← Pillow Talks
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A
Our secret sauce is non goal oriented sexual communication.
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N G O S C. We need
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to come up with a sexier name for that.
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No ghost.
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A
No ghost. Hello and welcome to the Pillow Talks podcast. We're your hosts, Vanessa and Xander Marin. I'm a sex Therapist with over 20
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years of experience and I'm just a regular dude. We share the ups and downs in our relationship while giving you step by step techniques for improving yours.
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Make sure you subscribe for your weekly double date full of totally doable sex tips, practical relationship advice, hilarious and honest stories of what really goes on behind closed bedroom doors, and so much more. It's the sex education you wish you'd had. Alright guys, I want to be totally honest with you. We had plans to record a brand new episode for you today, but life has been wild lately.
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B
In a good way mostly, but also as I said that I was in a very mixed way.
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A
We've had some of the highest highs and some of the lowest lows all happening on the same day. And yeah, we just completely ran out of time to record a full episode today. Actually it's not even today we're recording this late. Cause we didn't even have the bandwidth in our week to record this like five minute intro. We had to delay it. So definitely make sure you're following us on Instagram because we're sharing lots of stories over there with Vanessa and Xander, if you're not there already. But some of the best news was that our niece was born.
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B
Our first, our first and only, our
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A
first, I mean niece or nephew Poppy came into the world. And we also got some really good news about my dad's cancer journey. And then unfortunately I've had just some really tough health stuff going on with several other family members. You know, a lot of this we'll probably share at some point, but we just don't quite have enough information right now. So yeah, all that to say we ran out of time and energy, we ran out of juice and it's important to us to like the energy that we show up. Recording this podcast is important to us and it just. There was no time and there was no energy. So what we decided to do instead, we wanted there to be something. So we went back into our archives because this is the funny thing about having done the podcast for years, like 250 episodes is we have, there's a lot of episodes. We have so many episodes that a lot of people have never listened to. I mean, it's very rare to have somebody who's been listening since Day one.
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B
Hey, if that's you, though, whether you've listened since day one or you have binged and you have listened to all 250. 200. This is 246. Like, wow, thank God. Hats off. Hats off to you. I know that. I know that these people do exist because we get our Spotify wrapped and, you know, I know the numbers there. There are some very serious power listeners, but, you know, hell yeah, power listener.
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A
Wow.
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B
Hats off to you. 246 is a lot of episodes.
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A
So we decided to look back through the archives and find one of our favorite episodes that has, you know, hasn't. It was released years ago that probably most people have not ever had the chance to listen to. And this one, this is a classic for us. How to talk about sex. This is, I think this is really like the heart of so much of what we do.
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B
Wait, we're supposed to be talking about sex? Babe, Did I miss something?
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A
We're supposed to be talking.
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B
Did I miss something? What have we been doing? We've been talking about other people having sex, but we haven't talked about us having sex. No. Just kidding. Not true.
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A
Yeah. This episode is specifically for what to do if your partner is resistant. So you're like, hey, I've been listening with Andrew, Vanessa, I'm on board. I follow their reels. I want to talk about it. And your partner's like, I don't think we should have to talk about it. That or that's not natural.
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B
That's weird.
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A
Yeah, it should just like sex should just happen. You're making it feel too complicated or you're making it feel too planned. So if you have a partner who's been really reluctant to talk about it openly, then this is the episode for you. We're gonna give you tons of advice, tips, scripts, word for word, exactly what to say. And we are also going to share with you some news later on in the episode. We created something brand new that we are calling the Spring Spark. It's our monthly relationship ritual that is going to help you and your partner stay intentional about your relationship, keep the two of you having fun with each other, keeping the spark alive, all for the most affordable, simple pricing that we have ever offered. So we'll tell you a little bit more about that later. Okay, let's jump in to our re airing of one of our favorite episodes. Today's episode is about one of our all time favorite topics, Sexual communication. How to talk about sex as we
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talk about it on our podcast, which is about talking to you about Talking about sex. About the topic of this episode, which is talking.
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If you've been following us for any length of time, it's no surprise to you that we talk a lot about communication. But you may not know our story around this, which is that if we go Back to like 2008, 2009, we actually wound up in couples therapy because we had never talked openly about our sex life.
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B
And we were real big and scary.
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We were really struggling, you know. And now fast forward 17 or 15 years later. How long have we been together? 16 years.
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B
Yeah, 16 years.
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We're coming up on 16 years on 17 this year. We are so fast forward all these years later and we are now co authors of a New York Times best selling book called Sex the five Conversations that Will Transform youm Love Life. So look, we get how hard it is to talk about sex. We both really resisted it ourselves for a while. And even me knowing that I wanted to be a sex therapist for basically my entire life, like, I still struggled to talk about it in a way that felt effective, that felt useful, and that really even like felt intimate or connecting. So because. I am so excited to be partnering with Quince again because they are one of my personal favorite brands that I have bought so many things from with our own money. If you've never heard of Quince before, they make everyday essentials with quality that lasts. They make incredible clothing, but they've really branched out with a lot of other products too. Now they have home goods, they even have flavors, furniture, skincare, items that everything is really built to hold up to daily wear. But they only partner with factories that meet rigorous standards for craftsmanship and ethical production, which we love. I actually just bought a maternity set from Quince for my sister. She just gave birth and I wanted to find her some clothes that were like cute and cozy, but she still felt kind of pulled together and I immediately was just like, Quince. I'm sure Quince will have something. And sure enough, there are like a couple of really cute sets. The prices are incredible. I mean, this is one of the best things about Quint. So I was able to get her a couple of really cute things. So I seriously cannot highly recommend checking out Quince enough. Refresh your wardrobe with quince. Go to quince.compillow for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.compillow for free Shipping and 365 day returns. Quints.compillow as we understand what it's like to struggle to do this. We wanted to make a specific type of episode here, which is how to get your partner to start talking about sex. So we're gonna go out on a limb here. Like, if you're listening to the podcast, you're probably on board with this whole idea of sexual communication. Like, you've listened to the episodes, you've heard us talk about it, you're like, okay, I get it.
