'60 Minutes' Meltdown, Trump's Intel Chief Pick, and Apple’s Next Big Bet

Summary

Pivot Podcast Summary

Episode Title: “60 Minutes’ Meltdown, Trump’s Intel Chief Pick, and Apple’s Next Big Bet”
Date: June 5, 2026
Hosts: Kara Swisher & Scott Galloway
Podcast: Pivot (New York Magazine & Vox Media Podcast Network)

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Episode Overview

This dynamic episode dives into major recent upheavals across media, politics, and technology. Kara and Scott break down the turmoil at “60 Minutes,” examine Trump’s surprising pick for Director of National Intelligence, and debate Apple’s smart glasses ambitions. Along the way, they tackle the California elections, ongoing challenges of leadership and governance, and what it actually takes to create lasting value in tech and politics—with their signature banter, sharp analysis, and a few surprise stories from their own lives.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Behind the Scenes: Hillary Clinton Joins the Pivot Tour (01:37–06:12)

• Kara surprises Scott (and the audience) at their New York tour stop with Hillary Clinton as a guest.
  • Scott reflects on feeling “intimidated” and “sad” about what could have been if Clinton had become president.
  • Kara lauds Clinton’s intelligence, experience with global affairs, and prescience regarding Trump:
    • “One of the things that’s amazing about her is…she does her fucking homework.” (03:57)
  • Both hosts discuss the double standard Hillary faces, especially regarding Bill Clinton and the Epstein scandal.
  • Scott: “I think some calls for sexism…are sometimes overdone. In one instance where it’s underdone…If she had been on Epstein’s Island, people wouldn’t be harassing Bill, asking him to explain why she was on the island.” (05:25)
  • Kara: “She gives zero fuck.” (05:25)

2. Media Upheaval: The ‘60 Minutes’ Meltdown (11:26–22:12)

• Recap of Scott Pelley being ousted from “60 Minutes” after clashing with CBS News’ new management.
  • Kara gives an inside look: Pelley was “being a reporter” asking about the firing of top journalists; CBS management is “lathering themselves in dishonor.”
  • Scott: “When you’re in an industry that’s in structural decline and you have a product that’s up 9% year on year, you don’t fuck with it.” (13:59)
  • Both hosts point to allegations that CBS owners (the Ellisons) want to shade news in Trump’s favor.
  • Kara: “To take a product like this that is not broken and break it is…at some point, you have to wonder what it’s all about.” (16:17)
  • Scott pitches Netflix should hire the ousted “60 Minutes” team and launch a new show, “The Hour.” (18:00)
  • On Nick Bilton’s controversial role: “They sent him into an impossible situation.” (19:28)

3. Trump’s Unqualified Intel Chief Nominee (22:46–32:09)

• Trump names Bill Pulte—real estate heir with no intelligence/national security experience—as acting Director of National Intelligence, replacing Tulsi Gabbard.
  • Kara: “He has no known experience in intelligence. I’m not sure he’s intelligent…He’s called Little Trump. That’s his qualifications.” (24:47)
  • Scott runs through the impressive resumes of past DNI heads, highlighting the absurdity of Pulte’s appointment.
  • Scott: “He’s a rich kid. He builds fucking homes in Fort Myers.” (25:52)
  • Both hosts stress the danger of putting unqualified loyalists in sensitive roles, with Kara warning, “They must be cheering in Russia and China right now.” (26:31)
  • Scott uses the CEO-Board analogy to frame the risk to institutional depth when leaders fear competition from talented subordinates.

4. California Primary: Money, Messaging & the Mirage of Perfection (36:40–44:40)

• Recap and analysis of the messy California governor’s race:
  • Big spending (e.g., Tom Steyer’s $200M+) fails to translate into victory.
  • Amanda Littman (Run for Something, guest audio): “We cannot just spend our way into victory. We have to capture attention…Americans are searching for competence.” (37:13)
  • Scott: “It’s a good thing when the biggest funder doesn’t win…The biggest loser wasn’t Tom Steyer, it’s the California Democratic establishment.” (38:45)
  • Voters care about housing, homelessness, affordability—“governance problems, not ideological problems.”
  • Kara describes L.A. homelessness as “an intractable problem” but adds, “If Spencer Pratt just arrests them…that’s not going to fix anything.” (42:45)
  • Scott: “The race became a choice between Celebrity Hilton, Money Steyer and Experience Becerra. Experience appears to be winning.” (44:14)

5. Apple’s Smart Glasses—Second Mouse Gets the Cheese (44:40–48:43)

• Apple is reportedly preparing to launch consumer smart glasses, expected in 2027.
  • Kara argues Apple’s timing and design chops make it likely to dominate, similar to the Apple Watch trajectory.
  • Scott shares Peter Golder’s “second mouse gets the cheese” insight: Apple lets others prove demand, then conquers the market.
    • “Meta spent tens of billions proving people would wear computers on their face. Apple will show up late, charge 40% more and take 80% of the profits.” (47:34)
  • Both hosts expect Apple to make a mass-market hit—where others have failed—by excelling at design and integration.
  • Kara reflects: “If they shun…It has to be more than cameras. It’s gotta give you information and talk to you…”

6. Trump’s AI Executive Order—A Populist Opportunity Ignored (50:32–52:03)

• Trump signs a watered-down AI executive order, requiring voluntary moderate review in 30 days, bowing to tech pressure.
  • Kara: “It does nothing. It’s just a whole lot of nothing. And David Sacks got his way.” (52:03)
  • Scott: “This is the next great populist movement…whoever leans into regulating AI wins the political equivalent of beachfront property.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Clinton’s event presence:

  • “What she displays is an incredible…she does her fucking homework.” —Kara (03:57)
  • “She gives zero fuck.” —Kara (05:25)

• On “60 Minutes” drama and CBS:

  • “They are lathering themselves in dishonor.” —Kara (12:56)
  • “They’ve decided to perform open heart surgery on the healthiest person in the franchise.” —Scott (16:32)
  • “Netflix presents ‘The Hour.’” —Scott (22:41)

• On Trump’s DNI pick:

  • “He’s a rich kid. He builds fucking homes in Fort Myers.” —Scott (25:52)
  • “They must be cheering in Russia and China right now.” —Kara (26:31)

• On Democratic struggles in CA:

  • “When voters are talking about quality of life and cost of living, ideology takes a backseat to competence.” —Scott (38:45)
  • “If your son’s in the basement playing video games and vaping, you don’t give a flying fuck about territorial sovereignty in Ukraine or transgender rights.” —Scott (40:34)
  • “The race became a choice between Celebrity Hilton, Money Steyer and Experience Becerra. Experience appears to be winning.” —Scott (44:14)

• On Apple’s late mover advantage:

  • “Meta spent tens of billions proving people will wear computers on their face. Apple will show up late, charge 40% more and take 80% of the profits.” —Scott (47:34)
  • “They just were the best. They’ll come in with beautiful glasses…” —Kara (47:57)

• On the coming AI populism:

  • “The first person that really goes into a populist movement around regulating AI is going to have the political equivalent of beachfront property here.” —Scott (51:13)

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Important Timestamps

• 01:37 – 06:12: Hillary Clinton’s surprise event appearance; discussion of her legacy and double standards
• 11:26 – 22:12: Deep-dive into “60 Minutes” scandal, Trump-era media politics, and leadership failures
• 22:46 – 32:09: Trump’s unqualified DNI pick; the dangers of hollowing out institutional expertise
• 36:40 – 44:40: California primaries, Democratic challenges, money and messaging in politics
• 44:40 – 48:43: Apple’s smart glasses strategy and “second mouse” business model
• 50:32 – 52:03: Trump’s AI Executive Order—populist regulatory opportunity missed
• 53:00 – 56:47: Predictions: Dolly Parton beats Missouri cuts; Big Tech will preempt AI IPOs

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Flow & Tone

The episode is characteristically sharp, irreverent, and candid. Kara and Scott mix industry expertise, personal stories, and biting humor, pulling no punches about media incompetence, political corruption, or tech hype cycles. They move quickly from high-level analysis to granular, practical examples—always with mutual ribbing and moments of levity (e.g., Bette Midler listening to Pivot, recurring AirPods jokes).

