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Pillow Talks
EPISODE 205: Couples Coaching Session: How To Ask For More Even If You Don’t Know What You Want
00:57:18
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- [00:00]
Vanessa Marin
We're telling people to do those little things that, like, we all know we should be doing, but we're not doing them. But they do make such a big difference. Like having that quality time where you're asking each other interesting, meaningful questions rather than just getting your phones out and putting on the same old Netflix show. It's having, you know, taking that time to make eye contact with each other, to have non sexual touch, like give each other kisses, to hug each other, like, those things really do make such a big impact. Hello and welcome to the Pillow Talks podcast. We're your hosts, Vanessa and Xander Marin. I'm a sex Therapist with over 20.
- [00:42]
Xander Marin
Years of experience, and I'm just a regular dude. We share the ups and downs in our relationship while giving you step by step techniques for improving yours.
- [00:51]
Vanessa Marin
Make sure you subscribe for your weekly double date full of totally doable sex tips, practical relationship advice, hilarious and honest stories of what really goes on behind closed bedroom doors, and so much more. It's the sex education you wish you'd had. Today we are going deeper with a few couples. So a few weeks ago, we did something brand new for the podcast. We had voice notes from couples, like, walking us through what's going on in their relationship, the challenges that were coming up, the questions that they had. And our initial plan with that episode was to do three couples. We had three different sets of voice notes and we ended up having so much fun with that episode that we just did one.
- [01:38]
Xander Marin
I mean, we gave so much value. That was so much to talk about.
- [01:42]
Vanessa Marin
Yeah, no, we had a great time.
- [01:44]
Xander Marin
We got into the middle of it and we were like, okay, well, we could try to speed through this one and get to these other ones or we could just, like, do this one the justice that it deserves. And we did. So now we got some more.
- [01:56]
Vanessa Marin
Because I think there's just something so unique about being able to hear someone's voice as they're describing an issue. We've shared a million stories from our community, but it, you know, it's us reading it versus somebody in their own voice, like kind of stumbling over the words and feeling awkward. And you hear the emotion behind the story that they're telling.
- [02:15]
Xander Marin
Yeah. It means more when it's in their own voice.
- [02:18]
Vanessa Marin
So we asked you guys, you know, did you like this episode? Do you want to hear the other two stories? And we got so much feedback from people saying, like, please do it right away. Like, we want to hear it. That was so great. So we are back today with two more stories from two Real couples.
- [02:35]
Xander Marin
Also, I just have to say, I am definitely riding a high from yesterday. Yesterday, we had our very first live session with our deeper community, which is our membership for couples. And Vanessa and I. Vanessa and I did a lot of what you're going to hear in this episode, but for a lot of people, we took a lot of questions, did a lot of Q and a. You know, Vanessa and I would give our response. We'd ask people for more detail, and we had such a good time. And someone gave me the nicest compliment. It really. It really let me up. Yeah. Yeah. Do you want to share?
- [03:10]
Vanessa Marin
Do you want me to read it?
- [03:11]
Xander Marin
Yeah, it was really sweet.
- [03:13]
Vanessa Marin
You just want to hear a compliment about yourself, Xander, you are not an ordinary dude anymore. You are an awesome sex coach now.
- [03:22]
Xander Marin
Yeah, that felt really good to hear. It felt really good to hear. Because it's. You know, on the one hand, yeah, I am. I am the regular dude. I'm also a regular dude who's been doing this. Doing this for a long time. And yeah, it. It feels good to. You know, I. I think it's. Sometimes it's easy to undervalue your own value sometimes. And yeah, it feels good to be able to. It feels good to really be able to show up for people and help them.
- [03:50]
Vanessa Marin
I'm glad to hear it.
- [03:51]
Xander Marin
That. That made me happy. It makes me feel, you know, more comfortable continuing to coach people and contin. Continuing to try to make a difference in people's lives.
- [04:01]
Vanessa Marin
Well, let's keep the fun rolling.
- [04:03]
Xander Marin
Yeah, let's do it. But first, we are going to do our review of the week. So if you haven't heard, reviews help us so much, whether that's a review of the podcast on Apple Podcasts or just a dm, letting us know that you're loving one of our courses, letting us know, like, how it's helping you out. So we read a review aloud at the beginning of every episode. And if this is yours, you've won. All you have to do is DM us at Vanessa and Xander on Instagram or. Or email us@infomtherapy.com we will hook you up with a free masterclass. And if you want to enter yourself into the review of the week giveaway, all you have to do is leave a review on Apple Podcasts for Pillow talks or DM us. And let us know if you've purchased one of our courses. Let us know how it has changed your life or your relationship. So this week's I wish I found you sooner. The good news is I'm here now. Oh, my goodness. Oh, my goodness. Oh, my goodness. I've been married for 18 years. My, oh my. Would this podcast have saved a lot of Crying myself to sleep at night? For the first time, I don't feel broken. As a woman who loves sex now, I know my husband and I just speak very different languages. Stress has truly zapped his sex drive. And of course, me making him feel bad makes it worse. But now we have the tools to work with. You've given me hope that our sex life can be exactly what I wanted it to be. My husband is eager and open to learning and listening as well. I've already sent this podcast out to more women than I can count. I truly feel this very podcast will save many marriages. Thank you again. Happy tears running down my face.
- [05:31]
Vanessa Marin
Oh, that's a really sweet one, that is. Thank you so much. And thank you for sharing with your friends too. It's incredible to hear. I hate to break it to you, but you are probably clenching your teeth at night.