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B
Or you're at least a little curious because you're still here.
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A
Yeah, you're still here. Maybe you're not fully on board. We'll talk about that in a second. But if you're like most people, you have a partner who's pretty resistant to it, and it can range. Maybe it's just a, you know, they just tell you, I don't know. Whenever you ask them a question all the way up to, like, they'll leave the room if you try to talk about it. Maybe they'll even mock you. Like, why are you trying to talk about that? So we're going to cover all sorts of scenarios and give you tons of our best tricks and tips and sneaky little techniques for making the most even resistant partner feel more comfortable talking openly about sex.
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B
And if you are the partner that is listening right now and you're like, those don't describe me at all. I talk about sex willingly all the time. Hell yeah. I'm so stoked that both of you guys are listening to this podcast because that's really. That's the dream right there. That's the ideal scenario.
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A
Okay, let's get into the episode. So let's just talk for a minute about why should we have to talk about sex? Like, this is one of the most common questions we get asked when we're being interviewed by, like, magazines and websites are like, well, why should we have to talk about sex with our partner?
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B
And I think this is where we got hung up in those first couple of years of our relationship. Or I can speak for myself, this is where I got hung up. Because every time we started wading into the territory of, like, oh, God, it's feeling like we're going to have to talk about this. My inclination would be, okay, what do I need to do? What do I need to show? What do I need to change in order for us to not actually have to talk about this. And I spent a long time and did a lot of mental gymnastics to try to, like, okay, well, oh, if I. If we can just have sex X number of times a week or if I can, like, get home from work. And then we do this and that and like, these things don't happen, and these things do happen and that happens, like for a couple weeks in a row, then maybe I'll be off the hook. And I think that so many of us go through that where it's just like, we spend so much time and so much energy and we create so much anxiety and stress for ourselves, which is so unnecessary just because we want to avoid this one conversation that might be a little awkward or might be a little weird for like 30 seconds and then it doesn't feel weird anymore. But yeah, it's just mind boggling to me how much like, yeah, I almost want to say, like, how many years I took off my life, like, just going back and forth over this when it was like there was such an easier way to deal with it.
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A
Well, also, I think it's important to point out that we don't see any examples of this. We don't have any role models. Like, when have you ever seen a sex SC on TV or in the movies that shows the characters actually talking about the sex that they're having or not having? Like, we just don't ever see it. And so a lot of us internalize that and believe you shouldn't have to talk about it. Like, talking about it is a bad thing. It means something is wrong or negative. And we're going to talk a little bit more about that dynamic too.
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B
Well, and I think that we get that idea that if we have to talk about it, it's really bad because like you said, we don't see anybody in movies and TV talking about it in a productive way. We do very occasionally see people talking about it in an unproductive way. Like things boiling, fight, why don't you ever want me? Like, we never do it anymore, those type of things. And it's like, wow, okay, if you have to talk about it, it must be really bad because it's one of those situations. And I know I was guilty of that. You know, I think there were times where you, you know, you were trying to bring it up a little bit more than I was. I was very much trying to avoid these conversations. You were trying to bring it up. I think, you know, you didn't really have the tools to bring it up in the most productive way.
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A
Yeah.
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B
And I just immediately went to this place of like, oh, my God, this is like, this must be a, like a relationship ending thing. If we have to get to that point where we talk about It. And I mean, ironically, the reason I kind of spurred myself into action in getting finally being okay to go to therapy about it was because I was worried like, oh, well, this feels like our relationship is gonna end if we can't figure this out. And it was funny talking to you later. You were like, I never felt like we were close to our relationship ending, but that's what it felt like in my head because it was like all the examples I'd seen of anybody ever having these conversations that turned into big screaming match arguments about sex. It was like, well, that's the end of things. And I just like, got myself into a tizzy about that basically, and was like, oh, my God, am I. Do I want to lose this relationship? Oh, okay. I guess I better go to therapy. Like, what? You know, I don't want to lose this relationship, so I'll do whatever it takes. Ironically, going to therapy, you are talking. You do. It wasn't. It wasn't like there was an alternative to talking about it. It was just talking about it with someone else in the room. And, yeah, it turned out that, yeah, the stakes were not as high as I thought they were.
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A
Yeah.
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B
So, yeah, I imagine other people are going through that too, so figured I'd share.
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A
Well, let's return to the original question, which is like, why should we talk about sex with each other? And whenever we get asked this question in interviews, we always turn it around and we're like, well, why not? Like, give us a good reason why we shouldn't talk about sex openly. And I think, like, think about any other aspect of your relationship. Could you imagine not talking about it, but expecting it to just flourish and go, well, like, parenting is a really good example.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Could you imagine having kids and never talking to your partner about your parenting style or how to handle certain, like, tricky situations with your kids? And could you imagine being a good parent, being good co parents together without ever talking about it? Absolutely not. Like, I can't even imagine what that would look like. It's ludicrous.
