Comcast Splits, OpenAI Weighs IPO Delay, and Buttigieg Targeted

Summary

Pivot Podcast Summary — June 30, 2026 Episode Title: Comcast Splits, OpenAI Weighs IPO Delay, and Buttigieg Targeted
Hosts: Kara Swisher & Scott Galloway

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Episode Overview

This episode is packed with tech, media, and political analysis, featuring the trademark humor and sharp commentary of hosts Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway. The central themes include Comcast's surprising spinoff of NBCUniversal and Sky, OpenAI potentially postponing a high-profile IPO amidst fierce competition from Anthropic, and the disturbing targeting of Pete Buttigieg's family. The hosts also reflect on recent wins and losses in media, law, and politics.

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Key Topics & Insights

1. Media Banter & Chemistry (01:48–06:21)

• Hosts discuss an AP profile on Kara and her “unlikely chemistry” with Scott.
  • Notable quote: “She and Galloway have developed a strong, if unlikely chemistry in which his penchant for vulgarities can make her seem almost highbrow.” — Kara Swisher, reading the AP (02:13)
• Kara jokingly ponders picking the next President and the merits of celebrity candidates.
  • Scott: “I would pick Mayor Pete. I’m doing an event with him soon.” (03:48)
• Quick segues into political preferences (Democrats and Republicans the hosts admire) and comedic riffs on policy and personal quirks.

2. Personal Notes & Weather Chitchat (06:21–07:20)

• Location check-in: Scott in a sweaty London, Kara heading to a hot Vermont.
• Quick commentary on Europe’s heatwave and its impact.

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3. Comcast Splits Off NBCUniversal and Sky (07:20–19:18)

[Start: 07:20]

What Happened?

• Comcast is spinning off NBCUniversal and Sky into a new public company, retaining only its broadband/Xfinity/wireless assets.
• The rationale: separate the growth-oriented media/entertainment arm from a broadband business in structural decline.

Why Now & What’s the Play?

• Scott’s Explanation:
  • Classic case of “conglomerates gone wild”—Valuable assets get undervalued when stuffed together. (08:52–09:59)
  • Media & theme parks are growing rapidly (Up to 61% for media last quarter!) while connectivity shrinks.
  • Breaking them up lets investors target “pure plays” (growth or cash cow)—a market trend.

Kara’s Analysis:

• Expresses surprise about the timing and rationale.
• Raises questions about future mergers, especially if Netflix or Disney would acquire parts of the new entity.
• Notes that Disney is intentionally not following this strategy, keeping linear and streaming businesses together. (12:20–13:16)

Scott on Broader Industry Moves:

• The move to spin off is about maximizing shareholder value, not investor diversification (14:04–14:55).
• Snap as an example: “If Snap spun their Spectacles group, the stock would triple or quadruple.” (15:13)

Synergies and Future Possibilities:

• Media/parks vertical integration (films feed theme park rides).
• Connectivity/cable assets become efficient, cash-generating “declining” businesses—good targets for consolidation.
• Management at Comcast & Hearst praised for competence and strategic sharpness.

Notable Quotes:

• “Stocks that break up often soar… There’s a stock right now that if it broke up, it would triple. ...Snap.” — Scott Galloway (15:00)
• “Comcast and Hearst are the most underrated management teams in media...they do the right thing for shareholders.” — Scott Galloway (18:07)

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4. OpenAI Mulls IPO Delay Amid Anthropic Rivalry (22:30–30:37)

[Start: 22:30]

Background:

• OpenAI was planning an IPO as soon as late 2026, chasing a $1 trillion valuation (already $850B as of March).
• Mounting financials: Losses increased 8x, spending projected at $34B—raising big questions.

Why the Possible Delay?

• The rise of Anthropic: “We’ve never seen Avis overtake Hertz this fast...everyone’s swapping out OpenAI for Anthropic.” — Scott Galloway (24:16)
• If forced to “open their cupboards,” OpenAI would be exposed as both losing momentum to Anthropic and burning through cash at an unsustainable rate.

Strategic Analysis:

• Anthropic likely to proceed with IPO, poised to set the narrative and financial benchmark.
• Altman’s gamble on spending/capex is “too much—even for big tech.”
• Side-by-side S-1 filings would show OpenAI looking risky and profligate versus leaner Anthropic.

Predictions:

• OpenAI will be forced into a “great exit from cost”—radical reduction in burn rate and capex before attempting IPO.
• Anthropic “has the better story,” and the delay is to avoid direct, unfavorable comparison.

Notable Quotes:

• “The reversal in fortunes here has been like nothing I’ve ever seen in business without a scandal.” — Scott Galloway (27:57)
• “The second half of 2026 is about Sam Altman rationalizing the expense side of the business.” — Scott Galloway (28:57)
• “If I were Dario [Amodei, CEO Anthropic], I’d want to be like, ‘I’m on top, bitch. I’m going public.’” — Scott Galloway (29:25)
• “It’s a cost story...they’ve just gotta clean it up.” — Kara Swisher (27:55)

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5. Pete Buttigieg & Family Targeted by Child Protective Services Tip (31:34–38:41)

[Start: 31:34]

Incident:

• Police and CPS arrived at Pete Buttigieg’s home after a false, anonymous tip accused him and his husband of child endangerment.
• For 24 hours, Buttigieg could not be alone with his children; children interviewed without parents.

Kara’s Take:

• The incident is as traumatic as it is “heinous,” highlighting the vulnerability of LGBTQ+ parents to malicious, anonymous targeting. (33:01)

Scott Broadens the Analysis:

• “This isn’t a gay thing. This is stochastic terrorism.” He recounts a similar case affecting a straight couple.
• Blames the architecture of internet anonymity and lack of accountability for escalating such attacks.

Policy Suggestions:

• Calls for “verified yet anonymous credentialing”—reporters’ identities protected unless they file false claims.
• Real-world consequences should follow proven malicious reports (36:03).

Notable Quotes:

• “How does a 4-year-old not remember that?” — Scott Galloway (34:03)
• “When the loudest voices face no consequences, the most thoughtful ones log off in fear.” — Scott Galloway (35:01)
• “The Internet doesn’t have a speech problem, it has an accountability problem.” — Scott Galloway (37:02)
• “If it prevents him from running, which I hope it doesn’t… They’re wonderful parents.” — Kara Swisher (38:02)

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6. Rapid Notes: Housing Bill Politics & Trump’s Refusal to Sign (38:41–43:02)

• Bipartisan housing bill passed (358-32) aimed at lowering costs and boosting construction.
• Trump threatens veto, tying signature to a controversial voting bill (photo ID, ending mail-in voting).
• Most likely outcome: he takes credit anyway, but the bill becomes law regardless.

Notable Quote:
“Housing is a weird form of birth control...every 10% increase in housing prices, birth rates go down 1%.” — Scott Galloway (40:10)

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7. Wins and Fails (43:02–55:54)

[Begins: 43:02]

Kara’s Fails:

• Personal losses: Om Malik (early tech blogger/Venture capitalist) and former assistant Ed Daley.
• “Just really sad... just one of these hardworking, really wonderful people who helped so many people.”

Kara’s Win:

• Supreme Court upholds $5M sexual abuse verdict against Trump in E. Jean Carroll case.
• “Congratulations to E. Jean Carroll and pay up, Donald Trump.”

