Dept. of War Rebrand, Trump's Tech Bro Dinner, and Elon's Pay Package

Summary

Pivot Podcast Episode Summary

Episode Title: Dept. of War Rebrand, Trump's Tech Bro Dinner, and Elon's Pay Package
Date: September 9, 2025
Hosts: Kara Swisher & Scott Galloway
Podcast: Pivot (New York Magazine & Vox Media Podcast Network)

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Overview

In this richly opinionated, fast-paced episode, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway tackle the biggest news at the intersection of tech, business, and politics. The main topics: Trump’s provocative (and costly) rebranding of the Department of Defense as the Department of War, the spectacle of top tech executives assembling for a Trump White House dinner, and the astronomical new pay package proposed for Elon Musk. Alongside, they break down the economics of AI in the workforce, RFK Jr.'s vaccine skepticism, plagiarism in AI training, and reflect upon September 11th's anniversary.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Personal Updates & Banter (00:33–07:52)

• Health & fitness chat: Kara discusses her new running regimen for a CNN documentary (“VO2 Max thing”), which leads into reflections on the value of mental fitness in endurance activities, inspired by Navy SEALs selection criteria.
  • “It's about training your mind to go another quarter, half a mile, even when you think you can't. Because what you find out is, no, you can.” — Scott Galloway (03:19)
• Family and parenting: Conversation drifts to Swisher’s family, with both hosts reflecting on the role of positive parenting and the importance of both masculine and feminine energies in raising kids.
  • “The ultimate alchemy of success in a loving household is a combination of masculine and feminine energy, and I'm sticking to it.” — Scott Galloway (07:27)

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2. Main Story #1: Trump’s Department of War Rebrand (07:52–16:06)

• Trump’s move: Trump is pushing to rebrand the Department of Defense to the “Department of War,” last used in the 1940s, arguing America was more effective and less “woke” under the old title.
• Reaction to the rhetoric and logic: Both hosts find the move performative and regressive, critiquing Secretary Pete Hegseth’s “maximum lethality” language.
  • “That's fucking ridiculous.” — Kara (08:26)
  • “That's not masculinity, that's little dick weirdness.” — Scott (09:35)
• Why the old name doesn’t fit: Galloway deconstructs the notion, explaining shifts in warfare, strategic deterrence, and the practical harms of the rebrand (recruitment, diplomacy, cost).
  • “Our Defense Department does a lot of recruiting... Do you think more people are inclined to consider going to work for the Defense Department or the Department of War?” — Scott (11:39)
• Gendered, ‘macho’ politics: Swisher and Galloway rail against the “small dick energy” and teen-boy vision of masculinity in modern Republican messaging.
  • “Real men who are in great shape... they're the ones that break up fights in bars. They don't start them.” — Scott (13:47)
• Signal to the world: The hosts argue this performative rebranding only alienates allies and adversaries, with real world costs.

Notable Quotes:

• “This is what badly raised teenage boys think of as manliness.” — Kara (13:15)
• “It's going to make recruiting harder. It's a bureaucracy democratic nightmare for all.” — Scott (14:00)

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3. Main Story #2: Big Tech’s Market Power & AI Impact (17:19–24:35)

• Tech's growing dominance: US tech firms’ rally to $21 trillion market cap; over-concentration in the S&P 500.
• AI’s economic impact: Galloway deep-dives into the productivity vs. displacement debate—AI-driven "efficiencies" could mean massive layoffs, not just profit margins.
  • “A trillion dollars is 10 million jobs... that's about a 15% destruction in employment over 24 to 36 months. Armageddon.” — Scott (19:51)
• The myth that tech always creates jobs: Kara challenges the narrative that technological change always results in new, better jobs.
• Taxation and retraining: Galloway proposes taxing corporations more (marginal rates, progressive structure) to support systemic retraining and health insurance for those displaced by AI.
  • “What we're really bad at is figuring out systemic training and means to help give those people the runway.” — Scott (22:55)
• Bailouts vs. bailouts: Both hosts mock the hypocrisy of groups (like farmers) demanding bailouts after voting against social safety nets for others.

Notable Quotes:

• "It's shareholder wealth right now." — Kara (21:44)
• “We need to tax these organizations such that you have the capital to retrain people and not have people live in a state of fear.” — Scott (24:07)

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4. Main Story #3: Trump’s Tech Bro White House Dinner (27:57–35:33)

• Attendees & absentees: Mark Zuckerberg, Bill Gates, Sam Altman, Tim Cook, Sergey Brin, Satya Nadella; Elon Musk notably absent (contested reasons).
• Hosts’ disgust: Both call out the tech titans’ “grotesque” fawning over Trump, replaying the dynamics of the 2016 Trump Tower summit.
  • “I thought they made sex work look dignified.” — Scott (29:17)
  • “Why have all that money if you can’t do anything with it?” — Kara (31:39)
• Failure to speak out: They consider why—despite immense wealth and security—none publicly stand up to Trump. “If you have economic security... you have an obligation to speak out.” — Scott citing Sam Harris (30:35)
• Consumer brands as alternative voices: Galloway proposes companies like Disney or Nike could gain, not lose, by taking stands for American values in elegant commercial messaging.

Notable Quotes:

• “All they do is fellate. That’s all they do now.” — Kara (31:34)
• “I think paying some guy 50 bucks to suck my is more dignified than what these guys did.” — Scott (29:17)

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5. Elon Musk’s “Trillionaire” Tesla Pay Package (35:33–43:39)

• Details: Tesla’s board proposes a pay package for Musk that could make him the first trillionaire—but only if Tesla’s value rises from $1T to $8.5T, along with ambitious product and robo-taxi goals.
• Feasibility & justice: Kara and Scott both dismiss the milestones as “near impossible” and call out the meme stock dynamic.
• Should anyone be a trillionaire? Scott accepts wealth creation, but insists ultra-wealth should be highly taxed.
  • “I want to pay him a trillion dollars and then I want 90% of it to go to the US Treasury.” — Scott (41:43)
• On Musk’s actual prospects: Both express skepticism Musk can deliver on the targets. “He needs a new product is all I’m saying. And a new bit of energy in and of himself.” — Kara (41:34)

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6. Other Notable Segments

RFK Jr., Vaccine Skepticism, and Public Health Dangers (47:24–52:16)

• RFK Jr.’s Congressional testimony downplaying US COVID deaths and promoting skepticism; Trump’s own mixed signals on vaccines.
• Galloway warns: “If you don’t make it easy for people to get vaccines, fewer people are gonna get vaccines and more kids are gonna have their limbs cut off from advanced measles.” (48:35)
• They praise several Senators (especially Warner, Warren, Cantwell, Cassidy) for holding the line in the hearings.
• Kara on public health: "There's so many reasons to [get vaccinated] that will protect everybody." (51:03)

AI Companies and Copyright Theft (52:16–59:50)

• Anthropic settles for $1.5B with authors/publishers over using copyrighted books to train LLMs.
• Both hosts agree: companies like Anthropic can and should pay rights holders—simple systems exist (like broadcast music licensing).
  • “It’s theft. It’s theft.” — Kara (57:47)
• Potential for AI to “deepfake” authors, podcasters, etc., unless robust rights frameworks are created.

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7. Wins & Fails (62:15–71:06)

• Kara’s fail: JP Morgan enabling the crimes of Jeffrey Epstein (“astonishing how much they were warned... they continued to let Jeffrey Epstein use their bank”) & tech leaders’ Trump sycophancy.

• Kara’s win: E. Jean Carroll’s $83M judgment upheld against Trump.

• Scott’s wins: Praises the Senate Finance Committee’s strong performance during RFK Jr.'s hearing. Emotional reflection on the 24th anniversary of 9/11—personal story, New York’s response, and broader lessons about American unity and resolve.

  “It was as if the city was in mourning.” — Scott (65:26)

• Astrology interlude: Turns out Scott’s a Libra, not a Scorpio, due to Earth's wobble.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On performative masculinity: “That's not masculinity, that's little dick weirdness.” — Scott (09:35)
• On the tech CEO dinner: “I thought they made sex work look dignified.” — Scott (29:17)
• On AI job destruction: “A 15% destruction in employment in any industry over the next 24 to 36 months is literally Armageddon.” — Scott (19:51)
• On Musk’s pay: “I want to pay him a trillion dollars and then I want 90% of it to go to the US Treasury.” — Scott (41:43)
• On vaccine policy drift: “If you don’t make it easy for people to get vaccines, fewer people are gonna get vaccines and more kids are gonna have their limbs cut off from advanced measles.” — Scott (48:35)
• On copyright theft and AI: “It’s theft. It’s theft.” — Kara (57:47)
• On 9/11: “If you really want to like feel emotional, go listen to the calls from the people on the planes... They all said the same thing. I'm just calling to say I love you.” — Scott (70:23)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 07:52 – Dept. of War Rebrand introduction and Trump clip
• 13:15 – Critique of “performative masculinity” in politics
• 17:19 – Big Tech market moves & AI-driven layoffs
• 27:57 – Trump’s Tech Bro dinner critique
• 35:33 – Elon Musk “trillionaire” pay package debate
• 47:24 – RFK Jr. Senate hearing & anti-vaccine rhetoric
• 52:16 – Anthropic copyright settlement & AI plagiarism
• 62:15 – Wins & fails (Epstein banking, E. Jean Carroll victory)
• 65:26 – Scott’s 9/11 reflection

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Tone & Style

The episode is highly conversational, blending analysis, banter, and strong, often irreverent opinions. Swisher and Galloway both employ sharp wit, sarcasm, and at times profane humor to critique political and tech leaders.