- [05:47]
Xander Marin
I'm definitely clenching my teeth at night.
- [05:49]
Vanessa Marin
I am too. We both do. Most people don't know though, but so many people grind or clench their teeth at night, and it can lead to a lot of problems. Jaw pain, headaches, even damage to your teeth, like eroding your enamel, leading to broken teeth. So the solution to protecting your entire head is a mouth guard. But the problem is most mouth guards from the dentist can cost you around 500 to $800.
- [06:16]
Xander Marin
Yeah, I know all about this. I've been through so many mouth guards and so many of them were so uncomfortable, which is why I went through so many and they cost so much and it's such a pain because you're like, this thing is not comfortable. But I just spent so much money on it. Like, what am I supposed to do now?
- [06:31]
Vanessa Marin
The good news is that there is Remy. Remy makes dental grade, professional quality mouth guards without the painful price tag. They're up to 80% cheaper than what you'd pay at the dentist, and you don't even have to visit a dentist office. So we got the kits in the mail. They're super easy. You just make little impressions of your mouth. We are both on a teeth straightening journey right now. So as soon as we're done with that, then we're gonna be ordering our Remy kits. But we checked out the kits and they just. They're super, super easy to use. You just send them back in the mail and then they will send you your custom fit guards. And there's a 45 night satisfaction guarantee so you can try it risk free, sleep better and decide if it's the perfect fit. If not, Remy has got you covered. Remy is for anyone dealing with nighttime grinding, clenching or jaw pain who wants an affordable solution to protect their smile and say goodnight to jaw pain and headaches. Head to shopremy.compillow and use code pillow to save up to 50%. That's 50% off at shop rmi.compillow with code pillow. Give your teeth a break without breaking the bank with Remy. Thank you Remy for sponsoring this episode. All right, so let's get into our first submission. So initially this woman sent over a little note. She said, I saw your guys story on IG and I thought, what could it hurt? I don't know how much info you're looking for, so I'll keep it short. My husband and I have been together nine years, married for six. We have a good sex life, but I'm craving more and I know he wouldn't hate a little extra spice either. I'm just not sure how to get us there. We've tried toys and aren't afraid to experiment with new things. I just think we're unsure of how to communicate it to each other or we're not even totally sure what we want to add or change. I've started noticing myself thinking about sex and pleasure more often and wishing I enjoyed it more or that there was more excitement with it open to any help. Okay, so once we got that note from her, we sent her back a message asking her to record a voice note answering these questions. And we did this with the second couple too. Tell us about the intimacy in your relationship overall. Tell us about an average sexual experience. What problems or issues do you have with your sex life? What do you want to change? What have you already done to try to fix things? And what does your ideal sex life look like? Okay, so here's the voice note that she sent back.
- [08:59]
Couple 1
Hey, my name is. Here are some hopefully pretty quick answers to your questions. So my husband's and my intimacy in general is decent. I think definitely could use some work. I think we've fallen into over the past nine years of being together. You know, the sitting on the couch and both being on our phone situations, the falling asleep without really snuggling in bed or being close other than just being in the same bed next to each other, coming and going from shift work. We've both been working shift work for about 12 years now. So I think it's just a lot of like crossing paths Sometimes feeling like roommates. We do have two younger kiddos, and so that can also kind of interfere with things. But when we do take the time to either plan out or make time for intimacy, whether it's sex, a date night, sitting next to each other on the couch and not being on our phones, those sorts of things, there definitely is still the passion and love and connection there. It just feels like that's more few and far between or more rare of occurrences. I think an average sexual experience for us. Oh, I'm totally going to out my husband here. I mean, honestly, it's really quick. It's sometimes a few minutes of foreplay at best. If it's like a really crazy night, we've gone out, we've had a couple of drinks or something like that, you know, it can be maybe a little more extended, some additional toys thrown in there. But for the most part it's maybe some brief touching, if you want to call it foreplay, we'll end up having sex. It's very brief at best. And I feel like a lot of the time I'm left wanting more, to be honest. And that's pretty much it. I mean, sometimes I'll finish myself at the end. Sorry for the tmi, but yeah, I think more of our average sexual experiences are pretty quick, with some left to be desired problems or issues we've had in our sex life. I think how fast things end has kind of been a common theme for us over the years. I think in the beginning of our relationship, we both were afraid to communicate our wants and needs to each other, especially related to sexual intimacy. And I think that's gotten better as we've tried to communicate over the the years. But I think it's almost like we're not exactly sure what we want out of it or what we'd like to change. And so that may be something we look for help with as well. I think we both want more or maybe want things different, want to explore more and be more open to different things. We could do or try or anything like that. I just don't know that we know what we want. What I personally, I'll speak for myself, would like to change is I think I'd like more like passion, more heat, more like throw me up against the wall and like, I want him to crave me. I want him to come home at the end of the day and be like, I can't wait to have sex with you. I can't wait to lay next to you. Those types of things. Now, again, we've been together almost a decade, and I know those things kind of tend to fade or become more distant and all of that, but I think here and there, it's definitely something that I would love to see come into play more often. So things we've done to try to fix things again, we've gotten much better at communicating about our wants and needs or maybe what we think we want or need. We've incorporated toys or similar objects or things like that that we've kind of started to experiment with a little bit. I think there's just also a lot of unknown or again, maybe just not knowing what it is that either of us wants out of it ourselves. And so it's hard to ask our partner for that. My ideal sex life, I kind of explained, again, kind of the hot and heavy or craving or passionate. But also maybe I'm unsure about what I would like that to look like. And then I don't really think I have any other questions for you. I will cut this short because I think I am just jabbering on at this point, but I hope this helped and answered your questions. Thank you.
