ABC Pulls Jimmy Kimmel, Pam Bondi’s Free Speech Mess, and Trump Sues The New York Times

Summary

Pivot Podcast Summary

Episode: ABC Pulls Jimmy Kimmel, Pam Bondi’s Free Speech Mess, and Trump Sues The New York Times
Air Date: September 19, 2025
Hosts: Kara Swisher & Scott Galloway
Podcast: Pivot (New York Magazine & Vox Media)

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on escalating political and corporate interventions in media, free speech controversies, and mounting cronyism in business deals under the Trump administration. Kara and Scott discuss the ripple effects of ABC pulling Jimmy Kimmel off air after controversial comments about the Charlie Kirk shooting, reactions from government officials, the chilling impact on journalism, the paradoxes of "cancel culture," and broader implications for American democracy and the media landscape. They also cover Trump’s defamation lawsuit against The New York Times, Pam Bondi’s free speech comments, the attempted TikTok deal, and major tech/industry moves (Nvidia–Intel collaboration).

Tone: Outspoken, irreverent, sometimes profane, and deeply concerned for American norms and free speech.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. ABC Cancels Jimmy Kimmel After Charlie Kirk Joke

[05:00–13:00]

• What Happened: Jimmy Kimmel’s show was yanked indefinitely after a segment on the Charlie Kirk shooting. Affiliate groups and ABC parent Disney caved to public and political pressure.
• Brendan Carr (FCC Chair) threatened the network’s broadcast license, calling Kimmel’s comments "the sickest conduct possible" ([06:04], Kara).
• Kara’s Reaction: “They are quashing free speech…this is a problem with Brendan Carr, who's always been a problem…” ([07:29]).
• Scott’s Analysis: Bob Iger will be remembered as "Neville Chamberlain in a cashmere sweater, minus the dignity" ([08:24]).
• Viewer Impact: Kimmel’s key demographic is small and aging, but the principle goes beyond ratings.

Notable Quote

“Bob Eicher is gonna go down in history as Neville Chamberlain in a cashmere sweater, minus the dignity.” – Scott ([08:24])

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2. Political Interference & Free Speech Crisis

[11:01–16:38]

• Kara reads Brendan Carr’s past pro-free-speech statements, highlighting hypocrisy:
  • 2019: “Should the government censor speech it doesn't like? Of course not...”
  • 2023: “Censorship is an authoritarian’s dream.”
  • 2022: “Political satire is one of the oldest and most important forms of free speech…"
• New Irony: Carr is now using his government office for overt political censorship.
• Scott: Administration is “full oligarchy now…This is full autocracy. They're not even hiding it.”

Notable Quotes

“You’ve always said, no, [democracy] is dying in the full light of day.” — Scott ([08:51])

“This was a shit rolls downhill kind of thing.” — Kara ([08:09])

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3. Pam Bondi and the Expansion of Speech Policing

[15:04–16:29]

• Pam Bondi (Attorney General): Advocated targeting "hate speech," saying law enforcement would cuff people using it ([15:04]). She later tried to walk back the comment after blowback.
• Tucker Carlson (rare agreement from both hosts): Warned this is the “most justified moment for civil disobedience" if hate speech laws are enacted.
• Scott’s Take: Bondi’s and Carr’s moves signal authoritarian overreach: “The attorney general is now threatening to target people…that's an authoritarian government.” ([16:38])

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4. Trump’s Defamation Lawsuit and Broader Media Crackdown

[21:09–24:38]

• Trump: Sues The New York Times and Penguin Random House for $15 billion.
• VP J.D. Vance: Urges public to report “Charlie Kirk critics,” echoing cancel tactics they once decried.
• Kara: “They are relentless… anticipate their next move. I think it’ll be NBC, then CNN. They’ll continue to go at The New York Times.”
• Media Landscape: Oligarchs and Trump loyalists buying up distressed outlets, creating risk for remaining independent journalism.

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5. Should Economic Boycotts Be the Next Step?

[16:38–21:09, 24:25–26:32]

• Scott proposes a "national economic strike": Suggests the top 3% of US earners could protest by cutting spending—"Take the economy’s growth down for one month by 1% in protest."
• Skepticism: Kara doubts wealthy Americans will act, noting the comfort and disengagement of elites from political risk.

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6. The Future of Media: Streaming’s Resilience and New Frontiers

[26:32–31:45]

• Broadcast TV’s Decline: Both agree network TV is dying—“Nobody's watching the TV. They're watching it on YouTube, Reddit…” — Kara ([26:57])
• Scott: Predicts ousted hosts (Kimmel, Colbert) will thrive on streaming, possibly with larger, younger audiences.
• Rise of Independent Media: Podcasts and new media will siphon influence; regulatory efforts unlikely to suppress all speech online.
• Admiration for Don Lemon, The Bulwark: Cited for their fearless, hard-working journalism.

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7. Reflections on Double Standards, Identity Politics, and the Media Backlash

[31:45–33:42]

• Kara observes: The attacks are finally hitting “straight white guys”—which is prompting greater outrage among previously indifferent groups.
• Scott disagrees: Didn’t perceive this angle but acknowledges Kimmel's cancellation is igniting outrage.

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8. Broader Geopolitics & Tech: China, Putin, and the Chip Wars

[42:18–45:36]

• Putin Attacks NATO: While US is distracted by domestic scandals, Russia escalates aggression.
• Nvidia–Intel Collaboration: Discussion of the $5 billion stake—Kara questions if this is industrial policy or cronyism.
• Scott: Cautions against consolidation reducing competition, wants DOJ/FTC oversight.

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9. Trump’s TikTok “Deal”: Cronyism and National Security Theater

[48:56–54:23]

• Trump postpones TikTok ban again. Negotiates a sale to political allies (Oracle, Silverlake, a16z); government takes a board seat.
• Kara: “All Trump supporting people...That gave me pause.”
• Scott: Calls it “a shit salad with shavings of shit on it.” ([50:08]); likens the process to “Putin carving up commodities in Russia” ([51:55]).
• Both skeptical: The deal ignores Congress, national security risks, and is pure cronyism.

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10. Predictions: A Wave of Mergers Ahead

[60:34–64:30]

• Scott forecasts: An unprecedented period of mergers & acquisitions, as mega-cap companies flush with cash and unchecked by regulatory scrutiny begin buying undervalued competitors.
• Possible targets: Disney, Warner, legacy media.
• Apple buying Disney discussed as a plausible scenario.

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11. Meta-Notes, Banter, and Lighter Moments

• Parking Lot Metaphors: Scott obsesses over the demolition outside his Nashville window, likening it to US society ([02:08], [16:38]).
• Personalities: Admiration for Don Lemon, Mayor Pete, and jokes about personal ambitions and the mayoral race.
• Parenting & Identity: Kara and Scott reflect on family, LGBTQ+ rights, and generational changes.
• Running Gags: Profane asides about previous Zoom scandals; playful jabs at each other’s fame.

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• “...shit salad with shavings of shit on it.” — Scott ([01:13], [50:08])
• “Democracy dies in darkness? No, it’s dying in the full light of day.” — Scott ([08:51])
• "Brendan Carr, to me, should be the focus of this...this is a problem with Brendan Carr, who's always been a problem." — Kara ([07:29])
• "The only thing that moves the needle...is some sort of national economic strike." — Scott ([16:38])
• "Jimmy Kimmel will start a YouTube channel and probably have a bigger audience." — Scott ([27:43])
• "You really want Ellison controlling CBS, CNN, Paramount, and TikTok?" — Scott ([55:04])
• “I think these people are going to be relentless until they are stopped at the voting booth.” — Kara ([24:10])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• ABC Kimmel Fallout: 05:00–13:59
• Carr’s Hypocrisy, Free Speech: 11:01–16:38
• Pam Bondi and Hate Speech: 15:04–16:29
• Trump Media Crackdown: 21:09–24:38
• Economic Strike Idea: 16:38–21:09
• Media’s Future (Streaming): 26:32–31:45
• Predictions (M&A): 60:34–64:30
• TikTok Mega-Deal: 48:56–54:23
• Banter/Personal Tones: Interspersed throughout ([02:08], [16:38], [31:45], [69:08])

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Conclusion

This episode captures a moment of profound disillusionment with US media, democracy, and economic policy, yet also points to the resilience and adaptability beyond the legacy institutions—be it new digital platforms or the enduring drive for free expression. Scott and Kara, with their trademark intensity and irreverence, detail both grim consequences and potential strategies for resistance, while highlighting the farcical and dangerous currents of contemporary American political power.

Listen if you want:

• Unfiltered analysis of the latest blows to free speech and media independence
• Insights into the intersection of business cronyism, tech, and politics
• Nuanced predictions about where media (and protest) go from here
• Razor-sharp banter and world-weary optimism in the face of chaos

Transcript

[Kara Swisher]

Support for this show comes from Smartsheet. Have you ever wondered about all the incremental steps it takes to launch a rocket ship or maybe get a race car around a track or perform a life changing surgery? These feats of human ingenuity are executed by many people taking many steps that lead up to one big goal making the seemingly impossible possible. Whether you're organizing a team, scaling a business, or sending a rover across the solar system, Smartsheet is a work management platform that helps all those details turn into one big leap. Smartsheet work with Flow. Learn more at smartsheet.com Vox support for this show comes from Strawberry Me. Be honest. Are you happy with your job or are you stuck in one you've outgrown or never wanted in the first place? Sure, you can probably list the reasons for staying, but are they actually just excuses for not leaving? Let a career coach from Strawberry Me help you get unstuck. Discover the benefits of having a dedicated career coach in your corner. Go to Strawberry Me Unstuck to claim a special offer.

