Podcast Summary: “Seeking Safety in Jesus in a Chaotic World”

Pints With Aquinas, Ep. 559
Host: Matt Fradd
Guest: Fr. Mark-Mary Ames, CFR
Date: December 23, 2025

Overview

This episode explores how to find genuine refuge and safety in Jesus amid a chaotic, distracted, and divided modern world. Matt Fradd and Fr. Mark-Mary Ames draw on their ministry and personal experience to discuss struggles with prayer, digital overload, the dangers and possibilities of technology, Church division and unity, authentic spiritual life, and the central role of accepting God’s love in the midst of our weakness. The conversation is candid, practical, philosophical, and deeply compassionate.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. God’s Love Meets Us Here, Not the “Ideal” Us

• Theme: God loves the real us, not the “ideal” self we may wish or pretend to be. Authenticity is the starting point for spiritual growth.
• Notable Quote:
  Matt (08:10): “God doesn’t love the you that you wish you were but aren’t, because the you that you wish you were but aren’t doesn’t exist.”
• Fr. Mark-Mary: Emphasizes giving people permission to pray “as they are,” not heaping on false standards or guilt.

2. Prayer: Its Challenges & Necessity

• Necessity: Daily prayer is indispensable to Christian life; “prayer is essential and not optional.”
  • Fr. Mark-Mary (10:43): “Those who pray are surely saved, those who do not are surely damned.”
• Obstacles: Distraction, perfectionism, and technology make deep prayer harder than ever before.
• Quality vs. Quantity:
  • Imperfect prayer is still valuable if it reflects a sincere effort.
  • Key Distinction: Deliberate, “willed” distraction (e.g., praying during a football game) is quite different from struggling with distractions that are beyond one’s control.

3. Technology: Threat and Tool

• Double-Edged Sword: Tech and social media both foster distraction/addiction and provide opportunities for evangelization and community.
• Spiritual Impact:
  • Fr. Mark-Mary (18:03): “It’s never been harder to pray than it is right now… Technology is making it really hard for you to be present to the Lord.”
  • Modern tech mimics “sci-fi” pleasure/transport machines, creating addictive, shallow comforts.
• Discernment: Religious content creators should be strategic, discerning, and sometimes set boundaries (e.g., declining to use TikTok).

4. Community, Conversion, and the Limits of Online Discipleship

• Online Ministry: Can serve as an entry point but needs to move people toward the sacraments and real-life Christian community.
• Rosary in a Year:
  • Fr. Mark-Mary’s podcast found surprising success, reflecting a deep hunger for genuine prayer resources across generations.

5. Division and Safety in the Church

• Church “Big Tent”:
  • The Church encourages but does not mandate particular devotions (e.g., daily Rosary).
  • Avoid making personal spiritual practices into universal precepts.
• Seeking Safety:
  • The desperate need for “safe spaces” in faith can express both hurt and a need for clear, reliable teaching.
  • Excessive rule-making or group-tribalism (on all “sides”) often comes from a wounded place seeking security.

6. Intimacy with Christ: The True Refuge

• Dynamic, Personal Relationship:
  • The Christian life is fundamentally about a living relationship with God, not simply moral systems or philosophical systems.
  • Matt (57:21): “He is not, to use a human expression, taken his eyes off of me since the moment of my conception… That’s wonderful.”
• Refuge in His Wounds:
  • Christ offers Himself as a hiding place for the weary and burdened (cf. “Come to me… and I will give you rest”).
• Holiness as Acceptance:
  • The journey to holiness is often “a slow turning toward the loving gaze of the Father” (75:38).

7. Formation, Vocation, and Baggage

• Religious Vocations:
  • High interest but declining numbers of candidates with the capacity for the demands of religious life, due in part to formation gaps, digital distraction, and exposure to cultural brokenness.
  • “Everyone has baggage; the goal is to get it down to a carry-on.” (102:15)
• Formation Process:
  • Extended discernment, postulancy, and novitiate periods help ensure new members are ready for the rigors of community life.

8. Confession and Accompaniment

• The Confessional:
  • Fr. Mark-Mary shares his deep joy in offering God’s mercy through confession, highlighting the ongoing need for safe, honest, loving accompaniment, particularly for those struggling with habitual sin.
  • Importance of Both/And:
    • Using tools/filters for managing tech and addiction helps, but real transformation also needs community and personal accompaniment.

