B (2:20)

We decided to do this because, I mean, it's good for us to talk about what's going on and I think that it's also good for other people to hear because people can relate. Like, people have stuff that is happening in their lives right now. People have things that will be happening in their lives. And I think that we don't have a lot of there's not a lot of good role models. I'm not trying to be like or perfect role models, but there's just not a lot of good examples out there of couples talking openly about how they handle the couple part of their relationship and their lives when all kinds of other shit is going on.

A (2:58)

Yeah.

B (2:58)

Because most of us just take our relationships for granted when shit hits the fan and it's like, oh, yeah, well, that thing is just there. I can take my foot off the gas, I can put my foot on the brake. I can close the door on this for months at a time, and it's just going to be there. Right. Like, my partner's going to understand without me ever saying anything about it, because they can read my mind. No, they can't. But, yeah, I think it's important to be able to talk about this kind of stuff because, I mean, the. Hope this isn't a spoiler, but, like, we have a lot of going on, and I think our relationship's in a really good place because we've been doing a really good job. I'm so proud of us.

A (3:47)

I'm really proud of us, too.

B (3:49)

And, yeah, we're. Yeah, we're. We're keeping it. We're keeping the. The fire going in a way that most people wouldn't and in a way that we haven't in the past.

A (3:59)

Yeah.

B (4:00)

In situations like this.

A (4:01)

True.

B (4:02)

And I can really. Only. The only thing I can really credit to that is we're talking about it more. And so this is us just practicing what we preach.

A (4:13)

Okay. Shall we get into it?

B (4:15)

Yeah.

A (4:16)

Okay. Well, so first we have to, like, share the backstory of what is going on, which is that my dad is dealing with a really, really serious health situation right now. My dad has stage four cancer.

B (4:35)

And this all happened very quickly. There's backstory, but, like, the stage four element of it was kind of an overnight development.

A (4:43)

Well, I'm gonna. I'll share the backstory. So my dad was first diagnosed with cancer about a year and a half ago. Bladder cancer. It was a low grade. It was just within his bladder, and he had this treatment called bcg. It successfully treated the cancer. It was not, like a pleasant journey, but overall, it was like, I was actually just shocked by how straightforward it was.

B (5:09)

Like, and it was one of those things where multiple people, doctors and also, like, you know, we shared about this on. On social media, on this podcast, and so many people being like, oh, is like, as crazy as it sounds to say this, like, this is like the best cancer that you can get. This is like the best. If you're going to deal with. This is the best situation to have, is caught early. There's really, really super effective treatments. Most people, you know, achieve full remission. It's a blip. It's a blip on the radar.

A (5:40)

Yeah, so that was a year and a half ago. So then earlier this year, we didn't know it at the time, but found out later that he was dealing with, he was having some symptoms. And it unfortunately took a while to get in to the doctor and took a lot of like having to advocate for himself and my mom having to advocate for him to like actually get these symptoms, like really checked out, which over going through this whole thing. There's also this thread of like how much the medical system fucking sucks and how much you have to advocate for yourself or have somebody to advocate for you. It's just been madden. It just kills me, like looking back now of like, what could have happened if he got in sooner. Like, there's just so many, so many what ifs. Okay, so they ran a bunch of tests. He gets a message from his Doctor at like 10 o' clock at night saying, we think that the cancer could be back. Go to the ER immediately. Or he didn't get it until the morning after sleeping.

B (6:46)

He received it at night.

A (6:47)

He received it at night, got it in the morning. And it was like, you know, his doctor saying, go to the ER immediately. So he woke up and it was like this really stressful, like, holy, I gotta go into the er. So they got him into the er, they're running a bunch more tests. They end up deciding to do a procedure to like, see if they can, you know, go in and figure out what's going on. So they have this procedure done. It was also impacting his kidneys. So they were wanted to like also put some stents into his kidneys, into the ureters to help the kidneys function better. So they do this procedure. It's a little scary. Cause it's like all happening so quickly. And his doctor tells us like, okay, we went in there, we found a mass, we biopsied it, we're gonna test it. But I would be shocked if this is cancer. Like, it does not look like cancer. It looks like in rare cases from the BCG treatment, it can irritate the walls of the bladder and create these growths. So we're like, whew, okay, it's fine. It's not cancer. Like it was very definitive. The doctor was like, I would be shocked if this came back as cancer. So he goes through this procedure. You know, it's. It's a procedure. It's still, like, difficult to recover from.

B (7:59)

Yeah. He was in the hospital for, like, a day or two.

A (8:01)

Yeah. So then a few days later, get the call from the doctor. I'm so sorry. It actually is cancer. And the doctor said, you know, this is looking. It's looking pretty aggressive. We think it's gone through the walls of the bladder, and that's like, a big deal with bladder cancer. Like, when the bladder. When the cancer is just within the bladder, it's a lot easier to treat. When it starts to go through the muscle walls of the bladder, that means it's more aggressive, it's more difficult to treat. Because now you're, like, getting into muscle and all that.

B (8:31)

It's spreadable.

A (8:31)

Yeah. So at that point, they start saying, okay, there's two treatment options. We can fully remove the bladder, which is a gnarly surgery. Like, months of recovery, really intense. Like, at least a week in the hospital.

B (8:46)

You'll never pee again.

A (8:47)

Yeah. He'd have to have a bag on the outside of his body for the rest of his life. Or they can do the immunotherapy and chemotherapy route, which they were worried initially, like, you know, it might not work fast enough to, like, contain the growth of this cancer. So we're trying, you know, we're going back and forth. What's the best solution? What's the best thing to do? What do we do? And so in the meantime, he gets a PET scan, which is supposed to show you where the cancer is currently located. And I also have to give this caveat as I'm going through this, that, like, I'm not a medical doctor. Neither am I. Yeah, neither of us are. We're giving our, you know, our retellings, but this is all, like, very confusing, and we don't, you know, we don't know all the full details. So the PET scan comes back showing that the cancer is just located within the bladder. So we're, like, celebrating, like, oh, my God, this is so much better. We had thought, you know, the doctor thought, I. I think it's gone through the walls, which makes it more serious. But now we're getting confirmation it's just within the bladder. It's not as serious. So we're, like, celebrating. This is so great. Such a relief. And so they decide, let's do the surgical route. Let's just get the whole thing out, take care of it once and for all. We're done with It. He can't come back if he doesn't have a bladder anymore. So my dad gets on board emotionally with the idea of doing this really gnarly surgery, of having a bag outside of the bag.

B (10:10)

That was a whole process.

A (10:10)

It was a whole process. But we're like, okay, this is the right solution. This is what we gotta do. The surgery had to take place in la. Fortunately, he got this connection to be seen at this Incredible Hospital in LA. But, like, you know, we live in Santa Barbara, 90 minutes away. So we had this whole setup of, like, we rented an Airbnb, we had this whole schedule of who's coming down to support on different days.

