Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart

Summary

Pivot Podcast Summary: "Biden's Cancer Diagnosis, U.S. Credit Downgrade, and Trump Bullies Walmart"
Release Date: May 20, 2025
Hosts: Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway

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1. Introduction and Banter

Timestamp: 00:01 – 08:05

The episode opens with light-hearted banter between hosts Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway. They discuss a New York Times article featuring Kara on a climbing wall, leading to humorous exchanges about personal anecdotes and playful teasing about each other’s habits and personalities.

Notable Quote:

• Kara Swisher (02:57): "They literally went with the headline 'Kara Swisher Scales Her Empire Even More'. It was like, oh my God, it's going to be that."
• Scott Galloway (04:02): "You wear Jordans."

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2. President Joe Biden's Cancer Diagnosis

Timestamp: 08:05 – 10:35

Kara introduces the heavy news of President Joe Biden being diagnosed with an aggressive form of prostate cancer that has metastasized to his bones. The cancer is hormone-sensitive, offering potential for effective management. The couple of hosts express their sadness and reflect on Biden's legacy, despite some reservations about his age and mental fitness.

Notable Quotes:

• Kara Swisher (08:57): "I'm sad for him... He obviously shouldn't have run... We felt we needed a fresh start."
• Scott Galloway (10:35): "Any cover-up? No, biology is undefeated. We need age limits, folks."

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3. U.S. Credit Downgrade by Moody's

Timestamp: 10:35 – 25:18

Scott delves into the recent downgrade of the U.S. credit rating by Moody's, the first to strip the U.S. of its AAA rating. The downgrade is attributed to persistent fiscal deficits and growing interest costs exacerbated by the proposed $4 trillion tax and spending bill spearheaded by President Trump. The hosts discuss the severe implications, including increased borrowing costs for Americans, potential economic downturns, and the burden placed on future generations.

Notable Quotes:

• Scott Galloway (19:27): "If the U.S. declares default, we could see ATMs stop working. It's a big deal."
• Kara Swisher (22:58): "The deficits here are talking about adding four and a half trillion to the deficits."

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4. Donald Trump's Trade Attacks on Walmart and Apple

Timestamp: 29:03 – 35:15

Trump has been actively targeting major corporations like Walmart and Apple over their supply chain decisions, particularly their moves to increase production in countries like India. He criticizes these companies for not complying with his economic directives, threatening consumers that tariffs will be passed on if companies don’t adjust their operations favorably.

Notable Quotes:

• Trump (30:28): "We're not interested in you building in India. India can take care of themselves."
• Scott Galloway (32:10): "Walmart operates with very low margins, and absorbing these costs is just not feasible."

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5. Meta's AI Delays and Fraud Issues

Timestamp: 35:15 – 40:44

The discussion shifts to Meta, which has postponed the release of its largest AI model, LLaMA 4, to address internal challenges like fraud and scam proliferation on its platform. Despite attempts to manage the issue, employees report significant frustrations with the company’s ineffective measures to combat scams.

Notable Quotes:

• Kara Swisher (35:12): "Why isn’t Meta using AI to fix these scams?"
• Scott Galloway (38:18): "Someone had created an AI representation of me to scam people into joining WhatsApp groups for stock tips."

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6. Novo Nordisk Pushes Out CEO Amid Market Struggles

Timestamp: 44:02 – 51:32

Novo Nordisk has ousted its CEO, Lars Jorgensen, due to declining stock prices and increased competition in the anti-obesity drug market. The company has faced supply shortages and stiff competition from Eli Lilly’s products, leading to a significant drop in share value.

Notable Quotes:

• Scott Galloway (45:33): "Novo Nordisk is not exceptionally innovative. They failed to create moats against competitors."
• Kara Swisher (47:49): "Their business model doesn't work in the new environment."

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7. Weight Watchers Files for Bankruptcy

Timestamp: 51:32 – 58:50

Weight Watchers has filed for bankruptcy, fulfilling one of Scott’s predictions. The company struggled to adapt to the evolving weight loss industry, particularly facing competition from GLP-1 drugs and other innovative solutions. Kara and Scott discuss the implications of Weight Watchers' failure on the market and consumer choices.

Notable Quotes:

• Scott Galloway (47:49): "I predicted Weight Watchers’ downfall because their business model is obsolete."
• Kara Swisher (50:01): "Their constant shifting strategies couldn't keep up with the market demands."

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8. Wins and Fails

Timestamp: 53:56 – 62:18

Fails:

• Amazon's Partnership with Humane: Kara criticizes Amazon’s collaboration with Humane, an AI company launched by Mohammed bin Salman, citing ethical concerns following the Khashoggi incident.
• Trump's Attacks on Celebrities: Scott and Kara lament Trump's baseless lawsuits and investigations targeting artists like Taylor Swift and Beyoncé for their support of political figures.

Wins:

• Mission Impossible: Final Reckoning: Both hosts express excitement about the upcoming movie, highlighting their enthusiasm for the franchise.
• Dr. Jessica Knurick’s Science-Based Approach: Scott praises Dr. Knurick for her evidence-based nutrition advice, contrasting her credibility with that of anti-vaccine proponents.

Notable Quotes:

• Kara Swisher (54:01): "President Trump attacking Taylor Swift and Oprah is just ridiculousness."
• Scott Galloway (57:11): "Dr. Jessica Knurick debunks all the bullshit with science-based facts."

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9. Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Timestamp: 62:18 – 64:37

The hosts wrap up the episode by reflecting on the discussed topics, reiterating the importance of informed decision-making in leadership roles and policy-making. They encourage listeners to engage with the podcast by submitting questions and staying tuned for future episodes.

Notable Quotes:

• Scott Galloway (62:23): "Well, I'm trying to scale my business."
• Kara Swisher (63:27): "Thanks for listening to Pivot. Be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel."

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Key Insights and Conclusions

1. Leadership and Age Limits: Both hosts emphasize the necessity of implementing age limits for leadership positions to ensure cognitive and physical fitness in critical roles such as the presidency.

2. Fiscal Responsibility: The U.S. faces significant economic challenges due to unchecked fiscal deficits, which affect the nation’s creditworthiness and economic stability.

3. Corporate and Political Relations: The intersection of business decisions and political directives can lead to conflicts that have widespread economic repercussions, as seen with Trump’s interference with major corporations.

4. Technology and Ethics: The reliance on AI and automation by tech giants like Meta raises concerns about fraud, scams, and ethical responsibilities in managing digital platforms.

5. Market Dynamics and Competition: Companies failing to innovate or create sustainable competitive advantages, such as Novo Nordisk and Weight Watchers, are vulnerable to market pressures and competition.

6. Health and Policy: The discussion underscores the importance of scientifically grounded health policies and the detrimental impact of misinformation on public health outcomes.

Actionable Takeaways for Listeners

• Stay Informed: Understanding the nuances of fiscal policies and their long-term impacts can empower listeners to advocate for responsible governance.

• Critical Evaluation: Evaluating the credibility of sources, especially in health and technology sectors, is crucial in combating misinformation.

• Support Ethical Leadership: Advocacy for age limits and better governance can lead to more effective and trustworthy leadership at all levels.

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Final Note: This episode of "Pivot" provides a comprehensive analysis of pressing issues at the intersection of politics, economics, and technology. Through their engaging dialogue, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway offer listeners a nuanced perspective on the challenges and developments shaping our world.

Transcript

[Kara Swisher]

Support for this show comes from Smartsheet. Have you ever wondered about all the incremental steps it takes to launch a rocket ship or maybe get a race car around a track or perform a life changing surgery? These feats of human ingenuity are executed by many people, taking many steps that lead up to one big goal making the seemingly impossible possible. Whether you're organizing a team, scaling a business, or sending a rover across the solar system, smartsheet is a work management platform that helps all those details turn into one big leap. Smartsheet work with Flow learn more at smartsheet.com Vox.

