EPISODE 212: Why You Flinch When Your Partner Touches You (And How To Fix It) "The Bristle Reaction”

Summary

Pillow Talks Episode 212 Summary: "Why You Flinch When Your Partner Touches You (And How To Fix It) – 'The Bristle Reaction'”

Release Date: June 12, 2025

Hosts Vanessa and Xander Marin delve deep into understanding a common yet often unspoken issue in relationships—the "Bristle Reaction." This episode unpacks the nuances behind why individuals might recoil when their partners initiate touch and offers practical solutions to overcome this challenge, fostering healthier and more intimate connections.

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1. Introduction to the Bristle Reaction

Vanessa Marin introduces the concept of the Bristle Reaction using an analogy:

Vanessa (00:00): "It's kind of like an iceberg. On the surface, it seems like it's just this physical reaction that's happening... But beneath the iceberg, down under the water, there's so many dynamics that are playing into it."

This metaphor underscores that the visible physical flinch masks deeper emotional and psychological factors influencing the response to a partner's touch.

2. Understanding the Bristle Reaction

Definition and Origin:

The Bristle Reaction is a term coined by Vanessa and Xander to describe the involuntary recoiling or flinching response when a partner attempts to initiate touch. Xander elaborates:

Xander (01:43): "The bristle reaction is the feeling that you have in your body when your partner comes in to touch you... You can feel yourself bristle whenever your partner comes in to try to make contact with you."

This concept gained significant traction, even prompting a New York Times article to define and discuss its implications.

Community Impact:

Vanessa highlights the emotional relief and solidarity felt by listeners upon learning that the Bristle Reaction is a recognized phenomenon:

Vanessa (02:41): "Just knowing that this is a thing, that it has a name, makes me feel like I'm not alone. It makes me feel like I'm not broken."

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3. Causes of the Bristle Reaction

The episode identifies three primary causes behind the Bristle Reaction:

a. Being Touched in Ways You Don't Like

Case examples from listeners illustrate various discomforts with specific types of touch, such as overly tight grips or unwelcome areas being touched. Xander emphasizes:

Xander (29:16): "A lot of this is, like, you've been touched this way for a long time, and maybe you never really liked it, but now... you bristle because you don't want it."

b. Lack of Non-Sexual Touch

Vanessa explains how infrequent non-sexual touch can create a pressure-coupled association between touch and the expectation of sex:

Vanessa (42:53): "If you're not having much touch outside of the bedroom, touch can create an obligation or pressure to have sex."

c. Indirect Sexual Initiation

The reliance on non-verbal cues to initiate sex can lead to mistrust and heightened vigilance:

Xander (44:26): "If you're letting your partner touch you without clear verbal communication, it's easy to misinterpret their intentions and react defensively."

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4. Gender Dynamics in the Bristle Reaction

Vanessa and Xander explore how societal roles and expectations influence the Bristle Reaction differently across genders. They discuss how women often feel the need to act as gatekeepers in sexual initiation due to socialization, leading to internal conflicts when their boundaries are tested.

Vanessa (47:49): "As women, we are socialized to be the gatekeepers, to put the brakes on... even in a committed relationship, that instinctual reaction can surface."

Xander adds:

Xander (48:14): "There's an idea that men are supposed to be the initiators, leading to a dynamic where women may feel pressured or conflicted about initiating touch or sex."

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5. Personal Stories and Insights

Xander shares his personal experience with the Bristle Reaction, providing a relatable narrative that underscores the complexity of navigating physical intimacy in long-term relationships.

Xander (51:19): "I would get super in my head of like, what am I going to do? This is obviously leading to more."

Reflecting on past interactions, both Vanessa and Xander acknowledge the challenges of miscommunication and the importance of understanding each other's boundaries and needs.

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6. Solutions to Fix the Bristle Reaction

The Marin couple offers actionable strategies to address and overcome the Bristle Reaction:

a. Share Touch Preferences

Encouraging open dialogues about how each partner prefers to be touched can prevent misunderstandings.

Vanessa (57:56): "We have this exercise called the Touch Maps exercise, where you get clear on your favorite places and ways to be touched."

b. Establish Boundaries

Setting clear boundaries around physical contact empowers individuals to protect their comfort zones.

Xander (60:42): "If you don't want to be touched, you don't need to be touched. It's your body, and you get to set boundaries."

c. Create Transition Time

Allowing a brief period of solitude before physical interactions can help reset and reduce the likelihood of a Bristle Reaction.

Vanessa (63:29): "Creating transition time, even if it's just 60 seconds in a quiet dark room, can be beneficial."

d. Initiate Touch More Directly

Shifting to more explicit verbal communication around touch and intimacy can mitigate the pressure and misinterpretation associated with non-verbal cues.

Xander (68:08): "When you're more clear with your initiation, it allows you to let your guard down and understand each other's intentions better."

e. Utilize Structured Rituals

Implementing regular, non-sexual physical interactions, like nightly makeout sessions, can reframe the association between touch and sex.

Xander (66:22): "We turned our makeout sessions into a ritual called 'skin to skin time,' emphasizing connection without the immediate pressure of sex."

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7. Final Thoughts

Vanessa and Xander emphasize the importance of not enduring unwanted touch, highlighting how forcing oneself to tolerate discomfort can exacerbate the Bristle Reaction and harm the relationship.

Xander (72:19): "Whatever you do, do not force yourself to endure your partner's touch. It's going to destroy your relationship and your sex life."

The episode concludes with a call to action for listeners to engage in open conversations about their physical intimacy, leveraging tools like their book Sex Talks to facilitate meaningful dialogues.

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Key Takeaways:

• The Bristle Reaction is a common, yet often unspoken, response to unwanted or misinterpreted touch in relationships.
• Understanding the underlying causes—unwanted touch, lack of non-sexual touch, and indirect sexual initiation—is crucial for addressing the issue.
• Open communication, establishing boundaries, and creating structured intimacy rituals can effectively mitigate the Bristle Reaction.
• Gender dynamics and societal expectations play a significant role in how physical intimacy is navigated within relationships.

By dissecting the complexities of the Bristle Reaction, Vanessa and Xander Marin provide valuable insights and practical solutions, empowering couples to foster deeper connections and more fulfilling intimate lives.

Transcript

[Vanessa Marin]

It's kind of like an iceberg. Like, on the surface, it seems like it's just this physical reaction that's happening. Like my partner's trying to touch me and I'm recoiling from their touch. But beneath the iceberg, down under the water, there's so many dynamics that are playing into it.

[Xander Marin]

Hello and welcome to the Pillow Talks podcast. We're your hosts, Vanessa and Xander Marin. I'm a sex Therapist with over 20.

Years of experience, and I'm just regular dude. We share the ups and downs in our relationship while giving you step by step techniques for improving yours.

Make sure you subscribe for your weekly double date full of totally doable sex tips, practical relationship advice, hilarious and honest stories of what really goes on behind closed bedroom doors, and so much more. It's the sex education you wish you'd had.

[Vanessa Marin]

Today we have something very special for you. We are re airing our. Our episode all about the Bristol Reaction.

[Xander Marin]

Big one.

[Vanessa Marin]

So we recorded this one several years ago and this remains today, like the most popular content we ever created for social media. I think we have one random other reel that like performed better than this, but this was one of the most popular at the time. It was the most popular thing we had ever shared by far. And we still get so much attention.

[Xander Marin]

Between Instagram and TikTok. I think it for sure is the most popular thing. And it was also the most. I mean, it was. I mean, you. This topic literally spawned a New York Times article that like, defined the bristle reaction as a term.

[Vanessa Marin]

So the bristle reaction is the name that we coined for when your partner touches you and you feel your body recoil like you're.

[Xander Marin]

You just you, you bristle.

[Vanessa Marin]

That's really the best way to describe it. And it's kind of like a. An iceberg. Like on the surface, it seems like it's just this physical reaction that's happening. Like my partner's trying to touch me and I'm recoiling from their touch. But beneath the iceberg, down under the water, there's so many dynamics that are playing into it. So we wanted to make a podcast episode to really break down what is this reaction? What is happening? Why is it happening? And we talk about things like how sex gets initiated in your relationship, the level of touch, especially non sexual touch that you guys have in your relationship. The connection that we make between touch and this pressure that it's supposed to lead to sex.