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For Listeners Who Missed the Episode

This episode delivers biting commentary on the worrying embrace of ultra-macho, regressive branding at the highest levels of US government, the continued coziness of tech moguls with power despite prior protestations, and the looming implications of unchecked AI-driven disruption. Through all, the hosts remain sharply critical, well-informed, and deeply concerned for the direction of American business and society—while always bringing levity and candor to their observations.

Transcript

[Scott Galloway]

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[Kara Swisher]

This month on Explain It To Me, we're talking about all things wellness. We spend nearly $2 trillion on things that are supposed to make us well. Collagen, smoothies and cold plunges, Pilates classes and fitness trackers. But what does it actually mean to be well? Why do we want that so badly? And is all this money really making us healthier and happier? That's this month on Explain It To Me, presented by Pure Leaf.

[Scott Galloway]

The whoever the new president is is literally gonna be the circus clown behind an elephant, just scooping up shit for the first three or six months.

[Kara Swisher]

Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York magazine and the Vox Media podcast network. I'm Kara Swisher.

[Scott Galloway]

And I'm Scott Galloway.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, hello, Scott. Do you have your shirt on today?

[Scott Galloway]

You know, why not?

[Kara Swisher]

You know why not? You know that people seem to like that quite a bit. And then some people didn't. But a lot of people did more than they. They think they you at this point.

[Scott Galloway]

I think it's quite polarizing.

[Kara Swisher]

Is it?

[Scott Galloway]

I think it gives people hope. When they're 80, they can look 79.

[Kara Swisher]

Actually, I thought you looked really good. And Gavin was correct in his prediction that you'd been working out most of August, as we discussed with your son.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, no, it's. I was actually inspired. You said that you're running a few times a week now.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, three times a week.

[Scott Galloway]

There's something about. I find that the high you get after for the five or seven Minutes after you. After you run is really.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, I'm liking it.

[Scott Galloway]

A unique, interesting high.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. I'm doing this for this secret documentary series for cnn.

[Scott Galloway]

Everyone knows about that.

[Kara Swisher]

Everyone knows about. I'm running because I did the VO2 Max thing to find out how efficient you are with your heart and your breathing and your fat burning. And I was just. Okay, I was not bad for a woman my age, which is elderly, but I'm trying to improve it. So I went on this eight week program or six week program of running. Like some days are 56 minutes.

[Scott Galloway]

That's great. Yeah. If you can run, especially at your age, if you can run for 50 minutes.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah. It's interesting. Cause I really. I find I used to run when I was younger and I liked it. And I do it both on the treadmill and outside. So I like the treadmill, actually. Cause I have the arm thing. I measure it. I like the measurement part, Scott. I like all the. You know, I don't know why, I just like it. It makes me feel good.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, you also run harder because unless I like running outside, I run at Regent's park and I play music and listen to Tom Petty. But if you don't have a metric kind of tracking how fast you're run running, you don't run that fast. You have a tendency to kind of slow down, like, oh, this hurts. So I was reading an article on the Navy SEALs, and they said they tried to find cohorts that were likely to be the most successful. I guess about 6 or 8% of people who show up for Navy SEALs, and these aren't Joey Baggadon showing up to try and be a Navy seal, you got to be in pretty good shape, but only 6 or 8% make it through. And they said it's not a function of skills, it's not a function of how in shape you are. It's a function of mental fitness. And the thing about running, and the reason why I would always encourage young people and I'm trying to do it with my sons, to do some sort of individual sport that requires a certain level of cardiovascular strain, is that you learn just how incredibly hard you can push yourself and you develop that mental fitness. And the cohort that has the highest graduation rate of Navy SEALS training is people who are like long distance runners, people who rode crew water polo. Because it's basically about training your mind to go another quarter, half a mile, even when you think you can't. Because what you find out is, no, you can't. The human body is Exceptional. And the confidence to break limits and go further faster than you ever thought possible is an incredible skill to have that you only get from that type of cardiovascular strain.

[Kara Swisher]

That's true. Although pretty much all the experts now, they say you shouldn't kill yourself either. You should go up and down. But no, even going up and down helps if you can recover quickly. If you can get your. If your heart's up at 150 at the high. You know, in my case, that's one of the highest ones. If you can get it back down to 113 pretty efficiently, you burn more fat. Like the ability for the heart to be more efficient is. Anyway, it's fascinating. It's fascinating. We're going to make it.

[Scott Galloway]

I think it's.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, I'm enjoying it. I'm enjoying it. You're a little quieter today than the other day. You were excited to be back, are you?

[Scott Galloway]

You know, I had. I had trouble getting to sleep last night, so I took an edible and I still couldn't sleep, so I took Xanax and then Daddy slept. And Daddy's still a little. A little, arguably, Xanaxy. Yeah, a little Xanax.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, Xanax. I've never taken any sleeping pill. Anyway, Scott, we have to liven you up. We have a lot to get to today. You know, there's a lot going on. And by the way, happy birthday to lucky. She turned 91. I drove her up to my brother's house, who has.

[Scott Galloway]

That's great.

[Kara Swisher]

My brother David, my younger brother, who you don't know, has built the most beautiful house up in Pennsylvania. So we drove Lucky's ass up.

[Scott Galloway]

Where does he live?

[Kara Swisher]

Pennsylvania. Up in northeast Pennsylvania.

[Scott Galloway]

Does the town have a name or is he worried about that?

[Kara Swisher]

I do, but I don't think he's very private.

[Scott Galloway]

Okay.

[Kara Swisher]

Northeast Pennsylvania.

[Scott Galloway]

Is he a prepper? Is he one of those guys?

[Kara Swisher]

I wouldn't say he isn't. He's got a lot of equipment and a lot of bows and arrows and things like that.

[Scott Galloway]

Does he have kids?

[Kara Swisher]

He does. He has two really wonderful sons. Really good. All the Swisher grandchildren are fantastic. I have to say, Lucky's done a good job, I guess.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah. And what's strange is that both your brothers. You know, I talk about this a lot, but the kind of the. The point of. Or the biggest point of failure for boys not turning into productive, loving men is when they lose a male role model. And you guys lost your father very early. So Lucky clearly did something right. Or they. You guys had. I Don't know. You guys found positive influences.

[Kara Swisher]

I left my dad around till my older brother was seven. I was five, three, you know?

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, that's losing your dad really early.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, I know. I know it is. But I'm just saying there is that, like, I'm really close to Clara, and she's just five, right?

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah.

[Kara Swisher]

I mean, I don't know if you know this, but Amanda had Covid and so did, and then Saul got it, and Clara and I escaped. But so I spent a lot of time with both kids, and then just one. But, you know, I think it's just parenting. Really good parenting. But you're right about male role models, and Jeffrey and David have been very good role models to my sons.

[Scott Galloway]

I think ideally it's a mix of feminine and masculine energy, and we're scared to say that, but I think men.

[Kara Swisher]

Become a little masculine.

[Scott Galloway]

I think men protect and women heal, and together it creates us more human, I think. And by the way, there's no reason why two women can't bring that same great combination or two men can't bring that same combination. But I do think the ultimate alchemy of success in a loving household is a combination of masculine and feminine energy, and I'm sticking to it.

[Kara Swisher]

But anyway, we had a great party.

[Scott Galloway]

For Lucky, and then you got an Uber and got her back to the home. It's time to go.

[Kara Swisher]

I drove her down.

[Scott Galloway]

It's time to go.

[Kara Swisher]

We drove up in the Kia, my friend. That's what we did. It was fancy. Anyway, we've got a lot to get to today, including Trump's dinner with the Tech Bros And Tesla, offering Elon a massive new pay package. But first, Trump is rebranding the Department of Defense as the Department of War, restoring a name last used in the 1940s. Let's listen to him explain the rebrand in the Oval Office last week.

[Scott Galloway]

So we won the First World War, we won the Second World War, we won everything before that, and in between. And then we decided to go woke and we changed the name to Department of Defense.

[Kara Swisher]

That's fucking ridiculous. But Pete Hegseth, the Secretary of War, as we're now being asked to call him, which I refuse, took it further. Let's listen.

[Scott Galloway]

We're going to go on offense, not just on defense. Maximum lethality, not tepid legality. Violent effect, not politically correct. We're going to raise up warriors, not just defenders.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, my God, I don't even know what to say. He is such a small penis. All right, I'll note now The Department of War is just a secondary title for the Defense Department. Official name change would require an act of Congress. And while Trump is downplaying the price tag, if his name change reports suggest it could rebrand could cost billions. Just even changing like all the logos and stuff like that. Over the weekend, Trump posted quote, chicago is about to find out why it's called the Department of War. Incredibly violent to a US City that's done nothing to him. This idea of maximum, maximum lethality, violent effect offense, not defense going woke. I mean, the whole thing is just insane, I think. But I don't know, what do you think from a banding perspective?

