Trump's AI Stake, SpaceX's IPO Froth, and Apple's Siri Overhaul

Summary

Pivot Podcast Summary: “Trump’s AI Stake, SpaceX’s IPO Froth, and Apple’s Siri Overhaul”

Date: June 9, 2026
Hosts: Kara Swisher & Scott Galloway

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Kara and Scott tackle three seismic stories—Trump’s proposed government stake in AI companies, the froth and fanfare surrounding SpaceX’s record-setting IPO, and Apple’s long-awaited overhaul of Siri. Along the way, they offer their classic snarky banter, business context, and digressions into American politics, media shakeups (especially the 60 Minutes uproar), and trends in public education.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. New York Vibes, Hunter Biden’s Comeback, and Social Media Politics

[02:00–11:00]

• Scott shares a personal story about family time, New York’s post-pandemic vibrance, and the NBA playoffs’ effect on city life.
• Kara laments Trump’s intrusion at Madison Square Garden, disrupting outdoor Knicks watch parties for the public.
  • “Trump, he's fucking it up...They have all these outdoor watch things around Madison Square Garden, which is really fun. And now they can’t do it because stupid Trump is coming to the game.” — Kara [04:33]
• Discussion shifts to Hunter Biden’s newfound authenticity and meme status on X.
  • Kara: “I gotta say, I find it very interesting how he’s doing it. It’s authenticity.” [06:48]
  • Scott: “I think people are just sort of ready for a funny guy who smokes crack. Well, he doesn’t anymore anyways.” [07:37]

2. California & LA Politics: Social Media Heat vs. Voter Quality

[10:21–12:16]

• Spencer Pratt’s run for LA mayor and failure despite internet celebrity—distinguishing online heat from real voter appeal.
• Successful San Francisco candidate Daniel Lurie phones Kara to debate her on “compelling” versus “douche nozzle” candidates.
• “Voters want what voters want. And I really feel good about voters right now.” – Kara [12:12]

3. Media Shakeup: The 60 Minutes Firing Scandal & Business Logic

[12:16–34:04]

• Kara and Scott cover the mass exodus and controversy around 60 Minutes—star correspondents and editors ousted under new ownership.
• Scott dissects the business logic: Why mess with a broadcast show that’s still a hit? The answer, he argues, lies in currying favor with Trump for much bigger political/economic gains.
• Quote: “You just wouldn’t fuck with it…It makes no sense, right? So why does this make sense?” – Scott [15:01]
• Kara and Scott weigh the risks Ellison (the new owner) is taking:
  • Is it short-term thinking to curry Trump’s favor for regulatory/merger approval, even as Trump politically weakens?
  • “The Ellisons have done the math and say we would rather risk killing a healthy player...and currying favor with a guy who can give us TikTok on a platter at 80% off.” – Scott [18:49]
  • “If we have to throw 60 Minutes on the funeral pyre to show loyalty, so be it.” — Scott [19:23]
• Kara argues for the continued importance of top-tier institutions: “I do think fucking with 60 Minutes, same thing. So go ahead.” [17:01]
• The segment also explores internal CBS dynamics, staff reactions, and reputation risk.
• Notable Lesley Stahl segment: her decision to stay, the psychology of legacy, and Scott’s (brutal but funny) take on her work at age 84.
  • “She shouldn't be buying green bananas at this point.” — Scott [31:59]
  • “She had a chance to put the world's greatest dot on top of an exclamation point at the end of a career and she's missed it.” — Scott [33:34]

4. The SpaceX IPO: Trillion-Dollar Froth Meets AI Hype

[38:54–47:57]

• SpaceX prepares for an IPO that could give it a staggering $1.77T valuation (94x revenue).
• Google cuts a rich deal for SpaceX’s spare GPU capacity; Alphabet stands to gain massively from both the contract and its 6% equity stake.
  • “For every dollar they spend on compute, they're technically getting 5 back in the increase in the value of their stake in SpaceX.” — Scott [41:21]
• Scott flags a “dramatic vibe shift” in business sentiment on AI—studies show most CFOs aren’t happy with AI’s ROI, and people are starting to eye the hype skeptically.
  • “People are really in the business world starting to sour on the brave new world of AI. It feels like there’s been a tangible vibe shift.” – Scott [42:11]
• Strong skepticism around the IPO’s price and durability:
  • “I said I wouldn’t get near SpaceX. And if you do, I would sell on the first trade. I think SpaceX is about to hit a 10-year high on the minute it goes public…” — Scott [44:33]
• Observations on AI-linked equity froth versus the actual business, and whether this reflects Musk’s personal meme/brand as much as anything:
  • “Is that Elon or AI? That’s the question. I think the answer is yes.” — Scott [44:07]
• Musk’s multiple bets (robots, AI, Starlink) and the consequences for other markets like Bitcoin.

5. Trump’s AI Stake, Government Interference, and Populism vs. Logic

[47:57–51:44]

• Trump and Bernie Sanders both float ideas for a government “public stake” in AI companies—either by direct investment or industry-specific taxes. OpenAI’s Sam Altman reportedly open to government involvement.
  • Kara: “This is such a socialist thing.”
  • Scott: “Once you start picking winners and losers, that's socialism…It never works for the economy.” [48:15]
• Arguments for/against such moves:
  • Government support (like the CHIPS Act) works when access is universal, not when government tries to “pick” specific stocks/companies.
  • “It is bullshit populism going after a specific industry. It creates a ton of bureaucratic unnatural acts across capital allocation.” — Scott [49:57]
• Prediction: the biggest AI companies—overextended on infrastructure—will get (or lobby for) a government bailout disguised as “growth” initiative.
  • “We’ll privatize the gains and socialize the losses. Because Trump thinks he's smart and thinks he’s a good business person.” — Scott [51:44]

6. Apple’s Siri Overhaul—Too Little, Too Late?

[55:43–60:08]

• Apple finally announces a major Siri upgrade, switching backend AI to Google’s Gemini via billion-dollar licensing, and promising chatbot-like abilities with on-device, cloud, and full Google compute tiers.
• Both hosts slam Siri’s historical uselessness.
  • “Siri sucks. And I'm not going to be happy that it just is workable at this point...It's a bad assistant.” — Kara [55:49]
  • “It’s right up there with the Cybertruck for the biggest product fails...” — Scott [56:44]
• Critique of Apple’s strategy: is deep dependence on Google a mistake or a necessary catch-up? Will John Ternus (Cook’s successor) change direction?
• Minor amusements: Siri talking back when cursed at.
  • “‘I won't respond to that.’ That’s the best experience with Apple I have had.” — Scott [59:59]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “People are just sort of ready for a funny guy who smokes crack. Well, he doesn’t anymore anyways.” — Scott [07:37]
• “You just wouldn’t fuck with it…It makes no sense, right? So why does this make sense?” — Scott (on 60 Minutes) [15:01]
• “If we have to throw 60 Minutes on the funeral pyre to show loyalty, so be it.” — Scott [19:23]
• “She shouldn't be buying green bananas at this point.” — Scott (on Lesley Stahl) [31:59]
• “People are really in the business world starting to sour on the brave new world of AI. It feels like there's been a tangible vibe shift.” — Scott [42:11]
• “This is socialism. This is cronyism. It never works for the economy.” — Scott (re: Trump’s AI stake ideas) [48:15]
• Kara and Scott on Siri:
  • “It sucks.” — Kara [55:49]
  • “It’s right up there with the cybertruck for like the biggest product fails.” — Scott [56:44]

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• [02:00–11:00] Opening banter, NYC/NBA, Hunter Biden’s resurgence
• [12:16–34:04] The 60 Minutes controversy and media business logic
• [38:54–47:57] SpaceX IPO, AI infrastructure, and market froth
• [47:57–51:44] Trump’s proposed AI stake, government’s role in tech
• [55:43–60:08] Apple’s Siri overhaul
• [62:25–71:30] Wins and Fails: Movies, 60 Minutes, and Ferrari’s EV misstep

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Wins and Fails

• Kara’s Win: The resurgence of the domestic box office—over $1B in a month without a Marvel movie.
• Kara’s Fail: The 60 Minutes firings—“so unnecessary and stupid.” Secret “Enjoy the Bagels” T-shirts among 60 Minutes staff.
• Scott’s Win: Surge in public university applicants—affirming the value and ROI of major state schools over private “elite” options.
• Scott’s Fail: Ferrari’s bid to release an EV—a brand misstep akin to “Rolex launching a smartwatch.”

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Banter and Closing Notes

• Scott recounts being approached for an “Andy Rooney” role at 60 Minutes (and why he said no).
• Humorous observations about sports, World Cup ticket prices, and Apple’s digital assistant (“I won’t respond to that.”).
• Scott’s analogy: “You talking about sports is like Greta Thunberg reviewing steakhouses.” [72:59]
• Strong closing: Both note key stories to watch for Friday’s episode—SpaceX IPO fallout, and continued drama at CBS/60 Minutes.