[Xander Marin]

Yeah. The amount of emotional intimacy that you guys have in your relationship.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah, there's so much that goes into this and we've also gotten just incredible feedback from our community saying, like, just knowing that this is a thing, that it has a name, makes me feel like I'm not alone. It makes me feel like I'm not broken, like our relationship isn't doomed, or I'm this, like, horrible person for having this reaction to my partner that I'm, like, presumably supposed to love.

[Xander Marin]

Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of people who experience this have a lot of guilt and shame and think, oh, there's something horribly wrong with me that I'm doing this to the person that I love. I need to fix it. Something is wrong with me and I need to fix this. And unfortunately, you alone can't fix the bristle reaction. This is, it is a relationship issue, is something that you both, like, we need to fix, we need to address together. It's not just like, hey, you need to stop bristling when I tell you touch you. Like, I mean, the only way to fix that on your own is to just like. Is to basically, like, force yourself to receive your partner's touch or to receive physical intimacy from your partner, which is absolutely not good for anybody. We would never recommend that. But yeah, this is absolutely something that both partners have to address together as a team. It is a team issue. It is not a one person problem.

[Vanessa Marin]

So we decided to re air this episode because, like I said, it came out several years ago and we know, like, we have so many new listeners in the Pillar Talks community. If you're pretty new here, hello. We're so excited to have you. So you may have missed that episode or even if you were a regular listener, like, maybe you were on vacation that week or you just forgot to listen or something.

[Xander Marin]

Yeah, this is really foundational, foundational content.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah. We wanted to go back and give people another chance to listen to this episode. And even if you remember listening to it, it actually is so valuable to listen to things again. Like, I go back and I reread books, I re listen to podcast episodes because you hear things in a different way the second time. Like, you might be in a different season of life and you just, like, something strikes you in a different way or you heard a piece that you didn't hear the first time around. It's just very interesting to go back and repeat things. So we hope that this is interesting and useful for you. We know that again, this is just some of the content that's gotten the best response from people and so much interest and intrigue. But I do want to address a.

[Xander Marin]

Conspiracy theory oh, what's the wait? What's the conspiracy theory?

[Vanessa Marin]

So we just started re airing episodes occasionally. Yeah, every once in a while. We've only done two so far, and they were kind of similar episodes of, like, this is really core foundational content. We want to give people, like, a second chance to reread it or to.

[Xander Marin]

Re listen to it, especially the much older stuff.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah. And so. But we were looking on Spotify, and there was a woman who said, this is not a re air. It was about our butt stuff episode. She's like, this is not a re air. I have listened to that original episode, and this one is very similar. They say all the same things, they make all the same jokes. They have all the same reactions. But this is a new episode.

[Xander Marin]

It's not the old episode.

They re recorded it word for word, reaction for reaction. And all I can say to you is, that sounds exhausting. Why would we do that?

[Vanessa Marin]

I totally appreciate people who are regular listeners and who are like, I remember that episode, but I swear we're not. We're not deceiving you. This genuinely is a re air. We didn't re record it, like, word for word, reaction for reaction. It is a re air. But hopefully that clears that up.

[Xander Marin]

Did you. Did you suspect that? Did anyone else suspect that? Hit us up on Instagram and let us know.

[Vanessa Marin]

That really cracked me up. All right, but without further ado, let's get into the bristle reaction. So I have a friend who's a big name in the wellness space who is telling me all about the power of silk pillowcases. And I have to admit, I was a little bit doubtful at first. I'm like, a pillowcase. Like, how is that that important?

[Xander Marin]

I mean, I think you probably hear it's just like, oh, silk sheets. And you're just thinking about, like, sliding all around on the sheets and, like, who wants that?

[Vanessa Marin]

But then Blissey reached out to us to inquire about being a sponsor on the podcast. So we had them send us some pillowcases, and it took, like, a couple of nights for me to realize, wait a minute, they're onto something here.

[Xander Marin]

Yeah, it was, like, two nights. And I was like, I will never say anything negative about silk again. I love it.

[Vanessa Marin]

Well, I used it first, and then I was like, whoa. Like, my skin feels better. My hair's, like, not feeling anywhere near as frizzy, feeling, like, softer and warmy, and I've got, like, some frizzy hair. But I started saying something, and then you're like, well, I want to try it. Then I was like, damn it. Now I have to give him one of the other pillowcases. And then you started trying it and you loved it too.

[Xander Marin]

Oh, just this. Like such a luxury.

[Vanessa Marin]

Yeah, it's pretty crazy. But silk pillowcases actually make a really big difference. They're clinically proven to not clog pores. Unlike cotton, the silk fibers are naturally hydrating, so it keeps your skin moisturized all night. It's antibacterial hypoallergenic. It's also naturally cooling and breathable. It feels like, very cool to sleep on. And I'm a hot sleeper, so that feels super nice for me. And Blissey comes in over 70 colors, which is pretty wild. It was voted the most loved gift of 2024, and there have been over 3 million sold. Because you're a listener, Blissey is offering a 60 risk free plus an additional 30% off when you [e-mail] PillowPod that's B L-I S S-Y.com Pillow Pod and use code pillow pod to get an additional 30% off your skin and hair will thank you. I have a confession to make. I have been super into skincare for a very long time, but for a very long time, I really neglected my neck. I was so focused on, you know, getting all the creams and serums and lotions on my face, but I really just forgot about the neck, which is.

[Xander Marin]

Kind of a bummer.

[Vanessa Marin]

Cause your neck is definitely an area where you start to see aging coming on. So I was very excited when Gopure reached out to us to inquire about being a sponsor for their tighten and lift neck cream. So they sent us the cream in the mail. I have been using it for over a month now, and I'm really enjoying it. My skin is just feeling a lot softer. It, like, feels really hydrated. I'm using it all the way down onto my chest too, which I think is another area that most of us just totally ignore. I love how you're, like, nodding along as if you know all about this, but you should be using some neck cream too.

[Xander Marin]

All right, hook me up.

[Vanessa Marin]

So Gopure created their revolutionary tighten and lift neck cream with clinically proven active ingredients designed to visibly firm, smooth, and rejuvenate the delicate skin on your neck and chest in as little as four to eight weeks. Because the skin on your neck is actually thinner, more delicate, and less oily than the skin on your face. So it needs a little bit of extra love. Gopure's firming Complex targets the unique concerns of the neck while nourishing and strengthening your skin for a more lifted, youthful look so you can feel feel confident showing off a little more skin this summer. And for a limited time, Our listeners get 25% off GoPure with Code Pillow at checkout. Get the summer glow up you deserve with Gopure. I also want to mention, because this.

[Xander Marin]

Is very important for me, their products.

[Vanessa Marin]

Are cruelty free, paraben free and sulfate free. So you are not compromising, not using any harsh chemicals, anything like that. There have been over a million jars sold. This beauty secret is no longer a secret. For a limited time, our listeners get 25% off GoPure with Code Pillow at checkout. Just head to gopurebeauty.com, use code PILLOW and you're all set. And after you buy, do us a favor. When they ask where you heard about Gopure, tell them that it was from Pillow Talks.

[Xander Marin]

Hey, babe. How does it feel to be viral?

It feels incredible. I've never. I've never felt so good to have a virus.

Actually.

I should have been like, it feels so sick.

You really missed your chance.

I did, but it feels so super sick.

Sick.

Yeah. So sick. Been dreaming of this sickness, the viral sickness.

Too bad you actually didn't go viral. I went viral.

I did not go viral without you at all.

Sadly, I'm flying, flying high on my own. We went viral a couple of weeks ago. We had a TikTok that we made and we have a TikTok account. We don't. We have never talked about our TikTok account here on the podcast, but we are today. Here's a secret. Xander and I don't have TikTok on our phones. Like, neither one of us has TikTok. We're a little bit scared of TikTok, the privacy concerns, but our team has it, so they help post all of our TikToks.

We record videos. I do. I recently discovered that I could log into TikTok on my laptop.

So I still refuse.

I'm in there dropping a comment, dropping a comment every now and then.