Scott’s Fails:

• Disgust with elected officials dodging difficult questions, especially on Trump labeling Senator Mark Kelly as “seditious.”
• “At NYU we have this leadership course...Let me save you $7,000: Do the right thing, even when it’s hard.” (47:41)

Scott’s Win:

• Bill Maher receives the Mark Twain Award for American Humor.
• Pays tribute to Maher as a rare, centrist, and fearless voice who “pisses off everybody” and models the necessity of disagreement in democracy (52:00–55:41).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “A chicken in every pot, a Cialis in every cupboard.”
  — Scott Galloway, joking about his imaginary presidential platform (05:48)

• “Comcast and Hearst are the most underrated management teams in media.”
  — Scott Galloway (18:07)

• “If Snap spun their Spectacles group, the stock would triple or quadruple.”
  — Scott Galloway (15:13)

• “I think the S1 is going to look really good for Anthropic.”
  — Scott Galloway on upcoming IPOs (29:34)

• “The Internet doesn’t have a speech problem, it has an accountability problem.”
  — Scott Galloway (37:02)

• “Bill Maher is a hero of mine…He literally pisses off everybody.”
  — Scott Galloway (52:00–53:49)

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Timestamps for Key Sections

| Segment | Timestamp (MM:SS) | |---|---| | Hosts Banter & Personal Chemistry | 01:48–06:21 | | Comcast’s Spinoff & Industry Analysis | 07:20–19:18 | | OpenAI IPO Delay, Anthropic Rivalry | 22:30–30:37 | | Pete Buttigieg Targeted by CPS Tip | 31:34–38:41 | | Housing Bill Moves | 38:41–43:02 | | Wins & Fails | 43:02–55:54 | | Bill Maher Tribute | 52:00–55:54 |

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Tone and Language

• As ever, the conversation is equal parts sharp analysis and irreverent banter, peppered with profanity, sarcasm, and offbeat analogies that typify Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway’s style.
• Willingness to call out both industry and political hypocrisy, paired with sincere moments reflecting on loss, injustice, and public service.

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Summary in a Sentence:
A trademark Pivot episode: hard-hitting analysis of media and tech shakeups, the rocky path for OpenAI, and the real-life impacts of information manipulation—delivered with incisive humor, frankness, and not a small amount of heartfelt reflection.

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For Further Listening:
Check out the July 5 episode for deeper dives, and watch for upcoming appearances from Kara and Scott with media execs and on Bill Maher’s show.

Transcript

[Scott Galloway]

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[Kara Swisher]

Exclusions apply.

[Scott Galloway]

Seehomedepot.com Pricematch for details.

[Kara Swisher]

Are you feeling stuck? I'm Rapinart Sohn, VPN head instructor at Peloton. I've watched literally millions of people try to transform their lives and I have heard the same five sentences hold people back. So this week on Project Swagger we're doing a self talk audit. I am going to name each of these destructive sentences and tell you what it's costing you and give you the reframe the swap you need to unlock your true potential. Let's go follow Project Swagger now. Wherever you get your podcasts, Megan Rapinoe here this week on A Touch More the Beautiful Game. I am sitting down with fashion designer, DJ and the Washington Spirits First Ever Creative Director Domo Wells in her LA studio. We talk about Domo's unusual path towards sports fandom and how her work as a DJ makes her a better designer and what designing for women's athletes and their fans should actually look like. Check out the latest episode of A Touch More wherever you get your podcasts and on YouTube. Can I just tell you I love the word vulgar. I love the word vulgarities. You are vulgar, sir. Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher.

[Scott Galloway]

And I'm Scott Galloway.

[Kara Swisher]

Scott, they just did a profile me the AP did.

[Scott Galloway]

And who did they call?

[Kara Swisher]

You. You and Gavin Newsom. Two men. White men I annoy all the time. And also Thom Tillis. All white guys.

[Scott Galloway]

Well it's funny when meet us they mistake us for one another. Me and G. Me and Governor Newsom.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, yeah. Except for the hair part.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah. Except for the handsome tall part.

[Kara Swisher]

Handsome. Dreamy. Dreamy.

[Scott Galloway]

None of that.

[Kara Swisher]

Let me read the description of our relationship. I did not. I did not put him up to this. She and Galloway have developed a strong, if unlikely chemistry in which his penchant full vulgarities can make her seem almost highbrow.

[Scott Galloway]

It reminds me of Coco Chanel has a great quote. She says the opposite of luxury is not poverty. It's vulgarity and so you're Coco Chanel.

[Kara Swisher]

I am Coco Chanel.

[Scott Galloway]

No, I'm not.

[Kara Swisher]

I'm not a Nazi.

[Scott Galloway]

Coco Chanel.

[Kara Swisher]

Can I just tell you, I love the word.

[Scott Galloway]

The lady Nazis. Sorry, I had to.

[Kara Swisher]

Lazies. I love the word vulgarity.

[Scott Galloway]

Vulgarity. You know what I find? You know what's most shocking? You know what's most shocking about the vulgarity? Is that I think women like it more than the men. I get more positive feedback on the dick jokes from the women than the men.

[Kara Swisher]

Really. I get a lot of. And I like him. And then like, I get that. That happens a lot.

[Scott Galloway]

That. By the way, that piece for the ap. I mean, I don't wanna call it a puff piece. Cause AP doesn't really do puff. But it was pretty complimentary.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, it was. I'm a power broker.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, my. Oh, that's right. They made it sound like you're the new kingmaker. You're gonna decide, I guess, by the way, who's gonna be the next president? Cause according to ap, you get to

[Kara Swisher]

decide the nano bubbler Lincoln Memorial because it can fix the algae. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Who shall I select among the many fine people of the country?

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah.

[Kara Swisher]

I would pick Mark Cuban. Honestly, I would.

[Scott Galloway]

Really?

[Kara Swisher]

That's who I'd pick. Yeah, I would. I would like that. Because I'd get to go to the Lincoln Bedroom. Largely.

[Scott Galloway]

I don't think business people should be president.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, you're right. Maybe he wouldn't be good. Who would we pick? Pick a celeb.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, I mean, a magic wand. Anybody?

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

I don't think you can get through the Democratic primary. But in terms of pure intellect. Served his country. I would pick Mayor Pete.

[Kara Swisher]

Mayor Pete. I'm doing an event with him soon. Oh, we're going to talk about him.

[Scott Galloway]

Lately, I love him and I know. I just. I love high IQ people. I think at some point SM smart intelligence has to make a comeback in the Oval Office.

[Kara Swisher]

He would be a good.

[Scott Galloway]

There's a lot of good. There's a lot of people I'd like to be president. I'd love Governor Newsom, Governor Shapiro, Governor Pritzker.

[Kara Swisher]

Is there any Republican you like?

[Scott Galloway]

I think Ambassador Haley is quite talented.

[Kara Swisher]

If she would stop sucking up. If she would just.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, there's no way to survive. Come on.

[Kara Swisher]

I know.

[Scott Galloway]

There's no way to survive that orbit. Any Republicans.

[Kara Swisher]

I think there's a move for someone who does resist. Interestingly, oddly enough, somebody who's quoting the Beast. I thought when he finally got his balls. Thom Tillis was really smart and like very good business person, really sharp. He was actually very supportive of gay rights, oddly enough, in the state.

[Scott Galloway]

I agree.

[Kara Swisher]

If I had picked that person, someone I didn't disagree with a lot, but Mike Gallagher, I was always impressed with, although we totally disagree. He had some really gross gay issue stuff, but like smart people. Smart. Smart is what we're talking about. Smart, right?

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah. I mean, have you ever wanted Romney to be president more? Yeah, I don't know. I think there's a lot of. I think there's some talented Republicans. They've been benched and kind of shoved off to the side. And also just on an objective level, and I realize I'm not objective, but there's some objectivity here. I think the Democrats have an outstanding. Ossoff is giving great Camelot energy right now. I think Mark Kelly doesn't have kind of the riz of a president, but he'd be an outstanding president.

[Kara Swisher]

Vice president too.

[Scott Galloway]

It'd be interesting. There's a ton of Secretary of Defense.

[Kara Swisher]

That's what they should do for him. If the Democrats.

[Scott Galloway]

100%. He'll be in the cabinet.

[Kara Swisher]

That would be so good.

[Scott Galloway]

He'll be in cabinet and as long as the governor gets to appoint the next center.