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Takeaways

• Behind-the-scenes business logic is increasingly dictating decisions at major media and tech firms, with political influence (especially via Trump) playing an outsize role.
• Both the AI space and SpaceX’s sky-high IPO are tinged with skepticism and fear of hype outrunning reality.
• Old institutions (60 Minutes, Apple/Siri, Ferrari) face existential crossroads—caught between legacy, reputation, and disruptive new economics.
• Through it all, the hosts champion critical thinking (in education, tech, and politics), decry populist shortcuts, and keep perspective with their trademark humor.

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For more context or specific soundbites, see timestamps above. This summary captures the heart and controversies of a jam-packed Pivot episode, condensing business logic, political consequences, and cultural observation for quick catch-up.

Transcript

[Kara Swisher]

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[Scott Galloway]

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[Kara Swisher]

Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media podcast network. I'm Kara Swisher.

[Scott Galloway]

I'm Scott Galloway.

[Kara Swisher]

How you doing Scott? We're both in New York, not seeing each other.

[Scott Galloway]

Actually I got, I saw one of those TikToks Friday night I went home and I was, you know, I don't like to do this, but I had a few drinks and I get very sentimental when I'm a little bit drunk. And I saw all of a sudden all these reels about how basically 90% of your time spent with your kids is before the age of 18 and I'm an 18 year old leaving for college in the fall and I freaked out and booked A flight home Saturday morning and canceled all my meetings Monday through Sunday.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, my God. So you're what?

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, back in London. Immediately walked into. Walked in the house and my. Neither of my boys wanted anything to do with me.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, you're there though.

[Scott Galloway]

You're in the room playing video games, talking to friends and like. Oh, yeah. They're like, well, that's good.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, how nice. That's nice. I heard you were out. You know, I was tracking you. I texted you several times.

[Scott Galloway]

Do you have Stasi out?

[Kara Swisher]

I have Stasi. I am Stasi. You were out with some famous people. Apparently you walked into something with Sean Penn and walked out with Martin Scorsese. I don't understand what's happening. I don't understand.

[Scott Galloway]

But the scariest thing is I get a text message from you saying, why are you at the Greenwich Hotel with Sean Penn? And I'm looking around like, jesus Christ, I'm being watched.

[Kara Swisher]

My friends write me whenever they see you out and about in the thing. So it's very.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, let me put it this way. That could get so much worse.

[Kara Swisher]

I know, exactly. Now I'm watching you at all times. I'm monitoring you. I have to. I have to for my own career. New York is really kicking it, I gotta tell you. It's so weak. The kids did come into Brooklyn. Everywhere you go, there's not a part of the city that's not on fire because of the Knicks. You know, the Knicks things. But it's not that. It's something else. It's really interesting.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, it's a lot of things. You know, the. I mean, okay, crime is at historic lows. Bankers bonuses are at all time highs. New stores. The city has shed its skin since COVID People are excited about the new mayor. People are excited.

[Kara Swisher]

World cup is coming.

[Scott Galloway]

World cup is coming. And the thing I noticed that was really exciting is we used to love to go to different European cities during the World Cup. Like if Paris was in a World cup match, you can go in Paris and it's just fun. Everyone's just on fire. When I was in. I was in Morocco when Morocco made it to the quarterfinals. It felt that way. In New York during. For the Knicks, you walk by any bar and there's just a ton of young people watching the next game.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, you know who's, you know this gunk that's coming to the Garden party, The Madison Square Garden. Trump, he's fucking it up. They have all these outdoor watch things all around Madison Square Garden, which is really fun. And now they can't do it because stupid Trump is coming to the, to the game. The Dolan, James Dolan, who's kind of a toad, has invited him, which ruins it for all the fans. That's how much he cares about, you know, blue collar people who can't afford the ridiculously priced tickets. It's really fun and stuff. And now they can't do it because you need a perimeter around the Garden, which is in the dead center of Manhattan, which is. That creates all manner of nonsense from traffic point of view. Anyway. I think that sucks.

[Scott Galloway]

I'm surprised he would want to be there. I would think that crowd would.

[Kara Swisher]

They're going to boo the shit out of you.

[Scott Galloway]

I would think so, too.

[Kara Swisher]

They are, absolutely. It's going to be bad. I think it's going to be. And he's wrecking it for everyone. And the traffic issues are already bad enough anyway. You know what I did this weekend?

[Scott Galloway]

What did you do?

[Kara Swisher]

The kids came up to Brooklyn and we did a little kite flying in Prospect park and stuff. But I went to the loveliest wedding in Connecticut. It was a guy who was a producer, his name is John Adler, got married to his longtime partner. And so it was a gay wedding at a country club in West Point, Connecticut. And it was so fun. It was really fun. It was the straightest gay wedding I've been to. But it was lovely. The family was there, they were so supportive and it took. I felt good about humanity after this wedding because there was. And a lot of the, like this guy jeweler, it was like uncles and cousins, they were all pivot fans, which was nice and asked me about you. So the jeweler asked me. It was nice. It made me feel good about humanity.

[Scott Galloway]

That's what weddings are generally supposed to do, right?

[Kara Swisher]

Not always. Yeah. Sometimes I go to a wedding, I'm like, this isn't going to last. But this was just one of these wonderful family weddings that was really enjoyable. We got a lot to get to. I'm glad you're back in London with your boys. That's a good thing. Hunter Biden, he's into his act, too, and I'm loving it. He has fame on X. Former President son now has 700,000 followers on the platform after he reemerged last month saying, I'm Hunter Biden. You never actually heard from me. Since then, he's taken this incredibly candid approach. He's quite canny at social media, joking about his previous controversies, including drug use. In one post, he addressed the bag of cocaine found at the White House in 2023, saying it definitely wasn't his because he had never forgotten his drugs. In another, he replied to an accusation that he was part of an elite oligarch class with a cel himself at a Super 8 motel off i95. It's really interesting because he's actually engaging with MAGA people a lot and they're kind of liking it. They're kind of liking him. Really interesting. I know it's kind of silly and sort of memey, but I gotta say, I find it very interesting how he's doing it. It's authenticity.

[Scott Galloway]

I think people, yeah, he's like, he's funny. I think people like he's deprecated. Yeah. And I think people love that kind of vulnerability and honesty. And also, I think I'm on this anti optimization kick, or I think that, I think the optimization trend has just gotten way too fucking far.

[Kara Swisher]

It has.

[Scott Galloway]

And you see that if you're truly about optimizing, you go to 80%, 80% of good sleep, good health, good nutrition, and then you indulge the other 20%. You don't want your metrics to consume the joy in your life. And I also, I think people are just sort of ready for a funny guy who smokes crack. Well, he doesn't anymore anyways. From what I've heard, it's pretty addictive. But anyways, I hope for him that he's no longer smoking crack.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

But I think Hunter, he's just a unique personality. He's got that kind of, I don't know, for lack of a better term, that Twitter is. But the thing that kicked it off, and I hate to admit this, was his interview with Candace Owens. Yeah, that was, that was part of his comeback tour. And I, I, I refuse to watch it because my understanding is he, he kind of indulged her conspiracy theories on Israel, Charlie Kirk and Trump's assassination attempts

[Kara Swisher]

or he didn't push back.

[Scott Galloway]

But the Google, the Google search on Hunter Biden is, is skyrocketed. He is, you know, he's an interesting guy. And there's, get this, there's now a 26% chance on Kalshee that he runs for president in 2028.

[Kara Swisher]

No, he's not gonna get president.

[Scott Galloway]

One in four chance.

[Kara Swisher]

I like that he's defending the Bidens. They've been so clodish about defending themselves. I don't think Joe Biden's so great, or Joe certainly isn't, but he's sort of like, yeah, we're broken people. So what? And like the stuff, the shit you're throwing around about me isn't true, but some of it is. So I think that's why it works, is that he's defending his family in a way that deals.

[Scott Galloway]

That's a great point. Real people want. People want to like a Biden right now.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, but I don't think the Bidens have done a great job.

[Scott Galloway]

That's my point. They're looking for someone to like in the.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, exactly.

[Scott Galloway]

I don't. I. I thought Dr. Biden, I thought

[Kara Swisher]

she did a bad.

[Scott Galloway]

I thought. I think. I don't think she's. She's. She hasn't served the Biden family well, in my view.

[Kara Swisher]

They seem, you know, she's mad and righteous.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, I don't.

