Bezos's AI Start-up, Thiel's Nvidia Sell-off, and Trump-MTG Breakup

Summary

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Pivot Podcast Summary

Episode: "Bezos's AI Start-up, Thiel's Nvidia Sell-off, and Trump-MTG Breakup"

Date: November 18, 2025
Hosts: Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway
Podcast: Pivot (New York Magazine)

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Overview

This episode dives into three of the week’s biggest stories:

• Shifting political alliances as Trump feuds with Marjorie Taylor Greene (MTG) and the battle over the Epstein files
• Volatility in the AI sector—Peter Thiel’s total Nvidia sell-off, market bubble fears, and Jeff Bezos's new AI venture
• The broader economic climate from healthcare reform proposals to the surprising performance of the bond market

With characteristic wit and sharpness, Kara and Scott dissect these seismic shifts in politics and business, explore branding, motivations, and the risks of concentrated power, while also weaving in personal anecdotes and signature banter.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Tour Recap, Bill Maher, and Media Gender Gaps

Timestamps: 02:05–09:19

• Live Show Tour:
  • Reflect on their seven-city tour, appreciating audience enthusiasm and the seamless production. Kara highlights reconnecting with childhood mentors and her fourth-grade girlfriend (Debbie Brubaker), tracked down by the producers.
  • Both hosts praise Chelsea Handler’s performance on tour.
• Kara’s Bill Maher Appearance:
  • Kara describes feeling nervous ("I get very nervous. I feel like he's [her late dad] watching." – Kara, 06:39).
  • They analyze Bill Maher's workplace culture: "There is a family there. If someone works with you for 25 years, at some point they screwed up and you forgave them... It goes beyond professional; it's loyalty. It's like family." – Kara, 09:03.
  • Discussion on men dominating media, with Kara quipping, "It's finally time for four men to dominate a media show. I know. It's time, Kara. It's time." – Kara, 07:06.

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2. Trump Breaks with Marjorie Taylor Greene & the Epstein Files

Timestamps: 09:24–22:42

• The Split:
  • Trump calls MTG a "ranting lunatic" and "traitor," publicly cuts ties.
  • MTG supports Epstein file release, positioning herself as apologetic for political toxicity and aligning with victims’ advocacy.
    • "If you can't forgive people for saying sorry, I don't know what you do." – Scott, 10:27.
• Credibility and Branding:
  • Kara is skeptical about transparency: “Why would we believe that these files won’t be altered? This is a corrupt organ.” – Kara, 11:42.
  • Branding analysis: “Marjorie Taylor Greene is what happens when CrossFit and a Facebook comment section have a baby and then raise it on Monster Energy Drink and resentment.” – Kara, 13:01.
  • Scott notes the branding risk: “People appreciate someone who is consistent, even if they don’t agree with the values. Better to be just fucking crazy and stay that way…” – Scott, 16:44.
• Political Analysis:
  • They reflect on whether MTG's pivot signals vulnerability in Trump’s coalition. Kara finds MTG’s shift "politically savvy" and potentially a canary in the coal mine for Trump.

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3. Healthcare System Critique and Policy Debate

Timestamps: 22:42–29:06

• New GOP Healthcare Plan:
  • Trump-aligned House bill to direct subsidies to HSAs, which Mark Cuban calls "really dumb."
  • Kara argues, “The only product in the world as expensive as American healthcare with 80% dissatisfaction. We’ve monetized health; it’s about shareholder value, not actual health.” – Kara, 24:01.
• Reform Idea:
  • Scott suggests slowly lowering Medicare eligibility: “Lower Medicare by two years per year; in ten years, it covers 45 and up. That’s 70% of healthcare cost. Keep going until it’s essentially nationalized.” – Scott, 24:41.
  • Both highlight the spread between the super-rich and middle class, calling it “a different fucking universe.” – Kara, 28:22.

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4. Peter Thiel Sells Nvidia; AI Bubble Risks; Bezos's Project Prometheus

Timestamps: 32:50–47:57

• Nvidia & AI Market:
  • Scott reports Thiel's complete Nvidia exit stokes AI bubble fears. OpenAI’s costs are “a forest fire—$12 billion on inference just to Q3 2025.” – Scott, 34:33.
• Bubble Fears:
  • Kara warns: "We're now in territory more crazy town than 99... if Nvidia drops, that's a $2.5 trillion destruction. That's how the economy convulses." – Kara, 37:10 & 46:54.
  • Cites shift in financial press from “AI boom to AI bubble” in the last 15 days.
• Bezos’s Project Prometheus:
  • Bezos launches a $6.2B AI company targeting practical applications: “It’s so macho, isn’t it? Prometheus did not have the greatest tail, Jeff.” – Scott, 38:39.
• AI Branding & Distraction:
  • Kara brands recent headlines “weapons of mass distraction.” Musk and Bezos are doing “AI Jazz Hands on fucking meth” to prop up hype and distract from core business weaknesses (Tesla, Amazon).

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5. Market Power, Investment Strategy, and Bonds

Timestamps: 50:16–57:27

• Bonds Surge:
  • Bonds yielding 6.7% YTD; Trump shifts $82M into bonds, mainly sectors benefiting from his policies.
  • Kara notes: "It’s a flight to safety... people look at the market and go, I don't know where. Stocks are just too goddamn expensive." – Kara, 54:11.
• Economic Fragility:
  • Conversation about concentration risk: “20% of global market cap is in 10 companies. If this comes undone, it’s scary.” – Kara, 55:15.
  • Predicts major risk if U.S. government backstops AI chip debt: “If OpenAI says we need $500B to buy chips, I think government will be asked to backstop the debt—which, by the way, is socialism.” – Kara, 55:29.

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6. Wins and Fails

Timestamps: 60:32–68:40

• Scott’s Fail:
  • Trump’s obsession with late night, wanting Seth Meyers fired. "He’s obsessed with late night." – Scott, 60:36.
• Scott’s Win:
  • Glenn Powell on SNL, especially the AI photo sketch: “It was so funny… really encapsulated how fucking ridiculous these AI photo enhancements are.” – Scott, 62:07.
• Kara’s Win:
  • Tom Cruise receives his first Oscar: “People don’t appreciate what fantastic actors they are when they’re that good looking… Tom Cruise is just an incredible talent.” – Kara, 63:16.
• Kara’s Fail:
  • Over-inflated, fragile market: “It creates fragility… 10 companies, and you pull that string, and the global economy goes into recession… [the economy] is now more crazy town than it was in 99.” – Kara, 68:40.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Marjorie Taylor Greene as Political Archetype:
  "Sort of what happens when CrossFit and a Facebook comment section have a baby and then raise it on Monster Energy Drink."
  — Kara Swisher (13:01)

• On the AI Bubble:
  "We're now in territory more crazy town than 99... if Nvidia drops, that's a $2.5 trillion destruction. That's how the economy convulses."
  — Kara Swisher (37:10–46:54)

• On Healthcare Disparities:
  “If people had any idea how the 1% really live in terms of access, there’d be a revolution right now.”
  — Kara Swisher (28:22)

• AI Hype as Distraction:
  “It’s AI Jazz Hands on fucking meth… If you just start talking about Tesla as a car company, and what the plan is for a company that wraps steel around a motor, people are going to wake up and go, ‘Oh, it’s a car company.’ And take the stock down 80%.”
  — Scott Galloway (40:01)

• On Fragile Markets:
  “We now have 10 companies that are literally the string that, if they get pulled on, puts the global economy into a recession.”
  — Kara Swisher (68:40)

• Relationship Wisdom (dating advice irony):
  “No one needs to take dating advice from a guy who lost his virginity at 19.”
  — Kara Swisher (44:07)

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Episode Flow & Tone

• Tone: As always, irreverent, direct, and full of sharp one-liners and banter. Critical but empathetic towards figures undergoing reinvention or backlash (e.g., MTG, Bill Ackman).
• Memorable moments: Kara riffing on Marjorie Taylor Greene’s brand, the extended SNL/Glenn Powell tribute, and their signature debates on market risk and political calculation.

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For Further Listening

Featured Clip:
Ken Burns (69:10):
"[Young people] are more open, they're persuadable. They went with the democratic Socialist... Many of our allies have been or are democratic socialists. I'm not worried about democratic socialists. I'm worried about dictators. That's what I'm worried about."