9. Practical Spiritual Wisdom

• On Praying the Rosary:
  • Focus on either the words, the mystery, or the presence of God—it’s unrealistic to perfectly focus on all at once.
  • ”If you can’t do something, you’re probably doing okay.” (122:02)
• Detachment for Lay People:
  • Discern what is truly needed, practice contentment, and direct excess toward generosity and the poor.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Scrupulosity and Distraction in Prayer
  Matt (13:14): “A lot of men especially... don’t like engaging things I’m bad at. … So I think one of the reasons we don’t pray is because we feel like we’re not doing it right.”

• Digital Noise Versus Real Prayer Matt (17:30): “We’ve put ourselves in a place where it may be almost impossible to pray.”

• Division in the Church Fr. Mark-Mary (40:38): “I want to be a faithful son of the Church. And it’s so hard… There’s so much division. It, like, tears me up.”

• Safety and Spiritual “Safe Spaces” Fr. Mark-Mary (47:14): “We’re going to set… very clear rules because inconsistency… is super vulnerable. But really what’s happening is we’re just trying to feel safe and we’re not safe.”

• Experiencing Christ as Refuge Matt (55:07): “Anthony Padua… said one of [Christ’s] wounds was to show the church where they can hide from the attacks of the enemy like a dove might hide from the hawk.”

• The Loneliness of Success Fr. Mark-Mary (72:43): “One thing is happening out there, but then there’s another experience… which is kind of unique and needs to be fathered.”

• Formation and Human Weakness Fr. Mark-Mary (102:15): “Everybody has baggage, but you want to have it down to a carry-on.”

• Hope and Encouragement Fr. Mark-Mary (148:02): “If we place our hope in the Lord, like, we never hope in vain. A regular and daily recitation of the most holy rosary is a great remedy for discouragement.”

Important Timestamps

• The “Ideal” Self vs. Authenticity: 08:10–09:04
• Essentials and Struggles of Prayer: 09:56–15:39
• Modern Challenges to Prayer and Technology: 17:11–21:32
• Evangelizing Online, Discernment with Media: 21:32–27:49
• Church Unity, Devotion, and Division: 40:38–45:53
• Seeking Safety and Spiritual “Safe Spaces”: 47:07–55:05
• Jesus as Refuge, Intimacy in Prayer: 55:07–62:46
• Confession and Mercy: 92:22–94:30
• Religious Formation, Discernment, and Baggage: 101:12–109:48
• Franciscan Joy and Fraternity: 119:22–120:58
• Practical Q&A (Books on St. Francis, Detachment, Praying the Rosary, Vocation): 121:00–138:52
• Hope, Rosary, and Final Reflections: 147:39–149:46

Listener Q&A Highlights

• How to Pray the Rosary: Focus on one aspect at a time—the words, the mystery, or presence (121:21–122:45)
• Spiritual Warfare Perspective: Don’t over-sensationalize; just live the normal Christian life (123:00–123:20)
• Serving the Poor in the Modern West: Practice discernment, contentment, and generosity rather than all-or-nothing thinking (123:38–125:24)
• Encouraging Vocations: Foster a son’s prayer life, character, and honest communication (129:38–130:14)
• Favorite Francis Book: “I Know Christ” by Gracian; “Life of St. Francis” by Bonaventure also recommended (137:32–138:52)
• Detachment and Lay Life: The battle with digital media is key; create structures for generosity and simplicity (136:44–137:30)

Final Thoughts

Fr. Mark-Mary and Matt repeat throughout the episode: God welcomes us, with profound gentleness, in our actual weakness and confusion. The call to prayer, honesty, and letting ourselves be loved is more urgent and needed—and more possible—than ever, even when surrounded by chaos. The Rosary, though not a universal obligation, stands as an anchor and a powerful help. And whether online or in-person, accompaniment, mercy, and hope remain indispensable.

“There is a huge amount of reason for hope… Good things are in the world. God has got it, and he's doing a perfect job. We just kind of need to get back to keeping our eyes on Him.”
— Fr. Mark-Mary (148:03)

[For more info about the Franciscan Friars of the Renewal: franciscanfriars.com]

This summary captures the heart of the conversation’s depth, humor, honesty, and warmth, and works as a thorough, timestamped guide for anyone seeking safety in Christ today.