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- [00:00]
A
These are the things that genuinely do move the needle. It's not about just magically taking that pill. It's not about, like, finding the magic supplement that works. Like, it's these things that really make an impact.
- [00:20]
Hello, and welcome to the Pillow Talks podcast. We're your hosts, Vanessa and Xander Marin. I'm a sex Therapist with over 20.
- [00:28]
B
Years of experience, and I'm just a regular dude. We share the ups and downs in our relationship while giving you step by step techniques for improving yours.
- [00:37]
A
Make sure you subscribe for your weekly double date full of totally doable sex tips, practical relationship advice, hilarious and honest stories of what really goes on behind closed bedroom doors, and so much more. It's the sex education you wish you'd had.
- [00:54]
So if you're listening this episode.
- [00:56]
B
If you're listening this.
- [00:59]
That was a slur. You drunk? If you're listening to this.
- [01:07]
Maybe we should.
- [01:08]
A
I was gonna say cut it, but.
- [01:09]
B
I think we should keep wow on.
- [01:14]
Vanessa has half a.
- [01:16]
A
Half a.
- [01:17]
B
Half a sip of champagne, like, one time a year. She chose today.
- [01:23]
A
No, I can't.
- [01:24]
B
To get back on the. Get back on the train.
- [01:27]
A
My brain was singing faster than my mouth could.
- [01:31]
Okay, let me start over. If you are listening to this episode, I'm guessing that it's because you want to be having more sex. So we are thrilled to tell you about this really cool new libido supplement that we just developed.
- [01:47]
B
Yeah, it's only $100 a month.
- [01:51]
A
That's cheap.
- [01:52]
B
Actually, it's only $200 a month. Price is going up, actually.
- [01:57]
A
Okay. No. We are not telling you about a libido supplement that is naturally place people's brains go when they think about having more sex. It's like, oh, more libido. Oh, supplements. Give me that. That magic pill that would just make me want more sex.
- [02:09]
B
But real talk, would you buy a libido supplement from us? What would we put in it?
- [02:14]
A
Oh, my God. Vitamin C. We. I mean, this is going to be our April Fool's joke one of these years. We've done. We do like a. I don't know why we get so into April Fools, but we did a vaginal wash a few years ago, and people were so mad at us, I thought we might. What he's talking about only water, no soap. And we were like, it's Vanessa's Eve vaginal wash. Yeah, we're gonna get. It'll be even worse when we come out with our April Fool's libido supplement. We are not fans of the libido supplements over here because, number one, they missed the point entirely, which is what we are gonna get into in this episode. But number two, there's very little science showing that specific ingredients genuinely make a big impact on libido. And number three, a lot of companies that make these products know that you are desperate and feeling like something's wrong with you and broken. And so they jack the prices. That's why I said $100 for a month's supply Seems pretty cheap to some of the crap that I've seen out there. They jack the prices up because they know that you're desperate and you'll pay whatever you can do. So anyways, that is an all. A very long, roundabout way of saying, yes, we are going to talk to you about how to have more sex in your relationship, but in ways that are actually effective, that are actually going to move the needle, actually going to make a difference. So let's jump into it with the very first one.
- [03:49]
B
Yeah, let's go talk about it.
- [03:53]
A
You want to have more sex, you got to talk about it. And I wanted to put this one first because I think this is one that we're going to maybe get the most resistance to, because, let's be honest, we are all socialized to believe that we shouldn't have to talk about sex.
- [04:08]
B
And most of us, it's awkward, it's.
- [04:10]
A
Embarrassing, it'll ruin the mood, it'll kill the vibes. Right. Like, a lot of us think of it actually as a bad sign. Oh, we have to talk about it. That must mean something's really wrong.
- [04:20]
B
I mean, I must. If we have to talk about it, I have to admit that it's a problem.
- [04:25]
A
And I mean, I'll be totally honest with you guys. We've shared this before. Like, we fell into that trap ourselves. We didn't want to talk openly about our sex life at the beginning of our relationship. And the very first conversations that we ever had about sex were arguments. Like, they were awkward, they were uncomfortable. We did all the things that we now tell people to do the exact opposite of. So it was really hard for us. So if you're listening to this and thinking, like, oh, my God, like, I want to turn this episode off already and go find the libido supplements instead. Like, stick with us for a second.
- [04:58]
B
Yeah, you're not listening to pillow talks to talk about stuff. You're listening to pillow talks so you can hear us talk about stuff. Right. We can't. Why can't we just talk you into having a higher libido that would be nice if we could. If we had really the magic words. Yeah, the dirty talk.
- [05:14]
A
No, look, we really get it. Like, I know that it feels really uncomfortable to think about having to talk about this openly. It doesn't feel sexy. It doesn't feel exciting. But I am here to tell you that this tip genuinely will make an impact in your sex life. If you and your partner can start talking about sex openly, your you will have more sex. Okay? So if you still need a little bit more convincing, let me ask you this. What else in your life would you expect to function perfectly with zero communication?
- [05:52]
B
Oh, I know. Raising kids, we never talk about parenting, right? And it's just like, boom, as soon as that kid shoots out of you, you just all of a sudden instinctually know exactly what to do. And I totally instinctually know what to do. No research required. No discussion required. I mean, it' hardwired into my DNA, right? How to be a good dad.
- [06:12]
A
Absolutely not.
- [06:14]
B
And then. And then it's hardwired into your DNA. And because we're married, our DNA is like, matched. They. They merge. And so, you know, we just communicate on a DNA level, not on a verbal level anymore. That's how deep it is.
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A
No, that's. That's.
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B
That sounds crazy. That sounds crazy, right?
- [06:29]
A
Imagine, like, trying to do your job with zero communication. Your boss is like, you just.
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B
I mean, I kind of wish my boss wouldn't talk to me.