[Kara Swisher]

Anyways, anyway. I don't know. I vote for the vulgar Scott Galloway.

[Scott Galloway]

There you go. A chicken in every pot, a Cialis in every cupboard.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, my God.

[Scott Galloway]

Galloway.

[Kara Swisher]

You thought grump was crazy.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, my God.

[Kara Swisher]

Get ready for us.

[Scott Galloway]

Had a Patrick, my male escort in the Lincoln bedroom just for. Hello lady. I'd open a dispensary. You want to see a UFC fight? I'm opening a dispensary on the east wall.

[Kara Swisher]

True. And I would like. I would have the nano bubbler business everywhere. I'd be bubbling nanos, everything. I don't even know what that is. Let me just tell you. Nano bubbler for president. Anyway, we got. We've got so much to get today. What else is going on? Scott, where are you? London.

[Scott Galloway]

I'm in London, where It's down to 72. But it's really interesting when it's 70. When it's 78 in Southern California, it feels pleasant. A lot of breeze. When it's 78 here, it feels like Africa.

[Kara Swisher]

I didn't mind that. Yeah. You didn't like it there. Let me see.

[Scott Galloway]

It's so hot.

[Kara Swisher]

That was hot as fuckity fuck in France.

[Scott Galloway]

And the metaphor for the UK is the following I have air conditioning. Except when you need it, it doesn't work. If it's 65 degrees, I can cool my house to 55, but once it gets above 80, it just doesn't work. Oh, wow.

[Kara Swisher]

They're not good with the air conditioning there. They gotta good with it because every summer it seems worse and worse. I mean, they're ovens, those apartments. They really are. They're really France.

[Scott Galloway]

Last week France was the hottest place on earth. It's because the dog was wearing shorts.

[Kara Swisher]

You were by the ocean. But in Paris it was very hot. I am headed to Vermont where it's going to be really hot here, here and it's going to be hot there. It's going to be hot all across the east coast this week. This heat stuff is really something.

[Scott Galloway]

It is really something.

[Kara Swisher]

We got to really think hard. By the way, data centers. No. Anyway, we've got a lot to get to today, so let's dig in. There's so much news. Scott even participated in the group chat. He was like, there's too much news. What's going on? But actually his selections were correct. Cause the first one is something I think I was a little. Was I surprised? Comcast is spinning off NBCUniversal and Sky into a separate publicly traded company. The new NBCUniversal will include NBC, the Universal film studio, theme parks and Sky. This is the satellite service they have in Europe. Comcast keeps Xfinity, Internet and wireless. So it's to square one. I guess. The market liked it. Comcast shares jumped 21% in pre market trading Monday morning. It's not a totally clean break. Comcast will hold a roughly 20% stake in the new NBC Universal. I think they still have a big stake in Ms. Now too. And the deal is expected to close in about a year. There's a catch though, analysts say, well, The Spinoff gives NBCUniversal more freedom to do deals. That leaves Comcast's broadband business more exposed at a time when cable is already under pressure. Pressure. So talk about this. The people they're putting in place are very good executives. But does NBC now now remerge with Ms. Now or what in the. I don't. You need to explain this to me. I really didn't quite understand why they're doing it now, what the troubles they're seeking. I know they had looked at buying Warner at one point. So could Netflix buy NBCUniversal? There's a lot there. There's a lot at those studios. So, thoughts?

[Scott Galloway]

So this is why companies conglomerate. The board who decides to see as compensation hires a firm called Towers Parent. Because compensation is the hardest part and one of the most important things that a board does. And because boards don't want to do any work, they pay this firm, Towers Parent, two or three hundred thousand dollars. And they come in with a survey, and the survey says on a scale of 0 to 150 being the average compensation, and they look at the industry and the size of the business. And so if you're running a bank that does 10 billion a year in business, 50% might be 3 million a year. But if you're running a bank that does 80 billion in business or whatever, then the average compensation is 20 million. So the incentives and also the ego and also the testosterone and the penis and the midlife crisis all lead incentives for the CEO to get bigger and bigger and bigger. And sometimes there are real synergies around different businesses, but almost always, not typically, what happens is you end up with a Frankenstein. And so the market gets to a point where you have these Frankensteins of businesses that had no synergy. And what the market.

[Kara Swisher]

Can I change the Metaverse? It's a turducken.

[Scott Galloway]

A turducken. Thank you for that. And what the market has a tendency to do is it looks at the shittiest business, because it says, there's no synergy here. And it says, okay, New York Times, you own 17% of the Boston Red Sox and the seventh tallest building in America. This, this is how much the building is worth. This is how much the Boston Red Sox are worth. But instead, we're going to look at your shittiest business, your regional newspapers, which trade at 4 to 5 times EBITDA. And we're going to assign that multiple to the entire business because they don't give you any credit for the stuff that's working really well. So the disposition of assets becomes accretive to shareholders. And in this case, you have a media business that's strong and growing while the connectivity business is shrinking. And what they do is shareholders assign the multiple on the connectivity business to the strong and growing business. Last quarter, the media division, get this, reported a 40% increase in revenue to nearly 12 billion. For the quarter, theme parks grew 24%, media grew 61%, and studios grew 21%. And over the same period, the connectivity division shrunk revenues 3%. So what you have is that.

[Kara Swisher]

So it's connectivity that's not as.

[Scott Galloway]

That's right. Residential connectivity shrunk about 4% while business connectivity grew 6%. So what happens is if you split these things apart, you have one company, the connectivity business, which is a mature business that's in structural decline but still spends off a ton of cash. And then you have a growth business. When it becomes a pure play, growth business gets a much higher multiple. And the result is, is a stock that was up 25% based on these two companies that have more focus.

[Kara Swisher]

So what happens to each of them is there like, look, you have Ms. They split off Ms. Now. And now it's trying to create its own little new division and doing well for what it is. Right. It actually has seen some growth under those executives. And then you have the media business that has. By the way, there's some fine executives at the media part, very well run company. Donna Langley, I think Mike, or Mike. Anyway, it's a very smart group of people. Whenever I meet them, I'm always so impressed. But they weren't able to participate in the Warner thing, for example. And I know it was frustrating because they were actually the natural owner for that.

[Scott Galloway]

Agreed.

[Kara Swisher]

You know, I was like, of all the things, I was like Paramount, they're a bunch of incompetence. Netflix is too big and gonna get in trouble. Comcast was the perfect buyer for that. You know, in terms of quality people and the theme parks and everything else. So what happens here? And the other thing, just for as a side, like the other two things. Could Netflix come in and do something here? I think it's too much. Disney CFO has signaled they intend to keep the linear and streaming businesses together for now. They know they don't own a cable division and not split it off. So they're keeping those together, the studios and the streaming and everything else. So is the strategy. It seems like it's the same strategy if they're going to hold on to NBC Universal, film studio, theme parks and Sky. Right. So that's a little connectivity, I guess. But thoughts on that? What happens to each of these parts? What happens to the cable parts? And then what happens to the. I mean, could like Elon come in and buy the cable parts for Starlink or there were rumors of him buying one of the phone service businesses. Thoughts?

[Scott Galloway]

Well, I mean, it's scary, but with a $2 trillion market cap, there's very little he couldn't buy right now. Right. So Versant, their Stock is down 21% since the spinoff. I don't know what happens. Okay, first off, Disney for the time being is holding onto its cable assets. That means no one's offered the price they want. It will make Sense for them to shed that business. Because the IRL business, the parks, is an unbelievable business. So this is all a long winded way of saying I'm not sure what they're going to do. But they have simplified and created pure plays. Because here's the bottom line. If you put yourself in the shoes of an investor, they don't need the Roberts family to diversify. Four of them CEOs love diversification. Why? Okay, my connectivity business is down, but my parks are up 24%. In other words, they sleep better at night because they can grow 6, 8, 10% a year and not worry that oh fuck, I got a problem at msnbc. Whereas this is the thing though, investors. I don't need you to diversify for me. I can buy Versant stock if I think it's really cheap. I can buy the parks business stock stock if I think it's a grower and I want growth. But CEOs incentive and compensation and quite frankly wanting to sleep at night and be bigger and badder leads to an agglomeration or a conglomeration that eventually the stock market throws up on. And that's what's happened here. And you know what the next really? There's a stock right now that if it broke up, it would triple. You know what that company is?

