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- [00:01]
Kara Swisher
Support for this show comes from SC Johnson. We've all been there. Choosing not to wear your new white shoes because there's a 10% chance of rain. Bending awkwardly over the tiny coffee table to enjoy a sip of your latte, not ordering the red sauce. Those feelings of dread are what we call stainxiety. But now you can break free from your stainxiety with Shout's triple Acting spray that has stain fighting ingredients to remove a huge variety of stains so you can live in the moment and clean up later. Just breathe and Shout with Shout Triple Acting Spray. Learn more@shoutitout.com. Support for this show comes from MongoDB. You're a developer who wants to innovate. Instead you're stuck fixing bottlenecks and fighting legacy code. MongoDB can help. It's a flexible, unified platform that's built for developers by developers. MongoDB is acid compliant enterprise ready with the capabilities you need to sh AI apps fast. That's why so many of the Fortune 500 trust MongoDB with their most critical workloads. Ready to think outside rows and columns. Start building@mongodb.com build.
- [01:17]
Scott Galloway
Support for the show comes from Ferragamo. The holidays can be a good time to step back and take stock. And it's definitely a good time to get yourself or someone you love a gift that you can take with you into the new year at Ferragamo Holiday 2025 invites us into a new kind of nostalgia, where the memories we today become the ones we'll replay for years to come. Whether it's a sculpted leather hug handbag or an iconic Vera shoe, each piece is made to be enjoyed season after season. Ferragamo holiday 2025 where memories from tomorrow come alive today. Visit Ferragamo.com or your nearest boutique.
- [01:57]
Kara Swisher
Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher.
- [02:02]
Scott Galloway
And I'm Scott Galloway.
- [02:03]
Kara Swisher
How you doing, Scott?
- [02:05]
Scott Galloway
I'm doing great, thanks.
- [02:05]
Kara Swisher
Weird weekend of shootings and killings and pretty horrible stuff. We usually banter here, but I think we should just get right to it, don't you think?
- [02:15]
Scott Galloway
Yeah, I think so.
- [02:16]
Kara Swisher
Yes. We want to briefly acknowledge the horrific events of gun violence over the weekend. On Saturday, two people were killed and nine were injured at a shooting at Brown University. And on Sunday, at least 15 people were killed in a shooting at a Hanukkah celebration in Bondi beach in Australia. At the time of the taping, authorities were looking for the Brown shooter, the Bondi beach shooters have been identified as a father and son. A bystander whose refugee parents had just arrived from Syria wrestled a gun from one of the alleged attackers during the Bondi beach shooting. As if that violence weren't enough, director and actor Rob Reiner and his wife Michelle were found dead in their LA home on Sunday, supposedly by apparently, according to lots of reports, their son, their youngest son is being held in this, what it looks like a murder. Donald Trump, of course, had to weigh in on this tragedy, posting on Truth Social. And a while ago, Rob Reiner, a tortured and struggling, but once very talented movie director and comedy star, has passed away together with his wife Michelle, reportedly due to the anger he caused others through his massive, unyielding, incurable afflictions with a mind crippling disease known as Trump derangement Syndrome. I can't believe he wrote this, but once again, of course I can. So he said. The raging obsession have driven people crazy and obvious. His paranoia is reaching new heights as the Trump administration surpassed all goals and expectations with greatness. And then he said they should rest in peace. He's a terrible, terrible son of a bitch.
- [03:44]
Scott Galloway
Yeah, but I just can't wait for the riot to be as inflamed by the notion that anyone was dancing on Charlie Kirk's grave. But this will like, you know, this will just be Donald being Donald, right?
- [03:54]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, exactly. I mean, just. What a heinous piece of shit. Let's start with the shootings just for personally. Amanda went to Brown and knows the area very well. It's very open campus, she was telling me. And you know, it's sort of such a, you know, very peaceful. I've been there a number of times with her in the area where it was taking place. Nobody knows why this particular. Well, because people have guns. But why? Reasons reasoning behind. The one in Bondi beach was horrific. Except for that one bystander who, who was just there. The video of it was astonishing that they. This guy had a long gun and this guy, he was a big guy who went after another big guy and the father ended up dying. The son, I believe, is still living again. These people were peaceably getting on a holiday, which was the first night of Hanukkah, which we celebrated last night. I don't know what to say, Scott. Just the whole thing is just violence.
- [04:53]
Scott Galloway
Yeah. It's the things that strike me about Brown is that just as we overprotect our kids offline and underprotect them online, I think campuses unfortunately have become. They're supposed to be the same. Some of the safest places in the world physically, and some of the most dangerous places intellectually. And unfortunately, we flipped the script. We've decided that words are violence and I think created sort of these very fragile. A very fragile youth. Not all, but too many. And at the same time, guns on campus. And we don't know. They don't know who the shooter is. But generally speaking, what will happen is they will attempt to politicize it. The left and the right, unfortunately. And chances are, we don't know who it is. Chances are there's three dimensions to this type of violence. It's usually a young man who's not connecting to work, family or relationships, or someone who went online and got radicalized and then had access to guns. And then to use that as a bridge to Australia, this is the first mass shooting they've had in 27 years. They have one every 27 years. We have one every 27 hours. And that's not a lie. We have 1.2 mass shootings a day. So. And then, you know, I can't help but look, I'm obviously think a lot about Israel and the Jewish population. There are 2.7 billion Christians, 2.1 billion Muslims, 1.4 billion Indians, 1.3 billion Chinese, 355 million Americans. But the hate towards 15 million Jews, it was 15 million in 1939. By 1945, Hitler had taken it down to 9 million. It's taken 80 years to get back to 15 million. But because of the hatred focused on these 15 million, 2% of the world's population, Paris is canceling their New Year's events. I mean, this is impacting everyone. And the only silver lining here is who you brought up. Ahmed Al Ahmad, I think his name is. I pause if I'm getting that wrong.
- [07:09]
Kara Swisher
He was a fruit vendor.
- [07:10]
Scott Galloway
Yeah. He owns a fruit store, two sons. And I just think it was so wonderful on so many dimensions that it was a Muslim, because what I find, you know, a lot of debates recently, men, people always want to go to this reductive. Well, it's men against women or it's Muslims against Jews. No, it's illiberal, primitive thought versus liberal, enlightened thought. And that's who the battle is between. But I find, and I. And also to personalize this, because I never missed an opportunity to talk about myself. I was very upset about what had happened in Australia, and I thought about putting a Star of David in my window and I went out to try and find some sort of neon light. Or an Israeli flag. And someone I live with said, are you fucking crazy? Are you fucking crazy? That was their view. We live in London. We live on a busy street. And this person is like, we have kids in our house. You're going to put a symbol of Judaism or Israel in our window. And what I would ask everybody is. And today, and this is going to be somewhat of an inflammatory statement. People are down with Judaism and Jewishness today because people like to feel sorry for Jews. But it'll soon return to what I would call a series of microenablements around what is going on here. And what I would ask is, is there any other group in the world that consists of 15 million or 0.2% of the population that cannot celebrate their holidays in peace and without fear right now? That is what it means to be Jewish right now.
- [08:46]
Kara Swisher
Well, I think you're talking about illiberalism. I think a lot of people have been. We don't know what's happening in brown, by the way. We still don't understand what's going.
- [08:56]
Scott Galloway
They don't have a suspect.