- [13:27]
Xander Marin
Oh, this is so, so interesting. This is. This is actually the second time I've heard that voice note, you know, in its entirety. And I think actually the second time I've heard it, I'm thinking a little differently about this one. Okay, so here's what's really interesting to me. I think that, like, she definitely knows a lot of the little things. Like, at the very beginning, she's talking about, like, stuff that's missing, like, some of the passion. They're not touching each other very much. They're, you know, kind of like sitting on the couch separ. When, you know, maybe they could be doing other things that might be building their connection or kind of bumping up the passion. So it's like she knows all of that stuff. She. Then she's talking about a lot of other things, though, that are missing some very key, important things, like. But I think she's. She's not putting that much value on. I think what the most important part is. And instead she's. She's saying all these kind of bigger things that she wants, like, oh, she would like more passion, more variety. But what I'm really hearing in this, what I think is really missing is they're. They're not having very much sex, it sounds like. And the sex that they are having, at least with the activities that they're doing, the routine that they're in, it goes very quickly. And I suspect it ends up not feeling very fulfilling to her.
- [14:52]
Vanessa Marin
Yeah.
- [14:53]
Xander Marin
And for him, I would imagine there's probably some level of embarrassment or shame about how fast it is going and feeling like he's not really able to satisfy her. I think men can really get in their heads thinking, like, my penis is solely responsible for giving her the pleasure. And once my penis is done, we are done. And it's easier, I think, for a guy. Cause I've done this for a long. I did this for a very long time. It's easier to just kind of shrink away and be like, oh, okay, yeah, I guess we're done.
- [15:22]
Vanessa Marin
Shrink is a funny word to use. Isn't that true?
- [15:25]
Xander Marin
Literally, to shrink away and kind of bury your head in the sand rather than approaching it head on and being like, hey, like, this isn't. This isn't feeling great for either of us. Let's set. Set my penis aside, literally, and let's think about how we can make this more fulfilling for both of us. And I. I think that he's probably gotten himself into a bad pattern of, like, he is worried that he's not going to last very long. So of course he's not approaching her with a lot of passion. Of course he's not throwing her up against the wall. Because he probably feels like, you know, if by him initiating, it's like. Or by doing anything out of the ordinary, it's like he's trying to. He's trying to, like, write a check that he can't cash because he is worried about his performance. So it's like, I feel like the. We got to figure out the basics for them, which is how do we get her feeling more fulfilled and how do we get them into a different routine where sex can last longer, Whether that's intercourse or intercourse plus more.
- [16:25]
Vanessa Marin
Yeah, I agree with you on that.
- [16:27]
Xander Marin
And then I think a lot of the other stuff will naturally come, or that's something that can be addressed next. But I wouldn't try to address, like, oh, how do we add all this new stuff until we get the basics down?
- [16:40]
Vanessa Marin
Yeah. I think so often people jump ahead to the new stuff. Cause we hear that advice all the time. Like, you just have to spice it up. I mean, I think she literally said, like, spicing it up in the original message that she sent over. So our minds go to that so quickly, like, oh, we just need to do some new things.
- [16:55]
Xander Marin
Which is good advice.
- [16:57]
Vanessa Marin
Yeah, it is good advice. But oftentimes we go to that instead of thinking about the basic stuff, too. And I think that it's really that foundational stuff that's missing. Like, I would guess that the way that they used to have sex at the beginning of their relationship versus the way that they have sex now, there's enough of a difference there that if they had just gone back to let's bring back some of the stuff that we used to do that we've been neglecting doing rather than thinking we have to add all this new stuff.
- [17:25]
Xander Marin
Yeah. And also I think the other thing, the other challenge that we have is whether, you know, if one person is perhaps having a performance issue and so the intercourse isn't able to last very long or the entire experience isn't able to last very long because you don't have a different routine that you can do, or when one partner isn't feeling fulfilled, whether it's because of a performance issue or. Or just like they're not having consistent orgasms, it can be easy to jump ahead and be like, oh, we just have to bump up the exploration and then maybe the other problems will get solved. And I hate to say it, exploration won't solve pleasure. Problems like exploration is meant to take things up a notch, but you have to be like, at the right level first for you to be able to get to the next level. You can't skip over like, oh, okay, yeah, we just start exploring all these things and then, oh, magically I start having orgasms all the time from like the stuff that we were doing before that wasn't working for me. Yeah.
- [18:22]
Vanessa Marin
There's a funny comparison coming to mind. For me, it's like, it's like you're cooking and you keep trying to throw in all these crazy new spices. That's why I'm thinking of this, keeping it spicy. You're like, oh, let me get the, like now I'm totally blanking on a unique spice. Let me get the cumin.
- [18:39]
Xander Marin
The fenugreek.
- [18:39]
Vanessa Marin
Let me get the fenugreek.
- [18:40]
Couple 2
The bear beret.
- [18:42]
Vanessa Marin
I was actually gonna say bear beret, but then I didn't know how to pronounce it and I. My God, the va de vine, vah de vin. And you've just forgotten about the friggin salt and pepper. The salt and pepper has to be there. And then you can add the berbere. That's great.