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Suggested Timestamps for Key Segments

• 02:05 – 09:19 — Tour recap & Bill Maher appearance
• 09:24 – 22:42 — Trump-MTG, Epstein files, and political rebranding
• 22:42 – 29:06 — Healthcare debate & critique
• 32:50 – 47:57 — AI bubble, Nvidia, Bezos’s Prometheus, and Big Tech risks
• 50:16 – 57:27 — Bonds, Trump investments, economic fragility
• 60:32 – 68:40 — Wins & Fails (Scott and Kara)
• 69:10 – 69:37 — Ken Burns on youth and political openness

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This episode underscores how political fault lines, AI mania, and economic fragility are defining this moment—with wit, candor, and the unique Pivot blend of analysis and entertainment.

Transcript

[Podcast Host (Announcer)]

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[Scott Galloway]

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[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Support for the show comes from MsNow.

[Scott Galloway]

Home to the Rachel Maddow Show, Morning.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Joe, the Briefing with Jen Psaki, and more Voices you can trust. Ms. Now is your source of news, opinion and the world. Their name is new, but you'll find the same commitment to justice, progress and the truth you've relied on for decades. They'll continue to cover the day's news and explain how it impacts you. Same mission, new name and I love these people, Ms. now. Learn more at Ms. Now.

[Kara Swisher]

You're like a dog and you're like protecting my purse.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, it's like cheap ass discount Scott Galloway. I don't want cheap ass. I want the real fucking deal. Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network.

[Kara Swisher]

I'm Kara Swisher and it is 5:14am here at the Beverly Hills Hotel in Los Angeles and I had on my calendar that it was supposed to be we were supposed to be doing this at 7am so if I'm even a little even a little slower than usual, you'll have to forgive me.

[Scott Galloway]

No, I think you had a nice relaxing weekend after our do you miss me? First of all, that's the key question.

[Kara Swisher]

I don't miss you, but I'M not sick of you. After being together for seven nights in seven cities, I thought it was pretty. Pretty seamless. Pretty good.

[Scott Galloway]

I know, wasn't it? We had a good time. I had a good time.

[Kara Swisher]

What were your favorite parts?

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, wow. All of it. I have to say, everyone's like, what's your favorite city? I'm like, I kind of liked all of them. I thought everyone was interesting that we had on stage. I don't think there was a dud amongst. I thought they were the crowds. You know my favorite part? The audiences. I gotta say that you were so enthusiastic. I don't know. What was your favorite part? The backstage whiskey. I don't know.

[Kara Swisher]

No, it was nice. LA was nice for me because as people listen, I had a couple of my mentors show up from when I was a kid.

[Scott Galloway]

Sy and Paul, right?

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, Sai and Paul. My stockbroker when I was 13 and.

[Scott Galloway]

My friend's stepfather when we had your fourth grade girlfriend.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. That was a trip. Our producer figured out a way to track down. I have mentioned my girlfriend in fourth grade, Debbie Brubaker. And they tracked her down and she showed up.

[Scott Galloway]

Her sister's a fan.

[Kara Swisher]

That was wild. And, let me think, several weeping.

[Scott Galloway]

You cried a few times.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, but that's just me. That's just a weekday.

[Scott Galloway]

People love that.

[Kara Swisher]

And then I'm trying to think who was really good. I thought. You know what? I thought Chelsea Handler was really good.

[Scott Galloway]

I think she's the female version of you.

[Kara Swisher]

She's so talented. No, she's way more talented than me. She's super talented and, like, light on her feet and funny.

[Scott Galloway]

And both governors were great. Yeah, we had bands and cheerleaders and everything else. And our staff was astonishing. I have to say, it was. Scott turned to me at one point and said, this is completely seamless. This is just really. In a good way.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, super easy. Anyways, you're back in dc.

[Scott Galloway]

Yes. You had a relaxing weekend in Los Angeles, I assume. I had a birthday party. I took my mother out to dinner and Louis was here. It was really. It was a lot. It was a lot of stuff. But I feel great and we had a great weekend.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, I went to a bunch of private clubs in la. I think I win.

[Scott Galloway]

I think you do.

[Kara Swisher]

I went to Living Room in this place called the Bird Something or Bird Street. LA definitely has a unique vibe.

[Scott Galloway]

How do you find out about these clubs? I never hear about these things.

[Kara Swisher]

My friend Michael Baruch is. I showed up to UCLA. I was 17, he was 16. And Michael is Sort of like a mini celebrity. And he's totally dialed in. So I get. I mean, it's just such a. Think about it. You drop into LA and you're merely, like, dialed into whatever's happening that night. Yeah. So he's. He shepherds me around and.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah. So anyway, the whole tour was really wonderful. And we were thinking of cities on the plane of where we should go next. Lots of them. Lots of people have written in. I said, where should we go next? In one of my posts. And all kinds of cities. Atlanta, Seattle, Miami, Nashville. So we will try to do different cities and maybe one or two of the same. Cause LA is Scott's home. It's Scott's home and San Francisco is mine. I consider it mine. So it was great. So, anyway, we had a wonderful time and we thank everybody and everyone was extraordinarily generous to us and made it seem, again, easy. Not seamless, but easy.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, you didn't. I'm sorry, you didn't talk about my Bill Maher appearance.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, Bill Maher. Oh, my God. Oh, for. Oh, okay.

[Kara Swisher]

Kara came and immediately just, like, took over my dressing room and started, like, drinking my drinks and, like, threw her. Took her shoes off, and I did.

[Scott Galloway]

Not take my shoes off.

[Kara Swisher]

Like, you don't go to the audience. You go to the. You know how you go backstage. You immediately go into my room and say, scott Gallery room. Of course.

[Scott Galloway]

They told me.

[Kara Swisher]

They said, go to Scott's room.

[Scott Galloway]

You want me to go to Fareed Zakaria's room? Was that offensive to you?

[Kara Swisher]

I don't just want. No, but you're like. I don't know, you're like a girlfriend staking out your territory. Or like. Or like my mom that I bring on set. I'm like Matthew McConaughey with my mom or something.

[Scott Galloway]

You liked it? Come on. It was fun. We had a good time. You were, by the way, spectacular on that show. We were all here.

[Kara Swisher]

I don't like that type of.

[Scott Galloway]

I was sitting backstage with the producers and we were watching you and we thought, whoa, what? What got in? Scott, sweeties. Because you were very subdued in the room because you were nervous.

[Kara Swisher]

I was nervous. I got very nervous on that show. My dad only watched two things when he was alive. He watched Toronto Maple Leafs hockey and Bill Morris. I just get very. I feel like he's watching. I get very nervous.

[Scott Galloway]

You were. You told Bill that. He was surprised, I think, but it was really good. It's a very good show, and I would check it out. Scott said a number of fresh and exciting things. And I think everyone was super impressed. And they also had Fareed Zakaria and Josh Barrow.

[Kara Swisher]

I love both those guys. That was great.

[Scott Galloway]

I know. That was a good show.

[Kara Swisher]

It's finally time for four men to dominate a media show. I know. It's time, Kara. It's time.

[Scott Galloway]

I didn't say a word. I thought it.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, I knew you were thinking it. I thought I was waiting for it. I'm like, oh, here it comes. Here it comes.

[Scott Galloway]

That's how good I've gotten. I was like, oh, for fuck's sake. Can you find? He does. To be fair, he has a lot of women on that show. And from what I understand, they try to get a lot of women. A lot of women are like, no, like. Which is interesting. So it was interesting.

[Kara Swisher]

And Susan Bennett, the producer, who, like, amazing, found me and put, like, advocated for me to get on the show.

[Scott Galloway]

Susan is amazing. Let me say. I know people like or don't like Bill Maher, but his staff has been there 20. Every person is over the makeup person 20 years. And there is. And Scott made a very salient point, but I think caught Bill off guard where he was talking about Scott's book is about to do about procreating and things like that. And he's like, you don't have to have kids or whatever. And you said, you have kids or you have family. Which I thought it knocked him off a little bit there.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, I said, I think you're full of shit. And I could see you kind of reared up, waiting to get back in my face. And I said, look, everyone here from the makeup artists, the producers have been here 25 or 30 years. You have kids, they're just wearing Time Warner badges. And there's a lot of research that on happiness. The kind of the twist on happiness is most people, you know, it's not surprising that relationships are the key, but what's sort of surprising is that people are the happiest are not necessarily the ones that receive the most love, but the ones that have opportunities to give the most love.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah.

