Anthropic's IPO, Platner's Campaign Controversies, and Blue Origin's Setback

Summary

Pivot – Episode Summary
Anthropic's IPO, Platner's Campaign Controversies, and Blue Origin's Setback
June 2, 2026 | Hosts: Kara Swisher & Scott Galloway

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Overview

In this episode, Kara and Scott delve into three major stories at the intersection of tech, politics, and business:

• The confidential IPO filing from Anthropic and its rise to "most valuable AI startup."
• The ongoing controversies swirling around Graham Platner's Senate campaign in Maine––from sexting allegations to an old Nazi-symbology tattoo.
• Blue Origin’s major rocket test failure, and what it means in the space race.

Throughout, their trademark banter, policy insight, and sharp cultural commentary remain focal points.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

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1. Graham Platner’s Campaign Controversies

(Starts ~05:56)

The News:

• With one week to Maine’s Senate primary, Democratic candidate Graham Platner faces leaked allegations of sexting multiple women, revealed by his wife to a campaign aide, now dropped by the campaign. Compounded by scrutiny over a Nazi symbol tattoo (since covered) and offensive old Reddit posts, Platner’s campaign is under fire.

Swisher's Take:

• Kara feels the public doesn’t care much about these personal scandals in the Trump era, emphasizing the nuance of political imperfection:
  • “It reminded me a little...of when Hillary Clinton [asked] ‘should I stand by my man’..." (06:53)
  • On imperfect allies: “Working with someone toward a shared goal does not require believing they are morally perfect...the goal itself matters enough to justify strategic alignment.” (11:33)
• She applauds Platner’s wife’s video defending both her husband and their marriage.

Galloway’s Take:

• Scott skewers the "personal purity" obsession in campaigns:
  • “Every election is a choice, not a marriage proposal. We’re not hiring a priest, we’re hiring a senator... If your house is on fire, you don't ask whether the firefighter has problematic DMs.” (08:54)
• He thinks voters and campaigns should stop with purity tests and focus on the issues and candidates’ actual leadership. He’s critical of the Platner campaign’s communications strategy:
  • "It's not the crisis that brings people down, it's their inability to own it. I fucked up." (10:07)
• On managing personal pasts: “If you want to keep applying purity tests, we end up with an incompetent running against a 9/11 denier in Los Angeles. We’re not going to have any candidates running.” (09:03)

Imperfect Allies & Forgiveness in Politics

(12:16–18:26)

• Kara explores the concept of “imperfect allies,” citing writer David Gate and Rep. Sarah McBride. They stress the importance of strategic alignment over absolute personal virtue.
• Scott relates this to social anxiety around digital permanence (12:38), suggesting the purity test culture is unsustainable in a world where everyone’s worst moments can be recorded.

Notable Quotes:

• Swisher: “There’s something to be said about people working it out...I think voters don’t care about this.” (07:48)
• Galloway: “The Democrats want to walk around and say, ‘Well, we have our dignity.’ Okay, hold on to your dignity as a 15 year old has her pelvis broken because she’s forced to carry a child to term. But, yeah, you kicked Platner out.” (14:12)

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2. The Future & Economics of Podcasting

(19:19–27:05)

The News:

• Self-help podcaster Jay Shetty lands a huge exclusive video deal with Spotify and Netflix (reportedly $100M+).

Industry Insight:

• Kara notes the growing convergence of podcast and TV economics, highlighting the advantages of the former for ad revenue and audience intimacy.
• Scott breaks down the unique economics and network effects at play:
  • “What [Jay Shetty] realized is the most valuable media asset in podcasting isn’t sports...It’s loneliness.” (20:16)
  • “Podcasts are TV for 10% of the production value or cost. ...55% of Americans have listened to a podcast recently.” (21:44)
  • Podcasting’s "dirty secret": RSS feeds give shows lasting distribution and high CPMs, building moats for longstanding creators.
  • “When Spotify, iHeart, Sirius and James Murdoch go looking for podcasts, there aren’t that many of scale.” (23:38)
• Both hosts advocate not listening to creators you dislike, rather than “hate-posting” about them.

Notable Quotes:

• Galloway: “[Jay Shetty] monetized the largest market in America: people who need a friend.” (20:16)
• Swisher: “Well, just don’t listen to him if you don’t like him. That’s my feeling on a lot of things.” (27:05)

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3. Anthropic’s Blockbuster IPO Filing

(29:41 Ad Break → 32:36 Real Discussion Begins)

The News:

• Anthropic files its confidential IPO, after a $65B valuation round that now positions it as the most valuable AI startup, surpassing OpenAI.

Breakdown:

• Kara reviews the numbers and context: Founding just five years ago, Anthropic’s rise is meteoric compared to OpenAI and others.
• Scott reiterates his earlier, correct prediction that Anthropic would overtake OpenAI:
  • “You have never seen a number two this viciously become the number one this fast.” (33:08)
  • “Google took 20 years to reach a trillion dollars. Anthropic got there in 5. ...It’s not capital formation, it’s financial teleportation.” (33:13)
• They highlight the speed and scale benefits of access to U.S. venture capital markets vs. those in Europe.

Risks & Bubble Concerns:

• Both see potential warning signs:
  • Galloway warns: “One or more of these stocks is going to be off 40–70%, and it’s going to send the US and the global economy into a recession....The technology will survive. These valuations won’t.” (34:40)
  • He calls out the “collective hallucination” around AI unicorns, noting that 93% of US GDP growth is now traced to AI capex: “When these companies [take a hit]...we’re going to catch fucking pneumonia.” (35:00)
• The “tokens more expensive than people” moment could arrive soon, as Mark Ewan presciently warned Kara to ask Dario Amodei (Anthropic’s CEO).

Notable Quotes:

• Kara: “It just keeps escalating...Frankly, I’m saying billion round – that values at 965 billion. Very close to the top.” (31:23)
• Scott: “We keep talking about how AI might transform the world. Maybe, maybe not. But it’s definitely transforming capital formation.” (33:17)
• Galloway: “The US market...is now concentrated. The entire US economy is a bet on 10 companies.” (36:54)

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4. America’s 250th Birthday (and Trump Brand Politics)

(39:41 Ad Break → 41:45 Begins)

The News:

• Trump ostentatiously shifts the America 250 festivities into a MAGA rally, following artist pullouts and partisan backlash.

Discussion:

• Kara and Scott view this less as breaking news, more as a symptom of American branding distortion.
• Galloway: “You could make an argument that the most successful consumer brand of the last decade isn’t Tesla, Apple, or Nike. It’s Trump.” (41:45)
• Kara indicates national disappointment: “I really liked the 200th [celebration]...I felt very proud of this country at the time. ...I feel like—why do you have to make everything so cheesy and grifty and gross?” (43:51)

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5. Blue Origin’s Launch Pad Explosion

(45:09)

The News:

• Blue Origin’s new Glenn rocket explodes on the pad, setting back efforts to compete with SpaceX in satellite launches.

Context & Insight:

• Swisher: “It's a real problem for the launch pad. They only had one for the big one. And for it to blow up on the launch pad—from what I understand...is bad. It should have blown up in the air…”
• Galloway contextualizes risk-taking for private v. public sector space launches:
  • “If NASA did this, there’s a feeling of government failure. ...You do need a certain number of explosions on the launch pad.” (47:30)
• Both discuss the stakes of the satellite race (Starlink’s thousands vs. Blue Origin’s hundreds), how only SpaceX has truly scaled, and how the economics of the rocket business remain elusive.