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B
Well, I mean, parenting is, like, natural and instinctual, and it should just come naturally. Right. Kind of like sex. We shouldn't ever need to talk about it. It's just something that we're, like, genetically medically hardwired to be able to do.
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A
Also, not talking about sex can lead to some really serious misunderstandings. You know, if you're not talking about it openly, there's a very high likelihood that you are actively misunderstanding each other. So some of the classic examples that we hear are people Saying like, my partner thinks that I'm orgasming, but I haven't had an orgasm in 10 years and they're not even faking it. It's just like, you know, that's what my partner thinks it looks like for me, apparently. Or maybe your partner has that secret move that they think works so well that you actually secretly hate cause you're not talking about it openly. There's just so much opportunity for misunderstanding and miscommunication. One of Xander's absolute favorite things to do is tell me to drink more water.
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B
Womp, womp.
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A
Most of us know that we really should be drinking more water. But a lot of people just struggle with it because water can taste boring. So that's where Cure comes into play and can be your best friend. They make clean and simple plant based electrolytes with no added sugar. With delicious flavors like watermelon, berry, pomegranate and lemonade. Never too sweet or artificial tasting. They come in these super convenient little packets. So I throw a couple in my purse. Xander throws them in his car to drink after surfing. They also just came out with a new energy drink mix which is also plant based. It has 100 milligrams of natural caffeine plus electrolytes for focus and hydration with no jitters and no crash. That one comes in flavors like peach tea and acai berry. Seriously, they just taste really great. Staying hydrated is not just about water. You also need electrolytes. That's why we love Cure. It's clean and tastes great. Xander, I think, especially loves it right after surfing. It's just great to like replenish you. It's really great after a workout, after
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B
a workout, after sports or whatever. Nothing tastes better than an electrolyte mix. So yeah, pick up some cure.
- [16:47]
A
You can grab Cure on Amazon or find a store near you@cure hydration.com pillow. Real ingredients, real hydration. Talking about sex also creates intimacy. Here's where it gets really interesting. Like, I think your average person in a relationship would say that they want more intimacy in their relationship. But a lot of us feel stuck about how to actually create that intimacy. And one of the best ways to create intimacy is through vulnerability. Like, that's what intimacy is. When we are really open with each other, when we really show our full selves to each other. Like, you don't create intimacy by talking about like, how's the weather today? How was your day? Right? You create intimacy when you get really vulnerable and you talk about the real shit. So like, here is a great opportunity in front of you, there's so much vulnerability to share with your partner because our sexuality is such an intrinsic part of who we are, and there's so many things that get wrapped up in the way that we look about. Look at sex, the way that we think about sexual. There's so much opportunity to create intimacy just by talking about it.
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B
And you also can create intimacy by having more flirty type of conversations, which is another reason to talk about sex. Because talking about sex, it. You know, it can be vulnerable in intimacy building. It can also just be flirtatious and fun, and that can also build intimacy. I think those are really two kind of, you know, flip sides, sides of the same coin.
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A
I'm starting to curse you with being unable to remember idioms.
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B
I know. I tried to, like sides of the coin. I tried to, like, mash that one up. But no, those are kind of like two sides of the same coin. I think, you know, like, you can be really flirtatious and intimate, but you could also be really vulnerable and intimate.
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A
Mm. Yeah. When you get really comfortable communicating about sex, like, this is the big transition that happened for us. At first, it felt very vulnerable. It felt really tricky. But over time, as we've gotten more comfortable with it, it's become so flirty, and it really brings a lot of energy into our relationship.
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B
Oh, yeah.
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A
Like, even recording this PODC or doing our Instagram content like it. There's so much flirtatious energy that we get to have with each other simply by having these kinds of conversations. Talking about sex openly also helps you overcome sexual shame. We all have sexual shame. Myself included, Xander included. There is no way to grow up in this world without feeling some amount of shame. And so the way that we get rid of that shame is by bringing it out into the light, by, like, not sequestering sex as this. Like, oh, my God, it's this taboo thing that we're not supposed to talk about and we're not supposed to be doing. It's like, no, no. I want to acknowledge that I'm a sexual being. I want to talk about it out loud. I want to get to know myself better, get to know my partner better. Like, that is the key to overcoming shame.
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B
And kind of along the same lines that this. You could consider this shame, or you could consider this a separate thing. Often you might feel ashamed of this, but I think it can also really help combat performance anxiety and performance issues. I know for me, you know, around this time where we were struggling with this, I was also combating a number of performance anxieties. And it wasn't until we were able to really talk about those openly and what the experience was like, what the feelings were like, and, you know, feel like we were really understanding each other. And on the same page, it wasn't until you were able to do that that I was really able to. To kind of walk through those and feel like, oh, okay, this doesn't have to be all about me. This is something that we can address together. This is something I feel comfortable about. This is something I can feel confident about. And so I think that's another really big thing. It's just. Yeah. When we, you know, like, shame, you know, when we keep anxiety to ourselves, it tends to just create more anxiety. Just like, shame. And you gotta talk about this stuff in order to get through it.
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A
Yeah. You can't sit around waiting for you to magically just lose the shame. It's like the way that we get rid of the shame is by taking these active steps. And honestly, that's a much better way anyway, because just sitting around waiting for the shame to magically leave your body, like, there's no agency, no power that you have there versus you saying, you know what? Yeah, I feel some shame. Yeah, I feel some embarrassment. Yeah, I feel some anxiety, and I'm gonna choose to do it it anyway. It's a huge difference there because you have all the power. You have all the control. And we could keep going and going, but the last benefit that we want to mention is that talking about sex openly helps you have better sex.