- [06:36]
A
Who's your boss?
- [06:37]
B
I was putting myself in the shoes of someone in. In, you know, who isn't their own boss. And then I was like, shit. When I say this, it sounds like I'm referring to. She's not my boss, by the way. I am my boss. Actually, no, Chauncey and Maggie are my boss.
- [06:52]
A
That's true.
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B
And I would like them to talk to me more.
- [06:55]
A
No, like, really, Imagine showing up to your first day at work and your boss is just like, here's a laptop. No, it doesn't even say that. Just points you. Points you into your cubicle.
- [07:06]
B
There's a laptop there. It says on the screen, this is your computer. Get to work.
- [07:10]
A
No communication. Not even written communication. Like. Yeah. How could you function in your job with zero communication, zero instruction, zero feedback?
- [07:20]
B
Well, you could.
- [07:21]
A
You could start talking to your co workers.
- [07:23]
B
Well, yeah, I mean, here's the thing. You could. You could start working. You could start doing what you think you're supposed to do. You could start doing what you. You know what? Based on your interviews for that job, you thought they wanted you to do. Right. But like, you know, everyone knows the job description and then the actual day to day are sometimes very different. We don't understand why we're supposed to do things or who else is involved in all this stuff. Because I think that's the reality is most of us are operating in our sex life. Just like in that example where you go, oh, well, I know what this job is. I'm just gonna get to work. I know, I know what my co workers need without ever talking to them. Right? Like, that is actually how we operate. But if you think about like a workplace and if you just start doing what you think you're supposed to do, you're almost certainly going to be screwing things up for your boss, for your co workers, for your team, for your company. Right. Like, contacts is so important. Like the, the company culture and what their procedures are and how they think about things are so important. And if you don't know that, you're just setting yourself up to fail. And that's literally what we're doing in sex.
- [08:34]
A
I mean, we could keep going with the examples. Like, imagine trying to be a good friend with zero communication. Or even, let's do a more specific example, trying to cook one single meal with your partner with zero communication. You can't do it. So why is it that we understand that communication is necessary, essential in every other aspect of our lives, but when it comes to sex, we're like, no, nope, nope. Shouldn't have to say a single word about that. Like, that's just not the reality of how life works. It's definitely not the reality of how sex works. But the good news about this is that there are so many incredible benefits to talking about sex openly. So first of all, this is the way that we overcome the shame and embarrassment we have about talking about sex in the first place, and the shame and embarrassment we have about sex in general, about our bodies. Like, when we talk openly about it, that sends our brain the message, like, this is okay. This is a safe topic. It's okay for us to talk about this. It can also do wonders for your confidence. It can increase your desire when you're talking about it more openly. It's a way that you can flirt with your partner. It keeps that thread of connection going between the two of you all day long. So it doesn't feel like you're starting from absolutely zero, trying to then get really excited about having sex with each other. So obviously, talking about sex is a whole topic in and of itself. We actually wrote an entire freaking book about it. Sex Talks, the five conversations that will transform your love life. So that is a great, great starting point. You can find that@sextalksbook.com or anywhere you find books. But we wanted to give you a concrete, specific starting point. And we'll give away, like, the very first conversation in Sex Talks. The first of the five is what we call acknowledgement, which is literally just getting comfortable with sex as a topic of conversation. So the huge mistake that Xander and I made in our own sex life was that the first time that we talked about our sex life was me basically attacking Xander and saying, like, why do you never want to have sex with me anymore? Not physically attacking, to be clear. Like, it was a verbal attack. Interrogating, interrogating. And, like, obviously that didn't feel good for me to say. That came from a place of, like, we hadn't talked about it. My frustration and confusion were building up, and it all came spilling out. So it was not good communication on my end. And obviously, it didn't feel good for Xander to receive, like, who responds well to somebody coming at them with something like that. So.
- [11:10]
B
And a number of assumptions. For me, you were basically asking me to defend a position that I didn't have. You know, you're saying you don't want to have sex with me. Now tell me why you don't want to. And I'm like, wait a second.
- [11:22]
A
Yeah, exactly.
- [11:23]
B
But I do want to have sex with you, so how can I tell you why I don't want to?
- [11:29]
A
So that's why we tell couples, like, instead of waiting till that boiling over point, like, we just want to start with building a foundation. We know that you're going to feel embarrassed and uncomfortable and unsure. So we just want you to get comfortable with the topic before you start talking about the trickier stuff. So one of the things that we do in that conversation, you know, there's a whole chapter all about different ways of having that conversation, but it's like, building up positive experiences. And one of the best ways is to talk about sex in a more general way, not about your personal sex life. So this is actually why we recommend following us on Instagram, Anessa and Xander, because so much of our content is designed to open up conversations between partners. Like, it's so much easier to when you have a funny reel, you know, that you can just send to your partner. Or maybe we're answering a question about somebody else's sex life. Like, when you're not talking about your sex life, you're talking about, like, oh, look, at this reel. Listen to this advice that they gave. Like, it just feel, you know, it feels more objective. Cause you're not talking about, hey, I want to talk about what happened last night, right? So it makes it a lot easier. And of course, like, we try to make so much of our content just straight up funny and relatable. So it's not even like, it's not all about solving problems. It's not all about, you know, taking specific action. It's like, oh, this is funny. We can laugh about this. So you may want to get started by, like, just sending your partner a couple of the, like, most ridiculous ones. Where, like, our horrible sex position series is probably one of the best ones. It's like, you know, us acting out stupid positions we found online. They're always funny. We look ridiculous. We're making total fools out of ourselves. So, like, that's a great one to send your partner. Because there's no. Like, sometimes, you know, if you're sending. If you send a post to your partner, that's like, five tips for improving libido. Like, your partner might read between the lines and like, okay, I get what you're saying, buddy. But if you're sending them something like that, the sex positions one, like, there's no hidden meaning or no reading between the lines that can be done. It's just like, oh, my God, look at these two fools, what they're doing online, right? So then, you know, once you guys get a little bit more comfortable, then maybe you can share other ones. But I would really start with ones that like stuff that has nothing to do with your sex life. We also do a lot of polls, too. So the polls can be great conversation openers. We do, like, would you rather questions that are usually pretty silly and playful? Those can be great conversation openers. But again, the general idea is, like, let's not have you talk about your sex life specifically. Let's just get comfortable talking about sex as a general topic of conversation.