[Kara Swisher]

Anyways, anyway, I'm really enjoying. Hunter. I'm really enjoying what you're doing. And. And it's interest. See where it goes. I'll be interested. Because you can't just live on Twitter and social media alone. As Spencer Pratt just found out, there was a heat around him than there were votes. And so he's just been surpassed in Los Angeles. And of course the right is saying, including President Trump, that the election was stolen. It wasn't. There was a very big movement around. It's Nithya Raman who is a very well qualified person and she's pulled ahead of him in the LA mayoral primary and is probably going to stay there. And of course the right is calling it rigged, but it's not. That's how they do votes in California slowly cause a lot of mail in. So that was a lot. It was sort of snakes. He was like snakes on a plane of politicians. That's my feeling. Although he did okay. He got a lot of votes still.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, I think it's. I actually think the California elections are somewhat heartening. You know, Starr was money, Hilton was attention. Becerra appears to be experiencing competence and he appears to be doing well. And the mayoral race, I mean, at some point we're gonna talk about candidate quality. Cause it struck me as incompetence versus a conspiracy theorist. But I like the fact that he came in third. It's actually bad for Bass.

[Kara Swisher]

It is. Because this other woman's impressive in many ways. She's a democratic socialist, I think. But she's got, you know, she's an MIT person. She worked on homelessness, she worked in India. She worked. She's a really interesting character. Well, I don't know enough about her, but I certainly am going to learn. She's got a race on her hands here now.

[Scott Galloway]

She is interesting. But more than that, it's D versus D now versus D versus R and D versus R in la. It's vastly skewed towards D. And especially when the D is their primary qualification to run for mayor. Is that their house burned down.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

So, you know, California politics have been kind of, it's blurred the line between entertainment and public service. But you know, at least Netflix cancels shows when they're underperforming. They don't seem to do that in California. And I think a lot of this bullshit has started with not only Trump, but the fact that it appears that the primary qualification for a cabinet post now is that you're a T, you know, a news host or a celebrity.

[Kara Swisher]

But it didn't work, right? You know, it didn't work. His every. He had a lot more heat on social media than real actual voters. Which is, you know, it's interesting because we talked about this last week, but you know, we said that Daniel Lurie is doing a great job in San Francisco, but he's also online. And I said it's not like he's compelling like Spencer Pratt who's a douche nozzle. And I got a call from and all of a sudden I pick up the phone, I wasn't looking who called. And he goes, not compelling. And it was Daniel. And I said, yes, that is how you, that is why you're doing something.

[Scott Galloway]

Meant that in the best way.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, I said that. I said, no, you're not compelling at all. And he is a douche nozzle. And you are not a douche. No. Anyway, it just shows you that social media may not be what we think it is. Right, Exactly. In terms of politics, voters want what voters want. And I really feel good about voters right now. I think they know what they want. Anyway, let's move on to the big story again. FCC chairman Brendan Carr, the moron has inserted himself in the 60 minutes. Dr. I don't know why, because he's supposed to be deciding on this car. Posted on X about fired correspondent Scott Pelley after Pelly spoke to the New York Times. Responding to a comment about how Pelly was surprised he got fired, Carr the moron wrote, one of the reasons why trust in media is low. So many legacy journalists are completely out of touch. You do not get away with that behavior in any run of the mill job. Well, yes, Brendan, you moron, he was asking a basic question of why were people who had no reason to be fired got fired anyway. He should not be Weighing in. Neither should any of those people, though Peli says CBS manager. The ones out of touch. Let's listen to a clip from an extraordinary interview he did with a friend of mine, Lulu Garcia Navarro, at the New York Times. It was full of stuff, so let's listen to it.

[Scott Galloway]

Of course we have to reach out to a younger and younger audience. But their argument about joining the Internet age is just disingenuous. It's almost as if Bari Weiss and Nick Bilton were sealed in a time capsule in 1990. 90 and it just cracked open. They've just discovered the Internet and they're running around telling everybody how important it is at CBS News. Yeah, join the fight.

[Kara Swisher]

Anyway, I love his voice. He was such a good verdict. We've been saying that it's not. Everyone knows this. It's not new fresh things. So I want to talk about this in a different way. I mean, I thought the interview was extraordinary and extremely damaging. That said, I don't know if something's going to happen about it, but we had a great talk last night. Scott called me and there's a business aspect to this I really want to talk about. Obviously the interview was really a lot, including this idea that he put his hands on Nick. Nick Bilton, who was put in place to run 60 minutes. A lot of controversy around him, which didn't turn out to be true. But this one executive, Tom, and I don't know how to. I can't pronounce. Anyway, he was saying that he tried to manhandle Nick Bilton, which wasn't true, and then said, oh, okay, you didn't like. The lack of reporting on the behalf of CBS management is really quite striking. And Scott called him out. Scott Pelley, whose voice is fantasy mellifulous. But you had this really great take about business and I'd love you to reel it out a little bit because I thought it was different than the typical those fuckers kind of thing, which in fact they are fuckers. But go ahead.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, I think if you just look at the industrial logic or lack thereof, you get to what's going on here. And that is this is a rare instance of broadcast media performing well. And so from an industrial logic standpoint, you just wouldn't fuck with it. And we use the analogy of performing open heart surgery on your best performing employer.

[Kara Swisher]

I love that. I thought that was so smart.

[Scott Galloway]

Makes no sense, right? So why does this make sense? Because regardless of whether you like the Ellisons or not, David Ellison is a smart guy. His father is a brilliant Business person. He just is. And they understand. They may not understand media or journalism, but they understand culture incentives, and they vastly understand shareholder value.

[Kara Swisher]

I would say Larry does, but go ahead.

[Scott Galloway]

Fair enough. Although I would argue his son at least seems competent.

[Kara Swisher]

He's competent. He's competent. Not around media, but he's good at making maverick Top Gun. But go ahead.

[Scott Galloway]

So the question is, why would they fuck with something that's working? I mean, that's the question. So it becomes. All right, first off, and this is where I go, too, while journalists and media are obsessed with themselves and think this is like an attack on democracy and journalism, I understand that the chill on journalism and that journalism is a key component of democracy. I'm of the camp that, quite frankly, if the Washington Post In 60 minutes go away, journalism is going to be just fine. That's not to say we shouldn't be concerned. That's not to say this isn't another example of Trump trying to put a chill on journalism. I get it. I'm. You know, when you try and encourage taking vaccines off the market, I think that is a real existential threat to the health and wellbeing of Americans. I think if 60 Minutes were to go away, those people are gonna find amazing jobs and create reasonable facsimiles of incredible journalism as they've continued to produce at 60 minutes.

[Kara Swisher]

May I just push back a tiny bit? That's not true. They are important of the many fixtures, and it's working. I do think it's more than that. And what Scott Pelley was asking, why are you firing competent people who are. Who are doing a great job? And I do think they're important. I think it's important to have a top of the food chain and a lower part, too. And it's sort of. So I don't. I do think fucking with the Washington Post is very damaging because of some of the stuff they do. And fucking with 60 minutes, same thing. So go ahead.

[Scott Galloway]

And I believe that those journalists and their outstanding work and their willingness to take truth to power will find a ton of different vessels if the Washington Post and 60. 60 Minutes is a construct go away. I don't think it's a threat to journalism as evidenced by what you're doing and hundreds of other interesting new companies are doing. Having said that, what's interesting here is just looking at it through a business lens. It doesn't make any sense to go up to Derek Jeter and say, we don't like you. We want to bench you. It's like benching Lionel Messi in the World Cup. It just doesn't make any industrial logic. And so if you go up the food chain, it's one of two things here. Either the Ellisons are so passionate about having a viewpoint that puts forward a more conservative viewpoint that they're willing to take these risks and potentially kill Messi right before the World cup or whatever. And I don't think that's it. I think that the math is pretty straightforward here. I think the Ellisons, the owners of WarnerMedia, the new owners, have decided there's more economic upside if they do Trump's bidding and potentially lose value at 60 minutes. It's not economically an important business to CBS. It might have a halo effect on the whole thing. Sure. But even cbs, the network itself, I think the Ellisons have done the math and decided that we would rather there is more. And this is a problem with an autocracy, and this is a bigger indictment in our society. I think the Ellisons have done the math and say we would rather risk killing a healthy player. That's a small business, and currying favor with a guy who can give us TikTok on a platter at 80% off.

[Kara Swisher]

He already did that, and I think

[Scott Galloway]

he'll continue to do it as long as we curry favor with it. And this is the problem. This isn't about the death of journalism. This is about an autocracy where oligarchs are made. If you support the current administration, the Ellisons have done the math. Yeah, we'd like to hold on to 60 minutes, but what's more important, we don't care.