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Final Thoughts

This episode exemplifies why Pivot is essential listening for those interested in where media, politics, and tech intersect. From the fate of “60 Minutes” and the danger of stacking government with cronies, to dissecting why Apple keeps winning by “going second,” Kara and Scott tackle everything with skepticism, flair, and clarity.

Must-listen moments: Clinton as surprise guest (01:37), Scott's “open heart surgery on the healthiest person” line about CBS (16:32), and the second-mouse Apple analysis (44:40, 47:34). In sum: an episode brimming with insight, leadership lessons, and memorable soundbites for anyone tracking the power dynamics shaping America and Silicon Valley.

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Transcript

[Kara Swisher]

Support for the show comes from Retool. Too many companies run critical operations on duct tape, spreadsheets, slack workflows, and whatever else they could cobble together. Not because they want to, because building internal tools means weeks of waiting on someone else's backlog. That's where Retool comes in. Build custom internal tools just by describing what you need. Prompt something like, build me a revenue dashboard for our salesforce data. And Retool actually builds it on your company's data in your cloud with enterprise security built in. Go to retool.com pivot we all need to retool how we build software.

[Scott Galloway]

From the Goldman Sachs trading floor in 10 minutes or less. Investors and analysts share timely analysis on the week's market activity. The markets podcast from Goldman Sachs. Listen now.

[Kara Swisher]

Cheating on your partner is a huge breach of trust. All of the pain and the guilt and the reality of what was happening hit me just like a tidal wave all at once. Why do people cheat? And why does it make us so mad, even when we are not the ones it's happening to? That's this week on Explain it to Me. New episodes, Sundays, wherever you get your podcasts. You know, it's like someone coming to me and saying, I think you need to lead the New York Knicks to victory. It's like, no. Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York magazine and the Vox Media podcast network. I'm Kara Swisher.

[Scott Galloway]

And I'm Scott Galloway.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, Scott, you so owe me.

[Scott Galloway]

I do owe you. You kind of came through.

[Kara Swisher]

Explain for the people.

[Scott Galloway]

I came through. You delivered one of my heroes.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, I did. Right to you on a silver gold platter.

[Scott Galloway]

So we're fifth and last final city of our five city profji Markets tour. And in New York, obviously important because, you know, this is what I consider,

[Kara Swisher]

I don't know, the center of the universe.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, yeah. Center the universe. Important and sold out. And. And we start talking about Iran and the voice of God comes over and it's Kara Swisher going, you don't know what you're talking about. And then she comes out and everyone goes crazy. People like. People like. Do like Kara. And she goes, you don't know what you're talking. I'm like, well, that's not helpful. Who should we have? And she goes, well, I brought a friend. And then Secretary Clinton comes walking down.

[Kara Swisher]

Hillary Clinton. Yep.

[Scott Galloway]

And she got a stand. She got like a two minute standing ovation.

[Kara Swisher]

She did. People like her. Yeah, people like her.

[Scott Galloway]

And she was. You know what? It's I'm curious to get your thoughts. But A, I was very intimidated. But two, you were.

[Kara Swisher]

You didn't interject. I noticed, but go ahead.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah. But two, I got really sad. I just thought it took me back 10 years.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

How would the nation be different if we had elected just someone this intelligent? So Secretary Clinton and you don't know. Right. Maybe America needed to just. Maybe America needed weirdness to bounce back stronger, which is my silver lining here. Hopefully. But it'd just be interesting to try and game theory out how the world would look different right now.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. You just never know. She might have gotten it somewhere. Who knows? I mean, what was really interesting was how she thinks in paragraphs. Like her intelligence is. So I was. The reason I thought she'd be good for this is cuz we don't know what we're talking about when we're talking about Iran. And she does. She's been in the room with these people, whether it's Ukraine, she's been in that deal. She's been, she understands and can really game it out too. And, and, and, and really does understand. And one of the things that, you know, she, she doesn't get the credit for how prescient she was about Donald Trump too. She called all of it like if you go back with things she was saying about him and it wasn't just campaign, she was like nearly perfect accuracy of what would happen. Cause she's such a. And one of the things that's amazing about her is that, you know, she's gone through shit and she's done some things, you know, look, she's not perfect by any stretch of the imagination. All manner of stuff. I don't think you can be in public office without stuff hanging off of you in some fashion. And she shouldn't, you know, have to answer for her husband all the time, by the way. Especially, you know, remember the Epstein stuff. She's like, why am I even here? I didn't, I didn't sleep with underage young women or whatever, but I thought she was. What she displays is an incredible. She does her fucking homework. I guess that's what I'm trying to get at.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah. There's definitely again, I think hard work, character and competence. I'm hoping it makes a comeback. She was known when she was a senator from New York. She had a reputation among colleagues on both sides of the aisle of just working really hard.

[Kara Swisher]

She does.

[Scott Galloway]

And I also said at the, when she left the stage and we're talking about her talk a lot about role models for young men and an absence of great role models at a kind of a federal level. And, you know, masculinity and femininity are social constructs, and we get to fill them with whatever associations we want. And we talk about. We talk about her being a great role model for young women. I think she's a great role model for young men. Service strength, intellect, working hard.

[Kara Swisher]

She's amazing. She. She just brings it, and it's really. And she's actually, I hate, say, softened up, but she's starting to get that at Hillary Clinton backstage is starting to be on stage now.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, she's got zero fucks to give.

[Kara Swisher]

She gives zero fuck.

[Scott Galloway]

And also just something you brought up. And that is. I do think, a lot of times, I think some calls for sexism or calling out sexism is sometimes overdone. In one instance where it's underdone or doesn't get enough reporting. If she had been on Epstein's island, people wouldn't be harassing Bill, asking him to explain why she was on the aisle.

[Kara Swisher]

That's right. Yeah, totally.

[Scott Galloway]

It's just like, no one would, you know, if Graham Platner's wife had been sexting, no one would be giving him a hard time. There is a. That Double standards is on full display. When she gave testimony.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, she was so funny.

[Scott Galloway]

Village idiot. Representative Boebert started asking about her husband and Epstein. It's like, well, okay, ask him.

[Kara Swisher]

Ask him.

[Scott Galloway]

You have the power of subpoena or whatever the hell it is. Ask him.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, she was good. I love that, Hillary. Anyway, I'm gl. I'm glad. It was great. I'm glad that you had a successful run. You know what I did today?

[Scott Galloway]

What'd you do?

[Kara Swisher]

I was on the View.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, you're on the View.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

You were a guest host. How was that? You were in a chair.

[Kara Swisher]

Good. I'm gonna do it again tomorrow. I was middle chair. It was so much fun. I love that Whoopi. I like the whole team of them. Sunny and Alyssa and didn't know Sarah. She was amazing, and it was great. I have Joy Behar's seat. Joy Behar's seat. She's doing some show in Paris or some writers festival or something, and I love that team there. As I've said, they're so profess. It was. You know what? You know, I always complain about going on the cable shows where they yell at each other. I don't like it. These are good conversations, actually. They're really good conversations, and I really appreciate it. And people try to come, and I think it's cause of Whoopi Goldberg. They try to come to some sort of not agreement, but just like, she doesn't tolerate shitty conversations. And I really appreciate that. I like it. And the whole. The entire show is so well produced. And I just enjoyed it quite a bit. And it was funny because this guy who's in I'm Gonna Galzata, he's in the new he man movie, and he was on a bunch of great movies and he's very, very handsome. And all the audience started screaming for him and it was fantastically fun. They have live audience, which I like too.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah. Like I said, they give great tv. They're very good at what they do.