[Kara Swisher]

What's a what is?

[Scott Galloway]

I'll give you a hint. I went to their dinner last Sunday night.

[Kara Swisher]

I don't know what is it? Maybe you've mentioned it before.

[Scott Galloway]

I'll give you another hint. VR but only subscale.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, Snapchat.

[Scott Galloway]

If Snap spun their Spectacles group, the stock would triple or quadruple.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, interesting.

[Scott Galloway]

That is the most. That is the greatest unlock waiting.

[Kara Swisher]

He loves them spectacles though.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, that's the problem. It's a single. It's a dual class shareholder and Evan and controls the company.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, he loves them Spectacle.

[Scott Galloway]

Do you realize that I think Meta gets about $400 in market cap per user. Snap gets 17. Wow.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, you're right. He should get rid of the Spectacles

[Scott Galloway]

if they spun did a deal with Xiaomi or something. If they spun the Spectacles group and it was just a pure play social media platform rocket ship.

[Kara Swisher]

Interesting. Ooh, I like that idea.

[Scott Galloway]

Get this. Do you know how much the stock is off the last five years?

[Kara Swisher]

A lot. Yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

93%.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, it's crazy.

[Scott Galloway]

93%. A pure play 500 million people a day social media network that has the most attractive user base for advertisers in history. That is people under the age of 25, you get rid of this weeping sore called the Spectacles unit. That is subscale rocket ship.

[Kara Swisher]

All right, what happens to each of these divisions? So there's Versant, obviously. Warner is his own little nightmare. Although there's rumors that CNN will get spun off with Rob Bonta and the California Attorney General. But what happens to each of these divisions?

[Scott Galloway]

Well, I think the media and parks business has real synergy because if you put out a Harry Potter film, you can have a Harry Potter ride. Right?

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, right, right, exactly.

[Scott Galloway]

The connectivity business should be run.

[Kara Swisher]

They do. They do indeed.

[Scott Galloway]

They just get. They just get focused now in terms of Versa and the cable assets. Those are declining businesses, but those can be amazing businesses. You go Yellow Pages and that was. This is the weakest flex in the world. I was on the board of the world's largest Yellow pages company. And all we did was just go around the world and buy other Yellow Pages companies and basically hold onto the salespeople, get rid of everybody else and their cash machines. And that's what you're going to see. It doesn't make. CNN should go into Versant and ABC should sell their shit. They need to consolidate the back end these, these cable properties and that's what they'll do. And they'll still be good businesses. They'll just be in decline.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, that's absolutely right. They could buy. They could be the largest small player.

[Scott Galloway]

Right.

[Kara Swisher]

It'll do well. It'll do well for a long time.

[Scott Galloway]

They're hugely profitable businesses.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It'll be interesting. I wonder if they'll bring Versant back. Will they? Why would you. Why would you want them?

[Scott Galloway]

No, I don't think so. Again, that story has to be clean, right? I mean, Alphabet's learned their lesson. They're going to spend Waymo. Waymo's already spent. I guess it's an independent company.

[Kara Swisher]

Why didn't sky stay with the cable business?

[Scott Galloway]

That's the correct question. I don't know.

[Kara Swisher]

That was the one that stuck in my head. Yeah. So it'll be interesting. Yeah. Because they do. You're right. Theme parks, the film studio, NBC. I'm not sure where that fits in exactly. A broadcast network, I guess it just.

[Scott Galloway]

But Comcast and Hearst are the most underrated management teams in media. They're just very smart people who consistently do the right thing for shareholders. They're aggressive, they're smart and they're totally under the radar. Like they, they don't want. They don't want their CEOs getting in trouble. Or making earnings, doing great.

[Kara Swisher]

They also couldn't play in the Warner thing. I remember I went to the Wicked premiere and I ran into a bunch of them and they were like, we are the obvious right owner. I was like, oh, I know, but you're not getting it because Richie Rich over there and the crazies at Netflix, you can't beat them, right? You can't beat either of those companies. But I think this does give them a cleaner shot at buying stuff up. You know, there's all kinds of things for sale, like Lionsgate. There's all manner of stuff for sale in Hollywood. So we'll see what happens. You're gonna see a lot of M and A as Scott Galloway says. Anyway, interesting move by Brian Roberts, who I really like a lot. I have to say, he's a classy guy. Everyone over there is classy. They're a classy gang. They're very competent.

[Scott Galloway]

They're from Philadelphia, which means they've killed people. That's all I know. I'm sorry. Any family that is self made billionaires in Philadelphia, there's definitely people buried in the foundation of a building of that Sky Tower.

[Kara Swisher]

You know why I have a good feeling for Byron Robbins is because I was working for Murdoch and then I went over to Comcast and it was such a pleasure. Let me just tell you, it was such a different personality. Although Rupert was more fun at a party. Anyway, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, why OpenAI might delay its IPO. We're all tech this week.

[Scott Galloway]

Support for the show comes from upwork. A big life hack is finally admitting to yourself that you need help and that you can't do everything yourself. Thankfully, upwork makes it easy to bring in the right freelancer when you need them so you can stay focused on what you do best. Upwork is a one stop platform to find, hire and pay expert freelancers across web and software development, data and analytics, business operations and more. Upwork also helps grow your business by giving you fast access to specialized talent across 125 plus categories so you can fill skill gaps, launch projects faster and scale support up or down without committing to full time headcount. Thousands of growing businesses already trust upwork to hire flexible, high quality freelance talent for everything from one off projects to ongoing support. You can browse profiles, review past work and get help scoping the role so you can hire with confidence and get started quickly. It's free to sign up and posting a job is easy. Visit upwork.com pivot right now and post your job for free. That's upwork.com pivot to connect with top talent ready to help your business grow. That's upwork.com pivot upwork.com pivot support for the show comes from Odoo. There's an endless supply of software out there that promises to streamline your workflow. That may be true for a specific aspect of your business, but if you need one app for accounting, one for inventory management, and another for sales, how streamlined can your workflow actually be? If you have to be the middleman between them, Odoo says they're the answer you're looking for. For the only business software you'll ever need, Badoo can be your one stop shop for CRM, accounting, inventory, E commerce, hr and more. Plus, it's super customizable and easy to use out of the box. And the best part? They say not only can they replace multiple applications, but they say they'll do it for a fraction of the cost. Whether you're just starting out or already well on your way to scaling, Odoo wants to help you put the clutter aside such that you can do what you set out to do when you started your company. Thousands of businesses have made the switch, so why not you try Odoo for free at o-oo.com that's odoo o d o o dot com I'm stand up comedian John Marco Ceresi. And I'm actor penis model Russell Daniels. The Downside is our podcast where we bring on guests to talk about how miserable their lives are because, less face it, things are not getting better. Every episode we talk about what's wrong with our lives. Our guests lives the world, but in a fun way. Bottom line is you're gonna walk away feeling better about your life. We've had so many cool guests. Caleb Huron, Busy Phillips, Stavros Halkias, Laverne Cox, Hassan Piker, Alana Glaser. I promise you're gonna have a good time. Now on the Vox Media podcast network, this is the Downside.