Notable Quotes:

• Galloway, on space PR: “They always call an explosion an anomaly. Which is like calling my divorce a scheduling conflict.” (46:58)
• Swisher: “All these people with all this money—Bezos, Musk—they really want to fly, don’t they?” (Implied tone)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Every election is a choice, not a marriage proposal...If your house is on fire, you don't ask whether the firefighter has problematic DMs.”
  — Scott Galloway (08:54)
• “The obsession with personal purity has become a luxury belief.”
  — Scott Galloway (09:03)
• “Podcasts are TV for 10% of the production value or cost.”
  — Scott Galloway (21:44)
• “Google took 20 years to reach a trillion dollars. Anthropic got there in 5. ...It’s not capital formation, it’s financial teleportation.”
  — Scott Galloway (33:13)
• “It just keeps escalating...Anthropic, which was founded five years ago, has beaten the valuation in half the time. Did anyone see this coming? Scott Galloway did.”
  — Kara Swisher (32:36)
• “If NASA had an explosion, it's a government failure. If Blue Origin does, it's a necessary risk of innovation.”
  — Scott Galloway (47:30)

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Segment Timestamps

• 05:56 Platner’s campaign scandals and political culture of “purity tests”
• 11:33 Kara reads from David Gate on imperfect allies
• 14:12 Galloway on Democratic self-sabotage (ref. Al Franken, purity tests)
• 19:19 Jay Shetty’s $100M+ deal and the podcast/video business
• 23:38 Podcast audience economics, RSS feeds, and ad dollars
• 32:36 Anthropic’s IPO: history, scale, and bubble warnings
• 35:00 AI/Tech valuations and macro risks
• 41:45 The politicization of America’s 250th birthday
• 45:09 Blue Origin rocket explosion and analysis
• 53:43 Wins and Fails (each host’s closing thoughts)

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Wins & Fails

Wins:

• Kara: Theo Baker—young investigative journalist’s promising career and new book How to Rule the World. “The kids are fucking all right.” (54:53)
• Scott: Eli Lilly’s rise as a trillion-dollar pharmaceutical company, and the impact of GLP-1 drugs. “I think GLP1 is going to be a more important technology than AI.” (57:22)

Fails:

• Kara: Political culture’s fixation on personal failings (“purity tests”) rather than competence or values, especially in the Platner case. (55:34)
• Scott: Candidates' and campaigns’ failure to own their issues—with Platner as prime example. “Own it. ...I’ve made mistakes. …All [the campaign] has done is kept it alive by denying and attacking the media.” (60:36)

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Tone & Style

• Conversational, incisive, equal parts contemplative and biting—retaining the hosts’ sharp, frank manner.
• Banter is woven through intense policy/culture analysis (“Get your mitts off my imperfect ally!” – Kara, 60:18).
• Touches of self-deprecation (Scott’s “I am a patsy”) and meta-commentary on the media/politics business.

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Final Takeaway

The episode offers a masterclass in navigating scandals, tech hype cycles, and socio-political branding in 2026 America. Swisher and Galloway call for focus on substance over spectacle, humility over performative outrage, and adaptation in economics and culture as technology and media rapidly evolve.

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Transcript

[Kara Swisher]

What's up, y'? All? I'm Skylar Diggins, seven time WNBA all star, Olympic gold medalist and mom.

[Cassidy Hubbard]

And I'm Cassidy Hubbard, host and reporter for nearly 20 years, covering the biggest

[Kara Swisher]

names and stories in sports and mom. And this is and Mom. A community for athletes, game changers, and moms of all kinds. Dropping May 14th. Tap in with us.

[Scott Galloway]

This episode is brought to you by the Build Podcast, a new podcast from the guys behind Sincera, Michael Sullivan and Ian Myers. Mike and Ian built their company by figuring out clever solutions to a few important ad tech problems in their industry. And that philosophy is exactly what this show is all about. In it, they interview some of the smartest tech minds in the biz to hear about how they identified opportunities, solved their hardest challenges, and grew their businesses in the process. Listen to the Build with Michael Sullivan wherever you get your podcasts. Support for the show comes from coreweave. Everywhere you look, AI is expanding what we thought was possible. And at the center of it all is coreweave. Medical research and document, diagnosis, education, complex visual effects for movies, science and technology breakthroughs. Core Weave powers AI pioneers around the world with purpose built tech building what's never been built before. CoreWeave is the essential cloud for AI. Ready for anything. Ready for AI to learn more about how CoreWeave powers the world's best AI, go to coreweave.com readyfor anything. You definitely have a distinct style now. It's awful, but it's distinct.

[Kara Swisher]

Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast network. I'm Kara Swisher.

[Scott Galloway]

And I'm Scott Galloway.

[Kara Swisher]

Scott, you're still on the road. How's it going?

[Scott Galloway]

Good. San Francisco was good. Louisiana was great with Ted Sarandos. Miami was good. Love Miami.

[Kara Swisher]

You're in Chi town and now in.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, what do you call it? The city of Big Shoulders.

[Kara Swisher]

Yes.

[Scott Galloway]

We always love being here. Chicago is always. It's the most grateful little big city in the world. It is like. I just know it's gonna go well tonight. Cause they're like, thank you for coming here.

[Kara Swisher]

I know. It's like Minneapolis, right? It's Minneapolis.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah. I'm just so happy. And I went to a steakhouse last night with my closest friend Adam, since the fourth grade.

[Kara Swisher]

Chicago is one of my favorite cities. It's really a lovely place. I like all cities. What am I talking about? I like all cities. I love Chicago. I always am happy to be there. And then you'll be in New York. How exciting is that? The last stop on your parade tomorrow night at else parade.

[Scott Galloway]

And we've got a couple. We have by far our most impressive guests who shall go nameless. But I'm super excited about that. Sold out, a big theater. So.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. Is that the final one? Is that the final one?

[Scott Galloway]

That's the last one.

[Kara Swisher]

Yay. Well, how exciting. How good. Get ready to do it in the fall with me. Aren't you excited? But it's not for a while. It's not for a while. You'll have some resting time. Anyway. I had a nice weekend of children's activities. Children's activities. Like Saul has left his preschool. So we had all his friends from preschool over for a giant run around the yard and scream party with tiny bagels. I had another one last night. Another Barbie. I cleaned the outdoors, Scott. I'm like one of these. And then I ended up having. I'm one of these people that does the yard. Essentially. I had to get it ready for the summer. And I end up having discussions with other dads about yard things like different landscaping, different construction things. So I really am the dad I recognize this weekend.

[Scott Galloway]

So just so you know, yard work is basically. It has nothing to do with the yard work. It's about escaping your family.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, is it?

[Scott Galloway]

You gotta, you gotta figure this shit out. You're not, first off, you're not. It's not that you're into yard work. You just want away from the house.

[Kara Swisher]

No, it's actually, it's not because my kids help me. I have my kids do it with me. And so we fill the bird feeders. I have a different. We fill the kiddie pool. We do the sprinklers together. You know, I have sol. I have them carry bags of birdseed. So I employ my children into this and they do a good job. They do a great job. I have to.

[Scott Galloway]

My friend Chris Nelson down in Florida was saying how he taught his son over the weekend how to use. What are those? Like, they look like a chainsaw, but use them to mow a hedge. A shear. I don't even know what they're called.

[Kara Swisher]

Shears. Electric shears.

[Scott Galloway]

Shears. Not scissors, but like electric.

[Kara Swisher]

No, they're called shears. Electric shears.

[Scott Galloway]

Okay. So he said he taught his eight year old son how to do that. I thought, I'm such a bad dad. Like, I'm so incompetent. I don't know how to. My kids aren't going to know how to do anything.

[Kara Swisher]

I teach my kids how to do. We did the hoses, we replaced all the Hoses. I do everything with the kids.

[Scott Galloway]

I got an electric shear and I took my son out back, and one of us almost lost a hand. And I'm like, there's a reason. Reason I don't teach this stuff.

[Kara Swisher]

You know, if you want to come to my yard, I will teach you.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, that sounds really appealing.

[Kara Swisher]

The other thing I'm doing this week, besides some Tribeca stuff and this and that is I'm going to be guest host of the View.

[Scott Galloway]

I love that. I think that's perfect for you.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. Too. I love the Whoopi Goldberg. I like the whole team.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, They're. By the way, they give great tv. That is. That is an outstanding. They.

[Kara Swisher]

You've been great on it. You've had a. You've had great times when you're there.

[Scott Galloway]

They're so nice to me, and I like the mix. And they used to bring in, like, a dumb Republican that they could all scream at. Kind of what CNN does. Let's bring on a racist and have a bunch of B league progressives scream at them. That's the, The, The. The formula there. They now have smart conservatives.

[Kara Swisher]

Alyssa. Alyssa Farah. Yeah, she's great. She's great. I love her.

[Scott Galloway]

I think they've done a great job.

[Kara Swisher]

What should I wear?

[Scott Galloway]

You definitely have a distinct style now. It's awful, but it's distinct.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, I am a guest host of the View. I think I'll be good. It'd be interesting. I really always have a good time there. Everyone's like, oh, the declining broadcast. I'm like, that's a good show. That's a solidly fucking good show.

[Scott Galloway]

Nothing, just as an author, nothing moves books like, in general, podcasts. But if you're looking for quick hits,

[Kara Swisher]

View and Bill Maher.

[Scott Galloway]

The View, Bill Maher. And actually a close third would be Morning Joe. A lot of people still watch Morning Joe anyway.