No, I'm a little bit scared. So we have a TikTok account. We have not had very much success with it because TikTok is very conservative. They've pulled a lot of our content down. They do not like it when you say any sort of sexual related words. So we've had to try all the tricky things of, like now instead of S E instead of sex, like S E X, it's dollar sign ex. You know Stuff like that. Or segs S e G G S e X. It's like we all know what we're talking about, but TikTok won't let us. So we've had very, very slow growth on TikTok because they just keep pulling our content and telling us our account is suspended. But we keep trying and we finally did it. We had a TikTok that went viral at this point that we are recording it. It has 7.7 million views, which is bananas and brought a whole bunch of new people into our community. And this particular TikTok was about the bristle reaction.

This particular TikTok was also Vanessa's very first foray into the realm of get Ready with me videos.

Get Ready with me. Yeah, it was pretty fun actually. I'm like, well, I already have to wash my face and put on my sk care, so might as well do some work.

I know you.

Same time.

You love a good multitask.

It was a good multitask. So let's play this TikTok for you so you can see what it's all about. Get ready with me while I talk.

[Vanessa Marin]

About why my husband and I make.

[Xander Marin]

Out every single night. Hey there. I'm Vanessa Marin. I'm a licensed psychotherapist specializing in sex. So here's how it usually goes in long term relationships. When you first start dating each other, it's like you can't keep your hands off each other, right? You're always touching, always kissing. But the pattern for most people is that once they get into a long term relationship, they really stop touching and kissing so much. And eventually it gets to the point where the only time that you're like really kissing each other is when you're trying to initiate sex. But what happens for a lot of people, especially if you're the lower sex drive partner in the relationship, is that you start becoming avoidant of any sort of touch or kissing. Like if you're not wildly in the mood, you don't want your partner to kiss you and think that it's going to lead to more. Right? But this only further intensifies that connection that kissing has to or is supposed to lead to sex. And this can even lead to what I call the bristle reaction, which is when you become so hyper vigilant to your partner's touch or kisses that you actually can feel yourself bristle whenever your partner comes in to try to make contact with you. So the intent behind our nightly makeout sessions is to actually break the connection between making out and sex. We wanted to give ourselves lots of experiences where we were making out and it wasn't leading to sex. So our rule is that we have to make out every single night and there has to be some tongue contact. So if we're really exhausted, it can be very fast. It doesn't need to take much time or much energy, but there has to be some contact of the tongues. Most nights though, we prefer to stretch the makeout session out to just be like a minute or two. This nightly routine has taken the pressure off of us to have to have sex if we start making out. And it's really allowed us to enjoy making out just for the sake of making out. So the TikTok was really supposed to be all about this makeout thing, but people really latched onto the Bristle Reaction in particular. I just kind of mentioned it in there and there were so many comments from people saying, wait a minute, hold on a second. Like this is exactly what's happening to me. Nobody's ever talked about this before. What is this all about? So I made a whole bunch of like follow up TikToks going into more depth about it. But this idea really, really took off and we ended up getting so many calls from different media publications like big ones like Newsweek, Popsugar, Scary Mommy, like all kinds of places wanted to interview us and feature the TikTok. I think at this point probably there's been like 10 to 15 different news articles written exactly like about the Bristle Reaction and about this TikTok, which is just wild. We've never gotten this level of attention before about like one particular concept that we've created.

Yeah, I mean like we get DMS from people like calling out random places where they're hearing about the TikTok. Like we got one the other day that was like, oh, like my. My partner was driving through rural Australia and listening to their favorite radio station and like the host were talking about your makeout TikTok. And then like another one of like, you know, the. A big like sex and relationship podcast in the UK is talking about it. So it's just, it's really cool that, you know, all over the place there have been some, some pretty hilarious headlines written about it too. Definitely a lot of people misunderstanding maybe a bit of the intent of it. Like, sex therapist has one crazy rule that her husband has to follow. I'm like, whoa, where did you.

Strict rule. Yeah, one STR rules then.

Yeah, like, like somehow, somehow like it's being taken out on me. I don't know where that came from. It one is not a strict rule.

Those are the places that, like, didn't bother to interview us. They just like popped up an article and then.

No, I mean, yeah, I mean, I think you, you know, you've hit a nerve when there's just like a stream of weird headlines coming out about something. It's like, yeah, people, like, people just want to get that article out. They like, have no interest in even trying to and get a quote. They're like, no, we just got to, got to get this out there.

Yep. So we decided we had to make a podcast episode specifically about the Bristle Reaction. We want to talk about it, what it is, why it happens, and of course, most importantly, how to fix it.

Yeah, because unfortunately, it's hard to, you know, hard to do that justice, you know, in a short form video on TikTok. As much as, you know, there are literally thousands of comments on there being like, how do I fix the Bristle Reaction? Nope. We can talk about it like two minutes at a time, but, you know, it's more than a two minute issue.

Yes. Okay, so let's talk about what the Bristle Reaction is. So I mentioned it a bit in the TikTok, but the bristle Reaction is the feeling that you have in your body when your partner comes in to touch you. Whether it's an actual just touch, a hug, maybe a kiss, that you feel your body bristle up in reaction. Like you don't want to be touched in that moment.

Like a big, like extreme 10 tensing.

Yeah, it feels good. Feels tense. It's kind of similar to if you've ever had a stranger, like, get a little too close to you. Like they kind of invade your personal space. You can feel yourself getting tense in that same way. It's like, ooh, like, no, stay away from me kind of feeling. But this is obviously with your partner, presumably somebody that you love and trust and at least at some point in your relationship, have really enjoyed touching you. So it can be this very confusing reaction, like, how do I love my partner so much? I trust that they're, you know, not some creepy stranger invading my personal space, but yet I'm reacting so strongly to even some very basic touch in the moment. So a lot of people will say, you know, yeah, even if my partner just like grazes my back or puts their hand on my shoulder, like, I can feel myself really tense up. We polled our Instagram audience and 84% of people said that they have experienced the personal reaction.

Pretty universal.

I mean, That's a lot. 84%. That's pretty wild.

Yeah, I mean, I. I've experienced it, and I'll talk about that later.

Yeah. So I came up with the concept of the Bristle Reaction, and I decided that I really wanted to have a specific name for it because it is so common. I've talked about it with so many clients. Whenever we talk about it on Instagram, people really resonate with it. And I think that there's a big power in naming things. Like the fact that it's actually called the Bristle Reaction. Like, it makes it feel more serious, more legit in a certain way, versus.

Like, the thing that happens when they touch you and it doesn't feel good.

Yeah, exactly. So I wanted it to have a certain name. I think there is that. The power in naming things. There's this feeling of, like, not feeling alone in it. Like, oh, wow, enough people experience this too, that it actually has a name to it. I'm not just this one lone weirdo that it's happening to. So for me, the word bristle felt like it just perfectly encapsulated it. I was thinking from a moment about calling it, like, the porcupine effect or something like that. Like, I was trying to think of other things that have bristles or that kind of get their hackles up, but I settled on the Bristle Reaction, and I like it.

Yeah, we. I mean, actually, Vanessa and I, on a related tangent, we. We say sometimes we talk about our getting our hackles up, but we. We refer to that in a different way. It's like if we are a little easy to anger or annoyance.

Yeah. If we're getting annoyed with each other. Hackles are actually. I don't know, like, the tech. It's like the scruff on your dog's. On a dog's back. Like, when dogs are uncomfortable or they're getting ready to fight, or they're just trying to, like, get another dog to back down. Like, the little fur on their backs will go up straight, and that's, like, body language that they're showing. Like, back off. So it could be the hackle. The hackle effect. Yeah, the hackle reaction reactyl. Hackle reactles. The porcupine effect is pretty cute. I liked that, too.

Could be a little too cute.

Yeah, it was a little too cute. And also, Emily Nagoski, in her book Come as yous Are, which is such a great book, she has this whole metaphor that she uses called the sleepy hedgehog. It was kind of like a way to describe feelings, and I was like, this feels A little too similar to, like, I don't want to take the porcupine and she's got the hedgehog, so.

Well, yeah, I mean, yeah, a similar thing, but very different concepts. So, yeah, that could be. That can get confusing pretty quick.

