CEO Shooting, Bitcoin Surge, and Bezos’s Trump Optimism

Summary

Pivot Podcast Episode Summary Title: CEO Shooting, Bitcoin Surge, and Bezos’s Trump Optimism
Host: Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway
Release Date: December 6, 2024

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In this episode of Pivot, hosts Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway delve into a range of pressing topics in the realms of technology, business, and politics. From high-profile corporate maneuvers and startling industry shifts to tragic events and international political upheavals, the duo provides sharp analysis, notable insights, and engaging banter throughout the discussion.

1. Jeff Bezos’s Optimism About Trump’s Reelection

The conversation kicks off with a critical examination of Jeff Bezos’s public statements regarding former President Donald Trump’s potential second term. Swisher highlights Bezos’s overt efforts to align himself favorably with Trump, especially concerning regulatory reductions.

Kara Swisher [10:28]: "He really wants those government contracts. And he also made the most ridiculous statement..."

Galloway agrees, emphasizing the problematic nature of Bezos owning a significant media outlet like The Washington Post and using it to potentially influence political narratives.

Scott Galloway [11:01]: "Media is just so goddamn powerful. Eventually, almost every billionaire either has an interest in or decides to control a media company..."

2. Sam Altman and Elon Musk’s Tensions Over OpenAI

Swisher and Galloway shift focus to the ongoing tensions between Sam Altman of OpenAI and Elon Musk. Altman’s recent statements downplaying AI threats and discussing OpenAI’s for-profit transition are scrutinized against Musk’s aggressive stance towards the company.

Scott Galloway [16:17]: "He thinks Trump is, as I said, calmer. I don't know. I just think he wants space contracts."

The hosts express skepticism about Altman’s optimism, suggesting that Musk’s actions may undermine OpenAI’s leadership and open the door to increased political and competitive pressures.

3. Murder of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson

A shocking event prompts a deep dive into the systemic issues within the U.S. healthcare industry. Thompson’s targeted murder in Midtown Manhattan is linked to widespread frustrations with health insurers like UnitedHealthcare, which faces criticism for denying claims to maximize profits.

Kara Swisher [20:46]: "This was clearly rooted or inspired by some weird notion of restoration of societal injustice."

Galloway connects the tragedy to broader societal problems, particularly income inequality and the precarious nature of medical debt in America.

Scott Galloway [21:18]: "The number one cause of bankruptcy is medical debt. So what you have is a massive regulatory capture..."

4. International Political Turmoil: France and South Korea

The episode also touches on significant political changes abroad. France’s government collapse following the ousting of Prime Minister Michel Barnier due to an unpopular budget proposal is discussed alongside South Korea’s swift reversal of a presidential impeachment vote amidst public unrest and protests.

Kara Swisher [28:42]: "There’s so much chaos happening across the world."

The hosts reflect on the global trend of incumbent parties being ousted, attributing it to deep-seated dissatisfaction and manipulation of social media.

5. Weaponization of Media and Social Fragmentation

Swisher and Galloway express concerns over how media platforms have been weaponized, contributing to societal division and the erosion of constructive dialogue.

Scott Galloway [31:10]: "We've been fooled, Kara. I think in 20 years we're going to look back and see the information war of Goebbels..."

They argue that external forces, possibly state-sponsored, exploit social media to foster discord and weaken democratic cohesion.

6. Trump’s SEC and Antitrust Nominations

The discussion moves to Trump's recent nominations for key regulatory positions. Bezos’s SEC chairpick, Paul Atkins, and Gail Sklar’s nomination for the Justice Department’s antitrust division are analyzed for their potential impact on the tech industry and regulatory landscape.

Scott Galloway [35:13]: "The SEC, I think, is an important position. This guy seems very credible to me."

The hosts critique other nominees like Pete Hegseth and Peter Navarro, deeming them unfit for their roles due to questionable conduct and extremist views.

7. Bitcoin’s Surge and MicroStrategy’s Strategy

Bitcoin’s meteoric rise to $103,000 is a focal point, alongside MicroStrategy’s aggressive investment in the cryptocurrency under CEO Michael Saylor. Swisher praises Saylor’s strategic risk-taking, contrasting it with the volatility inherent in such investments.

Scott Galloway [62:40]: "Bitcoin is like the financial fuel. That was really good. I liked it."

They discuss the implications of corporate investments in volatile assets and the broader acceptance of Bitcoin in corporate treasuries.

8. Listener Mail: Cabinet Picks Discussion

The hosts engage in a humorous yet insightful exchange responding to a listener’s question about ideal cabinet positions. Both Swisher and Galloway propose their own candidates, blending serious recommendations with playful banter.

Kara Swisher [44:34]: "If I was President Trump or if I'm me, if I'm me, I would have picked different. I probably would have picked Jamie Dimon for the treasury job..."

Galloway suggests high-profile media personalities and tech leaders for various positions, highlighting the intersection of media influence and governmental roles.

9. Predictions for 2025

In their closing segment, Galloway offers a significant prediction about a potential uprising in Iran due to internal weaknesses and external pressures. He also humorously predicts a strike by top football players over the increasing demands placed upon them.

Scott Galloway [57:45]: "I think you're going to see an uprising in the beginning of potentially what is a revolution in Iran."

Swisher adds levity to the discussion, reflecting on the unpredictability and complexity of global and cultural dynamics.

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Throughout the episode, Swisher and Galloway maintain their characteristic blend of incisive analysis and candid dialogue, offering listeners a comprehensive look at the multifaceted issues shaping the current landscape. Their ability to intertwine serious discourse with relatable commentary makes for an engaging and informative episode that caters to both avid followers and newcomers alike.

Notable Quotes:

• Kara Swisher [10:28]: "He really wants those government contracts. And he also made the most ridiculous statement..."

• Scott Galloway [21:18]: "The number one cause of bankruptcy is medical debt. So what you have is a massive regulatory capture..."

• Scott Galloway [31:10]: "We've been fooled, Kara. I think in 20 years we're going to look back and see the information war of Goebbels..."

• Kara Swisher [44:34]: "If I was President Trump or if I'm me, if I'm me, I would have picked different. I probably would have picked Jamie Dimon for the treasury job..."

• Scott Galloway [57:45]: "I think you're going to see an uprising in the beginning of potentially what is a revolution in Iran."

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This episode of Pivot encapsulates the dynamic interplay between technology, business strategies, and political maneuvers, offering listeners a nuanced perspective on the forces driving today's headlines.

Transcript

[Scott Galloway]

Support for pivot comes from BetterHelp. December is probably the coziest month of the year. It's the perfect month to get comfy with a chunky blanket or drink a tall mug of tea by the fire. Well, therapy can help you find comfort and ease, no matter the season. BetterHelp is the largest online therapy provider in the world, connecting you to qualified professionals via phone, video or message chat. Find comfort this December with BetterHelp. You can visit betterhelp.com pivot today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H E L p.com pivot support for.

[Kara Swisher]

This show comes from Crucible Moments, a podcast from Sequoia Capital. We've all had turning points in our lives where the decisions we make end up having lasting consequences. No one knows this better than the founders of some of today's most influential tech companies. Crucible Moments is a podcast series that lets listeners in on the make or break events that define major companies like Natera, Dropbox, Nubank, and more. Tune into the new season of Crucible Moments.

[Scott Galloway]

Now.

[Kara Swisher]

You can [e-mail] or wherever you listen to podcasts.

[Scott Galloway]

Support for the show comes from Ferragamo. It's the holidays, and showing appreciation for those you care about is surely top of mind. Why not spoil your loved ones with a touch of luxury from Ferragamo? Each carefully wrapped gift tells a unique story, and under our wrapping, you can discover some beautifully crafted Ferragamo items. Join Ferragamo in celebrating the spirit of the holidays with a collection of the best of Italian craftsmanship, from small leather goods to the iconic hug handbag or signature loafers and belts. Visit ferragamo.com to discover the most thoughtful holiday gifts for the entire family. You do spy on me. You fucking text me at three in the morning. You know what I'm doing at all moments.

[Kara Swisher]

I do know what you're doing at all moments. I've got to keep track of you because you're up to things. Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher.

[Scott Galloway]

And I'm Scott Galloway.

[Kara Swisher]

Scott, it is cold as a mother outside. It is freezing here in Washington.

[Scott Galloway]

Really?

[Kara Swisher]

I feel like I live in London.

[Scott Galloway]

No, if you lived in London, it would be 50 and dark already. Yeah, and you'd be thinking a spa of tea. Ask where the dog is. Kara, where's the dog?