[Kara Swisher]

Anyhow. Well, anyway, let's get to the news. Yeah, I'm excited. I'm going to try not to make a penis joke. With just a week to go before Maine's speaking of penises, Maine Senate primary Graham Platner, the presumptive Democratic candidate, is facing his latest controversy. Multiple outlets reported over the weekend that Platner's wife told a campaign aide last year that her husband sent sexually explicit texts to several women outside the marriage. By the way, this campaign person had a falling out with Platner and has dropped a dime, which is. Has its own ethical considerations. Platner is calling these reports gossip from a former staffer and accused the media of journalistic malpractice. As of this recording, none of the women involved in the text exchanges have come forward. Wife Amy Gertner released a video which I thought was fascinating over the weekend defending her husband and their marriage. Let's listen because it was really quite something to listen to. It makes me really angry, disappointed, and I find it really shameful that there's a group of media outlets and people who are willing to to spread gossip instead of talking about real issues that Graham is running on like health care and education and childcare. As I said, it's the, you know, this has been a controversial campaign. You know, he reportedly has an active account on kicks a private message up, sometimes used for sexing. He's faced scrutiny, of course, about his Nazi symbol tattoo. He later expressed regret and covered it up. There were posts from a deleted Reddit account reset all manner of sexual jokes about sexual assault. And he's also apologized for that. It's a really interesting issue and lots of people disagree on this. I'll tell you what I think in a second. But Platner appears to be the real chance of unseating Republican Susan Collins and is the zombie of all senators he's been leading in recent polls. I personally, I'm going to just very quickly say I think voters don't care about this. I don't. And I thought his wife handled it well. I have others. I had an argument with Amanda this weekend. She doesn't like the Nazi tattoo. She doesn't like this. I feel as if the husband and wife are working it out. It reminded me a little when Hillary Clinton should I stand by my man when he had those Jennifer Flowers things. Reminds me a little bit of that. Turned out to be a pretty good president. And not everything. Not of course, the Monica Lewinsky stuff, but it's a really interesting question. I don't get bothered by it as much. None of it. I think he's in. He's, as Amanda Littman correctly said, he's someone who had a drinking problem as a Marine, probably got that tattoo, has mental health challenges which he's trying to overcome. Marriage problems which his wife is insisting they're going to counselors and overcoming. I'm not so sure in the era of Trump this matters at all. So what do you think?

[Scott Galloway]

Look, okay, every election is a choice. Every not a marriage proposal. We're not hiring a priest, we're hiring a senator. Do you think that. Do you want to make sure that women's rights aren't continue to be rolled Back. Do you want a more responsible economic policy? Do you want different approaches to labor that raise the wages of nurses and students? Do you want something regarding fiscal sanity? Do you want to stop, have a check against the unfettered, unprecedented corruption? But we're going to talk about tattoos and sexting. I mean, the obsession with personal purity has become a luxury belief. And, folks, if your house is on fire, you don't ask whether the firefighter has problematic DMs. Now, having said that, the comms person for the Platner campaign should be fired. You don't go after media. You don't say, this is gossip. You don't say, these are texts. He said it was. It was journalistic malpractice. Guess what? These texts are accurate.

[Kara Swisher]

Right?

[Scott Galloway]

The reporting has been accurate.

[Kara Swisher]

Good for you, Scott.

[Scott Galloway]

The response should be the following. I am an imperfect man. I have demonstrated terrible judgment on several occasions in my marriage, and I have a great marriage. What about you? What about you that. Are we going to continue to have one strike and you're out? I'm a Jew. I don't love a Tottenkampf tattoo, okay? If he gets drunk one night and gets a stupid fucking tattoo, the fact that he's trying to protect our liberties, the next day, it might be blown up by an ied. He gets a hall pass. So, okay, folks, if you want to keep applying purity tests, we end up with an incompetent running against a 911 denier in Los Angeles. We're not going to have any candidates running. So, one, stop the purity tests. And two, the Platner campaign. It's not the crisis that brings people down, it's their inability to own it. I fucked up.

[Kara Swisher]

Did you watch his wife's thing? I thought it was. It reminded me a lot of the Hillary. Remember when Hillary Clinton and Bill sat down, when they sat down together on 60 Minutes? Yeah. It was really interesting to me. It had a lot of echoes of that. I thought you. Someone said to me, like, oh, she looks like someone whose wife's in denial. I'm like, no, I think she seems to not be in denial. She understands his problems. And I think it just reminded me a great deal of that. And there's, you know, as a person you can have. As a personal thing, you can have comments about people on a political thing. I'm like, I want to talk about this idea of imperfect allies that you and I have talked about. Obviously, I'd heard it first from Sarah McBride, but over representative Sarah McBride, who has plenty of reasons to be Angry to people. And isn't she? A writer named David Gate posted about it on Substack. Let me read a quote. Working with someone toward a shared goal does not require believing they are morally perfect. Requires believing the goal itself matters enough to justify strategic alignment. He goes on to say the planet is on fire. Well, as you noted just now Scott, while many people are still conducting background checks on one another's vibes. So talk about that concept because it's a really difficult one for many people, people to get around this guy. Many people supported him. Others were like no, we have to like have background checks. So what do you think about that? Can people get to that idea of I guess forgiving people for their imperfections

[Scott Galloway]

or One of the reasons we're seeing a crash in birth rates is a lack of dancing. And that is dancing is a key component or a key mating ritual. And when you dance typically it helps if you drink a little bit. The anti alcohol movement is hurting it but more than anything. And there was a wonderful TikTok on this by some young man and I thought God this is so powerful. People have a camera on them all the time. 19 year old men don't want to dance because they're worried about or they don't, they don't want to take risks like dancing. Like approaching a romantic, a potential expressing romantic interest because they're worried one false move and you're out Everything in a digital world. So unless we move to at least some basic notion of as our digital world increases and everything we've done is going to be recorded and potentially used against us unless we have a little bit more grace and okay, what's interesting here is that I just hope the same thing holds and that is if the Republicans decide the best candidate for a Senate seat in Texas is someone whose wife divorced him on biblical grounds.

[Kara Swisher]

If they can and who has a history of.

[Scott Galloway]

And if we can decide that this guy can have his finger on the button and be the most powerful person in the world while he's banging adult movie stars while his wife is home nursing. And to a certain extent I'm kind of like I don't care if the pilot is a good person. I want someone who's really good at flying the fucking plane.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

So I think the same thing needs to go to our politics. I just hope that the same what I'll call focus on perceived effectiveness is the same for Democrats. And I am still rip shit angry at Senator Gillibrand who thought a 7 minute run for president was worth kicking. Senator Al Franken out. The Democrats want to walk around and say, well, we have our dignity. Okay, hold on to your dignity. As a 15 year old has her pelvis broken because she's forced to carry a child to term. But, yeah, you kicked Platner out.

[Kara Swisher]

Is there something that there should be a line like, Obviously, I think at some point. Yeah, Yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

I mean, let me put it this way. If Graham Platner was, you know, it ended up that he was kind of fond of wearing a white hood and was constantly engaging in anti Semitic behavior, then that. That. That tattoo isn't an errant mistake from a youthful soldier. It's a pattern. The corruption of the Trump family is a pattern. This is not. This is. This speaks to their character. But, folks, all of us have made mistakes. I mean, okay, Barack Obama doesn't appear. We can't seem to find a mistake on President Obama.

[Kara Swisher]

I can, but. Good.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, okay, but you know what I mean. Or scandal. Powerful men are under the illusion that they mistake kindness for sexual interests. And as they become more powerful, power corrupts. And they're more likely to believe that they're immune from standard norms and engage in stupid, stupid, reckless behavior. By the way, more women do that than they get credit for. I will argue that it infects a lot more men than women, but, you know, Secretary Noem was banging her number two on government property, so, yeah, she

[Kara Swisher]

did a lot of work for that. Yes, she counts her 10 men, I have to say.

[Scott Galloway]

But, oh, man, look, I don't. I saw this and I was like, okay, at what point? At what point, I'm hoping we've passed the purity test on the Democratic side. But more than anything, I want to call the Platner campaign and say, own it.

[Kara Swisher]

Stop attacking. Yes, stop attacking the president.

[Scott Galloway]

Don't say it's gossip or it's not accurate reporting. It's been corroborated.

[Kara Swisher]

I think the point they were trying to make is, shouldn't we be focusing on the important issues? And that's all they needed to say. I think the SEC first part should have been removed. Right. Just say, you know what? We get why people might stare at this. It feels like a traffic accident, and it kind of is. But let's focus on the real matters. I have a question. Do you think we're imperfect allies?

[Scott Galloway]

Imperfect allies?

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, like people. You don't always agree with everything, and yet their allies.

[Scott Galloway]

I think you. I think that. I mean, the reality is, Kara, is I'm a. We're both progressives.