[Amanda Littman]

Yeah.

[Kara Swisher]

I love the ladies of the View

[Scott Galloway]

and I love that that's a good seat for you.

[Kara Swisher]

It is a good seat for me. Maybe I'll just stay there and never leave.

[Scott Galloway]

Anyway, there you go.

[Kara Swisher]

We'll see. And reminder, I'm taping a live interview, by the way, of on with Kara Swisher at the Rebecca Film Festival here in New York on Monday, June 8th. That's next week. I'll be talking to comedian and podcast pioneer Marc Maron, which I'm very excited about. He's the original gangster of podcasting.

[Scott Galloway]

He's great.

[Kara Swisher]

He's amazing. He's also an actor, comic, and everything else. Tickets are available [e-mail] audio Anyway, I like being in New York. I like it. Are you staying for a little bit? Are you?

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, I think I'm going to be here a week and then I go to Stockholm and then. Yeah. So, by the way, it's beautiful here.

[Kara Swisher]

It's beautiful.

[Scott Galloway]

You know, I don't know. It's so funny. There's always predictions, you know, pandemics hit, a bunch of hedge funders leave, crime goes up, and everyone, everyone talks about the death of New York. I walk around New York right now, no fucking way. There's a line to get in the Birkenstock store.

[Kara Swisher]

There was a line at the soft ice cream store the other day, like I was trying mixed bankers bonuses are

[Scott Galloway]

at all time highs. Crime, by the way, in New York is at historic lows. I mean, if this is what the

[Kara Swisher]

Knicks, the Knicks might win the final,

[Scott Galloway]

but if this is what a decline looks like, I'd love to see what prosperity looks like. And I've said for a long time that you don't recognize you're in a golden age till 20 or 30 years later. I think people are gonna look Back on New York, in this era, post Covid new restaurants and the ultimate luxury item. I said this last night at the podcast or on the the tour. The ultimate luxury item isn't a home in Aspen or a Gulf stream. It's being 28 and having. Figuring out a way to live in New York and knowing that every time you leave your house, your life could change. You could find someone to fund your business. You could find a co founder. You could find just some incredible, inspiring piece of art or culture. You could find someone you end up marrying.

[Kara Swisher]

It's the greatest city on earth. It really is. And I love a lot of cities, but it is the greatest city on earth.

[Scott Galloway]

And it's not. People talk about ingenuity being a function of technology. It's not. It's a function of proximity and people and density. And the reality is, in New York, there's 8 million people getting in each other's way. And I say that as a feature, not a bug. You can't help but not bump off of people.

[Kara Swisher]

Constantly. Constantly. Yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

And it's the opposite of what ails. I think America, especially young people, there's a lack of bumping off of other people.

[Kara Swisher]

I agree. Empty sidewalks. I get so annoyed by the fucking sidewalks here now. But I'm kind of liking them, right? Like, I'm like, oh, my God, can I get up the street without 900? Everywhere, people everywhere.

[Scott Galloway]

And I'm. There's two types of.

[Kara Swisher]

I guess mom dummy didn't kill the city. Oh, well.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, still time. But anyways, there's. There's two types of people in New York. Rich kids and people trying really hard that are really talented.

[Kara Swisher]

I mean, and workers and. Anyway, we've. We love New York and we're here. We're here. We're appearing in New York this week.

[Scott Galloway]

I think it's.

[Kara Swisher]

Anyway, we're not gonna be hanging out, but we are appearing. I guess you don't wanna come to my award tomorrow. I'm getting an award? A legal award. Lambda.

[Scott Galloway]

They already tried to hit me up for money.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, okay.

[Scott Galloway]

Can I tell you this story?

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, sure. Very quick.

[Scott Galloway]

Hi. Good news. Kara's being honored by Lambda. We'd like you to donate $100,000 and we'll put a paddle up with a $100,000 number on it. I'm like. I wrote back. I'm like, you're clearly not in fundraising. You know, don't just. Don't just shove your tongue down my throat. I mean, tell me I'm pretty first.

[Kara Swisher]

Also say I'll surround you with beautiful lesbians at a table. Who.

[Scott Galloway]

I'm like. I wrote back, and I'm like, thanks, but I'm gonna pass.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. Yeah. Good. That's okay.

[Scott Galloway]

I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Carol. I like you, but I don't like you that much anyway.

[Kara Swisher]

It's a great award, actually. Preet Bharara is gonna be giving it to me. Had they known you were in New York, they might have asked you. But Preet is gonna do it. Cause he's that good.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, that's an upgrade. He's much more credible anyway.

[Kara Swisher]

The big story in media this week is 60 Minutes correspondent Scott Pelley is out at CBS. Pelly's firing came after he accused CBS News chief Barry Weiss of murdering 60 Minutes, according to a leaked audio from staff. Meaning he also told the Nick Bilton, a longtime tech journalist and filmmaker. Someone I know that his qualifications run 60 minutes. It's run 60 minutes for slender. That is accurate. Bilton sent Peli a letter on Tuesday saying he'd been terminated for cause, effective immediately. It was a terribly written letter, Nick. It really was an embarrassment to you. Barry Weiss later sent an editorial call that Pelley was fired because the foundation of trust had been broken. After his firing, though, Peli wrote in a statement, incompetence and unprofessionalism and the new management have wreaked havoc. He also wrote a response to her letter and what she was saying to the staff, and then recounted word for word. He looks like he must have taken notes during the whole thing. Exactly what happened and said, basically, call them liars about that. They didn't try to get together. I thought Peli. They should not mess with this guy. He's a really good reporter. And they are. They're being disingenuous, I think mendacious, actually. This is the guy, Tom, whatever his name is. All of them, they're just. They're really. They're lathering themselves in dishonor. 60 Minutes has been on the air since 1968. I just, you know, you're not a media person. This is, of course, illuminating media people. One of my disappointments appointments here is the journalism is getting lost in all of this drama. This is not. Nobody's talking about the stories, which is what 60 Minutes has been astonishing about. And the fact that they could just. That he was asking normal questions. Why did you fire all these really good people, including Tanya Simon, who ran the show and took it to new heights? Why did you fire these other correspondents? Also Cecilia Vega and Sharon Alfonsi, why did you fire them? And they wouldn't give an answer. And I think it's very appropriate that he asked and they were trying to act like he was. That he was throwing a tantrum. He absolutely was not. I'm sorry, he wasn't. He was being a reporter. So your thoughts?

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, I don't. So, you know, my view. I think media and journalists tend to think they're more precious than they are. And I don't buy the notion that journalism is. I understand the chill that the Trump administration is trying to put on different outlets. And I have heard from producers that it has created a chill. But I've said this before. I wish the Washington Post would just go away already. I'm sick of talking about it. Because I do think the most talented journalists. I think there's a huge echo of interesting companies doing great work and 60 minutes, I think the world would survive without it. Having said that, I just look at it through a business lens. When you're in an industry that's in structural decline and you have a product that's up 9% year on year, you don't fuck with it.

[Kara Swisher]

Right. And doing well digitally, that was just very disingenuous in their memos. It's doing very well digitally, actually.