[Kara Swisher]

And it's weird to describe Bill Maher in those terms, but he's clearly got very paternal and fraternal feelings or emotions because everyone around him has been with him forever.

[Scott Galloway]

I know it's really interesting because, you know, he tried to do oh, I pay them kind of thing. He started to move to that. And I was like, you don't stay at a job you don't like. You just don't. Unless you're like, A masochist. But none of them seem like masochists.

[Kara Swisher]

If someone works with you for 25 years, it means at some point they screwed up and you forgave them. And at some point you screwed up and they stayed with you. It's, there's, it goes beyond just kind of a professional relationship. It means that they feel comfortable with you, you feel comfortable with them, and you're loyal to each other. It's like family. That's what it is.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah. Sorry, Bill. You have K. That's the way it goes.

[Kara Swisher]

Too bad.

[Scott Galloway]

Even though you decry it.

[Kara Swisher]

There you go.

[Scott Galloway]

I dropped my kids off at his house. I'd probably kill them anyway anyway. By the way, Saul Swisher Cats. Happy birthday. We've got a lot to get to today, including Jeff Bezos new AI startup and Peter Thiel's Nvidia sell off. But first, President Trump is urging House Republicans to back the measure to release the Epstein files because, quote, we have nothing to hide. The House is set to vote on it today. Trump also continues to call Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene a traitor. He announced late last week he was cutting ties with Greens, referring to her as a ranting lunatic. Greens says she's been contacted by multiple private security firms after receiving a hotbed of threats. She told CNN that she supports Trump and his administration, but is not backing away from the Epstein files. Let's listen. I believe the country deserves transparency in these files and I don't believe that.

[Podcast Host (Announcer)]

That rich, powerful people should be protected.

[Scott Galloway]

If they have, if they have done anything wrong. And so I'm standing with the women.

[Podcast Host (Announcer)]

And I will continue to do my.

[Scott Galloway]

Small part to get the files released. She also noted that she was sorry and it seemed sincere for being such a toxic force in political discourse, which was, it was a flat out apology and well done. And I know a lot of people are like, let's not forgive her, but I feel like if you can't forgive the people who, for saying they were sorry, I don't know what you do. Epstein survivors released a powerful PSA on Sunday, holding up a picture of their younger self from when they met Epstein. Very upsetting. They're encouraging House Republicans to vote to release the files, which it looks like it was going to do. I think Trump did that because he knew he wasn't going to win. And then he could make an excuse. Either two things are going online, which is that he scrubbed the files, or two, that he's going to say there's an investigation of Democrats going on in the files. So, so that they can't release them. In any case, he didn't want to lose. So explicitly. Also, the latest Epstein distraction, the Amelia Earhart records were just released. As actor Christopher Maloney put it, unless she went missing while on a flight to Epstein's island, no one gives a shit. I love that guy. I love that guy. So any thoughts on this? This is a really interesting and continually developing story.

[Kara Swisher]

I just don't have a feel. I just don't. What I've never understood is why we think unless the files are part of some process where Trump appointees don't have access to them, I've always thought these things are going to be altered. This is a corrupt organ. His personal lawyer is head of the doj, and an individual who's a sycophant and a total incompetent and just an acolyte is the head of the FBI. These people, at the end of the day, have ownership. I guess it's. Is it because why would we believe that these things won't be altered when they.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, because that's a real, I mean, think of some point. I think they have to be thinking their own skins. In the very end, they're not gonna do anything for this guy. And it's sort of like the mobsters that turn on the top mobster at some point. You know, they always end up turning all those people, if you've ever noticed.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, I, I, I just wouldn't put it past him. I think the crime here is.

[Scott Galloway]

No, neither would I.

[Kara Swisher]

So brazen. I, I. What? You know what? I'm. There was a couple times on Bill Maher where I thought for the first time in my life on this show, you know, everything does not demand my judgment. And I had a couple, a couple topics like on the penny and daylight savings time.

[Scott Galloway]

I thought, yeah, you didn't. I like that.

[Kara Swisher]

I have no few and no reason to speak now. I feel like I'm, I'm watching this, but I don't have a view on it. The only thing say is that, you know, Marjorie Taylor Greene is sort of what happens when CrossFit and a Facebook comment section have a baby and then raise it on monster energy drink.

[Scott Galloway]

Which she has said.

[Kara Swisher]

And resentment. I don't know how to feel about her. It's weird. You've always said, and I absolutely believe this, we have to embrace imperfect allies. And MTG is acting. You know, someone asked us, the joke is news, said this, who's the leader of the Democratic Party? And it's Marjorie Taylor Greene right now. And Everybody loves a turncoat because it's good for your own advantage. But something has happened where she has seen polling data and someone in her campaign has said, we are going to do the mother of all pivots here because there's a huge opportunity. And I feel like she's a real canary in the coal mine for or hunted for the Trump campaign because she strikes me as being politically pretty savvy, very much so. And she's done some polling in her own district and found out that this positioning of turning on Trump for the first time makes sense politically.

[Scott Galloway]

Can I ask you from a branding perspective? Because again, a lot of people are like, I don't believe her. And my joke I was doing on the tour was she's been visited by three ghosts recently. Like the whole Scrooge pivot, essentially, in this overnight conversion. I don't know how long it's been going on. And I would love some reporting from people actually close to her if they could, if reporters could get to those people of what happened here. Because she is, it's unbelievable, actually, even though I have to tell you, she's incredibly persuasive in her. I was a, you know, she's, she makes a very. I was a QAnon conspiracy victim, essentially, which I have seen it from. You know, I've seen it with my mom, I've seen it with lots of people, friends of mine who have suddenly gone crazy essentially, and nobody's come back. That's the thing. But you think about those people who were KKK and then they teach people not to do violence, or you remember the IRA people, they were having all these non violent, and at some point you've got to go. And they were extraordinarily violent people, these skinheads that then teach kids to not do that. At some point. You have to believe them, I guess. But talk about the brand thing, because you do have a sneaking suspicion it's a trick. And of course, AOC said it was because of the Senate race, which I'm like, okay, that might. Okay, like, I'm not offended by that necessarily. They, they treated her like shit because she's a woman, right? Because they were like, we're not letting you in. And she had to change her brand because it wasn't working for her. But people do that every day, you know, whether they're in marriages or, you know, you got to change or you, you, you lose or you don't lose or you, I don't know. Because people are very mean about her turnabout. They did that Same thing with George Conway or Liz Cheney or anyone else on the right.

[Kara Swisher]

But George and Liz, it really wasn't a brand, quite frankly.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, Liz, it was.

[Kara Swisher]

So let me back up the quote unquote, brand positioning. I would argue Marjorie Taylor Greene has gone for is. I'm gonna come across like one of those women or the type of woman who will return a rotisserie chicken to Costco after I've eaten half of it. She just has fucking crazy weird energy and it's like 5:30 here anyway.

[Scott Galloway]

Did you do that? Did you do that once?

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. Well, I've heard that before.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, I've never heard of that, but I like it.

[Kara Swisher]

But where she's just so fucking crazy. Like, yeah, take it back. Just give her her money back.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, right, exactly.

[Kara Swisher]

But I would argue. Okay, so first off, from a branding standpoint, people appreciate what she's doing is actually poor branding because. And I'm not saying it's not good for the country. I'm not saying it's not the right thing to do. It might end up being very strateg. But the reality is people appreciate someone who is consistent even if they don't agree with the values they're showing consistency on. So quite frankly, John Kerry ran. Everyone gives Vice President Harris a ton of shit. Senator Kerry or Secretary Kerry ran a pretty poor campaign. And that is, he came across as just. The ad that just absolutely devastated him was a video footage of him windsurfing in, in Nantucket Harbor. And it just said he was against the Iraq War before he was for it, before he was against it. And it ended with this devastating line and a picture of him on his kiteboard saying, john Kerry, whichever way the wind blows.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[Kara Swisher]

And so people like, for example, George W. Bush, incredibly unpopular, war in Iraq, probably first ballot, hall of fame, geopolitical, catastrophic mistake. But because he never wavered, people respect that. And so from a brand standpoint, people would rather you be just fucking crazy and stay that way or crazy liberal, because those are the people who've been drawn to you. But whereas I think Liz Cheney and George Conaway stayed true to, quite frankly, GOP traditional principles, I don't think they really flip flopped. I think they're very.