[Kara Swisher]

And the fact that we tend to disagree on things.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, yeah. Where the real progress needs to be is between moderate Democrats and moderate Republicans. I mean, if the two, you know, on almost every major issue, you and I are within 2 basis points of each other sometimes in terms of actually what we believe. We might believe in tech, you know, we might have differences around text and tone or whatever. But what we really need, I mean, a couple of things. One, I think this is. We have to, from a young age, start thinking. All right, folks, unless you want to live a life with a fake user account and VPN for fear you ever do anything wrong, we're going to have to demonstrate more grace with each other. The Democrats applying these purity tests to themselves. It's just like the Republicans are just laughing. That we would do.

[Kara Swisher]

It's kind of like, people be naughty. Like people be naughty.

[Scott Galloway]

Have at it. But the thing that really the Planner campaign, Graham Platner, should do the following. I've demonstrated terrible judgment numerous times.

[Kara Swisher]

He has. On other issues.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, numerous times. In my professional and personal life. I've also served my country. I think I'd be a great senator. And by the way, I have a fantastic marriage. So have at it, folks, if you want to engage in this stuff. I realize it's titillating. Have at it. All he's doing and his campaign are doing is keeping the story alive by denying it and by attacking the media.

[Kara Swisher]

I don't think there's anything wrong with the media reporting this because, well, I do have a. I have to say, I'd like to know. I'd like to know a little more about this campaign person who keeps dropping dimes on this guy and what her agenda is. I have to say, she's been doing it a lot. She wants to. She's angry, she's mad. And I want to know. I'd like to know about her in specifics also. That's what I would say the media needs to do a little bit more of because I need to understand what the source's motivations are. And she's not here to protect us, I don't think. Anyway, let's move on. Self help podcaster Jay Shetty has signed a deal to bring a video version of his show exclusively to Spotify and Netflix. Another one of these deals, which is interesting. The deal is reportedly worth over $100 million over multiple years. Who knows? Shetty and his previous partner, iheartmedia parted ways. They could not come to terms. This is something happening, obviously. Scott and I went through a bunch of these. Not this amount of money but it's a really interesting.

[Scott Galloway]

I hate to break it to you, but over five years, we're getting more than this.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, okay.

[Scott Galloway]

And that's why we're imperfect allies. I'm bank.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. We're pretty high on the news list this week. I was noticing we're moving up. We still haven't passed Megyn Kelly, but we will.

[Scott Galloway]

We're coming for you, Megan.

[Kara Swisher]

We're coming for you, Megan. And not like that way in any way physically or just.

[Scott Galloway]

No. In the Apple podcast rankings.

[Kara Swisher]

The Apple podcast rankings, let's be clear. So you don't make a show out of it. So, but talk about these deals, because they're really. Because you can't go on YouTube. It's all of them, right? Is that. And he did it the normal way, which is an Iheart deal. You could do those. There's a bunch of companies like this. But now this is for Spotify and Netflix, which is interesting. And Spotify had tried, you know, the Rogan thing, obviously, and they signed a bunch of deals that didn't work out, you know, and so talk a little bit about this. What do you. How do you look at this market right now? And what do these indicate to you?

[Scott Galloway]

Well, first off, let me just say with. With Jay, I'm really happy for him. I don't know him well, but I know him. I've been on his podcast a couple times. I think he's a lovely man, and I think he does a good job. And essentially, what he realized is the most valuable media asset in podcasting isn't sports like it is on cable tv. It's loneliness. He figured how to monetize the largest market in America. And that is people who need a friend. And so, okay, so I'm happy for Jay. I think he does a great job. And by the way, I cannot get over. And I think it's total bullshit. All the hate that Jay and Mel Robbins get, they get a lot. And it's just like, okay, don't listen to their podcasts. They're not bad.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, that's how I feel. I'm not a big fan of. I mean, I like Mel personally, but I just. I get why people find it annoying. It's a little bit much.

[Scott Galloway]

Fine, then don't listen to it.

[Kara Swisher]

I was literally in an elevator and someone says, do you know Mel Robbins? I find her very annoying. I'm like, like, okay, then don't listen. That's what I said of nothing.

[Scott Galloway]

If you go on TikTok. I mean, the reality is, any best Selling author. If you say bestselling author is full of shit, you get elevated in the the rating. So people are shit. Posting every bestselling author to get another 70 bucks from, from fucking TikTok. Have at it. But I've never understood the hate for Jay and Mel. I think they're both nice people doing their best, doing good work. And if you don't like their work, which I understand, it's not for everybody, you know, the whole kind of monk self help gets a little.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, no, I don't, I'm not a fan of the self help stuff.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, fine, then don't listen. That's fine. Yeah, but there's two things here. This dynamic that's colliding is the following. The fastest growing ad supported medium is not even, it's not even YouTube in terms of revenue or meta. It's podcasts. They think the. I think the ad revenue is going to be up 21% this year in podcasting. In addition, 40% of, I think about 20% of ours and 40% of profit G Markets pods are watched or listened to on a TV because they're streamed off of YouTube. So essentially what a podcast is, it's a television show for 10% of the production value or cost. So the means of production of TV is being arbed into podcasting. And now 55% of Americans have listened to a podcast recently. So in addition, the intimacy of the relationship advertisers really like. And the CPMs for pivot are $45, the CPMs for CNN are 13. And then you combine it with the following. There's this dirty secret of podcasting called the RSS feed. And slowly but surely you build up subscribers. And every time a show comes out, it's automatically downloaded to an iPhone and it's counted as a listen. So the people who've been in it for three, five, 10 years, as you have, who have built large RSS feeds have moats. So what you have is a series of acquirers going, we need growth. Let's go find a podcast. And a small number of podcasts that actually have large RSS feeds because you cannot, you know, when Landman comes out, it's a hit overnight. It's hard for a podcast. If you look at the top 10 podcasts, even in any category, they're usually the original gangsters or they're people who've been around for a while.

[Kara Swisher]

You're absolutely right.

[Scott Galloway]

So you have demand and you have sequestered or pretty big moats, which all adds up to large acquisition prices. Relative to their revenues. I bet Jay does 10 to 20 million a year. So he's getting sold at 10 to 5 times revenues, which is a lot. But you're about to see. And we've been predicting this and I'm talking our own book here, but I've been saying this for the last two years. There just aren't. When Spotify, iHeart, Sirius and James Murdoch go looking for podcasts, there aren't that many of scale.

[Kara Swisher]

It is the cost structure and which people don't understand. And it is television because our YouTube audience revenues are growing pretty smartly. And it's a really interesting way to deliver news. It's what people want, which is why seeing the podification of network news, I just don't think it's going to work. I think you either just have to go this way or not. I don't think you can switch that audience over because they're older and they like the way it is. So you're going to see these declines like you see at cbs because they don't like the new stuff you're doing. It's kind of just like a. You need to do a hard reset with a lot of this stuff. But I agree, I think it's interesting and they can actually usually make the money back. But the foregoing of YouTube versus Netflix is a really interesting. And it'll depend on what your product is at any one time, whether you want to sort of be in the safe harbor of Netflix, Spotify, or you want to be out in the open in a YouTube, Google world, essentially, which I. People can mix and match too, by the way, which is what's great about it, right?

[Scott Galloway]

Presumably all the most powerful.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, I'm seeing your giant hand there. Look at that. Keep. Put your big hand up there. Oh, oh.

[Scott Galloway]

I'm very self conscious of my hands. I have my mother's hands. They're not. They're my hands. In the competition for my worst feature. It is the Olympics. I mean, it is. There's a lot of competitors, but my hands are right up there. I'm very self conscious of my hands. That's why I don't wear jewelry. They're perfectly nice. Anyways, so Netflix, I think is the most powerful media company in the world, or traditional media company. And they're getting into podcasting and overnight they're going to be able to. Whoever they decide to distribute or acquire overnight that podcast is going to be. I mean, they'll be the new king and queen makers of podcasting.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, I thought it was bad News for iheart, I'll tell you that.

[Scott Galloway]

I think that's right. I don't think iHeart. IHeart is a company that's gone, I think, through bankruptcy once or twice. And they have to be economically rational. They don't have access to cheap capital. So they. If iheart shows up and Spotify and Netflix show up to a bidding war, I don't know who wins. I just know iheart loses. Iheart can't justify the valuations. These guys can justify, you know, if, you know, even a serious. Basically, I think you're gonna see Spotify and Netflix take the whole value of the podcast ecosystem up. And not only that, if your podcast does a 10 million downloads a month, you're worth four times the podcast that does 5 million. Because it is so hard in this environment to find scale. It's very similar to cable TV in the sense that there's a small number of personalities who extract the majority of the economics. And it's the same in podcasting. Absolutely. But I want to finish where I started. I'm really happy for Jay. I like it when people. He's been in the business for 10 years. He's a nice man.

[Kara Swisher]

He has worked at it. Yeah, he has worked at it.