[Scott Galloway]

Welcome to Only Murders in the Building the Official podcast. Join me, Michael Cyril Creighton as we go behind the scenes with some of the amazing actors, writers and crew from season five. The audience should never stop suspicious anything. How can you not be funny crawling around on a coffin? Yeah, that's true. Catch Only Murders in the Building Official Podcast now streaming wherever you get your podcasts and watch Only Murders in the Building streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney for bundle subscribers terms apply. The news today is just sort of a shit salad with shavings of shit on it.

[Kara Swisher]

Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher and I have not been canceled yet. You.

[Scott Galloway]

I think the keyword there is yet.

[Kara Swisher]

As if.

[Scott Galloway]

As if, yeah. I'm Scott Calloway. How are you, Kara?

[Kara Swisher]

Still. Unless they rename you because they don't like that name.

[Scott Galloway]

I'm sitting here in Nashville, massively jet lagged. I was in London about 22 hours ago and I'm in New York and now here and I'm watching across. I'm staying at the. Where am I? The Grand. No, I'm staring at the Grand Hyatt and the JW Marriott and across the street is this parking lot being torn down by these two massive cranes.

[Kara Swisher]

That's fun to watch.

[Scott Galloway]

Oddly relaxing. Yeah, I've just been sitting here thinking about, you know, metaphors with the US Society. But anyways, I'm in Nashville.

[Kara Swisher]

Where are you I'm back in dc. I was in Ann Arbor yesterday doing my class at the University of Michigan and also interviewing Buttigieg. Yes, yes.

[Scott Galloway]

What are you. I'm sorry, what are you teaching in Michigan?

[Kara Swisher]

Justin Scott Galloway 101. That's really. I just talk about. That's all I know, David.

[Scott Galloway]

Unlocking my heart is an enigma.

[Kara Swisher]

Will you come talk to the class? I think they would like that.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, 100%.

[Kara Swisher]

No remote remotely.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, remote. Yeah, I would do remote.

[Kara Swisher]

You have to look at the camera so people look at your pretty face.

[Scott Galloway]

No, I'm sorry. I'm looking literally at this parking lot being tore down. Next thing you're going to want me to stop masturbating in the middle of our podcast. Leave me alone.

[Kara Swisher]

All right, Listen to Ben. Listen to it. I think I'm the only person who didn't care that he did that. I saw him recently at cnn.

[Scott Galloway]

You know, remote work is just going to have some externalities, folks. I mean.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, I was like, is that okay? What? I mean, it was not in good taste, I would say, but I wouldn't have, say, fired him.

[Scott Galloway]

No, no, no, no, no, no. Good taste. Good taste immediately implies that he made a conscious decision to masturbate with the camera on. He didn't. He didn't realize he was at home. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say he's not the first person to masturbate at home. I don't think he thought, I know what I'm going to do. I just thought, he's like the lawyer. I'm talking about habeas corpus. I think I'll yank one out.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, that was. Those were. Those were the simple days.

[Scott Galloway]

Such innocent times.

[Kara Swisher]

Such a simple time.

[Scott Galloway]

Such innocent times.

[Kara Swisher]

Listen, you have to stop looking out the window and pay attention. There's a lot to get to. You know what? Saul has a video he watches of diggers and this is what it's like. You're like a three year old boy. It's like amazing.

[Scott Galloway]

Anyway, well, you know my favorite tiktoks now. Have you seen these amazing, like massive pit bulls and they have some guy lay out like a raw turkey. Oh, my God, a chicken bone, eggs, tomatoes, and like a pineapple. And they say, okay, Brutus, and Brutus just eats all these things whole.

[Kara Swisher]

Scott, you're so weird. I'm like watching flour arranging and cooking and you're like a guy who makes French onion soup.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, trust me, I've watched much weirder stuff.

[Kara Swisher]

I figured I'll figure it Out. Leave your video on so you don't masturbate today. I'm not in the mood.

[Scott Galloway]

I've watched much weirder stuff and then done my impersonation of Jeffrey Toobin as I watch it.

[Kara Swisher]

Okay, we're going to leave Jeffrey Toobin out of this because we got a lot of news to get to, as usual. I mean, Jesus. Okay, let's go. ABC is pulling Jimmy Kimmel live off the air indefinitely after a comedian made a joke about the Charlie Kirk shooting, which is actually factual. Let's listen to exactly what Kimmel said.

[Scott Galloway]

We hit some new lows over the weekend with the MAGA gang desperately trying to characterize this kid who murdered Charlie Kirk as anything other than one of them and doing everything they can to score political points from it. In between the finger pointing, there was grieving. On Friday, the White House flew the flags at half staff, which got some criticism. But on a human level, you can see how hard the President is taking this. My condolences on the loss of your friend Charlie Kirk. May I ask, sir, personally, how are you holding up over the last day and a half, sir? I think very good. And by the way, right there, you.

[Kara Swisher]

See all the trucks? They've just started construction of the new.

[Scott Galloway]

Ballroom for the White House, which is something they've been trying to get, as you know, for about 150 years. And it's going to be a beauty. Yes, he's at the fourth stage of grief construction.

[Kara Swisher]

By the way. Kimmel posted on social media after Kirk was killed, sending his love to the Kirk family and to all victims of gun violence. FCC chair Brendan Carr, who's gotta be the most unctuous toady in a sea of them in the Trump administration, blasted Kimmel in an interview with right wing podcaster Benny Johnson on Wednesday, calling Kimmel's comments the sickest conduct possible, which is inexplicable. He suggested ABC's broadcast license was at risk, threatening, we can do this the easy way or the hard way, which gives me every indication his penis is very small. Nexstar, the owner of several ABC affiliates and the company seeking FCC approval for its $6.2 billion acquisition of rival media company Tegna. They need an out because they're over 39% ownership across the country, announced it would drop Kimmel's show. Sinclair Broadcast Group, which is also owned by conservatives who own ABC stations, followed demanding Kimmel apologize and make a personal donation to the Kirk family and Turning Point usa. Kirk's organization, Disney CEO Bob Iger and the company's TV Jeep, Dana Walden then made a decision to take Kimmel off the air. Trump celebrated the move as great news for America and urged NBC to pull the plug on Seth Meyers and Jimmy Fallon. I don't know where to fucking begin here. Is Bob Iger the worst person on earth at this moment? I think possibly, and I'm not really clear what happened here with them. Secondly, nexstar and Sinclair are now telling us what we can do and don't do and they can take it off the air. They own the company. Fine, whatever. Brendan Carr, to me, should be the focus of this. And Donald Trump. This was a shit rolls downhill kind of thing. He essentially threatened them and with we can do this the easy way. I'm excited for the lawsuit that will ensue because of this. They are quashing free speech. And I'm not talking about nexstar and sincl, they're just horrible toads. This is a problem with Brandon Carr, who's always been a problem, who has had millions of quotes saying we should never do this. I can read them over and over again. And then, of course, it began with Donald Trump, who's been attacking Kimmel for a long time and predicting he would be fired. Scott, initial reaction when you heard the news.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, I think Bob Eicher is gonna go down in history as Neville Chamberlain in a cashmere sweater, minus the dignity. I mean, unfortunately, Neville Chamberlain was actually a pretty decent man and thought he was doing the right thing. And he's become a bit of a footnote in history as someone who's, you know, defines the word appeasement. But I mean, one thing, one thing's clear. I doubt, I doubt Bob Iger's really happy he came back. I think this is a terrible footnote on his legacy. And when, you know, these people bent a knee, they kind of broke the dam. So Sherry Redstone paid basically a vig to get her deal done. Iger did. And now you have this guy, Brendan Carr. These people aren't. We don't have a directorate of an FBI. We don't have an FCC chair. What we have is people who are acolytes of President Trump and are just enacting his will and hope that once they get out of office, he'll carve up bytedance or some other company and make them rich. This is full oligarchy now. It has nothing to do with the government. They control all three houses. They essentially have a very sympathetic Supreme Court. And I kind of admire. They're like, all about, we're just going to do everything we want. We're an autocrat. They're not even. You said something that always struck me that I love the Washington Post statement, democracy dies in darkness. And you've always said, no, it's dying in full light of day. And so look, they could make an argument. I said this about Colbert. I don't think this is the same here. Let's just talk a little bit about Jimmy Kimmel. Disney is not losing a lot by canceling Kimmel. Only 12% of its viewers are age 18 to 49. And at an average of just 228,000 viewers within the demographic. And by the way, that's down 10% from the same period last year. It's down two thirds by 2015. Overall, the show averages about 1.8 million viewers a night. That means about 1.6 of that, 1.8 are 50 plus. So look, it's not. And the show has probably one hundred and eighty.