- [14:19]
It is that time of year where the weather reeks absolute havoc on our skin. Even here in sunny Southern California, my skin gets so dry over the winter, which is why I've been turning to one of my favorites, Oneskin. I've been using their OS one face product for years. I find it especially effective in the area right around my nose. I tend to get, like, really red, and it even starts to crack when it's really bad in the winter. But they just released a couple of new products that I'm really excited about. I've been trying the OS 1 body lotion, which has been incredible. And they even have a hair serum. At the core of all of their products is their patented OS1 peptide, the first ingredient proven to target senescent cells, the root cause of wrinkles, crepiness and the loss of elasticity. And these results have now been validated in five different clinical studies. They also just launched these limited edition holiday sets, which are a great way to try out the brand. Oh, I forgot. They also have new lip masks too, which I'm so excited to try out. For a limited time, you can try one skin for 15 off using code pillow at Oneskin Co Pillow. After you purchase, they'll ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them that we sent you.
- [15:37]
We were literally just in a team meeting yesterday talking about ways to uplevel our AI skills, and one of our team members shouted out, masterclasses AI Skills Series. She was like, this series is absolutely incredible. I watched it together with my husband. We both learned so much and we were so glad to hear that. Because Masterclass is a sponsor of Pillow Talks, we have watched some of the other Masterclasses and really loved them. In particular, I really like the Atomic Habits one with James Clear. If you've never heard of Masterclass before, they have Incredible classes, over 200 taught by the world's best business leaders, writers, chefs and more. You can seriously learn about everything if you somebody who just likes to learn, get new skills, keep improving. It's such a great tool and resource, and it makes an incredible holiday gift, too. Masterclass always has great offers during the holidays, sometimes up to as much as 50% off. Head over to masterclass.com pillow for the current offer. That's up to 50% off@masterclass.com pillow masterclass.com pillow.
- [16:52]
All right, tip number two for how to have more sex. Share the mental load. This is another one that I think people are gonna be like, what the heck are you talking about? But hear us out on this one. So if you haven't heard the phrase mental load before. Xander, pop quiz. What is it?
- [17:11]
B
It is the invisible labor that goes behind or underpins maintaining a household, in a family. And very often in male female relationships, most of that burden goes to the woman, the default parent.
- [17:30]
A
Yeah.
- [17:31]
B
And it's all the. Yeah. Research shows that, you know, obviously in more, you know, older school, more traditional marriages, they're kind of set up that way.
- [17:43]
And the reality is there is a lot of unquantifiable work that goes behind that. Both actual work and then mental labor. That's why it's called mental load. It's like the invisible labor, most of it inside your head of the running checklists and contingencies of. Okay, if we move this and that interrupts all these other things that I was planning on doing today, which of these needed to get done today, what can actually get moved to tomorrow? Okay, so wait, now I'm supposed to bring cookies to my son's soccer practice on Saturday? Normally I would go grocery shopping on Sunday, but now I have to go grocery shopping earlier. But when can I fit it in? Because I had to pick up the other kids and blah, blah, blah. And it's like, you know, it's for the person that is not in the day to day of the household. It just seems like, oh, well, it's easy, it's just, you know, doing the household. But it's like it's, it's as if you had a job and your boss was giving you to do's all day long, including when you were home and including when you were sleeping and constantly reprioritized. Hey, I know you already did this today, but actually I need you to do this now. And it's the middle of the night and blah, blah, blah. And yeah, it's just like this ongoing ticker tape in your mind.
- [18:55]
A
Yeah, I think ticker tape is a great way of describing it. It just feels like it's constantly, you're constantly scrolling through it. So yeah, I mean there's, you know, there's the actual chores and responsibilities that we all have, which are challenging and crappy enough. But then there's all the mental load and labor that goes behind each task. So it's like things like identifying things that need to be done, researching all the different options, deciding what the best option is going to be, executing the task, evaluating the work, and then making adjustments for next time.
- [19:27]
B
And I think adding another layer of complexity on that is also this idea that things need to be done to a certain standard because, like, because, you know, family and kids are involved and it's like, hey, like I, I want to make sure that the kids have all the food that they need. I want to make sure that we have the stuff that they like. I want to make sure that like when my kids go over to someone else's house that I don't look bad when they tell their parents something about whatever. You know, it's like there's all of this stuff and I think that it's so it can be, I hear from men all the Time, how easily written off this is. Oh, it's just not that big of deal. Or, oh, okay. It's okay. It's not the end of the world if, like, something gets pushed a day or if the kids don't have X, Y, or Z, or if they're 10.
- [20:15]
A
Minutes late, the towels aren't folded in the special way.
- [20:18]
B
And it's so tricky because sometimes they might have a point, but very many other times there's this other layer of almost like social judgment that goes on where it's like, I don't want to have to answer to other people, oh, why didn't you do this? Or, oh, your, your son, blah, blah, blah, did you not make his lunch? Or, you know, all that kind of stuff.
- [20:43]
A
Yeah, no, it's a really good point you're bringing up because there's, like, way more social judgment that gets put on women.
- [20:49]
B
Yes.