[Scott Galloway]

Good for him.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. Well, just don't listen to him if you don't like him. That's my feeling on a lot of things.

[Scott Galloway]

That's right. He and I have been sexting.

[Kara Swisher]

And related news on Kicks. Kicks is a journey. Let me just tell you. He's dreamy.

[Scott Galloway]

He has the most beautiful eyes.

[Kara Swisher]

Wagner definitely picked the dirty one. I'll just say he picked the dirty one. Kicks is. Is dirty.

[Scott Galloway]

I don't know anything about. How would you even know that? I don't know any of these sites

[Kara Swisher]

because I know all these sites. I don't use any of them.

[Scott Galloway]

Really. Do you go on and talk about. Do you offer other to. To power wash other lesbians backyard? You little saucy minx, you.

[Kara Swisher]

Scott, I fixed my power washer this weekend. I was very excited.

[Scott Galloway]

Anyway, so just on that note, before we go, I think the new thing, a guy asked me for dating advice and he's like, I'm never going to graduate from college. What will I ever be able to find a woman? And I'm like, I think the new sexy is blue collar romance. And that is no poetry. Don't send a car for her. Fix her fucking refrigerator. I think that gets women really hot. Look at a woman's stressors and treat them like they're your enemy, fill up her car with gas.

[Kara Swisher]

All right. Okay.

[Scott Galloway]

I think if you want to get a woman, I think humor is the ultimate aphrodisiac with women behind maybe money. But I think a decent runner up is to look at a woman acts of service. And if you know how to fix shit, you know, move your girlfriend, show up and fix the air conditioner. Like attack her problems like they're your enemies.

[Kara Swisher]

I like it. Self help from Scott Galloway. Okay, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, big IPO news from Anthropic

[Scott Galloway]

Support for the show comes from Better Help. For some, summer is the best season. Travel picks up, kids are out of school, and adventure fills our days. For others, juggling it all can be tough. Long, busy that can lead to an overwhelming feeling of exhaustion and counting down the minutes until the kids are back in school. It's not uncommon for people to worry they're wasting the days of sunshine. That's why it's important to take a step back and take care of yourself during the busy summer season. Therapy can help you slow down and understand your needs. And you can start with BetterHelp. With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform, having served over 6 million people globally. They do the initial matching work for you so you can focus on your therapy goals. Just fill out a short questionnaire to identify your needs and preferences and they'll match you with a licensed professional. If you ever want to switch for any reason, you can do that at any time. You don't have to say yes to everything. This summer, find support in therapy. Sign up and get 10% [e-mail] pivot that's better h e l p.com pivot

[Kara Swisher]

support for this podcast and the following message is brought to you by E Trade from Morgan Stanley. Now that E Trade is part of Morgan Stanley, there's even more to love. Get the freedom to invest on your own with $0 commissions on stocks, options, ETFs and mutual funds, plus account types for every investor. And when you're ready, speak with a pro to help guide you on your financial journey. Discover more ways to make the most of your money and get up to $1,000 when you open a brokerage account with a qualifying deposit today. Learn [e-mail] offer terms and fees apply. Investing involves risk. Morgan Stanley Smith Barney, LLC Member SIPIC E Trade is a business of Morgan Stanley. Support for this show comes from Delete Me. It's never too late to Start protecting your online privacy. My wake up call When I looked at the dashboard of Delete Me and saw how much crap was out there about me and a lot of my personal information, all collected in really strange and weird ways by a lot of of companies, I had no idea who they were and made me feel like that I was being stalked. I discovered a lot of inaccuracies also at the same time and I found an enormous amount of information about my life for dozens of years. So if you've ever thought I should really be doing something to protect myself from stalkers, scammers and hackers, but you're not sure what, here's what you do. Go to joindeleteme.com pivot and enter the code pivot. You'll get 20% off DeleteMe. DeleteMe removes your personal information that's being sold online. You can get an individual plan for a little over $8 per month with an annual plan. And discounts get even better with a two year plan or whenever you enroll your partner or family. Take control of your data and keep your private life private by signing up for Deleteme now at a special discount for our listeners. Get 20% off your Delete Me plan when you go to JoinDeleteMe.com pivot and use the promo code PIVOT at checkout. The only way to get 20% off is to go to JoinDeleteMe.com pivot now enter code pivot at checkout. That's JoinDeleteMe.com pivot codepivot. Scott, we're back with breaking news. Anthropic just confidentially filed its IPO with the sec. It has not disclosed the size or terms of the offering. I'm excited for you to read it for me and tell me what's in there. But before that, Anthropic hit a major milestone last week, passing OpenAI to become the most valuable AI startup in the world. The company announced a $65 billion funding round. I frankly, I'm saying billion round. That values at 965 billion. Very close to the top. To put things in perspective, OpenAI announced a $730 billion valuation back in February, but it took the company to around a decade to reach that number. It just keeps escalating. Anthropic, which was founded five years ago, has beaten the valuation in half the time. Did anyone see this coming? Scott Galloway did. Let's listen to Scott's prediction from February

[Scott Galloway]

as we sit here today. I actually think that Anthropic, or in the next 12 months. This is one of our predictions, is going to be worth more than OpenAI.

[Kara Swisher]

Very well done. What does this valuation mean for Anthropic's IPO as well as OpenAI and SpaceX? By the way, SpaceX is now targeting an IPO evaluation of $1.8 trillion after feedback from advisors and investors, according to Bloomberg. That's a step down from the initially reported 2 trillion. It's still too much anyway. Thoughts? What do you think? You got that one right. And we'll be looking at the filing when we get to be able to see it, but we don't know a lot yet.

[Scott Galloway]

I don't think any company in the world has the momentum right now of Anthropic. And it was built a genius move. They went after the enterprise market and I mean, the pivot. You have never seen a number two this viciously become the number one this fast. Yeah, you've never seen Hertz overtake, you know, you've never seen Avis overtake Hertz this fast. You've never seen Pepsi overtake Coke like this, this fast. And the thing that's so impressive about this isn't the valuation, it's the Speed. Google took 20 years to reach a trillion dollars. Anthropic got there in five. It was founded in 2021. And if it had been founded in Amsterdam, it would be one of the five most valuable companies in Europe. And it did it in five years. I mean, it's not capital formation, it's financial teleportation. Five years, zero to a trillion dollars. So we keep talking about how AI might transform the world. Maybe, maybe not, but it's definitely transforming capital formation. And I mean, the one advantage America has is that we will do these $60 billion rounds after two or three years. And in Europe, they just don't have that type of capital formation.

[Kara Swisher]

I want you to give me the downside because you definitely called this. But what would be the worry for you of maybe all three IPOs or this one? What would be the warning signs or something you would pay attention to because you're not always fully up and to the right as a person?

[Scott Galloway]

These stocks and the collective hallucination around the valuations here, one or more of these stocks is going to be off 40 to 70% and it's going to send the US and the global economy into a recession. The US has become a giant bet on AI and these companies are overvalued. The technology will survive. These valuations won't. There's just. I'm sorry, SpaceX at 100 times revenues, you know, OpenAI at what's going on at 20. Every big company we follow has in the last 10 years been off between 40 and 70% in a 12 month period. That's fine. That's part of the cycle of high growth companies up and down. The difference here is that we've embed the entire economy on these magnificent 10. 93% of our GDP growth is coming from AI capex. So when these companies, you know, they always say if the American economy sneezes, the world catches a cold, we're going to catch fucking pneumonia. When the expectations. An MIT professor just came out with a study saying 95% of CFOs aren't seeing the ROI on their investments in AI.

[Kara Swisher]

As we noted last week with the Uber COO. Right, talking about it, about the investment.

[Scott Galloway]

The danger here is the following, folks. I think Anthropic is the only one of these three that has a reasonable shot at trading above its IPO price 12 months out. There's just gravity. No basketball player has ever been in the air for more than one second. For some reason, one second is the limit. None of these companies can justify their valuation unless they are able to literally destroy the labor market. I just got off a podcast with the CEO of Lilly and I. I said AI as it relates to drug discovery. Underhyped or overhyped? This is a measure guy and he's like overhyped. The incentives from Amazon that the more more tokens you use, the more will compensate you. That shit's about to go away. And the first big company that announces we're cutting back our AI spending, you know, you're going to see the GDP of Germany come out of the market. And unfortunately the US market, you know,

[Kara Swisher]

we used to say is frothy because of that.

[Scott Galloway]

Because of that, we're now concentrated. The entire U.S. economy is a bet on 10 companies.

[Kara Swisher]

You know, I have to say, months ago, Mark Ewan said there's going to be a point where tokens are being more expensive than people like. And he wanted me to ask Dario that question.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, yeah, it's a great question.