[Kara Swisher]

Scott, we're back. OpenAI is reportedly considering delaying its IPO until next year. According to New York Times, the company has been planning to go public as soon as the third or fourth quarter of this year. Valuation appears to be one of the sticking points. Sam Altman is reportedly holding out for a $1 trillion when they all want this. The company was valued at 850 billion back in March. 850 billion. There's also some hesitation in light of SpaceX IPO which is sort of bumpity, which has been trending downward. After the sky high debut though, it's doing a little better as we record news of the possible delay led to a tech sell off, stock sell off with shares of Oracle, Core, Weave and Softbank all falling. And there's a possibility that Anthropic is breathing down their neck, that they may delay too. There was some chatter about that. So is it important for them to wait? As you talked about, the money is getting sucked out of the system and their financials leaked a few weeks ago ago with losses increasing nearly 8x in 2025 and spending hitting $34 billion is not the greatest story in the world. Thoughts? And of course they've got Anthropic right in front of them. Not breathing down their neck, right in front of them. They're riding behind it.

[Scott Galloway]

I think this is not systemic or I think this is an individual thing. And that is, I believe the Anthropic is still going to get out. This is what I call the great flippening.

[Kara Swisher]

Flippening? Is that a word you made up? Is that a vulgar word you made up?

[Scott Galloway]

Flippening? Yeah. There you go. There you go. In the Lincoln Bedroom tonight, come watching.

[Kara Swisher]

Like a sex act, doesn't it?

[Scott Galloway]

There you go.

[Kara Swisher]

What would that be?

[Scott Galloway]

Well, I feel as if I need to use my safe word right now. Maybe. Anyways, the. The great Flippening.

[Kara Swisher]

I laugh at that every time. You said it hundreds of times to me and I laugh every time. Go ahead.

[Scott Galloway]

So Q4 of 2025, OpenAI is the dominant leader right now. Anthropic is the. We've never seen Avis overtake Hertz this fast. This isn't even Pepsi overtaken Coke. It's like RC Cola one morning is the market leader and I think Anthropic gets out. But I think OpenAI, if they were going to have to show their wares or open their cupboards, there was just going to be evidence everywhere that Anthropic is eating their lunch. And I talk to a lot of CEOs about AI and a company I'm an investor in, Section Talks. It does all this helps companies upscale around AI. What they're seeing is the following. This quote unquote, blame the model. And everyone's blaming OpenAI and swapping them out for Anthropic, believing they're going to get a much greater roi. So I think that basically when we look back on the great drawdown, that will be AI valuations. That is, I think, going to happen in the next 12 months, this will be seen as a real crack. That kind of was a signal of what's to come.

[Kara Swisher]

Is it smart to wait? You talked about the sort of lack of cat. There's not enough money here.

[Scott Galloway]

Essentially, if they could get out, they would. I think what this says is the CFO talked to the banker and the banker said, okay, there's no wallpapering over this. Your business has lost a ton of momentum. And then you combine it with the second thing that is different than Anthropic. Altman has taken the Amazon and Netflix. Fake it until you make it spend more money than anyone else and your stock will go up. He's taken that to an extreme. That is too much. And that is if you look at how much money they are burning, I think what the S1s. And they would be side by side. Immediately everyone would be comparing Anthropic and OpenAI's financials against each other. And I think what you would see is the following. Not only has OpenAI massively lost momentum against Anthropic, it is also operating much more promiscuously with cash. And that is despite Anthropic's massive investments and massive losses, it's projecting that it'll break even by 2030. And Sam Altman's whole thing is, no, I'm committing to a $trillion in CapEx because the future, there's only one winner. And I think the market, I think the S1 side by side would show a company that is losing momentum and is spending way too much money and losing too much money. And I think the bankers have come

[Kara Swisher]

back and said the fall, they don't want the comparison.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, this is what's going to happen in the next six months. This is going to be the great exit from cost. This is going to be the great reduction in spending and capex commitments by OpenAI. They are going to massively decrease their expenditure and capex commitments because I think

[Kara Swisher]

the bank, then it hits Oracle, it hits a lot of them. It hits all of them, right?

[Scott Galloway]

Still an amazing company. It's still growing really fast. But the amount of money they were committing to in terms of capex has gotten out of control. And then you couple that with a reversal in momentum. I think Goldman and JP Morgan and the CFO have said to Sam, this is gonna be hard.

[Kara Swisher]

So then what do they do If Anthropic gets out at over a trillion, they've gotta meet that, right? Speaking of dick measuring contests, they kind of want that number. Can they actually get out then in 2027.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, I think this is a cost story and that is. I think they're just gonna have to reduce their combination.

[Kara Swisher]

They gotta clean it up. They got a couple.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah. Because okay, say they get out at 700 and not a trillion. That's still pretty good. I mean. Yeah, at some point they're going to need to raise capital in the public markets, I think. Or maybe could they raise in the private markets. The weird thing is I wonder if TBG and the private equity firms that got a 16 or a 17% pick, which is really our guaranteed return, which is really unusual in the private markets. I wonder if they would still do that deal today because the reversal in fortunes here has been like nothing I've ever seen in business without a scandal.

[Kara Swisher]

And so weird question, does it get bought?

[Scott Galloway]

There's so few players that could buy it. I mean, it's a handful of companies that could afford to buy it. It's one of the big tech companies or SpaceX. That's it. There's maybe five.

[Kara Swisher]

There was all this online plotting that Elon did, sort of made sure that SpaceX IPO was too big and then failed a little bit to stop them. Just so you know.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, if the next round. See, rather than do a down round, what Altman did was he offered.

[Kara Swisher]

He guaranteed it.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah. He offered these terms that typically you don't agree to a guaranteed return because he wanted the headline number to be whatever it was, 850 billion or whatever. But at some point, if they start running into a cash crunch, which I don't think they will, the bottom line, I think the second half of 2026 is about Sam Altman rationalizing the expense side of the business and their CapEx commitments because it's still growing like crazy.

[Kara Swisher]

And then anthropic goes out, doesn't delay goes out.

[Scott Galloway]

If I were Dario, I'd want to be like, I'm on top, bitch. I'm going public.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, yeah, right away. Yeah. They've got to. It's a momentum story for them. Absolutely.

[Scott Galloway]

And they have a great story. I think the S1 is going to look really good for anthropoms.

[Kara Swisher]

Comparison. Yeah. In comparison. I mean, what's really interesting is how kind of pissy the OpenAI people are about the story. Dario gets over and over again. I mean, he can be imperious himself and a little bit self righteous, which is interesting. But I think he's got the better story. He does. And a lot of this is narrative and it actually be good for anthropic. Not to have them there. Although looking better than OpenAI is a good thing for them. Right. Presumably he hasn't been as much as Spendi.

[Scott Galloway]

This is the cfo. This is the cfo. And JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs said you don't want these numbers public right now.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, yeah, yep, absolutely. And by the way, the reception to the ones that did go public wasn't great. All right, we'll see what happens. Interesting story, interesting developing story, but it will impact companies like Oracle and other ones you saw that draw. Just a small drawdown of their shares. Cause they have so many commitments all around the board. All right, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll discuss Pete Buttigieg getting targeted.

[Scott Galloway]

I'm Seth Matlins. My new show, Create or Destroy Reimagining Marketing, explores how every decision a company makes, not just the marketing ones, but the hr, ir, pricing, org design and planning ones, the ones most don't consider marketing at all, contribute to either creating value or destroying it. Each week I sit down with CMOs, CEOs, founders, cultural thinkers, the people building, breaking and reimagining how businesses grow or don't for conversations about what creates value and what destroys it. It's a business show, It's a marketing show. Creator destroys the show that argues they've always been the same thing. From the Vox Media podcast network and the wisdom is company. New episodes drop weekly on YouTube and your favorite podcast app.