- [20:49]
A
If we don't hold things to a certain standard, we get judged very harshly. Whereas men, I think you get more, oh, he's really busy, you know, oh, you know, it gets written off easier. And also, look, as women, we've been socialized our entire lives to pay more attention to those things, to believe that, like, our worst worth is wrapped up in how well we do these things. Whereas men get socialized to believe that your, your worth lies in more quote, unquote, like, important, you know, thing, financial stuff, your job, your career, all that kind of stuff.
- [21:21]
B
Yeah. So to all the guys out there, we haven't even talked about splitting it up yet, but I just want to get in front of this one, to all the guys out there, because there are many of them that will say, well, the problem. The problem is she has too high standards. She just has to. She just has to lower the standards. That's all the more reason to start splitting this stuff up. If there are certain things where you truly believe, hey, it really doesn't need to be done to the standard, then you take it on. You take that, you take responsibility for that start to finish, and then you got to decide what the right standard is. You can deal with the consequences or the judgments of, you know, it not getting done to a certain standard or whatever, or even, even you can use yourself as a male shield against some of that judgment because you were talking about how men and women often will get, you know, not, like, fairly or unfairly, mostly unfairly, will get judged differently for, oh, you know, oh, she didn't do this because she's not a good mom. Versus, oh, God, he just didn't have time because he was so busy. Literally be the human male shield and be like, hey, you know what? I know that you're going to get judged if. Whatever. I'm trying to think of a good example of, like, something that I know that you're gonna get judged. If the kids are 10 minutes late to soccer practice, how would I take them to soccer practice? And if they're late, they probably won't judge me because they'll think I was late from work or something. Something like that. You know, it's like sometimes it's kind of like. It's kind of like if Vanessa says, hey, will you take my car into the shop? Because I know that the. The guys in there are gonna look at me differently, then they look at you, right? And it's just like, you know what? All right, I'll be the man. I'll be. You know, I will utilize my advantage as a man and go in there because I think we'll get treated better or, you know, get a better deal.
- [23:15]
A
Yeah, no, it's a good point. And I do want to say, though, this is what makes mental load so tricky. And we did do an episode where we talked about something like, is it mental load or is it perfectionism? There are. To be fair, there are certain ways that we women. And it could be, you know, men or people of any gender doing this too. But I do think there are ways that whoever's holding the primary, you know, a majority of the mental load. There are ways that we can get stuck in the perfectionism trap.
- [23:44]
B
Oh, absolutely.
- [23:44]
A
When we do set the bar too high, when it really doesn't need to, and it's not. It's not our fault. Like, I don't want to shame people for that because, again, it comes from. It really comes from a place of socialization. And I think it's important for us to pick that apart and think about, like, where did I get this idea that this thing has to be done in this certain way? What are the fears that are coming up for me around it if I don't like, what was I taught about this? So I do want to share that. That. That can be one of the tricky things that comes up.
- [24:14]
B
I mean, there's. And then also there's also just the dopamine hit of chugging stuff off the mental to do list. I know.
- [24:24]
When I get into to do mode with work stuff, like, if I have a list of things, like, you know, a bunch of slack messages of, like, little questions or whatever, I will hit like, it's Weird. It's hard for me to identify when it happens, but it's like if I've done enough things without taking a break or without kind of stopping to think, all of a sudden, I just get into that mode where, you know, Vanessa will come. I'll be like, oh, hey, like, when are you gonna be done for the day? Or like, should we do blah, blah? She'll ask a. She'll give me a competing request for my time that maybe has nothing to do with work, and I'll be like, no, I have to do blah, blah, blah. And then she. And then if she's like, oh, like, when does that actually have to be done? As soon as I. Then I'm like, oh, wait, when does that have to be done? I will totally ignore the fact that something isn't, you know, like. Like, I don't know, our. Our. Our employees will give me a due date for when they need my review or something. It'll be like three days from now. And I'll be like, oh, wait, but a second ago, it felt so important. I just wanted to get it done. And I was like, wait, I'm doing this now. I'm prioritizing this now because I want to get it done. I want the little dopamine hit of just knowing that I got it done rather than leaving it as, like, an open tab in my mind. And then as soon as I take a quick little break and breathe and go, oh, okay, wait, shoot, that isn't due for three more days. And I could just. Just put a little half an hour on my calendar two days from now that says review this thing, and then I will remember it because it's on my calendar. And then I can forget about it. Now I'm like, oh, wow, that was so easy. But often it's like we just don't. We don't, like, pull ourselves. Give ourselves, like, a second to breathe.
- [26:09]
A
Yeah, for sure. Okay, so how does this all relate to your sex life? Though you might be wondering, so what? We have heard time and time again almost exclusively from women. But I do want to be clear and say that every now and then.
- [26:23]
B
We hear a guy who's like, I do the bulk of the mental load. I'm the stay at home dad.
- [26:27]
A
So from the primary holder of the mental load, what we hear from people is, my brain feels so full of mental load that there's just not the space for anything else. I can't relax. I can't be present in the moment. I don't feel any space for desire. I'M just constantly, go, go, go, go.
- [26:46]
B
Go, go, go, go, go, go.
- [26:48]
A
And if you have a relationship where it feels like your partner, like, really doesn't understand the mental load, maybe they refuse to share it with you. They refuse to acknowledge the work that you're doing. It is very easy for your partner to stop feeling like a partner and start feeling like your child. And nothing kills sex drive faster than that. Right? So I understand, like, for a lot of people, if you're not the primary Mental Load holder, if you never even heard the phrase stories before, like, it might feel very confusing, like, how the heck is this related to my sex life? But it really, truly is having a much, much bigger impact than most people realize. So we do have two different podcast episodes all about Mental Load. I think the first one is more of, like an explainer. I think it was number four. It was one of the very first episodes that we ever did. And then we also have the, like, more nuance about Mental Load about, you know, perfectionism and all of that. So you can go back and check those out if you're more interested. We're not going to get into all the ins and outs of exactly how to share the mental load because there's a process behind all of it. But the basic idea that we wanna share here is that it has to be something that you talk openly about and create a specific plan.
