like freely give it to me. Yeah. And it's like, guys just get our foreplay guides and figure out how to have a lot of fun doing it. It's easy. It takes like 20 minutes of reading and you'll have a bunch of ideas, tips, and honestly, once you know what you're doing and have confidence that it's going to be amazingly good for your partner, most people are like, holy shit, this is actually fun. I'm getting enjoyment out of this now. I'm not like blundering around in the D.

B (11:05)

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A (13:49)

All right, I think we beat that one to death. Shall we continue on? Sure. All right. Am I crazy for thinking my partner sometimes lasts too long in bed? No option for a quickie with us?

B (14:02)

Okay, so to answer the question, no, you're not crazy. Like, everybody is allowed to have their own preferences about how long they want sex to last. And I think this is a really big misconception between men and women about how long sex should last. I think a lot of men have sensitivity around not lasting long enough, coming too quickly. And so there are a lot of men who feel like they need to last longer or the key to great intercourse is lasting as long as possible. I mean, we always talk about the songs that we grew up with. Talking about, like, you know, having sex all night long sounds terrible to me, but I think so many of us have that in our heads that good sex is long sex. And it's really interesting. Like, the question of how long do you like intercourse to last? Or the entire sexual experience to last. That's such an important question for couples to ask each other, but very, very few couples have ever actually talked about that. So here's your opportunity to press pause on this episod. Ask your partner. Hey, funny question. I was listening to a podcast episode about this. We've never talked about it before. What is your ideal length for intercourse? What is your ideal length for the entire overall sexual experience? Like, talk about this with your partner.

A (15:20)

Yeah, and we, we have actually surveyed this with our audience. And the vast, vast, vast majority of people are looking for intercourse to last within the 5 to 10 minute or the 10 to 15 minute range. And with more women are looking for that 5 to 10 minute, and slightly more men are thinking that it should be that 10 to 15ish minutes. But yeah, like, they're very, very, very few people that are actually desiring like 30 plus minutes.

B (15:56)

Yeah.

A (15:57)

Of intercourse.

B (15:57)

I don't want 30 plus minutes of intercourse.

A (16:00)

There's a very small minority of who do want that. And they also, just for what it's worth, they are extremely satisfied with their sex lives. But those are a subset of people who have found each other. They're basically people who have found each other where, like, hey, sex. Intercourse is really important to me. I. I love it. I love going for a long time. My partner loves going for a long time. And like, that's what we do. Just like, you know, we have different people have different hobbies. Like, long. They p. These people have a long sex hobby and they're really happy with it because they're doing what they love. But the vast majority of everybody else is not looking for that. And so I think that, you know, that that can be helpful to just, to know, to kind of take that pressure off.

B (16:42)

Here's another variation on the question, though, is ask your partner. Like, okay, let's say it's a random, you know, weeknight where we're just trying to connect with each other versus maybe it's on the weekend when the kids are gone or when we go on a getaway, just the two of us. Like, those are very different things. I mean, for me personally, a random weeknight, like, I'm looking for a shorter experience overall versus if it's, you know, we're on vacation somewhere, we have like, all the time in the world, then I'm happier to go for longer. But I think people tend to have different preferences based on the, you know, specific instance.

A (17:18)

All right, so I think you've covered one possibility here for, you know, am I Crazy for thinking my partner sometimes lasts too long in bed. Actually, I just realized as I reread it, they wrote sometimes, which I'm curious. Curious now, are they saying how often? Yeah, how often is sometimes. Because that does, like, that does lead me more down the path that you went down, which is that this could be a misunderstanding of expectations around how long sex should last. But. But then they're also saying, no option for a quickie. So then I'm also thinking maybe it's not just sometimes, like, it's more often. So that makes me think. There's two other possibilities beyond misunderstanding, I think, think. Or that I can think of the other. The one is that that it is very possible to have a problem with delayed ejaculation, which is basically taking too long to get there. Or not too long, but longer than you would like. There's also the third possibility of this could be a potential death grip scenario where you've trained yourself to only react to a very certain type of stimulation. And so it can take very long with any other type of normal stimulation.

B (18:29)

Yeah, I mean, those two are pretty close, I guess.

A (18:31)

Yeah, they can be in the same category.