[Kara Swisher]

Where are you? Where are you?

[Scott Galloway]

I'm in the Cotswolds. I'm in the Cotswolds. We're moving. And my job when we move is to simply put, get the fuck out of the way. And my value add is to bring the dogs out to the Cotswolds. Here, let me do my impression of me moving. I'm in a room packing my stuff and occasionally you just hear an expletive and then. Where are my edibles? I can't find my edibles. And so the Panzer tank commander who is organizing this move has decided.

[Kara Swisher]

Your wife? Yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

I am not a value add. And my job is to leave and take the dogs with me. So I'm out at Heckfield Place.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh.

[Scott Galloway]

Taking long walks with the dogs and having farm all organic breakfasts and.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, okay. Do you know who else is in the Cotswolds?

[Scott Galloway]

I'm sure there's quite a few people.

[Kara Swisher]

Ellen DeGeneres and her wife Portia de Rossi. They've moved from the United States to the Cotswolds. Yeah, apparently.

[Scott Galloway]

Huh. I have not. I did not run into Ellen on my walk today, but.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, I'm just saying it could be like a beautiful, you know, one of those British romances where you ride up on the horse and you know, they, they're.

[Scott Galloway]

They accidentally drop my scarf or. She drops her scarf.

[Kara Swisher]

Yes. Or something. Or else they just, they. They run out into the. Into the moors or whatever the hell they.

[Scott Galloway]

I think I'm more into her wife Portia. She was great in Arrested Development. I thought she was hilarious.

[Kara Swisher]

She was great in a lot of things. She was in Ally Mc. You don't remember that? That's back. By the way, you can watch.

[Scott Galloway]

I never watched Ally McBeal. I never.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh my God. Do yourself a favor there in the Cotswolds and get your butt. I think it's on one of them. I forget.

[Scott Galloway]

You know my queue does not include Ally McBeal.

[Kara Swisher]

I'm just telling you you'd like it. Shockingly, I have this feeling that you would like it anyway. Well, that's nice. I'm here in the district of Columbia.

[Scott Galloway]

D.C. but do you have sunshine there? Like has the sun been out in the last seven days?

[Kara Swisher]

No, it's gray today. It's going to be sunshine and freezing tomorrow. But no, we have gray. And I am preparing for a weekend of Christmas parties. I was supposed to go to the Meta holiday party tonight, but I. Amanda is under the weather a little bit.

[Scott Galloway]

We'll just stay home and self harm. Same Sam. That's funny. That invitation must have got lost in the mail for me. I Didn't get invited to the Meta party.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, they like me at the Meta Washington office. Don't tell Mark, but they do.

[Scott Galloway]

It's because you're powerful. They don't need to be nice to me. I hate them, but I have no power, so they can just not invite me. They hate you, but you have power, so they pretend to like you.

[Kara Swisher]

A couple of them are super smart. I think they're not.

[Scott Galloway]

That's the problem. A lot of them are super smart. That's the whole problem.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, you're right. You're right. You're 100% right. And then go into a bunch of parties. It's gonna be fun. It's a holiday party. Weekend is here in D.C. you gonna.

[Scott Galloway]

Get drunk and make out with anybody?

[Kara Swisher]

No.

[Scott Galloway]

Or be, like, stumbling drunk and then run for and then be a nominee for the cabinet?

[Kara Swisher]

No. I'm a rare partygoer. I'm very rare. And I leave early. I'm not like. And I don't give a lot. I don't give a lot. And that's my power. I'm like.

[Scott Galloway]

You know, I'm glad you finally acknowledge that across all your relationships. Karaoke.

[Kara Swisher]

Your tea stirring is loud. You know, I can hear your dink. Dink. Let me hear that again.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, no. It's one of these weird bottles that they can't just give you water. It has to be something kind of classy and stylish. British design actually really stepped it up in kind of the aughts. And it even says on it, still water. Well, thank you. And I tried to make tea with, like, free range leaves or whatever it was, and it tasted like ass. And I'm like, I'm just gonna order a latte from room service.

[Kara Swisher]

You are such not a British person. But I'm glad you're there. You know, the theme of my fam. Of my school, my Saul's preschool, they have a party every year, which I try not to go to, but then Amanda demands it, which is James Bond.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, that must be fun. Okay, I'm going as Holly Goodhead. True story. True. That was a true Bond girl. Holly Goodhead. It was the woman who was in I forget her name. She was in Broadcast News. She played the anchor that threatened Holly Hunter, so they sent her to Alaska. I forgot her name. Tall drink of lemonade.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, I love them zoom spawn movies, but I'd rather be home.

[Scott Galloway]

Still. Best Bond girl Thandie Newton. Most beautiful woman in the world. Dandy. Yeah. No. If she's ever on your pod.

[Kara Swisher]

And I will Let you know she's in London. I shall let you know about her if there's ever that you could get her on your pods. And everybody loves the pod, Scott, don't you know that?

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, my God. How many people have called you in the last two weeks saying, hey, what's going on? You know, I think we'd have a really interesting discussion on the pod. I'm like, yeah, boss, get in line.

[Kara Swisher]

Anyway, I did a really good one in New York with the CEO of two, which is this quiet streaming service that's killing it. And Anjali sued and she's a young woman and is killing it at this thing quietly, as others are. Anyway, it's really cool. She used to be CEO of Vimeo and she's like 12.

[Scott Galloway]

There's a bunch of those guys. Pluto, what's the other one?

[Kara Swisher]

One of them free. V closed. Amazon closed. Freebie. Anyway, 81 million subscribers. People using it. Not subscribers because it's free, but 81 million is huge. It's bigger than almost all of them, except for Disney, Netflix and I think Amazon. Anyway, we've got a lot to get to today, including Sam Altman trying to make nice with Elon. Bitcoin surging. Oh, now we have to be nice to Cathie Wood, but we're not going to. Anyway, surging on the news of Trump's SEC pick, so we have to dive right in. Andrew Rossorkin, our favorite Canadian, had quite an action packed event yesterday in New York with everybody was there. It was kind of crazy. He's sort of become the code conference. Interesting.

[Scott Galloway]

I was just going to say he's filled a vacuum left by Karis Richard. You know, what is it? A very small man can cast a long shadow. Oh, don't tell me that you have cast a very long shadow and you have left the stage. Oh, my God. Bitcoin's at $103,000. Jesus Christ.

[Kara Swisher]

I know. We'll get to it. We'll get to it.

[Scott Galloway]

Raise your hand if you don't own a single fucking coin. Anyways, I generally believe that you left a void in the market. And Andrew, who does a great job on his own, but that and I would argue the Milken Conference have kind of become. Well, actually there's still Sun Valley, but I think the Milken Conference and Andrew Ross Orkins thing.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

So I spoke at one of those breakout panels that Andrew has that was kind of like they pretend they've asked you to speak on the main stage and you show up and you're in a Room with like eight other people.

[Kara Swisher]

Yep.

[Scott Galloway]

And then I was asked to speak. Cause I know you wanted to bring it back to me.

[Kara Swisher]

I do. Always.

[Scott Galloway]

I was asked to speak at the Milken conference. And I said, I sent him my speaker sheet with my fees and like, boss, we don't pay anybody to speak. And I wrote back and I said, okay, they want to put me on a panel on like, I don't know, media and tech. And I'm like, I'm sorry, I only do keynotes. And they wrote back. I guess it's not going to work. We don't have keynotes, just panels. So I am literally the Karen of the Milken Institute.

[Kara Swisher]

And you are. I did the same thing, Scott.

[Scott Galloway]

I did the same thing and I screwed up. I'd like to go. It's supposed to be amazing. Anyways, whoever curates the Milken thing, maybe.

[Kara Swisher]

We could offer ourselves up as a thing.

[Scott Galloway]

No, they don't want entertainment. They want like real, like brain power. So don't buy you.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, that's true. Brain power. What are you talking about? We're like so brainy.

[Scott Galloway]

We're brainy.

[Kara Swisher]

Anyway, just so you know, Andrew Ross, urgent is not a Canadian. We get back to Andy, he's a Canadian spy.

[Scott Galloway]

Do I have to remind everyone?