[Scott Galloway]

Well, it's just not accurate. First off, they're trying to solve a problem that doesn't need solving.

[Kara Swisher]

That's correct.

[Scott Galloway]

U.S. defense Department. And our there is no one more lethal than United States Marine, Seals, special Ops, CIA. I mean, we can deliver more lethality anywhere in the world than any entity in history. So the notion somehow that it needs some sort of rebranding to give this performative, you know, masculine weirdness or that's not masculinity, that's little dick weirdness. And this, unfortunately, this attempt to create some sort of illusion of machoness is making us less safe because one of the things they're doing is saying to transgender people who have served our nation proudly and competently, we're just going to kick you out. In some attempt to show that we're tough. It's also not accurate. We changed the name for a reason, and that is Conquest was in fact a way you developed economic security and prosperity back in the 15th, 16th, 17th century and before that. And then when the nation's largest powers developed the bomb, it was clear that trying to invade Russia or Russia trying to invade a democratic nation could result in nuclear Armageddon. So we reconfigured our policies around the military and we accurately and justifiably changed the name to Defense and Modern Warfare. The reality of modern warfare is the following. It's about cyber and space domains. It's about information warfare, it's about economic sanctions, and it's about diplomacy and trade. Also a really good Defense Department is about deterrent, and that is when Hamas tries to inspire a five front war by going in and butchering people in Israel. And Biden deploys two carrier strike forces. He's there to tell the Iranian proxies to sit the fuck down, not to invade Iran. NATO, which is arguably the largest military force in the world outside of the US is there to present to Keep in check the Soviet sphere. We're not planning to invade Russia. So defense is the right term. And even on practical levels, levels, it hurts us because our Defense Department does a lot of recruiting at nyu. The CIA is a big recruiter, the NSA is a big recruiter. The armed services are a big recruiter. And do you think more people are inclined to consider going to work for the Defense Department or the Department of War? And when you show up with representatives trying to strike a deal or negotiate, just saying, hi, I'm here from the Department of War. It reflects this aggressive faux macho culture where he's threatening, threatening to take over Canada and Greenland. And it further alienates our enemies and convinces them they have a need to bind together and form a unified force against us.

[Kara Swisher]

Against us. Right. So here's the thing. First of all, let's keep in mind that Donald Trump has never served in the military and got out because of bone spurs. Let's never forget that. And this idea that we decided to go woke, we didn't win the second World War, we were brought into these wars and actually settled them is what we did. We didn't like go on offensive for these wars. And then Pete Hag said is such small dick energy. He can't. By the way, speaking of not being able to do a pull up, he barely could do one. Just.

[Scott Galloway]

That's unfair. Just to be clear.

[Kara Swisher]

Not unfair.

[Scott Galloway]

It was a challenge. No, no, no, no, no. You're referring to a challenge which I'm going to do where it's 100 push ups and 50 pull ups. And that was his 50th, which was terrible form. But Secretary Chef is actually in great shape. So is RFK Jr. And by the way, I'm gonna do the same thing and I'm gonna kick both their asses.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, okay, good. But I'm just saying this like performative masculinity is so strange. And this is the, this is what like teenage, very badly raised teenage boys think of as manliness. Like, you're right, you've written a whole book on this. We're not gonna raise up warriors. Not just defenders. They are warriors. They just happen to defend. Violent. The word violent, lethality. It's just. I don't even understand it. It's so weird and fucked up. I mean, this is such a bad message to young men. That's the other part.

[Scott Galloway]

Real men who are in great shape and have the ability to deploy violence should they need, they're the ones that break up fights in bars. They don't start Them, they're the ones that don't shitpost their country. They compliment it and defend it. They're the ones. Their first instinct is towards protection. It's towards defense. It's not going on offense to try and we live in a world where no one nation has the power to take over the world. And the notion that what are we going to name? We're going to change the name of the Coast Guard to Coast Attack? I mean, it's just this is unnecessarily performative. It sends entirely the wrong signal. It's going to make recruiting harder. It's a bureaucracy democratic nightmare for all. Just from stationary to treaties that say Department of Defense. It doesn't reflect the most violent nations in the world, whether it's Russia or North Korea. They call it defense because they want to say, no, we're here to defend. The US Is about defending its interests overseas. And when it needs to, it can go on offense like no other entity in history. No one is saying, oh, those Americans are so gentle. We've had so many military incursions, we have killed so many people. And the notion that changing the name, where we are screwing up is this faux macho.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, I thought it died in, like the 80s. I thought this faux macho thing died.

[Scott Galloway]

It's limiting the talent pool. You need super thoughtful people who believe in our nation and believe in our defense. And also I do believe there are a lot of people out there that want to kill us. I believe in going on the offense militarily. I just do. And if we don't, then let's take our military budget down to 2 or 300 billion because we'd use the money and Canada's not about to invade us. So I'm all for an offensive strategy, but it's there to protect our interests, defend our allies. It's not there to conquer nations.

[Kara Swisher]

I think we'll go get something.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, that shit's over. That era's over. We're not going to decide. Okay. I mean, you could argue, and I would argue, that there's a strategic interest in displacing Maduro and then having a very strong alliance with Guyana because of that light sweet crude they have. I get that, but that's going to be done through diplomacy, maybe some covert operations, but it's about information warfare, economic sanctions, deterrence, all kinds of things. The Department of War, same thing.

[Kara Swisher]

Same thing with J.D. vance. And the we'll just bomb whoever we want without proof of anything was insane. Like, I'm so sorry, jd, Your mother was a drug addict. But you really have to stop. Like it's really like, it's so extrajudicial. It's so Duterte. It's so not American. Like all this stuff, it's so un American. But it's just me. I mean, there are such things.

[Scott Galloway]

Just to correct the record, just I realize. By the way, I think Hillbilly Elegy was a brilliant book. I think he's a fantastic writer. I think he's a very intelligent man. But also, let's just clarify a little bit. J.D. vance's Appalachian upbringing. This was a guy taking golf lessons in high school who tried out for the varsity golf team. I mean, one wonderful thing about America is that we like to play down our advantage and we respect people who come from modest means. But I think he's definitely played that hand, if you will. He's definitely rebranded himself a little bit more country. He's definitely gone a little bit more Maria, Donny and Maria in terms of his upbringing.

[Kara Swisher]

I know, I agree. But I'm just saying this is all such small dick energy. And then with all the. We'll get to that in a minute. They're all fighting with each other, talking about throwing hands, all these. It's ridiculous. They're ridiculous.

[Scott Galloway]

Supposedly Besant is getting in fistfights.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, and the guy he was yelling at is an asshole. Punchable face, no question. Pulte. And same thing with Elon. But still, it's such blech. Such blech. Anyway, let's move on. Speaking of someone, people who are throwing weight around. The US tech companies gained a combined 420 billion in market cap last week. The gains lifted their total value to $21 trillion, making them the third of the S&P 500. You have referenced this many times. Well, one cause of the judge was Google's antitrust win in the US the company is facing a new $3.45 billion fine in the EU for anti competitive practices. Not off the hook. President Trump threatened the EU with investigation that could lead to higher tariffs over the fine. Whatever. Any prediction here for what the rest of the year? You did pick Google, as you noted. But this is a lot. This is like a little too much of the S and P. When we should, as you said last week, focused on the other 400 companies, not these seven companies. Right.

[Scott Galloway]

Everything from the tariffs to what's going on with this new AI bill that basically is in free reign is essentially a transfer of wealth from the 490 traditional or more traditional companies in the S and P to the Magnificent Ten. And I had dinner with a friend of mine who works at Apollo and he said something just fascinating. He said that to justify the current valuations of the AI centered companies, specifically Magnificent 10, it implies that they're going to be able to find an incremental trillion dollars in revenues or efficiencies from their clients. Right? What that means is okay, if we buy more Nvidia chip and have enterprise licenses with Anthropic or OpenAI will be able to cut a trillion dollars worth of costs. So far I would argue the vast majority is coming from efficiencies, which is Latin for cutting your legal expenses. I talked to a Fortune 500 company CEO last week. He thinks that this year they're going to reduce their legal expenses by a third and next year by another third. Right? So one of two things is going to happen. If you think about a trillion dollars in quote unquote savings, right? And there are 150 million Americans who work. It's only 150 million. And assume half that industry is immune somewhat from AI. Chiropractors, plumbers, masseuses, whoever it is, right? Hairdressers, they're somewhat immune from AI. Let's assume that half the market, and that's probably generous, is susceptible to these quote unquote efficiencies or cost cuts in AI, which is Latin for we need less lawyers, consultants, whoever, right? It's just a huge destruction. Producers, the 192 people that are about to be laid off from the Colbert show as he takes six to a podcast. If you assume a load factor and salary of 100,000, a trillion dollars is 10 million jobs. 10 million jobs from a universe of 75 million is about a 15% destruction in employment. A 15% destruction in employment in any industry over the next 24 to 36 months is literally Armageddon. That may not sound like a lot, but that means that industry is in a state of chaos. So one of two things is going to happen. Either these companies valuations are going to get cut in half or we're going to have massive employment destruction across a small number of industries. Now someone would say, Scott, there's a door three in that it creates incremental opportunities and incremental revenue. I don't see any company saying, oh, we're putting out a new car because of AI. That's making us more money. I don't see l' Oreal going. We've launched new moisture using AI and it's creating new markets for us. What you're seeing is big companies are saying we're going to starch out a lot of costs with AI. So which is it? Either these companies are going to get cut in half or we're going to see a massive. And maybe that's capitalism. I'm not saying it's a bad thing or we're going to see a massive destruction and reduction in costs in the means of production, which is Latin for massive layoffs in certain industries.