[Kara Swisher]

I think don't care is more of it.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, nice to have. We don't really care because the numbers here are so small. Where the numbers turn into tens of billions of dollars is if the president is on our side because he perceives us as being on his side. And if we have to throw 60 minutes on the funeral pyre to show loyalty, so be it.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, it's really interesting when you said that. First I was like, oh, Scott, it's important. And then I thought, actually, when Tim Cook brought that golden statue, why'd he do it? The reputational hit was bad. And then he appeared at the Melania thing. Right. It's such a reputational hit. I was like, oh, he invested 100 million here and got 50. Like Elon giving money to the PACs. Invested 50 million here. He got 500 million billion here or 5 billion here. And I was like, oh, it's a trade. And they don't mind Taking the reputational hit. Same thing with Bezos. Why would he go yammer on so idiotically, right? Because he wants something, right? I mean that whole. He's gotten more mature. Like, come on. Like, stop it. Like you just saw that Kristen Welker interview. Looks like a giant baby, giant baby Huey. And I was like, you're right. He gets, they, they get more money out the other side. The issue is they're, they don't mind throwing out the really beautiful thing, right? Like sometimes when you junk something that's just fine, but they, that's what it is. And so it feels much more. It is political. It is political because I do think they're much more pro Israel, et cetera, et cetera. But. And much more like anti woke, which sort of feeds into their selections, editorial selections. But it is about like they'll get more out of it. Now what two things I'd love you to comment on. Look, Trump's at the very end of this is. We're at the end of the, you know, the king is falling down, right? On a daily basis. He looks quite sick. Let's not pretend he doesn't look like he had a stroke or something. Something happened to him. And so it's at the tail end. You see the Republicans pushing back. You see the polling, which is really significant even among female conservatives, male conservatives, farmers, like all his thing breaking down. Why would you double down on him right now? Because it seems like you'll get the reputational hit because afterwards when the Democrats come in, they're not going to forget. And by the way, probably the attorney generals will file a suit while we're taping this against to slow down the merger. And it will slow down the merger. So why would you do it now? Like if you're as smart as Larry Nelson is and trust us when we tell you he's very smart, why would you do it? It seems like the dumb bet right now.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, I don't think it is. Kara, keep in mind the deal. Tell me why the deal hasn't closed yet, right?

[Kara Swisher]

It has to close, right?

[Scott Galloway]

The deal hasn't closed. If Brendan Carr gets a call from Trump would say, I'm having second thoughts about media consolidation. A deal hasn't closed and Trump has shown a willingness to violate all norms. Not afraid of court battles. Maybe it gets overturned in court in a year or two years, at which point CBS continues to hemorrhage viewership. Trump can absolutely kill this deal. Trump can call Ellison and basically say, I want you to cancel Big Bang Theory and He would do it right now. And I'm trying to come up with a CBS show like the new Matlock, whatever it is. And I think, I think, I think Larry calls his son and goes, kill this show. Because if this deal doesn't go through and it doesn't close, I mean, so one, he has very strong short term incentive to be supportive of Trump. And two, they still have two and a half. You know, you still have two and a half years left and nothing proves. I mean, think about all the guys that showed up that we mocked. All the tech executives from Satya Nadella to Altman. Did tariffs affect any of them?

[Kara Swisher]

No, any of them. They got contracts with government, they got this, they got that. They got everything they wanted.

[Scott Galloway]

And Jensen Huang, I'm going to take you to China and try and get you to sell chips. And now the Chinese are saying, fuck you, we're not going to buy your chips. There has never been a return. Not capex, not AI, not plant, property, equipment, like investing in Trump right now. That is what a good autocrat does.

[Kara Swisher]

He says, what happens come November if the Democrats win the way they think, if they even win half of what they're going to win, there's going to be hell to pay. Or maybe they don't think they're as.

[Scott Galloway]

Here's the problem. Graham Platner. Graham Platner has had a series of really disturbing accusations against him by various women and the time. Okay, the problem is we apply a purity test to ourselves and to our candidates that the Republicans don't apply and as a result they feel safer. We threat, lock her up. Have you heard? We don't have chance of lock him up at Democratic. We're better than that. And I get it, I like that. But the reality is the incentives are the following right now. Get in with Trump, get your money. The Democrats are fucking pussies. And that was the wrong word to use.

[Kara Swisher]

That's all right.

[Scott Galloway]

The Democrats, they'll feel bad for us and they'll try and understand us and they'll haul us in front of Congress. Fine. But the upside here is so much greater than the downside dealing with an autocrat.

[Kara Swisher]

You're right. It's a risk assessment. I do make a little prediction here. We should probably move on in the thing. But I think the Democrats are much more, less a pussy than you think.

[Scott Galloway]

I hope so.

[Kara Swisher]

I have talked to a lot of them and they're like, well, let me

[Scott Galloway]

ask you this, do you think they should replace Blattner right now? So we have our High ground.

[Kara Swisher]

No, no, no. You know, I don't. And I have an argument with my wife about it. No, I don't. I don't. I think the voters of Maine should decide. That's my feeling. I always feel like the voters should decide. And if they make bad decisions, they have to live with it, right? If they pick Pratt, they have to fucking live. Live with it in Los Angeles. And I know the rest. Everyone who didn't vote for him have to live with it. But I'm a firm believer in voters. I just am always. I always feel like they always get it ultimately. And I think pundits and everyone else doesn't often get it. Sometimes they do, sometimes they're very canny. But I just feel like to me, you're betting on someone who's about to collapse.

[Scott Galloway]

And we've been saying that. We've been saying that for a while.

[Kara Swisher]

Look at him. Look at him. It's going down.

[Scott Galloway]

Do you really think he looks that bad?

[Kara Swisher]

I'm not talking about him. Yes, I think he looks that bad. He looks really bad. But that's not what I was talking about. I'm not talking about death. I'm not like, whatever he's. He's old. He's going to die within 10 years. So whatever. It's going to. Somewhere in there. Somewhere in there. And. But the numbers, I'm looking at the polls and I. A year ago I said, I think his polling is going to collapse. And it has collapsed. And so that's what I'm looking at is voters. Voters don't like this shit. And I think they are sticking their chin out so far with all their nonsense. Why would you fire competent people? It looks and also it creates. Listen, CBS's other executives are furious because it's ruining the CBS brand, which is a very successful. It's done okay in the network with all their old people shows. They're doing okay. And so I think you're starting to see leaks from, you know, there was one from this woman who was running CBS Entertainment. You sort of started seeing it from other news. You're just starting to see it. And if you. She couldn't. This could mess up the deal itself because of the heat on this on the other side. Right. It'll embolden more People from 60 Minutes to speak out. It'll embolden more stories. And let me tell you, folks, there's more shoes about to drop. I hear about everything. And so it's gonna be a continuing leak, leak, leak. And if you remember the Chris Lick thing. And I just think David Zaslav's just quicker to fold. Right. But it took Jeff Bezos two years to fold on Will Lewis. But eventually it's. It messes up the brand and they happen to have other things. Now Jeff just has the Washington Post, so he could hold out for two years, but Zaslav was starting to feel the pain elsewhere. And so that to me is the problem. And then David looks dumb, and David looking dumb to Daddy is not a good thing for him. You know what I mean? And so that's why I think there's a lot more at play here. And I do think the Democrats will extract something from them in a way I don't think there is. As weak as you think they are. And from hearing from them bygones is not in their vocabulary right now. It is. We will now be coming around and remembering what you did. So maybe they won't do it, but that's the tone I get from them. So we'll see. Anyway, I really enjoyed your idea of what they're doing, and you're absolutely right. The business way to look at this,

[Scott Galloway]

just to talk more about 60. So four of the seven. I think four of the seven anchors have left.

[Kara Swisher]

And the key executives, the editors. The key editors who. You don't know their names. Names. But critical.

[Scott Galloway]

That's really the heart and lungs. But the 75, what you call staff editors, junior producers, statisticians, data, none of them have left.

[Kara Swisher]

They can't leave. Let's be clear. They have jobs. There's not a. It's not a big market. So.

[Scott Galloway]

Right. And they have mortgages and all of that. I know exactly what the Ellisons did here. They called them and said. They called Leslie Stalin and said, leslie, you're an icon. Things are tumultuous. We promise. We promise we'll let you do whatever you want. And by the way, if you just stick around another 12 months until things settle down, there's another $5 million bonus for you. That's what I would have done. And I'm sure that call took place. And then they called the 12 critical people at the rank and file and said, look, tell everyone that when there's this kind of tumult and the top of the pyramid gets chopped off, there's a tremendous sucking sound upward and they would be stupid not to hang around to see what additional opportunities emerge. And people will always think about themselves before they think about the brave new world of the attack on journalism. They have mortgages to pay. They have college fund. I Agree to fund. And this is what will happen. Just as we thought all the noise in social media was gonna dictate the mayoral race, all the noise around 60 is gonna come down to the following. If the first six or dozen episodes in the fall are good, 60 will be fine. And if they're not, that thing will collapse under the weight of all this controversy. So it's gonna be about. It's gonna be about the product, full stop.

[Kara Swisher]

If you can make the product. Cause you do need those corresponding, and maybe they can't.

[Scott Galloway]

You know more about this than I do.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, I know the people they're calling. Cause I'm hearing from everyone they're calling, and none of them want to go there. They don't want to. They're calling some interesting people who are good, but all of them are like, I'm not selling my fucking reputation with these clowns.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, how do. How do they get guests? And also, I never miss an opportunity to make myself feel important. I was approached about a role at 60 Minutes.