[Scott Galloway]

It's literally like, okay, Phil Jackson's job at the Chicago Bulls wasn't to be the boss and disrupt the Bulls. It was to get along with Michael Jordan.

[Kara Swisher]

Right?

[Scott Galloway]

The job of CBS management right now is to get along with 60 minutes.

[Kara Swisher]

I think it's a little more serious than that. Cause I think you're leaving out the Trump thing. Each of these people have said that these particular managers are trying to fuck with the stories to try to shade them. Peli is making this allegation. Sharon made this allegation publicly. Cecilia Vega made this. These are very professional people. These are the top of their game. Right? It's not like whiny righteous. They're not being whiny righteous. They're like, what are you doing? Like, these are. They're doing great work. And then you fuck with them. Like, cause. And then excuses. And by the way, I'm sorry, I don't know Bari Weiss. I do know Nick Bilton. None. You are not qualified compared to these people. I wouldn't be qualified to run this. Right? Like, the fact that they think they can give instructions to these people. I wouldn't have the arrogance to think I was better than them. And the excuse they're using is that the excuse they're using Is that, well, we're gonna fix it before it goes downhill. That's their excuse. Well, it's inevitably gonna go downhill, and therefore we're gonna fix it. Let me tell you, I have more digital experience than both of you. And you don't know what you're talking about. Cause first of all, you're being disingenuous about their digital stuff, which is doing okay. And secondly, this is not the way to do it. By wrecking it. This. Wreck it. In order to save the village. We're gonna bomb the village to save the village. This is nonsense on every level. And I am someone who knows more than both of them put together. And I still have room for more. And I'm an actual journalist. Nick is a journalist. I'm still higher on the food chain than he is. I'm sorry. And one of the things is that they're not talking about the journalism. And these three people that they fired and Tonya Simon are amazing journalists, and they should thank them for their existence. And instead, because they need to shade things with the. And I do believe these reporters, they are trying to shade the news in service of Trump. And therefore, there are minions to the powerful owners who own them, which are the Ellisons. And that's where the real problem is, is these people are. These people have a whole nother game going on. And to take a product like this that is not broken and break it is. At some point, you have to wonder what it's all about.

[Scott Galloway]

They've decided to perform open heart surgery on the healthiest person in the franchise.

[Kara Swisher]

It's this excellent way to put it.

[Scott Galloway]

And I don't know Nick well, but I've been on his podcast. I think he's a talented producer, a talented journalist. But in my view, I'm not sure a journalist should be running it. I think it should be a Jeff Zucker like character who has tremendous respect for journalism. But quite frankly, she's a really strong manager. I think the person that shows up to 60 minutes says, how can I help? Well done. Call me when you. When. How. How can I help? But what the. The narrative they're putting out there is the following. You disrupt from a point of strength. Okay, as someone who teaches strategy, these people don't. They're using the wrong words. Disruptors are small companies that go after fat incumbents and start eating up from a small niche. And typically that is absolutely true. To say that is to say that, well, CBS News, which is hemorrhaging people, should stay the course. Then what I think the word he's looking for. There's some excuse if he said it's an amazing place, we want to continue what we're doing, but we're also just. We don't ever want to be fat and happy. We want to innovate. He's using the wrong words. The last thing you do at the one place that's working is disrupt it. That's not. That's not what you do. But I want to move on. I've got an idea, and I'm literally going to text Ted Sarandos. I think there's an enormous opportunity. If I were Ted Sarandos, I'd hire all these people.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

I would call Scott Pelley and Anderson Cooper and say, I'm going to pay each of you $10 million. You hire whoever the fuck you want, including executive producer. And Netflix is going to put out something called the Hour, and it's going to be every week.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, that's our online. Yeah, I think it's a great. We are going to move on. This is the only thing I have to say is this is not how you fix. This is not what you do. And by the way, here's what I. The advice I would give is, let's see what you can do. So far, the results are bad at cbs. Everything's going down, down, down. Your shows are losing people. The other shows, by the way, ABC and NBC are gaining. So you're doing something. Your changes are not working. Secondly, and again, I like Nick Bilton. I do. I do. I know a lot of people. He's very controversial. He gets a lot of attacks. I like Nick Bilton. He needs to show results. If you're gonna do something, don't come in and tell everybody. Like, give them lectures about digital disruption. Make changes, make them with respect and just let's see the results. This feels so Chris Lichtian that he kept talking more than he was doing. And so I feel like results are all that matter. Get in there, do good journalism, and then come out the other side and otherwise. And again, I'm sorry, I'm not qualified to run this place. And these people should not be running this place. I don't know what else to say.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah. But to be fair, and you know these people better than I do, I think Nick, I think they poured honey on Nick and sent him hunting for.

[Kara Swisher]

Correct. That's the one. Feel sick for him.

[Scott Galloway]

They sent him into an impossible situation.

[Kara Swisher]

Right.

[Scott Galloway]

And I would like to hear Nick's side of this story, quite frankly. And I think he's Coming on the podcast. But look, the only way this person is successful is to show up and say just a few things. I will quit the moment you come to me and say, protect me from outside political influences that are hurting my journalism. I will be your heat shield. I'm committing to that right now.

[Kara Swisher]

That's what's happening here.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, I agree, but I think he needs to say that. And if he can't say that, he shouldn't take the job. And two, I recognize this institution is more storied and more credible than my resume right now. I am a talented, thoughtful person. I'm gonna do my best to provide you with the resources and the ideas should you want them to make this an even stronger institution. But you call me, I get it.

[Kara Swisher]

I still. I think qualifications matter. And you need to hire someone who has more qualifications in this area, who's done television, who's managed big teams. That's. I'm sorry, you don't just give a job. Like, you just don't. You just don't. And again, full of great, interesting ideas. I agree with you. But you don't give a job to someone who doesn't have the experience to run it.

[Scott Galloway]

And I think, well, okay, I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that there have probably been people with lesser qualifications who've also been asked to run important media properties. This isn't about. This isn't as much about his qualifications. It's about the context and how they've gone about this. If this had been a different situation at a different time and someone with those qualifications had come in and said, look, I promise to protect you from outside political influence that gets in the way of your journalism. I realize I'm in over my head. I hope you're patient with me. I'm gonna do my best to help you continue. I think that person could be successful distinct of their lack of a qualification.

[Kara Swisher]

He was working for people who haven't been accused of meddling. You know, I mean, and the Ellison themselves.

[Scott Galloway]

But that's not him. That's a bigger issue.

[Kara Swisher]

Yes, but he took the job with them. So, anyway, it's not Nick's fault. You're absolutely.

[Scott Galloway]

But what you're saying is it's doomed. Anyone's doomed. And that might be a fair point, that there's no way for anyone to be successful in that role right now.

[Kara Swisher]

I think in this case, it is. I think they have another. There's another game afoot here that is nothing to do with. They want to wreck this thing you're

[Scott Galloway]

saying it's being turned into. And this is the most damning thing several people have said who've exited the organization. It's being perverted and queered from a great journalistic operation that is arguably one of the most successful. It perhaps is the most successful TV show of its kind in history. It's being used basically to become propaganda for the Trump administration.

[Kara Swisher]

That's correct. That's correct. And I usually go away from those things, but it feels like Edward R. Murrow, remember when he got screwed? You know what I mean? Like, this is. It has that feel to it. Anyway, we'll see where it goes. But let me just tell you, Scott. And I don't know Scott. I don't know Cecilia. Although I'm looking forward to meeting her. I think Sharon is terrific. They're all terrific journalists, and I believe them. I'm sorry. I believe them over. They're just really good. And all the people there. And I've talked to lots of people at.

[Scott Galloway]

Netflix presents the Hour.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, I love it. The Hour. The hour. How about 59 minutes?

