Cheaper Teslas, OpenAI’s Cash Burn, and Apple’s CEO Succession Plans

Summary

Pivot Podcast Summary

Episode: Cheaper Teslas, OpenAI’s Cash Burn, and Apple’s CEO Succession Plans
Hosts: Kara Swisher & Scott Galloway
Date: October 10, 2025

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Overview

In this episode, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway dive into the latest in tech and business news with their trademark mix of sharp analysis, banter, and candid opinion. The show covers Tesla’s unveiling of cheaper models, the financial machinations and risks of the AI bubble (especially OpenAI’s dizzying cash burn), Apple’s emerging CEO succession plan, and a whirlwind of stories around U.S. politics, gold’s rise, IPO drama, and more. Along the way, both hosts inject personal stories and observations about the current political climate, media, and their own lives.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Political Banter: The Democratic Presidential Field (00:55–08:47)

• Kara’s Interview with Kamala Harris: Kara hints at wanting to push the conversation "forward," focusing on Harris's future, not relitigating Biden drama.
  • “I want to spin it forward … I think she wants to run for president. That's my impression.” — Kara (02:20)
• Scott’s Political ‘Lexist’ Theory: Predicts Democrats will once again choose a "tall, white, straight male," highlighting the party’s hesitation for bigger change.
  • “The only thing I know is the Democrats are going to nominate a white heterosexual male over six feet tall. Full stop.” — Scott (03:09)
• Dollywood as Metaphor for America: Kara relates her Dollywood visit—how diverse groups coexisted, united by love for Dolly—and contrasts it with polarization outside the gates.
  • “I wish the world was Dollywood because everyone was getting along.” — Kara (06:06)

2. Tesla's "Cheaper" Models & Industry Pressure (08:49–16:35)

• New Tesla Models Disappoint: Instead of innovation (like the long-teased Roadster), Tesla delivered less expensive but stripped-down versions of its cars.
  • Price drops offset lost EV tax credits, but overall value is down—customers are “paying more for less.”
  • “Less for more ... Tesla customers are paying more for less.” — Scott (09:51)
• Global Competition Surge: Chinese EV makers, especially BYD, are undercutting Tesla massively. The BYD Seagull in China costs under $8K.
• Stock as Meme, Not Fundamentals:
  • Despite sagging US market share and competition, the stock is up—Scott calls it a "meme stock."
  • “Right now it's a meme stock.” — Scott (11:46)
• Distraction via Robots & AI: Musk’s big AI robot promises shelved, seemingly as an attempt to keep up valuation hype.
  • “He’s just making it up ... he’s just like throwing shit out there.” — Kara & Scott (14:14)
• What Actually Works at Musk’s Companies: Kara notes Starlink has legitimate product promise (potential telco disruption)—but lament’s Musk’s lack of focus on real innovation.

3. OpenAI’s Cash Burn & the AI Bubble (16:35–27:22)

• Circular Investing and Propping Each Other Up: OpenAI has reserved or spent hundreds of billions on deals with Nvidia, Oracle, AMD—but much of this money is in circular investments.
  • “It feels very AOL Purchase Pro circa... a small network of companies pouring money in each other’s coffers, fueling an AI bubble.” — Kara (16:35)
  • Notable Term: “Round tripping” or “circle jerk” to describe these incestuous deals.
• Bubble Math: Scott details how Nvidia’s investments in OpenAI come back via chip purchases—stocks can go up on “wildly accretive” paper math, but risk massive collapse when music stops.
  • “When the music stops ... a dozen chairs get taken away.” — Scott (19:26)
• Macro View: The American economy—and even the country’s political climate—are massively dependent on the ongoing AI boom.
  • “America right now is a giant bet on AI ... the valuations of AI are the reason that Trump has the cloud cover to move towards fascism.” — Scott (21:06)
• Risks and Tipping Point: If companies realize the ROI on AI isn’t materializing and pull back, Nvidia (and the bubble) could crash out.
  • “Nvidia is the domino.” — Kara (25:42)
• Lesson from History: The AI climb mimics late-90s tech run-ups—markets can remain irrational longer than expected.

4. Gold’s Rise, Market Anxiety, and Personal Anecdotes (29:59–38:41)

• Safe Haven Trading: Gold’s jump above $4,000 signals declining global faith in the US dollar; central banks are shifting reserves.
  • “The run up in gold is essentially an indictment against the US because gold is sort of... people no longer have as much faith in the dollar.” — Scott (37:21)
• Scott’s Epic Gold Belt Story: A digression on inheritance, life, and a $200K gold coin belt, blending humor and pathos, illustrated with Kara’s Jennifer Coolidge comparison.
  • “Two years later, I found out my friend's 13-year-old was wearing a $200,000 belt to school every day.” — Scott (35:53)
• Underlying Point: Gold's price isn't just about "fear," but about eroding trust in US policy and markets.

5. Apple’s CEO Succession (40:27–46:13)

• Cook's Likely Departure: Tim Cook may soon step down, with engineering chief John Ternus emerging as favorite to replace him.
  • “The biggest lesson... Fucking leave. You are too fucking old. Leave.” — Scott (41:01)
• Contrast to Other Companies: Applauds Apple’s leadership bench development and Cook’s lack of ego; slams Disney and Congress for failing to gracefully step aside.
  • “If you reverse engineer the world’s biggest problems, they reverse engineer to some dude who won’t fucking leave.” — Scott (41:33)
• Boardroom Dynamics: Scott critiques how board culture too often favors status quo and personal ties over what’s best for the company.

6. The Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac IPO and Political Patronage (49:02–53:14)

• Big Banks' Lobbying: Major US banks are jockeying to underwrite the largest government IPO ever—Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac—a move the hosts argue should be insulated from White House influence.
  • “The President shouldn't be influencing these decisions because it creates an unfair market … an ecosystem that withers away tomorrow.” — Scott (52:38)
• Autocracy Warning: The discussion links White House favoritism in business to the broader risks of autocratic governance.

7. US Politics & Military Deployments (53:14–59:16)

• National Guard in Cities: Ongoing unease over the deployment of National Guard troops and federal plans to "restore order."
• Marketing of Fear: Scott warns of “mind control” through media, profit-seeking, and the politics of scapegoating immigrants.
  • “We’re going to be all … horrified when we realize how much mind control ... they've taken us to really ugly places.” — Scott (54:25)
• Public Opposition: Polls show roughly half the public opposes military deployments in US cities—but apathy, not outrage, prevails.
• Slow Burn: Kara argues that action or backlash is likely to arise only after a shocking or violent incident (Kent State analogy).

8. Personal Stories & Lighter Banter (59:16–72:27)

• Getting Arrested Stories: Kara shares two arrest tales—one involving a moped and another (to Scott’s delight) for being “somewhat naked” and making out as a lesbian in public.
  • "You were arrested for sex and drugs. All we're missing is rock and roll here." — Scott (71:50)
• Humor and Honesty: These asides evoke candid, human moments amid the heavy news.

9. Predictions (67:01–73:29)

• Nobel Peace Prize:
  • Kara bets on Navalny’s spouse accepting for him; Scott bets on a non-person/organization (e.g., ICC) because the committee will avoid overt politicization.
• Government Shutdown Duration:
  • Both discuss odds; Kara says 47 days (“just like those Trump people”); Scott expects a lengthy process but ultimately Democrats will declare some victory.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “She brightens up a room by leaving it.” – Scott, on Kamala Harris’ lack of political support (02:53)
• “The only thing I know is the Democrats are going to nominate a white heterosexual male over six feet tall.” – Scott (03:09)
• “In Dollywood, everyone was getting along ... I wish the world was Dollywood.” – Kara (06:06)
• “Right now, it's a meme stock.” – Scott, on Tesla’s persistent valuation (11:46)
• “Round tripping—would you prefer I use circle jerk?” – Kara, describing AI bubble funding (17:11)
• “America right now is a giant bet on AI.” – Scott (21:06)
• “The biggest lesson people can take away from Apple...Fucking leave.” – Scott, on CEO succession (41:01)
• “You want to surround yourself with people...that go on a regular basis, ‘That’s just fucking stupid. You’re wrong.’” – Scott (46:21)

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Essential Timestamps

• 00:55–08:47 – National politics, Harris’s prospects, Dollywood as metaphor
• 08:49–16:35 – Tesla’s models, EV competition, meme stock status
• 16:35–27:22 – OpenAI’s cash burn, AI bubble mechanics, market risk
• 29:59–38:41 – Gold’s rise, Scott’s gold belt story
• 40:27–46:13 – Apple’s CEO transition, boardroom culture, leadership lessons
• 49:02–53:14 – Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac IPO, bank lobbying, political favoritism
• 53:14–59:16 – Troops in cities, political optics, public opinion, risk of escalation
• 59:16–72:27 – Personal stories: arrests, being outed, playful banter
• 67:01–73:29 – Nobel Peace Prize, shutdown predictions, closing shoutouts

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Tone & Style

The episode is high-energy, irreverent, and incisive, alternating between wonky finance/tech breakdowns and deeply human storytelling. Kara and Scott balance heavy skepticism of institutional power with a warmth for ordinary people and a willingness to poke fun at themselves and their audience.

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Final Takeaways

• Tesla faces real challenges: Losing ground on price and innovation while Musk pivots to distraction tactics.
• AI market is bubbly, maybe unsustainable: The circular investments and ‘round tripping’ are red flags reminiscent of the dot-com era.
• Apple shows how to manage leadership succession: Stability, planning, and humility pay off.
• Political and economic systems are fragile: Overreliance on a few leaders, stocks, or narratives risks greater crashes.
• Personal stories and human connections matter: Even amid the world’s chaos, Kara and Scott find ways to make the tech/biz conversation refreshingly real and relatable.

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For fans or newcomers:
You’ll get sharp opinions on the future of tech, finance, and politics, plus some wild detours—from Dollywood sociology to golden belt inheritance, to tales of arrests for sex and mopeds. The episode is a blend of insight, warning, and laughter, as always.