B (18:33)

Yeah. I mean, so some men do have. We call it delayed ejaculation. There is no specific timeline for it, though. It's not like, oh, if you last longer than 30 minutes or whatever. It's really a subjective experience, and it's based more on the man's experience of his own body. Is he like, oh, my God, I'm trying to come and I just can't get there. Like, it's taking longer than I want it to take. So there are a lot of different potential causes for this. One of the most common ones is medications, particularly anti anxiety or antidepressant medications can make it a lot harder to reach orgasm. The death grip is also another really common reason for this, that he's trained his body to need this very intense stimulation that he can't experience during vaginal intercourse. I actually don't know what the gender was of this couple, but it can happen with couples of all orientations. It can also be more like psychological or emotional. Like sometimes men struggling with sexual shame or guilt, having baggage of their upbringing. Maybe purity culture can make it really difficult to get there because your brain has sort of associated orgasm with being wrong and naughty and sex with being forbidden or taboo. So it makes it harder to get there. So, yeah, it could be that as well.

A (19:51)

Yeah, I mean, I know that I've had periods of time where I struggled with taking longer than I wanted to. And it was kind of like the seesaw effect of having perf. Having some type of performance issues. And you know, this was very early in our relationship when neither of us, when neither of us were well equipped to really discuss performance issues or how we were actually feeling around them. And honestly, I think it was also in that very early period where we were kind of coming to terms with the fact that I wasn't the great greatest supportive partner in the very beginning of our relationship around supporting your orgasm. And so for like, there was a number of things happening there where I was realizing, oh, I haven't been a very supportive partner to Vanessa and making sure that, you know, in, in, in like encouraging her to have an orgasm and doing the things that we need in order for her to get there so that it's not over when I'm done, then, you know, then there's also sometimes, you know, having a little premature ejaculation and feeling really bad about that and then getting your head thinking, I gotta last a long time, I gotta last a long time. I gotta last a really long time. Right? And you're. And then, you know, there's things that guys do, there's stereotypical things like thinking about other stuff like baseball or non sexy things to try to get yourself to last longer. And that can be a really good short term strategy. The problem is once you start to check out mentally, you can really totally check out and like your body stops responding. So then all of a sudden you're like, okay, yeah, I'm like doing this thing, but I'm like, I can't get any closer now. I've totally like shut this, you know, shut this kind of like brain, body connection off. And so yeah, I definitely had a couple of times where I was so focused on lasting longer for your sake that then after you came, then I was like, oh God, what, what the hell am I supposed to do now? And so yeah, that, that, that can be challenging. And I think that if that's. If you've gotten yourself into a place like that where you're like not feeling super connected to your body or your pleasure because you are trying to, you know, kind of do a solid for your partner or something like that or, or you're really, really focused on like not coming too fast because you have some shame around some performance issues you've had in the past, that could be a great thing to talk about in therapy to try to work on because it's really just coming to terms with your own shame and getting More comfortable just talking openly with your partner about what's going on and often just getting a little encouragement from your partner of, like, hey, you know, like. Like, let's just. Let's just go for it. You know, like, don't. Don't be so worried about me. Sometimes you just need a little bit of. Of encouragement from your partner to kind of let things loose. All right, all right, next up, how do I bring up things I liked in the bedroom that my ex used to do to my new partner?

B (22:53)

Okay, first thing, don't say carefully, carefully, don't say, my ex used to do this thing that I really loved. Can you do that? Nobody wants to be compared to somebody's ex in the bedroom, so do not ever mention your ex and feedback in the same sentence. So instead, what I would do is I would use the dream scheme. This is our favorite technique for bringing up something in the bedroom is tell your partner, hey, I had this dream last night that you were doing XYZ to me, and it was so hot in the dream, and now I can't stop thinking about it.

A (23:30)

Or like, my mind was wandering today at work, and I just, like, kind of got this fantasy in my head, and I couldn't get rid of. Couldn't stop thinking about it. If the dream thing feels a little bit too far on the side of, like, not being fully honest this way because, like, that, then you're.

B (23:47)

I think it's a play. Like, it's a little lie, of course, but I think it's a playful one, and it's in service of your relationship. There's nobody that's being harmed by it. It's just a way to, like, gently open up the conversation. Because the. The main fear when you're giving feedback to your partner is that they're going to hear it as you're doing a bad job. And most people are so nervous about hurting their partner's feelings that then they actually end up, like, over expl. Making it, like, building it up to a way that. Then it does sound bad to your partner where you're like, hey, so I wanted to talk to you about something. And don't get upset. It's a good thing. I don't want you to get upset, but I would really like you to do this to me in bed. If you say it like that, your partner is definitely gonna feel defensive, feel hurt, feel like they're doing something wrong. So we really recommend making requests in a very positive, lighthearted, sexy way. Like, you know what sounds so hot to me? If you were to do this to me, that would feel so good. You can even say that your partner did it in the past. So a lot of times people are wanting things that their partner used to do but hasn't really done for a while. Most of us in long term relationships, the more sex we have, we kind of tend to narrow down our window of what we do during sex. So reminding your partner, like, hey, you know what memory popped into my mind the other night when you used to do this to me or, you know, that time that you did XYZ to me?

