Podcast
Pioneers and Pathfinders
Hosted by Seyfarth Shaw LLP · EN
Pioneers and Pathfinders is Seyfarth’s podcast about people driving change in the legal industry.
Each episode features candid conversation with the people doing the work—lawyers, leaders, founders, teachers, and more. We will hear about their journeys—what they’re building, what they’re seeing, and what others can take from it.
Co-hosted by Kevin Young, a Seyfarth partner and employment litigator who puts new tools and ideas to work in client service, and Zeynep Ersin, Seyfarth’s Chief Innovation & Strategic Design Officer, the podcast offers a front-line view into where the legal industry is headed
Pioneers and Pathfinders was founded by J. Stephen Poor, Chair Emeritus of Seyfarth Shaw, a longtime industry leader who helped pioneer the application of Lean Six Sigma principles to legal service delivery.
28episodes
Episodes
Newest firstAll episodes
Dr. Larry Richard Returns
5d ago00:34:09Tap to summarizeToday's guest, Dr. Larry Richard, practiced as a trial attorney for 10 years before earning a PhD in organizational psychology. Today, he is a leading expert on why lawyers behave the way they do. For over 30 years, Dr. Richard has been researching how lawyers behave and why. He founded LawyerBrain LLC, which advises the leaders of major law firms on the human side of running a practice—things like culture, leadership, change management, resilience, and collaboration. Here are the 7 outlier personality traits that characterize lawyers, according to Dr. Richard's research: • Much higher level of skepticism than the general public • Much higher need for autonomy • Higher level of abstract reasoning—lawyers like using their intellect to solve problems, but also like to argue • Higher level of urgency—lawyers want closure, are impatient • Lower level of empathy—less inclined to take the perspective of others • Lower level of sociability—i.e., not very comfortable with emotional vulnerability, very private, guarded about personal issues • And, the most important one—lawyers are dramatically and pervasively low in resilience (i.e., 20% lower average resilience score than the general public, and 90% of lawyers have a resilience score in the bottom half of the scale! That makes us thin-skinned, insecure, defensive, and easily wounded.) Dr. Richard and his wife, D'Arcy Lyness, PhD, also a psychologist, have just written a book entitled Thin-Skinned: Why Lawyers Are So Low in Resilience, and the New Science That Can Help. It will be published by the American Bar Association in July of 2026. The book explains why lawyers are so consistently low in resilience, and then offers over 50 different scientifically supported self-help practices that can help lawyers build resilience, manage stress, and improve overall well-being. Join us on this episode today to explore why lawyers, according to Dr. Richard, are among the least resilient professionals in the workplace. We talk about how the deeply ingrained skepticism of attorneys is colliding with the unprecedented pace of change brought on by AI and a rapidly evolving legal landscape. Read the full transcript of today's episode here: https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/Pioneers_Dr.-Larry-Richard-Returns.pdf
Transcribe →Zeynep Ersin and Kevin Young
3w ago00:28:24Tap to summarizeToday, we meet our new co-hosts, Kevin Young and Zeynep Ersin. Kevin is a Seyfarth partner and employment litigator who puts new tools and ideas to work in client service, and Zeynep is Seyfarth’s Chief Innovation & Strategic Design Officer, focused on embedding a culture of innovation across the firm. As we launch the next chapter of the podcast, Zeynep and Kevin sit down with the person who built and led this podcast from the very beginning: Steve Poor, Chair Emeritus of Seyfarth and a longtime industry leader who helped pioneer the application of Lean Six Sigma principles to legal service delivery. In today's conversation, Kevin, Zeynep, and Steve discuss the evolution of the legal profession and legal tech, how to define "innovation," and the way podcasts promote learning and innovation, among many topics. Read the full transcript of today's episode here: https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/Pioneers_Zeynep-Ersin-and-Kevin-Young.pdf
Transcribe →Fifth Anniversary, Part II