Transcript

[Kara Swisher]

Support for this show comes from smartsheet. Have you ever wondered about all the incremental steps it takes to launch a rocket ship or maybe get a race car around a track or perform a life changing surgery? These feats of human ingenuity are executed by many people, taking many steps that lead up to one big goal making the seemingly impossible possible. Whether you're organizing a team, scaling a business, or sending a rover across the solar system, smartsheet is a work management platform that helps all those details turn into one big leap. Smartsheet Work with flow. Learn [e-mail] Vox support for this show comes from the Economists Sometimes knowing how the news gets reported is as important as knowing the news itself. Insider is a brand new video offering from the Economist that lets you feel like a fly on the wall of their editorial meetings. With Insider, you can get direct access to the internal debates that shape how the Economist makes sense of an increasingly complex and turbulent world. Hear trust voices, debate the biggest global issues with Insider, free at launch for all subscribers to the Economist. Learn [e-mail] Insider.

[Scott Galloway]

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[Kara Swisher]

Yes, I understand that there's gay everything. Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast network. I'm Kara Swisher.

[Scott Galloway]

And I'm Scott Galloway.

[Kara Swisher]

Scott, guess what I'm doing tonight.

[Scott Galloway]

I know what you're doing. You're interviewing Kamala Harris.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. What do you think?

[Scott Galloway]

Susan Harris?

[Kara Swisher]

You know, I'm not gonna focus. Honest answered a lot of questions about Biden. I want to spin it forward. I feel like that's my. That that's what we should do. Like I can ask. She's answered a lot of questions about why she didn't say anything, and the answers have been okay, I don't know if I'll get a better answer out of it, but I feel like I should spin it forward. Don't you?

[Scott Galloway]

What do you. What do you think she's going to do next?

[Kara Swisher]

I don't know. I'll be honest with you. I. I think she wants to run for president. That's my impression.

[Scott Galloway]

She's still young.

[Kara Swisher]

She's. Yeah, she is the best known one. Right. Like, no matter how you slice it, she's got the most name recognition. And a lot of men have fail, failed and tried again. Right. George Bush comes to mind. Lots of people do. John McCain tried a number of times. So there's no reason she shouldn't necessarily.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, there's no reason other than she'd lose for a third time and we wouldn't have a female president for 50 years on the Democratic side. But other than that, she should have.

[Kara Swisher]

I'm just saying she's just.

[Scott Galloway]

She brightens up a room by leaving it. And her total political victories have been not making it to Iowa.

[Kara Swisher]

Okay, that said, that was. So George Bush, like tried it 83 times, like, and that was okay. And then he got to be president. I'm just saying, like, she was a senator. She was the ag. She was the ag. She's. She's had a lot of big jobs.

[Scott Galloway]

I don't know. You know my view on this. I'm incredibly lexist. The only thing I know is the Democrats are going to nominate a white heterosexual male over six feet tall. Full stop. That's the only thing I know. Maybe West Moore, maybe Governor Moore. America seems comfortable with non whites. I don't think they're comfortable. I don't think the. What's weird is I don't think the Democratic party is comfortable with a gay president, but we'll see. But it's going to have to be somebody tall. And you know who is, who's very good. Who I interviewed or we talked to for raging moderates is Governor Pritzker. He has very comforting dad energy.

[Kara Swisher]

He has comforting dad energy. But you know, let me just point out, I'm not. Not to put a two point fine point on it, but you've been spectacularly wrong about political predictions.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, I'm awful at politics.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. So that's why I'm like, I'm awful. I don't know. I don't. There's. There's a. There's a real opportunity. Not necessarily Harris. I think someone from outside, like someone that we don't. Aren't thinking about. Right. Not someone who's unknown, but someone who are not.

[Scott Galloway]

It's definitely gonna be Kamala Harris and Taylor Swift. That's. It's definitely.

[Kara Swisher]

She would be great. She knows how to. Again, she knows how to sell records. She just beat everybody's record again, I don't have to dwell on it, but she could do well. One of the things was. You saw the scare about Dolly Parton. I would like to vote for her. Her sister put up something on Facebook like she was dying. We need prayer warriors. And then she had to get up and say, I know. But then she had to do a video like, I'm not dead.

[Scott Galloway]

I'm not dead.

[Kara Swisher]

I was like, I get the sense.

[Scott Galloway]

The sisters in the will was praying for a different outcome.

[Kara Swisher]

Now. I think they're very.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, that's awful.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, that's awful.

[Scott Galloway]

Have you been to Dollywood?

[Kara Swisher]

I have, of course.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, what's it like?

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, I love it. I love it. I went. When my nephew Will, who I love, and his wife Lee got married, they had gone to Vanderbilt, but then they got married in. Where's Dollywood? It's in Pigeon Forge, but it's next to a big city in Tennessee. And so I did go.

[Scott Galloway]

Like such a cultural elite right now.

[Kara Swisher]

No, I loved it. What are you talking about? Not a cultural elite. I went. I was very excited. And so I brought all the kids.

[Scott Galloway]

You triggered. Look at you with your Georgetown sensibility.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, I love Dolly Parton. I've been to Tupelo. You have not. Let me just say, I'm a very complex liberal. I love Elvis. Dolly also unites the country. But I went and I took all the kids and there's butterflies everywhere, which is wonderful. But one of the things that struck me, and it's a very good theme park, I have to say. It's really homey. The food is fantastic. It's really beautiful. It's not too big. You see the coat of many colors, et cetera, et cetera, which is great, the Dali museum. But what really struck me, and it was highly noticeable, it was all kinds of different people. It was the gays. Obviously, the gays were out in force. Then it was like sort of the rednecks, they were there, too. Then it was sort of the Christiany kind of people.

[Scott Galloway]

You know, there are some gay rednecks.

[Kara Swisher]

Yes, I understand that. There's gay animals. And then there was like, sort of Christian conservative type of people. And let me tell you, everything sounds like America. It was every. But in Dollywood, everyone was getting along. We're all like, Dolly. It was, like, so interesting because the minute you step out, it changes of Dollywood. I was. I wish the whole world was Dollywood because everyone was getting along. Everyone liked Dolly. There was a lot of talking. It was the most enjoyable theme park I've ever been to. But then we got out and Pigeon Forge is a little much. It's sort of gotten overrun with all kinds of touristy stuff. But my son Louis wanted to get a knife. And so we went into this store that said the world's biggest knife store on the top of it. And I missed the endgun part when I didn't see it. It was behind the thing and we go in and it was like people throwing bullets into like bullets and guns and everything into like these carts, like a lot, like a lot of bullets and stuff like that. And Louis went off and got the knife he wanted for cooking. And I'm sitting there watching this woman put like maybe a thousand bullets into the cart. And I was just curious, I'm like, why do you buy so many bullets? Like not. You shouldn't buy. I wasn't saying that. I was like, I'm just curious why you're buying so many bullets. And she goes, it's my right to buy bullets. And I said, hey, you absolutely, you should be able to buy as many. I'm just curious why, why, why, why you're doing it. And she said, because antifa was coming. It was. And then I just was thrown out of Dollywood because I was like, oh yes, of course, Antifa. That's what's happening.

[Scott Galloway]

If someone had been buying a lot of plan B, would you have asked them why they were buying?

[Kara Swisher]

I would have. So much plan B. I would have, I would have.

[Scott Galloway]

Why they're buying so many condoms.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, I do. I talk to people in stores.

[Scott Galloway]

I think that's passive aggressive, but that's just me.

[Kara Swisher]

By the way, I like to shoot guns. I hate to tell you, but I like it. And I think people should have gun rights. I just think should be gun controls too.

[Scott Galloway]

We're really going off topic. I'm going to try and save you here. You mentioned Vanderbilt as someone who's in the midst of the most manufactured stress in history. College apps for their son. Parents want to send their kids to college in the South. They don't want protests, they don't want wokeness. They want a pure college experience. And the southern schools are booming.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, are they interesting.

[Scott Galloway]

And public schools because they're a better value.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. Well, Vanderbilt's also a beautiful school.

[Scott Galloway]

And a beautiful school.

[Kara Swisher]

Maybe the parents want the non wokeness, but I think it's because kids love the party. That's a party school. All that, all that stuff that's going on there, I think it's not as woke as you think. It's not as unwoke as you think it's really. It feels like you're in the middle of a big city in Nashville. I love Nashville.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, so do I. Yeah.

[Kara Swisher]

And also hot chicken. Go hot chicken. Anyway, I love Dollywood. Thank God Dolly is not that sick and I'm thrilled for her to live for decades to come. We've got a lot to get to today, including OpenAI's cash burn and Apple's succession plans. But first, Tesla had people buzzing about an exciting reveal this week. Possibly the roadster that Elon has been teasing for years. But instead, the company rolled out a cheaper version of the Model 3 and Model Y. The new cars run about $5,000 less than the current models, with simpler interiors and fewer luxury features like that cool light on the front that's gone. The cheaper cars could offset some of the hit Tesla expected to take with the end of the EV tax credit. They're hoping, but investors seem to be unimpressed. So far, Tesla stock fell 4% after the announcement. Little bit, Scott, about these cheaper cars because, you know, a lot of the things I saw online were like, this is just a shittier car. And it wasn't, it wasn't very exciting. And cars are about being excited about the cars, right? Or maybe not. I don't know.