[Kara Swisher]

He was like, I was interviewing him at an off site thing and he's like, that's the question. When do people cost less than tokens and tokens are getting too expensive, which is interesting. Anyway, we'll see what happens, but I'm excited for you to read it for me. All right, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, some Updates on America's 250th celebration. Support for this show comes from Bolan Branch. The quality of your sleep affects everything energy, mood, focus and overall health. That's why it's extra important to assess your sleep setup and make sure it's actually letting you get the rest you need. You can upgrade your bedding with bowl and branch Shop signature shoes, sheets, supportive pillows, cozy blankets and luxurious comforters. Find exactly what you need to get better sleep. The result is a bed that looks beautiful and feels amazing the moment you get into it. Everything Bolen Branch makes is designed to be breathable and incredibly soft. One of the most popular items is their signature sheets, and it's not uncommon for people to buy a couple of sheet sets to rotate through. I've tried the sheets, they're amazing. They're very soft and they get better as you wash them. They're incredibly comfortable. They they breathable. I'm very into cotton so they're really nice. They're not scratchy. They're very soft at the same time. And as everyone knows, I love my waffle blanket. It's so soft. Upgrade your sleep with bolan branch get 15% off your first order plus free shipping at bolanbranch.com pivot with code pivot that's Boland Branch B O L L A N--B-R-A-N-C-H.com pivot code pivot to unlock 15% off exclusions apply foreign.

[Scott Galloway]

Comes from coreweave AI isn't just a new tool, it encompasses so much more. It's spurring a revolution across all industries and reshaping itself to become a big part of our future together. Coreweave is at the center powering some of the biggest names in AI. As the essential cloud for AI, coreweave provides an AI platform that combines next generation infrastructure, intelligent tools and expertise support. It's powering the world's most complex AI workloads faster and more efficiently. From medical research and diagnosis to education, from complex visual effects, from movies to breakthroughs in science and technology. If it's AI, coreweave is uniquely ready to power it with purpose built tech. The big idea is the wild visions and what ifs and why nots. CoreWeave is working to build what's never been built before. CoreWeave is the essential cloud for AI. Ready for anything. Ready for AI to learn more about how CoreWeave powers the world's best AI, go to coreweave.com readyfor anything.

[Kara Swisher]

Support for this show comes from Gusto. Let's just get straight to the point. If you run a small business, you're probably wasting valuable time on manual payroll and HR forms. But in a world where every minute counts, Gusto can help you by giving back some of that precious time. Gusto is an online payroll and benefits software built for small, small businesses. It's all in one remote, friendly, and incredibly easy to use, so you can pay, hire, onboard, and support your team from anywhere. If you ever been stuck working on repetitive administrative tasks and thought to yourself there must be an easier way, that's the kind of thing Gusto was built to solve. They can provide automatic payroll filing, simple direct deposits, health benefits, commuter benefits, workers comp 401k, you name it. Gusto makes it simple and has options for nearly every budget. Save time with built in automated tools, offer letters, onboarding documents, direct deposit, and more. With Gusto, you can get direct access to certified HR experts to help support you through any tough HR situation. I use Gusto with my small business, Podium Media, and I really like it. It's super simple to use. Try gusto [e-mail] pivot to get three months free when you run your first payroll. That's three months free [e-mail] pivot one more time. Gusto. Scott, we're back with more news. America's 250th birthday will now be a MAGA rally. Apparently, President Trump called for canceling the concert series at the planned event after several musicians dropped out instead because they were told it was nonpartisan. It's obviously not nonpartisan. Instead, Trump suggests that he should headline the event, calling himself the number one attraction anywhere in the world. But there's a lot you know. And now his name's gonna be yanked off the Kennedy Center. A judge has ordered his name to be taken down again. A lot of performative stuff, but still irritating. Any predictions for the 250th celebration? It feels like no one's any closer to. He is not backing down on celebrating himself. Including a $250bill. Scott Bessen has soiled himself once again. So, thoughts?

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, you know, it's obnoxious and we'd like to think that it's bad for him, but, you know, I hate to admit it, if somebody thinks about brands a lot, you could make an argument that the most successful consumer brand of the last decade isn't Tesla, Apple or Nike. It's Trump. And, you know, he's put it out.

[Kara Swisher]

He's used the presidency to.

[Scott Galloway]

That's the right analogy. It used to be a public office and now it's increasingly an entertainment franchise.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

And I think he has. I just think Democrats, like Robert McNamara said, if you want to defeat an enemy, you have to empathize with them. There's just no getting around it. The guy has an incredible feel for branding and marketing, and the product is awful. It is. It is like the greatest br. What he's been able to do with this shitty a product and inconsistency, the stakes, the water. It's. It really is. It really is incredible. I. I think this is. Quite frankly, I think this comes and goes. I don't think it's a big story. What do you think?

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, I know. I think it makes us all feel bad about America on the 250th anniversary. I mean, I'm going to be somewhere far away from Washington. And I just think him. I think all these artists pulling out was interesting. They were like, yeah, no, I think they see what's going on.

[Scott Galloway]

Are you going to Vermont? Is not where all of us are.

[Kara Swisher]

That's where I'm going. That's where exactly where I'm going is.

[Scott Galloway]

Did I get that right?

[Kara Swisher]

You did.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, my God. Stereotypes are for a reason. They're for a reason.

[Kara Swisher]

Has rebuilt their barn. They had a barnhouse, and it was going to fall down, and they rebuilt it, and it's very lovely. And so we're going up there. That's where we're going.

[Scott Galloway]

I can't believe I got that right.

[Kara Swisher]

You totally got that right. Oh, my God. Anyway, I'll tromp around and hike.

[Scott Galloway]

You got the dog guard for the German shepherd in the back of the Subaru.

[Kara Swisher]

No, I don't have a dog. I would like to have a dog, maybe, but they'd mess up my beautiful yard work. So cats don't mess up yard work. They just bring in chipmunks into the house. No, I think it's just, you know, I remember. Do you remember the 200th? I do. I do.

[Scott Galloway]

I was nice.

[Kara Swisher]

I was at camp.

[Scott Galloway]

I got a special commemorative coin from the Franklin Mint.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, I really liked the 200th, and I felt very proud of this country at the time. And I feel like, why do you have to make everything so cheesy and grifty and gross? Like it would. I'm excited for the 300th. I'll be dead, but that's okay. But I mean, it's just. It feels like grifty and gross. Although I did recently run into.

[Scott Galloway]

You might be around. Actually, I'm gonna call challenge on that. You'll be 113.

[Kara Swisher]

No, I will not be around for that. Anyway, I just ran into Ken Burns at something and he always makes me feel better. I just always. I wanna hang out with Ken Burns in Vermont and go hiking. That's what I wanna do. Because I like listening to him tell tales of our founding fathers and I feel better.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, but just to that point, if you want to feel better about America and the space we're in, and we're incredible narcissists, we like to think that we're in uniquely good or uniquely bad times. Folks, as bad as things are, things have been much worse in America and we've always been able to come back stronger. Yeah, that's not to say you don't need to vote, you don't need to be alarmed, you don't need to take action. But at one point, 1% of America, American population controlled the government and it happened to be the slave owners. Eighty years ago we were interning people in makeshift concentration camps because their parents were or because they immigrated from Japan. We have been in pretty dark places before.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

Anyways, history makes me hang out with

[Kara Swisher]

Ken Burns in Vermont. That's my goal. Anyway. Last, last story. Blue Origin is facing a major setback. Ever its new Glenn rocket exploded during a test on the launch pad last week. The company said all personnel were safe and described the incident as an anomaly. Jeff Bezos posted on X. Very rough day, but we'll rebuild whatever needs rebuilding, get it back to flying. It's worth it. The explosion which damaged Blue Origin's launch pad, which is a critical problem, it's a significant blow. They've spent about a billion dollars on it. I think it's at Cape canaveral to challenge SpaceX and the commercial space race. And one of the things about the new Glenn is they can put up. They're trying with their LEO system to put up lots of satellites. They have a couple hundred. And Space Starlink has, I don't know, 10,000 or close to 10,000. And so they've been trying to do this. And these new Glenn rockets would put up, I think 48 or 50, as opposed to a couple that they put up in their smaller rockets. You know, it's a real problem for the launch pad. They only had one for the big one. And for it to blow up on the launch pad, from what I understand, I've been talking to a lot of rocket people is bad. It should have blown up in the air of all things, because then they would have been able to preserve the launch Pad. It's not great. It's not a great thing. And thank God Elon didn't go on and on about it because he knows he blows up his own rockets frequently. But it would be nice to have more than one in this area. Although it's two of the same people, but still the competition. Thoughts?