B (10:33)

Yeah, we need to be down there for, like, one to two weeks. He's going to be in the hospital for a week. They recommended having a place for him to be there for the next week once he's discharged, because he's still going to be needing to see the doctors.

A (10:46)

So we start the surgery. I went down there with my brother and my cousin to be with my mom. We start the surgery. The four of us, you know, leave the hospital. We're going to get breakfast. And the surgeons had told us, like, okay, we're going to start the surgery. We'll give you a call in a couple of hours. We kind of, like, take a midway break. And so my family and I were sitting, you know, finishing breakfast up. We're actually, like, in really good spirits. My dad had been in great sports spirits and, you know, just like, feeling like, okay, we're. We're on the path, we're getting started, and so we're just finishing up, and my mom's phone rings. And I think instantly, all of us in that moment just knew, like, it's only been, like, 45 minutes. Like, this is not good to be getting a call this soon. And so we, like, rush out of the restaurant. You know, we're just, like, in the parking lot, some random parking lot, and the doctor says, you know, hey, I started the surgery. I opened him up, and I can see that the cancer has spread a lot. It's in his stomach. It's, you know, all around, like, his pelvic floor area. It's, you know, in the right, like, everywhere. And it's in his lymph nodes. And the lymph nodes are really bad because your lymph system is. Goes throughout your entire body. And it's very easy for the cancer to just spread everywhere once it gets into the lymph nodes. So he said, I can't continue with the Surgery. We have to close him up and just stop here. I can't remove. It doesn't make sense to do the surgery because I can't remove all the cancer surgically. Now. His only option is to do immunotherapy. And if, you know, if we were to do the surgery, he wouldn't be able to start immunotherapy. So, yeah, that was just like crushing, crushing news and so confusing. Like, how did we get this? You know, it's just been this back and forth. Like, it's just in the bladder. No, it's outside the bladder. No, it's just in the bladder. No, it's everywhere. Like, it just is such a fucking roller coaster. And. Yeah, so we, you know, then have to, like, talk to the doctor more. And he says, you know, it's stage four cancer, it's very aggressive, it's spread a lot of different places. And, you know, really the only hope for treatment is this immunotherapy, which works really well for about 30 to 40% of people. And I asked him, like, okay, but what about the 60 to 70%? And he said, like, gave us a timeline, like a life expectancy that I'm not gonna repeat because I just, I refuse to accept it. And I don't even want to, like, put that energy out there, but I'll just say it was like, extremely short and just absolutely crushing to hear that. So then we had to, like, ugh. Yeah, then we had to, like, wake my dad up. And he was so confused, you know, because here he was thinking he was about, you know, having an, like an eight hour surgery when I doubt he.

B (14:04)

Even had a conception of time. You're waking up and you're thinking, oh, I'm coming, I'm coming out the other end. You're, you know, you're anesthetized. You have no idea how long it's been. Yeah, it's not like sleeping at night where you can tell, oh, I have not been asleep for very long. Like, you're coming out of it, assuming it's over.

A (14:23)

Yeah, just trying. He was really confused and having to like, explain to him, like, you didn't actually have the surgery. And it's actually way worse than we thought. Was just horrific. Like, really, truly, truly horrific.

B (14:39)

Yeah, I can't imagine. I mean, I had serious surgery one time where I was fully under. And like, the. I mean, my memory of those first couple hours coming out of it are pretty hazy because you're really drugged and it's confusing. It's confusing enough when you Have a successful surgery. It's just like what is going on here? And trying to have serious things explained to you just seems so hard.

A (15:04)

Yeah, so that was, that was a real low just seeing him like in that state, just like so fragile and tender and. Yeah, just having this like absolutely horrible, horrible prognosis was really, really hard. And then we just had to like go home, which was so. Like we just had this plan to be down in LA for so long and then we like it. Honestly, it felt like the hospital was just like, okay, please get out of here now. And I was like, oh my God. Like he's, he's been cut open eight times. Like, yeah, the surgery didn't, you know, go through, but I don't know, it was really, it was really weird to just like go home after that. I bet you didn't know that a pillowcase could be the reason why your skin has blemishes and your hair is breaking. I had no idea either. And so I was really excited to find out about Blissey's silk pillowcases. They can help you have healthier skin and hair in weeks. I mean, think about it. We are spending so much time on our pillows with our hair, our faces on our pillows and the fabric that they are made out of really matters. Silk has anti aging properties. It reduces fine lines and wrinkles over eliminates frizz in your hair, can preserve your hairstyle and protects color treated hair.

B (16:33)

And it feels great.

A (16:35)

Yeah, it feels really nice. Very cooling to sleep on. Blissey pillowcases are award winning dermatologist recommended, featured on Oprah, Good Housekeeping, Allure and so many more. And because you're a listener, Blissey is offering 60 nights risk free plus an additional 30% off when you shop@blissey.com Pillow Pod. That's B L I S S Y do and use code Pillow Pod to get an additional 30% off. We are both obsessed with our Blissy pillowcases. And we know that your skin and hair will thank you, Xander and I and 30% of US adults are teeth grinders at night.

B (17:23)

Sad. Sad to admit it, but it's true.

A (17:26)

And we both unfortunately found out about this from our dentist who then had to explain to us all the dangers and consequences of teeth grinding.

B (17:34)

All the damage that I had already done to myself.

A (17:37)

So that's why we're really grateful to be able to tell you about Remy. Their custom night guards are clinically tested to prevent teeth grinding, reduce jaw tension and facial muscle strain, and improve sleep quality. But they cost 80% less and are so much more convenient than having to go to the dentist to get one. So they send you a kit straight to your door, you get these very easy instructions, send them right back, and they ship your custom fit night guard right to you. No waiting rooms, no overpriced bills. Just a better way to protect your teeth while you sleep. Go to shopremy.compillow and use code PILLow to get up to 50% off your night guard at checkout. That's 50% off at shop r e m I.compillow with code PILLow. Thank you, Remy, for sponsoring this episode. So we got him back here. Then the plan became we've got to start immunotherapy. And his. The surgeon was like, he needs to start it, like, immediately. Like, every day counts. This is really crucial. And then the next part of the journey became getting the immunotherapy scheduled, which in the end, he just had his first treatment yesterday. It took three and a half weeks, which makes me so angry. So angry. And, like, some of it is. I understand, like, you know, they had to run blood work, of course, but it was also, like, getting approval from his insurance. And it also took, like, my mom two solid weeks of calling the center that he's doing the therapy at, like, every single day because there's only one person who does the scheduling. And, oh, they're not there. And, oh, you have to leave a message, but they never return your call. And it was honestly crazy, like, really crazy. Making. We were all, like, on the truly on the verge of losing it by the time that they finally made the appointment.