[Scott Galloway]

The way to summarize it is less for more with the, the end of the tax credit. They couldn't compensate for the end of the tax credit in terms of a, you know, a value, a product to cost ratio. The new cars are about $40,037,000, respectively. Where the Model Y and the standard Model 3 or the Model 3 standard, they're more expensive than the Model Y premium and Model 3 premium costs just last month because the tax credit expired. And also these cars are significant downgrade. Essentially, Tesla customers are paying more for less. And when you compare that against, I mean, the market is as it has. If you want to understand what's happening to Tesla, watch the movie. Tucker. There used to be like 50 or 60 automobile companies and it's consolidating. Unfortunately, it's consolidating not around American giants. It's consolidating around Chinese giants. The costs are coming down and Tesla can't keep up and doesn't have to scale. Gm, Nissan and Hyundai all offer EV models that are cheaper than Tesla's most inexpensive vehicle. And In China, the BYD seagull is now under $8,000. And even if, even if we, you know, ring fence our, our market, you know, China's had the China. The CCP has had to send A letter to Chinese EV manufacturers and say, please raise prices because a lot of these EV companies are seen as national champions for the local jurisdiction and they're being subsidized. But an $8,000 EV. So the amount of pressure here. So what you have is, I mean, I don't know if you saw, but he came up with this. They're kind of shelving their robot plans, which was their latest attempt to distract people from the fact this is an automobile company, not a SaaS or a AI company. But the death spiral here continues. Tesla's market share in the US dropped to its lowest level since 2017.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, but that stock keeps flying.

[Scott Galloway]

Right now it's a meme stock.

[Kara Swisher]

I can't see that. I get that. But how long does that continue when there are really such obvious results here?

[Scott Galloway]

I have been wrong about Tesla for a long time, but all I can report is Tesla sales were 43% year over year in the EU and they're down 6.3% year to date in China. And although September was a record setting month for EV sales in the US because people were trying to get the tax credit, which helped them a little bit. Tesla sales were muted and Tesla sales were only up 7.4% versus Ford had their EV sales granted off a smaller basis are up 20% and GM EVs were up 107%.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. Because of this tax credit expiring, people rushing your car. I thought about getting another. Replacing my Kia with another one of the Kias actually, which are really nice. One of the things that we're focusing on the price and everything else and the credit. But one of the things is it's a shittier version of a car and it's not interesting. I've been looking at more electric cars again because I'm thinking of going fully electric and there's so many cool cars out there, like so much fun, like shopping them a little bit. And I wouldn't even look at a Tesla because this hasn't changed. Lots of reasons. I don't want to pay money to him, but that's not why. If he came up with a delightful car, I'd have a hard time not buying it. Right? Even him, because I Amazon and I and Jeff Bezos gives me a fucking headache. Because it's good, right? And so I was like, when I look at the BYD cars just online, I've never actually seen. I haven't been to Europe in a while and I haven't seen. Seen it. I. They look delightful. It's something I would Buy if it was available.

[Scott Galloway]

So I've been in several BYD because I took Ubers all around Brazil when I was in Sao Paulo. And you get in one and you think you're in. Your first impression is, oh, you're in the cheap Tesla. But the cheap Tesla is 30 or 35 grand. And this thing this guy told me, I asked him how many reals it was. 80,000. That's about $16,000. You're basically in what feels like kind of the low model Tesla, but it's for half the price. And also what I found interesting is that Tesla, they announced kind of under the COVID of Dark, that they're abandoning the plans for producing the Optimus, their transition to AI. And earlier in the year, Musk said, in an attempt again to justify what is just an unsustainable stock price, he said on an earnings call that Tesla would build 10,000 Optimus bots for internal use and that eventually, get this, Optimus would make up 80% of Tesla's enterprise value.

[Kara Swisher]

He's just making it up.

[Scott Galloway]

And by the way, he's just like throwing shit out there.

[Kara Swisher]

There was one at the Tron premiere I saw just like, this is ridiculous.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, the thing that kind of triggered it and said, okay, we got to put this thing on hold or basically find a polite exit from this. The head of Optimus just left the company to be a research scient and meta. And he also confirmed on X that he took a pay cut to do so. But meanwhile, Tesla Stock is up 14% this year.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, I know, it's crazy. If he made a great car, I bet people would buy it. Right? That's one, two. The thing that's interesting, even though he goes on and on about robots, is his Spectrum and a mobile phone. Right? The stuff that Starlink is doing to me is actually like, that's a great product. It could be a great business. He could steal market share from Verizon and the rest. I mean, to me, that is the boring stuff that he could actually do rather well on. Or he could make a car that's delightful again or innovative or feels fresh, but he won't do that. He's not interested in that at all.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, I think he's a brilliant guy and he's trying to reposition the entire thing as AI and a combination of. He does have an exceptional product with SpaceX autonomous driving. He's got a lot of data, he's got Grok. He's about to raise a shit ton of money for that. I mean, he could try you can never count this guy out. And he was trying to make like this. He's trying to figure out a way to maintain Tesla's market cap so he can fund his move into AI and this other stuff. And also he's raising a lot of money and raising debt because a lot of people just want to be involved with him in hopes that they can either get into SpaceX or into the SpaceX IPO. And just his name associated with anything takes the value up tens of billions of dollars, but there's just no getting around it. The weak link in all of this is that the company that's worth the most is overvalued by 10x. And he keeps coming up with Rebovan or autonomous cars or optimus robots. And it's like, please, please look over here. Don't look at here as I try and pull this dead rabbit out of it.

[Kara Swisher]

We should pull up to our tour in a Robovan.

[Scott Galloway]

Can't. They don't exist.

[Kara Swisher]

I know that. We should bring a robot. We should bring an optimist robot. Can you go buy one?

[Scott Galloway]

You know what, I'll just take Xanax. You'll think it's a robot on stage with you.

[Kara Swisher]

Anyway, Elon make a better something like, stop moving shit around. He actually just paid off all those Twitter people. He tried to keep their salaries after he fired them. He had to pay. Of course, he ended up paying everybody back. Anyway, moving on. This story is getting more and more interesting. OpenAI has now signed about a $1 trillion in deals year for computing power, partnering with Nvidia, Oracle and others. This week's massive deal with AMD sent the chip maker stock soaring by more than 40%. A crazy, crazy amount of money. OpenAI's cash burn is probably an estimated $115 billion through 2029. And the latest valuation puts at 500 billion, making it the world's most valuable private company. We know that analysts are sounding the alarm about these circular deals. As we talked about about previously, it feels very AOL Purchase Pro circa, you know, the last century. A small network of companies pouring money in each other's coffers, fueling an AI bubble. They're all waiting to make money, you know, they're all desperate to make money to back this up. Now Nvidia is also investing in XAI's latest funding round. They're all sort of propping each other up with the same $5, essentially. So talk a little bit about this so people can understand. There's been some great stories showing the Interconnections, you know, especially charts. And it's really quite, it's really quite something. It's like a. You know, someone called me when I said it was a round tripping. They're like, that's. Someone at one of these companies said, that's really rude. I said, would you prefer I use circle jerk? And they were like, no, stick with round tripping. So anyway, there we have it. Circle jerk. Your thoughts?

[Scott Galloway]

Well, let's just do the math. If Nvidia invests 100 billion in OpenAI, and with the agreement that they're going to turn around and buy and spend all of that $100 billion on Nvidia chips, okay, so they're trading at $4 trillion. So it's approximately a 2.5% dilution of the stock price. So all else being equal, the stock price should go down 2.5%. That's the cost. They're taking 2.5% of their company or they're increasing their dilution by 2.5% for that $100 billion to invest in OpenAI. That money comes right back in the form of chip purchases. The average, the operating margin on the GPUs that Nvidia sells is about 55 points. So that creates $55 billion in incremental earnings or profits. The company trades at about a PE of about 33. So loosely speaking, that's about 1 point. That's about $1.8 trillion increase in market cap. So $1.8 trillion increase in Market cap off of a hundred billion dollar investment is a 1700% return. The problem is. So theoretically, it's a wildly accretive thing to do, but all you're doing is, I remember we were doing this in the late 90s. We were buying software from all the other startups we worked with, backed by the companies who had backed us. And then when the music stops, it's not like the music stops and they take away one share. When the music stops and one chair gets taken away, a dozen chairs get taken away because everything just accelerates downward. So these deals, we've talked about it, these deals feel very late. Stage bubble.

[Kara Swisher]

Can I ask you, I saw Ken Griffin talking, who seems like a grumpy fella, but he was a smart guy. Smart guy, that's what I'm saying. But he was talking about gold, the price of gold. We're gonna talk in a second. But he was discussing this. He's like, this is a real problem. The frothiness around tech stocks and that they're holding up the whole things. And he and many others are predicting this sort of market collapse. I think they're not even using downturn, they're like collapse kind of thing. And sometimes I believe those things. But he had such a cogent argument about it. How do you look at that?

[Scott Galloway]

Well, I'll give you a thesis and I'll tell you what I'm doing as opposed to offering financial advice. First off, just some caveats. When the experts are the most knowledgeable, people are all convinced about something happening. I forget the name of the effect, but it almost. It usually doesn't happen. Experts, on average, when experts have consensus, it's usually wrong. And if you look at the arc of the growth of OpenAI, it's kind of mimicking what happened in Netscape. And it's at a point where it's still two years away from the bubble bursting. So like I said, the economists called the dot com implosion perfectly. But they called it in 1997 before those stocks went up another 30 or 40%. So do we know they're going to come down? Yeah, the hard part is figuring out when they're going to come down and if they're going to scream to new highs. Now, what I see is effectively America right now is a giant bet on AI because 40%, and let me just get political here, if the S and P had been down 23% instead of up 23%, there's no fucking way, in my view, Trump would have the cloud cover to send troops into Portland if he was totally distracted with, okay, shithead, you get into office and all of a sudden the market goes down, loses a quarter of its value. He would be putting out fires and not have the cloud cover to start raiding Home Depots. So essentially the bet on AI, the extraordinary evaluations of AI, the acceleration of these 10 stocks, which are responsible for 70% of the uptick in the S and P, are enabling Trump's behavior. I think AI and the market valuations of AI are the reason that Trump has the cloud cover to move towards fascism.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, of course. And there they were, front row, getting all the guards, the lack of guardrails, the money, the cryptocurrency. They got all their stuff and here they are helping him.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, and then he shows up and says, okay, I'll pass AI legislation where you can suck value from the 490 of the S and P that aren't you. The tariffs don't impact you. They probably help you because you can get talent. Who the fuck what graduate of the Ross School, which is an amazing business school in Michigan, is going to go to work for Ford if they have an offer from Google or Meta or Broadcom right now. And when you have some of the smartest people in the world, Warren Buffett is selling like a maniac. So what I'm doing is, and I've been doing it for a long time, I have been buying European and Latin American stocks and I am now contemplating, I'm trying to find an ETF and a way to go short the magnificent 10. And by the way, there's a great saying, the markets can stay irrational longer than.