[Kara Swisher]

Scott, we're back. I want to talk about a story that came out over the weekend about Pete Buttigieg's family. Buttigieg says police showed up at his house after an anonymous tip claimed his four year old twins were at risk. CPS investigated the claim and the Michigan State Police later confirmed the report was completely fabricated. While the incident was being investigated, Buttigieg was not allowed to be alone with his 4 year old children for 24 hours and they were interviewed by authorities without either parent present. The incident happened during Pride Month, right after the family posted a Father's Day photos online. This was terrifying to someone like myself. This was like it was just some tip that was called in about another tip of something. Pete allegedly it was all nonsense from the but they had to because they're authorities and he's a well known person. They had to actually investigate, which is their job. I think they felt sick to do it, but turned out to be all false. It's a version of swatting, but more nefarious. Swarming, swarming or whatever. And he's polling well for the 2028 presidential run. This is just. I can't imagine. I know them pretty well. I know especially test. And you know, this is the fear they have as gay parents. And something I've discussed with them. You know, this is the fear. This is this sort of weird feeling people have about gay parenting that is just. I don't even wanna call it gay parenting, just parenting, but that they get stuck with. They're wonderful parents and these kids are lovely. And for them to have to go through this just sent a chill when I read his piece. And he's not someone who usually is particularly dramatic, but he was furious about what happened, as he should have been. Any. Any thoughts on this?

[Scott Galloway]

I don't think this is a gay thing. I think this is stochastic terrorism. I. I know a couple.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, interesting.

[Scott Galloway]

I know a couple, a straight couple in the Midwest. And Child Protective Services showed up at their door one day and said, we need, we're from Child Protective Services. We need to speak to your children. They had no idea what was going on, by the way. The whole neighborhood found out about it. There's no way you recover from that, no matter how innocent you are. Proven. That's on your Wikipedia page. If you're ever on trial for anything, the prosecutor can ask, weren't Child Protective Services called to your house? And when I go through gsa, I immediately feel guilty. I immediately like, oh, where's that joint? In my pocket. I've done something wrong. When you see your suitcase, go to the part where they investigate it, you immediately feel guilty. How does a 4 year old not remember that? Strangers who you're supposed to speak to, who have the authority to separate you from your parents, start asking these types of questions. How do you not somewhere in your brain think, are mommy and daddy not good people? How do the parents, the community, their reputation and the kids ever recover from that? Ever?

[Kara Swisher]

I agree.

[Scott Galloway]

And this is the problem. This is a result of the fetishization and anonymity being linked to shareholder value. And that is democracy depends upon disagreement, but also accountability. And when the loudest voices face no consequences, the most thoughtful ones log off in fear. And what happens here is the following. Child Protective Services, their heart is in the right place. They're trying to encourage people to bubble up real instances of child abuse.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, because they usually miss a lot of them, right?

[Scott Galloway]

That's right. But here's the problem and here's what needs to be done. The fix isn't to end anonymity. It's smarter than that. The solution is verified yet anonymous credentialing, and that is online. There should be a digital stamp that proves you are a unique human being without revealing which human you are when you call Child Protective Services. And as it ended up so the family I was referencing, you know what it ended up? Two months later, they found out one of their daughters was in a beef with another girl in the same high school. And the girl, the rival girl called this happens all over. But here's the problem. The family faces no consequence. So if you call Child Protective Services, we're gonna guarantee your anonymity. But after investigation, if we find out there's no evidence, guess what? We're gonna investigate you.

[Kara Swisher]

I agree. I was like, who are these people who did this? And you know, swatting is bad. Swatting is dangerous. Cause there's guns involved, like with kids and everything else. And to me, so heinous the idea of it, swatting is when you call in that there's some terrible thing happening at the house, and then SWAT teams come in, as they should, because they never know, right? And so this is such an abuse of a system that's already broken, right? It's already a problematic system. They don't catch enough child abuse. And sometimes kids don't get checked on. And you read those stories over and over again. But in this case, what sick fuck would think of this thing? Like, what sick fuck would make this stuff up that to me, and I would like to find them and you know what I do to them, but I think the authorities really need to have a system. And the thing is, you don't want to discourage people from telling on real issues of abuse. Right? That's the thing. I was so upset by this.

[Scott Galloway]

This is really upsetting. But the bigger issue is the following. That same architecture, anonymous, consequence free, infinitely scalable online platforms, they let bots flood elections, radicalize millions, and make public service a target sport. And the bottom line is this is where the right gets it wrong and the left gets it wrong. The Internet doesn't have a speech problem. It has an accountability problem. And our fetishization for free speech and anonymity has resulted in a total lack of accountability. If you believe the kids across the street are being abused and Child Protective Services shows up and they find out, oh, you misunderstood the situation, you're still not liable, you didn't do anything wrong, your reasons were valid. But if it finds out you're just a homophobic fucking weirdo, or your daughter has had a beef with another girl

[Kara Swisher]

in the high school, there should be consequences.

[Scott Galloway]

There's consequences.

[Kara Swisher]

I think Beat was talking about that. You know, I hope, look, I know they're worried about these issues as gay parents as we all are, because I was always worried about. I've been. It just sticks in the back of your mind if it prevents him from running, which really I hope it doesn't. That's what I hope it doesn't. I mean, because let me just say, they're wonderful parents. They're wonderful people and they're wonderful parents.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, but what do you say to the kids? And there's this strange people in suits saying, I need you to go stay.

[Kara Swisher]

The whole thing is like, what do

[Scott Galloway]

you say to your kids? Like a four year old. What do you say to them?

[Kara Swisher]

I don't even wanna think about it. It was so upsetting. Anyway, Pete and Chasten, we're so sorry. This is disgusting. And this is not how you behave towards people who are decent, great parents. And whoever did this, I hope they find you and I hope you have some sort of reckoning. As of this recording, by the way, we're gonna move on. House Speaker Mike Johnson says he's sending the landmark housing bill to the White House days after Trump abruptly cancele ceremony for that bill. Interesting move. The bill, which passed both houses of Congress with overwhelming bipartisan support, aims to, and also would be a win for Trump, aims to bring down housing costs, expand homeownership and boost construction. But Trump says he won't sign it into law until Congress passes his Save America act, which would require a photo ID to vote and effectively end mail in voting. By the way, the Supreme Court just upheld a Mississippi law for late arriving mail in ballots. A blow to the Trump administration's efforts to clear the election, which is what they're trying to do. And the housing bill can still be become law even if Trump doesn't sign it. So it's technical. If he doesn't sign it, it can become law. If he vetoes it, I believe they have the votes to overcome his veto. So they're kind of putting him in a position. Under the Constitution, the president doesn't sign a bill within 10 days, it becomes law without a signature. And again, Congress can override this one. And so it was interesting that Johnson did this. He obviously knows it's a good thing to have, have this on the Republican record or at least take credit for it, even though it's kind of bipartisan thoughts on that.

[Scott Galloway]

Housing is one of the biggest problems in America, whether it's. I was reading this morning that Finland took an opposite Route instead of focusing on mental health or veterans affairs for the homeless, they just focus on housing. They're like, just build cheap housing and get people in housing and it ends up that housing is a weird form of birth control. That every 10% increase in housing prices, birth rates go down 1%. It reduces people coupling, it reduces birth rates, it reduces self esteem. Housing, affordable housing is really important. And what we have here is again, the incumbents, once they've owned homes, make it more and more difficult for new permits. It's gone way too far. Congress, to their credit, recognized it. This bill attempts to get rid of NIMBY legislation and proposed YIMBY legislation, credits more, credits more federal sponsorship for communities that have more housing. This is, I actually thought the bill itself, when you read it, is pretty weak sauce, but it's a very strong symbolic movement in the right direction. And in addition, when is the last time Congress voted 358 to 32 on anything?

[Kara Swisher]

Right, right.

[Scott Galloway]

So, and this makes all sorts of sense. Trump getting in the way of this was just stupid. And again, it's veto proof. So I think this is a win.

[Kara Swisher]

What does he do? What does he do? Sign. He's gotta sign it and take credit.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh yeah, I think so.