- [08:57]
Kara Swisher
They don't have a suspect. But most, as you said, most of these killings are about illiberalism and about not letting people be who they are. Right. Whoever they happen to be. And I think it's really. It's sort of like the gun. I mean, Australian gun violence. My nephew lives near Bondi beach, actually right near it. And, you know, if you've ever been there, and I have been there, and I think you have, too, it's a beautiful place. It has such a nice feel to it. And it's, I would say, the more liberal part of Sidney. Right. I would. You know, just kind of. Everyone is just letting people be who they are, essentially. And for these two, you know, being a father and son is even worse in a lot of ways, because this father obviously radicalized his child. And it's just like. It's sickening to me that they. That anyone cannot gather. Right. That. And I agree with you. I mean, the rise in antisemitism is just so disturbing and so indicative of the rise of this kind of eas hatred kind of thing. And I think, again, you don't want to link these things, all of them together. But what the president wrote about Rob Reiner, who just was slashed to death, allegedly, by his son, who clearly had, if you follow it even slightly, I saw that movie many years ago called Being Charlie, which the son wrote and the father directed, obviously, to help his son get along. It was about his addiction and really isolation, right? It's just like this is the answer. The violent. The violent answer. And so, you know, you can't. There's. Sometimes there's nothing you can do about. There's. There's something you do about drug addiction, but drug addiction, and it seems like schizophrenia of some sort. But to take, like the. The. The ease at which people accept all these things, especially around antisemitic behavior, is really. It's. It's. I think it. We're at this inflection point. We either go one way or the other. I don't know. We have. We. We do have a. Men are in our window. My wife is Jewish. My kids. My young kids are Jewish. And we also have a snowman and we have a Christmas tree. And I didn't even think about that, Scott. We just put it in the window. And I wouldn't think of taking it down. But you made me think. Of course. But it's so disheartening, especially as we move into the holiday season. And again, last night was the first night of Hanukkah, and my kids are so excited about Hanukkah and everything around it. It's just. It's like it's. Stomach churning, actually.
- [11:32]
Scott Galloway
I do think there's a difference between the Brown and Australian tragedies and what happened to the Reiners. I think my understanding of the Reiners is that it was a. A young man who's really struggling. And it's tragic, but, you know, and it represents drug. It's a warranted discussion about drug addiction. But what I find so disturbing, disheartening, is that all bigotry is hate. But there are different types of hate. And most bigotry comes in the form of, I don't like these people. I don't like the way they live their lives. I don't like their food. I don't like their norms and their customs. And I'm going to discriminate against them. I'm going to sequester them from jobs. I don't want them in my neighborhood. I don't want them to have the same rights as me. The discrimination or the bigotry against Jews I find especially dangerous because it's not, I don't like your food or I don't like the way, you know, I don't like your customs. It's that I think you have come together to form a conspiracy that is purposely trying to oppress me and that I need to take offensive action. Not sequester you from opportunities, but legitimize and Create cloud cover for offensive violence against you no matter where you are. And also folks on campus, campus, congratulations. When you're chanting globalize the intifada, all right, that's what's happened here. The intifada has been globalized.
- [13:01]
Kara Swisher
I don't think you can blame those students for these people.
- [13:04]
Scott Galloway
I think it's all connected. I think that when people legitimize this type of hate speech and it becomes normalized, I think it creates cloud cover for this type of behavior.
- [13:15]
Kara Swisher
Perhaps. I feel like anti Semitism has been around for centuries.
- [13:19]
Scott Galloway
Well, okay. And so is enablement of it, right?
- [13:21]
Kara Swisher
Well, yeah, people shouldn't be. But you know, this is the problem with all these things is talking the way like where does it. What do you do about all this hate speech? Around, everywhere around everything. Like it's so. It's so steeped into our world now and so available and again, you know, it's. No, it's really interesting. You know, Australia just, you know, quashed social media for kids under 16. To me, that's what globalizes this. I think these sentiments have been around since the beginning of time for some reason and it creates this worldwide ability to just hate across. Anyway, these are all tragedies. I don't mean they're linked together in any way, but in many ways it's sort of this acceptance of violence against people and especially in this country. And for Australia to have, as you said, a shooting is really rare. Right. And so then you worry about that country in that. The thing is, guess what, like New Zealand, like other where they had a terrible shooting which was I think against a mosque in that case, they're going to do something about it and shut it down. They're going to shut down guns. They will actually take action as a country while we do not. Which is really. That's my guess. Correct. Don't you think probably there'll be some.
- [14:40]
Scott Galloway
They. Well, I mean they, they did.
- [14:43]
Kara Swisher
They had.
- [14:43]
Scott Galloway
So for example, it might not have been 15 people, it might have been 150 had they not banned assault rifles.
- [14:49]
Kara Swisher
Right.
- [14:50]
Scott Galloway
If that father son team had had AR15s and not single bolt action and shotguns, it might have been 150 people.
- [14:58]
Kara Swisher
Right? Exactly.
- [15:00]
Scott Galloway
And the fact that it happens every. This will rattle Australia to its core.
- [15:06]
Kara Swisher
And they'll do something about it.
- [15:09]
Scott Galloway
We're going to talk about Brown until tomorrow. And there'll be another one. Brown will get more attention because it's those, you know, because it's an ivy. So it's more kind of sensational. Or it'll get more media attention because quite frankly, a lot of media went to Brown. But there will be a mass shooting tomorrow in America and next day.
- [15:32]
Kara Swisher
And the next day.
- [15:33]
Scott Galloway
It's like that Onion headline, America claims that the problem can't be solved in the only nation. This problem exists and this notion that we live in a democracy, we don't. We live, we live in a country with a passive majority that is weaponized by a well funded and organized special interest groups. And probably number four or five now, but still very popular is the NRA. And 90% of Americans now believe in some sort of safe and sane gun regulation.
- [16:01]
Kara Swisher
They do.
- [16:03]
Scott Galloway
And we can't get it through.
- [16:04]
Kara Swisher
It's repulsive. It's repulsive. But our condolences go out to the people in Bondi beach and at Brown and obviously the Reiner family.
- [16:13]
Scott Galloway
I'm going to be in Bondi in two weeks.
- [16:16]
Kara Swisher
Bondi, two weeks. Out you are. It's beautiful. It's a beautiful place. This tragedy at a beautiful place. Anyway, we should move on onto the news. But first, Sam Altman. This is such a weird trust. Sorry, let me just switch to code red. OpenAI.
- [16:33]
Scott Galloway
It's a weird altitude change.
- [16:34]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, yeah. Which he implemented to improve ChatGPT against competition after the launch of its GPT 5.2 model. He's going to, he's going to exit Code Red. I don't believe Code Red, by the way. Speaking of which, Rob Reiner. Let me just say maybe just one more thing about Rob Reiner. What an incredible artist this guy left behind. Besides being on all in the Family, he did A Few Good Men. He did Stand By Me. He did the Princess Bride. He did When Harry Met Sally. It goes on and on and on. And then personally, his impact, the reason we have gay marriage, it started in California. Rob Reiner was one of the major people around it. Same thing with preschool for kids. Just I don't care how much the Trump people hate this guy or hated this guy. What an incredibly effective progressive he was. And also a beautiful filmmaker. Some of my favorite films. And Code Red. Code Red is an important part of A Few Good Men. Did you call the Code Red also?
- [17:30]
Scott Galloway
You and I were on a call with Rob Reiner and his wife a couple weeks ago and they seemed very civic minded.
- [17:37]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, yeah, he was. They were trying to figure out something to do to boycotts around immigration. He was focused in on immigrants being abused by the Trump administration. He was, you know, he just a classic, the guy. He played on all in the Family Mike Stivitz, he was that guy, right? He was. It was sort of. That was him in many ways. Anyway, speaking of Code Red, which. That is one of my favorite movies of all time. I love every bit about it, but the direction is so critical for being so good. It's with Tom Cruise, Demi Moore and Jack Nicholson, obviously.
- [18:12]
Scott Galloway
Oh, he did the sure thing. That was him.
- [18:14]
Kara Swisher
Yeah. He's an astonishing artist and also an actor.
- [18:17]
Scott Galloway
Oh, my God. He did Misery. That's an amazing film. Wow.