[Kara Swisher]

Explain what you mean Short the Magnificent 10. Tell people what you're doing. So people understand because they're here for our business app, Gimmen.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, yours really there are now ETFs and what they do is they go out and they sell, they sell covered calls against those 10 companies, meaning they think that they take a premium and if the stocks don't go up, they get to hold onto that premium and they do it across the Magnificent Ten. You're, they're basically, you can invest in vehicles that are betting on the Magnificent Ten going down. But just a point of caution here, you do not want to invest more than you are willing to lose all of it. I'm doing it as a hedging strategy because I think of these 10 companies unwind, literally every company in the world is likely going to go down. Because in the 80s there was some incredible academic research that showed that you get risk adjusted free return and upside based on diversification. And so everyone believed that and everyone started diversifying like crazy. Meaning that if an iron ore company in Australia goes down in value, the people who own that iron ore company will probably have to sell Japanese stock. So everything's sort of interconnected now. And when you have 10 companies responsible for 40% of the S&P's value, and the S&P makes up 50% of the total world's value, you have 10 companies responsible for 20% of the entire valuation of public equities globally. Meaning that is the string that if it gets pulled, you know, everything, everything goes down. What pulls it then in my opinion.

[Kara Swisher]

Everybody just goes, what? What?

[Scott Galloway]

It's that MIT study, which was not great research, but there was an MIT study that you could poke holes in, but it was, I think directionally correct, showing that 95% of companies when surveyed said they are not yet getting the ROI they'd hoped based on these extraordinary expenditures and site licenses with LLMs. So everybody has signed big agreements with Anthropic, with OpenAI, they have purchased chips to try and build their own things. And so far they're excited about it. They see a lot of potential, but they're not seeing the roi. And if all of a sudden, a bunch of big companies all of a sudden come out and say, we're scaling back our investments in AI because it's not showing the ROI and Nvidia throws up and goes down 20 or 30% in one day, you could see just an unwinding, very slow.

[Kara Swisher]

So Nvidia is the domino.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, Nvidia most likely, Kara, because The thing about OpenAI is they're private, so they don't have to announce that they threw in up their earnings and you don't see the stock go down 30% in one day.

[Kara Swisher]

I see. Okay.

[Scott Galloway]

This is where it pays. It pays to be a private company. So, you know, Nvidia, Broadcom, Oracle, all these guys, Palantir. If Palantir went down 70% in two weeks, we would say, well, of course it did.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, right, right.

[Scott Galloway]

It would. It still wouldn't look cheap now. But the company that, the company that probably creates almost like a global. A real slowdown. And we're very vulnerable right now because there's indications that we are seeing a weak job market while inflation is persistent, which is the S word, stagflation. But the company, you never know. It's almost impossible by virtue of saying it's Nvidia that is the epicenter of the earthquake here. It probably won't be Nvidia. When this shit happens, it usually starts in a place you didn't expect it, but it's definitely feeling like, you know, Nassim Talib, the notion of antifragility. We have way too. Let me finish where I started. America right now is a giant bet on AI, everything. Whether it's Trump's policies all in, as.

[Kara Swisher]

Those idiots say, whether it's Trump having.

[Scott Galloway]

Cloud cover to make the aggressive moves he's making, whether it's the fact that we can impose ridiculously stupid tariffs and the economy still is not gone into a coma. It's because of the massive amount of capital chasing returns and momentum in 10 stocks. Right now.

[Kara Swisher]

Everybody head for the hills. And speaking of which, gold. Okay, Scott, we're gonna take a quick break. When we come back, why investors are going for gold. Support for this show comes from Vanta. Here are a few things that are probably essential to your company's survival in the modern world. World Internet access, a tax id, a great snack pantry. Well, here's something else that's essential. Trust. In today's fast changing digital world, proving your company is trustworthy isn't just important for growth, it's essential. That's why Vanta is here. Vanta helps companies of all sizes get compliant fast and stay that way with industry leading AI, automation and continuous monitoring. So whether you're a startup tackling your first SoC2 or ISO 27001 or you're an enterprise managing vendor risk, Vanta's trust management platform makes it quicker, easier and more scalable. Vanta also helps you complete security questionnaires up to five times faster so you can win bigger deals sooner. The results According to a recent IDC study, Vanta customers slash over $500,000 a year in costs and are three times more productive. Establishing trust isn't optional. Vanta makes it automatic. Visit vanta.com pivot to sign up for a free demo today. That's V A n t a.com/pivot Support for this show comes from Smartsheet. You know that frustrating feeling when you're getting really into the flow of a work task? But when you hear a little ping of a message notification, you then switch your screen, Then you open a new application, then check the message, then click on the link in the message. Whoops. That opened a new application and your flow is totally broken. Well, you're definitely not alone here. On average, this toggling between tasks and application adds up to about 9% of time spent working each year. That's five whole work weeks. This distracting tax switching is what Harvard Business Review called toggling tax and increases stress hormones, decreases focus, and makes it impossible to tap into a state of flow. That's where smartsheet comes in. Smartsheet is the work management software where you and your team can plan, track and deliver their best work without toggling back and forth between multiple applications. Imagine that you could do with those extra five work weeks if your work happened all in one place. Smartsheet Work with flow visit smartsheet.com voxt today to learn more. Support for Pivot comes from LinkedIn jobs. As a small business owner, your work hours aren't dictated by the hands on a clock. Your business is on your mind 24 hours a day, seven days a week.

[Scott Galloway]

Week.

[Kara Swisher]

So when you're hiring, you need a partner that works just as hard as you do. That hiring partner is LinkedIn Jobs. When you clock out, LinkedIn clocks in by making it easy to post your job, share it with your network and qualified candidates. That you can manage all in one place. LinkedIn's new feature can help you write job descriptions and quickly get your job in front of the right people with deep, candid insights. Either post your job for free or pay to promote. As promoted jobs get three times more qualified applicants. At the end of the day, LinkedIn wants you to feel confident that you're getting the best because the most important thing to your small business is the quality of candidates. And based on LinkedIn data, 70% of small business owners using LinkedIn say that the platform helps them find high quality candidates. Plus, you can let your network know you're hiring by adding the hashtag hiringframe to your profile picture. To get two times more qualified candidates, find out why more than 2.5 million small businesses use LinkedIn for hiring today. Find your next great hire on LinkedIn. Post your job for free at LinkedIn.com pivot that's LinkedIn.com pivot to post your job for free. Terms and conditions apply. SCOTT we're back in our very business focused show today. The price of gold soared past $4,000 for the first time this week. Prices are up more than 50% since the beginning of the year. Gold traditionally climbs during periods of uncertainty and it's currently on track for its best year since 1970. That's a long time ago. This latest, what were you doing in 1979? How old was I? I was still in high school. This latest rally kicked off right as the government shutdown began. Up and up since Trump announced his Liberation Day terrorists back in April, obviously. Are you going for the gold, Scott? Are you wearing a gold belt right now, like in billions where you have a little gold, little gold doubloons, et cetera? Ray Dalio said this week that people should allocate as much as 15% of their portfolios to gold. A third thoughts, thoughts about gold? Gold is best.

[Scott Galloway]

The first crush I ever had and the first woman I ever remember registering as pretty was a woman named Carson Evans. And her and her husband Charlie, he owned a printing company, were the first people I ever observed who were rich. They used to have big parties where people would drink and they lived up in the hills and they'd hire these bands. And I thought these people are so cool. And Carson was just beautiful. And her husband Charlie. I was gonna go to work for his company after high school cause I didn't think I was gonna go to college. And really good man, my godfather and his company went out of business very depressed. She told me he was leaving him and he went into his room and killed. Or went in the garage and killed himself. Anyways, that's not the moral of the story. She was a very. I'm gonna come back to gold. She was a very good friend of my mom. And when my mom was dying out of nowhere, she was by this time a raging alcoholic in her 70s, addicted because of bad pain.

[Kara Swisher]

Is this gonna get better? Okay. All right.

[Scott Galloway]

It ends on a funny note. She'd become addicted to opiates and Johnnie Walker plaque because of the back pain. She was from failed surgeries. She showed up, she called me and said, I'm gonna come take care of your mom. And I'm like, we're fine. I didn't want an alcoholic there. A canary yellow Corvette shows up with a dog and 12 bottles of Johnnie Walker. And she's like, I'm here. And every night, she would make Hot Pockets for us and keep my mom company. And anyways, so my mom passes. Carson goes back to San Diego. Carson dies four years later, and I get a call from a lawyer in San Diego saying, you're the sole beneficiary of Carson Evans.

[Kara Swisher]

What?

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah. She left me everything. Everything. Wasn't a lot. But she had no friends. She had no kids.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, God.

[Scott Galloway]

One of the things I inherited, something I did not.

[Kara Swisher]

This is. My mind is being blown right now. You had, like, Jennifer Coolidge as your godmother, essentially. Right.

[Scott Galloway]

You know what? That's a really. Actually, that's the most apt analogy I would have ever used to describe Carson.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. A drunk. A really drunk Jennifer Coolidge. Okay.

[Scott Galloway]

So my dad. I said to my dad, I said, go down there. Find out what there is or anything. Neighbors. I had a funeral for three people showed up.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, no.

[Scott Galloway]

And. Yeah. And one of them was the maintenance guy who she was fooling around with, I guess. But anyways, I walked in on her topless, fooling around with a maintenance guy when she took care of my mom. And I still. That's, like, still starched into my memory anyways, so. Oh, I feel so one of the moments I inherited.

[Kara Swisher]

You do not have a story like this.