[Scott Galloway]

I just couldn't wait. As soon as I saw the explosion, I immediately posted it on threads and said, bezos back on CNBC again, which I thought was really good. It didn't get that many likes, but I thought that was funny. My favorite, I always like to hear the live broadcast because the individual, and they're trained to do this, they always call an explosion an anomaly.

[Kara Swisher]

An anomaly, yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

Which is like calling my divorce a scheduling conflict.

[Kara Swisher]

It's like we can make jokes because nobody was killed.

[Scott Galloway]

Disagreement. A mild disagreement, you know? And my favorite, it's like I don't fully understand and this, this happens all the time. But when a rocket blows up on the launch pad, isn't that like failing a sobriety test in the parking lot?

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

I mean, yeah, I need to understand the physics. But just to be clear.

[Kara Swisher]

Not good.

[Scott Galloway]

One of the reasons private companies like SpaceX and Blue Origin have succeeded or have caught in some way surpassed NASA is that they're allowed to move further out the risk curve and explode rockets on the launch pad. If NASA did this, there's a feeling of government failure. They can't take these kinds of risks. And to a certain extent, and just as I feel like you need a certain number of bank failures every once in a while to show that you are allocating capital at close to or near the efficient frontier of growth, you do. I hate to say this, I think you do need a certain number of explosions on the launch pad. Because what that says is, and by the way, my understanding is not a single person was injured or killed here.

[Kara Swisher]

That's right.

[Scott Galloway]

This is a loss of capital from a company that has access to a lot of capital.

[Kara Swisher]

It's not good because they were trying to get like, Think about it, a couple hundred versus ten thousand satellites like you.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, but Elon's had them explode. This is a function of.

[Kara Swisher]

No, no, no. But he has 10,000 satellites up there. This is. This is. Everyone talks about Mars and everything else. This is a race for satellite dominance.

[Scott Galloway]

Agreed.

[Kara Swisher]

But only one company dominates at this point. And so it's a setback in that they can't get dozens of these things up. They can get a couple on these smaller rockets and they're trying very Hard. It's just. It's still. Someone, when they saw the explosion, said to me, oh, look, it's the Washington Post budget for here, like, or something. I was sort of laughed. It's true. He doesn't mind losing money here, and he's losing money. Let's be clear. He. He's hoping for a payoff later. Although, looking at the. The rocket business at SP, SpaceX is not the greatest business in the world right now yet, either.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, it is.

[Kara Swisher]

Starlink is.

[Scott Galloway]

It is. It's got to drive him crazy that he's behind. He looks like he's behind a guy who's running six companies at the same time.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

And. And right now, Blue Origin is looking less like NASA and more like, I don't know, Neiman Marcus with propulsion.

[Kara Swisher]

But, you know, there's summer yachting to do, you know. I don't know if you know that, but that's Bezos's job during the summer.

[Scott Galloway]

Good for him. I've told you, I'm here for his midlife crisis.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, yeah. I know you like that.

[Scott Galloway]

I think I've got invited back to the event he goes to that I thought I was disinvited from because I thought Elon was going. I'm not going to tell you because I don't want to get disinvited. God.

[Kara Swisher]

I know. Why do you get invited to. What do they think you're like, a patsy?

[Scott Galloway]

They think they can turn me, I think.

[Kara Swisher]

Yes.

[Scott Galloway]

And by the way, I am a patsy. You've listened to my interviews.

[Kara Swisher]

You can be turned. Actually, part of me thinks that you can be.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, no. If I turn, it's going to be towards way the left.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. Okay.

[Scott Galloway]

Every day I get a little bit more. Bernie.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, wow. Okay. All right.

[Scott Galloway]

No, but people are always coming for you.

[Kara Swisher]

It really irritates me, especially because they're irritating. People come for you anyway.

[Scott Galloway]

Coming for. You mean hating on me or embodying me?

[Kara Swisher]

I'm liking wanting you to do stuff.

[Scott Galloway]

I'm very irritated. That bothers you? I like.

[Kara Swisher]

That bothers me. I'm like, get. Get your mitts off my dick.

[Scott Galloway]

Jokes are always welcome at conferences.

[Kara Swisher]

Get your mitts off my imperfect ally.

[Scott Galloway]

No, I told a dick joke right while Anthony Blinken was on stage. That was a. That was a moment. Oh, I like him. He's very handsome.

[Kara Swisher]

He's a nice. He's a handsome man.

[Scott Galloway]

I think people are scared of you. I think they're less scared of me.

[Kara Swisher]

I don't know.

[Scott Galloway]

And they know I like to drink. I bring a good vibe.

[Kara Swisher]

All right. Okay, fine. I'm not unfun. I'm going on the. Anyway, that is true.

[Scott Galloway]

That's a big. You know what? That's a bit. That's a. Yeah. You would rather be invited to be on the View than this thing. I know.

[Kara Swisher]

You're right. You're right. But I like to just so. Because I like to see their discomfort when I'm there because I never really do anything. I'm quite cordial.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, speaking of invitations and bringing this back to me, I'm going to Brilliant Minds next week.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, you are? That's fun. I went to it many years ago. The first time.

[Scott Galloway]

What's that like?

[Kara Swisher]

It's in Sweden, right?

[Scott Galloway]

Stockholm. That's why I'm going.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, it was lovely. It's lovely. And it's actually well done. There's not a lot of edge to it, but maybe there is now. The sun never sets, which fucked with me.

[Scott Galloway]

No, that's why I'm going. I can't wait to go to Stockholm.

[Kara Swisher]

Anyway, one more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails. Hi, I'm Maria Sharapova, host of the Pretty Tough podcast. Each episode I sit down with high achieving women to discuss the pursuit of excellence without apology. This week on the show, clinical psychologist and founder Dr. Becky Kennedy and I unpack what it really means to raise kids today. I think parenting is the most important job in the world and the one that has the most impact on your world and the world. It is non stop. Check out pretty tough new episodes on Wednesdays. You can watch it on YouTube or listen in your favorite podcast app.

[Cassidy Hubbard]

In the span of a decade, Ben Shapiro built the Daily Wire into a conservative media empire. He produced hit podcasts that bit at liberal excesses and documentaries and lectures about the founders, the genders, the gospels he peddled polos, hats, candles, provided a home for deplatformed conservative stars like Matt Walsh and minted stars like Candace Owens. Let's put a pin in that. The Daily Wire even has kids programming, a judgmental puppet named Zoodles who shares Shapiro's load bearing eyebrows. This year, though, the empire showed signs of collapse. The Daily Wire's YouTube videos are down from millions of views to the low five figures. Web traffic is plummeting, and recently Shapiro laid off 13% of his employees. Asked by the Washington Post what had happened, Shapiro accused other conservatives of click whoring. By embracing radical Islam, theorizing about the evils of Winston Churchill, and mocking the widow of Charlie Kirk, the kid still got it on Today explained the fall of Ben Shapiro. Today Explain drops every weekday afternoon.

[Kara Swisher]

Hey girl, it's Teffy.

[Cassidy Hubbard]

This week on Teffy Talks, we're talking Kendall and Jacob. Reality TV villain Spencer Pratt running for mayor and a look inside the Cannes Film Festival. Mind you, I bought the majority of my crystals from Pratt Daddy. Crystals, incredible quality. But I never thought he'd be running for mayor and it does pain me

[Kara Swisher]

to say the words Pratt Daddy.

[Cassidy Hubbard]

If you're not already following the show, find us every everywhere at Taffy Talks. Subscribe on YouTube and all the podcast platforms and Instagram and TikTok so you can share with your other work bestie. See ya.

[Kara Swisher]

Okay, Scott, let's hear some wins and fails. Shall you go first or should I?

[Scott Galloway]

No, you go first. I've been doing all the talk.

[Kara Swisher]

Okay. I'm going to win. I just interviewed this young man, Theo Baker. It's right here. This is his book how to rule the World and it's about education and power at Stanford University. This is the kid who did all those stories as a 17 year old on the head of Stanford being part of a false. He didn't falsify the information but several papers he had had his name on did and he never moved to correct them. Just he's the son of two well known Washington reporters. I'm not gonna say their names cause he's his own person. Wonderful book about power. He's a technologist who loves technology. He's also an astonishing reporter. Just a great, really great. I felt so good for journalism. He started off as a. And just really is doing got amazing reviews. How to Rule the World. Theo Baker, he's very young, he's just graduating Stanford in two weeks. Although he's just run right over them with his amazing reporting. And this is a really interesting book including about this one group called how to rule the World. The course, the secret course that you have to get tapped for at Stanford and how they made so many misshapen entrepreneurs mentally misshapen entrepreneurs. And I just, it's not to hear from a young person in this regard. And I just think he's a really. He has a big career ahead of him.