[Scott Galloway]

Support for this podcast and the following message is brought to you by E Trade from Morgan Stanley. With E Trade you can dive into the market with Easy use tools, $0 commissions and a wide range of investments. And now there's even more to love. You can get access to industry leading, research and insights from Morgan Stanley to help guide your decisions. Open an account and get up to $1,000 or more with a qualifying deposit. Get started [e-mail] terms and other fees apply. Investing involves risks. Morgan Stanley Smith Barney LLC Member SIPIC E Trade is a business of Morgan Stanley. This podcast is supported by Google. Hi, I'm Dave, one of the product leads on Google Gemini. We just launched Gemini Canvas. It's my new go to for real time collaboration with Gemini. Write docs, edit code, get feedback, iterate all in one new interactive space from a blank slate to a built out prototype. My favorite part? Ask Gemini to leave feedback and suggestions just like you would with a teammate. Check it out for [e-mail] I'm so.

[Kara Swisher]

Glad to be doing more years with you. I love our show, I love our team and I mostly love you Scott Gallagher.

[Scott Galloway]

I appreciate you saying that. I reciprocate all of those good emotions Kara. Thank you.

[Kara Swisher]

Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher.

[Scott Galloway]

So I'm an adolescent. When I wake up in the morning I immediately grab my phone and the first thing I do this morning is I open the New York Times app and what do I see? I see this big colorful picture of a seven year old boy on a climbing wall and I look at it and granted I'm a little, you know, misty eyed the edibles, just trying to, you know, no coffee yet, pre coffee, post edibles and I'm like I recognize that climbing wall. And then I look and I'm like that's my climbing wall. That's your climbing Wall in my place in soho. And that's my seven year old, specifically my co host. That's my seven year old boy, specifically my co host. And then the next. I didn't even read the article. I went down to the next picture. The next picture is you looking very professional in my studio.

[Kara Swisher]

That's correct.

[Scott Galloway]

Like, are you going to start banging my wife? Are you literally assuming my identity? Seriously, what's going on here?

[Kara Swisher]

Well, someone was blibbity, blabbity with the New York Times or someone because all this news got out, so they moved the story forward. I was supposed to have a picture taken in my studio here and I said, oh, we were doing it at Scott's. That's the way. Because that's where I was last week. And so it turned out well. It meshed with the headline.

[Scott Galloway]

Can you say puff piece? Well, let me. What was the title?

[Kara Swisher]

Climbing Future Climbing.

[Scott Galloway]

No, the title. I'm sorry. The title of the article was Kara Swisher Scales Her Empire even More. I mean, it was like, oh, my God, it's going to be that. They literally, like scales her reach even more.

[Kara Swisher]

Wow. I like your quote, though. I like. They call this a screwball comedy. I like that. That was nice. You're feral. Apparently. You're feral.

[Scott Galloway]

Feral. That was kind of rough.

[Kara Swisher]

I know. But it's true, though. It's accurate. Feral, feral. You're like, ah. You know, I'm sort of calm and I'm like, ugh.

[Scott Galloway]

Like, oh, yeah. You're just very chill. Yeah, that's right. You're just mushroom chocolates come to life.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. Yeah. I did like your quote about making me a billionaire. I really appreciate that. That was an interesting insight of our copacetic relationship. You don't like that I text you at all times. I had no idea.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, I know. Most of the time it's fine.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, most of the time.

[Scott Galloway]

Most of the time I just ignore it. The pivot text thing. Like, if I see pivot come up, I'm like, pivot team. I'm like, don't read it. I do sometimes text all these stories about the latest. The latest in Wokistan, anyways.

[Kara Swisher]

No, it's not. No, it's.

[Scott Galloway]

No, it's not.

[Kara Swisher]

No, it's not. It's so untrue. Anyway, thank you. It was a very nice article and the photographer was amazing. Her last assignment, I think, was doing the West Village Girls for New York magazine. And then she did that beautiful Bill Burr picture. She's known for her blue. Her blue framing.

[Scott Galloway]

I look Like a. I thought it looked like an ad for lesbian Goranimals.

[Kara Swisher]

Thank you.

[Scott Galloway]

It just like in the new. The new Go Animals section for I love Granimals. The young lady in your life that's decided. She. She likes Joan Baez or. I don't know. Or Katie. What's her name?

[Kara Swisher]

Melissa Etheridge.

[Scott Galloway]

Melissa Etheridge. Like, it's like. Okay, Dockers and a colorful Dockers.

[Kara Swisher]

I was wearing Jordans.

[Scott Galloway]

What are you talking about, Tommy? Bahamas and Dockers. That's. That's what you should request to be buried in. Seriously, I have nights, and the hearse needs to be a Subaru or some lame Evie. I'm already planning. I'm already.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, how many lesbian tropes are you going to pull out of your little hat?

[Scott Galloway]

They're so good, though.

[Kara Swisher]

They're not good. It's called a Lesborough, first of all.

[Scott Galloway]

A Lesborough. That's right.

[Kara Swisher]

A U Haul. You forgot the U Haul one. There's so many you're missing. You have to get to. Anyway, it was a nice piece. And more to the point, thank you again for letting me stay at your beautiful home. I had a great time and Louis, really appreciate it. They have driven across country, the two boys, and they're stopping at all kinds of places, which are very funny. And it was really helpful for our family. I really appreciate it. And thank you for letting me use your climbing wall to become even more egotistical. I really appreciate that. To climb to further heights.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah. Yeah. It was a good article. You must be happy with it.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, it was good. It was good. It was nice. It was very nice. And I like the. It had news of our. We're staying at Vox. That's really what the news is. Correct. And that's a really. We're happy that deal is done, aren't we?

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But most importantly, my girlfriend said that if our podcast gets hits number number gets next year's Webby that we'll try anal. So please don't vote. Her strap on is huge. And it really scares me, Carol. Really?

[Kara Swisher]

That's how you would.

[Scott Galloway]

I've been looking up lesbian jokes and I couldn't find anything, but I thought that was pretty funny.

[Kara Swisher]

We're going to move you on. Cause we've got a lot to get to today anyway. We'll be here for four more years, everybody. So just remember at least this podcast. Who knows what's going on.

[Scott Galloway]

I loved it. Clearly, everyone was going on background correcting each other about the deal, trying to make each other look better or worse.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, yeah, it's a good deal. It's a good deal. And it's a good deal for everybody.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, you know what I said? I said, I told you when we were talking about how to do this deal, I'm like, you got to start thinking like a billionaire, like the people you cover.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, you did, you did. And we have gotten to a good place. We are very happy to stay here. We do like working with vox, but we did talk to some interesting people. It was an interesting. An interesting insight into the podcast universe and where things are going and you have to be creative and try different things. We did a lot of things that are really interesting in the deal and hopefully it will yield us both many more riches to come and good shows, mostly because I think our fans tend to like us. Hopefully we'll get even bigger and then I'll have another piece in four years. I don't know where I'll be in your apartment. Maybe I'll own your apartment at that point. I'll say about that.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, it's all yours. Well, you kind of own it now. You kind of.

[Kara Swisher]

It's like having a.

[Scott Galloway]

You don't want to own a boat. You want a friend with a boat. That's kind of where you are right now.

[Kara Swisher]

I love that. Well, you can stay at any of my homes.

[Scott Galloway]

I'm not sure. I wonder if you've been there more days this year than I have.

[Kara Swisher]

I think I have. I think I actually.

[Scott Galloway]

Anyways, congratulations on the article.