[Kara Swisher]

I actually do say it's a bad thing because those are who don't spend. Right. Those are the. It's a problematic situation if people feel, you know, look, every tech person, anytime you say they're always like every tech change has created more wealth. Okay, let's see that. What is it? Explain to us.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, it's shareholder wealth right now.

[Kara Swisher]

It's shareholder wealth. That's correct. It's stock wealth. And so the question is like you remember we had. I'm not gonna say who it was. Scott and I had sort of a drinks with someone and he was saying, remember he said he was gonna cut his Software people from 6000 to 2000 or some number like that. It was some number and that was about a year ago, like noticing efficiencies. But again, it didn't make a better product or a new product or move into new areas. It wasn't, it was only just cutting people.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, I'll make them. I'll. I'll do the strong man. So the average, in 1995, the average profit margin of the S&P 500 was about 5%. Today it's roughly 11%. So the average profits have more than doubled. That should imply that they in fact have more money. And the bar for green lighting, new products, new ideas, new factories has been lowered and they are building massive. They are making massive capex investments. If you are good with your hands and comfortable in a construction site and are willing to go 12 or 24 months and get a degree in like specialty construction as it relates to nuclear power plants, you can probably make $150,000 by the time you're 23 or 25. So there is going to be new jobs, new creation. I don't think you get in the way of this destruction. Now unfortunately, a lot of that additional margin is going to profits that companies like Apple are spending on share buybacks or 110 billion. Apple spent more on share buybacks last year, I believe it was $110 billion. It's rivaling their R and D. So what does that do? It takes the existing share price up. But you could argue it's not really going back into the economy. It's going into the pockets of the 10% that own 90% of the stocks. So. So there is growth. It does result in economic growth and it should result in new industries with higher paying jobs. And I don't think you can get in the way of it. But what we are really bad at here, we're really good at figuring out ways to lay off people and force them to find industries where there's growth and create more profit and more margin. What we're really bad at is figuring out systemic training and means to help give those people the Runway such that. But what happens is. Did you see all these farmers complaining?

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

I mean, and no one has. It's like the world's tiniest violins. Two thirds of farmers voted for Trump and now they're all fucking freaked out.

[Kara Swisher]

We voted for racism, but not this.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, they're all freaked out and they're all asking for bailout. And these were the same people that were just horrified by a student loan bailout. Right. I agree. We should have capitalism. Companies should go out of business. If we have technology that puts, you know, Colbert's team out of work, or mediocre lawyers out of work, or mediocre consultants, I'm all for it. But what you need to do is tax these organizations such that you have the capital to retrain people and not have people live in a state of fear and not worry about not having health insurance if they're one of those consultants or bankers or whoever it is that gets laid off. That's what we're really bad at.

[Kara Swisher]

Can I just point out you put up something about taxing the rich. I thought was interesting, your statistics about how we've moved from 90% to like 28%.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, we'll talk about that when we talk about Elon. Right? Okay. Okay. Our taxes on corporations are the lowest they've been since 1939. And every, you know, with these deficits, it's pretty easy, folks. We gotta do one of two things. We either gotta spend less money or we gotta tax people more. Otherwise our kids are just not gonna have the benefit of the investments in public infrastructure and technology and education that we've enjoyed.

[Kara Swisher]

Yep, absolutely. Anyway, we'll see what happens. But these tech companies will still lead the way. And when we get back, we'll find out why. We'll go on a quick break. When we come back, Trump's big tech DIN Party.

[Scott Galloway]

Support for the show comes from CODA Powered by Grammarly Watching a team come together to make an amazing idea reality is a thing of beauty. But watching a team try to keep track of all the information, data and projects they're working on across dozens of platforms, products and tools can be painful. Coda can help. Coda is the all in one collaborative workspace that's helped 50,000 teams over the world get on the same page. Offering the flexibility of documents with the structure of spreadsheets, Coda facilitates deeper teamwork and quicker creativity and their turnkey AI solution, the intelligence of Coda Brain is a game changer. Powered by Grammarly, Coda is entering a new phase of innovation and expansion, aiming to redefine productivity for the AI era. Whether you're a startup looking to organize the chaos while staying nimble, or an enterprise organization looking for better alignment, Coda matches your working style and it seamlessly connects to hundreds of your favorite tools including Salesforce, Jira, Asana and Figma. Head over to Coda IO Pivot right now and get six months of the team plan for startups for free. That's C O D a IO Pivot and get six months of the team plan for free. Coda IO Pivot.

[Kara Swisher]

Support for this show comes from netsuite. Two roads diverged the yellow wood and I took the one less traveled by. That may be a poetic way for Robert Frost to make a decision, but if you're a business leader, you need to base your decisions on more than a gut feeling. You need actionable data. NetSuite says they can help NetSuite by Oracle is your AI powered business management suite trusted by over 42,000 businesses. NetSuite by Oracle grants you total visibility from ground shipments to tariff impacts to real time cash flow. NetSuite brings accounting, financial management, inventory, HR into one fluid platform with one unified business management suite. There's one source of truth giving you visibility and control. You need to make quick decisions with real time insights and forecasting. You're peering into the future with actionable Data. Download the CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at netsuite.com pivot the guide is free to you at netsuite.com pivot that's netsuite.com pivot hey, it's Ryan Reynolds.

[Scott Galloway]

Here for Mint Mobile now. I was looking for fun ways to tell you that Mint's offer of unlimited Premium Wireless for $15 a month is back, so I thought it would be fun if we made $15 bills, but it turns out that's very illegal, so there goes my Big idea for the commercial. Give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront payment.

[Kara Swisher]

Of $45 for three month plan equivalent to $15 per month required new customer offer for first three months only. Speed slow after 35 gigabytes of network's busy. Taxes and fees extra. See mint mobile.com Scott, we're back. President Trump hosted a big dinner party at the White House last week with attendees including Mark Zuckerberg, Bill Gates and Sam Altman. All of them were there. Tim Cook was there. Sergey Brin, Satya Nade. Everybody was there. One notable figure was missing, Elon Musk. Musk says he was invited but couldn't make it. But other people say he wasn't invited. I don't care. I don't care. The guests were full of praise for the President. It pretty grotesque to watch. Bill Gates thanked him for quote, setting the tone such that we could make a major investment in the U.S. i think Bill Gates is doing it so he can save usaid. I'm okay with him. I'm gonna give him the only out the rest of it was so they will live to regret what they're doing here, I think. Or maybe they won't. I mean this short term gains. I think. This was so grotesque and it reminded me of that story I wrote in 2016 when they went up the Trump Tower and did the exact same thing. Cause it was in their interests. They're going to grow a back bone. Anyone. They're going to keep up this shtick. It's good for their business. It was particularly gross and especially Zuckerberg, who tried to explain himself, looked like a real toady in a room full of toadies. Any thoughts on this?

[Scott Galloway]

I thought they made sex work look dignified. I mean, I think, I think paying some guy 50 bucks to suck my is more dignified than what these guys did. Who do you really think, Scott? What is the point of aggregating all these skills? These guys work so hard, they're so talented, they rally hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people. They build these amazing products so they can become billionaires so they can go and fellate. I know, I was thinking an insurrectionist.

[Kara Swisher]

What in the fuck? And they all complained about the insurrection.

[Scott Galloway]

I understand the notion of staying below the radar. Don't antagonize him. Don't say anything. Just stay out of his way. I get it. I'm meeting, I'm having lunch with the chancellor of a iconic public college tomorrow and they want to talk about a variety of things including how they respond to Trump. And I'm like, you are not. And I'm loathe to even say the name, which I won't. But my basic thing is, don't say anything. Just stay out of his sights, stay out of his crosshairs. But these guys. Sam Harris sort of changed my life of making sense. The podcaster, he said, if you have economic security and people who love you unconditionally, you have an obligation to speak out, because so few people can. People have to worry about their economic livelihood. They have to. Maybe. There's a lot of reasons why you may not want to be provocative as a younger person if you're not economically secure. Sure. And these guys will always say, well, it's about shareholder value. I'm going to add a lot of value to Apple because I'm going to.

[Kara Swisher]

I don't want tariffs, blah, blah, blah.

[Scott Galloway]

But you would think one of them would say, okay, the ass cancer's showing up pretty soon. Bezos Cook, you're not young men. And are you going to say on your deathbed, I would think one of them would think, you know what? I'd like to be that guy that.

[Kara Swisher]

Said, I just don't. And we're not asking them to fall on, like, Benioff, maybe, who's. No, no, no. He probably wanted, you know, nobody, Nobody, nobody, nobody. They're just. They. All they do is fellate. That's all they do now. And I'm sort of like, I got some texts from someone that were like, oh, yes, we're embarrassed, too. I'm like, fuck you. Like, at this point, like, why have all that money if you can't? At least.