Yeah. Her concept is all about, like, ways for us to navigate difficult. Navigate. Navigate. Where did I get navig. Navigate difficult emotions. So, yeah, totally different concepts, but I went with the bristle reaction. I like it. People seem to like that name. Like, we know you just say the word bristle and you have, like, a felt sense of it. It's a. What is that? Onomatopoeia. Is that a thing?

Yeah, onomatopoeia is a thing. I would not say that this is an onomatopoeia. Onomatopoeia is like, boom.

Oh, yeah, right.

The sound. The sound of the word describe, like.

Yeah.

Is in a way, descriptive of what it is. Unless you're like, bristle.

That's really weird. No, you just. You hear that word and you have a felt sense of, like, what it feels like to bristle in your body. So it is. I would say it's kind of like a cousin to being touched out. So if you've never heard us talk about being touched out, this is not a term that I came up with. I actually don't know who came up. Up with this, but it's this experience that primary caretakers have when they've had, like, kids holding on to them all day. Or it could be from super clingy pets or an adult that you're, you know, caretaking. But if you've had just physical touch all day long, this feeling that you get where it's like your body is just done being touched and so you're burnout. Yeah. You're hypersensitive to any touch. It's like, I just need my body to be my own, to belong to myself for a second. So it kind of like they can go hand in hand. If you're touched out and, like, your partner's maybe coming home at the end of the day, you've been touched out all day long and they're trying to touch you, like, you'll very quickly and easily go into the bristle reaction because you're like, get away from me, buddy. Like, I don't want anybody needing anything else from my body right now.

Yeah, I mean, I. I imagine that, yeah, there could be. There's definitely could be some overlap between bristle reaction and being touched out, where it's, like, not immediately clear which it Is, however, you can absolutely have the bristle reaction when being touched out is like, not. Not in the picture.

Yeah. So you could have been, like, home alone all day, or you're at your job, nobody's touching you there.

Yeah. You don't have kids.

Yeah. And you come. You know, you and your partner rejoin together at some point in the day, and they touch you. You haven't been touched all day, but you'll still bristle. So they are different. But I. I think cousins is like, oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Absolutely. You know, right now, touched out. You know, the word touched out is. Is having a moment, so to speak. Like. Yeah, it is. You know, all over social media. It's one of those things where I think the vast majority of people know what it means. They hear that word. They know exactly what you're talking about. Kind of like, you know, mental load is starting to be talked about a lot. The bristle reaction, I think, wasn't quite talked about that much. And then, boom, 7.7 million views later. I think we are doing our part and trying to. To, you know, get people aware of, you know, this is a thing. This is a real thing with real serious consequences.

It is also cousin to the ick. So a lot of the reporters who've been calling me to do interviews have been asking about the ick. So if you've never heard that. Yeah, if you've never heard that term before. Xander hadn't.

I only did. I think we were watching the Bachelor this. This last season and not the greatest season of the Bachelor, but. Yeah, the. The. The girls were talking about the ick, and I was like. Like, I mean, it was one of those things. It was kind of a onomatopoeia in a way, where it was like. I didn't need anyone to explain to me what it was. They were just kind of in context. I could figure it out. Oh, okay. They're just naming that sort of feeling when you are, you know, hanging out with someone or starting to date someone, and then it's just like, oh, this just doesn't feel right.

Okay. Yeah. So the ick is like. It's more of a dating term. So it's when you discover something about that person that just really turns you off. It makes you feel icky. You're no longer attracted to them. For a lot of people, it's like, oh, I got the ick. And that was it. Like, no, we're not going on any more dates. I left the date in that moment. That kind of thing. Yeah.

Because I think Very often, like when you're dating someone. Yeah, you. You learn something new about someone and like, maybe one or two things happen. If, if you're not into the thing that you find out, you might be like, huh, I don't really agree with that. I don't really like that. But you're able to kind of set it aside and move on. Like, it doesn't impact everything else you know about that person or you hear, you learn one thing, you see one thing, they do one thing, and then all of a sudden it, like your entire experience has been colored by that. And all of a sudden you're just like, oh, God. Like, it just doesn't feel good.

So the ick happens more with dating, whereas the bristle reaction happens more in long term relationships.

But I can, I can see where people could kind of get this confused because the bristle reaction, if it's something that keeps happening to you, like you're having a visceral reaction, you're having what feels like an ick reaction essentially to someone that you really love. And so I could, I could see how this could be a confusing experience. You're like, God, it, it kind of feels like that thing where I'm just like this person that I, I think I love. I. I really think I love them inside. But then like, they're doing something and I'm just like feeling super repulsed by it. And that could be a confusing experience. Like, well, what does this mean? Are we not right? Is something wrong? Like, am I just grossed out by that? Them entirely? So I think it's, you know, hopefully if you're hearing this and you've had this experience, hopefully, it can be powerful to know these are two very different things. Like the. Because, because with the bristle reaction, it could be like, yeah, right now doesn't feel good. But then like an hour later, you know, you could be like, having a conversation with them and be like, totally happy and in love and into them. So it's. Yeah, it's not like, oh, you're just completely unattracted to them entirely.

And also the ick can happen with zero touch too. Like, it doesn't have to. Anything to do. So I would say, like, the IC is a distant second cousin to the bristle reaction. Okay, so what the heck causes the bristle reaction? How do we get to this place where we love this person so much and yet we are recoiling from even the most simple touch? So there are three main causes of the bristle reaction. The first one is being touched in ways you don't like. So we turned to Instagram. We asked our audience, is there a certain kind of touch that evokes this reaction for you?

And I'm gonna. Is it fair for me to assume that this is being touched in ways you don't like? Especially, like, over long periods of time? Like. Because I think that a lot of this is, like, after years and years of kind of being like, I don't. I don't really love it when they do that, but I'm not really gonna say anything. It's sort of like, this is kind of what happens in the long term of, like, kind of setting aside your discomfort with something, and then all of a sudden you're like, oh, God, don't. Can't have it.

I think it can be both. For most people, it's definitely like. Like, you know, you've been touched this way for a long time, and maybe you never really liked it, but now at this point, you're like, oh, my God, don't touch me. Like that. But it could also just be in the moment, your partner does something that maybe they don't normally do, and it's just this really gross. Like, oh, God, no. I don't like that.

All right, so here are a couple answers that people gave. Gripping me too tightly. Boob honk or random boob grab? I can't scream. Get the fuck out fast enough.

Oh, yeah. Not a fan of the boob hump.

Whenever he tries to pull me in to make out or runs his hands over my body, too. Lingering. I'm guessing, like, lingering touch.

Yeah, you can, like, we're gonna talk about this in a minute, but when your partner just, like, I don't. I don't know how to describe it. Like, you. You can know when there's, like, a little bit of, like, oh, I'm just touching you to say hello, versus, like, a. I'm lingering, trying to convey that I want something more from this touch. It's like, I can identify. This is really interesting, actually. Like, I can with you the second that your touch starts to turn into wanting something more. And we will get into this dynamic because this is a big part of it, but I'm so hyper aware of that. Wait, I do have a question for you, though. Just going back to one of the earlier answers that you read. Yeah, the random boob grab. Like, does it genuinely. I know that, like, you like boobs because you don't have boobs, and they're, like, novel and exciting, and boobs are fun. I will give you that. For sure. So, okay, I do not like the random boob grab. I do not like the boob honk. And you're very respectful about those boundaries. But if. If I just said, like, babe, you can. You have free reign, touch my boobs whenever you want. It's never gonna bother me. Like, would you just be grabbing them all day?

See, now that's a really good question, because I could see a world in which I'm like, hell, yeah. Game on, baby. And then, like, after doing it, like, five times, I'm like, okay, this is kind of boring. I think that maybe there's some power in the, Like, I know. I know that I shouldn't really be doing it that much. And then everybody, I was like, I just can't help myself.

Interesting. So because the boobs feel off limits, then it activates some little.

It's just this little part of me that's like, oh, just gonna grab them.

But if. If you were allowed to, the novelty of it would. Would lose. You'd lose the novelty of it quickly.

There's only one way to find out.

Oh, God. I'm not sacrificing myself to this experiment. All right?