[Kara Swisher]

Thank you, thank you. I'm excited for your FT Pink Bitch or Salmon Bitch article. You have to send it to me when it comes out. Anyway, we've got a lot to get to today. There's a lot going on, including Trump bullying Walmart and Apple. How ridiculous. And meta. Delaying the release of its new a. But first, President Joe Biden has been diagnosed with an aggressive form of prostate cancer that has spread to his bones. Biden and his family are reviewing treatment options with doctors. A statement from his office notes the cancer appears to be hormone sensitive, which allows for effective management. Messages of support have come in from across the political spectrum, including President Trump, though Don Jr. And other MAGA adjacent folks are already spreading theories about coverups and conspiracies. All this as a new book and audio recordings are raising questions about his mental fitness over the last few years. Any reaction to this news except sort of sad.

[Scott Galloway]

Why don't you go first on this one, Kara?

[Kara Swisher]

I'm sad for him. I don't feel like there's been a lot of people like you should talk more about this Biden book. Look, it's in the rear viewed mirror. He obviously shouldn't have run. Scott in particular. And then I jumped on the same wagon as him. Thought he should have stepped down much earlier. We talked about it a lot. We got a lot of attacks for saying that. I don't want to say we were right. We just felt we needed. It wasn't so much that he. It was that he was older, but that we needed a fresh start. And as someone who was up to the task of the presidency. And by the way, we said the same thing about Donald Trump. He's too old. He's just simply too old and is not headed in the right direction mentally or physically. But I do feel badly this guy has devoted himself to service. I think on the whole he will be judged well by history. I think he's done a lot of important things as an interesting evolution. I think the last couple years of his life have not gone well for him and this is bad news. As for Don Jr. And other MAGA people doing this, go fuck yourselves. It's really grotesque. He wasn't hiding cancer. He may have had it. Maybe he didn't get checked, I don't know. But given that the MAGA people already were pushing the Epstein suicide conspiracy theories and now Dan Bongino, who did that, one of the people who did it is now saying it was suicide is just these people, all they want to do is spread theory, theories to create a mess. And it's sad that they're doing it in the fact that this guy probably is in a little more. It's probably not a very good prognosis for Joe Biden would be my guess. I'm not a doctor, but sounds like it.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah. I mean, I had a bunch of thoughts around it. My first thought was how did the President of the United States. I get scanned all the time now. And it was shocking to me that his first kind of quote unquote diagnosis we know of had a Gleason test of nine. I mean, and it spread to his bones, typically. I would have thought that he'd be getting scans all the time and getting PSA tests all the time and that I was shocked that it went. So the kind of. The first. What sounds like the first recognition of it was that it was this advanced. So he's already seven years past the life expectancy of the average American man. He's had a wonderful life of service. It's a tragedy for him and his family. Not nearly the tragedy that he has endured losing children, but you know, he's had an incredible life and you know, best wishes to him. But it does bring up some really big issues and would first off, the COVID up. Yeah, it was a cover up. And guess what? Anyone with aging parents, we all are co conspirators in this cover up. Because your parents, their brain shrinks and they don't realize. No, they think it's insane that you take their driver's license from them. Were you kidding? I beat Trump. I'm pushing back on Russia. I passed the Infrastructure Act. Of course I can be president for another four years. I mean that was a less crazy statement than a lot of the shit my dad said at 70, I mean you're going through the same thing. And not only that, the people around you have tremendous goodwill and affection for you and they get co opted into believing, oh, maybe he can go another four years. So there wasn't anything sinister here. There's what happens a lot. And for me this all goes to the same place.

[Kara Swisher]

Very good point, Scott.

[Scott Galloway]

And that is we need age limits, folks. Biology is undefeated. It's absolutely undefeated. No matter how. I was the first to come out of the closet as an ageist and say this guy was too old. And Bill Maher called me an ageist and I said, I am an ageist.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, you have a lot of shit, I'll tell you that. You did get.

[Scott Galloway]

You know who was also an ageist? Biology. Biology always wins. And the reality is this would have put the nation in a real pickle because you would have had a president who probably wouldn't have handed over the mantle, say he'd been reelected, who probably wouldn't have handed over the mantle to Vice President Harris. Because quite frankly, Joe Biden is a wonderful man. He's also a narcissist and it would have made the country's leadership less robust. We have made a decision that 34 year olds don't have the experience, the cognitive abilities, the reasoning and the judgment to be president. A 74 year old probably doesn't. Now I'm sure there'll be, I'm sure there's a hundred year old that will do the marathon and does the New York Times crossword puzzle every day. We need age limits at the upper limit.

[Kara Swisher]

What's your age limit again? I forgot.

[Scott Galloway]

I would probably say 75. 70 or 75, yeah.

[Kara Swisher]

It's interesting because a lot of places are 65, like the New York Times editor is 65. Right. There's, there's like I would say 70.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, and this is the thing. It's not only there's so many benefits to this one. We're about to. The Trump administration is about to pass through a ridiculous tax bill and all the goodies go to old people. Why? Because our Congress is a cross between the golden girls and the land of the walking dead. So they keep voting themselves more money and great young people who understand technology and, and have a tendency to think more about climate change and the deficit because they're going to be around for 50 years. Do you realize in 30 years that three quarters of Congress is going to be dead? So this creates a lack of vested interest in forward leaning future investments. In addition, you end up with a situation where I see this happen at universities where tenured faculty won't go away, creating a lack of opportunity.

[Kara Swisher]

You've been talking about this for a while, about the ten year system.

[Scott Galloway]

And not only that, it's, it's the kindest thing to do because, and I'm bragging here, but I'm oftentimes on the board. People go like, he's the asshole. Let him have the hard conversations. I've had two conversations with CEOs who were aging to say, it's time for you to step down. I've also had conversations with other directors who step down from the CEO of their company. And the only thing they have is that fucking board directorship where they show up for free dinner every three months and speak big thoughts. And they love saying, I'm on the board of this public company. And here's the thing that's wonderful about term limits and age limits is you can send people off and say, you've been amazing, here's your gold watch.

[Kara Swisher]

Right? And then it's not the excuse, but you do. There is a sense of like, people want to hold on. I was at one of these, like, clubs on the Upper east side and it was full of those guys and I kept thinking, they just can't let go. They can't. You know what I mean? Like, it was interesting, you see why.

[Scott Galloway]

I had one of these conversations not with a CEO, but with a director. And he was like, he said, I remember he was very gracious about it. He said, I know this was a hard conversation. He goes, and you know what he said? He said, you know what? At the end of the day, he's like, it's time for me to go home and die. And that's how people see this is, wait, you want to send me home? This is all I have.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, they know it. You know, that's the issue with my mom, too. She knows, right? They know. This is it. This is the. If they have to stop or they stop getting decision making power or power or whatever. In Biden's case, it's just tragic because it puts a. I want to get it back to Biden, but it puts in the ending of this is not good. It's not a good thing. And especially when you have crazy fucking MAGA people. They were going on about Jill Biden not knowing about. She's not a medical doctor, people. She's his wife, really. And so.

[Scott Galloway]

But she does call herself doctor. That was a mistake. She does call herself doctor.

[Kara Swisher]

She has a doctorate, Whatever. In any case, this has not ended well. And this is how it often happens. People don't end well. Can you make me a promise? Can we end well?

[Scott Galloway]

So to be clear, I mean, I'm not obsessed with death, but I'm looking. I think a lot about it. I have set aside money. I know where I want to die. I know the drugs. I know the people. I have set up. I want to watch Apple. I want to live my life again. I've thought about the Apple reels, I've thought about the music. And I want to like that great Mexican artist. Who? Frida.

[Kara Swisher]

Frida Kayla.

[Scott Galloway]

Frida upset. I want my death to be glorious and I don't want to come back. I purposely. And also, I've decided at a certain age, I'm done. I'm off of social media and I'm just going to enjoy relationships and do just fun shit. Because you know what? You have an obligation at some point to make room for other people to say, okay, it's time to give fresh voices an opportunity here. It's time to create some room at the top of the pyramid. There are so many outstanding young people.

[Kara Swisher]

I feel the same way, except I'm not going out like you. I'm just going to let nature take its course with Kara Swisher. But I'll be there for you if you want that.