[Scott Galloway]

They did unnatural things for Trump and then stopped. Right. And went back to their normal shape, essentially.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, but they did kind of my opinion on Chaney and Conway is that for a while they're the old go peers that basically MAGA has cast out.

[Scott Galloway]

From the party, Right? Absolutely. Yeah. But she was at the heart of it. She was at the heart of it.

[Kara Swisher]

But her brand. It'll be very interesting to see what happens. And what'll be super interesting is if she's reelected. He's basically aimed her guns at her whenever he's aimed his guns at anyone. It has been a direct hit. It has been shocking. How would a.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, no. Thomas Massie won despite a direct. He had tried to get Thomas Massie out the last time.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. But my sense is, I think MTG would be an entirely different ball game because I. Do you know how much her district went for Trump? There's been. There's been some, a lot.

[Scott Galloway]

Except that the head of the Republican Party in the district is backing her, not Trump.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, that will be. If I feel like she's.

[Scott Galloway]

That's interesting.

[Kara Swisher]

I feel like she's your finger being pulled out of a dike, so to speak.

[Scott Galloway]

She's going to become a left lesbian of the dyke soon, but go ahead. She could fit.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, yeah. I'm not going to comment on that. So. But she, by the way, Debbie Brubaker, my girlfriend, lesbian, as you said, or as she said, first thing she said was bats for the other team, so to speak. That's happening a lot to me, Cara. I know that anyway.

[Scott Galloway]

But you know what I'm going to do for you? I'm going to go straight anyway.

[Kara Swisher]

So at this point, I think that ship has sailed, Cara.

[Scott Galloway]

I think it is.

[Kara Swisher]

I think that ship has sailed. No, but mt. I think she's actually a seminal figure in the political landscape because if she gets reelected and shows that she can basically stick up the middle finger to President Trump and he's now two years into his lame duck presidency. And you said something on the tour that really sort of struck me was that you don't think he's going to finish out his presidency.

[Scott Galloway]

I don't. I really don't now, actually. I really don't have this past week, this shift on the Epstein files, whether they scrub them or not, he's in a weak position. And I think they sense it. And by the way, I think there are videos, I think. I think there are photos, and I think they're not good. And that's what's missing here is he's scared of something.

[Kara Swisher]

It's something.

[Scott Galloway]

You know, they made fun of it, actually. They were repeating a lot of stuff you said is, you know, if I was innocent, wouldn't I release things? And it was the opener for snl and it was really quite like saying what you were saying is he looks so Guilty, the way he's behaving. And Amelia Earhart, I'm like, I'm happy he released that. Although we still don't know where she went. But, you know, we're gonna have to live with that unfortunate accident. But he's gonna try to do distraction after distraction. But at some point, you do run out of steam of these distractions. I feel like you can't. Unless he attacks a country that's another Venezuela. But I think he's in a deeply weak position, and I think Greene is just an example of that. It'll be interesting if she keeps this up. Cause she can't quite let go of him because that's a bridge too far. But she's like him of another time. Not this one, not this Trump. And I think that's what's powerful, because everyone I talk to in the Trump universe who's supportive of him that is shifting is like, I liked him, but not this stuff. Not the East Wing, not the way they're doing ice, not all these kind of ridiculous, like, not. But not this the guy, essentially. So they like the idea of Trump, not what's happened to him, which is clearly a decline in cognitive and corruption.

[Kara Swisher]

I don't think it's. I don't think it's. I don't see the cognitive decline. Occasionally. He does look like an old man falling asleep, but I don't see the quote, unquote, cognitive decline. I think he actually presents as still remarkably robust. But.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, I was in. My mom's. My mom's in a senior facility, and there's a guy there. There's always a guy there that's really robust and really losing it. But also very energetically loud and. But has dementia. Like, I'm just telling you, can be very. I had a friend whose mother had dementia and her grandmother. Grandmother had dementia, and she used to get up from the beach and start swimming and kept going. She was in great shape. She was very lively. And they had to go get her because she was so fit and so, like, full of beans, but had dementia, so we'll see.

[Kara Swisher]

I don't know. I'm going to impersonate Marjorie Taylor Greene. And if my room service is late, I'm going to blame the deep state.

[Scott Galloway]

Okay, good. Okay. All right. Speaking of what Congress is up to, House Republicans are reportedly circulating a bill model on Trump's idea to lower healthcare costs, redirecting insurance subsidies directly to people's HSA accounts. They would be for Obamacare enrollees. Mark Cuban called this really dumb, noting that when you send money to people's HSAs, there's no guarantee the money will be spent on healthcare costs. When they're used by insurance companies, they have to spend 85% on those costs. Everyone thinks this is like ridiculous. And again, another bad move by Trump, I think, and he seems to be missing. He's usually politically so savvy and this is just a dumb idea.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, look, I think it's time if you were just to look at our deficit. It's $2 trillion a year. If you look at what we spend on healthcare, $13,000 per capita per year versus 6,500 for the other six members of G7. If we were able to actually leverage our scale and our innovation to provide healthcare at the same price as every other nation, that's literally the annual deficit. That would be a $2 trillion savings. You can't golden ticket. We're going to have a very difficult time ever getting serious about a deficit as long as we continue the regulatory capture. And I don't think there's. Of health care. I don't think there's a. I literally don't think there's a way to fix.

[Scott Galloway]

Or enhance or your idea, repeat your idea. You repeat it on stage several times. Would explain your Medicare.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, if you look at health care in the United States, four out of five people are dissatisfied with it and they spend $13,000 a year on it. And that's just. There's no product in the world that is this expensive that has an 80% disapproval rate. And then you combine that with regulatory capture where we've monetized health. Healthcare isn't about health, it's about shareholder value, unfortunately. And we've ended up in the most capitalist healthcare system in the sense that if you're in the top 10% in the United States, it's the best healthcare in the world. The person who that person in percent lives 12 years longer than the person in the bottom 1%. We've monetized it. It's actually for you and me, it's about best healthcare system in the world. For everyone else, not so much.

[Scott Galloway]

It's still frustrating.

[Kara Swisher]

So I think this has to be like really ripped a band aid off and what I think at the same time, Medicare, which is what seniors are eligible for, actually delivers pretty efficiently and people are generally pretty happy with it. So my idea is to lower health, health, Medicare eligibility by two years a year. And then in 10 years, where are you? You're at 45 on up is eligible for Medicare. And that's 70 plus percent of healthcare costs because they happen later in your life. And I think you just keep going until effectively you have socialized or national. Nationalized medical coverage. It's time. It's just not working for us.

[Scott Galloway]

And everyone under could have a very inexpensive expense.

[Kara Swisher]

Under 40, they don't even need health insurance.

[Scott Galloway]

I know they don't. But just to. If something happens. Right. They need. There's always.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. I'm trying to figure out. I'm trying to figure out an elegant way that gives the private sector time to respond because there are millions of jobs that are dependent upon this regulatory capture and you want to give them time to adjust. But quite frankly, we have to move to an entirely different system. We have to move absolutely in the U.K. you know, the NHS, granted, people have their issues with it, but generally you get good health care for free and it's the responsibility of the entire nation.

[Scott Galloway]

It's just in Korea, they're perplexed by our health.

[Kara Swisher]

They're like, why are you Absolutely can't get. They can't get over a nation that's the most prosperous nation in the world where when your wife is diagnosed with lung cancer, it also means you're going bankrupt. 40% American households have medical or dental debt. It's a huge, you know, happiness. We're talking a lot about it. The six of the 10 happiest nations in the world are in northern Europe. And I think a big component of that healthcare is. People think of happiness is. Is having stuff or the ability to have stuff, which America defines. But actually a bigger component of happiness is absence from fear that things are going to be taken from you. And in the US there's a real fear that your dignity will be taken from you and the health of your loved ones because it's, it's so expensive and people can't afford it.

[Scott Galloway]

Health care and homes. That's 100%.

[Kara Swisher]

And I h. And H. I don't. I think crime, I think crime and immigration are big in terms of perception, but in terms of the actual as.

[Scott Galloway]

It relates to actually mental illness, cortisol stress.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, I'm shocked that some of our friends on the left aren't more aggressive about this. You know, Hillary, Secretary Clinton was right. It just. The world wasn't ready for it. In 92 or whenever it was. The nation is ready for it. The nation has had it. And then the h. It's a system. In the UK, the top. I forget if it's 5 or 10% go private.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah. They affect.