- [18:22]
Kara Swisher
He had a run from in the 80s to the 90s that was like one frigging hit after the next. It's crazy. And important. Movies that last the test of. Of that, you know, that lasts the test of time. Like, that's what it is. It's like, I go back to all those movies, and they were so expertly directed.
- [18:38]
Scott Galloway
The American President. Remember that one? A single. Michael Douglas as president. This is Spinal Tap.
- [18:44]
Kara Swisher
Oh, Spinal Tap. Oh, how could I leave that out? Plus, he just released the two, the second one recently, and just an astonishing talent. My favorite was. He was in. He had a lot of roles over the years in various things, mostly comedies, but he was in the Wolf of Wall street as the accountant.
- [19:02]
Scott Galloway
Yeah.
- [19:03]
Kara Swisher
And my favorite line.
- [19:04]
Scott Galloway
Didn't he play his father?
- [19:05]
Kara Swisher
I'm not sure he was doing the accounting. And he goes. I'm not sure he was his father, but he goes, prostitutes take credit cards. And then the line was, yeah, the expensive ones. It was the way he said prostitutes. Like, is he screaming? And then he goes, prostitutes take credit cards. And it was just fantastic, man. Anyway. Okay, we'll move on to code red at OpenAI. That's the reference he's using there. Sam Alton says he expects OpenAI to exit code red, which he implemented to improve ChatGPT against competition after the launch of its GPT 5.2 model. He implemented it because of all the competition, especially from Google's Gemini. Altman said the release of the Gemini 3 models had less of an impact on the company than originally feared. We'll see. In other OpenAI news, the company will end a compensation policy that required employees to work at the company for at least six months before their equity vests. So what's happening here? I don't know.
- [20:01]
Scott Galloway
I think they're panicking.
- [20:02]
Kara Swisher
Panicking.
- [20:02]
Scott Galloway
I think they heard Kara Swisher keep comparing them to Netscape.
- [20:06]
Kara Swisher
Oh, yeah. I should say.
- [20:07]
Scott Galloway
And I think that analogy is becoming more and more apt by the day. And it's an incredible company. The question is, can they maintain momentum from 500 billion. And the thing that struck me, Kara, was I saw that SpaceX leaked a rumor that they're thinking about going public.
- [20:24]
Kara Swisher
Yeah. And then pretended they didn't. Yeah.
- [20:26]
Scott Galloway
And that they're, they threw a number out there who knows how real it is. Trillion and a half dollar pricing. Right now they say they're raising money or selling shares at about 800 billion. OpenAI is at 500 billion. Now they're both right now about the same revenue level, except SpaceX is growing much, much slower. SpaceX went from 13 billion last year. They're projected to do 15 this year. It's not growing that fast.
- [20:51]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, well, there's only so much space.
- [20:53]
Scott Galloway
Right, but that's right, but the difference is in terms of moats and defensibility and sustainability. And that is the amazing thing about a digital business is it can scale incredibly fast. The downside is that it can be disrupted almost as fast. And that is the reason why SpaceX at a lower growth rate in a similar revenue is trading at 2 to 3 or 60 to 200% more than a company that's growing much faster. OpenAI is because it is very unlikely in two years someone else is going to have 90% of space launch market share the ability. And that's why Amazon, I think's value is so enduring. We're also focused on digital, but the reality is if you can put In Place warehouses, 747s, you know, trucking, space launch vehicles, atoms are more defensible than bits.
- [21:53]
Kara Swisher
Ah, interesting observation. I like that.
- [21:56]
Scott Galloway
Well, it's harder to do, it's harder to scale up, but it would make sense. It's more defensible. It just struck me that SpaceX is trading it more. It's growing much slower, same revenue, and is much more valuable than OpenAI because people realize if you were to say, okay, one of these two firms is going to decline by 80% share in the next 24 months. OpenAI or SpaceX, who would you think that happened?
- [22:19]
Kara Swisher
OpenAI? Yeah, everybody.
- [22:20]
Scott Galloway
Hundred.
- [22:21]
Kara Swisher
That said, I have to say I still use ChatGPT more. Right. And Gemini just is imposed upon me by Google because I use Google. Right. I don't go to.
- [22:29]
Scott Galloway
Did you love Explorer? Did you love Microsoft Explorer? Netscape was a better browser.
- [22:34]
Kara Swisher
I agree, but. Well, right now I'm using it because of this, because Riverside, but I usually use Safari. But Google, one of the things that's related. Speaking of defensible businesses, Google has removed videos with Disney characters after being hit with a cease and desist letter from the company. Saying AI infringes on its copyrighted content on a massive scale. The complaint focuses on unauthorized AI generated videos and images of Disney characters, particularly on YouTube. The move comes shortly after Disney struck a deal with OpenAI. It picked its winner. Right. As we discussed last week, I went and called a lot of people after this because a lot of people had sort of mixed feelings on Disney doing this. Like they're giving in, essentially. Seems to me, I think they got learned a lot from social media and everything else that to stay out of it was a mistake early on and so they wanted to pick one and then fight the others. And so I don't necessarily. Everyone's like, oh, you're giving away your seed corn, you shouldn't do this. I don't quite know what Disney would do otherwise. Right. I think making an investment, which they did in OpenAI, gives them a stake in the game. Right. They're not going to get to make a similar investment in Google. It gives them an ability to have to have some insight into how this is going and how it works the way eventually all the companies did on YouTube. If you remember Philippe Dauman, that really terrible executive, sued YouTube and it just didn't work out. It just didn't work out the way they did it. But rather, they'd rather find a legal way to have this work out because eventually they're going to have to strike deals with all of them. And I think being both aggressive and non aggressive is probably the right way to go, but I don't feel like Disney had another choice. And then it could say to OpenAI whether OpenAI was able to do this. You know, if someone's doing something hinky with, you know, Princess Jasmine and the Snowman from Frozen, you better get it done, you better get it off kind of thing. So I just feel like they kind of had to do it and it's the best way to learn on this stuff. And using OpenAI, probably they're more cooperative than a Google might be, but, you know, and it's going to hinder all these. Every single company is going to have a deal like this, presumably. I don't know. But all of them will have them with all of them, like they did with YouTube in the end.
- [24:52]
Scott Galloway
I think you're exactly right. I think this is a good move for both of them. And the key here is that there.
- [24:59]
Kara Swisher
Was criticism, there was a lot of criticism.
- [25:01]
Scott Galloway
But right now Disney doesn't have the capital, both human or financial capital to build their own LLM them and they want to Experiment and the proof is in the pudding. And that is I'd love to see the terms of this deal if I were Disney, I'd want to make sure we're going to experiment. But you do not have in any way long term rights, AI rights around these characters. It's a 12 month thing. We'll see how it's working for both of us. But I go back to the same thing and that is the deepest pocketed companies in the world that are creating the most shareholder value are these AI centered companies. You want as many as possible because you want Disney to have the ability in 12 months to go to Gemini or to go to Llama or even to go to one of the Chinese players and say, all right, you've seen what OpenAI can do with our characters. Our two or our three year relationship will be up in six months. Who's got the biggest check for us? And otherwise, if there's only going to be one bidder in AI and the arms race sort of connotes that they all sort of believe there might be one player. You want as many bidders as possible, otherwise you're going to further leak human capital from the creative community, the Los Angeles community, and from Disney shareholders and from consumers to the one player in OpenAI. So I'm for, I hope that a lot of the content creators get together and quite frankly partner like you said, with the number two and just play them off against each other and always make sure that there's a really, really, a really healthy, healthy ecosystem.