A (25:14)

Yeah. Or maybe something where they, where they were very close to do to doing the thing that maybe your ex did more frequently. Like, think of what is the closest thing or like, when was a moment where it was like, you know, it maybe would have been logical for the next thing for them to do to be that thing. Like if you can come up with something like that, then, then you could tie it to that and be like, oh, I was thinking about that time when we were you, blah, blah, blah, a couple years ago and was kind of wondering, would you want to take the next step with that? Or something like that.

B (25:46)

Yeah. Again, it's just framing it in a positive way and you're making your partner feel like they've already won, they've already done a good job. It's like presenting it to them in this way that feels really fun rather than like, oh, you never do this thing and I need you to do it.

A (26:00)

Okay, question for you, because I think for the cynical person that is really worried about this, because maybe there are some tricky feelings around the exes. What if your partner then goes, so what if you say that to me? You suggest something to me that we've not actually ever done before? And what if I am like, what if I'm like, kind of jealous about your ex or whatever. It's been a touchy subject before. What if I go like, oh, have you ever done that before? Like, what are you supposed to say? Because I think that that kind of is what is behind some of this is that worry of like, are you supposed to then be honest with. Oh, well, I actually have before. And they're like, oh, well, who? Like, with who?

B (26:46)

I would probably. That's a good question. I'd probably say no just because I think this is again, one of those scenarios where honesty, like, honesty is not always the number one most important thing. Sometimes honesty is very cruel and unk. And I think that that question, like, have you ever done this before? Have you done this with an ex. That's a bad question. Somebody's like, digging for. What's the opposite of, like, fishing for compliments? Like, fishing for.

A (27:15)

Digging for insults.

B (27:16)

Digging for insults.

A (27:18)

You're like, yeah, I like. I like digging because it's like you are. You're digging yourself a hole. Digging. Digging for insults.

B (27:24)

Digging for insults. So it's like, it's a bad question to begin with, but I think if you tell your partner, like, like, I mean, you could say, like, I don't think that's a very useful question or a very useful, like, conversation for us to have then your partner.

A (27:36)

But if you say your partner knows.

B (27:38)

Oh, well, then you definitely did, didn't you? So I would probably err on the side of just saying, like, no. I'm really just more focused on, like, you and me and our sex life. So I think that that's, you know, yes, it is lying to your partner, but I think it's a lie that doesn't cause harm. It actually avoids the harm. There's just nothing. There's nothing use. Unless you're like, a super secure couple and you, like, you and I have.

A (28:03)

Talked about stuff before. I have zero problem with that. Also, it's been so fucking long. Like, who the fuck cares, man?

B (28:11)

So for some couples, you might feel fine saying, like, oh, yeah, actually I did do it with a patent partner in the past, and, like, I liked it. And I think it'd be even hotter for you to do it to me. So you make it seem like, you know, it's a. Yeah, I got some inspiration from the past, but, like, I'm focused on you, on us having sex together. So for some couples, it might be totally fine, but for a lot of couple, like, if you have the sense that your partner's gonna get hurt, feel jealous, get upset, it's just like, just skirt around it. Don't. Don't go on that path.

A (28:38)

I mean. Yeah, I guess that got me thinking. You could say you could kind of toe the line of like, half truth, half lie, of, like, depending on the situation, of course. But, like, you know, it could be. Oh, yeah. You know, like, I, like, we like, kind of tried that one time and, like, I was. It was like, like kind of enjoyable for me, but, like, my partner wasn't that into it, so we never did it again. And, like, I would love to explore that more. I feel like that's. That's an invitation to your partner of like. Of like, you've set the bar really low for them. Like, for them to come in and Exceed that where they go, oh, okay, awesome. Like they kind of tried it once but like the partner, like the other, the X didn't really do it very well or, or whatever. Or wasn't into it. So now this is my opportunity to show my partner like how, you know, how much better I am. I will say though, I do want to call out though. Like the, like, I think it's important to call out if you are super worried that your partner is going to be super jealous because they've pulled like that before. I do think that's important to call out. That's a, that's a, that is a serious red flag for long term committed relationships if you feel like you cannot bring up something that you'd like to try because your partner will likely try to figure out is this something that you tried with a partner and if so, they don't want to touch it with a 10 foot pole because they're so threatened or jealous like that. That's not a, that's not the recipe for long term success. Yeah. Because you can't like. Yeah. I mean like this isn't like severance where you can.

B (30:17)

Oh, okay.

A (30:19)

It's not like there's not like relationship severance where it's like, okay, we're in a new relationship and now zero past history.