- [28:07]
B
God damn it, you gotta talk about it.
- [28:08]
A
You gotta talk about it. There's another thing you gotta talk about. So, yeah, it's not that it has to be 50 50, but it is really important for each of you to understand what your partner is, is holding. Because most of us have no freaking clue. And that goes both ways. Understand what your partner is holding and to make a specific plan that says, okay, here's how we're gonna share this going forward. Because if you guys feel like you are partners in your relationship, that you are both participating in the relationship, it is going to be so much easier to want to be intimate with each other.
- [28:42]
B
So you already said it doesn't need to be split 50 50. I mean, if you are listening to this and you're really, really, really resistant to this, like, it doesn't even have to be close to 50 50. I think that where I would start is looking at, okay, when do. Do one or both of us typically initiate sex? Or when would sex typically happen? You know, in most. If. If you have a mental load issue, it's very likely that you have kids or if you don't have kids, that you're both very, very busy, and they're probably limited windows of time anyway where sex could potentially happen, right? So let's look at when could it happen, what is happening around then that is causing one or both of you to not be open to the idea of sex. Very likely you are in the middle of doing a bunch of tasks right there. They're competing demands for your time. And where. When there are competing demands for your time, very often sex is the thing that we push down the priority list, right? Cause it's like, oh, well, that's always going to be there. Well, not now. We'll come back to that, right? So I would look at, okay, what are those times? Here's a great example. In a lot of relationships, it's around bedtime for the kids, right? So, right. Got to put the kids to bed. And then all of a sudden there's the possibility that parents could be having sex, right? Once the kids are. Are as sleep. So I would identify those specific moments and be like, okay, let's get really honest, like, what. What are the list of responsibilities that are. That typically are still on your plate at this time? And rather than being like, okay, we gotta balance everything and 50, 50 this or that, I would just look at, okay, what can the other partner do at this specific time to lessen the load? Because the story that we hear from so many partners is one partner goes and puts the kids to bed. They still know, oh, the kitchen's still dirty. You gotta. Gotta like, clean up the kitchen, start the dishwasher, maybe do a little bit of laundry or whatever, right? Like, you have this thing in your head, okay, I see the light at the end of the tunnel. There's a couple more things to do, but gotta put the kids to bed. Then we'll get back to the other stuff. You put the kids to bed, come back downstairs or out into the living room or whatever. You see your partner feet up on the coffee table with a cold drink, watching tv, just relaxing. And you, your heart sinks. You're just like, what the dude? Like, like you're relaxing and I still have to do this, this, this and this. Like, the kid, like, there's a mess right here, like, and you're. It's just like, why couldn't you have just.
- [31:29]
A
Just.
- [31:30]
B
I was, I was putting the kids about for half an hour. Why couldn't have you just like, done a little bit of these things? And then, like. And then like, we could be coming back together, like, just the two of us without anything else on the plate. And I think so many of us are so into, like, no, like, I work. You do this. Like, we're so. Like, we're so in our silos with, like, I do this, you do that. Blah, blah, blah. Like, it's not my fault that you still have all these things to do. And it's like, well, all right, do you want to live like that, or do you want to have more sex? Like, it. Like, let's just get it. Like, get down into it. Like, if you want to have more sex and you need. And someone needs to, like, step up and do the dishes while the other person's putting the kids to bed, then just do that. Who cares about the balance? Who cares about who makes more money or whatever? Like, do you want to have a sex or not? And I think that's the challenging question that a lot of people who are resistant to this need to ask themselves, because the reality is, if you don't change, like, nothing else is going to change.
- [32:28]
A
Absolutely. And I also want to throw in here, if you're just thinking, like, oh, well, I asked my partner, just tell me what to do. How can I help? That doesn't count. How can I help? That.
- [32:42]
Sounds like a generous question, but you're still putting all the load on your partner because they have to think through, like, okay, what are all the things that need help? What's the best thing to give to my partner? Then I have to check and make sure they follow through and actually do it. And maybe how long is it going to actually take them to do it? And if they forget about it, do I just do it myself? Or if they don't do it in the way that it needed to be done, do I just take over and do it myself? So it's just, you know, it's. It's not actually a very useful question.
- [33:09]
B
Yeah, no, it's a lot better to just be like, hey, it looks like you're. You're always overloaded with this task. Let me just take that one from you. I want to take this from you. I would love for you to walk me through how you typically do it so that I understand and so that I don't need to keep asking you questions every single time. On the flip side, too, I think that for the person who carries more of the mental load.
- [33:36]
I think that there's also a tendency to be like, oh, well, I feel like I asked my partner once or twice to do something or to, like, step in and do whatever, and they maybe did it once, but then, like, they didn't keep doing it. And so like, I think they just like, they're not into it or they're not good at it or whatever. I think that there's a tendency for us to think that we're being really clear in making a request and then our partner like, does it once or twice and then forgets about it or it, you know, kind of like tails off or whatever and we just assume, oh, I guess they're not going to do it. And it's like, no, you gotta, this is the con. This is the conversation you gotta keep coming back to. You got. And if, and hey, if it wasn't, you might have, you might have been like, they might have thought you said, oh, could you help me out with this like one time tonight or something? And you're thinking that you're making it super clear that like, oh yeah, no, well, but I'm always putting the kids to bed, so you should always do that. Like it's just gotta be crystal clear and you gotta keep coming back to it and keep checking in about it. Especially if the other partner is, you know, doesn't have a history of taking on very many of these tasks. It's kind of just like initiating sex. I think a lot of us think that we're being a lot more clear than we're really being. And if you ask the other partner, hey, did you notice that like when I asked you like, which of these lingeries you like, that I was initiating sex? The partner like, no. So you gotta be even more clear than you think.