[Kara Swisher]

That's a different decision.

[Scott Galloway]

It's one hundred and eighty employees. Having said that, if the folks. If Bob Iger had decided, you know, I'm a billionaire. I've had a wonderful life, in no small part because of the rights of free speech and appreciation for basic capitalism and appreciation for fidelity to the law. You know, I'm already a billionaire. Maybe it's time I actually tried to do the right thing. He decided not to do that. He wants to get the stock price up and I think just get the hell out of Dodge or get the company sold. I don't know.

[Kara Swisher]

He wants to sell it to Apple. From what I. That's what it feels like to me. I want to read some Brendan Carr quotes because I think we should listen. Iger. I don't even want to speak to him again at this moment. And I really like Bob Iger. We know each other very well. I've interviewed him dozens of times. But I am so embarrassed for him. I'm embarrassed for his wife, who runs a journalism school. I don't know what she's going to say to her students today. I don't want to drag into it, but she runs a journalism school, so she's got some explaining to do, I think on behalf of her husband. It's not her decision, but nonetheless, it's awkward. I would say Iger could have quit. He could make excuses all he wants about shareholders. I know he had some right wingers on his ass quite a bit, including Elon Musk, including, I think it's Ike, Palm, Mutter, et cetera. It doesn't matter. He had A duty to something bigger here and is one of the few people who probably could have done this and pulled it off correctly. I know he was very upset when Nazis were and worried about danger when Nazis were protesting outside of Neo Nazis were protesting outside of Disney. I get all that. I get the shareholder thing. I get worried about safety. But at some point, stand up man. Like this is just like ridiculous and he could do it. Let me focus on Brandon Carr though because this is really the, the real problem here. All the right is now saying, oh, Sinclair can ask anything of anyone. Of course they can. They're terrible people and they want to. That used to happen in the old days when television first started. But let me read some Brandon CARR things from 2019. Should the government censor speech it doesn't like? Of course not. The FCC does not have a roving mandate to police speech in the name of the quote, public interest. Then he said in 2023, 2023, free speech is the counterweight and is the check government control. This is why censorship is an authoritarian's dream. And then back in 2022, President Biden is right. Political satire is one of the oldest and most important forms of free speech. It challenges those in power while using humor to draw more people into the discussion. That's why people in influential positions have always targeted it for censorship. J.D. vance. Today, everyone, please congratulate Marco Rubio, the host of ABC's new Late Night show. I mean whatever that alleged couch fucker says is always stupid. I don't think he did fuck a couch, by the way. Let me just be clear and this is what's the problem here. And then today Carr also then said fcc. He said Sinclair has every right to demand that Jimmy Kimmel donate to Turning Point usa. He needs to shut the fuck up. I honestly don't know what else to say about this guy. It's gonna be lawsuits. He is crossing the line as a government official making these kind of threats due to speech. I don't know. He's the one we need to focus on despite the fact that Iger is such a disappointment.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, just I want to talk about. I mean it's going to be easy to talk about how insanely hypocritical this is and then we should try and move to. I've been going down a rabbit hole around what we can do about it in 2023. Fox described cancel culture driven largely by woke ideology. Tucker Carlson asked his audience, if you want to know how free your society is, just ask a really basic question. Am I Allowed to make fun of charge. Can I mock them? Can I tweet that not with violence, but with words? And if you can, you're in a free country. If you can, it's not. That's Tucker Carlson. Representative Jim Jordan claimed in 2021 that cancel culture is the most dangerous thing happening in our country today. In 2020, Trump told the RNC the goal of cancel culture is to make decent Americans live in fear of being fired, expelled, shamed, humiliated and driven from from society as we know it. In a 2020 campaign rally, Trump said the unhinged left wing mob is trying to vandalize our history and punish anyone who does not conform to their demands for absolute and total control. Pam Bondi targeting hate speech on the Katie Miller Podcast we're going to play.

[Kara Swisher]

This is Attorney General Pam Bondi is cleaning up after the mess after remarks about free speech pissed off people on both sides. Let's listen to it and then you can comment on it. She made this on the Katie Miller Podcast. There's free speech and then there's hate speech. And there is no place, especially now, especially after what happened to Charlie in our society. Do you see more law enforcement going after these groups who are using hate speech and putting cuffs on people so we show them that some action is better than no action? We will absolutely target you, go after you if you are targeting anyone with hate speech. Now, to be fair, as you know, Tucker Carlson was one of the ones on the far right who was pretty fired up about this. But in the way, that's different. Let's listen.

[Scott Galloway]

You hope that a year from now, the turmoil we're seeing in the aftermath.

[Kara Swisher]

Of his murder won't be leveraged to bring hate speech laws to this country.

[Scott Galloway]

And trust me, if it is, if that does happen, there is never a.

[Kara Swisher]

More justified moment for civil disobedience than that, ever. And there never will be.

[Scott Galloway]

Because if they can tell you what to say, they're telling you what to think. There is no, there's nothing they can't.

[Kara Swisher]

Do to you because they don't consider you human.

[Scott Galloway]

They don't believe you have a soul. A human being with a soul. A free man has a right to say what he believes. Not to hurt other people, but to.

[Kara Swisher]

Express his views can also hurt people with your speech. That's fine too. I mean, anyway, we'll get to Trump in a minute, but go ahead. What your point is.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, okay, so hate speech. What Jimmy Kimmel said. I thought I had the wrong clip. That qualifies as hate speech. I mean, there are the First Amendment. It basically says, all right, it's not absolute. If you incite violence, if you defame people, that's not legal. But quite frankly, we've said much worse things about Trump than what Jimmy Kimmel said. And this notion. So, okay, could hate speech be President Trump should be incarcerated at a minimum and possibly executed while in prison. Is that hate speech? Well, Charlie Kirk said that about Biden. So we're going to have. The attorney general is now threatening to target people and that's an authoritarian government. So it's pretty clear what's going on here. CBS has been sold to the Ellisons and NBC and ABC are basically under threat of being silenced and potentially losing their business because the acolyte of Trump running the FCC is threatening to pull their licenses and the nation's top cop is threatening to target people based on what appears to be a bar for hate speech. That is the following speech that disparages or that is critical or even mocks in a humorous way. So I'm sort of, I mean, this is just. So we're going to spend the next few days distracting from Epstein, talking about and validating what we all know. This is a violation of law which may not be upheld or take a long time in court to be upheld. With the current Supreme Court, we know it's directly contrary to everything or one of the things that's been key around free speech in our country. That makes our country great. And we're going to spend a ton of time talking about it. And what I want to talk about and what I've been researching, getting up at three in the morning with jet lag is what we can do about it. And I used to think, well, people will rise up, they'll vote in 26, okay? I don't know how much damage will be done by then. People will be outraged. But the bottom line is the majority of people, I'm here in Nashville, went out to get some coffee, are kind of just going about their lives and don't see a big difference. So to call on them to think they're going to do something. Yeah, you hope so. But so far, I mean, the markets are up today. What I think we need to think about, and I think the only thing that moves the needle here, I'm increasingly convinced, is some sort of national economic strike. And I was going pretty deep into the rate cut yesterday and some of the economic reports, and get this, the top 10% income earning households now are responsible for 50% of the spending, which basically says what we all know income inequality is out of control and it's rich people have all the money, but the top three and a third percent are responsible for 25% of all spending. And I don't think consumers and people who have money realize how much power they have. They have more power now than Senators Warren or any comedian on the left. I think what we're going to need to do, and I've been thinking about this myself, I was doing a ton of research this on this morning. I mean there's the meaningful and there's the profound. The meaningful would be to or the trivial. I should say cancel your Disney subscription, okay. And then we're going to see a bunch of screenshots of people who've canceled their, their Disney plus subscription. Oh my God, the whole fucking parking lot just collapsed. Kara. I wish I had that on film. Anyways. Jesus, that's a metaphor. Did it just happen? Did they just cancel Anderson Cooper? Anyways, what I'm beginning to think about personally, because I don't want to wait till 26, I have business relationships and capital with an in Silicon Valley bank, JP Morgan, bank of America, Northern Trust, Goldman Sachs. I'm contemplating transferring all of my assets to Lloyd's or hsbc. I'm trying to figure out if there's someone we could call on who's a real leader, who could rally the top three and a third percent responsible for 25% of the spending to in say December, not buy Christmas presents, maybe stay at home, not go to St. Bart's maybe you know, try and reduce their spending by 10, 20% which quite frankly really doesn't impact the top up 3 and a percent income earning households, that's just, that is literally pure consumption. And trying to take the economy, if you took the economy's growth down for one month by 1% in protest, that's what you're saying, say look, I'm not going to fund a move towards an autocracy.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, unfortunately the people you're talking about feel very comfortable and that's what they do, they keep those people comfortable. But before we get to that, I'll just note the issue is this group of people is not stopping. And before we get to fixes, you need to know what's coming. Trump kept up his litigious streak this week, filing a $15 billion defamation suit against the New York Times and four of its reporters, as well as publishing house Penguin, Random House. And as comedian, as you just noted, and as comedian Margaret Cho put it, no matter what he cancels, he can't cancel himself off the Epstein list. Let's keep that in mind. Now Bondi tried to walk it back a bit because she was getting so much flack, largely from maga. Freedom of speech is a sacred in our country. Will never impede upon that right. But her comments came as the Trump administration officials, including Vice President J.D. vance are calling on people to report Charlie Kirk Critics. These people are so hypocritical that they just don't even care anymore to even hide it. Let's listen to what Vance said while he was hosting the Charlie Kirk podcast.