B (30:25)

Yeah.

A (30:25)

We have zero past experiences. I never want to know, I never need to know anything about anything that ever happened to you because you definitely never were sexually active with anybody else.

B (30:36)

Yeah.

A (30:36)

So I just want to kind of call a spade a spade. Like that type of behavior is, is, is not great and is not a good sign for how they might behave in other ways later on your relationship.

B (30:50)

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A (33:30)

Let's keep moving. I find it really awkward to schedule sex. How do I get over that?

B (33:35)

Well, let's start with most people dislike the idea of scheduled sex because we've all been taught to believe that sex should be spontaneous. Like when you see sex scenes on TV and in the movies, it always looks very spontaneous and effortless and. And so most of us grow up believing that's what it's supposed to look like. So the whole idea of, like, having to schedule sex usually trips people up because they take it as a sign that, oh, the spark's gone, the chemistry's not there, I'm not with the right person.

A (34:06)

And I mean, the spark is totally gone in Vanessa and my relationship. We might not be with the right people because guess what guys, Vanessa basically scheduled sex with me for later today.

B (34:18)

I did.

A (34:18)

She did. She did. But she didn't do it in a. She didn't do it in a. In an awkward way. She did it in a really fun and exciting way.

B (34:28)

So here's the thing with scheduling sex. Like, we really get into the nuance and specifics of how to schedule it in deeper our couples membership. We'll put a link to check that out in the show notes. But the main thing that I want to get across is, like, you can definitely schedule it in an awkward, boring way. Like, okay, you know, I guess we'll put it on the Wednesdays from, you know, 8:30 to 8:45pm hey, baby, I guess it's time. I guess, I guess it's been a while. It's our day.

A (35:01)

Come on, come on, we have to go do this. I know we don't want to.

B (35:05)

Yeah. But that is not the only way to schedule sex. And nor is that our recommended way of scheduling sex. There are a ton of different ways ways to do it, but it really is all about, like, the feel behind it. So the other thing about scheduling sex that we like to remind people of is most people will tell us, you know, oh, well, in the beginning of the relationship, we didn't have to schedule it. It did just happen.

A (35:28)

Lies.

B (35:28)

Lies. If you really think about it, at the beginning of your relationship, when you're dating somebody, you are, what, making dates with each other and you're, what, putting those dates on your calendar. You're scheduling those dates. And when you start having with each other, it is pretty much guaranteed that when you have a date with each other, you are having sex. You have been scheduling sex from the very beginning. You just didn't recognize that that's what you were doing.

A (35:57)

Yeah, we kind of fall off of that wagon very often once we start living with each other. And once, you know, once we have to stop, once we stop going out of our way to be like, oh, hey, can I. Can I come over tonight? Or let's go do something tonight. Why once, you know, once you're actually cohabitating in the same space, we, yeah, we. We stop scheduling stuff. Like, we basically stop scheduling intimacy, like, any kind of intimacy with each other and then start feeling like, oh, my God, like, how come we're not having sex? And it's like, well, duh, you're just not doing it the way that you used to. So, yeah, now that you live together, now that you're more serious, maybe it doesn't need to be in this roundabout way that it is at the beginning of a relationship where. Yeah, because at the beginning of a relationship, most people aren't like, hey, let's schedule sex at 9pm and therefore, let's go to dinner at 7pm so that we can get home for the sex at 9pm Right? Like, you're not scheduling it in that way, but, you know, so, yeah, like, you don't need to be do this roundabout. Like, hey, let's go on a date. Wink, wink, wink. But like, you know, you guys are together, you have sex with each other somewhat regularly. Like, can you talk about the sex that you do have and how sex is important to you and how you want to scale, schedule, or plan for doing the things that you enjoy doing that bring you closer emotionally and also physically?

B (37:21)

So one of our favorite tips for this, and this is great, especially for somebody who's new to scheduling sex or feels awkward doing it, is schedule quality time with your partner, not sex specifically. So a lot of people get very hung up on the like, oh, am I committing to have to have sex at this exact date? So skip the sex. Let's just schedule quality time together. So you're carving out time where it's just gonna be the two of you. No phones, no screens, like, just focused on each other, having real quality time. And then you may find that once you start connecting, once you start having fun together, you might feel interested in doing a little something. Something with each other. But even if you aren't, you've still done something really beneficial for your relationship by scheduling that quality time together. Together.