B (19:41)

Yeah. And it also took him a really long time to recover just from the aborted surgery. And so it was like, you know, he had some appointments there, but it was like, it was like, we got to get everything approved by the insurance. We also need to make sure that he's recovered from, you know, being cut open eight times and being pumped full of a bunch of gas in preparation for surgery and all this stuff. And that was taking him a long time. We didn't know what, you know, we couldn't predict, oh, when is he going to be feeling up? For now, chemotherapy and immunotherapy, it was. It was like, so hard to thread that needle. But I mean, yeah, all in all, that took him a long time. So it ended up. It ended up being that he's getting it somewhat soon after he was able to. Maybe they could have started like a week ago. Yeah, they probably could have started.

A (20:31)

The recovery was gnarly, you know, even Though I guess I think all of us had in our heads, like, oh, he didn't have the surgery but it took him, yeah, like two solid weeks to recover. He was in so much pain. He was like exhausted, nauseous, couldn't eat, really weak. And he needed like round the clock care. And yeah. To like just go from him, you know, walking around being fine to all of a sudden like needing round the clock care was a really, really big shift. And my mom is a. My mom's a fucking beast. My mom is the person I know she is excellent in a crisis. She was born like she was made to be the person you want in your corner in a crisis. Like, she is tough as nails. But this has also been really challenging for her because it's making her realize like she can't do it all either. Like my dad needed help physically getting up and down, you know, out of bed, off the sofa and my mom's falling 4 11, you know, and like she couldn't do it. So that was really scary. And yeah, just helping like each of them are going through their own journey of him, like, yeah, you know, having, doing the recovery and my mom trying her best to support him. And also like, still life's going on, she has work that she's supposed to do. There's, you know, other stuff going on. It's just, you know. Yeah. To get thrust into this situation where it's like, holy shit. Like there's so much time and attention that it's really a full time job. And not only the physical care of him, but also keeping track of a million different appointments, medications, supplements, different doctors, changing diet, follow ups, changing his diet. We also ended up reaching out to a woman that we know who specializes in more like holistic treatments to cancer. Cause we just, When I heard that prognosis, I was like, fuck this. Like, yes, we want to go the western way and do the best that science has to offer, but we also need to find other treatments.

B (22:47)

Yeah, support the body the best way that you can.

A (22:51)

So we got a lot of ideas from her and we're still in the midst of doing a bunch of testing and figuring out a more integrative plan for him. But there's. Yeah, it's like a ton of different doctors that we're coordinating with, different. He needs to do sauna, he needs to do red light therapy, he needs to be eating fermented foods, he needs to go on walk, he needs to do meditations, all the different stuff. So it's truly a full time job. And you Know, we're so lucky in my family that we have, you know, my tough as nails mom, I have two siblings, we're all in town. You know, we, like my sister and I have partners. We're here too. My cousin is super supportive. Like he has an army of people around to help support, but like, still, it's so much work. I think that takes us up to basically where we are now. He had his first treatment yesterday, which unfortunately, unfortunately, like was pretty hard.

B (23:47)

Yeah.

A (23:47)

Unexpectedly challenging. We'd heard from a lot of people, like, it's not so bad. He'll be tired, but you know, it's not too bad.

B (23:56)

Yeah. This specific immunotherapy chemo combination, I'm not. We're not. Yeah, I know that in general, I think chemo is pretty rough, but this specific combination and I don't even know that much about how they do it, but you know, it's basically a mix. He does like one week of a mix of immunotherapy drug and some amount of chemo, then he does the next week, he does one infusion of just chemo, then he gets a week off. And it's just this three week cycle over and over for a long time.

A (24:25)

Yeah. So he was in the middle of getting the chemo part of the infusion when he just started feeling like extreme pain. And they ended up stopping the treatment.

B (24:38)

Yeah, I think like dropping blood pressure too.

A (24:40)

Yeah. Which apparently happens for like just a tiny percentage of people. So they had to stop the treatment and then have this like horrible decision of what do you do? Do you not finish the treatment so he doesn't have to be in pain but then he's not getting this life saving treatment or do you continue the treatment but he's in pain.

B (25:01)

Yeah. Because the pain thing, like that pain, the pain as a side effect to this treatment. It is, it's something that like it can be. It's not, it's not that it's pain because the treatment is actually hurting you. It's that the treatment can cause any other pain that you had from any other thing. Like, you know, he's, you know, still probably internally somewhat recovering from the surgery that he had a couple of weeks before or whatever. Like it can basically exacerbate any kind of like latent issues already inside of you. So it's like, yeah, can, you know, it's, you know, in most, in most situations it's like, oh my God, this thing that you're doing to me is really hurting me. So you got to stop because the thing is bad and it's not in this case, it's not that it's like, oh, yeah, no. Like the thing itself is actually really good. It's causing pain from something else that is temporary and will stop when this is over. But it's like, can we keep doing it?

A (26:00)

Yeah. So he did end up deciding to finish out the treatment. It was really tough, but yeah, he was able to finish it. So now, you know, and then it just brings up anxiety for next time of like, is it gonna be the same pain or is it gonna be okay? He's feeling better today, but it's just. Yeah, it's a lot. So, I mean, overall, like, I'm really proud of him for how he's managing this. Like, this is so scary, you know, it's so, so, so scary. But all things considered, like, he's been in pretty good spirits. He's really, like, committed to doing everything he can. He's really trying to take, like, as best of care of himself as he can. And he's got a lot of things going for him. You know, he has so much support. He has a lot to live for. You know, his first grandkid is on the way, just a few months. So, yeah, I'm proud of him for just like riding the waves. He's been super emotional, but he's just like letting himself feel that and just moving the energy. I mean, that's all we can do.

B (27:17)

He's gotten really into meditation, very into.

A (27:19)

Meditation, which I love.

B (27:20)

Yeah. Guided meditations, which he's just been.

A (27:23)

Little Joe Dispenza. Yeah, his buddy Joe. Yeah. So now ahead of him is it'll be about six months of this treatment and then they have to reassess and see, like, did it work? Is he one of that lucky, like 30 to 40%. And if it doesn't work, maybe, hopefully this other alternative treatments that we're doing at the same time will help.

B (27:48)

I mean, what we did find out later was I think that that the way that the doctor, that surgeon had originally described things was maybe not entirely correct. I think what we've since found out is that the 30 to 40% number is 30, 40% of people that do this immunotherapy, chemo combination achieve full remission, which is incredible. Like, that is. That is an absolute miracle that like 3 to 4 out of 10 people can be totally cancer free from this treatment and that many of the other people that are not in that 30 to 40% group see some kind of improvement, just not full remission. And so in this case, if there is an improvement to the extent even if there's an improvement to the extent where then he could have a surgical procedure where, like, the. Where the cancer is isolated to certain areas that could be surgically removed, then that's still a great outcome because then you can. Essentially, the hope is that you can achieve full remission surgically.

A (28:50)

Yeah.