[Scott Galloway]

I appreciate that.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. I'll do an interpretive dance in front of you.

[Scott Galloway]

Just before you die, you have to start climbing on my climbing wall.

[Kara Swisher]

Anyway, we have to move on. This is getting dark. But anyway, not today. By the way, let me just say Mission Impossible is coming next this week. I'm so excited.

[Scott Galloway]

Speaking of aging, I like action heroes who are 63.

[Kara Swisher]

You know what? He looks good. He does look supposed to be a great movie.

[Scott Galloway]

He does look good.

[Kara Swisher]

All right. Speaking of something that's not doing so, well, Moody's has officially downgraded the U.S. credit rating. You wrote me right away about this. Stripping the country of its last AAA rating of the last of the three major agencies. Moody's blamed the downgrade on successive administrations in Congress failing to reverse the trend of large annual fiscal deficits and growing interest costs. The credit downgrade comes as Republicans try to pass Trump's big beautiful bill. I wish you would not of that a sweeping tax and spending package estimated to increase the deficit by about $4 trillion. The bill cleared the House Budget Committee late Sunday night after initially getting blocked by some GOP deficit hawks. They never hold on these hawks. It sucks. In terms of the market reaction. As of this recording, stocks are down and the 30 year treasury yield just hit its highest level in a year and a half. You texted me this is big. When the Moody's news broke. Explain to people why this downgrade is more than a symbolic move. Scott Besant was all over the TVs on the weekend dismiss Moody's calling it a lagging indicator on Meet the Press. He also said it's no big deal that consumers have to pay tariff money. Of course, he admitted they will have to and it won't be China that's paying. And by the way, there's a new acronym for People Ditching American investments, which you've talked about a lot. Abusa anywhere but the usa. So talk a little bit about this because you wrote this is, you know, you do not respond to a lot of stuff when we text you or I text you. This one you did.

[Scott Galloway]

Everything just got a little bit more expensive for every American. We were talking about corporate boards and companies. We spend a lot of time assessing the marketplace and trying to figure out when we go out and borrow money for growth, how we ensure we get the highest rating possible from these agencies whose job is to do the diligence that most investors don't have the time to do do. And then based on the rating they give you saying what is the likelihood of default? What is the likelihood of the risk that these, this entity won't be able to pay back the money. And based on the rating, it's the interest rate you have to pay to people in order for them to take the risk and loan you money. And if you get a good rating and you say, you know what, let's not borrow as much money, let's borrow less such that our multiple, our debt to call it EBITDA ratio is a little bit lower and we get a, a better credit rating and we can Borrow money at a lower cost, meaning that the interest on that debt is not as big so we can make more investments in forward leaning growth related investments. And oftentimes if you get to a point where you keep borrowing more and more money and then start borrowing money to pay the debt, which we are doing now, it causes a downward spiral where at some point you begin to look like a Donald Trump enterprise, where he's done the following. I'll borrow money from anyone who's stupid enough to loan me money for my casino. And if it works out and all the projections hit, I can pay it back and make a lot of money. And if it doesn't work out, I'll just declare default. Okay? Declaring default in the United States would be really bad for all of us. I mean people, I can't even imagine what might happen. You might see ATM stop working. And so essentially what has happened here is the third and final agency of the big three has said our ability to pay back our debt based on the reckless fiscal policy, our reckless spending and inability to raise taxes or raise revenues means that we are now a larger risk than we were just last year. And as a result, every American is going to have to pay more on their student loans, their credit cards, on their mortgages, and companies will likely have to pay more, meaning we will have less money to invest and grow. This is a big deal.

[Kara Swisher]

Along with the tariffs, which Bessant was admitting finally.

[Scott Galloway]

But the deficits here, they're talking about adding four and a half trillion dollars to the deficits. And again, see above catering to old people in America. They're not cutting Social Security, they're not cutting Medicare for old people because even old rich people like their Medicare. They're cutting Medicaid. Suppose about 8 million people are going to lose their Medicaid so young people will have a sicker populace. They're cutting SNAP payments, which by the way show a 2 to 7% return on investment. As little kids don't grow up to have diabetes, need hip replacements and kidney dialysis. So let's cut. It's as if we're literally in a movie here and America is Nicolas Cage and leaving Las Vegas. And he's thought, I'm just so fucking rabidly addicted to alcohol as American. Old people are too addicted to spending above their means that I'm just gonna ignore the future and I'm just gonna drink myself to death because all of my debts and all of my relationships don't matter because I'm gonna be dead soon. This is literally how we're behaving in the United States right now because we are borrowing according to this tax plan, $5 trillion from our kids. And the chickens won't come to roost while we're still alive, but they will come to roost. And our kids are going to have to pay this shit back, right, or.

[Kara Swisher]

Do it pay it forward again, which is what happens. And at some point, it does spin out of control. The fact that people understand Donald Trump is the one that has increased the deficit more than any other president in the of the presidency.

[Scott Galloway]

George Washington to George Bush, 7 trillion, Donald Trump, 8 trillion. And by the way, Biden continued it with 5 trillion. And now everyone, it's like that number, I think of negative 40. Negative 40 is where Celsius and Fahrenheit meet. That is a really inhospitable bad environment. And whenever the far left and the far right meet, that means it's an inhospitable bad idea. The far left and the far right meet on anti vaccine craziness, they meet on antisemitism, and they meet on reckless spending and tax cuts such that we can explode the deficit. This is negative 40.

[Kara Swisher]

Why don't these GOP deficit hogs ever stick? I mean, seriously, they never stick. I'm like waiting. Chip Roy, get yourself a fucking backbone. You say it out loud and you say, I'm not going to do this. And then every time you get Mike Johnson, I don't know what he's doing to you, but it's like you're the only people that can stop this and you won't. So really what you're saying is crap.

[Scott Galloway]

I mean, I hate the moral argument. I'm going to make it. It's so cruel because no, they're not talking about. I could sort of, at least theoretically get on board with the following. We have to make really painful cuts. I would make them around Social Security, I'd make them probably around some of our military spending. I'm sympathetic to the argument of we are fiscally irresponsible. We are robbing from future generations. So we have to make really ugly, painful cuts. It's terrible, but it stocks to be an adult. But we're going to match every dollar cut one to one or two to one with an increase in revenues. By increasing the taxes on corporations, we're going to have an alternative minimum tax on anyone saying making more than a million dollars. I could hold my nose and get on board with that. But all these quote unquote fiscal hawks aren't saying we need to talk about the other side of the ledger and raise revenues. What they're saying is these Medicare cuts, I'm sorry, these Medicaid cuts don't go deep enough. And I mean, this shit is really scary for some people. And it's not only immoral, it's uneconomic, economically stupid.

[Kara Swisher]

If you appeal to the degree you're gonna have a sick, fat, struggling, angry population under you who can't earn and had no economic opportunities, you know where that's gonna go? Anyway, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, Trump gets pissy with Walmart and Apple. Support for Pivot comes from Deleteme. Deleteme makes it easy, quick and safe to remove your personal data online. At a time when surveillance and data breaches are common enough to make everyone vulnerable, more and more online partisans and nefarious actors are finding people's data on the Internet and using it to target them. This can go for political rivals, civil servants, and even outspoken citizens posting their opinions online. With Delete Me, you can protect your personal privacy and the privacy of your business from doxing attacks before sensitive information can be exploited. I've been able to try to delete me and I am sort of astonished by how much stuff is online about me. I know a lot of people have had their information stolen. It's a nightmare, including family members. It's a nightmare to get back. It's really easy to delete your information from these sites using Deleteme. To put it simply, DeleteMe does all the hard work of wiping your personal information from data broker websites. You can take control of your data and keep your private life private by signing up for Deleteme now at a special discount for our listeners. Get 20% off your Delete Me plan when you go to JoinDeleteMe.com pivot and use the promo code Pivot at checkout. The only way to get 20% off is to go to JoinDeleteMe.com pivot and enter the code pivot at checkout. That's JoinDeleteMe.com pivot. CodePivot support for this show comes from Smartsheet. You know that frustrating feeling when you're getting really into the flow of a work test, but when you hear a little ping of a message notification, you then switch your screen, then you open a new application, then check the message, then click on the link in the message. Whoops. That opened a new application and your flow is totally broken. Well, you're definitely not alone here. On average, this toggling between tasks and application adds up to about 9% of time spent working each year. That's five whole work weeks. This distracting task switching is what Harvard Business Review called toggling tasks and increases stressful hormones, decreases focus, and makes it impossible to tap into a state of flow. That's where smartsheet comes in. Smartsheet is the work management software where you and your team can plan, track and deliver their best work without toggling back and forth between multiple applications. Imagine that you could do with those extra five work weeks if your work happened all in one place. Smartsheet work with Flow. Visit smartsheet.com voxt today to learn more. Foreign.