[Scott Galloway]

3,600 seconds.

[Kara Swisher]

3,600 seconds. You know, this idea of lack of qualifications. I'm sorry, I'm sort of obsessed with it. President Trump named Bill Pulte, who runs the Federal Housing Finance Agency, as the new acting director of National Intelligence, replacing Tulsa Gabbard, who's stepping down. Pulte is best known for accusing several of Trump's enemies of mortgage fraud, none of which went anywhere, including New York AG Letitia James. He has no known experience in intelligence. I'm not sure he's intelligent, defense or national security. He's called Little Trump. That's his qualifications. It's unclear whether Trump will ask the Senate to confirm Pulte. By law, anyone nominated for this role must have extensive national security expertise. Republicans are attacking him. You saw several Republicans saying he has no expertise. Democrats, especially, like our friend Mark Warner, is losing his mind over this. It's not the same. Nick is very competent, but this guy is incompetent. This guy is incompetent at this job, and all he does is he steps on a rake every five minutes and hits his head. And the same thing with Todd Blanche, who Trump caved on his slush fund. Acting Attorney General Todd Blanche, Trump's personal attorney, says the DOJ is abandoning plans to for that $1.8 billion fund to compensate people who claim they're unfairly investigated. It was a rare instance of congressional Republicans pushing back and winning. Trump is still getting carte Blanche on his tax issues through this deal. I can't believe that we're giving him a free pass there. Your thoughts?

[Scott Galloway]

So some context. The reason the position was created the Director of National intelligence was after 911 policymakers concluded that there was a lack of coordination amongst our 18 intelligence agencies. So there was really great intelligence pre 911 that something like this might happen. But the lack of coordination meant the right information didn't bubble up to the right people in time. And I don't think it's fair to call him an incompetent. He's just not qualified, which is kind of the same thing. But I.

[Kara Swisher]

Incompetent to this task.

[Scott Galloway]

Agreed, agreed. So let's just review the past directors of National Intelligence, their background. So let's start with Tulsi Gabbard, to be fair. Combat veteran, military officer, member of Congress, House Armed Services Committee. Averill Haynes, Deputy CIA Director, Deputy National Security Advisor John Ratcliffe, Congressman, House Intelligence Committee member, former Federal prosecutor Dan Coates,

[Kara Swisher]

now head of the CIA, by the way. Go ahead.

[Scott Galloway]

Dan Coats, Senator, Ambassador to Germany, member of the Senate Intelligence Committee. James Clapper, former Undersecretary of Defense for Intelligence, decades of military intelligence. Dennis Blair, four star admiral, former commander of U.S. pacific Command, overseeing Indo Pacific military operations. Mike McConnell, former director of the NSA, vice admiral, career intelligence professional. John Negropont, 40 year diplomat, ambassador to Iraq, UN ambassador, director of national intelligence created after 911 reforms. And Bill Pulte. I'm gonna say this. He's a rich kid. He builds fucking homes in Fort Myers.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, that's right.

[Scott Galloway]

And he might be a nice man. He might be very competent. He might be a brilliant businessman. He's 38 and he picks out sub zeros for homes and retirement communities and scales.

[Kara Swisher]

That's a big job. That's a big job, Scott.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, okay.

[Kara Swisher]

No, I'm teasing.

[Scott Galloway]

It's not a problem. The notion that we're gonna put. Look, this is going to put our are servicemen and service women in harm's way, endangered unnecessarily and recklessly. 2. Do you think the Mossad or MI6 are going to continue to share information with our intelligence agencies?

[Kara Swisher]

They must be cheering in Russia and China right now. They must be cheering.

[Scott Galloway]

This is again one of the most dangerous things. And also I think the American public is guilty of this. I think the American public has taken for granted the depths of the experience and commitment of what is the best performing organization in the world. And that is the US government and how deep the expertise is.

[Kara Swisher]

Expertise? Yes.

[Scott Galloway]

Of people who decide to forego a lot of wealth and lifestyle to go to work for our, our intelligence community, our government, our diplomatic corps, our Defense Department. And we're putting in one of the most dangerous thing that is now starting to bubble up as we see in missteps in Iran and other places.

[Kara Swisher]

They're unprepared for their meetings. They're settling in. Jared Kushner and Steve Witkoff. Are you kidding? This is what Hillary was saying. They're running circles around us. The Iranians send in like, very qualified people to these negotiations, and instead we send in people that didn't have any idea they were going to close the Strait of Hormuz. Like, why would it occur to them since they're not. This lack of expertise and it is a real thing. It's like, you know, it's like someone coming to me and saying, I think you need to lead the New York Knicks to victory. It's like, no. Like I have no qualifications to do so. And this kind of thing. The reason he was hired, two reasons I think, is one, he's called Little Trump. Listen, I don't think he's a nice person. I've seen him interviewed. He seems like an idiot, but besides, he seems like a pompous ass. I think he was selected so Trump can control the whole thing. He has to put these unqualified minions into place. It's always the case with anyone who puts someone who's not qualified in place, which is they want to control the situation. And Trump himself is unqualified to run this situation too, by the way. And this is what happens. And that's very dangerous. Same thing with Todd Blanche. He was his lawyer and now he's doing his gut work for him. Essentially this slush fund. Are you kidding? Like giving him carte blanche in taxes.

[Scott Galloway]

Terrorist immunization fund.

[Kara Swisher]

That's correct. Yeah. The private militia fund is what I call it.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah. I never miss an opportunity to try and sound important. I've been on a bunch of public boards and a general unwritten rule. So think about it. The CEO answers to a board that's supposed to be a fiduciary for all shareholders. The President. Everyone needs a boss. Everyone should and does answer to somebody. The President no longer answers to co equal branches of government. Republican Congress has been neutered. You know, the speaker of the House is basically just doing. He's just doing the dirty work for the President. He's not in any way giving his Republican colleagues a seat at the table here. He's trying to run roughshod over them based on what the president wants. The Supreme Court, I would argue, has been politicized. I think a series of appointments have created certain decisions that I would argue who don't have a hell of a lot of fidelity to the Constitution, but to conservative values or what the president wants. Not always. I do think they do hold a line on some things, but I would argue that it is no longer oversight for the president. The only people that provide any sort of checks and balance for Trump right now are voters. And the first thing you notice on a board, one of the first things you notice with experienced board members in terms of how they evaluate a CEO, is a lot of CEOs have had to be in a closet in a knife fight for so long to get to where they are that a lot of CEOs have a tendency to shoot talented people on their team who might be the next CEO. And you end up with a talented CEO who has a really weak infrastructure of senior managers. And one of the first tests on a board to see if a CEO is a good CEO is how often is he bringing in, highlighting and praising other senior managers and if he were or she were to get hit by a bus. If you're running a public company and there aren't two or three people that could potentially be the CEO, you are not a CEO. And you see it all the time. You see these CEOs who all of a sudden start shooting talented people who are recruited away to go be the CEO of another company because it was clear they were not. Your job as a CEO is to immediately say to the most talented people, I'm gonna be here three, four, eight years. And if you stick around, there's a shot you're gonna be CEO. And I'm gonna help prepare you to be CEO of this company or somewhere else.

[Kara Swisher]

It always happens this way. They always sort of amass power. They don't wanna be replaced. They shoot their minions in the head just so they can stand up.

[Scott Galloway]

I've worked with some CEOs who are very good at maturing managers and recognize it's a responsibility to. I think Apple has five potential CEOs in the management.

[Kara Swisher]

More common is the CEO who cannot be replaced.

[Scott Galloway]

But a good board, a good board makes that part of the compensation criteria.