B (28:52)

And also, you know, on top of that, what's challenging with so many of these, you know, numbers out there, you know, about, like, prognoses for various cancers and for various cancer drugs, is that, yeah, you're looking at, you know, thousands and thousands of people, and you don't have any information on what else they are doing to support themselves emotionally and physically. So, yeah, like, there's no way to know. You know, are they, like, are they following all the, you know, the best research when it comes to, like, what their diet is in terms of all these other things that you can do to support yourself or not? And so, you know, the. The hope is, is that, you know, we can move the needle in the direction, you know, that we can try to, you know, kind of put our thumb on the scale a bit by doing everything we can. That seems to also improve chances.

A (29:45)

Yeah, And I just want to. I just want to throw out there, like, for anybody who's, you know, if they're on a cancer journey or their loved one is, like, I do highly recommend looking into, like, alternative and holistic treatments, too. Like, I mean, I love western medicine. I love science. There's so many incredible things that we have been able to achieve, and, like, there's also so many other things that maybe we don't have the same amount of science or research behind it, but that are, like, equally effective and that really look at treating the whole body, not just, like, trying to kill cancer cells. Like, the, you know, the woman that, you know, who we've spoken to, her whole thing is she's like, you know, cancer doesn't happen randomly. Like, it happens for a reason. And we have to understand what is going. Going on in your unique system that allowed the cancer to develop in the first place and is letting the cancer continue to flourish. And there's this book that I was reading about a more holistic approach to cancer. And I looked at the part it was talking about, bladder cancer in particular, and it talked about specific things that led to bladder cancer. And one of them is there are specific chemicals that my dad was exposed to every single day in his line of work. And I don't know why it Just struck me, I was like, holy shit. Yeah. I think we've. In the Western perspective, we've come to think of cancer. It's just like kind of this random thing. Yeah.

B (31:20)

We deal with it when it happens. Yeah.

A (31:22)

But I'm like, no. Literally, this exact chemical that my dad was exposed to every Single day for 40 years, this chemical has been tied to this specific kind of cancer. Like.

B (31:35)

Yeah. It increases the chances of you getting it. And day after day after day, you're, you know, every day slowly increasing those chances.

A (31:44)

Okay. So there's so much more to this, so much more to the story that I could share. But let's. Let's kind of talk a little bit more about how we're navigating it, like, personally as a couple, all of that. So there are a couple of things. For me personally, what I've been doing. The number one thing is truly just making the space for everything, like health issues, you know, your parents. And this is also. This is the first of, you know, any of our parents who's gotten sick. So that's the other scary thing too, is I'm like, oh, my God, we're just starting this. Like, this is one of four. Yeah. But it brings up a lot of emotions, and for me, just the most. The most important thing, like, the biggest piece of advice that I could give to anyone else going through something similar is like, allow yourself to feel all of the things, because they all make sense. And when we fight against our feelings or try to get ourselves not to feel them, they just. Those feelings get so much stronger. And when I just let myself feel everything and I'm just. I'm moving through it. That's the best way I can describe it. Like, we're just. We're moving through it. We're on a roller coaster, and I'm just letting myself be on the ride.

B (33:10)

Well, I mean, we talk about this unrelated to this topic. We talk about, you know, feelings that. It gets so easy with feelings, Whether it's things that are coming up in our relationship about our sex life or whatever. We talk about how it's so easy to be like, oh, that's too much. I can't deal with it. I'm gonna try to. To not feel that thing. But the research actually shows that when you truly allow yourself to actually let in an emotion, a feeling, actually feel it, that we tend to actually process it fairly quickly.

A (33:42)

Or actually, what you're saying, actually like four times.

B (33:45)

No, we in. We indeed process it fairly quickly. Yeah. I mean, the number is it's kind of crazy. Was it like within 90 seconds? 90 seconds or something like that. Now in this case you have a lot of similar but slightly different emotions. Not like, oh, I just let myself feel really intensely for 90 seconds and then it's done. It's a whole lot, it's a whole cascade of things. But I think, you know, that that just gets back to that where it's like, yeah. Trying to be like, oh, I can't deal with this right now. I gotta be strong for my family or I gotta be strong for my dad or I'll deal with that later. I think that is what ends up at, you know, kind of like raising the temperature kind of, you know, I'm you know, thinking of like a kettle or like a pressure cooker. It's literally you're like closing the pressure cooker and the temperature's going up and it's starting to scream and you know, pressure builds, eventually it's going to release.

A (34:41)

Yeah.

B (34:41)

So it's better to just try to be releasing that pressure all the time. That's just going, you know, staying on the roller coaster.

A (34:49)

Yeah. I've also just been really doubling down on my self care. For me, like the number one thing has been exercise. I'm really, really grateful that I have an exercise routine. It's such a big part of my physical and mental well being and it's really tempting in times of crisis to abandon all of that stuff and like, oh, I feel like there's better ways that I could be spending my time or I just don't feel like doing it. But I am making myself stick to my routine and I'm so glad for that. Exercise truly keeps me sane. I need to be doing it. So just making sure I do it. I've been sleeping more. I've been sleeping like I'm usually I'm an 8 hours gal. I've been sleeping like 9 hours a night and I'm just like, okay. My body just needs more sleep. That's okay. Meditation and visualization and just like journaling too. Just writing, letting myself write down thoughts and feelings. When I'm going through all those things, it's the stuff that everybody knows. They're obvious but a lot of us don't actually do them. But I'm just really pushing myself to do those things and to remind myself I need to take care of myself in this situation too. It doesn't help to be a total self sacrificer or a martyr or anything like that. I gotta make sure my cup stays full so that I can Truly be there for my dad.

B (36:12)

Yeah. So I know a lot of people might think, oh my God, all that stuff just to take so much time is literally taking time away from time that I could be spending, like, with, with my loved one who might have limited time. Right. And I, I can see how tempting it is to be like, oh, no, I'm. I'm not going to do any of this stuff because I need to devote a hundred percent of my time to this person. But I mean, my question to you is like, what, what good, what, what good is it spending all your time with someone because your time's limited if you're going to be miserable?

A (36:44)

Yeah.

B (36:44)

That whole time you, like, the, the person that you're trying to show up for can feel that. You can feel that. And it's like, would you rather spend a bit less time but have that, but. But have you be as happy as possible? Right? Like, that's your dad. Your dad doesn't want a bunch of, you know, downers hanging out with him. Right. Like, he wants, like, whether his time is limited or not, he wants, you know, what's going to be most valuable to him is like, like fun and laughter. Enjoy. And if we don't show up for ourselves, like, you can't have that stuff. Yeah, sure, you could fake it, but everyone can tell when you're faking that.