- [26:29]
Kara Swisher
They didn't do it at the YouTube. Do you remember when they remember when SNL when on YouTube, you know those movie shorts. It got onto YouTube and YouTube did everything possible to take it down. And I remember YouTube didn't, the company did. I think SNL did NBC. I remember being with NBC executive like let it stay there. What are you talking about? Everyone's talking about it now, right? And they just were like, we have to take it down. They're stealing our things. I'm like, well, make a deal with them. I think the way they handle at the beginning was something somewhat evil. I did when I was running my All Things D conferences. We had Philippe Dalman when He was suing YouTube and also Eric Schmidt on. And I put them back to back with each other on stage and Eric Schmidt, Philippe Dauman wanted to talk to Eric Schmidt and Eric ran into the bathroom. He didn't want to talk to him. Eventually they settled, but it just seemed to me the wrong approach at the time. Even though let me Say I think Google was fast and loose with that content in order to build his business. I think they stole everything.
- [27:27]
Scott Galloway
Google wasn't compensating anybody back then.
- [27:29]
Kara Swisher
No, they weren't. And I think they were stealing.
- [27:31]
Scott Galloway
YouTube's now compensating people.
- [27:32]
Kara Swisher
I think they were stealing but then they, by the time it was too late and they should have done deals with them. But anyway, we'll move on. Okay, Scott, we come back. Oracle has its own code red moment. Support for this show comes from Deleteme. Deleteme makes it easy, quick and safe to remove your personal data online. At a time when surveillance and data breaches are common enough to make everyone vulnerable. DeleteMe does all the hard work of wiping you and your family's personal information from data broker websites. How does that work? You sign up and provide Deleteme with exactly what information you want deleted and their experts take it from there. And it's not a one time thing. DeleteMe will constantly monitor and remove personal information you don't want on the Internet. Throughout the year I've gotten to use Deleteme and I really enjoyed it. I think their dashboard is really easy to read. I've always been surprised every time I go in there and see all of what they found in their sweeps. It's all these people. I'd never heard of putting together all my information. Sometimes inaccurately, sometimes quite accurately. But bringing it together is really disturbing. But it's really important to have control of your data. Wirecutter named Deleteme, no surprise is their top pick for data removal services. It's very easy to use. You can take control of your data and keep your private life private by signing up for Deleteme now at a special discount for our listeners. Get 20% off your Delete Me plan when you go to JoinDeleteMe.com pivot and use the promo code Pivot at checkout. The only way to get 20% off is to go to JoinDeleteMe.com pivot and enter code pivot at checkout. That's JoinDeleteMe.com pivot. CodePivot support for this show comes from Mint Mobile. You don't have to let big wireless and your overpriced phone bill suck the joy out of the holiday this year. Because right now all of Mint Mobile's unlimited plans are 50% off. That's right. You can get three, six or 12 months of unlimited premium wireless for 15 bucks a month. It's their best deal of the year and it makes it really easy for you to give that expensive wireless bill you're currently paying. The Scrooge Treatment All Mint plans come with high speed data, unlimited talk and text on the nation's largest 5G network. You can also bring your current phone number over to Mint with no contracts required. Turn your expensive wireless present into a huge wireless savings future by switching to Mint. Shop Mint unlimited plans@mintmobile.com pivot that's mintmobile.com pivot Limited time offer upfront payment of $45 for three months, $90 for six months, or $180 for 12 months. Plan required $15 a month equivalent taxes and fees extra initial plan term Only greater than 35 gigabytes may slow when the network is busy. Capable device required Availability, speed and coverage varies. See mintmobile.com Support for this show comes from LinkedIn. If you've ever hired for your small business, you know how important it is to find the right person. That's why LinkedIn Jobs is stepping things up with their new AI assistant, so you can feel confident you're finding top talent you can't find anywhere else. The best part is those great candidates are already on LinkedIn. In fact, LinkedIn says employees that hire through LinkedIn are 30% more likely to stick around for at least a year compared to those hired through a leading competitor. That's a big deal where every hire counts. Hiring doesn't have to be complicated. When you have a business to run, you don't have time to spend hours on hiring. You certainly can't just wait around hoping the right person stumbles upon your job. That's why LinkedIn Jobs AI assistant suggests 25 great fit candidates daily so you can invite them to apply and keep things moving. Hire right the first time, Post your job for free@LinkedIn.com pivot and then promote it to use LinkedIn jobs new AI assistant, making it easier and faster to find top candidates. That's LinkedIn.com pivot to post your job for free. Terms and conditions apply. Scott we're back. And I put on my Santa hat with a big ball. Happy Christmas, Scott. Is that what they say? Happy holiday? Can we say Christmas again?
- [31:43]
Scott Galloway
Of course.
- [31:44]
Kara Swisher
Anyway, happy Hanukkah. Happy everything.
- [31:46]
Scott Galloway
Have you seen these videos of. I don't know. It makes me so happy and it's so wrong. Have you seen these videos of of grown men dressing up as Grinch and terrorizing little children?
- [31:57]
Kara Swisher
No, no, no. There was one at the Christmas fair the other day where we used to live. And kids love the Grinch.
- [32:05]
Scott Galloway
Oh no. This is.
- [32:06]
Kara Swisher
Were these trying to terrorize kids?
- [32:08]
Scott Galloway
This is videos of 3 year olds being traumatized for life by a Grinch character breaking into the house and stealing gifts and children and it is so wonderful and it's so wrong.
- [32:19]
Kara Swisher
Oh, no.
- [32:20]
Scott Galloway
He said, I was at a bar and a prostitute walked in and ordered a glass of wine. And the bartender said, what did you ask Santa for Santa for? And she said, $30, just like everyone else.
- [32:33]
Kara Swisher
That sounded funny.
- [32:36]
Scott Galloway
Never mind.
- [32:37]
Kara Swisher
Sorry you got to up your Christmas jokes. Anyway, as I said, Oracle's having a.
- [32:42]
Scott Galloway
He's such an asshole. Santa knows where the naughty girls are and he doesn't tell anyone else.
- [32:46]
Kara Swisher
That's true. Look at Code Red moment. Code red. The company's stock fell 14% last week. Ouch. Down 45% from a September high, which was far too high anyway after the latest earnings showed soaring capex and rising debt tied to its massive AI buildout. Making all kinds of bets. There was also a report claiming several Oracle data centers tied to its $300 billion OpenAI contract have been delayed. Really? Oracle denies the delays, said it remains confident its ability to meet its obligations in future expansion plans. Ooh, Oracle went a little far on this I thought, didn't you? I don't know. It's also related. There's a Paramount factor in this. The hostile bid for Warner Brothers discovery is backed in part by billions from Oracle co founder Larry Ellis. But he isn't guaranteeing it the way Elon had a guarantee his purchase of Twitter. Warner Brothers board is concerned that he didn't do this and plans to contribute equity through a trust. It's kind of in a Geechy way. If he's that rich, he should just put up the money. Paramount is calling concerns about its financing absurd. I mean, obviously he's rich, that's true. But if he's not rich, you should personally guarantee it. If you're Warner Brothers, are you right to be concerned about Big Daddy not giving his personal guarantee? I don't know, Scott, both of these things. I mean, obviously the stock is down rather significantly. So he's not quite as rich, but he's still massively wealthy.
- [34:03]
Scott Galloway
Yeah, I think if it just comes down to money, and it probably will. I think that Ellison probably. I mean, there's a bunch of play here. 1. So first off, the lesson here, and I would tell this to anybody listening, and I was told this at a very young age and I've lived up to this and never sign a personal guarantee. Just never. You don't know what'll Happen. And it's a way how smart people, it's how smart rich people go broke. You don't know. You don't know what can happen. Never. I have never done this. And I would suggest anyone listening to this podcast never sign a personal guarantee. All right.
- [34:42]
Kara Swisher
And just so people know, Elon did this in the Twitter fight, but go ahead.