No, but. And I'm saying I don't want to either. I don't want to. All right, let's. Let us. Let's continue on the list. All right. When they're too playful, I need sweet and gentle. Or on the other hand, when he touches me too gently, I get bad shivers. Those are two different responses.

Yeah.

By the way.

So we can see there's a lot of different kinds of touch.

And there's no. And there's no like, one thing, like, oh, because, you know, someone might be like, oh, well, it's just that, oh, you. You shouldn't touch. You know, you shouldn't touch people in this way or that way. And no, it's. It has nothing to do with. With that. It's like, you know, what might have bothered one person is totally going to be game on for another person. Including the boob honk, which we do get DMS about. Some boob owners love a boob honk.

Like two of you.

Yes.

Okay, so here are some other answers. Ass smack. Random nipple flicks when he goes for my earlobe, when he boings my side boob every time I need a legitimate hug. That sounds like the kind of energy you were talking about earlier.

Like a slab.

Yeah, like a little bling. Like, to make it kind of. You have. Do not make that face. You have done that to me for sure. You're super into side boob.

I am. However, I love hugs so much, I can't. Could not think of spoiling a hug by going for side boob when instead of side boob, I can get my arms all the way around you and squeeze you into me. That sounds so much better.

Someone said, coming at me with his tongue already out to make out.

Ew.

Do not like that one. That gives me the icky. And this one was a really interesting response. When they aren't present in their own body, but touch me, like, mindless touching, I think I can. You don't, like, come up to me and just start doing that, but I can definitely tell when there's not, like, any presence behind your touch.

I'm. I'm imagining maybe, like, sitting next to each other on the couch and, like, I'm like. Like, let's say I'm, like, scrolling on Instagram on my phone or something like that. And I just am, like, kind of like. Like reaching out and, like, touching you or something. Like, it kind of almost is like, oh, like something I'm doing subconsciously for my own comfort.

Yeah.

It has nothing to do with caring about you or any kind of connection that I'm wanting to develop between us.

Also, the timing of the touch matters, too. So here were some other responses that we got.

When I'm stressed and trying to accomplish something or get a task off my plate. Right.

Yeah. It's this feeling of, like, I'm already doing stuff and, like, you're interrupting me or my, you know, my tolerance is low.

Yeah. Well, when he does it in front of other people, like, don't grope me in front of my mom.

Oh, that is a big fat no for me, too.

Yeah. Or, I mean, I guess what I'm thinking about is like, you know, this. It gets into manipulative territory, too, where it's like, say, like, you're in a fight about something, or you're kind of in a bit of a disagreement, but, like, you have a date to go to dinner with some friends. And so then it's like, as soon as you're in front of other people, then you're like, oh, I can touch you and pretend that they were a happy couple.

Oh. Oh, God. That gives me the heebie jeebies.

I hate that unexpected touch that feels sexual. And this person says they're a trauma survivor. So I think that is a very, very real thing for anyone that's been through any kind of trauma like that.

Oh, of course. Yeah. The hyper vigilance to touch That's a classic reaction that people have who have.

Endured trauma and then finally pretty much anything if I'm already touched out from our child.

That's what we talked about a little bit earlier.

[Vanessa Marin]

Father's Day is coming up fast and I know what I'm getting for my dad. Some Cozy Earth. I've talked a lot about how I like supreme softness and everything and so does my dad. I must have gotten it from him.

[Xander Marin]

He definitely does. Maybe more than you.

[Vanessa Marin]

He might. My dad's dream is if you ever won the lottery, he's like, I would buy myself a new pair of socks for every day. And my dad loves Cozy Earth. We have already gifted him sheet sets, towels. He just totally raved about them in his towel warmer.

[Xander Marin]

Yeah, he has a towel warmer that sits next to the shower. He puts the Cozy Earth towels in the towel warmer and he is a happy, happy as a clam.

[Vanessa Marin]

Cozy Earth also has incredible clothing too. Like great pajamas, amazing. Like soft T shirts. So if you just want to to give your dad the gift of softness, coziness, luxury all day long, definitely check out Cozy Earth. They have risk free purchasing with a lifetime warranty on all apparel items. Cozy Earth makes comfort that lasts and this Father's Day, he deserves it. Go to cozyearth.com and use code PILLOW for 40% off all men's apparel. For the dads who work hard during their 9 to 5 and deserve the best during their 5 to 9. So the other day I was folding laundry. I had so much laundry to go through, I was getting a little bored and I thought, you know what, why not make this a little bit more fun? So I slipped on my earbuds and I turned on some dipsy and I spiced up my laundry folding session.

[Xander Marin]

How am I only learning about this now?

[Vanessa Marin]

So what was my little secret? Dipsea, if you have not heard about it before, is the female founded app for spicy audiobooks and more. I've been on a like romantasy adventure for the last few years and now like I get to elevate it with Dipsea to turn it like to get the full audio experience right in your ear. Dipsea was created by women for the female gaze. Their app has over a thousand spicy audiobooks, all crafted by a team of professional writers and top tier narrators. And they literally have everything. They've got the rugged cowboys, the Scottish sailors, the God of the underworld. Like you can find anything that you're into and maybe find some surprises, some things that you didn't think that you'd be into. It's all on Dipsea. New chapters are released every week so you will always find something new to enjoy. Right now you can get a 30 day free trial plus 25% off your annual subscription. When you go to dipseastories.com pillow. That's D I P S E A stories.com pillow for 30 free days and 25% off your subscription. That's brand new. That's a brand new offer. So definitely jump that. That's dipsystories.com pillow.

[Xander Marin]

So we also asked our community, what do you usually do when you feel yourself bristle? We were curious to know like in those moments when you're feeling it, like what's your, what's your actual reaction? By far and away the number one response was endure. I just forced myself to endure it. And specifically that word too. And that was pretty terrible to read.

Yeah, that's. Yeah, I feel sad. Feel sad reading that. I mean it's kind of like yeah, nobody, nobody wants to be just enduring. That's.

I mean it's an awful feeling to have in the moment you're feeling your body just recoil and so to force yourself to endure that touch that you're really not wanting in the moment, like that's awful. That's a really, really awful experience to have. And unsurprisingly it is just going to make the bristle reaction feel so much worse because when you're bristling, your body is sending you a message like your body is saying I don't want to be touched. And if you are forcing your body to continue enduring that touch, like your body's message is going to get stronger and stronger like no, I don't want to be touched. Hey, no, I really don't. What the fuck are you doing?

[Vanessa Marin]

I don't want to be touched.

[Xander Marin]

So I don't know why your body is so high pitched but you're just, just going to feel the bristle reaction stronger and more often if you are forcing yourself to endure it. So we will get back to this when we talk about how to fix it.

And I mean eventually it also, you know, might manifest itself in other ways. Like maybe, you know, you raise your voice, you got into an argument or something, you know, because very. When we repress one emotion, eventually it will come out in the form of another emotion. And so you know, it's like if, if you're, if you find yourself doing this, you can very likely identify some other things that might be hap. That you might be doing or might be Happening that you don't feel very good about and there's a good likelihood those things are related and your body is needing to release that in some way or another.

Okay, here are some of the other responses. Feel guilty, tense up and seethe inside.

Oh yeah. So there's another thing that just the, the seething. So yeah, if you are enduring something that you don't want first you're going to start to feel resentful and eventually, you know, you're going to, you know, resentful. It's sort of like in that moment you're like, oh God, this. And then the seething is like even, you know, in a moment where it's not happening, you're just like, you can't stop thinking about it.

Cringe and grit my teeth. Feel annoyed yet obligated. I just stay quiet. It, I pull him away, tell him I'm not in the mood. So this is one rare response of somebody who stopped the touch. And then here was another interesting response. I put my hand on theirs and guide it to where I want it to be. So this is a very rare response. Like the vast majority of people, like we said, were enduring the touch in one way or another. But I liked this idea of like redirecting your partner in that moment.

Yeah, I mean I think that that's great if you, you are, you know, maybe not in full bristle mode because I think that you know, when you're, when you're full on in 100% bristle, you're not, there's not going to be like, oh, just touch me over there. But this could be kind of a, you know, more of a, if it's a minor thing or it's like, okay, yeah, I not happy with you grabbing the boo, but I would be happy with you, you know, grabbing my butt or something. Then it's like, okay, cool, let's, let's redirect. But I think that would be, that would be one that, that you would only want to try if you, you are open to another kind of touch.