A (37:20)

Yeah. I've also been really intentional about asking for help, like, with our community. I've on Instagram, I've been, you know, putting up question boxes regularly, like, hey, if you've been through this, give me your tip. When we were first, like, we need to look into more alternative treatments, I put a question box up around that and got a million responses. So that has been super helpful. Just realizing, like, it's a sign of strength to ask for help. And, you know, we've just been really lucky to have so many people, like, willing to offer resources and support too. I don't know about you guys, but lately it feels like my entire social feed is filled with different health trends. Like cottage cheese is an entire nutrition plan or you should be slamming olive oil shots first thing in the morning. I say we give the algorithm a rest. It can all be very confusing to keep up with. So I say let's turn to the real life professionals with ZocDoc. If you haven't heard of it before, ZocDoc is a free app and website where you can search and compare high quality in network doctors and click like instantly to book an appointment. I think we all know Finding a doctor can be really stressful. Fortunately, we have not been in the situation where we've needed any medical care recently. But as soon as we do, we are going to turn to Zocdoc next. They just make it so simple to find exactly who you need. Book an appointment instantly, none of the headaches or frustrations that usually come along with medical care. Stop putting off those doctor's appointments and go to Zocdoc.comPillow to find and instantly book a top rated doctor doctor today. That's Z O C-O C.comPillow Zocdoc.comPillrow okay, my absolute favorite thing when it comes to our ad sponsors is when we get a company that I have personally spent my own money on their products and then later they reach out to become podcast sponsors. And that is exactly what happened with Skims. A few years ago I was like, I have, I have to see what the fuss is about their lingerie. I bought a whole bunch of stuff with my own money and I was absolutely obsessed with it. So it makes it feel so easy to recommend it to other people. And in particular, what I want to call out today is their Fits Everybody collection. It is made from some of the softest, most breathable, just like melts into your own skin fabric. It seriously feels like you are wearing nothing at all. Trust me, you have not tried bras and underwear like this before. The fabric is so next level. It's so comfortable. Shop these Skims Fits everybody collection@skims.com after you place your order, be sure to let them know that we sent you. Select Podcast in the survey and be sure to select Pillow Talks in the dropdown menu that follows. We have both slowed down a lot with work and we're really lucky that we have an awesome team that like gets it and they can run stuff, you know, on their own with minimal involvement from us. We've worked really hard to build a business like that and create a team who's, you know, self sufficient and awesome. But yeah, like, my desire to work is definitely not super there. Like, I still love my work and you know, but yeah, it's just, it's hard to show up with a ton of energy when we've got so much going on. So I've just given myself that permission and just tried to be really honest with people. Like, you know, on Instagram too, of like, look, I'm not, I'm not gonna fake it. Like, I'm not gonna come on Instagram and be like, hey guys, here's our fun tip. For today, you know, it's just like I've.

B (41:21)

There's too much of that on social media anyway. We don't need to play.

A (41:24)

I couldn't do that anyway.

B (41:25)

We don't need to play into that.

A (41:26)

Yeah, just, just showing up, you know, vulnerably and authentically and being honest about where we're at and just allowing ourselves to like, you know, yeah, this is not going to be like a blockbuster year for us. There are some projects that we're just pushing off or letting go of and like, that's okay. That's okay. I will say though, at the same time, like, it is also hard because you can't, we can't like totally step away either. Like, we got really bad, really bad news in the middle of one of our like launches. You know, we had a course open that we. It was our course about how to talk to your kids about sex. We'd been working on this course for like a year. Planning this like big launch was supposed to feel like a party, all these like fun things going on around it. You know, whenever we have like a course like that, like, we want people to feel excited joining it. Like you're joining this movement. We're all doing this together. And so we got this horrible news, you know, in the middle, I think it was like the day, couple days ago, a couple days before the last day. And I was wrestling with myself like, you know, I don't want, I don't have the energy to show up on Instagram and like, hey, join the court. It's gonna be so great. But at the same time I'm like, I can't not say anything because if we don't show up on Instagram, people aren't going to buy it. And like we, yeah, people need, I.

B (42:56)

Mean, you guys are, need the course.

A (42:58)

You guys are last minute buyers too. We know that about you guys. Like more so until the last minute.

B (43:04)

I mean that's, that's common in this world. We have a lot of other friends that run businesses similar to ours. But I gotta say, when you look at the numbers, our business is the most extreme. We have the most extreme last minute buyers of anybody I've ever seen in this online course space.

A (43:26)

So yeah, I mean, that was challenging. And I was like, you know, because it's not just you and me. We have a team of people who rely on us for their livelihoods, their families rely on us. So it's like, we can't just disappear. We can't just decide to stop working entirely. Like people are relying on us. So I'm proud of how I ended up handling that. I did a story on Instagram where I was really raw and just said, here's the situation that we're in. It's a classic and situation. We have this amazing course. We're so excited about it. We want you to be excited about it. And we have this horrible life situation going on, and we can't show up with the same sort of energy that we really wanted to. So I. Yeah, I was just really brutally honest, and.

B (44:14)

Yeah, you were. Like, usually I would be doing a million stories all day, answering all your questions.

A (44:21)

Yeah.

B (44:21)

And just can't do that today. But, like, all the, you know, all the. All the questions, everything is written out on the. On. On the website, on the page. And so we're just gonna have to ask you to go there.

A (44:34)

Yeah.

B (44:35)

And trust us. It's great. Read it.

A (44:37)

Yeah.

B (44:37)

All the, you know, everything we'd say is all written down there.

A (44:40)

Yeah. So I'm. Yeah, I'm glad that I just showed up, like, in that authenticity, and it just. Yeah, it feels like all I can do. It's just. I don't want to fake anything. I don't want to lie. I just want to be real about what's going on.

B (44:57)

Always a good. That's always a good, good idea. Pretty much every. Pretty much every aspect of life.

A (45:09)

And then also just, like, going slow in general has been really helpful for me. I've had a lot of. Like yesterday when we found out that my dad was, like, in a lot of pain and struggling with the treatment, like, I just went outside on our patio and I just lied down on the stone and just laid there. I was like, I just have to do nothing. Like, I. I just need to lie there. I just need to breathe. That's all I'm capable of doing sometimes. And that's okay. Just being. And then I will also say, ugh, this is so hard. And I don't even know how to, like, fully describe it, but I've just been working on trying to be in acceptance of what's going on, and I've realized, like, this is gonna sound so stupid and obvious, but, like, I'm gonna lose my dad. You know, whether it's from this or something else, like, I'm gonna lose my dad. You're gonna lose your dad. I'm gonna lose my mom. Like, we're gonna lose everybody. That's just. Death is a part of life, and I've always known that, obviously, But I think there's A way that I'm just fully coming into, like, to terms with that. Like, I'm gonna lose him. I don't want to, obviously, but, like, I'm going to. And, you know, you hear people say it all the time. Like, we're not promised any time. You know, you. And, like, we could walk out this door and, you know, get hit by a car. There could be a huge earthquake that hits right this very second. Like, any of us could die in any moment. Like, we're not promised any time. And I think just having to recognize that, like, it's very easy to see a situation like this. Actually, a friend, a good friend of ours, like, helped me change my mindset about this too. He. He was going through losing his dad, and he said, like, at first he was really angry because he felt like. Like, my. My dad's being, like, stolen from me. Like, the time is being stolen. And he said he had to shift to recognize, like, no, like, I was never guaranteed any time with my dad. The time that I've already had as a gift. And, like, each additional day that I have with him is a gift. And I. That just, like, really struck me. And I've really been trying to look at life that way of, like, yeah, nothing is owed to us. Nothing is promised us. So it's not that. Yeah, it's not that it's being stolen. It's that just every day is a gift.