[Scott Galloway]

That's exactly right. What's the point?

[Kara Swisher]

What's the point? What's the. Is there nothing you could do? You know, of all the people, at least Elon went out on a limb for Trump. He did something right. He thought that however misguided you may think he is, like, do any of. I guess Reid Hoffman does and has been pretty firm about it.

[Scott Galloway]

Even Reid's.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

Pulled back a little bit. Reid is. I think Reid is probably justifiably, like, worried.

[Kara Swisher]

He is worried.

[Scott Galloway]

He's talking about it. He's trying to stay out of his crosshairs right now. The economic opportunity is not for a tech company, but for a consumer company to just, in a very thoughtful, elegant way, without even saying the president's name, run commercials talking about what an important role immigrants have played, what an important role the gay community and the transgender community have played in our Defense Department. What an important role how rights in America and equality and respect for institutions. I mean, you could fire up so many amazing creative agencies to have the most powerful commercials that would be very clear what you are saying. And you know what would happen? They would have a torrent of business. Because the bottom line is the people who are against this bullshit are the. The mostly the only people who really matter in consumer America, and that is educated people with disposable income.

[Kara Swisher]

You know, it's interesting. The only people who actually are much more public would be celebrities like Colbert or Ariana Grande. When she won yesterday, I think it was the MTV music whatever said, I want to thank my therapist and the gays. It was just like, adorable. She's adorable. But it's really. Celebrities seem to be saying things right and not worrying about them.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, it's comedians and celebrities.

[Kara Swisher]

But yeah, I'm just saying they don't. They don't. They aren't. They're much more. I would say they're much more outspoken than they've ever been. And it's not just virtue signaling.

[Scott Galloway]

But here's the problem. It kind of doesn't fucking matter.

[Kara Swisher]

I know it doesn't. It matters that these guys do. I know. I'm just trying to think of who speaks up.

[Scott Galloway]

Celebrities don't sway a lot. We fall under the cold comfort of believing that America is a democracy. Okay. Sort of. Because the reality is the passive populace doesn't win elections. It's organized special interest groups. And technology is now so powerful and has so much money that they can kind of sway elections and sway government. I mean, I'm increasingly about this notion that the only real means of fighting back at this point is if we can rally enough Americans to at least pick a time period and stop spending money.

[Kara Swisher]

Right. Or stopping. Stopping doing things. Stopping.

[Scott Galloway]

No, it's these organized special interest groups that impact Washington and have all the power. And if tech. If we could figure out a way to get tech on our side, they could absolutely check back on Trump. If they all together met in the.

[Kara Swisher]

Parking lot and said they didn't in 2016. Scott, they won't.

[Scott Galloway]

But I just. I mean this sincerely.

[Kara Swisher]

I sincerely mean how many times has they been in front of the fucking president? Other people don't get to be like, how many times have we seen Mark Zuckerberg at the inauguration? Mark Zuckerberg at the White House? Mark Zuckerberg, Marco Lago, Mark Zuckerberg on the stupid White House. Like, enough. You've had enough facetime with that fucker. So, like, what why didn't they have the head of Caterpillar there at least or something. Some company that matters beyond these bunch of.

[Scott Galloway]

But if Bob Iger just said, look, I've been around the block, you know, Disney is about American values and I'm just very uncomfortable with the idea of censorship. I think Disney subscriptions would triple in 60 days.

[Kara Swisher]

I think you've come under the.

[Scott Galloway]

Elliot Hill from Nike said, we're about winning and part of winning is strong American institutions. We are an American company. They could do such an outstanding.

[Kara Swisher]

Yeah, he didn't make a comment after the vaccine thing in Florida. Said nothing.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, I think this is. I think it's not only the right thing to do, I think it's an enormous commercial opportunity for a consumer brand to just talk about crickets, traditional American values.

[Kara Swisher]

Crickets, let me say. Crickets is what is happening. Speaking of weirdnesses, Elon Musk become the world's first trillionaire under a new pay package from Tesla's board.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, I don't think he's going to be the world's first trillionaire. What do you think, Kara?

[Kara Swisher]

I do not think he's going to be the world's first trillionaire. The compensation all in Tesla stock is tied to hitting ambitious targets in the next 10 years, including getting the company's market value from where it's around just above 1 trillion to which is a ridiculous price anyway to 8.5 trillion, delivering a total of 20 million vehicles which the declining sales, it's now at its lowest rates, putting a million robo taxi on the road and also a million, I think of those robots that don't exist or there's just a few of them. The board is also saying that Elon needs to develop a succession framework to earn out a portion of this ridiculous. These benchmarks are just watered down versions of promises Elon's been making for years. As TechCrunch pointed out correctly, Tesla shareholders are also set to vote on investing in Xai at an upcoming annual meeting. I mean, the whole thing, he should just mash all his companies together and hope for the best.

[Scott Galloway]

I don't think we need trillionaires, but I don't think we should get in the way of people becoming trillionaires. I think one of the wonderful things about American capitalism is that if you take risks, you start your own companies, you invent something new, literally, the upside is unlimited and no government agency or bureaucrats is going to tell you it's going to say to you, you're too rich, that's fine. Have at it. I like having billionaires, I like having trillionaires. Let's talk about this specific pay package. It's saying we're going to give you options on 14% of the outstanding stock of the company. That is well outside of the range of most CEO packages. Fine. He's an exceptional individual. It's given the benefit of the doubt. Out. In addition, the board of Tesla, which has a compensation committee deciding the compensation package of the CEO, which by the way is the hardest thing on a board, I find is compensation is elected by the owners. We believe in private capital and we believe in private property. So the owners of a company get to decide what they're going to pay the CEO. So there's nothing in my opinion, if I was on that comp committee, I would say no, it's probably more like 3 to 8%, not 14%. And what it's basically saying is if he increases the value of all shareholders for 7 trillion, he gets a trillion dollar commission. I don't think that is totally outrageous. Where you should be focused on is if somebody makes a trillion dollars that they pay an incremental marginal tax rate of 90%. So I like the idea of full body contact capitalism that motivates people to work really hard and come up with new ideas. I just think those people need to pay a lot more taxes rather than move to Texas and end up paying, you know, he'll end up paying about 17 or 18% if in fact he gets that money. Whereas the people working in those factories are probably paying 30 or 35%.

[Kara Swisher]

Okay, I want you from. Can he hit these targets? What can he do to get to $8.5 trillion, deliver 20 million vehicles and put a million robo taxis on the road. The cars are being overwhelmed by competitors like BYD and others. By the way, there's two new competitors to him. I think from. I can't remember who it was. There's some really beautiful cars out there. How does he do it, Scott, whether you give it to him or not? Sure, why not? I want to. Carol, if you can beat, I don't know, LeBron James, you can be in the NBA. Sure. I don't get it. I don't get how he gets there standing here.

[Scott Galloway]

And now with BYD basically offering a Tesla Tesla, let's be kind, 80% of a Tesla. Some people think it's 100 or 110% of a Tesla for 40 to 60% of the price, where his autonomous driving seems to be well behind. And all these jazz hands trying to distract people from a trillion dollar market cap company that's really probably worth somewhere between 50 and 200 billion with bullshit like robots and Mars and how he would get there, in my view, or to be clear, SpaceX has monopoly that's having 80% market share of space is really enticing. But if you just look at the actual numbers and what would be required to add $7 trillion in market cap, they're basically saying you're going to get a trillion dollars if this becomes the most valuable company in the world by a factor of two. It looks near impossible. I would be willing to bet a lot of money that he is never going to get that trillion dollars. Having said that, Kevin era. I said the same thing seven years ago, that Tesla could never be worth more than every automobile company combined and he would be able to launch SpaceX.

[Kara Swisher]

Right. But that was when it was a meme stock and he was on the upswing. Right.

[Scott Galloway]

But it happened, right?

[Kara Swisher]

It did.

[Scott Galloway]

So he would have to do again what he has accomplished to date in terms of valuation, in terms of performance, it's remarkable in terms of the market's response to it.

[Kara Swisher]

It.

[Scott Galloway]

It's insanely like unbelievable. So could he do. Is it likely to happen? Highly unlikely. Was it likely he was gonna get to this point? Also highly unlikely. So.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, much, much.

[Scott Galloway]

You think this is much more aggressive than even what was outlayed five years ago?

[Kara Swisher]

I don't think. I think he's old. I think he's has some personal problems. I think he's got some health problems. I think he can't come up with a new trick. I think. Listen, listen. Everyone's like oh, if anyone. He can. I'm like can he? Now this is a number that's just beyond belief. It could be a meme stock. That's the only way to me it could happen. Or he merged SpaceX with this and who cares about Xai or the other one? Maybe if he merged them all, I guess and then pretended it was called Tesla, I suppose.

[Scott Galloway]

But meme stocks have generally had. Other than you could argue Palantir is Palantir and meme stock trading at a little bit. I don't. Generally speaking they haven't had. There aren't enough meme investors to justify a multi trillion dollar market cap company. But again, it all comes back.