- [35:10]
A
Xander and I did a little traveling last month and we had such a smooth travel home and I think a big part of that was due to staying hydrated with electrolytes. I think most of us struggle to drink enough water, but most of us also don't know that water alone typically isn't enough. You also need electrolytes and that's why we really love cure. They are clean plant based electrolytes, no added sugar and they come in incredible flavors like watermelon berry pomegranate lemonade. They come in these really convenient little packs. You just toss them in your backpack in your bag and you always have them on the go. And they even have a brand new energy drink mix which is plant based with 100 milligrams of natural caffeine. Plus those electrolytes for focus and hydration with no jitters and no crash. For pillow talks listeners, head to cure hydration.com pillow your shortcut to cure on Amazon. Don't just drink more water. Upgrade it with cure.
- [36:14]
I love being a really good gift giver.
- [36:17]
B
You're great at it.
- [36:18]
A
Thank you. If you also want to be great at giving gifts, this year we have.
- [36:23]
B
An absolute slam dunk recommendation for you. Slam dunk dunk. Because it's so easy. I am not a good gift giver, but thanks to Cozy Earth, I now am. So tell them about it.
- [36:36]
A
Okay. They're bamboo sheets or their bamboo pajamas. I think anybody would love to receive them. Or also their bubble cuddle blanket.
- [36:45]
B
Oh, God, it's so good. So good.
- [36:48]
A
Cozy Earth is all about being soft, comfortable, luxurious. And I think all of those items are things that we would all enjoy, but sometimes we struggle to buy the nice versions of for ourselves. But don't get stressed out if you're hearing nice versions and thinking like, oh my God, how much is this going to cost? Because we have an insane deal from Cozy Earth. Give the gift of everyday luxury this holiday season. Head to cozyearth.com and use our code Pillow Talks for up to 40% off. Just be sure to place your order by December 12th for guaranteed Christmas delivery. If you're listening after the 12th, don't worry, our code still works year round for 20% off.
- [37:31]
Okay, I'm gonna stop us because we could talk about mental load all day. It's a very topic that we get ourselves really worked up on.
- [37:37]
B
Yeah, let's move on.
- [37:38]
A
Let's move on into tip number three for having more sex is get emotionally.
- [37:44]
B
Connected, which will be a lot easier if mental load is not in the way.
- [37:49]
A
So most of us have this tendency to compartmentalize sex. We think of it as just this thing that's supposed to happen at the end of the night. But the emotional connection that we feel or don't feel with our partner all throughout the day greatly affects your interest in being intimate for a lot of people. So I know it like sounds very obvious when I say it like that, but a lot of people just don't fully make that connection. And the sad reality is that a lot of couples in long term relationships feel very disconnected from each other. Like people are always telling us that, you know, we're two ships passing in the night. We feel like roommates rather than romantic partners. And when you're feeling that level of disconnection from your partner, it's very difficult to want to be intimate with them. Now I will say, like we talk about what we call the physical emotional conundrum, that there are some people who want to feel emotionally connected before having sex. And there are some people who want to have sex as a way to feel emotional connection. So we all want. Want physical intimacy. We all want emotional intimacy, but we tend to be divided in which type of intimacy we want to come first.
- [38:58]
B
Or at least where we default to.
- [39:00]
A
Yeah.
- [39:00]
B
So if you're two people that default to wanting physical intimacy to feel more emotionally connected, then maybe that's not a problem. You can. Maybe you're more likely to be able to compartmentalize a little bit because it's like, oh, great. Well, sex actually happens to be. Be the thing that brings us back together emotionally. But as luck would have it, most couples are not two of those types.
- [39:25]
A
You're probably not listening to this episode.
- [39:27]
B
You don't follow us. You don't really listen to our podcast if you're both of those types. We almost never hear from people that are like, oh, yeah, we. That's both. That's. That's us. And, you know, we're still struggling to have sex. Like, they might have other emotional connection problems. Like, huh, we. We, like, unless we are, you know, like, let's say that you're not physically together and you're not able to have sex. Like, we might really struggle to stay emotionally connected or like, we're struggling to feel like, you know, super bonded because the only emotional connection we have is sex. So other problems. I want to make it really clear because a lot of people might hear this and be like, God, it would be so convenient if we were just both of those types.
- [40:08]
A
Yeah.
- [40:09]
B
But, you know, that can create a host of its own problems.
- [40:12]
A
Yeah. I mean, I will say, even if you are both people who want to experience physical intimacy first, it is still important to work on the emotional intimacy in your relationship in other ways too. Like, physical intimacy isn't the only way to create emotional intimacy. And I'm not saying emotional or physical intimacy like one is more important than the other. I think they're both equally important. But I think the average couple is just really struggling with feeling disconnected from each other. So this whole episode is about how to have more sex, how to have more of that physical intimacy. But I also think it's just as important for all of us to focus on creating more emotional intimacy. So we wanted to give you one practical starting point for how to start rebuilding emotional intimacy. Obviously, there are a million different things that you could do, and I think that's one of the joys of relationships, is discovering what are the specific things that make us feel closer to each other. And in particular, what we recommend is. Is thinking about specific Things that you can do on a daily basis. So sure, going on a week long vacation with each other can be great, but I think it's the small daily things that we do that matter way more in the long run than the big grand gestures that we do every once in a while.