B (48:16)

Yeah, it's like you can focus on what could be getting taken away in the future. But of course, like you said, that's not. That's like. It's a. It's a false premise that something is being taken away because you don't actually know. There's no guarantee. You could get taken away tomorrow. He could get taken away tomorrow from something totally unrelated to cancer. And so the best that we can do is just today or even this very, like, this present moment on. I mean, God, I feel so great. I feel so grateful in times like these for my, you know, the journey that I've been on with. With sobriety and, you know, kind of like what I do to. To. To what I did to get sober and to stay sober is, you know, a big part of that is acceptance. Acceptance is like a huge spiritual concept for most. You talk to most people who are sober, have been sober long term, and they'll talk to you about acceptance and accepting things for how they are living life. Life on life's terms and. And then. And taking it one day at a time, because, yeah, when we feel like we're trying to control or plan out all these things way in the future. Like, we can just get lost in that, lost in the planning of it, or lost in the resentment of, like, what could be or what can't be or what's going to get taken away. And we totally lose sight of where we are right now. And, you know, the life we live is, you know, the moment, the present moment. It's not the future. It's not the past.

A (49:57)

Yeah. Okay, so let's talk about, like, how we've been managing it as a couple.

B (50:03)

How the heck are we doing?

A (50:06)

Yeah, I mean, you said it earlier, like, I'm really. I'm really proud of us for the ways that we are navigating this together. And, like, we've really. We've really felt like a team in this. And I think part of that is, you know, you and I put so much effort into, like, on a daily basis, trying to stay connected with you. And I won't even say so much effort. Like, I think we're really big on, like, the bare minimum. Like, what's the bare minimum that our relationship needs to, like, for us to feel connected and making sure we're doing that and not letting, like, not slipping into ruts, not letting, like, days or weeks pass by without even, like, the littlest bit of attention. So we really, like, we feel. Tend to our relationship. We water it every day. And I think that set us up to, you know, go into this situation, like, feeling like a team and feeling strong. And. Yeah, I just feel so. I feel so strongly that, like, we have to continue prioritizing our relationship even when times are tough. Like, like you were saying, it's very easy to think, like, more important things are going on right now. Like, fuck us. We need to just focus on, like.

B (51:18)

Like, yeah, the relationship will be there when I get back later.

A (51:21)

Yeah. But I strongly believe that, like, even in the tough times, like, yeah, you and I are not going on, like, you know, romantic date nights every week or anything like that, but if we can just keep doing, like, the minimum effort with each other, like, we're gonna continue staying strong, continue feeling like a team. And, like, that's really the whole point of being in a relationship, to have a teammate to go through life with.

B (51:46)

Yeah, that's why we. It's why we get into relationships. I can't think of me a much other reason. We want to have a companion, and we want to have support. Right. And so, yeah, like, I mean, that's a. That's an ongoing investment that you have to make, to be both giving that support that is kind of part of the, part of the promise you make of being in a relationship and to receive that support.

A (52:13)

Yeah. So, yeah, just continuing to like focus on our relationship has been really important. I think one of the best things that we're doing is just expressing a lot of gratitude for each other. Like really, you know, we did something that we pay attention to a lot otherwise, but really doubling down on, like, thank you, I see you, I appreciate you. Like, that really helped, that made an impact. You know, all that kind of stuff has been really, really impactful. And even just reminding ourselves like, we're a team, we're in this together. I've got you, we've got this. Just that language is really important. I also want to say, like, you have really like the way that I've seen you, like taking care of my dad and my mom. It has just been really, really beautiful to watch.

B (53:09)

Yeah. I love them so much.

A (53:11)

I know you do. And it just made me so appreciative of you. Like you've just been, you've been so tender with them and like there's so, there's so many things that you've done for them. Like, I can't even, yeah, I can't. I won't even like try to list all of the things like little and big, just so many ways that you're showing up and things that you've thought of that nobody else thought of. Like you've had a, you know, single handedly had a huge impact like on my dad's recovery. But just, yeah, the ways that you're treating them with so much tenderness and love. And I think especially with my dad, like, I think it's. My dad's not a macho alpha male type of guy. My dad's a big, sensitive sweetie. But I think men have a hard time like accepting help, you know, And I imagine that a lot of what my dad's going through like, feels very emasculating for him. And I just think that there's, there's a way that I see you showing up for him, that you're like allowing him to have his dignity and like still be a man, which I think not in it, you know, in a healthy way, a healthy masculinity. But yeah, I just think that there's, it's just such a gift that you're giving him that I couldn't give him, you know, because I'm not a man. But it's just been really like, yeah, really sweet and Beautiful to watch.

B (54:43)

Oh, thank you.

A (54:44)

I appreciate you for that. And it makes me love you.

B (54:47)

I love showing up.

A (54:50)

Yeah, you do. And you have been really showing up.

B (54:54)

I mean, it's important to have purpose in your life, and, you know, being of service to.

A (54:59)

To.

B (54:59)

To family and friends is one of the best, easiest ways to fulfill that. That need.

A (55:10)

I don't know why I bothered doing my makeup today. I haven't put on makeup in, like, a week. I looked really good today.

B (55:16)

Yeah. Come over. Come over to YouTube if you want to see Vanessa shedding her makeup.

A (55:21)

Do I have mascara on?

B (55:22)

No, you actually don't.

A (55:23)

Okay.

B (55:24)

You don't, though. I wouldn't be surprised if as soon as you look in the mirror, you see something that I don't see, because that seems to happen constantly here. But it's really just proof that I'm not, like, picking you. Picking your face and body apart every time I look at you.

A (55:43)

Okay. I will say just to keep it real, though, too. I mean, not that we haven't been real, but it is also, like, we have had some normal couple fights over the last week, too. And those are so weird. We had a fight yesterday about Xander finishing the last bite of something. And it's so funny. Cause it's like, on the one hand, you know, we're, like, in the middle of the fight, and it wasn't like a fight. It was like a, you know, a disagreement. A very mild disagreement. But on the one hand, I'm, like, in the middle of it, and I'm like, my dad has cancer. What are we. Like, what are we doing arguing about a muffin right now? But on the other hand, I'm like, like. But I wanted that last bite of the muffin. It's just such a funny. It's such a funny place to be in of, like, this is the tiniest nothing thing in the grand scheme of everything that's going on. But also, like, this is a thing. And, like, it's just funny, like, trying to find the space for space for, like, normal couple stuff like that. So I just had to throw that out there. Here's the sad truth. Most of us spend more time picking a Netflix show than we do being actually present in our relationship.