[Kara Swisher]

Right?

[Scott Galloway]

Are you putting in place really strong succession planning here? The president, I mean, it's just insane. There is absolutely. I just love the fact that everyone's talking about Rubio or Vance. President Trump is fucking Chernobyl. If you stick around him long Enough. You die of political leukemia. The notion that he gives a shit,

[Kara Swisher]

he doesn't bring people along.

[Scott Galloway]

He would rather see the Republican Party burned to the ground.

[Kara Swisher]

That's what I now believe. Cuz he doesn't care. He doesn't care about.

[Scott Galloway]

He doesn't give a shit about the Republican Party or ideas.

[Kara Swisher]

I'm like, waiting for him to, like, invade, I don't know, Newark or something.

[Scott Galloway]

He wants everyone to go, oh. He wants everyone to say, oh, this Republican Party is nothing without Trump. He would rather see them go down in flames. He'd rather see AOC President than J.D. vance.

[Kara Swisher]

He wants it to go down in flames because he wants it not to outlive him. Anyway, really interesting time. But please, people who aren't qualified don't do jobs. Don't, don't, don't, don't.

[Scott Galloway]

Lisa. National security.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, national security.

[Scott Galloway]

I say go for jobs you're not qualified for. Unless it's the dni.

[Kara Swisher]

Let me just tell you. Guess what? You would do a better job as Director of National Security.

[Scott Galloway]

You keep saying that as an example of how terrible Trump administration is this after I run for mayor of Los Angeles. That's the last job you've worked with.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, you could be a good job. I think he'd be good at that.

[Scott Galloway]

Anyway, the mayor of Los Angeles has no power. It's a terrible job. It's almost impossible to govern that city.

[Kara Swisher]

Exactly. That's why we need to put you there, because you can swan around with the rich people and you love.

[Scott Galloway]

I do like that. I do like swanning.

[Kara Swisher]

Can I just say, speaking of Oscar parties, so I was at this dinner for the Tribeca Film Festival, and Bette Midler was sitting two doors down, like two seats down. And she listens to pivot. And she's lovely, by the way. She's great.

[Scott Galloway]

She is lovely.

[Kara Swisher]

And she leans over Bloomberg to me and she goes, let me just tell you something in her Bette Midler voice. And she goes, I don't want you to get a big head. You went to the Oscar party, Cara. And I'm like, oh, I didn't go to the Oscar party. I said that. I said, bette Midler. It was Scott that went to the Oscar party. And she goes, oh, you know, she does that voice of hers. She goes, oh, I still don't want you to get a big head. And I'm like, I didn't go to the Oscar part. I stayed home, I watched the Oscar with my kids. Like, what are you. Totally. I got accused of Scott. Things by Bette Midler well, if it

[Scott Galloway]

makes you feel any better, at about 11:30 I got anxious and I went home and raided the minibar and drank myself to sleep.

[Kara Swisher]

Okay, all right. Anyway, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, California Primary Results.

[Scott Galloway]

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[Kara Swisher]

Scott we're back with more news. Let's get into the primary races in California. What a fucking mess this is. As we record on Wednesday, ballots for California's governor's race are still being counted with Republican Steve Hilton and Democratic Xavier Becerra in the lead. In Los Angeles, Mayor Karen Bass holds the lead in results, but it became the city's first sitting mayor since 2005 to fail to earn 50% of votes required to avoid a runoff. As we tape, the race for the second runoff spot is too close to call with Spencer Pratt currently in the lead. Let's listen to a clip we got from co founder of Run for Something Amanda Littman about the situation. Hi Kara.

[Amanda Littman]

Hi Scott. So I will say it's still a little early to have some hot takes on the California election results. We'll know more at the end of the day today on Wednesday, however, a few things I am noticing. How much money does or does not matter. You know Thomas Dyer spent upwards of 200 million of his own dollars on this campaign. Maybe more. Seems like unless the results come back differently and the ballots are counting now, he's not going to make it to November. Meanwhile down in la, Spencer Pratt, even if he doesn't make it all the way to the runoff, we'll see how these ballots come in for Nithya really modeled a new way of doing this. Mega viral user generated AI videos breaking through with really authentic video capitalizing on the honestly candidate agnostic media ecosystem the right has built. We have to be prepared for this. We cannot just spend our way into victory. We have to capture attention in order to win. That means interesting candidates. That means engaging messages. It means sometimes a little bit more risk tolerance. We've gotta be willing to lean in and be a little bit more unscripted. And that is something that is very, very hard for Democrats to do but is the only way we're going to be able to capture the voters we need this fall.

[Kara Swisher]

Interesting that's very smart. I agree with her. I gotta say. We talked a little, sort of about Graham Platner. The same thing is that, you know, are you gonna expect perfection or results? Essentially. Thoughts on this? Thoughts on this situation. In California, my son voted for Tom Steyer. Interesting. I think I shouldn't say that, but I think that's how he voted for it.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, but actually, people, the story will be about Tom Steyer couldn't spend a quarter of a billion dollars to get into a runoff. It reminds me a little bit of Meg Whitman's campaign for going out.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, yeah. Do you remember that?

[Scott Galloway]

And that is, on paper, they're very attractive candidates, but for what? And they just don't resonate with voters. And I actually think it's a good thing when the biggest funder doesn't win. I think that's actually a positive. But the biggest loser in this wasn't Tom Steyer. It's the California Democratic establishment. California is the bluest large state in America, yet the dominant issues weren't about bodily autonomy, Trump or democracy. It was affordability, housing, energy costs, insurance, homelessness. And when voters are talking about quality of life issues and cost of living, ideology takes a backseat to competence. And Democrats are not perceived as the party that is true of competence. And national candidates need to take a page here and start like, JB Pritzker is really focused on shit like upgrading the bond rating of Illinois bonds. That shit's important. It's boring, but it's really important. So Steyer, the story will be. Steyer just proved money is overrated right

[Kara Swisher]

now if you're not a compelling candidate.

[Scott Galloway]

And Hilton's success is a symptom, not the story. He's not winning because California became conservative overnight. He's benefiting again from something much more dangerous for Democrats who think the current model just isn't working. So what does California have right now? The highest housing costs in America, some of the highest energy prices, persistent homelessness despite enormous spending, net outmigration over much of the last decade. And, you know, these are governance problems, not ideological problems. And Hilton and to a lesser extent, Pratt are vessels for that frustration.

[Kara Swisher]

I think that's a very canny way to put it. They aren't something fresh. They're not rushing towards them. They're reacting against something.

[Scott Galloway]

This is why mothers voted for Trump who have traditionally voted Democratic. If your son's in the basement playing video games and vaping, you don't give a flying fuck about territorial sovereignty in Ukraine or transgender rights. And at some point, when there Are homeless people everywhere, despite reports it's costing taxpayers $70,000 per homeless person. You don't care about how thoughtful. You don't want someone cosplaying Obama. You want someone who says, I'm going to come in and I'm going to be a lifestyle mirror and focus on competence and getting shit done. And by the way, anyone who does an ounce of due diligence around which I've done a little, I've just started doing around what it means to govern in la. All of the shitposting and criticism, a lot of it fair. The mayor basquettes, A lot of it is unfair because some of it is about bureaucracy at the FEMA level and good luck. Whoever wins out, the mayor of la. A lot of the. You know, it's actually the president of the LA county and the board of Supervisors that have all the power. Louisiana, similar to you could argue about California has become ungovernable. But until Democrats at an executive level start showing they can improve the quality of people's life and offer them good value for the money. Every state is a product. You pay for it in taxes, you expect a product. And right now there's just no getting around it. Democratically run products aren't gaining share, they're losing share.