- [41:27]
B
Yeah, I mean, it makes sense too. Like, yeah, if you go on a week vacation, of course you'll feel way more emotionally connected during that vacation, maybe for a week after that vacation. But like, if, but like, how could going on vacation a year ago still be benefiting you? Like, yes, occasionally you're going to reminisce about it, but like, the reality is that once a week or so passes, like you've moved on from that. It's all about these daily things. And I think that it's, it's just so important to acknowledge once we are into a serious committed relationship, we have to make a habit of doing these things. I think we think that, we think that we're not needing to do that stuff early on in the relationship. But the reality is just getting to know somebody, learning all that, doing so many things for the first time together, and continuing to get to know someone that is creating all that emotional connection. You're not thinking of it as, as like work or habit because it's like, oh, well, I, I love you, I'm, I want to get to know you better. Right? Like, I want to do these things with you. And then once you have, you know, for the most part, it's not like you've ever done everything together or know everything about each other, but once you get to a certain point point, then it's like, okay, yeah, 99% of the time we're not asking each other a question that we've never asked each other before. So we gotta shift into more of a maintenance mode that requires proactivity.
- [42:53]
A
So one specific thing that you can do is start with gratitude. Gratitude has been found to be the number one predictor of marital satisfaction. And what we love about gratitude is it's easy, it's fast, it's, it's free, it feels good to both give and to receive. And it's just like a no brainer all around. So practice sharing gratitude for your partner. And it can be things that your partner does, things that you appreciate. You're letting them know, I see you, I saw that you did that, I appreciated it. And it can also be things about who they are as a person, letting them know, like, I see you on a deeper level. So I mean, this literally could take Five or ten seconds a day. But I promise you, if you start sharing gratitude for your partner more openly, you will feel closer to each other. Now, when it comes to emotional and physical intimacy, you know, we've already mentioned that they're really like two sides of the same coin. They're both equally important. And one other little note that I want to make is that when you're in a good place in your relationship, the directionality between emotional and physical intimacy, it can flow in both ways. Like, it can and should flow in both ways. So sex can absolutely create emotional intimacy. And very interestingly, I think that this is something that a lot of us women struggle to do, because if we look at gender breakdown, it tends to be that more women want to feel emotionally connected before sex, and the more men want to feel, like, have sex as a way to open up physical intentions, intimacy. And most of that has to do with socialization. But I do think a lot of us women have the tendency to write off sex as being a physical act. Oh, my partner's just horny. He just wants to get off. They just want to get off. Yeah, just scratch an itch kind of thing. And we don't recognize the emotional aspect of it. So I think that's something for us. You know, if you're listening to this thinking, like, ooh, yeah, maybe I think I might do that. It's something to practice. So can you practice bringing more of your emotional self, like, into the moment during sex? And can you linger in that connection after sex? Like, so many of us are so quick to just immediately jump up. We're very guilty of this. But, you know, a lot of men will tell us, like, after sex, that is the time that I feel the most open, the most vulnerable, the most connected. And yet, like, we're jumping up and just leaving the room rather than, like, lingering in that connection that we just created.
- [45:27]
B
And can you start to train your mind to think about when your partner is initiating sex with you before that knee jerk, you know, answer comes, think. Think about the opportunity that the sex could afford for emotional connection afterwards, especially if you are doing what Vanessa is recommending of lingering and talking and cuddling. Think about how good it feels afterwards and remind yourself, oh, this is what they are asking for. Right? Because it's all. It's all the same thing. I think we do this and then we do that. Right? So, yeah, it's like, think about that. And that can be a great way to start training yourself to be like, oh, okay, yeah. I mean, maybe I would be Open to the physical first, because I know that the emotional is coming right afterwards. And yeah, so it's like both. Both of, you know, we've all been socialized one way or the other, and it's just like, you know, we each have to push ourselves out of our comfort zone a bit to try to get more in the middle, where we can be like, oh, I'm feeling disconnected. Okay, yeah, sex. Sex could be a great way for us to reconnect. Oh, we haven't had sex in a while. Oh, it might be nice to reconnect emotionally because that might, you know, we both might feel more open to it. Like, we both. We all want to kind of move ourselves to the middle if we can.
- [46:55]
A
All right, tip number four for having more sex is understand how desire actually works.
- [47:03]
B
Not taking a pill.
- [47:04]
A
Not taking a pill. This is about the two different sex drive types. And I'll just say we do a deeper dive into these two types in a recent episode. It's within the last, like, two months or so, so definitely go check that episode out. Especially if you feel like you are responsive type. But essentially, there are two types of sex drive, and they boil down to where we feel desire first, mentally, like the idea of sex sounds good, or physically, our body is starting to feel good, get excited and ready to have sex. So the first type is spontaneous. That's where you feel mental desire first, then physical arousal follows. And most of us think that this is how sex drive is supposed to work. Because if you think about every sex scene you've ever seen on TV or in the movies, it's always spontaneous desire. And research shows that men tend to have spontaneous desire more often. So most people don't even know that responsive desire exists. But it's the exact opposite. You feel that physical arousal first, and then the mental desire follows later. So a classic way of knowing that you have responsive desire is if you've ever been in the middle of seeing sex or even at the end of sex and caught yourself thinking, this is fun. Why do I never seem to want this? So research shows that women tend to have responsive desire more often. But because we don't know it exists, most of us are judging ourselves as being low desire or no desire. But that is not the case. You have desire. Your body just needs something to respond to. Your body needs to start feeling good before the idea of sex sounds good. So this is a big problem, because the way that we initiate sex is purely for spontaneous desire. Like, it's. It's appealing to somebody's mental Desire, like, do you want to have sex right now? If you ask somebody with responsive desire, do you want to have sex right now? 99 times out of 100, the answer is going to be no, because you haven't had any sort of physical stimulation first. So if you have responsive desire, we have to get started with the physical stimulation. And then your brain starts catching up and thinking like, oh, this feels good. I'm feeling connected. I want to continue doing more with my partner.