[Scott Galloway]

Civil society, Charlie understood this well is not just something that flows from the government. It flows from each and every one of us. It flows from all of us. So when you see someone celebrating Charlie's murder, call them out in hell call their employer.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh good Lord. This is exactly what Charlie said not to do like that everybody there's evil speech is fine. He even said it in one of his speeches. He said this is what, what greats our country. This is so ridiculous. Trump is also now designating antifa as which means anti fascist as a terrorist organization despite the fact that it's an ideology, not an organized group. So that's another thing. But there are relentless. They will next go after NBC presumably because Trump puts a roadmap up. Ellison is trying to buy CNN which should not be allowed but under Brandon fucking Carr it will be. Everyone who needs something from the should realize they are a target. Everyone that needs them from the government and even those that don't hell call your employer, that kind of thing. A vice president who was just so inadequate to every task he is given. That's what's going to happen. So one of the things you should realize is try to anticipate their next move. I think it'll be NBC then cnn. They'll continue to go at the New York Times that they will lose but it'll still take time and effort. From the New York Times they've already got the Washington Post under the overly steroided looking Jeff Bezos with some very bad facial changes he's made. But this is. It is. Come on, you'd think you were that rich. You'd have a better Just my opinion about that. I don't like it. Looks good.

[Scott Galloway]

I think he looks great.

[Kara Swisher]

No, I think he looks shiny.

[Scott Galloway]

I think he looks great.

[Kara Swisher]

He looks like one of those housewives.

[Scott Galloway]

I think the facial hair. The facial hair of Pete Buttigieg and the chest and the pecs of Bezos and I'm rethinking everything, Kara.

[Kara Swisher]

I know you are. I know, I know. Listen, I know you like a trained daddy. So any other thoughts on this? I mean, what do you. I understand what to do, but I don't think. I think these people are going to be relentless until they are stopped at the, at the voting booth. And that is the only place.

[Scott Galloway]

I don't. I don't know if we can. I don't know, we can wait if it's another year, first off. Okay, so let's look what's going on.

[Kara Swisher]

Cause that's what they're targeting next to the inability of people to vote against them, which people want to do.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, Normalizing the National Guard in cities. You have cbs, NBC and abc. CBS has gone to Ellison and NBC and ABC are now under threat of having their licenses pulled. And then you have. So what did we have? We saw that a concentration of power and consolidation of media in the media that counts basically Alphabet and meta has led to a dramatic uptick in rage, a dramatic uptick in teen suicide, and basically a coarsing of our discourse. Now we're seeing a concentration of what I call traditional media. Quite frankly, that symbolism is really dangerous because it symbolizes a move towards an authoritarian rule. It doesn't have that much impact because the reality is these are declining businesses with less and less influence. In a weird way, it's going to help some of the new media properties that are a little bit more fearless. I mean, if NBC and ABC just become kind of starched, whitewashed, scared. I mean, even msnbc, when I was on there and I said we elected an insurrectionist and a rapist and Mika was compelled to say that he was actually found liable for sexual abuse. When they have to do that, all that's gonna do is make these shows seem so fucking vanilla and boring that they're gonna turn to some of the new media outlets online and there's a lot of them and it's gonna put new wind in their sails. The issue I have is I just am kind of done. We know this is wrong. And I'm frustrated that there isn't more thoughtful strategic economic pushback because we know this is wrong. Look, this is pretty simple. That Kimmel clip was like, really? That's what got him removed. But let me ask you, what do we do other than wait for 26? What do you think we should do?

[Kara Swisher]

I think focusing in on media that can't be manipulated like this so easily. Of course lawsuits are always hanging over the head of everyone in media. But look, CBS is dying. Let's be clear, like away from all of this stuff, the fact that Trump is targeting the stuff that nobody watches anymore is kind of interesting. And Jimmy Kimmel, the late night, it's a whole plot on hacks that it's dying. Right? It's already in the zeitgeist. So late night is too expensive and doesn't have enough audience. Cable, same thing. Networks, forget it. Like I would think these companies would get out of the broadcast business like and say fuck you, Brendan Carr, do whatever you want with this. Because Nobody's watching the TV. They're watching it on YouTube, they're watching it on Reddit, they're watching it on, you know, wherever kids and not just kids, everybody's watching it. They're streaming. Are they going to try to regulate streaming now? They can't. They don't have that pull into streaming. So put Kimmel. If I was Iger, I would have put Kimmel on streaming. Just put him, okay, you don't like him here, let's just put him on streaming and cut costs and work.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, that's what he'll do.

[Kara Swisher]

Right? But I mean if I were Iger, I would have said let's.

[Scott Galloway]

Iger won't do it. Jimmy Kimmel will do it. Jimmy Kimmel has a big opportunity. He's going to take his 180 people, he's going to take his best 15 and he's gonna start a YouTube channel.

[Kara Swisher]

Or same thing with Colbert. Right? That's the thing. Like let's just make our things and be very careful. You know, they will. Lawsuits will be their next thing. That's what obviously. But there is way too much media that is growing for them to control all of it. And so I think like, look, let's just, we gotta just burn those ships and move on. Like that's the thing. Cause they're, they, this is how Trump lives. He lives in the 80s in his head. So CBS, ABC and NBC are the be all, end all. But they're not, they're not influential anymore and we should just move along and make our stuff and like we should grow and conservative outlets should grow whatever it happens to be. You know, I was sort of. Although I think Tucker Carlson's really something's going on with him. That when he articulated was absolutely right.

[Scott Galloway]

Tucker, I mean, okay, we all both have Irishness of Tucker. I think Tucker right now is the most likely nominee for the Republican nomination. I think he has been very good lately.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, he's consistent at least. Right?

[Scott Galloway]

Well, about housing, it comes across as for young People. He comes across as intellectually honest. He comes across as courageous, not afraid to go against his own party. And I realize I'm talking our own book here. Our downloads are up 10% in the last 30 days. And guess what? Everyone from Megyn Kelly to Joe Rogan, you're going to see a lot. Increasingly, people turn to podcasts like the Daily, because the New York Times is fearless and does the work. You're just going to see media that is not scared of Brendan Carr or can't be controlled by Brendan Carr. Boom. Because people are really interested in what's going on, and they like Fearless. You know, I'll give you an example. Don Lemon.

[Kara Swisher]

Don Lemon's doing a great job.

[Scott Galloway]

Don Lemon is doing such a fantastic job. First off, I love people who just work really fucking hard. I was watching he's out and about.

[Kara Swisher]

For people who know. Explain what he's doing. I love this thing.

[Scott Galloway]

He's a man on the street. He's totally unafraid. He shows up to everyone with a mic. He responds thoughtfully. He's forceful, yet dignified. He's clearly working his fucking ass off. The reason I love Don Lemon is the same reason I loved Secretary or Love Secretary Clinton or Senator Klobuchar. It is just so obvious. These people work their asses off. They get up early and they think, how can I be great at what I do by just showing up over and over and over? Don Lemon must be working 14 fucking hours a day.

[Kara Swisher]

He's outside, he's running around. He wrote me. He's like, what do you think? I'm like, I love the Don Lemon industries. He's doing a great job, Great job, and everybody should watch it because he's actually. This is where he shines, I have to say. Same thing. Bret Stevens wrote a great piece. Karl Rove wrote a great piece. He's like, this is not good.

[Scott Galloway]

You know, who else is doing a great job? And again, I go back to the same thing. Regardless of AI or what happens to our economy, people who are curious and work really hard and try to be courageous and even take some risks and maybe they make mistakes, are still going to have great economic futures. The bulwark, Tim Miller. How are they putting out all that content all the goddamn time? I mean, I don't know who Tim's husband is, but he's not seeing Tim a lot because. Or Don's husband. These people are. They are working so hard. They're rising to the occasion. They're being totally unafraid. And you're going to see a massive. The continued. The acceleration of the flow. So it's not meaningful. What's most meaningful here is this represents a naked disregard for many of the laws and American principles that have given us so many freedoms and so much economic growth. But the actual tangible business level or it's not going to really decrease our inability to get good information. If Jimmy Kimmel launches Jimmy Kimmel Live now streaming or on substack or podcasts with great video production, it's gonna be. It's gonna get the same audience with more young people.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, that's right. That's right. Cause he's funny. Cause he's funny. That's what he's told. That's what he's incredibly talented. And by the way, you know, just like anyone, I also urge people to watch the episode. And Jean Smart gave an amazing statement on Kimmel. But there is a scene where she gives a speech. This happens to her. They want her to come someone, the woman she's very close to who got her where she is and she won't do it. And she ends up quitting on her dream of being a late night show host. But her speech is astonishing. And I would. They already presaged something like this happening. And so. And Tony Golan plays a sort of evil looking like Bob Iger type of person. And I have to say that it just really was prescient hacks was in the last season and it's coming back for another season. So anyway, good luck, Jimmy. One of the things though, I do think people are a little more upset about this. They're coming for the straight white guys. And that's something that is worrisome.