Apr 800:25:56Tap to summarizeThis episode brings Steve Poor's role as host of Pioneers and Pathfinders to a close. It has been a wonderful five-year ride with fascinating guests sharing intriguing insights on the past and future of the profession. We've learned an enormous amount from each of them, and we appreciate their contribution to what are important dialogues about the future of the profession. To everyone who has listened in to the conversations, thank you. We know the demands on your time, and to think you would make space for this podcast is humbling. Steve wishes all of you peace and serenity as you navigate a rapidly changing, chaotic world. Our listeners should know: Pioneers and Pathfinders will continue with Seyfarth’s Zeynep Ersin and Kevin Young taking over as hosts. Stay tuned—an announcement about their first episode is coming in the weeks ahead. And now, we wrap up with the second part of Steve's conversation with Lorie Almon, Seyfarth's Chair and Managing Partner. Stay strong, and as always, thanks for listening. Read the full transcript of today's episode here: https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/Pioneers_Fifth-Anniversary-Part-2.pdf
Transcribe →Fifth Anniversary, Part I
Apr 100:25:10Tap to summarizeToday we recognize two milestones for this podcast, and thus, we have a special two-part discussion. With this episode, we celebrate five years of over 200 individual guests drawn from all corners of the legal profession. Each guest has been incredibly generous with their time and ideas, and we have learned an enormous amount from them. It has been a wonderful experience. Additionally, these episodes mark the conclusion of Steve Poor's role as host of the podcast. Steve appreciates all our listeners who have gone on this journey with him. These two concluding episodes contain our conversation with Seyfarth's Chair and Managing Partner, Lorie Almon. In part one, Lorie and Steve reflect on the history of innovation in the profession—and at Seyfarth specifically. Next week, we end with a discussion of the current and future state of Big Law, from Lorie's perspective as someone running a Big Law firm. Thanks to Lorie for making the time to join us. We hope you enjoy listening to the conversation. As always, thanks for sharing your time with us. Read the full transcript of today's episode here: https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/Pioneers_Fifth-Anniversary-Part-1.pdf
Transcribe →Michele DeStefano Returns
Mar 2500:30:12Tap to summarizeAs we close out our fifth year, we welcome back one of our early guests, Michele DeStefano, for a fascinating return conversation. Michele is a professor at the University of Miami School of Law, a visiting professor at Harvard Law School, and the founder of LawWithoutWalls. Her work sits at the intersection of leadership, collaboration, and innovation in professional services. In this episode, we explore how artificial intelligence may reshape collaboration, training, and legal education. Michele also discusses the importance of integrating human elements into AI applications, the challenges of adapting legal training to meet modern demands, and the kinds of new roles that may emerge as the profession continues to evolve. As always, Michele brings energy, insight, and a deep commitment to helping the legal profession rethink how it learns, collaborates, and leads in a rapidly changing world. It was great to have one of our old friends back, and we hope you enjoy the conversation. Read the full transcript of today's episode here: https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/Pioneers_Michele-DeStefano-Returns.pdf
Transcribe →Joanna Goodman
Mar 1800:29:48Tap to summarizeToday we’re joined by Joanna Goodman, a freelance journalist, writer, and author covering technology, business, and media for national publications and major corporate clients. Joanna focuses much of her work on how emerging technologies, especially AI, are reshaping the legal profession. She writes the IT column for The Law Society Gazette and contributes regularly to the Legal Geek newsletter. She is also a frequent keynote speaker, panel moderator, and podcast host. In fact, back in 2016, she published one of the earliest books examining AI in legal services, entitled Robots in Law: How Artificial Intelligence is Transforming Legal Services. In our discussion, Joanna reflects on what it was like writing about legal AI long before generative AI entered the mainstream. We talk about separating hype from reality in legal tech, the challenges organizations face when trying to adopt new technologies, and why change management and training are often the hardest parts of transformation. Read the full transcript of today's episode here: https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/Pioneers_Joanna-Goodman.pdf
Transcribe →Dr. Eva Bruch