[Kara Swisher]

And what did I say? I break your arm. Correct. Well.

[Scott Galloway]

And I said, no fucking way. I don't want to be. That's, like, the last thing if you're. I mean. And quite frankly, why the fuck is Leslie Stahl staying?

[Kara Swisher]

Well, can I give a word on that, and then we'll move on. I know Leslie really well. She used to come to all my conferences. She's really terrific. I've talked. She was trying an Internet thing off a couple years ago, and I helped her with it. She's not texting me back. Let's just say, leslie, I've helped you a lot. I really feel irritated by the fact that you won't even text me back. But that's another issue. I think I predicted she would do this, and everyone said I was wrong. But listen, this is the end of her career. She wants that retrospective of her career next year or the year after. She wants the party. She does have a loyalty to the place. She's been there so long. And so she feels by staying, she's protecting it. Like, at least someone's here to hold it back and watch them. My ish. And I think that's genuine. I do. I think it's genuine with her. She's. She's. She, like, you cut her open, she bleeds. 60 minutes, right? So I think that's energy, and she wants that. Like, if she left now, there'd be no retrospective. There'd be no end of her career. And I think she wants that. That's from A sort of selfish point of view. From the other point of view, she thinks she can save it. She can at least protect it for the time being until she'll wait them out. My problem is they're gonna go just around her. They're just gonna go around her. And I don't think she realizes that how much they're as canny and smart and tough as she is. She doesn't have as much leverage by staying. And that is. I think she made a mistake, but I thought she would stay. So that's my take on it. So I don't know because I haven't talked to her. I'm glad you didn't go. Thank you. I would have not been happy about that.

[Scott Galloway]

Under the auspices of the latest episode of don't these People have Friends? Lesley Stahl is an icon. Lesley Stahl is 84. Between 1 and 2% of 84 year olds work full time. By the time you're 87, it's less than 1%. You know, Lesley Stahl may live another 20 years. She's gonna be working full time for a matter of, you know, years, if not months. I mean, that's just. And I know that sounds ageist. I am an ageist and so is biology. She shouldn't be buying green bananas at this point.

[Kara Swisher]

Now, I don't think it's a good choice.

[Scott Galloway]

As a friend, a friend should say to her, leslie, you put out the following memoir. I have loved and appreciated and feel blessed to have been a part of this organization. I am proud and did my best regarding my work here. It is time for me to leave. And everyone else would have filled in the blanks in every fucking room she would have walked into for the rest of her life. She would have got a standing ovation. Instead, now, under some narcissistic notion that she's going to be able to control what happens in every production meeting. Oh, my God. How naive are you? She had a chance to put the world's greatest dot on top of an exclamation point at the end of a career and she's missed it. This was the perfect, perfect exit to a storied career. I'm not angry. I'm not shitposting her for staying. I'm shitposting her for not taking an unbelievable opportunity. I agree to put a Tiffany ribbon. To put a Tiffany ribbon on the aquamarine blue box. That was her Tiffany career. What a missed opportunity.

[Kara Swisher]

Goodbye, sir. Like that kind of thing. Good day.

[Scott Galloway]

Good day, sir.

[Kara Swisher]

Good day, sir. Can I ask you. I want you to say what they wanted you to do in 60 minutes, which cracks me the fuck up, because then it's not to do the, like, big interviews with Trump or do the investigative pieces where you dress up in a beer just for people to know. What did they want from Professor Galloway?

[Scott Galloway]

To do one or more of those Andy Rooney segments?

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. So you're Andy Rooney. You know what really bothers me about Soda Pop is.

[Scott Galloway]

And by the way, let me be clear. I grew up watching 60 Minutes with my mother. Had someone called me 12 or 24 months ago and offered me that role, I would have just. I would have said, I'll pay you. What do you want? What do you want me to do? I. I would have. That would have been. Literally, other than hosting a podcast with you, that would have been my crowning achievement professionally. And now I'm not. I'm gonna. I'm not gonna add to this chorus of unqualified people, this cosplaying journal. I'm like, the last fucking thing I want to do is wake up to social media after they. Just. After they hear that I'm joining. I'm having anything to do with this shit show right now.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. And you were scared of me, right? Were you scared of me? Not really.

[Scott Galloway]

Ish.

[Kara Swisher]

Ish. I just would have yelled at you. Like, are you.

[Scott Galloway]

No, no, no.

[Kara Swisher]

You know what? Can I just say, you're better than that. That's how I feel.

[Scott Galloway]

And quite frankly, I think I like the people there more than you do. I don't have a. You know, I actually.

[Kara Swisher]

I like some of them.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah. But I'm like, this is the last fucking thing I want to be associated with right now. Anyways. Anyway, you're stuck with me, Carol.

[Kara Swisher]

I know. I love it. I love it. You can do 60 minutes things here and you can do about penises, so you couldn't do it there. I'm just saying. Anyway, we're going to move on. Really interesting story, but I appreciate your business thing. I was so struck by it last night when you called me. Anyway, we're going to go on a quick break. When we come back, the SpaceX IPO approaches.

[Scott Galloway]

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[Kara Swisher]

Scott, we're back. I thought you did a great job sort of analyzing the SpaceX IPO. It really helped me and a lot of people were telling me that. But the company is expected to begin trading on the NASDAQ this Friday. What could be the largest IPO in history? A lot of moving parts. A couple things we've learned in the last few days. SpaceX has set its share price at $135, giving the company a valuation of roughly 1.77 trillion. You said it would be under 2 trillion. It won't be fast tracked onto the S&P 500. This is a new development after the index decided not to change its rules for these meg IPOs. Thank you. They probably got a lot of pushback from people. And there's more. SpaceX also made a major deal with Google, selling off its seed core. Google will pay SpaceX $920 million a month over the next three years for computing power. That includes access to at least 110,000 Nvidia chips. Elon was smart to grab those. This is similar to a deal that SpaceX recently made with Anthropic. So it's becoming an infrastructure provider. Essentially. Google, which is already an investor in SpaceX, everybody is by the way, is calling this a short term timely agreement to ensure they can keep up with surging AI demand. They will go get their own stuff later and they're not going to rent it. Talk about what's happening now and what you see happening in the cause it's the next week and, and the deal and we're going to talk a lot about the IPO on Friday obviously. But right now, going into it, how are you looking at it?

[Scott Galloway]

It's just so interesting and my, my judgment is clouded because I've been so wrong about Elon Musk's adventures and in the market and I haven't fully appreciated what a meme stock he is and everything he touches. So look, Alphabet agreed to pay SpaceX almost a billion dollars a month for compute Capacity from XAI data centers. What's interesting is that they overbuilt and it ends up that's fine because they can just rent the capacity out to someone else at probably a higher price than they'd originally anticipated. Look, SpaceX's current multiple, it's going out at 94 times revenues. The deal would value a deal that would total at least 1 trillion in additional market cap from. If you just valued this. What it should be, should trade up versus its competitors. Even being generous, what does it matter for Alphabet? It owns a 6% stake in SpaceX, which it purchased in 2015 and they did this when the company was valued at just $12 billion. So 6% of a 1 trillion in market cap is about 60 billion or more than 5x.

[Kara Swisher]

And remember when Yahoo had the Google stake, that was one of the big things they got out of it anyway. They had a big stake in Google

[Scott Galloway]

by them agreeing to buy purchases Compute. When you look at the Multiple, for every dollar they spend on compute, they're technically getting 5 back in the increase in the value of their stake in SpaceX.

[Kara Swisher]

Right? Yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

So we talk about these circular deals, but this one looks like a no brainer for Google. So Look, I think SpaceX's multiple will deflate dramatically as revenues grow. But the point stands, Alphabet has a vested interest in SpaceX's revenues going up and then, and then. Look, I think in the last just seven days, maybe 14, there has been a dramatic vibe shift.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, interesting.

[Scott Galloway]

And that is this study that came out at mit that said 95% of CFOs are stating that they're not getting the return they'd initially anticipated.

[Kara Swisher]

AI in AI. Yep.

[Scott Galloway]

I was on a webinar hosted by Section talking about AI. In the comments I would describe as. Whenever people come in and talk about the brave new world of AI, it's like a giant fucking eye roll. People are really in the business world are starting to sour on the brave new world of AI. And this won't be the same litmus test directly as Anthropic or OpenAI. And I'm curious if you sense this, but I sense a little bit of like, you know what this is beginning to feel like? Bullshit. The job apocalypse everyone's been predicting is not here. The notion that this is going to change absolutely everything. The idea that we're going to have one person companies that could be billion dollar unicorns, Remember that one I had the CEO of Lilian, he said AI's ability to accelerate drug discovery is vastly overhyped. I Just wonder if people are beginning to say, okay, this is beginning to feel a little 99. It feels like there's been a tangible vibe shift around AI in the last few weeks.