[Scott Galloway]

Comes from NPR's Planet Money. Terrorists, Meme coins, Girl Scout cookies? What do they all have in common? Come on. It's all about the money. Economics is everywhere and in everything, fueling our lives even where we least expect it. Planet Money is here to help explain it all. From the job market to the stock market to prices at the supermarket, the Planet Money team lives to tell a good story. And they do it all in around 30 minutes. It's econ for the rest of us. The Planet Money hosts go to great lengths to help explain the economy, things they've done in the past shot a satellite into space, became a record label, made a comic book, and shorted the entire stock market. And all of it is to help you better understand the world around you. If you're curious to learn something new and exciting about economics every week, you can listen to the Planet Money podcast from npr. I love npr. I grew up with it and everything they touch they do a good job with. Tune into Planet Money every week for entertaining stories and insights about how money shapes our world, stories that can't be found anywhere else. Listen now to Planet Money from npr.

[Kara Swisher]

Scott, we're back. President Trump spent the weekend bullying Walmart after the company CEO said some of the prices could rise within weeks because of the terrorists, obviously. In a post on Truth Social, Trump told Walmart to eat the tariffs and warmed I'll be watching and so will your customers. Scott Besson said that he's spoken with Walmart CEO and the company will absorb some of the tariffs and some may get passed on to consumers. About one third of Walmart's products come from outside the US with large share coming from China and Mexico. And it's not just Walmart. Trump's taking aim at Apple, too. He says that he had a little problem with CEO Tim Cook after hearing the company plans to ramp up iPhone production in India. Apple's trying to cut its reliance on China and aiming to make most of the iPhones sold in the US at factories in India by the end of 2026. Apple announced that $500 billion investment in the US back in February. But apparently that's not for Trump. Let's listen to Trump recount his conversation with Tim Cook. I said, tim, look, we've treated you really good. We put up with all the plants that you built in China for years. Now you gotta build us. We're not interested in you building in India. India can take care of themselves. They're doing very well. So two things very meddlesome with the companies in terms of how they should price it and putting reality. Tariffs cost money and they're gonna pass them on to consumers. What is this? I'll be watching and telling people where to build and thoughts?

[Scott Galloway]

We've talked about this before. We've seen a separation between church and state or that separation begin to erode. And just as important from an economic standpoint is the separation between business and state. And that is Obama shouldn't have been picking winners. I agree with that. And he shouldn't be deciding based on his blood sugar level or who he likes or doesn't like. He shouldn't be singling out companies because that is a form of corruption. Because everyone lines up to just kiss his ass. And not only that, he's a terrible business person. Do you realize that since the iPhone was launched, Apple has trained over 28 million Chinese workers on high tech manufacturing. And also they make about 500 bucks a month at least. An entry level assembler in China. We're not bringing those jobs back to the US they've also invested about. They invest about $55 billion a year into the Chinese economy, which you could argue was the wrong investment or stupid. I mean they've made these extraordinary investments and if you were to bring back which you feasibly just can't do it. But let's just say for shits and giggles, we brought back manufacturing of the iPhone to the U.S. that's a $3,500 iPhone.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, well, you said there's a statistic we need to spend $30 billion over three years to move just 10% of change. The US according to one estimate. And you had noted that the tariff was going to help India. It's not going to happen. It's just simply not going to happen. But talk more about this. I'll be watching at some point. Do they not they just ignore him.

[Scott Galloway]

Or what I would be. I would bet I Think Tim Cook is very savvy. If he says also Walmart, I'd love.

[Kara Swisher]

You to hear from that Walmart.

[Scott Galloway]

I think what they say is we're going, you know, the president is right, we need to build more manufacturing in the US we're announcing and just say okay, the supply chain here is the most complex supply chain in history. We're going to start to build stuff that I knew what it's like to get zoning and nimby. It's going to take a year, da da da. And just wait till he's about, until he's out of office. Because to bring the supply chain of to produce Apple at 50% of the capacity they would need in the U.S. i mean a would probably crush their market by 50 or their market share by 50 or 60 points and probably take the most held stock in the world down 40 or 60% within a year. If they ever really said they were going to try and do that. People can't afford a 30. I mean the market for a thousand dollar iPhone is probably 5 or 8x what the market is for a $3,500 iPhone. I'd be like that's a lot of money. And then all the stories would be oh that's a huge gift to the Korean company Sams Song. So that's just not going to happen. So what I bet they do is a couple press releases about how he's right, we're going to invest more in American manufacturing. The real opportunity here of going to solutions in my view is to kiss and make up with China and to convince them to use some of their manufacturing prowess to build factories in the US similar to the way Japanese automobile companies have built Japanese car brand plants in the US but even then it would have to be super high end manufacturing because to justify the cost of our labor. Anyways, this is a distraction. Walmart gets about, I think about a third of its products.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

From China by China, Mexico are imported. They will just in Walmart. If he wants to take on Walmart and Apple, I think that is, you know, that's crazy. And then this ridiculous notion that Scott Besanta saying well Walmart is going to eat the tariffs. Walmart operates. Walmart's whole value proposition is it passes on cost savings to the consumer. They operate at a business of scale with very low margins, but it's got more scale than any company in the world. I think it's the biggest top line company in the world. So the notion that they can absorb these costs and not pass them on to consumers. It's just not. I mean, okay, say they decided to do that for the benefit of consumers. That takes their earnings down, which takes their share price down, which takes their hiring down, which means the wealth of American households go down. Means they make fewer investments, fewer hires, less money for bonuses. I mean, okay, that's a cost. You might argue. Well, that hurts shareholders. Fine, you can make that argument. But folks, they've got a business to run and they will figure out a way to optimize their margins.

[Kara Swisher]

Correct? And it'll he is living in a different era.

[Scott Galloway]

He's a shitty business person. He doesn't understand economics.

[Kara Swisher]

He is. And he's living in an era that doesn't exist anymore anyway. We have to move on. It's just ridiculous. He shouldn't be meddling, putting his fat fingers, fat shorts fingers, fingers in people's corporate decision making. Meta is delaying the release of its Behemoth, its largest Llama 4 AI model. Behemoth was originally scheduled to be released in April, but the company is now aiming for fall. This is something that seemed expected that these AI models would run into problems as they move forward. Another problem Meta is facing, though, is fraud. According to documents reviewed by the Wall Street Meta is the leader in the pack when it comes to Internet scams. A tech giant claimed nearly half of all reported scams on Zelle between 2023 and 24. Regulators in the UK and Australia found that 70% of the new advertisers on the platform are promoting scams are low quality products. Of course they'll take their business. However, employees have reported a reluctance to limit advertisers reporting, allowing up to 32 automated strikes for financial FUD before banning accounts. I mean seriously, seriously. And meanwhile, over at places like Microsoft, they're laying off 3% of its staff. Over 40% of layoffs were in engineering. The cuts come after Satya Nadella announced up to 30% of the company's code is now written by AI. He himself is now listening to podcasts by AI and they synopsize them so he doesn't have to listen to the whole thing, which was a weird little fact that was in one of the stories. So what's going on here? Let's talk first about the difficulties that AI is running into and then the difficulties that tech companies are running into.