- [34:45]
Scott Galloway
I think it's, I think it's just let Elon do it. Ellison has more money personally than anyone involved because he's been selling stock and he personally is, is super wealthy, not only in stock, but in cash, but also Netflix is a bit constrained too, because Netflix's debt to EBITDA ratio, they, they have, and they, they only have a certain. They have cash flow. They manage against that $18 billion a year. So I think if it's pure, if these guys go really crazy, let me go this way, Ellison can go crazier. And not only that, Ellison's about to die. He's an old man. So does he really care?
- [35:20]
Kara Swisher
That's not according to him. He has a longevity institute. He's gonna live forever.
- [35:24]
Scott Galloway
Yeah, but Ted Sarandos is around for another 40 years. Yeah, Larry Allison is not. And so quite frankly, I think Larry Allison is more likely to do what a lot of old men do. And that is making a rational move.
- [35:35]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, interesting. That's interesting. But I'm saying the Warner board is using it as a concern. What do you think boardrooms they want?
- [35:44]
Scott Galloway
Of course, when you have a scarce asset, part of the negotiation is the certainty of close and the certainty of financing. So whenever I bought a house, what's really fun to do is show up with an all cash offer. Right. But most people can't do that. Most people that put in contingencies around finding a mortgage. And sometimes, and sometimes, like a really weak offer, someone says, I have contingencies. Not only do I need to find financing, I need to sell the house I'm in now to buy this house. So if he was willing to show up and say, I'm the third wealthiest man in the world and I'm signing a personal guarantee, then disco. Right. So they're going to want you to do as much as possible. But yeah, I don't. Just as a general rule, you never sign a personal guarantee.
- [36:26]
Kara Swisher
But is that a good excuse for the Warner Brothers board to say why hasn't he?
- [36:29]
Scott Galloway
Well, Ted Sarandos isn't signing a personal guarantee.
- [36:32]
Kara Swisher
No, I get it. But the Ellisons are making a big deal of their Trump affiliations, how rich they are. But you know what I mean? Like, everybody has their own little move, essentially. But Ted Sarandos is not buying it. Netflix is. Right. And they've made an offer with stock and cash. That is guaranteed, presumably.
- [36:48]
Scott Galloway
You know what I feel like every minute I'm like, paramount's gonna get it. Netflix is gonna get it.
- [36:53]
Kara Swisher
Paramount's gonna get it. I know. That's what I feel. Yeah. Yeah.
- [36:56]
Scott Galloway
I'm having a tough time handicapping this.
- [36:58]
Kara Swisher
One, and I think Paramount has to get it. Netflix does not have to. It's not a. It's an important thing for it to get, but it's not a must have.
- [37:08]
Scott Galloway
Yeah, but you know what it got me thinking? What, Kara? I actually think in the next 90 days, if not, maybe not 90. I always got the timing wrong. I think Disney's going to be put in play.
- [37:19]
Kara Swisher
Oh, yeah, that's what we talked about.
- [37:21]
Scott Galloway
And the likely buyer there will be Apple. I mean, keep in mind, whoever bulks up here, whether it's Paramount bulking up or Netflix bulking up, up, where does that leave Disney? Where does that leave Apple? Where does that leave YouTube? It leaves them less bulky.
- [37:39]
Kara Swisher
Yes, I brought that up with Disney executives. They're not commenting, but I agree. They're not big enough.
- [37:43]
Scott Galloway
And by the way, Disney stock, that would be the biggest take private in history because Disney's like 200. They'd have to go up to like 300.
- [37:52]
Kara Swisher
But that'll be hard to get through the government, period, and whatever government it happens to be.
- [37:56]
Scott Galloway
But Disney, do you know where their stock is? Their stock's the same place it was 10 years ago.
- [37:59]
Kara Swisher
Yep, I know.
- [38:01]
Scott Galloway
And talk about IP. You want to see people salivate over IP, right?
- [38:05]
Kara Swisher
Right.
- [38:06]
Scott Galloway
I mean, Darth Vader to Moana.
- [38:07]
Kara Swisher
I mean, Moana Live is coming out.
- [38:10]
Scott Galloway
Those parks you want to talk about, we were just talking about.
- [38:12]
Kara Swisher
Great with Zootopia, by the way. It continues to win in many ways.
- [38:16]
Scott Galloway
And you want to talk about a moat around Adams versus Bits. The parks. Jesus Christ. If I said to you. If I said to you, okay, one of these things is down by 50% in three years. It's either Netflix subscribers or park attendance. What would you pick?
- [38:30]
Kara Swisher
Oh, of course, Netflix. Well, I don't know. People love them Netflix. They do love them Netflix. And it also has the Taylor Swift eras documentary on it, so. Oh, no, that's on Disney. That's on Disney. That's on Disney.
- [38:43]
Scott Galloway
I think the parks. I think the parks are literally the crown jewel in the Disney portfolio. I mean, keep in mind, they were buying Land in Florida for the better part of decade under false LLCs to amass millions and millions of acres.
- [38:57]
Kara Swisher
Yes, they're very clever people. But let me go back to the Oracle stock. It's really falling and like this, these commitments they have are massive.
- [39:05]
Scott Galloway
Okay, but. Okay. Meanwhile though, it's flat over the past year. So, okay, it's back to where it was in June. So we always talk of. It's dropped dramatically from a massive spike. And the head fake here was Sam Altman and Larry Ellison and announcing a quote unquote framework for a $300 billion purchase in Compute. I would love to see the terms of that contract. I think that was nothing but a joint press release. It's like when famous people date each other, their publicists are really dating each other. This is. It's like they're not fucking. Their publicists are fucking and thought it would be. I got a great press release to say Chris Hemsworth is d. You know.
- [39:48]
Kara Swisher
I'll tell you, of all the stocks though, if they get hit, Oracle will be the one that gets hit the most.
- [39:52]
Scott Galloway
Oh, it's already been hit pretty. Yeah, it's down. What is it down? 40% on a month?
- [39:56]
Kara Swisher
45, something like that.
- [39:57]
Scott Galloway
But it has a great core business. Anyways, the, the, the. I, I think all of media now is in play. And whoever, whoever ends up owning this, the other guys are severely diminished. If Paramount doesn't get this, they've got to go shopping.
- [40:15]
Kara Swisher
They gotta get sailing.
- [40:16]
Scott Galloway
And then there's. Keep in mind, they can't buy the player we're not talking about. I think Apple has invested enough in Apple TV plus that it can't let it just die.
- [40:24]
Kara Swisher
Right.
- [40:25]
Scott Galloway
And it's a distant fifth now, but it's owned by a company worth three and a half trillion dollars.
- [40:30]
Kara Swisher
Well, the new CEO will have to. This isn't gonna be a Tim Cook one. This is gonna be the new CEO making a big move. Right. Presumably, whoever that happens to be. And also it'll have to be a different CEO than Bob Iger. He won't do this one.
- [40:42]
Scott Galloway
I could see an activist coming in.
- [40:43]
Kara Swisher
He's gonna retire soon.
- [40:45]
Scott Galloway
I don't know. It is just gonna be. Whoever gets this. It will inspire a lot of chess playing by the other players. Because if Paramount, if Netflix isn't. If you want to talk about. All of a sudden, the Paramount acquisition looks like they dramatically overpaid the day Netflix. HBO closes. Paramount plus just looks fucked.
- [41:05]
Kara Swisher
They look fucked. And they have to join Mob up with someone. And there's no mobbing. And because I think Disney either goes to Apple or it goes. You know, if Netflix doesn't get this, you can see Netflix and Apple, I mean coming together too.
- [41:16]
Scott Galloway
Yeah, that would be a merger. Because I think Netflix is another thing.
- [41:21]
Kara Swisher
That government probably wouldn't let happen.
- [41:22]
Scott Galloway
400 and Disney's at 200. But we're now in a point where the unthinkable in terms of size of acquisition Disney used to be too big to acquire. That's no longer true.