[Kara Swisher]

Again, several different things were interesting. Jeff Bezos says he's optimistic about president like Donald Trump second term. At the summit, he was doing more suck upper y. Let's listen. I'm actually very optimistic this time around that he seems to have a lot of energy around reducing regulation. And my point of view, if I can help him do that, I'm going to help him. Yeah, he's in full suck up mode. He really wants those government contracts. And he also made the most ridiculous statement. Let me just read this to you because I thought it was just kind of silly. He finally acknowledged he was the one that did the changes of the Kamala Harris endorsement when the company had said it was a group effort. But he was like, no, it was me, essentially, which we all knew, which we didn't need to be told by him. But one of the interesting thing is he said it creates perception of bias if you do them. And then of course, he was creating a perception of bias by being so effusive about Trump. He's really more than anybody else and not really acknowledging he should not own that paper. In so many ways he seems to. He said he's going to fix it and save it the second time, but people who were there thought he was quite arrogant, actually. I talked about a dozen people and trying to be adorable and not succeeding. He said he would try to talk Trump out of the idea that the press was the enemy. And he thinks Trump is, as I said, calmer. I don't know. I just think he wants space contracts. That's really pretty much what I took away from that one. Thoughts?

[Scott Galloway]

There's a couple of things. One, I agree with you. If you're going to take over a national treasure like the Washington Post, which plays an outsized role relative to its actual business, in the policing, in the truth, to power, neither fear nor favor, it really does play an important role. And I do think that. Excuse me. I do think that Bezos saw that and bought it for a song. 250 million, you said? Yeah, bought it for a song and genuinely was. Was thought of it as, I don't know, a goodwill gesture towards the community. At least that's how he positioned and framed it.

[Kara Swisher]

He did.

[Scott Galloway]

And a lot of billionaires buy media companies or control them because they're thinking, if anyone comes after me, I can defend it with this heat shield called my own media network, or I can. I can evangelize my own political views. Media is just so goddamn powerful. Eventually, almost every billionaire either has an interest in or decides to control a media company, recognizing that's the ultimate prophylactic and the ultimate offensive weapon. So when he gets involved, when he makes editorial decisions, choosing to not endorse anyone was an endorsement of Trump, right?

[Kara Swisher]

Of course. At the last minute, too. At the last minute, yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

It was an endorsement of Trump, and that is terrible for the culture. It was a really low, what I'll call management EQ move. You're creating dissent across a group of talented people where there's already strain because the business is strained. So you're adding chaos where there doesn't need to be. So you're right. He's the wrong owner. He should put it in a trust such that he can say, guys, I have no influence. Mr. President, I have no influence over this thing. I know that article they wrote about you saying that you've been. That you're a felon, that you've been found guilty by jury of your peers of rape, that you actually coordinated and inspired an insurrection. You know, true or not, I can't help it. They're going to report the way they're going to report. When he weighs in, that means he's the wrong owner because he has a conflict. And that is the right thing for him to do as a fiduciary for Amazon shareholders is to unnaturally kiss Donald Trump's ass because it works.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, absolutely. He's very good at it. Let me just say I compared, I was comparing all the different statements by all the CEOs. Jeff is gone over and above all the others by and never mentions the Washington Post, which. And he's the only one with the newspaper. I get it when Cook does it. I get it when Nadella does it. I get it when all of them do it. And I, and I had an interview with Marc Benioff yesterday and we had a great discussion about this. But he was forthright about it. And Bezos is sort of playing games. That's my feeling. I mean Mark was like, this is why I'm doing it. This is why, you know, why it's good, this is why it's bad. I get it that I own time. So I gotta be very careful and make sure I stress that time will do what it. You know. It was a whole different experience with Mark.

[Scott Galloway]

Betty offers and I think Mark wants to sell time. No, he wants out.

[Kara Swisher]

He says he doesn't. It was interesting on the record. He said there people have approached him.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh yeah, a lot of people want on Time magazine.

[Kara Swisher]

I know. Yeah, yeah, I get it. So I don't know. I couldn't tell. I think, I think if he got a great offer, he'd sell it. But he was pretty much, I'm not selling it right now. Essentially.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, that's, that's, that's.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. He's not trying to sell it. He's incoming.

[Scott Galloway]

That's someone selling. Trying to get a decent number and get out of Dodge. He could have said it's not for sale. The guy doesn't need to sell it. So even being open to it means anybody. I want to sell it. Like billionaires mind media companies is like when you buy a boat, it's a ton of fun for a while and.

[Kara Swisher]

Then you just until it's not.

[Scott Galloway]

Until it's not. Yeah.

[Kara Swisher]

One of the, I think one of the better owners is Lorraine Powell jobs. She apparently leaves her hands off over at the Atlantic and they've been doing some very tough reporting. And she never says anything public. Even though she supported Kamala Harris, she never was public in any way. She's got an extra responsibility. Something Bezos said. What presidential endorsements actually do is create a perception of bias, a perception of non independence. This is exactly what happened by his claudist decision at the wrong time and then his effusive praise. That's exactly like every accusation As I say, is a confession with these people. Anyway, we'll see. Jeff, good luck. But I have to tell you, most people there thought you seemed like an arrogant twit. Sam also had some interesting things to say at the summit. Sam Altman. He noted that there have been misalignments and challenges in the OpenAI Microsoft relationship. No shit. But insisted the two companies were not disentangling. He played down AI threats, said Artificial general intelligence will arrive soon and discussed OpenAI's transition to a for profit model. He was asked obviously about Elon Musk's relationship with Trump because Elon's back to suing him again, as we discussed last week, and possible misuse of power. Let's listen.

[Scott Galloway]

I believe that pretty strongly. It may turn out to be wrong, but I believe pretty strongly that Elon will do the right thing and that Americans, it'd be profoundly un American to use political power to the degree that Elon has it to hurt your competitors and advantage your own businesses. And I don't think people would tolerate that. I don't think Elon would do it.

[Kara Swisher]

I.

[Scott Galloway]

It would go again, lots of things not to like about him, but it would go so deeply against the values I believe he holds very dear to himself that I'm not that worried about it. He's wrong on both counts.

[Kara Swisher]

I agree.

[Scott Galloway]

Musk would do it. And unfortunately America has shown an ability to tolerate it recently.

[Kara Swisher]

I agree.

[Scott Galloway]

So, yeah, don't hold your breath, boss. If you're waiting for the better angels of Musk to show up, don't hold your breath. In terms of putting you out of business, supporting that ridiculous kneecap every AI legislation in California that Governor Newsom correctly vetoed. I mean, of course he would do everything within his power to kneecap OpenAI to hope that X AI catches up such that he can control every technology. And unfortunately I no longer have the confidence I once did that this couldn't happen.

[Kara Swisher]

No, it happened, actually. Vivek Ramaswamy, by the way, they're here in Washington. Go up and talk about Doge on the Hill today. They're here. I'm staying at home. But they had talked about it quite openly. Vivek Ramaswany said maybe they should look at the last minute Rivian loan, which is a competitor to Tesla and a lot of the other things. It was so stupid. Not the Rivian loan, because Tesla got a $450 million loan that saved him.

[Scott Galloway]

It outsome is so partisan. It undermines profitability. Why would they. Even if he thinks that, why would he say that because he.

[Kara Swisher]

A jazz hands never met a camera he didn't want to fuck, essentially. And so I think Sam is very naive here because Elon sued him, then unsued him. They had a discussion, they hugged in Montana, as I said, and then he sued him right back. Elon uses litigation, political power, and any means he can for advantage. It is. Sam, I think, is being shockingly naive.

[Scott Galloway]

Here, but, you know, well, he's hoping that people. So Sam is a very bright guy and Sam's. Sam's complexion or posture, I think is very smart and quite frankly, much more mature than many of the tech executives that are 10, 20 years a senior. And that is. He never makes personal attacks.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, he does little under. He does sometimes they're very clever.

[Scott Galloway]

You can pick them up, but they're passive. Passive aggressive.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. There's an. Again, there's a lot of things not to like about him. Like, he puts. He gets that in. So.

[Scott Galloway]

But OpenAI was basically started and Musk wanted out or they couldn't come to an agreement.

[Kara Swisher]

He wanted more and they wouldn't let him have more.

[Scott Galloway]

Right. Musk wanted to control it. So he and Altman said no. And Musk said, I'm taking my ball and going home. Signed airtight legal documents saying he was out and he no longer had ownership or control over the company. And now that it's the leader in Open in AI, he's decided that, oh, I'm angry and I'm going to, you know, I'm going to burn the village.

[Kara Swisher]

To save and I have my own company. I want advantage, which is.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, that I want, you know, I want to kneecap the leader here. And if the shoe were on the other foot, I mean, Musk would be on Twitter every day accusing Altman of pedophilia and saying that this company is anti American, it's been weaponized by Putin. I mean, it would be.