- [18:56]
Xander Marin
I wasn't sure where you were going with this. I was going to give a different one. Which is, which is like. You're like, oh, you know what? Like, I'm like, I'm not very happy with the meals that are coming out when I'm cooking. So I have a good idea. I'm going to go buy like the Thomas Keller French Laundry cookbook and start cooking these like, you know, three star Michelin recipes. But you don't actually know the basics of cooking. And you're like trying to follow this recipe and you're like, what the hell is this technique that they're referring to? Right? Like it doesn't make any sense to jump ahead to the advanced when you don't have the, you know, the, the basic, the fundamental or the intermediate, so to speak.
- [19:35]
Vanessa Marin
Yeah, absolutely.
- [19:36]
Xander Marin
And that's not to say that these guys don't know what they're doing. I feel like they are going to get this down really fast once they make a couple small changes.
- [19:44]
Vanessa Marin
Well, it's interesting too because I, I feel like there's also a similar pattern with the emotional intimacy in their relationship too. Like she says right at the beginning of the voice note, you know, we've fallen into the bad patterns. We're not, you know, we're sitting on the couch on our phones, we're not having any non sexual touch. And it's like she knows that those things are important, but they're not doing it. And again, it's a sense of like, well, I just, you know, we need to do something new. We need to like, find some different way to feel connected. And it's like, no, just do the things that you already know work that you already know are impactful for you. And that happens so often in relationships. Okay. I feel like a lot of the advice that you and I give, it's very basic stuff. Like we're not rewriting history, we're not doing rocket science. I don't know rocket science.
- [20:34]
Xander Marin
There you go. It's not rocket science.
- [20:35]
Vanessa Marin
We're not coming up with rocket science science here. We're telling people to do those little things that like, we all know we should be doing, but we're not doing them. But they do make such a big difference. Like having that quality time where you're asking each other interesting, meaningful questions rather than just getting your phones out and putting on the same old Netflix show. It's having, you know, taking that time to make eye contact with each other, to have non sexual touch, like give each other kisses, to hug each other. Like those things really do make such a big impact.
- [21:05]
Xander Marin
I also would not be surprised if potentially if this guy is perhaps avoiding a bit of emotional intimacy because he knows the more emotional intimacy we have, the more, more she's going to want to have sex with me. And I think that there's probably, he's probably having some worry, some self consciousness about his ability to really be ready. And so it's like this weird self fulfilling prophecy where like he's avoidant of being intimate because he's probably a bit embarrassed about, you know, about one, how long he lasts and two, like how much he's able to fulfill fill her. And so he avoids it. And so more time goes by before they do it. And so when they do do it, of course he's unprepared.
- [21:48]
Vanessa Marin
Yeah.
- [21:49]
Xander Marin
So it's like we got into this cycle with performance where it's like, then we avoid doing it so we don't have very much practice doing it. And so that when we do do it we get really excited and it's like it just, it spirals and spirals. And so I do think that it would be beneficial for him to maybe think about, hey, let's, I need to get some more reps under my belt. Like yeah, let's try to get as many reps as possible because very often that can help with, you know, I'm not saying not premature ejaculation, I don't know what is going on, but just like not lasting for very long, that can definitely help. And then the second, the biggest and most important thing because she's really explicitly said this here. I appreciate that she's saying she'll often finish herself off. So it's great. I'm so glad that she's having an orgasm. Like that's really good. But I totally understand. She's. I think she's saying I don't want to have to be the one giving myself the orgasm afterwards all the time. That's not to say that that can never happen. Like, hey, sometimes, sometimes that happens. But I think it's, it's like she's got to think about, yeah, how does she want to have an orgasm? How does she want him to contribute to her having an orgasm? Does she want it to be during intercourse? Does she want it to be before intercourse? And then you start working backwards. Okay, so what do we need to do if, if he right now is not lasting very long and she would love say 10 minutes of like focused stimulation, whether that's manual, oral or intercourse or a combination of those. Then okay, let's work backwards. You know. Okay, you're typically right now you're lasting about a minute. So let's get like nine minutes of something else happening first. Like it's really simple, just like kind of going backwards. Step by step. Okay, what do we need in order to get me what I need? And I know that can feel a little awkward at first cuz you're, we're, we're so hardwired. Just be like, okay, yeah, intercourse, that's, that's the thing that we do. But set the intercourse aside and just focus on like getting her to have an orgasm before you do, regardless of the method. And that will ultimately take so much pressure off of him. So it's like the more practice, the more reps is going to be helpful and the more that he can take all the pressure off of his penis, that is going to give him so much more confidence. And often once we have forgotten about like, oh, okay, great, I already gave her an orgasm. I don't have the pressure on me. All of a sudden, most, many, many men will start lasting much longer. And though they will want it way more, they will want sex more, they will want to engage in emotional intimacy more because they feel confident that regardless whether this leads to sex or not, I know that I can fulfill my partner and I can have an orgasm too. And I don't have to feel embarrassed afterwards.
- [24:35]
Vanessa Marin
Okay, so in the first episode that we did about this, we were going through, we have our five keys to everyday intimacy. It's our main framework, it's what our deeper membership is all like built around. And so we were talking about the specific key that we think each of the couples like needs to focus on first. So with this couple, I think it's key four, which is pleasure. Yes, and exactly what you said. I think if they're able to prioritize her pleasure, like not only are we gonna make sure that she's enjoying herself more, but we're also gonna help him build the confidence while he tackles his performance issues.
- [25:12]
Xander Marin
He will also enjoy himself more. I think it's easy to be like, oh well, he's, he's already have an orgasm one way or the other. But having a shameful, like performance related orgasm, I will say from experience, it's not fun. Like, yeah, it's a kind of a burst of pleasure, but it's tinged with shame and embarrassment. And that is not how you want to be having orgasm. So even if you still don't last for very long, being able to have an orgasm knowing like, hey, I just get to have at it and enjoy my orgasm, like he is going to be enjoying himself so much more too.