A (38:08)

Yeah. And. And if for some reason there's some worry that that feels like, roundabout or like, indirect, because then, you know, because I think we do hear sometimes from some people being like, oh, well, my partner's scheduling quality time with me, but I know that really he's just like, waiting for me to be open to have sex. To. To be open to having sex with him. Like, you know, you can, you can do kind of the next step, which is, hey, like, I. Like, let's. I would love to carve out some quality time with you later. And, you know, and if we're feeling up for it, possibly having sex, like, so you're setting the, you're, you're. You're setting the wheels in motion and saying, hey, I would love to do this if we are feeling up for it. If we are feeling up for it. And you're saying, but like, I'm wanting to make sure that we are creating the space to help both of us feel open and excited to it by having the quality time. Again, that depends on what is your partner. Partner's sex drive type. Like, you know, understanding how your partner. How sex feels for your partner. Like, is that something that they're Open to immediately. Do they need to have a baseline level of emotional connection? Would they rather just have sex because that makes them feel more emotionally connected? Like, depending on those answers, you're going to structure that differently. But yeah. So it's important to understand what is important to your partner when it comes to sex. It's not just like, the answer is not just, oh, well, you got to have quality time. That's not going to be the answer for every couple. But if you're, you know, we're. This is kind of the stereotypical male, female divide is that, you know, the stereotype is that women need more emotional connection in order to feel open to sex. So it's generally a good idea to think about how can we carve out some more emotional intimacy time before having sex? All right, we're taking a hard right turn here. Vanessa, how to get over a fetish. I have one I can't seem to drop.

B (39:59)

Interesting. I definitely want to know what the fetish is.

A (40:03)

Yeah.

B (40:03)

I'm curious. Okay.

A (40:05)

But the.

B (40:05)

The answer to this is you can't get over a fetish like a fetish. So a fetish for people who don't know the word is like a sexual interest or desire, and it feels very central to your experience. So it's not just a curiosity. It's not just a, you know, oh, I like when we do this, or sometimes this is nice. Like, it often, for a lot of people, it often feels like, like, this is something that I have to experience in order for sex to feel satisfying for me. So it's not something that we can just get rid of. It's the same thing as, like, let's imagine that you really like chocolate and you're like, how do I get rid of liking chocolate? Like, you can't make yourself not. You can choose not to eat it, just like you can choose not to engage in the fetish, but you can. You can't force yourself not to like it.

A (40:57)

Yeah. And you might find yourself. You stop eating chocolate after a couple of months. You might find yourself being like, oh, man, I really miss chocolate. Or you might see other people eating chocolate and be like, oh, God, that looks so good. Like, you can't necessarily turn that part off. Like Vanessa's saying, you can choose to not do something, but you have to accept that there may be some consequences to that in terms of how you feel about it. You may not feel. Feel totally fulfilled.

B (41:24)

Yeah. So when it comes to the fetish in particular, that's why I'm curious about what it is and why you feel like you need to drop it. So it could go in one of two directions. It could be that it's something that you just feel shame and guilt about. And maybe the journey for you is recognizing, like, it's okay to have this interest. You know, we can let go of that shame, we can process that guilt and allow yourself to. To explore something that you really want to explore. So that might be one path. The other path might be maybe it's a fetish that doesn't feel safe to you, that doesn't feel morally okay to you, that you, like. You are very sure that you just don't want to go down that path. That could be the case too. So in that case, again, you can make a choice not to engage in it. But I wouldn't think of it from the perspective of trying to force yourself not to be interested in it. Oftentimes when we try to force ourselves not to want something, it actually makes.

A (42:26)

Us want it more. Backfires.

B (42:27)

Yeah, it's a little reverse psychology. So I wouldn't think of it from that point, but I would think of it from the perspective of the choices that you're deciding to make. And if it is in that direction where it doesn't feel safe or morally okay to you, I would definitely seek some therapy too. There might be some processing. I'm kind of going to more like extreme examples in my head that, you know, I'm not. Again, I'm not sure what it is. It could be as something as like the most common fetish is a foot fetish. And people are just in defeat, but then they feel kind of guilty and bad about it. But it's not a, you know, it's not harming anybody. It's not doing anything like, bad. It's just he likes some tootsies.

A (43:04)

Okay, so what if it's. So you gave some good examples of like, situations sort of internally. Like if it's something that you, you don't want to do. But what if it's something. What if you want to get rid of, Get. I'm putting in quotes, get rid of this fetish because your partner's not open to it or they can't fulfill it.

B (43:25)

I mean, I would think of it still in the same way, like, you can't get rid of it. If your partner's not open to doing it. Then there are, again, two paths. There are. Would your partner be open to letting you explore this fetish on your own or potentially with other partners? A lot of couples are work out arrangements like that or the second option is, you know, if your partner is a hard no, they're not going to be into it, then it becomes for you a decision of, can I choose my partner knowing I'm not ever going to be able to have this central experience? And some people may do that versus do I need to honor something that is so central to my experience and not be with this partner anymore? Which some people do that too. But there is going to be. There's definitely a lot of grief in that path. And I think it's important to acknowledge that.