[Kara Swisher]

Yep.

[Scott Galloway]

He would be turning the algorithms of anything he could on this guy.

[Kara Swisher]

I'm excited to find out from Sam why he thinks that I'm going to try to see him soon, because I think he's wrong. I think he's hoping this is the way it's going to go.

[Scott Galloway]

I don't think he thinks that. I think he's trying to. I think he's trying to come off as the good guy.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, maybe so.

[Scott Galloway]

And, and, and hope that politicians and people see OpenAI as the innovator and the leader and, and put some shark repellent around him, say, no, this is bullshit.

[Kara Swisher]

We'll see. I think he kind of had to say that and he doesn't want to seem like a victim of Elon. I think that's smart in that regard. Let's turn to something really I was very shook up by I was I happened to be in New York yesterday and was leaving was right actually in the nearby when this happened. Nothing to do with me but the shocking murder of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson in midtown Manhattan on Wednesday has prompted the killing in of itself was targeted. They don't know by whom but it's prompted a wave of social media reactions including incredibly tasteless jokes Users took jabs at United Healthcare Health Insurance in general. Thompson's company is the largest private health insurer in the US and many in the industry it's been targeted with lawsuits and criticism over allegedly denying claims to maximum maximize profits. Thompson's wife said her husband in getting threats that seemed to be tied to lack of coverage but the behavior of people online was just appalling. Clara Jeffrey from Mother Jones who I think is quite a good journalist. We can all hate insurance companies without cheering the murder of someone or worse trying to monetize content about that murder. Really gross day on the Internet today. And I agreed. I said you're ghouls to do this. And I have to tell you I got a spate of and a reporter who's covering this said Mike hicksonbaugh said you're about to be sworn by bad faith replies from people who want to believe that not celebrating murder makes you a bootlicking apologist for our broken healthcare system. And I have to tell you he was 100% right. I got all these terrible I had to turn off the comments on Blue sky which I never have had to do but they were all really unpleasant. Like it's okay to murder this guy because he murders people and I've gunned them down in cold blood in the street of New York. It was shocking. I don't know how you felt. And again, I get it. People are mad at the healthcare industry but to celebrate this guy's death he's a heinous and the people who did it are really ghouls as far as I'm concerned.

[Scott Galloway]

I think it's all reverse engineers to the same place as most of our problems and that is massive income inequality. And the people let me be clear right up front, this is murder and I hope they find this person, pursue him to the four corners of the earth and bring him to justice. And my heart really does go out to the Family. The people who empathize with this or can not empathize with it can understand why it happened. Are the 41% of US adults that currently have some form of debt caused by their own or a family member's medical or dental bills?

[Kara Swisher]

Absolutely.

[Scott Galloway]

Healthcare expenditures in the U.S. are 12,500 per person, about 4,000 more than any other high income nation with worse outcomes. The number one cause of bankruptcy is medical debt. So what you have is a massive regulatory capture. You have a healthcare system. You and I get the best healthcare in the world because we're wealthy. But that top 10%, the bottom 90, has been optimized for regulatory capture and shareholder value across the medical industrial complex. And the people who've done the worst are the bottom 90 and also, quite frankly, frontline medical workers. But when you find out your wife has lung cancer, that's the bad news. The worst news is it probably means there's a decent chance your family might go bankrupt. And so there is so much despair. And one of the charts circulated, and again, this in no way justifies murder. But one of the charts being circulated shows that the greatest number of claim denials is from, you guessed it, United Healthcare. And if you look at the bullets. When I first heard we do an editorial call to talk about what issues we're going to talk about at Profg, and I said, let's not talk about this because we don't know. As far as we know, this is just an insane person. We just don't know what happened here. Let's not connect it to a broader theme. The thing that made me change my mind and feel like you can connect it to societal issues is the following. The casings on the bullets had inscribed in them deny, deflect and delay. That's the name of a book, the title of a book that's about how insurance companies deny claims. This was clearly. That's not to say this person isn't mentally ill, but this was clearly rooted or inspired by some weird notion of restoration of societal injustice.

[Kara Swisher]

You know, I completely get it. I just, I. There's two different things going on here. Anger over healthcare. And you can either be not positive, you can take positive steps like Mark Cuban is doing with Cost plus or trying to bring down healthcare costs, or attacking these companies in legislatively and with lawsuits and everything else. And I understand this is not the solution.

[Scott Galloway]

I mean, this is not the solution.

[Kara Swisher]

And by the way, these aren't the people who are denied health care. Those people are not on the Twitter and they don't get to go on here and do this. And I just think it brings down, there's no solutions in doing this. And I don't think it makes change. If it made change, I'd be like, like the people in Korea, they went, they scaled the fence and things happened. Right. I get all that stuff. This is just, it's a really ugly part of humanity. And you're right, we have to solve, we absolutely have to solve this healthcare problem that is, that's continuing because this is where it goes. This is exactly where it goes to a murder on the street of New York. And in any case, it's a sick symptom of our society because we don't keep people healthy and we treat them only with shareholder value. You're 100% right. All right, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll talk about Trump's SEC and antitrust picks and take a listener mail question about our own dream cabinet choices. Oh, interesting.

[Scott Galloway]

Support for the show comes from Intuit. If you're marketing to small businesses, then you know that reaching the right companies online can be challenging. Intuit SMB Media Labs is a first of its kind. B2B SMB Ad Network built with first party small business audiences. Now you can connect with the businesses that need your services most. And with Intuit SMB Media Labs, you can reach millions of SMBs effectively and at scale, target by industry size, maturity, location and more across new and existing channels like Social, Programmatic and ctv. Unlock growth opportunities with tailored insights and expand your reach with audiences from Intuit SMB Media Labs. Learn more at Media Labs. Intuit.com.

[Kara Swisher]

Support for this show comes from Crucible Moments, a podcast from Sequoia Capital. It's easy to think that the success of tech giants like YouTube, Dropbox and Reddit was inevitable. I was there and it wasn't. Trust me. One thing these companies have in common is that they all survived the make or break moments that nearly took them down. And each of them had these. On this season of Crucible Moments, you can hear the unvarnished history of some of tech's influential companies told by the founders themselves. Like how Dropbox's disastrous public launch paved the way for the company's viral success. Hosted by Roloff Bota of Sequoia, Crucible Moments provides a behind the scenes look at some of the most defining milestones in tech's history to show the moments of turmoil that can sometimes become great moments of triumph. I have to say, Roloff's a really good vc and I've covered him over the many years and I, I have seen a lot of these companies and it's really great actually to hear from founders of what their problems was. YouTube was very touch and go Reddit. Oh my God. I can't even tell you how many crises they had. Same thing with every company I've ever covered. Tune in to the new season of Crucible moments. Now you can [e-mail] or wherever you listen to podcasts. Support for Pivot comes from Mint Mobile. Friends don't let friends pay too much for their wireless plans. And I think of everyone listening right now as a friend, close friends, I wouldn't go that far. But we're more than acquaintances, which is why I'm going to cut right to the chase. Mint Mobile is offering a deal on cell coverage that is such a no brainer you may want to pause the show and go check it out right now. Here are the details. Right now, when you purchase a new three month phone plan with Mint Mobile, you'll pay just $15 a month. That's it. No strings attached, no sneaky fine print. Just a great deal. All Mint Mobile plans come with high speed data and unlimited talk and text delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. You can even keep your phone, your contacts and your number. You can get this new customer offer and a three month premium wireless plan for just 15 bucks a month by going to mintmobile.com pivot that's mintmobile.com pivot you can cut your wireless bill to 15 bucks a month at mintmobile.com pivot $45 upfront payment required equivalent to $15 per month. New customers on first three month plan only speed slower above 40 gigabytes on unlimited plan. Additional taxes, fees and restrictions apply. See Mint Mobile for detail. Scott we're back with more headlines. In international news, the French government collapsed on Wednesday after parliament voted out to oust Prime Minister Michel Barn and his cabinet. The vote was called after Barnier pushed an unpopular budget proposal without parliamentary approval. Marine Le Pen of France's far right led the opposition against the budget. President Macron will have to appoint a new prime minister and also at the same time, South Korea's president is facing impeachment vote after declaring martial law. That turned rather quickly and after revoking the motion due to political pressure and a lot of people coming down there and climbing the fences. It was really interesting how quickly South Korea turned that around. The people of South Korea. But it's really, there's so Much chaos happening across the world. Any thoughts?