[Kara Swisher]

He should. But he's gonna, he's still gonna try everything possible. This save act that's not gonna pass President Trump. It's not, it's not happening. So why does he keep doing this?

[Scott Galloway]

Oh shit. I mean, you're asking me to get into this guy's brain. I would have thought he would. If I were advising him, I would say, oh my God, put on a tool belt like you're on a construction site and run around, take credit for this thing. Take credit for housing. This is a big, big issue for Americans.

[Kara Swisher]

Right. You know, instead he's obsessed with, you know, now he wants to build a golf course and put trees in front of the White House. He's just obsessed with all these weird obsessive things around the D.C. area to preserve his legacy, which seems more interest to him. He went and visited, it was pouring rain yesterday and he was out at Haines where he wants to put in a golf course of some sort. There is a golf course, everybody wants to improve it. And then putting maple trees around Lafayette Square, all this stuff. And then of course touting his really loser American State Fair, whatever that nobody went to. He just seems all obsessed with that kind of stuff and not something that is. Even if it's symbolically. Even symbolically, it's important to. I don't get this. This guy, I think he's terrified that things are gonna go very badly after November. And so it seems to he's gonna self soothe with maple trees.

[Scott Galloway]

There you go. Self soothe.

[Kara Swisher]

Self soothed. Right. Anyway, but he should take credit for this one and he won't. All right, Scott, we're gonna have one more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails. Okay, Scott, we're gonna do some wins and fails. I think I shall go first. There were so many fail choices. The griftwatch of the Trump mining deal in Kazakhstan with Don and Eric stand a profit along with Lutnik's Lutnik family. What's happening in Venezuela is really depressing. Watching them try to find people. So many people have died. But I'm going to be a little personal here. There's two people who died this week who I know very well and were very impactful on my life. One was Om Malik, one of the very early tech bloggers. Someone who had worked very like me in regular media, but then sort of spun off and started doing a really fascinating kind of bloggy and yet fully reported attitudinal stuff way back in the day. An excellent reporter. He also did events, he did parties. And I really, I got a lot of inspiration from Om, who is one of the most jolly fellows. I just really enjoyed Om. We fought a lot about a lot of things. But what an amazing impact he had on early tech journalism when it was a lot more hopeful in a lot of ways. But he actually did call people on things. Very early. Very wonderful guy he had. You know, he had shifted to becoming a venture capitalist. I didn't go that direction, but just a really wonderful. And he's getting much deserved praise from all of us who are around then. And he struggled with heart issues for a long, long time and was just a really wonderful guy. The other one was my assistant. I don't have an assistant, but I did for many years. Ed Daley also died. Another he had also had health problems around diabetes and everything else. And just a tremendous, important part of the growth of my businesses in the beginning of them and worked for me for a long time, was an invaluable help and you know, the kind of person you don't hear about. He wasn't a reporter but did so much stuff to really build the businesses Walt and I built and just was a wonderful guy and was wonderful to my kids, especially Louis and Alex. Took them on camping trips with his partner Mark. And just one of these hardworking, really Wonderful people who helped so many people and just really sad. I'm sorry. Louis just went to see him recently, so I'm glad that happened. But really big impact on my life and just a tremendously huge hearted person. So that is my fail. Although my heart goes out to people in Venezuela and everything else. And my win is. The Supreme Court just rejected Trump's attempt to get $5 million verdict in the E. Jean Carroll sexual abuse case. This is the end of the road for him now. I think he's gonna. I just texted Robby Kaplan. Let me see if she wrote back. But who is the lawyer in the case? We'll see where it goes. On the smaller verdict, he has to pay the 5 million. There is the 80, I think 85 million. $80 million verdict that is still being disputed, but he has to give her the 5 million, which I just kind of love. And now he is very firmly what he is accused of. He did and he can't take it any further. And we'll see on the second part, which is a defamat related to this case. Anyway, good for Eugene Carroll and pay up Donald Trump for what you did to her. And I just felt that it was like today is the day that the Supreme Court kicks Trump in the teeth a little bit after giving him a lot of wins on immigration, which were that the Haitians, particularly the Haitian ruling was really terrible for really hardworking people in this country. In any case, congratulations to aging care Carol.

[Scott Galloway]

Nice. Okay, so my fail is I can't get over. Well, you could argue it's a win for broadcast news, but there were two really illuminating interviews this weekend. The first was John Carl from ABC News interviewed Senator Todd Young and along with Senator Mark Kelly. And they talked about how President Trump accused Mark Kelly of sedition. Okay, so first off, Senator Kelly flew combat missions and also flew the space shuttle at 20,000 fucking miles an hour. I mean, there are a few things more patriotic than the actions of Senator Mar Kelly. And they asked, I appreciate John Karl calling Senator Todd Young out in front and say, how come you didn't. Do you agree with this? And of course, Senator Todd Young broke into song about. He texted Senator Kelly to make sure he was all right, but he didn't say a fucking word. And at some point, I'm waiting for people before they are, you know, lose their primary at nyu. We have a second year, which is really a waste of money. It's such that we can charge the kids 140,000, not seven. And we teach all these electives like Sustainability and leadership and ethics. Let me save you $7,000 on the leadership course of any major university. Do the right thing, even when it's hard. There. You just saved $7,000. And we bring in a formerly important person to talk about what a fucking amazing person they are and how the world was against them. But they did the right thing, and we call it a leadership course. Thank you for your $7,000 in student debt. There is such a lack of leadership on the most, most obvious issues. And I don't understand the calculus from a senator who I believe is probably a good man and respects his fellow colleague coming out and saying it is wrong to accuse Senator Kelly, an American hero and patriot, of sedition. That is just beyond the line. And then the same time, Ryan Nobles, who was an outstanding stand in for Kirsten Welker, who I also think is wonderful on Meet the Press, basically kind of got in the face of Senator Roger Marshall and asked him to cite a single example of where voter fraud has influenced an election. And I thought he. I watched it. I'm like, go. And of course, this guy just went into blather.

[Kara Swisher]

And doctors need to be trusted by. I was like, what in the fuck?

[Scott Galloway]

What are you talking about? Or that pilots need to be. And it's like, pilots? But there's no problem here. Planes crash. There is no. No one has ever been able to provide evidence that a single election has been influenced, much less decided by voter fraud.

[Kara Swisher]

This guy's been all over the tv. The doctor, Roger from Kansas, the senator, and he's doing the same song and dance everywhere. I don't know why. Maybe he's in a tough fight. I don't know. It's weird. He does this a lot. He's just done this a lot.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, I understand that the only way you can do good is to get elected, but at some point, they've got to recognize that, you know, this guy is coming is becoming a lame Truduckin, as you would say. And at some point, they're gonna show something resembling leadership. And I can't swear the calculus of a senator coming out and saying, senator Kelly is an American hero.

[Kara Swisher]

Exactly. I don't get it. It's the same thing when Fox News is broadcasting from that America States thing, which looks like the Fyre Festival. And they're like, look at all the people. And I'm like, there's nobody behind you. Like, how do they do that? Peter Doocy, how did you manage to do that? Oh, everyone's having fun here. And there's 26 people there and it was so weird. I don't get it. Like, when are they going to give? When are they going to give? When do you think they're going to give on same thing with this guy. It's like, you know, don't believe your lion eyes kind of thing and know.