[Scott Galloway]

Say more. I hadn't even thought about that angle.

[Kara Swisher]

I mean, it's like, you know, listen, there's all kinds of attacks on Letitia James and everybody. A lot of black women cook at the Fed, which was untrue, et cetera. And so now they're coming for the straight white guys. And so I think a lot of people are like, hold on, what? Like that's the kind of thing that I think starts. I hate to say it starts to get people going and it shouldn't obviously, but they've been coming for.

[Scott Galloway]

I don't sense that at all. You have a better Spidey sense. That didn't even cross my mind.

[Kara Swisher]

I do. I think the trans people are like, oh, that's bad. But you know, black women, that's bad. But. And now it's like, what? Like, look at the reaction. It's overwhelming in the media. I mean, it's not, it's, it's indignant and angry.

[Scott Galloway]

And I don't think my sense is that the thing about Kimmel was with Colbert, and I believe this. I thought Colbert was an economic decision. Kimmel, when I mean, people just look at that clip and go, wait, that gets you canceled now?

[Kara Swisher]

And also that it came right after Brandon fucked up and they were just so. Carr said so.

[Scott Galloway]

And then when you have Pam Bondi, the nation's top cop, saying we're going to target people.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Scott Galloway]

You're not supposed to target people. You're supposed to find evidence of wrongdoing.

[Kara Swisher]

Sinclair and Nexar has every right to do this. It still makes them assholes and.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, and we have every right to cancel our subscriptions and not watch their programs and solve themselves.

[Kara Swisher]

By the way, their programming sucks. Anyway, we have to go on a quick break because when we come back, we have more ridiculous clown car activity. FBI Director Kash Patel faced Congress Support for Pivot comes from Quince Fall is in full swing, which makes it the perfect time to refresh your wardrobe in pieces that feel as good as they look. Luckily, Quince makes it easy to look polished, stay warm and save big without compromising on quality. Quince has all the elevated essentials for fall. Think 100 Mongolian cashmere from $50, washable silk tops and skirts and purple perfectly tailored denim. All at prices that feel too good to be true. By partnering directly with top tier factories and cutting out the middlemen, Quint's delivers luxury quality pieces at half the price of similar brands. It's the kind of wardrobe upgrade that feels smart, stylish and effortless. I've gotten some items from Quint. In fact I'm wearing several now, mostly sports stuff and they actually feel very luxurious and expensive. Much more so than the ones that are more expensive and cost double and triple. I mostly wear my Quint stuff to work out and just lounge around in. And I love it. It's very simple and beautifully tailored too. Keep it classic and cozy this fall with long lasting staples from quint. Go to quint.com pivot for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q-I-N c.com pivot to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quint.com pivot support for this show comes from Adeo. Addio is an AI native customer relationship management system built specifically for the next era of companies. It's extremely powerful, adapts to your unique data structures and scales with any business model. They say setting up Adeo takes less than a minute and in seconds of syncing your emails and calendar, you'll see all your relationships in a full fledged platform all in one. Rich with actionable data. Add IO can enrich your business with real time customized reports featuring valuable data points. And the best part is you can build AI powered automations and use its research agent to tackle some of your most complex processes so you can focus on what matters building your company, join industry leaders like Flat File, Replicate, Modal and more. You can go to addio.com pivot and get 15% off your first year. That's attio.com pivot support for this show comes from Upway. If you're tired of being stuck in traffic or watching gas prices climb higher and higher, you're not alone. There's a better, freer way to move through your day and it might just change how you feel about commuting. An E bike from Upway can give you that feeling of freedom, fresh air, no traffic, no stress. It's not just common good for your health, it's better for your wallet, your time and honestly, your happiness. Upway makes it easy. They offer top brands like Specialized, Cannondale and Aventon at up to 60% off retail. Every E bike is thoroughly inspected by a professional mechanic and comes with a one year warranty so you can ride with peace of mind. You can search by brand or style, book a call with a real human for help, or even stop by their showrooms in New York or LA. So go to Upway Co and use code PIVOT150 to get $150 off your first ebike purchase of $1,000 or more. That's Upway code PIVOT150. Go ahead. You won't regret it, Scott. We're back with more news. FBI Director Cash Patel testified for the House Judiciary Committee for two heated days this week. It was kind of ridiculous. Before questioning began, Patel used his opening statement to take credit for identifying Charlie Kirk's assassin and told the committee he wasn't going anywhere. It's probably true. Donald Trump doesn't fire incompetent people. When questioned on the Epstein files, Patel claimed he is barred from recent quarters from releasing all the documents. This is not so. Let's listen to a clip of Representative Eric Swalwell pressing him on the issue.

[Scott Galloway]

It's a simple question. Did you tell the Attorney General that the President's name is in the Epstein file? During many conversations that the Attorney General And I have had. On the matter of Epstein, we have reviewed. The question is simple. Who? You tell the Attorney General that Donald Trump's name is in the Epstein files. Yes or no? Why don't you try spelling it out? Yes. No. Use the Alphabet. Yes or no? No. ABC director, it sounds like you don't want to tell us. Did you tell the Attorney General that Donald Trump's name was in the Epstein files? Why don't you try serving your constituency by focusing on reducing violent crime in this country and the number of pedophiles that are legally harbored in your sanctuary cities in California.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, my God. He's such an idiot. He's. He's such an idiot. Like, it's. Just answer the question. Like, it's. I mean, things swallowed. It's just. Of course, a lot of this is theater, but. God, he's stupid. Like, that's. That's what I came out from. It.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah. It's just bad for the American brand when you see that sort of uncivil back and forth. I mean, a little bit of it is. A little bit of is. Is that the. These. These hearings have become not really doing their job. They're. They're more or less just a. I.

[Kara Swisher]

Mean, it was okay with rfk. I think that was actually helpful to see in that.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, I think so. This is just. I saw the whole thing, and I thought, here's another instant where people just feel bad about America because Director Patel is being incredibly disrespectful of people who are elected by their constituents. They are meant to provide oversight. I mean, they're his boss. They provide oversight for these agencies on behalf of the American people. And when he gets back in their face like that, he's playing to an audience of one. And I just found the whole thing really, really discouraging. The good news is, what's the name of the. I forget. The suspected murderer. What's the name of his family? Tyler.

[Kara Swisher]

Tyler Robinson.

[Scott Galloway]

The good news is, my understanding is the Robinson family has cleared a bunch of other crimes. That's a joke.

[Kara Swisher]

They turned them in. Yeah, that's a good joke.

[Scott Galloway]

I mean, they did the work of the FBI, and they're supposedly cleared 100% cash.

[Kara Swisher]

Patel is destroying the agency. And I'm certain.

[Scott Galloway]

I think the agency's stronger than that. I think it'll be.

[Kara Swisher]

Let's hope. But he's just. He's, you know, he's. He's just so dumb. Like, I get, like, so dumb. I don't even care about his stupid back and Forth. He's not even good at that. Like, literally, he's not good at any of it. And so, you know, whatever. He's just an incompetent. He won't be fired, just so you know. Neither will Kristi Noem. Incompetent. Neither will rfk. Incompetent and dangerous. Neither will.

[Scott Galloway]

But while we're all distracted and angry looking at this, the important shit is no one's noticing. I mean, you realize Putin flew attack drones now into Romania.

[Kara Swisher]

Yes, exactly.

[Scott Galloway]

I mean, it's just so funny. Trump's out there saying that Putin would have never attacked Ukraine. By the way, Putin is basically sending in attack aircraft into NATO countries now, and we're listening to Cash Patel make us look like assholes instead of immediately. Trump should be unified with Starmer. He shouldn't be at the Windsor Castle, in my view, getting a rub and tug from the Royal Family. He should be with Starmer. He should be with Macron, he should be with Holtz. And they should be essentially meeting very visibly, quietly, not saying anything. And then within, slowly but surely within the next 7, 14, 20 days, we should be jamming all sorts of military aircraft and material and hitting back very hard. Basically, Putin now has said, oh, they're so distracted and they're so weak, and this guy loves me so much, I can pretty much do whatever I want. And we're sitting here talking about same thing with Netanyahu. What a fucking idiot. Patel ism. You're right. And it's interesting. But meanwhile, Europe, meanwhile, Putin is flying attack drones over NATO.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, I think people are distracted and they aren't actually paying attention because as you said, as you noted, the stock market is up largely on the cut, which was expected. The cut was expected. But one of the things that was interesting was Nvidia investing $5 billion in Intel. Even Joe Car and didn't like this. The stake was worth about 4% of the company. As part of the deal, Nvidia intel would collaborate on developing chips for personal computers and data centers. Intel Stock jumped over 25%, not a surprise in pre market trading, by the way. Nvidia needs to focus on this because China's Internet watchdog has instructed companies to terminate orders for Nvidia chips, which is one of its bigger clients. What do you think about this? I mean, Joe Kerner was even like, does this feels like industrial policy or that he's trying to please Trump or create this national chip? Part of me is like, we do need to have stronger chip companies in this country. At the same Time this seems, I don't know, it feels very industrial policy, Soviet Union. I'd love to know what you think of this.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, I think this is the kind of thing that warrants if we had a DOJ and an FTC that hadn't been weaponized and a lot of people would argue there's still good people working there. The thing I don't like about it is I don't like in an environment as important as chips, I don't like the idea of these guys coordinating. And that is now at the same time you could argue Intel's a shadow of itself and needs to be bailed out. And the government's gone in, bought a stake. Now Nvidia's bought a stake. But the problem with your competitor buying a 5% stake is say some engineer from intel pops up and says, you know what, I think I can build the equivalent of a GPU hopper chip from Nvidia for 20% less. We just need a billion dollars. And they say, yeah, but one of our owners is Nvidia. You want the full body contact violence of capitalism. You want crazy out of control competition. So when these companies start buying, I mean people could probably fairly look back on Microsoft buying a stake in Apple.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, that's a very good comparative. Different political environment. Right.