[Scott Galloway]

I think it's linked to the vile messages you're getting. And I know this sounds paranoid, but it doesn't mean I'm wrong. But if I were the head of the GRU or the CCP or the security services and the Islamic regime, I would think, okay, we can't defeat them economically, we can't defeat them militarily. Let's leverage their capex, their hunger for shareholder value over everything, their inability to regulate these platforms, and let's use AI to create millions of bots that get people fighting with one another. And when we see a powerful yet controversial figure who's a journalist who weighs in with an issue, let's just automatically try and start fights and get people hating each other and get people depressed and upset. That's what I would do if I were the head of the gru.

[Kara Swisher]

Now to France. Now to France.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, okay, so what you have across the world is every incumbent party is being kicked out because everybody hates every. No one is satisfied. Everybody is. And it goes back to the same thing. Get every democracy arguing and believing that their country is doing really poorly. If you just read the media, if you just went on social media, you would think that America is a just a fucking mess right now. No, it's not. I mean, we have issues, no doubt about it. But show me almost any special interest group, maybe with the exception of pregnant women and trans people, I would argue gay people, non whites, the poor, almost everybody, is doing markedly better than they were 10, 20, 40, 50 years ago. But you would believe that. But there needs to. Every spark here turns into a five car alarm because they are smarter than us and our superpowers are optimism. But the externality of the Achilles heel of that is that we're easier to fool than convinced. We've been fooled, Kara. I think in 20 years we're going to look back and see the information war of Goebbels, of Nazi Germany, of whether GRU do it. And I think they're going to look at America and how these platforms were weaponized to get us hating each other, such that we no longer talked to our neighbors, we no longer went on dates, we hated every incumbent person in power thinking that they were the. They were the problem. And almost every Western nation has seen turnover in their leadership. Does that mean they're all bad or is something else going on? And it's the same thing.

[Kara Swisher]

I was heartened by South Korea, how quickly they turned that around, you know?

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, but he's out. He's out.

[Kara Swisher]

He's out. That's right, he's out. But he really made a rather.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, that was stupid. That was like one of the most biggest self inflicted declaring martial law in a democracy. But I just hope Trump isn't taking notes.

[Kara Swisher]

I don't think he is. I think he's taking notes like what happened in South Korea could happen to him. Right. He doesn't have.

[Scott Galloway]

Good point.

[Kara Swisher]

By the way, there was another Democrat that won a seat in California. Oh, 200 votes. It was just 200 votes. It was crazy.

[Scott Galloway]

Democrat.

[Kara Swisher]

A Democrat won in California and it flipped the seat. So now Congress is so close. It's crazy. And because Trump has appointed several congresspeople, they have like almost one or two scooch rooms. So if you know any single congressman can overturn anything in the Republican side. So it's really, we have to get along. Literally no one's going to get anything done if we don't get along in some fashion or find compromise. So I would agree with you.

[Scott Galloway]

It's really national service, final five voting, ranked choice voting. All of us have a personal obligation to take the heat down. I mean there's just a lot. And also wake up our platforms, our media. Two thirds of Americans get their news from social media. It has been weaponized. This is no different than if the Kremlin had controlled CBS, ABC and NBC in the 60s. And yet we've decided to let it happen.

[Kara Swisher]

Yep. I agree. I agree. So in any case, no moon's coming between us. Scott, just so you know, I'm going to make sure to make sure.

[Scott Galloway]

No, we have true dysfunction. We don't. It's not the GRU or the CCP coming between us.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, it's true. But no one's going to do it. Just us. We're going to, we're going to make ourselves hate each other.

[Scott Galloway]

By the way, I, I am absolutely exhausted from my French self defense class. I have never run so far in my life. World War A little World War II surrender humor there.

[Kara Swisher]

Anyways, I know, don't insult. I'm not going to let you back in. Pete Hegseth is campaigning to keep his spot as Pickford Defense Secretary. When Trump report he considers replacing with Ron Desantis who seems very qual qualified in comparison.

[Scott Galloway]

Isn't that funny?

[Kara Swisher]

I know. And let me just add some more over at the sec. Trump has nominated Paul Atkins as chairman. I think people feel pretty good about that. Adkins was an SEC commissioner under President George Bush and his favorite of crypto community. The price of Bitcoin hit $100,000 for the first time Wednesday. And lastly, the Justice Department. Trump had nominated Gail Slater as the head of the antitrust division. Slater was policy advisor for vice president like J.D. vance, and served as a tech policy advisor at the National Economic Council during Trump's first term. I'm not hearing bad things about her. I think she's quite, quite anti tech, actually. And although she's worked for some tech companies, I think they all have. So look, these other ones seem fine and there's several fines and then you have. They throw out Peter Navarro and, you know, crazy fine, fine, fine, crazy fine, fine, fine. Pete Hegseth. Wow, what a. What a media story. And he's out.

[Scott Galloway]

This has just gotten too far. When his mom goes on Fox to say she didn't mean it and that he had a nonprofit that he was bilking for his own personal expenses. When he showed up, he was drunk. Two of them hitting on people. I mean, he's toast. There are already five Republican senators that have said they're concerned, which means basically, don't make me vote. No resign. I bet he's out on the next.

[Kara Swisher]

I think Lindsey Graham has flip flopped again. He was negative and now he's. But you know.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, because Trump called him and said, I'll tell you when to be negative. Ease out in the next 2440 hours. The good news is, with respect to the SEC pick, I do think something rational comes over, washes over Trump when it comes to these picks. And then you can't say that about Peter Navarro. Peter Navarro struck me as a total fucking nut. But anyways, the sec, I think, is. It's an important position. This guy seems very credible to me. Also, you know, Governor DeSantis, I'm a resident of Florida. I don't like his policies.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, he can run things. I have.

[Scott Galloway]

He's a competent individual. And also the people I know who work with Governor DeSantis have always said he's very data driven. He was a lawyer for the Navy. He's qualified.

[Kara Swisher]

And no, he handled the hurricane. I'm not a favorite. The pudding fingers is not my favorite, but he ran. Handled the hurricane fine. And I mean, the comparison to this guy, it's like the lowest of bars, this guy.

[Scott Galloway]

He's qualified.

[Kara Swisher]

He's qualified. He's strongly qualified.

[Scott Galloway]

What do you think of Senator Ernst? I don't know much about her.

[Kara Swisher]

I think she's great. I think she's really interesting. I don't agree with her on tons of stuff, but I think she's trying very hard because she doesn't want to get primary necessarily. And at the same time, I don't think anyone blames her for being like Pete Hegseth, get the fuck out of my office and don't grab my boobs. Right? You know, that kind of thing. She served and of course she had issues of sexual harassment in the military, served in combat, really, you know, deserves to be heard on this one. And whatever she wants is what should happen. I know her name was bandied about for that job, but I think it's Desantis is the one because he terms out and then he's got. There's not really a lot he could run for office to try to take over for Trump from the Defense Department. I don't know my favorite, I have to say it has unleashed an incredible series of. Also, Pete has said, letting your mommy after insulting and sexually harassing women, letting your mommy fix your problem is really something else. And this is my favorite one. I'll stop drinking if you let me run. The Pentagon is maybe the most alcoholic thing anyone has ever said. That's what he told people. He'd stop drinking. I mean, get some help.

[Scott Galloway]

Anyone in recovery, anyone who knows anything about addiction says, okay, first you gotta fix the underlying problem. And saying you're gonna quit if means you haven't even acknowledged you have a problem. You know, if he'd said, I've struggled and I've quit, and with the help of God and my wife, you know, I'm gonna. But saying, give me this, don't stop drinking. I mean, you know, it was the wrong day for me to give up meth. I mean.

[Kara Swisher]

That was. I can't believe some of the senators like, uh huh, uh huh. Oh, well then, well then actually, here's my winner now. That's not my winner. Has anyone checked to see whether Hegseth is actually Kavanaugh's drinking buddy Squeeze? I love how they mix the cap because he said on Megyn Kelly, Pete, whatever the heck said, bad Pete said he was. He was Kavanaugh. By the way, Megan Kelly did a terrible job of that interview. Oh, really? You're not. You're not an alcoholic. You seem like one. Like, I don't have a drinking problem. Why did you fall like. He was apparently at Fox News. He was apparently had to be carried out of a work event. Like, carried out. How drunk do you have to be? Have you been carried out of anything?