[Kara Swisher]

And then how does it affect the SpaceX IPO? Because there's star, there's other businesses in here. Is it just because this is an AI ipo?

[Scott Galloway]

Well, the AI that's got attached to it, as I refer to affectionately as a money furnace, is. I mean there's no doubt he's saddled. He's turned a great space business into a company hemorrhaging money because he's going to try and fund and play catch up in AI. What's interesting is it looks like he's got a ripcord here in the form that he's now renting out his infrastructure. But nothing feels or says froth in a market like a 94 times revenue valuation.

[Kara Swisher]

Right, but is that Elon or AI? That's the question. Is it just the Elon ness of it?

[Scott Galloway]

I think the answer is yes. I think the Elon plus AI plus rockets.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

In the rocket business or the Starlink business is a great business, but my God, 94 times revenues.

[Kara Swisher]

So what happens? Give me like the. The day of the week after and the six months after. Everyone is predicting trough after, like pretty quickly after, relatively quickly after, not immediately.

[Scott Galloway]

You know, I've gotten this so wrong, Kara, but I. People have called me and asked me to participate in the IPOs. They've got allocation. I said I wouldn't get near SpaceX. And if you do, I would sell on the first trade. I think SpaceX is about to hit a 10 year high on the minute it goes public, meaning it'll be all downhill from there. I just don't see how it just even with Elon and AI and Rockets, I don't see how it adjusts.

[Kara Swisher]

And he's going to put robots everywhere, cars, all the promises are still that and they're tough ones. They're tough promises.

[Scott Galloway]

He's got 100%. The one I'm most or least sanguine about, or least pessimistic on is anthropic because the momentum is so dramatic.

[Kara Swisher]

There's. So you'd buy into that?

[Scott Galloway]

I would buy into the ipo. I'm not sure it'd be a long term hold based on the valuations going at and OpenAI. I think that's. I think if, if one of them struggles and could be a broken IPO, I think it could be OpenAI. I think the momentum is so negative.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. SpaceX is a conglomerate, so it's harder to tease apart.

[Scott Galloway]

And Elon, it's Elon investors. I mean one of the reasons you might be seeing a decline in the crypto market right now is all of those people are selling to buy into the SpaceX IPO. I mean you're also probably going to see a decline in the larger market for tech stocks because I think so much capital is going to be sucked up by these guys. But Elon has, look, it's a cult and it's the same. I wonder what's going to happen to bitcoin because that has a culty feel to it. And I think a lot of Elon Stans are bitcoin holders and are going to fund their SpaceX purchases with sales of bitcoin.

[Kara Swisher]

Right, right. So that's another thing. Yeah. So anyway, so we'll. What happens. We'll be talking about it on Friday but so you say it goes out at 135 and it drops because they're having some punitive stuff if you sell it too quickly too. There was some.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, there's all sorts of lockups that people are being asked to commit to. I think Elon and his banks will probably create enough artificial scarcity to manufacture a pop. But I think 6:12, five years down the road. Five years is tough. I wouldn't get near this thing. And if you are, if you do get allocation look at the first trade, consider getting out on the first trade

[Kara Swisher]

and the index hurts it. Right. The lack of being in the index

[Scott Galloway]

funds now, well, that would have been additional demand out front. But you know, every IPO up until now has not been in the S and P so technically that shouldn't hurt. And there was complaints about it being, you know, you were being forced by it. If it went into the S and P because of the people index funds, it'll be super interesting. But 94 times.

[Kara Swisher]

I know, okay.

[Scott Galloway]

Amazon, incredible company. A lot of people think it's overvalued. What's a trade up four and a half times revenues.

[Kara Swisher]

I like that you like math still after all these years. Anyway, interestingly speaking of what you were just saying, Donald Trump is looking into the government stake in AI companies. Oh, buy at the top so American people can quote, benefit from the success of AI. He says leaders of all the big AI companies are coming to the White House as early this week to discuss the idea. I mean is such a socialist thing. OpenAI and the White House are in ongoing talks about government stake according to cnbc. This is something that Sam Altman has been floating for a while. He needs the help. As you were just noting, Altman was in D.C. last week and met with Senator Bernie Sanders, who's been pitching a similar plan because he's, you know, a socialist. Sanders is proposing a sovereign wealth fund creating a one time 50% tax on all on the stock of AI companies, giving the public a direct ownership sake. Talk to me about this because I don't, I don't love it. I feel like.

[Scott Galloway]

Like what?

[Kara Swisher]

I get that, for example, the government gave a loan to Tesla when it was in trouble and didn't get anything back for it. And Elon got all the juicies, but that's what the government is there for. And they got their loan paid back, but they didn't get a stake. And I think that was okay. But I don't know. What do you think?

[Scott Galloway]

It is very easy. Once you get elected and everyone thinks you're great and you have power to start thinking you can control industrial policy and start picking winners and losers. It is very tempting. That's socialism. You control the means of production. When you do that and you start believing you're better than the private market and the full body contact violence of capitalist private markets, you end up with warehouses in Ireland full of unsold deloreans and Air France. It does not work. If you want to support an industry like the CHIPS act, everyone gets the same opportunity and the same subsidies. If you want to support the EV market and you give tax credits and subsidies, everyone's available to it. When you put a golden share into US Steel or invest in intel, you have decided you're smarter than the market. You are always, always wrong. This is socialism. This is cronyism. It never works for the economy. At the same time, Bernie Sanders is equally wrong. Taxes that are industry specific don't work. They came up with the same nonsense idea around oil and gas when they were printing money in the 70s and 80s. Because then what happens? Is Microsoft an AI company? If we start producing podcasts with AI, are we an AI company? Is Apple an AI company? We need a more progressive tax structure that taxes our most successful companies. Whether it's anthropic or whether it's Apple or whether it's Novo Nordisk or whether it's Eli Lilly. We need a more. Yeah, but when you go industry specific, taxation doesn't work because then capital starts picking industries based on taxes. Not where the greatest return or innovation is. It is bullshit populism going after a specific industry. It creates A ton of bureaucratic unnatural acts across capital allocation.

[Kara Swisher]

Why AI? Why not? Why don't we own like the hot dog for instance?

[Scott Galloway]

What about cigarette companies? Shouldn't.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, I mean, what else can we have?

[Scott Galloway]

I love cigarettes.

[Kara Swisher]

McDonald's. Americans like McDonald's.

[Scott Galloway]

Let's have a more progressive tax rate for McDonald's and Anthropic and OpenAI.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, why not others?

[Scott Galloway]

That's it. Industry specific taxation doesn't work. And if you want to invest in native industries or orphan industries or industries that have strategic importance, fine. But when Donald Trump, a failed business person gets into the business, like MRNA

[Kara Swisher]

technology, which they took away, stuff like that's already getting a lot of private funding, but it needs government funding.

[Scott Galloway]

The CHIPS act made sense. It makes sense. But everybody gets access to it, right? Every company. You're not picking winners and losers. And so just as, just as Trump is trying to pick winners, that is no better nor any worse than Sanders trying to pick losers and deciding what

[Kara Swisher]

into the White House to do. Because he needs the support. Right. It gives him support, gives him a little bit of stable support. Stable support.

[Scott Galloway]

The biggest bailout since the banking industry bailout will be the following, but it'll be positioned as growth. There will be some sort of government backed debt offering or backstop for AI companies who can't afford the infrastructure spent they have committed to when it's clear these valuations are not going to hold up. And also Trump realizes his entire economy, he has bet on AI, the biggest bailout that'll be positioned as a quote unquote growth opportunity for the U.S. government.

[Kara Swisher]

The taxpayer will hold it back.

[Scott Galloway]

Right. Trump. Trump will. Trump will position as I'm a smart businessman, we have an opportunity to invest in this. It is going to be a bailout.

[Kara Swisher]

We'll be holding the bag. Holding the fucking bag. They want to swear to God.

[Scott Galloway]

We'll privatize the gains and socialize the losses. Because Trump thinks he's smart and thinks he's a good business person.

[Kara Swisher]

Always make such bad deals. Oh, I just am like, no, no, no, let them die. As you said go. We're talking about plane. We were talking about airlines. You're like, just let them die and something new will happen. Just like you're saying about 60 minutes

[Scott Galloway]

new dumb money will show up and say, I want to start an airline called, you know, Hooters. I mean there's no shortage of people who desire to start airlines.

[Kara Swisher]

Hooters airline would be good.

[Scott Galloway]

There was a Hooters airline, was there?

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

You didn't know that.

[Kara Swisher]

Did you fly?

[Scott Galloway]

There was a Hooters airline.

[Kara Swisher]

What?

[Scott Galloway]

No, I've never. I've never been in a Hooters. Actually. I'd like to go.

[Kara Swisher]

I have been in a Hooters because the wings are very good. Let me say they're excellent. Excellent wings. Actually. The ladies are really nice in the Hooters.