[Kara Swisher]

And people say, well, that's the aristocracy. And I'm like, no it's not. Rich people are always going to have better service and better access. Get used to it, folks. Their kids are going to have an easier time getting into college. They're going to have better doctors.

[Scott Galloway]

Did you see that journal story? There was a journal story about rich. Really? The ultra rich never see people like they go from one, I'll send it to you.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, that's part of the problem and that is the top, top, the most powerful people by far in the top 1%. And they're no longer invested in the basics of American life. They have their own schools, they have their own police force and security now they have their own health care, they have their own transportation, they have their own planes. So when America infrastructure is crumbling and when the average American has a difficult time getting good education or feels unsafe, these people don't feel, don't have no empathy because they're, they've totally extricated themselves from the American experience.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, this story, I'd recommend it in the Wall Street Journal. We have to move on. But one of the things that when Luigi Mangioni happened I was like, okay, here we are, this is more. And this is going to happen over time. People are furious about this thing and they don't need to be right. It's so fixable for our country and it saves money.

[Kara Swisher]

Just before we move on, two things I actually believe if people had any idea how the 1% live, really live in terms of access, I think there'd be a revolution right now. I think the difference between, well, it.

[Scott Galloway]

Was described ra detailed in the Wall Street Journal.

[Kara Swisher]

The difference between a middle class person and an upper income person when I was growing up was they got to fly business class and they had a Cadillac, not a Gran Torino. But you've lived largely the same life now. It's a different fucking universe. It is just a different universe. And also just going back to the UK health care system, the people who go private because they have the money for actually kind of works because they basically take pressure off the system because they're not in the system. So I think, think, look, it's time for nationalized healthcare. It's time for socialized healthcare in the United States. It's just not working for us.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, you socialist. Anyway, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, Peter Thiel dumps his stake in Nvidia. I'm very eager to hear what you say about this.

[Podcast Host (Announcer)]

Support for this show comes from Deleteme. Delete me. Makes it easy, quick and safe to remove your personal data online At a time when surveillance and data breach are common enough to make everyone vulnerable, Deleteme does all the hard work of wiping you and your family's personal information from data broker websites. How does it work? You can sign up and provide Deleteme with exactly what information you want deleted and their experts take it from there. And it's not a one time thing. DeleteMe can constantly monitor and remove personal information you don't want on the Internet. I've used Deleteme many times and for a while and I have to say it's really helpful about removing things. I just really recently looked at the dashboard and found there were all kinds of things that I thought were gone from the Internet that are not. There's also a lot of incorrect data all masked together and a wide variety of things that shouldn't be mixed together because it's really dangerous for your privacy. See why Wirecutter named Deleteme their top pick for data removal services. You can take control of your data and keep your private life private by signing up for Deleteme now at a special discount for our listeners. Get 20% off your Delete Me plan when you go to JoinDeleteMe.com pivot and use the promo code PIVOT at checkout. The only way to get 20% off is to go to JoinDeleteMe.com pivot and enter the code pivot at checkout. That's JoinDeleteMe.com pivot code pivot. Support for this show comes from Upway. If you're tired of being stuck in traffic or watching gas prices climb higher.

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[Podcast Host (Announcer)]

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[Scott Galloway]

Scott we're back. Peter Thiel's fun has sold off his entire stake in Nvidia. Elevating AI Bubble Fear at the time of this taping, early Monday morning, it looks like the markets are in for a muted open after a rocky week of tech stock selloffs quite a lot while we were away. The NASDAQ composite ended last week down a half a percentage point, led by dips in Alphabet, Amazon and Meta. Even though Warren Buffett bought into Alphabet, which he never buys and detect. Talk about this move. And let me just add this. Speaking of AI bubble fears, some recent reports are shedding more light on OpenAI's finances. This was jaw dropping, I thought. Documents obtained by the Wall street the company is burning through cash. I mean it is a forest fire. Operating losses are projected to reach about three quarters of annual revenues by 2028, mostly due to computing costs, of course, though the company expects to turn a profit by 2030. They say they are then they could look this happened with other Internet companies. OpenAI spent about $12 billion on inference, essentially computing costs between 2024 and the third quarter of 2025, according to documents reviewed by tech blogger Ed Zittran. The documents also show Microsoft's revenue share payment from OpenAI, roughly doubling since last year. OpenAI said these aren't accurate I guess but they are having this. We'll see when they have their IPO. Sam Altman recently said OpenAI's revenue is more than $13 billion a year. But these latest numbers don't seem to support that. Any thoughts on this stuff? I'm really interested in your take on the teal stuff combined with and of course what's his name from Masa son sold off one Nvidia in order to get into OpenAI but go ahead.

[Kara Swisher]

Well I think you'd, I think most people most market analysts would go listen, this is just some from some profit taking. Nvidia's up 38% even Nvidia was down 8% last week but it's up 38% for the year. Microsoft down 1.3, up 22. Metis flat was down 4.5% it's only up 2% for the year. Amazon is up 7% but it gave back 8% last last week. Alphabet was down 3% but it's up 45%. And Apple, nice call. Apple's up Apple's 1 point, up 1.2% last week and up 12% for the year. And the companies that so Apple and Amazon are supposed to be most immune from the AI trade, they haven't gone all in. I personally and again this isn't financial advice but I'm increasingly convinced that the string that gets pulled on that takes down the global economy to recession levels and it'll no, there'll be nowhere to hide is the following. I think the trillion dollar plus commitments or framework that Sam Altman has made to try and convince everybody I know more than you and this is so fucking huge. I need 60 nuclear power plants and 300 billion and compete from Oracle. I think a lot of that is marketing and great. If the revenue is doubled at OpenAI it means its stock is 80% overvalued. Because built into that valuation of 40 times revenue is that this thing is quadrupling every 12 months and will quadrupl every 12 months for four years. And it's not. And the moment they announce again, I think this trade unwinds the following way. I think a traditional company, a PepsiCo, a caterpillar on an earnings call says look, we are excited about AI. We do think it's going to be a breakthrough but we are scaling back our investment. And then a bunch of other traditional S&P 500 companies look at each other and make the same announcement. OpenAI has to, to, you know, it becomes clear there's no way OpenAI is going to continue to be able to buy 300 billion or 100 billion in Nvidia chips. And the thing that takes the market down, quite frankly, is Nvidia, because with a $5 trillion market cap, if this thing gets cut in half and there's a $2.5 trillion destruction in the market, which will impact the top 10% of households who are now responsible for 50% of consumer spending, that's how the economy like literally starts to throw up and convulse. And I think we're getting there. The narrative has gone from AI boom to AI bubble. Now everyone, people don't realize because it happens incremental. And you said something that always struck me that humans adapt. People don't realize how much the narrative has changed around AI. In the financial press just in the last 15 days, everyone's talking about a bubble now.

[Scott Galloway]

I've read so many bubble stories, it's crazy. And of course, as you say, sometimes when that's the case, it doesn't happen, right? It over indexes on that. I would say the teal thing, I don't think it's just profit taking. Although this guy has a tuning fork for money, right? Whether he figures out some weird tax plan that he never pays taxes again, or some weird gap gains thing that he does, he's always up to some amazing, ridiculous and greedy thing to do. But that's him. He's a capitalist. He's going to take advantage of every nook and cranny of problems. But it was interesting that it just, just they, they see things before people because they're in the middle of it and they can actually see the numbers. And anyone that can see the numbers, you have to pay attention to their moves. And it's not just a profit taking, right? It's not just that. I think, I think probably it's not like you sort of feel like, remember Amazon was all like going to be on Amazon bomb, that kind of stuff. That there was that narrative that went on and then it wasn't. But this, this is so much bigger. Like it's so big and it affects everything. And it was. And they're already established industries and already established companies. These other companies, when they coughed, nobody cared. In this case, when they cough, everyone dies, essentially. Here's an interesting thing. Jeff Bezos is taking a larger role in the AI game. He's created a startup called Project Prometheus. Oh, it's so, it's such a.

[Kara Swisher]

So macho, isn't it?