[Scott Galloway]

It's so I'm involved in a company called Section, which is upskilling AI for the enterprise, right? Trying to help companies figure out how to leverage AI. And the CEO of the company, my friend Greg Shove My whole rap has always been that AI is not going to take your job. Someone who understands AI is going to take your job. And he said, well, some of that's true, but AI is in fact taking jobs. And there's been a real kind of gag from a lot of employees if you. They're very suspicious of AI at the enterprise. Like, okay, are you asking me to cooperate in my own execution here? This will be great for Microsoft's bottom line. I mean, you know, that is. That is absolutely the nitro and glycerin of an explosion in earnings, is when you can reduce, you know, these costs. And they claim that it's more about efficiency and not cost cutting. On a personal level, I've been. I don't want to call myself, I'm not a victim. But I started getting text messages of a video and a few people will say that I didn't know that well, should I do this? And I click on it and it's a video that was running on Instagram and it was me saying each week at my three best stock tips. Right now I'm the. The WhatsApp. I have a WhatsApp group fake.

[Kara Swisher]

Scott.

[Scott Galloway]

And it was, and it was. It looked pretty good on a phone, on a computer. You could tell it was AI, but it looked pretty good. And people were sending it to me saying, are you aware of this? Should I do this? So someone, a scammer, had figured out a way to create an AI representation of me trying to get built people into spending money to join a WhatsApp group where I would make quote, unquote, stock picks. We complained and vociferously early and often to meta. You can still find it, Cara. They don't care. It's like, oh, people are clicking on it.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

So these scams are. And what I don't get is they could absolutely use AI themselves to figure out this shit and take shit down.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, they want more advertisers. You remember when Amazon was doing books of mine that weren't books of mine? It's the same thing, but these companies just want to fix this stuff. Otherwise they would clean it up like they want more advertisers. It's the consistent record of this company to screw consumers before themselves before fixing the problem or taking the costs that it would take to do this because they just want to. I mean, can you imagine that many knocks before you get thrown off? Do you need that many knocks before 32 automated strikes for financial fraud. Fraud before banning accounts. Like, it's just. Why isn't it 2 or 5 or why don't we investigate after 5 and then dump after 10 or something? It just is. It's a company that doesn't care about that because they're just, you know, and these companies will cut, let me just say software engineers, they will cut you tomorrow if the minute they can have AI write this code, they are in love with it. They're in love with the savings, as Scott said, and they will do it because that's what they do. They are very good at becoming more efficient. And of course, people are hardly their concern. That's always been my impression.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah. And to be fair, I think that's what they should do. They should use technology to become more efficient and reinvest the capital in higher growth areas. The thing that struck me, just talking about the difference between new media, meta and old media, the New York Times, there's clear AI financial fraud. Trying to misrepresent people and scam people doesn't get taken down. Do you know how many times that reporter from the New York Times doing the story on you called me to fact check?

[Kara Swisher]

53, right? Yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, my God, where did you get that? You told us this number. Where'd you get it? And I'd have to walk them through the math and go, okay, are you sure? Yeah. And then he'd call me back and say, but define the term profits. And top of, the guy spent three or four days going line by line such that he could look anyone in the face and say, what we wrote here was as close to the truth and as accurate as we could be. And then you have meta putting out AI representations.

[Kara Swisher]

That is a really good point. He called yesterday or two days ago yesterday. He had like, can I call these 19 people to check something that didn't even make it in the story. Some of them, you know, they got caught later. You're right. That is a Scott. Once again, again, you are insightful and.

[Scott Galloway]

You'Re just feeling affectionate because I let you use my climbing wall.

[Kara Swisher]

I love your climbing wall.

[Scott Galloway]

Whose idea was that? Take a picture of me on the climbing wall.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, I look good on the climbing wall. Be admitted. It was a good idea. It was amazing.

[Scott Galloway]

You look like Irve Vilachez, like summiting Everest for a fundraiser.

[Kara Swisher]

I thought it was in your studio. Anyway, we're moving on.

[Scott Galloway]

Tyrion Lannister going up a man.

[Kara Swisher]

And who was the hero of that series?

[Scott Galloway]

He's the protagonist. Although I did like Jamie. I did like Jamie. He loved his sister, but he also loved Brianna Tarth. He evolved from a horrible man to a good man. Very complicated, very complex.

[Kara Swisher]

But the short guy was the hero of that entire thing. Anyway, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, Novo Nordisk pushes out its CEO. This is a topic I'm eager to talk to you about.

[Scott Galloway]

I so should have married a wildling Avoiding your unfinished home projects because you're not sure where to start. Thumbtack knows homes so you don't have to don't know the difference between matte, paint, finish and satin or what that clunking sound from your dryer is. With Thumbtack, you don't have to be a home pro, you just have to hire one. You can hire top rated pros, see price estimates and read reviews all on the app App Download Today Vox Creative.

[Kara Swisher]

This is Advertiser content from Adobe. As the head of marketing for a big box retailer, I track a lot of moving parts. In addition to our online presence, we have hundreds of locations in dozens of countries. We're about to launch a full refresh of our brand. The new look and feel is a lot bolder and brighter. With all of the changes, our teams still need to create content fast and follow the new brand guidelines. That's why I chose Adobe Express. For members of the marketing team like me, this brand refresh means we have to work together to create a ton of content for different channels. We need to be consistent, but also fast and flexible. Adobe Express has us covered. Generative AI that's safe for business lets us create new content in seconds. Brand kits let us centralize our design assets so we can always access or share the latest and greatest. Collaborating with my team members has never been easier.

[Scott Galloway]

And you know what?

[Kara Swisher]

We're having more fun too. Adobe Express the quick and easy app to create on brand content. Learn [e-mail] Express Business.

[Scott Galloway]

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[Kara Swisher]

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[Scott Galloway]

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[Kara Swisher]

See Sales Associate for details. Offer valid 515 through 528Scott we're back. Ozempic maker Novo Nordisk has pushed out its CEO as it loses ground in the anti obesity drug market. Lars Jorgensen, who has run the company for eight years will step down following the stock price dives and impatience from the nonprofit that controls the company. In recent years, the company has struggled with supply shortages in the production of Wegovy and the steep competition from Eli Lilly's Manjaro and Zepbound, to say nothing of the knockoffs that are happening, which they're trying to rein in. But they're not being as successful. They're trying. Novo Nordisk shares have fallen over 50% since 2024 and had a huge upsurge when this became popular. And while on the topic, Weight Watchers filed for bankruptcy, which was another prediction win for you. Scott, by the way, talk about what's happening here, because we had talked about these industries going to the moon. It's sort of like Nvidia going to the moon because of people interested in it. But it turns out even if you have a successful thing, you have to keep in competence once the competition jumps. Same thing. Ctest see all these things.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, but this was Asphalt de Motor and basically said that Novo Nordisk is a good company, but it's not an exceptionally innovative company. And they kind of slipped and fell on a diabetes drug that also had use across GLP1 obesity. But it wasn't kind of this great innovation and they wrote it up. And your job, when you're blessed with that sort of extraordinary luck and additional capital, is to create moats. And that either through distribution or branding or a preference at the Dr. Level. And then in the US, I forget what it's called, a bunch of drugs were given clearance sort of off label because of the shortages. And I imagine the board has just said, look, you had a moment to really take advantage of what is probably a once in a career lifetime moment and create some barriers or brand equity or lock up distribution to maintain. And my guess is their margins are just getting hammered by all of these competitors. I honestly, quite frankly, I think his loss is probably the world's gain, meaning that there's competition and they're not able to sustain their kind of use. To his margins, I think one of the biggest unlocks for healthcare would be if GLP1 drugs went down to 10 bucks a month instead of a thousand a month. Because this is, if you look at, you know, if you look at the Delta, between $6,500 a year per capita health spend and 13,000. A lot of it is insurance, a lot of it is complexity of billing, and a lot of it is obesity. And so I'd love to see. I was happy to see this, quite frankly, because I don't want to see if Novo Nordisk had gone, it's been cut in half. But if it had quadrupled in the last year, that just would have meant probably additional penetration, but also that they were able to figure out ways to monopolize a market where they were charging people $1,000 a month as.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, so what about the Weight Watchers one? This is a prediction you made. Obviously they were trying to get into this market they have with a CEO. I've interviewed her. They were trying to shift. They've been trying to. They keep shift. I have had so many interviews with so many CEOs of Weight Watchers and the shifting has been really hard. And I think at heart is their business model doesn't work anymore in the new environment. But they tried to go to these drugs and they tried this and they tried that. They tried to call ww, they tried to do a different thing all the time. Why did you predict that and what do you think of what's happened at.