[Scott Galloway]

They do a great job, from what I understand. They do a great job.

[Kara Swisher]

They are very nice. The ladies of the Hooters are nice. There's a wonderful story about a gay guy, a comic, going into Hooters when he was his father brought him there to try to man him up. And the ladies immediately understood what the kid was going through and were sweet to him. He said, I will love Hooters people the rest of my life because my dad was trying to man me up. And they understood that I was gay and made me feel wonderful and gave me delicious wings. Anyway, here's to the Hooters ladies. All right, let's go on a quick break. We come back. Siri gets a makeover.

[Scott Galloway]

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[Kara Swisher]

Scott, we're back with more news as we tape. Apple is planning to announce a Siri overhaul at its annual developers conference. Oh my God. You think? The new Siri features a chatbot style app and uses Google Gemini technology and AI powered web search. Siri will be able to understand personal data and analyze on screen content and users will be able to return to their prior conversations. A conference is the last of Tim Cook's tenure before he hands the reins to John Ternus. There was a good story about how behind they were. You know, Tim saying they were behind on AI and not doing enough. I think Siri has been one of their worst things they've ever done. It's so useless. I was walking here from the subway. I was in Manhattan this morning doing some meetings and I gotta tell you Scott, like it couldn't call Amanda, like it can't do things. It sucks. Siri sucks. So you know, and I'm not going to be happy that it just is workable at this point. I'm just, I find it useless and I think Apple has really missed a boat here for many years, for decades even. Your thoughts?

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, we've talked about this. I mean it's right up there with the cybertruck for like the biggest product fails and that's unusual for Apple. The rebuild Siri runs on a custom 1.2 trillion parameter Gemini model under a deal worth approximately a billion a year to Google. And it's a three tier routing system that handles queries on device for simple tasks. Apple's private cloud for Moderate requests and Google's Nvidia B200 GPUs are used for heavy reasoning and they're claiming that new capabilities are multi step commands, persistent conversation history synced via icloud and an on screen awareness this it's being launched as a standalone app for the first time and they've delayed the overhaul twice. The original AI boss left the company before it shipped and critics warned that Apple is surrendering AI to Google the same way it's rendered search. And deepening the reliance on a competitor I would argue was a smart move because of the licensing deal. And John Ternus, he might switch direction and want to put his mark on this thing. It's a big, It's a maker. I don't know if it's a make or break bet for Apple, but it's important because as of earlier this year they were the only big tech company whose capex decreased from last year. I'm not sure that's a bad thing, but if you think about a market, I mean I accidentally turn on Siri by hitting the wrong button on my phone 10 times a day, which means it is the most most accessible AI in the world. If I'm constantly bringing up AI accidentally on my iPhone, that means it's the most, it's the most accessible AI in history. And for them not to be figuring out a way to get some of that AI juju, you know, it feels like a missed opportunity. Even if it means outsourcing all of it to someone else. They should be the front end and Siri is arguably at this point I wonder if Siri needs a rebrand because it's, it's come to be emblematic of something that just doesn't work.

[Kara Swisher]

It doesn't work. And I do put a lot of trust in Apple in terms of privacy. I'm not worried about interacting with it as much as I am. Like you load up everything into AI and I don't. But I feel I trust Apple, but it's incompetent. It's like having it's a bad assistant. I can't believe it took this long for Tim to have this assessment, but one would imagine it's critical going forward, especially if they're going into glasses and things like that, that you have this thing that just does what you ask it to do on a basic level. You know, there's AI in everything now and so much of it is so bad, I do think. And it's a missed opportunity because they're so good at everything else.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, the best experience I've had with Apple AI happened this morning. I was working out and as always, I was listening to my mix of ELO and REM and NXS and Cap Cut. For some reason, I have the app Capcut on my phone and Amelia, it's said, learn more about Capcot's editing features. And I'm like. And I just instinctively went, oh God, fuck off. And Siri responded, I won't respond to that.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, yeah, it does that when you curse at it. It totally has to.

[Scott Galloway]

It was chastising. It kind of made me laugh out

[Kara Swisher]

loud when you called them stupid.

[Scott Galloway]

When I called, I won't respond to that.

[Kara Swisher]

Which I do on a daily basis. It was like, I'm sorry you feel that way.

[Scott Galloway]

So I've been saying to everyone, I won't respond to that. Anyways, that's the best experience with Apple I have had.

[Kara Swisher]

Anyway, good luck, Apple make it better. We have very low expectations that you. All right, Scott, one more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails. Ray Ban Meta Glasses Take the friction out of travel. Move through the world with your hands free and your head up.

[Scott Galloway]

Hey Meta, where's the nearest metro station?

[Kara Swisher]

Closest metro to you is Union Square, about three blocks away.

[Scott Galloway]

Hey, Meta, text mom, I'm getting on the train now.

[Kara Swisher]

Sending message. Juggle your itinerary. Take calls and listen to music with open your audio. No digging for your phone, no stopping for a map. Just you and your glasses. Ray Ban Meta Iconic style meets Meta AI. Available at Walmart and other authorized retailers.

[Scott Galloway]

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[Scott Galloway]

Why wait?

[Kara Swisher]

Ask your doctor.

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[Kara Swisher]

Okay, Scott, some wins and fails.

[Scott Galloway]

You go first.

[Kara Swisher]

Okay, the win. I was just struck by this. There's all these movies that people are going to the movies for obsessions and backrooms, which is started on YouTubey kind of things. But they're wonderful. I think people really like them. I don't think just because they start on YouTube they have to be bad. But domestic box office crossed a billion dollars last month, a number not seen since before COVID which is interesting and that's without a Marvel movie, which I think is nice. There's a lot of really, really interesting things out there that are doing well. Lots of different interesting movies. The big winners right now are the Michael Jackson biopic Michael, which I have not seen because it doesn't include some other stuff about him I think needs to be there, and the Devil wears Prada 2 starring Kara Swisher, of course. But it's just nice. You're seeing a lot of that. And I do, I've noticed. I've gone to the movies recently. I know you don't, but I hadn't and now I am because I want to see them in the movie theaters. And there's a couple of movies I do want to see in the movie movies theaters, including the next Top Gun, David Ellison. I think you do. Let me pay you a compliment because I never do. You make a marvelous Top Gun movie and I like your Star Trek work and Mission Impossible. My fail is the 60 minute thing because it's so unnecessary and stupid. And I know reporters I agree with you can be a little bit self serious and pompous and stuff. Like in this case they really are right. And they really are right. This is so dumb. And if they can't answer the question why did you fire competent people? If you can't actually even answer it internally, there's something wrong with you. And at the same time, my one favorite phrase that I'm using a lot now. And poor Nick had when he was leaving with that fraught meeting with Scott Pelley. He said as he was leaving, he sort of flounced out because he was getting fried by Scott. And Scott is a tough guy. He said, enjoy the bagels. Some people from 60 Minutes said they're going to make secret T shirts called Enjoy the bagels, exclamation point. And I just enjoy that. But I don't enjoy any of the rest of it. I don't. I think it's sad and it's unnecessary and stupid. So anyway, I like it. Enjoy the bagels.

[Scott Galloway]

There you go. Enjoy the bagels. So, look, my win is the. The death of higher education has been greatly exaggerated. Applications are up, but that's how I win. My win is our great public universities. One of the most underreported stories in America right now, I think, is that the market is finally disciplining higher education. And that is families are waking up and realizing that paying a half a million dollars for a bachelor's degree is a luxury good masquerading as an investment. And applications to our flagship public universities, which are a much better value, are exploding. The University of Texas at Austin received more than 90,000 applications, up 25% year on year. Why? Applications at places like the University of Virginia, University of Michigan have surged.

[Kara Swisher]

Record labels, my son's there, Alex is there.

[Scott Galloway]

The university, my alma mater, UCLA, gets 160,000 applications. They get the number of a small city. And why are they doing this? Because we're coming to an uncomfortable truth, and that is, after your first job, you know, people, People care that you got into a good school, but they don't care if it's a good school or quote, unquote, an elite school. They just want to know that you went to a school. And they also care whether you can just do the work.

[Kara Swisher]

They're also great schools. Let me just say for Michigan, it's substantively less expensive than Louis School, UC

[Scott Galloway]

San Diego and nyu. I'm sorry to tell you, substantively, University of North Carolina. Yeah, I mean, these are outstanding schools that, guess what wasn't cheap.

[Kara Swisher]

Can we just point out it wasn't cheap, but it was substantively more. Less expensive.

[Scott Galloway]

It was less expensive. I'm not saying it's a good value. I'm saying it's a much better value. It is. And the ROI gap that you're referring to is staggering. At many flagship state schools, an in state student can graduate with tens or even hundreds of thousands Less debt than access. And access comparable employers, alumni networks and graduate school opportunities. You know, the elite schools have spent 30 years turning themselves into luxury brands. And the public flagship spent 30 years building capacity, research and outcomes.