[Scott Galloway]

I know, right? By the way, Prometheus did not have the greatest tail, Jeff, Just so you know, for people don't know, Prometheus gave humans fire and he defied the gods for doing this. But as punishment for his actions, Zeus condemned Prometheus to internal torment, including an eagle ate his liver daily. So good luck, Jeff. And he'll be the co CEO. The company is focusing on AI with real world applications and aerospace cars in other fields. Make sense. Project Prometheus has already raised $6.2 billion in funding. I'm not sure what. It's probably making apps, right? I would assume, like how you would deploy it anywhere, like what's the use of AI? And I think people right now are mostly using it for search, sort of a more robust search or a more robust analytical thing. And so the question is, how do you make it really seamlessly useful throughout, which is what you're talking about. What's the actual ROI on these things? So I don't know. I don't know if you think of anything about that.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, the thing that kind of identified marks the age a little bit as weapons of mass distraction. And that is, I think the country is being run by. I think we're bombing fishing boats, which A no fentanyl comes out of Venezuela. They don't have any fentanyl bombs.

[Scott Galloway]

Not in fishing boats, that's for sure.

[Kara Swisher]

And then if these fishing boats with a distribution system or the transportation system for the drug trade, which by the way is not the way you go after the drug trade, the transportation system, if they were in fact faring drugs or fentanyl, of which there's none in Venezuela, it's in Miami. These boats would need to make 20 stops to refuel, which is sort of logistically improbable, if not impossible. I believe we're bombing fishing boats because of a dead pedophile. I think they every day, as soon as Epstein creeps back into the news, they try and come up with something, whether it's this health account nonsense or an additional 100% tariff on Lithuania to try and distract them. And then the other person that does this, I mean the most powerful person in the world, the wealthiest man in the world, are literally deploying all of their energy and firepower on distraction right now. And Musk is like, look at anything. But the fact I have a car company trading at a revenue multiple that's never made sense for a car company. Oh, look over here, it's robots. Look over here. It's autonomous. Look over here. I would agree it's AI Jazz hands on fucking meth. Because it's not. If he just starts talking about Tesla as a car company and the metrics and what the plan is for this company that wraps steel around a motor, people are going to wake up and go, oh, it's a car company. And take the stock down 80%.

[Scott Galloway]

It's also. Can I add something? It's more than that. It's also the idea that they can't shut up. I was just thinking this last night. I'm going on that. The show, Jennifer. Those two ladies. I've had ladies and I had to think of. I've had it. I have had it with them talking like it's. When Bill Ackman was giving dating advice, I was thinking like I would call him a cheap ass discount version of Scott Galloway. It was first of all stupid advice for young men. He's sort of moving into your space. I'd give him a smackaroo, Scott. But he's sort of copying.

[Podcast Host (Announcer)]

Yes.

[Scott Galloway]

He put out this whole thing about can I meet you? You go up to a girl at a bar and you say, can I meet you?

[Kara Swisher]

Can I? You just did you. Can I meet you?

[Scott Galloway]

Can I meet you? That's his piece of advice. He like started giving dating advice. I'm like, can you just go back to hedge funds and stop commenting on everything? I bet he saw like the Galloways. Number one, I need to get in on this thing. And it gives me a softer side of Sears kind of look. But yeah, he had. And it's completely.

[Kara Swisher]

So just to be clear, I don't.

[Scott Galloway]

But that's what I mean. Bezos can't shut up.

[Kara Swisher]

I know, but I, I try and base my dating advice on research. So just real briefly, gentlemen. Women are attracted to men sexually for three reasons. The first is signaling resources. So the bad news is, you know.

[Scott Galloway]

That'S a range of Sam Bill Ackman. Yeah.

[Kara Swisher]

But you can also signal resources by having a plan and having your act together and demonstrating discipline. It's like signaling not only current but future resources. Second is intellect. What's the fastest way to communicate intellect, Kara?

[Scott Galloway]

I don't know. Make a joke, Be funny.

[Kara Swisher]

That's right. So I've told you my impersonation of a woman. I'm laughing, I'm laughing, I'm naked. And then, and then if you can, if you can make a woman laugh.

[Scott Galloway]

I should not laugh at that. But it was fun.

[Kara Swisher]

If you can make a woman laugh, she'll have coffee with her. And then the third thing, and this is the most under leveraged weapon in dating and the advice I have for young men is kindness. And it's true. Women instinctively believe at some point they'll be vulnerable because of gestation, and they want someone who is a kind, blind man.

[Scott Galloway]

This all makes sense. Can I meet you? Does not.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, so I don't give guys opening lines. I. I would start with, hey, where are you from? And. And then you read body language or.

[Scott Galloway]

What's that old line? That's a nice shirt. It'll look great on my floor in the morning.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, I. My. My big line is, you give them the. You give them the phone and ask them to take pictures, a picture of you. And everyone always says, yes, no problem, and they're nice. And then you say, now can you turn it around on periscope mode and take a picture of the two of us? And she'll go, why? And you say, because I want to show it to our kids.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, my God, that's so creepy. That would send you way, way. Like, how can I get out of this place with my head intact?

[Kara Swisher]

No one needs to take dating advice from a guy who lost his virginity at 19.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, yeah, that's true.

[Kara Swisher]

No, but there's. There's basics. I did not know Bill was getting. Is Bill getting into the young men game? I'm gonna have to call Richard. Yes, it is.

[Scott Galloway]

He's getting it.

[Kara Swisher]

I was like, what are you doing? Getting.

[Scott Galloway]

Get out of Scott. I was immediately angry, but it was also stupid. So I thought, okay, I'm angry, and yet it's stupid. He's like, totally getting into the Scott game. He'll probably call you for lunch. Like they all do. Like, let's have lunch and chat. Let's just talk about hedge funds. Bill, you're a hedge fund person. That's the only thing we want to talk to you about.

[Kara Swisher]

I don't mind Bill that much, honestly.

[Scott Galloway]

I think he's become a clown. I think he's a very talented investor. He's very good talented, very risk taking. But he needs to stop talking about everything and else publicly. He could talk about it privately if it's an interest in whatever. He reminds me there's a great show.

[Kara Swisher]

On only we can talk about things we're not supposed to talk. Do we have no domain expertise in.

[Scott Galloway]

No, no, no. We know a lot about. I do a lot of reporting. No, I. I don't talk about hedge fund investing. I don't know anything. If I ask you.

[Kara Swisher]

We just talked about the market.

[Scott Galloway]

Yes, but you talked about it. I didn't because I don't know Anything about it. Because you know something about it. Because you've been investing since. Since 13 with Psy, apparently. But there's a show called the Beast in Me and then we're gonna move on and it's with Matthew Rice and Claire Danes and it's about this billionaire who lives next door to this Pulitzer Prize winning lesbian writer. It's kind of echoes. And he's such an irritating person. And literally they have a lunch that I have had with a dozen different tech people, rich people. And it was so long. Like he's so irritating in this show. He also might be a killer, but it's anyway just he's so irritating. Stop getting into Scott. I was defending you, Scott. Get out of Scott.

[Kara Swisher]

I love how you're like, you're like a dog and you're like protecting my purse. Get away from my purse.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, it's like cheap ass discount Scott Galloway. I don't want cheap ass. I want the real deal.

[Kara Swisher]

Want the premium. You want that new leather smell? You want that new.

[Scott Galloway]

No, I do not want Bill Ackman to give dating advice.

[Kara Swisher]

I'd like him to move on and speak.

[Scott Galloway]

I'd love to. Hedge fund advice from Bill.

[Kara Swisher]

It smells so weird right now. I bought, I bought Axe Spray in the airport because I didn't have deodorant. I smell like a 19 year old boy.

[Scott Galloway]

No, 19. Try 12. My sons were done with it at 13. Anyway. Oh, ax is the worst sp. I just had a memory of really bad smelling young men. Oh my God.

[Kara Swisher]

Just to put a finer point on the actual substance of the conversation. So at the peak of the dot com bubble, all of big tech accounted for about 34% of the S&P. There's just 10 companies now that account for 40%. And the 10 biggest companies in tech back then were 27%. So these companies are 50% more expensive as a percentage or they account for 50% more as a percentage of the total S and P. So we are.

[Scott Galloway]

Now in this was look at below territory.

[Kara Swisher]

If you look at what happened to these companies in 2000 and you look at their peak from which they fell, these Companies are now 50%, have 50% more market cap as a percentage of the total market. And then the Buffett test where you take essentially the market cap of the S and P as a percentage percentage of GDP. He likes it. I guess normally it trades around 80 or 90%. It's trading at 220% right now.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, well Buffett is mostly in cash except he bought some Google shares.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh he says, do you know he's assembled a war chest of $310 billion in cash?