[Scott Galloway]

But this is the kind of thing where I want really thoughtful economists and lawyers reviewing it and saying, is this likely gonna reduce competition across the most important high margin products we produce in America right now, which is these chips? So the honest answer is I don't know, but I think it at least warrants a pretty thoughtful review.

[Kara Swisher]

And will it get that?

[Scott Galloway]

So if you speak to Jonathan Kantor, he says there's still really good people at the ofTC and the DOJ, but in this environment it just feels like anything that sends stocks up the Trump administration likes and it's going to squelch.

[Kara Swisher]

I'm just trying to find the deal for Trump in here, everything he does with any chip steel. There seems to be a Trump family member there ahead of the deal to get their bid. Yeah, I don't even know. I would love to know. I would love some reporters to explain what happened here and how it happened, but seems like Nvidia is just jumping at whatever Trump says. I think Jensen Huang was at that really weird looking dinner in Britain with the King and Queen. Britain, that was one weird, weird dinner.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah. The more significant news with Nvidia is basically China has announced they're striking back and they're saying, okay, we're not going to buy any soybeans. So all you farmers who love Trump, you want a trade war? Fine. We'll go after your heart and love lungs and that as farmers. And two, they basically said, we're no longer going to buy Nvidia chips. They've even told companies to stop the integration of Nvidia chips because they've come up with their own.

[Kara Swisher]

So makes sense for China. That makes sense for China.

[Scott Galloway]

So these guys are basically everything that was supposed to happen, whether it was bringing back manufacturing, a combination of raiding Hyundai plants and putting a chill across any investment from South Korea.

[Kara Swisher]

These people are incompetent. Like, stop with the indignant. They're incompetent. Organize and vote them out. If they're going to try to steal the election, don't let them. Like, it's just, I don't want to really sit around and like, bemoan the situation.

[Scott Galloway]

I'm with you, sister.

[Kara Swisher]

We can't bemoan. No bemoaning. All right, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, new details about Trump's TikTok deal.

[Scott Galloway]

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[Kara Swisher]

Oh come on.

[Scott Galloway]

They called a truce for their holiday and used Expedia trip Planner to collaborate on all the details of the trip. Once there, Mike still did more laps around the pool. Whatever. You were made to outdo your holidays. We were made to help organize the competition. Expedia made to travel this episode is brought to you by FXX and Hulu. An all new season of Futurama is back. Blending heartfelt moments with razor sharp humor while accidentally saving the day. The Plan Planet Express crew is back, defying gravity and common sense. From the creator of The Simpsons comes 10 new episodes where the romance is hotter, the threats are bigger, and the action hits harder. Don't miss the all new season of Futurama. Watch it Mondays on FXX or streaming on Hulu.

[Kara Swisher]

Scott, we're back. I know this will shock you, but Donald Trump has extended the TikTok deadline again. I don't even know if it's illegal this time until December 16th. It's the fourth extension so far. For those keep score at home. We're also learning more about the deal. If it goes through. ByteDance would spin off US operations into a new company owned by investor consortium Oracle. Silverlake and Andreessen Horowitz are among the investors expect to own about 80% of the company. What a shock. All Trump supporting people. The company would have a majority US board, including a member appointed by the Trump administration. That gave me pause. And Trump just said at his news conference with UK Prime Minister Keir Starmer that the US is getting a tremendous fee plan. Plus is Vig for just making the deal. It's basically another payoff. It's going to go in the hands. There's all this question of what's really happening to the algorithm. I suspect that the Chinese will only go along if they're allowed to keep their algorithm. And if it's in this system, that's a problem. If it's not, that's a problem for the product. So I don't know. I feel TikTok is will go. I think Instagram and others will bypass it rather, rather quickly given all the sturm and drunk around this. Any thoughts?

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, the news today is just sort of a shit salad with shavings of shit on it. So this is effectively the whole point of passing a law signed by the President Biden passed by both houses of Congress was that TikTok prevents a defense threat. We have two thirds of our nation's youth spends time on TikTok every day, the average of an hour and a half so TikTok has more influence over our future business, nonprofits, civic and military leaders than NBC, ABC and CBS did during their height in the 60s. And as a result, people my age, or one of the impacts is people my age, 50% of us feel good about America. It's 1 in 10 Gen Z. And I think there's no doubt about it, it's the connection to the rage machine. But also I think in addition to the rage equals profitability, ByteDance has a vested interest, with coordination with the CCP of dividing us internally. So that was a threat. All of the government, all branches of government decided this is bad, let's ban it. And then the President decided, no, I'm not going to ban it, I'm not going to enforce it. And I think I can do a quote unquote great deal here. First off, this is such cronyism. So I would like, I'm hoping that you and I can play a role in getting the next president elected. And then I'm going to ask him to give me the license, the US license to lvmh because I'm really into Ramoa luggage. But that's exactly what this is. This is. I am going to use the power of the presidency to force a great company in terms of economics and upside to be sold to my donors. That's not how you do shit. You don't. That's literally we're in Russia where Putin carved up all of the commodities and companies and said, okay, you're a billionaire who's friendly to my interests and you're going to give me transfer money to my Swiss banking account. I'm going to give you the biggest nickel mine in Irkutsk and you can go buy premier leagues football teams and have yachts in the south of France. That's exactly what this is. You don't carve up companies and give them to your political allies. And then it's also not.

[Kara Swisher]

And ignore Congress, let's say you're also ignoring the law.

[Scott Galloway]

It's also cronyist. And that is, well, that's the croniest part. It's also socialist. Also someone from the government is going to be on the board here. What we're going to put, we're going to put Peter Navarro on the board of ByteDance. I mean that is socialism. That is when the government thinks they're smarter than private enterprise and tries to get involved in the means of production. That is a bad idea. In addition, the whole thing that started this was the defense threat of having the world's most elegant propaganda machine in the world. Implant a neural jack into the wet matter of America's yield. That was the whole point. And guess what? The one component of this in the deal is that we are going to license the algorithm, but they are still going to control it. So this is all of the bad taste of cronyism and socialism with all of the calories of a lack of doing anything about the true defense threat here. And he doesn't understand, he doesn't care. The silver lining here is I don't think it's going to happen. I think she is just, she is like, okay, pretend this guy is the physical embodiment of a cat on meth who can't stay focused on anything. Waste a bunch of time, go through this deal. We have till December and then we'll put it off again. This guy has shown Trump is not. Trump keeps blinking, blinking, blinking, blinking. But the deal, just to talk a little bit about the deal, the new entity would be created to control the new and separate American version of TikTok and the US companies. Oracle, Silverlake, Andreessen, Horowitz, all Republicans and other existing by Dance shareholders would hold a roughly 80% stake.

[Kara Swisher]

Also, like creepy old guys. Sorry, all three. Trump, Ellison, whatever. They really know they have their finger on the pulse of the young people. But go ahead.

[Scott Galloway]

And then the new company would have a majority American board with one member designated from the US government directly. Okay, thank you. Socialism. But again, the key, the only thing that matters here, in addition to carving up an amazing company and giving it to your Republican allies, is that it's very unclear who is still going to control the algorithm. Or mostly clear that the CCP is still going to have input into this algorithm.

[Kara Swisher]

Shit sandwich.

[Scott Galloway]

Like you said, Larry Ellison, if this deal goes through, which I don't think it will, it's only going to get richer. Because the most overvalued companies in the world right now are Tesla and probably palantir. Trading at 40 to 60 times revenues. ByteDance, which economically has operating margins of like literally like 30%. It's an unbelievable company growing really fast, is trading at two times revenues because of the overhang of geopolitical concerns. So these guys are about to, if they in fact do take control of it, are going to make tens of billions of dollars.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, which is why they're here.

[Scott Galloway]

So they're like pigs at the trough.

[Kara Swisher]

They're pigs at the trough.