[Kara Swisher]

He needs a new product is all I'm saying. And a new bit of energy in and of himself.

[Scott Galloway]

I don't know. Yeah. We continue to talk about him like he's a runaway teen. He's getting AARP mail.

[Kara Swisher]

That's what I'm saying.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, I'm 100% agree with you. But again, I don't think we're having the right conversation. And I like, like the idea of a kid reading someone might be a trillionaire. I want to pay him a trillion dollars and then I want 90% of it to go to the U.S. treasury. Because here's the thing, we're spending $7 trillion. We're taking in five. We have to raise taxes, we have to cut spending. So let's shelve cutting spending for right now. All roads lead to entitlement cuts, by the way. But let's talk about revenues or taxes. The key is to find taxes that are the least, least taxing. And what Israeli American psychologist Daniel Kahneman discovered, he did a lot of research here, is that once you get above a certain level, no incremental happiness. If Elon Musk on that trillion dollars gets to hold on to 800 billion of it or 200 billion of it, it's going to make no difference in his life. In addition, I'm going off scripture. We should eliminate the exemption on trust because you inheriting 10 million versus 15 from Lucky, it's gonna happen. It's gonna make no difference in your life.

[Kara Swisher]

It's not happening.

[Scott Galloway]

Okay? So the vast majority of wealth that is inherited is from a small number of people to a small number of kids. And if your kid is gonna get 5 million instead of 7, no one's any less happier. So there are some fairly. When we had a society with much less income inequality and people felt much better about America, guess what? The incremental tax rates on people making so much fucking money they couldn't spend it all were much higher. Anyway, I'm ranting lower taxes on everyone up to a million and above a million. Oh my God. You know, progressive all caps, tax structure. And no one was any less happy.

[Kara Swisher]

They looked so miserable at that dinner. And plus they didn't get to go onto the new patio, the new rose garden. What looks like such a cheap version of a Marriott. It looks like a Marriott, like a medium level Marriott.

[Scott Galloway]

They're prostitutes with a half bottle of cheap jack of cheap bourbon, drank condoms hanging out of their ass. And pimp has just said, you got another 11 Johns tonight.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh my God.

[Scott Galloway]

They look exhausted, abused, tired and humiliated. They're like, how did I end up here?

[Kara Swisher]

Okay, did you see Gavin Newsom say he's gonna jackhammer that fucking thing if he was president? The stupid Trump glove.

[Scott Galloway]

Anyway, first off, eliminate I hate to say eliminate ice, just symbolically. Absolutely. Department of Defense. There are so many. Whoever the new president is, assuming he's not Vance, he's gonna spend all his time cleaning up is literally gonna be the circus clown behind an elephant, just scooping up shit for the first three or six months.

[Kara Swisher]

All right, let's go on a quick break and when we come back, RFK Jr continues to create chaos. What a fucking math.

[Scott Galloway]

Support for pivot comes from LinkedIn ads. Sometimes the best B2B marketing doesn't fail because of your message. It fails because it never reaches the right people. You can have the sharpest creative, the most persuasive offer and a campaign you're proud of. But if it lands in the wrong inbox or shows up in the wrong feed, it's wasted. So if you want to reach the right professionals, you should check out link. LinkedIn ads. LinkedIn has grown into a network of over 1 billion professionals and 130 million decision makers worldwide. And that's exactly what sets it apart from other ad buys. It's not just about reach. It's about reaching the right people in the right context. And LinkedIn is where business actually gets done. You can target your buyers by job title, industry, company role, seniority, skills and company revenue. So you can stop wasting budget on the wrong audience. It's why LinkedIn ads generates the highest B2B ROA of all online ad networks. Seriously, all of them. You can spend $250 on your first campaign on LinkedIn ads and get a free $250 credit to the next one, no strings attached. Just go to LinkedIn.com Scott, that's LinkedIn.com scoped. Terms and conditions apply according to the richest man in the world. My guest this week on Solutions with Henry Blythe has a heart that is, quote filled with seething hate. I have a different view of Kara Swisher, and I was very excited to ask her all about how she became such an incredible and incredibly outspoken journalist.

[Kara Swisher]

When I am talking to students, they're like, what's your best piece of advice? I said, you're dead in 100 years. That's really my best piece of advice.

[Scott Galloway]

Hear more of Kara's secrets to success and world dominance nation. Follow Solutions with Henry Blodgett wherever you get your podcasts. How are recent moves by the White House, from the attempted removal of a Federal Reserve governor to the government's equity stake in intel impacting the U.S. economy and institutions in the context of a Supreme Court that has vastly expanded presidential.

[Kara Swisher]

Powers that should alarm everyone.

[Scott Galloway]

I'm Preet Bharara and this week Nobel Prize winning economist Darren Acemoglu joins me on my podcast, Stay Tuned with Preet to discuss how institutional strength affects prosperity for individuals and society as a whole. The episode is out now. Search and follow Stay Tuned with Preet Wherever you get your podcast.

[Kara Swisher]

Scott, we're back. President Trump has mixed reactions to RFK Jr's heated appearance at the Senate Finance Committee last week. Let's listen to a clip from the hearing.

[Scott Galloway]

Do you accept the fact that a million Americans died from COVID I don't know how many died. You're the Secretary of Health and Human Services. You don't have any idea how many Americans died from COVID I don't think anybody knows because there was so much data chaos coming out of the cdc.

[Kara Swisher]

Oh my God, his voice just drives me. That was Senator Warner. In response, Trump said of the vaccines are quote, pure and simple. They work. But also defended RFK Jr saying he's a different type of guy and he's not the only one. Several Republican senators, including Bill Cassidy and Thom Tillis, expressed concern during Kennedy's hearing. Meanwhile, RFK Jr reportedly plans to announce that pregnant women's use of Tylenol is potentially linked to autism. Conservative he has now no proof of much of this and in fact, it's the same thing with the Florida Surgeon general said he didn't use any science when it came to deciding on the vaccines. Conservative polling firms reported warning GAP lawmakers that only 75% of Trump voters believe vaccines save lives. Thoughts?

[Scott Galloway]

2Nd Most Dangerous Person in the administration is Peter Navarro, who substantially reduce our prosperity, most dangerous person is RFK because when he gets up in front of Congress and lies and says I'm not anti vaccine and anyone can get a vaccine. No when you now say that it has to be under prescription or from a doctor's orders, you're gonna reduce the penetration of vaccines 1/3 to 2/3 and you're gonna increase disease by much more than that because you'll have a bunch of kids in third grade that have measles or rubella. This is arguably if this guy gains more traction and the CDC continues to be emasculated and this anti vaccine conspiracy bullshit continues to gain traction and people are confused even if they believe it or not. If you don't make it easy for people to get vaccines, fewer people are gonna get vaccines and more kids are gonna have their limbs cut off from advanced measles. This is just, it's one Thing. Europe has not prospered because they haven't grown, but they make good decisions. They're generally smart people. We are growing and yet we've decided how do we take a giant step back? This is insane. I do have to be honest though, I was really proud. That was Senator Warner. He's fantastic. I wish he would run for president. I thought Senator Bennett was good. I thought Senator Warren, Elizabeth Warren was really good. Senator Cantwell. I also thought Senator Cassidy was actually quite deft.

[Kara Swisher]

I know, but he had to win because he had been the one that wasn't gonna vote for him and he would have been the deciding one. And then he did, he got pressured from Trump.

[Scott Galloway]

They all claim to have concerns and then they all vote for what the Trump wants.

[Kara Swisher]

That's what I mean.

[Scott Galloway]

But he did say, he did say, look, you told me that you were gonna support vaccines and you don't seem to be doing this. So I thought he. Let me put it this way. He's done a whole hell of a lot more. But if you wanna talk about a lasting legacy of death, disease and disability, this is Bobby Kennedy. And also to the President's credit, he did say in a press or after that, I think some vaccines are good. I mean, it's a slight.

[Kara Swisher]

It doesn't matter. Again, it's like, cassie, I don't care, get rid of him.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, have you heard this Florida surgeon?

[Kara Swisher]

Oh, he's gonna be a qu.

[Scott Galloway]

Vaccine mandates with slavery.

[Kara Swisher]

He is so stupid. He's so stupid. And then was asked about the science and he goes, I didn't use science. I just think parents should be able to. I think really interestingly, someone had a question online and my brother, the doctor answered, like, if you get a vaccine, what do you care if they do? It's a public health issue. There are immunocompromised people who can't get vaccines, for one. Secondly, if you make them hard to get and more expensive expense insurance, if CDC doesn't back them, insurance companies don't pay for them and therefore poor people don't get them. People with money can get them, as always, but people who don't have means can't get them. And then lastly, it's a public health danger because also little babies don't get vaccines for what, a year and a half, two years? I have so many children, I don't remember. But there's a period of time when babies. That's why when you go to like any cemetery before we had vaccines, you see so many baby graves, right? Cause they Died of all kinds of diseases. We have eradicated and now it's back. There's so many reasons to do it that will protect everybody. But it's such a typical Trump thing.

[Scott Galloway]

Like, I feel as if, quote, unquote, the worm has turned against our community.

[Kara Swisher]

Yes, it seems like it, but he's still there. Trump doesn't let people go, people. Trump. Trump doesn't. He doesn't want to admit he was wrong. I think that's a bigger issue. I think he's.