[Scott Galloway]

No, I think one of the problems that I drink, one of the downsides is it a downside of me drinking a lot is. I'm a better version of me. A little fucked up. Oh, I'm friendly, I'm nice, I'm smart. I just get. I just get. I'm. I'm just a better version of me. People I remember in. In college, in the fraternity, occasionally, not often, but occasionally, guys would get drunk and they get violent or mean, and you immediately, you know, immediately, you're like, memo to self, stay away from this person. I think how people behave when inebriated and how they treat their pets or looking glasses into their souls, and you can really tell a lot by a person by the way they act after a few drinks, because they often are.

[Kara Swisher]

Better versions a version of themselves. One of the expressions that was used, I think, is the drunk. Does the drunk agree with the sober? Right? Is it. Is it varied? If you change it, it's always. Some women behave like this, but it's always the man, the bad guy that suddenly comes out.

[Scott Galloway]

Interestingly, some women get very mean on alcohol.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, they do. I know they do.

[Scott Galloway]

Just try, Jen. There's a word for it, Jen.

[Kara Swisher]

I get it. I get it. Tequila makes her clothes fall off. I get that. That's a great song, by the way. One of the things that Louis told me, we were talking about, I saw him in New York this week, and he didn't know a lot about it, but he was sort of aware of it. And I said, well, this guy, you know, probably blames drinking on his sexual harassment that happens in the wake of that. And he said, I've been blackout drunk, and I've never done that. Like, he was like, so sensible. He's like, you don't. You don't have to behave like that just because you're drinking or blame drinking for your bad behavior. It is you at your heart. I think that's correct. Anyway, Pete, good knowing you. I would be shocked if he held on. Both of us would be shocked. Friday is when you take the trash out, and that's when he's going, that's tomorrow.

[Scott Galloway]

And when you say he takes the trash out, are you saying.

[Kara Swisher]

Because that's an expression in Washington.

[Scott Galloway]

But what. I thought there was a double meaning there. And that is they released bad news on Fridays because it doesn't get as much coverage.

[Kara Swisher]

That too. Yeah. That's. That this is going to. That's what they're going to do.

[Scott Galloway]

I bet it happens.

[Kara Swisher]

And they'll probably combine it with something else. They'll probably combine it with something else anyway, very quickly. Elon Musk might be getting his Tesla page package reinstated after the Delaware judge her previous. She reaffirmed her previous ruling in her 103 page opinion. I love this judge. In Delaware, Judge Kathleen McCormick says Tesla's lawyer had no grounds to reverse her January ruling based on evidence they created after trial. The pay package was initially worth more than $50 billion. It's now worth 100 billion thanks to Tesla's share price soaring in recent weeks. Tesla said it will appeal the decision and some experts suggest they might try to reconstitute the package and get approval. In Texas. Of course, Elon's favorite judge shopping after the ruling. Elon, of course attacked. Note to Sam Altman attacked Judge McCormick, calling her a radical far left activist cosplaying as a judge. Oh, she is not. She's not. It's. But I'm just saying this. Get ready, Sam, for Elon's attacks on you, which they are. He's already been doing so. Any thoughts?

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, I think she got it wrong and I think she's eventually going to get his money.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, he is going to get his money. I do too. I think so too.

[Scott Galloway]

The word the judge kept using was fair. And if you want to talk about CEO compensation, come over and we'll smoke cigarettes and eat ice cream and talk about fair. I think the board got it wrong. But the way corporate governance works in a corporation is that the shareholders nominate and elect directors and the directors get to decide side CEO compensation. And this is outrageous. I think that no person should be worth a third of a trillion dollars. I think power corrupts and absolute power absolutely corrupts. But if you have a capitalist society, the way it works is the board gets to decide compensation. They decided it and the shareholders effectively approved it. And so when judges start saying what type of compensation is fair or not fair, I believe it's government overreach. So as ridiculous as this is, I think the board got it wrong. The way I think you handle this is through a more progressive tax policy. I think anyone making over a billion dollars should pay an alternative minimum tax of 80%. But the moment judges start talking about what is fair or not fair in compensation, I just think it's government overreach. I think she got this wrong.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, well, she's reacting to a shareholder lawsuit too, at the same time. Right.

[Scott Galloway]

So of a minority of shareholders. Yeah, the majority of shareholders have approved this pay package.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, it's true. He'll probably get it. He'll get it.

[Scott Galloway]

If you own a building and you pay the maintenance people or the person running the building, an outrageous amount of money. That's what you get to do if you own the building. And the majority, the owners of this company have decided he's going to get.

[Kara Swisher]

A. I get it.

[Scott Galloway]

And also, I hate defending Elon Musk, but when they awarded the options package, it was worth single digit billions. So in the analogy I would use is that if they can't. If Tim Cook.

[Kara Swisher]

I think it was always 40 billion. I think it was always 40 billion.

[Scott Galloway]

But go ahead, go ahead anyways. If Tim Cook went to his biggest shareholders and said, we're worth 3 trillion, I think I can make this company worth 20 trillion. But in order to do that, and I'm the singular person that can do this, I want a trillion dollars. I think at that moment a majority of shareholders might go, a trillion dollars is ridiculous. But sure, if you can make this thing worth 20, we'll give you a trillion. And that's kind of what he did here. So, again, I think fairness and the support of the greatest innovation in history, the American middle class, is through a progressive tax structure. But a key component of capitalism is the owners of an asset get to decide what to do with it, including the compensation.

[Kara Swisher]

Yep, that's what I said. Someone was complaining about Patrick Soong over at the LA Times. Like, he owns it. I don't know what to tell you. He can put Scott Jennings, that smarmy, you know, commentator on his thing if he wants. He can do it if he wants. Same thing with Jeff Bezos. Honestly, it's still untoward. And this board, let's just reiterate, this board is such a fall over for Elon board. They're particularly in the tank because they also make a lot of money from him.

[Scott Galloway]

So they've made tens, if not hundreds of millions of dollars for just nodding their head and saying, he's great.

[Kara Swisher]

Not a good board. Not a great board. If in the way I think of boards, which should be a little less slavish. Anyway, he's made him a lot of money. So there you have it. Okay, Scott, let's pivot to a listener question. The question comes from David. Let's listen. I've listened to the last few podcasts in which both of you discussed the various nominees Trump has put forward for cabinet and other important administration positions. My question for each of you has two parts.

[Scott Galloway]

Which positions do each of you consider the most important positions and why?

[Kara Swisher]

And second, if you were president, who.

[Scott Galloway]

Would you nominate for the most important.

[Kara Swisher]

Positions in your administration and why?

[Scott Galloway]

Thanks. My name is David.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, that's interesting. That's a great question. I'll start. I think the Secretary of Defense is critically important. The Attorney General is critically important and obviously the Treasury Secretary. So if I was President Trump or if I'm me, if I'm me, I would have picked different. I probably would have picked Jamie Dimon for the treasury job for the head of the Defense Department. That would be interesting. I'd have to think maybe. Oh God. I wouldn't say Pete Buttigieg, but someone who served and who understands how to run big systems. There's lots of people like that. Certainly not. Not Pete Hegseth by any means. I could run it better than him. And then the third Attorney General, someone you know, not quite as partisan and who didn't deny the election like Pam Bondi. I do think she actually has qualifications. There's no question she ran a big important state's hsag. She knows her way around a courtroom as they say. But I think those are the most important. But one of the ones as we're just talking about this United Healthcare thing is the Health and Human Services director. I would make that Mark Cuban, you know, or someone like that to you need to facilitate change in how health care goes in this country very drastically and how we eat and the chemicals that are in our system. I completely agree with that. But this friggin nut job RFK Jr. Who now looks good next to these other people is a disaster especially around vaccines and everything else. So someone who respects science. I would say Mark Cuban for that job. Your turn, Scott.

[Scott Galloway]

I would go I like the whole cable news as a cabinet strategy. I'd have Dana Bash. I'd have. Except I'd go another cable network. I think the people at CNN are so impressive. I think it should be President Dana Bash. Her vice president is Anderson Cooper and we laugh. But these people would be a hell of a lot more competent than some of the people he's proposing now. Peter Hegseth and Peter Navarro. Give me a fucking break. Or Cash Patel. This Michael Smerkanisch I'd like to be Secretary of Commerce. I'd like to see. There's so many outstanding. I'd love to see Michael Bennett as Secretary of Education. I think Vivek Murthy as Head of Health and Human Services. I think he is the most consequential Surgeon General in history. Bringing up loneliness and the stress on parents. There's a ton of fantastic oh, I would put together the hottest and most competent cabinet in history and I'd give AOC a job just cause she's ridiculously fucking hot. But also important again, it's important to have good looking people. Okay, But Ro Khanna would have a spot in there, I think. Amy Klobuchar I put at the head of the FTC or the doj. Is she a lawyer?