A (44:16)

Yeah, I think that we kind of downplay fetishes or it's like, oh, it's just this inconvenient thing. But I. I do think that in many ways, if you are. If you. If this thing feels so central to you such. And you feel so strongly that you don't want it, that you're like, what do I do to, like, cut this out of my brain? Basically? Like, is. It's. I would say it's at the. It's at. Is a similar level or an interesting equivalency to wanting to have kids or not wanting to have kids. Like, if you're in a relationship, like.

B (44:49)

It'S a. I have a fetish for having kids.

A (44:50)

No, no, no, no. The breeding fetish. No, but what I'm saying is that it's like, I think that it's similar to, like, if you are like, I will. I really want to have kids. And your partner's like, no, I am not open to having kids. Kids. You have to decide, am I okay with just not having kids and knowing and. And knowing that I really want them and I'm going to be thinking about that for the rest of my life with this partner? Or do I need to say, man, it's been a good run, but this isn't going to work long term. I need to find someone that is open to, you know, that's more compatible with the things that I. That. That from a real baseline level, I desire in life, whether that's kids, whether that's a certain. Certain, you know, sexual fetish. Because, I mean, the reality is most people. Most people would say sex is really important to me, even if I'm not like, you know, wildly sexual and having sex all the time. At the end of the day, if I knew early on in my relationship that my partner would actually prefer to not have sex, most people would be like, yeah, I'm moving on. I'm finding someone that is open to having sex. So we already look at Sex as a legit deal breaker in a relationship. But somehow with fetishes we go, oh, well, that's just a little extra. Like that's not that important. But if, if for you wanting to have that, needing to have that fetish is what your definition of sex is, then arguably you're not really fully having sex. If you're just having, you know, kind of like what are what our default, like floor plan intercourse type of sex is. Like, arguably you're not having the full experience that you want to have. And I think you got to decide, decide if you are open to moving on possibly. Because I do think there is, there is a very healthy and large fetish community out there of like minded people who have desires or fetishes that are beyond what is sort of considered the baseline norm, I guess, in our society. And, and I think the great thing is, you know, if you were wanting to get rid of this fetish, I'm guessing that you are not really inside the fetish community, because inside the fetish community there's a lot of acceptance for all the different fetish and a lot of understanding and a lot of people that really want to help their partner get everything out of sex that they want to get out of because they have the same thing. They, they want their partner to indulge them as well. And so I do think that it could be worth investigating that community because while you may not be getting the acceptance or validation you want from your partner, there is someone out there that can give that to you.

B (47:30)

Okay, I'm going to turn this one over to you as our resident male. How to reassure your partner that he satisfies you just fine even though he has ed.

A (47:42)

Oh, very good question. I mean, I'm assuming that this person is probably is currently trying to reassure their partner in a variety of ways and their partner is not believing or internalizing that. Yeah, right. So, yeah, I mean, I think that I would imagine there's probably some personal work for the partner to do, kind of to come to some acceptance of.

B (48:05)

The, the one with Ed.

A (48:06)

Yeah, the partner with Ed. Like, is there some personal work that you can do on your own or in therapy to kind of come to acceptance of, hey, I. This is a thing that I have and my partner is telling me that they are very satisfied. I would want to know, like, there's also the question though, is the partner with Ed satisfied? Like there could be some level of like, maybe this. They, you know, they are probably in their head about the ED that they have, but also like Are you getting everything that you want out of sex? I would be really curious about that because I do think sometimes especially men feel like they first, they feel like, oh, I'm responsible for my partner's experience before I even get to think about my own experience. And so there could be some.

B (48:55)

Some men.

A (48:56)

Some men. Some men. But. But I know, but I think especially men who are struggling. Struggling with performance issues. Whether that's just specific performance issues or like, things that end up turning into ed, I think that it can be easy to kind of be like, oh, well, I'm. I can't. I don't really deserve to focus on myself until I can get over this thing and like, help my partner out. So, yeah, I do wonder if, you know, is there some. Are there some things that you feel like you are missing that you want. Want and figure out how to work towards those things? But yeah, I mean, I do think that when it comes to reassuring your partner other, outside of any personal work that they could do, I think that it's just a. I mean, it. It's. It's a long, slow process. I think it's just continuing to. Continuing to, to give the. The message to them over and over, over that you are satisfying them. I mean, I do think, I want to be certain that, like. Well, I guess what I'm curious about is this person, like, are they saying, oh, I'm satisfied even though I'm not having orgasms? Like, I do wonder if is the partner with ED not really believing them because they're like, well, it doesn't really seem like you're enjoying yourself that much. Like, are you really fully enjoying yourself? Like, are you having. Are you experiencing pleasure? Are you experiencing orgasms? You're just not getting their penis for.