- [41:34]
Kara Swisher
Yeah. No. Get ready, Elizabeth Warren. You're going to have some stuff going on.
- [41:38]
Scott Galloway
You know who could. I mean Christ, my mind just blown here that these things some of the biggest everything now it's technology in the Seven Dwarves. Everything's being run and dictated by the wealth or paper loss is Oracle. Who would have thought that the likelihood that Paramount would buy Warner Brothers would be based on Oracle's stock price?
- [42:04]
Kara Swisher
Right. It's just because it's a rich kid and his dad. This makes no economic sense.
- [42:08]
Scott Galloway
Oracle's ability to position themselves as the number two infrastructure player is the fulcrum of the acquisition of Batman.
- [42:15]
Kara Swisher
I know it's crazy. It's gonna remember many years ago. You don't remember.
- [42:18]
Scott Galloway
My mind is blown. Kara.
- [42:19]
Kara Swisher
When TNT was doing that Comcast thing, I said they're not still. None of them are gonna be big enough. Years ago I said this. They're not gonna be big enough. And so all these antitrust people are gonna have a hard time stopping.
- [42:31]
Scott Galloway
And don't count the Roberts out. You don't become billionaires in Philadelphia unless you have killed a lot of people.
- [42:36]
Kara Swisher
And are really smart and they're really nice people. You're very friendly for killers. Anyway. All right, let's go on a quick break. We come back Donald Trump's new AI executive order.
- [42:50]
Scott Galloway
Friday, Avatar Fire and Ash arrives in theaters. I am the fire. Get your 3D tickets now for the greatest chapter of the biggest saga in history. Whatever happens, protect this family. Critics rave. It's by far the best Avatar movie.
- [43:08]
Kara Swisher
If your father and I do not return, you go as far and as.
- [43:11]
Scott Galloway
Fast as you can. Movies don't get any bigger than this. Fire and Ash, rated PG 13.
- [43:18]
Kara Swisher
Get tickets now. Running a business comes with a lot of what ifs. But luckily there's a simple answer to Shopify. It's the commerce platform behind millions of businesses, including Thrive Cosmetics and Momofuku. And it'll help you with everything you need, from website design and marketing to boosting sales and expanding operations. Shopify can get the Job done and make your dream a reality. Turn those what ifs into sign up for your $1 per month trial@shopify.com specialoffer.
- [43:50]
Scott Galloway
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- [44:24]
Kara Swisher
Scott, we're back. President Trump just signed an AI executive order to effectively neuter individual state laws regulating artificial. The order directs the DOJ to sue states and overturn laws that do not support, quote, the United States global AI dominance. Trump is also directing federal regulators to withhold funds for broadband and other projects if states keep their laws in place. Child safety laws are exempt from this order, at least for now. The order, which has sparked opposition on both sides of the aisle, is likely to be challenged in court on the grounds that it's idiotic that only Congress has the authority to override state laws. Trump has been complaining about a patchwork of state AI laws. So have I, by the way. Donald. But do you think he and David Sacks, who really pushed this, will actually push to get a federal law? No, I do not. This is all about politics and not about policies. It's an issue dividing Republicans too. Governor Ron DeSantis called this executive order a subsidy to big tech. And he's right, Marjorie Taylor Greene's against it. There's a whole pack of people on both sides against it. And frankly, it's just, it's gonna be stopped in courts. And that's the problem. It's that they don't wanna pass federal laws that would be make sense. And instead they just wanna play politics of power here so that they don't get. They wanna stop all regulation, but they're not interested in regulation. They're interested in stopping all regulation, which is not the same thing, which is politics and not policy. So this is going to be going to go into court and then by November, Trump's not going to be able to do any of this crap. So that's. And he's on the downward hill. So obviously that none of this is going to work. So sorry, David Sachs. Good try, though. Good try.
- [45:58]
Scott Galloway
Yeah, I think you're right. And that is the government is a big fan of states rights when it comes to gun control or bodily autonomy. But all Of a sudden they've decided we need mandatory federal legislation around or regulation around AI, which we don't have. And this is the mandatory federal regulation. They'll have dick. They won't have anything.
- [46:18]
Kara Swisher
They won't have dick.
- [46:20]
Scott Galloway
They won't have dick because effectively the Trump administration's ability to send secret police into cities and the entire economy is a giant bet on AI and so they don't want any regulation that gets in the way of their thoroughbreds running. And you're going to see, in my view, and this is one of my predictions for 26, you're going to see what is positioned as an investment but effectively will be a bailout of these guys in the form of government backed debt to continue this crazy champagne and cocaine disco party of data centers and chip acquisitions. But essentially the Trump administration has said, I don't care if it means leaking capital from the 490 of the S&P 500 to the 10. He's all in on AI. And the last thing they're going to let happen or they're going to try and let happen is any sort of regulation. And it's insane that we're not looking at synthetic relationships. It's insane that we're not looking at.
- [47:16]
Kara Swisher
Well, some states are not our government, but not our federal government. Some states are starting to do this and that's why they want to stop it.
- [47:23]
Scott Galloway
Well, that's right. And they're claiming that it's. That we need one unified. Having a unified operating system and something as complicated as AI across the 50 states. Makes sense. The problem is that's just a false flag. They just want no regulation.
- [47:36]
Kara Swisher
That's right. That is correct. That is correct. These people, you remember that Bond movie, the World is Not Enough. That's what they are.
- [47:43]
Scott Galloway
I just remember the Bond girls. Who was the Bond girl in it?
- [47:46]
Kara Swisher
I don't remember who it was, but in any case.
- [47:47]
Scott Galloway
Oh, it was Pierce profile.
- [47:49]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, yeah, I think so. Yeah.
- [47:51]
Scott Galloway
Oh, Sophie Marceau. Oh, Denise Richards was in.
- [47:54]
Kara Swisher
No, no, no, that was later. That's with Daniel Craig.
- [47:57]
Scott Galloway
Denise Richards.
- [47:59]
Kara Swisher
No, no, she's in the one with the bomb.
- [48:00]
Scott Galloway
Oh, really?
- [48:01]
Kara Swisher
Yeah. Remember she's a nuclear physicist.
- [48:03]
Scott Galloway
I don't know. Best names ever. Holly Goodhead.
- [48:06]
Kara Swisher
She was Christmas. She was some Merry Christmas or something like. That was her name. Anyway, so excited about the next Bond. Anyway, yeah, this is what we feel. This is a bullshit David Sacks. Sorry. But good try, good try. It's not gonna work. It's gonna get sucked up into court and then your big Daddy Trump is gonna be on the downhill slide. So you're trying your best to get something happening before that, but you're not gonna make fetch happen. It's gonna get stopped in the court and it has bipartisan support from at some point they're gonna Congress is gonna reach down and feel its balls and stop all this nonsense. Anyway, one more quick break. We'll be back for Win. Deck your home with blinds.com. Diy or let us install.
- [48:59]
Scott Galloway
Free design consultation.
- [49:05]
Kara Swisher
Plus free samples and free shipping.
- [49:11]
Scott Galloway
Blinds.com invented a better way to buy custom high quality window treatments with no showroom mockups or waiting around for quotes from pushy salespeople. Saving you time and money for the holidays with upfront pricing right on our website. Go right now to blinds.com satisfaction guaranteed. Satisfaction guarantees. Head to Blinds now for up to 50 off with minimum purchase plus a free professional measure. Blinds.com rules and restrictions may apply.