- [25:47]
Vanessa Marin
Okay, so a couple of resources to point out here. We do have several different pillow talks podcast episodes about performance issues we don't know exactly from, you know the question exactly what he's dealing with. But you can search for performance issues, pillow talks, performance issues. And there are a number of different like episodes with free resources and tools to help you figure out how to overcome those. We also have our ultimate four play guides which we will link in the show notes. These really walk you through exactly what to do to please each other with your hands and mouth. They're so much fun to explore together. So confidence building.
- [26:25]
Xander Marin
Yeah. This will, this will give him all the tools he needs to bring her to orgasm or bring her very close to orgasm before they move on to intercourse.
- [26:34]
Vanessa Marin
And those ultimate foreplay guides are available as part of Deeper our couples all access membership. You get access to all of our guides resources, tools on demand whenever you want. And we'll also lead you through the five keys. So for them I would start with pleasure and then I would go into emotional connection because there's some ways to like, you know, keep that spark alive between the two of them, keep that connection going. And then I would go into exploration.
- [27:04]
Xander Marin
Yeah, I have a feeling once they get the pleasure thing taken care of, those other two are going to fall into place and there's going to be a minimal amount of work in each one. I think both of those, those things are just going to start happening naturally.
- [27:19]
Vanessa Marin
So we just had a house guest stay over and she asked us what on earth is on this bed. These sheets are so amazing. And we were very proud to be able to say that they are Cozy Earth sheets. Cozy Earth makes luxuriously soft temperature regul sleep essentials because when you sleep well, you live well. Their bamboo sheet sets are seriously the softest, coolest, most luxurious sheets you will ever own. People are always asking us about them. We also really love the linen blend sheets as well. Those are also fantastic. They also make clothing, these incredible bamboo pajamas. So lightweight, but so cozy. They make hoodies, pants, shirts, bath towels too, like so many great products.
- [28:06]
Xander Marin
Yeah. We actually just went up to the snow this weekend and I brought my Cozy Earth sweats and sweater combo and I was rocking that thing after skiing every day. So. Good.
- [28:20]
Vanessa Marin
And if you're not sure you're gonna love them, you can take 100 nights to decide with their sleep trial. And every Cozy Earth bedding product comes with a 10 year warranty. Prioritize your sleep. Visit cozyearth.com and use our exclusive code Pillow Talks for 40% off. Best selling sheets, towels, pajamas and more. That's Code Pillow talks for 40% off. And if you get a post purchase survey, let them know you heard about Cozy Earth right here. Sleep better with Cozy Earth. Okay, let's get into our second story. She initially wrote in. I'm a 34 year old mother in a long term relationship with my high school sweetheart. I've embarrassingly never had an orgasm. Not on my own or with a partner. My current partner has been my only penetrative sexual partner. My lack of an O isn't from his lack of trying. He'd spend all day trying if he could, but I find that I get embarrassed or just feel uncomfortable with the attention on me. He'd have sex daily, whereas me, I'm honestly fine without it most of the time. Maybe like once a month. But while we're doing it, I always find myself thinking, this is fun. I don't know why we don't do this.
- [29:31]
Xander Marin
More classic.
- [29:32]
Vanessa Marin
Uh huh. Any regular listener of the podcast knows what that means. Having a five year old, of course, hasn't helped us in the world of being able to have more sex, but we try and figure something out. I'd love to learn how to have an O. I think that if I could do that, maybe I would be more open to more sex. But as of now, it sometimes just feels like another chore I need to get done. Okay, so we sent her back the same questions we sent the first woman. And here's the voice note that she sent us back.
- [30:00]
Couple 2
It's a little weird for me, so I'm just gonna act like I am sending a voice memo to my best friend about this, even though my best friend and I would never talk about.
- [30:09]
Vanessa Marin
This at all ever.