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B
It's like, yeah, that's kind of what it's all about at the end of the day.
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A
At the end of the day, we all want to be having better sex. Like, more intimate, more playful, more exploratory, more connecting. And talking about it openly truly is the secret to having the sex that you've always wanted, wanted to have. So with all those benefits, what's holding us back from talking about sex with our partners? We turned over to our Instagram audience. We're at Vanessa and Xander. Please follow us there, because we do a lot of great polls for these episodes.
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B
Please.
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A
Especially if you're a man. We need more men in our community. We are so heavily, heavily female.
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B
Come talk to me, guys. Let's chat. Let's hang out. Let's talk about sex.
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A
Talk about being regular dudes.
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B
Let's talk about being men. It's cool.
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A
Okay. So we asked our community, what holds you back from talking about sex? And here are the most common answers. Fear of being Judged by my partner. Shame was a huge one, which we just talked about, of course. But people said things like overcoming my religious trauma or my religious upbringing. It feels taboo or it's just plain embarrassing.
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B
People saying they don't want to hurt their partner's feelings or fear that their partner is going to take it personally, or that their partner might start to feel or get insecure by talking about it. Just the fear that it's vulnerable.
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A
Another person said, my partner has more experience and it's intimidating sometimes. Another person said, we're in a long term relationship and we've never talked about it, so it feels too awkward to bring it up now.
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B
Another person said, I'm afraid it would make it seem like I care too much about sex. And this was a really common answer that we got from men. And then finally a lot of people just saying, I don't even know where to begin.
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A
Well, that's exactly why we are here.
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B
Wow.
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A
So these are all really understandable answers. They're things that held Xander and I back from talking about it openly too. And now that I'm on the other side of it and have developed so much more comfort with this, I can now see a lot, all of these as opportunities for growth, and opportunities for so much growth. Like, the shame one is the perfect example. Like rather than what what I just said a few minutes ago, like rather than just sitting, waiting for the shame to somehow dissipate on its own.
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B
Spoiler alert. It's not.
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A
Yeah, it's like you taking it into your own hands and like making active steps towards overcoming that shame. So all of these feelings that might be coming up for you, just imagine how good it would feel to overcome those feelings. All right, so let's get into our overall approach towards sexual communication and what we've really discovered, especially over the last few years, like in writing Sex Talks, is that our secret sauce is non goal oriented sexual communication.
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B
N G O, S C. We need
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A
to come up with a sexier name for that. No gh, no ghost. All right, so if you're listening and you're like, I got a better name for that, please DM us on Instagram. Vanessa and Xander, I need to noodle on this one a little bit longer and come up with a sexier name. But our secret to making sexual communication so much easier and so much more effective is to talk about it, especially at first in a non goal oriented way. So here's the mistake that most people make when it comes to talking about sexual they don't want to talk about it. They don't want to talk about it. They avoid it until something is really going wrong in their sex life. And then they bring it up with their partner. It's a big issue, a big problem. Maybe they're upset. All these feelings have been bubbling up. And of course it only makes for a scary and overwhelming conversation for the partner.
- [25:28]
B
Yeah. Because this then becomes an extreme, like a high stakes, goal oriented conversation. Like, the goal is to solve a significant problem or to deal with a significant amount of resentment that has boiled up or anger. So instead of it being even just like a small goal, like, oh, it'd be fun if you wore lingerie a little more often, it's become this massive goal. Like, oh, my God, we have to solve the problem that, like, we're not having enough sex. And when we do have sex, it's not very pleasurable and we're feeling disconnected.
- [26:00]
A
Yeah. So of course, like, having a conversation in that way, it's not going to be pleasant for either of you. And it's going to leave both of you feeling like sex is a very scary and hard thing to talk about.
- [26:11]
B
And also because, yeah, when it's a big goal like that, there is no, well, there's no easy solution. And there's also no single solution. There's no, like, okay, this is the thing that we do to solve that problem.
- [26:22]
A
Yeah. So we take a totally different approach. We don't want you to start talking about problems. We don't want you to try to start solving issues. We want you to just get comfortable talking about sex. That in and of itself is a big step for a lot of people, especially if you or your partner has never really talked about it before. Like, just getting comfortable is a really good goal. So in this episode, we're giving you a ton of techniques for just keeping it positive, light and not having any goals for a significant period of time. Because here's the other thing. Like, you don't want to do, like, just one of these techniques. Like, you have one little nice conversation and then you're immediately like, like, okay, well, so now that we're talking about, we really have to talk about how. I hate the way that you initiate. Right. Like, your partner's like, you don't want to put them on guard thinking, you know, oh, my partner's just teasing me with this, like, one little thing. But really the hammer's about to drop on me. And we also want you to not initiate sex for a while either. This is another mistake that a lot of people make. Like, they Start trying to talk about sex with their partner. And if they get any sort of positive response from their partner, then it's like, like, oh, well, do you want to go like, have sex right now? And again, like, that just puts your partner on edge. It makes it feel like there is an ulterior motive anytime you're bringing it up. And so we don't want that. We want your partner to learn to relax, to enjoy these conversations, and to not be so suspicious of you. All right, so let's get into our actual techniques for how to get your partner to start talking about sex. Even if they're nervous, resistant, freaked out. Never have before. So our first idea is to harness the power of compliments. Everybody loves a good compliment. We've polled our community before and the vast majority of people said that they wish their partner would give them compliments more often. So I think compliments are a really nice way to open up a conversation because it's a perfect example of being non goal oriented. It's not like you look so nice today. Wanna fuck? You know, like we're trying to give you, we're trying to help you get more playful with your compliments and get your partner like feeling good about themselves, feeling a sense of ease. And with compliments, like, you don't need to talk about sex directly yet you could talk more about your partner's like physical appearance or non physical things about your partner that attract you to them. So you don't even have to mention the word sex at all. Like it could be something like, oh my God, you look so good today. Or I'm still as attracted to you as I was the day that we met.