[Scott Galloway]

That's nice.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. And Amy Pascal has bought the book for a movie and he's. The kids are all right. I always, when I did this interview I felt the kids are fucking all right. And it extends also to my kids. Like Alex is killing it at his job. I can't say where it is, but it's a big car company and he's loving it and the enthusiasm is enormous. And Louis is working in a restaurant and. And he loves it in a political campaign. So the kids are fucking. All right. That's what I feel good about.

[Scott Galloway]

So can't name the car company. Let me get this. He went to Michigan.

[Kara Swisher]

There's a lot of them.

[Scott Galloway]

I don't know.

[Kara Swisher]

He's having a great time. He's having a great time. He's learning so much, and it's really wonderful for him. He asked me not to, so I'm not going to. Okay. My fail is, I do think it's around this Graham Platner thing. And Amanda and I did have a disagreement about it. She's quite irritated by him.

[Scott Galloway]

Did you have hot sex after?

[Kara Swisher]

No. No, we did not. We were exhausted from all the children's part and my power washing. Let me say, I know this. People don't like it, but at some point we just have to this. And I know people are going to say we have to have purity tests. And coming from white lady Kara, old white lady Kara who has money, et cetera, I don't care. I just. I never have cared for zeroing in on people's personal issues. I can have personal feelings about it, like friends who have shitty boyfriends or whatever, but Graham Platner's wife is not my friend. I might have a different piece of advice from her if that was the case, but I just feel like it's their business. Like it's even. Even with Ken Paxton as much of a. I think he's more the fraudulent stuff with his wife. I don't. It sounds like he's a liar and a cheat in that way. He handled it and treated her, which says a lot about his judgment. And I think that's pertinent, but I almost don't care even about that. Although there are some things to learn. And so I think the judging of people has really got to stop. And not only because the Republicans do it. That's not the reason to do it. It's not kind and it's not. And it's not. There is a goal here, and we cannot make people feel like shit all the time for mistakes. I've made mistakes. Scott's made mistakes. We're all imperfect, and that's what I think about. So it's a failure of our country to continue down that road code. We have to leave some things behind.

[Scott Galloway]

My win. I just interviewed the CEO of Eli Lilly, a guy named David Ricks, and I'm just fascinated with Lilly. They made a huge bet on GLP1 drugs as I think a revolutionary. I think GLP1 is going to be a more important technology than AI and this company has quintupled its market cap in the last five years. And one of the things I absolutely, because I made a big bet on GLP1. GLP1s just 12 months ago were averaging $1,000 a month. They've already been cut to 250 to $500. It's a definition of elasticity. I think at some point these drugs are going to be less than $100 a month and maybe even lower than that. And I think the demand will absolutely explode. So I think the market is doing a really good job here of trying to get these drugs to the people who need them the most. And I think these drugs are just absolutely revolutionary in terms of everything from obviously from obesity but reduction in alcoholism, biting your nails. They're giving it to kids with social media addictions. I, you know, I think it's, it's not about eating less, it's about wanting less. I just, I'm fascinated by these things. And this company, Eli Lilly is the first trillion dollar or is the first pharmaceutical company to breach a trillion dollars. And it's the 13th most valuable company in the world. And the thing I love about this place, it's not in San Francisco, it's not in New York, it's not in London. Do you know where their headquarters are?

[Kara Swisher]

No, I don't. Where are they?

[Scott Galloway]

Indianapolis.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh cool.

[Scott Galloway]

And this guy kind of reeks of. He went to Purdue, followed, followed love of his life to Indiana where he went to the Kelley school. They employ 50,000 people. It's easily the most important company in Indiana, if not the Midwest. But we spend so much time talking about the Bay Area or New York and I just love a trillion dollar company.

[Kara Swisher]

That's a great interview for you. That's a great interview. You have been a very early person on GLP1.

[Scott Galloway]

I find them absolutely fascinating. Talk to someone who uses AI for their work and just loves it. And if that person is also on GLP1, ask them what's had a bigger impact on their life.

[Kara Swisher]

Life.

[Scott Galloway]

I think if I could go short AI and long GLP1 that would be my investment thesis for the next decade. Anyway, great company CEO is just reeks of kind of midwestern values and I'm glad they're just doing so well. I think they've made a huge bet and it's paying off in spades. My fail was going to be what you said, I personally don't trust anyone who hasn't said something stupid or drank too much at some point or. Or, I don't know, had failings in their marriage. I always wonder, okay, should we stab this person with a fork to see if they're actually human when they present this pure image of themselves? And I'm sure those people are out there, but you're. You know, thereby the grace of God go I. And if you want. If you want better candidates, folks, focus on whether they'd be a good fucking senator. They're not. They don't need to be your rabbis.

[Kara Swisher]

Alibi.

[Scott Galloway]

Like, do you think they're smart around policy? Do you think they demonstrate good leadership skills? And if you look at the best leaders in terms of actually moving America forward, sometimes they're not exactly priests. I mean, anyway. But where my fail is. You summarize that more articulately than I did. But where I go is the real fail. Jesus Christ, Platner. Just own it.

[Cassidy Hubbard]

Own it.

[Kara Swisher]

Own it.

[Scott Galloway]

Own it.

[Kara Swisher]

Own it.

[Scott Galloway]

I've made mistakes. I've demonstrated terrible judgment in my marriage.

[Kara Swisher]

Boy, yes, me, too.

[Scott Galloway]

And I have a great marriage.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

And guess what? The majority of people in America who have demonstrated terrible judgment in relationships can still have great marriages. And it says something about her. It says something about me. It says something about.

[Kara Swisher]

Or you get better. I have to say, I'm better at this marriage. Although not perfect either, by the way. I have a lot of failings. But you get better as you get older.

[Scott Galloway]

You do get better. I agree.

[Kara Swisher]

Better.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah. Said my. Anyways. But anyway, I just. We always. These candidates fail, and crisis communications is so easy, yet everyone gets it wrong. Own the issue. Acknowledge the problem. But all they've done is they've kept it alive in the cycle by denying it and attacking the media. They couldn't have, in my opinion. Again, it's not about the scandal. Folks, folks. It's how you handle it. That's it. Anyways, that's my fail.

[Kara Swisher]

They're mad. They're mad. What do you want? Anyway, that was a great one. We want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business, tech, or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com pivot to submit a question for the show or call 85551, pivot and elsewhere in the Karen Scott universe. This week on with Kara Swisher, I talked to former NPR hosts Audie Cornish and Ari Shapiro, who have reunited for a new CNN cultural podcast called Engagement Party. Audie says the goal is to help people get out of the cultural silos. Speaking of that, that put social media puts us in. Let's listen to a clip.

[Cassidy Hubbard]

I'm doing this kind of show to jailbreak the algorithm. I hate the for you page. My kingdom for an actual search that works. I don't like the word feed. Like everything about the way they have structured social media in the last 10 to 15 years bothers me deeply.

[Kara Swisher]

You know, the only that they say user. What's the other industry that uses the word user?

[Scott Galloway]

Drugs.

[Cassidy Hubbard]

Drugs, exactly. Like all those. I do the same thing. I'm like, yeah, feed user. Like just everything about it content. It's just they hate us.

[Kara Swisher]

It was really fun. It was actually a really fun interview with the two of them.

[Scott Galloway]

She's very talented.

[Kara Swisher]

She is. And so is Ari. Ari is terrific too. Really interesting pairing. They're trying to do Pivot but less dick jokes.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, then fuck them.

[Cassidy Hubbard]

Fuck them, Fuck them.

[Kara Swisher]

They can't get there. Pacquiao Arian Adi and good luck. Okay, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot. Be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back on Friday.

[Scott Galloway]

Today's show was produced by Lara Naimon, Zoe Marcus, Taylor Griffin and Todd Wiseman. Aaliyah Jackson engineered this episode. Thanks also to Drew Burroughs Mussevera and Dan Shalon the Shock Karaz, Vox Media's executive producer of podcast. Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York magazine and Vox Media. We'll be back back later this week for another breakdown of all things tech and business care. Have a great rest of the week.

[Kara Swisher]

Support for this show comes from Harvey AI. The future of law is agentic. Not just tools that assist, but AI agents that navigate complex matters. That's why Harvey created agents that can do the work from end to end. They build a plan, pull from the secure data sources, run sub age agents in parallel and draft work product ready for your review so you can delegate work and own the judgment. Trusted by more than 60% of the Am Law 100 and leading Fortune 500 legal teams. Harvey is an AI operating system designed specifically for legal work. Harvey AI tailored for law. Learn more at Harvey AI.