[Kara Swisher]

Yes, yes, yes, yes. She wrote that big giant antitrust book, remember? She's a good lawyer.

[Scott Galloway]

She's a lawyer. She's.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, she'd be a good ag. Oh, yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

She's a fucking gangster. She's not afraid of anybody. Yeah, I would have a ton of. I could. Oh, my God. Give me the chessboard. I will put the pieces in the right place.

[Kara Swisher]

What would we be. What would be our job if you had to pick one of.

[Scott Galloway]

We do it exactly what we're doing right now. Because our lives are really nice.

[Kara Swisher]

I understand, but if you had to take a cab, they said here, Scott, you have to take one cabinet job. You don't have a choice.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, easy. I'd want to be Secretary of Education.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, wow, Interesting.

[Scott Galloway]

Easy.

[Kara Swisher]

What would you guess? I would want to be head of the CIA. That's right. That's right, my friend. That's correct. I would spy on you.

[Scott Galloway]

You do spy on me. You fucking text me at three in the morning. You know what I'm doing at all moments.

[Kara Swisher]

I do know what you're doing at all moments. I've got to keep track of you because you're up to things. Last night I was texting a variety of people. I'm not going to say who, but well known people. And I was thinking, what is Scott up to? I feel like Scott's up to something right now. I don't know why, but I thought, is he up to something?

[Scott Galloway]

I was eating alone in the Cotswolds after taking an edible and listening to Tom Petty and then taking my dogs for a long walk at night.

[Kara Swisher]

All right, okay. Well, I didn't know that, but for a second I was like, what is he up to? What little machinations is he up to? By the way, your other girlfriend, your side piece, Jessica. Jess Tarlov texted me. She's gonna. The hotter younger woman, the hotter younger version of me. She was gonna come to this dinner in New York when she couldn't, but she's gonna take my mom to see the Five and I have to go.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, that'll be great. That'll be great.

[Kara Swisher]

Will you come with me?

[Scott Galloway]

No way. 100% no. No. Oh, I'd also give. Speaking of Fox, I'd give Neil Cavuto a position I Like him.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. Okay.

[Scott Galloway]

I'd give Cavuto a position. God, this would be fun.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, you left out Stephanie rule. I can't believe it. She's gonna kill us. What would you give her?

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, she'd be ambassador to our most important. Like, I'd make her ambassador to. I just. Like, I'd want her to be an ambassador to France because she would throw amazing parties at the residence in Paris.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, we could go.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, no, she should be ambassador.

[Kara Swisher]

She could be like Kerry Russell on.

[Scott Galloway]

The Diplomat, and she's got great style. I mean, she. Ambassador to France. That's an easy one. All right.

[Kara Swisher]

Ambassador to France. Okay. All right. There, we got it. Thank you. David, we've made.

[Scott Galloway]

I need you to be president so we can do this.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, my God, it would be so good.

[Scott Galloway]

I'll be the puppet master. I'll tell you exactly what to say, what to do. And you can just be so.

[Kara Swisher]

You're like Steve Bannon.

[Scott Galloway]

I get that a lot.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

This will be fun. We'd be good at this.

[Kara Swisher]

Seriously. I can't believe I'm more qualified to be the Secretary of Defense than Pete Hegseth, but it's true, and so are you. All right, for the rest of you listeners, it's time for this week's Threads poll. Do you agree with Bezos and Altman? Will Trump and Elon not be as bad as we think? Okay. Visit us on Threads at Pivot podcast. Official to vote.

[Scott Galloway]

I'm kind of. I gotta admit it. I'm coming out of the closet. As someone who's kind of excited about doge. I don't like those guys, but I'm curious to see what they come up with.

[Kara Swisher]

Do you know what? It would be great. Except.

[Scott Galloway]

Except them. No.

[Kara Swisher]

They never met a camera they didn't want to fuck. And it's like, they do. They drop stupid things like the Rivian things. This is a serious topic of reforming government. But they're doing it in the typical way of. Look at the $600 toilet. Like, that's not. It's fine to do those things, but creating outrages? Let's make it more efficient again. I had a great discussion with Marc Benioff about this. The efficienc using AI, talking about it, honestly, getting along. If we did that, I would embrace it, because government waste and fraud and everything else, of course, but government is not. You know who wrote a great piece was Adam Leshinsky in the Washington Post. I would turn your attention to that piece, because he really did lay it out. He's like sometimes to help the whole republic is not to be efficient or some things don't work. And to just needlessly attack. Elon's needlessly attacking individual government employees because he thinks it's fun. Funny.

[Scott Galloway]

That's. That's unforgivable. Naming people. That's dumb.

[Kara Swisher]

He's. It's all about hate. It's all about government. Sucks. I think. If you're serious, you two, stop being such jazz hands. Look at me bullshit. Like, let's get. And I get. There's part of that is important, but it's all through the negative lens. Instead of. Again, I point to someone like Mark Cuban. The positive lens. What can we do to make this better and not demonize everybody? And a lot of government employees are great employees and they do not deserve this kind of bullshit. Even if. If we should have a more efficient government, I would agree. I would be on their team. Except they're such assholes. I don't want to be on their team.

[Scott Galloway]

I'm going to hold my judgment for the recommendations. There's just some interesting. It's catalyzing an interesting dialogue. We have five air forces in the military. Do we need five air force. I mean, there's just some interesting conversations here.

[Kara Swisher]

I wish they would go after the military. When they started to do that, everyone was like, yeah. Oh, and I was pleased with that. And so was Bernie Sanders anyway. And I love the military. I think it's important. But everything could be made more efficient. It's just how you do it and how you treat people when you're doing it. It's like laying people off. Neon laid people off with cruelty and needless cruelty. And he didn't have to. You could lay people off and so anyway, maybe you could get nicer, boys, but doubtful considering who you are. If you got a question of your own that you'd like answered, send it our way. Go to nymag.com pivot to submit a question for the show or call 85551 pivot. A big thanks to everyone who had Pivot on their Spotify wrapped this year. Be sure to tag us on social media when you share your list. Scott, what was your. Did you look at your rap? What was it?

[Scott Galloway]

My rap?

[Kara Swisher]

I think this is a cool thing. And they did an AI movie on Spotify. You know all the music you listen to.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, yeah. I keep getting forwarded people who say that we're in one of our top pods.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So what did you look at yours or not?

[Scott Galloway]

I haven't yet, no.

[Kara Swisher]

Can you guess who my top artist was?

[Scott Galloway]

Taylor Swift.

[Kara Swisher]

Yes. And she was everybody's top artist.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, my rapped. I just pulled it up. Do you want to hear mine? Okay, hold on.

[Kara Swisher]

Okay. What is it? Yeah, go ahead, tell us.

[Scott Galloway]

All right, top artists. Number one, Electric Light Orchestra. Number two, Calvin Harris. Number three, Fleetwood Mac. Number four, find Young Cannibals. Number five, Super Tramp. Your top song.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, you're living in the 80s and 90s, Scott.

[Scott Galloway]

Wouldn't you. Did you. Have you seen pictures of me in the 80s? Seriously, that should work.

[Kara Swisher]

You've been putting out social media things of very lovely songs, by the way. I like them a lot.

[Scott Galloway]

That's how I relax is I pretend I'm just out. I'm in my junior year at ucla.

[Kara Swisher]

Right.

[Scott Galloway]

And anyways, my top songs were the safety dance. Men Without Hats. That's a great one. Enola Gay. Enola Gay. But I think that's Orchestral maneuvers In the dark you get oh, you get what you want by the New Radicals. She Drives me crazy Again. The fine Young Cannibals. And Give a little bit by Super Tramp. I'm shocked. That Don't Bring me Down. Or even the Losers by Tom Petty.

[Kara Swisher]

Can't believe. Electric Light Orchestra. Mr. Blue Sky.

[Scott Galloway]

Former London Symphony musician who kept seeing each other in studios and doing serial commercials and said, let's start a rock band.

[Kara Swisher]

1979 hard. Highest charting hit in the United States was Don't Bring Me Down.

[Scott Galloway]

Another example of how the UK dominates ip. Name a great American band and I can name you five UK bands. And yet all the money is made in the US anyways. The original AI they invented and we monetize it.