Mar 1100:28:43Tap to summarizeThis week, we’re joined by Dr. Eva Bruch. Based in Spain, Dr. Bruch is a lawyer, strategic consultant, and partner at LOIS—a consultancy focused on legal operations and the digital transformation of corporate legal departments and law firms. For more than two decades, Dr. Buch has been working at the intersection of strategy, technology, and the legal profession. At LOIS, she helps organizations adopt technology and AI in ways that are practical and tailored to their specific needs, rather than relying on one-size-fits all solutions. She is also a faculty advisor at the Digital Legal Exchange, a global nonprofit that brings together general counsel, legal professionals, and business leaders to learn and collaborate on digital transformation. Additionally, she serves on the Mutuality Foundation's Youth Council, a think tank focused on entrepreneurship and talent development within the legal profession. In our conversation, Dr. Bruch shares the moment she decided to leave traditional legal practice and focus on digital transformation, what legal professionals should be thinking about as they integrate AI into their work, and the critical role senior leadership plays in driving meaningful change. She also offers thoughtful perspectives on how AI should be regulated within the legal profession. Read the full transcript of today's episode here: https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/Pioneers_Dr.-Eva-Bruch.pdf
Transcribe →Marlene Gebauer Returns
Mar 400:28:09Tap to summarizeToday we're delighted to welcome back Marlene Gebauer—self-described “Legal Innovation Heroine,” co-host of The Geek In Review, and one of the most thoughtful voices in the legal innovation community. Since she last joined us in 2022, Marlene has stepped into a new role. She is now a practice support attorney at K&L Gates, while continuing to lead SparkMind Advisors as CEO. It's a combination that perfectly reflects the increasingly hybrid nature of legal innovation work. In our conversation, Marlene shares her perspective on the blending of roles across knowledge management, practice support, and innovation—and how AI is reshaping not just the delivery of legal services, but how that work is valued. We also explore why, even in an era of accelerating technology, human connection remains the essential differentiator. As always, Marlene brings both candor and clarity along with practical advice for legal organizations navigating technological transformation. Read the full transcript here: https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/Pioneers-Marlene-Gebauer-Returns.pdf
Transcribe →Basha Rubin Returns
Feb 2500:27:43Tap to summarizeThis week on Pioneers and Pathfinders, we’re pleased to welcome back Basha Rubin, CEO and co-founder of Priori. It's been about four years since Basha last joined us, and in that time, Priori has gone through a remarkable transformation. What began as a marketplace connecting clients with flexible legal talent and boutique firms has evolved into a robust platform with innovative RFP and panel management tools that help organizations better manage, evaluate, and leverage their outside counsel relationships. In our conversation, Basha reflects on more than a decade of building and leading a legal tech company. She shares insights on scaling a business, evolving a product in a fast-changing market, and navigating the growing complexity of legal data. We also talk about how Priori is preparing for the next wave of technology shaping the legal industry, and she gives us a look into her work with the Yale Law School fund board. It was great catching up with Basha, and we hope you enjoy listening to the conversation. Read the full transcript of today's episode here: https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/Pioneers_Basha-Rubin-Returns.pdf
Transcribe →Sateesh Nori
Feb 1800:33:10Tap to summarizeToday we’re joined by Sateesh Nori. Sateesh is the chief legal futurist at LawDroid and a senior research fellow at NYU School of Law. His work sits at the crossroads of justice, technology, and public service. Before moving into legal innovation, he spent years serving New Yorkers as a housing rights attorney and later as a managing attorney at both The Legal Aid Society and Legal Services of New York City. Now, at LawDroid, Sateesh is focused on making sure legal technology isn't just cutting edge, but also credible, ethical, and grounded in real-world needs, especially the urgent need to expand access to justice. Last year, he partnered with Housing Court Answers and the legal tech company Josef to launch Roxanne the Repair Bot, an AI-powered assistant designed to help New York tenants understand and assert their rights when dealing with unsafe or substandard housing conditions. He is also the author of Sheltered: Twenty Years in Housing Court, which is a powerful look at the systemic challenges facing tenants, as well as the lawyers who work to serve them. In this episode, Sateesh shares how LawDroid’s tools are helping tenants navigate complex legal processes, why trust is so essential in the future of AI and law, how law schools can better prepare lawyers for a tech-enabled profession, and what he is exploring through his research fellowship at NYU. Read the full transcript of today's episode here: https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/Pioneers_Sateesh-Nori.pdf
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