[Scott Galloway]

Okay? So she had a safe. No money, nothing, but she had a safe. So we had to hire people to come out and drill open the safe. And in the safe, what? I saw something that I used to see her wear all the time. And it was this massive gold belt that had had Indian head, $5 gold coins. It was a belt with 12 gold coins on it and these gold coins. I guess this is the only gold I've ever owned. Were worth like 3, 5 or 10,000 each. And at one point, gold soared. And my closest friend was going through a divorce. And I'd hid the gold coins, the belt, because I didn't know what to do with this thing. And my oldest friend from home was going through a divorce. And I had just sold my home in the Hampton. The story is getting douchier and douchier. And so I shipped him all the furniture. Cause he was going through divorce. I'm like, I don't need this furniture. You can have it. And then about two years later, gold spikes. And I figured that. And I didn't have a lot of money. I just started at nyu and I'm like, I could really use that money. And I thought. And Indian gold heads were going for like 18,000. So I'm like, I have a $200,000 belt. I racked my home looking for this fucking belt. And then about six months later, my friend calls and he goes, oh, by the way, he goes, my youngest son, Nick has been wearing this cool costume jewelry Halloween belt. You have no. I'm like, what are you talking about? And he's like, yeah, we found it in the drawer. He wears it to school every day. Cause he thinks it makes him look like a rapper.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh my God.

[Scott Galloway]

So two years later, I found out that my friend's 13 year old was wearing a $200,000 belt to school every day. Cause he thought it made him look like Snoop Dogg.

[Kara Swisher]

I can't believe this.

[Scott Galloway]

He would wear it around his belt. Where's the belt?

[Kara Swisher]

Where's the belt?

[Scott Galloway]

He would wear it around his neck.

[Kara Swisher]

Where is the belt?

[Scott Galloway]

He would wear it around his. His neck. And so anyways. Anyways, got it back. Gave three of the gold coins to this girl next door who used to go and get, get Carson her prescription drugs. And then we still have the other nine.

[Kara Swisher]

But anyways, you still have the belt?

[Scott Galloway]

No, I just, I. I didn't. It's not the belt. It's the nine Indian head gold coins. Gold coins.

[Kara Swisher]

You have to.

[Scott Galloway]

You know, I. I just got very insecure again, cuz. Again. I can't remember.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh my God.

[Scott Galloway]

God.

[Kara Swisher]

Anyways, you need to wear that belt to our.

[Scott Galloway]

But every time I think of that belt, I think of this woman literally in 1979, was the toast of the.

[Kara Swisher]

Town and then wasn't.

[Scott Galloway]

And then like 25 years. Was addicted to painkillers and an alcoholic.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh God.

[Scott Galloway]

And broke. Wow.

[Kara Swisher]

Okay. Anyways, gold is best.

[Scott Galloway]

Gold.

[Kara Swisher]

Gold. Anyways, I think we're gonna stop now.

[Scott Galloway]

I Feel like thanks for that walk down memory lane.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Scott. I was fascinated by that. I thought at first, oh, my God, he needs to stop. And then I was like, I want to hold that. I need you to find the belt now. Okay. Like my bitcoin. Like my bitcoin that's missing. Wherever it is, you need to find the same thing. Mine's on a hard drive. That's the whole story.

[Scott Galloway]

Okay, so I'll bring us back to gold. The bottom line is the run up in gold is essentially an indictment against the US because gold is sort of.

[Kara Swisher]

Dollars and everyone's going into bit. That's what Griffin was saying. They're going into everything but dollars. Right, Right.

[Scott Galloway]

So people no longer have as much faith in the dollar and they are no longer. Typically when there's kind of a risk on trade or you want something, something that might endure inflation or some sort of risk, there's just so much. It feels like there's so much risk everywhere. You go into treasuries and people are even losing confidence in treasuries. And that's foreign. Central banks are moving into gold because they no longer consider US Debt a safe asset. And per your comments last week, Citadel's Ken Griffin said investors are starting to view gold as a safer asset than the dollar, which is obviously really concerning because what people don't appreciate is what. Well, whenever there's tumult in the world or danger, the president's typically, the first question they ask is, where are our carriers? The most powerful carrier strike force in history that's invisible is the US Dollar because very few companies, very few countries can transact a lot of business without going through US dollars. So we get to see everything. Our sanctions have teeth. The economic firepower we have because the dollar is the default currency. Now, fortunately, nothing looks like it's rivaling it. But the fact that gold's above $4,000, it doesn't speak well.

[Kara Swisher]

And bitcoin's up all the other alternate. He called them dollar alternates. Griffin called them. By the way, I did just say that about 10 minutes ago. And it's because that story was so long, he forgot. I didn't say it last week. Anyway, I love that story. Can I ask one? I need you to answer this briefly. Where's the fucking Corvette?

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, I don't know. What happened to the vet? I think she sold it.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. Okay.

[Scott Galloway]

For drugs now. Carson is a cautionary tale for me. Took care of my mom. I checked in on her only a few times. And I remember thinking at her funeral, like this woman who was taking care of my mom and I couldn't find the time to go visit her.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, don't, don't.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, total lack of character.

[Kara Swisher]

We're going to move along. We're going to move on. That's a great story, Carson. Here's to fucking Carson.

[Scott Galloway]

Here's to Carson Evans.

[Kara Swisher]

Here's to Carson Evans. We're moving on from gold. Since gold is best, people go look gold is best and Apple up and you'll laugh your ass off. Tim Cook may step down as Apple CEO in the near future. Future. And clear frontrunner for his replacement is emerging hardware engineering chief John Ternus. Ternus has already been in the Apple Spotlight unveiling new Macs and iPads in the past. He's 50 years old, really interesting guy. The same age as Cook was when he took the role and has a strong technology background as opposed to operations or sales. There was a guy who left just recently left, was thought to be the CEO. I think it's Jeff Williams was supposed to be the CEO, but now it looks like this guy. Talk about the shifting over this. I think they'll probably do a very smooth transition at Apple. I don't think it'll be sort of ugly like many, many others, like Disney or whatever. Not ugly, but just slow or confusing. As many companies when they do these transitions, I suspect they'll do it pretty smoothly. The thing that I'm sort of shocked by is that Cook has been so acquiescent to Trump. If he's leaving, like what does he have to lose to have some dignity? But go ahead.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, Apple is arguably, I mean if you look on just consistently for the last 20 or 30 years has been the best for run, you know, best run company in the world.

[Kara Swisher]

And kudos to Cook, by the way. Everyone thought it was going to fall apart when Jobs died and he's made it bigger and better.

[Scott Galloway]

And it's $300 billion when he took over, now it's three and a half trillion. And look, there's a real, the biggest lesson people can take away from Apple, specifically right now. And it's a really important lesson that our elected leaders and Bob Iger need to learn. Fucking leave.

[Kara Swisher]

Leave.

[Scott Galloway]

You are too fucking old. Leave. Two thirds of Congress will be dead in 25 years because they're so fucking old. You really think they're worried about debt or climate change?

[Kara Swisher]

No, they're not.

[Scott Galloway]

You really think a 74 year old Bob Iger can read the room right now?

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

Leave. Tim Cook added more shareholder value than any individual in history, with the exception of JENSEN Huang. He's 64 and you know what he's doing. He's realized. Realizing it's probably time for someone else. And if you were to. And I know I say this a lot, but if you were to reverse engineer the world's biggest problems, they reverse engineer to some dude who won't fucking leave, some guy who won't get out of the way.

[Kara Swisher]

Cook does not strike me as that person.

[Scott Galloway]

That's my point.

[Kara Swisher]

Kudos to him.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, yeah, kudos to him. He has nothing left to approve or accomplish. He should go. Go watch Bama games or whatever he does and have documentaries made about him and go to film festivals and have sex with him. He likes to work, enjoy himself.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, yeah, I agree. He could be on the board too.

[Scott Galloway]

Take. Follow his lead. Congress. Follow his lead.

[Kara Swisher]

How old is he?

[Scott Galloway]

He's 64.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, he's not old. He's not that. And he actually is incredibly fit, too. You're right. You're right.

[Scott Galloway]

He's in great shape.

[Kara Swisher]

He's in great shape. He's with it. He's done a great job. Some missteps here and there.

[Scott Galloway]

Nice. Everything. Granted, probably produced the most dangerous device in the world. But look, kudos to him. I love that this guy is saying, okay, it's time to let someone else take over very well run company.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, he's got a lot of choices there. What's interesting about Apple, and I remember when I think I've said this, where when Walt retired, they had a little surprise party for him at one of the events. Cook and Eddie Q. And the whole gang of them. And I have to say, I was really. Sometimes I think when people all stay together for a long time, that sucks too. But I thought this group of people, they kind of reminded me of the Rolling Stones. They kind of kept going pretty well for a long time. And the fact that they've injected this new guy, who was a relatively new guy and never met him, John Turnis into the equation without having to go to one of the older guys is kind of great, actually. I'm sure he's been there a while. I don't know much about him, but it's not one of the ones right below Cook. Right. That's the natural thing. A lot of people do. And so, you know, they should really. You're right. Disney should do it. Interestingly enough, Dana Walden was the one people think is going to do. Possibly hurt by the Jimmy Kimmel thing. But Kimmel just said she was great, just publicly. So these things should all just happen. Like there's never a good time to leave. Right. Presumably, I mean, you're a board member. What's the problem? What's the biggest. Just ego. What do you put it at?

[Scott Galloway]

This is the problem. And I'm virtue signaling or patting myself on the back. I always have a self imposed term limit of four years on boards. I always leave after four years.

[Kara Swisher]

Exactly.