Okay, so that was all for the first cause of the bristle reaction. Being touched in ways you don't like. The second cause is not enough. Non sexual touch.

Interesting. So the answer to the bristle reaction is actually more touch.

We will get to that in a moment. But this is what I was talking about in that original TikTok. You know, in long term relationships we do tend to touch each other less and less and only in the lead up to sex or during sex. So we start making this Connection that touch means we're going to have sex or we're supposed to have sex. So if you're not having much touch outside of the bedroom, like, of course when you do get touched and you've made that connection of like, oh, this means my partner wants us to have sex, or with what I was talking about earlier, that lingering touch, you can sense that moment where it turns into, hey, I want something more out of this. Like, you're gonna get bristly in that moment because you weren't wildly in the mood in that moment. Like, if you're turned on, like ready to go, and your partner comes to touch you, you're not gonna bristle.

Yeah. You're like, hell yeah, let's do this. Yeah, I'll, I'll touch you back.

Yeah. So that's number two, not enough non sexual touch. You've made this connection that like touch creates this obligation or this pressure to have sex.

Yeah. And because it's so much easier to say no to, to touch, either verbally or physically by pushing away than it is to. Or that. I think this is like the, the false assumption that we make is like what our brain in a split second says is it's going to be easier to say no to the touch than it is for me to say no to the sex.

Yeah.

And because saying no to sex is, it's, you know, it's your. If you're ranking all these things, I think subconsciously we go, oh, no to sex. That's like a 10 out of 10 in terms of. Terms of awkward, challenging, whatever. I will do anything in order to not have to do that, including completely, you know, cutting off my partner, who I love from touch.

Yeah. So it's like, let me stop it now before it leads into that it feels a little bit easier. Which is. Really overlaps a lot with the third reason for the bristle reaction, which is indirect sexual initiation. So, so if you and your partner are not initiating sex with your words, if you're just initiating it with physical contact, then that's exactly why you can tell when your partner has some sort of ulterior motive behind their touch. The touch that lingers once again.

Or you think they have an ulterior motive. I mean, I think that's the real challenge with, with non verbal or always non verbal sexual initiation is the, that, you know, you can very quickly get to a point where you go, oh yeah, they're for sure trying to initiate sex. I don't want to initiate sex. They're, they're not they're not saying anything. I'm not going to say anything back. I'm going to bristle. I'm going to push them away, whatever it is. But the reality is, you don't know. Like, yeah, it might be that only 50% of the time they're actually trying to initiate sex. They might be actually trying to touch you because they love you. Yeah, but you don't know that.

So all three of these things are very interrelated. But it really leaves you with this experience of feeling on guard all the time. It's like your antenna are always up. Like, are they trying to initiate sex? Do they want something like, what's going on? I gotta shut it down as quickly as possible. And so it just creates this tension that's always in the body and very quick to come out in those moments. We also wanted to explore some of the gender dynamics that can come up around the bristle reaction reaction. So to be clear, the bristle reaction, it does not discriminate. It can come up in any relationship of couples of any gender, any orientation. But we wanted to explore how this comes up in male, female relationships. So we asked our Instagram audience, if you're a woman in a relationship with a man, do you think you have the bristle reaction more often than your partner does? And if so, why do you think that's the case? So most respondents said that they felt like the woman does have the bristle reaction more often. One woman wrote, primary caretaker problems, like, I'm touched out due to kids. Another woman wrote, yes, because everyone needs me all the time, even if he's sitting right there. Yes, I initiated much less often. So he took any openness to touch as a good sign. This ties back into the initiation issues. If you're not initiating sex directly, then if you're, you know, letting your partner touch you, it's like just so easy for them to think, like, oh, let me just, you know, I've got the green light. Let me go for it now.

It's now or never.

Someone else said his love language is touch. And that is my least loved love language. A little tongue twister there. And this was an interesting response. One woman wrote, yes, usually his touch is sexual, but not romantic. I think that's.

Or like, for her. For her, it feels sexual. It doesn't feel romantic.

So when I was reflecting on these gender dynamics, there was one thing that I was thinking about. Like, as women, we are really socialized that our role around sex is to kind of be the gatekeeper. Like, we're supposed to put the brakes on. We're supposed to say no. We're supposed to slow things down, you know, and the role of men is supposed to be. Be to, like, to initiate, to push it further, to keep going, to get what you can.

Yeah, I mean, I think, like, the. The whole stereotype, you know, between men and women when it comes to having sex for the first time is like, the stereotype at least is that, like, the guy's up for it whenever, and it's just like, when he's gonna lose his virginity. When is she gonna say yes? How long will it take before she says yes? What do we need to do in order for her to say yes? Yes. I think there's. Yeah, there's just this idea that it's like. Yeah, it's. It's all on the woman whenever she's ready, because he is implicitly ready.

Yeah. But even beyond, you know, the first time that you're having sex or the first time you're having sex with a new partner, like, still those dynamics are in place. Like, we've talked about this before in the podcast, this idea that men are supposed to be the initiators. And, you know, so I just think that there's this instinctual reaction that so many of us women have. And I'll just speak for myself here, like, there have been times, even when you've initiated sex, really clearly I'm, like, on board with it, but I still feel this, like, little moment of hesitation. And I think that's from just years and years of being socialized. Like, I'm supposed to put the brakes on things. And so even now, now that I'm, like, following the rules, you know, we're married and we're in this committed relationship, like, there's still that reaction that comes up for me sometimes of, like, oh, I'm not supposed to let this go, like, you're my freaking husband. But, like, I still, you know, get this. This feeling, and it's not about my own desires. It's like this really deep, instinctual feeling. So I think that can be part of it. And another thing that can be part of it is I. I think this is an invitation to ask yourself, like, are you saying no in other areas of your relationship? If you feel like you always have this knee jerk, no reaction to sex or to touch, sometimes our bodies can, like, convey a message that we're struggling to convey in other areas. So that could be a whole other episode here. But I just wanted to kind of label that, that it is an invitation to Take a look at am I saying no in other areas of this relationship?

So, yeah, it's kind of like, okay, well, this. This is one area where I feel like I can exert some control. Like, you know, okay, I can. I can push away his hand. I can say no to the touch.

Touch.

I'm allowed to say it here. And so I'm going to kind of go over the top saying it here because I would like to be saying it in other areas. I don't feel comfortable. I think for most people that there's not an explicit connection there. You're not, like, thinking that. What I just said. But that is very often what's coming up is that. That that knee jerk is just. It's because it's like, you know, you're probably seething about other areas of your life that you're like, oh, God, I. I wish I could do something about this. I wish I could say something about this. And so then your body just kind of makes the choice for you, goes, oh, well, I can. I can do something about this. So I will.

And again, to be clear, the bristle reaction can happen to someone of any gender. So actually, why don't you tell us a little bit about your story of how you were little porcupine.

Little. Little porcupine.

Porcupine.

Porcupine. Well, yeah, I mean, God, like the. The Bristol reaction, you know, I. It. It took me many, many years. I mean, really, only very recently have I been able to identify this as the Bristol reaction. But honestly, I started feeling this really early on in my relationship with Vanessa. And I think if I can even think back further, I definitely felt the same thing with the exact same dynamic in another relationship that I was in. In college. And for me, it wasn't so much. Much about, like. Well, I guess, yeah, it was about the sexual initiation and feeling like, no, I don't want to have sex right now. But it. For me, it was a little more than that. It was. It was this combination of, like, I don't know if I can perform around sex. And so I don't want to create the possibility of maybe I'm not up for it or, you know, I guess I. I do end up having to say no later because I don't feel like I can do it. So what would happen with. With Vanessa and me? Usually this would come up, at least initially, this would come up after we had already had sex. So we would have had sex. We would be cuddling in bed, which I love, and then we would start kissing because, you Know when you're cuddling very often you start kissing and you know, Vanessa would be kissing me with more and more tongue or this is my experience because the reality is I was always also given her the tongue too. But like, my experience would be like, I would really just like to cuddle here and then fall asleep soon. And then my experience would be, well, Vanessa's coming in, coming in hot with that tongue. And man, she's like, you know, it feels like the intensity of these kisses are going up. And I would be like, well, God, like she must be wanting to have sex again. And like, I just did it. And despite me, you know, being, being a 22, 23 year old virile man or whatever, like I'm in the middle of the refractory period and I don't like, I don't want to have it again right now. And I would just get super in my head of like, what am I going to do? Like, this is obviously leading to more. Or, you know, I might have even felt this obligation, like, oh, well, I'm supposed to take it to the next level because that's my job. She starts showing me that she's into it, like by giving me the time tongue. And then like I'm supposed to take it the next step, but I don't think I can. And yeah, so I would start to kind of what Vanessa would notice is she would be like, her experience is that I would be, I would kiss her off. I would be kind of, I would be trying to like do a kiss that would result in like our mouths closing. Or maybe I would pivot towards more of just like a hug or a cuddle. And yeah, I never said anything about it. And I mean, I feel horrible. Horrible. I feel really bad about that because, you know, then she would be like, she would make a comment every now and then of like, oh, like you're kissing me off. And then I would try to explain, I would try to convince her how I wasn't. And that was very gaslighty. And I'm sorry.