[Scott Galloway]

The end of 23? And I heard from all of these companies, I said, you do not want to be an investor in alcohol stocks, stocks in the food industrial complex around sugary shitty food, or in weight loss that doesn't involve GLP1. And I had logos, including the logos of Weight Watchers. And I'm like, I don't. I. I typically make stock bets going long. And In November of 23 I made a huge. My big recommendation was to go short all these companies. My technology of the year 2024 wasn't AI. I said that in 23, it was GLP1. I think it's more revolutionary than AI, quite frankly. And while everyone's focused on AI, they're not looking at what. What America's economy is run on is addiction. And this is the biggest thing. This is scaffolding on our primitive instincts that haven't been updated to industrial production. And Weight Watchers was just quite frankly shitty technology, you know, that just shouldn't be in business. I love this. This is capitalism at work.

[Kara Swisher]

So what do you, what do you. Where is this going to go? This is something you've talked, you talked about this very early. Where do you imagine these bit is just more competition? Just the way EVs are doing that and lots of people are at the same time. EV is still a very rocky business and the uptake is still not there for consumers. It's growing, but not in the way people thought it would.

[Scott Galloway]

This has such extraordinary potential.

[Kara Swisher]

Who's the winner here?

[Scott Galloway]

Well, so this is what I'M hoping. I'm hoping there's a lot of companies that make billions, but I'm hoping there aren't that many that make hundreds of billions. Because one of the biggest detriments to society is that there aren't more industries like the airline industry or jet manufacturing or PCs where no small number of companies are able to develop monopoly power through regulatory capture. And the cost to get from Paris to New York is only $400, which is an incredible unlock for the economy and for consumers and I think an incredible unlock for the health of the world and ultimately lower taxation because we end up paying for obesity in the form of Medicare, Medicaid or depression. Do you realize that people who are good looking on average make 8% more per year in compensation?

[Kara Swisher]

Yes, I do.

[Scott Galloway]

And you get nine. Right. Especially if they can climb, as you.

[Kara Swisher]

Read in the New York Times, especially.

[Scott Galloway]

If they can climb that she scales her empire even bigger. And you know what? Overweight people, the industrial food complex decided it would be politically correct to tell people they're not finding diabetes, they're finding their truth that it's okay to be obese. Do you need empathy for them? Yeah. But also recognize they're more likely to be depressed and get laid off and have trouble finding a mate. And so I would love to see. You want to talk about an unlock? Get people the money such that they can work out. Get people the money such that they can eat good food. And if they start spilling over from being overweight to obesity, immediately get them affordable GLP1 drugs. In 2023, the neighborhood with the greatest concentration of GLP1 use use was also the neighborhood that's the thinnest in the nation. And that's the Upper east side kind of ladies of lunch looking to lose the last 10. Now good news is the latest data shows that the state of Kentucky leads the nation in GLP1 use now. But if you shove GLP1 drugs into red states and rural areas where people because they don't have enough money, have.

[Kara Swisher]

To calories, they start calling themselves they them then. But go ahead. What would happen?

[Scott Galloway]

Well, now it's, it would be a huge unlock. So this is, I just hope, I really hope that we see a world where GLP1 drugs where there's just massive bloody, ugly, full body contact competition that brings the cost of these things way, way down.

[Kara Swisher]

That would be great. Good point. All right, Scott, one more quick rake. We'll be back for wins and fails hosting season's. Here are your windows guest ready. Early Access to Blinds.com's Memorial Day mega sale is on now. Blinds.com invented a better way to shop for window treatments. Completely online with upfront pricing, no showroom markups, no salespeople in your home. Choose from classic shutters to outdoor shades and more. All backed by our 100% satisfaction guarantee shop blinds.com's Memorial Day mega Sale. Early access now save up to 40% site wide plus a free measure blinds.com, rules and restrictions may apply. Donald Trump's been back in office long.

[Scott Galloway]

Enough to shock or surprise just about anyone who voted for him at this point, be it the signals scandal or the tariff turnarounds. The Jeanine Pirro of it all. The way he talks about Ozempic and.

[Kara Swisher]

He takes the fat. The fat chop.

[Scott Galloway]

So rude.

[Kara Swisher]

I'm in London and I just paid for this damn fat drug I take. I said it's not working on today.

[Scott Galloway]

Explained. We're asking if any of his voters are experiencing voters remorse, especially those ones who are newer to his winning coalition. Younger voters, black voters, Latin voters. We're heading to Philadelphia, Pennsylvania to ask them if regrets do they have a few. And just by way of spoiler to get this out of the way, the answer is yes, they do.

[Kara Swisher]

And he takes the fat. The fat shot drug.

[Scott Galloway]

How much money does it actually cost to do a home renovation? This week on Net Worth and Chill, I'm joined by Bachelorette contestant turned home renovation expert Tyler Cameron. From having just $200 in his bank account to getting a TV show on Amazon prime, this episode is packed with practical advice. Whether you're a homeowner or just hoping to be one someday.

[Kara Swisher]

Two Two ways to take this. First One is if you're going to renovate your home, why are you doing it? Are you doing it to make money? If so, then I'd focus on your kitchen.

[Scott Galloway]

I'd focus on your bathrooms. Plus get the inside scoop on which projects are worth diying and which are better left to the pros. Listen wherever you get your podcasts or watch on YouTube.com YourRichBFF.

[Kara Swisher]

Okay, Scott, let's do wins and fails. I shall start today. Unless you want to. Would you want to?

[Scott Galloway]

No, go ahead.

[Kara Swisher]

All right, so the fail is so obviously Amazon announcing that it will work with Humane, the AI company launched by Mohammed bin Salman to build an AI zone in Saudi Arabia. For people that know a lot of the Arab states are trying very hard to become the data center. There's all kinds of privacy issues, et cetera, but they're trying really hard to do that the only issue with something like Amazon is that in 2018, Jamal Khashoggi, a writer for the Bezos own Washington Post, was killed and dismembered with the approval of the Saudi crown prince. I just like this guy doesn't have. He was just appearing at his funeral saying how terrible it was, and then two years later or whatever, hey, no problem. And it's fine for other people. I guess they're all gonna show up there for this guy. But it just was particularly vexing if you're a Washington Post person. And I know you don't feel bad for the Washington Post people, but dismemb and vivisecting a columnist is not something you should do business with. I would say President Trump attacking Taylor Swift, Bruce Springsteen, and now apparently Beyonce, Oprah. He wants to sue them all and investigate them for singing for Kamala Harris is stupid, but I don't really care. It's just ridiculousness. And for my win, well, obviously it's gonna be Tom Cruise for this week, for this movie, for Final Reckoning, I'm gonna go by myself. I'll probably see it multiple times. I don't care what you think of me, but that is what I am. I'm so excited about it's a win that it's here and that Kara can finally be happy because I've been waiting for it for a while. I love Mission Impossibles. I love them, love them, love them. So that's it.