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B
Or. Yeah. Or like, oh, it's like so attractive how you just took care of everything with the kids this morning and let me sleep in a couple extra minutes or something like that.
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A
Yeah. So you're just starting to talk about attraction, intimacy, connection. But again, this is a very light PG way to get the conversation going and it's gonna give a lot of goodwill. Like your partner's just gonna feel good hearing these compliments. So it's gonna grease the wheels a little bit.
- [29:27]
B
Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of us even are hesitant to talk about stuff like attraction because it's like, oh, God. Well, that in and of itself might even lead to an uncomfortable topic. And then it's like, yeah, I mean, if you think about it, it's just kind of sad to be in a relationship with someone that, you know, you love them, you care about them, you are presumably attracted to them. But then we're not actually sharing those things on a very regular basis.
- [29:56]
A
Our next suggestion is to reminisce. So think about some of your favorite sexual memories with your partner and bring those memories up with them randomly. So you stroll into the kitchen, Your partner's making coffee. You can say something like, you know what just popped into my head? That time that we took the vacation to Colorado and that amazing hotel that we stayed in. And remember, we stayed in bed all day that one day that just popped into my head. It's just a fun little memory. So this is another great one because it's very flexible. You can be as PG as you want if this is really the beginning and your partner's nervous. Or you can get a little bit more explicit and talk about specific details of like, oh, we tried this position, or you used this technique on me, and I really liked it. But the reason that it works is, again, it's very positive. You're talking about some of your favorite experiences with your partner. You're helping them recall a really good moment between the two of you and helping them remember that the two of you have had great experiences together. So this is a great one. If you feel like you're in a rut, it's been a while. The sex has been kind of routine and predictable. It's like a good reminder to both of you of, hey, we have it in us. We can have good sex.
- [31:16]
B
All right, question for you, Vanessa. Okay, so I know that we said a second ago that we are not wanting at first. If you're bringing this up, you should not be initiating sex immediately after bringing this up. Cause you don't wanna create that connection to your partner. Oh, yeah. Whenever they try to bring up sex playfully, they're actually secretly trying to initiate. But with one of these, like the reminiscing, what if your partner actually responds really well to that, and then all of a sudden they are initiating sex with you because you've gotten them excited about this memory?
- [31:51]
A
Ooh, that's a really good question.
- [31:53]
B
Because I feel like that's something that is. Could very likely come up. My reaction would be like, if you're into it, hell yeah, go for it.
- [32:02]
A
Did you just ask and answer your own question? That's very, very male of you.
- [32:09]
B
Caught.
- [32:12]
A
Go ahead, continue answering.
- [32:13]
B
Well, but I'm curious. I'm curious what you think about that.
- [32:16]
A
We'll finish your answer.
- [32:18]
B
I would say that that would be fine. Because you want to talk about sex. Your partner got excited by you talking about Sex, and then they wanted to have sex with you. That seems like a win win situation. And, you know, you could circle back afterwards and say, hey, that was really fun. You know, you could even reinforce, hey, that was like, fun that we were able to talk about that. It was fun that we had sex afterward. And, you know, I was into that. And also, like, you know, I wasn't even. And just to be clear, I wasn't intending to, like, subtly initiate by bringing that up. Like, you know, I just. I want us to be able to talk about this stuff, you know, whether we are having sex or not.
- [33:06]
A
Well, you've been spending a lot of time with me because that's the exact answer that I would have given.
- [33:11]
B
Wow.
- [33:11]
A
There you go.
- [33:12]
B
Wow.
- [33:13]
A
Yeah.
- [33:13]
B
Expert approved.
- [33:14]
A
I would never tell somebody. Like, you don't want to tell your partner? Like, no, no, we can't have sex. It's against the rules. Like, if you're both in the mood and it feels exciting and fun, go for it. But yeah, I would loop back around afterwards and say, like, well, that was not my intention in bringing that up, but that was really fun.
- [33:30]
B
Yeah. Because I could. I could just see a lot of people listening to this and getting a little hung up on this because it's like they understand, okay, yeah, I don't want to create that connection. But then what if my partner then initiates? Then am I supposed to. Am I supposed to then go overboard to shut it down? But then that creates like, a kind of weird disconnect. Like, God, like, why does my partner keep talking about. About sex? And then they refuse to have sex with me. So it's a balance, people. It's a balance, but it's just about not making it seem like you are trying to coerce them into having sex by talking about it.
- [34:03]
A
Exactly.
- [34:08]
B
Do you wish you had more fun in your relationship?
- [34:10]
A
If you're like most couples, you do, but you also struggle with, like, what exactly to do to have more fun and feel more connected.
- [34:19]
B
And that is exactly why we created the Spark.
- [34:22]
A
It's a monthly digital drop where you get one sweet date night, one spicy date night, a new sex position to try and therapist created connection questions delivered straight to your inbox. It is designed to keep things fresh, flirty, and easy, even in the busiest seasons of life.