- [49:47]
Kara Swisher
If you're looking for the perfect holiday gift and you want to give something more thoughtful than another gadget or pair of socks, here's my suggestion. A subscription to New York Magazine. I've been part of New York Magazine for a while now, and I can tell you at some of the best journalism out there. From AI in classrooms to the future of media, New York Magazine digs into the stories, ideas and people shaping culture today and right now. When you subscribe or give an annual subscription, you'll get a free New York Magazine Beanie. New York Magazine is the gift that informs, entertains, and keeps on giving all year long. Head to nymag.com gift to get started. Hi everyone, this is Kara Swisher. And this week on my podcast, on with Kara Swisher, I'm interviewing one of my favorite people, Rachel Maddow. We Talk with the MSNow host about her new narrative podcast about the incarceration of Japanese Americans during World War II. You may think you know that story, but you actually don't. And we also break down the parallels between Japanese internment and Trump's mass deportation policies. Take a listen.
- [50:53]
Scott Galloway
People who are working in the regime.
- [50:56]
Kara Swisher
Right now that is terrorizing people on the basis of race explicitly, they're gonna have to answer for it. And they may have to answer for it just to their own families and to God. But if we do this right, they're gonna have to answer in court as well. The full conversation is out now and you can find it wherever you get your podcast. Search for on with Kara Swisher and hit follow. Okay, Scott, some wins and fails. Would you like Me to go first.
- [51:24]
Scott Galloway
You go first.
- [51:25]
Kara Swisher
Okay. My fail was this measles outbreak in South Carolina is accelerating with over 100 reported cases. Even Fox News put up a thing that measles has gone up. I think it's 14,000% in the Trump administration, this new Trump administration. The fact that anyone's getting measles at all is like. To become best friend to measles is astonishing. Many of these diseases are diseases we have solved many years ago and decades ago. And the fact that people are getting measles, which is very deadly, everybody, just so you know, it's not just, you know, sometimes it's just spots on your face. A lot of times it's incredibly debilitating or fatal. The fact that they're accelerating. South Carolina and Texas, all these places. Will you people get a fucking measles vaccine like it really is. Oh, the efficacy is so great and the rarity of any problems. And as it's showing what's happening is a lot of this data that they're showing where Covid is a problem or there were 10 deaths. It's really nonsense data. They're lying to you about this in order to pass what they get. And Robert Kennedy, he will get a pardon by Trump, but he should go to jail for what he's been doing. That's my feeling. As I've said, my way. I was gonna say the gay hockey show heated rivalry, which I think you'll like.
- [52:48]
Scott Galloway
Gay hockey.
- [52:49]
Kara Swisher
Yeah. It's a really hot gay. Hot. It's been. Canada has brought us a tale of forbidden love between hockey players. And it is very hot. Let me just say it's very, very hot. And I am not a big aficionado of gay porn, but there you have it. It's really. It's. Well, it's like romance porn.
- [53:08]
Scott Galloway
That's not your genre.
- [53:09]
Kara Swisher
It's not my genre, but I like. But I was gonna give it to that. But I have to say again, you've got me onto this. This episode of Pluribus, the gap was astonishing. People either don't like it or like it. Nothing happens in this episode. But it does. There's no words. They don't. The two characters, this guy coming up from Paraguay and Rhea Seehorn, who's amazing as Carol was just. It was so beautiful an episode. It takes so much guts. As you said. Vince Gillian, in the middle of your hit season and the way I think this will end up being the most important thing Apple's done and possibly on streaming right now in the middle of your season you pull this shit. I love it. I love every bit of it. It was so. I think about it all week, every single aspect of those shows and the things they do. And if I were Carol, a lesbian stuck by myself, I too would golf into a window. I would drive Golf Whigs into a skyscraper window and really enjoy doing it. And I just, I love both characters and I'm excited for them to meet, I assume in the next episode, but I gotta say, it takes a set. Speaking of balls again, not pucks. To do this, to do the way they did it. All right, that's my win. Go ahead.
- [54:26]
Scott Galloway
So I'll start with my fail. My fail is Face the Nation's incredibly odd framing of a question to Senator Bill Cassidy this past Sunday that literally, I love Margaret Brennan. I love Face the Nation. It's one of the many ways I communicate to my sons that I'm 140 fucking years old. As I love watching Face the Nation. But I asked the team to just cue up this one question. Do we have the question?
- [54:54]
Kara Swisher
CBS has confirmed that there are no ongoing safety studies into the abortion drug mifepristone. This was despite the Trump administration saying they were going to conduct one. And anti abortion groups want this review to take place. I saw a letter the FDA commissioner sent to you last week claiming they are reviewing the evidence. Do you believe him? And if not, what are you doing about it?
- [55:22]
Scott Galloway
That is nothing but whitewashed Sunday morning Vaseline over wholesale massage. The framing of the question, has the FDA conducted investigations? No, they haven't conducted investigations into Advil or Erythromycin either. Why? Because this is an FDA approved drug that the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists and other leading medical organizations have stated that that mifepristone is an open quote, incredibly safe medication.
- [56:05]
Kara Swisher
Yes, it is. Thank you, sir.
- [56:06]
Scott Galloway
And the complications are exceedingly rare, usually minor and easily treatable. As a matter of fact, and there's peer reviewed research on this, the U.S. death rate from childbirth is about 14 times higher than from any legally induced abortion. All methods, including the safest, which is mifepristone. And to frame it as, oh, there's a concern, they aren't looking at this, investigating it is such an incredible far right talking point that somehow to claim that you give a flying fuck about women's health by undermining women's health by sowing doubt, of which there is no medical evidence that lends any veracity to that doubt.
- [57:04]
Kara Swisher
Yes, it's called reporting. And they're not Doing it at the.
- [57:07]
Scott Galloway
Current CBS News, they're taking a heritage.
- [57:10]
Kara Swisher
Talking point that is right.
- [57:11]
Scott Galloway
And sowing doubt from a show. And a journalist who never used to do this bullshit.
- [57:20]
Kara Swisher
She also has done it several times since the purchase by Paramount, which I warned you about, Scott. I told you these people aren't reporting. And it gives me no pleasure. But, Margaret, what in the actual fuck are you doing? Go ahead.
- [57:32]
Scott Galloway
But the framing of this question creates doubt around this drug.
- [57:36]
Kara Swisher
Yes, that's the point.
- [57:37]
Scott Galloway
Which is it is so irresponsible and such an abuse of a brand that has taken.
- [57:44]
Kara Swisher
Correct.
- [57:45]
Scott Galloway
That has taken decades.
- [57:46]
Kara Swisher
Just asking questions, Scott. Just asking. That is the attitude towards the people who run CBS News.
- [57:52]
Scott Galloway
Asking a conservative senator.
- [57:53]
Kara Swisher
Correct.
- [57:54]
Scott Galloway
A talking point that somehow frames it as your concern. If they were to say people on the far right believe that this is murder and they want it looked into, okay, fine. But to pretend this is about women's health under the auspice of trying to create doubt around a very effective means of bodily autonomy, which is the definition of women's health, is just. I mean, I'm holding cbs, the show, and quite frankly, Margaret Brennan. What the fuck are you thinking?
- [58:34]
Kara Swisher
My sentiments exactly. This is not the.
- [58:36]
Scott Galloway
Margaret Brennan is a star. You have leverage. You should not be reading the talking points from Project 2025.
- [58:45]
Kara Swisher
Yep. She did it before. This one was repulsive. It really is. I appreciate. Scott, I love you. I love you.
- [58:51]
Scott Galloway
I stopped the show and I'm like, did I just hear this correctly?
- [58:54]
Kara Swisher
That's correct.
- [58:55]
Scott Galloway
And I went on YouTube and I'm threads, and I'm like, what the fuck? What the actual. And it's so dis. Anyway, I'm gonna move on.
- [59:03]
Kara Swisher
Well, I'm just saying, the whole CBS News page was a nothing burger of an Erica Kirk interview. So I told you this would happen, but go ahead, go ahead.
- [59:14]
Scott Galloway
I was right.
- [59:14]
Kara Swisher
I was right.
- [59:15]
Scott Galloway
And I was right. The new novel.