[Scott Galloway]

You think his job is safe?

[Kara Swisher]

I think it would take a lot for him to get. He's done a lot and he. And I think a lot. I don't know, I just. I just think Trump is just sticks to his guns. He doesn't. I don't think Trump cares. I think he's an old man and he could. And he was always a selfish prick and he's going to remain a selfish prick the day he dies. That's all. Doesn't care. Doesn't care about public health. Doesn't care about people, poor people. Doesn't care about. Like, I don't think he thinks about one day in his life. He thinks about whether people booing for him or cheering at the US Open. By the way, they were booing mostly. Anyway, let's move on. Last thing. Anthropic has agreed to a one point. This is a really interesting case. I really wanna know what you think about this $1.5 billion settlement with a group of authors and publishers. That's after a judge ruled the company illegally acquired millions of copyrighted books. They nicked them, as they say. The settlement, $3,000 per work for about 500,000 authors, is the largest payout in the history of US copyright cases. By settling Anthrop, Anthropic avoids a trial that could have carried damages in the hundreds of billions. Also, I bet there were some nice emails around. All of this comes as Anthropic just closed a $13 billion funding round, tripling its valuation to 183 billion. What do you think this means for other AI companies? I'd just love your thoughts on this because they definitely. There was probably a lot of stuff would be my guess, and they thought, let's get this out of our way. We just got this funding. We can just fork over this money as part of it. It goes away.

[Scott Galloway]

I think you have a better grasp of IP and journalists and books. I want you to take this and I'll comment on it.

[Kara Swisher]

Okay. You know, I may have been in this group. I didn't do anything. But I have found my book stolen by these people. And maybe they paid for one copy, I guess, I suppose that's what they did. Or something like that.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, no, they don't have to buy it.

[Kara Swisher]

Right? Exactly.

[Scott Galloway]

Or maybe they buy the. Or yeah, maybe they do. You're right. Maybe they buy.

[Kara Swisher]

They buy one copy. One copy, right. It's so ridiculous the kind of stuff they're stealing. And it's. And to me, if we have these US copyright cases, they should. Copyright should matter here, just like it did YouTube back in the day. YouTube figured it out and ended up paying people. And it's turned out to be a great business. You know, you don't talk about YouTube stealing, but you did forever. Why would you build your business on stealing other people's content and then remaking it and putting, you know, these people worked on these things. They deserve to be paid. If you don't, you're a shoplifter. That's the only thing I can think of. And I suspect they settled because I'll bet there was emails, I bet there was some proof of what they did. And they would have been on the hook for this would have been over for this company had. Had it gone to trial would be my guess. Probably.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah. We, the incumbents benefit from the illusion of complexity. Like what's crawling, what's actual IP infringement, what isn't. No, it's pretty simple. This industry needs to adopt some sort of similar construct to what musicians do. And that is if you play, if you. Your KROQ in Los Angeles and you're playing the B52s and every year they say, okay, you can run, it's very seamless. You just track it. You play B52 songs 1100 times. You have to send Warner Brothers or whoever is the publisher of the B52s, you have to send them $1,100 to a rights management group. The rights management group then sends out checks to everyone from Madonna to Luke Holmes. And that's how they make money. And they say, okay, we have an infrastructure that's seamless, frictionless. People can use our content, but we get paid for it. These guys have plenty of money to pay for these rights. All they need is a tracking mechanism that says, okay. Kara's books informed us on this many queries. So she gets X amount of money and we send it to a rights group who then distributes the ip, distributes the payments. This is a system they could easily prop up, but instead they pretend it's too difficult because they'd rather just steal it. So I like this because it sets a precedent that these companies have committed IP theft. That's what it says. It says that they have taken something that has economic value and they owe these authors. The next step that I think is really what we really need is, again, what I wanted the New York Times to do is I wanted us all to get together and bind together as one group and then negotiate Microsoft against Google to see who got to crawl our stuff and who didn't. Because the biggest mistake we made back then was to just let them crawl it, thinking it was going to send us more traffic and we'd serve them banner ads. And that just didn't work. So this is a moment in time. I think this is a step in the right direction. But I still think we got to get to a point where it's like, okay, when your book comes out, when your TV show comes out, when your podcast comes out, out, we have a means of tracking what percentage of it in terms of nuance and context, or direct data or direct quotes from this book have been used across all of our queries. And we're going to give you a certain percentage of our profits, and we're going to figure out a mechanism for figuring out who gets what. These guys could figure it out with a bunch of economists. And what we don't have is on our side. We don't have strong representation. We don't have someone. I mean, you know, our idea, we wanted Barry Diller to do this, right? To get everyone from Penguin Portfolio, Random House, to Disney to Conde Nast to Hearst to Dow Jones, and then basically say, all right, it's a bidding war, and whoever gives us the biggest slice of their pie gets access to this data. And maybe it's both. Maybe we do it for both, for everybody. Anthropic Llama. But there's enough money here to go around.

[Kara Swisher]

It's theft. It's theft. Let me just say I just went to Amazon, right? Remember, I complained when my book came out that they were ripping it off someone? So the first thing that results. Would you do? Kara Swisher is my burn book. And then my book. There must be a pony in here somewhere. And before that, AOL.com, those are all Kara Swisher books. Then right away, Kara Swisher, the fierce voice of text, speaking up, asking questions and making a difference. Like, as if I wrote it, like, and it's by some fake name. And then there's Kara Swisher, text queen bee with sting and Then there's Kara Swisher, navigating the digital insights and perspectives from a trailblazing journalist. I cooperated on none of it by someone named Scott P. Mundy. That's all AI. They're thieves is what they are. They're thieving my stuff, and I paid for it with my time and my money, and I should get all the money related to my stuff. And same thing with you. Let me look up Scott Galloway.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, they're gonna start crawling our podcasts, and they'll be able to, say, put out a pivot, like context. Same voices, same feel, same banter, same dick jokes. Jokes, but cover business. Not the same dick jokes, but cover business in Turkey. And they'll be able to spin it up. And I'm actually down with that as long as we get paid for it.

[Kara Swisher]

Well, except for a Scott Galloway biography. Honest Reflections on being a Real man and dad in an Uncertain, Ever Changing world. A new 2025 memoir from you. I don't know if you know that. You know, it looks like that's yours then. Okay. Biography of Scott Galley, including exercises for notes on being a man. They've already making an exercise book for you. The Algebra of Wealth Workbook. Fix in Scott Galloway's teachings into your mind. Issu McDonald wrote that. Whoever the fuck that is. Scott Galloway, the Untold Story. Oh, I'm going to get that one. The Untold Story of Scott Galloway.

[Scott Galloway]

There's nothing that hasn't been told.

[Kara Swisher]

I mean, seriously, fuck you.

[Scott Galloway]

This is Amazon.

[Kara Swisher]

Amazon? That's just Amazon. All right, we're gonna move on. We're mad as hell and we're not gonna take it anymore. That's what I said.

[Scott Galloway]

Behind the music. I just need a heroin habit. I wanna hook up with a former student.

[Kara Swisher]

I'm gonna autobiography and see what unread from it. All right, Scott, one more quick break. We'll be back for Win. Hello, Daisy?

[Scott Galloway]

Speaking.

[Kara Swisher]

Hello, Daisy. This is Phoebe Judge from the irs. Oh, bless, that does sound serious. I wouldn't want to end up in any sort of trouble. This September on Criminal, We've been thinking a lot about scams. Over the next couple of weeks, we're releasing episodes about a surprising way to stop scammers. The people you didn't know were on the other end of the line. And we have a special bonus episode on Criminal plus with tips to protect yourself. Listen to Criminal wherever you get your podcasts and sign up for criminal [e-mail] More and more students are going to college in the south.

[Scott Galloway]

The numbers of kids from the north heading south has increased, I think, 88% over about a decade.

[Kara Swisher]

What's behind, behind the shift? Maybe it's football.

[Scott Galloway]

People look at it as a sport, and it is. But it's a huge commercial for the university. Who doesn't want to go to a school where everybody's screaming and yelling and full of school spirit?

[Kara Swisher]

Maybe it's Greek life.

[Scott Galloway]

The Southern schools have become sort of.

[Kara Swisher]

Like the Olympics of sorority rush. Or maybe it's something else entirely.

[Scott Galloway]

They're significantly cheaper than private schools, even when you figure in merit aid.

[Kara Swisher]

Find out why America is shifting south on the latest episode of Explain It To Me, New episodes Sundays, wherever you get your podcasts.

[Scott Galloway]

What if the lights you already own could suddenly detect when you're nearby and turn themselves on? What if your robot vacation could hop on the back of another robot and crawl up the stairs to vacuum your entire house? This week on the Vergecast, we talk about the wildest new tech at the IFA trade show. Plus we have a great interview with Adobe's Mark Lavoie, a pioneer in computational photography, about where smartphone cameras go next. That's this week on the Vergecast.