[Scott Galloway]

Okay, one, because I want to do a variety of things because I'm going to be dead soon and I need to shift stuff off my plate regularly to put more stuff on. But also this is what happens when you're on a board. You start vacationing with Bob and Will Willow and you find out they're really lovely people and you just want them to win and you like them personally. And even though you've decided, okay, Bob, you've made some really bad decisions and you're 74, maybe we should give that Parks guy or gal a chance. You don't. Because you're on the board and you play golf with them and you like them and they're nice and you start making excuses for them. And guess what? Every CEO I've met is effectively not the fraternity president or the sorority president, but definitely the fraternity or sorority rush chairman. And that they are really, really lik. Because how you get to be CEO is not only being outstanding, but by creating a lack of enemies because you are so fucking likable. And everyone on the board or they're scared of you.

[Kara Swisher]

There's another version of a CEO that's scared of you.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, that's more the musk thing.

[Kara Swisher]

Or you get paid off. Like the musk things also they pay these board members off.

[Scott Galloway]

But good boards are meant to be. I mean, one of the first things I demand on every board is executive session where you and CEOs hate this. And good boards do this where for at least 15 or 30 minutes at the end of the board meeting, the CEO leaves the room and you talk about how the CEOs doing and then you have the chairman give them feedback. And what bad boards do, and I've seen this in Fortune 500 companies, is they don't do it because oh, the CEOs doing such a great job. And they all get paid off and they all start and they all want to be on other boards and before you know it they are totally co opted. And there's usually two board meetings. There's usually a board meeting, the official board meeting, and then what I Call the real board meeting. And that is the two or three people that have power on the board. It's usually the biggest shareholders and the person, the one person everyone kind of respects on the board and they meet in the parking lot after and they start saying, I'm worried about Bob. I'm not sure he's the right guy. And that's the beginning of the end when it happens. But people in boards typically don't like. And not only that, good boards have shareholders on the board, not just their buddies. But look at, look at, you know.

[Kara Swisher]

A little like a president who doesn't want to live leave. Requiring the vice president to go in and say leave. Which is vaguely traitorous anyway.

[Scott Galloway]

Just thinking, yeah, there's a real lesson in this. And that is. And I, you know, you want to surround yourself with people. This is why I think kids are so valuable or teenagers. You have to have people in your life that go on a regular basis. That's just fucking stupid. You're wrong. Yeah, you're wrong. Stop it. You're wrong. And if you don't have those people in your life, if you don't have people saying that to you, it means you have the wrong friends or you have, or your family is scared of you. Because nobody, I don't care who you are. It is really hard to read the label from the.

[Kara Swisher]

It depends on who they are. I will say Bob Iger does seek out people who don't agree with him. I have spoken to him. You know what I mean?

[Scott Galloway]

You know him. I don't.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, he does. He does. And he doesn't shy from it. So maybe he will in that case. But. Tim Cook, good for you. We do have to move on though. Scott Spot, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll talk about major banks wanting a role in the IPO of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

[Scott Galloway]

Support for the show comes from pipedrive. I've spent plenty of hours speaking to entrepreneurs and the one issue that always seems to pop up, they struggle with their sales process. It's all too common to jump between back and forth emails, scattered notes and forgotten follow ups, and spending more time chasing paperwork than actually closing. That's where pipedrive comes in. Pipedrive is a top rated CRM tool for small to medium businesses. With Pipedrive, sales teams are equipped to close deals at a much faster rate. The visual sales pipeline shows you where every deal is, what stage it's in and what needs to happen next, all in one dashboard. Plus, pipedrive lets you automate your follow ups so no leads slip through the cracks and its AI features can analyze your sales process to take your business business to the next level. It's a powerful yet simple CRM built by salespeople for salespeople. Join the over 100,000 companies already using Pipedrive right now. When you use my link you'll get a 30 day free trial. No credit card or payment needed. Just head to pipedrive.com pivot to get started. That's pipedrive.com pivot and you can be up and running in [e-mail] it's not just about window treatments. It's about you. Your style, your space, your way. Whether you DIY or want the pros to handle it all, you'll have the.

[Shawn Ramis]

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[Scott Galloway]

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[Shawn Ramis]

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[Scott Galloway]

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[Kara Swisher]

Hey Pivot listeners, I want to tell you about a new podcast from the Box Media Podcast network called Access with Alex Heath and Ellis Hamburger. It's a show about the inside conversation happening across the tech industry. You may know Alex Heath from shows like Decoder and the Vergecast, and he's the founder of Sources, a new publication about the tech industry and a contributing writer for the Verge. And you'll probably only know Ellis if you worked in Silicon Valley yourself. He's the former tech reporter turned tech industry insider, working closely with today's hottest startups. Their first episode features an interview with Mark Zuckerberg about Meta's latest smart glasses, the AI race, and what's next for the social media giant. You can find the Access podcast with Alex Heath and ellis hamburger on YouTube or wherever you listen to podcasts. Scott we're back with more news. Major banks are schmoozing with the Trump administration for a role. Of course they are. For a role, as you noted last week, how do you work with the White House for a role of the IPO of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac? CEOs of the country's six largest banks have made business to the White House in an attempt to become the favorite. All six banks are expected to play a part, but all are pushing to have the two lead roles. The administration is looking for an IPO combined value of $500 billion, raising roughly 30 billion DOL, which could make it the largest IPO offering in history. This is like another big payoff. This time for the banks versus tech companies, correct?

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah. It's the reason why Jamie Dimon, who I think is a leader, or David Solomon, who I also think is a great CEO, are less inclined to speak their mind and say the Fed needs to be independent, although they have said that. Or these tariffs make no fucking sense because they're all hoping to get a part of that underwriters fee for this. First off, this shouldn't happen. Anything like this where the government has input, which it probably shouldn't. He should recuse himself from the decision and have a panel of thoughtful, smart people who say what is the best syndicate? And the reality is the syndicate for an offering like this should be just everyone because they want to get as much distribution as possible and then competitively bid it out to try and get the lowest fees possible. But instead, like TikTok and everything else, he's going to decide who are his political allies and who will say things and show up to the White House. And Jamie, will you say nice things about me? Because if these guys come out and actually say, I don't know, I'm worried about stagflation and these policies don't make.

[Kara Swisher]

Any sense, which Dimon has been doing compared to others.

[Scott Galloway]

More so I think Jamie, to his credit has been a leader on this. And also I think Jamie right now he has a lot of power and he's also very powerful. In addition, the banks are rocketing right now because of this M and A Lollapalooza because of a lack of FTC oversight. In incredibly, do you have any insight.

[Kara Swisher]

Of who's going to get the two, the two lead roles?

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, it'll be. It'll be the big guys. It'll be J.P. morgan and Goldman. It'll be everybody. I don't know who the book runner will be.

[Kara Swisher]

Right, right. They're all going to be in it. But there's two. There's two lead roles.

[Scott Galloway]

I got to think it's going to.

[Kara Swisher]

It's got to be Dodman. He's not stitching.

[Scott Galloway]

It's two of three. It's the two. I don't know who the two are. I know who among. It'll either be J.P. morgan, Goldman or Morgan Stanley. Because. Because Trump is very brand sensitive and also these companies have the largest networks and probably the best research and they're probably the most capable. But this will end up being a syndicate for everyone because it'll be such a massive offering. But the whole thing, the President shouldn't be influencing these decisions because it creates an unfair market and it creates an ecosystem that withers away and erodes tomorrow.

[Kara Swisher]

Smells like TikTok. Smells like TikTok.

[Scott Galloway]

The downside to autocracy is you punish your enemies companies. The flip side is and just as important to autocracy is over rewarding your allies. And the problem is if you're not in the president's ear every day, you're just a smaller or medium sized business which is responsible for two thirds of the job creation. Those companies suffer and the economy suffers. So you're not supposed to. The president shouldn't. The president not even a cabinet level decision should be involved in this. It should be an independent committee of really smart people that includes bankers but don't have a vested interest or own shares in these companies. Picking who the senators.

[Kara Swisher]

Yep. Well, there you have it really briefly. 500 National Guard members are currently in Chicago despite a lawsuit challenging their deployment to the city. There's outside the city apparently. President Trump has said several times a week that he would invoke the Insurrection act if necessary. The Federal law from 1807 grants the President powers to deploy the military domestically and federalize national troops, but only in certain cases. I think it was used during the riots in LA last time. I believe President Trump also took to Truce Socialist Week to further attack the city saying Governor JB Pritzker, who you just had on Scott and Chicago Mayor Brandon Johnson should be in jail for failing to protect ice. 58% of Americans, including half of the Republicans think armed troops should only be sent for external threats. What is this just goes on. And then there's these photos from Portland where people dressed as frogs as dinosaurs. Dinosaurs and frogs, you know, it's crazy. And then you have Kristi Noem doing cosplaying like talking about ice balloon, like what is she doing? What do you think about this? Nobody likes this on any spectrum. It's sort of organically hateful for everybody. What's happening very briefly from a marketing point of view.

[Scott Galloway]

Scott, I mean just a couple observations. I think we're going to look back on this era and we're going to be all, even those of us who think we liked it, that somehow we understand what's happening to us. We're going to just be horrified when we realize how much mind control, profit seeking people who aren't concerned with the well being of our emotional and financial health, how much influence and how far they have taken us to really ugly places.

[Kara Swisher]

We'll be embarrassed.

[Scott Galloway]

And when I Go online and I see all of these images around, these horrible images of what's happening in ICE raids. I feel so bad about America.

[Kara Swisher]

Yep, you said that.

[Scott Galloway]

And the rest of the world looks at us and goes, wow. And also they say they're distracted. Let's fly attack drones over Estonia. And it's bad for the brand. It takes our eyes off of real problems. It's really dividing America. I mean, it's like liberal cities versus the federal government. And not only that, it's incredibly fraught with risk. What happens if someone loses it and starts firing on these troops?

[Kara Swisher]

They are. Or opposite. The troops start firing on or the troops start firing. That's the more likely situation.

[Scott Galloway]

It's just not. And also it totally feeds into the juice, the mojo, the creatine of fascism. And that is that the enemy is within.

[Kara Swisher]

See, Scott, I don't think everybody. It doesn't divide us. It's the Trump administration doing this. I have not run into anyone who, including conservatives, who thinks it's a good thing. Like nobody, Nobody except for the occasional Fox person who's like, cities are crazy wall grounds, which are so ridiculous. People have never been to cities. So I just, I, I think polling shows that most people largely do not like this. Everybody.