- [59:17]
Kara Swisher
Because they're not reporters. They're like.
- [59:18]
Scott Galloway
It's the new novel from Kara Switcher. All right, this is my win.
- [59:24]
Kara Swisher
Okay. I want to win. I want to win.
- [59:25]
Scott Galloway
Okay, this really is a win.
- [59:26]
Kara Swisher
It's the gay hockey players.
- [59:28]
Scott Galloway
Gawky, Gawky.
- [59:29]
Kara Swisher
Oh, that's right.
- [59:31]
Scott Galloway
So.
- [59:33]
Kara Swisher
Merry Christmas.
- [59:34]
Scott Galloway
Balls. I didn't know that. A lot of gay hairs.
- [59:36]
Kara Swisher
A lot of balls in that show.
- [59:37]
Scott Galloway
I didn't know there were a lot of gay hockey players. Oh, my God.
- [59:39]
Kara Swisher
All the people are talking about it.
- [59:42]
Scott Galloway
I mean, they do suck a mean diary dick. Yeah, I do that question. That joke never gets old. Anyway, so my Win is Cara. I'm at that age. I posted on Instagram, and this isn't about me. It's not a big loss for me. The individual I'm about to talk about, I hadn't seen in decades. But there was a core group of eight of us in the fraternity, and one of them is Brad Luff, who passed away this week after a battle with pancreatic cancer. And obviously, that's not my win and I one, it's not a big loss for me. I haven't seen Brad in 30 years. But my win is the following. My win is a close friend named David Kingsdale, who was part of our core group. And the last few years, Brad had struggled on a number of levels, including in terms of his relationships with his family. And David, who is this? He was president of our fraternity, captain of our football team. Just like the ultimate kind of, like, aspirational alpha male and a really decent man. He had spent the better part of the last two years coordinating and caring for Brad in terms of his healthcare. I would get a call from David. This couldn't have been easy for David and say, do you know anyone at Cedars? I'm trying to get him into the right physical therapy. Do you know anyone? Do you know a surgeon here? There have been studies showing that the most important thing in healthcare is that you have an advocate, and that is you have someone who loves you, you, and someone who's looking out for you. And here was David Kingsdale looking after Brad. Anyways, I think a lot about happiness, and I just had David Brooks on my podcast. And the biggest studies of its kind all say that happiness comes down to the number of deep and meaningful relationships. That's not a spoiler or that seems somewhat obvious, but the wrinkle in it that's really interesting is that the happiest people aren't the ones who are loved the most. It's the ones that have the most people to love, right? That find relationships, where they find people who will love them. William Macy has a great line in the film Magnolia where he says, I have love to give. I just don't know where to give it. And I've been thinking a lot about David. He just demonstrated so much character when Brad was so vulnerable. Here was a guy, really competent guy, who was known for 40 years, calling everyone, helping raise money for Brad, finding the right doctors. And this is a guy with his own life, his own career, his own wife, and his own kids. And it just got me thinking that the happiest people are able to find others where they can put a lot of love. Anyways, my win is David Kingsdale, who placed a lot of love and regard and gave a lot of comfort to our friend Brad Luff at the end of his life. So my winner win is David Kingsdale.
- [62:32]
Kara Swisher
Oh. Oh, that's lovely, Scott. That is. It's time. This is the time. Especially when we should be thinking about that stuff.
- [62:38]
Scott Galloway
So weird. Our friends are dying, Kara. It's so weird.
- [62:41]
Kara Swisher
It's true. It's true. That's the way it goes. But not today. Not us.
- [62:45]
Scott Galloway
Not today.
- [62:46]
Kara Swisher
Not today. And by the way, Scott, I would take care of you because that's how.
- [62:51]
Scott Galloway
I'll count on that. Just bring the hat.
- [62:54]
Kara Swisher
It's going to be some facelift.
- [62:56]
Scott Galloway
I need you to be two things. I need you to bring the hat and Emily Ratajkowski.
- [62:59]
Kara Swisher
I will. I will bring her. If you are. If you had some facelift gone awry, as that's how it's going to go.
- [63:05]
Scott Galloway
That's a good chance.
- [63:06]
Kara Swisher
That's a good chance. Some Joan Rivers action. Me and George Hahn will do everything it takes to get Emily Radicow's feet at your bedside.
- [63:14]
Scott Galloway
I appreciate that. I appreciate that.
- [63:16]
Kara Swisher
I'm going to send it to you. I appreciate that as a single white ball. That's how you operate. Look at this. See? Anyway, um, well, that's a lovely. That's a lovely thing to say, but again, I feel my gay pucks are much better. Okay, we want to hear from you. Send us your question about business, tech, or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com pivot submit a question for the show or call 85551, pivot and elsewhere in the Karen Scott universe this week and on with Kara Swisher. I spoke with podcaster and neuroscientist Sam Harris. We talked about why so many tech billionaires have embraced Trump's authoritarian politics. Of course we did. Let's listen to clip.
- [63:52]
Scott Galloway
No one ever has to give a rational accounting of how their views have changed. I mean, after January 6th. Some of the guys on the all in podcast, I think it was Chamath most vocally in the aftermath of January 6th. Yeah, I think he said that Trump should be in jail for the rest of his life. It's like, so how these guys went from there to where they are now has never been explained. And they feel no burden to explain it because they have cultivated at audiences that simply don't care about these kinds of ethical.
- [64:27]
Kara Swisher
Now we're doing this. Now we're doing this. I think that was great. And he also noted that they will go right back and pretend it never happened when things go dark, which they are.
- [64:36]
Scott Galloway
He's a role model. I mean, a genuine role model. I love.
- [64:39]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, he and I used to beef all the time. This was. It's so much. Allies have changed so drastically. I have to say both he and Yuval Harari, who were very tight with the tech bros, have been courageous to push up against them, which Sam has to his detriment.
- [64:54]
Scott Galloway
I would suspect Sam is literally the personification of a moral compass. He has his principles and he just never waivers from them. I find he's the least perverted adulterate money has had the least. He's very successful. And the guys he's referencing are a moral compass gone haywire. It's all about everything they say in the moment can be reverse engineered to what they believe will make them richer at that moment.
- [65:18]
Kara Swisher
That's right. Yeah. I have to say, we were. We. It was a really interesting discussion. Okay, that's the show. Let me just say this is our Last one before 2026 because we have taped two shows, a listener episode and a predictions episode. And we are taking a few days off on Christmas and New Year's and Scott, of course, is traveling the world. I'm just going to San Francisco with my family. We wish you happy holidays, however you celebrate. And we love our fans and we love each other. Of course. Course, that goes without saying. And we've had a great year, don't you think, Scott? With our tour, our numbers are going up. We having the best time. I think it's been a great, I mean, for a terrible 2025, it's been.
- [65:58]
Scott Galloway
Yeah, we've had a wonderful year. Thank you. Thanks to you and the team and.
- [66:01]
Kara Swisher
We hope to have a wonderful 2026. We're gonna be together for another year, at least until whenever. Anyway, thanks for listening to Pivot and be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back on Friday with a wonderful listener minute segment in which Scott, as you might imagine, cries Anyway, Scott, I love you.
- [66:23]
Scott Galloway
Love you.
- [66:24]
Kara Swisher
Happy holidays. Happy 2025 and happy next year. And I'll see you next year. Read us out.
- [66:30]
Scott Galloway
Yeah, I look forward to it. Today's show was produced by Lara Naim and Zoe Marcus and Taylor Griffin. Ernie Undertodd engineered this episode. Rich Shipley edited the video. Thanks Also to Jabrows, Mr. Bear and Dan Shalon Nishak Khuras, Vox Media's executive producer podcast make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the magazine@nymag.com pod we'll be back later this week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. We want to wish you in 26 the key to happiness, and that is you find people and things to place an immense amount of love. Happy New Year.