- [49:18]
B
I mean, more than that. That's where your brain starts catching up. You're like, oh, shit, I want this. Like, let's go. Yeah. Because I think that most people you talk to who say that they are low desire. When you start talking through positive sexual experiences and almost like reminiscing about it, you'll get them to the point where they're like, oh, wait, no, wait, I felt really strongly that I wanted it right there, like, that. You do have strong desire. Think so. It's. Yeah, it's like. It's not like, what's your average desire level throughout the day? The important thing is, okay, think about, you know, a recent time that you had really great sex and think about what. What was like your maximum desire level in that moment. That is an indicator of how capable of desire you. You are of feeling. Right. And so it's a matter of just understanding how I work. Oh, oh, I. All I need to do is X, Y and Z to get to that level versus. Oh, wait, that level is not just like spontaneously happening. I'm broken. Because you're not. You're not broken. You just gotta do a couple things first.
- [50:22]
A
Okay. So, yeah, definitely go back, check out that episode. Cause we do a much deeper dive. But you need to understand how your sex drive type works, how to work with it instead of against it. You will have more sex. Sex if you do that.
- [50:36]
B
Yeah. The short answer is that. Just don't ask the question, do you want to have sex right now? That's almost always going to give you a no. If the person you're asking has responsive desire, ask instead. Are you open to having sex with me? Are you open to getting turned on? Are you open to spending a couple minutes making out and see if you got turned on? Open to me giving you a massage and then maybe a little more if you're feeling it, or are you open to having sex later today? What else might I need to do to create a little more space mentally, emotionally, whatever. So, yeah, instead of initiating right now, think about initiating at some point in the future and if that sounds scary to you because you are more of a spontaneous type, just remind yourself, hey, I think that, you know, if I'm being really honest with myself, when I get it, starting. Start to get a little bit of stimulation, or when my partner starts saying that they're open to having sex with. With me, I'm probably gonna get turned on, right? Like, I think most. Most spontaneous people kind of do this little freak out of, like, oh, my God. But if I'm not, like, in the mood right now, I'm not in the mood, and it's like, no, I think that if your partner starts touching you, you're probably gonna get there.
- [51:53]
A
Okay, and let's wrap it up with our fifth tip. You can have more sex by making sure the sex that you're having is worse than worth having and worth craving. So this is one of our favorite topics, the connection between pleasure and desire. So most people, if they feel like they have low desire or no desire, they really beat themselves up. They feel like something is really wrong with them, and they don't understand how important of a role pleasure plays in this. So I'll give you my favorite comparison. Do you ever find yourself craving a bowl of overly steamed mushy broccoli? Of course not. Right. And do you beat yourself up for not wanting overly steamed mushy broccoli? No, but let's be brutally honest here. A lot of us are having sex that's the equivalent of some mushy broccoli and beating ourselves up for not wanting more of it.
- [52:57]
B
You just said that. And it brought me back to what I just said a couple of minutes ago of like, think back to a great sexual, positive sexual experience you had and thinking about what your desire level as well. If you did that little thought exercise a couple minutes ago, and we're like, well, it wasn't very high, I might guess that possibly that last sexual experience might have been mochi broccoli might not have been very good. So if that. If you are relating with that, then think about, okay, well, how good was it actually? And if the answer is, oh, well, it's kind of the way it always is, which is, like, pretty good for him and blah for me. That's your answer right there. Let's focus on getting the. Let's focus on getting the experience better then. See, okay, when I really enjoy myself, how much am I really wanting in that moment? As a better indicator of what you're capable of?
- [53:49]
A
So there are two major culprits that come into play here. First is that in male female relationships, the ways that we're socialized to have sex heavily prioritize male pleasure. I mean, we tend to put the emphasis on intercourse. Intercourse is not actually the most pleasurable activity for women. We have polled our audience about it and only 9% of women said that intercourse was the most pleasurable activity for them.
- [54:15]
B
That doesn't mean they hate it.
- [54:16]
A
Yeah, to all the people out there.
- [54:18]
B
That are like, oh my God, I don't know, not my partner, that does not mean that they hate, hate it.
- [54:23]
A
But it's just that it's not the most physically pleasurable thing. Intercourse just does not give a lot of stimulation to the most sensitive part of our body, which is the clitoris. Hardwired to feel pleasure has way more nerve endings in it than the entire penis does.
- [54:38]
B
And we're not saying don't have intercourse because the great news is clitoris can be stimulated while you are having intercourse as well. For all the people out there, they're like, oh, these idiots are telling me.
- [54:48]
A
To stop having sex. No, we're not at all. And then the other major culprit that comes into play is that we tend to get into ruts in long term relationships. We find the things that work and we just stick with those things and we keep doing them. And at first that might be great. You're like, oh, yeah, we're doing the stuff that works. But over time, it just feels like the window of opportunities just narrows down until you're doing the exact same thing, just. Just a few things over and over and over again every time. So the bottom line is that if the sex that you're having is not pleasurable, why would you be craving it all the time and why would you be having a ton of it? So if you're feeling like libido is the issue for you, I would encourage you to think about, like, the quality of the sex that you are having. Is it sex that's worth having? That really is going to be the key to opening that up for you. So ultimately, the pleasure needs to matter more than the desire. And the good news is we have a lot of tools that can help you out with this. This is one of our favorite things to work with. So we will link our ultimate foreplay guides and our ultimate sex guides in the show notes. We love going over technique, sharing specific things that couples can do to have more fun with each other to increase the pleasure. All right, so those are your top five tips for having more sex. I'm sure at least one of them was not what you were expecting, but like we said at the beginning of the episode, these are the things that genuinely do move the needle. It's not about just magically taking that pill. It's not about, like, finding the magic supplement that works like. Like. It's these things that really make an impact. So just pick one. Pick one to get started with. Do one of the tips that we've suggested and see.
- [56:47]
B
Yeah. Report back. Let us know how it goes.
- [56:49]
A
Report back. All right, well, that is all for today's episode of Pillow Talks. Thank you so much for listening. Join us again next week. We release new episodes every Thursday.