[Scott Galloway]

Do you really want Ellison controlling CBS? CNN? No, Paramount and TikTok. So this is, this is. I'm more upset about this economically, we need like I, I don't support. I don't support Mum Dami because I'm a big fan of capitalism. I'm a big fan of full, fucking full body contact capitalism that creates violence, blood and competition and amazing products at a low price. That creates shareholder value and profits the likes of which no one has ever seen. And then the government gets their vig in the form of taxation. Not moving in and trying to pretend cosplay investment banker.

[Kara Swisher]

But did you see who he just met with? Let's not go after him because you've got Cuomo saying all manner of nonsensical things. Eric Adams is a corrupt.

[Scott Galloway]

I'm not going after him. I'm saying I think his socialist ideas are bad. I am not for socialism. When it comes from a Democrat or.

[Kara Swisher]

The President, what does it look like he's doing? He's tacking and listening to business people. He just met with Bloomberg.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, he's moderating. He's being. He's a smart candidate. He's modulating.

[Kara Swisher]

Yes, but not modulated. He's meeting with Bloomberg. That to me says a lot about that. He's willing to at least understand he's going to be the mayor of New York and not just agree.

[Scott Galloway]

And he's also toned down his comments. He's now said that he realizes things like globalizing Intifada are insensitive and he will no longer support those statements. He's a fantastic candidate. My point is the following. I don't like socialism when it comes from the left or the right. And this is. Is you want to talk about an embrace of socialism, Having a golden share in U.S. steel, where the government basically gets to decide.

[Kara Swisher]

Yes, that's what I'm saying. The only person who's being a socialist, Mamdani has never done anything. He's just talked about bringing vegetables to poor people. That's pretty much where he's.

[Scott Galloway]

You mean government sponsored food lines? Stores operated by the government.

[Kara Swisher]

He was talking about in neighborhoods that are problematic. It's like.

[Scott Galloway]

Or rent control such that we have no new development of housing in New York.

[Kara Swisher]

There's gotta be some.

[Scott Galloway]

I love that we're in an argument over the mayor's race.

[Kara Swisher]

No, no, I'm just saying. All I'm saying is he's done nothing. Trump has proven.

[Scott Galloway]

I agree. He's done nothing. That's his qualifications for mayor.

[Kara Swisher]

He's done nothing. Oh, come on, Come on, let's.

[Scott Galloway]

He's a fucking city councilman. Good for him.

[Kara Swisher]

And long line of people who've done nothing who are like, hello, Cash Patel. Hello. Come on.

[Scott Galloway]

I'm with you. I don't think Mom DH should run the FBI either.

[Kara Swisher]

He'd be better at it than Cash Patel. That's for sure. You'd be better at than. I wouldn't want you to have any kind of subpoena power. In any case, we need. We need to move on.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, my. You know what I have? I have sub penis power after literally.

[Kara Swisher]

Why did I say the words? Oh, my God, Why did I even say the words?

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, my God. I can't say.

[Kara Swisher]

If I said the word peonies, you'd make a joke, wouldn't you?

[Scott Galloway]

Literally. I'm looking at this parking lot. I gotta. Can we. Should I take a picture shot of this?

[Kara Swisher]

No, no, no. You should.

[Scott Galloway]

It's amazing. It's so much fun.

[Kara Swisher]

All right, we're gonna take one more.

[Scott Galloway]

Let's talk more about Gene Smart Gandami.

[Kara Swisher]

Who'S done nothing, versus Trump, who's, like, literally a communist at this point.

[Scott Galloway]

Anyway, my point is I don't. I'm an equal opportunity hater. Yes. He's done socialism and I love capitalism. Bring it on. Let's compete. American companies are the strongest companies in the world.

[Kara Swisher]

We know what these people are doing. They're corrupt, they're cronies. They are. They break first Amendment rules. Like, I'm just saying these people are actively shitty and we'll wait for Momdami.

[Scott Galloway]

Mamdani is, like, shitty and waiting.

[Kara Swisher]

Let me. He's not. I don't know. What if he's great? You're gonna eat your words. All right, Scott, one more quick break. We'll be back for predictions. Connections. I'm Ashley Graham, and as a parent, I know the back to school transition can be a lot when it comes to wellness. Ollie supports me and my family through it all. Kids. Multi is big in my house. It supports their immune system and they love to take it.

[Scott Galloway]

A win.

[Kara Swisher]

Win for everyone. Shop these [e-mail] or retailers nationwide. These statements have have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. Hey, pivot listeners, I want to tell you about a new podcast from the Box Media Podcast network called Access with Alex Heath and Ellis Hamburger. It's a show about the inside conversation happening across the tech industry. You may know Alex Heath from shows like Decoder and the Vergecast. And he's the founder of the Sources, a new publication about the tech industry and a contributing writer for The Verge. And you'll probably only know Ellis if you worked in Silicon Valley yourself. He's the former tech reporter turned tech industry insider, working closely with today's hottest startups. Their first episode features an interview with Mark Zuckerberg about Meta's latest smart glasses, the AI race, and what's next for the social media giant. You can find the Access podcast with Alex Heath and Ellis hamburger on, on YouTube or wherever you listen to podcasts.

[Scott Galloway]

What is up, people of the Internet? My name is Marques Brownlee, AKA mkbhd, and some of the biggest smartphones of the year are about to launch, including the brand new iPhone 17 is around the corner with a model you've never seen before. So on the Waveform podcast, myself and co hosts Andrew Manganelli and David Amell gather the biggest tech news of each week and then discuss at length everything we're excited about and sometimes things we're not so excited about about. So this time of year we like to call smartphone season. So if you're interested in hearing all the latest releases from Apple and Samsung and Google and others, be sure to check out the Waveform podcast on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. See you there.

[Kara Swisher]

Okay, Scott, let's hear a prediction.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, I gotta be honest, Kara, I don't think I'm thinking very straight. I was asked to do a prediction on Prophet G, and I'm like, I'm just out of sorts right now, and so I don't feel like I'm thinking clearly. The only prediction I could sort of muster is the following you have with Nvidia saying they'll take a 5% stake in Intel. That's like the sweat off their brow. It's just not a big deal. So if it. It's like these companies now representing 40% of the S&P, like, I don't know, 20 trillion in value. What you do when you're so. And I like to point this out a lot. I've been on a lot of corporate boards. When you feel like your stock is inflated in a bit at fully valued, which means our stock is overvalued for some reason, what you do is you go shopping because what you want to do is find companies that are undervalued because then the acquisition is accretive. If you go buy when you have a lot of money, when you're trading at 80 times earnings, if you buy a company that's trading at 20 times earnings, it's accretive right away. So it's like, okay, we have a Lot of money on our credit cards that may not be there in three, six or 12 months. Let's go shopping. And I think Intel, I was thinking about Nvidia and Intel and also a total absence of any sort of scrutiny or DOJ or antitrust concern. It all adds up to me to. I think the next two quarters are going to be historically good or the best in 10 or 20 years for M and A because I think everyone is going to say, well, we would have never even contemplated buying a company like this because the FTC or the DOJ would get in the way. Warner Brothers stock at this Kara, it was up 55% last week because the father of a rich kid increased his wealth by 90 billion in one day at the hands of AI. So you have so much money, such inflated earnings of companies who could make so many acquisitions that would be accretive that I would bet Goldman and JP Morgan are in the offices of the Magnificent 10 saying here is a list of 30 companies.

[Kara Swisher]

Let's go. That's a great prediction, Scott. What? That is a great prediction.

[Scott Galloway]

But a company that they would have never been able to acquire or never been able to afford to acquire. That's 10, 20 or 30 billion. These guys.

[Kara Swisher]

Give me one, give me one, give me one. You were blank. You Comcast.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, the thing is about Comcast though, it's controlled by the Roberts family. But that's an interesting, that's a really interesting idea. You could see, I don't know, there's just who are the biggest media companies that are still into Warner.

[Kara Swisher]

He should try to grab it from that.

[Scott Galloway]

You mentioned one you mentioned. Absolutely. You mentioned one. You mentioned Disney. Disney. Disney at this point is flailing and Bob Iger might just throw up his.

[Kara Swisher]

Arms and say Bob, out of his misery. Because I'm sure he's very agonized about this. Bob.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah. Okay. I think the market cap of Disney is $120 billion or something. You'd have to pay a premium. Call it 150. That's like a 5% dilution for some of these companies.

[Kara Swisher]

Apple.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, if Apple bought. I'm not sure Tim wants those headaches. But just to give you an example, if Apple bought Disney, Disney, it would be a 5% bet. So even if it didn't work and the thing ended up being 1%, it's not a career ending injury.

[Kara Swisher]

It would be a great acquisition for them at this point it's not that hard. They do a very good job at Apple TV with a lot of good shows. They need more Scale and that this huge amount of ip.

[Scott Galloway]

But Apple doesn't, Apple's been smart about that.

[Kara Swisher]

He's got to do something smart.

[Scott Galloway]

They like to build internally.

[Kara Swisher]

I know, but he can't build that. And he needs to look, they've got a lot of hair on that because are they in AI? Are they enough? They're phone sucks. They need something pretty and the President will let it happen. Since Tim was also at that dinner sucking up.