[Scott Galloway]

Nice. So my win is experts. And specifically, I'm obsessed with this woman. I hate to admit I'm getting so much reward out of Instagram reels and. And TikTok. And I found this wonderful doctor who has a PhD in nutrition named. And I apologize if I got her name wrong. Dr. Jessica Knurick, I think is how you say her name. And I was one of these people that really fell into this notion that kind of the government had always chosen the least expensive option and was spraying our crops with just terrible pesticides and that the food supply had been infected in America. And then I fell further into the trap because food does rot much more quickly here in the uk Thought, okay, that means they're not being sprayed with pesticides. And then into that void slipped a lot of quacks pushing supplements, saying, okay, you can find this chemical that they're spraying on this stuff at Home Depot, and that's why you should buy my supplement. Or this basic thing. You can't trust exports. You can't trust the cdc, you can't trust the nih. And they were using this as a vehicle to create distrust amongst institutions and also for them, that's quote, unquote, life hacker wellness experts to sell their shit despite the fact they have absolutely no credentials. And this woman has basically, she is so good and science based and basically debunks all of this bullshit. And she acknowledges where they have some valid points and where they don't. And I just think she's fantastic.

[Kara Swisher]

Cool, I'd love to watch her.

[Scott Galloway]

That's great. And she talks about, she goes into public policies that actually work. Expert led campaigns at the CDC and the World Health Organization are actually, you know, they're responsible for multiple public health victories. The World Health organization reports an 8% decrease in tobacco usage globally since 2000. The CDC's push for measles vaccinations has presented 57 million deaths worldwide since just 2000. And you know her view, I'm so in line with her. If politicians want to create policy that is more effective and more trusted by the American public, they should step aside and let scientists and health professionals 100 lead charge. And I love, she has a constant theme which I have parroted and that is if these folks were really serious about health, they would address income inequality. That's correct. And so anyways, I'm fascinated and I just love, I love when someone is making experts cool again because she's an expert and she's so good and so facts based and so reasoned. I'm going to try and get her, actually, I'm going to try and get her on the pod and then what is my loss here? Kara. Oh, thanks, RFK Jr. Vaccine misinformation is back in full throttle. Clips of Trump's pick for surgeon general, Casey Means discussing the link between autism and vaccines have surfaced. In addition, her claims of leaving medical residency because of disillusionment with the medical system. Again, that you can't trust the deep state. Well, someone did some research and found out that's total bullshit. She left because she couldn't handle the stress. She just couldn't. And by the way, I've dated someone who was in her residency and I saw how kind of out of control. I do think it's too stressful.

[Kara Swisher]

Jeff Swisher.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, it's sort of, there's a certain amount of what I call hazing involved. She used to have to do 36 hour straight shifts. And I'm like, on your 35th hour, you're probably not giving very good medical care, but there's a certain abused children's syndrome. But that's a different talk show, but our old surgeon General Vivek Murthy is exactly who you would want. Talking about loneliness, talking about the impact and isolation of young men, really thinking thoughtfully about health issues. And here we have a vaccine denier who claims she left the medical profession because of quote unquote, the deep state and she became disillusioned. No, own up. Stand on your own two feet. You couldn't hack it. And this is who we have. An anti vaxx vaccine. Anti vaccine conspiracy theorist who couldn't hack her residency and is now jumped on this anti vaccine train which will create tremendous an increase in death, disease and disability vaccinations according to the World Health Organization. Who of course people don't want to listen to because they actually do science. It's estimated that essential vaccines have saved at least 154 million lives. Lives. During the same period, vaccination has reduced infant deaths by, get this, 40%. Before any vaccine is introduced in a country, the vaccine developed in a laboratory undergoes rigorous and stringent testing through multiple phases of clinical trials. Health authorities carefully evaluate the results of these trials to help ensure that the vaccine meets the highest safety and efficacy standards before being considered suitable for use. RFK Jr is out there lying. These things are very safe, like any medicine. Sure there's a risk in terms of side effects. They are so dwarfed by the benefits it's almost like not even worth reporting. And they're usually very minor and in short duration, such as a sore arm or mild fever. And more serious side effects are possible, but extremely, extremely rare.

[Kara Swisher]

It's amazing how they benefit from conspiracy theories. I don't know how they live with themselves in that regard, but they do.

[Scott Galloway]

And just a cherry on the top up of fails. If this tax bill passes, it'll be the largest transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich in a single law in US history. We have decided to borrow $5 trillion from our kids, use it so we can go to Cabo and pay for our new Lexus and then when we die, they have to pay it back. This is just stupid and immoral. This tax bill, the largest, according to several studies, it will be the largest transfer of wealth, wealth from poor to rich, which is Latin, from young to old. Because everyone calls me an ageist and like okay folks, who do you think the rich are? What is the average age of shareholders who own more than two or three million dollars in shares right now? They're usually in their 60s or 70s that this will be the largest transfer of wealth I Uploaded my taxes into the LLMs, my W1s, and said, how will the Trump tax impact me? And I uploaded it to three LLMs and one of them of the LLMs came back with the first two words were good news. So the top 5% are getting a tax cut, the bottom 95 are getting a tax increase. All at the expense of Future generations.

[Kara Swisher]

Yep, 100%. Very good, Scott. Nice. Well done. I like this.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, I'm trying to scale my business.

[Kara Swisher]

You're trying to scale my business. Scale up to further heights. Maybe if you got on that climbing wall every now and then.

[Scott Galloway]

God, I thought there was going to be a picture of you in my bathtub using my salts.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, that could be interesting.

[Scott Galloway]

Putting on my deodorant. I didn't know, like, what's next? Hitting my kids.

[Kara Swisher]

I have to say, your concierge likes me better, I think. I think they like me better. Yeah. Because we bring liveliness to it. We find we're fun.

[Scott Galloway]

Who likes you better?

[Kara Swisher]

Your concierge. They like me better.

[Scott Galloway]

The door people? The doorman.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, yeah, Cheesy.

[Scott Galloway]

I give them a lot. They like you, they like me.

[Kara Swisher]

They like you. They like you. Anyway, we want to hear from you. Send us your questions about your business, tech or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com pivot submit a question for the show or call 85551 pivot. Elsewhere in the and Scott universe, this week on on with Kara Swisher, I talked to Barry Diller about his new memoir. Let's listen to a clip. People haven't read this book. People who are. Who read the excerpt of it, but nobody's read the damn thing. And the amazing thing is the only.

[Scott Galloway]

Thing that has been written is my.

[Kara Swisher]

Relationship with a woman, right? From which somehow they extract. He's come out of the closet, right? And to me, I think if I've come out of the closet, it is. It's the most brightly lit room with a glass door. I mean, who.

[Scott Galloway]

It's absurd. Did you enjoy your interview? I know you're a big fan.

[Kara Swisher]

I love him. He's very funny. He's one of the most forthright of the moguls and he is who he is. People have a lot of complaints about Barry Diller, but I gotta tell you, he's absolutely. I am the least interested in the gay part. I knew it. Everyone knew it kind of thing, but I thought this book is fantastic. It's a really gripping story about his family, which was very. There's a lot of incredible dysfunction there, but also his ideas around business and creating media. And I think he's been one of the more entrepreneurial members of that class of the old mogul class. And so I enjoyed it. He's just a gas. He's really a gas. Anyway, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot. Be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back on Friday. Scott Read us out.

[Scott Galloway]

Today's show was produced by Lara Naiman, Zoe Marcus, Taylor Griffin and Kevin Oliver. Ernie enters hot engineer this episode. Thanks also to Drew Burrows, Ms. Vera and Dan Shalon. Nishak Kurwa is Vox Media's executive producer of podcast. Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the [e-mail] pod we'll be back later this week for another breakdown of the all things tech and business you know. We'll be back. Why? Because someone's scaling her empire.