B (57:01)

And yet research actually shows that your relationship is a bigger predictor of your happiness more than your career or money. But there's never been a clear roadmap to deeper connection and lasting intimacy until now.

A (57:15)

That's why we built deeper our membership for couples who want to feel closer, more connected, and more passionate. It if your relationship is in a good place, you'll love the quick wins, like brand new date night ideas every month, fun conversation prompts, and even Vanessa AI, your on demand coach that you can ask anything anytime.

B (57:34)

And if you hit a tougher season, which is totally normal, then Deeper has you covered with our full library of courses and guides so that you can deep dive into exactly what you need most right now. Think communication, connection, desire, pleasure, or exploration. We've got you. It's like having a relationship wellness plan that actually fits into your real life.

A (57:56)

It's the membership that we always wished existed for ourselves. Something in between expensive therapy and trying to just figure it all out on your own. So whether you just want fresh ideas to keep things exciting or you need more structured tools to get back on track, Deeper meets you where you are. Because your relationship deserves at least as much care as your Netflix cue.

B (58:17)

Curious what your deeper journey might look like? Start with the Intimacy quiz, your key to love that lasts. This quick quiz helps you uncover what your relationship needs most right now. And you might be surprised because most couples get this one wrong, you'll walk away with a personalized roadmap, straight to the point, actionable and designed to help you reconnect with your partner ASAP. So head on over to vmtherapy.com five keys. That's the number five. And then the word keys again, it's vmtherapy.com five keys. And don't worry, we'll also link it in the show notes for you.

A (58:59)

Well, let's wrap things up and let's talk about sex.

B (59:03)

Yeah. How the fuck are we fucking?

A (59:10)

Okay, so definitely one of the weirdest thing how the Are we fucking? Definitely one of the weirdest things about this whole journey is that our sex life has been very regular. Right?

B (59:21)

Yeah. Say that.

A (59:22)

Weird. Regular.

B (59:23)

Yeah, regular, Regular, regular, regular.

A (59:25)

We've had a very regular sex life and I'm like, huh, how's this happening? But a couple of things. So first of all, I want to say it's totally normal for you to experience for anybody. I'm not talking to you. It's totally normal to experience changes to your libido in times of stress and grief. Very normal for your libido to, like, totally disintegrate and disappear. And it's also normal to, like, still have a libido or even feel like a higher libido than normal. For me personally, there have definitely been days where I'm like, like, my libido is lower for sure. There have definitely Been days where I'm like, I am not feeling it, but what I've been. What I've been doing is like, you and I believe really strongly in the importance of sex. You know, we talk so much. Yeah. About that. It's not just a physical act. It's not just getting off, but like, sex is really important to the health of a relationship. And sex creates intimacy, it creates closeness, it's vulnerability.

B (60:28)

It creates.

A (60:28)

It's, you know, it's all things good.

B (60:30)

We should caveat that. Yeah, good sex. Good for both people. Regular good sex is very important because I think that is the differentiating factor for a lot of people that don't feel comfortable with the idea of just doing it all the time. Is that probably you feel uncomfortable with that because it's not very good for one of you.

A (60:51)

Yeah. So good sex is important and good. And yeah, for me, it's like. So there have been times like yesterday we had sex yesterday, and we had talked about having sex earlier in the day, and I was super into it earlier in the day. I was like, yes, let's make this happen.

B (61:09)

You said something about why I did.

A (61:12)

I initiated earlier in the day.

B (61:14)

You made a very me type of joke.

A (61:16)

I did.

B (61:17)

Which I loved.

A (61:19)

And then we got the news about that my dad's first treatment had been really hard. And the way that there was so much more to the story that I didn't tell too. It was a tough. The way we found out about it was really tough. And I was just not feeling it whatsoever. But I just decided I was like, you know what? I want to do it anyway. It's so weird. I think I'm struggling a little bit with how to describe it. It's like, I don't want to do it. I didn't feel horny. I didn't feel turned on. The idea of having sex was not exciting to me.

B (61:55)

I think you got there, though.

A (61:57)

But I wanted to do it. I was like, you know what? No, I want to do it. And it's because sex is always good between us. We both make sure that, you know, both of us have a good time. And it's because our relationship is in a good place and, you know, there's safety between the two of us. There's a lot of care and intimacy between the two of us. So, like, those things have to be in place. But, yeah, I think sex is helping us feel connected. It's creating more intimacy between the two of us. It can feel sometimes a little escapist in a nice way. Let's Just focus on. Let's just feel pleasure right now. Just be in our bodies. And yeah, the release of an orgasm is great stress relief. Great for your mental health. Great for helping me sleep, all the things. But, yeah, I'm choosing to have sex for different reasons in this season of life, and I'm feeling really grateful for that.

B (62:54)

Yeah, I mean, it's. It's been an interesting experience for me too, because I am. I've learned about myself. I have. I am a. I want to feel a baseline level of connection before I feel open to sex, but I also have a bit more of a spontaneous sex drive. And so that can feel. That can feel tricky in times of high stress or things like this going on. Because when. It can feel like in the past, when I've been, you know, really stressed, I can tell that Vanessa is really stressed. It feels like maybe some of that. That baseline emotional connection required for sex is missing. And so then I will, you know, in the past, in moments like this, I've pretty much not had much of a sex drive on. And you know, the other reality with me right now, I've. I've been on. I've been on a hormone replacement journey over really since the start of this year. And as of very recently, I've gotten my levels, like, really, really dialed in, and I am not having that experience. I'm not having that experience this time around where it's. Yeah. Where like, it's the. Yeah. Dep. Like the hormones are starting to win out is. Is the best that I can describe it as. And so it's been. I mean, that's been a really interesting experience for me because in the past, I've not really had that experience of sort of feeling like, oh, I have a lot going on, and I'm still feeling this. This drive. You know, in the past, I've been more. Yeah, I guess just reactive to other stuff happening in life. And so, yeah, it's just been different for me to navigate, too, because I can. Yeah, I can see that, you know, you are not as naturally spontaneous or your. Your. Your drive isn't there as naturally as. As it sometimes can be. And totally understandably. And it's also like, I recognize, like, it's your dad, too. It's not my dad. I love your dad. And it's also just.

A (65:02)

Just.