[Scott Galloway]

You can bet every investment bank, these investment bankers with these key relations are in there and like here's 20 companies we would have never suggested that you could buy and they're going to go, yeah, why not? It's kind of, it's almost free for them at this point. These companies are trading. You don't think Palantir is looking at every analytics? I mean Palantir is like, okay, we have a $600 billion market cap at a 10 billion. Jesus Christ.

[Kara Swisher]

How about they buy, they buy Disney and lop off ABC and let fucking Sinclair have it and do their shitty programming that no, anyone under 65 isn't watching. By the way, Sinclair, all your audience is dying. So good luck with that. This is just all these companies that have broadcast are just lop off abc. Just say, just let it go. Let it go.

[Scott Galloway]

I was so depressed. I literally sang it out last night. All I did was eat cash. I was on a plane. I, I last yesterday I heard about the news about Jimmy Kimmel and I thought, you know what, I'm just going to turn on Spotify, type in 80s. And I got back to the hotel in Nashville, I took a 10 milligram gummy and I just slept for nine hours.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, good. And I woke up and now you're staring at construction.

[Scott Galloway]

I woke up at 3am, went and worked out and I've been watching this parking lot being torn down.

[Kara Swisher]

As Kimmel said, it's one of the stages of grief. Demolition, construction, demolition, demolition. Anyway, let's bring Jimmy Kimmel on.

[Scott Galloway]

Jimmy, if you're out there, we like you.

[Kara Swisher]

We like you.

[Scott Galloway]

We like you.

[Kara Swisher]

You'll get lots of requests. I have interviewed him. I'm going to repeat post my interview with him.

[Scott Galloway]

But you always have to one up me.

[Kara Swisher]

I'm just telling you I've already been there. I've been everywhere, you know, where you go like, you know, Kilroy was here, Carol was here. All right, we want to hear from you. That's an old reference. Send us your questions about business, tech or whatever's on your mind. Go to ny.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh Wait, but Kaitlan Collins wants to interview me.

[Kara Swisher]

Go on Caitlin Collins show. I can't get another text from their people. You need to go on Caitlin as a personal favorite of me. Will you go on Caitlin Collins show?

[Scott Galloway]

Let's be honest. It's not about the brain. It's about the broad shoulders and the good looks.

[Kara Swisher]

No.

[Scott Galloway]

And the Bruce Dern, like, sexiness that she wants on her program. She needs to get a ratings up.

[Kara Swisher]

Just go on her show. She's a great. She does a great job.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, she does a great job.

[Kara Swisher]

She does a great job and she deserves your attention. Just. You can make other friends besides Anderson Cooper. I'm just telling you, I love AC.

[Scott Galloway]

If he gets fired, I'm going on strike.

[Kara Swisher]

Okay, you do that. I told him. I said, you know, be careful, Anderson. Anyway, we want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business, tech, or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com pivot to submit a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT. Elsewhere in the Kara and Scott universe this week, as I mentioned, just sat down with Pete Buttigieg, upcoming episode of on with Kara Swisher. I asked him a very important question about his future. Let's listen. Are you going to run for president again in 2028? Oh, I don't know. Please don't be coy. Come on.

[Scott Galloway]

I don't know.

[Kara Swisher]

Really.

[Scott Galloway]

It's 2025.

[Kara Swisher]

That's not very long.

[Scott Galloway]

Have you lived through the last nine months?

[Kara Swisher]

Yes, that's true. I got it. Tell you, that was better than the Gavin answer. Oh, that said, he said I could sleep in the Lincoln bedroom. So we know where he is on that. It's my greatest goal. Will you let me sleep in the Lincoln Bedroom?

[Scott Galloway]

Sure.

[Kara Swisher]

Okay. There we go. Anyway, it was really fun, actually. He's loosened up considerably, which is great because he's very charming. And the.

[Scott Galloway]

He was a real zinger. Are you running for Brosnan? He is running for Brosnan. Why do you think he's coming on with Kara Swisher? Why do you think he's. Why do you think he's too.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, I have to ask that. Well, I understand that, but you still have to ask it. Anyway, Kamala Harris wanted to pick him for vice president and didn't have the balls to do so, so to speak.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, it's good to know that now. Yeah, it's good to know that. That helps. That helps. That's good. The rumor I'd always heard was that it was Governor Shapiro and Then over the weekend, the Black Caucus went fucking crazy and she picked Mayor Pete.

[Kara Swisher]

That's what she wanted, Mayor Pete. She just didn't think they could take a black lady and a gay man. I guess that was her calculation.

[Scott Galloway]

Wow.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. Think she would have won with Mayor Pete or would have angered her?

[Scott Galloway]

I don't think it would have made a difference. And I love Mayor Pete and I'm going to be. He's one of, you know, there's like one of 12 candidates all support and give money to and see how the process plays out. I think Mayor Pete is an inspiration. How was, anyways, how was the interview? Any, any interesting things from.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, I asked him about him being a fake gay and about Tucker Carlson accused him of being not a real gay. Gay.

[Scott Galloway]

He's not a real gay.

[Kara Swisher]

Apparently he. Yes, a lot actually. He was, you know, he's, he's sporting a beard now, so he's looking.

[Scott Galloway]

He's not a real gay. Well, I'll say this. He gives a great head for someone who's not actually gay. Oh, that's wrong. Is that wrong?

[Kara Swisher]

That's wrong. In his jet lagged chest.

[Scott Galloway]

Wait, who cancels me for that? Yeah, I think he's fantastic. I, I really hope that, you know, served his country. Super smart. Yes. I think his path to the presidency or his messaging. I don't know if he talked about this, but something that's really powerful that I had Ezra Klein on my pod that he pointed out that I thought was really powerful is that he can speak in a very authentic way and it was very moving when he talked about it. About. He grew up believing that he wasn't going to have the opportunity to have his own family.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, he did.

[Scott Galloway]

And the fact that he does have this really, what appears to be a wonderful, beautiful family family because of our embrace of civil rights and the right to pursue happiness, he can speak to that powerfully in a way that I think will resonate with a lot of moderates and a lot of Republicans.

[Kara Swisher]

We talked about parenting. We talked about that issue. Of course. You never asked me if I ever thought that as a kid. Because I'm older than him too. I'm much older than him.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, that's fair. I just think it's much more important for men to have families. You guys have cats?

[Kara Swisher]

Still haven't asked me.

[Scott Galloway]

You guys have cats.

[Kara Swisher]

You've not still not asked me. Here it is an opening. How are you, Scott? No, how are you, Kara?

[Scott Galloway]

When you were young, did you dream of having a family and think you Wouldn't be able to have a family.

[Kara Swisher]

Interestingly, Pete and I did talk about this. I wanted to have a family from the get go, like, very early. As I told. I bought a onesie when I was 18 because I had kids. I was going to have kids. I didn't. I thought. I didn't think. I couldn't. I was. Was like, fuck you. I'm going to have kids. I'm going to have a family. So I think we had a different approach to it. I was more aggressive and angry about it, and Pete was more sad about it, which is the same difference. Right.

[Scott Galloway]

Because you have. How old is Louis?

[Kara Swisher]

23.

[Scott Galloway]

Which means you had him when you were 60.

[Kara Swisher]

No.

[Scott Galloway]

That's good.

[Kara Swisher]

39. 39.

[Scott Galloway]

39.

[Kara Swisher]

39. And when I had a uterus back when I had a uterus. Yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah. I had my first at 42, too.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

So I think it's good having kids when you're older.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, me too. Except when they keep getting sick, as the young ones are. They keep trading the same illness back and forth.

[Scott Galloway]

No, it's. You've locked and loaded again. I actually, if I was a little bit younger, I would do that.

[Kara Swisher]

You can borrow my kids for the weekend and I take Amanda away. That would be.

[Scott Galloway]

And it's the gay. You've said this. It's the gays that are the only ones keeping gays. And immigrant immigrants are the only ones keeping our population growth at a steady level. Right?

[Kara Swisher]

That's correct. Correct. And Elon Musk.

[Scott Galloway]

And Elon Musk.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

And by the way, you know, all these guys.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

I think, like, I want to be. I'll tell you what, if I have any pull, you can be ambassador Australia. I want to be ambassador to Spain.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, okay.

[Scott Galloway]

If that's all right.

[Kara Swisher]

I'm sure they'll give that to you. We'll give them some money. All right, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot and be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back next week.

[Scott Galloway]

Ambassador to Mexico. Don't they sell La Biblios?

[Kara Swisher]

No. No.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, my gosh. Hola, Gotchas, Scott.

[Kara Swisher]

Ambassador to, like, Lichtenstein. You can have Lichtenstein.

[Scott Galloway]

Don't ask about Dansateria.

[Kara Swisher]

Okay, read us out.

[Scott Galloway]

Today's show was produced by Lara Naman, Zoe Marcus, Taylor Griffin and Kate Gallagher. Ernie and her Todd entered in this episode. Jim Mackle edited the video. Thanks also to Drew Burrows, Mia Svero and Dan Shalon. Great data, by the way. Nishak Krua. Is Vox Media's executive producer podcast. Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform. Thank you. Thank you for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the [e-mail] pod we'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. I'm in Tennessee, Kara. I'm in Tennessee watching parking lots being destroyed.