- [34:41]
B
Yeah. No planning, no awkward. What should we dos?
- [34:44]
A
We lay out everything for you. All you have to do is follow the instructions. And the best part is that it is nine bucks per month. That's like the cost of a latte these days.
- [34:56]
B
Yeah. So if you're ready for more laughter, more curiosity, and more fun, head on over to vmtherapy.com spark to join.
- [35:05]
A
That's vmtherapy.com spark because a little spark goes a long way. All right, our next tip is a very sneaky one, and that is to buy a copy of our book Sex Talks and put it on your nightstand. Oh, so just put it there. You don't have to mention anything about it, but read it. At night, when the two of you are in bed alone, just grab your book, start reading it. Your partner will ask you about it. Like, this is a guaranteed conversation starter. It would be very strange for your partner not once to mention, what is that book that you're reading? Right. Like Sex Talks is. It's Sex Talks in big old font on the front. Like, they will see it. So don't buy the Kindle version. You need to have, like, the physical version there so that your partner can actually see it. So, again, this is a very sneaky little technique where you don't actually have to say anything at first. So this is a great one if you're feeling shy yourself, but it's going to open up a conversation, and it's going to put the topic top of mind for your partner.
- [36:15]
B
Okay. And then added bonus points in addition to just buying one copy to put on your nightstand, buy two copies, put one on your nightstand, and put another one on your partner's nightstand. See how long it takes. Then they'll. Then they'll ask even quicker, what's up with this book?
- [36:32]
A
That's a good one. Okay, so our next tip is a continuation of our sneaky theme. Our next few tips are definitely sneaky, sneaky ones. So go over to our Instagram. We're Enessa and Xander. Xander with an X. Look through our reels, find one that is interesting to you, and play it out loud when your partner's nearby. But here's the trick with this one. Don't do one that's super obvious that your partner's gonna know, like, they're playing that. Cause they want me to listen to it. And don't make it one that is a complaint that you currently have or an issue that you currently have. So if you feel like you guys aren't having very much sex sex, don't pick one that's like, here's why couples aren't having enough sex. Like, pick something that feels kind of. It's interesting to you. Maybe one of the funny ones.
- [37:23]
B
Maybe I might suggest our smash or Pass series. That's a really good one. It's funny. It's us talking about kind of like usually typically bad moves in the bedroom that others have suggested we try them out. We tell you how it actually was. Every now and then there's a gem. Most of them are duds, but so it's kind of funny. That's a good one. Unless your partner typically does that move. Maybe don't play that one, but probably your partner doesn't because these are some weird ones.
- [37:51]
A
Yeah. So play the reel in the background with the volume up when they are conveniently nearby and it will probably most likely get their attention. They might ask, like, what are you watching?
- [38:02]
B
Yeah, why? Why is this weird couple talking about sex so openly on Instagram?
- [38:07]
A
And it just gives you a natural conversation opener. And that's why I suggest picking that doesn't feel directly related to your relationship so that you guys can have more of an objective conversation where it's like, oh, yeah, I've never really thought about this idea that they have about how desire isn't really as important as most people think it is. What do you think about that? So it's this more objective conversation rather than, yeah, we really have a big problem in our relationship. So that's why I'm following this account. So. And a similar technique that you can use is just go for the reels on our account that are purely funny. Like Xander mentioned. Smash youh Pass. Another great series that we have. It's like the worst sex positions. So these ones are great because it's not teaching anything. It's not a like, huh? Nudge, nudge, wink, wink. Maybe we should try this kind of thing. It's like, just meant to be humor. And we make these purposefully because we want to give you an opportunity to ask your partner to like, watch our account, to follow it. It's just, oh, look at this. It's so funny. But again, it's not a goal oriented type of thing. So watch the funny reels together. Laugh with your partner. And those ones are easier to show your partner. Like, oh my God, look at this ridiculous sex position that this couple is trying out. And then they might ask, like, what is this account? Like, these are really funny. They might follow it as well. So then it's another great way to get the conversation started. And of course, you can also use pillow talks to be a sneaky conversation opener. So put an episode on while you're like, like home doing the chores and your partner's nearby. Or maybe during a car ride where it's just the two of you, obviously. No kids in the background, unless they're really tiny and can't understand anything. But, like, put it on when it's just the two of you in the car and listen to it together.
- [39:56]
B
Yeah. Or you can also put on the audio of our book, Sex Talks. It's on audible. I think it's also on, like, Spotify, so definitely that's another option.
- [40:06]
A
Yeah. And if you're listening to Pillow Talks, I suggest the same sort of advice that I mentioned with with Instagram reels. Like, pick one that doesn't directly apply to your situation so your partner's not like, okay, I see what you're doing there. So we have a lot of great. Similar to what we do with reels. Like, we make a lot of Pillow Talks episodes that are meant to be conversation openers. So all of our, like, advice episodes are really great. There's like, am I the asshole? There's a Smasher Pass podcast series as well. So any of those are great. Cause then you can kind of of. I really like the advice ones in particular because you can, like, listen to, like, we'll read somebody's scenario. You can pause and ask your partner, like, what do you think about that? Like, before you even hear our advice, like, what do you think? What would you do? What would you suggest? So, again, it's like, the more that you're talking about it in this objective way, and even when it's like, we're talking about other people's sex life, not our own, we don't have to go there yet. We're talking about other people. That just makes it feel so much easier. Next technique is a little bit of a lie, but it's a good one. Just tell your partner that you had a sexy dream about them. So this is another great one because it's so flexible. You can say literally something as simple as, like, I had a sexy little dream about you last night and leave it at that. You could even, like, walk away and be kind of like a cute little tease about it. Or you could say, like, I had a sexy dream about you last night. We were doing xyz, or this was happening. And you can be as subtle as you want or as explicit as you want, but it's another great way to, like, introduce the topic of sex, but without it feeling. Without making your partner feel like you're about to drop a bomb on them.