B (50:24)

Very well, here's the irony about ED is that the penis is actually. Of all the instruments that you have to bring your partner to orgasm, the penis is actually the worst one.

A (50:37)

Ironic.

B (50:37)

It's not very dexterous.

A (50:39)

It's the best one for impregnating them. This is the worst one for pleasure. For pleasure.

B (50:44)

You're way more likely to make your partner feel good with your hands, with your mouth, bring them to orgasm in those ways than you are with your penis so obviously experiencing erectile dysfunction. For anybody who doesn't know what ED means, if you're experiencing erectile dysfunction, that's obviously difficult. An experience that is difficult as a man, you feel emasculated. It can feel frustrating. If you're not experiencing pleasure, of course, that's awful. It's really hard. But I do think that it's really easy to get in your head and think that there's no way you can pleasure your partner. And so the reality is that you can, and maybe even better in better ways. And even more ironically, in the work that I've done with men with ed, when we helped them focus on pleasuring their partner with their hands and their mouths, it gave them so much confidence that they actually started having erections again. Because with erectile dysfunction, it's most often that it is a psychological, mental, emotional issue that's going on.

A (51:54)

On.

B (51:54)

There can be physical causes for it, medications, certain injuries or illnesses, but that tends to be much more rare. So if it's. If this is the case where it's more of a psychological type of ed, then him getting that confidence could be really helpful.

A (52:10)

So I. Yeah, so I think it really comes down to. To the person asking the question. I. There. I think there's two scenarios. And you got. I think you got to get honest with yourself because I don't have any more details. I'm not trying to accuse you of any. Anything, but I would ask, are you truly satisfied because your partner is giving you amazing orgasms with their hands and with their mouth, or are you saying, yeah, I'm. I'm satisfied enough. We're like. Because, like, I'm just like, not that interested in sex or I don't really. I don't really need to have the full experience if it's that one. If it's the latter, I don't think that you're ever going to assure your partner. Partner that you're satisfied because your partner is going to see through that and be like, well, you're definitely not having orgasms. Like, you're not. It doesn't seem like you're really enjoying yourself. So yeah, if it's that, then I would say call a spade a spade. If you truly feel like, you know what, sex just isn't that important to me and I'm fine with us not having it ever or barely ever having it, like play around in your head with. How would it feel to say that to them? I think most people would be like, yeah, that wouldn't feel totally in integrity. Pretty like. Or. Or like I would be worried that maybe that might end our relationship even though my partner has ed. So that might be something for you to consider. Okay, maybe it's time to actually start focusing on me a little bit more. So there's a lot of, you know, foreplay guides. Great place to start again. Or deeper foreplay guides are within deeper plus so much more. Um, but yeah, time to focus on actually letting your partner partner give you an incredible experience. And honestly, probably a better experience than they could give you with their penis alone. But yeah, if. If they are already doing that and they're still not believing you, I think it's just. You just got to continue with it. Oh man, that was so good. I feel so satisfied. Like I love it when you bring me to orgasm. Just. And just be consistent with that.

B (54:13)

Here's the sad truth. Most of us spend more time picking a Netflix show than we do being actual actually present in our relationship.

A (54:21)

And yet research actually shows that your relationship is a bigger predictor of your happiness more than your career or money. But there's never been a clear roadmap to deeper connection and lasting intimacy until now.

B (54:35)

That's why we built Deeper our membership for couples who want to feel closer, more connected and more passionate. If your relationship is in a good place, you'll love the quick wins. Like brand new date night ideas every month, fun conversation prompts, and even Vanessa AI your on demand coach that you can ask anything anytime.

A (54:55)

And if you hit a tougher season, which is totally normal, then Deeper has you covered with our full library of courses and guides so that you can deep dive into exactly what you need most right now. Think communication, connection, desire, pleasure, or exploration. We've got you. It's like having a relationship wellness plan that actually fits into your real life.

B (55:16)

It's the membership that we always wished existed for ourselves. Something in between expensive therapy and trying to just figure it all out on your own. So whether you just want fresh ideas to keep things exciting or you need more structured tools to get back on track, Deeper meets you where you are because your relationship deserves at least as much care as your Netflix cue.