[Scott Galloway]

I think there's actually, Kara, I think there's an uncomfortable number of people who are angry and have been convinced by Fox and Trump that these immigrants are disproportionately criminal and that they've hurt their economic well being and that these Democratics, these cities are so poorly run by virtue signaling Democrats that they, they're. They don't like it, but they're willing to tolerate it. Would you have thought.

[Kara Swisher]

I have a lot of concern. They don't like it. Nobody likes the troops in cities like that. I have encountered among my concerns. We're tolerating it, certainly that. But that's different than thinking. I don't think it's a. I just have this feeling people, this is. Of the many things like, look what set people off. Jimmy Kimmel. Right, The Jimmy Kimmel thing. What a surprise that this stuff sets people off too. It's like a look, it's like, no.

[Scott Galloway]

But look at the polling. We have some actual data here. New polling on these deployments revealed that 47% of those surveyed opposed the deployments in D.C. 46 opposed a deployment to Memphis, 49 opposed a deployment in the National Guard to cities for law enforcement, 52 opposed deployments to their local area. See, to me, only half of people oppose.

[Kara Swisher]

People are paying attention I don't think those people are vehement. I guess what I'm saying is I don't think they're vehement. I think they're passive. Passive, right. That's the difference. Anyway, we'll see. We'll see what happens here. You're right. The issue is there is going to be. Someone's going to. Sooner or later, someone's going to lose an eye. Like that expression, like, please.

[Scott Galloway]

Okay, let me back up. If there are organizations cooperating with ice, right? There are companies from ATT to Palantir cooperating the outrage and the pushback. The red line. If someone had said, okay, the masked. Basically a mass secret police force at the behest of the President is going into predominantly democratically run cities and in masks incarcerating and terrorizing some people who've been here for 10 and 20 years. And a small but non zero number of people are actually citizens and crazy, creating. Creating a sense of fear and terror in the homeland. Or a late night talk show host gets canceled for saying something innocuous about Charlie Kirk. Which one is going to trigger the red line? I wouldn't have thought it was Kimmel. I would have thought it had been this. I guess the question is, what can we do about it?

[Kara Swisher]

I think it's. Cause it's a slow burn. I think this is like, look, in the 60s it was a much slower burn. It felt like it wasn't a slow burn. We were children at the time. But I think it took Kent State. It took a number of things. The same thing with civil rights. It took that bridge, it took those images. Like it takes a thing. Unfortunately, it's often a violent thing. And so to me, the crossing line will be if the troops start shooting people and killing people. Like, Right. And I think it's a much slower burn on something like this. Like, I think it's a much slow. But we'll see.

[Scott Galloway]

I don't think I'm speaking out of school because this person called me, but a lot of people are running for president right now. And I said to this individual, like, okay, you're running for. Let's call this what it is, or you're running for president. Well, I'm just keeping my. Okay, just stop it. You're running for president. And the person ultimately came to. And I can never tell when people ask me for advice if they want my brain or they just want access to you or to the podcast, but it doesn't matter. They asked me for my advice or money. Fair enough. Thank you for that. And I said, in my opinion, the smartest thing you could do to be elected president right now would be to get arrested. Whatever high profile governor gets arrested first, has a moment to say, I'm sorry, I'm just not putting up with this, and gets arrested. I think that person jumps to the head of the police.

[Kara Swisher]

I like it. I like it. Should we get arrested?

[Scott Galloway]

I've never been arrested.

[Kara Swisher]

Of you, I have. Twice.

[Scott Galloway]

Twice.

[Kara Swisher]

Very briefly, I will tell once. I was riding my moped. They pulled me over.

[Scott Galloway]

Was that you in Vegas?

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. No, not In Vegas. In D.C. i was arrested. I'll just tell one of them. I was riding my moped back from something. I got pulled over. And at the time, D.C. was undergoing a lot of drug issues around crack. And so a lot of apparently dealers were on mopeds. And so they pulled me over.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, yeah, you look like a. I know.

[Kara Swisher]

So they pulled me over and I was like, what? Like, I didn't like. And then they wanted to look in my things.

[Scott Galloway]

I'm like, dealer in the wizard of Oz.

[Kara Swisher]

Yes, exactly. And I said, you can't look at my stuff. You can't. You don't. I don't. There's no cost.

[Scott Galloway]

You don't consent to search.

[Kara Swisher]

It's just because it's a moped. I'm like a college student. I was the Washington Post at the time. And they pulled me. I was like, you can't look at my thing. I won't open it. And so they said, can you turn around? And I just. I turned around and then they cuffed me and they. Because I refused to let them look inside. You know, the seat of the moped has stuff in it. Like, I wouldn't open it. And they. They put me in one of those paddy wagons and they. I was like flying around the paddy wagon they take. It was the park police, too, who arrested me, I think. And then. So I. Or maybe it was so Secret Service. I don't know. I was way over in Haynes Point. They stuck me in a cell. They char. They put me to the wall. They took my belt, my. My, My shoelaces. I'm like, I'm committing suicide over this. I was such a ridiculous. I should have been. And today I shouldn't behave like that. But I was a kid, and so I was super rude. And my friend Renee Sanchez, who was the editor of the St Paul or the Minneapolis paper and now is doing this amazing thing in Louisiana, he and I were interns together, and he came at the Post, and he came and Got me and just laughed his ass off. I didn't have anyone else to call. Anyway, that was it. And I was arrested. Oh, I was arrested for making out in a public. As a lesbian. I'm not going to go into that.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, my God.

[Kara Swisher]

I know. I fell asleep.

[Scott Galloway]

Indecent exposure. Tell me more.

[Kara Swisher]

I was somewhat naked.

[Scott Galloway]

Tell me more.

[Kara Swisher]

I was somewhat naked in a public park and fell asleep at night making out with a girl. And they let me off. Let's just say.

[Scott Galloway]

I just gotta say I knew I was partners with you for a reason. I knew. I felt you. Literally. I didn't think you could command any more respect from me. I was wrong.

[Kara Swisher]

Wrong.

[Scott Galloway]

I was wrong.

[Kara Swisher]

I forgot about that. That was bad.

[Scott Galloway]

He got arrested. Yeah.

[Kara Swisher]

Because I was making out with a girl and we were naked outside.

[Scott Galloway]

That's awesome. That is.

[Kara Swisher]

Aw.

[Scott Galloway]

Hold the phone. You're my queen. You're my queen.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, they let us off of the war. They did. They're, like, putting, like. It was close. It was an international.

[Scott Galloway]

I've had. I'm the guy that gets people out of prison.

[Kara Swisher]

I know, I know.

[Scott Galloway]

Was lucky excited to get that.

[Kara Swisher]

But can I just tell you, at the time, it was bad to be. You know, it was, like, scary to be found out as a lesbian at the time. By the way, it was International Lesbian Day on Wednesday. And I still haven't gotten my flowers from you, but that's okay. No problem.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, that's because I take the day off to pray and listen to Melissa.

[Kara Swisher]

All right. You made me tell a story I really didn't want to tell. Okay, we're going to move on for a quick break. We'll be back.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, my God.

[Kara Swisher]

I know.

[Scott Galloway]

I'll tell you, that is a new spin on the trailer. I know.

[Kara Swisher]

You know what? When you come to dc, I'll show you where I was.

[Scott Galloway]

That is literally the only reason I'm going to watch your biopic. Just so I can see that scene.

[Kara Swisher]

Anyway, someone hot to play you. It was in my Honda Civic. I had a Honda Civic. It was. Oh, God, now I'm remembering the whole horrible thing.

[Scott Galloway]

If this Civic's a rockin' don't come.

[Kara Swisher]

A knocking Let me just say it's. I have to tell you, at the time, it was terrifying because everybody posited, you know. Now today, I'd be like, yeah, I'm naked.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, so people didn't know.

[Kara Swisher]

No, but it was bad to be gay. Like, people were not nice to gay police particularly.

[Scott Galloway]

I've heard. So you had to call Lucky and say, mom, I've got two things. I've got bad news and I've got worse news.

[Kara Swisher]

No. You think I'm called Lucky? Lucky stopped parenting when I was 6 years old.

[Scott Galloway]

Who sprung you from jail, you little saucy minxy?

[Kara Swisher]

No, I didn't go to jail for that. When they let me out there, I talked my way out of it, but they gave me a summons and everything else. But the jail was the moped drug dealer, the crack dealer was the jailing. Okay, that's enough.

[Scott Galloway]

All right. Good for you.

[Kara Swisher]

And now I'm turning red.

[Scott Galloway]

I can't top that. I can't top that.

[Kara Swisher]

Can I just tell you, I think it'd be you that would be indecently exposing things, but it's. You'd think so, yeah. All right, one more quick break. We'll be back for predictions.

[Scott Galloway]

The holidays have arrived at the Home Depot and we're here to help bring the excitement with decor for every part of your home. Check out our wide assortment of easy to assemble pre lit trees so you can spend less time setting up and more time celebrating. And bring your holiday spirit outdoors with unique decor like one of our Santa inflatables. Whatever your style, find the right pieces at the right prices this holiday season at the Home Depot.

[Kara Swisher]

Scott, we're hitting the road, bringing Pivot live to the people. Seven cities. Toronto, Boston, New York, dc, Chicago, San Francisco and la.

[Scott Galloway]

Of course, you went to Oasis, you went to Beyonce, you saw the remake of wizard of Oz and the Sphere. All those suck compared to the Pivot tour. This is the biggest tour. Same people that are organizing our tour, that organized Taylor Swift's tour, they are much more excited about our tour.

[Kara Swisher]

All right, that's enough, Grandpa. It's going to be so good. And we're bringing our brand of whatever we do to the people. And we're excited to meet our fans. We love our fans. For Tickets, head to PivotTour.com See you there.

[Scott Galloway]

Today.