B (65:03)

It's a different experience. And so, yeah, it's. It's. But, yeah, it's tricky. I think the. The thing, though, is that we keep talking about that. You know, even just talking about that, I'M like, hey, I'm having a, I'm having a different experience than I've ever had with my sex drive. And it's, it's fun. And it's also, can be a little scary because it's like, oh, I'm worried that maybe you don't really want it very much and how do we manage that? And then so I think it's just because we keep having those conversations. We're, we're creating the openness around it, which feels really, really good to me. I've been really proud. I mean, I've been really, I've been really happy with how we've managed to maintain a regular sex life. And I think that that has helped us maintain a regular connection. We, we maintain a regular connection so we can have a regular sex life and we want to have a regular sex life life so we can maintain a regular connection. Both of those things impact the other. And yeah, it's like once you get both going, you gotta be doing both to keep both happening.

A (66:09)

Some things that have been helping for me are I'm lowering expectations of sex itself. Like, I'm like, you know what? This is probably not gonna be the season where we have the most earth shattering sex. And that's okay. But ironically, I feel like we've actually been having like some crazy good sex.

B (66:26)

We discovered a coup. We discovered a couple new moves over the last couple of months before this happened. And those have been those. I don't know, maybe you're teasing that we may have to do an episode on like New Tricks.

A (66:41)

Vanessa and Xander's new moves. No, but like, it is funny how when you, when you take the pressure and expectation off, sometimes you surprise yourself. But I'm like, yeah, it's okay if this is not like the most earth shattering sex. I've also allowed myself to be clear with like, I've been very clear with you sometimes of like, hey, I'm willing to do this with you, but like, you're gonna have to take the lead or you know, do most of the work or like, hey, I'm open for a quickie, but I'm, I don't, don't have it in me to have like a long, drawn out sex session. And so that's, that's really helped too. Just like allowing myself, like, it's okay to take a little bit of a step back and to not be like as, as participatory as I normally am. And there have been times where I've asked you to like change the vibe, to like Hey, I just need something that's, like, really tender or really sweet or, like. Yeah, stuff like that. You know, just making specific requests of, like, the kind of energy that I'm open to or needing in particular moments.

B (67:42)

Yeah, that's totally fair. Makes a lot of sense.

A (67:44)

Yeah. And also just, like, I think part of what's making me feel more comfortable with. With having a lot of, like, regular sex in this season is. I don't know how to describe. This is gonna sound weird too, but, like, I think it's kind of similar to. My approach towards joy in general is, like, it's re. I think it's really hard when a loved one is going through something. Like, you can feel guilty about feeling joy. You're like, oh, like, it's so hard. It's so scary. Like, I feel bad feeling that way.

B (68:23)

I mean, you can even feel. That's why people feel, like, sympathy pain, because it's like, I can't. I can't even allow myself to feel anything but the same thing that this person is feeling.

A (68:32)

But what I've been realizing is, number one, my dad doesn't want me to be miserable. Like, if my dad heard me say, like, I'm actively preventing myself from experiencing happiness or joy, he would be so sad. And number two, like, me feeling joy and happiness, that benefits my dad. I'm such a firm believer in the power of energy in, like, the more happiness, positivity, and joy that is around my dad, like, the more he feels that and takes that on. And even, like, laughter, I truly think laughter is the best medicine. Like, laughter is healing him. And I think that's something my family has historically done really well, is we're really good at laughing and finding the humor, even in the toughest of times. And so for me, in a funny sort of way, like, sex fits into that too. It's like, not that I.

B (69:26)

You don't need to announce that to them. Hey, guys, I'm in a great mood. Cause I just had a ton of sex.

A (69:32)

Just got railed right now.

B (69:34)

Well, I mean, yeah, hopefully your dad's.

A (69:36)

Not listening to this episode, but I kind of group it in the same way of, like, it doesn't help my dad for me to not experience joy, pleasure, intimacy, connection. You know, he wouldn't want that for me. So, again, it sounds funny when you're talking about your sex life. And, like, mom, my dad would want me to have a great sex life, but it just fits into the same sort of vibe for me of, like, nobody benefits from me being miserable. Or denying myself good experiences or cutting myself off, you know? So I think that kind of. Yeah. Makes it feel. Gives me the permission, I guess. Okay.

B (70:20)

Wow. How we doing?

A (70:21)

We did it. There's. It's. It's like, I'm. I'm like, I want to stop. I'm done. I'm like, I've expended all the energy I had for this, and at the same time, I'm like, we, like, barely scratched the surface. There's so much more.

B (70:36)

I think we did a pretty. We did a pretty good job. And this is. We're, like, at or above normal podcast.

A (70:42)

Yeah.

B (70:43)

Minutes recorded right now.

A (70:44)

Yeah.

B (70:46)

So thanks for listening to our TED Talk, people.

A (70:48)

That's our life update. Yeah. I mean, that's. You know, we just have to be honest and authentic about what we're going through, and I think it's important to. Yeah. To share this story, and I hope that there's been something useful, you know, to gain out of this episode and whether it's, like, you know, our approach to our relationship, how we're dealing with this individually, health issue, you know, whatever it is, I hope there's been some sort of value here, whether now or maybe at some point in the future when you're going through, you know, something like this. But, yeah. Just wanted to open up our hearts and let you in, share what's really going on in our world.

B (71:36)

Yeah. Well, gosh, with that. That's all. That's all we got for this episode of Pillow Talks. Thank you. Thank you so much for listening and just hearing what's going on for us. Like Vanessa said, hopefully it's valuable. Let us know what you think. Let us know if you've been through something similar, if you have any pro tips or mindset shifts that got you through it.

A (71:59)

Oh, and you know what? I should share on Instagram. A lot of people have been asking to send my dad letters or care packages, and he has really been enjoying that. We actually got up to go check our PO Box for the next batch, but if you feel so inclined, obviously, no pressure whatsoever, but I figured I would just share this here since a lot of people have been asking for it on Instagram. But if you want to send him a little something in the mail, you can send it to us. And our. Our mailing address is 1470 East Valley Road, Suite H, number 5023 in Santa Barbara, California, 93108.

B (72:44)

Awesome. Yeah. And, yeah, if you have anything, Any. Anything you want to. Anything you want to say, any. Anything that you related to or any, you know, mindset shifts that you've been through because you've been through a journey like this. Leave us a comment on Spotify.

A (73:00)

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

B (73:02)

If you're listening on Spotify. Great. Leave a. Leave a comment. Or if you're listening on somewhere else, come over to Spotify and just search pillow talks and leave a little comment because we love hearing from you. Yeah.

A (73:13)

And we'll take any advice to tips, anything.

B (73:16)

We're open to anything, guys.

A (73:17)

Yeah.

B (73:18)

All right. Well, join us again next week. We release new episodes every Thursday, and next week's won't be quite this emotional.

A (73:25)

Hopefully.

B (73:26)

We'll see.

A (73:27)

Maybe.

B (73:27)

No promises. No promises. I'm Lynn for today, but. All right, we'll see. We'll see you next week.

A (73:33)

Bye. Bye.