- [30:11]
Couple 2
So I wrote a note to answer all your questions. So if it sounds a little rehearsed because I wrote a note. So yeah, I'm just gonna read it. Okay, so intimacy are in our relationship. I assume you mean non sexual intimacy, because I sent that other email about sexual intimacy. So I'm gonna answer it about that. Non sexual intimacy is good. It could be better. I have a hard time personally initiating intimacy. Growing up, my parents were not. I didn't grow up in a very like touchy house. And the only time I ever saw my parents show each other intimacy was if they had gotten into like a fight and my dad was like trying to calm my mom down. So I think maybe I kind of have like some sort of negative connotations with intimacy in that way. We do, however, hold. We hold hands, we cuddle occasionally, hug, kiss throughout the day. Like, you know, he'll come up to me When I'm like cooking dinner and kiss my cheek or whatever and we kiss each other goodbye and good night and all that stuff, it could be better for sure. It's definitely like, you know, you know, I also part of me gets worried that intimacy could lead to sex. And sometimes like I really don't want that. So even at the end of the night if I want to cuddle, I think I have like a fear of like going for it because I don't want him to think like, oh, she's open for sex. Because like at the end of the night I'm usually not. I'm usually tired and drained. So yeah, let's see. Oh, and also that I have a five year old daughter and she needs to be on top of me at all times. And so at the end of the night when she's like asleep and we're together, sometimes I'm just like, I don't want to be touched. And he, I think has a harder time with that. Our average sexual experience is so weird. Lately we have been doing morning sex because I prefer that because after the stress of the day of I work full time, I'm a mom, we have pets, we have, you know, a house to run and everything. And after all that stress throughout the day, at the end of the night I really just like don't. I just want to like turn on a trash TV show and I want to not have sex. So we do morning sex usually on the weekends. It's like our, the best time for it for us. So I guess I don't know how deep to get into it, but it's usually right when we wake up in the morning. We pretty much do no foreplay. And I think you would do foreplay. I think he would happily do foreplay. But I feel very awkward or weird or embarrassed about having the attention on me. I kind of like freeze up I think, I don't know. So it's only usually like a few minutes of some hand stuff to like get it ready and then we just kind of go right in and it's just over when he's done. Yeah, it sounds, I feel like it makes him, him sound bad. Like it's, it's, on him, you know, the, I don't know the typical stereotype, but it's not, I think he would want it more, he would want it different if, if it were up to him. But he respects my discomfort and is understanding and you know, I still enjoy it like while we're having sex, I'm enjoying myself. It's about. So it's just me. It's my issues. I think I'd love to change things. I think mentally I need to change. I need to shift something. Mentally, I need to feel comfortable. We've had talks about how to fix things throughout the years. Like, I said in my initial email that we've been together since high school. And so we've had a lot of arguments and fights about it and attempting to make things better and, you know, trying, like, oh, let's have sex every day for a week, even when, like, I don't want. Like, let's just do that to kind of, like, break the mental barrier I'm kind of facing, I think. And it's never really worked. He's bought sex toys for me for. For Valentine's Day one year. He did, because he thought, like, maybe that would help, but I'm just uncomfortable with that. I think, too. I'm really not sure what my ideal sex life would be because this is kind of all I've known for penetrative sex. Penetrative sex. I did have, like, partners in the past, but we never did anything. We never had penetrative sex. And I never had orgasms with any of them. I think I would love to be confident, confident enough to say what I want or do what I want or just take charge in the moment of what I want to do. But whenever I think of something, I kind of, like, shut myself down and tell myself, no, don't do that, or even knowing what I want at all. Sometimes I have a trouble with that. Like, I don't know what. I don't. I don't know what feels good for me. I don't know what works for me. I don't. I don't know. I'd love to be able to have an orgasm someday, but I think. I think a lot of that has to do with the confidence, the mental confidence.
- [35:27]
Vanessa Marin
Oh, man, I was taking so many notes as I listened to that one.
- [35:31]
Xander Marin
This is a good. This is a good one.
- [35:32]
Vanessa Marin
And I think this is a really great one.
- [35:34]
Xander Marin
This is such a common situation.
- [35:36]
Vanessa Marin
Okay, first of all, I want to loop back to the. This is fun. I don't know why we don't do this more. This is a little something called responsive sex drive. Most people do not know that there are two different sex drive types, and they boil down to where we feel desire first, in our heads or in our bodies. And most people have no clue that responsive desire exists. But about 75 to 80%, 5% of women have it, and it is a classic, classic sign when you are saying in the middle of sex or even at the end of sex, like, this is fun. Why do I never seem to want this? That is a classic sign of responsive desire. So we have a totally free quiz that helps you identify what your sex drive type is, what your partner's type is, and how to work together to have the kind of sex life that's going to work for both of your sex drives. Because if you're like the vast majority of couples, you guys are different types. It just always tends to work out that way. So we will link that. That's totally free. We'll link that in the show notes for you. But it's definitely something that every couple needs to know. Every person needs to know what their sex drive type is. She also mentions another extremely common dynamic that we talk about all the time. We actually coined a term for it. We call it the bristle reaction, which is when you tense up when your partner tries to touch you because you're worried that they're trying to get it to lead. So that was exactly what she described. She's kind of avoiding that intimacy with him because she doesn't want to give him the wrong idea or make him think that it is going to lead to more. But unfortunately, what happens when we do that is it's a really unpleasant reaction to have in the moment, both as the person having it and the person receiving it too. And it's getting in the way of them having that connection. Like if you start pulling away from touch, then you only reinforce the pattern that you and your partner only touch each other when you want to have sex or immediately, like in the lead up to sex or during sex.
- [37:39]
Xander Marin
And then it often leads to worse sex because the partner who finally is allowed to touch goes, oh my God, this is my chance. I've been waiting for this. Let's fucking go. And then often things go a lot quicker or a lot more on their terms because they're thinking, oh my God, at any moment this possibility could disappear. I gotta get it done. Like, we gotta do it.
- [38:03]
Vanessa Marin
So we have a podcast episode specifically about that. It's like what the bristle reaction is and how to stop it from happening. Definitely recommend checking that out because I'll give you a little spoiler alert. What we actually want to do is have more non sexual touch. We want to break that relationship. That touch is supposed to lead to sex or touch always leads to sex.
- [38:24]
Xander Marin
I really do think in this case we're going to talk about the orgasm part. In a moment. But I just want to also kind of tag that where I told, of course, in her situation, she is bristling because the sex that she's having is not particularly enjoyable to her and she's responsive. So she's not thinking about it. So it's like this double whammy of like she's not thinking about it. And even if she does start thinking about it, she doesn't have a particularly positive association. There's not like a carrot it for her in it. Right. And so of course she wants to avoid it. Absolutely. It's worth looking, understanding the bristle reaction and figuring out what you can do to help it. But I am really curious to know if, you know, if we can solve her orgasm problem, how she will feel about non sexual touch in general. Because her perspective might all of a sudden shift when all of a sudden she realizes, oh, orgasms are available to me whenever I want them.