[Kara Swisher]

So question. Not Taylor Swift is your favorite? She was. Everybody else.

[Scott Galloway]

No Taylor. Yeah. No, I'm stuck in the 80s.

[Kara Swisher]

Okay. Okay, you are. It was. That's lovely. Electric Light Orchestra. I haven't thought of them in a hundred years. Anyway, Scott, one more quick break. We'll be back for predictions.

[Scott Galloway]

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[Kara Swisher]

Okay, Scott, don't bring me down. Let's hear a prediction.

[Scott Galloway]

I've been taking these ridiculously Long walks with my dogs. I have weird predictions. The first is sort of a serious one. I think that we're so focused on some of the stuff domestically that the biggest news are usually things we're not thinking about. I think you're going to see an uprising in the beginning of potentially what is a revolution in Iran. Iran's proxies, of which they've invested tens of billions of dollars over the last couple decades. The Houthis, Hezbollah, Hamas, and now Syria, which is in the midst of its own uprising, has essentially had their hands cut off. And I think a lot of the people within Iran. You shouldn't say Iran when you're talking about the leadership there. You should talk about the Islamic regime or the Islamic Republic, because the Iranian people, in my view, this is a leadership that is corrupt. Incredibly, I think the Ayatollah is sitting on a house of cards right now, or Khomeini, I should say. And I think that the Bashar Al Assad's weakness, the second largest city, Aleppo, has been taken by rebels or HTs. I don't know how to pronounce his name, but I think effectively Iran, Iran is more vulnerable right now than they have been in a couple decades. And I imagine adversarial parties within the country sense that and will strike soon. So 2025, I think the biggest or one of the biggest news stories will be an uprising in Iran based on.

[Kara Swisher]

It would be great if an incumbent lost power in that regard. Speaking of incumbents.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, yeah.

[Kara Swisher]

You know, we were talking about incumbents losing power across the globe.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, I mean, Hamas has the support of the Palestinian people. The Islamic regime does not. And Iran. And I think that all of their proxies being weakened and also all of their buffer states. Iranian air defenses are really vulnerable right now. Israel, it's really weird. The Middle east is being dictated by three non Arab nations. It's really Iran, Israel, and you could argue Turkey right now, which is kind of filling that vacuum. And Assad was going to turn to Russia. Russia has its own issues in Ukraine. I think all of the cards, all of the. The tea leaves are turning up really bad for Iran right now. And I think domestic rebel forces or people who want to overthrow this regime, which I think the west would like to see, probably feel more jonesed up and confident right now than they've been in a while. That's a serious prediction. I have a less serious prediction.

[Kara Swisher]

All right, okay. Because Scott Zakaria. We have Scott Zakaria going on here. Go ahead, go ahead.

[Scott Galloway]

I'm Dumb. It doesn't mean I'm wrong. Oh, Fareed Zakaria, Secretary of State. Boom. I'm so good at this.

[Kara Swisher]

Okay, all right, move along.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, that guy's a genius.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, sort of.

[Scott Galloway]

I don't care. That guy's a genius. Surround him with a few buffers, fine. But that guy, that guy's a clear blue flame thinker. Kind of nice man too.

[Kara Swisher]

Anyway, not every time. Go ahead.

[Scott Galloway]

Who is every time? Anyway, so my second one is a little bit more, I don't know, trivial, but equally profound. And that is, I think that you're going to see a strike, another strike, but I think it's going to be by the world's top football players. And that is because of the outrageous explosion in value of these teams. A lot of the owners are trying to monetize it and meet the demand of the sport, which is growing exponentially by creating more fixtures and more international competitions. And there's this weird dynamic in football where a 22 year old can basically play every fucking day, but by the time you're 26 or 28, which is what the best players in the world, when they peak, they're getting fed up and they're getting injured and they are playing around the calendar. And I think that that's hit a bit of a breaking point because the best players in the world are the ones with the most demands on them physically. And I think with the announcement, like FIFA, which has always been a tad corrupt, if TAD means a lot, has just announced another tournament, another fixture, I think it's at a breaking point and you're going to see the best players in the world decide we've had enough and go on strike anyways.

[Kara Swisher]

Although getting paid. You saw Larry Ellison's wife, who no one knew she had gotten married, she was a University of Michigan, grabbed that player from Louisiana, everyone in Louisiana was crying And Larry paid $12 million to get this call. I like them getting paid. I don't know. I like college students getting paid.

[Scott Galloway]

It is ridiculous. This notion that somehow the NC2A, which pays themselves a shit ton of money and then wraps himself in some sort of bullshit purity of college athletics, figures out a way to pick to pay the 55 year old white guy on the court. 3 million a year, but all the black kids on the court. No, no, it's the purity of the sport. It is. I mean, enough already. Absolutely. Let these kids get paid.

[Kara Swisher]

12 million bucks. I love that.

[Scott Galloway]

Good for him, man.

[Kara Swisher]

And Larry Ellison, just like here she the pe. Alex called me like beyond belief excited. And of course someone from Louisiana was like, how dare they do that? I'm like what are you talking about? He deserved the money.

[Scott Galloway]

Free market.

[Kara Swisher]

Anyway, good predictions elsewhere in the Scott and Kara universe. This week on Profg Markets, Scott spoke with Michael say Miller. Great idea. The founder and executive chairman and perfectly timed of MicroStrategy to discuss MicroStrategy's decision to become a bitcoin treasury and why it emerged as the best performing stock in the S&P 500 this year. Let's listen.

[Scott Galloway]

Volatility is fire. If you're a normie, you run away from fire. If you're Henry Ford, you put the fire into an engine, you put it.

[Kara Swisher]

In a horseless carriage and you create an automobile and now people can go.

[Scott Galloway]

And then you put it it into a plane and a train, you see? So engineers are putting volatile, you know.

[Kara Swisher]

You'Re a nuclear reactor in the spaceship.

[Scott Galloway]

It'S scary in the submarine. But bitcoin is like the financial fuel.

[Kara Swisher]

These things are crypto reactors. It's a technically better way to do this. And it's the volatility that's actually the most motor that's driving the portfolio or the treasury forward. That was really good. I liked it. I really enjoyed listening to it. I was going to talk to him.

[Scott Galloway]

The number one, the best performing stock in the S And P. Number two's Nvidia number one, MicroStrategy. I mean this guy took a business intelligence firm that was worth, I don't know, a couple billion dollars and he levered up the company to buy bitcoin and then now he's just, he's just issued zero coupon bonds which means he doesn't have to pay interest to buy even more. And his stock is up sevenfold this year. And you listen to this guy speak. I'm skeptical of the whole space. I think partly one, because I've missed out on the bull run and two, I don't like the idea of the de dollarization and replacing the dollar. I think it's like the kind of invisible aircraft carry for us dangerous. And also I do think there's some real downsides that bitcoin maximalists including Michael don't acknowledge in terms of the danger of it funding. I think it's good occasionally where we see the flows of power and money. But anyways. But I've known Michael for 20 years. The thing I like about him and he is the voice the space needs because he's not only a very effective cheerleader evangelist, whatever you want to Call it advocate. I have known him for a couple decades. He's a nice man. And he never. He doesn't start calling you a pedophile if you're not a bitcoin maximalist like the rest of the bitcoin Taliban or the crypto Taliban. He's not in jail. He's actually quite. I've known him long enough to say this about him. He's a generous, nice man. That's the voice they need right now because the other folks hyping this thing or evangelizing it are not nice people. Or they generally don't acquit themselves. Well, you either sign up for their religion or you're an apostate. So anyways, but the conversation, it's already, I think, our most downloaded Pod so far this year. But this guy you want to talk about balls of steel, he's kind of the Elon Musk we want. He took this enormous risk that paid off enormously, but he didn't start accusing people of sex crimes along the way.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, that's the lowest bar, but yes, indeed. It was a great. I was thrilled that you interviewed him. It was great. I recommend everyone listen to it. It was terrific. I listened to it yesterday. Okay, Scott, that's the show. We'll be back on Tuesday with more Pivot. Please read us out.

[Scott Galloway]

Today's show was produced by Lara Naman, Zoe Marcus and Taylor Griffin. Ernie Andertot entered new this episode. Thanks also to Drew Burroughs, Mia Saverio and Dan Schulon. Nishat Kirwat is Fox Media's executive producer of audio. Make sure you're subscribed to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the [e-mail] pod we'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. This.