Thank you. It's interesting to talk about this now too because looking back at those times, like, I, I don't think I was trying to go for an immediate round two. And I definitely didn't have this expectation that like, you had to do it.

Yeah.

And it's iron, so it's like I wasn't even going for the thing that you thought I was going for. And it's also ironic and difficult because then you ended up kind of closing yourself off to post Sex, intimacy, which actually is one of your favorite things.

Oh, yeah, I know.

And which, to be brutally honest, is like, something we don't really do a ton of. Of anymore. Like, we kind of broke that pattern. Like, it. It created a new pattern of, like, oh, this is getting really uncomfortable for us to, like, hang out and continue, like, cuddling and making out and extending the intimacy. And we never really, like, got back on board that train.

Yeah, well, huge opportunity now. I've got some wheels turning in my head. Yeah. I mean, we were just talking about this before we started recording, and. Yeah, I mean, this is one of those things. I, I. If I. If I could go back, I so wish that, you know, knowing what I know now, that I could do this differently. Because. Yeah. I mean, like, if we had just been able to have. If I had just been capable of having a conversation about it of, like, oh, like, I'm. I'm telling the story that you kissing, you know, you kissing me with this tongue means that you are wanting more. You're wanting to go for round two. Like, is that what is actually going on? And I think very likely you would have said no. Like, hey, I just. I love making out with you. It makes me happy, makes me feel connected to you. And that would have felt so good to me because I like making out with you and I like connecting with you as well, so. Because I did not want there to be any possibility of emasculation, of me feeling like she wants something for me, and I can't give it to her because I'm not ready or able to right now. And I don't want there to be any possibility that I might be exposed as being a man who has a refractory period. Because if totally normal and natural, literally every guy has. I mean, God, yeah. I mean, that was. I mean, that's what it's like. That's. That's. That's what it's like being socialized as a man. And I think so many guys would agree with that. Of, like, oh, that I'm sure, like, 99% of men listening to this have been in that situation sometime before of being like, oh, am I supposed to be doing something now that I don't feel up to doing? But I can't. Can't say no. Don't want to say no, because that would be contrary to what I'm supposed to do. Yeah, like, it's tough. It's tough. I, I wish. I wish that we weren't socialized that way. Yeah, I wish I could go Back and do it again.

So let's transition into how to resolve this. What do we do to fix this? If you are listening to this episode and thinking, oh, my God, I do this all the time. So our first piece of advice is to share with your partner the ways that you actually like to be touched. This is such an interesting topic. It's a perfect example of one of those questions or one of those topics that seems so obvious, but so few people have actually had a conversation about it.

Yeah, I mean, I think people would just go, well, this isn't something that we would ever even need to talk about. Kind of like kissing or something like, oh, well, you just know how to. You just kiss. There's a way to kiss and you just kiss. Why would we ever talk about that?

So we have an exercise in our book, Sex Talks, which. Oh, my God, I forgot to mention at the beginning of this episode. Like, the bristle reaction is in sex Talks. Oh, yeah, There's a big description of it. You know, talking about how it comes up, all of that. So go check out Sex Talks. But we also, in Sex Talks, have this exercise called the Touch Maps exercise, where you are really getting clear on, like, your favorite places and ways to be touched. And when we were writing the book, Xander and I did this exercise together and. And even 15 years together of a sex therapist and her regular dude husband who talk about sex all the time, who wrote a freaking book about it. I did not know your top ways of being touched. I was very surprised with your answers. And also brutal honesty. I have forgotten your answers. So we have to revisit this.

I'm so glad you said that, because I was about to be like, huh? So what were my answers? Because I don't remember. So, hey, here's another good piece of advice. I mean, because look, this is the reality is that we all, like, touch in different ways. And even when we share with each other in a pretty formal way how it is, you're gonna forget, because that's not your own lived experience, but you forgot too.

[Vanessa Marin]

It's just like, we just kind of.

[Xander Marin]

No, no, that's what I mean is that, yeah, we both forgot, even though we've done the exercise. So that. That's a. It's just a reminder to people. It's. Don't just do the exercise once. Don't just have, you know, the sex talks once. Like, do them over and over. You gotta have repetition to create those habits.

Okay, so tell me, what is one of your favorite places to be touched and the way you like to be touched there, not your penis. Damn it.

On. I like. I like it when you kiss my neck.

Oh, I also like that quite a bit, But I will do a different one. I like it when you lightly tickle my back. That's not a surprise.

It's not a surprise. Also, the top of your neck gives.

Me shivers just thinking about it. So that's a great exercise to do. Definitely pick up sex talks to help you guys do it and revisit at this. Have this conversation often. So I think if your partner knows the places that you actually like to be touched, like, we all want to give our partners pleasure and make our partners feel good. So if your partner knows your favorite places, like, they're gonna want to go for those. It feels like easy wins.

Especially if you give them positive reinforcement when they do touch the good areas. You know, if you're essentially giving negative reinforcement from doing the boost honk, and then super positive reinforcement for, you know, say, like, the nape of the neck scratch, they're gonna be like, oh, hell yeah. I want to do the thing that I know is going to elicit a good response.

Yes. Okay. Another thing that I want to mention here is you get to have boundaries around your own body. So seeing the word endure over and over and over again when we ask people what they do when they experience the bristle reaction, it really broke our hearts and we just wanted to give that reminder. Like, if you don't want to be touch, you don't need to be touched. Like, just because you're in a relationship with your partner does not give them complete access to your body whenever they want to touch it. Like, it's your body, you get to have some boundaries around it. So especially if you're somebody who has been in intense bristle reaction for a long time, or if you're somebody who has experienced any sort of sexual abuse or boundary violation, like, really allowing yourself to lean into those boundaries can be so helpful in eliminating the bristle reaction. So you can even set up some temporary rules to help you guys get past this. So one idea would be you could have your partner ask permission to touch you. So you could say, okay, I wanna try a little experiment just for the next two weeks or something like that. Like, when before you touch me, can you please ask for my permission? And you will mess up. Your partner's gonna touch you and be, oh, my God, I forgot. But I think just trying something out like that can be really beneficial. Or you could say, for the next two weeks, I'll be The one to initiate touch. But you know, so only when I touch you, then can you touch me back. So just some way to give yourself more control and for you and for your body to recognize. Like I'm protecting my body, I am having boundaries, I'm taking care of my body. So that can be a really beneficial thing to try. If you are experiencing being touched out on top of the bristle reaction, one thing that can also be beneficial is creating a little bit of transition time before your partner touches you. So if you've been, let's say here's a classic example, like you're the stay at home parent, you've been touched all day long. Your partner comes home from their office job, because being a stay at home parent is a job. It's not, not working. But your partner comes home, maybe they need to take the kids for 5, 10 minutes while you just sit in a quiet dark room by yourself.

Lock yourself in the closet.

Even if it's 60 seconds, you need to have a little bit of transition time. So that can be something beneficial too.