- [41:51]
B
Yeah. And usually we don't ever give you any kind of advice that has any deceit in it. I think this one is pretty harmless. However, if you wanna make it it so that it is completely 100% above board, you could be like, oh, I was just, like, zoning out yesterday or earlier today and kind of caught myself thinking about X, Y and Z, or, like, just imagining this happening. Or, like, you know, I was, like, almost drifting off to sleep and just had this thought, something like that. Like, you can share the exact same content in that way, where you can kind of be like, yeah, I wasn't really actively thinking about it. It just sort of came to mind and, ooh, that was exciting.
- [42:34]
A
Our next technique is to use examples from TV shows. So I will say we talk a lot about how the sex that's on TV and in the movies is crap. Like, it's meant to be entertainment. It's not meant to be realistic. A lot of us get a lot of misconceptions about how sex actually works because of the sex. The sex scenes we've seen on TV and in the movies. So don't take this as, like, you know, oh, all those scenes are great. But the reason I like this tip is because there are so many sex scenes on TV and movies, it actually gives us a lot of opportunities to talk about sex. So if you're watching a show and there's a scene, pause the scene and ask your partner, like, did you think that was a good sex scene? Or, like, what'd you like about that? What did you think was hot about that? So again, you're talking about other people having sex. So it's not about the two of you. It doesn't feel as personal. It might feel a lot easier for your partner to, like, open up and share some things. It's also something that has just, like, naturally occurred. So it's like, it doesn't feel weird to ask about it. You're like, oh, yeah, what'd you think of that? It doesn't feel like you're bringing sex up out of nowhere. So it's just a natural way to open up easy conversations.
- [43:43]
B
I think a positive thing to do with this is as well, especially if you and your partner may be on slightly different pages about how realistic these things are, or you might be on different pages in terms of how aware you are of the impacts that just seeing these unrealistic scenes over and over has on you. You could use this also as an opportunity to kind of reinforce what elements seem unrealistic or, like, okay, yeah, I can see how they portrayed it that way in real life. Like. Like, you know, oh, if we were to do X, Y, and Z. That might be a way to incorporate something like that in a more realistic way. So I feel like there are a lot of ways to. To bring some realism to it. If you talk about applying it to your own sex life or even just calling out. Yeah, obviously, like, that would never happen because two bodies don't fit together that way or. Or whatever. And that can be a helpful way to get your partner and be like, oh, yeah, yeah, that is weird. Yeah, that doesn't work like that.
- [44:42]
A
Our next technique is to blame us. We give you full permission here to just completely blame everything on us here. So you could say to your partner something like, you know, I follow this sex therapist online and.
- [44:55]
B
Or I just follow this regular dude online. Yeah, he's super random, and he talks about sex. It's not creepy at all.
- [45:01]
A
And the two of them say that it's really important to talk about sex so you can tell your partner something like, you know what? I've been following this sex therapist and her regular dude husband on Instagram. Or I listen to their podcast, and they were talking lately about how important it is to talk about sex. And, you know, that's, like, not something that I've really thought about before, but it makes a lot of sense. So use us as a way to open the conversation, and you can, you know, say to your partner, like, yeah, that it wasn't something that I thought of before, or even say, like. Like, it's not something that I'm comfortable doing. But what they were saying made a lot of sense. I want to work towards that. That could just be, like, a great way to open that conversation up with your partner. And you could even say, like, we give you permission to share this too. Like, you could say they said that their relationship really struggled because they didn't talk about it. So I want to, like, make sure that we don't get into that same sort of bad place. So obviously, you'll need to tailor it based on whatever your unique situation is. But I think blaming it on us softens it for your partner, because it's not you coming to them saying, like, we need to talk. That's everybody's least favorite sentence, right? But it's just like, oh, yeah, like, I heard these guys talking about it. They said it was good. They said to avoid doing this, you know, like, so that just, like, makes sense to me. Our next tip is a little bit of a variation, which is just to use text or email to open the conversation instead.
- [46:21]
B
What about snail mail?
- [46:23]
A
Sure, sure. Send them a letter I mean, email.
- [46:26]
B
Email is even starting to sound a little outdated as we're like, oh, send me an email. Like, if I send you an email, like, it might be a number of days before you read it.
- [46:36]
A
I know, well, feel free to do whatever form of text you want to do. But the basic idea here is that some people are just a lot more comfortable communicating over text than they are face to face. So this is a great tip. If your partner, if you know that about your partner, if they're super shy, if you are feeling super shy, like, it's a great starter tip and you can use any of the other techniques that we've already talked about to start doing this, but it's just a different option. Next up, we have what we call the post game recap. So this is right after you've just had sex. Use that as a natural conversation opener. It really works because sex is top of mind. You've just had it. It you have some specific examples of things that you can talk about. And again, this is where we want you to keep it. Positive, light, non goal oriented. So just things like even as simple as that was fun. I liked that position. I liked how you kissed me this way. I liked that you did this. Like, it's just such an easy way to start talking about it.