A (55:38)

Curious what your deeper journey might look like? Start with the Intimacy quiz. Your key to love that lasts. This quick quiz helps you uncover what your relationship needs most right now. And you might be surprised because most couples get this one wrong, you'll walk away with a personalized roadmap straight to the point, actionable and designed to help you reconnect with your partner ASAP. So head on over to vmtherapy.com 5keys. That's the number five and then the word keys again, it's vmtherapy.com five keys. And don't worry, we'll also link it in the show notes for you. Okay, Vanessa, how do you help people who have experienced sexual trauma and want to regain a healthy sex life.

B (56:25)

So we actually have an incredible free resource for this. It's a course that I designed years ago for female survivors of sexual trauma and abuse, and we offer it now completely free. You can go to vmtherapy.com free. I believe it's down towards the bottom of the page. We also have a ton of free guides on that page, so everybody should.

A (56:47)

Go check that out. Yeah. Good stuff for everyone.

B (56:48)

Vmtherapy.com free. But this one is called a survivor's guide, and it walks you through very practical steps for reclaiming your sex life and helping sex feel safe, joyful, and pleasurable again. So it is definitely not meant to replace psychotherapy. I highly, highly recommend anybody who experiences any sort of boundary violation. Like, I truly believe that you need to go through therapy to give you, like, to create the space to process the experience. But I created this course because I realized that I had so many people coming to me or saying, I did therapy for this. But we never really talked about. We processed the experience, but we didn't talk about practical steps for moving forward. So this really walks you through specific things that you can do to make sex feel enjoyable again. So definitely go check that out. And again, it was originally made specifically for female survivors. Survivors. But people of any gender can go through it. Just be aware that there's.

A (57:49)

That it's written to women.

B (57:51)

Yeah. And I guess I'll just also normalize that. It is very common and normal for your sex life to be affected. A lot of people really downplay it. Like, it happened so long ago. It wasn't that big of a deal. Other people have experienced far worse. But the reality is, any sort of boundary violation is not okay. It's not something that you should have gone through. And it definitely can impact your experience of sex going forward because you've had this experience that sex is not for you, that your safety isn't important, that your boundaries don't matter. And of course, it would impact your sex life. But unfortunately, a lot of survivors just don't recognize that.

A (58:32)

All right, let's bring it home with what to do if both him and I want the other person to initiate. Get turned on by the other person. Initiate.

B (58:42)

You are.

A (58:43)

You're screwed.

B (58:45)

You are like, almost every couple. Like, we all like our partner to. We all like to feel wanted. We all like our partner, you know, making us feel wanted, telling us, like, I want to be with you. And also, like, let's be real. A lot of us like our partner being the one to take on that vulnerability.

A (59:03)

Yeah, because they don't have to.

B (59:04)

Yeah. It's like, well, I'd rather you do it. So it's totally fine and normal if you get turned on by your partner initiating. I get turned on by Xander, initiating. He gets turned on by me initiating.

A (59:15)

But that can't be the only way you get turned on. That's.

B (59:18)

You guys have to take turns here, so, you know, you can work it out however you want. It doesn't need to be that. It's exactly 50, 50 right down the middle. But we feel really, really strongly that in a relationship relationship, it's important for both partners to initiate, because, again, it is so vulnerable to initiate. And that's a lot of pressure to put on just one person's shoulder, to be the only one doing all of that work.

A (59:45)

Yeah. I mean, I would be really curious the way that you wrote the question. Do both of you legitimately think, well, in my ideal world, the other one would do 100% of the initiating. Is that actually what you want? And is that actually, actually what your partner wants? Like, that's just totally unreasonable because. Yeah. Imagine how, like, you're already saying it. Oh, I. I can't get turned on unless my partner initiates. Or I can't feel turned on unless I get that validation that they want to have sex with me. You're literally saying, oh, that validation or that it's such a big thing for me now be like, okay, well, I. I know how that feels. And my partner's literally telling me the same thing. They feel the same way. So, like, how would. You guys are totally stuck. And so it's like, yeah, the problem is not the initiating. I think the problem is you gotta start opening up the playbook kind of in terms of figuring out, okay, let's gotta maybe think about some other ways that I can feel turned on. Like, it can't just be, oh, the only way that I can feel turned on is if my partner says they want to have sex with me.

B (60:53)

And if you don't feel confident in your initiation, we also have a course called the Art of Initiation that we can link for you in the show notes as well. That will walk you through how to get more confident and give you tons of ideas.

A (61:06)

That one's also in deeper.

B (61:07)

It is something deeper. All right, well, that is the end of our questions, but come join us on Instagram again. Every Sunday, we do ask. If anything, we go over questions just like these and many, many more. So come join us on Instagram. Anessa and Xander. And thank you so much for listening to this episode of Pillow Talks. Join us again next week. We release new episodes every Thursday.