[Scott Galloway]

He did buy Google.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, he bought Alphabet.

[Scott Galloway]

That was interesting.

[Kara Swisher]

And Apple and Amazon are probably the least vulnerable because they have not gone all in on AI like everybody else. But the narrative has changed really dramatically. Which isn't to say that the market, my friend Barry Ritholtz reminded me that 97, when everyone said the market was overvalued, the NASDAQ doubled from that point. But this feels really, really wobbly.

[Scott Galloway]

Gonna go fast. That's my feeling. All right, let's go on a quick break, and when we come back, bonds are thriving.

[Podcast Host (Announcer)]

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[Scott Galloway]

Support for this show comes from Mint Mobile.

[Podcast Host (Announcer)]

Most holiday gifts unfortunately end up in.

[Scott Galloway]

The drawer in the back of your closet.

[Podcast Host (Announcer)]

Or maybe they're, quote, accidental, mentally left.

[Scott Galloway]

At a cousin's house.

[Podcast Host (Announcer)]

Thankfully, this holiday season, you can make sure every holiday gift is something for everyone to enjoy.

[Scott Galloway]

That's right, Mint Mobile is offering unlimited Premium Wireless for $15 a month. That's their best deal of the year.

[Podcast Host (Announcer)]

Also known as the only holiday gift you'll actually use every single day and one that you literally can't leave at a cousin's house. With Mint Mobile, you can get 3, 6 or 12 month unlimited plan for 15amonth month All Mint plans come with.

[Scott Galloway]

High speed data, unlimited talk and text on the nation's largest 5G network. You can also bring your current phone and number over to Mint with no contracts required. So don't get them socks, get them Premium Wireless for 15amonth. Shop Mint Unlimited [e-mail] pivot that's mintmobile.com.

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Pivot Limited time offer upfront payments of.

[Scott Galloway]

$45 for three months, $90 for six months and $180 for 12 months Plan required $15 a month equivalent taxes and fees Extra initial plan term Only greater than 35 gigabytes may slow when the network is busy. Capable device required Availability, speed and coverage varies. See mintmobile.com Support for this show comes from Solidigm. The World Runs on data and data relies on storage. But most most businesses aren't thinking about data storage as a key part of their infrastructure or really at all. Solidigm is a storage optimized for the AI era, offering bigger, faster and more energy efficient solid state storage. Simply put, the old approach to storage is no longer sufficient, especially with the new demands and new constraints that AI companies face. With rapid expansion of AI hyper dense, hyper fast solid state storage from solidigm acts as a catalyst for your day data, helping solve energy and physical footprint constraints. From core data centers to the edge and everywhere in between, it's time to build your data infrastructure on a solid foundation with Solidy. Learn more at whatsthestateofyourstorage.com. See Scott, I'm availing myself to your expertise. We're back with more news. So bonds are having a moment. What's usually seen as a steady, predictable investment is having its best year since 2020. So far, the Bloomberg US Aggregate Bond Index has returned around 6.7% in 2025. And you know who's noticed? President Trump. He's bought at least $82 million in corporate municipal bonds since the end of the summer, according to Ethics forums. We're talking about over 175 separate purchases here. And here's the interesting part. A bunch of these investments are in sectors that are so happen to benefit from his own policies. What a surprise. And I Recommend Watching Scott Pelley's piece on 60 Minutes about the Binance CEO. Pardon? It's not new reporting by any stretch of the imagination, but he brings it Together nicely. Anyway, is there a smart move for non presidents? Explain this for the people. Again, I shall not comment because I don't know. But can I meet you? But go ahead. Sorry.

[Kara Swisher]

Look, it's been a bit of a flight to safety. Interest rates, they're historically not that high but in terms of recent history they feel fairly rich. And I think what's going on here is pretty basic and that is a lot of investors feel the way I do and that is we have no idea where to invest or find value. It feels like with gold up 55% it's like where do you go where all the stocks are overvalued, even foreign markets are getting not frothy, but what feels like fully valued. And also it feels like there's a lot of risk in the system. So if your return on bonds is fairly decent and bonds are in the top of the cap structure, meaning that as long Nvidia could, could get cut by 90% but it would likely still be able to pay off its debt or its bonds. And so people generally think of bonds as being a safer instrument and they're getting, they're getting actually paid for the risk. Most people would argue right now because of the run up in interest rates and inflation. So kind of a safe haven is like people look at the market and go, I don't know where. When the Dow is trading at a P of 25 and the Russell 2000 at 34 with the median historical at 19 and 15 respectively. Like okay, stocks are just too goddamn expensive. So there's been just a bit of a flight into the bond market which has rallied the bond market. I don't think it's. The bonds are such a great deal. I think it's a flight, I think it's a quote unquote risk off strategy. And there's more, more money just flowed out of stocks into the bond market. I think it's a pretty basic kind of fear index.

[Scott Galloway]

What do you think about Trump moving in to them?

[Kara Swisher]

You know, no corruption. I don't know what's going on there. I think what's going to happen, I think the biggest thing that's going to happen in the debt markets is that essentially America is a giant bet on AI in terms of as you've noted. Yeah, everything is about AI now if these companies get cut, I don't see any way that the global economy doesn't go into a recession because now the S and P dominates global market. Cap, cap. And these 10 companies are 40% of the S&P. So 20% of global market cap is in 10 companies. But if you think about, I mean, if this thing comes undone, it's just, it's just so. I don't, I mean, it's just, quite frankly, it's just kind of scary. I'm. I'm sitting here thinking, wow, how do I get into bonds?

[Scott Galloway]

What are you investing money in? When you put gold up your ass, what do you do?

[Kara Swisher]

Where do I, you know, where.

[Scott Galloway]

Dolled up your ass.

[Kara Swisher]

Okay, where do I put my money? It's, it's cash.

[Scott Galloway]

That's, that's. And then, of course, you don't want to miss it. Yeah, it's very, it's a very fraught time, I think, anyway.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, I'm sorry, but you asked about Trump. I'm sorry, I'm all over the place here. The, the biggest thing that's going to happen the bond market or it's going to be a weird thing. Not only is America giant bet on AI Trump's presidency is a giant bet on AI Because I just don't think he.

[Scott Galloway]

Very good point.

[Kara Swisher]

If, if the market wasn't up 14, if the market was down 14%, not up 14%, I don't think we'd have National Guard and cities. National Guard. I just think he'd be so much less. The S and P and the Dow continue to be the most damaging metrics ever invested because they give the illusion of prosperity and that everything's all right. It is not. And they also credit or blame the President unfairly for the market's machinations. If the AI trade unwinds, it's going to be terrible for Trump. So I think what he's going to do, I think he's going to backstop these enormous purchases. And what I mean by that is, if OpenAI says if we need $500 billion to buy all these or commit to all these chips, I think they're going to ask the government to backstop the debt, which is, by the way, socialism. But I think he's going to do that. But I wonder what's going to happen to the credit markets when all of a sudden.

[Scott Galloway]

I'm kidding. That's going to drive MAGA crazy. He is going to lose so much election wise, if that happens.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, the reason why treasury bills are so pay a lower interest rate than corporate bonds is corporations are supposed to take greater risks and also they're not as credit worthy as the U.S. government. And when you start melding the private bond market and the U.S. treasury market, you're basically saying, okay, These are no longer. These take on the risk profile of corporate bonds then which could raise interest costs. Interest costs are already our biggest, have become our, I think our biggest expanse behind Social Security. They're a trillion dollars now and that's it. And that's even despite the fact that they trade, you know, most people would argue like a very safe instrument. He'll, he would basically raise our, I believe he would raise our interest rate costs by 100 or 200 billion a year.

[Scott Galloway]

He better not do that. I think that will be talk. Margie will be mad about that one.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh Mag, you're right. Mag will lose their shit over that.

[Scott Galloway]

Anyway, Scott, one more quick break. We'll be back for wins and things.

[Podcast Host (Announcer)]

Sales.

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[Kara Swisher]

Most of what we have today.

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[Scott Galloway]

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[Scott Galloway]

Okay Scott, let's do wins and fails. I think I will go first.

[Kara Swisher]

Go ahead.