- [47:36]
B
And I think the key here, especially at first with this one, is to keep it general as well. We hear from people all the time where they're like, oh, my partner started doing this. And now they like go super in depth, like going through every single moment of the sexual interaction. Like, oh, yeah, well, that was super hot. And then you started touching me and that was all right. And then we went to, you know.
- [47:56]
A
Yeah, not that much detail.
- [47:57]
B
Yeah, like, let's not break it down in detail. In general. We don't really ever advocate for like the full, like full debrief kind of.
- [48:06]
A
Yeah, just a few light notes.
- [48:08]
B
Yeah, high, high level. Like. Yeah. What. What was enjoyable?
- [48:12]
A
All right. And the last technique that we want to share with you is the heartfelt request. So at the end of the day, if you try out all of these techniques and your partner's still not budging, they're just not engaging with you, then it's time to, like, be a little bit more direct. And what I would do is share with your partner the specific reasons why you want to talk about sex, the benefits in particular that you think it would have, and you wanna give them an out to talk about their discomfort, like what comes up for them. So I would phrase it Something like this, like, hey, I really want us to be able to talk about sex just openly in our relationship. Like whenever we talk about just makes me feel so connected to you, so close to you. Like, it feels really intimate to me. And I know at the same time that it's really challenging. Like I've had my own struggles with embarrassment or shame coming up, but it is something that I really want to work on. And I'm curious, like, what comes up for you when you think about talking about sex with me? So again, you sharing the benefits, you sharing your own challenges that you have to overcome and you asking your partner and getting curious about like, what comes up for you. So that's going to be a great little recipe to open a more meaningful conversation if your partner is really struggling to respond to any of the other tips that we gave. But overall, what we want to encourage you to do is really just continue talking about sex in little ways often. Like if you could get to the point where you're just having at least small mentions of it every day. And again, where it's non goal oriented, this is not just like want to have sex later, you know, all throughout the day. It's just like little mentions of it, having it be a topic of conversation. Just the way you talk about, what are we going to have for dinner, what's the weather like, what's our schedule tomorrow that's going to make it feel so much easier and so much more fun, like playful and really connecting. So be consistent. Don't just have one conversation and think like, okay, that's it, we're not doing it again. And be patient, especially if your partner is struggling to get on board and not, you know, responding in the exact ways that you want it to. But just keep being consistent. Cause this really will pay off.
- [50:24]
B
Yeah, I was gonna say, don't be discouraged if the first couple of times you don't get the response that you were hoping for. Because we have just been really hardwired to avoid this stuff. And you know, your partner could be working with a whole like host of different discomforts that are coming up. And it's just going to take repetition of like, oh, they said that and nothing happened, nothing bad happened. You know, they didn't push me to, to talk about it more. Whatever. You might need just a number of repetitions before your partner starts to really feel comfortable with it.
- [51:00]
A
All right, well, if you found this episode helpful, good news for you is that we have so many more resources in the topic of sexual communication.
- [51:09]
B
Sure do.
- [51:10]
A
In our Book sex talks, the five conversations that will transform your love life. We obviously mentioned it a couple times in this episode, but it really is. Is the best journey towards getting comfortable talking about sex. We walk you through, like, how to get more comfortable talking about it on your own, understanding the kinds of things to communicate to your partner. Those five specific conversations that we think are going to have a huge impact on any relationship. And even we talk about things like navigating common pitfalls. Like, if your partner says this, then you say that back to them if they say this and you say that. So it's just a really fun book. We tell a lot of our own story to really normalize. Like, we've learned the hard way. We have gone through, like, no communication, bad communication, all the things. So I think, like, us sharing our vulnerability helps make it a lot easier for people to read and recognize. Like, oh my God, we're not alone. We're not the only couple struggling with this.
- [52:03]
B
It's also a really easy, fun read.
- [52:06]
A
Oh, yeah, super fun. Fun and easy read. I wanted to actually read you one message that we got from somebody. This is a woman who wrote in. Just wanted to let you guys know that I ordered the book and we decided to read it aloud together in small chunks before bed. We just started and after we turned out the lights, my husband said, thanks for finding this book and suggesting it. Actually, thanks for finding these people on the Internet. They've been a huge net positive in our relationship. Thanks for all the good you're putting out into the world and especially for the impact you've had on our marriage. I loved that little note. I thought it was really sweet and I wanted to give an example of. Of one where a husband was really on board. Because let's be honest, like, we do hear more often from women. Like, I want to talk about it, but my male partner is really struggling with it. So I just wanted to share that little bit of hope for those of you who are feeling nervous about talking to your husband. So if you want to check out Sex Talks, it is out in every form. Hardcover, paper book, ebook, and audiobook.
- [53:02]
B
Paper book.
- [53:03]
A
What did I say?
- [53:04]
B
You said paper book.
- [53:05]
A
I mean, it is a paper book. Paperback, hardcover and paperback, ebook and audiobook. There you go. You can find the links to all of those@sextalksbook.com that's sextalksbook.com we'll put the link in the show notes as well. And after you purchase, you'll see a little section on the page where you can enter your invoice number and we will send you a free 69 page workbook to accompany it. I swear we did not intend to make this 69 pages. It was one of the happiest little accidents. But it's a really great workbook filled with, like, exercise and prompts that we had to cut out of the book for length. But we were like, we can't get rid of all this. This is some good shit. So you get all of that for free to go through it. And that is all for today's episode of Pillow Talks. Thank you so much for listening. Join us again next week. We release new episodes every.