- [39:24]
Vanessa Marin
Okay. She also mentioned feeling touched out. Another super common reaction, A very real thing. Yeah, I just want to tag that. We also have a podcast episode about this. Like, if you're a mom or a primary caretaker and you have a child or another being that is relying on you for survival, that is like clinging to you, touching you, grabbing at you literally on your body all day long, it makes perfect sense to feel touched out. It's like your body is just done with touch. It's filled with touch you cannot take anymore. And that makes it really difficult to transition into being a partner into intimacy again because your body just feels so full and so over it. It's like, I just need more time and space for myself. So that's a great podcast episode to listen to. If you just like feel like, you know, I'm being touched all day long, I can't have another human needing something from my body.
- [40:23]
Xander Marin
And the, the general solution to being touched out is, is not. You cannot force yourself to go from, okay, I've just been touched, touched, touched, touched, touched by my kid or my kids and then immediately into, okay, now it's time to touch my partner. You have to give yourself a break. And you know, of course the. What you do is going to depend on what you really need or how much time is available to you. But even just like shutting yourself in a dark room, depriving yourself of all this extra sensory input, just shut yourself in the, in a closet, as crazy as that sounds, shut yourself in the closet for a minute and just be quiet and alone and just breathe. Like, but. But if you have more time, go For a walk, do something on your own and try to strip out all the extra sensory input and just relax. Focus on, you know, nature or, you know, maybe some meditation, something like that, to just give your body the chance to reset, because it will.
- [41:30]
Vanessa Marin
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- [42:02]
Xander Marin
You know, one thing I am not feeling confident about, though, is the fact that we did just order more good wipes, and I don't know that they will arrive in time for me. I only have a couple left in my bathroom. They're coming on Friday, and I have three more days. I got to really conserve those good wipes because they're real.
- [42:22]
Vanessa Marin
They're really good. Talk about conserving.
- [42:24]
Xander Marin
They are. They are. They're real. They're real. Good for my butt.
- [42:28]
Vanessa Marin
They have amazing scents, but what I love the most is that these are all natural scent. They're made with hydrosols. They're not any artificial fragrances, chemicals, parabens, anything like that. But they come in great scents like rosewater, shea, cocoa, lavender, cedar, and botanical bliss. They are super soft. We know that you will absolutely love checking them out. So if you want to upgrade your restroom ritual, you can grab Good Wipes at Target, Walmart, Kroger, and most local grocery stores. Just head to the toilet paper aisle and look for the bright aqua, rose, and emerald packages. They're also available on Amazon, if you're more of an online shopper. Okay, so let's get to the heart of her question, the orgasm issue. So I get that she's saying, like, her part.
- [43:16]
Xander Marin
She's.
- [43:17]
Vanessa Marin
She's like, it sounds so bad. I wrote, like, my partner is genuinely a really good guy. Like, he would do, you know, foreplay. He would touch me more often if he could. But it sounds like the main issue that's coming up is she's really struggling to allow herself to receive that attention.
- [43:32]
Xander Marin
And I think that she has it a little bit backwards, too. She. When she says, oh, you know, like, I don't. I'm making my partner sound bad, what is underlying that is this assumption that it's his job to know her body. Better than she does, that it's. That it's his job to bring her to orgasm, that she's not a part of that journey. So I think that that is, like, one big misunderstanding, because. Because the reality is, it sounds like he does really want to give her an orgasm. He's doing everything he knows how to do and even more. And, like, he's tried other things. He's trying to get sex toys, you know, unfortunately, he doesn't know what else he can do. He's tried all these things. But the answer to that question is, it's not his responsibility to know your body better than you do. It is your responsibility to get to form a relationship with your body and begin to understand what brings you pleasure and then bring him into that and help him get to know your body, too.
- [44:34]
Vanessa Marin
Yeah. Cause she clearly said in her initial message, like, I've never had an orgasm. And she says also she's really embarrassed about this. So I just want to normalize. This is so common. So many women have never had an orgasm or maybe have just been able to have them on their own, but not with a partner. I was actually in that boat myself for many, many, many years. So I get the embarrassment that comes up. I get the fear of, like, am I broken? Is something wrong with me? Am I the only woman in the world who's going through this? So I just want her to know that you're totally normal. It is okay. Unfortunately, as women, we are just not set up for success in this arena. We get so much, like, sabotaging of us connecting to our bodies and feeling pleasure. But you're totally right. Like, I've coached thousands of women through having their first orgasms. And what I have found over and over and over again is that it is most important for the woman to learn how to orgasm on her own first and then bring her partner in on the process. I know that, like, a lot of women are, like, I just want to skip ahead. I just want to, like, do it with my partner. I don't want to masturbate. I'm in a relationship. Like, I just want to have them with my partner, But I also don't.
- [45:46]
Xander Marin
Want them to focus on me for too long. Not gonna happen like that.
- [45:50]
Vanessa Marin
Yeah. But, like, we really, like, this is our body. It's our experience of pleasure. And even if it feels kind of bothersome and annoying right now, I promise you that the experience of learning how to make yourself orgasm is so empowering, so exciting. Like, it's not something that anybody should miss out On, Yeah.