[Scott Galloway]

One thing that really irritates me now, I like Seth Meyers. I don't think he's my friend, but I talked to him and he's a really terrific guy. The administration's war on late night continues. President Trump has called on NBC to fire Seth Meyers after the show featured multiple roasts at his expense. Seth is very funny, president said Myers was suffering from TDS or Trump Derangement Syndrome and described his performance as uncontrollable controllable rage. It's ridiculous. In a normal world, that's fine. He can complain about it. He's obsessed with late night. He's obviously up late or something's happening by himself in his room with his clicker. And what really irritated me once again, FCC Chair Brendan Karsh re shared the post. You suck up toady. Do you understand the jig is frigging up for this guy at some point and you are going to go down hard, hard, hard. Let me just say he should not be sharing this post about firing people when he got into trouble before saying we're coming to get Jimmy Kimmel. Remember that we had to take back. I thought he is such a dumb fuck. I don't know what else to say. But Trump can yank. He yammers on about whoever Margaret Greene. I think he is putting her at risk, by the way. And by way the way, call out to Dana Bash for pointing out, Marjorie, you weren't concerned about this until it was directed at you. And Greene said that's a fair criticism. And you're right. But in this case, Brendan Carr continues to make the same stupid mistake because he's not very smart. My win. SNL this week. Glenn Powell was so spectacularly good on snl. He was so good. He really fell into it really beautifully. He. He's. I would. I'm. He's shockingly, surprisingly funny. Um. Cause he's so handsome. And he took off his shirt, of course. Um, but there was an SNL AI photo sketch that. It's not a new idea that AI photos are demented. Sometimes can be demented. Or videos that you make. That's been a trope for, you know, this AI slop thing and weird photos with six hands. It was so funny. Like, it was about a grandmother and their kids give them this AI photos that turn old photos into AI photos. And they come a lot. It was so funny. I recommend everybody see it. It just really encapsulated how fucking ridiculous these AI photo enhancements are. And I just think Glen Powell. Kudos.

[Kara Swisher]

Okay, so my win is. Tom Cruise received his first Oscar. I was here in LA and I kept seeing all these stars at the hotel. And I guess last night was the Governor's Award or something.

[Scott Galloway]

Or Governor's Award Awards.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. And Tom Cruise was given an honorary Oscar for deserved, you know, contribution to the. To the medium. But just I've always thought that Tom Cruise and Brad Pitt. And I think the same is actually true of Channing Tatum. He's in this cool movie called Roofman. But I think these guys are so good looking that it actually diminishes their perception of just what fantastic actors they are.

[Scott Galloway]

Is that what happens to you?

[Kara Swisher]

That does happen to me.

[Scott Galloway]

Me.

[Kara Swisher]

And Bill acknowledges people don't appreciate. But just some of the movies, his body of work, obviously the Mission Impossible and Top Gun franchises. But people forget he was in Risky Business when he was. I think he was a teenager. Edge of Tomorrow, Minority Report, Rain man, the Color of Money, where Paul Newman finally got an Oscar. Collateral A Few Good Men, Jerry Maguire.

[Scott Galloway]

You can't handle the truth. Sorry.

[Kara Swisher]

And my favorite film of his Magnolia, I thought directed by Paul Thomas Anderson. I thought he should have got the award for that.

[Scott Galloway]

Tropic Thunder in the Stiller movie where he plays Harvey Weinstein, where he does his. What is it? Eyes Wide Shut Tropic Thunder.

[Kara Swisher]

I mean this guy.

[Scott Galloway]

Tropic Thunder if you want to laugh your ass off. Tom Cruise is fantastic.

[Kara Swisher]

Caps the Last Samurai, which was actually a pretty good film film. Even his bad films are pretty good. All the right moves. Remember that.

[Scott Galloway]

I like the Irish one. I hate to say it. I like the when he's an Irish far and away. I'm a huge Tom Cruise fan. If despite the Scientologist, I think he's a creepy in real life dude, I have to say I've enjoyed.

[Kara Swisher]

He's not creepy, he's a Scientologist. But he's, he seems like. I've heard he's a really nice man.

[Scott Galloway]

I I on sets he's very generous. He's got that Taylor Swift generousness. He's tough on people in a good way. I, I would agree. You don't hear. It's just the Scientology thing.

[Kara Swisher]

Vanilla sky with the most beautiful woman in the world, Penelope Cruz. Anyway, congratulations. I think Tom Cruise is just an incredible talent.

[Scott Galloway]

Nice, nice. And like that I'm going to agree with you.

[Kara Swisher]

And anyways my, you know, my fail is the boring stuff and that is I just think we are in a crazy fucking overinflated market right now. If you look at even the emerging markets index is up 30%. That's outpaced the S and P. That was the trade I recommended at the end of last year was foreign stocks. And now that trade's kind of over. Bitcoin's at an all time high. 126,000 I mentioned gold is up 55% and now, I mean you, everything is just so expensive. And whenever we get to this level of froth, sometimes there's not a crash, sometimes it just plays out over a decade, which is sometimes even worse. It just goes. There's been entire decades, Cara, where the market just goes flat. Like New York real estate typically doesn't go down, it just goes sideway. For 10 years I was looking, I was reviewing all my investments over the last decade and actually my real estate, my, the place I own in Manhattan has performed the least well. And that can happen when a market is frothy. Sometimes it's not a big dramatic media event, it just goes flat for 10 years. And the S&P forward PE typically averages 17. It's now at 22. It's only traded above 22 times twice since 1985 during the whole waitfor it.com bubble and the COVID 19 pandemic. And after that the market fell off sharply each time. Anyways, I'm usually, I mean granted, Andrew Ostorikin and Josh Brown from Midholtz Management have always reminded me and I need to do this and it's one of my many flaws as investor. You have to constantly ask yourself what could go right. And Andrew says that it's the optimists who have vastly beaten the pessimists in the market over the medium and the long term because of demographics and innovation. The market continues to kind of churn up. But this feels that the, the argument or the loss is I think it's unhealthy for an economy to have this kind of concentration of power and value. It creates fragility and the corruption layered.

[Scott Galloway]

On top of it.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, that doesn't help.

[Scott Galloway]

But no bad decisions, but just the backstopping open AI. What a terrible decision.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, that would be terrible. But Nassim Taleb says he talks about fragility and anti fragility and what the definition of robust is. And a robust industry is one where any one or number of companies go out of business and it wouldn't threaten the entire sector. So if McDonald's goes out of business, you're still going to be able to get your cheap, fatty calories. So the actually the, the fast food industry is very robust. Our economy is becoming very fragile. Fragile because of the regulatory capture and also just the hysteria around this space. And we now have 10 companies that are literally the string that if they get pulled on, puts the global economy into a recession. So it's boring. But my fail is that's worried in la. Well, a lack of antitrust. Anyways, my win is Tom Cruise finally getting the recognition he deserves. And my failure is we have let our economy become way too concentrated across a small number. We have an anti fragile or we have a fragile economy right now based on this trade, which is, by the way folks, it's now more crazy town than it was in 99.

[Podcast Host (Announcer)]

Correct.

[Scott Galloway]

All right, that's really bracing and sobering. Anyway, we want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business, tech or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com pivot submit a question for the show or call 85551 pivot elsewhere in the Karen Scott universe, this week with Kara Swisher, I spoke with filmmakers Ken Burns and Sarah Botstein about the American Revolution. Their new six part docu series airing on pbs. I highly recommend it. Let's listen to a clip of Ken talking about young people.

[Ken Burns]

They're more open, they're persuadable. They went with the democratic Socialist. You know, Democratic Socialists don't kill Jews. National Socialists kill Jews. Many of our allies are, have been or are democratic Socialists. I'm not worried about democratic Socialists. I'm worried about dictators. That's what I'm worried about. And so are they. Cause they told us which way they wanted to go.

[Scott Galloway]

Okay, that was a great interview. And again, I recommend the show and it's really full of really things I didn't know. And I'm a history buff. Okay, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot and be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back on Friday. Scott Reach us out Today's show was.

[Kara Swisher]

Produced by Lara Naiman, Zoe Marcus and Taylor Griffin. Ernie and her Todd engineered this episode. Jim Mackle edited the video. Thanks also to Drew Burrows, Mia Sivero and Dan Shalon. Nishad Kura is Vox Media's executive producer of podcast. Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the [e-mail] pod we'll be back later this week for another breakdown of all things tech and business.

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