[Shawn Ramis]

Explain from Vox, Shawn Ramis for him, also from Vox, I'm soon to be the father of a daughter and my dad's pretty excited about that because he always wanted a daughter. He wanted me to be a girl. And that's all the time we have to talk about that. But the other day he sent me a video.

[Kara Swisher]

Hello, friend.

[Shawn Ramis]

A YouTube short of a girl singing. It was titled 12 Year Old Sings for Heroes, Dad. And he said, hope my granddaughter learns this song one day. But nothing about this video seemed right. For starters, the girl looks like she's 6 and not 12. The description reads, the heartwarming song that the father taught his daughter before the accident. What accident? The mouth movements don't line up, the shots of the crowd, the lighting. Everything is too perfect. And that's why it had to be AI Slop. I wrote back to my dad, this video is, unfortunately, artificial intelligence. And we haven't talked since.

[Scott Galloway]

Just kidding.

[Shawn Ramis]

But my dad's not the only one getting duped by AI Slop. A lot of you are. And pretty soon the rest of us will join you because we are in our AI Slop era. Hear all about it on Today. Explained.

[Kara Swisher]

Okay, Scott, we're going to use predictions slightly differently. You and I are going to do guesses and see how. Who's right on two predictions. Okay, so, Nobel Peace Prize. We're recording this ahead of the Nobel Peace Prize announcement, which is tomorrow or today or later today. Trump has been so thirsty for this prize. The committee reportedly made their decision about this year's award on Monday. So before the Gaza deal was announced. I think Navalny's spouse is going to get the Nobel Prize and in his name. Both of them. Right. I think he's going to get it. I think it's. It's gonna be. She's gonna accept it on his behalf. That's what I think.

[Scott Galloway]

I like that one. I'm not. I'm gonna go with other. I think it's been so politicized. I think they're gonna pick an organization like, I don't know, Sudan's Emergency Response.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, that's the top. In polymarket. Yeah, that's the top one.

[Scott Galloway]

Because I think this whole thing's been so politicized that I think they wanna avoid it. And they're gonna pick something that's gonna be hard to criticize. It's not an individual.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, okay. All right.

[Scott Galloway]

So like something like the International Criminal Court, the icc.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, maybe.

[Scott Galloway]

Cause if I'm on the fucking committee, I just. It's so charged. It's so.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. Except look, the Pope is doubling down on politics. I think they will. I think they're like, fuck this guy.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah.

[Kara Swisher]

And if he does the Gaza thing next year, he can have it next year. If he does it and it sticks, he deserves it.

[Scott Galloway]

Right, so you think Trump deserves it.

[Kara Swisher]

If he ends the conflict in Ukraine and Gaza. Yes, yes. I can't stand him. But if he. If he is the critical person.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, I think you're giving him way too much credit. I think if we had a better president, both of those conflicts, I think we would have had A peacekeeping force already, and I think fair.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, then he caused the problem. Okay. All right.

[Scott Galloway]

Tomahawk missiles destroying the oil infrastructure and they would have already come to the table.

[Kara Swisher]

You're right, you're right, you're right.

[Scott Galloway]

But you know I'm biased, so you're.

[Kara Swisher]

Going for the other and I'm going for the naval.

[Scott Galloway]

I'm going for a non person. I'm betting on a non person. I'm going for an organ. I'm betting on an organization as opposed to a person.

[Kara Swisher]

Smart. That's smart, too. But I'm going to go for her because I think he's a hero. The second is the government shutdown. The length of the government shutdown odds are currently at 62% for shutdown going longer than 20 days. But if these flight delays get worse. By the way, I had one yesterday when I was taking some flights from the Midwest. Do you predict it will end sooner or can people just hitch a ride on your plane?

[Scott Galloway]

Scott, how many days in are we, Kara?

[Kara Swisher]

I don't know. Like a week and a half? 7, 8, 8, 9, 10?

[Scott Galloway]

Um, I'll go. I'll take. I don't know. It's the over the under. I'll go longer just because. Shit takes a while. I do think that they're gonna come. By the way. I thought Kaitlan Collins did a fantastic interview with Representative Jordan. Yeah, I thought she was great.

[Kara Swisher]

She's killing it.

[Scott Galloway]

Great. Getting back in his face.

[Kara Swisher]

I wrote her a note about that question she asked about Ghislaine Maxwell.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, I thought she was great with Representative Jordan. I think that there and again, I'm in my filter bubble, so I see the stuff. Stuff that the algorithms think I want to see. I think the Republicans are going to come up with something that gives the Democrats the ability to say, to claim victory.

[Kara Swisher]

Here you see Marjorie Taylor Greene going.

[Scott Galloway]

You want to talk about a statement? Our society. What does it mean when Marjorie Taylor Greene is the sane one in the Republican Party right now? And she's also been very effective. She personalized it. She said, my kids. The premium for my kids is about.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, I was like, who is this person who.

[Scott Galloway]

And to. I've been openly critical of Leodore Jeffries and Senate Minority Leader Schumer. They have been very smart going after healthcare. They have very pointed.

[Kara Swisher]

Did you see him go after Lawler? Lawler came and tried to, like, thirsty up the situation. Jeffrey Star.

[Scott Galloway]

That was his best social media post yet. You posted it.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. That was Schumer. That was Schumer. He Definitely looked old as dirt, but actually it was effective.

[Scott Galloway]

Looking old as dirt. He is old as dirt.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, but it worked. He worked in his favor in that regard. All right, so wait, you're picking what time?

[Scott Galloway]

He's slightly younger than Tim Cook's father.

[Kara Swisher]

Anyways, I'm picking 47 days, just like those Trump people.

[Scott Galloway]

47?

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, that's what they want it to be. The number of his presidency.

[Scott Galloway]

If it's. I'm not exaggerating. If it's 47, that'll ruin our pivot tour, because I think you're gonna have a shutdown in the FAA or the air traffic controllers.

[Kara Swisher]

All right. Okay.

[Scott Galloway]

All right. I heard Nashville airport is pretty much almost close.

[Kara Swisher]

It was actually. No, it wasn't. I got in. Yeah. You know, I talked to all the TSA people. They were lovely. I have shout out to the TSA people working yesterday.

[Scott Galloway]

Did you get caught making out at the bed? God.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, my God. One time at tsa, I bought a set of handcuffs in New Orleans. And it was in my bag and I didn't forgot I had bought them. I bought them from gangster friend. I do not like handcuffs, but I bought them for a friend. I put them, threw them in the bag because they have all that stuff in New Orleans. And someone pulled them out and just dangled them in front of me. In front of everybody. That is. Oh, God. Jesus. I'm a terrible person.

[Scott Galloway]

You literally. You were arrested for sex and drugs. All we're missing is rock and roll here.

[Kara Swisher]

No drugs. No drugs.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, they. They thought you were a drug dealer. Although, I gotta be honest, I don't think you look much like a drug dealer.

[Kara Swisher]

I don't think that's why I got all testy. That's. Anyway, whatever. I was in a jail. I was jailed, actually.

[Scott Galloway]

You're like the guts feeling that. Selling tusi or ketamine to all your sorority sisters.

[Kara Swisher]

I wouldn't do that. Let me just say.

[Scott Galloway]

In exchange for sexual favors in a park.

[Kara Swisher]

You know, sending a lesbian to jail is not that scary for a lesbian. Just so you know. Anyway, I saw Orange as a new. It looked kind of fun. Anyway, we want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business, tech, or whatever's on your mind.

[Scott Galloway]

Gold coins and lesbian sex and parks. That's why they come here, Kara. That's why they come here.

[Kara Swisher]

Okay, we want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business, tech, or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com pivot to submit a question.

[Scott Galloway]

This is not CNN this is not CNN.

[Kara Swisher]

Call 85551 pivot. Elsewhere in the Kara and Scott universe on this week on property markets SC with Katherine and Edwards, economist and columnist for Bloomberg News. Let's listen to a clip. This was terrific interview by the way. You can't function in a $30 trillion economy with the data that you need to manage it. If you are starving your statistical agencies for funds, which we've been doing for the past 15 years, firing the BLS commissioner, halting government data collection, we are pushing over the edge something that was already deeply problematic. So we're can see this as a well, we should have done the right thing 20 years ago. But doesn't matter when you get to the party as long as you brought a bottle of wine. That was great. That was really good.

[Scott Galloway]

I'm coming back as an economist, a Navy SEAL or a Broadway dancer. Those are my three things. Maybe a chiropractor, you would be really.

[Kara Swisher]

Good as an economist. And reminder, we're going on tour. As we said, we'll be going to Toronto, Boston, New York, D.C. chicago, San Francisco and LA. Visit PivotTour.com for tickets which are going fast. Several cities are sold out. And please, please stay away from scalpers and third party sellers. Very quickly before we go, I wanna put a shout out to Marie Samuels. She's a fifth grader who came up to me yesterday in an event I was at in Minneapolis and she asked an amazing question about what we should do about kids and social media. Such a smart kid. She actually started a fourth grade newspaper late last year and she's now in fifth grade and they sent me copies of it and it's wonderful. Marie, you're gonna be an amazing journalist someday. I just want to say that.

[Scott Galloway]

That's nice.

[Kara Swisher]

Okay. She was astonishing amount of poise she had and a great question. Anyway, I really appreciate that. And again, keep going. You did. You're doing a great job so far. Okay, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot and be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back next week. Scott, read us out.

[Scott Galloway]

Today's show was produced by Lara Naiman, Zoe Marcus, Taylor Griffin and Annika Robbins. Ernie Anderson engineered this episode. Jim Mackle edited the video. Thanks also to Drew Burroughs. Mr. Verandan. Shalom. The shocker is Vox me as executive producer podcast. Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform. Thank you for listening to Pivot from New York magazine, Vox Media. You can subscribe to the [e-mail] pod. We'll be back later this week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. Folks, we do need to reopen the government. We need our military, we need to pay our great employees, and we need to keep those national parks open so Garrett can get some. I love that. I love that.