[Kara Swisher]

Okay, Scott, I guess I'll start with wins and fails. I think. Think, gosh, the fail. You gotta read this during the New York Times about JP Morgan enabling the crimes of Jeffrey Epstein. It's an investigation. It's astonishing how much they were warned about all this money. They ignored red flags, suspicious activity. Executives were concerned, and they continued to let Jeffrey Epstein use their bank to do his. And they kind of knew it. They kind of knew it. And so I just think that that kind of enabling. I'm sort of in an enabling point of view right now, especially those tech assholes sucking Trump's dick, as you say. And my win is E. Jean Carroll's appeals court upheld her $83 million judgment against Trump. She'll probably get the 5. The 83 million is a different story. But they're gonna ask to go to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court has been very Trumpy lately. It just allowed ICE to make indiscriminate stops in la, temporarily at least, upturning another federal judge's order not to do that. So it's gotta go to. They're gonna ask the second I was talking to the lawyer for Eugene Carroll, Roberta Kaplan, and she said they'll ask this entire Second Circuit to reconsider. And then what? They'll ask the Supreme Court to decide this. I think he'll probably have to Pay at least part of the money to her and she deserves it. And I think that's great. I hope he has to pay at least someone for his behavior at some point. And then the last very quick things. I don't. Scott, there's actually also another great story in the New York Times about how your zodiac sign is 2000 years out of date. Do you know that I'm not a Sagittarius? Let me tell you what I am. It's another thing called a. There's an Earth wobble that our worth has moved and the zodiac signs are very out of date. And I have to put your birthday. Will you say your birthday publicly? I think you know, right.

[Scott Galloway]

It's November 3rd.

[Kara Swisher]

Okay, I'll look it up. Well. Oh, okay. So mine is now this thing called. Hold on. Ophiuchus. I'm an ophiuchus. It's the 13th constellation. Ophiuchus means serpent bearer in ancient Greece. That's me. So I'm not Sagittarius. I'm Ophiuchus, which is the 13th constellation. They just decided to do 12 because of the month. All right, I'm going to put yours in while you tell yours and I'll tell you what your actual zodiac sign is.

[Scott Galloway]

I actually have two wins and I'm hoping, hoping our team can pull together a mashup. But I thought the senators at the. I think it was the Senate Finance Committee were RFK Finance testified. People are very cynical about our elected officials. I think Senators Cassidy, Warren Cantwell, Bennett, Warner, Sanders. I thought they were outstanding and they were not taking prisoners. This is a serious issue and we elect these people to prevent a tragedy that commons and think long term and there's nothing that can better prevent a tragedy that commons and is more long term than vaccines. And these guys, in my view, they just brought it. I thought they were outstanding and also.

[Kara Swisher]

They did their job.

[Scott Galloway]

It was clear that Senate offices continue to attract incredibly impressive staff and aides. Because these guys came, came ready to play. Their facts were on point, they had charts. I mean, it's just, it's the, you know, the team of the best players wins. I thought there were really talented people behind the scenes pulling together this data for our outstanding elected leaders. So that was my win. My other win was. I was thinking about. It's about to be. What is it? The 24 year anniversary of September 11th. And I just want to reflect on that for a minute. Minute I was in New York when it happened and my ex called me. We had split up About a year before, but we were still good friends. She called me and said, can you come over? And I said, sure. She said, the World Trade Center's on fire. And we went over and it was on fire. She had a huge deck overlooking the World Trade center about a mile north of it. And then we saw a second plane disappear behind the second tower and come out the other end. And right then we knew it was a terrorist attack. And the flood of people coming up 6th Avenue. And I remember the radio, they come over the radio and said, There's 23 planes that are unaccounted for. I remember thinking, like, am I in a building that's too tall? Should I get down to the ground? And for the next several days, it was the quietest Manhattan has ever been. No honking. Occasionally you'd see someone on the street on the cell phone, crying. But other than that, no one was talking. No one was saying anything. It was very strange. It was very. It was like we were out. And appropriately, it was as if the city was in mourning. The thing that really struck me, and I will remember for long time, and serves as sort of marks the event was I went to Union Square to that memorial, and there was this tiny couple. They must have been like 4 foot 10, in very cheap clothing, Ukrainian. They were passing out flyers similar to the flyers you get when someone has lost their dog. And it was a picture of this, you know, of course, this beautiful young man who was a waiter at the windows of the world, and they thought they might find him. They were out walking around trying to find their son. Right? Very upsetting. And then the reason I bring it up as a win is that it really did show that our reach is far and our memory is long. If you think about the hunt for Osama bin Laden, it started in the 90s with criminal charges, and we had some early setbacks, including bin Laden's escape from tora Bora in 2001. And then with some key intelligence breakthroughs and some intelligence officers that would not give up, we attracted to. We tracked a courier to Abbottabad, and then it culminated in this incredible SEAL raid in May of 2011, which ended in bin Laden's death. And in addition, this left a treasure trove of intelligence files and spurred critical retrospection on foreign and domestic intelligence operations. And I just. I take huge pride in the. In our security apparatus, our Defense Department, our incredible special ops. I love the idea that the last thought that ran through this guy's head before he put a bullet in his eyes is that we had found him. And it was also, I would argue, the last time America really felt like it was unified. And it was just such an incredible demonstration of persistence, resilience, our intelligence apparatus, our bravery. And I love, my favorite visual memorial in history is each year they light up two beams into the sky right where the Twin Towers were. But there were just so many people who came together to, I would like to think, give some semblance of closure to the people who lost people and to demonstrate that America again, our reach is far and our memory is long. But I just wanted to comment on the 24 year anniversary of September 11th for if you were in New York, it really stands out as a big moment.

[Kara Swisher]

Do you know where Amanda was? Underneath the towers? She was in a subway going down there.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh really?

[Kara Swisher]

Did she know what was going on? The way stopped? No, the subway stopped and filled with smoke. She thought she was gonna die and didn't know what. Nobody knew. And they managed to get them out and get up in the street and far enough away that it didn't before it fell and stuff like that. So one of them, one of the.

[Scott Galloway]

Strange things about 911 is terrifying. I'm sure they had that hospital over in the meatpacking district and they fired it up and said get ready. And the thing was you either died or you got off scot free. There were actually very few injuries.

[Kara Swisher]

Yep.

[Scott Galloway]

But you know, we lost, we lost something like 350 firefighters lost about 3,000.

[Kara Swisher]

People in the war and continued to from the cleanup.

[Scott Galloway]

And another 4,500 people have died from. Yeah, cleanup, yeah, from, from 911 related illnesses.

[Kara Swisher]

Right. And who knows who was down there who would actually, you know, anyway.

[Scott Galloway]

But my, my emotionally manipulative moment is I, if you really want to like feel like emotional, go listen to the calls from the people on the planes who knew that that was it. All of them. None of them called to say, take care of my affairs or there's money in the banana stand, buy some stock or I, I never told you how much I'm pissed off. They all said the same thing. I'm just calling to say I love you.

[Kara Swisher]

I love you.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, really gripping. Really gripping. Anyways, good one. Scott Galloway, our fine public servants, our elected senators, I thought did an outstanding job of that hearing. And it has been 24 years that unfortunately, because of tragedy, I felt like we were a nation. But I think that the nation really did pull together and demonstrate a great deal of excellence post 9 11.

[Kara Swisher]

And let's guess who was the one person who told lies about it and said he was there and said fake things about people of descent from Muslims and he's the President of the United States. I'm not gonna.

[Scott Galloway]

But anyway, this is when he said.

[Kara Swisher]

They'Re celebrating New Jersey and also that he was down there. All this stuff. Anyway, we've gotta finish up. But just so you know, Scott, you're a Libra, not a Scorpio.

[Scott Galloway]

Really? I like being a Scorpio. It means I'm an asshole, but I'm interesting.

[Kara Swisher]

You're now a Libra. So just remember you're a Libra, my friend. You go look, I'll send you the link. You're a little.

[Scott Galloway]

Sorry.

[Kara Swisher]

You're gonna have to rethink your whole life. Anyway, I'm an. I can't even pronounce it. I'm the 13th.

[Scott Galloway]

I think I'm a sweater made from the hide of that.

[Kara Swisher]

Anyway, anyway, we want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business, tech or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com pivot to submit a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT. Elsewhere in the Karen Scott universe this week I spoke with historian, New Yorker staff writer and Harvard University professor Jill Lepore about her new book, we the People. It's a giant book about the history of the Constitution. Let's listen to a clip. I think Trump and Trumpism are also a product of a world where the Constitution became unamendable. I mean, after the ERA, the amendment that Americans most seriously considered in the 70s and 80s was the balanced budget amendment, which had like ERA, about 80% popular approval, like say around 1979 or so. There's just a lot of people were really worried about federal government spending. So that essentially constitutional frustration of a large segment of the American public. I think Trump tapped into that. Yes, the unamendable Constitution. We had some good ones, but not now. Okay, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot and be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back on Friday. Scott, read us out.

[Scott Galloway]

Today's show is produced by Lara Naimon, Zoe Marcus, Taylor Griffin and Kate Gallagher. Ernie and Jetot engineered this episode. Jim Mackle edited the video. Thanks also to Drew Bros, Ms. Avero and Dan Shalon, Nishat Karaz, Vox Medium's executive producer podcast. Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the magazine nymag.com pod we'll be back later this week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. Kara, have a great rest of the week.