[Kara Swisher]

Did you see what I sent you? The numbers for those elite schools have gone up like over 100,000 each for each year. It's crazy.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, it is crazy. Yeah. So look, the new American dream isn't getting into Harvard. It's getting rejected by Harvard and then going to Michigan or Texas, landing the same job and using the quarter of a million dollars you saved as a down payment on a house. And I ship post higher ed all the time because I think me and my colleagues have been drunk on scarcity and reflect this dangerous trend towards rejectionism where we feel good when we turn away 90% of our applicants. Similar to a head of a homeless shelter writing that he or she turned away nine and ten people last night. We are public servants, not Hermes bags. But I do think our great public universities are doing their level best. You go to the University of Wisconsin of Madison and you see exactly what you should see. It's not the Ritz Carlton Madison. The buildings are a little tired and hagg and there's thousands of students floating in and out of their classes. And it's a bunch of middle class kids from Wisconsin and Minneapolis who are not freakishly fucking remarkable. Some of them were captain of the middle class team, most were not. Most are socially conscious. Most have not figured out a freshwater startup to bring potable water to Rwanda. They're just good kids looking for great futures. A lot of our public universities are doing exactly what they're supposed to be doing. And folks, when you hear someone saying oh, our daughter, we're thinking that she doesn't need education because of AI or higher ed, that means she just got a 22 on the ACT. Higher ed has never been more important. Critical thinking, social responsibility, getting along with others, relationships, getting your heart broken, breaking other hearts. If you are one of the 1/3 of American American public that has access to higher education, trust me on this, it is a really solid plan B. Especially if you can go to one of our great public universities who are continue to follow their mission.

[Kara Swisher]

Can I put in a little plug for public schools in general? My kids are both in public, my little kids. And I have to say I feel so good about them and they're great and they're doing really well.

[Scott Galloway]

I went to public school, kindergarten through graduate school and the generosity of California taxpayers and the vision of the regents of the University of California are literally why I'm here with you now. And my total tuition. First off, acceptance rate at UCLA, 74% was one of the 26% that didn't get in, but I reapplied, and they let me in because they had that kind of capacity and bandwidth. My total tuition, five years undergrad, two years graduate school, $7,000. I showed up to UCLA with a 1982 Volkswagen Rabbit and $300, and I got through all five years and all two years of graduate school with no money, with student jobs and $15,000 total in debt.

[Kara Swisher]

Amazing. Amazing. And now they want you to be Andy Rooney.

[Scott Galloway]

There you go.

[Kara Swisher]

Anyway, I really appreciate it. That's a great one, Scott. Is that your fail? That's your win. What's your fail?

[Scott Galloway]

That's my win. Thanks. My fail is Ferrari's electric car.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

This is a rare misstep from one of the world's great brands. I feel like Ferrari announcing an EV is like Maker's Mark, my favorite whiskey brand announcing it's launching bottled water. It might make sense, it might even be profitable. But something important just died at the Ferrari.

[Kara Swisher]

People are mad at Ferrari. People are.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, for God's sakes, nobody spends a

[Kara Swisher]

half a million for people to not know, right?

[Scott Galloway]

It's like text ruins fucking something else. Nobody spends a half a million dollars on a Ferrari because it's a 50. They buy it because it makes irrational noises that trigger a primal, masculine, wonderful instinct in the male brain. The engine isn't a feature. It's the product. And luxury is about scarcity, emotion, and theater. And an electric Ferrari is becoming a very expensive appliance. Nobody puts a poster of an appliance on their bedroom wall. Nobody wants to give you a random oral sex because you have a hot appliance. Maybe a sub zero, but only if you own the home around it. Anyway, anyways. Don't know how I got here. The challenge is in engineering. Every competent automaker can build a fast EV. The challenge is replacing 80 years of Italian heritage built around noise, vibration, and mechanical drama with software. Them going electric is like.

[Kara Swisher]

Say it looks like a Honda.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, it's like Rolex launching a smartwatch. It might sell, but you've confused the source of your value proposition. This is one of the great brand mistakes of 2026.

[Kara Swisher]

You're right. It really even. I looked at it and I was like, that's not a pretty car. And Ferrari be pretty. Like, you know what I mean? It was, like, so simple. Yeah, I think it was a Jony I've misstep in that regard. Anyway, we want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business, tech, or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com pivot submit a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT. Elsewhere in the Kara and Scott universe, I did a show about sports and in this case, the World cup this week on on with Karis Fisher. I'm talking about the World cup, which off later this week with the US as one of the co hosts. I talked to a panel of experts, including New York Times sports correspondent Tarek Panja. We talked about the crazy ticket prices and also the fears that ice will ramp up enforcement, among other things. Let's listen.

[Tarek Panja]

A lot of those people will be soccer fans, will be football fans, as we call them here. They'll be coming from all over the world, all be in the United States hoping to go to games. I remember last summer, the US Hosted the Club World cup and there were Brazilian teams there, for example. And I talked to some fans of Flamengo, which is Brazil's most popular team, who were living in Boston now. They were going to go in convoy to watch the games last summer. And at the last minute, they thought, hang on, this might not be a good idea. We don't want to be so visible driving in this big convoy of Brazilians to this soccer match.

[Kara Swisher]

It was really good. And guess who asked the question. Scott Galloway. They love your question. You'll like the answer, Scott. I appreciate it.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah. But you talking about sports is like Greta Thunberg reviewing steakhouses.

[Kara Swisher]

I get it. I mean, it's a good, it's a good, you know, they, I let them talk. I just ask questions.

[Scott Galloway]

I'm sorry. It's like a cat breaking down the Westminster Dog Show.

[Kara Swisher]

It just, I try.

[Scott Galloway]

It's like, it's like RFK talking about vaccines. It's literally the, the world came off its axis.

[Kara Swisher]

I tried. I think I did a good job. Job. I did. I can't do it again.

[Scott Galloway]

I think it would be easier for a nun to review only fans. I just.

[Kara Swisher]

Anyway, you helped me a great deal and they gave a good answer.

[Scott Galloway]

You called me and you said, you said, you have to do me a solid. And I thought it was going to be something big. And you're like, I'm interviewing the head of FIFA. You or someone, you have to ask a question.

[Kara Swisher]

Reporters on the World Cup.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, like, I can do that easily. By the way, ticket prices. I'm obsessed with the World Cup. I went to Russia. I went to LA in 94. I went to Russia. I went to Qatar. I'm going to this one. Granted, it's the final, but category one final seats, which are good seats. But to go to the final, the ticket price, the face value is $38,000.

[Kara Swisher]

I know, but then it's like 100 and some.

[Scott Galloway]

Go. England. It's coming home, Kara.

[Kara Swisher]

It's going to be Spain. They said. They say Spain is the.

[Scott Galloway]

Spain's amazing.

[Kara Swisher]

No, they said Spain's gonna win. They said he had a kid. They said Spain. All of them agreed Spain was gonna win.

[Scott Galloway]

And I had no.

[Kara Swisher]

I was like, okay. No, they said Spain. Anyway. Anyway. And I don't even know what that means. Oh, and I know there's some new player there, young player. And this is the last thing for Messi and some other person. Who was the second person?

[Scott Galloway]

Ronaldo and also Harry Kane.

[Kara Swisher]

There's a last. This is their last show, right? Correct.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, they said the last time, but it looks like this does look like you have some changeover. Changeover. But you also have Mbappe. You have.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, no, now we're talking about the

[Scott Galloway]

gentleman you referred to as Lamina Mall, who was scoring goals at the age of 17. I took my son to a game and I looked at him and I felt bad. I'm like. In a disparaging way. And I'm like, that kid's younger than you. I'm like, you better get something going on. That kid's younger than you.

[Kara Swisher]

That's enough sports.

[Scott Galloway]

That's insane.

[Kara Swisher]

That's not for Cara. Okay.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, wait, I'm sorry. He joined FC Barcelona at 16.

[Kara Swisher]

Okay, go find another friend for this. No. Cara doesn't care. The lesbian doesn't care.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, my God. He's literally the only unicorn to come out of Europe. He is the European unicorn. His left foot.

[Kara Swisher]

I don't know what you're saying.

[Scott Galloway]

He's carrying a nation of 48 million people on his left foot.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, my God. You're not. You're literally. You keep talking. Okay, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot. Enjoy yourself this week, Scott. You have the SpaceX, IBO and the World Cup. Be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back on Friday.

[Scott Galloway]

Today's show was produced by Larry Neiman Zoe Marcus, Taylor Griffin and Todd Wiseman. Aaliyah Jackson engineered the episode. Thanks Also to Dubros, Ms. Savarian, Dan Shalon, the Shock Cross. Vox Media is the executive producer of podcast. Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. We'll be back later this week for a breakdown of all things technology, tech in business.