[Scott Galloway]

Anyways, I guess it's sort of a win for ABC and NBC News. And these, these programs still matter despite their declining audiences. They do are still really relevant. And specifically, it just strikes me at some point senators who are elected to six year terms at some point are going to begin to understand that, you know, okay, with the definition of quote, unquote leadership. My, my, my win is that Bill Maher was awarded the Mark Twain Award. The Mark Twain Award. And I thought it was really fitting that it was at the Kennedy Center. But look, I have said this. Something I don't like about myself is I have been way too influenced by comments in social media which I think are so corrosive because they start influencing you to say this type of thing and not this type of thing. And I've tried really hard in the last couple years to say, say I'm going to say what I mean, mean what I say and I don't care what the comments are. There are very few posts that get as much blowback as when I say the following. And I mean it. Bill Maher is a hero of mine. And I think if you were to take every political pundit and have at zero say, I don't know who the craziest right wing person is and on 100 be the craziest left wing person. If I had to identify someone who was exactly at 50, it would be Bill Maher. And evidence that he is a centrist is that everyone appears to hate the guy publicly. And then every podcast I go on, the host, when I follow up and say, is there anything I can do to help you? They ask me, can I introduce them to someone at Bill Maher? The guy has been in the business for 33 years. He is fearless, he is funny. And his contribution isn't defending the idea that people who disagree should be allowed in the same room. Is that the weirdest thing is that it's so remarkable and today that is remarkable. And he didn't build an audience by telling people what they wanted to hear. He built one by telling everyone something they didn't want to hear. He literally pisses off everybody.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, which is why he gets a little bit, I mean he does, he does seek out like his earlier stuff on Islam and stuff like that. So he is who he is. And I'm always fascinated by how much much I get blowback on your behalf, which is interesting, or why are you on that show? When I go on, it's a really interesting discussion. And I don't lump him in with all the others, who I do find somewhat heinous in that regard. And I agree. I think he deserved that. I think he's very funny. I think he. I don't always agree with him, that's for sure, but it really is.

[Scott Galloway]

That's the point.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, I don't find it. I don't know. He attracts an unusual amount of ire. He really does.

[Scott Galloway]

We'll get pushback on this. When I say he's a role model of mine, and there are a few, like when I graduate, I was trying to think when I graduated from college, when I got my first bonus check, when I sold my first business. There are moments in your life you remember professionally. One of those biggest moments for me was three or four years ago during COVID when Susan Bennett called me and said, we'd like you to be on Bill Marcus. It's the only show my dad watches.

[Kara Swisher]

Susan's a producer.

[Scott Galloway]

She's a producer, terrific producer. And I think the guy is fearless. And he brings to light the notion that free speech isn't tested by popular opinions, it's tested by the people who piss you off. And he does that. And he's an equal opportunity agitator. And he was one of the last people in television willing to make both sides equally uncomfortable. I mean, he's really an independent voice. And I don't think his contribution will be remembered as changing minds. It was proving that you can disagree without deciding the other person is evil. And his legacy, although he's a great comedian, I don't think his legacy is comedy. It's defending the proposition that democracy requires conversation, not just conviction. And we have lost so much of that. And I sort of know him, but don't know him well, but the people he surrounds himself with. Here's some things about Bill Maher. He has this big rant on how. How he doesn't have kids and doesn't marry. Everyone around him has been working with him for 20 years. The woman in makeup, the guy who brings you to your COVID test, his producers. I think he's a very loyal man. I think he shows up. I think he works very hard. I think he's unafraid. I think he's a great role model for people who like me. Want to be centrist, distinct of the hate you get because you piss off everybody. I thought he's an outstanding recipient for the Mark Twain Prize.

[Kara Swisher]

Anyways, I would agree.

[Scott Galloway]

My win is the unafraid, courageous believer in free speech that pisses off everybody. And everybody wants to be on his show after 33 years, and that is Bill Maher.

[Kara Swisher]

Good for you. Good for you. You do care about comments, Scott. You're never gonna not care about comments. Never.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, I'm addicted to the affirmation of others, Kara. It's really pathetic.

[Kara Swisher]

Not pathetic, you'll give yourself a hard time. It does get to you. It doesn't get to me as much as it gets to you, but it gets to me too. I mean, I think it'. I think you will. It's okay for it to hurt, I have to tell you.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, shaming is a very powerful feeling because until about 50 years ago, if you were shamed and expunged from the tribe, it meant you were going to starve or be eaten by a bear in 72 hours or less.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, you're not going to get eaten by a bear.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, I don't think so. I don't think so.

[Kara Swisher]

You're vulgar, but you're not getting eaten by a bear. But no, I agree with you. I think Bill deserved that award. And I know people, you know, we often disagree. We really do. But the kind of. I mean, I see. Listen, if you don't like Bill Maher, don't watch him. I don't know what else to say. That's my feeling. It's like, that's what I say to people. And by the way, you know, people in my family, one of my kids was like, why are you going on his show? And I'm like, you know what? It's none of your fucking business. I am, because I like going on it. I enjoy the show.

[Scott Galloway]

So I'm going on, I think July 29th. I'm gonna take Beata and I'm gonna take both my sons. And I never take them all to anything. And I said, this is important to me. I want you to come with.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, okay. Good. Well, good. Anyway. Good ones, good ones for you. That was a good one. Can I do one more brief fail? And I don't want any. I just want to say Scott Wiener is a friend of mine and what happened to him in San Francisco last week was heinous. Like, I don't usually mind criticism around of Israel and I think it's really important for. And I don't think every criticism in Israel is anti Semitic. But what happened to him. And he has been a supporter of all manner of things in San Francisco. He was anti Semitic was really truly and strange. And that kind of, that really shouldn't I feel terrible for Scott? Cause he's been, you know, there's lots of things you could disagree with Scott on, but not what they were yelling at him about. And so it had a real tinge of real hatred. And that really repulsed me in a way that I usually am okay with some criticism, with criticism of all manner of countries and stuff like that. And so just that cannot be tolerated by the Democrats. That cannot be tolerated, that kind of behavior. So I would just want to say that. But I feel bad for Scott, who's been a really hardworking public servant. Anyway. All right, so that's the show. Congratulations to Bill Maher. We want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business, tech or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com pivot to submit a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT. Elsewhere in the Karen Scott universe this weekend on I just spoke to Jim Bankoff, the CEO of Vox Media, and Meredith Kopit Levian, president and CEO of the New York Times at Cannes Lions, which was really fun. We talked about the ways they adapted to a changing media landscape and the effects of AI on publishing. And it was a great session. And thanks to UTA for hosting us and keeping it quiet. Let's listen to a clip. The leverage is even the LLMs will need an information ecosystem with high quality, independently produced, verified information. If they don't have it, their products will not ultimately be good either. We all want to live in a society where quality information is available. And I believe they do too. You believe they do too? I think that these are information companies, these are information tools. And I think at a certain point, for you to have a healthy, functioning democracy, you have to have high quality information and people have to be able to identify the difference. This was a really good discussion and we had a little testiness around a couple of things, but it was great. It was a really interesting discussion about media and where it's going. And Meredith, both Scott and I have huge regard for her. And that Jim Bankoff guy is nice too.

[Scott Galloway]

So you want a little known fact about the CEO of the New York Times? No, Let me tell you, she's got a dreamy boyfriend. He's a tall drink of lemonade. Have you met him?

[Kara Swisher]

Yes, I have.

[Scott Galloway]

I went up to her and I'm like, that guy dude's so handsome. And she looks around and she's like, I know,

[Kara Swisher]

she's great. She's great.

[Scott Galloway]

He's like, literally like, I can't. I'll take my masculinity to go. Jesus Christ.

[Kara Swisher]

I love everything about Meredith. I think she's a great executive, she's a great parent. She's really. She's all that in a bag of chips, as they say. And so lucky for him to have her. Okay, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot and be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back on Friday.

[Scott Galloway]

Today's show was produced by Lara Amen, Zoe Marcus, Taylor Griffin, Todd Wiseman and Christine Driscoll. Additional assistance from Kate Gallagher and Brad Sylvester. Ernie and her Todd entered into this episode. Thanks also to Drew Bros, Ms. Averian, Dan Shalon, Nishat Koras, Vox Media's executive producer podcast. Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform. Thanks for listening to Pivot from Box Media. We'll be back later in the week for another break breakdown of all things tech and business. Kara, have a great rest of the week.