And to be clear, when I say lock in the closet, I know that sounds a little cheeky, but actually the reason we say that is because you want to deprive yourself of as many senses as possible during that time. So actually, actually putting yourself in a small dark room is actually quite effective because it cuts off quiet. Yeah. Cuts off. Yeah.

Dark privacy.

Quiet. Private. Yes.

Okay, I want you to talk about this next one because this was your idea when we were chatting about the episode over breakfast this morning.

Yeah. So I think that typically when the bristle reaction is coming up, there is the bristling partner and then there is the other partner who is the one initiating touch or initiating dating, whatever. Usually it's touch. So I think that it can be so powerful to have a conversation that the bristling partner can ask the touching partner.

Touching partner.

Yeah. I don't know what to call it.

Wow.

Can ask the, you know, the, the touching partner. Like, hey, like, what is it like for you, like when. What is going on for you when you are initiating this touch that you know, for right now is causing me to bristle? Um, like what, what is that? Like, I think it can be so valuable to understand what is going on for your partner when they're doing that. Because I think when we don't talk about it, the bristling partner tends to just assume they want sex. They just want sex. They want my body. Like there's nothing else that they want. And I don't Want that. And I think it can be really powerful, you know, to, to hear what is that? Like. Because what you might hear is like, like, hey, I'm. I miss you. I've missed you all day. Like, I'm reaching out to touch you because I feel connected to you when I'm touching you. I feel more emotionally close to you when I'm touching you. Or like, oh, like, I love, I love the way your hair feels. I love to pet your, you know, to, to pet your hair or, or something like that.

Or like. Yeah, like, this is, it's my way of like coming back home to you, like, trying to let go of the stresses of the day and, and reconnect with like, what's important, what I love the most.

Yeah. So I think it can kind of help humanize the experience of like, oh, like this is, you know, you're peeling back the onion. Like, oh, this is what is under the surface. And I think it can, that can help it feel a bit different. That can, that can kind of combat the. Your brain going immediately to, oh, it's just sex. It's just sex.

I mean. Yeah. Going back to our example, like, if you had asked me in the moment, what does it feel like for you to keep, like, making out with me after we've finished? I would have said, you know, oh, it just, I feel connected to you. It feels like we're just extending this moment that we've shared, increasing the intimacy. And you would have heard me, like, you would have not heard me say, like, oh, I'm trying to have sex with you again. You know, it just would have been a really great opportunity to realize that we were actually wanting the same thing.

Yeah.

I mean, that's another powerful part of this conversation is like, you probably, you and your partner, like, you want to feel connected to each other. You want to feel important to each other. You want to feel like there's intimacy in your relationship. So it may not necessarily be that you're on wildly different pages, but because you're not talking about it, it feels like you're on wildly different pages.

Oh, yeah.

Okay. Another way to fix the bristle reaction is to have more non sexual touch throughout the day. This is exactly why we made that video about our little magic makeout sessions. This was our way of creating structure around having more non sexual touch. And for us, it was easier to do something every day. It made it turn into a habit a lot faster rather than like, if we had just set the intention of, like, let's try to touch more throughout the day, we probably would have fallen off, like, you know, after a week or so. But because we made it this rule, we created a special little time. It was going to be every day at the same time of day. Like that. You just made it so much easier to turn into a habit.

And since, since we're talking about this in more detail on the podcast, I want to be clear. When we say we turned it into a rule, we mean rule in the loosest possible sense. It is now it is now.

It is.

It is a ritual that we do. I think people may have heard rule in the TikTok and been like, oh, like Xander's getting in trouble if he doesn't do his makeout. And like that. That's not what it says about. It's something that we both enjoy, we both want to do when we say it's a rule that for us, it's a fun way of, like, it's just a fun way to remind ourselves of like, hey, like, let's have our skin to skin and let's. And let's kiss.

We haven't described that. We call it. We also call it skin to skin time.

Oh, yeah, we didn't describe that.

Yeah, so now that just sounds creepy that you just said skin to skin. It does sound. Okay, so actually we like to.

We like to have our bodies touching each other.

What the rule is is we have skin to skin contact, we're cuddling, and we have the makeout session as part of that. So I just kind of focused on the makeout session in the TikTok. But we, we thought it was funny to call it skin to skin time. So that's kind of like our little inside joke for it. But to be clear, it doesn't have to be making out like touch all throughout the day is going to be more helpful. It doesn't have to just be at night. It doesn't have to be a guideline or a rule rule. Like, if you feel like you could say, like, let's just try to touch each other more often and you'll actually follow through. You can just go ahead and do.

That if you do want to spank each other. If you break the rule, then you can do that.

Oh, saucy. Okay. Another way to resolve the bristle reaction is to initiate sex more directly.

Hey, this is a good one. Whether, yeah. Whether or not you're in the midst of a bristle reaction. And this is a good guideline 100% of the time.

AB so freaking lutely. So when you are more clear with your initiation, then it allows you to let your guard down. You're gonna know like, my partner will initiate with me clearly and directly. I'll know when they're initiating so I don't have to be so on guard for like, are they initiating? Are they trying to initiate now? Are they trying to initiate now?

Initiate. Don't assume. Zoom.

[Vanessa Marin]

If you're loving the podcast and wondering.

[Xander Marin]

Okay, but how do I actually put.

[Vanessa Marin]

This into practice in my relationship?

[Xander Marin]

Well, then you're definitely going to want to check out our membership Deeper. It is, hands down the best and the most affordable way to take your relationship from good to great inside.

[Vanessa Marin]

We guide you through our five keys to everyday communication, connection, desire, pleasure and exploration.

[Xander Marin]

And we give you the expert tools you need to strengthen each one. And on top of that, you'll also get access to our core library of courses and guides like the Ultimate Foreplay Guides, the Ultimate Sex Guide, Art of Initiation, and so so much more.

[Vanessa Marin]

Plus, we drop two brand new date ideas every month. You get daily. Would you rather prompts, monthly live calls with us and fun intimacy challenges to keep your momentum going.

[Xander Marin]

And oh yeah, Vanessa AI is there too your personal on demand sex and relationship coach that is trained on everything, literally everything that we've ever created. So ask her anything and get instant expert backed answers.

[Vanessa Marin]

So if you're ready to communicate better, feel more connected and turn up the heat on your sex life, head on.

[Xander Marin]

Over to VM therapy.com deeper and use code PILLOW for 25% off your first first month just for pillow talks listeners.

And finally talk to your partner about any other dynamics that might be getting in the way of you being open to their touch. So there are so many other reasons why you might be finding yourself bristling. Maybe there are just some relationship issues going on that you guys aren't talking about openly that you haven't addressed. But like, if things aren't in a good place between the two of you, of course you're gonna bristle up when they touch you. So this might be, I think we can sort of look at the bristle reaction as the canary in the coal mine. Oh yeah, I hate that analogy. What's the difference? It's so dark. But like it's your sign that like, hey, hey, something is going on. So if you're feeling your body doing that, like this might be a sign of I really need to talk to my partner about, you know, this thing that's going on. Maybe, maybe it's resentment is coming up. Maybe it's a Even a mental load issue or a division of labor issue. Like, you're feeling like I'm doing everything, and my partner just gets to waltz in here and, you know, sit their ass on the couch and then slap at my boobs. Like, you know, there are a lot of different things that might be coming up for you, that this is your invitation to start talking about them.

Yeah, I think it's. It's a good sign that there's something else going on for you that you. You might be sitting on that it might be time to.

Time to talk about it.

Stand on up, let it out and talk about it.

And finally, I just want to say again, because we saw that word endure so many times, Whatever you do, do not force yourself to endure your partner's touch. It's going to just destroy your relationship, your relationship with your body, your relationship with your sex drive, your sex life. Like, it's just such a terrible thing to put yourself through. So talk to your partner about this. Start to have these open conversations and, hey, pick up sex talks. Because Sex Talks is absolutely going to gently guide you through these incredibly important conversations. Because at the end of the day, we all want physical intimacy. We all want emotional intimacy. We want to feel close to our partners. We want. Want to feel like we're each other's safe places. Right?

Yeah.

And the bristle reaction, it's getting in the way of that. So we need to talk about it so we can create that connection, that intimacy that we're all creating.

All right, well, that's all for today's episode of Pillow Talks. Thank you so much for listening. Join us again next week.