[Kara Swisher]

Some of these. Let me be, Let me. To be fair, homelessness is an intractable problem. It's one of these most difficult problems in California gets it because of the weather and because people want to go there. You know, Los Angeles particularly, it's a great place to be homeless. Compared to like, I don't know, Montana or somewhere else.

[Scott Galloway]

It is really bad.

[Kara Swisher]

It is really bad. It is. But there's all these problems, like where do you begin? Because it's such. And it's also an interrelated problem. So they have the war worst problem of the worst of a terrible problem that's already hard to fix in an easy, you know, even if you had minor homelessness. But again, it's a complicated multifaceted issue that you have to do piece by piece. And I don't think any. I mean, I don't think if Spencer Pratt, he's just gonna arrest them. That's not gonna work. That's not gonna cause. That's not gonna fix anything.

[Scott Galloway]

It's not gonna. You're right, it's not gonna work. And by the way, your house burning down isn't a qualification to be married.

[Kara Swisher]

No, not at all. Not at all. But he is canny. She's right. He's good. He's good at The.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, he's. By the way, he's run an outstanding campaign. Outstanding. Yeah.

[Kara Swisher]

We'll see where it goes.

[Scott Galloway]

The silver lining here is Becerra, and that is he might be exactly what Democrats need. He isn't exciting. And quite frankly, that's probably why he won. If you were to summarize, you know, Democrats have spent a decade searching for charisma. Right now, it appears voters are searching for competence.

[Kara Swisher]

Daniel Lurie is that he does videos every single day from a different restaurant in San Francisco. He goes somewhere, he makes some mistakes.

[Scott Galloway]

He's not talking about Israel. He's not talking about transgender rights. He's not talking about bodily autonomy. He's not talking about Trump. He's just like, how do I get Munich to get people to work?

[Kara Swisher]

But then he's also doing happy ones, too. Like, I just went to this great Korean restaurant. He's very good. He's. I would, I would go. I'd follow Daniel Lurie's lead in a lot of these things. You don't have to be a douche nozzle like Spencer Pratt. He's basically a douche nozzle. Daniel's getting stuff done and using social media in a really. I'd pay attention to what he's doing. Cause he's not a compelling, like, wow. Personality. I mean, and he is, he's lovely, by the way, but he's not like, like, show up, you know, hand waving at all. But I think he does use social media.

[Scott Galloway]

He feels like upper middle management.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. And he's also very. He seems competent. He gets things done. He's always on social media. I look at him. Anyway, maybe he'll be governor of California,

[Scott Galloway]

but just to come back to California, the race became a choice between Celebrity Hilton, Money Steyer and Experience Becerra. And Experience appears to be winning. And the national lesson the Democrats need to draw from this is the Democratic Party keeps assuming every election is a referendum on Trump. Increasingly, voters are treating elections as a referendum on whether they can afford groceries, insurance, electricity, and a mortgage.

[Kara Swisher]

And what your governor can do about that, not governors can't or mayor can do about it. Anyway, last story here. Apple's smart glasses are now expected to launch in late 2027 after the company hits some delays. More glass is from Apple. Scott. Apple is reportedly following the playbook similar to Apple Watch, focusing on driving mainstream adoption of both glasses and sunglasses. These are things that look like glasses. First generation glasses are expected to emphasize features like cameras, but Apple believes glasses could eventually evolve into a health device and incorporate augmented Reality. Now, I know you've been critical of the Oculus and Apple Vision Pro. These are big heavy units. These were more like what Meta has with their Ray Bans or their other different things. So. So I have a feeling Apple's gonna come right up the back, up the middle and take it all just like with the watch. I think they'll design the best glasses, they'll work the best, and this is a way it goes mainstream. If this thing is to go mainstream.

[Scott Galloway]

You're exactly right. They weren't the first in the ipod. My colleague at NYU Stern is now at the tech school, Peter Golder. He taught me something that stuck with me that I thought was just a brilliant observation. And it's the focus of his research and that is the innovator doesn't win from a shareholder perspective. The innovator gets mud on their face and arrows in their back. It's the second mouse. It's the person that learns from the innovator who wastes a lot of capital and energy and comes in and it's the second mouse that gets the cheese. Apple has essentially built the most valuable company in the world now, number two on a second mouse strategy. And that is essentially Meta built this market, but Apple's going to collect the rent. And this is not a mixed reality Headset. That shit was like a prophylactic, right? That was just stupid. Just stupid. Meta has done the hard work. Ray Ban reportedly sold about 7 million units in 2025 and owns 85% of the category. And Apple is now entering after consumer behavior has already been validated. Apple is the most, is the most, most aspirational brand globally. It says I'm one of the 1 billion people who are the most creative and wealthy people on the planet. And it is the ultimate luxury item is an iPhone. In terms of ubiquity, globally, it means you can afford a twelve or fourteen hundred dollar piece of equipment that does the exact same thing a $300 or a free phone does. Because you consider yourself part of the creative class and you have some riz if you will, economically. So Palm built the smartphone market. BlackBerry validated it. Apple captured it.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

Fossil and Swatchbuild watches. Apple captured it.

[Kara Swisher]

Remember Onkyo, the first wireless earbuds? No, you don't.

[Scott Galloway]

I don't.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, they were. I had them. There were a whole bunch of early wireless earbuds and then Apple came in and stole it. But it was called Onkyo. I had them. There were a bunch before, before the AirPods that we showed A bunch of them at our conference.

[Scott Galloway]

This is what I think is going to happen. Meta spent tens of billions proving people will wear computers on their face. Apple will show up late, charge 40% more and take 80% of the profits here. And the mistake people make is that people think the Valley's greatest business model is invention. It's not, it's letting someone else prove demand.

[Kara Swisher]

Yep, yep, yep. Same thing with the AirPod they did. They weren't the first of those music devices. They just were the best. They'll come in with beautiful glasses. They're not going to need Ray Ban. They'll design something gorgeous and you'll want to wear them.

[Scott Galloway]

It'll look beautiful. And if it's distinctly Apple, you'll wear them. I'll wear, I'll buy it.

[Kara Swisher]

And you will totally have like 90 sets of them in your house because you'll lose them.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, look what I have here. One of my eight sets of AirPods that I consistently lose.

[Kara Swisher]

And. Yep, yep. And remember when AirPods were thought as ugly, when they, Anyway, this, they're gonna, they're gonna take this area, I think. And if they're, and if they shun. It has to be more than cameras. It's gotta give you information and talk to you and record things and everything else. It's gotta have more. I, I, I have a pair of the Ray Bans. I don't find them useful at all. I, I, I don't, I don't, I just don't.

[Scott Galloway]

It doesn't, People like them. My kid, my kids.

[Kara Swisher]

I do, but it doesn't work that well with my other, with my Apple store.

[Scott Galloway]

I will say it's like another one of the wearables that ends up in a drawer.

[Kara Swisher]

Yes, that's where it is. But I bet Apple could, if they could give me enough stuff to do with it, I'd rather like, because I use my AirPods now for everything. Like, I don't ever look at my phone, you know? Anyway. All right, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll talk about Trump quietly signing his AI executive order.

[Scott Galloway]

Have we underestimated the damage Trump has done?

[Kara Swisher]

It's easy, perhaps to chuckle at a Donald Trump. There are times when he's sort of campy. I think there are things that he does, you know, his little dance and some of the other kinds of things to come across as a rascal. But I think we have to look under those things at the real harm he has done to American institutions and the rule of law.