- [46:12]
Xander Marin
I mean, honestly, it took me a decent amount of time to learn how to bring myself to orgasm when I was, like, 13 years old. Like, it took probably, like, months and months of sort of like. Like, I. I knew what masturbation was. I heard about it. I didn't have a primer on how to do it or exactly, like, what the outcome was. Like, I knew what ejaculation was mostly in regards to pregnancy. So I was like, well, I think that that is supposed to happen, but I'm, like, not entirely sure. But I know, like, you know, I know, like, boys masturbate and, like, it's supposed to feel good. And so playing around and, you know, it took a number of months before, you know. And honestly, I was like, scared to have an orgasm the first time. I didn't know what was going to happen. So I just want to say that that's so normal. The thing is, is that the vast majority of men are going through that process when they are, like, starting to hit puberty. And for most men, it's been so long since that happened, like. Like, that they don't even consider. They forget. Like, you know, it feels like, oh, well, I've just been masturbating forever. Like, I forgot about the fact that it took me so long until, you know, until, like, we were talking about, you know, finishing school and, you know, Vanessa's course on female orgasm and stuff. And I was like, oh, my God. Like, I went through that too. It was just that I went through it at 13, not at, like, 23 or 33.
- [47:32]
Vanessa Marin
Well, and that's because, like, as women, we're socialized to believe that we're not supposed to masturbate. I mean, obviously masturbation is something that, you know, it feels pretty taboo for pretty much everyone, but women in particular. It's like, there's more of a oh, boys will be boys kind of vibe. Whereas women are like, oh, you are not supposed to do that. Like, good girls don't do that. That's gross. That's icky. That's bad. And so we grow up not exploring our own bodies, and then we get into relationships with partners, and it's like, you know, oh, my God, I feel like now I'm having to catch up on this entire, you know, lifetime already that I've missed of being able to explore my own body. So I really want to encourage her to explore her own pleasure first. And I think that could also be a nice way of coming back home into her own skin. We talked about that a Little bit with, like, being touched out of having a bit of time to herself to explore, like, what feels good in my body, what do I enjoy, what do I need to get myself there? So we do have a free guide on this. It's called the Best Way to have youe First Orgas. We will link that in the show notes as well. But that would be a great starting point for her then. At that point, I think the next thing to explore is allowing herself to receive. So she's saying, like, yeah, my partner wants to focus more on my pleasure, but I'm not letting him or I let him do it for a couple seconds just to get it ready, which is not really foreplay. So we have a podcast episode all about how to allow yourself to receive in the bedroom. That was one of our earliest ones. I think it was episode 17. Very early on the days of pillow talks. But there's some great advice in there about getting more comfortable allowing yourself to take up that time and attention.
- [49:14]
Xander Marin
Yeah, I think that. That learning how to receive is so important. And that's actually another thing I think that is a little backwards. And, you know, she. She has something backwards in what she's saying and wondering, like, oh, well, if I could just be more confident, then maybe I could have an orgasm. Then maybe, you know, if I could be more confident in initiating something, then I could know what I want. And it's actually backwards. It's that confidence will come once you know how to orgasm, once you know which things, which techniques, which parts of your body bring you the most pleasure, then it becomes natural to, oh, yeah, I'm going to initiate you doing the thing to me that brings me all of this pleasure. And that's where the confidence is going to come from. Yeah, like, don't push yourself to initiate random things that you don't know are gonna. You don't know if it's gonna work for you or not. Let's figure out exactly what's gonna work for you. And then. Then if you're still finding yourself struggling with, you know, initiating or taking control, then we can talk about that. But I think that will happen so much more naturally when you have that clear, you know, oh, I do this. Then orgasm happens. Like, then it's so much easier to say, hell yeah, give me that.
- [50:28]
Vanessa Marin
Okay. So going back to our five Keys framework, I realized we forgot to go through the keys the first time around. So the five keys are communication, connection, desire, pleasure, and exploration. And we created this framework because we know, like, when you're struggling with Your relationship, it kind of feels like there's just so many things to do. So we wanted to help couples hone in on what, what's the key that's gonna have the biggest benefit for you right away? Where, yes, we can always be working on all five keys, but if we like start with the best bang for your buck, then the other things will fall into place a little bit easier. So for this couple, I think we're actually at the pleasure key again. We're another pleasure key. That's key number four. I think desire would probably be the second one for them to go to.
- [51:19]
Xander Marin
Also connection, because she did talk in the beginning about kind of having, you know, probably the way that she was raised, like feeling like it's hard to, to, to have physical affection with her partner because understandably she associates it with her parents fighting. And so I definitely think there's some work to be done there on, on being like, hey, we can connect physically in a non sexual way and everything is good between us. In fact, everything feels, feels better between us when we do that. So. But yeah, I would definitely focus on let's, let's help you learn how to orgasm first. But definitely you called out a really valuable thing, which is that connection. I think being aware of that connection is the first thing. But then you've got to get really intentional about, okay, I see this pattern now. What am I going to do to consciously break the pattern?
- [52:12]
Vanessa Marin
So to reiterate, I think focusing on the pleasure, then let's get into the desire. And I would, I would start with the best way to have your first orgasm freebie. And then next go into the how to allow yourself to receive in the bedroom podcast episode. But if you're in a similar situation and you're like, I just wanna dive in, I really wanna tackle this orgasm thing. I wanna learn how to have them once and for all. Then we will also link finishing school for you. That is my female orgasm class. Thousands of women have gone through it and had their very first orgasms on their own and with their partners. And it is such a comprehensive course. It like all the different aspects, physical, mental, emotional, the relational, the sensual, like everything is in there. It's such an amazing class.
- [52:59]
Xander Marin
All right, well, that's it for today's episode of Pillow Talks. Thank you so much for listening. Join us again next week. We release new episodes every Thursday.