[Scott Galloway]

I'M Preet Bharara and this week former U.S. attorney Barb McQuaid joins me to discuss this administration's mob style governance and corruption. The episode is out now. Search and follow Stay tuned with Preet wherever you get your podcasts. Who is actually winning the war between Russia and Ukraine right now? It's clear that Ukraine is much more confident. Time now looks increasingly on Ukraine's side and there's no obvious reasons for them to negotiate a ceasefire in the near term just because the United States or somebody else wants it. I'm John Finer. And I'm Jake Sullivan and we're the hosts of the Long Game, a weekly national security podcast. This week we discuss the war in Ukraine with Michael Kaufman, one of the leading analysts of the conflict who recently returned from the front lines. The episode's out now. Search for and follow the Long Game wherever you get your podcasts.

[Kara Swisher]

Scott, we're back. President Trump has finally signed his AI executive order and it's a paler shade of white after scrapping a previous version at last minute a few weeks ago. The new order is scaled back version of the original. It asks AI companies to voluntarily submit their most powerful moderates to the government for review 30 days rather than I think it's 90 day review window. It was in an earlier version but Trump rejected that, saying it would get in the way of competition with China. The revised order comes after a White House meeting on Monday with Trump. Scott Bess and Pete HEGSETH and former AIs are David Sachs, who gave his blessing to the new timeline. David Sachs had gotten in the way of the previous one. I'll note Sam Altman is in D.C. this week making the rounds. It's just dumb. It's just it does not nothing. And that's my thoughts on it. Your thoughts?

[Scott Galloway]

Well, the elites in the Trump administration think the regulation is controversial, but you know who's ahead of them is the American public. Voters don't think it's controversial. This is one of the few issues where Republicans, Democrats, parents, unions and you know, churchgoers all agree. I think this is the next great populist movement, for better or for worse. It won't be any immigration or anti globalization. It'll be anti AI Kara. And this is an enormous opportunity for a Democrat or a Republican that figures out that the first person that really goes into a populist movement around regulating AI is going to have the political equivalent of beachfront property here. This is the next big populist movement.

[Kara Swisher]

Yep, I agree with you. I think that's absolutely true. I think you're 100% true. Anyway, it's a really interesting. But this one did nothing. This one did nothing. It's a big whole lot of nothing. And David Sacks got his way. Congratulations, David. There were others much more concerned in that administration and as well they should be. All right, Scott, one more quick break. We'll be back for predictions. Okay, Scott, let's hear a prediction. I shall go first. Just want to say Missouri is reducing state funding for Dolly Parton's Imagination Library and Early Childhood reading program that mails free books to children. My children get them. They're wonderful. And Dolly went on to complain about this online in a very friendly way. But this is a great program. And so reducing funding for kids getting books is the most idiotic thing I've ever seen. And I predict Dolly Parton will prevail here and the money will get to this group. Your thoughts, Scott?

[Scott Galloway]

Well, first, just a comment on that. I was watching Bill Maher and they asked Neil DeGrasse Tyson who, if aliens landed, who would you want to speak to that person or who would be best selected to speak to aliens? And he said a great mathematician would make a lot of sense because he said any alien that gets to Earth would understand math and that would be our common bridge in terms of vocabulary, which made a lot of sense to me. But I immediately thought, no joke, Dolly Parton. Send Dolly Parton.

[Kara Swisher]

Send Dolly fucking Parton.

[Scott Galloway]

She's super likable on a lot of levels. Kind of represents pretty well. The first that went into my mind is that if aliens show up and we need a spokesperson, send Dolly Parton.

[Kara Swisher]

I agree.

[Scott Galloway]

She can sing. She's likable.

[Kara Swisher]

She's smart.

[Scott Galloway]

Smart, charitable.

[Kara Swisher]

Tells a good story. Boobs.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, you know, I don't know. Has. I won't get into other attributes that kind of represent America, but she talks about them.

[Kara Swisher]

You can say boobs with her.

[Scott Galloway]

She talks about them anyways. But I thought, yeah, Dolly Parton, that's who should represent us.

[Kara Swisher]

When?

[Scott Galloway]

The end of the year.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, give her her book money, you fuckers in Missouri. Anyway, go ahead.

[Scott Galloway]

So my prediction is more boring. I think you're about to see the mother of all capital front running. What do I mean by that? That as everyone obsesses over the valuation of OpenAI, SpaceX and Anthropic, you're about to see Alphabet's already announced it. The next will be Amazon. Then it might be Nvidia, then it might be Apple. They're going to front run all these guys they're going to cut the line and say, you want to give cheap capital to companies in AI. Our company is lower risk, not as much upside, but much lower risk.

[Kara Swisher]

Google just did it.

[Scott Galloway]

Alphabet just announced an $80 billion offer. They're like, if there's a quarter of a trillion dollars out there of dumb money or cheap money looking to get into AI, they're cutting the line and they're gonna suck the oxygen or some of the oxygen out of the room

[Kara Swisher]

of the IPO market because you noted correctly, there's not enough money for all of these things.

[Scott Galloway]

I saw that from Alphabet yesterday. I'm like, oh my God, that's such fucking genius.

[Kara Swisher]

Explain what they're doing. They're raising money by.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, usually these companies will do a debt offering at this point because they typically access such cheap debt yet. But I think Alphabet said, my God, these guys, there's, there's people out there willing to invest at 20, 30, 100 times revenues to buy, go buy Nvidia chips and build out AI infrastructure. They're like, I think we'll take that. And so Alphabet, whose CEO or CFO is incredibly smart, said, no, we'll, we'll go get 80 billion of that cheap capital. And it's so smart. Smart. It's so kind of, if you will. And quite frankly, if I'm Apple, if I'm Alphabet, if I'm Alphabet and I have Gemini and I think, you know, OpenAI and anthropic are competitors, I'm just going to kick them in the nuts and I'm going to step on their oxygen line before we've even hooked them up, by the way.

[Kara Swisher]

They deserve it. They are as good, right? It's not like, why should they get

[Scott Galloway]

the money, Kara, they're better.

[Kara Swisher]

They're better.

[Scott Galloway]

There's less downside. These companies have robust.

[Kara Swisher]

Why shouldn't they get the money?

[Scott Galloway]

And they have great management teams. So they've basically lower risk. They're front running the IPOs here. I wish I'd thought of this. I think it's such genius. But my prediction is Alphabet's starting. I bet the CFOs of Apple, Microsoft, Coreweave, Nvidia have all got their pencils out and have said, let's get some of this. Why don't we go get some of that? Yeah, why don't we? If there's a quarter of a trillion dollars on the sidelines waiting to invest in AI, hey, come over here. Here.

[Kara Swisher]

I got an idea for you to my little store. And by the way, we have other businesses to support it if you.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah. And there's less downside here if things don't work out in AI. We still got YouTube and iPhones and we still got PowerPoint.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. Excellent. Okay, that's a great one. I love that. That's a great one. That's an excellent. That's a prediction. Anyway, we want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business, tech, or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com pivot submit a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT. Okay, that's. Thanks for listening to Pivot. Be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. Scott, congratulations on a tour with Ed Elson.

[Scott Galloway]

Thank you, Carol.

[Amanda Littman]

You did a great show.

[Kara Swisher]

It was really nice to.

[Scott Galloway]

Of course, you're a great partner. I really. You totally made the tour. So thank you.

[Kara Swisher]

Thank you. You deserve it. It was a great tour and it was really nice to see all your fans. They love you. Anyway, we'll be back next week.

[Scott Galloway]

Today's show was produced by Larry Nemenzoi, Marcus Taylor Griffin, and Todd Wiseman. Brandon McFarland engineered this episode. Thanks also to Brady and Dan Shalon. Nishat Kurwa is Vox Media's executive producer. Podcast. Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York magazine and Vox Media. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business care. Have a great weekend.